November 29, 2023 • 25 mins
We decode the art of social media for mortgage professionals with First International Bank & Trust’s Kayla Kallander, a.k.a. the "mortgage meteorologist," as she navigates LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok. Kayla’s experience and deep understanding of these platforms provide a treasure trove of insights on capitalizing social media’s benefits, and its potential to disrupt traditional search engines, to help you maximize your social media posting.
Kayla cuts through the noise and delves into the pillars of effective social media posting: education and connection. Our conversation explores the importance of showcasing personal interests to foster connections and humanize your online persona, making you irresistible to potential clients. From scheduling posts and optimizing hashtags to adapting strategies based on performance, our episode is brimming with actionable tips.
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Connects, an MGIC podcast. If you have questions, comments, or want to get involved, send an email to mortgageconnects@mgic.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody and welcome to Mortgage Connects.
I have Kayla Callender with metoday from First International
Bank Trust.
Kayla is known as the mortgagemeteorologist, helping prepare
clients for the uncertain andalways changing scenarios of
buying help.
Kayla is devoted to hermortgage clients and referral
partners, ensuring they receiveelite service, inspiring
(00:25):
education and constantcommunication throughout the
home loan journey.
She's an ad-bid social mediaconnector and loves the ability
to reach a multitude of peoplevirtually to create
relationships.
She enjoys the ability to coachclients through the psychology
and the purpose behind contentcreation.
Kayla is a radiance to any stageshe speaks on, as she
(00:46):
passionately shares sales andsocial media advice, from small
groups of her coffee to largegatherings on stage.
Kayla, I love so much of thatbio I can't even tell you
because first I love themeteorologist.
I was like that is the coolestway to say that.
Well, you got to stand outsomehow.
Yes, I love it and I love howmuch you're embracing, from a
(01:08):
social standpoint, even just tostart off based on your bio,
just the ability to create arelationship with somebody as
our world has evolved.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, and as it continues to evolve, it's
evergreen and always changing,and you never know where you're
going to connect with someonenext, and that could be social.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Thank you so much for being onwith MGRC today.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I am honored to be here.
I know I'm in great presence.
You guys always offer so mucheducation.
It's constantly in my email andpeople really look up to you
guys as a valid, trustworthyresource.
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you so much I heard about you through social,
so that's how, one of the wayswe got connected and through
your account manager, and Ithought what a great way to
exemplify the example ofutilizing social in a positive
way.
That can sometimes be reallyscary to people.
So let's just start with thebasics and say when did you
(02:04):
start using social and whichplatforms?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, I was one of the early adopters of LinkedIn.
So when I first started as amortgage loan officer, there was
this thing that I thought youknow what?
This is a way for me to postclosings and post celebrations
and education, and a lot of thetimes I was posting just the
closings or congratulations andwhat I noticed was happening and
(02:28):
this is back, stephanie, inlike 2014, I noticed that I
would go out and I'd be out andabout in the community and
someone would say, oh, you'rethe LinkedIn girl.
And it hit me then that peopleknew what my job was and what I
was doing.
That I didn't even know.
I thought that we could haverelied on Facebook and Instagram
, but it felt more personal atthe time those platforms.
(02:50):
So what I was discovering at ayoung age gosh, nine years ago
was the powerful tool thatLinkedIn had, and so that's
where I first started mytechnical, my social media
journey.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So way back, I wouldn't have guessed that.
But what I read I was thinkingabout the question I was like,
oh, I wonder what she's going tosay.
So that's really cool.
I know that it's such a greatway to grow connections and,
like you said, the way that yourlittle web grows without you
even knowing people.
You almost feel like you knowsomebody sometimes before you
even meet and you're like, ohyeah, oh wait, I didn't really
(03:25):
see you.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well and some of us compare it, we talked before
others you know people in social.
It's like you almost feel likewhen you see someone on social
they're a celebrity until youmeet them.
Although it's not likecelebrity status, you really get
to know somebody because you'reseeing everything they do.
But what's really cool aboutthat is you can walk up to
someone and feel like you'veknown them forever and talk
about their dogs or theirchildren, and it's such an easy
(03:49):
segue to just start a businessor a relationship with someone
because they already know you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yes, I really really like that and I like the aspect
of kind of getting to knowpeople.
It can be intimidating to meetpeople, so being able to make
that almost immediate connection, like we both have dogs, I mean
that's.
It's simple, as it is Very cool.
When you talk about platforms,and LinkedIn being the first one
, are there others that you'reutilizing either more so today
(04:16):
instead of and, and why?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah.
So I leaned into Instagramquite a bit and then came TikTok
.
So one of the reasons that I'veleaned most heavily into
Instagram was because I likedall of the things that it
offered.
It combines so many platformsinto one.
You've got your posting ofpictures or solid, just general,
(04:40):
to kind of like your story oryour grid.
That's kind of like Facebook.
Right, you've got stories inthere, like Snapchat.
You can do reels, like TikTok,and on top of it you can have a
link at the top of your screen,just like LinkedIn.
So what I love about Instagramis you get all of these
platforms, it seems, like, intoone.
So that's what I've beenleaning heavily into myself.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Are you still utilizing the others or you're
pretty much predominantlyfocusing, because I know there
is connections to other ones?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
you know, like when you post one place at almost
like Cascades, do you just useone versus the other now, or I
use them all because it's alldifferent audiences, different
people, and so because I startedLinkedIn so heavily right away,
I have more followers there.
