May 8, 2023 • 43 mins
There's a field of academic study that sits at the intersection of geology and fashion, and that's gemology: the study of gemstones. Identifying, categorising and grading gemstones is a specific skillset, but valuation can be more subjective, particularly when it comes to regional variances such as with the inordinate popularity of jade in China. Christina Chao is a gemologist and jewellery designer in Shanghai, who is passionate about translating the science of gems into the art of jewels. And as she describes in today's episode, that's a skill she often puts into practice when advising nervous men looking for engagement rings for their girlfriends. Or indeed nervous podcasters who don't know the first thing about gemstones. The episode also includes a catch-up interview with: Vy Vu from Season 01 Episode 08 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-08-vy-vu 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 02:40 - Part 1 25:46 - Part 2 35:34 - Outro 39:11 - Catch-Up Interview Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at: https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-20-christina-chao Join the community: Instagram https://instagram.com/oscology LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina Facebook https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
[Trailer]OF: So you can tell a terrible diamond from
a good one, but it's harder to tell a goodone from a great one.
CC (00:07):
Oh, that's exactly it. Oh you’re so good.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
If I said to you that there’s some kindof overlap between geology and fashion, would
(00:28):
you immediately realise what I’m talkingabout? I’m talking about gemology, which
I guess you could call the science of bling.In today’s episode, I’m speaking with
Christina Chao, who is a gemologist, and inmy interview with her I could have talked
more about the fashion side of her work, butinstead I chose to focus more on the geology
(00:53):
side. There are two reasons for this, thefirst one being that given a choice, I’m
personally much more comfortable talking aboutthe geeky side of things rather than the fashionable
side. Just take one look at me, and that shouldbe clear. But the second reason is that I’ve
already interviewed a jewellery designer onthe show, that was Angie Wu from Season 01
(01:18):
Episode 18. Since that conversation was moreabout Angie’s artistry, I wanted to take
a very different tack in my conversation withChristina.
So I’m saying all this for three reasons.Firstly, to remind you about Angie’s episode,
so that you can listen back to that as anaccompaniment to today’s show; secondly
(01:40):
to reassure others on the same end of thegeek spectrum as me that you shouldn’t be
scared of today’s episode, I promise you’regoing to find it both interesting and fun;
and thirdly to apologise to Christina forfocusing our chat more on her science rather
than her art. And while I’m apologising,let me also mention that very near the end
(02:04):
of our recording, something strange happenedfor a short time to Christina’s microphone
in the studio, not once but twice, and I losther side of the conversation. I’ve done
my best in the edit to salvage what she saidby turning up the volume on what got picked
up from her on my microphone. It’s reallyright at the end, so by the time you get to
(02:29):
it you’ll probably have forgotten all aboutthis apology. In which case, maybe I should
be apologising for wasting your time withthese apologies.
[Part 1]OF: We are ready to start. Hello Christina.
Hi Oscar! OF
start. I can just tell from your voice thatyou're in a good mood. Is that right?
(02:51):
Yeah, of course. Always. OF
In one sentence, what would you say that youdo here in China?
So I'm a gemologist certified by GIA. I design custom pieces for people, and make
their jewellery dreams come true.OF: Make the jewellery dreams come true. The
first question I ask everyone sitting in thatchair is, what object did you bring that in
(03:14):
some way typifies your life here in China?CC: I brought my phone.
OF (03:18):
Your phone. CC
So this is a very ‘route one’ object, I must say. What does the phone mean to you?
CC (03:25):
I feel like in China, literally our life here is dependent on our phone. My business
is done a lot over the phone. So the phonebasically is my life right now.
OF (03:35):
Mm-hm. CC
for maybe just a week at a time. That wouldbe nice.
Of course, you might have brought that object if we were doing ‘Mosaic of LA’
or ‘Mosaic of Nairobi’. But there's justsomething about phones in China where it's
that much more important.CC: Yeah. And it goes to the efficiency of
(03:56):
China, right?OF: Well, you remind me of the first person
who ever used the phone as their object. Andthat was Tom Barker, who was the Kiwi diplomat
- so, from New Zealand - and he was sayingthere is a privacy aspect which you have to
also keep in mind. How necessary it is, andat the same time how we lose a little bit
of privacy…CC: Yes.
(04:16):
… In some aspects, more than in other countries, right?
CC (04:18):
For sure. OF
I feel like they know exactly what I'm doing, where I am, at all times.
OF (04:24):
Yes. Whoever ‘they’ might be. CC
Well, you said right at the beginning that you are a gemologist. Let me be honest
with you, I very rarely wear jewellery. Infact, I probably only own one piece of jewellery,
which is my wedding ring. So you're talkingto somebody who is completely uninitiated
into your world, which means that I have thecarte blanche to ask you all the most stupid
(04:45):
questions that perhaps others would neverask you.
CC (04:48):
There are no stupid questions. OF
So, gemology is the study of gemstones. How they form, how we value them, how we appraise
them. It's a very scientific understandingof why gems have the values that they have.
OF (05:06):
Let me go to the most fundamental piece about this. Why do we put such value on these
rocks?CC: I think there are two things. One is,
they are a natural resource. It's a commodity,where there's a finite number. Added to that,
they're really beautiful to look at. So Ithink that speaks to some people about wanting
(05:27):
to be able to have that, and share it withthose around them. The second thing touches
upon our nature for consumption.OF: Mm-hm. I feel like I'm putting you on
the spot, right? Because in the hierarchyof things we need, jewellery is way way down.
CC (05:42):
Exactly, yeah. OF
I totally agree with that. I mean, I think when the pandemic first started, I really
felt that - in my industry, right - jewelleryis not a basic necessity. So when the macro
environment is so uncertain, what do peopledo? People try to go for the necessities first.
And my industry, I think, was one of the onesthat felt it.
OF (06:02):
And did that actually impinge onto the way that you feel, like “What is my worth?”
Like, “What am I doing this for?” Like,did that have that effect on you?
CC (06:09):
Definitely. It was always a topic I felt morally conflicted about. Because the industry
is very glitzy and luxurious, and all basedon consumption. Granted, yes, the jewellery
pieces I make for my clients, they alwaysappreciate it. And I'm celebrating a milestone
with them. So that, in a way, is very fulfilling.However, I think for greater society, I always
(06:31):
question “Is there something more I cando?
OF (06:34):
Mmm. Well, let me give you an ‘out’ here. Because in the pandemic, what did we
all turn to? We turned to things like Netflix- the entertainment side - which maybe you
take for granted, and you think it's justsuperficial. But the things that made us happy
during those really hard times were important.CC: Oh, that is a really nice way of putting
it, yeah.OF: Right? Well, I don't want to go too far
(06:55):
from that initial question about gemology.It's got an ‘ology’, so it's something
which you have to study?CC: Yes. I went to school for six months at
GIA in Carlsbad, California.OF: Oh, I know Carlsbad.
CC (07:05):
Oh my god, it's such a beautiful beach town. It's just nice and relaxing.
OF (07:10):
And that's where you're from, or..? CC
is.OF: OK.
CC (07:15):
So that's where I stayed for six months. From 8am to 3pm, every day, all we did was
study gems. You have to get the gems right100% to pass and get the certificate.
OF (07:24):
Mm-hm. CC
But before that, you know, I was in the jewelleryindustry already. I was working at Cartier
China after graduating college.OF: OK, so it wasn't out of the blue that
you landed on this profession.CC: No, it was not. I started working when
I was 16. And I knew I wanted to be in theluxury and fashion industry. It was just something
(07:44):
that I always loved. Luckily enough, I graduatedearly from college, got an internship with
Cartier China, they hired me as a full timeemployee one month in, and I started my career
in jewellery.OF: Wow. You've mentioned your education,
so that makes me think about the connectionyou had with a previous guest from last season,
(08:05):
Douglon Tse.CC: Yes.
Let me play what he said about you. [Start of Audio Clip]
DT (08:09):
I recommend someone I've known for many years, her name is Christina Chao. I went
to high school with her, and she started herown company doing gems and diamonds.
[End of Audio Clip]CC: Yeah.
OF (08:19):
Tell me about your connection to Douglon then.
CC (08:21):
So I've known him for over a decade. And obviously, we went to high school together,
a small high school in Massachusetts, rightoutside of Boston.
OF (08:29):
Mmm. CC
a manager for these teams. So he was on thewrestling team that I managed. This baby Douglon,
you know. He's about three years younger thanme.
Oh, right. CC
lot.OF: So I guess you still think of him as you’re
little baby brother.CC: He’s definitely stuck in that, in my
mind. He's younger than my own younger brother.So I'm like “Oh, Douglon."
(08:52):
OK. So that was high school times. CC
Well then let's fast forward again. So you said that you had your first job in Cartier
in China, tell me about that time.CC: I loved my experience there, I think.
Landing that job out of college was such adream come true. I had worked since I was
(09:13):
16 to get this dream job, and when you achieveit at age 20, and you work for them for four
years, you feel like “Is there more forme? Is there something else I can try?”
And that was my personal conflict at 25.OF: Mmm. OK, so you did work with them for
a good few years though.CC: I did, I did. I had different functions
(09:34):
with them, starting with marketing, and thencustomer relationship management, ultimately
ending doing operations, strategic planning,and high jewellery events. So that's actually
what led me to become even more interestedin gemology. I was looking at these pieces
being sold for millions of dollars, and Ididn't understand why. So I wanted to have
(09:57):
a more professional understanding. And soI went to GIA.
And ‘GIA’ stands for what? CC
are a neutral third party grading companythat evaluates diamonds and gemstones.
Mm-hm. CC
scale.OF: Four Cs?
CC (10:18):
Colour, carat, clarity and cut. OF
So there's a way to numerically organise that into prices.
