March 27, 2023 • 43 mins
In 1996, China acquired a decommissioned Soviet aircraft carrier, with the express intention of using it as the centrepiece of a theme park in the city of 天津 [Tiānjīn]. Today, the 濱海 [Bīnhǎi] Aircraft Carrier Theme Park is still operative, and the enormous ship stands as the backdrop of a pirate stunt show. Today’s episode is with Frank Abel, who has been coordinating these stunts since 2012, as well as building and maintaining the modified stunt vehicles on display. A veteran stunt man, Frank has a lifetime of tall tales from the worlds of movies and theme parks, both in the U.S. and China. So it was a unique pleasure to include just a few of these in today’s episode. The episode also includes catch-up interviews with: Murray King from Season 02 Episode 29 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-29-murray-king and Emily Madge from Season 01 Episode 14 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-14-emily-madge 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 00:42 - Part 1 22:21 - Part 2 31:52 - Outro 34:55 - Catch-Up Interview [1] 38:26 - Catch-Up Interview [2] Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at: https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-17-frank-abel Join the community: Instagram https://instagram.com/oscology LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina Facebook https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
[Trailer]FA: And I yelled off the perch “Hey mom
I’m up here!”
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
This is a project which has been designedto showcase a wide array of unique voices,
(00:24):
and today’s episode is no exception.
Speaking to Frank Abel immediately transportedme to an entirely different world, and I’m
excited for you to experience the same thing.
So let me keep today’s intro short, here’smy conversation with Frank.
[Part 1]OF: Hello there Frank.
FA (00:44):
Hello.
OF (00:45):
I should say straight away that we are doing this recording remotely.
I should have been up there with you, butwe'll talk about why that wasn't possible.
Before we start, where actually are you inChina right now?
FA (00:58):
I'm in the 濱海 [Bīnhǎi] New Area in 天津 [Tiānjīn].
OF (01:02):
天津 [Tiānjīn], exactly.
I was supposed to be up there in 天津 [Tiānjīn]a few months ago now.
I had been on a skiing trip quite nearby in吉林 [Jílín].
And I was very clever to say “OK, I'm goingto be in 吉林 [Jílín], so I will scoot
down to 天津 [Tiānjīn] and we can do ourrecording.”
And of course, that was exactly when thingsstarted to lock down in 2022 here in China.
(01:25):
I can't travel, so unfortunately, this’llhave to do.
FA (01:29):
Well, we've tried very hard to get together.
And our schedules have a little bit to dowith it.
But I think the virus is the biggest culprit.
OF (01:38):
Yes.
But it's still very nice to see your faceover video anyway.
And maybe you should, in one sentence, justexplain what it is that you do up there in
天津 [Tiānjīn].
FA (01:50):
In America, I would say I'm a stunt man.
But sometimes I tell Chinese people “I'ma stunt man” and they look at me like they're
real confused as to what I do.
It doesn't really translate well.
The most recognised title of what I do is'action actor’ to the Chinese.
Sometimes I'll even say “Like Jackie Chan”,then they kind of understand.
(02:12):
But ‘action actor’, and then I also buildvehicles for stunts: boats, cars, motorcycles,
different action vehicles.
OF (02:22):
Well, we are going to go into all of that.
But before we do, the first question I askeveryone at the beginning of this podcast
is (02:30):
What is the object that you have prepared that in some way represents your life here
in China?
FA (02:37):
It’s a little model of an aircraft carrier.
OF (02:40):
Oh.
FA (02:41):
And it represents the aircraft carrier at the 濱海 [Bīnhǎi] Theme Park, which
is an aircraft carrier theme park here in天津 [Tiānjīn].
It's where I've spent the last ten years doingmost of my work, both building vehicles as
well as performing stunts.
They have a car stunt show and a water stuntshow.
OF (03:05):
Perfect.
And it's also making me doubly annoyed thatI can't be up there to go to the actual stunt
show.
That was one of the reasons I really wantedto be in 天津 [Tiānjīn], so I hope that
there will be a chance for me to come up atsome point in the future.
Can you give me a quick rundown as to whatthat place is?
It sounds quite bizarre to have a theme parkbased on an aircraft carrier.
FA (03:26):
Well, the aircraft carrier is actually the backdrop of our stunt show.
So you couldn't ask for a better stage.
And the theme of the show is, the piratesare trying to take over the aircraft carrier.
The theme park has not only got the aircraftcarrier, but recently they brought in a submarine
(03:47):
and some other ships into the lake area.
They have tanks, they have fighter jets, aswell as this massive retired Russian aircraft
carrier.
So it's geared more towards Russian history.
They also have a replica of an old streetin Russia as well.
(04:09):
Prior to the virus, there was over a millionpeople a year who came to the park.
OF (04:13):
Wow.
It sounds like you are in some kind of geopoliticalnexus there.
FA (04:18):
You know, we have people from all over the world.
We have no discussion of politics, just havinga good time enjoying ourselves.
OF (04:28):
Well, why don't we start straight into what it is that you do, day-in day-out at
the theme park?
FA (04:35):
Normally when I get there, my first priority is to make sure all the vehicles are prepared
for the show, operational and also safe.
After that, then I assist with the stunt teamto make sure all of their preparations are
also safe.
And in addition to the vehicles, I also amresponsible for the rigging of each show.
(04:58):
So all of your ropes have to be tied right,and there are daily checks in preparation
for each one of those as well.
And then during the show, we have backup vehiclesfor each one of the vehicles in the show.
You know, we're doing things that these thingsare not made to do.
We're jumping boats, we're submerging jetskis, we're driving cars on two wheels, crashing
(05:22):
motorcycles through fire.
And I've done my best to redesign them, tohold up against these things.
But anything can go wrong.
'The show must go on’, as the old sayinggoes.
So we have backup vehicles, we can swap thevehicles out, keep the show moving at a steady
pace.
There are also fire burns going on, there’sacrobatics, there are five people on stage
(05:48):
fighting at the same time, there are peoplejumping off the ship, there are machine gun
battles going on.
You know, I've seen this show for ten years,I know where to look.
And I can sit in the audience and I cannotview everything that's going on at the same
time.
There's always something to see.
