April 10, 2023 • 33 mins
Things are finally looking up for international sportswear brands in China in 2023. For the previous few years, almost all brands were suffering due to instability of the market during COVID and the rise in popularity of Chinese domestic competitors. With this as the backdrop to our conversation - recording last year - a big thanks goes to today's guest Kim YoungAh for offsetting these heavier topics with a very lighthearted and cheerful conversation about her career in merchandising at Nike, adidas, Fila, Gap and Crocs. The episode also includes a catch-up interview with: Wendy Saunders from Season 02 Episode 12 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-12-wendy-saunders 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:27 - Part 1 20:14 - Part 2 27:12 - Outro 29:07 - Catch-Up Interview Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at: https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-18-kim-youngah Join the community: Instagram https://instagram.com/oscology LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina Facebook https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
[Trailer]KY: “Oh!
Sorry, sorry, sorry!
My apologies!”
Something like that.
OF (00:07):
That’s cute.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Sometimes in this show I like to do a deepdive into a profession that most of us don’t
really know about.
A good example was the last episode with FrankAbel, where we learnt about the life of a
(00:30):
stunt man in China.
But we’ve had lots of episodes like that,from gin distilling to video game designing
to robot making.
Today’s episode is with Kim YoungAh, whoworks in sportswear at adidas.
And all of us know sportswear; all of us knowadidas.
But do we know what it means to work in merchandising?
(00:52):
Personally, I’ve been hearing this wordfor years and whenever it comes up I just
nod knowingly, because yeah I understand thisword, it means ‘selling’.
Merchandisers work in selling, right?
Well, it turns out that there’s a lot tolearn from this complex world - a world of
wholesalers and franchisers, and multi-brandstores, and fashion malls, and segmentation,
(01:17):
distribution, inventory, and so on and soon.
So, here’s the episode on merchandising!
[Part 1]OK: Thank you very much for coming, YoungAh.
KY (01:29):
Oh, thank you for inviting me.
OF (01:31):
It's great to see you.
KY (01:32):
Me too.
OF (01:33):
We actually have a third guest in the room today.
Can you introduce who else is in the roomwith us?
KY (01:39):
Pippi.
P-I-P-P-I.
OF (01:42):
P-I-P-P-I.
KY (01:43):
Yeah.
Pippi has now been with me for three years.
She's a rescue dog.
I think she's almost nine years old, we don'tknow actually.
I took the name from Pippi Longstocking...
OF (01:55):
Ah, OK.
KY (01:56):
… Who was kind of a hero to me when I was young.
OF (01:59):
Nice.
KY (02:00):
Very brave, determined, and always very positive.
So I thought she has a life like Pippi Longstocking: “Pippi”. (02:03):
undefined
OF (02:07):
And she's nice and calm.
It reminds me, there was one other episodeI recorded where we had a dog in the studio.
KY (02:13):
Yeah.
OF (02:14):
That was with Lexie Comstock.
Just having Pippi here, it's a nice connectionback to Season 01.
But yeah, she's beautiful.
KY (02:21):
Yeah.
OF (02:22):
Let’s hope that we won't hear her, she is certainly quiet now.
But if we do hear a little pitter-patter onthe wooden floors, that Pippi that's not YoungAh.
KY (02:30):
Yeah.
OF (02:31):
We’re doing this in my home.
We might hear some outside noises.
So let's get started.
How would you, in one sentence, describe whatyou do here in China?
KY (02:41):
I’m a merchandiser.
For stores, for branding campaigns, for e-commercechannels and then own retail channels.
I’ve always been working in multinationalsports and fashion brands, like Nike and adidas,
and also Fila and Gap.
OF (02:58):
Nike, adidas, Fila and Gap.
KY (03:01):
And Crocs.
OF (03:02):
And Crocs!
KY (03:03):
Five big companies, yeah.
OF (03:05):
Great.
Well, you are right now at adidas, but you'renot here talking in an official capacity for
adidas, right?
KY (03:11):
Yes, yes.
OF (03:12):
Good.
So before we get into that, what object didyou bring that in some way describes your
life in China?
KY (03:19):
So this is my phone carrier.
It’s so dirty.
Because I carry it every day.
It’s something that’s like part of mybody.
OF (03:27):
Oh.
KY (03:28):
Because I'm a mom of two girls.
And then I’m also working very hard in abig company.
That's why I really always try to think aboutefficiency in life, and mobility.
Go everywhere; and then pay for everything;at the same time having conference calls through
the phone, living in a virtual life, especiallyfor multinational companies.
OF (03:47):
Yeah.
Of course, everyone around the world can relateto what you're talking about.
But in China especially, we are so dependenton our phones.
So let's go straight into your life at adidasand your previous 4-5 brands.
Tell me about what would be the main thingthat you do?
KY (04:03):
Yeah, the main thing is merchandising.
Merchandising is how to plan the product launch;creating the product collection; planning
the holistic assortment for the season launch,to cover the entire marketplace.
I need to think about what is the businessgoal: achieving revenue.
Then I need to translate this into (04:22):
What is the optimised size of the product range?
At the same time (04:26):
How much do we need to sell?
Also, we need to maintain the right size ofthe inventory at the same time.
So, a lot of complexity.
But I've been doing this for more than 20years, so it’s quite natural for me.
OF (04:39):
You have to deal with the supply chain; you have to deal with finance; you have to
deal with…
KY (04:46):
Marketing.
OF (04:47):
… Everything.
KY (04:48):
Every part.
Every part, yeah.
OF (04:50):
Yes.
And is that the same role in every company?
KY (04:52):
Yes.
Product is the thing, right?
Product represents the brand; product representsconsumer needs; and product represents the
manifesto for the brand, what they want todrive.
OF (05:04):
Let's take it from the beginning then.
Let's say it’s adidas, but it could be anycompany, right?
Adidas has these new products that they aretrying to push across the world this season.
KY (05:14):
Yeah.
OF (05:15):
So you see the global products, and then you decide which of them will come to the
China market?
Is that a simple way of putting it?
KY (05:23):
Yeah.
I think that’s 60 or 70% of our range.
At the same time I also work together withthe creation team in Shanghai as well.
OF (05:31):
That’s what I was gonna say, yeah.
KY (05:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So there’s a combination.
This kind of multinational company alwaysallows room to drive the brand, and at the
same time drive the local needs.
OF (05:42):
So when you are deciding the range, you are also deciding the quantities of the range
as well.
KY (05:48):
The forecast always comes in first.
And then we get feedback from our customers- which are the wholesalers - asking them
how much they are actually interested.
Then we need to talk with the supply chainteam, then the supply chain team will talk
to the factories, and forecast the productioncapability: “This is amount of material
(06:09):
you need to pre-book”, something like that.
OF (06:10):
Right.
KY (06:11):
So there are a lot of rounds we go through.
Yeah.
OF (06:13):
So one little tweak in one part will then have a knock-on effect with the manufacturing,
with the supply chain, everything else.
And I can see why it's quite useful that youcan use your wholesalers as a bit of market
research before you really launch to the public.
Like, how much of your product is sold throughthe wholesalers, and how much is sold directly?
KY (06:32):
I think that's a bit tricky to share.
OF (06:34):
Yeah.
KY (06:35):
It's about the company's portfolio.
OF (06:37):
Yeah right.
KY (06:38):
So some companies…
I wouldn't say specific brands, but some companiesreally want to start from scratch, and then
drive the business.
But the big scale of Nike and adidas makesthis impossible.
OF (06:51):
Right.
KY (06:52):
But still we need to have flagship stores.
OF (06:55):
Right.
And those are the ones where you have controlover the entire story.
KY (06:59):
Yes.
But from the consumers eyes - especially inChina - they don't really see who owns what.
OF (07:06):
No.
KY (07:07):
Because franchise stores have mono-brand signboards.
OF (07:10):
Me as a customer, I don't know if I'm walking in a franchise store or a flagship
store.
KY (07:16):
Yeah.
And then we give them support.
Franchise stores will manage the same levelof the experience and also the execution as
our own stores.
OF (07:21):
But then when you think about the franchisees, you're also including the franchisees who
stock not just one brand, right?
They could stock adidas, they could stockNike, they can stock all the other sports
brands in one store, right?
KY (07:33):
Those are the multi-brand stores, yeah.
OF (07:35):
Right.
KY (07:36):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (07:37):
Presumably, that is where you have the least control over the story, right?
KY (07:41):
Might be.
But some of the multi-brand companies havea business strategy to grow together with
these key partners, which are the brands.
Building some kind of long term plan together…
OF (07:52):
Well, because they have as much scale as you do, these big multi-brand shops.