OF (10:25):
So for example, of those four Cs, which is the easiest one? Colour, right? You can
tell that straight away.CC: Colour is a little tricky, no. Because
it's on a scale from D to Z, and every colouris just ever so slightly different.
Yes. CC
and it’s very difficult to tell what colourgrade they are. So the easiest, I think, would
(10:47):
be cut. Which is the shape of the diamond,plus how it's polished and how symmetrical
it is. Is it a cushion shape? Is it a roundshape? Is it a princess cut?
And so you're seeing them at a time where they've already been processed in some way
before it gets to your eyes.CC: For sure. I only deal with cut gems. Raw
gemstone dealing is a whole other sciencethat is too crazy.
(11:10):
Really? So when it comes to the cut then, someone has made a choice on cutting it in
a certain way based on the rock itself?CC: So when miners find a rough diamond, let's
just say. Diamonds are grown in octahedralshapes. So a round diamond, cutting from an
octahedral, will waste 50% of the rough.OF: Oh, so the round diamond will be more
(11:33):
expensive.CC: Yes.
Because of the waste involved in creating that shape.
CC (11:36):
Exactly. OF
But you're paying for a more rare diamond, because it's harder to cut in that shape,
right?OF: Mm-hm.
Let's take another shape. For example princess cut, which is a square-shaped diamond.
OF (11:50):
Aha. CC
And with that, obviously the price will bea little bit more favourable. However, the
shapes of diamonds and the way they sit ona person's hand is all personal preference.
Mm-hm. CC
people, I think, prefer rounds because itsymbolises unity. So generally when they propose,
(12:11):
they prefer round diamonds.OF: Mm-hm. And it just so happens that you
can charge more money for it too.CC: Yeah.
Oh dear, I'm bullying you now. Is it mainly those two shapes, then? Or what are the cuts
are there?CC: Oh no, there’s a tonne.
Go on. CC
top and bottom edges; there's Asscher cutwhich is square-ish; there’s radiant cut,
(12:33):
which has more facets so it tends to be verysparkly; there's a tonne. People get really
creative with it too, some will cut like tennisracquet shapes or Buddha head shapes.
Really? CC
There you go. I mean, this is obviously the passion that you had before. But presumably
it grew as you learnt more about itCC: Definitely, the more I learned about it,
the more I fell in love with it. I used tonever be a person for colour stones. And I
(12:58):
think they’re just so fun. There are somany different colours, and different combinations,
different region origins, and why they'refrom certain regions only, and how to make
synthetic ones, different processes of that.So cool.
OK, well you’ve touched upon other topics. So let me go to what you first said just there
about the colour stones (13:15):
emerald or sapphire, ruby, these are the colour stones, right?
CC (13:19):
Yes, correct. OF
kind of colour if you get a ruby from onepart of the world, versus another part of
the world?CC: Yeah, I mean really high-end rubies, they
call it the ‘pigeon blood’ red…OF: Pigeon blood red.
Yeah. OF
it…CC: It’s not a beautiful way, no. But it's
got this special highlighter red. But thispigeon blood red from Myanmar is specific
(13:44):
to that region.OF: Hmm.
OF (13:45):
Emeralds, right. So there's a specific mine - Muzo emerald - that have inclusions
that you can see that are different from otherregional emeralds from Brazil. Kashmir sapphires
from the mountain region of Kashmir. The pinkdiamond mine in Australia, there's just one
specific mine that produces the most beautiful,slightly reddish/pink diamonds. They've ran
(14:08):
out of supply, so there is no more of that.OF: And so who gets to decide which one is
the valuable one?CC: I think you just touched upon a really
good point. It is about scarcity, I thinkas it is with a lot of our natural resources,
like gas, coal. But a lot of times it's verysubjective, right? Colour stones - as the
name indicates - is based on colour, and colouris a very subjective thing.
(14:32):
Mmm. CC
jade command higher prices in China, becauseChinese people love jade.
I really am not a fan of jade. CC
I’ve been in Asia now for coming up to 19 years. I've been surrounded by jade.
And as an amateur, walking past the jewelleryshop I'm like “What is that green snot?”
(14:52):
I intrinsically don't see the value in it.What is it about jade in particular that is
so respected in China?CC: I think it has to do a lot with the Chinese
history, right? It goes way back, right?OF: Of course. Back to the Emperors, right?
CC (15:05):
Yeah. OF
You've explained the cut part. What were theother two Cs?
Carat size, which is how big the diamond is. Carat is equal to weight. Each carat is
about 0.2 grammes. That's just how we weighgemstones. And then we have clarity. Clarity
is how clean the inside of a gem is. Somegems like emeralds are very naturally included.
(15:31):
So you don't expect to find a perfectly cleangem. For diamonds, yes, there are flawless
gemstones where there's nothing inside. Andthose are actually the trickiest for us to
grade in the diamond labs.OF: Oh, I see.
We grade gems at 10x magnification. But with flawless diamonds, we literally go up
to like 50x, 70x, just to make sure that thatlittle piece of thing on the diamond is not
(15:55):
a dust particle. So those are the hardestto grade, you have to make sure there's actually
nothing there.OF: And you have learned how to differentiate
an inclusion versus a piece of dust.CC: Yes, we do. We go up and down on magnification;
we turn the gem around and around; we literallylook at every single facet on the gem.
OF (16:13):
Mm-hm. The more I hear about your studies, it sounds like an eyesight test more than
anything else. Let's talk about, then, howyou get your hands on these gemstones. How
does that even work?CC: So before the pandemic I used to travel
for jewellery shows, and that's usually whereI get a lot of my gems.
Aha. CC
Brazil, Africa, Thailand, Sri Lanka - they'llbring their gems to these shows. And it's
(16:39):
a centralised location where people like me- designers, retailers - can go to purchase
in wholesale bulk.OF: Yes.
CC (16:46):
These massive halls, one after the other, row after row after row. So you would spend,
like, 2-3 days walking down each row, comparingprices, comparing colours. They're actually
very similar to each other.OF: Yeah, totally.
Yeah. OF
just me in a market where there's fruit.CC: Yes.
OF (17:05):
But why should I buy an apple from this person versus that person? It comes down to
just the relationship you have with the vendor.CC: It's similar. It could be because I've
seen you at the show, we already have thisrelationship. Or I have better communication
with you. It's the same concept as when peoplewant to work with me. Like, why should they
come to me over another jewellery designer?There's so many. It's about the relationship
that you have; and the communication (17:25):
How easy it is to talk to each other; how well
do you understand what I need; and how wellcan you provide that?
OF (17:32):
The lighting must be intense. CC
Really? CC
gems look good, manipulating it to the bestof the gemstones’ colour.
Right. CC
if I pull a gemstone to the side where it'snot as light. Because you know, you have to
keep in mind, they’re booths.OF: Yes. And they have their own lighting…
CC (17:52):
Exactly. OF
light.CC: Exactly.
OF (17:54):
Hmm. What kind of scale are you buying these gems at then, at these places?
CC (17:58):
Sometimes it could be really little, I just want to test out certain shapes or colours,
a new design that I have in mind. With that,I'm able to choose exactly which stones I
want to keep.OF: The individual stones, right?
Exactly. We call it ‘pick price’ and ‘parcel price’. When it's a parcel price,
you just say “Oh, I want to pick up 10 carats.”And they give you…
OF (18:17):
A bag. CC
have. And it's a cheaper price. Pick priceis literally, you can sit there and pick through
individual gemstones from the batch they have.Most of the times I do pick price, just because
I'm quite picky on my colour combination.OF: Mmm. So what you're saying is, when you
buy in a bag, you don't look at each individualstone. So presumably, the seller is putting
(18:40):
some lower quality gems in the same bag ashigh quality, and you have to just buy them
in bulk, right?CC: Well, I think it's something I've always
told people about this industry (18:47):
It’s an industry built on trust. There are a lot of
family businesses, and it's a small industry.If you ruin your reputation, you're not going
to get that second sale from me, or I'm notgoing to get that second sale from someone
else. So you kind of hold yourself and eachother accountable, in that sense.
OF (19:04):
OK. So tell me about what you do with the stone then. When it's already been cut,
what actually is your input into creatingthe finished product?
CC (19:12):
For me, I always like to get to know my clients. And based on that, I will create
a 3D model on the computer.OF: Aha. So in that way, it's quite like other
design jobs.CC: It is very much like other design jobs.
Like when you renovate a house, you have 3Drenderings, things like that. OF: Yeah.
It’s a step closer to the final product, without going all the way through with production.
OF (19:32):
Mm-hm. CC
the client. I usually do three to five differentideas…
So it's about positioning those stones in different configurations.
CC (19:41):
Right, it's about designing with the stones, rather than putting stones on a design.
OF (19:47):
Yes. So you try and keep the shape that they want to be.
CC (19:50):
Exactly, I’ll sit for hours and just literally play around with the gems, mixing
different shapes and directions. And thenI'll ultimately put it on the computer and
see how to physically put it together in a3D way.
OF (20:03):
Mm-hm. This is less scientific, and this is where the artistry comes in.
CC (20:06):
Yes. OF
the other? How do the shapes offset each other?Can you explain it in words, what it is that
you're doing?CC: It's literally just mixing and matching
what I think is the most aesthetically pleasing- that the client will like - in terms of
shape and colour.OF: You're putting the client really at the
heart of it, even above your personal aesthetic.CC: For the most part, yes. Obviously, if
(20:29):
something is completely out of my personalaesthetic, sometimes I just don't take the
job, because I don't think I'm the right personfor it, right? I would ideally like to have
synergy between me and my client as well.It's my style - my personal touch - made for
you, according to your personal style. I loveto play around with pastel colours, your less
conventional colours. People normally likered rubies, blue sapphires. I love the pale
(20:54):
purple, the pale pinks. So I play around witha lot of colours. Fun; colourful; girly, I
would say…OF: But you have to have money too, though.
