July 19, 2021 • 37 mins
Coinciding with the 100-year anniversary of the founding of the Chinese Communist Party, it's fitting that today's episode includes a family history that spans a similar historical timeframe. Salome Chen is a child of the 清 [Qīng] and 明 [Míng] Dynasties, as well as a child of the modern Chinese property boom. So in many ways she personifies the quirky mix of tradition and moderniity of today's China. The episode also includes a catch-up interview with Lori Li from Season 01 Episode 10. (https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-10-lori-li). Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:17 - Part 1 19:39 - Part 2 28:27 - Outro 31:29 - Catch-Up Interview Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-24-salome-chen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
[Trailer]SC: I hate plants. They scare me.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast aboutpeople who are making their mark in China.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Today's guest Salome Chen is an original.She has a fascinating family background,
(00:22):
she's a proud feminist, she's an academic...you know what, I can't try to encapsulate our
conversation in this intro, so I'm not evengoing to try. What I will say is that on the
day of our recording, the studio suddenlywent on the fritz five minutes before we
were due to start, so we had to quicklyrace across Shanghai to my apartment,
where we ended up recording this episode. A bigthanks to Salome for being a good sport. And to
(00:46):
you, have fun listening out for any backgroundnoises, especially from the school next door.
This episode is coming out just after the 100year anniversary of the founding of the Chinese
Communist Party, and so it's fitting that partof Salome's story deals with her family history.
Just a quick note for anyone who needs reminding,
the last two dynasties before the Revolution inChina were the 明 [Míng] followed by the 清 [Qīng].
(01:12):
The 明 [Míng] were 汉 [Hàn] Chinese, andthe 清 [Qīng] were ethnically Manchurian.
[Part 1]OF:
Well, thank you so much Salome.SC: My pleasure.
OF (01:22):
I am here with Salome Chen. And what would you call yourself these days?
SC (01:27):
Oh, it's difficult. I’m just a small entrepreneur
trying to do whatever is interesting for me.OF: OK, let's talk about how you got to this
position. You have a very interesting background.SC: OK.
OF (01:41):
The first question I would ask you is the same question I ask everyone which is,
what is the object that you have preparedthat in some way describes your life in China?
SC (01:52):
I don't know what you would call this, a wallet or a card folder? It's a TUMI.
OF (01:59):
OK, Yes. SC
I was preparing to build my first company.You know, I studied in Germany, so
luxury brands, I don't give a ****.Oh, sorry for the dirty word, but…
But hang on, isn’t TUMI a German brand? SC
OK. SC
(02:20):
student. And I was an engineer, I didn’t care.OF: Oh wait, so where were you in 2009,
you were in Germany?SC: No, in Beijing.
In Beijing, OK. SC
who wanted to pay a visit to Europe. He didn'tspeak English, so he invited me to go with him.
I caught up with him in Barcelona. Sowe went to a really expensive Spanish
(02:45):
restaurant, which everyone enjoyed. We drank a lotof extremely expensive French wine. I don't know
what it was, I'm not a drinker. On the secondday we were walking down the street. Suddenly
he grabbed hold of a tree, and told me “Take me toMcDonald’s.” I was like “Holy hell, what's going
on?” “I'm hungry, I didn't like the breakfastat the hotel”. That was a five star hotel. So
(03:10):
I took him to McDonald's. And not far from therewas this TUMI shop. So he's energetic, he wanted
to buy everything. So it was the first time in mywhole life that they locked down the whole shop.
Oh. SC
Because he asked them to, or… SC
wanted to buy so many things, that kindof shop never had so much business.
(03:30):
Yes. SC
Pick any bag you like.” You know, Chinese girls,they always like bags. But my family's not
like that, we don't like to take things frompeople. But he didn't allow me to refuse. So
I just picked the cheapest one. It’s this one.OF: That's a great story. And it touches upon a
(03:53):
lot about what I want to talk to you about today.And specifically, you know, your life working
with these ultra-rich real estate developers.Because that was your background in Beijing,
right? You were in real estate.SC: Yeah.
Why don't we start with that part of your story then. So tell me about your time in Beijing.
SC (04:10):
You know, when you look back, you feel like… it wasn't my life.
OF (04:15):
Right. SC
Right. SC
Because you're not from Beijing? SC
Right. SC
I’m even one eighth 满 [Mǎn]. Even…OF: Ah, Manchurian.
SC (04:33):
Manchurian, yeah. We’re actually from the 爱新觉罗 [‘Aisin-Gioro’] family, but I'm sure not
the royal family. No.OF: Wow, OK.
Yeah, so… OF
Are you actually a princess?SC: No way.
OF (04:46):
OK, so you were returning to your northern roots.
SC (04:50):
Yeah, I was a regional planner, I worked with GIS…
OF (04:53):
Which is what? SC
on big maps. All the information, you calculateall the data. I was an environmental engineer,
and I studied hydraulics also. And I was veryinterested in socio-economics-related planning. No
(05:16):
one understood that, so I went into real estate.OF: Because I guess in China back then,
the real estate boom hadn't happened yet.SC: It had just happened. So they needed a lot of
people, all from different fields.OF: Right, I see.
SC (05:30):
Yeah. OF
an industry that was booming.SC: It just boomed.
OF (05:33):
Yeah, right. SC
you do business development. So I wentto work for this private equity firm. And
we bought buildings, and converted them intoserviced apartments and hotels. Really luxury.
Right, this is where we start to deal with the kinds of people you mentioned in your story.
SC (05:58):
Yeah. OF
because you came from an engineering - veryscientific - background. And now you were
thrust into this life of excess and luxury.SC: Yeah. The job is fun, also. And I always
enjoyed researching hotels, how the functionsare, how you should do the programme. You get to
(06:21):
understand what society really is. You know, whatyou read in classes, that's not real. You have
to really understand what small details changepeople's mindset. There were a lot of difficulties
between the serviced apartment group, theinvestors, the management group, the constructors.
(06:47):
We even ran out of cash in the middle, and wedidn't have cash to pay employees for almost
six months. You just remember the way we didthe forecast: they did 5-10 year forecasting,
they wrote down all these occupancy rates so high- 80%, 90%, 95% - because we didn’t have many five
(07:15):
star hotels, or many serviced apartments.That was something really new in China.
So you believed “Well, they can do that”.OF: Yeah. Because that's my image of real
estate in general, there's a lot of puff. Youknow, you have to say “It's going to be 80%
occupied, 90% occupied.” But based on what, right?SC: Yeah, the thing is, how to analyse the macro
(07:42):
world. How, for example, the politics inthe States, like now, will have influence
on your own small business? You don’tknow. And meanwhile, we enjoyed our time.
Work hard, play harder. Living in a verycolourful way. And also, because of the Olympics,
(08:04):
you had a lot of openings. Of buildings, ofshops, all those luxury brands came to China.
And I got invitations. You know, I realisedin the fashion business, they invite a lot
of comparatively young and stylish people toparties, to create the scene. You were the tool
(08:28):
to create the scene. But then the trafficbecame worse and worse. Also the pollution.