Instagram I can reach differenttarget markets, just like TikTok
I feel like people go to, and Ithink I read a survey I think
(05:30):
Kristen Messerly had a Gen Zarticle come out that 70% of
people go to Instagram to search, and it makes me think Google
might not even be an option inthe future, because people are
really leaning into theseplatforms to go and search
things, whether it's you'relooking for how to do your nails
for Halloween, or maybe you'relooking for tips to be a home
(05:52):
buyer, so there's all of theseways to search.
So I feel like I'm leaningheavily into Instagram and
TikTok for Reels, but alsoleaning into LinkedIn for
education, and, of course, Icross post on all of them, even
to the point of posting on myFacebook page too, because we've
all had Facebook since what youknow, the over, the years 2004
(06:14):
or something.
Yeah so you've got connectionsthere, or maybe you post your
story.
So you really just there's noright or wrong answer, it's what
works for you.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You know it's a way to think about something, but
everyone being, it used to be aGoogle search away, but now it
is just a search.
And how are you beingrepresented on the platforms
that you're on and are youtelling the right story to the
people that you want to?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
see it Right.
And then you have to thinkabout it's who's following this,
who is going to be seeing thisthe most, and that's where you
decide what you put out there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So it's probably a two-fold question, but are there
others that you foresee usingin the future, or is it?
You know, where you're at rightnow seems like a good solution,
and as we continue to evolveand new ones come out there, you
may adjust them.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's a great question .
I think everyone is a littleresistant to change, right?
You know it's like, oh gosh, Ihave to learn something new now,
and gosh, we already have allthese platforms.
But I think YouTube and YouTubeshorts is something that most
people should get into.
So, like, if I'm on, you know,certain podcasts, will you know,
plug it there.
But essentially it's a way forpeople to search.
It's a way for people to goback and watch or be educated.
(07:19):
I think that everything else isgoing to just be ever changing,
right?
Instagram is going to come outtomorrow with a different
algorithm for all we know, andso I I'm leaning into the ones
that I already know, but beingvery open and optimistic about
the ones that maybe I couldlearn more about, and that would
be YouTube.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Okay, and for for others out there.
For when you talk about YouTubeshorts, is that any different
than the regular YouTube?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
No, it's essentially built within YouTube, so instead
of searching, you know, longform video, this would be short,
so that it's kind of like whenyou're on TikTok and Instagram
and you're scrolling.
That's where the shorts wouldlie, so that's kind of where I
would want to lean.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Okay, that makes sense, and we talked about
advancements in technology andwhere to look at.
You and I have talked brieflyabout chat GPT, but can you tell
me a little bit about how youfeel about it and how it could
relate to our industry?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, chat GPT is something that I feel it's a
really easy thing to use onceyou start using it.
But it's really easy to takeout your own genuine, authentic
creativity and so you'll seepeople.
You know, I've heard people thatrecently had a conversation
with someone that they said thatone of their clients that they
(08:33):
coach used chat GPT to define,like, their goals.
And it's like there's such away that you can use this for
the better that if you're notusing it the right way, it's
only going to hurt you.
And so I will use chat GPT, forexample, if I am teaching a
course on social media and I'msaying, you know, I know what I
want to talk about, but maybe Ijust need to get some creativity
(08:55):
flowing.
Or maybe I want to know whatare some issues people have,
maybe that I'm not even aware of.
So I will use it as somethingto kind of spur some ideas.
But if you're truly copying andpasting, people on the other
end will be able to know.
But it is a useful tool forreally like just kind of
breaking that barrier, of kindof being stuck is how I feel
(09:16):
it's beneficial.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It's a jumping point right, like you can use it to
not be so stuck and unable.
I think for me, being a listmaker and a ridiculous like
perfectionist, that I'm likesometimes terrified to start
things right, but once, if youhave a way to get your brain
starting to think about how itcan really resonate for you, it
(09:38):
makes it less intimidating.
I think that's just.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's a roadmap, it's a starting point, and I think
that's what most people havedifficulties with in their life
is just starting.
So it can be useful for you theright way.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, I like that.
Let's pivot back a little bitmore to social media and some of
those channels.
What pillars do you talk alittle bit about?
Education and connection.
What pillars do you utilizewhen you focus on posting?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Pillars are something that I think people just it's
such a simple tool to use butthey don't think about it when
you're wondering because guesswhat?
We just talked about gettingstuck.
This is the same way.
When people go to post, it'sthis thing where they feel stuck
.
They're like I don't know whatto post.
I don't know what people wantto know about real estate.
(10:25):
So for me, what we do everysingle time, that I probably
quarterly I'll look at this, butI will have pillars.
What are pillars?
Those are things that I want totalk about.
For example, if I want to knowsomething's working.
For a while I was posting onFargo, north Dakota, weather,
mortgage and my dogs, becausethose are the things that I
(10:49):
could poke fun at our weatherPeople didn't really understand
how cold it was.
Then mortgage, obviously,because that's what I do and
what I'm passionate about, butby also implementing my dogs for
rescue dogs.
That's just something peopledon't typically see.
But you can connect with otherswhen you talk about these
things.
So I would rotate a mortgagereel, a reel about the weather,
(11:11):
a reel about dogs.
What I would do is I would playwith those and see if I
connected with people more or ifI got more engagement, then
what I would do is maybe I wouldtake out maybe the Fargo
weather piece, and now I'm goingto talk about our late cabin,
because people want to know whathappens in the state of
Minnesota on vacation, so justthings like that.
So by having your pillars,maybe it's your kids, maybe
(11:32):
you're a soccer coach, maybe onthe side you play adult
volleyball league those thingsallow you to connect, because
Stephanie sometimes the bestconnections or your next client
is not at your job, it could beat your local restaurant, it
could be at your kids, like Isaid, soccer game.
So by having these pillars andposting about them, people feel
(11:56):
like they get to know youwithout necessarily being right
in front of you at that soccergame.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Exactly right.