So you can't be too young.CC: Well, that's the thing. I created my brand,
because after working for Cartier, I've dealtwith clients who saved a long time to purchase
these pieces. They're not cheap. And I wantjewellery to be accessible. So I created my
(21:18):
brand so that it's somewhere in between.OF: Right. We’re just now talking about
your customers. So maybe we can talk aboutthe China market. Because until now, we could
have had this conversation anywhere in theworld, right? But you're selling your jewellery
mainly here in China? Or do you see it asa global market?
For me, the custom pieces are mostly done here.
OF (21:38):
Yeah. CC
Like I mentioned, I love having that relationshipwith my clients. My clients are mostly similar
to my age, people who have travelled a bitand love having something that's unique to
them, and not off the shelf. Because theyprobably already have a good number of those
items.OF: Mm-hm.
CC (21:58):
The difference I see for these clients, they really value quality. What I see in the
U.S. is they will usually opt for a biggerdiamond and lower quality.
OF (22:07):
Oh, I see. CC
up on carat size, and go up in quality. Yeah.OF: But then the quality side, I mean, you
can see it with the naked eye?CC: At certain grades, yes. When it's really
clean, it’s hard even under the microscope.But when it's a bit lower…
Right. CC
(22:28):
So you can tell a terrible diamond from a good one. But it's harder to tell a good
one from a great one.CC: Oh, that's a good way to put it, yes.
That's exactly it.OF: Can you hire me as your marketing person?
CC (22:38):
Oh you’re so good. OF
with these people in these special momentsof their lives. Like, does that give you a
kind of view into these people's personallives?
Oh yeah, you can definitely tell how their relationship is by the way they interact with
you, especially with engagement. When theguy comes to me and they're like “Oh, my
(22:58):
girlfriend likes this; she’s that personalitytype; I think she would love this design;
this suits her”, you can just tell how therelationship is, I guess.
OF (23:08):
Wow. That guy walking in and asking for a custom-made jewel… That's a risk, right?
CC (23:13):
It is a risk. And trust me, they're very scared, most of the time.
OF (23:18):
Yeah, this might be the first time he's ever bought a diamond, he knows as little
about diamonds as I know, and he suddenlyhas to fork out a month's worth of salary,
whatever. So how do you deal with that kindof person?
CC (23:28):
It's actually really cute to see. Because I obviously understand as well, this is probably
one of their biggest purchases.OF: Right.
Aside from a house and a car. OF
And they know nothing about it, right? OF
For cars, guys know a little bit about it.
OF (23:42):
Well, not all guys. CC
function…OF: Yeah, yeah
CC (23:47):
…And you are aware of its existence. Versus a diamond’s like “What is it gonna
do for you?” So it's a lot of education;it’s a lot of sitting down with them and
telling them about why things are different;and showing them different styles. So for
me, as a designer, I love using pictures.It's easier for guys to comprehend when they
see it, versus when they have to visualiseit by themselves. So that's what I do.
OF (24:09):
And I haven't gone through that process. But if it was me, I would bring my fiancée
with me, and make damn sure. I know it's lessromantic, but… I mean, how often does that
happen?CC: Hardly.
Really? CC
actually what I would prefer as a gemologist.OF: Right.
CC (24:24):
I would hope that he comes to me because I can make sure that it is exactly how I like
it.OF: Yeah right. Maybe we're both control freaks.
Oh no, I never thought of it like that! But honestly, it's such a big purchase.
OF (24:35):
Yes! CC
No, exactly. I would feel scared to buy a t-shirt, let alone a diamond ring.
CC (24:41):
But also, like I mentioned before, it tells you how their relationship is.
OF (24:45):
Mm-hm. CC
her for a while…OF: They have talked about it.
CC (24:51):
Yeah, you can kind of get an idea for it.
OF (24:54):
But if they've done that - they've had the conversation with the fiancée - so why
not have her there? Because the romance hasalready slightly gone, because they've had
the conversation. It's not like it's comingout of the blue. I mean, they're quite practical
when it comes to getting married, right?CC: Er… No, Chinese guys are very romantic.
OK. OK, I like hearing that. OK. I've obviously met the wrong ones.
CC (25:12):
Yeah, you'd be surprised. The way they plan things out, some guys are very meticulous
and go above and beyond. Like even me as agirl, I’m like “Wow, you're a really good
boyfriend.”OF: Nice. Well, I came into this conversation
not knowing anything about gems. But I dosee the value that you bring to people, especially
(25:33):
in these important moments of their lives.So thank you for sharing your story, Christina.
Thank you, Oscar, for having me. That was such a fun conversation.
OF (25:42):
Yay. Well let's move on now to Part 2. CC
[Part 2]OF: OK. Ten questions.
CC (25:50):
I’m ready. OF
Daily (25:56):
What is your favourite China-related fact?
CC (25:59):
China is a leading manufacturer of lab-grown diamonds.
OF (26:02):
Oh, it is? CC
I should’ve guessed that. It's always number one in everything.
CC (26:06):
That's true. But yeah, they've become the number one manufacturer of synthetic diamonds.
Which I thought is quite interesting, becausethe original formula for creating lab-grown
diamonds was not in China. And the formulahad gotten off-patent, which is why people
around the world can manufacture now. Andquickly, within a couple of years, China has
become the number one.OF: And that's in terms of scale, or in terms
(26:27):
of quality?CC: Both.
OF (26:29):
Wow. CC
Next question, this comes from Rosetta Stone
in Chinese?CC: I think 谢谢 [xièxiè] is my favourite
phrase.OF: Ah.
CC (26:41):
谢谢 [Xièxiè] means thank you. OF
A little appreciation kind of goes a long way. Especially, I’m in a service based
industry, so I feel it. Especially with onlinecommunication, it's a lot more prevalent than
before. It can really impact someone's life.OF: Yes. Because people can be very abrupt,
transactional, "Do it”, “Yes”. Especiallyon social media, on WeChat. Taking the time
(27:05):
to say just an easy 谢谢 [Xièxiè]… Actually,I've seen that too, because it's in my nature
as a Brit to do all the politeness, right?CC: OK.
OF (27:12):
And I find sometimes people are surprised, like “Oh! You're welcome!”
CC (27:16):
And it's really nice to be on the receiving end of that. I deal so many different people,
like you do too. And when someone is extrakind to you, you notice it, you remember it.
OF (27:28):
Yeah. OK, next one, which comes from naked Retreats
within China?CC: I loved visiting Inner Mongolia. It was
very open, the air was clean, a lot of nature.It was just a nice little road trip that we
did over seven days.OF: Yeah.
CC (27:47):
It reminds you just how small you are compared to Mother Nature. And it was kind
of a nice feeling to be swallowed by nature.OF: Yes. And the thing about Inner Mongolia
is the grasslands. This is what you're describing,right?
Yes. OF
got the sky; nothing in between.CC: And the local people are so proud of the
local culture. They welcome you into theirfamilies, share their food with you. And it's
(28:12):
really, really nice.OF: Mmm. If you left China, what would you
miss the most, and what would you miss theleast?
If I left China, I would miss the convenience. It's amazing how you can get someone to line
up for you, to buy something, or for food.OF: That's something where actually people
wouldn't realise that that is a whole economyhere.
(28:32):
Yeah, I know. It's crazy. Because back in the day when I went clubbing, the clubs
would be like “Oh, you need to be here andget your table by 10:30”.
OF (28:39):
Aha. CC
like finishing dinner. So one time we actuallyhired someone from 美团 [Měituán] to go
sit at our table.OF: Oh wow.
CC (28:51):
Yeah. OF
just a price for everything.CC: And it's not too crazy…
OF (28:56):
No. CC
Yeah, yeah. CC
so dense. Shanghai especially, right? Youcan achieve this sort of efficiency because
the city is so dense.OF: Yeah.
CC (29:08):
But sometimes when we're walking on the street, it's literally shoulder to shoulder.
So I get stepped on a lot.OF: You get stepped on!
When it's crowded, and I don't love that. OF
to personal space.CC: Yes, there's no personal space. You can
be assured that if you're walking in the streetand there's space next to you, someone will
(29:29):
come fill it up.OF: Yeah. Well, please don't step on Christina.
Come on. She's putting ‘谢谢 [Xièxiè]’sout into the world, people. Is there anything
that still surprises you about life in China?CC: I'm very surprised by people's fashion.
OF (29:43):
Ooh. CC
The colours, the shapes, the way they accessorise,they're almost shocking at times. But I appreciate
and respect how audacious they are, and howwilling they are to try different things.
Mmm. CC
(30:04):
Yes, they may change quite often, but that'spart of how they experiment. Like, who are
we to judge? And their hair colours are crazy.But the next month when you see them, they
may have black hair again. They're not afraid.They'll experiment with tattoos and piercings,
which still may be a little bit taboo here,but at least it's more open than before now,
(30:25):
and people are more willing to accept that.OF: Oh yeah, much more so.
CC (30:28):
Yeah. OF
People are bold. OF
I'm a lot more conservative, but I admire their courage.
OF (30:37):
Yeah. I think I'm in the same camp, yeah. Next one, which comes from SmartShanghai:
Where is your favourite place to go out, toeat or drink or just hang out?
CC (30:47):
Recently, I've been in love with Bonica. I love the atmosphere there. It's a restaurant
that has a garden inside, and it's more communitydining style. So it's great for hosting group
dinners and birthday dinners. The lightingis perfect for taking selfies. I’m just
(31:08):
kidding.OF: Now she’s talking.