KY (07:57):
Yes, yes.
Their voice is quite strong.
OF (07:59):
So in those cases then, how much interface do you have with the multi-brands?
KY (08:04):
In Korea, I had a lot of opportunity to have conversations with these multi-brand
owners, and then also their teams.
Because in Korea the multi-brand businesswas really booming.
But in China, the multi-brand segment is quitesmall.
OF (08:18):
Ah.
KY (08:19):
So that's why I don't have much chance to connect with them.
So that's one of the big differences.
Outside of China, most mature markets havea really big portion of this multi-brand business.
OF (08:32):
Me - as someone who is not very fashion-focused, I don't really have much loyalty either, I'm
a terrible consumer - that’s the kind ofplace that I would definitely go to.
KY (08:41):
Yeah.
OF (08:42):
But you're saying that in the context of China not being a mature market?
Is that the difference?
KY (08:47):
No, I wouldn't say that it's not being a mature market.
I don't know, there isn’t any clear answer.
The consumer, whether they want to see everybrand's full range in each brand’s stores…
I don't think so.
It's more about the landlord.
These giant landlords, in order to make theirfashion mall to be more inspiring, they need
(09:08):
the one-store consumer journey.
OF (09:11):
Because what you're saying is, if you have a multi-brand store in one of these big
fashion malls, it doesn't feel special enough,right?
KY (09:18):
Yeah.
Maybe also China is like a giant opportunityin terms of the territory perspective.
Each brand doesn't need to be really squeezedinto a multi-brand store.
That's what I think.
OF (09:29):
Yeah.
KY (09:30):
Yeah.
OF (09:31):
In your current role, you’re looking after just one line of clothing, right?
KY (09:35):
I'm doing a category merchandising role, which is actually women's sports performance
apparel in adidas, and the adidas by StellaMcCartney line, yeah.
OF (09:46):
Right.
KY (09:47):
The current role is really front end, I plan the segmentation distribution in advance.
For example, I have 100 different products.
Out of 100 products, 20 products must go to‘hype drop’.
OF (10:01):
‘Hype drop’?
KY (10:02):
‘Hype drop’.
Like, you know, this is really really…
OF (10:05):
Special.
KY (10:06):
Special.
We want to control supply so that we maintaina high level of desire.
And I want to drive the desire.
So I make a decision, and then control whichstores can sell this one, which stores drive
this one.
When we put everything together, we ensurethat we don't have any kind of missing opportunity.
OF (10:23):
Right.
KY (10:24):
Where is the right place to launch at the right time?
OF (10:27):
Right.
KY (10:28):
Because not every place is the right place, not every time is the right time.
OF (10:39):
The franchisees have an understanding about what they think will sell in their store.
So they can sometimes push back on you.
KY (10:51):
Sometimes they just want it.
OF (10:52):
Oh they just want it, right.
KY (10:54):
Yeah, either way.
OF (10:55):
That’s a tricky relationship to actually manage then.
Because you have to withhold from certainpeople, and give to maybe they're competing
franchisees?
KY (11:04):
Yeah, endless negotiation.
Endless negotiation.
If the category is going well, then it’sa positive negotiation.
You know, everybody wants it.
But…
OF (11:13):
Oh but if it’s not going well, oh gosh…
KY (11:14):
Yeah.
Then everybody is pushing back.
OF (11:16):
They don't want it in their store.
KY (11:18):
Of course, yeah.
OF (11:19):
Wow.
KY (11:20):
We need to respect that they also run the business, and need to make profit.
OF (11:23):
Because each franchisee is its own business.
KY (11:26):
Yes.
OF (11:27):
They have their own profit and loss.
KY (11:28):
Yeah.
OF (11:29):
When has something really gone wrong?
Like, when could you not negotiate your wayout of something?
And of course, don't tell me which brand thiswas, this could be any of the brands you've
worked in.
KY (11:38):
We have some products, where we believe that in the long term, this is gonna be our
strategic focus.
Because we believe that if we put in the effortand investment, we can create the future.
OF (11:51):
Yes.
KY (11:52):
But in the meantime the customer only sees the short-term profit, because they have
the everyday P&L responsibility.
So that somehow they think…
OF (12:02):
They haven't got the luxury to think long-term, right?
KY (12:04):
Exactly.
OF (12:05):
Yes.
KY (12:06):
It’s a common thing.
We think there’s going to be demand creationin five years, three years, but it doesn't
show up now.
OF (12:14):
Yeah.
KY (12:15):
It is a big part of our negotiation.
If it wasn’t really really important forthe future, of course the brand will not push,
so there’s no need to negotiate.
But if we feel that this is for the longevityof our brand, then there is a timeframe that
the customer cannot see yet.
But the brand and the company can see thefuture.
OF (12:34):
And when you say customer, you mean the franchisee, right?
In this situation?
KY (12:37):
Yes, yes, yes.
OF (12:38):
This is where I imagine you need to educate the market…
KY (12:41):
At the same time, yeah.
OF (12:42):
… And this is a function of how successful the marketing for that product will be.
KY (12:46):
Totally, yeah.
OF (12:48):
And if the marketing misses, then you won't capture the audience that you expected,
and…
KY (12:51):
It’s really well said, yeah.
OF (12:53):
Right?
And that side is so unpredictable.
KY (12:55):
Yes.
OF (12:56):
Even though you’re marketing experts, I'm sure sometimes you just miss, right?
KY (12:57):
Hm-mm.
OF (12:58):
The guys at global, they have an idea about what they want to push, but I imagine
here in China…
KY (13:03):
China has power.
But Korea is also quite a strategically importantmarket.
That's why I could come to China.
OF (13:10):
Yeah.
KY (13:11):
So regardless of the size, Korea had some kind of support.
OF (13:16):
So when you're trying to find the mix between the products that come from global
and the products that you have innovated herein the market - let's say China - how can
you make it cohesive?
Because the things coming out of China mightactually be very different to what global
is trying to push down, right?
KY (13:32):
I think once you have the three stripes - you know, the adidas branding logo - or
the Nike swoosh, then it would not look verydifferent.
OF (13:40):
Right.
KY (13:41):
So this branding logo is very very important in terms of consistency.
OF (13:44):
Right.
That’s what creates the cohesion, right?
KY (13:46):
Yeah.
And then the creation centre, they alwaysfollow guidelines.
OF (13:49):
Yeah.
KY (13:50):
So that prevents awkward situations.
But at the same time, if you make it too identical,then there is no reason to have a creation
centre in Shanghai.
OF (13:59):
Yeah.
KY (14:00):
That’s why we always think about what the consumer needs are here, that are different
to the international market.
OF (14:06):
Yeah.
This is where I can see another really complicatedconflict that you have to work with, which
is…
You've got this global brand - that’s halfthe reason people walk into your store, they
know your brand - at the same time, the Chineseare becoming more proud of their own very
specific fashion.
So how can you then, as a global brand, competewith these competing Chinese brands?
KY (14:29):
Yeah, that’s a very relevant question.
OF (14:33):
Right.
KY (14:34):
And very sharp.
Yeah I think in the past, Nike and adidas- and all these international brands - actually
had a really great time.
But since COVID, 2020 was very tough and then2021 brought a difficult time for us.
The thing is, it forces international brandsto reconsider “What is the thing we need
(14:58):
to push through, to maintain the positionwe had before.”
This actually gave us a moment of great reflection.
Externally, the Chinese consumer could geta chance to open their eyes, and look around
to see what local brands had, offering goodproduct, and exciting novelty in terms of
(15:19):
concept, in terms of silhouette.
You know, the local brands were ready, andthey snapped the chance, and then have been
driving through until now.
So, we are now looking at how they succeededand have been continuing this competition.
OF (15:33):
Right.
KY (15:34):
And the common thing we found out is that actually, they are really providing a unique
selling point.
OF (15:40):
Which is..?
KY (15:41):
Which is either a little bit more bold design…
OF (15:43):
Ah.
KY (15:44):
Or their own character, like, you know, with 中国李宁 [Zhōngguó Lǐníng].
And then the product price is also very upper-level.
The consumer is reasonable, they are verysmart consumers nowadays, especially the young
generation.
So, you know, there is no reason they hesitatednot to buy, and try on, right?
OF (16:00):
Yeah.
They’re also quite adventurous, right?
They don't mind taking some risks.
They don't mind switching brands, much moreso than people in more mature markets, right?
KY (16:08):
Totally.
Yeah, yeah.
More open to exploring different opportunitiesthat are given to them.
So they are really focused on “What is thebenefit I can enjoy?”