Finally, I couldn’t live there anymore. So I gotan opportunity to work for another private equity
firm in Shanghai. So I went back to Shanghai.OF: OK. Before we go on to your story about
(08:52):
Shanghai, let's go backwards now.SC: Yeah.
OF (08:54):
So tell me about your background. Tell me about your family.
SC (08:56):
Oh, my family is progressive conservative. OF
My dad's family, we were officials in the 明 [Míng] Dynasty. So they decided not to
surrender to the 清 [Qīng]Dynasty, and moved to Shanghai.
(09:18):
We bought a lot of land. And also we had threesea ships for shipping goods; famous brands;
I don't know, hundreds of houses; and we alsohad a law firm, one of the earliest law firms
in Shanghai. So it was a scholar family, Iwould say. My grandma’s grandad didn't want to
(09:41):
pay the tuition fee for the girls - that's theconservation part - but my grandmother is a very
powerful, strong, lady. Super smart. So sheargued, and the family said that if she did
a law major then they would pay her universitytuition fee. Otherwise, no. And she decided to
(10:09):
go to a normal school, and pay everythingby herself. Yeah. And didn't give up.
And that's my grandmother. She was really a stronglady. And she got married to my grandfather.
In the Second World War, my grandfatherhad a war wife. In China actually, we
(10:33):
never really had this multi-wife system.But in the Second World War time, it was
allowed. So my grandma helped to build upan education business here in Shanghai,
and was independent. Even after 1949, whenmy grandfather divorced the other wife,
(10:57):
she didn't take him back.OF: Wow, OK.
So in this way, you can see how… I always say, I'm very proud to be a feminist. That's my family.
And for my mom's family, they were officialsof the 清 [Qīng] Dynasty. My mom's father
was a famous doctor and had his own hospital.You know, if you were a hospital director,
(11:21):
basically you become Catholic. And thefamily was more Western style, yeah.
OF (11:29):
And so going to your parents then, what did your parents do?
SC (11:33):
It was also complex. My dad was super smart, so he didn't finish his university, and was chosen
out to study the atom bomb, doing research.OF: The atom bomb?
Yeah. OF
But then, he became right wing - that meant being an enemy of the
(11:54):
country - and was 22 years in prison.OF: Wow.
Yeah. Then he just became a high school teacher. And my mom, she never went to a
real university, because of her family background.OF: At that time, of course,
if you were powerful, then you were a target.SC: If you were a scholar, if you were catholic,
(12:18):
if you were not in the extremelower class, you were the enemy.
OF (12:24):
Yes. SC
And then she also became a teacher, teaching highschool. And then she quit her job in 1978 and
went back to her hometown in 天津 [Tiānjīn]. She wasnumber one of the whole city. Then my mom did her
college degree, and actually she went on towork as a library director for almost 10 years.
(12:51):
OK. And then along comes you. You're the daughter of an atom bomb researcher,
and a first class student.SC: Yeah.
I can see now why you went into environmental engineering. Was that always going to happen?
SC (13:04):
No, you know, China was quite isolated. Since I was eight years old,
I read the biography of Fermi.OF: Oh, you mean the physicist?
Yeah, the physicist. OF
Yeah. So in my mind, you have to study maths and physics. That's something.
But then suddenly, I heard this word “architect.”I didn't really know what ‘architect’ means.
(13:27):
The architect sounded like a nice job. So I wantedto be an architect. And then we had a big fight
at home. My dad was like “No, you don't wantto be an architect. You’re not an engineer,
you’re not an artist”. And my dad was like “Ifyou want to be an architect, get out of my house.”
I was 17. So we negotiated and I went to同济 [Tóngjì] University. And they had no
(13:54):
hydraulics department - because my uncles andaunties were quite famous hydraulic engineers
from 清华 [‘Tsinghua’] University - and thething closest to hydraulics was ‘Water Supply,
Drainage and the Environment’.OF: Were you passionate about
the environment at that time?SC: No, I hate plants. They scare
(14:16):
me. I spent my childhood was my dad's mom. So shewas very old. My parents were in a different city.
So no-one really took me out. We didn'thave many children's books at home.
So I read a lot of Chinese ancient ghost stories,in which all these special flowers became ghosts.
OF (14:39):
In ghost stories, the flowers were ghosts? SC
Everyone who is listening would know that, if they're Chinese?
SC (14:46):
Yeah. OF
And I don't understand why people always think that plants are something romantic and
beautiful. For me, they’re really scary and sick.OF: OK. So ever since you've read these ghost
books, you've been scared of plants?SC: Yeah.
OF (15:05):
What about your house now? SC
to throw them out, or I ask my 阿姨 [Āyí] to do it.OF: OK, I'm gonna have to test this now,
and see if there are otherpeople who are scared of plants.
Otherwise, have you ever met anyone else?SC: Not really.
(15:25):
So you don't like plants, and then you went into environmental engineering.
SC (15:30):
That’s a disaster. OF
Yeah. OF
end up in Germany? That was part of your story.SC: Because 同济 [Tóngjì] was founded by Germans
in 1907. So it's kind of a tradition. And UniStuttgart is the best in hydraulic engineering,
and also very famous in environmentalengineering. And we got invitations to send
(15:54):
students there. That's how I want to Germany.OF: Well, thank you. Let's fast forward back
then. So you had moved from Beijing,and you're going back to Shanghai.
Yes. OF
Yes. I worked for a private equity firm. But there was so much
(16:14):
money floating everywhere. So all the biginvestors - all these big financial groups - they
wanted to buy licences, they didn't want to investin heavy industry. During my time in Beijing,
it was basically ‘real estate, real estate, realestate’. But after maybe 2012, people started to
(16:39):
use all different kinds of financial tools. Sosome people can do huge business. And for the
middle/lower classes, it became more difficult.OF: Yes, that makes sense. And is it also a
function of… everything was already built, andthere were fewer projects in terms of just the
(17:01):
simple ‘real estate, real estate real estate’?SC: No, the thing is, like, for example,
you can never have enoughinfrastructure. But for infrastructure,
you don't earn money from it. So peoplemade up stories to sell residences. It's
not balanced. So it relies very much on leverage.The most support you get is from the bank.
(17:29):
So if politics change, if macropolicies change, that means a huge risk.
And you cannot diversify your risk.OF: Right. Which just makes the
whole environment much more complicated.SC: Yeah, you really need long-lasting government
support, and very stable policy. Which meansthat private investors would hesitate to invest.
OF (17:56):
I'm looking at the time, let me finish by asking you then,
what projects are you working on today?SC: Basically, my company, we build certain
projects, and one of them includes an exhibitionhall. And it's a technology one, but I tried to
make it very ‘arty’ and ‘storytelling’. Yeah, I’mputting together different technology projects,
(18:21):
and making them into a cluster of stories.OF: So this is almost going back to your
first dream of being an architect,you can now really work in that area.
SC (18:31):
I hired some good architects to work as interior designers,
because they have a better understanding ofstructure and space. And architects have more
training in engineering and technology. Sothey can understand why I want to combine all
these different technologies together. Yeah.OF: And when will this project be online?