But yeah, the food is amazing, the atmosphere is friendly, I love eating there.
OF (31:14):
Yeah. Thank you. What is the best or worst purchase you made in China?
CC (31:19):
My best purchase is my 飞跃 [Fēiyuè] shoes.
OF (31:23):
Oh, 飞跃 [Fēiyuè]. CC
and so comfortable.OF: To me it's not even the comfort - although
they are - but it's the classic design. Youknow, for someone who isn't that fashion forward,
I feel kind of fashionable wearing these.What is your favourite WeChat sticker?
CC (31:42):
So I recently got a dog and I’ve just been in love with all animal-related things.
OF (31:47):
Aw. CC
Nice. CC
bee.OF: Oh, is that why it looks like that?
CC (31:57):
His face is swollen, he looks like a little brown teddy bear.
OF (32:01):
Ah. CC
He's so confused. And it's so sad, but it’sso cute.
Yes, that has so much emotion. It's like, you feel pity, you feel the cuteness, you
just want to give that dog a hug, right?CC: Exactly. And you feel so bad for him.
When do you actually use this, then? In what context?
CC (32:22):
Well in the context where someone says something like “Uh, I don't know”, or
whenever you want to give a side-eye. Thisis cute and not offensive.
OF (32:30):
That's great. What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
CC (32:33):
It's called 简单爱 [Jiǎndān Ài]. OF
Meaning ‘Simple love’, by Jay Chou. OF
one?CC: It’s a happy and sweet song, like ‘very
cheesy but hits the spot’ type of song.Upbeat, but not very fast, I think is how
I would describe it.OF: Very good. And does it get everyone joining
(32:57):
in? Or is it more like a solo piece?CC: Oh no, people love to join in on this.
I think it's one of his easier songs.OF: Right.
So people can join in. OF
Yeah. OF
comes from JustPod, which is the studio weare in: What or who is your biggest source
of inspiration in China?CC: Honestly - I thought about this for quite
(33:20):
some time - I think my inspiration is my peers,honestly. Somehow, my friends are all starting
their own businesses; paving their own way,like you with the podcast; making fashion
brands; skateboarding; tissue papers; they'rein an array of industries. And I respect and
(33:41):
admire how determined they are. Everyone'strying their best to make a positive impact
on society in their own way. And they don'tgive up.
OF (33:50):
Nicely said. CC
Well, thank you for the inspiration that you have shared. It's nice to inhabit that
space with you for a short time.CC: Thank you.
I will let you go back to your office. Before I do, who do you recommend that I interview
in the next season of Mosaic of China?CC: Oh my gosh. I would like you to interview
(34:12):
one of my college friends. So I've known herfor also over a decade
Oh, very similar to how Douglon knew you. CC
a consultant turned fashion entrepreneur.OF: OK.
CC (34:26):
She does triathlons, she recently just did a tour of 海南 [Hǎinán] on bicycle.
OF (34:31):
Mm-hm. CC
brand.OF: Knitwear.
CC (34:37):
Yeah. OF
situation where I know nothing about jewels,and now you're gonna throw me into a situation
where I know nothing about knitwear as well.CC: Don’t worry, she'll help you become
an expert by the end of your conversation.She's great. I love her.
OF (34:52):
Oh how lovely. Thank you for that. And if you could ask her one question, what question
would you ask her?CC: I think I would probably ask her, 20-50
years down the line if people refer to PH5,how would you want them to think of PH5? What
is the thing?OF: Ooh. Would you be able to answer that
question yourself about your brand? Oh I haven’teven asked you what your brand is called!
CC (35:14):
Oh! OF
My brand’s called Fujewels. OF
So it stands for ‘For U’. It’s an extension of how we try to make things personal
for our clients.OF: Right.
I want it still to be a boutique-y type design house that has that personal touch.
OF (35:30):
Nice. Thank you again Christina. CC
[Outro]OF: Well I warned you about the little issue
with the audio at the end there, I hope youstill managed to hear what was going on. It
case it wasn’t clear, the WeChat stickerChristina mentioned was one of the dog who’s
been stung by a bee. To take a look at that,and all the other images associated with today’s
(35:57):
episode - including lots of Christina’sjewellery creations - be sure to check out
@mosaicofchina or @oscology on social media.I took a look at all the favourite WeChat
stickers from past guests, and Christina isthe 3rd person to have chosen one with a doggie.
The other two were the L'Oréal biochemistSanford Browne from Season 01 Episode 29,
(36:22):
and more recently the gym owner Siri Nordhejmfrom Season 03 Episode 04. There’s another
connection with Siri, because she also mentionedBonica in Shanghai as her favourite restaurant
in China, so maybe the two of them have crossedpaths there. And the destination of Inner
Mongolia was just mentioned a couple of episodesago, by the adidas merchandiser Kim YoungAh
(36:47):
from Season 03 Episode 18. That wasn’t theonly time, it was also the favourite China
destination of Vladimir Djurovic, the brandnaming expert from Season 02 Episode 13. And
finally Jay Chou - the singer from Christina’sgo-to song to sing at KTV - was mentioned
(37:07):
once before in the show too, and that wasin the Season 02 Wrap-Up episode with Logan
Brouse.
As always, there’s an extra 10 minutes ofconversation available in the PREMIUM version
of today’s episode, please subscribe tothat on Patreon or Apple Podcast Subscriptions
internationally, or on 爱发电 [Àifādiàn]in China. If you’re wondering why today’s
(37:32):
conversation didn’t include more about realgems versus synthetic ones, that’s because
it’s all there in the full-length version!Here are some clips:
[Clip 1]CC: People gift gold.
Oh, do they actually? CC
I didn’t realise that. I know that's a huge deal in India.
CC (37:48):
Same with China. [Clip 2]
To differentiate between synthetic and real, you look inside the gemstone and there
are signs.[Clip 3]
OF (37:55):
You seem to be more passionate about the coloured gems as opposed to the diamonds.
CC (37:59):
Oh no, no, no, don't get me wrong. I love diamonds.
[Clip 4]OF: Can you sell this stuff online?
At first I was also sceptical. [Clip 5]
For example, blue diamonds are caused by boron in the chemical structure; and pink
diamonds have a break in the crystal lattice.[Clip 6]
OF (38:14):
Well, what's the problem? Why is it so bad to have synthetic diamonds?
[Clip 7]CC: And that's what we see for most engagement
rings, right? Table up, point down.[Clip 8]
CC (38:22):
When you see it in your hand, and can touch it and feel it, and have that connection
with the gemstones.OF: Yeah.
[Clip 9]OF: It is hard to scale your business, no?
Yeah, it’s very hard to scale when it's so customised.
[Clip 10]OF: People have marketed it in a way where
it's not completely truthful.OF: Ach.
[Clip 11]OF: There you go. I've given you a nice answer
(38:43):
there.CC: Thank you!
[End of Audio Clips]
OF (38:45):
And that’s all from Christina for now. Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork
by Denny Newell. Coming up is a catch-up witha previous guest from near the beginning of
the project, it’s Vy Vu from Season 01 Episode08. And I’ll see you back here next time.
(39:05):
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: There she is!
VV (39:15):
Hi Oscar! OF
Thank you. OF
yourself unexpectedly living in Vietnam. Youhadn't been able to return to China since
the outbreak of COVID-19. That was our catchup, because you're originally from Season
01. So now that it's two seasons on, wheredo I find you today?
(39:38):
Today I'm actually in the US. So we are stationed in Quechee, Vermont, which is a
very small town on the East of America, abouttwo and a half hours from Boston. So we're
here just temporarily, and then we're actuallygoing back to Vietnam.
OF (39:57):
Oh! So how long have you actually been in the U.S. then?
VV (40:02):
Coming up on six months. Previous to that we were in Melbourne for five months. So we've
almost been travelling for a year. In 2021we had just had a new baby and we were in
lockdown in Vietnam. At that stage, my mothergot sick. We couldn't get out of Saigon straight
(40:22):
to Melbourne, so we went into the U.S. hopingto get flights out of there. We jumped on
the next flight and landed in Melbourne, didour 14 days quarantine, and then by the time
we'd left quarantine, we only had about fivehours with my mum before she passed. So…
yeah.OF: Still worth it. Still worth it.
(40:44):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I know that she waited for us, to hold her newest grandchild.
The flights, the quarantine, the racing aroundthe world, every second was absolutely worth
it.OF: Let me then pivot to talking about what
our original episode was about, which wasmainly about your identity in the community
(41:04):
of FitFam.VV: Yeah.
OF (41:05):
That was a community that you had helped to set up in Shanghai, and then it had grown.
So tell me, what is your status now? BecauseI remember when we last talked, you were pregnant.
So you had taken a step away from being activein FitFam yourself, but you were doing more
of that kind of behind the scenes work.VV: Yeah.
So how would you describe your involvement these days?
VV (41:25):
Still very hands on. Still doing less operational day-to-day stuff. So I'm still
leading workouts. I do them virtually, sowe do have quite a big virtual calendar at
the moment. And now we are in 22 cities globally.So our global community will grow from Shanghai
losing a lot of the foreigners, which is unfortunateand fortunate at the same time.
OF (41:48):
I totally hear you. Yeah, it's going to be a little bit of rebuilding from the destruction,
but it's going to emerge very strong. You'regoing to suddenly have all of these people
who understand the FitFam culture from Shanghaipopping up all around the world, able to create
new communities, and it'll blossom into somethingwhich otherwise might not have globalised
(42:08):
quite so quickly.VV: Yeah, absolutely.
So it might end up being almost better for you, right?
