November 11, 2024 • 16 mins
In this episode, MGIC's Stephanie Budnik and Liz Keuler reveal key highlights from the fourth annual Loan Originators Survey by MGIC and Loan Officer Hub, including:
- How recent trends affect LOs' business activities
- How originators are tackling affordability challenges and helping borrowers who don't yet qualify for a mortgage
- Marketing and social media trends in the mortgage industry
- The most valuable referral sources for loan officers, including a popular referral source for top LOs
- Originators' goals for the future
Download your copy of the 2024 Loan Originators Survey report at loanofficerhub.com.
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Connects, an MGIC podcast. If you have questions, comments, or want to get involved, send an email to mortgageconnects@mgic.com.
Looking for even more expert insights? Check out our mortgage industry content portal, Mortgage Connects knowledge hub. Subscribe today so you don't miss out on the latest! Subscribe
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Budnik (00:04):
Welcome to Mortgage Connects, bringing you
the latest insights from topmortgage professionals around
the industry.
I'm your host, stephanieBunnick, and with me today we
have Liz K.
She is the editor of LoanOfficer Hub, which is a site
that's dedicated to bring toolsand insights to loan officers.
Liz, welcome Thanks for joiningus today.
Liz Keuler (00:21):
Thanks for having me .
I'm so happy to be here.
Stephanie Budnik (00:23):
I'm really excited to discuss the exclusive
insights from the latest loanoriginator survey conducted by
MGIC and Loan Officer Hub.
This is the fourth year that wehave surveyed loan officers
about their challenges,opportunities and their
activities, and the report isnow out on LoanOfficerHub.
com.
Liz Keuler (00:39):
That's true.
You can go and get your copy ofthe report today at Loan
Officer Hub.
Stephanie Budnik (00:45):
So, as we think about digging into this,
can you just set the scene, tellus a little bit more about the
survey in general, maybe whoparticipated and whatnot?
Liz Keuler (00:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, as you said, it's ourfourth year.
We did conduct the survey inJune, as we always do, which is
a little bit before the ratescame down, so that's something
to keep in mind.
We had about a thousandoriginators participate this
year, which is about the same aslast year, so a nice group,
mostly loan officers, a fewbranch managers, a few sales
(01:11):
managers.
Just kind of to give you anidea who these people are.
About a third of them aremortgage bankers, 22% work for
banks, 19% are brokers, 17%community banks and 8% credit
union.
64% of the whole group wereover age 50, which is a pretty
consistent with what we've seenin the past.
But we did hear from slightlymore loan officers with less
(01:33):
experience this year.
So you know we asked them howlong have you been in the
business?
And folks who have 15 or yearsexperience or less - we had 40%
in that group compared to 35%last year, so you can see
corresponding we had you know,still a slightly more tenured
group, but not quite as much aswe have had in years past, and
(01:54):
we did have a pretty broadspectrum of production numbers
for these folks.
20% of respondents said theydid 10 or less loans in 2023,
and 13 percent said they did 76or more loans last year, and
then we had a mix of tiers inbetween, so it is a really
varied group in terms of howmuch production they're doing.
Stephanie Budnik (02:16):
Yeah, it seems pretty diverse from the
organizations to the individuals, and so it's a good mix of you
know what's really going on inthe market, mm-hmm.
So, with this being the fourthyear, I know we do often ask
very similar questions from yearto year, but can you tell me,
were there any new questionsthis year?
Liz Keuler (02:33):
Sure, like you said, we do try to keep it consistent
so we can compare year to yearand have kind of a sense of how
trends are changing.
But we do ask a few newquestions to make sure we're on
top of changes in the market,new trends.
So this year we did include theNAR settlement as an option
under greatest challenges, likeuncertainty around what was
happening with the NARsettlement, because that was in
(02:54):
the news so much.
But we only found that 6% ofloan officers selected that as a
challenge.
So it might be something that'smore like in the news than
actually impacting loan officersas of yet.
We asked about technologythat's most critical to loan
officers' success.
It's not really surprising, butloan origination systems,
product pricing engines (03:13):
those are the most important to LOs.