(18:54):
Difficult. Yeah. We… OF
a very difficult time, as you say. Like, there's
no knowing what will happen in the future.SC: Yeah. But for example… I cannot get into
much detail, but we are also influencedby the Chinese/American relationship.
(19:14):
So there's a payment problem. And also,it's a government-sponsored project.
So there will definitely be a lot more proceduresto through, some I know, some I don't yet.
OF (19:29):
Yes. SC
Well, good luck. We will definitely keep in touch. I want to see this project being built
in the future.SC: Yeah.
Thank you, Salome. We will move on to Part 2. SC
[Part 2]OF:
Let's go, very quickly. Are you ready?SC: Yeah.
We have a short amount of time, so we'll race through this. Question 1,
what is your favourite China-related fact?SC: 江南 [Jiāngnán], which we use to refer
(19:53):
to the 长江 [‘Yangtze’] Delta region.You go somewhere warmer and green,
it arouses this nostalgic feeling. Yeah.OF: So 江南 [Jiāngnán], what is that area?
SC (20:06):
Shanghai and maybe part of 浙江 [Zhèjiāng] Province and the
south part of 江苏 [Jiāngsū] Province. Yeah.OF: They are culturally, they're historically,
connected, aren’t they.SC: Yeah.
OF (20:14):
Because we don't use really ‘江南 [Jiāngnán]’ very often, do we? Or do you hear that a lot?
SC (20:18):
When we talk, when you speak, you don't use it that much. But when you write,
it's still very poetic. People use ita lot, a lot. Since I was one year old,
and not in the city centre but in thissmall town which was owned by my family,
you have these old relationships between people,and all these rivers around. It's peaceful. Yeah.
OF (20:41):
Right, next question. Do you have a favourite word or phrase in
Chinese? That you like to teach people, maybe?SC: Yeah, 设身处地 [shèshēn chǔ dì], which means ‘put
yourself in someone else's shoes’.OF: Right.
SC (20:53):
It's very easy to be judgmental. I'm very judgmental. But you have to put yourself in other
people's situation and try to understand.This makes you have a much wider world.
It’s my moral standard. Yeah.OF: Yeah. Question 3. What is
(21:13):
your favourite destination within China?SC: I will say the Silk Road. Yeah. I was
born in 玉门 [Yùmén]…OF: Which is where?
It's close to 敦煌 [Dūnhuáng]. OF
Very west. And not only because I was born there, I went there when I was 40 exactly,
for my birthday. And also my dad was 80, it wasmore like a birthday gift for my dad. Beautiful,
(21:41):
yeah. And also, there are so many differentcultures there, there’s cultural communication.
I love history, and that's beautiful.OF: Right. Because that whole area is
squeezed in between 新疆 [Xīnjiāng] and then Tibet,
and then Mongolia.SC: Yeah.
OF (21:54):
You’ve got everything there, haven’t you. SC
you can see the landscape change, the culturechange, the language change; and even people,
they look different. If you go deep intohistory, the world becomes much much bigger.
Yes. SC
Wonderful. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?
SC (22:15):
My parents. For me, people are always the most important thing. And of course,
then I wouldn't miss those populists.OF: Oh what do you mean? Oh, populists.
Yeah, you know what I mean. OF
right? If we were in the UK, I would saythe same thing about people there, right?
Yeah. OF
(22:35):
still surprises you about life in China?SC: No, not really. Become my grandma
always taught me to keep calm and not besurprised. And I’ve got used to that attitude.
If there is anything new or very differenthappening, I will just try to analyse why. Yeah.
OF (22:53):
Yeah, that's definitely the scientific side of you. What is your favourite place
to go out, to eat or drink or just hang out?SC: Maybe the riverside, the west bank. Because,
I told you, I had this colourful expensive lifeback in Beijing. A lot of parties, drinks. And I’m
(23:16):
kinda tired of that. So I miss my childhood,this peace and the connection with local people.
So I chose to live not too far from the river, andin the morning sometimes I go jogging along it.
You see all these big ships, slowly moving there.And that's the industrial part of Shanghai,
(23:40):
and it's something more stable.OF: Right. It’s much more real, right?
SC (23:45):
Yeah. OF
or worst purchase you've recently made?SC: I'm not really a shopper. I hate
going shopping with girlfriends, that drives mecrazy. So normally, I make a list. I know what
I want, I go to the shop, I pick up things, andI go. The last thing I really liked was my ring.
OF (24:07):
Oh, nice. I can see it. SC
I told my husband “If you buy me a Tiffanyor whatever, I will not marry you”.
I was not nice to him. Every gift he bought me, Iwas like “Oh, this is expensive”. You know, “It’s
not worth that much”. I'm very into art, I lovemuseums, my preference is a very practical thing,
(24:33):
or something really designed, meaningful. So Itold my husband, I have a friend called Paloma
in Beijing. She had her own store and does thedesign. And the nice thing is she even built a
factory in Ethiopia to help local people who weredumped by their husbands who got diamonds and left
(24:58):
their families. I was so touched by this story,and her design is brilliant. So I told my husband
“Either I get a ring from her, or I don't want aring”. I don't mind if I'm married without a ring,
I’m Chinese. So we went to Paloma, and Itold her to the style that maybe I wanted, so
(25:19):
she designed it for me.OF: And that's the ring.
SC (25:21):
Yeah, that's the ring. OF
I'm OK, right. OF
If you put romantic meaning onto these small details, you don't really get anything big.
OF (25:34):
Right, right. SC
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? OK, send it to me now.
SC (25:40):
Ah. OF
I like the one with sunglasses. Because I enjoy mocking people slightly.
OF (25:50):
Oh. SC
So this is you saying “Cool”. But really, you're saying “Hmm”.
SC (25:56):
Huhuhuh. OF
next question, what is your favourite KTV song?SC: Sorry, I don't sing songs. I'm a terrible
singer. For me, it was like, I didn't know I was aterrible singer. You know, when you’re a kid, you
don't know. You just try to sing songs. And I wasa good student. So when we had this music exam,
(26:20):
I did the paperwork very well. Full score, always.And my teacher told me "You don't need to sing,
you passed the exam”. And really, she just letme pass the exam. 60 exactly. Not even 61. How
bad does that mean? My dad was a good singer, butmy mom was terrible. So I think maybe I followed
(26:42):
my mom. Yeah. If you ask me to sing… I don't know.OF: This is why this is still a good question,
because I got a good storyfrom that. And you can't be
good at everything. Do you accept that now?SC: I always accepted that. Just my parents
wanted me to be good at everything. I'm not.OF: Very good. And finally, what other
(27:04):
China-related media sources do you rely on?SC: I have a lot of people who work in the
media field on my Moments. Especially because Ilived in Beijing, so I know a lot of people there
who get to know certain things. And you know, inBeijing you have the rumours, different kind of
rumours all around. So I get trained (27:24):
you hear something, you analyse it with your experience,
you do some research by yourself. Yeah,I try not to read so much Chinese media.