You know?
OF (16:22):
Yes.
KY (16:23):
And then the other one is about how frequently we’re updating novelty.
OF (16:27):
Well, that's the issue, isn't it?
Because it's not just about being creative,it’s about how quickly you have to churn
out new things.
I can walk past the same shop - a Chinesebrand, for example - and they've changed the
window display every month!
KY (16:41):
Every month.
OF (16:42):
I'm like “What the hell?”
KY (16:43):
But we do, we do, we do that every month.
OF (16:44):
You do that too?
KY (16:45):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (16:46):
Ah.
KY (16:47):
But I think maybe with these Chinese brands, the degree of change is much more noticeable.
OF (16:51):
Aha.
KY (16:52):
Maybe, yeah.
But here is the thing, you know.
You need to be yourself.
Why I love adidas - first I ask to myself- is really its long history.
This will not go away.
OF (17:05):
That’s the heritage of the brand, right?
KY (17:07):
Exactly.
OF (17:08):
Yeah.
KY (17:09):
And that's the authenticity.
OF (17:10):
Yeah.
KY (17:11):
And this is the thing I need to focus on, even harder now.
OF (17:14):
Yes, yes.
KY (17:15):
Keep on trying to make this authentic brand still stay young, from a product perspective.
OF (17:21):
Yes.
KY (17:22):
Yeah.
OF (17:23):
And I wonder how many of these very competitive and very unique brands will last as long as
a brand like adidas.
It's very hard to know whether they will startto create this heritage themselves, or if
they will evaporate very quickly.
KY (17:36):
Totally.
Li-Ning is really doing well.
OF (17:38):
Ah Li-Ning, right.
KY (17:40):
Because Li-Ning had a kind of past history as an inspiring brand.
And they use it.
OF (17:46):
Right.
KY (17:47):
And they move the Chinese heart.
I'm also very inspired how they do this.
This is the identity that 中国李宁 [ZhōngguóLǐníng] will push forward over the next
10 years.
OF (17:56):
Mmm.
KY (17:57):
Yeah.
OF (17:58):
Is there a Korean brand that's also like that?
KY (17:59):
There is one brand, which is STYLENANDA.
They started to really set their identitysmartly.
And then they expanded their business portfolioto cosmetics as well.
OF (18:11):
Oh right.
We've talked a little bit about Korea in thischat.
Of course, you're from Korea.
Maybe now we should end this part of the conversationjust by talking about the differences between
your life in Korea versus here.
And how did you end up here in China, whatis that story?
KY (18:25):
Oh, I was working in Nike Korea.
I was in some project helping China.
And then in the middle of the project, suddenlyI got an offer to come.
And then I was little bit like “OK maybeafter one year, I will come back to Korea.”
Which was 10 years ago.
OF (18:46):
Oh wow.
And this is where you met your husband, thisis where you had your children.
KY (18:49):
Exactly.
It’s been a very positive impact in my life.
I wasn't unhappy.
But in the end, I was a bit bored, or therewasn't really a great opportunity for me to
develop my career actively.
But now in China, the company really pushedme.
(19:10):
“You can do it.
We believe that you can do it.
And then fix it.
And then you will create, you will enjoy.”
So the company really encouraged me to explore.
OF (19:20):
Yeah.
KY (19:21):
Also I look similar to a Chinese person.
OF (19:23):
Oh.
KY (19:24):
They speak straight to me in Chinese, without checking or anything.
I don't want to really make them embarrassed,so I just pretend that I understand.
OF (19:34):
Oh no!
KY (19:35):
And then I say “Sorry, this part I really cannot understand.
Can you explain it in English?”
And they’re “Oh!
Sorry, sorry, sorry!
My apologies!”
Something like that.
OF (19:46):
That’s cute.
KY (19:47):
I like it.
OF (19:48):
Yeah.
KY (19:49):
I like it that people think of me as Chinese.
OF (19:50):
Yeah.
KY (19:51):
I really really enjoy it.
Sometimes I ask “Which part of China doyou think I come from?”
OF (19:55):
Ah.
KY (19:56):
And then they say 山东 [Shāndōng].
OF (19:57):
Right, right, right.
KY (19:58):
Yeah.
Which actually makes sense because it's veryclose to Korea.
OF (20:00):
Yeah.
KY (20:01):
So “OK OK, makes sense.”
OF (20:03):
Thank you very much for that.
And thanks for your time today.
We will move on to Part 2.
KY (20:08):
Already?
I didn't feel the time pass.
Thank you, thank you, I really enjoyed it.
[Part 2]OF: So, the 10 questions.
OK.
OF (20:18):
Question 1, which comes from Shanghai Daily
fact?
KY (20:25):
Yeah, I think this is related to my object.
Just the one phone makes me so mobile.
In Korea, I still need to carry some cards…
OF (20:35):
Yes.
That's right.
I'm having a flashback to when I last wasin London.
My family have a house which is, I think,about 20 minutes from the local metro station,
The Underground.
KY (20:47):
Yeah.
OF (20:48):
And I remember walking all the way from the house to the metro station, and then realising
“Oh, I only have my phone.
And I can't pay for the metro.”
KY (20:58):
You totally forget it's not China.
OF (21:00):
Exactly.
And I had to go all the way back.
And it's a bloody steep hill…
KY (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (21:05):
… To get back to this house.
Yeah.
All right next question, which comes fromRosetta Stone: Do you have a favourite word
or phrase in Chinese?
KY (21:13):
小姐 [Xiǎojiě] and 美女 [měinǚ].
OF (21:16):
Right.
KY (21:18):
小姐 [Xiǎojiě] means ‘little big-sister’, and then 美女 [měinǚ] is ‘beautiful
lady’.
So like, if someone doesn’t know my name- especially, you know, downstairs there is
an old lady, always sitting there when wego to the bus station to drop off the kids
- she’s always “美女 [měinǚ], 美女[měinǚ]”.
(21:40):
Like "Good morning.”
It's so nice and kind, I can feel that I havea presence.
OF (21:45):
Yes.
It's a feeling that you belong to the community,right?
KY (21:48):
Exactly, yeah.
Yeah.
OF (21:50):
Next question, which comes from naked Retreats
within China?
KY (21:55):
呼伦贝尔 [Hulunbuir].
OF (21:56):
呼伦贝尔 [Hulunbuir]].
KY (21:57):
Yeah.
The Inner Mongolia prairie.
OF (21:59):
OK.
KY (22:00):
Up north, even higher than 哈尔滨 [Hā’ěrbīn].
So very, very cold.
OF (22:04):
Ah.
KY (22:05):
Really up north, top of the northern part of the China border.
When you step into this prairie, You feellike you’re suddenly turning off the noise.
OF (22:15):
Yeah.
KY (22:16):
And I felt “Oh yeah, this is heaven”.
First time, I didn't go with my husband.
But the second time, my husband was like “Oh,this is even better than you explained.”
OF (22:27):
Yeah.
KY (22:28):
Isn’t it so beautiful.
OF (22:29):
That is great.
KY (22:30):
Yeah, it’s a really amazing place.
OF (22:32):
Thanks so much.
Next, if you left China, what would you missthe most, and what would you miss the least?
KY (22:38):
I will miss constant curiosity.
The local people always ask about “Whereare you from?”, “How much do you make?”,
“How much do you pay for your rental?”
In the beginning, sometimes it was embarrassing,but I have lived long enough not to be embarrassed.
And then I see the true intention, they arejust curious.
(23:00):
And they are just kind.
If I lose Pippi - because she ran off somewhere- then they will look for her together.
You know, always willing to give help.
OD (23:10):
Yeah.
KY (23:11):
And they're always easygoing, warm and nice.
That's why I feel…
OF (23:15):
At home.
KY (23:16):
Yeah.
OF (23:17):
Yeah.
And what would you miss the least?
KY (23:19):
Traffic.
The traffic itself is fine.
But the rules.
OF (23:25):
Ah.
KY (23:26):
You know, the crossroad.
They don't care about the pedestrian greenlight.
This, I will not miss.
OF (23:33):
OK, I have to agree with you here, this is funny.
The thing about turning right here on a redlight is that they don't look.
I know you can turn right, but can you doit slowly, and just keep looking in case there
is a pedestrian, right?
KY (23:47):
Yes.
OF (23:48):
They don't do that.
They just go as fast as though it was a greenlight.
And next question, which comes from SmartShanghai: Where is your favourite place to go out, to (23:52):
undefined
eat or drink or just hang out?
KY (23:59):
Ah, the 福建 [Fújiàn] dumpling soup place in 永康路 [Yǒngkānglù].