OF (06:07):
Tell me, at what stage in the creation of that show did you first come in?
FA (06:12):
I was actually asked to come over in 2012.
The show had been in operation for a coupleyears.
They were having trouble with one of the boats,and they found me and asked me if I would
come over and design a new boat.
We took one of the old boats, and then completelyreconfigured it so it could be more dependable.
(06:35):
We were supposed to build two of them, butit works so well, we ended up only building
one of them.
And the thing, still to this day, is usedin the shows.
I also am able to perform in the show.
I don't take on any of the larger roles inthe show, because of my responsibility with
the vehicles and the rigging.
(06:57):
But I've been able to play several differentroles in the show.
One has a high dive, one has a fire burn,some comedy shows that we do…
OF (07:06):
Is it normal for a stuntman to also be this expert in vehicles?
FA (07:10):
I think my situation evolved with my surroundings, you know you’re a product of your environment.
But it is very common for a stuntman to havemany other occupations.
The stunt man is like an actor, and the workis few and far between, especially when all
you're doing is movies.
So you've got other occupations that you pursuein between.
(07:35):
You're basically like a football player thathas to stay in condition and train for the
next job, as well as in between each job tryingto support your family and keep income coming.
But also you’re your own booking agent,constantly hustling to try to find the next
job as well.
I couldn't even list all the different jobsthat I've had in between my stunt jobs.
OF (07:59):
Yes.
In which case, a theme park where it's predictableincome, is that the ultimate gig for a stuntman?
FA (08:07):
Actually, throughout the stunt industry, it's kind of looked down upon.
OF (08:12):
Oh.
FA (08:13):
Back in the 80s, if you worked at a live stunt show, they wouldn't even consider you
for a movie.
OF (08:20):
Huh.
FA (08:21):
Nowadays, it's the training ground for the movie industry.
Because they have the training, they knowthe safety aspects, and things like that.
And it's much more reliable than finding theguy on Facebook looking for a stunt job that
has been on a trampoline three times in hislife.
OF (08:39):
Since we're now talking about stunts in the movies versus stunts in live shows, what
actually is the difference between the two?
FA (08:45):
The stunts in the live shows, these are performed sometimes ten times a day.
So they really have to be analysed, and blocked,and coordinated, to eliminate any risk of
someone getting hurt.
We do a lot of rehearsals and practising.
All the performers are trained for each particularstunt over and over again.
(09:11):
Whereas in a movie, they want to get it onfilm.
So if you're lucky, you get it done one time.
Normally there'll be, of course, some preparingfor the stunt.
You know, all the safety aspects are stillthere.
But once it's performed, it's over, it's donewith.
They get it on film, it's history.
(09:33):
So stunts in the live shows are more dialledback, I want to say.
OF (09:39):
Right.
And we're talking about films versus themeparks through the lens of the U.S. Why don't
we then come back to China?
Have you worked in both of these areas inChina, or have you only been working at the
park?
FA (09:52):
Actually, I've been blessed to be able to work some film work here.
A friend of mine asked me to go help withthe Jackie Chan film, Kung Fu Yoga.
OF (10:02):
Oh right.
FA (10:03):
I got to work in conjunction with Jackie Chan, so it was really cool.
I've also been asked to do some commercialsand some advertisements and things like that,
doing bit-part acting, doing stunts, consulting,things like that for the movie industry.
OF (10:19):
And so what are the differences between your experiences in the film industry back
in the States, versus what you've experiencedhere?
FA (10:27):
On set, it's at the directors pace.
You know, the director always determines what'sgoing on, how fast.
So actually, on set is very similar to theStates, from my experiences.
Off set is a completely different world.
The industry in China is similar to the industryin America 20-30 years ago.
(10:53):
Before very strict union rules, very strictcontracts, any structure was brought about.
For example, the agents.
In America, when you want to sign with anagent, you choose one agent, you sign with
that agent, and you are not allowed to signwith any other agent.
OF (11:13):
Right.
FA (11:14):
So you're very limited as to your representation.
In China, on my WeChat, I've probably gotover 200 agents.
OF (11:24):
Oh my god.
FA (11:25):
And it's like the cow that fell into the Amazon River, and the piranha are out.
OF (11:32):
Oh.
FA (11:33):
When there's a film, the production company will contact a bunch of agents, and cut them
loose.
You know, sometimes I'll get called from fouror five different agents on the same production.
And even sometimes with different price ranges.
In America, they would never work again.
(11:53):
In China, this is standard.
You can't really point fingers at this.
Because one, the production has to get thejob done.
Of course, they're going to call all the agentsthey can, to find those resources.
Now the agents, they have to make money, andthey're gonna hire the cheapest person that
(12:14):
they can.
OF (12:15):
Right.
FA (12:16):
They're all making a living.
It's just the business.
OF (12:19):
Yeah.
FA (12:20):
And in America, it's the same thing, there’s just more control and more restrictions.
OF (12:25):
Yes.
FA (12:26):
As far as pay rate, in the States there's also what they call ‘adjustment fees’.
You get a daily rate for showing up to theset, and that includes your basic stunts.
If you're going to do something elaborate- as far as a high fall, a fire burn, they
want to blow you up - then there's a fee ontop of what you're paid for the day.
(12:50):
And that is paid each time that you performthe stunt.
So, say they do five takes on the stunt, theymay end up paying you five times the adjustment
fee, plus your daily rate…
OF (13:04):
Oh.
FA …In order to perform a stunt.
But hang on then, let me interrupt you there.
Because then, doesn't that incentivise thestunt man to make mistakes the first four
times?
FA (13:15):
Not so much.
You take four takes, you're not coming backnext week.
OF (13:20):
Yes.
FA (13:21):
If you get it done in one take, the director’s happy, he's gonna invite you back.
In China, when you negotiate your daily rate,you pretty much are locked in to that fee
for anything that you do.
OF (13:37):
A director can take multiple, multiple, multiple takes with no extra cost, right?
So they might put the stunt man through thewringer, and the stunt man would just get
paid the same.
FA (13:46):
Oh yeah.
And I worked on a film here, and we did fiverehearsals until the director was happy with
the action, and nothing was even filmed yet.