OF (27:37):
Yeah. Thank you so much Salome, what a fascinating conversation. I don't know how to
actually classify it. We went into so manydifferent details. The last thing I will
do is to ask you, out of everyone you know inChina, who do you recommend that I interview in
the next season of Mosaic of China?SC: Sam. He's like a trip advisor.
(28:00):
He does all this planning for travellerswho want to get a deeper understanding of
a place. Sam is someone who really lovesculture and loves people, so he tries to
explore things with his beautifuleyes. He has beautiful blue eyes,
that's how I got to know him. Really.OF: Wonderful. Well I look forward to meeting Sam.
(28:24):
And thank you so much, Salome.SC: Yeah. Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So I have one major correction to make,
and it was to a comment I made right off the bat.No, TUMI is not a German brand. I don't know where
I got that from, it was actually founded by anAmerican who had been in the Peace Corps in Peru,
(28:45):
and is named after a Peruvian ceremonial knife. Soactually in researching that mistake I discovered
a link to the Peruvian healer Katherine Wongfrom Episode 04 of the season, and also to
last week's episode with DJ BO, who was also inthe Peace Corps, not in Peru but in Mongolia.
As for other connections, Salome's commentson the China real estate market were also
(29:09):
reflected in the episode with Wendy Saunders,the architect from Episode 12 from this series;
her favourite hangout by the 黄埔 [Huángpù] riverin Shanghai was the same as that of Michelle Qu,
the improvisational comedianfrom a few weeks ago, Episode 20;
and Salome's favourite WeChat stickerwas actually not a sticker at all,
but one of the WeChat emojis, just likewith the brand namer Vladimir Djurovic
(29:33):
from Season 02 Episode 13, or the fitnesscommunity leader Vy Vu from Season 01 Episode 08.
As always, you can find images from today'sepisode on the Mosaic of China website,
or on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. Apart fromher object - the TUMI credit card holder - there
are also photos of where Salome was born, in herhometown of 玉门 [Yùmén] in 甘肃 [Gānsù] province;
(29:59):
some of her parents and theother relatives she mentioned;
her wedding ring; and plenty more besides. Andif you're at the website you'll also be able
to see how to subscribe to the PREMIUMversion of the show, which includes an
average of 10-15 minutes per episode. Here aresome clips from today's full-length version.
[Clip 1]SC: So I asked my husband
(30:19):
“Where’s 枝江 [Zhījiāng]?” He was like “Oh, that'sthe airport of 宜昌 [Yíchāng].” I was like “What?”
[Clip 2]SC: So you have to really read the news,
and then really know what you’re reading.[Clip 3]
SC (30:29):
I was like “Bull****, I’ll give you a difficult one”. That's how ‘Salome’ came
to my mind.[Clip 4]
For me, they’re totally not pretentious. When they are nice to you,
you know that's something you can trust.[Clip 5]
Beijing really shocked me. I went there, and it was totally not what I had imagined.
[Clip 6]OF: So you thought
you were being polite, butactually you were insulting her.
(30:50):
Yeah. [Clip 7] SC
of the guys who proposed to me.OF: You're kidding.
No. [End of Audio Clips]
And that's all for this week. Mosaic of China isme, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell.
I'm taking a planned summer vacation next week,so we'll be back for Episode 25 of the Season
on August 3rd. But before then, coming rightup is a catch-up with the luxury club GM
(31:14):
Lori Li from Episode 10 of last season. So staytuned for that, and I'll see you next time.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello, Lori.
LL (31:33):
Hello. OF
Me too. OF
you were telling me about how you managed theprivate member's club during the economic crisis.
Yeah. OF
crisis. So I really wanted to ask you, how did youcope with Yongfoo Elite during the Coronavirus?
(31:57):
Oh, actually we decided to open a new lab. We invited Chinese chefs who were working
in Michelin 2-Star or 3-Star restaurants abroad.We invited them to come back to China, to our lab,
and to do Chinese food research. And then some ofthem got stuck in China because of the virus. So
(32:22):
they can't go to Japan, they can’t go toFrance, to their previous restaurants. So
they stayed in our lab for this whole year.OF: Oh, gosh. So their plan was a few weeks,
and they ended up being here the whole year.LL: Yeah.
OF (32:34):
Well, that's kind of good news for you, right? LL
additional bonus for us. But we really appreciateall the new blood. They’re doing very well,
making a modern twist of traditional Chinese food.And actually, I think it's also a good time for
(32:59):
all F&B companies to make internal adjustmentsand internal training initiatives. Because you
can't do outside marketing, but you have likea time window to do some adjustments. Like us,
we did the whole food research, it was like threemonths that we didn’t open up the restaurant,
(33:21):
we only did the food research.OF: Right. And did you see - emerging
from Coronavirus in China - did you see a newversion, a new definition of luxury? Or did we
snap back to what you were talkingabout before, where luxury was about
spending time in nature, spendingtime with family? Was that something
(33:41):
which you saw continue after Coronavirus?LL: Yeah, after this crisis, I think most people
think more about life itself. Howto be happier. Everybody actually
changed their values a little bit. Yeah.OF: Right. I've heard that, that people are
now a little bit more health conscious, even now.LL: Yeah, yeah. People became more and more
(34:06):
conscious about their body, consciousabout their mind. And I heard that
everybody is going to the hospital to doa little bit of face adjustment. The other
reason is that everyone is wearing masks,so they have a good chance to recover,
and people will not recognise anything different.OF: That’s so funny. So just like how you went
(34:29):
into your lab and did R&D during Coronavirus,people are going to the cosmetic surgery lab,
and are changing their faces.LL: Yeah, yeah.
Is that really true? LL
he's in this industry, he told us.OF: Wow. Well maybe you did that. Lori,
because you're looking wonderful.LL: I said it’s like, everybody
(34:52):
wants to do everything now. Yeah. Theydon't want to wait for anything, they
realise that time is really limited.OF: Yes. And that's something which
we've experienced in China, which I hope therest of the world will also get to. Where you
do see some return to normal, and you really dounderstand the value of the things that maybe
(35:12):
you took for granted before. And then what aboutyou personally? We've talked about your business,
how about you, did you have a toughyear? Was it, for you, a year where
you learnt something new about yourself?LL: Oh, because I had plenty of time during the
virus period, I started writing again.OF: Nice.
LL (35:32):
Yeah. I used to be a writer, and in 15 years I haven't really created anything like a novel. And
now this year, every day I have had 3-5 hours tobe totally by myself. So I started writing again.
Now I’ve almost finished a middle-sized novel.OF: Amazing.
(35:54):
Yeah. OF
with publishers, or are you still in early stages?LL: I already showed a part of it to some
publishers, but I'm not in any urgency to publish.OF: Yeah, I guess it's more for yourself, right?
Yeah. But it's a good start. It stimulates me to write more and more. Now I'm already planning
(36:20):
the second novel.OF: OK.
Yeah. OF
It's making me think that I have not used myCoronavirus time as well as you. Thank you, Lori.