The other thing I would saythat's been in the news for
every industry is AI.
So we did ask, "Do you use AIand how?
So 64% said they don't use itor they're not aware.
Maybe it's incorporated into asystem but they don't know.
26% said they do use it formarketing.
(03:35):
So that's like using chat GPTto create a marketing message
for you.
Write an email or social postand newer loan officers are more
likely to say that they use AIthan more tenured LOs.
So maybe it's that you knowthey might be a younger crowd,
or it might be that they haven'tfound their niche and they are
trying more new things, whereasmore tenured LOs kind of have
(03:56):
their set ways of how they'regoing about things.
But it'll be interesting to seeif that changes next year, as
AI continues to be, you know,part of the news.
Stephanie Budnik (04:03):
Yep and some of the things you know with.
Even with the NAR, thesupplement, that more happened
in August, right?
Liz Keuler (04:10):
So maybe people's results.
Yeah, I'm not sure what's goingto happen.
Stephanie Budnik (04:13):
So yeah, that's very interesting.
As we look back at the surveyand I had a chance to kind of
peek at that it seems clear thatoriginators continue to focus
on purchase markets and refisand with refis kind of coming in
and out of the market dependingon what it's doing and how
rates are.
One of the things that stillremains consistent, regardless
(04:34):
of that, is affordability andbeing a challenge for homebuyers
.
So what did some of the surveyresults say around that kind of
topic?
Liz Keuler (04:38):
Okay, yeah, you're totally right.
Affordability was the greatestchallenge this year for their
business.
And then, when we asked themabout challenges for borrowers,
they also ranked interest rates,mortgage payment, affordability
, down payments as greaterchallenges in 2024 than they did
in 2023, where inventory andbidding wars used to be a little
(05:01):
bit more of an issue inprevious years.
Now those are less of an issue.
So those are problems forborrowers that persist and
originators can't just wave amagic wand to make those go away
.
So they're doing their best tofind solutions for borrowers.
We did ask what they or theircompanies are doing to reach
underserved markets, okay andaffordable lending products and
(05:23):
programs, down paymentassistance, those were top of
the list at 76% or 73%respectively.
So those are, you know, reallyproduct focused solutions that
they're looking at.
We also asked them for thefirst time how do you help a
borrower who's not quite yetmortgage ready?
They're interested in buying ahouse.
They come to you.
They may have various reasonswhy they're not going to qualify
(05:45):
just yet, so do you refer?
What do you do?
A lot of LOs said they workpersonally with those borrowers
to help them get to the nextplace.
So I really like this quotespecifically from one respondent
who said, "if credit or DTIrelated I coach.
If they need additionalfinancial assistance, I refer
them to local communityorganizations.
(06:06):
So kind of speaks to the waythat they're working with their
borrowers as consultants in someway.
So when they do refer, 41% saidthey refer to credit repair
services, 20% said HUD approvedhousing counseling organizations
and 14% local communityorganizations.
So it was a new question thisyear and it was interesting to
kind of hear how loan officersare kind of keeping those
(06:28):
borrowers in their pipeline whomight not be ready to go.
Stephanie Budnik (06:32):
And I think that's really important with the
market today, because it takesa lot longer to be in the home
buying process.
You could be in the home buyingprocess for years, so getting
them really ready so that theydon't have as many affordability
challenges or credit issuesthat come up along the line.
Having these types of resourcesis really a great way to do
that.
(06:52):
As we talk a little bit moreabout affordability, low down
payment mortgage options are abig part of that toolkit, of
course, obviously privatemortgage insurance being a big
one there.
Liz Keuler (07:02):
Yay, MGIC!
Stephanie Budnik (07:03):
I know right?
Did we have a consistent findingon the use of MI from year to
year?
Liz Keuler (07:09):
Yeah, it was pretty consistently the most popular
option.
Low down payment option is aconventional mortgage with PMI.
Luckily for us, 79% of LOs saythat they recommend it often.
We found that DPA, which Ialready mentioned.
It has ticked up 45% say theyuse it often, compared to 39%
(07:31):
last year.