And then they would film it, and everybodywent through the same action.
And then they would move one camera, and gothrough the whole action again.
And then move one camera, and do the wholeaction again.
(14:11):
Because those cameras are a huge cost.
In America, they'll have seven or ten camerason set, and do it once.
Versus here, you know, you have the directorin a tent, nobody sees him, he has an imagination
of what he wants to see, and if he doesn'tsee it we're doing it again.
OF (14:32):
Gosh, yeah.
And of course, in both cases, it's just aboutbudget.
But I can see how in the States - with actorsbeing more expensive - then you cut costs
on using the actors.
Here in China, if the cameras are more expensive,you just have one and make the actors do it
again and again.
I can see exactly how it works.
FA (14:50):
Right.
OF (14:51):
Well, how the hell did you become a stunt man in the first place?
FA (14:54):
I was born.
I was born with no fear.
What really got me into stunts was, I startedspringboard diving when I was eight years
old.
OF (15:08):
Aha.
FA (15:09):
And, you know, my diving coach would ask me “Can you do a double flip?”
And I would say “I don't know, but I'lltry.”
OF (15:14):
Wow.
FA (15:15):
And I would go up and do it until I got it right.
And if I crashed, if I got hurt, I didn'tcare, I wanted to get it finished.
That switch that tells you “This is crazy,don’t do it" is not in my thought process.
It's like “Oh, this is cool, I wanna doit.”
OF (15:33):
Interesting.
FA (15:34):
And I took a family vacation to Hawaii.
And we went to this place called Waimea Falls,and there's a waterfall that falls over about
45 feet.
And next to it is a perch about 65 feet high,which is 90 metres.
I was 14 years old at the time (15:52):
1978.
And I was watching the little native boysfrom Hawaii jump off this perch into the water.
And it was all brown water, you couldn't seewhat you were jumping into.
And I talked my parents into allowing me toclimb the waterfalls, that was the first obstacle.
(16:12):
But my mom said “Well as long as you gofrom this side, it's only about 40 feet, I'll
take a picture.”
And I said “OK well I'll go on up.”
Well I climbed the 45 foot side, and I crossedthe stream, and I proceeded to climb up to
the 65/70 foot perch.
OF (16:27):
I knew you would say that, yeah.
FA (16:30):
And I yelled off the perch “Hey mom, I'm up here!”
And jumped off the perch.
The adrenaline rush was like an addictionto a drug.
It's like a tingling sensation throughoutyour whole body.
OF (16:44):
So then, from that experience, did you already know that you wanted to gear yourself
up for this career?
Or did it happen more by chance later on inlife?
FA (16:53):
No, actually that was the end of it.
When I was 14, I went back to diving, youknow, I did my competition diving.
And when I was 16 years old, I was invitedto go to Nationals.
I vividly remember a conversation with mymother.
She said “You need to choose, continue andgo to the Olympics, or do you want to do this
(17:15):
stunt stuff?
Either way, I'll support you.
But you need to make a decision, pursue it,and never give it up.”
I remember saying “Well mom, diving, I goto the Olympics - maybe two Olympics - and
then I'm a diving coach for the rest of mylife.
OF (17:32):
Yeah.
FA (17:33):
And stunts, I really love it, and it's something I want to do the rest of my life.
And she did her research prior to this conversation,and said “Well I know of a stunt school
you can go to, Kahana Stunt School.
I'll pay for the school, but you're on yourown after that.”
I've got children that are 20 and 25 yearsold - and a daughter here in China who’s
(17:57):
six now - and I think my mom was out of hermind sending me to Hollywood to be a stuntman
when I was 16 years old.
OF (18:08):
Wow.
FA (18:09):
But I stuck to it.
And here I am, 42 years later, still doingit.
OF (18:14):
Yeah.
You mentioned your family.
What does this kind of work do to your relationships,with your family, with your friends?
FA (18:22):
It absolutely destroys all relationships.
You know, in one aspect it develops relationships,because of course, everybody wants to meet
the unknown stunt man.
But as far as true relationships - your friends,your family - you don't have much time.
(18:42):
You've got a production schedule, you’retravelling.
Say, my children in the States, I won't sayI neglected them, I've provided for them,
I've always loved them.
But I haven't always been there because I'mon set.
It's a love hate relationship.
OF (18:57):
Yeah.
And I'm surprised that you talk about it justin terms of timing.
Because for me, I would also imagine thisperson who likes to take risks.
Doesn’t that lend itself to a certain kindof thinking?
FA (19:11):
Well, that's kind of a prerequisite for my relationships.
I'm crazy, I jump off cliffs, I set myselfon fire, crash cars.
If this is going to worry you, I don't wantto have anything to do with you.
OF (19:25):
Yeah.
FA (19:26):
As far as my family, they accepted it fifty years ago, when I was seven.
OF (19:30):
Yes.
FA (19:31):
You know, my kids, they didn't really know what I was doing until later in life.
But, you know, they all know me.
And they know that this is my passion.
They know they cannot talk me out of it.
If they tell me “This is crazy, you shouldn'tdo this”, then I'm going to do it even more.
OF (19:48):
What was the biggest accident or incident that you've been involved in?
FA (19:51):
In 42 years of doing stunts, I've had one injury that was worth speaking of.
When I was in training, I went through mybeginning course of stunt school.
And during the course, I did a fire stuntfor my pictures to do my résumé.
And I was burned horrifically.
(20:12):
And actually, my brother and my father werepresent at the filming of the stunt.
That was probably the most tragic and actuallyonly time I was injured.
OF (20:25):
Yeah.
And then it's just a testament to your professionalismthat you never did that ever again, I suppose.
I mean, is there some kind of bravado?
You know, you meet up with other stunt peoplein bars, and compare your accidents?
Or actually, is an accident a symbol of howyou're not good at your job?
FA (20:43):
Well yeah, we do compare scars and wounds.
And, you know, I call them ‘Frank's talltales’.
You know, experiences that we've had throughoutour lives.
I was trained by Kahana, a very prominentstunt man in America.
And he told me “There's a stunt man, andthere's a daredevil.”
OF (21:04):
Ah.