And we are going to be releasing this episodealongside one of the new episodes in Season
02. Unfortunately the person who you recommended,Wang Fang, she couldn't make it into this season.
(36:44):
OK. OF
to find a very good replacement. So I look forwardto you listening to the replacement. And it's just
been a pleasure to get back in touch with you andto see your face. We have met actually a few times
since your recording. I want to say thankyou again for being part of this project.
And I hope that we continue to stay in touch.LL: Thank you. It is my great honour.
[Trailer]SC: I hate plants. They scare me.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast aboutpeople who are making their mark in China.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Today's guest Salome Chen is an original.She has a fascinating family background,
(00:22):
she's a proud feminist, she's an academic...you know what, I can't try to encapsulate our
conversation in this intro, so I'm not evengoing to try. What I will say is that on the
day of our recording, the studio suddenlywent on the fritz five minutes before we
were due to start, so we had to quicklyrace across Shanghai to my apartment,
where we ended up recording this episode. A bigthanks to Salome for being a good sport. And to
(00:46):
you, have fun listening out for any backgroundnoises, especially from the school next door.
This episode is coming out just after the 100year anniversary of the founding of the Chinese
Communist Party, and so it's fitting that partof Salome's story deals with her family history.
Just a quick note for anyone who needs reminding,
the last two dynasties before the Revolution inChina were the 明 [Míng] followed by the 清 [Qīng].
(01:12):
The 明 [Míng] were 汉 [Hàn] Chinese, andthe 清 [Qīng] were ethnically Manchurian.
[Part 1]OF:
Well, thank you so much Salome.SC: My pleasure.
OF (01:22):
I am here with Salome Chen. And what would you call yourself these days?
SC (01:27):
Oh, it's difficult. I’m just a small entrepreneur
trying to do whatever is interesting for me.OF: OK, let's talk about how you got to this
position. You have a very interesting background.SC: OK.
OF (01:41):
The first question I would ask you is the same question I ask everyone which is,
what is the object that you have preparedthat in some way describes your life in China?
SC (01:52):
I don't know what you would call this, a wallet or a card folder? It's a TUMI.
OF (01:59):
OK, Yes. SC
I was preparing to build my first company.You know, I studied in Germany, so
luxury brands, I don't give a ****.Oh, sorry for the dirty word, but…
But hang on, isn’t TUMI a German brand? SC
OK. SC
(02:20):
student. And I was an engineer, I didn’t care.OF: Oh wait, so where were you in 2009,
you were in Germany?SC: No, in Beijing.
In Beijing, OK. SC
who wanted to pay a visit to Europe. He didn'tspeak English, so he invited me to go with him.
I caught up with him in Barcelona. Sowe went to a really expensive Spanish
(02:45):
restaurant, which everyone enjoyed. We drank a lotof extremely expensive French wine. I don't know
what it was, I'm not a drinker. On the secondday we were walking down the street. Suddenly
he grabbed hold of a tree, and told me “Take me toMcDonald’s.” I was like “Holy hell, what's going
on?” “I'm hungry, I didn't like the breakfastat the hotel”. That was a five star hotel. So
(03:10):
I took him to McDonald's. And not far from therewas this TUMI shop. So he's energetic, he wanted
to buy everything. So it was the first time in mywhole life that they locked down the whole shop.
Oh. SC
Because he asked them to, or… SC
wanted to buy so many things, that kindof shop never had so much business.
(03:30):
Yes. SC
Pick any bag you like.” You know, Chinese girls,they always like bags. But my family's not
like that, we don't like to take things frompeople. But he didn't allow me to refuse. So
I just picked the cheapest one. It’s this one.OF: That's a great story. And it touches upon a
(03:53):
lot about what I want to talk to you about today.And specifically, you know, your life working
with these ultra-rich real estate developers.Because that was your background in Beijing,
right? You were in real estate.SC: Yeah.
Why don't we start with that part of your story then. So tell me about your time in Beijing.
SC (04:10):
You know, when you look back, you feel like… it wasn't my life.
OF (04:15):
Right. SC
Right. SC
Because you're not from Beijing? SC
Right. SC
I’m even one eighth 满 [Mǎn]. Even…OF: Ah, Manchurian.
SC (04:33):
Manchurian, yeah. We’re actually from the 爱新觉罗 [‘Aisin-Gioro’] family, but I'm sure not
the royal family. No.OF: Wow, OK.
Yeah, so… OF
Are you actually a princess?SC: No way.
OF (04:46):
OK, so you were returning to your northern roots.
SC (04:50):
Yeah, I was a regional planner, I worked with GIS…
OF (04:53):
Which is what? SC
on big maps. All the information, you calculateall the data. I was an environmental engineer,
and I studied hydraulics also. And I was veryinterested in socio-economics-related planning. No
(05:16):
one understood that, so I went into real estate.OF: Because I guess in China back then,
the real estate boom hadn't happened yet.SC: It had just happened. So they needed a lot of
people, all from different fields.OF: Right, I see.
SC (05:30):
Yeah. OF
an industry that was booming.SC: It just boomed.
OF (05:33):
Yeah, right. SC
you do business development. So I wentto work for this private equity firm. And
we bought buildings, and converted them intoserviced apartments and hotels. Really luxury.
Right, this is where we start to deal with the kinds of people you mentioned in your story.
SC (05:58):
Yeah. OF
because you came from an engineering - veryscientific - background. And now you were
thrust into this life of excess and luxury.SC: Yeah. The job is fun, also. And I always
enjoyed researching hotels, how the functionsare, how you should do the programme. You get to
(06:21):
understand what society really is. You know, whatyou read in classes, that's not real. You have
to really understand what small details changepeople's mindset. There were a lot of difficulties
between the serviced apartment group, theinvestors, the management group, the constructors.
(06:47):
We even ran out of cash in the middle, and wedidn't have cash to pay employees for almost
six months. You just remember the way we didthe forecast: they did 5-10 year forecasting,
they wrote down all these occupancy rates so high- 80%, 90%, 95% - because we didn’t have many five
(07:15):
star hotels, or many serviced apartments.That was something really new in China.
So you believed “Well, they can do that”.OF: Yeah. Because that's my image of real
estate in general, there's a lot of puff. Youknow, you have to say “It's going to be 80%
occupied, 90% occupied.” But based on what, right?SC: Yeah, the thing is, how to analyse the macro
(07:42):
world. How, for example, the politics inthe States, like now, will have influence
on your own small business? You don’tknow. And meanwhile, we enjoyed our time.
Work hard, play harder. Living in a verycolourful way. And also, because of the Olympics,
(08:04):
you had a lot of openings. Of buildings, ofshops, all those luxury brands came to China.
And I got invitations. You know, I realisedin the fashion business, they invite a lot
of comparatively young and stylish people toparties, to create the scene. You were the tool
(08:28):
to create the scene. But then the trafficbecame worse and worse. Also the pollution.
Finally, I couldn’t live there anymore. So I gotan opportunity to work for another private equity
firm in Shanghai. So I went back to Shanghai.OF: OK. Before we go on to your story about
(08:52):
Shanghai, let's go backwards now.SC: Yeah.
OF (08:54):
So tell me about your background. Tell me about your family.
