May 10, 2025 • 28 mins
Joe Wolverton takes us on a remarkable journey through the forgotten intellectual foundations of America's founding in this compelling conversation about his book "The Founder's Recipe." As a constitutional attorney and scholar for the John Birch Society, Wolverton shares the fascinating personal story that led to his discovery of 37 critical thinkers who profoundly shaped the minds of Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and their contemporaries.
The genius of Wolverton's approach lies in his metaphor: just as his grandmother's banana pudding required specific ingredients to achieve its remarkable flavor, the founding generation's exceptional character and courage emerged from a specific intellectual diet now largely abandoned. When we wonder why we don't see leaders of similar caliber today, Wolverton suggests we've been "substituting salt for sugar in our cookie recipe" - fundamentally altering the educational foundation that once produced such remarkable individuals.
What makes this conversation truly eye-opening are the specific examples Wolverton provides. Thomas Jefferson reading Roman history in Latin at age nine. A fourteen-year-old Jefferson writing in his diary that it was time to "put away childish things" and prepare for important work he felt God had for him. These anecdotes stand in stark contrast to our current educational outcomes and cultural expectations. Most surprising to many listeners will be Wolverton's revelation that the Apostle Paul was the figure most frequently quoted by the founding fathers - underscoring how deeply biblical thinking informed their understanding of liberty.
The Founder's Recipe isn't just historical recovery - it's a practical path forward. Wolverton describes teaching these materials to students who became so passionate they voluntarily continued classes through summer break. His conviction is simple yet profound: "If we read what they read, then we're liable to do what they did - throw off the chains of tyranny and protect our liberty for posterity."
Join Wolverton's free webinar on May 15th at 8:00 PM Eastern to learn more about these forgotten influences, and consider reading The Founder's Recipe to recover the intellectual foundation that might just help us reclaim the revolutionary spirit of liberty our founders intended.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:23):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctors, rusty,
dusty, scrapbait.
Well, I'm delighted today tohave as my guest Joe Wolverton,
who has been with us previously.
He's online today, Joe, welcometo More Than Medicine.
Joe Wolverton (00:45):
Well, thank you, doctor.
I appreciate you having me onagain.
It's been a while.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:48):
It has been, and I'm going to ask you to
reintroduce yourself to mylisteners.
Tell them a little bit aboutyourself and your family and
what you do.
Who's your mama, who's yourdaddy, and are they rich like me
?
You know how that song used togo.
Joe Wolverton (01:04):
Well, I'm from Memphis, tennessee, where I
still live.
Well, I live out in the countrynear Memphis now, but family
from here for a long way back.
I was a constitutional attorneyfocusing on Fourth Amendment
issues, helping people sue thegovernment when the government
(01:26):
illegally and unconstitutionallysearched and seized their
property.
And then I now work for theJohn Birch Society.
I am their constitutional lawscholar, which means anything
that comes out from the JohnBirch Society regarding the
Constitution it goes through meto make sure it's accurate, and
(01:47):
so that's an important job to me.
I took it as a great honor thatthey hired me on to do that.
I was the first one they hiredto do that in their long, rich
history, so I was very humbledand grateful for that, and
they've also.
We've had a change inleadership past six months or so
and they asked me to takecharge of the publishing arm of
(02:09):
the John Birch Society, which isknown as Western Islands, the
John Birch Society helpingpeople, helping educate people,
because ultimately that's thegoal of the John Birch Society
is less government, moreresponsibility and, with God's
(02:32):
help, a better world.
Dr.Robert Jackson (02:34):
Education is our greatest strategy and truth
is our only weapon.
Joe Wolverton (02:39):
That's right, and so making sure that everything
that we put out is true.
Everything that we put out, youknow, obviously glorifies our
father, and everything that weput out helps people come to
value liberty the way ourfathers valued it and to be able
(03:00):
to give an answer to anyone whoasks why we care so much about
the Constitution and aboutliberty.
And that's what they've hiredme to do and I'm grateful to be
doing it and that's my full-timejob, although, as an attorney,
they occasionally, you know,want me to look over contracts
(03:20):
and that sort of thing.
They've asked me to do thatjust to their previous guy is
getting up and has an age andhas retired, and so they've
asked me to do that.
But typically, day in, day out,it's mostly making sure our
books that we publish aresquared away and say the right
things and in the right way, andmaking sure that the things we
(03:42):
talk about regarding theConstitution are accurate and
are inspiring, and that sort ofthing.
Dr.Robert Jackson (03:51):
Let me say that's an important job and it's
been very valuable to mebecause probably 43 years now
I've been reading the literatureof the John Birch Society and
reading their Every Other Weekmagazine.
And people ask me all the timesay, dr Jackson, how do you know
all this stuff?
And I immediately say to themthat I read the New American,
(04:13):
which used to be the Review ofthe News way back when I first
started, and that's how I stayconstitutionally grounded and
that's how I know the truthabout the issues that are going
on in our world.
And I tell them immediately youshould be reading the New
American and you should bereading the books produced by
the John Birch Society.
(04:34):
That's how you will know thetruth of what's going on in our
world today.
And I appreciate what you doand what the John Burke Society
does to keep folks like usaccurately informed.
So that's my little plug forwhat you guys do.
Joe Wolverton (04:51):
Well, we could use the plugs.
It's interesting that today,some, you know, more than 60
years after we were formedpeople, especially young people,
we have found quite a growthamong the uh younger, uh males.
They seem to be turning towarduh the constitution and toward
(05:12):
uh conservatism more, and wefound quite a quite an audience,
quite a new audience there, andwe're we're enthused by that,
encouraged by that and uh.
So we've, you know, we'vegotten in the habit of really
taking advantage of social media, for example, trying to find
them where they are and sharethese things with them, and
(05:33):
we've, you know, planted a lotof or I guess you'd say poured a
lot of old wine in new bottles,and we're very happy about that
.
Dr.Robert Jackson (05:41):
Well, that's what you have to do, because,
I'll tell you, most folks don'tread a book anymore.