VV (42:13):
Yes, yes. And because we've been always so China-focused, we're having to pivot and
really think globally, bringing in differenttypes of workouts. And, you know, the secret
sauce is still there. We still love what we'redoing, it’s still always run by volunteers,
and we just want to provide free fitness.OF: Yeah. Well Vy, pleasure to speak to you
(42:35):
again. I love that even though we are separatedby many oceans, we have this excuse to catch
up at least once a year. So let's continuedoing that as we go into future seasons of
Mosaic of China.VV: Absolutely. So good to see you.
[Trailer]OF: So you can tell a terrible diamond from
a good one, but it's harder to tell a goodone from a great one.
CC (00:07):
Oh, that's exactly it. Oh you’re so good.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
If I said to you that there’s some kindof overlap between geology and fashion, would
(00:28):
you immediately realise what I’m talkingabout? I’m talking about gemology, which
I guess you could call the science of bling.In today’s episode, I’m speaking with
Christina Chao, who is a gemologist, and inmy interview with her I could have talked
more about the fashion side of her work, butinstead I chose to focus more on the geology
(00:53):
side. There are two reasons for this, thefirst one being that given a choice, I’m
personally much more comfortable talking aboutthe geeky side of things rather than the fashionable
side. Just take one look at me, and that shouldbe clear. But the second reason is that I’ve
already interviewed a jewellery designer onthe show, that was Angie Wu from Season 01
(01:18):
Episode 18. Since that conversation was moreabout Angie’s artistry, I wanted to take
a very different tack in my conversation withChristina.
So I’m saying all this for three reasons.Firstly, to remind you about Angie’s episode,
so that you can listen back to that as anaccompaniment to today’s show; secondly
(01:40):
to reassure others on the same end of thegeek spectrum as me that you shouldn’t be
scared of today’s episode, I promise you’regoing to find it both interesting and fun;
and thirdly to apologise to Christina forfocusing our chat more on her science rather
than her art. And while I’m apologising,let me also mention that very near the end
(02:04):
of our recording, something strange happenedfor a short time to Christina’s microphone
in the studio, not once but twice, and I losther side of the conversation. I’ve done
my best in the edit to salvage what she saidby turning up the volume on what got picked
up from her on my microphone. It’s reallyright at the end, so by the time you get to
(02:29):
it you’ll probably have forgotten all aboutthis apology. In which case, maybe I should
be apologising for wasting your time withthese apologies.
[Part 1]OF: We are ready to start. Hello Christina.
Hi Oscar! OF
start. I can just tell from your voice thatyou're in a good mood. Is that right?
(02:51):
Yeah, of course. Always. OF
In one sentence, what would you say that youdo here in China?
So I'm a gemologist certified by GIA. I design custom pieces for people, and make
their jewellery dreams come true.OF: Make the jewellery dreams come true. The
first question I ask everyone sitting in thatchair is, what object did you bring that in
(03:14):
some way typifies your life here in China?CC: I brought my phone.
OF (03:18):
Your phone. CC
So this is a very ‘route one’ object, I must say. What does the phone mean to you?
CC (03:25):
I feel like in China, literally our life here is dependent on our phone. My business
is done a lot over the phone. So the phonebasically is my life right now.
OF (03:35):
Mm-hm. CC
for maybe just a week at a time. That wouldbe nice.
Of course, you might have brought that object if we were doing ‘Mosaic of LA’
or ‘Mosaic of Nairobi’. But there's justsomething about phones in China where it's
that much more important.CC: Yeah. And it goes to the efficiency of
(03:56):
China, right?OF: Well, you remind me of the first person
who ever used the phone as their object. Andthat was Tom Barker, who was the Kiwi diplomat
- so, from New Zealand - and he was sayingthere is a privacy aspect which you have to
also keep in mind. How necessary it is, andat the same time how we lose a little bit
of privacy…CC: Yes.
(04:16):
… In some aspects, more than in other countries, right?
CC (04:18):
For sure. OF
I feel like they know exactly what I'm doing, where I am, at all times.
OF (04:24):
Yes. Whoever ‘they’ might be. CC
Well, you said right at the beginning that you are a gemologist. Let me be honest
with you, I very rarely wear jewellery. Infact, I probably only own one piece of jewellery,
which is my wedding ring. So you're talkingto somebody who is completely uninitiated
into your world, which means that I have thecarte blanche to ask you all the most stupid
(04:45):
questions that perhaps others would neverask you.
CC (04:48):
There are no stupid questions. OF
So, gemology is the study of gemstones. How they form, how we value them, how we appraise
them. It's a very scientific understandingof why gems have the values that they have.
OF (05:06):
Let me go to the most fundamental piece about this. Why do we put such value on these
rocks?CC: I think there are two things. One is,
they are a natural resource. It's a commodity,where there's a finite number. Added to that,
they're really beautiful to look at. So Ithink that speaks to some people about wanting
(05:27):
to be able to have that, and share it withthose around them. The second thing touches
upon our nature for consumption.OF: Mm-hm. I feel like I'm putting you on
the spot, right? Because in the hierarchyof things we need, jewellery is way way down.
CC (05:42):
Exactly, yeah. OF
I totally agree with that. I mean, I think when the pandemic first started, I really
felt that - in my industry, right - jewelleryis not a basic necessity. So when the macro
environment is so uncertain, what do peopledo? People try to go for the necessities first.
And my industry, I think, was one of the onesthat felt it.
OF (06:02):
And did that actually impinge onto the way that you feel, like “What is my worth?”
Like, “What am I doing this for?” Like,did that have that effect on you?
CC (06:09):
Definitely. It was always a topic I felt morally conflicted about. Because the industry
is very glitzy and luxurious, and all basedon consumption. Granted, yes, the jewellery
pieces I make for my clients, they alwaysappreciate it. And I'm celebrating a milestone
with them. So that, in a way, is very fulfilling.However, I think for greater society, I always
(06:31):
question “Is there something more I cando?
OF (06:34):
Mmm. Well, let me give you an ‘out’ here. Because in the pandemic, what did we
all turn to? We turned to things like Netflix- the entertainment side - which maybe you
take for granted, and you think it's justsuperficial. But the things that made us happy
during those really hard times were important.CC: Oh, that is a really nice way of putting
it, yeah.OF: Right? Well, I don't want to go too far
(06:55):
from that initial question about gemology.It's got an ‘ology’, so it's something
which you have to study?CC: Yes. I went to school for six months at
GIA in Carlsbad, California.OF: Oh, I know Carlsbad.
CC (07:05):
Oh my god, it's such a beautiful beach town. It's just nice and relaxing.
OF (07:10):
And that's where you're from, or..? CC
is.OF: OK.
CC (07:15):
So that's where I stayed for six months. From 8am to 3pm, every day, all we did was
study gems. You have to get the gems right100% to pass and get the certificate.
OF (07:24):
Mm-hm. CC
But before that, you know, I was in the jewelleryindustry already. I was working at Cartier
China after graduating college.OF: OK, so it wasn't out of the blue that
you landed on this profession.CC: No, it was not. I started working when
I was 16. And I knew I wanted to be in theluxury and fashion industry. It was just something
(07:44):
that I always loved. Luckily enough, I graduatedearly from college, got an internship with
Cartier China, they hired me as a full timeemployee one month in, and I started my career
in jewellery.OF: Wow. You've mentioned your education,
so that makes me think about the connectionyou had with a previous guest from last season,
(08:05):
Douglon Tse.CC: Yes.
Let me play what he said about you. [Start of Audio Clip]
DT (08:09):
I recommend someone I've known for many years, her name is Christina Chao. I went
to high school with her, and she started herown company doing gems and diamonds.
[End of Audio Clip]CC: Yeah.
OF (08:19):
Tell me about your connection to Douglon then.
CC (08:21):
So I've known him for over a decade. And obviously, we went to high school together,
a small high school in Massachusetts, rightoutside of Boston.
OF (08:29):
Mmm. CC
a manager for these teams. So he was on thewrestling team that I managed. This baby Douglon,
you know. He's about three years younger thanme.
Oh, right. CC
lot.OF: So I guess you still think of him as you’re
little baby brother.CC: He’s definitely stuck in that, in my
mind. He's younger than my own younger brother.So I'm like “Oh, Douglon."
(08:52):
OK. So that was high school times. CC
Well then let's fast forward again. So you said that you had your first job in Cartier
in China, tell me about that time.CC: I loved my experience there, I think.
Landing that job out of college was such adream come true. I had worked since I was
(09:13):
16 to get this dream job, and when you achieveit at age 20, and you work for them for four
years, you feel like “Is there more forme? Is there something else I can try?”
And that was my personal conflict at 25.OF: Mmm. OK, so you did work with them for
a good few years though.CC: I did, I did. I had different functions
(09:34):
with them, starting with marketing, and thencustomer relationship management, ultimately
ending doing operations, strategic planning,and high jewellery events. So that's actually
what led me to become even more interestedin gemology. I was looking at these pieces
being sold for millions of dollars, and Ididn't understand why. So I wanted to have
(09:57):
a more professional understanding. And soI went to GIA.
And ‘GIA’ stands for what? CC
are a neutral third party grading companythat evaluates diamonds and gemstones.
Mm-hm. CC
scale.OF: Four Cs?
CC (10:18):
Colour, carat, clarity and cut. OF
So there's a way to numerically organise that into prices.
OF (10:25):
So for example, of those four Cs, which is the easiest one? Colour, right? You can
tell that straight away.CC: Colour is a little tricky, no. Because
it's on a scale from D to Z, and every colouris just ever so slightly different.
Yes. CC
and it’s very difficult to tell what colourgrade they are. So the easiest, I think, would
(10:47):
be cut. Which is the shape of the diamond,plus how it's polished and how symmetrical
it is. Is it a cushion shape? Is it a roundshape? Is it a princess cut?