So again, that might bereflecting the affordability
challenges that LOs are lookingfor, the resources that are out
there for borrowers.
And we also found that and thisis no surprise, it's the same
every year loan officers reallytake the trusted advisor role
really seriously.
We ask them how do you decide,how do you coach in terms of low
down payment options?
And you know across the boardwhat they say what kind of
(07:54):
options are available to them?
So they treat every borrowerindividually, like what
challenges they're finding mighthave a different solution for
each one.
So I really always like readingthose answers because you know
(08:15):
it's kind of to heartwarming toknow they trust that they're
actually a person on the otherside, not just a number.
Stephanie Budnik (08:21):
Right, exactly , not just a closing they're
trying to get to.
Another consistent topic that wetalk about from year to year is
marketing.
I see that word of mouth isstill king, and that is no
surprise at all for successfulmarketing media.
But what do you see when youlook at marketing trends?
Maybe for loan officers?
Liz Keuler (08:41):
Yeah, like you said, you can't beat word of mouth.
That's still going to be thetop, with 90% of LOs saying it's
, you know, one of the mostimportant marketing avenues they
have.
Social media tends to grow inpopularity, mostly like the big
three Instagram, facebook,linkedin.
Those are the ones kind of youthink of, the most traditional
(09:02):
but while not widespread, we dosee YouTube and TikTok are
growing a little bit inpopularity.
I think that speaks to theimportance of video, both short
form on the TikTok side and longform on YouTube.
That's ways that loan officersare seeing that they can educate
borrowers and they can reachreferral partners.
Again, I don't want to overstateit, it's not like everybody's
(09:23):
doing TikTok these days, butit's more popular with less
experienced LOs.
13% of LOs with five years orless experience say that they
use TikTok for business, whichis kind of a surprising number
to me.
That's compared to 3% for thegroup that's 16 years and above.
And then, since we've beentalking about social media, it's
no surprise.
(09:43):
Social media is the mostpopular way that loan officers
are reaching the nextgenerations of homebuyers, so
still millennials and Gen Z.
So that just keeps growing.
So it makes sense that socialmedia in general it's not going
anywhere.
But more and more LOs are kindof realizing that's where they
need to be to reach the nextwave of borrowers.
Stephanie Budnik (10:04):
I think that dovetails nicely into just a
little bit more about word ofmouth.
So word of mouth can be so manydifferent things, but it's how
they're getting their name outto other borrowers potentially,
and who might be interested.
Maybe they see them on socialor their network.
But it also really relates toreferrals, Of course.
And thinking about referralsand who they work with, I
(10:24):
noticed on the survey that topreferral sources haven't changed
year over year.
They're obviously still goingto be real estate agents and
past clients.
So, as we think about that andit being the most popular, I
want to kind of look at theother side of the spectrum.
Were there any other additionaltrends that we saw in the data
as it relates to referrals?
Liz Keuler (10:43):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I don't think it's ever goingto change that real estate
agents and past clients aregoing to be the most popular
referral sources.
The one thing that I found alittle interesting little nugget
is that I filtered the resultsby the loan officers who had
done 76 or more loans last yearaccording to them, so kind of
the top tier, and see, are theydoing anything differently from
(11:05):
those who are doing fewer loans?
I should say they're morelikely to list builders among
their top referral sources thanthe overall group, you know, 20
percentage points higher.
So that's a pretty significantdifference.
Just something that loanofficers might consider when
they're thinking about wheretheir referral sources are
coming from and diversifyingthem.
That's a trend that we saw.
(11:26):
We also saw that referrals werea big trend for business goals.
It's a little bit later in thesurvey we asked them what are
your business goals?
And even though you think aboutreferrals as like bread and
butter, like they're just,they're always working on those
they're always going to have tobe working on referrals.
it's still something that's topof mind in terms of diversifying
referral sources, increasingthe number of referral sources
(11:49):
they have from, you know,different people, increasing the
number of referrals they getfrom key referral partners.
So that's always going to be atopic.
I think that's popular and wedo see it in business goals as
well.
Stephanie Budnik (12:00):
I think you hit on one thing specifically.