FA (21:05):
A stunt man performs a scientific approach, to create an illusion of a dangerous feat.
A daredevil performs a dangerous feat.
OF (21:17):
Mmm.
FA (21:18):
And the difference is that the stunt man walks away without injury.
You know, you got your Evel Knievel who jumps27 buses, and crashes, brakes 17 bones, but
still made $200,000 performing his ‘stunt’.
Well, he's a daredevil.
The guy that spends time with the choreographers,the stunt coordinator, and the scientists,
(21:44):
to make sure that he can perform the stuntwith no risk to getting hurt, and performs
it, films it, and presents that to the worldfor entertainment, that’s a stunt man.
OF (21:56):
Well said.
Well, thank you so much Frank.
I am of course, neither of those.
So for someone like me, it is really fascinatingto talk to you.
Not just about your risk appetite, but alsothe world that you live in, and the skills
that you must bring to the table each andevery day.
I really appreciate you sharing that.
FA (22:16):
Well, thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
OF (22:18):
And now we move on to Part 2.
[Part 2]OF: OK, are you ready?
We're gonna do the 10 questions…
FA (22:27):
Oh yeah!
I’ve been dying to do this!
OF (22:30):
Good!
Let's jump straight in.
The first question, which comes from ShanghaiDaily: What is your favourite China-related
fact?
FA (22:40):
The fact that China has been here so long.
I went to work on a project in Taishan, andit was at a theme park.
And I was walking through this tunnel thathad a 3D animation, and I'm asking “What
is this all about?”
And he says “Well, this explains the 6,000years of history of Taishan."
(23:00):
And I'm like "So this city has been here for6,000 years?”
“Well yeah!”
And the fact that China has been in existence- keeping records in history - for thousands
and thousands of years, it's just phenomenal.
OF (23:15):
Well said.
Next question, which comes from Rosetta Stone: Do you have a favourite word or phrase in (23:18):
undefined
Chinese?
FA (23:23):
一笑解千愁 [Yīxiào jiě qiān chóu].
My Chinese pronunciation sucks so…
The meaning is "A smile that solves a thousandworries.”
OF (23:35):
一笑解千愁 [Yīxiào jiě qiān chóu].
Yes.
FA (23:38):
Even in English, one of my favourite sayings is “Keep smiling and no-one knows what you're
up to.”
You know, whether you're depressed - you’vegot family problems, no matter what is going
on in your life - if you're smiling, it actuallyworks.
You know, being happy and trying to smile,it does solve a thousand worries.
OF (23:59):
Yes.
FA (24:00):
Besides “你好美女 [nǐ hǎo měinǚ], that's my favourite.
OF (24:04):
Oh dear.
Next question - and this one comes from nakedRetreats - what is your favourite destination
within China?
FA (24:13):
西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà].
OF (24:14):
Oh nice.
FA (24:16):
I was invited to go do a show in 西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà].
And it's just totally jungle, and more jungle.
OF (24:24):
Yeah FA
know, just another world compared to the concretejungle that I've spent most of my life in
China in.
Yes.
Of course, they're on opposite sides of thecountry, with 天津 [Tiānjīn] up in the
Northeast, and 西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà]down in the southwest.
Let's move on.
Question 4, if you left China, what wouldyou miss the most, and what would you miss
(24:45):
the least?
FA (24:46):
Missing the most is relationships.
Whether I worked with them, or met them atthe store - the guy that runs the little store
where I buy my water bottles from - the relationshipsis what it's all about here in China.
OF (25:00):
Mmm.
FA (25:01):
And I think that's what I'll miss the most.
OF (25:03):
Got it.
And how about the least?
FA (25:05):
The horns.
OF (25:06):
Oh.
FA (25:08):
The car horns!
It's a courtesy to blow your horn.
If someone's in your way, you blow your hornjust to let them know you're there, because
it's a polite thing to do.
OF (25:18):
Yeah.
FA (25:19):
And that's culture.
But I look forward to the day of being homeand not hearing the car horns outside.
OF (25:26):
Next question, is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
FA (25:32):
My air conditioning is broken in my house.
And in America, if you call the air conditionerguy, he wouldn't leave until it was fixed.
And he would look for the opportunity to makeas much money as he could, resolving your
problem.
OF (25:51):
Mm-hm.
FA (25:52):
The guy who came the other day, he shows up on a moped, he comes in and he says “Well,
what air conditioner's not working?”
I said “The one in the bedroom.”
And he goes over and looks at it.
And he grabbed the remote control and turnedit on, and he says “OK, yeah, it doesn't
work.
I'll be back tomorrow with my tools.”
OF (26:10):
Oh!
FA (26:12):
Then next day, he comes back.
And he brought his tools.
So he took it apart, and he says “I needa part.
It's gonna be two or three days.”
So he came back two or three days later.
And he puts it together.
And he says “We'll try this.
If it works, we'll be OK.
If not, I'll be back in a couple of days.”
OF (26:34):
OK I can relate to the story now.
Because I do have this handyman who came threetimes to fix one small problem with a sink.
And firstly, there was a leak.
And then secondly, he put the tubes in thewrong way, so hot was cold and cold was hot.
I mean, there was a different issue each time.
I think what you're talking about is thishandyman ‘师傅 Shīfù’ culture.
(26:57):
He’s playing the odds, because out of allthe call-outs he has, there might be three
or four that he can do just by himself, justtwiddling this knob, twiddling that knob.
Maybe that's what's happening.
FA (27:07):
Yeah, he's scheduled his day to analyse three jobs, and to complete two or three.
OF (27:13):
Yeah.
It reminds me of the story about the directoron the set.
You know, you're gonna do what makes you themost money at the least cost.
Boom.
FA (27:22):
Yes, yes.
Absolutely.
OF (27:24):
OK next question, which comes from SmartShanghai: Where is your favourite place to go out, to
eat or drink or just hang out?
FA (27:31):
There is a pub called Jacky’s that resides right across the street from me.
I've been going there since the first nightthat I arrived in China.
They've been called me ‘Frank’ since theday I walked in.
The waitstaff and the owners, they’re alljust very professional, very friendly.
OF (27:50):
Very nice.
It reminds me of Norm from Cheers, right?