And so you're seeing them at a time where they've already been processed in some way
before it gets to your eyes.CC: For sure. I only deal with cut gems. Raw
gemstone dealing is a whole other sciencethat is too crazy.
(11:10):
Really? So when it comes to the cut then, someone has made a choice on cutting it in
a certain way based on the rock itself?CC: So when miners find a rough diamond, let's
just say. Diamonds are grown in octahedralshapes. So a round diamond, cutting from an
octahedral, will waste 50% of the rough.OF: Oh, so the round diamond will be more
(11:33):
expensive.CC: Yes.
Because of the waste involved in creating that shape.
CC (11:36):
Exactly. OF
But you're paying for a more rare diamond, because it's harder to cut in that shape,
right?OF: Mm-hm.
Let's take another shape. For example princess cut, which is a square-shaped diamond.
OF (11:50):
Aha. CC
And with that, obviously the price will bea little bit more favourable. However, the
shapes of diamonds and the way they sit ona person's hand is all personal preference.
Mm-hm. CC
people, I think, prefer rounds because itsymbolises unity. So generally when they propose,
(12:11):
they prefer round diamonds.OF: Mm-hm. And it just so happens that you
can charge more money for it too.CC: Yeah.
Oh dear, I'm bullying you now. Is it mainly those two shapes, then? Or what are the cuts
are there?CC: Oh no, there’s a tonne.
Go on. CC
top and bottom edges; there's Asscher cutwhich is square-ish; there’s radiant cut,
(12:33):
which has more facets so it tends to be verysparkly; there's a tonne. People get really
creative with it too, some will cut like tennisracquet shapes or Buddha head shapes.
Really? CC
There you go. I mean, this is obviously the passion that you had before. But presumably
it grew as you learnt more about itCC: Definitely, the more I learned about it,
the more I fell in love with it. I used tonever be a person for colour stones. And I
(12:58):
think they’re just so fun. There are somany different colours, and different combinations,
different region origins, and why they'refrom certain regions only, and how to make
synthetic ones, different processes of that.So cool.
OK, well you’ve touched upon other topics. So let me go to what you first said just there
about the colour stones (13:15):
emerald or sapphire, ruby, these are the colour stones, right?
CC (13:19):
Yes, correct. OF
kind of colour if you get a ruby from onepart of the world, versus another part of
the world?CC: Yeah, I mean really high-end rubies, they
call it the ‘pigeon blood’ red…OF: Pigeon blood red.
Yeah. OF
it…CC: It’s not a beautiful way, no. But it's
got this special highlighter red. But thispigeon blood red from Myanmar is specific
(13:44):
to that region.OF: Hmm.
OF (13:45):
Emeralds, right. So there's a specific mine - Muzo emerald - that have inclusions
that you can see that are different from otherregional emeralds from Brazil. Kashmir sapphires
from the mountain region of Kashmir. The pinkdiamond mine in Australia, there's just one
specific mine that produces the most beautiful,slightly reddish/pink diamonds. They've ran
(14:08):
out of supply, so there is no more of that.OF: And so who gets to decide which one is
the valuable one?CC: I think you just touched upon a really
good point. It is about scarcity, I thinkas it is with a lot of our natural resources,
like gas, coal. But a lot of times it's verysubjective, right? Colour stones - as the
name indicates - is based on colour, and colouris a very subjective thing.
(14:32):
Mmm. CC
jade command higher prices in China, becauseChinese people love jade.
I really am not a fan of jade. CC
I’ve been in Asia now for coming up to 19 years. I've been surrounded by jade.
And as an amateur, walking past the jewelleryshop I'm like “What is that green snot?”
(14:52):
I intrinsically don't see the value in it.What is it about jade in particular that is
so respected in China?CC: I think it has to do a lot with the Chinese
history, right? It goes way back, right?OF: Of course. Back to the Emperors, right?
CC (15:05):
Yeah. OF
You've explained the cut part. What were theother two Cs?
Carat size, which is how big the diamond is. Carat is equal to weight. Each carat is
about 0.2 grammes. That's just how we weighgemstones. And then we have clarity. Clarity
is how clean the inside of a gem is. Somegems like emeralds are very naturally included.
(15:31):
So you don't expect to find a perfectly cleangem. For diamonds, yes, there are flawless
gemstones where there's nothing inside. Andthose are actually the trickiest for us to
grade in the diamond labs.OF: Oh, I see.
We grade gems at 10x magnification. But with flawless diamonds, we literally go up
to like 50x, 70x, just to make sure that thatlittle piece of thing on the diamond is not
(15:55):
a dust particle. So those are the hardestto grade, you have to make sure there's actually
nothing there.OF: And you have learned how to differentiate
an inclusion versus a piece of dust.CC: Yes, we do. We go up and down on magnification;
we turn the gem around and around; we literallylook at every single facet on the gem.
OF (16:13):
Mm-hm. The more I hear about your studies, it sounds like an eyesight test more than
anything else. Let's talk about, then, howyou get your hands on these gemstones. How
does that even work?CC: So before the pandemic I used to travel
for jewellery shows, and that's usually whereI get a lot of my gems.
Aha. CC
Brazil, Africa, Thailand, Sri Lanka - they'llbring their gems to these shows. And it's
(16:39):
a centralised location where people like me- designers, retailers - can go to purchase
in wholesale bulk.OF: Yes.
CC (16:46):
These massive halls, one after the other, row after row after row. So you would spend,
like, 2-3 days walking down each row, comparingprices, comparing colours. They're actually
very similar to each other.OF: Yeah, totally.
Yeah. OF
just me in a market where there's fruit.CC: Yes.
OF (17:05):
But why should I buy an apple from this person versus that person? It comes down to
just the relationship you have with the vendor.CC: It's similar. It could be because I've
seen you at the show, we already have thisrelationship. Or I have better communication
with you. It's the same concept as when peoplewant to work with me. Like, why should they
come to me over another jewellery designer?There's so many. It's about the relationship
that you have; and the communication (17:25):
How easy it is to talk to each other; how well
do you understand what I need; and how wellcan you provide that?
OF (17:32):
The lighting must be intense. CC
Really? CC
gems look good, manipulating it to the bestof the gemstones’ colour.
Right. CC
if I pull a gemstone to the side where it'snot as light. Because you know, you have to
keep in mind, they’re booths.OF: Yes. And they have their own lighting…
CC (17:52):
Exactly. OF
light.CC: Exactly.
OF (17:54):
Hmm. What kind of scale are you buying these gems at then, at these places?
CC (17:58):
Sometimes it could be really little, I just want to test out certain shapes or colours,
a new design that I have in mind. With that,I'm able to choose exactly which stones I
want to keep.OF: The individual stones, right?
Exactly. We call it ‘pick price’ and ‘parcel price’. When it's a parcel price,
you just say “Oh, I want to pick up 10 carats.”And they give you…
OF (18:17):
A bag. CC
have. And it's a cheaper price. Pick priceis literally, you can sit there and pick through
individual gemstones from the batch they have.Most of the times I do pick price, just because
I'm quite picky on my colour combination.OF: Mmm. So what you're saying is, when you
buy in a bag, you don't look at each individualstone. So presumably, the seller is putting
(18:40):
some lower quality gems in the same bag ashigh quality, and you have to just buy them
in bulk, right?CC: Well, I think it's something I've always
told people about this industry (18:47):
It’s an industry built on trust. There are a lot of
family businesses, and it's a small industry.If you ruin your reputation, you're not going
to get that second sale from me, or I'm notgoing to get that second sale from someone
else. So you kind of hold yourself and eachother accountable, in that sense.
OF (19:04):
OK. So tell me about what you do with the stone then. When it's already been cut,
what actually is your input into creatingthe finished product?
CC (19:12):
For me, I always like to get to know my clients. And based on that, I will create
a 3D model on the computer.OF: Aha. So in that way, it's quite like other
design jobs.CC: It is very much like other design jobs.
Like when you renovate a house, you have 3Drenderings, things like that. OF: Yeah.
It’s a step closer to the final product, without going all the way through with production.
OF (19:32):
Mm-hm. CC
the client. I usually do three to five differentideas…
So it's about positioning those stones in different configurations.
CC (19:41):
Right, it's about designing with the stones, rather than putting stones on a design.
OF (19:47):
Yes. So you try and keep the shape that they want to be.
CC (19:50):
Exactly, I’ll sit for hours and just literally play around with the gems, mixing
different shapes and directions. And thenI'll ultimately put it on the computer and
see how to physically put it together in a3D way.
OF (20:03):
Mm-hm. This is less scientific, and this is where the artistry comes in.
CC (20:06):
Yes. OF
the other? How do the shapes offset each other?Can you explain it in words, what it is that
you're doing?CC: It's literally just mixing and matching
what I think is the most aesthetically pleasing- that the client will like - in terms of
shape and colour.OF: You're putting the client really at the
heart of it, even above your personal aesthetic.CC: For the most part, yes. Obviously, if
(20:29):
something is completely out of my personalaesthetic, sometimes I just don't take the
job, because I don't think I'm the right personfor it, right? I would ideally like to have
synergy between me and my client as well.It's my style - my personal touch - made for
you, according to your personal style. I loveto play around with pastel colours, your less
conventional colours. People normally likered rubies, blue sapphires. I love the pale
(20:54):
purple, the pale pinks. So I play around witha lot of colours. Fun; colourful; girly, I
would say…OF: But you have to have money too, though.