There was just diversifyingyour network and your database
and, like you said, with the toporiginators, you know, doing
more with builders.
If somebody's looking for moreof an edge coming up here in
2025, that could be maybe aconsideration.
I noticed we also asked somequestions around partnerships.
(12:20):
We added communityorganizations as an option, as a
referral source as well, and soI really like just the
multitude of diversity asthey're thinking about ways to
grow not only their network butwithin their communities.
Liz Keuler (12:35):
Yeah, I think that was a big theme that I started
to see throughout the survey.
You know, whether it's diversereferral sources, whether it's
community organizations thatthey're referring their
borrowers to when they need helpbecause they're not quite ready
, whether it's industry groupsthat they're affiliated with,
which could be referral or couldbe knowledge-based, it's
(12:58):
important to recognize that weare all part of this ecosystem.
We're kind of all in ittogether with the same goal of
putting more borrowers in homes,and there are different ways
that loan officers are usingthose partnerships, you know,
than just strictly like oh, Iget referrals from them, it's
you know, we're all working as agroup.
So I think that was aninteresting sort of trend
throughout as we added some ofthose questions that saw some of
(13:19):
the answers.
Stephanie Budnik (13:21):
And I think you had mentioned trade groups
as being a way, and I know thatthat was something new for us as
we find community becoming moreof a thing.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Liz Keuler (13:29):
Yeah, that was a new question.
We wanted to ask to see whatkind of affiliations loan
officers you know who they'reworking with, and I was a little
bit surprised, to be honest.
You know, the MBA was a popularone.
46% of the respondents saidthat they are, you know, working
with or follow the MBA.
But other than that, we listeda lot of other options that we
think are pretty popular, likeNamba and NARED, et cetera, and
(13:53):
it just wasn't a big number fora lot of those smaller
organizations, and I think thatmight be an opportunity again as
we're looking toward 2025, islook for your local chapter for
some of these organizations thatcan help put you in touch with
other sources of referralpartners and borrowers within
your community.
Stephanie Budnik (14:13):
I definitely think that that's a way that you
can step outside of the box andmaybe be a little bit
uncomfortable or vulnerable, butlearn more about what's
available to you.
You had mentioned aboutdifferent goals that people
stated in diversifying theirreferral partnerships.
Is there anything else that LOsare looking to do in the future
, as they were talking abouttheir goals?
Sure.
Liz Keuler (14:34):
So the survey was conducted in June, as I said,
before the rates started comingdown.
I think everybody it seemed tome everybody's kind of hunkered
down Like the 2023 survey felt alittle bit like catastrophic in
certain ways.
A lot of people were talkingabout survival.
There was like a hugedifference from 2021 and 2022
and then 2023,.
But then things kind of settledand it's not to say that they
(14:56):
settled in a place where loanofficers are content and excited
and getting all the businessthey want, but they are kind of
making the same amount of loansthat they did in 2023.
Most of them, when asked, saidthat they were going to either
end the year close to that theydid in 2023.
Most of them, when asked, saidthat they were going to either
end the year close to what theydid last year or a little bit
above.
So that was, I think, stable.
(15:16):
But they are waiting for themarket to change the key turn.
The thing that, whatever it is,is going to make it suddenly
where they're.
You know their borrowers arecoming out of the woodwork and
they're less hesitant andthey're ready to go.
But I do think loan officers dohave big goals for 2025, looking
ahead.
A lot of them use words likeexceed, double, triple increase
(15:38):
in those open field for thegoals.
We said what are your businessgoals?
So we noticed that a lot ofthat was a trend that they are
looking ahead and they'rethinking I'm trying to increase
my business, I'm trying to domore.
I think they've been laying thegroundwork and now they're
hoping that they're going to seethe results from doing that.
So, since rates did come down,it's going to be really
interesting to look forward,then, to next year's survey,
(15:59):
June 2025.
What are the answers going tobe to a lot of these questions?
I don't know, but I'm lookingforward to finding out.
Stephanie Budnik (16:05):
I know I love the optimism and a little bit
more of the getting back to thegrind that I think that some of
these results say so.