So when you do that, you'reable to do more of what works
for you and where yourengagement really is.
I love that you look at that ona quarterly basis, because then
you're not just doing itbecause you said you're going to
do it.
You're really doing whatmatters Right, or at least make
an impact.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
You're humanizing yourself, you're making yourself
as a human.
I'm just not Kayla thismortgage lender.
I'm Kayla who is married andlives here and has these dogs.
I really like this type of food.
You just get to know people andthose are your pillars.
So I think just looking atthose and testing them out is
really helpful to just gettingstarted.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Now, is there a certain time that you recommend
posting them?
Does that vary per platform?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I think it varies per platform and what kind of
audience.
So whether you're looking atlike a Gen Z or millennial, or
maybe you're in law and you'reposting something about you work
with, maybe retired people orjust depends on your audience.
But the algorithms that I'velooked into have always shown
that in the mornings you get themost connections.
(13:05):
Weekends not as much, becausepeople aren't really scrolling.
So it just kind of depends.
I play around with it.
Sometimes I have good luck at 530 in the morning, sometimes
not at all.
So it truly depends.
But I would say Instagram wouldbe kind of early mornings.
I would say, in my opinion,tiktok maybe between like 9 and
11.
But again, it just depends onthat day, depends on the day in
(13:28):
the audience.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So don't get stuck in a.
I have to do it every day at 530.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, and there's a cool feature where you can auto
set it.
So before they had this, Iwould be like getting up early
in the morning, like if I was uplate and I couldn't get a
workout in, I'd set my alarm sothat I could post at 5 30.
Where now you can set it whereyou don't have to be if you
can't get up.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
What?
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
I think that everyone's alwayslooking for not necessarily a
shortcut, but whether there'shacks or there's different tools
in which to post that make thisa little bit more simplistic,
do you guys know us, and whatare they?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
For Instagram, you can go and set in your advanced
settings.
For example, you can go in andput to schedule a reel, so you
can get it together.
It's all good to go.
You've got the reel, you've gotall the editing, you've got the
hashtags, the content, thedialogue, and then you can put
schedule for tomorrow at 2 PM.
That way you don't have to beon top of it and you can
(14:25):
schedule those out and it'struly just one simple tool in
your advanced settings.
And that is Uber helpful and sosome of the other platforms
have that as well.
If you just go into thescheduled part, dive in there
and just give yourself a breakso you can have a little gray,
so you don't always have toremember.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You're talking about hashtags.
Do you find that those work and, if so, how many should people
utilize?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's funny.
I watched a reel the other dayand someone was asking do you
still use hashtags?
And they were saying it doesn'twork and some were saying it
does.
So I find it's helpful Becauseif someone's looking, I'm just
going to use this home buying101.
They might still go searchthose hashtags.
So if I'm putting that to mypost, I'm just helping out the
(15:10):
actual ability for that reel orpost to be seen.
Now I attended social con in LAback in April and one of the
things that we talked about wasnot having too many hashtags and
it feels like there's alwaysthis algorithm you're trying to
understand.
But for me I say use them, use10 to 12 and see where it goes
(15:30):
and the pillars use those, seeif people gain traction and just
test it out.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And how do you see the analytics then?
Are you able to for the hashtagthat they're posting about?
Can you see anybody that lookedup the home buyer 101 for you?
Or is it just in general thatyou see those numbers, because I
know I've seen that that's theamount of views that hashtag?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean you can see how many people are
searching it.
But also if you can go to yourinsights for example, on a reel,
you can see if you havefollowers finding your reel or
non-followers.
And now I get notifications onFacebook and Instagram that says
so and so has followed you fromyour reel, so that I can see at
least helpful to know.
(16:12):
Ok, well, maybe something I putin that reel, that hashtag was
helpful, so then I'll go backand kind of examine it.
But if you can go into yourinsights, there's so much
information in there in yourInstagram that shows you a
little bit of detail.
I'm not sure about the hashtags, I've never seen that, but just
like you said, you're right,you can see how many people are
following a certain hashtag.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, and you talked about Google going away.
If you're using a hashtag, it'skind of a really concrete way
in which to find information.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Right, it is.
You don't have to worry aboutbeing the first one at the top.
So with hashtags, it's just aneasily identifiable way for
people to get a hold of you.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
OK, so I think one of the things that allows people
these sound like great ideas andthen they sound like so simple
but social has this negativeconnotation for a lot of
individuals whether it's scary.
What are some of the commonmisconceptions about social
media and what are some of thehighlights that you would like
(17:07):
to make about it?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, first, if you were a spot on, it has had this
negative feeling with it foryears of you know people were
posting, you know, selfies, likethat was a thing, these selfies
, and so people would think ofsocial media as some type of
photo that you put up and thatwas it, or it was just about
pretty photos.
And so I think there's stillthis unconscious thought that
(17:30):
people have that social media isjust for attention, it's for
like, just getting attention.
Well, you know what it is forattention?
In a way, because we want toattract people right now,
ourselves, our product.
Now, what I would say to peopleis it's not something that
should be looked at as anegative.
It should be looked at as youtrying to engage people, you
(17:54):
trying to gain, like a billboardyou see billboards all over
your city is, but it has adifferent feel than, say, social
media.
Well, the difference is thatthat connotation is just a
different perspective.
So, the more that we all getcomfortable with social media,
the more we see people gettingbusiness, clients etc.
(18:15):
From, let's just say, instagram, the more comfortable we are
with it.
And I guess for me, the way thatI became comfortable was if I'm
putting out education for free.
You know I'm not paying for abillboard, I'm not paying for a
magazine.