So you can't be too young.CC: Well, that's the thing. I created my brand,
because after working for Cartier, I've dealtwith clients who saved a long time to purchase
these pieces. They're not cheap. And I wantjewellery to be accessible. So I created my
(21:18):
brand so that it's somewhere in between.OF: Right. We’re just now talking about
your customers. So maybe we can talk aboutthe China market. Because until now, we could
have had this conversation anywhere in theworld, right? But you're selling your jewellery
mainly here in China? Or do you see it asa global market?
For me, the custom pieces are mostly done here.
OF (21:38):
Yeah. CC
Like I mentioned, I love having that relationshipwith my clients. My clients are mostly similar
to my age, people who have travelled a bitand love having something that's unique to
them, and not off the shelf. Because theyprobably already have a good number of those
items.OF: Mm-hm.
CC (21:58):
The difference I see for these clients, they really value quality. What I see in the
U.S. is they will usually opt for a biggerdiamond and lower quality.
OF (22:07):
Oh, I see. CC
up on carat size, and go up in quality. Yeah.OF: But then the quality side, I mean, you
can see it with the naked eye?CC: At certain grades, yes. When it's really
clean, it’s hard even under the microscope.But when it's a bit lower…
Right. CC
(22:28):
So you can tell a terrible diamond from a good one. But it's harder to tell a good
one from a great one.CC: Oh, that's a good way to put it, yes.
That's exactly it.OF: Can you hire me as your marketing person?
CC (22:38):
Oh you’re so good. OF
with these people in these special momentsof their lives. Like, does that give you a
kind of view into these people's personallives?
Oh yeah, you can definitely tell how their relationship is by the way they interact with
you, especially with engagement. When theguy comes to me and they're like “Oh, my
(22:58):
girlfriend likes this; she’s that personalitytype; I think she would love this design;
this suits her”, you can just tell how therelationship is, I guess.
OF (23:08):
Wow. That guy walking in and asking for a custom-made jewel… That's a risk, right?
CC (23:13):
It is a risk. And trust me, they're very scared, most of the time.
OF (23:18):
Yeah, this might be the first time he's ever bought a diamond, he knows as little
about diamonds as I know, and he suddenlyhas to fork out a month's worth of salary,
whatever. So how do you deal with that kindof person?
CC (23:28):
It's actually really cute to see. Because I obviously understand as well, this is probably
one of their biggest purchases.OF: Right.
Aside from a house and a car. OF
And they know nothing about it, right? OF
For cars, guys know a little bit about it.
OF (23:42):
Well, not all guys. CC
function…OF: Yeah, yeah
CC (23:47):
…And you are aware of its existence. Versus a diamond’s like “What is it gonna
do for you?” So it's a lot of education;it’s a lot of sitting down with them and
telling them about why things are different;and showing them different styles. So for
me, as a designer, I love using pictures.It's easier for guys to comprehend when they
see it, versus when they have to visualiseit by themselves. So that's what I do.
OF (24:09):
And I haven't gone through that process. But if it was me, I would bring my fiancée
with me, and make damn sure. I know it's lessromantic, but… I mean, how often does that
happen?CC: Hardly.
Really? CC
actually what I would prefer as a gemologist.OF: Right.
CC (24:24):
I would hope that he comes to me because I can make sure that it is exactly how I like
it.OF: Yeah right. Maybe we're both control freaks.
Oh no, I never thought of it like that! But honestly, it's such a big purchase.
OF (24:35):
Yes! CC
No, exactly. I would feel scared to buy a t-shirt, let alone a diamond ring.
CC (24:41):
But also, like I mentioned before, it tells you how their relationship is.
OF (24:45):
Mm-hm. CC
her for a while…OF: They have talked about it.
CC (24:51):
Yeah, you can kind of get an idea for it.
OF (24:54):
But if they've done that - they've had the conversation with the fiancée - so why
not have her there? Because the romance hasalready slightly gone, because they've had
the conversation. It's not like it's comingout of the blue. I mean, they're quite practical
when it comes to getting married, right?CC: Er… No, Chinese guys are very romantic.
OK. OK, I like hearing that. OK. I've obviously met the wrong ones.
CC (25:12):
Yeah, you'd be surprised. The way they plan things out, some guys are very meticulous
and go above and beyond. Like even me as agirl, I’m like “Wow, you're a really good
boyfriend.”OF: Nice. Well, I came into this conversation
not knowing anything about gems. But I dosee the value that you bring to people, especially
(25:33):
in these important moments of their lives.So thank you for sharing your story, Christina.
Thank you, Oscar, for having me. That was such a fun conversation.
OF (25:42):
Yay. Well let's move on now to Part 2. CC
[Part 2]OF: OK. Ten questions.
CC (25:50):
I’m ready. OF
Daily (25:56):
What is your favourite China-related fact?
CC (25:59):
China is a leading manufacturer of lab-grown diamonds.
OF (26:02):
Oh, it is? CC
I should’ve guessed that. It's always number one in everything.
CC (26:06):
That's true. But yeah, they've become the number one manufacturer of synthetic diamonds.
Which I thought is quite interesting, becausethe original formula for creating lab-grown
diamonds was not in China. And the formulahad gotten off-patent, which is why people
around the world can manufacture now. Andquickly, within a couple of years, China has
become the number one.OF: And that's in terms of scale, or in terms
(26:27):
of quality?CC: Both.
OF (26:29):
Wow. CC
Next question, this comes from Rosetta Stone
in Chinese?CC: I think 谢谢 [xièxiè] is my favourite
phrase.OF: Ah.
CC (26:41):
谢谢 [Xièxiè] means thank you. OF
A little appreciation kind of goes a long way. Especially, I’m in a service based
industry, so I feel it. Especially with onlinecommunication, it's a lot more prevalent than
before. It can really impact someone's life.OF: Yes. Because people can be very abrupt,
transactional, "Do it”, “Yes”. Especiallyon social media, on WeChat. Taking the time
(27:05):
to say just an easy 谢谢 [Xièxiè]… Actually,I've seen that too, because it's in my nature
as a Brit to do all the politeness, right?CC: OK.
OF (27:12):
And I find sometimes people are surprised, like “Oh! You're welcome!”
CC (27:16):
And it's really nice to be on the receiving end of that. I deal so many different people,
like you do too. And when someone is extrakind to you, you notice it, you remember it.
OF (27:28):
Yeah. OK, next one, which comes from naked Retreats
within China?CC: I loved visiting Inner Mongolia. It was
very open, the air was clean, a lot of nature.It was just a nice little road trip that we
did over seven days.OF: Yeah.
CC (27:47):
It reminds you just how small you are compared to Mother Nature. And it was kind
of a nice feeling to be swallowed by nature.OF: Yes. And the thing about Inner Mongolia
is the grasslands. This is what you're describing,right?
Yes. OF
got the sky; nothing in between.CC: And the local people are so proud of the
local culture. They welcome you into theirfamilies, share their food with you. And it's
(28:12):
really, really nice.OF: Mmm. If you left China, what would you
miss the most, and what would you miss theleast?
If I left China, I would miss the convenience. It's amazing how you can get someone to line
up for you, to buy something, or for food.OF: That's something where actually people
wouldn't realise that that is a whole economyhere.
(28:32):
Yeah, I know. It's crazy. Because back in the day when I went clubbing, the clubs
would be like “Oh, you need to be here andget your table by 10:30”.
OF (28:39):
Aha. CC
like finishing dinner. So one time we actuallyhired someone from 美团 [Měituán] to go
sit at our table.OF: Oh wow.
CC (28:51):
Yeah. OF
just a price for everything.CC: And it's not too crazy…
OF (28:56):
No. CC
Yeah, yeah. CC
so dense. Shanghai especially, right? Youcan achieve this sort of efficiency because
the city is so dense.OF: Yeah.
CC (29:08):
But sometimes when we're walking on the street, it's literally shoulder to shoulder.
So I get stepped on a lot.OF: You get stepped on!
When it's crowded, and I don't love that. OF
to personal space.CC: Yes, there's no personal space. You can
be assured that if you're walking in the streetand there's space next to you, someone will
(29:29):
come fill it up.OF: Yeah. Well, please don't step on Christina.
Come on. She's putting ‘谢谢 [Xièxiè]’sout into the world, people. Is there anything
that still surprises you about life in China?CC: I'm very surprised by people's fashion.
OF (29:43):
Ooh. CC
The colours, the shapes, the way they accessorise,they're almost shocking at times. But I appreciate
and respect how audacious they are, and howwilling they are to try different things.
Mmm. CC
(30:04):
Yes, they may change quite often, but that'spart of how they experiment. Like, who are
we to judge? And their hair colours are crazy.But the next month when you see them, they
may have black hair again. They're not afraid.They'll experiment with tattoos and piercings,
which still may be a little bit taboo here,but at least it's more open than before now,
(30:25):
and people are more willing to accept that.OF: Oh yeah, much more so.
CC (30:28):
Yeah. OF
People are bold. OF
I'm a lot more conservative, but I admire their courage.
OF (30:37):
Yeah. I think I'm in the same camp, yeah. Next one, which comes from SmartShanghai:
Where is your favourite place to go out, toeat or drink or just hang out?
CC (30:47):
Recently, I've been in love with Bonica. I love the atmosphere there. It's a restaurant
that has a garden inside, and it's more communitydining style. So it's great for hosting group
dinners and birthday dinners. The lightingis perfect for taking selfies. I’m just
(31:08):
kidding.OF: Now she’s talking.
But yeah, the food is amazing, the atmosphere is friendly, I love eating there.
OF (31:14):
Yeah. Thank you. What is the best or worst purchase you made in China?
CC (31:19):
My best purchase is my 飞跃 [Fēiyuè] shoes.
OF (31:23):
Oh, 飞跃 [Fēiyuè]. CC
and so comfortable.OF: To me it's not even the comfort - although
they are - but it's the classic design. Youknow, for someone who isn't that fashion forward,
I feel kind of fashionable wearing these.What is your favourite WeChat sticker?