They look at social media, andthey get their information in
small snippets, and so you haveto give it to them in those new
bottles nowadays.
All right, well, let's turn toour subject for the day, which
is the Founder's Recipe, and Iwas intrigued by that title, and
(06:04):
I'd love for you to talk to usabout that today.
So I'm going to turn it over toyou and I ask my listeners to
give you their kind attention.
Joe Wolverton (06:13):
Thank you, doctor , I appreciate that.
Well, yeah, the Founder'sRecipe, that's kind of.
You know, I've written I don'tknow five books or so, but the
Founder's Recipe is the one thatreally is my favorite and
really the one that I put myheart and soul into.
It's basically what it is.
I don't know if we've talkedabout it before, but I was the
first person on either side ofmy family to go to college and
(06:37):
you know so I didn't really havea.
I wasn't really prepared forwhat happens when you go to
college and I was a good studentin high school but I found it
all very easy.
So, anyway, when I went tocollege and I found myself a
short dog and tall cotton, Iasked when I told one of my
professors, I told him I said Ireally appreciate what you're
(06:58):
teaching and everything I said,but I just I have to drop out
because I'm just not up to thelevel of these.
You have my classmates.
They know more than I do and,for example, I told him I said,
you know, I've never even heardof the Federalist Papers and my
major was political science,with an emphasis on the founding
of the republic, and so I wasreally, you know, at a
(07:22):
disadvantage to not know at alleven what the Federalist Papers
were.
And so this professor, dr DickVetterly, who was also a member
of the John Birch Society Ididn't know that then but he
told me well, you're not dumb,you're just ignorant.
And he's like, we can overcomeignorance if you want to put the
(07:42):
work into it.
And I told him I did, and so hehanded me a copy of the
Federalist Papers and he saidtake the index, and you know
this is the years way before theInternet.
And he said take the index hereand go to the library and look
up everything in the index thatyou don't know what they're
talking about.
If it's an entry in the indexthat's unfamiliar to you, write
it down and then go find outwhat that thing is.
(08:04):
Go look it up, find out what itis.
Long story short, I started tomake this list of names that the
Founding Fathers in theirwritings, because once the
Federalist Papers, if itmentions somebody, then I go and
read about it and then I go andtry to find where the Founding
Fathers mentioned them.
Like I say, back then it wasn'tthat easy because there was no
(08:25):
Internet.
I had to go to the section ofthe library that had, you know,
the multi-volume collection ofJames Madison's writings, or
Benjamin Franklin, or ThomasJefferson.
So eventually it was aremarkable thing, and I do
believe it was, you know,obviously the Lord leading me to
this, that's right.
Dr.Robert Jackson (08:41):
Providential, yes sir, yes sir, you know.
Obviously the Lord leading meto this, that's right
providential, yes, sir.
Joe Wolverton (08:44):
And so I started to find these names that kept
being repeated over and over andover, and I went and took them
to my professor.
Lo and behold, there wereseveral of these names that he
had never even heard of, whichwas surprising.
He called another professor inand I shared with him, and
anyway, this became this list of, of these men that were often
(09:07):
regularly, repeatedly quoted bythe founding fathers, who most
people, including professors ofAmerican history and and
political science, had neverheard of these names before.
But they were men that were,you know, immeasurably
influential on our foundingfathers.
(09:28):
And so I the reason it's calledFounders Recipe, by the way, is
when I was little, my nannywould make my mom's mom, my
grandma on my mom's side, wouldmake this banana pudding, and my
dad could eat a whole you knownine by 12 pan full of it, and
we'd go see her.
(09:48):
And so one day I asked my dad.
I said how come you don't evereat banana pudding, except when
we go to nanny's house?
And he's like, cause she makesit better than anybody ever did,
and I said, well.
I said, well, mom can make it,he's like, your mom's a great
cook, he's like, but she can'tmake it the pudding like your
nanny does.
And so it came to my mind.
I thought well, even when I waslittle I don't know, I was
(10:11):
about eight years old, I guesswhen this happened I said, well,
if mom had the recipe, shecould do it.
And so when I was putting thistogether, it came into my head
that these men that the FoundingFathers were quoting, they were
like the ingredients that wentinto creating a James Madison or
a Thomas Jefferson or a GeorgeWashington.
And so it's like the problemthat we have in America and
(10:33):
we've had this problem for over100 years now is we have been
substituting salt for sugar inour cookie recipe and wondering
why the cookies taste so bad yes, that's right we don't, we
don't have, we wonder why therehasn't been a generation like
the founding generation, but wedon't do the things they did to
(10:53):
educate themselves.
and so my whole point was I wantto bring these 37 men, I want
to bring them to the peopleagain and I want I believe I
really do believe, and theproof's been in the pudding is
that if we read what they read,then we're liable to do what
they did, which is throw off thechains of tyranny and protect
(11:17):
our liberty for posterity, asthey expected us to do.
And so in this book, theFounder's Recipe, you find, so
to speak, the 37 ingredientsthat went into making the
education of our foundingfathers.
Most of these names arecompletely unknown to even, like
I say, to even professors ofAmerican history today.
(11:38):
And I just go through one,through 37, and I share in the
book.
I tried to make it.
You know, people want somethingattractive.
They're more likely, you know,they say you can't judge a book
by its cover.
But I found that to be untrue.
People like books that looknice.
And so I tried to make the booklook attractive and it's in,
(12:00):
you know, full color andeverything, kind of a coffee
table book.
Look to it and anyway, and sharea little biography of each one
of the men that were soinfluential, a list of the books
.
They wrote, a quotation thatthe founding fathers repeated
from that person, and then Ishare selection from the
(12:23):
writings of that person.
And, you know, you come to findout that there were, you know,
certain groups that they, youknow the Greeks, the ancient
Greeks, the ancient Romans, theBible and the Europeans.
Those were the groups that wentinto making our founding
(12:43):
fathers who they are.
That's the recipe, and so Ijust share selections from their
writings and I share a littlesection about where you can find
them referred to in thewritings of our fathers, our
founding fathers.