I'm putting out education forfree to help someone.
And if that means showing myface so that people know who it
(18:37):
is that's helping, so be it.
The moment people can get overyou know, basically, having this
big mirror looking back at you,you know the reason that you
utilize that is so peoplerecognize your face.
You know what I mean, becauseif you're giving out this
information and you're justbehind a computer, you're not
going to get any sales, you'renot going to connect with
(18:57):
individuals.
So for me, I think if you comeat it as like a education or
helping people or engaging withother like minded individuals,
it's a lot easier to get overthat, that nervousness.
In my opinion.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I think that that's really true.
What advice would you givepeople that haven't really
embraced the social like how dothey get started without making
it feel like a completelyoverwhelming task to take on?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know it's daunting because it's paralysis
by analysis.
Right, there's so manydifferent platforms.
There's so many differentalgorithms.
My advice is to start with oneplatform, start with one, make
your profile public and startwith your pillars.
What are three things I reallyjust want to talk about?
(19:47):
What are three things that Ican put out in the world to help
people and challenge yourselfto do maybe one of those pillars
a week and just hold yourselfaccountable?
One of the things that I reallyhad to get over, stephanie, that
I was.
Just it was costing me time.
It was just exhausting with.
I wanted my reel to be perfect.
I didn't want any flubbups.
(20:07):
I didn't want anything to comeoff where I didn't know what I
was talking about or I had tolook down at a piece of paper.
What would happen is I wouldrecord it 10 times and never use
it.
But the most authentic videosthat you put out there are just.
They don't have to be long.
They could be 20 seconds longgiving one piece of advice and
just keeping it.
As my friend says, simple,stupid.
Pretend you're talking to afourth grader, because you know,
(20:32):
in our business, for example,of mortgage and real estate,
it's really easy for us to juststart spitting things out and
feeling like we have to justgive all this information in a
video.
But if you can just narrow itdown, focus on you know, one
platform, one topic.
Just try it in one take.
It's a lot easier to digestbecause otherwise you're just
(20:52):
putting so much pressure onyourself.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Well, and people don't have time to really sit
and listen, so having those longvideos aren't really a good
thing anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Right, and it's what?
8.3, I'm sorry, 3.8 seconds,before someone scrolls again.
So you know 8 seconds.
So that could be an old stat.
We know things change, butthat's the last I heard is
that's how much attention youhave to grab.
I feel like it should beshorter If I know it's like one,
two, one, you know, but I'mlike, oh, no, yeah, not a dog,
no.
But it's like don't, don't getso into the weeds, just be
(21:26):
yourself and keep it short andsweet.
You talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You were recording a lot.
You know you were doing 10takes.
Do you utilize any tools tohelp you edit or to improve your
posts once you make them?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, so there were some comments that when you make
a reel, for example, within theplatform that you're using, it
can be seen more.
It can be Instagram would seethat you're using all the tools
within it, so then it would plugit more.
Now I can't say whether that'strue or false, but I kept that
in the back of my head.
Okay, if I edit it in there,just a thought.
(22:01):
But I think there's somethingthat I use that's called
captions.
Have you ever heard of captions?
I have, so that is reallyuser-friendly when it comes to
recording, and then it gets ridof any breaks or pauses.
It adds the caption.
You can even change thelanguage, you can change the law
.
I was having coffee with a titlecompany last week and he's like
(22:24):
Kayla, we can change it so thatif someone's in the office and
we are not, let's just say,great at speaking Spanish we can
record this and put it back tothem, so even using it.
For that was really cool tohear.
They even have this thing,stephanie, where it looks like
you're looking at the screen,but you're looking at your phone
reading, so you can't tell thatyou're glancing down.
(22:46):
It's crazy.
It's amazing what they do, butI think captions is like 10
bucks a month.
That's probably one of theeasiest ones to utilize.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
That's good tips for everyone listening today as we
close out and look are there anylast pieces of advice that you
would give, whether that'ssomebody that hasn't fully
embraced it, that's resistant,or looking to make that mark
next year, as we really need toget back to the basics and make
sure we're relevant in front ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
All I can think of when I think of social media is
there's that thought of okay,you're just posting, you're
posting, you're posting, andit's more than that.
The one takeaway that I wouldwant to leave with people is
that social media is supposed tobe social.
You should be not just posting,you should be engaging with
(23:37):
people.
You should be commenting,liking, sharing, asking for a
Zoom coffee, reaching out tothose in your industry.
I can't tell you how many timesthat I've connected with people
in my industry because I likedtheir photo of their child or I
asked which doggie daycare theytook their fur baby to.
It's literally like younetworking just within social.
(24:01):
If you're thinking that youshould just post and then X out,
you're doing it wrong.
You'll want to make sure thatyou engage, because content is
what creates those conversations.
You just have to make sure thatyou are enforcing them and that
you're putting in the effort toengage with people as well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think that you couldn't have said that any
better.
I really think that, even asyou spoke about it being
intimidating, being able torelate to people you don't have
to fake or think about liking,engaging, commenting or asking
questions really allows you tobe yourself and almost get
started dipping the toe in.
You can do it backwards.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and that's just it too.
You know what it's like whensomeone makes a comment on your
posts Like great topic, I reallylearned a lot, versus even a
like it really touches your soula little bit Like wow, I'm
providing something good andthat comment can go a long way.
And so I try to be a little bitmore aware.
When I comment, like I want itto be genuine and from me.
(25:03):
And you know, you just neverknow where that conversation
will go.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't want you to do a good job at that, because
you did it to one of mine and Iwas like, oh, that was so sweet.
Oh, I'm so glad.
So good job and kudos to you,kayla.
Thank you so much for today.