Liz, thank you so much for yourtime today.
The survey has really providedsome great insights for us to
look at and see what originatorsare doing around the industry
today.
So for additional informationor your copy of the survey, feel
free to go to LoanOfficerHub.
(16:26):
com.
That brings us to the end ofMortgage Connect's episode.
For a recap of this episode andquick access to related content
, visit MortgageConnect.
com.
There you can subscribe foremail alerts to be among the
first to know about new episodes.
Thank you,
Welcome to Mortgage Connects, bringing you
the latest insights from topmortgage professionals around
the industry.
I'm your host, stephanieBunnick, and with me today we
have Liz K.
She is the editor of LoanOfficer Hub, which is a site
that's dedicated to bring toolsand insights to loan officers.
Liz, welcome Thanks for joiningus today.
Liz Keuler (00:21):
Thanks for having me .
I'm so happy to be here.
Stephanie Budnik (00:23):
I'm really excited to discuss the exclusive
insights from the latest loanoriginator survey conducted by
MGIC and Loan Officer Hub.
This is the fourth year that wehave surveyed loan officers
about their challenges,opportunities and their
activities, and the report isnow out on LoanOfficerHub.
com.
Liz Keuler (00:39):
That's true.
You can go and get your copy ofthe report today at Loan
Officer Hub.
Stephanie Budnik (00:45):
So, as we think about digging into this,
can you just set the scene, tellus a little bit more about the
survey in general, maybe whoparticipated and whatnot?
Liz Keuler (00:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, as you said, it's ourfourth year.
We did conduct the survey inJune, as we always do, which is
a little bit before the ratescame down, so that's something
to keep in mind.
We had about a thousandoriginators participate this
year, which is about the same aslast year, so a nice group,
mostly loan officers, a fewbranch managers, a few sales
(01:11):
managers.
Just kind of to give you anidea who these people are.
About a third of them aremortgage bankers, 22% work for
banks, 19% are brokers, 17%community banks and 8% credit
union.
64% of the whole group wereover age 50, which is a pretty
consistent with what we've seenin the past.
But we did hear from slightlymore loan officers with less
(01:33):
experience this year.
So you know we asked them howlong have you been in the
business?
And folks who have 15 or yearsexperience or less - we had 40%
in that group compared to 35%last year, so you can see
corresponding we had you know,still a slightly more tenured
group, but not quite as much aswe have had in years past, and
(01:54):
we did have a pretty broadspectrum of production numbers
for these folks.
20% of respondents said theydid 10 or less loans in 2023,
and 13 percent said they did 76or more loans last year, and
then we had a mix of tiers inbetween, so it is a really
varied group in terms of howmuch production they're doing.
Stephanie Budnik (02:16):
Yeah, it seems pretty diverse from the
organizations to the individuals, and so it's a good mix of you
know what's really going on inthe market, mm-hmm.
So, with this being the fourthyear, I know we do often ask
very similar questions from yearto year, but can you tell me,
were there any new questionsthis year?
Liz Keuler (02:33):
Sure, like you said, we do try to keep it consistent
so we can compare year to yearand have kind of a sense of how
trends are changing.
But we do ask a few newquestions to make sure we're on
top of changes in the market,new trends.
So this year we did include theNAR settlement as an option
under greatest challenges, likeuncertainty around what was
happening with the NARsettlement, because that was in
(02:54):
the news so much.
But we only found that 6% ofloan officers selected that as a
challenge.
So it might be something that'smore like in the news than
actually impacting loan officersas of yet.
We asked about technologythat's most critical to loan
officers' success.
It's not really surprising, butloan origination systems,
product pricing engines (03:13):
those are the most important to LOs.
The other thing I would saythat's been in the news for
every industry is AI.
So we did ask, "Do you use AIand how?
So 64% said they don't use itor they're not aware.
Maybe it's incorporated into asystem but they don't know.
26% said they do use it formarketing.
(03:35):
So that's like using chat GPTto create a marketing message
for you.
Write an email or social postand newer loan officers are more
likely to say that they use AIthan more tenured LOs.