And, yeah, so we go throughthat.
And I'm telling you, Doctor,it's been a miracle in my life,
this Founders Recipe.
(13:03):
It's one of those things whenGod deals in a certain way with
me.
I recognize his hand veryquickly because it's as if I
can't remember how it allstarted, you know, like when it
became a book, how I you knowall of these things just so
quickly came together, came abook, how I, you know all of
(13:24):
these things just so quicklycame together.
And instantly when I started toteach this subject.
I was asked to teach it in a ata university there in Arizona,
and then at a high school aswell, and I began teaching the
subject and these kids just getfired up.
I mean because this because thisis stuff that no one, no one
(13:44):
today, has read.
We're talking and I do thechallenge I do it in my classes
that I teach on this, and then Igive webinars.
I'm giving one at the end of,or, I guess, the middle of next
month.
I'm giving a webinar.
I'll share with you the link.
I'll send you the link and youcan share it with people if you
want to it's free a free webinarand uh, anyway, I make the
(14:04):
challenge when I teach thefounders.
I make the challenge and I saytake, take these names and see
if your local american historyprofessor, if any of them,
recognize more than more thanyou know eight names off that
list, I'd be shocked.
And if they do recognize it,can they tell you anything?
(14:26):
This person said anything, thisperson wrote?
And the answer is going to beno.
And you know there's so manyexamples, doctor.
I mean, it just shocks mebecause when you read these
things that these people wroteand that the founding fathers
quoted so often and that are socompletely unknown to us today,
(14:47):
it really does fire you up.
It's one of these things thatpeople are like.
Why?
Because we just passed theanniversary of the Battle of
Lexington and Concord, that'sright.
And people always ask, well,what made them start shooting?
People always ask, well, whatmade them start shooting?
Well, when you read the thingsthat they read and realize how
(15:10):
important these things were,these things all teach I mean,
we're talking ancient Greeks,all the way through the 1750s
that these men read they allteach the same thing that your
liberty is a gift from God, thatyou have an obligation to
protect that liberty, that,since it is a gift from God,
only God can take that from youand he doesn't take that from
(15:32):
you.
Therefore, any man who tries totake that from you is putting
himself above God, and you areunder a sacred obligation to
have no gods before the real God.
Therefore, if a man exaltshimself to a position of taking
from you what God himself wouldnot take from you, then you must
(15:54):
resist that and if necessary,you must resist it with force of
arms.
The preferred way is to try andconvince this person that it
shouldn't be done.
But when you've tried and tried, as our fathers did for over a
decade, tried to convince thegovernment of England that they
were doing wrong, well,eventually, when that other side
(16:16):
decides that they're going toenforce their will upon you
tyrannically, at the point of agun.
Well then, you are as ourfathers believed.
You have an obligation, a dutyas a Christian to manfully
resist such efforts to depriveyou of your life, your liberty
and your property.
And so they went forth, that'swhat you know, those 50, well,
(16:41):
it was 49 dairy farmers and onegood preacher that stood out
there at the pre-dawn hours onApril 19, 1775 and faced off
against one of the world'smightiest and most professional
and well-trained armies.
Dr.Robert Jackson (16:55):
That's right, but they did it, that's exactly
right.
Joe Wolverton (16:57):
And this is the thing.
When you read this Founder'sRecipe and you read these things
that the Founding Fathers read,you come to understand that the
big problem why we don't havethat generation today is because
we don't understand liberty theway they understood it to not
having a fullness of liberty.
(17:19):
And we've not been taught thetruth for over 100 years in
school that the Constitution ismisinterpreted, misrepresented
and none of it Since the federalgovernment took control of the
management of curriculum ofpublic school.
Dr.Robert Jackson (17:38):
None of us have been taught the truth.
There's been a terriblerewriting of history.
Joe Wolverton (17:41):
Oh, absolutely.
And none of us have been taughtthe truth.
And when you, I'm telling youit changed my life the moment I
first saw a teenager get chokedup, reading these things that
our fathers read and thengetting fired up and saying why
aren't we doing anything?
I mean, you had these kids,honestly doctor, the first time
(18:02):
they.
They came to me at the end ofthe school year and asked if we
could continue class through thesummer.
Oh, my goodness, and I mean I'dnever done that in school, I
boy.
I couldn't wait for summer tostart, and so these kids would
come by, come to my house everyweek and we'd still have the
class.
Dr.Robert Jackson (18:21):
Oh, my goodness, and we would keep
reading these things.
You've got to be kidding me.
Joe Wolverton (18:25):
I'm not kidding you at all.
They came dutifully every weekDuring the summer we continued
having class.
And to the point where LibertyFund is a publisher, a book
publisher that publishes thebooks of a lot of these guys and
just a small operation inindiana, and to the point where
(18:46):
these kids were buying thesebooks so much.
These guys were like we want aliberty phone, like you know, we
want to show gratitude to you.
They sent me a copy of all thebooks they published for free
(19:15):
how about that?
And help move the needle backtoward individual liberty and
away from authoritarianism.
It's reading the words that ourfounders read, because you just
don't understand it, becausewe've never been taught it and
doctored.
There's not been ever a singleperson, I've never encountered a
(19:37):
single person that reads thesethings and doesn't have their
mind just blown by the fact thatyou instantly understand why
the government and the deepstate, so to speak, why they
have kept us from reading thesethings for so many years now.
Because, if you can, youimagine if you've got a
(19:58):
seven-year-old like we've gotyou know now.
All our founding fathers werehomeschooled until they got you
know up age close enough to goto, if they were going to go to
college, which most of themdidn't.
But if you went to college, youknow if you're going to be a
lawyer, a doctor or a preacher.
You went to college.
And so at that age 16, you knowaround there, 15, if their
(20:21):
parents had means they wouldprovide a tutor to prepare them
to go to college.
But for the most part they werehomeschooled.
And you've got Thomas Jeffersonand we're fortunate to have the
journals and they called themcommonplace books of most of our
founding fathers, most of ourfounding fathers.