I hope that our listeners talka lot from it.
I know that I did, and I evenuse it today, but not enough.
So thank you so much foreverything you provided us.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Thank you for having me.
I can't wait to hear about theamazing podcasts and things that
you guys do to help others aswell.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Thank you so much.
Have a good one.
Sure Thanks for listening.
For all the latest industryinsights, subscribe to Mortgage
Connects on Apple Stitcher,google Podcasts, spotify, amazon
Music or simply go tomortgageconnectscom.
Hello everybody and welcome to Mortgage Connects.
I have Kayla Callender with metoday from First International
Bank Trust.
Kayla is known as the mortgagemeteorologist, helping prepare
clients for the uncertain andalways changing scenarios of
buying help.
Kayla is devoted to hermortgage clients and referral
partners, ensuring they receiveelite service, inspiring
(00:25):
education and constantcommunication throughout the
home loan journey.
She's an ad-bid social mediaconnector and loves the ability
to reach a multitude of peoplevirtually to create
relationships.
She enjoys the ability to coachclients through the psychology
and the purpose behind contentcreation.
Kayla is a radiance to any stageshe speaks on, as she
(00:46):
passionately shares sales andsocial media advice, from small
groups of her coffee to largegatherings on stage.
Kayla, I love so much of thatbio I can't even tell you
because first I love themeteorologist.
I was like that is the coolestway to say that.
Well, you got to stand outsomehow.
Yes, I love it and I love howmuch you're embracing, from a
(01:08):
social standpoint, even just tostart off based on your bio,
just the ability to create arelationship with somebody as
our world has evolved.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, and as it continues to evolve, it's
evergreen and always changing,and you never know where you're
going to connect with someonenext, and that could be social.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Thank you so much for being onwith MGRC today.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I am honored to be here.
I know I'm in great presence.
You guys always offer so mucheducation.
It's constantly in my email andpeople really look up to you
guys as a valid, trustworthyresource.
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you so much I heard about you through social,
so that's how, one of the wayswe got connected and through
your account manager, and Ithought what a great way to
exemplify the example ofutilizing social in a positive
way.
That can sometimes be reallyscary to people.
So let's just start with thebasics and say when did you
(02:04):
start using social and whichplatforms?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, I was one of the early adopters of LinkedIn.
So when I first started as amortgage loan officer, there was
this thing that I thought youknow what?
This is a way for me to postclosings and post celebrations
and education, and a lot of thetimes I was posting just the
closings or congratulations andwhat I noticed was happening and
(02:28):
this is back, stephanie, inlike 2014, I noticed that I
would go out and I'd be out andabout in the community and
someone would say, oh, you'rethe LinkedIn girl.
And it hit me then that peopleknew what my job was and what I
was doing.
That I didn't even know.
I thought that we could haverelied on Facebook and Instagram
, but it felt more personal atthe time those platforms.
(02:50):
So what I was discovering at ayoung age gosh, nine years ago
was the powerful tool thatLinkedIn had, and so that's
where I first started mytechnical, my social media
journey.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So way back, I wouldn't have guessed that.
But what I read I was thinkingabout the question I was like,
oh, I wonder what she's going tosay.
So that's really cool.
I know that it's such a greatway to grow connections and,
like you said, the way that yourlittle web grows without you
even knowing people.
You almost feel like you knowsomebody sometimes before you
even meet and you're like, ohyeah, oh wait, I didn't really
(03:25):
see you.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well and some of us compare it, we talked before
others you know people in social.
It's like you almost feel likewhen you see someone on social
they're a celebrity until youmeet them.
Although it's not likecelebrity status, you really get
to know somebody because you'reseeing everything they do.
But what's really cool aboutthat is you can walk up to
someone and feel like you'veknown them forever and talk
about their dogs or theirchildren, and it's such an easy
(03:49):
segue to just start a businessor a relationship with someone
because they already know you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yes, I really really like that and I like the aspect
of kind of getting to knowpeople.
It can be intimidating to meetpeople, so being able to make
that almost immediate connection, like we both have dogs, I mean
that's.
It's simple, as it is Very cool.
When you talk about platforms,and LinkedIn being the first one
, are there others that you'reutilizing either more so today
(04:16):
instead of and, and why?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah.
So I leaned into Instagramquite a bit and then came TikTok
.
So one of the reasons that I'veleaned most heavily into
Instagram was because I likedall of the things that it
offered.
It combines so many platformsinto one.
You've got your posting ofpictures or solid, just general,
(04:40):
to kind of like your story oryour grid.
That's kind of like Facebook.
Right, you've got stories inthere, like Snapchat.
You can do reels, like TikTok,and on top of it you can have a
link at the top of your screen,just like LinkedIn.
So what I love about Instagramis you get all of these
platforms, it seems, like, intoone.
So that's what I've beenleaning heavily into myself.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Are you still utilizing the others or you're
pretty much predominantlyfocusing, because I know there
is connections to other ones?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
you know, like when you post one place at almost
like Cascades, do you just useone versus the other now, or I
use them all because it's alldifferent audiences, different
people, and so because I startedLinkedIn so heavily right away,
I have more followers there.
Instagram I can reach differenttarget markets, just like TikTok
I feel like people go to, and Ithink I read a survey I think
(05:30):
Kristen Messerly had a Gen Zarticle come out that 70% of
people go to Instagram to search, and it makes me think Google
might not even be an option inthe future, because people are
really leaning into theseplatforms to go and search
things, whether it's you'relooking for how to do your nails
for Halloween, or maybe you'relooking for tips to be a home
(05:52):
buyer, so there's all of theseways to search.