You walk in there, and everyone says “Frank!”
FA (27:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
OF (27:58):
Excellent.
Next question.
What is the best or worst purchase you'vemade in China?
FA (28:03):
Best purchase I made is, I want to say, my motorcycle.
I struggled between a Harley-Davidson anda Chinese motorcycle.
But I found a nice Chinese replica at 10%of the price of a Harley-Davidson.
Being a stunt man, and with my background,I enjoy motorcycles.
That's my escape.
OF (28:24):
How did I know that you would have a motorcycle?
FA (28:27):
Of course.
Now getting the licence - the two years ittook to get my motorcycle licence, and all
the **** that went into being able to drivethat motorcycle - was not the best experience.
OF (28:38):
Oooh.
Well maybe that's why it also counts as yourbest purchase, because of the investment you
had to do to actually make it.
FA (28:45):
Absolutely, it was definitely a big investment.
OF (28:49):
Wow.
Next question, what is your favourite WeChatsticker?
FA (28:55):
I’ll send you my monkey stickers.
OF (28:58):
OK.
Ah yes.
FA (29:00):
The monkey is my character.
You know, I'm the clown, I'm the goofball,I'm the guy that does anything.
I came across these stickers, and every oneof them has a different point of my perspective.
OF (29:14):
I can see you doing all of these things in real life.
It's not much difference to the real Frank.
I actually haven't seen that set, they lookpretty fun.
OK, next question.
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV.
FA (29:29):
That’s limited by the availability of the songs here.
OF (29:33):
Mm-Hmm.
FA (29:34):
Since I come from a country music background.
But Alan Jackson, ‘Good Time’.
It’s pretty reliable that I can find thatat almost any KTV.
OF (29:45):
Is one of those sad country songs, where you've lost your wife or your dog has run
away, and…
FA (29:51):
No, ‘Good Time’, of course, is about partying and having a good time, being with
friends and barbecues and things like that.
OF (29:57):
Very nice.
And finally, and this question comes fromJustPod: Who or what is your biggest source
of inspiration in China?
FA (30:06):
Being a stuntman, Jackie Chan has been a huge inspiration.
What he has accomplished here - you know,I think he's 67 years old, and started, as
I did, when he was a young boy - is just atrue inspiration.
My first inspiration in America is, of course,my teacher Kahana.
OF (30:27):
Yeah.
FA (30:28):
He’s 93 years old, and he still performs in movies, and runs his stunt school.
OF (30:33):
Oh wow.
FA (30:34):
Both of their accomplishments, and the drive to never give up.
I have both their pictures on my wall, andwhen I'm not feeling good in the morning,
and I've gotta get up and do something, there’snothing more inspirational than to look up
at someone who far surpasses my years, andstill gets up every morning and goes out and
(30:55):
works his ass off.
OF (30:57):
Wow.
You are someone who obviously puts your bodythrough a lot, and you still maintain an active
lifestyle, and obviously a very good senseof humour.
So it's really great to hear that last answer.
And, of course, to hear your whole story.
Thank you so much for your time today, Frank.
FA (31:14):
Well, thank you.
It's been an honour to be a guests on yourshow.
And I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
OF (31:20):
Me too.
Tell me, out of everyone you know in China,who would you recommend that I interview for
the next season of Mosaic of China?
FA (31:27):
A friend of mine, Justin Muller, he's an international director of a studio down
in 宁波 [Níngbō].
He also worked closely with several differentmovie studios throughout the country.
And I believe he would be a perfect candidatefor this.
OF (31:44):
Great, I really appreciate that, I look forward to meeting with Justin.
Thank you so much again for your time Frank.
FA (31:50):
Well thank you, I appreciate it.
[Outro]OF: It’s been a good few months since Frank
and I did that recording, and we have stillnot been able to meet up face to face.
But I promise it will happen!
That may or may not end up being in 天津[Tiānjīn], because these days Frank is actually
doing more work in 大连 [Dàlián], at atheme park there called Discovery Kingdom.
(32:15):
I’m sure he’s still adding to his collectionof ‘Frank’s tall tales’, so I’m already
looking forward to recording a catch-up withhim next season.
As you can imagine, there were many many morestories that we couldn’t quite fit into
the time limit of the episode.
So as always there’s a longer version ofthis interview available on the PREMIUM version,
(32:38):
on Patreon or Apple Podcasts Subscriptionsinternationally, or on 爱发电 [Àifādiàn]
in China.
Just search for mosaicofchina on those platforms.
Here are some clips: [Clip 1] (32:48):
undefined
FA (32:49):
I guess the most famous one that I worked on was Rain Man, with Dustin Hoffman and Tom
Cruise.
OF (32:56):
Oh wow.
[Clip 2]FA: I’ve been told my accent is kind of
screwed up.
[Clip 3]FA: They can make it look like the guy falls
for three seconds, versus the one second thathe actually fell.
[Clip 4]FA: We have 19 performers for each show.
[Clip 5]FA: That's the redneck in me.
[Clip 6]FA: We have three kung fu guys who actually
(33:17):
studied at the 少林 [Shàolín] Temple.
[Clip 7]FA: Modifying the electronics, installing
special braking systems, it's very intense.
[Clip 8]FA: Hustling the studios, we used to climb
fences dressed up as Pizza Hut delivery guyscarrying pizza boxes and a change of clothes.
[Clip 9]FA: I not only returned the following season,
(33:37):
you know, I haven't left since.
[Clip 10]FA: I went to a waterfall…
Did you jump off it?
FA (33:43):
No, the puddle wasn't big enough.
[End of Audio Clips]
OF (33:48):
Be sure to go to the Mosaic of China website or social media, to see all the images associated
with today’s episode.
And yes, that includes some photos of Frankwith Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman from the
set of Rain Man.
Even though that story only appeared in thePREMIUM version of the show, you can’t blame
(34:10):
me for including those online now, can you?
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell.
I have a couple of catch-ups with previousguests from the show coming up now after the
music, and they represent the perfect accompanimentsto Frank’s episode.
The first is with Murray King from the ShanghaiDisney Resort, who first appeared in Season
(34:34):
02 Episode 29; followed by a quick chat withEmily Madge from Sea World, who first appeared
in Season 01 Episode 14.