OF (24:03):
OK.
KY (24:04):
Epic place.
OF (24:05):
Really?
KY (24:06):
Yeah.
These owners, they know us.
OF (24:08):
Ah.
KY (24:09):
So they are always very kind, and we talked a lot.
They have been there seven years.
OF (24:15):
Oh right.
KY (24:16):
Yeah.
OF (24:17):
In Shanghai terms, that is eternity because nothing lasts long in Shanghai.
KY (24:20):
Exactly.
OF (24:21):
Nice.
KY (24:22):
Yeah.
OF (24:23):
Good, next question, what is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
KY (24:27):
Best purchase is a suit jacket.
Very trendy, made by my friend.
Whatever she makes, it’s a perfect balance.
OF (24:36):
I will ask you for a photo later.
KY (24:38):
Yes, yes.
OF (24:39):
Next question.
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
KY (24:43):
Oh, I always sing ‘Gangnam Style’.
OF (24:46):
Oh god.
Because you can sing everything in Korean,right?
KY (24:51):
Yeah.
So I’m in an outstanding position…
OF (24:55):
Fair enough.
KY (24:56):
… Just because of the language.
OF (24:57):
That’s actually a good choice, yeah.
KY (24:59):
Yeah.
They really enjoy to see me singing and dancing.
OF (25:03):
You do the dances?
KY (25:04):
Of course.
Without the dancing, you’d better not sing‘Gangnam Style’.
OF (25:07):
Absolutely.
No way.
KY (25:09):
Yeah.
And then I sing a Chinese song, which is 新不了情[Xīn Bùliǎo Qíng].
OF (25:14):
OK.
KY (25:15):
It's a very old song from a movie in Hong Kong.
OF (25:19):
Ah.
KY (25:20):
Like, a long time ago.
Somehow I just fell in love with this song.
OF (25:24):
Ah.
KY (25:25):
And then I actually wrote down the song lyrics, and then understood what it means,
and then I practiced by myself.
I really really went to KTV to practice thesong.
OF (25:36):
Yes.
KY (25:37):
And then singing together is just so beautiful.
OF (25:39):
Oh I’m gonna have to check it out.
What's it called again?
KY (25:42):
新不了情 [Xīn Bùliǎo Qíng].
OF (25:43):
And finally, what or who is your biggest source of inspiration in China?
KY (25:49):
Authenticity.
And then honesty.
And then passion really moved me a lot.
The people who have this passion.
For example, they really think about the reason,and then analyse deeply, and then try to share
with me what they believe.
This whole conversation moves me a lot.
(26:10):
There is no real benefit for he or she todo this.
But I can get some very great ideas.
OF (26:16):
That makes sense.
And I can also see how that ties in with yourstory from the beginning.
Because we're talking about the way that youhave worked with brands, you have to innovate,
but you have to always be authentic.
KY (26:27):
Yes.
OF (26:28):
So it’s a good way to end our conversation.
Thank you so much YoungAh.
KY (26:31):
Thank you.
OF (26:33):
Before you leave let me ask you, who do you recommend that I interview in the next
season of Mosaic of China?
KY (26:39):
I would introduce Bas Roeterink.
He's producing a lot of interesting films.
Anyone who has authenticity really inspiresme, and he is one of those people.
And then he really puts his value into theworld.
So I think he might be an interesting guestfor you.
OF (26:57):
Beautiful.
KY (26:58):
Yeah.
OF (26:59):
What question would you ask Bas for the beginning of my interview with him next season?
KY (27:04):
What is the most proud thing he has done in China?
OF (27:08):
Thank you again YoungAh.
KY (27:10):
Thank you.
I really enjoyed it.
[Outro]OF: And that’s all from YoungAh.
It was a relatively short episode this week,so if you’re still in the mood to hear more
about the business of fashion, be sure tolisten back to the episode with Casey Hall
from Season 02 Episode 22, who was a Chinajournalist from the magazine called Business
(27:32):
of Fashion.
And if you’re still a bit confused aboutthe difference between customers and consumers,
then I recommend you listen to the catch-upchat with Jorge Luzio - who works in marketing
at Coca-Cola - which can be found at the endof the interview with Siri Nordhejm from Season
03 Episode 04.
And finally, YoungAh is the first guest onMosaic of China who comes from Korea, but
(27:56):
if you’d like to hear another episode witha Korea connection, check out the show with
the New Zealand diplomat Tom Barker from Season01 Episode 25, who discusses his life in Korea
before coming to China.
The big update from YoungAh since we recordedthis episode is that she has been promoted
to a global VP merchandising role at adidas,so after a decade in China she is now based
(28:21):
in Germany, along with her husband and family.
But as for the other guest - who was silentduring the interview except for the sound
of her claws on the wooden flooring - Pippiis still in Shanghai living with friends of
the family.
So YoungAh expects that she will be comingfor regular visits to meet up with Pippi,
now that travel has become a lot easier.
(28:44):
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell.
After the music, there’s a short catch-upwith the person who referred YoungAh to the
Mosaic, the architect Wendy Saunders fromSeason 02 Episode 12.
And I’ll see you back here next time.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello!
WS (29:08):
Hello!
OF (29:11):
The last time I saw your face was when I bumped into you in Shanghai, as we were
both officially/unofficially allowed out ofour compounds.
WS (29:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
OF (29:23):
And where do I find you today?
WS (29:28):
Yeah, I'm in Antwerp actually.
OF (29:30):
And Antwerp of course, because you were born in Belgium, you are half English, you
worked in Amsterdam before you came to Shanghai…
So Antwerp is what for you?
Is it where your family still lives?
WS (29:42):
No, actually not.
But it's kind of in between where I'm from,and where my partner’s from actually.
I mean, I'm looking forward to going backalso.
But it's also been really very refreshing.
OF (29:54):
Yeah.
Well, for anyone who didn't hear your originalepisode, I should introduce you.
You are a co-founder of the architecture companyAIM Architecture.
WS (30:03):
U-huh.
OF (30:04):
So you've been doing architecture in Shanghai…
Gosh, how many years Is it now?
WS (30:07):
About sixteen now.
OF (30:09):
Sixteen.
And for people who are in Shanghai, one ofthe most noticeable things that you've done
is with your partnership with the HARMAY brand.
I keep seeing more things pop up.
This is an online retail brand, and you weretasked to help design their offline physical
presence.
Tell me, how has your partnership with HARMAYcontinued over the last 18 months?
WS (30:29):
Well, I think we've been lucky with that partnership.
I mean, they're always trying to push theboundary of their presence.
It's also a challenge, because of course,you have to constantly re-invent the envelope,
and kind of push it.
So in that sense you can't really slack off,every time it's different.
You have a different condition, differentquestions.
Some of the stores are really in special situationslike the one on 安福路 [Ānfú Lù], on
(30:53):
the corner.
OF (30:54):
Yes.
And I'm not surprised to see architectureplaying a bigger part in retail, since it
is all about the experience these days, correct?
WS (31:02):
Yeah.
Also, I think for how get the people in, gettingthem to come in the first place.
Because you can buy anything anywhere.
OF (31:09):
Yes.
WS (31:10):
And it should be a place where people can come and hang out, and be part of that
community.
OF (31:16):
What about, then, other projects?
Because I know that you're not just doingwork in retail.
give me a quick update on what you've beenworking on since we last caught up.
WS (31:23):
Well we're doing also a few hotels.
So we also did the Hyatt Unbound in 景德镇[Jǐngdézhèn].
We finished that, that was also a very excitingproject because it has this story about the
exploration of all the different types ofpottery, and we tried to work with that in
the interior.
So yeah, keeping busy for sure.
OF (31:43):
That’s good.
In fact, I haven't been to 景德镇 [Jǐngdézhèn]before, so when I do, I'll definitely check
out that hotel.
WS (31:49):
It's an interesting city to go for a weekend.
And you can very easily get into the countryside.
And this beautiful museum is there also, andthere's a lot of nice interesting architecture
happening at the moment.
OF (32:04):
Oh, there you go.
Well, thank you for your time this morning.
It's good to see you again.
And before I let you go, of course, I willbe including this update at the back of the
episode of the person who you referred forSeason 03, which was our friend Kim YoungAh.
WS (32:16):
Yes.
OF (32:17):
Have you managed to keep in touch with her and her husband?
WS (32:20):
Yes.
And she's moving to Germany.
OF (32:22):
Yes.
Well, she will be one of those people fromthe season with whom I did the interview,
and then since during the interview, she hasleft China.
There are actually quite a few like that,so…
WS (32:31):
Yeah!
So many people.