So maybe it's that you knowthey might be a younger crowd,
or it might be that they haven'tfound their niche and they are
trying more new things, whereasmore tenured LOs kind of have
(03:56):
their set ways of how they'regoing about things.
But it'll be interesting to seeif that changes next year, as
AI continues to be, you know,part of the news.
Stephanie Budnik (04:03):
Yep and some of the things you know with.
Even with the NAR, thesupplement, that more happened
in August, right?
Liz Keuler (04:10):
So maybe people's results.
Yeah, I'm not sure what's goingto happen.
Stephanie Budnik (04:13):
So yeah, that's very interesting.
As we look back at the surveyand I had a chance to kind of
peek at that it seems clear thatoriginators continue to focus
on purchase markets and refisand with refis kind of coming in
and out of the market dependingon what it's doing and how
rates are.
One of the things that stillremains consistent, regardless
(04:34):
of that, is affordability andbeing a challenge for homebuyers
.
So what did some of the surveyresults say around that kind of
topic?
Liz Keuler (04:38):
Okay, yeah, you're totally right.
Affordability was the greatestchallenge this year for their
business.
And then, when we asked themabout challenges for borrowers,
they also ranked interest rates,mortgage payment, affordability
, down payments as greaterchallenges in 2024 than they did
in 2023, where inventory andbidding wars used to be a little
(05:01):
bit more of an issue inprevious years.
Now those are less of an issue.
So those are problems forborrowers that persist and
originators can't just wave amagic wand to make those go away
.
So they're doing their best tofind solutions for borrowers.
We did ask what they or theircompanies are doing to reach
underserved markets, okay andaffordable lending products and
(05:23):
programs, down paymentassistance, those were top of
the list at 76% or 73%respectively.
So those are, you know, reallyproduct focused solutions that
they're looking at.
We also asked them for thefirst time how do you help a
borrower who's not quite yetmortgage ready?
They're interested in buying ahouse.
They come to you.
They may have various reasonswhy they're not going to qualify
(05:45):
just yet, so do you refer?
What do you do?
A lot of LOs said they workpersonally with those borrowers
to help them get to the nextplace.
So I really like this quotespecifically from one respondent
who said, "if credit or DTIrelated I coach.
If they need additionalfinancial assistance, I refer
them to local communityorganizations.
(06:06):
So kind of speaks to the waythat they're working with their
borrowers as consultants in someway.
So when they do refer, 41% saidthey refer to credit repair
services, 20% said HUD approvedhousing counseling organizations
and 14% local communityorganizations.
So it was a new question thisyear and it was interesting to
kind of hear how loan officersare kind of keeping those
(06:28):
borrowers in their pipeline whomight not be ready to go.
Stephanie Budnik (06:32):
And I think that's really important with the
market today, because it takesa lot longer to be in the home
buying process.
You could be in the home buyingprocess for years, so getting
them really ready so that theydon't have as many affordability
challenges or credit issuesthat come up along the line.
Having these types of resourcesis really a great way to do
that.
(06:52):
As we talk a little bit moreabout affordability, low down
payment mortgage options are abig part of that toolkit, of
course, obviously privatemortgage insurance being a big
one there.
Liz Keuler (07:02):
Yay, MGIC!
Stephanie Budnik (07:03):
I know right?
Did we have a consistent findingon the use of MI from year to
year?
Liz Keuler (07:09):
Yeah, it was pretty consistently the most popular
option.
Low down payment option is aconventional mortgage with PMI.
Luckily for us, 79% of LOs saythat they recommend it often.
We found that DPA, which Ialready mentioned.
It has ticked up 45% say theyuse it often, compared to 39%
(07:31):
last year.
So again, that might bereflecting the affordability
challenges that LOs are lookingfor, the resources that are out
there for borrowers.
And we also found that and thisis no surprise, it's the same
every year loan officers reallytake the trusted advisor role
really seriously.
We ask them how do you decide,how do you coach in terms of low
down payment options?
And you know across the boardwhat they say what kind of
(07:54):
options are available to them?
So they treat every borrowerindividually, like what
challenges they're finding mighthave a different solution for
each one.