SC (08:56):
Oh, my family is progressive conservative. OF
My dad's family, we were officials in the 明 [Míng] Dynasty. So they decided not to
surrender to the 清 [Qīng]Dynasty, and moved to Shanghai.
(09:18):
We bought a lot of land. And also we had threesea ships for shipping goods; famous brands;
I don't know, hundreds of houses; and we alsohad a law firm, one of the earliest law firms
in Shanghai. So it was a scholar family, Iwould say. My grandma’s grandad didn't want to
(09:41):
pay the tuition fee for the girls - that's theconservation part - but my grandmother is a very
powerful, strong, lady. Super smart. So sheargued, and the family said that if she did
a law major then they would pay her universitytuition fee. Otherwise, no. And she decided to
(10:09):
go to a normal school, and pay everythingby herself. Yeah. And didn't give up.
And that's my grandmother. She was really a stronglady. And she got married to my grandfather.
In the Second World War, my grandfatherhad a war wife. In China actually, we
(10:33):
never really had this multi-wife system.But in the Second World War time, it was
allowed. So my grandma helped to build upan education business here in Shanghai,
and was independent. Even after 1949, whenmy grandfather divorced the other wife,
(10:57):
she didn't take him back.OF: Wow, OK.
So in this way, you can see how… I always say, I'm very proud to be a feminist. That's my family.
And for my mom's family, they were officialsof the 清 [Qīng] Dynasty. My mom's father
was a famous doctor and had his own hospital.You know, if you were a hospital director,
(11:21):
basically you become Catholic. And thefamily was more Western style, yeah.
OF (11:29):
And so going to your parents then, what did your parents do?
SC (11:33):
It was also complex. My dad was super smart, so he didn't finish his university, and was chosen
out to study the atom bomb, doing research.OF: The atom bomb?
Yeah. OF
But then, he became right wing - that meant being an enemy of the
(11:54):
country - and was 22 years in prison.OF: Wow.
Yeah. Then he just became a high school teacher. And my mom, she never went to a
real university, because of her family background.OF: At that time, of course,
if you were powerful, then you were a target.SC: If you were a scholar, if you were catholic,
(12:18):
if you were not in the extremelower class, you were the enemy.
OF (12:24):
Yes. SC
And then she also became a teacher, teaching highschool. And then she quit her job in 1978 and
went back to her hometown in 天津 [Tiānjīn]. She wasnumber one of the whole city. Then my mom did her
college degree, and actually she went on towork as a library director for almost 10 years.
(12:51):
OK. And then along comes you. You're the daughter of an atom bomb researcher,
and a first class student.SC: Yeah.
I can see now why you went into environmental engineering. Was that always going to happen?
SC (13:04):
No, you know, China was quite isolated. Since I was eight years old,
I read the biography of Fermi.OF: Oh, you mean the physicist?
Yeah, the physicist. OF
Yeah. So in my mind, you have to study maths and physics. That's something.
But then suddenly, I heard this word “architect.”I didn't really know what ‘architect’ means.
(13:27):
The architect sounded like a nice job. So I wantedto be an architect. And then we had a big fight
at home. My dad was like “No, you don't wantto be an architect. You’re not an engineer,
you’re not an artist”. And my dad was like “Ifyou want to be an architect, get out of my house.”
I was 17. So we negotiated and I went to同济 [Tóngjì] University. And they had no
(13:54):
hydraulics department - because my uncles andaunties were quite famous hydraulic engineers
from 清华 [‘Tsinghua’] University - and thething closest to hydraulics was ‘Water Supply,
Drainage and the Environment’.OF: Were you passionate about
the environment at that time?SC: No, I hate plants. They scare
(14:16):
me. I spent my childhood was my dad's mom. So shewas very old. My parents were in a different city.
So no-one really took me out. We didn'thave many children's books at home.
So I read a lot of Chinese ancient ghost stories,in which all these special flowers became ghosts.
OF (14:39):
In ghost stories, the flowers were ghosts? SC
Everyone who is listening would know that, if they're Chinese?
SC (14:46):
Yeah. OF
And I don't understand why people always think that plants are something romantic and
beautiful. For me, they’re really scary and sick.OF: OK. So ever since you've read these ghost
books, you've been scared of plants?SC: Yeah.
OF (15:05):
What about your house now? SC
to throw them out, or I ask my 阿姨 [Āyí] to do it.OF: OK, I'm gonna have to test this now,
and see if there are otherpeople who are scared of plants.
Otherwise, have you ever met anyone else?SC: Not really.
(15:25):
So you don't like plants, and then you went into environmental engineering.
SC (15:30):
That’s a disaster. OF
Yeah. OF
end up in Germany? That was part of your story.SC: Because 同济 [Tóngjì] was founded by Germans
in 1907. So it's kind of a tradition. And UniStuttgart is the best in hydraulic engineering,
and also very famous in environmentalengineering. And we got invitations to send
(15:54):
students there. That's how I want to Germany.OF: Well, thank you. Let's fast forward back
then. So you had moved from Beijing,and you're going back to Shanghai.
Yes. OF
Yes. I worked for a private equity firm. But there was so much
(16:14):
money floating everywhere. So all the biginvestors - all these big financial groups - they
wanted to buy licences, they didn't want to investin heavy industry. During my time in Beijing,
it was basically ‘real estate, real estate, realestate’. But after maybe 2012, people started to
(16:39):
use all different kinds of financial tools. Sosome people can do huge business. And for the
middle/lower classes, it became more difficult.OF: Yes, that makes sense. And is it also a
function of… everything was already built, andthere were fewer projects in terms of just the
(17:01):
simple ‘real estate, real estate real estate’?SC: No, the thing is, like, for example,
you can never have enoughinfrastructure. But for infrastructure,
you don't earn money from it. So peoplemade up stories to sell residences. It's
not balanced. So it relies very much on leverage.The most support you get is from the bank.
(17:29):
So if politics change, if macropolicies change, that means a huge risk.
And you cannot diversify your risk.OF: Right. Which just makes the
whole environment much more complicated.SC: Yeah, you really need long-lasting government
support, and very stable policy. Which meansthat private investors would hesitate to invest.
OF (17:56):
I'm looking at the time, let me finish by asking you then,
what projects are you working on today?SC: Basically, my company, we build certain
projects, and one of them includes an exhibitionhall. And it's a technology one, but I tried to
make it very ‘arty’ and ‘storytelling’. Yeah, I’mputting together different technology projects,
(18:21):
and making them into a cluster of stories.OF: So this is almost going back to your
first dream of being an architect,you can now really work in that area.
SC (18:31):
I hired some good architects to work as interior designers,
because they have a better understanding ofstructure and space. And architects have more
training in engineering and technology. Sothey can understand why I want to combine all
these different technologies together. Yeah.OF: And when will this project be online?
(18:54):
Difficult. Yeah. We… OF
a very difficult time, as you say. Like, there's
no knowing what will happen in the future.SC: Yeah. But for example… I cannot get into
much detail, but we are also influencedby the Chinese/American relationship.
(19:14):
So there's a payment problem. And also,it's a government-sponsored project.