Please enjoy listening to those, and I’llsee you back here next time.
[Catch-Up Interview 1]OF: Hey Murray!
MK (34:56):
Aha!
OF (34:58):
We are doing this electronically rather than face-to-face because I'm on the 浦西
[Pǔxī] side of Shanghai, and you're on the浦东 [Pǔdōng] side of Shanghai.
We always joke about how there's two differentsides of Shanghai, but recently there were
some times where you really couldn't evengo from one side to the other, right?
MK (35:15):
Well, I think a lot of people in the city have learned a lot more about the different
layers of jurisdictional governments.
Your room, or your home, or your community,or your township, or your district.
But it's certainly nice to be able to travel.
OF (35:30):
It's nice to see you in person.
I have bumped into you from time to time sinceour original recording.
And I think the last time that I saw you inperson was at one of the final get-togethers
at M on the Bund, which you had previouslynominated as your favourite place to eat or
drink or hang out in Shanghai.
MK (35:46):
That's right.
Isn't it amazing how life comes full circle.
Which is too bad.
OF (35:51):
Yeah.
It just goes to show that things are a-changing.
But you've been around for over 20 years - Ican't even remember how many years now - so
you've seen these cycles go up and down.
There's always someone who says “Oh, it'snot like it used to be” or “You should
have been here before X and Y.”
These cycles are always there.
(36:11):
But I guess they're very vivid right now.
You know, everyone in China will be the oneswho future foreigners in China will roll their
eyes at.
MK (36:18):
I remember when I was working at the Canadian Consulate General in Shanghai in the early
2000s.
We had quite a few visitors actually who werequite advanced in age, who had lived in Shanghai
in the 1930s.
I guess one day maybe I'll be like them, I'llbe visiting again in the future and reminiscing
about our own collective experience of Shanghai.
OF (36:37):
Well just to jump in and interrupt you, for people who did not hear your original
episode in Season 02, you are in charge ofPublic Affairs and Communications at Disney,
at the Disney Resort here in Shanghai.
And Disney has become a bellwether for what'shappening in Shanghai, whether you like it
or not.
You know, when the resort gets shut, thatmakes world news; when the resort reopens,
(36:59):
that makes world news.
In fact, anything vaguely unusual happening- or even the faintest whiff of something
unusual happening - that makes news.
So I can really see how you're in the nexusof things.
MK (37:11):
Yes.
But if we're the bellwether, I hope that theprognosis is looking a little bit more optimistic.
Being a symbol of optimism and hope; bringingjoy and magic into people's lives; creating
memories with friends and family that lasta lifetime; being a showcase of responsibility.
OF (37:26):
Right.
MK (37:27):
So even when I go back to May of 2020 when we reopened, we were the first major
global tourism destination worldwide to reopen,and maybe be a little bit of a beacon of light
to people all around the world who were indifferent stages of the pandemic.
OF (37:41):
Yes.
MK (37:46):
I have to say, your end of Season 02 Mosaic of China party was probably one of the social
highlights of the last few years in Shanghai.
What a wonderful collection of people.
Honestly, it was great to see you, great tosee all of your different guests, and to celebrate
together.
OF (38:06):
Well, I am very flattered.
I don't know what to do when people complimentme, but I will accept it graciously.
MK (38:12):
You should.
Honestly.
Honestly, you brought the community togetherin a way that I hadn't seen in 24 years.
OF (38:17):
Oh, that's so nice to hear.
Well then, thank you for that.
And thank you for the encouragement, thankyou for your participation, and I hope to
continue to stay in touch with you Murray.
MK (38:26):
My pleasure Oscar.
[Catch-Up Interview 2]EM: Hello?
OF (38:30):
Hello!
EM (38:31):
Hi!
OF (38:32):
You look amazing.
EM (38:35):
Thank you!
Do I?
It's the glow, you know.
OF (38:40):
What do you mean ‘glow’?
EM (38:42):
So my new news is that I'm pregnant.
OF (38:46):
I knew it, as soon as you said that.
How funny.
Congratulations.
EM (38:53):
Thank you.
OF (38:54):
It’s making me go back to our original recording.
For those who didn't listen, Emily was atthat time working for Sea Life in Shanghai.
As part of our conversation, I was shouting“Fish Fact!”
at you, and you were coming up with randomfish facts.
But all of them had to do with either sexor childbirth.
And now I'm thinking “All right, well what'syour story this time?”
EM (39:19):
So I moved to Thailand - based in Sea Life Bangkok for two and a half years now
- had a great time, last year met my now partner,and yeah recently found out we're expecting
a little girl.
OF (39:36):
I'm very happy for you.
EM (39:38):
Thank you.
OF (39:39):
At the same time, I'm quite sad because it means that there's less and less likelihood
that I'm ever going to have the chance toappear on your doorstep, and crash on your
couch.
EM (39:47):
That’s true.
OF (39:48):
Couldn’t you have waited?
EM (39:49):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't think of you when I was thinking about it.
OF (39:53):
Exactly, it’s so selfish.
EM (39:54):
Unless you want to come to Copenhagen.
So I am moving to Copenhagen in a few weeks.
OF (40:02):
Oh my word!
EM (40:03):
Yeah.
So it's all change again.
My partner's Danish, so we're going to begoing back to Denmark for the duration of
my maternity leave, and have the baby there.
So I've got to get used to the cold weatheragain.
OF (40:17):
Well, well.
It's so funny, because of course you are oneof the people from Season 01, and by the time
it was Season 02 you were in a different country,and then now that it's Season 03 it's gonna
be a third country.
Believe it or not, you're not the only onein that position, it’s so crazy.
EM (40:34):
Really?
Yeah.
Obviously I was in Shanghai, which is wherewe met.
And I have two Sea Life centres in China thatI was hoping I could go and visit before I
go on maternity leave.
But unfortunately, it'll have to be when Icome back now.
So we'll have to meet up for a beer when I'mback.
OF (40:52):
Yes.
Well what we talked a lot about in our originalepisode was, of course, how you had spent
an entire year organising the paperwork totransport two beluga whales from Shanghai
to their ‘forever home’ in Iceland.