OF (32:33):
Yeah.
WS (32:34):
It’s kind of sad also.
OF (32:36):
Well, I will still be here when you come back.
WS (32:38):
OK, cool.
OF (32:39):
So I look forward to seeing your smiley face on the street again.
WS (32:42):
OK, let's catch up for a drink then.
OF (32:46):
Good.
In the meantime, thank you again.
WS (32:48):
Thank you.
[Trailer]KY: “Oh!
Sorry, sorry, sorry!
My apologies!”
Something like that.
OF (00:07):
That’s cute.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Sometimes in this show I like to do a deepdive into a profession that most of us don’t
really know about.
A good example was the last episode with FrankAbel, where we learnt about the life of a
(00:30):
stunt man in China.
But we’ve had lots of episodes like that,from gin distilling to video game designing
to robot making.
Today’s episode is with Kim YoungAh, whoworks in sportswear at adidas.
And all of us know sportswear; all of us knowadidas.
But do we know what it means to work in merchandising?
(00:52):
Personally, I’ve been hearing this wordfor years and whenever it comes up I just
nod knowingly, because yeah I understand thisword, it means ‘selling’.
Merchandisers work in selling, right?
Well, it turns out that there’s a lot tolearn from this complex world - a world of
wholesalers and franchisers, and multi-brandstores, and fashion malls, and segmentation,
(01:17):
distribution, inventory, and so on and soon.
So, here’s the episode on merchandising!
[Part 1]OK: Thank you very much for coming, YoungAh.
KY (01:29):
Oh, thank you for inviting me.
OF (01:31):
It's great to see you.
KY (01:32):
Me too.
OF (01:33):
We actually have a third guest in the room today.
Can you introduce who else is in the roomwith us?
KY (01:39):
Pippi.
P-I-P-P-I.
OF (01:42):
P-I-P-P-I.
KY (01:43):
Yeah.
Pippi has now been with me for three years.
She's a rescue dog.
I think she's almost nine years old, we don'tknow actually.
I took the name from Pippi Longstocking...
OF (01:55):
Ah, OK.
KY (01:56):
… Who was kind of a hero to me when I was young.
OF (01:59):
Nice.
KY (02:00):
Very brave, determined, and always very positive.
So I thought she has a life like Pippi Longstocking: “Pippi”. (02:03):
undefined
OF (02:07):
And she's nice and calm.
It reminds me, there was one other episodeI recorded where we had a dog in the studio.
KY (02:13):
Yeah.
OF (02:14):
That was with Lexie Comstock.
Just having Pippi here, it's a nice connectionback to Season 01.
But yeah, she's beautiful.
KY (02:21):
Yeah.
OF (02:22):
Let’s hope that we won't hear her, she is certainly quiet now.
But if we do hear a little pitter-patter onthe wooden floors, that Pippi that's not YoungAh.
KY (02:30):
Yeah.
OF (02:31):
We’re doing this in my home.
We might hear some outside noises.
So let's get started.
How would you, in one sentence, describe whatyou do here in China?
KY (02:41):
I’m a merchandiser.
For stores, for branding campaigns, for e-commercechannels and then own retail channels.
I’ve always been working in multinationalsports and fashion brands, like Nike and adidas,
and also Fila and Gap.
OF (02:58):
Nike, adidas, Fila and Gap.
KY (03:01):
And Crocs.
OF (03:02):
And Crocs!
KY (03:03):
Five big companies, yeah.
OF (03:05):
Great.
Well, you are right now at adidas, but you'renot here talking in an official capacity for
adidas, right?
KY (03:11):
Yes, yes.
OF (03:12):
Good.
So before we get into that, what object didyou bring that in some way describes your
life in China?
KY (03:19):
So this is my phone carrier.
It’s so dirty.
Because I carry it every day.
It’s something that’s like part of mybody.
OF (03:27):
Oh.
KY (03:28):
Because I'm a mom of two girls.
And then I’m also working very hard in abig company.
That's why I really always try to think aboutefficiency in life, and mobility.
Go everywhere; and then pay for everything;at the same time having conference calls through
the phone, living in a virtual life, especiallyfor multinational companies.
OF (03:47):
Yeah.
Of course, everyone around the world can relateto what you're talking about.
But in China especially, we are so dependenton our phones.
So let's go straight into your life at adidasand your previous 4-5 brands.
Tell me about what would be the main thingthat you do?
KY (04:03):
Yeah, the main thing is merchandising.
Merchandising is how to plan the product launch;creating the product collection; planning
the holistic assortment for the season launch,to cover the entire marketplace.
I need to think about what is the businessgoal: achieving revenue.
Then I need to translate this into (04:22):
What is the optimised size of the product range?
At the same time (04:26):
How much do we need to sell?
Also, we need to maintain the right size ofthe inventory at the same time.
So, a lot of complexity.
But I've been doing this for more than 20years, so it’s quite natural for me.
OF (04:39):
You have to deal with the supply chain; you have to deal with finance; you have to
deal with…
KY (04:46):
Marketing.
OF (04:47):
… Everything.
KY (04:48):
Every part.
Every part, yeah.
OF (04:50):
Yes.
And is that the same role in every company?
KY (04:52):
Yes.
Product is the thing, right?
Product represents the brand; product representsconsumer needs; and product represents the
manifesto for the brand, what they want todrive.
OF (05:04):
Let's take it from the beginning then.
Let's say it’s adidas, but it could be anycompany, right?
Adidas has these new products that they aretrying to push across the world this season.
KY (05:14):
Yeah.
OF (05:15):
So you see the global products, and then you decide which of them will come to the
China market?
Is that a simple way of putting it?
KY (05:23):
Yeah.
I think that’s 60 or 70% of our range.
At the same time I also work together withthe creation team in Shanghai as well.
OF (05:31):
That’s what I was gonna say, yeah.
KY (05:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So there’s a combination.
This kind of multinational company alwaysallows room to drive the brand, and at the
same time drive the local needs.
OF (05:42):
So when you are deciding the range, you are also deciding the quantities of the range
as well.
KY (05:48):
The forecast always comes in first.
And then we get feedback from our customers- which are the wholesalers - asking them
how much they are actually interested.
Then we need to talk with the supply chainteam, then the supply chain team will talk
to the factories, and forecast the productioncapability: “This is amount of material
(06:09):
you need to pre-book”, something like that.
OF (06:10):
Right.
KY (06:11):
So there are a lot of rounds we go through.
Yeah.
OF (06:13):
So one little tweak in one part will then have a knock-on effect with the manufacturing,
with the supply chain, everything else.
And I can see why it's quite useful that youcan use your wholesalers as a bit of market
research before you really launch to the public.
Like, how much of your product is sold throughthe wholesalers, and how much is sold directly?
KY (06:32):
I think that's a bit tricky to share.
OF (06:34):
Yeah.
KY (06:35):
It's about the company's portfolio.
OF (06:37):
Yeah right.
KY (06:38):
So some companies…
I wouldn't say specific brands, but some companiesreally want to start from scratch, and then
drive the business.
But the big scale of Nike and adidas makesthis impossible.
OF (06:51):
Right.
KY (06:52):
But still we need to have flagship stores.
OF (06:55):
Right.
And those are the ones where you have controlover the entire story.
KY (06:59):
Yes.
But from the consumers eyes - especially inChina - they don't really see who owns what.
OF (07:06):
No.
KY (07:07):
Because franchise stores have mono-brand signboards.
OF (07:10):
Me as a customer, I don't know if I'm walking in a franchise store or a flagship
store.
KY (07:16):
Yeah.
And then we give them support.
Franchise stores will manage the same levelof the experience and also the execution as
our own stores.
OF (07:21):
But then when you think about the franchisees, you're also including the franchisees who
stock not just one brand, right?
They could stock adidas, they could stockNike, they can stock all the other sports
brands in one store, right?
KY (07:33):
Those are the multi-brand stores, yeah.
OF (07:35):
Right.
KY (07:36):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (07:37):
Presumably, that is where you have the least control over the story, right?
KY (07:41):
Might be.
But some of the multi-brand companies havea business strategy to grow together with
these key partners, which are the brands.
Building some kind of long term plan together…
OF (07:52):
Well, because they have as much scale as you do, these big multi-brand shops.
KY (07:57):
Yes, yes.
Their voice is quite strong.
OF (07:59):
So in those cases then, how much interface do you have with the multi-brands?
KY (08:04):
In Korea, I had a lot of opportunity to have conversations with these multi-brand
owners, and then also their teams.
Because in Korea the multi-brand businesswas really booming.
But in China, the multi-brand segment is quitesmall.