So there will definitely be a lot more proceduresto through, some I know, some I don't yet.
OF (19:29):
Yes. SC
Well, good luck. We will definitely keep in touch. I want to see this project being built
in the future.SC: Yeah.
Thank you, Salome. We will move on to Part 2. SC
[Part 2]OF:
Let's go, very quickly. Are you ready?SC: Yeah.
We have a short amount of time, so we'll race through this. Question 1,
what is your favourite China-related fact?SC: 江南 [Jiāngnán], which we use to refer
(19:53):
to the 长江 [‘Yangtze’] Delta region.You go somewhere warmer and green,
it arouses this nostalgic feeling. Yeah.OF: So 江南 [Jiāngnán], what is that area?
SC (20:06):
Shanghai and maybe part of 浙江 [Zhèjiāng] Province and the
south part of 江苏 [Jiāngsū] Province. Yeah.OF: They are culturally, they're historically,
connected, aren’t they.SC: Yeah.
OF (20:14):
Because we don't use really ‘江南 [Jiāngnán]’ very often, do we? Or do you hear that a lot?
SC (20:18):
When we talk, when you speak, you don't use it that much. But when you write,
it's still very poetic. People use ita lot, a lot. Since I was one year old,
and not in the city centre but in thissmall town which was owned by my family,
you have these old relationships between people,and all these rivers around. It's peaceful. Yeah.
OF (20:41):
Right, next question. Do you have a favourite word or phrase in
Chinese? That you like to teach people, maybe?SC: Yeah, 设身处地 [shèshēn chǔ dì], which means ‘put
yourself in someone else's shoes’.OF: Right.
SC (20:53):
It's very easy to be judgmental. I'm very judgmental. But you have to put yourself in other
people's situation and try to understand.This makes you have a much wider world.
It’s my moral standard. Yeah.OF: Yeah. Question 3. What is
(21:13):
your favourite destination within China?SC: I will say the Silk Road. Yeah. I was
born in 玉门 [Yùmén]…OF: Which is where?
It's close to 敦煌 [Dūnhuáng]. OF
Very west. And not only because I was born there, I went there when I was 40 exactly,
for my birthday. And also my dad was 80, it wasmore like a birthday gift for my dad. Beautiful,
(21:41):
yeah. And also, there are so many differentcultures there, there’s cultural communication.
I love history, and that's beautiful.OF: Right. Because that whole area is
squeezed in between 新疆 [Xīnjiāng] and then Tibet,
and then Mongolia.SC: Yeah.
OF (21:54):
You’ve got everything there, haven’t you. SC
you can see the landscape change, the culturechange, the language change; and even people,
they look different. If you go deep intohistory, the world becomes much much bigger.
Yes. SC
Wonderful. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?
SC (22:15):
My parents. For me, people are always the most important thing. And of course,
then I wouldn't miss those populists.OF: Oh what do you mean? Oh, populists.
Yeah, you know what I mean. OF
right? If we were in the UK, I would saythe same thing about people there, right?
Yeah. OF
(22:35):
still surprises you about life in China?SC: No, not really. Become my grandma
always taught me to keep calm and not besurprised. And I’ve got used to that attitude.
If there is anything new or very differenthappening, I will just try to analyse why. Yeah.
OF (22:53):
Yeah, that's definitely the scientific side of you. What is your favourite place
to go out, to eat or drink or just hang out?SC: Maybe the riverside, the west bank. Because,
I told you, I had this colourful expensive lifeback in Beijing. A lot of parties, drinks. And I’m
(23:16):
kinda tired of that. So I miss my childhood,this peace and the connection with local people.
So I chose to live not too far from the river, andin the morning sometimes I go jogging along it.
You see all these big ships, slowly moving there.And that's the industrial part of Shanghai,
(23:40):
and it's something more stable.OF: Right. It’s much more real, right?
SC (23:45):
Yeah. OF
or worst purchase you've recently made?SC: I'm not really a shopper. I hate
going shopping with girlfriends, that drives mecrazy. So normally, I make a list. I know what
I want, I go to the shop, I pick up things, andI go. The last thing I really liked was my ring.
OF (24:07):
Oh, nice. I can see it. SC
I told my husband “If you buy me a Tiffanyor whatever, I will not marry you”.
I was not nice to him. Every gift he bought me, Iwas like “Oh, this is expensive”. You know, “It’s
not worth that much”. I'm very into art, I lovemuseums, my preference is a very practical thing,
(24:33):
or something really designed, meaningful. So Itold my husband, I have a friend called Paloma
in Beijing. She had her own store and does thedesign. And the nice thing is she even built a
factory in Ethiopia to help local people who weredumped by their husbands who got diamonds and left
(24:58):
their families. I was so touched by this story,and her design is brilliant. So I told my husband
“Either I get a ring from her, or I don't want aring”. I don't mind if I'm married without a ring,
I’m Chinese. So we went to Paloma, and Itold her to the style that maybe I wanted, so
(25:19):
she designed it for me.OF: And that's the ring.
SC (25:21):
Yeah, that's the ring. OF
I'm OK, right. OF
If you put romantic meaning onto these small details, you don't really get anything big.
OF (25:34):
Right, right. SC
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? OK, send it to me now.
SC (25:40):
Ah. OF
I like the one with sunglasses. Because I enjoy mocking people slightly.
OF (25:50):
Oh. SC
So this is you saying “Cool”. But really, you're saying “Hmm”.
SC (25:56):
Huhuhuh. OF
next question, what is your favourite KTV song?SC: Sorry, I don't sing songs. I'm a terrible
singer. For me, it was like, I didn't know I was aterrible singer. You know, when you’re a kid, you
don't know. You just try to sing songs. And I wasa good student. So when we had this music exam,
(26:20):
I did the paperwork very well. Full score, always.And my teacher told me "You don't need to sing,
you passed the exam”. And really, she just letme pass the exam. 60 exactly. Not even 61. How
bad does that mean? My dad was a good singer, butmy mom was terrible. So I think maybe I followed
(26:42):
my mom. Yeah. If you ask me to sing… I don't know.OF: This is why this is still a good question,
because I got a good storyfrom that. And you can't be
good at everything. Do you accept that now?SC: I always accepted that. Just my parents
wanted me to be good at everything. I'm not.OF: Very good. And finally, what other
(27:04):
China-related media sources do you rely on?SC: I have a lot of people who work in the
media field on my Moments. Especially because Ilived in Beijing, so I know a lot of people there
who get to know certain things. And you know, inBeijing you have the rumours, different kind of
rumours all around. So I get trained (27:24):
you hear something, you analyse it with your experience,
you do some research by yourself. Yeah,I try not to read so much Chinese media.
OF (27:37):
Yeah. Thank you so much Salome, what a fascinating conversation. I don't know how to
actually classify it. We went into so manydifferent details. The last thing I will
do is to ask you, out of everyone you know inChina, who do you recommend that I interview in
the next season of Mosaic of China?SC: Sam. He's like a trip advisor.