(20:43):
And you notice that at eight,nine years old, they're reading
the history of Rome, the historyof Greece, the Bible.
Every one of them testify abouthow, every night, their father
would bring all the kidstogether and every night,
religiously, literallyreligiously, would read an hour
from the Bible to his family.
(21:04):
And that makes a differencewhen you're, from cradle to
grave, being taught these things.
They stick with you.
Dr.Robert Jackson (21:12):
That's right.
Let me tell you a story.
I teach third graders in Sundayschool, okay, and my third
graders most of them cannot readyet right and I and I have them
read from the bible on sundaymornings, and a good two-thirds
of my class cannot read thebible.
(21:33):
They just can't.
They're not capable yet, andwell you see, and it's it's the
vast difference now from then.
Joe Wolverton (21:42):
Oh yeah, but I'll tell you what they do.
Dr.Robert Jackson (21:46):
When I ask them what they do with their
time, they play video games.
They all play video gamesendlessly.
Oh, that's so neat and Ichallenge them to read the Bible
and they look at me like Ican't do that.
That it's like physically I'mnot capable to do that.
Joe Wolverton (22:03):
Once.
It's that Isaiah that says Icannot read a sealed book, you
know, and the book is sealedbecause of ignorance and that's
just a shame and it's really mytestimony that that's going to
come down on the head of parentswho have failed to educate and
prepare their children the waythey ought to.
But the thing is, when you readthese things and you've got a,
(22:26):
you know the journals of a, anine-year-old, james madison,
who's making notes in latin, youknow.
And so we've got nine-year-olds, like you say, who can't read.
And our founding fathers werereading the history of rome in
latin at nine years old.
Yes, and you've got, uh, thomasjefferson.
I love one of his diaries thatwe have.
He was 14 years old and hewrites that it's time for him to
(22:49):
quit being a boy and become aman and to put away childish
things and to quit playing cardsand quit going to games with
his friends and to settle downand do what God has for him to
do.
He said I feel like God has animportant work for me to do and
it's time to grow up.
He was 14.
Yes, you know, today we have40-year-olds who buy video games
(23:11):
and sit around all nightplaying video games.
Dr.Robert Jackson (23:13):
I got patients.
That's all they do with theirlife and they're adults.
They're adult men, right.
Joe Wolverton (23:17):
And they play video games.
Their wives come in disgustedwith their husbands, do nothing
but play video games all thetime.
Yep, it's a shame, but I'mtelling you this, people, and
you know I I'm fixing to comeout.
You know I say fixing to.
It's going to be a little while, it'll be several months you
know that's a true southernismwhen you say fixing to oh well,
(23:40):
that's who I am.
I can.
I can't get away from that.
I don't want to get away fromit.
Yeah, I guess in about sixmonths we're going to come out
with the second edition of theFounder's Recipe, which is's in
full color and it's it's, youknow.
Uh, I don't know how I pay.
(24:06):
I think it's something like youknow, 200 pages, 300 pages, and
so we're gonna make it a littlesmaller.
Just do like the top 10influences.
Make it in, uh, you know,smaller, make it more affordable
, because I want to get it intothe hands of everybody and right
now it's printed through amazon, so you, they take their cut
and and, uh, you know.
(24:27):
so this webinar that's coming upand I'll send you the
information.
That's really important becauseat the webinar they will.
If you attend the webinar, youget a huge discount on getting
the book, and so that's a bigdeal and and uh, and this
webinar is free.
Dr.Robert Jackson (24:44):
All right?
Well, let's listen, we run outtime tell tell my patients, tell
my, my patients, I'm sorry.
Tell my listeners first of all,how they can get a hold of the
book and then, second, how theycan attend the webinar okay.
Joe Wolverton (24:55):
So, uh, if you go to, um, if you want to get the
book, you can go to amazon andjust put in my name, joe
wolverton.
Uh, and one of the books thereis the founder's recipe.
I will warn you, don't get thekindle version.
They've messed up somehow inthe kindle version, so, uh, get
the paperback version.
Um, so, and it, it goes on salepretty regularly through amazon
(25:19):
because as long as it breaksthrough the top 200 or whatever
they'll, they'll put a discounton it.
So it stays pretty regularly upthere and pretty good discount
through Amazon, because as longas it breaks through the top 200
or whatever, they'll put adiscount on it.
So it stays pretty regularly upthere and pretty good discount.
And so that's that.
Go to Amazon and just put myname, joe Wolverton, and the
founder's recipe will be one ofthe books offered.
(25:40):
And the webinar is coming up.
I will let me see here.
I don't know the exact date offthe top of my head.
Let me get you the exact datehere.
Uh, it is, it is may 15th ateight o'clock eastern.
And, uh, I can send you if youwant to.
(26:01):
I don't know if you have anemail list or what I can send
you a link to it that I don'tknow if you have an email list
or what.
I can send you a link to itthat people can sign up.
Dr.Robert Jackson (26:07):
Send me the link and we'll put it on our
website.
Joe Wolverton (26:10):
Sure, I'll send that to you, but you could also
just go to.
If you go to jbsorg and lookfor Freedom's Voices, freedom's
Voices, and you find that tab,the Freedom's Voices tab, then
you'll find me listed underthere and it'll have a list of
my upcoming presentations, andthat's one of them.
(26:38):
On May the 15th at 8 o'clockEastern, and they usually last
about an hour and I share someof the selections.
I share stories, you know, ourfounding fathers, how they were
influenced by these guys, and,like I say, we we're out of time
and but I'm never out of out ofwords to say about these guys.
So, yeah, if y'all want to comeby and get the book, and and
just, you know, I've, I've madeit as as accessible as I can
(26:58):
because, boy, we, we, you know,we really do have a lack of
knowledge and a lack ofunderstanding, but we don't have
to stay that way.
We are blessed, most of us,with a mind that is capable of
understanding.
We can read, and there's noteasy things, but nothing
worthwhile is easy.
(27:20):
That's right, and so you takethese words.
I'll tell you.
I'll just give you a littlesneak peek.