OF (08:18):
Ah.
KY (08:19):
So that's why I don't have much chance to connect with them.
So that's one of the big differences.
Outside of China, most mature markets havea really big portion of this multi-brand business.
OF (08:32):
Me - as someone who is not very fashion-focused, I don't really have much loyalty either, I'm
a terrible consumer - that’s the kind ofplace that I would definitely go to.
KY (08:41):
Yeah.
OF (08:42):
But you're saying that in the context of China not being a mature market?
Is that the difference?
KY (08:47):
No, I wouldn't say that it's not being a mature market.
I don't know, there isn’t any clear answer.
The consumer, whether they want to see everybrand's full range in each brand’s stores…
I don't think so.
It's more about the landlord.
These giant landlords, in order to make theirfashion mall to be more inspiring, they need
(09:08):
the one-store consumer journey.
OF (09:11):
Because what you're saying is, if you have a multi-brand store in one of these big
fashion malls, it doesn't feel special enough,right?
KY (09:18):
Yeah.
Maybe also China is like a giant opportunityin terms of the territory perspective.
Each brand doesn't need to be really squeezedinto a multi-brand store.
That's what I think.
OF (09:29):
Yeah.
KY (09:30):
Yeah.
OF (09:31):
In your current role, you’re looking after just one line of clothing, right?
KY (09:35):
I'm doing a category merchandising role, which is actually women's sports performance
apparel in adidas, and the adidas by StellaMcCartney line, yeah.
OF (09:46):
Right.
KY (09:47):
The current role is really front end, I plan the segmentation distribution in advance.
For example, I have 100 different products.
Out of 100 products, 20 products must go to‘hype drop’.
OF (10:01):
‘Hype drop’?
KY (10:02):
‘Hype drop’.
Like, you know, this is really really…
OF (10:05):
Special.
KY (10:06):
Special.
We want to control supply so that we maintaina high level of desire.
And I want to drive the desire.
So I make a decision, and then control whichstores can sell this one, which stores drive
this one.
When we put everything together, we ensurethat we don't have any kind of missing opportunity.
OF (10:23):
Right.
KY (10:24):
Where is the right place to launch at the right time?
OF (10:27):
Right.
KY (10:28):
Because not every place is the right place, not every time is the right time.
OF (10:39):
The franchisees have an understanding about what they think will sell in their store.
So they can sometimes push back on you.
KY (10:51):
Sometimes they just want it.
OF (10:52):
Oh they just want it, right.
KY (10:54):
Yeah, either way.
OF (10:55):
That’s a tricky relationship to actually manage then.
Because you have to withhold from certainpeople, and give to maybe they're competing
franchisees?
KY (11:04):
Yeah, endless negotiation.
Endless negotiation.
If the category is going well, then it’sa positive negotiation.
You know, everybody wants it.
But…
OF (11:13):
Oh but if it’s not going well, oh gosh…
KY (11:14):
Yeah.
Then everybody is pushing back.
OF (11:16):
They don't want it in their store.
KY (11:18):
Of course, yeah.
OF (11:19):
Wow.
KY (11:20):
We need to respect that they also run the business, and need to make profit.
OF (11:23):
Because each franchisee is its own business.
KY (11:26):
Yes.
OF (11:27):
They have their own profit and loss.
KY (11:28):
Yeah.
OF (11:29):
When has something really gone wrong?
Like, when could you not negotiate your wayout of something?
And of course, don't tell me which brand thiswas, this could be any of the brands you've
worked in.
KY (11:38):
We have some products, where we believe that in the long term, this is gonna be our
strategic focus.
Because we believe that if we put in the effortand investment, we can create the future.
OF (11:51):
Yes.
KY (11:52):
But in the meantime the customer only sees the short-term profit, because they have
the everyday P&L responsibility.
So that somehow they think…
OF (12:02):
They haven't got the luxury to think long-term, right?
KY (12:04):
Exactly.
OF (12:05):
Yes.
KY (12:06):
It’s a common thing.
We think there’s going to be demand creationin five years, three years, but it doesn't
show up now.
OF (12:14):
Yeah.
KY (12:15):
It is a big part of our negotiation.
If it wasn’t really really important forthe future, of course the brand will not push,
so there’s no need to negotiate.
But if we feel that this is for the longevityof our brand, then there is a timeframe that
the customer cannot see yet.
But the brand and the company can see thefuture.
OF (12:34):
And when you say customer, you mean the franchisee, right?
In this situation?
KY (12:37):
Yes, yes, yes.
OF (12:38):
This is where I imagine you need to educate the market…
KY (12:41):
At the same time, yeah.
OF (12:42):
… And this is a function of how successful the marketing for that product will be.
KY (12:46):
Totally, yeah.
OF (12:48):
And if the marketing misses, then you won't capture the audience that you expected,
and…
KY (12:51):
It’s really well said, yeah.
OF (12:53):
Right?
And that side is so unpredictable.
KY (12:55):
Yes.
OF (12:56):
Even though you’re marketing experts, I'm sure sometimes you just miss, right?
KY (12:57):
Hm-mm.
OF (12:58):
The guys at global, they have an idea about what they want to push, but I imagine
here in China…
KY (13:03):
China has power.
But Korea is also quite a strategically importantmarket.
That's why I could come to China.
OF (13:10):
Yeah.
KY (13:11):
So regardless of the size, Korea had some kind of support.
OF (13:16):
So when you're trying to find the mix between the products that come from global
and the products that you have innovated herein the market - let's say China - how can
you make it cohesive?
Because the things coming out of China mightactually be very different to what global
is trying to push down, right?
KY (13:32):
I think once you have the three stripes - you know, the adidas branding logo - or
the Nike swoosh, then it would not look verydifferent.
OF (13:40):
Right.
KY (13:41):
So this branding logo is very very important in terms of consistency.
OF (13:44):
Right.
That’s what creates the cohesion, right?
KY (13:46):
Yeah.
And then the creation centre, they alwaysfollow guidelines.
OF (13:49):
Yeah.
KY (13:50):
So that prevents awkward situations.
But at the same time, if you make it too identical,then there is no reason to have a creation
centre in Shanghai.
OF (13:59):
Yeah.
KY (14:00):
That’s why we always think about what the consumer needs are here, that are different
to the international market.
OF (14:06):
Yeah.
This is where I can see another really complicatedconflict that you have to work with, which
is…
You've got this global brand - that’s halfthe reason people walk into your store, they
know your brand - at the same time, the Chineseare becoming more proud of their own very
specific fashion.
So how can you then, as a global brand, competewith these competing Chinese brands?
KY (14:29):
Yeah, that’s a very relevant question.
OF (14:33):
Right.
KY (14:34):
And very sharp.
Yeah I think in the past, Nike and adidas- and all these international brands - actually
had a really great time.
But since COVID, 2020 was very tough and then2021 brought a difficult time for us.
The thing is, it forces international brandsto reconsider “What is the thing we need
(14:58):
to push through, to maintain the positionwe had before.”
This actually gave us a moment of great reflection.
Externally, the Chinese consumer could geta chance to open their eyes, and look around
to see what local brands had, offering goodproduct, and exciting novelty in terms of
(15:19):
concept, in terms of silhouette.
You know, the local brands were ready, andthey snapped the chance, and then have been
driving through until now.
So, we are now looking at how they succeededand have been continuing this competition.
OF (15:33):
Right.
KY (15:34):
And the common thing we found out is that actually, they are really providing a unique
selling point.
OF (15:40):
Which is..?
KY (15:41):
Which is either a little bit more bold design…
OF (15:43):
Ah.
KY (15:44):
Or their own character, like, you know, with 中国李宁 [Zhōngguó Lǐníng].
And then the product price is also very upper-level.
The consumer is reasonable, they are verysmart consumers nowadays, especially the young
generation.
So, you know, there is no reason they hesitatednot to buy, and try on, right?
OF (16:00):
Yeah.
They’re also quite adventurous, right?
They don't mind taking some risks.
They don't mind switching brands, much moreso than people in more mature markets, right?
KY (16:08):
Totally.
Yeah, yeah.
More open to exploring different opportunitiesthat are given to them.
So they are really focused on “What is thebenefit I can enjoy?”
You know?
OF (16:22):
Yes.
KY (16:23):
And then the other one is about how frequently we’re updating novelty.
OF (16:27):
Well, that's the issue, isn't it?
Because it's not just about being creative,it’s about how quickly you have to churn
out new things.
I can walk past the same shop - a Chinesebrand, for example - and they've changed the
window display every month!
KY (16:41):
Every month.
OF (16:42):
I'm like “What the hell?”