(28:00):
He does all this planning for travellerswho want to get a deeper understanding of
a place. Sam is someone who really lovesculture and loves people, so he tries to
explore things with his beautifuleyes. He has beautiful blue eyes,
that's how I got to know him. Really.OF: Wonderful. Well I look forward to meeting Sam.
(28:24):
And thank you so much, Salome.SC: Yeah. Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So I have one major correction to make,
and it was to a comment I made right off the bat.No, TUMI is not a German brand. I don't know where
I got that from, it was actually founded by anAmerican who had been in the Peace Corps in Peru,
(28:45):
and is named after a Peruvian ceremonial knife. Soactually in researching that mistake I discovered
a link to the Peruvian healer Katherine Wongfrom Episode 04 of the season, and also to
last week's episode with DJ BO, who was also inthe Peace Corps, not in Peru but in Mongolia.
As for other connections, Salome's commentson the China real estate market were also
(29:09):
reflected in the episode with Wendy Saunders,the architect from Episode 12 from this series;
her favourite hangout by the 黄埔 [Huángpù] riverin Shanghai was the same as that of Michelle Qu,
the improvisational comedianfrom a few weeks ago, Episode 20;
and Salome's favourite WeChat stickerwas actually not a sticker at all,
but one of the WeChat emojis, just likewith the brand namer Vladimir Djurovic
(29:33):
from Season 02 Episode 13, or the fitnesscommunity leader Vy Vu from Season 01 Episode 08.
As always, you can find images from today'sepisode on the Mosaic of China website,
or on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. Apart fromher object - the TUMI credit card holder - there
are also photos of where Salome was born, in herhometown of 玉门 [Yùmén] in 甘肃 [Gānsù] province;
(29:59):
some of her parents and theother relatives she mentioned;
her wedding ring; and plenty more besides. Andif you're at the website you'll also be able
to see how to subscribe to the PREMIUMversion of the show, which includes an
average of 10-15 minutes per episode. Here aresome clips from today's full-length version.
[Clip 1]SC: So I asked my husband
(30:19):
“Where’s 枝江 [Zhījiāng]?” He was like “Oh, that'sthe airport of 宜昌 [Yíchāng].” I was like “What?”
[Clip 2]SC: So you have to really read the news,
and then really know what you’re reading.[Clip 3]
SC (30:29):
I was like “Bull****, I’ll give you a difficult one”. That's how ‘Salome’ came
to my mind.[Clip 4]
For me, they’re totally not pretentious. When they are nice to you,
you know that's something you can trust.[Clip 5]
Beijing really shocked me. I went there, and it was totally not what I had imagined.
[Clip 6]OF: So you thought
you were being polite, butactually you were insulting her.
(30:50):
Yeah. [Clip 7] SC
of the guys who proposed to me.OF: You're kidding.
No. [End of Audio Clips]
And that's all for this week. Mosaic of China isme, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell.
I'm taking a planned summer vacation next week,so we'll be back for Episode 25 of the Season
on August 3rd. But before then, coming rightup is a catch-up with the luxury club GM
(31:14):
Lori Li from Episode 10 of last season. So staytuned for that, and I'll see you next time.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello, Lori.
LL (31:33):
Hello. OF
Me too. OF
you were telling me about how you managed theprivate member's club during the economic crisis.
Yeah. OF
crisis. So I really wanted to ask you, how did youcope with Yongfoo Elite during the Coronavirus?
(31:57):
Oh, actually we decided to open a new lab. We invited Chinese chefs who were working
in Michelin 2-Star or 3-Star restaurants abroad.We invited them to come back to China, to our lab,
and to do Chinese food research. And then some ofthem got stuck in China because of the virus. So
(32:22):
they can't go to Japan, they can’t go toFrance, to their previous restaurants. So
they stayed in our lab for this whole year.OF: Oh, gosh. So their plan was a few weeks,
and they ended up being here the whole year.LL: Yeah.
OF (32:34):
Well, that's kind of good news for you, right? LL
additional bonus for us. But we really appreciateall the new blood. They’re doing very well,
making a modern twist of traditional Chinese food.And actually, I think it's also a good time for
(32:59):
all F&B companies to make internal adjustmentsand internal training initiatives. Because you
can't do outside marketing, but you have likea time window to do some adjustments. Like us,
we did the whole food research, it was like threemonths that we didn’t open up the restaurant,
(33:21):
we only did the food research.OF: Right. And did you see - emerging
from Coronavirus in China - did you see a newversion, a new definition of luxury? Or did we
snap back to what you were talkingabout before, where luxury was about
spending time in nature, spendingtime with family? Was that something
(33:41):
which you saw continue after Coronavirus?LL: Yeah, after this crisis, I think most people
think more about life itself. Howto be happier. Everybody actually
changed their values a little bit. Yeah.OF: Right. I've heard that, that people are
now a little bit more health conscious, even now.LL: Yeah, yeah. People became more and more
(34:06):
conscious about their body, consciousabout their mind. And I heard that
everybody is going to the hospital to doa little bit of face adjustment. The other
reason is that everyone is wearing masks,so they have a good chance to recover,
and people will not recognise anything different.OF: That’s so funny. So just like how you went
(34:29):
into your lab and did R&D during Coronavirus,people are going to the cosmetic surgery lab,
and are changing their faces.LL: Yeah, yeah.
Is that really true? LL
he's in this industry, he told us.OF: Wow. Well maybe you did that. Lori,
because you're looking wonderful.LL: I said it’s like, everybody
(34:52):
wants to do everything now. Yeah. Theydon't want to wait for anything, they
realise that time is really limited.OF: Yes. And that's something which
we've experienced in China, which I hope therest of the world will also get to. Where you
do see some return to normal, and you really dounderstand the value of the things that maybe
(35:12):
you took for granted before. And then what aboutyou personally? We've talked about your business,
how about you, did you have a toughyear? Was it, for you, a year where
you learnt something new about yourself?LL: Oh, because I had plenty of time during the
virus period, I started writing again.OF: Nice.
LL (35:32):
Yeah. I used to be a writer, and in 15 years I haven't really created anything like a novel. And
now this year, every day I have had 3-5 hours tobe totally by myself. So I started writing again.
Now I’ve almost finished a middle-sized novel.OF: Amazing.
(35:54):
Yeah. OF
with publishers, or are you still in early stages?LL: I already showed a part of it to some
publishers, but I'm not in any urgency to publish.OF: Yeah, I guess it's more for yourself, right?
Yeah. But it's a good start. It stimulates me to write more and more. Now I'm already planning
(36:20):
the second novel.OF: OK.
Yeah. OF
It's making me think that I have not used myCoronavirus time as well as you. Thank you, Lori.
And we are going to be releasing this episodealongside one of the new episodes in Season
02. Unfortunately the person who you recommended,Wang Fang, she couldn't make it into this season.
(36:44):
OK. OF
to find a very good replacement. So I look forwardto you listening to the replacement. And it's just
been a pleasure to get back in touch with you andto see your face. We have met actually a few times
since your recording. I want to say thankyou again for being part of this project.
And I hope that we continue to stay in touch.LL: Thank you. It is my great honour.
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