So I feel like I'm leaningheavily into Instagram and
TikTok for Reels, but alsoleaning into LinkedIn for
education, and, of course, Icross post on all of them, even
to the point of posting on myFacebook page too, because we've
all had Facebook since what youknow, the over, the years 2004
(06:14):
or something.
Yeah so you've got connectionsthere, or maybe you post your
story.
So you really just there's noright or wrong answer, it's what
works for you.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You know it's a way to think about something, but
everyone being, it used to be aGoogle search away, but now it
is just a search.
And how are you beingrepresented on the platforms
that you're on and are youtelling the right story to the
people that you want to?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
see it Right.
And then you have to thinkabout it's who's following this,
who is going to be seeing thisthe most, and that's where you
decide what you put out there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So it's probably a two-fold question, but are there
others that you foresee usingin the future, or is it?
You know, where you're at rightnow seems like a good solution,
and as we continue to evolveand new ones come out there, you
may adjust them.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's a great question .
I think everyone is a littleresistant to change, right?
You know it's like, oh gosh, Ihave to learn something new now,
and gosh, we already have allthese platforms.
But I think YouTube and YouTubeshorts is something that most
people should get into.
So, like, if I'm on, you know,certain podcasts, will you know,
plug it there.
But essentially it's a way forpeople to search.
It's a way for people to goback and watch or be educated.
(07:19):
I think that everything else isgoing to just be ever changing,
right?
Instagram is going to come outtomorrow with a different
algorithm for all we know, andso I I'm leaning into the ones
that I already know, but beingvery open and optimistic about
the ones that maybe I couldlearn more about, and that would
be YouTube.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Okay, and for for others out there.
For when you talk about YouTubeshorts, is that any different
than the regular YouTube?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
No, it's essentially built within YouTube, so instead
of searching, you know, longform video, this would be short,
so that it's kind of like whenyou're on TikTok and Instagram
and you're scrolling.
That's where the shorts wouldlie, so that's kind of where I
would want to lean.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Okay, that makes sense, and we talked about
advancements in technology andwhere to look at.
You and I have talked brieflyabout chat GPT, but can you tell
me a little bit about how youfeel about it and how it could
relate to our industry?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, chat GPT is something that I feel it's a
really easy thing to use onceyou start using it.
But it's really easy to takeout your own genuine, authentic
creativity and so you'll seepeople.
You know, I've heard people thatrecently had a conversation
with someone that they said thatone of their clients that they
(08:33):
coach used chat GPT to define,like, their goals.
And it's like there's such away that you can use this for
the better that if you're notusing it the right way, it's
only going to hurt you.
And so I will use chat GPT, forexample, if I am teaching a
course on social media and I'msaying, you know, I know what I
want to talk about, but maybe Ijust need to get some creativity
(08:55):
flowing.
Or maybe I want to know whatare some issues people have,
maybe that I'm not even aware of.
So I will use it as somethingto kind of spur some ideas.
But if you're truly copying andpasting, people on the other
end will be able to know.
But it is a useful tool forreally like just kind of
breaking that barrier, of kindof being stuck is how I feel
(09:16):
it's beneficial.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It's a jumping point right, like you can use it to
not be so stuck and unable.
I think for me, being a listmaker and a ridiculous like
perfectionist, that I'm likesometimes terrified to start
things right, but once, if youhave a way to get your brain
starting to think about how itcan really resonate for you, it
(09:38):
makes it less intimidating.
I think that's just.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's a roadmap, it's a starting point, and I think
that's what most people havedifficulties with in their life
is just starting.
So it can be useful for you theright way.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, I like that.
Let's pivot back a little bitmore to social media and some of
those channels.
What pillars do you talk alittle bit about?
Education and connection.
What pillars do you utilizewhen you focus on posting?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Pillars are something that I think people just it's
such a simple tool to use butthey don't think about it when
you're wondering because guesswhat?
We just talked about gettingstuck.
This is the same way.
When people go to post, it'sthis thing where they feel stuck
.
They're like I don't know whatto post.
I don't know what people wantto know about real estate.
(10:25):
So for me, what we do everysingle time, that I probably
quarterly I'll look at this, butI will have pillars.
What are pillars?
Those are things that I want totalk about.
For example, if I want to knowsomething's working.
For a while I was posting onFargo, north Dakota, weather,
mortgage and my dogs, becausethose are the things that I
(10:49):
could poke fun at our weatherPeople didn't really understand
how cold it was.
Then mortgage, obviously,because that's what I do and
what I'm passionate about, butby also implementing my dogs for
rescue dogs.
That's just something peopledon't typically see.
But you can connect with otherswhen you talk about these
things.
So I would rotate a mortgagereel, a reel about the weather,
(11:11):
a reel about dogs.
What I would do is I would playwith those and see if I
connected with people more or ifI got more engagement, then
what I would do is maybe I wouldtake out maybe the Fargo
weather piece, and now I'm goingto talk about our late cabin,
because people want to know whathappens in the state of
Minnesota on vacation, so justthings like that.
So by having your pillars,maybe it's your kids, maybe
(11:32):
you're a soccer coach, maybe onthe side you play adult
volleyball league those thingsallow you to connect, because
Stephanie sometimes the bestconnections or your next client
is not at your job, it could beat your local restaurant, it
could be at your kids, like Isaid, soccer game.
So by having these pillars andposting about them, people feel
(11:56):
like they get to know youwithout necessarily being right
in front of you at that soccergame.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Exactly right.
So when you do that, you'reable to do more of what works
for you and where yourengagement really is.
I love that you look at that ona quarterly basis, because then
you're not just doing itbecause you said you're going to
do it.
You're really doing whatmatters Right, or at least make
an impact.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
You're humanizing yourself, you're making yourself
as a human.