The person most often thenumber one, number one person on
the list is St Paul the apostle.
He is the most often quotedperson by the founding
generation.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:37):
Uh, I was going to ask you that question.
Who was most quoted?
So you answered my question.
Joe Wolverton (27:42):
Paul is the most quoted.
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is the Spirit of freedom
.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:47):
That's right.
How about that?
Wow, all right.
Well, you're listening to MoreThan Medicine, and my guest
today is Joe Wolverton, authorof the Founder's Recipe, and I
hope you'll get a copy of hisbook and I hope you'll attend
his webinar on May 15th.
Joe, thank you for being onMore Than Medicine.
It's been a delightfuldiscussion.
Joe Wolverton (28:08):
I hope you'll come back and be with us again
on another occasion, as often asyou'll have me, doctor, I sure
appreciate the opportunity totalk about these things.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:16):
All right, Thank you, sir.
Well, we'll be back again in aweek and until then, may the
Lord bless you.
Real good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:23):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctors, rusty,
dusty, scrapbait.
Well, I'm delighted today tohave as my guest Joe Wolverton,
who has been with us previously.
He's online today, Joe, welcometo More Than Medicine.
Joe Wolverton (00:45):
Well, thank you, doctor.
I appreciate you having me onagain.
It's been a while.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:48):
It has been, and I'm going to ask you to
reintroduce yourself to mylisteners.
Tell them a little bit aboutyourself and your family and
what you do.
Who's your mama, who's yourdaddy, and are they rich like me
?
You know how that song used togo.
Joe Wolverton (01:04):
Well, I'm from Memphis, tennessee, where I
still live.
Well, I live out in the countrynear Memphis now, but family
from here for a long way back.
I was a constitutional attorneyfocusing on Fourth Amendment
issues, helping people sue thegovernment when the government
(01:26):
illegally and unconstitutionallysearched and seized their
property.
And then I now work for theJohn Birch Society.
I am their constitutional lawscholar, which means anything
that comes out from the JohnBirch Society regarding the
Constitution it goes through meto make sure it's accurate, and
(01:47):
so that's an important job to me.
I took it as a great honor thatthey hired me on to do that.
I was the first one they hiredto do that in their long, rich
history, so I was very humbledand grateful for that, and
they've also.
We've had a change inleadership past six months or so
and they asked me to takecharge of the publishing arm of
(02:09):
the John Birch Society, which isknown as Western Islands, the
John Birch Society helpingpeople, helping educate people,
because ultimately that's thegoal of the John Birch Society
is less government, moreresponsibility and, with God's
(02:32):
help, a better world.
Dr.Robert Jackson (02:34):
Education is our greatest strategy and truth
is our only weapon.
Joe Wolverton (02:39):
That's right, and so making sure that everything
that we put out is true.
Everything that we put out, youknow, obviously glorifies our
father, and everything that weput out helps people come to
value liberty the way ourfathers valued it and to be able
(03:00):
to give an answer to anyone whoasks why we care so much about
the Constitution and aboutliberty.
And that's what they've hiredme to do and I'm grateful to be
doing it and that's my full-timejob, although, as an attorney,
they occasionally, you know,want me to look over contracts
(03:20):
and that sort of thing.
They've asked me to do thatjust to their previous guy is
getting up and has an age andhas retired, and so they've
asked me to do that.
But typically, day in, day out,it's mostly making sure our
books that we publish aresquared away and say the right
things and in the right way, andmaking sure that the things we
(03:42):
talk about regarding theConstitution are accurate and
are inspiring, and that sort ofthing.
Dr.Robert Jackson (03:51):
Let me say that's an important job and it's
been very valuable to mebecause probably 43 years now
I've been reading the literatureof the John Birch Society and
reading their Every Other Weekmagazine.
And people ask me all the timesay, dr Jackson, how do you know
all this stuff?
And I immediately say to themthat I read the New American,
(04:13):
which used to be the Review ofthe News way back when I first
started, and that's how I stayconstitutionally grounded and
that's how I know the truthabout the issues that are going
on in our world.
And I tell them immediately youshould be reading the New
American and you should bereading the books produced by
the John Birch Society.
(04:34):
That's how you will know thetruth of what's going on in our
world today.
And I appreciate what you doand what the John Burke Society
does to keep folks like usaccurately informed.
So that's my little plug forwhat you guys do.
Joe Wolverton (04:51):
Well, we could use the plugs.
It's interesting that today,some, you know, more than 60
years after we were formedpeople, especially young people,
we have found quite a growthamong the uh younger, uh males.
They seem to be turning towarduh the constitution and toward
(05:12):
uh conservatism more, and wefound quite a quite an audience,
quite a new audience there, andwe're we're enthused by that,
encouraged by that and uh.
So we've, you know, we'vegotten in the habit of really
taking advantage of social media, for example, trying to find
them where they are and sharethese things with them, and
(05:33):
we've, you know, planted a lotof or I guess you'd say poured a
lot of old wine in new bottles,and we're very happy about that
.
Dr.Robert Jackson (05:41):
Well, that's what you have to do, because,
I'll tell you, most folks don'tread a book anymore.
They look at social media, andthey get their information in
small snippets, and so you haveto give it to them in those new
bottles nowadays.
All right, well, let's turn toour subject for the day, which
is the Founder's Recipe, and Iwas intrigued by that title, and
(06:04):
I'd love for you to talk to usabout that today.
So I'm going to turn it over toyou and I ask my listeners to
give you their kind attention.
Joe Wolverton (06:13):
Thank you, doctor , I appreciate that.
Well, yeah, the Founder'sRecipe, that's kind of.
You know, I've written I don'tknow five books or so, but the
Founder's Recipe is the one thatreally is my favorite and
really the one that I put myheart and soul into.
It's basically what it is.
I don't know if we've talkedabout it before, but I was the
first person on either side ofmy family to go to college and
(06:37):
you know so I didn't really havea.
I wasn't really prepared forwhat happens when you go to
college and I was a good studentin high school but I found it
all very easy.