What is the update this time?
And have you been to Europe to actually seethem in person at this point?
EM (41:10):
So the whales are doing fantastically, making a lot of progress.
We've got a great team there who are workingon a lot of their training behaviours.
They're now learning to go out into the bay,and being recalled back for things like bad
weather.
It's still a big focus for Sea Life, there'sstill a lot of things we need to do, and a
(41:33):
lot of progress to make, but we're headingin the right direction.
And the whales are loving their new life,making lots of friends with the other sea
creatures that they're finding, discoveringthe sea anemones and the starfish and things
like that that they never encountered in captivity.
So yeah, very humbling.
And I didn't manage to get over to Iceland,we were planning on going last Christmas to
(41:58):
go and see the whales, but bad weather stoppedit.
There was a lot of work that went into that- which we discussed on the podcast - and
it'd be really nice to actually see the finalpart.
So I'm really looking forward to being ableto do that.
OF (42:09):
Yes.
There are just a few loose ends hanging aroundthe world for many people.
EM (42:13):
Yeah.
OF (42:14):
And we haven't quite gotten around to tying them off, right?
EM (42:16):
Yeah, correct, correct.
But we all will, I'm sure.
OF (42:20):
Yeah.
This is the last time that I will speak toyou in Bangkok.
And I'm also thinking about our original episode,about the things that you would miss when
you left Shanghai.
Things like the food, I think hotpot was oneof the things that you mentioned.
EM (42:33):
Yes.
OF (42:34):
What about now that you're leaving Bangkok, and leaving Asia, at least for the time being?
Do you know what you're gonna miss the mostand miss the least this time around?
EM (42:40):
Definitely the food, the food is fantastic in Thailand, as everyone knows.
And the prices.
And the beaches and the weather are just paradisehere.
OF (42:53):
Well, good luck with everything; good luck with the maternity leave; good luck with
Denmark.
Thank you very much for giving me a few minutesof your time, and I hope that we will continue
to keep in touch as part of this project,but also personally as well.
EM (43:05):
Definitely.
Thank you for having me, it was great to catchup.
[Trailer]FA: And I yelled off the perch “Hey mom
I’m up here!”
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
This is a project which has been designedto showcase a wide array of unique voices,
(00:24):
and today’s episode is no exception.
Speaking to Frank Abel immediately transportedme to an entirely different world, and I’m
excited for you to experience the same thing.
So let me keep today’s intro short, here’smy conversation with Frank.
[Part 1]OF: Hello there Frank.
FA (00:44):
Hello.
OF (00:45):
I should say straight away that we are doing this recording remotely.
I should have been up there with you, butwe'll talk about why that wasn't possible.
Before we start, where actually are you inChina right now?
FA (00:58):
I'm in the 濱海 [Bīnhǎi] New Area in 天津 [Tiānjīn].
OF (01:02):
天津 [Tiānjīn], exactly.
I was supposed to be up there in 天津 [Tiānjīn]a few months ago now.
I had been on a skiing trip quite nearby in吉林 [Jílín].
And I was very clever to say “OK, I'm goingto be in 吉林 [Jílín], so I will scoot
down to 天津 [Tiānjīn] and we can do ourrecording.”
And of course, that was exactly when thingsstarted to lock down in 2022 here in China.
(01:25):
I can't travel, so unfortunately, this’llhave to do.
FA (01:29):
Well, we've tried very hard to get together.
And our schedules have a little bit to dowith it.
But I think the virus is the biggest culprit.
OF (01:38):
Yes.
But it's still very nice to see your faceover video anyway.
And maybe you should, in one sentence, justexplain what it is that you do up there in
天津 [Tiānjīn].
FA (01:50):
In America, I would say I'm a stunt man.
But sometimes I tell Chinese people “I'ma stunt man” and they look at me like they're
real confused as to what I do.
It doesn't really translate well.
The most recognised title of what I do is'action actor’ to the Chinese.
Sometimes I'll even say “Like Jackie Chan”,then they kind of understand.
(02:12):
But ‘action actor’, and then I also buildvehicles for stunts: boats, cars, motorcycles,
different action vehicles.
OF (02:22):
Well, we are going to go into all of that.
But before we do, the first question I askeveryone at the beginning of this podcast
is (02:30):
What is the object that you have prepared that in some way represents your life here
in China?
FA (02:37):
It’s a little model of an aircraft carrier.
OF (02:40):
Oh.
FA (02:41):
And it represents the aircraft carrier at the 濱海 [Bīnhǎi] Theme Park, which
is an aircraft carrier theme park here in天津 [Tiānjīn].
It's where I've spent the last ten years doingmost of my work, both building vehicles as
well as performing stunts.
They have a car stunt show and a water stuntshow.
OF (03:05):
Perfect.
And it's also making me doubly annoyed thatI can't be up there to go to the actual stunt
show.
That was one of the reasons I really wantedto be in 天津 [Tiānjīn], so I hope that
there will be a chance for me to come up atsome point in the future.
Can you give me a quick rundown as to whatthat place is?
It sounds quite bizarre to have a theme parkbased on an aircraft carrier.
FA (03:26):
Well, the aircraft carrier is actually the backdrop of our stunt show.
So you couldn't ask for a better stage.
And the theme of the show is, the piratesare trying to take over the aircraft carrier.
The theme park has not only got the aircraftcarrier, but recently they brought in a submarine
(03:47):
and some other ships into the lake area.
They have tanks, they have fighter jets, aswell as this massive retired Russian aircraft
carrier.
So it's geared more towards Russian history.
They also have a replica of an old streetin Russia as well.
(04:09):
Prior to the virus, there was over a millionpeople a year who came to the park.
OF (04:13):
Wow.
It sounds like you are in some kind of geopoliticalnexus there.
FA (04:18):
You know, we have people from all over the world.
We have no discussion of politics, just havinga good time enjoying ourselves.
OF (04:28):
Well, why don't we start straight into what it is that you do, day-in day-out at
the theme park?
FA (04:35):
Normally when I get there, my first priority is to make sure all the vehicles are prepared
for the show, operational and also safe.