I'm just not Kayla thismortgage lender.
I'm Kayla who is married andlives here and has these dogs.
I really like this type of food.
You just get to know people andthose are your pillars.
So I think just looking atthose and testing them out is
really helpful to just gettingstarted.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Now, is there a certain time that you recommend
posting them?
Does that vary per platform?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I think it varies per platform and what kind of
audience.
So whether you're looking atlike a Gen Z or millennial, or
maybe you're in law and you'reposting something about you work
with, maybe retired people orjust depends on your audience.
But the algorithms that I'velooked into have always shown
that in the mornings you get themost connections.
(13:05):
Weekends not as much, becausepeople aren't really scrolling.
So it just kind of depends.
I play around with it.
Sometimes I have good luck at 530 in the morning, sometimes
not at all.
So it truly depends.
But I would say Instagram wouldbe kind of early mornings.
I would say, in my opinion,tiktok maybe between like 9 and
11.
But again, it just depends onthat day, depends on the day in
(13:28):
the audience.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So don't get stuck in a.
I have to do it every day at 530.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, and there's a cool feature where you can auto
set it.
So before they had this, Iwould be like getting up early
in the morning, like if I was uplate and I couldn't get a
workout in, I'd set my alarm sothat I could post at 5 30.
Where now you can set it whereyou don't have to be if you
can't get up.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
What?
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
I think that everyone's alwayslooking for not necessarily a
shortcut, but whether there'shacks or there's different tools
in which to post that make thisa little bit more simplistic,
do you guys know us, and whatare they?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
For Instagram, you can go and set in your advanced
settings.
For example, you can go in andput to schedule a reel, so you
can get it together.
It's all good to go.
You've got the reel, you've gotall the editing, you've got the
hashtags, the content, thedialogue, and then you can put
schedule for tomorrow at 2 PM.
That way you don't have to beon top of it and you can
(14:25):
schedule those out and it'struly just one simple tool in
your advanced settings.
And that is Uber helpful and sosome of the other platforms
have that as well.
If you just go into thescheduled part, dive in there
and just give yourself a breakso you can have a little gray,
so you don't always have toremember.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You're talking about hashtags.
Do you find that those work and, if so, how many should people
utilize?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's funny.
I watched a reel the other dayand someone was asking do you
still use hashtags?
And they were saying it doesn'twork and some were saying it
does.
So I find it's helpful Becauseif someone's looking, I'm just
going to use this home buying101.
They might still go searchthose hashtags.
So if I'm putting that to mypost, I'm just helping out the
(15:10):
actual ability for that reel orpost to be seen.
Now I attended social con in LAback in April and one of the
things that we talked about wasnot having too many hashtags and
it feels like there's alwaysthis algorithm you're trying to
understand.
But for me I say use them, use10 to 12 and see where it goes
(15:30):
and the pillars use those, seeif people gain traction and just
test it out.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And how do you see the analytics then?
Are you able to for the hashtagthat they're posting about?
Can you see anybody that lookedup the home buyer 101 for you?
Or is it just in general thatyou see those numbers, because I
know I've seen that that's theamount of views that hashtag?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean you can see how many people are
searching it.
But also if you can go to yourinsights for example, on a reel,
you can see if you havefollowers finding your reel or
non-followers.
And now I get notifications onFacebook and Instagram that says
so and so has followed you fromyour reel, so that I can see at
least helpful to know.
(16:12):
Ok, well, maybe something I putin that reel, that hashtag was
helpful, so then I'll go backand kind of examine it.
But if you can go into yourinsights, there's so much
information in there in yourInstagram that shows you a
little bit of detail.
I'm not sure about the hashtags, I've never seen that, but just
like you said, you're right,you can see how many people are
following a certain hashtag.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, and you talked about Google going away.
If you're using a hashtag, it'skind of a really concrete way
in which to find information.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Right, it is.
You don't have to worry aboutbeing the first one at the top.
So with hashtags, it's just aneasily identifiable way for
people to get a hold of you.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
OK, so I think one of the things that allows people
these sound like great ideas andthen they sound like so simple
but social has this negativeconnotation for a lot of
individuals whether it's scary.
What are some of the commonmisconceptions about social
media and what are some of thehighlights that you would like
(17:07):
to make about it?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, first, if you were a spot on, it has had this
negative feeling with it foryears of you know people were
posting, you know, selfies, likethat was a thing, these selfies
, and so people would think ofsocial media as some type of
photo that you put up and thatwas it, or it was just about
pretty photos.
And so I think there's stillthis unconscious thought that
(17:30):
people have that social media isjust for attention, it's for
like, just getting attention.
Well, you know what it is forattention?
In a way, because we want toattract people right now,
ourselves, our product.
Now, what I would say to peopleis it's not something that
should be looked at as anegative.
It should be looked at as youtrying to engage people, you
(17:54):
trying to gain, like a billboardyou see billboards all over
your city is, but it has adifferent feel than, say, social
media.
Well, the difference is thatthat connotation is just a
different perspective.
So, the more that we all getcomfortable with social media,
the more we see people gettingbusiness, clients etc.
(18:15):
From, let's just say, instagram, the more comfortable we are
with it.
And I guess for me, the way thatI became comfortable was if I'm
putting out education for free.
You know I'm not paying for abillboard, I'm not paying for a
magazine.
I'm putting out education forfree to help someone.
And if that means showing myface so that people know who it
(18:37):
is that's helping, so be it.
The moment people can get overyou know, basically, having this
big mirror looking back at you,you know the reason that you
utilize that is so peoplerecognize your face.