So, anyway, when I went tocollege and I found myself a
short dog and tall cotton, Iasked when I told one of my
professors, I told him I said Ireally appreciate what you're
(06:58):
teaching and everything I said,but I just I have to drop out
because I'm just not up to thelevel of these.
You have my classmates.
They know more than I do and,for example, I told him I said,
you know, I've never even heardof the Federalist Papers and my
major was political science,with an emphasis on the founding
of the republic, and so I wasreally, you know, at a
(07:22):
disadvantage to not know at alleven what the Federalist Papers
were.
And so this professor, dr DickVetterly, who was also a member
of the John Birch Society Ididn't know that then but he
told me well, you're not dumb,you're just ignorant.
And he's like, we can overcomeignorance if you want to put the
(07:42):
work into it.
And I told him I did, and so hehanded me a copy of the
Federalist Papers and he saidtake the index, and you know
this is the years way before theInternet.
And he said take the index hereand go to the library and look
up everything in the index thatyou don't know what they're
talking about.
If it's an entry in the indexthat's unfamiliar to you, write
it down and then go find outwhat that thing is.
(08:04):
Go look it up, find out what itis.
Long story short, I started tomake this list of names that the
Founding Fathers in theirwritings, because once the
Federalist Papers, if itmentions somebody, then I go and
read about it and then I go andtry to find where the Founding
Fathers mentioned them.
Like I say, back then it wasn'tthat easy because there was no
(08:25):
Internet.
I had to go to the section ofthe library that had, you know,
the multi-volume collection ofJames Madison's writings, or
Benjamin Franklin, or ThomasJefferson.
So eventually it was aremarkable thing, and I do
believe it was, you know,obviously the Lord leading me to
this, that's right.
Dr.Robert Jackson (08:41):
Providential, yes sir, yes sir, you know.
Obviously the Lord leading meto this, that's right
providential, yes, sir.
Joe Wolverton (08:44):
And so I started to find these names that kept
being repeated over and over andover, and I went and took them
to my professor.
Lo and behold, there wereseveral of these names that he
had never even heard of, whichwas surprising.
He called another professor inand I shared with him, and
anyway, this became this list of, of these men that were often
(09:07):
regularly, repeatedly quoted bythe founding fathers, who most
people, including professors ofAmerican history and and
political science, had neverheard of these names before.
But they were men that were,you know, immeasurably
influential on our foundingfathers.
(09:28):
And so I the reason it's calledFounders Recipe, by the way, is
when I was little, my nannywould make my mom's mom, my
grandma on my mom's side, wouldmake this banana pudding, and my
dad could eat a whole you knownine by 12 pan full of it, and
we'd go see her.
(09:48):
And so one day I asked my dad.
I said how come you don't evereat banana pudding, except when
we go to nanny's house?
And he's like, cause she makesit better than anybody ever did,
and I said, well.
I said, well, mom can make it,he's like, your mom's a great
cook, he's like, but she can'tmake it the pudding like your
nanny does.
And so it came to my mind.
I thought well, even when I waslittle I don't know, I was
(10:11):
about eight years old, I guesswhen this happened I said, well,
if mom had the recipe, shecould do it.
And so when I was putting thistogether, it came into my head
that these men that the FoundingFathers were quoting, they were
like the ingredients that wentinto creating a James Madison or
a Thomas Jefferson or a GeorgeWashington.
And so it's like the problemthat we have in America and
(10:33):
we've had this problem for over100 years now is we have been
substituting salt for sugar inour cookie recipe and wondering
why the cookies taste so bad yes, that's right we don't, we
don't have, we wonder why therehasn't been a generation like
the founding generation, but wedon't do the things they did to
(10:53):
educate themselves.
and so my whole point was I wantto bring these 37 men, I want
to bring them to the peopleagain and I want I believe I
really do believe, and theproof's been in the pudding is
that if we read what they read,then we're liable to do what
they did, which is throw off thechains of tyranny and protect
(11:17):
our liberty for posterity, asthey expected us to do.
And so in this book, theFounder's Recipe, you find, so
to speak, the 37 ingredientsthat went into making the
education of our foundingfathers.
Most of these names arecompletely unknown to even, like
I say, to even professors ofAmerican history today.
(11:38):
And I just go through one,through 37, and I share in the
book.
I tried to make it.
You know, people want somethingattractive.
They're more likely, you know,they say you can't judge a book
by its cover.
But I found that to be untrue.
People like books that looknice.
And so I tried to make the booklook attractive and it's in,
(12:00):
you know, full color andeverything, kind of a coffee
table book.
Look to it and anyway, and sharea little biography of each one
of the men that were soinfluential, a list of the books
.
They wrote, a quotation thatthe founding fathers repeated
from that person, and then Ishare selection from the
(12:23):
writings of that person.
And, you know, you come to findout that there were, you know,
certain groups that they, youknow the Greeks, the ancient
Greeks, the ancient Romans, theBible and the Europeans.
Those were the groups that wentinto making our founding
(12:43):
fathers who they are.
That's the recipe, and so Ijust share selections from their
writings and I share a littlesection about where you can find
them referred to in thewritings of our fathers, our
founding fathers.
And, yeah, so we go throughthat.
And I'm telling you, Doctor,it's been a miracle in my life,
this Founders Recipe.
(13:03):
It's one of those things whenGod deals in a certain way with
me.
I recognize his hand veryquickly because it's as if I
can't remember how it allstarted, you know, like when it
became a book, how I you knowall of these things just so
quickly came together, came abook, how I, you know all of
(13:24):
these things just so quicklycame together.
And instantly when I started toteach this subject.
I was asked to teach it in a ata university there in Arizona,
and then at a high school aswell, and I began teaching the
subject and these kids just getfired up.
I mean because this because thisis stuff that no one, no one
(13:44):
today, has read.
We're talking and I do thechallenge I do it in my classes
that I teach on this, and then Igive webinars.
I'm giving one at the end of,or, I guess, the middle of next
month.
I'm giving a webinar.
I'll share with you the link.