So I really always like readingthose answers because you know
(08:15):
it's kind of to heartwarming toknow they trust that they're
actually a person on the otherside, not just a number.
Stephanie Budnik (08:21):
Right, exactly , not just a closing they're
trying to get to.
Another consistent topic that wetalk about from year to year is
marketing.
I see that word of mouth isstill king, and that is no
surprise at all for successfulmarketing media.
But what do you see when youlook at marketing trends?
Maybe for loan officers?
Liz Keuler (08:41):
Yeah, like you said, you can't beat word of mouth.
That's still going to be thetop, with 90% of LOs saying it's
, you know, one of the mostimportant marketing avenues they
have.
Social media tends to grow inpopularity, mostly like the big
three Instagram, facebook,linkedin.
Those are the ones kind of youthink of, the most traditional
(09:02):
but while not widespread, we dosee YouTube and TikTok are
growing a little bit inpopularity.
I think that speaks to theimportance of video, both short
form on the TikTok side and longform on YouTube.
That's ways that loan officersare seeing that they can educate
borrowers and they can reachreferral partners.
Again, I don't want to overstateit, it's not like everybody's
(09:23):
doing TikTok these days, butit's more popular with less
experienced LOs.
13% of LOs with five years orless experience say that they
use TikTok for business, whichis kind of a surprising number
to me.
That's compared to 3% for thegroup that's 16 years and above.
And then, since we've beentalking about social media, it's
no surprise.
(09:43):
Social media is the mostpopular way that loan officers
are reaching the nextgenerations of homebuyers, so
still millennials and Gen Z.
So that just keeps growing.
So it makes sense that socialmedia in general it's not going
anywhere.
But more and more LOs are kindof realizing that's where they
need to be to reach the nextwave of borrowers.
Stephanie Budnik (10:04):
I think that dovetails nicely into just a
little bit more about word ofmouth.
So word of mouth can be so manydifferent things, but it's how
they're getting their name outto other borrowers potentially,
and who might be interested.
Maybe they see them on socialor their network.
But it also really relates toreferrals, Of course.
And thinking about referralsand who they work with, I
(10:24):
noticed on the survey that topreferral sources haven't changed
year over year.
They're obviously still goingto be real estate agents and
past clients.
So, as we think about that andit being the most popular, I
want to kind of look at theother side of the spectrum.
Were there any other additionaltrends that we saw in the data
as it relates to referrals?
Liz Keuler (10:43):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I don't think it's ever goingto change that real estate
agents and past clients aregoing to be the most popular
referral sources.
The one thing that I found alittle interesting little nugget
is that I filtered the resultsby the loan officers who had
done 76 or more loans last yearaccording to them, so kind of
the top tier, and see, are theydoing anything differently from
(11:05):
those who are doing fewer loans?
I should say they're morelikely to list builders among
their top referral sources thanthe overall group, you know, 20
percentage points higher.
So that's a pretty significantdifference.
Just something that loanofficers might consider when
they're thinking about wheretheir referral sources are
coming from and diversifyingthem.
That's a trend that we saw.
(11:26):
We also saw that referrals werea big trend for business goals.
It's a little bit later in thesurvey we asked them what are
your business goals?
And even though you think aboutreferrals as like bread and
butter, like they're just,they're always working on those
they're always going to have tobe working on referrals.
it's still something that's topof mind in terms of diversifying
referral sources, increasingthe number of referral sources
(11:49):
they have from, you know,different people, increasing the
number of referrals they getfrom key referral partners.
So that's always going to be atopic.
I think that's popular and wedo see it in business goals as
well.
Stephanie Budnik (12:00):
I think you hit on one thing specifically.
There was just diversifyingyour network and your database
and, like you said, with the toporiginators, you know, doing
more with builders.
If somebody's looking for moreof an edge coming up here in
2025, that could be maybe aconsideration.
I noticed we also asked somequestions around partnerships.
(12:20):
We added communityorganizations as an option, as a
referral source as well, and soI really like just the
multitude of diversity asthey're thinking about ways to
grow not only their network butwithin their communities.