KY (16:43):
But we do, we do, we do that every month.
OF (16:44):
You do that too?
KY (16:45):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (16:46):
Ah.
KY (16:47):
But I think maybe with these Chinese brands, the degree of change is much more noticeable.
OF (16:51):
Aha.
KY (16:52):
Maybe, yeah.
But here is the thing, you know.
You need to be yourself.
Why I love adidas - first I ask to myself- is really its long history.
This will not go away.
OF (17:05):
That’s the heritage of the brand, right?
KY (17:07):
Exactly.
OF (17:08):
Yeah.
KY (17:09):
And that's the authenticity.
OF (17:10):
Yeah.
KY (17:11):
And this is the thing I need to focus on, even harder now.
OF (17:14):
Yes, yes.
KY (17:15):
Keep on trying to make this authentic brand still stay young, from a product perspective.
OF (17:21):
Yes.
KY (17:22):
Yeah.
OF (17:23):
And I wonder how many of these very competitive and very unique brands will last as long as
a brand like adidas.
It's very hard to know whether they will startto create this heritage themselves, or if
they will evaporate very quickly.
KY (17:36):
Totally.
Li-Ning is really doing well.
OF (17:38):
Ah Li-Ning, right.
KY (17:40):
Because Li-Ning had a kind of past history as an inspiring brand.
And they use it.
OF (17:46):
Right.
KY (17:47):
And they move the Chinese heart.
I'm also very inspired how they do this.
This is the identity that 中国李宁 [ZhōngguóLǐníng] will push forward over the next
10 years.
OF (17:56):
Mmm.
KY (17:57):
Yeah.
OF (17:58):
Is there a Korean brand that's also like that?
KY (17:59):
There is one brand, which is STYLENANDA.
They started to really set their identitysmartly.
And then they expanded their business portfolioto cosmetics as well.
OF (18:11):
Oh right.
We've talked a little bit about Korea in thischat.
Of course, you're from Korea.
Maybe now we should end this part of the conversationjust by talking about the differences between
your life in Korea versus here.
And how did you end up here in China, whatis that story?
KY (18:25):
Oh, I was working in Nike Korea.
I was in some project helping China.
And then in the middle of the project, suddenlyI got an offer to come.
And then I was little bit like “OK maybeafter one year, I will come back to Korea.”
Which was 10 years ago.
OF (18:46):
Oh wow.
And this is where you met your husband, thisis where you had your children.
KY (18:49):
Exactly.
It’s been a very positive impact in my life.
I wasn't unhappy.
But in the end, I was a bit bored, or therewasn't really a great opportunity for me to
develop my career actively.
But now in China, the company really pushedme.
(19:10):
“You can do it.
We believe that you can do it.
And then fix it.
And then you will create, you will enjoy.”
So the company really encouraged me to explore.
OF (19:20):
Yeah.
KY (19:21):
Also I look similar to a Chinese person.
OF (19:23):
Oh.
KY (19:24):
They speak straight to me in Chinese, without checking or anything.
I don't want to really make them embarrassed,so I just pretend that I understand.
OF (19:34):
Oh no!
KY (19:35):
And then I say “Sorry, this part I really cannot understand.
Can you explain it in English?”
And they’re “Oh!
Sorry, sorry, sorry!
My apologies!”
Something like that.
OF (19:46):
That’s cute.
KY (19:47):
I like it.
OF (19:48):
Yeah.
KY (19:49):
I like it that people think of me as Chinese.
OF (19:50):
Yeah.
KY (19:51):
I really really enjoy it.
Sometimes I ask “Which part of China doyou think I come from?”
OF (19:55):
Ah.
KY (19:56):
And then they say 山东 [Shāndōng].
OF (19:57):
Right, right, right.
KY (19:58):
Yeah.
Which actually makes sense because it's veryclose to Korea.
OF (20:00):
Yeah.
KY (20:01):
So “OK OK, makes sense.”
OF (20:03):
Thank you very much for that.
And thanks for your time today.
We will move on to Part 2.
KY (20:08):
Already?
I didn't feel the time pass.
Thank you, thank you, I really enjoyed it.
[Part 2]OF: So, the 10 questions.
OK.
OF (20:18):
Question 1, which comes from Shanghai Daily
fact?
KY (20:25):
Yeah, I think this is related to my object.
Just the one phone makes me so mobile.
In Korea, I still need to carry some cards…
OF (20:35):
Yes.
That's right.
I'm having a flashback to when I last wasin London.
My family have a house which is, I think,about 20 minutes from the local metro station,
The Underground.
KY (20:47):
Yeah.
OF (20:48):
And I remember walking all the way from the house to the metro station, and then realising
“Oh, I only have my phone.
And I can't pay for the metro.”
KY (20:58):
You totally forget it's not China.
OF (21:00):
Exactly.
And I had to go all the way back.
And it's a bloody steep hill…
KY (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
OF (21:05):
… To get back to this house.
Yeah.
All right next question, which comes fromRosetta Stone: Do you have a favourite word
or phrase in Chinese?
KY (21:13):
小姐 [Xiǎojiě] and 美女 [měinǚ].
OF (21:16):
Right.
KY (21:18):
小姐 [Xiǎojiě] means ‘little big-sister’, and then 美女 [měinǚ] is ‘beautiful
lady’.
So like, if someone doesn’t know my name- especially, you know, downstairs there is
an old lady, always sitting there when wego to the bus station to drop off the kids
- she’s always “美女 [měinǚ], 美女[měinǚ]”.
(21:40):
Like "Good morning.”
It's so nice and kind, I can feel that I havea presence.
OF (21:45):
Yes.
It's a feeling that you belong to the community,right?
KY (21:48):
Exactly, yeah.
Yeah.
OF (21:50):
Next question, which comes from naked Retreats
within China?
KY (21:55):
呼伦贝尔 [Hulunbuir].
OF (21:56):
呼伦贝尔 [Hulunbuir]].
KY (21:57):
Yeah.
The Inner Mongolia prairie.
OF (21:59):
OK.
KY (22:00):
Up north, even higher than 哈尔滨 [Hā’ěrbīn].
So very, very cold.
OF (22:04):
Ah.
KY (22:05):
Really up north, top of the northern part of the China border.
When you step into this prairie, You feellike you’re suddenly turning off the noise.
OF (22:15):
Yeah.
KY (22:16):
And I felt “Oh yeah, this is heaven”.
First time, I didn't go with my husband.
But the second time, my husband was like “Oh,this is even better than you explained.”
OF (22:27):
Yeah.
KY (22:28):
Isn’t it so beautiful.
OF (22:29):
That is great.
KY (22:30):
Yeah, it’s a really amazing place.
OF (22:32):
Thanks so much.
Next, if you left China, what would you missthe most, and what would you miss the least?
KY (22:38):
I will miss constant curiosity.
The local people always ask about “Whereare you from?”, “How much do you make?”,
“How much do you pay for your rental?”
In the beginning, sometimes it was embarrassing,but I have lived long enough not to be embarrassed.
And then I see the true intention, they arejust curious.
(23:00):
And they are just kind.
If I lose Pippi - because she ran off somewhere- then they will look for her together.
You know, always willing to give help.
OD (23:10):
Yeah.
KY (23:11):
And they're always easygoing, warm and nice.
That's why I feel…
OF (23:15):
At home.
KY (23:16):
Yeah.
OF (23:17):
Yeah.
And what would you miss the least?
KY (23:19):
Traffic.
The traffic itself is fine.
But the rules.
OF (23:25):
Ah.
KY (23:26):
You know, the crossroad.
They don't care about the pedestrian greenlight.
This, I will not miss.
OF (23:33):
OK, I have to agree with you here, this is funny.
The thing about turning right here on a redlight is that they don't look.
I know you can turn right, but can you doit slowly, and just keep looking in case there
is a pedestrian, right?
KY (23:47):
Yes.
OF (23:48):
They don't do that.
They just go as fast as though it was a greenlight.
And next question, which comes from SmartShanghai: Where is your favourite place to go out, to (23:52):
undefined
eat or drink or just hang out?
KY (23:59):
Ah, the 福建 [Fújiàn] dumpling soup place in 永康路 [Yǒngkānglù].
OF (24:03):
OK.
KY (24:04):
Epic place.
OF (24:05):
Really?
KY (24:06):
Yeah.
These owners, they know us.
OF (24:08):
Ah.
KY (24:09):
So they are always very kind, and we talked a lot.
They have been there seven years.
OF (24:15):
Oh right.
KY (24:16):
Yeah.
OF (24:17):
In Shanghai terms, that is eternity because nothing lasts long in Shanghai.