I'll send you the link and youcan share it with people if you
want to it's free a free webinarand uh, anyway, I make the
(14:04):
challenge when I teach thefounders.
I make the challenge and I saytake, take these names and see
if your local american historyprofessor, if any of them,
recognize more than more thanyou know eight names off that
list, I'd be shocked.
And if they do recognize it,can they tell you anything?
(14:26):
This person said anything, thisperson wrote?
And the answer is going to beno.
And you know there's so manyexamples, doctor.
I mean, it just shocks mebecause when you read these
things that these people wroteand that the founding fathers
quoted so often and that are socompletely unknown to us today,
(14:47):
it really does fire you up.
It's one of these things thatpeople are like.
Why?
Because we just passed theanniversary of the Battle of
Lexington and Concord, that'sright.
And people always ask, well,what made them start shooting?
People always ask, well, whatmade them start shooting?
Well, when you read the thingsthat they read and realize how
(15:10):
important these things were,these things all teach I mean,
we're talking ancient Greeks,all the way through the 1750s
that these men read they allteach the same thing that your
liberty is a gift from God, thatyou have an obligation to
protect that liberty, that,since it is a gift from God,
only God can take that from youand he doesn't take that from
(15:32):
you.
Therefore, any man who tries totake that from you is putting
himself above God, and you areunder a sacred obligation to
have no gods before the real God.
Therefore, if a man exaltshimself to a position of taking
from you what God himself wouldnot take from you, then you must
(15:54):
resist that and if necessary,you must resist it with force of
arms.
The preferred way is to try andconvince this person that it
shouldn't be done.
But when you've tried and tried, as our fathers did for over a
decade, tried to convince thegovernment of England that they
were doing wrong, well,eventually, when that other side
(16:16):
decides that they're going toenforce their will upon you
tyrannically, at the point of agun.
Well then, you are as ourfathers believed.
You have an obligation, a dutyas a Christian to manfully
resist such efforts to depriveyou of your life, your liberty
and your property.
And so they went forth, that'swhat you know, those 50, well,
(16:41):
it was 49 dairy farmers and onegood preacher that stood out
there at the pre-dawn hours onApril 19, 1775 and faced off
against one of the world'smightiest and most professional
and well-trained armies.
Dr.Robert Jackson (16:55):
That's right, but they did it, that's exactly
right.
Joe Wolverton (16:57):
And this is the thing.
When you read this Founder'sRecipe and you read these things
that the Founding Fathers read,you come to understand that the
big problem why we don't havethat generation today is because
we don't understand liberty theway they understood it to not
having a fullness of liberty.
(17:19):
And we've not been taught thetruth for over 100 years in
school that the Constitution ismisinterpreted, misrepresented
and none of it Since the federalgovernment took control of the
management of curriculum ofpublic school.
Dr.Robert Jackson (17:38):
None of us have been taught the truth.
There's been a terriblerewriting of history.
Joe Wolverton (17:41):
Oh, absolutely.
And none of us have been taughtthe truth.
And when you, I'm telling youit changed my life the moment I
first saw a teenager get chokedup, reading these things that
our fathers read and thengetting fired up and saying why
aren't we doing anything?
I mean, you had these kids,honestly doctor, the first time
(18:02):
they.
They came to me at the end ofthe school year and asked if we
could continue class through thesummer.
Oh, my goodness, and I mean I'dnever done that in school, I
boy.
I couldn't wait for summer tostart, and so these kids would
come by, come to my house everyweek and we'd still have the
class.
Dr.Robert Jackson (18:21):
Oh, my goodness, and we would keep
reading these things.
You've got to be kidding me.
Joe Wolverton (18:25):
I'm not kidding you at all.
They came dutifully every weekDuring the summer we continued
having class.
And to the point where LibertyFund is a publisher, a book
publisher that publishes thebooks of a lot of these guys and
just a small operation inindiana, and to the point where
(18:46):
these kids were buying thesebooks so much.
These guys were like we want aliberty phone, like you know, we
want to show gratitude to you.
They sent me a copy of all thebooks they published for free
(19:15):
how about that?
And help move the needle backtoward individual liberty and
away from authoritarianism.
It's reading the words that ourfounders read, because you just
don't understand it, becausewe've never been taught it and
doctored.
There's not been ever a singleperson, I've never encountered a
(19:37):
single person that reads thesethings and doesn't have their
mind just blown by the fact thatyou instantly understand why
the government and the deepstate, so to speak, why they
have kept us from reading thesethings for so many years now.
Because, if you can, youimagine if you've got a
(19:58):
seven-year-old like we've gotyou know now.
All our founding fathers werehomeschooled until they got you
know up age close enough to goto, if they were going to go to
college, which most of themdidn't.
But if you went to college, youknow if you're going to be a
lawyer, a doctor or a preacher.
You went to college.
And so at that age 16, you knowaround there, 15, if their
(20:21):
parents had means they wouldprovide a tutor to prepare them
to go to college.
But for the most part they werehomeschooled.
And you've got Thomas Jeffersonand we're fortunate to have the
journals and they called themcommonplace books of most of our
founding fathers, most of ourfounding fathers.
(20:43):
And you notice that at eight,nine years old, they're reading
the history of Rome, the historyof Greece, the Bible.
Every one of them testify abouthow, every night, their father
would bring all the kidstogether and every night,
religiously, literallyreligiously, would read an hour
from the Bible to his family.
(21:04):
And that makes a differencewhen you're, from cradle to
grave, being taught these things.
They stick with you.
Dr.Robert Jackson (21:12):
That's right.
Let me tell you a story.
I teach third graders in Sundayschool, okay, and my third
graders most of them cannot readyet right and I and I have them
read from the bible on sundaymornings, and a good two-thirds
of my class cannot read thebible.
(21:33):
They just can't.
They're not capable yet, andwell you see, and it's it's the
vast difference now from then.
Joe Wolverton (21:42):
Oh yeah, but I'll tell you what they do.
Dr.Robert Jackson (21:46):
When I ask them what they do with their
time, they play video games.
They all play video gamesendlessly.