Liz Keuler (12:35):
Yeah, I think that was a big theme that I started
to see throughout the survey.
You know, whether it's diversereferral sources, whether it's
community organizations thatthey're referring their
borrowers to when they need helpbecause they're not quite ready
, whether it's industry groupsthat they're affiliated with,
which could be referral or couldbe knowledge-based, it's
(12:58):
important to recognize that weare all part of this ecosystem.
We're kind of all in ittogether with the same goal of
putting more borrowers in homes,and there are different ways
that loan officers are usingthose partnerships, you know,
than just strictly like oh, Iget referrals from them, it's
you know, we're all working as agroup.
So I think that was aninteresting sort of trend
throughout as we added some ofthose questions that saw some of
(13:19):
the answers.
Stephanie Budnik (13:21):
And I think you had mentioned trade groups
as being a way, and I know thatthat was something new for us as
we find community becoming moreof a thing.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Liz Keuler (13:29):
Yeah, that was a new question.
We wanted to ask to see whatkind of affiliations loan
officers you know who they'reworking with, and I was a little
bit surprised, to be honest.
You know, the MBA was a popularone.
46% of the respondents saidthat they are, you know, working
with or follow the MBA.
But other than that, we listeda lot of other options that we
think are pretty popular, likeNamba and NARED, et cetera, and
(13:53):
it just wasn't a big number fora lot of those smaller
organizations, and I think thatmight be an opportunity again as
we're looking toward 2025, islook for your local chapter for
some of these organizations thatcan help put you in touch with
other sources of referralpartners and borrowers within
your community.
Stephanie Budnik (14:13):
I definitely think that that's a way that you
can step outside of the box andmaybe be a little bit
uncomfortable or vulnerable, butlearn more about what's
available to you.
You had mentioned aboutdifferent goals that people
stated in diversifying theirreferral partnerships.
Is there anything else that LOsare looking to do in the future
, as they were talking abouttheir goals?
Sure.
Liz Keuler (14:34):
So the survey was conducted in June, as I said,
before the rates started comingdown.
I think everybody it seemed tome everybody's kind of hunkered
down Like the 2023 survey felt alittle bit like catastrophic in
certain ways.
A lot of people were talkingabout survival.
There was like a hugedifference from 2021 and 2022
and then 2023,.
But then things kind of settledand it's not to say that they
(14:56):
settled in a place where loanofficers are content and excited
and getting all the businessthey want, but they are kind of
making the same amount of loansthat they did in 2023.
Most of them, when asked, saidthat they were going to either
end the year close to that theydid in 2023.
Most of them, when asked, saidthat they were going to either
end the year close to what theydid last year or a little bit
above.
So that was, I think, stable.
(15:16):
But they are waiting for themarket to change the key turn.
The thing that, whatever it is,is going to make it suddenly
where they're.
You know their borrowers arecoming out of the woodwork and
they're less hesitant andthey're ready to go.
But I do think loan officers dohave big goals for 2025, looking
ahead.
A lot of them use words likeexceed, double, triple increase
(15:38):
in those open field for thegoals.
We said what are your businessgoals?
So we noticed that a lot ofthat was a trend that they are
looking ahead and they'rethinking I'm trying to increase
my business, I'm trying to domore.
I think they've been laying thegroundwork and now they're
hoping that they're going to seethe results from doing that.
So, since rates did come down,it's going to be really
interesting to look forward,then, to next year's survey,
(15:59):
June 2025.
What are the answers going tobe to a lot of these questions?
I don't know, but I'm lookingforward to finding out.
Stephanie Budnik (16:05):
I know I love the optimism and a little bit
more of the getting back to thegrind that I think that some of
these results say so.
Liz, thank you so much for yourtime today.
The survey has really providedsome great insights for us to
look at and see what originatorsare doing around the industry
today.
So for additional informationor your copy of the survey, feel
free to go to LoanOfficerHub.
(16:26):
com.
That brings us to the end ofMortgage Connect's episode.
For a recap of this episode andquick access to related content
, visit MortgageConnect.
com.
There you can subscribe foremail alerts to be among the
first to know about new episodes.
Thank you,
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