KY (24:20):
Exactly.
OF (24:21):
Nice.
KY (24:22):
Yeah.
OF (24:23):
Good, next question, what is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
KY (24:27):
Best purchase is a suit jacket.
Very trendy, made by my friend.
Whatever she makes, it’s a perfect balance.
OF (24:36):
I will ask you for a photo later.
KY (24:38):
Yes, yes.
OF (24:39):
Next question.
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
KY (24:43):
Oh, I always sing ‘Gangnam Style’.
OF (24:46):
Oh god.
Because you can sing everything in Korean,right?
KY (24:51):
Yeah.
So I’m in an outstanding position…
OF (24:55):
Fair enough.
KY (24:56):
… Just because of the language.
OF (24:57):
That’s actually a good choice, yeah.
KY (24:59):
Yeah.
They really enjoy to see me singing and dancing.
OF (25:03):
You do the dances?
KY (25:04):
Of course.
Without the dancing, you’d better not sing‘Gangnam Style’.
OF (25:07):
Absolutely.
No way.
KY (25:09):
Yeah.
And then I sing a Chinese song, which is 新不了情[Xīn Bùliǎo Qíng].
OF (25:14):
OK.
KY (25:15):
It's a very old song from a movie in Hong Kong.
OF (25:19):
Ah.
KY (25:20):
Like, a long time ago.
Somehow I just fell in love with this song.
OF (25:24):
Ah.
KY (25:25):
And then I actually wrote down the song lyrics, and then understood what it means,
and then I practiced by myself.
I really really went to KTV to practice thesong.
OF (25:36):
Yes.
KY (25:37):
And then singing together is just so beautiful.
OF (25:39):
Oh I’m gonna have to check it out.
What's it called again?
KY (25:42):
新不了情 [Xīn Bùliǎo Qíng].
OF (25:43):
And finally, what or who is your biggest source of inspiration in China?
KY (25:49):
Authenticity.
And then honesty.
And then passion really moved me a lot.
The people who have this passion.
For example, they really think about the reason,and then analyse deeply, and then try to share
with me what they believe.
This whole conversation moves me a lot.
(26:10):
There is no real benefit for he or she todo this.
But I can get some very great ideas.
OF (26:16):
That makes sense.
And I can also see how that ties in with yourstory from the beginning.
Because we're talking about the way that youhave worked with brands, you have to innovate,
but you have to always be authentic.
KY (26:27):
Yes.
OF (26:28):
So it’s a good way to end our conversation.
Thank you so much YoungAh.
KY (26:31):
Thank you.
OF (26:33):
Before you leave let me ask you, who do you recommend that I interview in the next
season of Mosaic of China?
KY (26:39):
I would introduce Bas Roeterink.
He's producing a lot of interesting films.
Anyone who has authenticity really inspiresme, and he is one of those people.
And then he really puts his value into theworld.
So I think he might be an interesting guestfor you.
OF (26:57):
Beautiful.
KY (26:58):
Yeah.
OF (26:59):
What question would you ask Bas for the beginning of my interview with him next season?
KY (27:04):
What is the most proud thing he has done in China?
OF (27:08):
Thank you again YoungAh.
KY (27:10):
Thank you.
I really enjoyed it.
[Outro]OF: And that’s all from YoungAh.
It was a relatively short episode this week,so if you’re still in the mood to hear more
about the business of fashion, be sure tolisten back to the episode with Casey Hall
from Season 02 Episode 22, who was a Chinajournalist from the magazine called Business
(27:32):
of Fashion.
And if you’re still a bit confused aboutthe difference between customers and consumers,
then I recommend you listen to the catch-upchat with Jorge Luzio - who works in marketing
at Coca-Cola - which can be found at the endof the interview with Siri Nordhejm from Season
03 Episode 04.
And finally, YoungAh is the first guest onMosaic of China who comes from Korea, but
(27:56):
if you’d like to hear another episode witha Korea connection, check out the show with
the New Zealand diplomat Tom Barker from Season01 Episode 25, who discusses his life in Korea
before coming to China.
The big update from YoungAh since we recordedthis episode is that she has been promoted
to a global VP merchandising role at adidas,so after a decade in China she is now based
(28:21):
in Germany, along with her husband and family.
But as for the other guest - who was silentduring the interview except for the sound
of her claws on the wooden flooring - Pippiis still in Shanghai living with friends of
the family.
So YoungAh expects that she will be comingfor regular visits to meet up with Pippi,
now that travel has become a lot easier.
(28:44):
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell.
After the music, there’s a short catch-upwith the person who referred YoungAh to the
Mosaic, the architect Wendy Saunders fromSeason 02 Episode 12.
And I’ll see you back here next time.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello!
WS (29:08):
Hello!
OF (29:11):
The last time I saw your face was when I bumped into you in Shanghai, as we were
both officially/unofficially allowed out ofour compounds.
WS (29:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
OF (29:23):
And where do I find you today?
WS (29:28):
Yeah, I'm in Antwerp actually.
OF (29:30):
And Antwerp of course, because you were born in Belgium, you are half English, you
worked in Amsterdam before you came to Shanghai…
So Antwerp is what for you?
Is it where your family still lives?
WS (29:42):
No, actually not.
But it's kind of in between where I'm from,and where my partner’s from actually.
I mean, I'm looking forward to going backalso.
But it's also been really very refreshing.
OF (29:54):
Yeah.
Well, for anyone who didn't hear your originalepisode, I should introduce you.
You are a co-founder of the architecture companyAIM Architecture.
WS (30:03):
U-huh.
OF (30:04):
So you've been doing architecture in Shanghai…
Gosh, how many years Is it now?
WS (30:07):
About sixteen now.
OF (30:09):
Sixteen.
And for people who are in Shanghai, one ofthe most noticeable things that you've done
is with your partnership with the HARMAY brand.
I keep seeing more things pop up.
This is an online retail brand, and you weretasked to help design their offline physical
presence.
Tell me, how has your partnership with HARMAYcontinued over the last 18 months?
WS (30:29):
Well, I think we've been lucky with that partnership.
I mean, they're always trying to push theboundary of their presence.
It's also a challenge, because of course,you have to constantly re-invent the envelope,
and kind of push it.
So in that sense you can't really slack off,every time it's different.
You have a different condition, differentquestions.
Some of the stores are really in special situationslike the one on 安福路 [Ānfú Lù], on
(30:53):
the corner.
OF (30:54):
Yes.
And I'm not surprised to see architectureplaying a bigger part in retail, since it
is all about the experience these days, correct?
WS (31:02):
Yeah.
Also, I think for how get the people in, gettingthem to come in the first place.
Because you can buy anything anywhere.
OF (31:09):
Yes.
WS (31:10):
And it should be a place where people can come and hang out, and be part of that
community.
OF (31:16):
What about, then, other projects?
Because I know that you're not just doingwork in retail.
give me a quick update on what you've beenworking on since we last caught up.
WS (31:23):
Well we're doing also a few hotels.
So we also did the Hyatt Unbound in 景德镇[Jǐngdézhèn].
We finished that, that was also a very excitingproject because it has this story about the
exploration of all the different types ofpottery, and we tried to work with that in
the interior.
So yeah, keeping busy for sure.
OF (31:43):
That’s good.
In fact, I haven't been to 景德镇 [Jǐngdézhèn]before, so when I do, I'll definitely check
out that hotel.
WS (31:49):
It's an interesting city to go for a weekend.
And you can very easily get into the countryside.
And this beautiful museum is there also, andthere's a lot of nice interesting architecture
happening at the moment.
OF (32:04):
Oh, there you go.
Well, thank you for your time this morning.
It's good to see you again.
And before I let you go, of course, I willbe including this update at the back of the
episode of the person who you referred forSeason 03, which was our friend Kim YoungAh.
WS (32:16):
Yes.
OF (32:17):
Have you managed to keep in touch with her and her husband?
WS (32:20):
Yes.
And she's moving to Germany.
OF (32:22):
Yes.
Well, she will be one of those people fromthe season with whom I did the interview,
and then since during the interview, she hasleft China.
There are actually quite a few like that,so…
WS (32:31):
Yeah!
So many people.
OF (32:33):
Yeah.
WS (32:34):
It’s kind of sad also.
OF (32:36):
Well, I will still be here when you come back.
WS (32:38):
OK, cool.
OF (32:39):
So I look forward to seeing your smiley face on the street again.
WS (32:42):
OK, let's catch up for a drink then.
OF (32:46):
Good.
In the meantime, thank you again.
WS (32:48):
Thank you.
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