Oh, that's so neat and Ichallenge them to read the Bible
and they look at me like Ican't do that.
That it's like physically I'mnot capable to do that.
Joe Wolverton (22:03):
Once.
It's that Isaiah that says Icannot read a sealed book, you
know, and the book is sealedbecause of ignorance and that's
just a shame and it's really mytestimony that that's going to
come down on the head of parentswho have failed to educate and
prepare their children the waythey ought to.
But the thing is, when you readthese things and you've got a,
(22:26):
you know the journals of a, anine-year-old, james madison,
who's making notes in latin, youknow.
And so we've got nine-year-olds, like you say, who can't read.
And our founding fathers werereading the history of rome in
latin at nine years old.
Yes, and you've got, uh, thomasjefferson.
I love one of his diaries thatwe have.
He was 14 years old and hewrites that it's time for him to
(22:49):
quit being a boy and become aman and to put away childish
things and to quit playing cardsand quit going to games with
his friends and to settle downand do what God has for him to
do.
He said I feel like God has animportant work for me to do and
it's time to grow up.
He was 14.
Yes, you know, today we have40-year-olds who buy video games
(23:11):
and sit around all nightplaying video games.
Dr.Robert Jackson (23:13):
I got patients.
That's all they do with theirlife and they're adults.
They're adult men, right.
Joe Wolverton (23:17):
And they play video games.
Their wives come in disgustedwith their husbands, do nothing
but play video games all thetime.
Yep, it's a shame, but I'mtelling you this, people, and
you know I I'm fixing to comeout.
You know I say fixing to.
It's going to be a little while, it'll be several months you
know that's a true southernismwhen you say fixing to oh well,
(23:40):
that's who I am.
I can.
I can't get away from that.
I don't want to get away fromit.
Yeah, I guess in about sixmonths we're going to come out
with the second edition of theFounder's Recipe, which is's in
full color and it's it's, youknow.
Uh, I don't know how I pay.
(24:06):
I think it's something like youknow, 200 pages, 300 pages, and
so we're gonna make it a littlesmaller.
Just do like the top 10influences.
Make it in, uh, you know,smaller, make it more affordable
, because I want to get it intothe hands of everybody and right
now it's printed through amazon, so you, they take their cut
and and, uh, you know.
(24:27):
so this webinar that's coming upand I'll send you the
information.
That's really important becauseat the webinar they will.
If you attend the webinar, youget a huge discount on getting
the book, and so that's a bigdeal and and uh, and this
webinar is free.
Dr.Robert Jackson (24:44):
All right?
Well, let's listen, we run outtime tell tell my patients, tell
my, my patients, I'm sorry.
Tell my listeners first of all,how they can get a hold of the
book and then, second, how theycan attend the webinar okay.
Joe Wolverton (24:55):
So, uh, if you go to, um, if you want to get the
book, you can go to amazon andjust put in my name, joe
wolverton.
Uh, and one of the books thereis the founder's recipe.
I will warn you, don't get thekindle version.
They've messed up somehow inthe kindle version, so, uh, get
the paperback version.
Um, so, and it, it goes on salepretty regularly through amazon
(25:19):
because as long as it breaksthrough the top 200 or whatever
they'll, they'll put a discounton it.
So it stays pretty regularly upthere and pretty good discount
through Amazon, because as longas it breaks through the top 200
or whatever, they'll put adiscount on it.
So it stays pretty regularly upthere and pretty good discount.
And so that's that.
Go to Amazon and just put myname, joe Wolverton, and the
founder's recipe will be one ofthe books offered.
(25:40):
And the webinar is coming up.
I will let me see here.
I don't know the exact date offthe top of my head.
Let me get you the exact datehere.
Uh, it is, it is may 15th ateight o'clock eastern.
And, uh, I can send you if youwant to.
(26:01):
I don't know if you have anemail list or what I can send
you a link to it that I don'tknow if you have an email list
or what.
I can send you a link to itthat people can sign up.
Dr.Robert Jackson (26:07):
Send me the link and we'll put it on our
website.
Joe Wolverton (26:10):
Sure, I'll send that to you, but you could also
just go to.
If you go to jbsorg and lookfor Freedom's Voices, freedom's
Voices, and you find that tab,the Freedom's Voices tab, then
you'll find me listed underthere and it'll have a list of
my upcoming presentations, andthat's one of them.
(26:38):
On May the 15th at 8 o'clockEastern, and they usually last
about an hour and I share someof the selections.
I share stories, you know, ourfounding fathers, how they were
influenced by these guys, and,like I say, we we're out of time
and but I'm never out of out ofwords to say about these guys.
So, yeah, if y'all want to comeby and get the book, and and
just, you know, I've, I've madeit as as accessible as I can
(26:58):
because, boy, we, we, you know,we really do have a lack of
knowledge and a lack ofunderstanding, but we don't have
to stay that way.
We are blessed, most of us,with a mind that is capable of
understanding.
We can read, and there's noteasy things, but nothing
worthwhile is easy.
(27:20):
That's right, and so you takethese words.
I'll tell you.
I'll just give you a littlesneak peek.
The person most often thenumber one, number one person on
the list is St Paul the apostle.
He is the most often quotedperson by the founding
generation.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:37):
Uh, I was going to ask you that question.
Who was most quoted?
So you answered my question.
Joe Wolverton (27:42):
Paul is the most quoted.
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is the Spirit of freedom
.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:47):
That's right.
How about that?
Wow, all right.
Well, you're listening to MoreThan Medicine, and my guest
today is Joe Wolverton, authorof the Founder's Recipe, and I
hope you'll get a copy of hisbook and I hope you'll attend
his webinar on May 15th.
Joe, thank you for being onMore Than Medicine.
It's been a delightfuldiscussion.
Joe Wolverton (28:08):
I hope you'll come back and be with us again
on another occasion, as often asyou'll have me, doctor, I sure
appreciate the opportunity totalk about these things.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:16):
All right, Thank you, sir.
Well, we'll be back again in aweek and until then, may the
Lord bless you.
Real good.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
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