You know what I mean, becauseif you're giving out this
information and you're justbehind a computer, you're not
going to get any sales, you'renot going to connect with
(18:57):
individuals.
So for me, I think if you comeat it as like a education or
helping people or engaging withother like minded individuals,
it's a lot easier to get overthat, that nervousness.
In my opinion.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I think that that's really true.
What advice would you givepeople that haven't really
embraced the social like how dothey get started without making
it feel like a completelyoverwhelming task to take on?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know it's daunting because it's paralysis
by analysis.
Right, there's so manydifferent platforms.
There's so many differentalgorithms.
My advice is to start with oneplatform, start with one, make
your profile public and startwith your pillars.
What are three things I reallyjust want to talk about?
(19:47):
What are three things that Ican put out in the world to help
people and challenge yourselfto do maybe one of those pillars
a week and just hold yourselfaccountable?
One of the things that I reallyhad to get over, stephanie, that
I was.
Just it was costing me time.
It was just exhausting with.
I wanted my reel to be perfect.
I didn't want any flubbups.
(20:07):
I didn't want anything to comeoff where I didn't know what I
was talking about or I had tolook down at a piece of paper.
What would happen is I wouldrecord it 10 times and never use
it.
But the most authentic videosthat you put out there are just.
They don't have to be long.
They could be 20 seconds longgiving one piece of advice and
just keeping it.
As my friend says, simple,stupid.
Pretend you're talking to afourth grader, because you know,
(20:32):
in our business, for example,of mortgage and real estate,
it's really easy for us to juststart spitting things out and
feeling like we have to justgive all this information in a
video.
But if you can just narrow itdown, focus on you know, one
platform, one topic.
Just try it in one take.
It's a lot easier to digestbecause otherwise you're just
(20:52):
putting so much pressure onyourself.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Well, and people don't have time to really sit
and listen, so having those longvideos aren't really a good
thing anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Right, and it's what?
8.3, I'm sorry, 3.8 seconds,before someone scrolls again.
So you know 8 seconds.
So that could be an old stat.
We know things change, butthat's the last I heard is
that's how much attention youhave to grab.
I feel like it should beshorter If I know it's like one,
two, one, you know, but I'mlike, oh, no, yeah, not a dog,
no.
But it's like don't, don't getso into the weeds, just be
(21:26):
yourself and keep it short andsweet.
You talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You were recording a lot.
You know you were doing 10takes.
Do you utilize any tools tohelp you edit or to improve your
posts once you make them?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, so there were some comments that when you make
a reel, for example, within theplatform that you're using, it
can be seen more.
It can be Instagram would seethat you're using all the tools
within it, so then it would plugit more.
Now I can't say whether that'strue or false, but I kept that
in the back of my head.
Okay, if I edit it in there,just a thought.
(22:01):
But I think there's somethingthat I use that's called
captions.
Have you ever heard of captions?
I have, so that is reallyuser-friendly when it comes to
recording, and then it gets ridof any breaks or pauses.
It adds the caption.
You can even change thelanguage, you can change the law
.
I was having coffee with a titlecompany last week and he's like
(22:24):
Kayla, we can change it so thatif someone's in the office and
we are not, let's just say,great at speaking Spanish we can
record this and put it back tothem, so even using it.
For that was really cool tohear.
They even have this thing,stephanie, where it looks like
you're looking at the screen,but you're looking at your phone
reading, so you can't tell thatyou're glancing down.
(22:46):
It's crazy.
It's amazing what they do, butI think captions is like 10
bucks a month.
That's probably one of theeasiest ones to utilize.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
That's good tips for everyone listening today as we
close out and look are there anylast pieces of advice that you
would give, whether that'ssomebody that hasn't fully
embraced it, that's resistant,or looking to make that mark
next year, as we really need toget back to the basics and make
sure we're relevant in front ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
All I can think of when I think of social media is
there's that thought of okay,you're just posting, you're
posting, you're posting, andit's more than that.
The one takeaway that I wouldwant to leave with people is
that social media is supposed tobe social.
You should be not just posting,you should be engaging with
(23:37):
people.
You should be commenting,liking, sharing, asking for a
Zoom coffee, reaching out tothose in your industry.
I can't tell you how many timesthat I've connected with people
in my industry because I likedtheir photo of their child or I
asked which doggie daycare theytook their fur baby to.
It's literally like younetworking just within social.
(24:01):
If you're thinking that youshould just post and then X out,
you're doing it wrong.
You'll want to make sure thatyou engage, because content is
what creates those conversations.
You just have to make sure thatyou are enforcing them and that
you're putting in the effort toengage with people as well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think that you couldn't have said that any
better.
I really think that, even asyou spoke about it being
intimidating, being able torelate to people you don't have
to fake or think about liking,engaging, commenting or asking
questions really allows you tobe yourself and almost get
started dipping the toe in.
You can do it backwards.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and that's just it too.
You know what it's like whensomeone makes a comment on your
posts Like great topic, I reallylearned a lot, versus even a
like it really touches your soula little bit Like wow, I'm
providing something good andthat comment can go a long way.
And so I try to be a little bitmore aware.
When I comment, like I want itto be genuine and from me.
(25:03):
And you know, you just neverknow where that conversation
will go.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't want you to do a good job at that, because
you did it to one of mine and Iwas like, oh, that was so sweet.
Oh, I'm so glad.
So good job and kudos to you,kayla.
Thank you so much for today.
I hope that our listeners talka lot from it.
I know that I did, and I evenuse it today, but not enough.
So thank you so much foreverything you provided us.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Thank you for having me.
I can't wait to hear about theamazing podcasts and things that
you guys do to help others aswell.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Thank you so much.
Have a good one.
Sure Thanks for listening.
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