CC (31:42):
So I recently got a dog and I’ve just been in love with all animal-related things.
OF (31:47):
Aw. CC
Nice. CC
bee.OF: Oh, is that why it looks like that?
CC (31:57):
His face is swollen, he looks like a little brown teddy bear.
OF (32:01):
Ah. CC
He's so confused. And it's so sad, but it’sso cute.
Yes, that has so much emotion. It's like, you feel pity, you feel the cuteness, you
just want to give that dog a hug, right?CC: Exactly. And you feel so bad for him.
When do you actually use this, then? In what context?
CC (32:22):
Well in the context where someone says something like “Uh, I don't know”, or
whenever you want to give a side-eye. Thisis cute and not offensive.
OF (32:30):
That's great. What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
CC (32:33):
It's called 简单爱 [Jiǎndān Ài]. OF
Meaning ‘Simple love’, by Jay Chou. OF
one?CC: It’s a happy and sweet song, like ‘very
cheesy but hits the spot’ type of song.Upbeat, but not very fast, I think is how
I would describe it.OF: Very good. And does it get everyone joining
(32:57):
in? Or is it more like a solo piece?CC: Oh no, people love to join in on this.
I think it's one of his easier songs.OF: Right.
So people can join in. OF
Yeah. OF
comes from JustPod, which is the studio weare in: What or who is your biggest source
of inspiration in China?CC: Honestly - I thought about this for quite
(33:20):
some time - I think my inspiration is my peers,honestly. Somehow, my friends are all starting
their own businesses; paving their own way,like you with the podcast; making fashion
brands; skateboarding; tissue papers; they'rein an array of industries. And I respect and
(33:41):
admire how determined they are. Everyone'strying their best to make a positive impact
on society in their own way. And they don'tgive up.
OF (33:50):
Nicely said. CC
Well, thank you for the inspiration that you have shared. It's nice to inhabit that
space with you for a short time.CC: Thank you.
I will let you go back to your office. Before I do, who do you recommend that I interview
in the next season of Mosaic of China?CC: Oh my gosh. I would like you to interview
(34:12):
one of my college friends. So I've known herfor also over a decade
Oh, very similar to how Douglon knew you. CC
a consultant turned fashion entrepreneur.OF: OK.
CC (34:26):
She does triathlons, she recently just did a tour of 海南 [Hǎinán] on bicycle.
OF (34:31):
Mm-hm. CC
brand.OF: Knitwear.
CC (34:37):
Yeah. OF
situation where I know nothing about jewels,and now you're gonna throw me into a situation
where I know nothing about knitwear as well.CC: Don’t worry, she'll help you become
an expert by the end of your conversation.She's great. I love her.
OF (34:52):
Oh how lovely. Thank you for that. And if you could ask her one question, what question
would you ask her?CC: I think I would probably ask her, 20-50
years down the line if people refer to PH5,how would you want them to think of PH5? What
is the thing?OF: Ooh. Would you be able to answer that
question yourself about your brand? Oh I haven’teven asked you what your brand is called!
CC (35:14):
Oh! OF
My brand’s called Fujewels. OF
So it stands for ‘For U’. It’s an extension of how we try to make things personal
for our clients.OF: Right.
I want it still to be a boutique-y type design house that has that personal touch.
OF (35:30):
Nice. Thank you again Christina. CC
[Outro]OF: Well I warned you about the little issue
with the audio at the end there, I hope youstill managed to hear what was going on. It
case it wasn’t clear, the WeChat stickerChristina mentioned was one of the dog who’s
been stung by a bee. To take a look at that,and all the other images associated with today’s
(35:57):
episode - including lots of Christina’sjewellery creations - be sure to check out
@mosaicofchina or @oscology on social media.I took a look at all the favourite WeChat
stickers from past guests, and Christina isthe 3rd person to have chosen one with a doggie.
The other two were the L'Oréal biochemistSanford Browne from Season 01 Episode 29,
(36:22):
and more recently the gym owner Siri Nordhejmfrom Season 03 Episode 04. There’s another
connection with Siri, because she also mentionedBonica in Shanghai as her favourite restaurant
in China, so maybe the two of them have crossedpaths there. And the destination of Inner
Mongolia was just mentioned a couple of episodesago, by the adidas merchandiser Kim YoungAh
(36:47):
from Season 03 Episode 18. That wasn’t theonly time, it was also the favourite China
destination of Vladimir Djurovic, the brandnaming expert from Season 02 Episode 13. And
finally Jay Chou - the singer from Christina’sgo-to song to sing at KTV - was mentioned
(37:07):
once before in the show too, and that wasin the Season 02 Wrap-Up episode with Logan
Brouse.
As always, there’s an extra 10 minutes ofconversation available in the PREMIUM version
of today’s episode, please subscribe tothat on Patreon or Apple Podcast Subscriptions
internationally, or on 爱发电 [Àifādiàn]in China. If you’re wondering why today’s
(37:32):
conversation didn’t include more about realgems versus synthetic ones, that’s because
it’s all there in the full-length version!Here are some clips:
[Clip 1]CC: People gift gold.
Oh, do they actually? CC
I didn’t realise that. I know that's a huge deal in India.
CC (37:48):
Same with China. [Clip 2]
To differentiate between synthetic and real, you look inside the gemstone and there
are signs.[Clip 3]
OF (37:55):
You seem to be more passionate about the coloured gems as opposed to the diamonds.
CC (37:59):
Oh no, no, no, don't get me wrong. I love diamonds.
[Clip 4]OF: Can you sell this stuff online?
At first I was also sceptical. [Clip 5]
For example, blue diamonds are caused by boron in the chemical structure; and pink
diamonds have a break in the crystal lattice.[Clip 6]
OF (38:14):
Well, what's the problem? Why is it so bad to have synthetic diamonds?
[Clip 7]CC: And that's what we see for most engagement
rings, right? Table up, point down.[Clip 8]
CC (38:22):
When you see it in your hand, and can touch it and feel it, and have that connection
with the gemstones.OF: Yeah.
[Clip 9]OF: It is hard to scale your business, no?
Yeah, it’s very hard to scale when it's so customised.
[Clip 10]OF: People have marketed it in a way where
it's not completely truthful.OF: Ach.
[Clip 11]OF: There you go. I've given you a nice answer
(38:43):
there.CC: Thank you!
[End of Audio Clips]
OF (38:45):
And that’s all from Christina for now. Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork
by Denny Newell. Coming up is a catch-up witha previous guest from near the beginning of
the project, it’s Vy Vu from Season 01 Episode08. And I’ll see you back here next time.
(39:05):
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: There she is!
VV (39:15):
Hi Oscar! OF
Thank you. OF
yourself unexpectedly living in Vietnam. Youhadn't been able to return to China since
the outbreak of COVID-19. That was our catchup, because you're originally from Season
01. So now that it's two seasons on, wheredo I find you today?
(39:38):
Today I'm actually in the US. So we are stationed in Quechee, Vermont, which is a
very small town on the East of America, abouttwo and a half hours from Boston. So we're
here just temporarily, and then we're actuallygoing back to Vietnam.
OF (39:57):
Oh! So how long have you actually been in the U.S. then?
VV (40:02):
Coming up on six months. Previous to that we were in Melbourne for five months. So we've
almost been travelling for a year. In 2021we had just had a new baby and we were in
lockdown in Vietnam. At that stage, my mothergot sick. We couldn't get out of Saigon straight
(40:22):
to Melbourne, so we went into the U.S. hopingto get flights out of there. We jumped on
the next flight and landed in Melbourne, didour 14 days quarantine, and then by the time
we'd left quarantine, we only had about fivehours with my mum before she passed. So…
yeah.OF: Still worth it. Still worth it.
(40:44):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I know that she waited for us, to hold her newest grandchild.
The flights, the quarantine, the racing aroundthe world, every second was absolutely worth
it.OF: Let me then pivot to talking about what
our original episode was about, which wasmainly about your identity in the community
(41:04):
of FitFam.VV: Yeah.
OF (41:05):
That was a community that you had helped to set up in Shanghai, and then it had grown.
So tell me, what is your status now? BecauseI remember when we last talked, you were pregnant.
So you had taken a step away from being activein FitFam yourself, but you were doing more
of that kind of behind the scenes work.VV: Yeah.
So how would you describe your involvement these days?
VV (41:25):
Still very hands on. Still doing less operational day-to-day stuff. So I'm still
leading workouts. I do them virtually, sowe do have quite a big virtual calendar at
the moment. And now we are in 22 cities globally.So our global community will grow from Shanghai
losing a lot of the foreigners, which is unfortunateand fortunate at the same time.
OF (41:48):
I totally hear you. Yeah, it's going to be a little bit of rebuilding from the destruction,
but it's going to emerge very strong. You'regoing to suddenly have all of these people
who understand the FitFam culture from Shanghaipopping up all around the world, able to create
new communities, and it'll blossom into somethingwhich otherwise might not have globalised
(42:08):
quite so quickly.VV: Yeah, absolutely.
So it might end up being almost better for you, right?
VV (42:13):
Yes, yes. And because we've been always so China-focused, we're having to pivot and
really think globally, bringing in differenttypes of workouts. And, you know, the secret
sauce is still there. We still love what we'redoing, it’s still always run by volunteers,
and we just want to provide free fitness.OF: Yeah. Well Vy, pleasure to speak to you
(42:35):
again. I love that even though we are separatedby many oceans, we have this excuse to catch
up at least once a year. So let's continuedoing that as we go into future seasons of
Mosaic of China.VV: Absolutely. So good to see you.
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