After that, then I assist with the stunt teamto make sure all of their preparations are
also safe.
And in addition to the vehicles, I also amresponsible for the rigging of each show.
(04:58):
So all of your ropes have to be tied right,and there are daily checks in preparation
for each one of those as well.
And then during the show, we have backup vehiclesfor each one of the vehicles in the show.
You know, we're doing things that these thingsare not made to do.
We're jumping boats, we're submerging jetskis, we're driving cars on two wheels, crashing
(05:22):
motorcycles through fire.
And I've done my best to redesign them, tohold up against these things.
But anything can go wrong.
'The show must go on’, as the old sayinggoes.
So we have backup vehicles, we can swap thevehicles out, keep the show moving at a steady
pace.
There are also fire burns going on, there’sacrobatics, there are five people on stage
(05:48):
fighting at the same time, there are peoplejumping off the ship, there are machine gun
battles going on.
You know, I've seen this show for ten years,I know where to look.
And I can sit in the audience and I cannotview everything that's going on at the same
time.
There's always something to see.
OF (06:07):
Tell me, at what stage in the creation of that show did you first come in?
FA (06:12):
I was actually asked to come over in 2012.
The show had been in operation for a coupleyears.
They were having trouble with one of the boats,and they found me and asked me if I would
come over and design a new boat.
We took one of the old boats, and then completelyreconfigured it so it could be more dependable.
(06:35):
We were supposed to build two of them, butit works so well, we ended up only building
one of them.
And the thing, still to this day, is usedin the shows.
I also am able to perform in the show.
I don't take on any of the larger roles inthe show, because of my responsibility with
the vehicles and the rigging.
(06:57):
But I've been able to play several differentroles in the show.
One has a high dive, one has a fire burn,some comedy shows that we do…
OF (07:06):
Is it normal for a stuntman to also be this expert in vehicles?
FA (07:10):
I think my situation evolved with my surroundings, you know you’re a product of your environment.
But it is very common for a stuntman to havemany other occupations.
The stunt man is like an actor, and the workis few and far between, especially when all
you're doing is movies.
So you've got other occupations that you pursuein between.
(07:35):
You're basically like a football player thathas to stay in condition and train for the
next job, as well as in between each job tryingto support your family and keep income coming.
But also you’re your own booking agent,constantly hustling to try to find the next
job as well.
I couldn't even list all the different jobsthat I've had in between my stunt jobs.
OF (07:59):
Yes.
In which case, a theme park where it's predictableincome, is that the ultimate gig for a stuntman?
FA (08:07):
Actually, throughout the stunt industry, it's kind of looked down upon.
OF (08:12):
Oh.
FA (08:13):
Back in the 80s, if you worked at a live stunt show, they wouldn't even consider you
for a movie.
OF (08:20):
Huh.
FA (08:21):
Nowadays, it's the training ground for the movie industry.
Because they have the training, they knowthe safety aspects, and things like that.
And it's much more reliable than finding theguy on Facebook looking for a stunt job that
has been on a trampoline three times in hislife.
OF (08:39):
Since we're now talking about stunts in the movies versus stunts in live shows, what
actually is the difference between the two?
FA (08:45):
The stunts in the live shows, these are performed sometimes ten times a day.
So they really have to be analysed, and blocked,and coordinated, to eliminate any risk of
someone getting hurt.
We do a lot of rehearsals and practising.
All the performers are trained for each particularstunt over and over again.
(09:11):
Whereas in a movie, they want to get it onfilm.
So if you're lucky, you get it done one time.
Normally there'll be, of course, some preparingfor the stunt.
You know, all the safety aspects are stillthere.
But once it's performed, it's over, it's donewith.
They get it on film, it's history.
(09:33):
So stunts in the live shows are more dialledback, I want to say.
OF (09:39):
Right.
And we're talking about films versus themeparks through the lens of the U.S. Why don't
we then come back to China?
Have you worked in both of these areas inChina, or have you only been working at the
park?
FA (09:52):
Actually, I've been blessed to be able to work some film work here.
A friend of mine asked me to go help withthe Jackie Chan film, Kung Fu Yoga.
OF (10:02):
Oh right.
FA (10:03):
I got to work in conjunction with Jackie Chan, so it was really cool.
I've also been asked to do some commercialsand some advertisements and things like that,
doing bit-part acting, doing stunts, consulting,things like that for the movie industry.
OF (10:19):
And so what are the differences between your experiences in the film industry back
in the States, versus what you've experiencedhere?
FA (10:27):
On set, it's at the directors pace.
You know, the director always determines what'sgoing on, how fast.
So actually, on set is very similar to theStates, from my experiences.
Off set is a completely different world.
The industry in China is similar to the industryin America 20-30 years ago.
(10:53):
Before very strict union rules, very strictcontracts, any structure was brought about.
For example, the agents.
In America, when you want to sign with anagent, you choose one agent, you sign with
that agent, and you are not allowed to signwith any other agent.
OF (11:13):
Right.
FA (11:14):
So you're very limited as to your representation.
In China, on my WeChat, I've probably gotover 200 agents.
OF (11:24):
Oh my god.
FA (11:25):
And it's like the cow that fell into the Amazon River, and the piranha are out.
OF (11:32):
Oh.
FA (11:33):
When there's a film, the production company will contact a bunch of agents, and cut them
loose.
You know, sometimes I'll get called from fouror five different agents on the same production.
And even sometimes with different price ranges.
In America, they would never work again.
(11:53):
In China, this is standard.
You can't really point fingers at this.
Because one, the production has to get thejob done.
Of course, they're going to call all the agentsthey can, to find those resources.
Now the agents, they have to make money, andthey're gonna hire the cheapest person that
(12:14):
they can.
OF (12:15):
Right.
FA (12:16):
They're all making a living.
It's just the business.
OF (12:19):
Yeah.
FA (12:20):
And in America, it's the same thing, there’s just more control and more restrictions.
OF (12:25):
Yes.
FA (12:26):
As far as pay rate, in the States there's also what they call ‘adjustment fees’.
You get a daily rate for showing up to theset, and that includes your basic stunts.
If you're going to do something elaborate- as far as a high fall, a fire burn, they
want to blow you up - then there's a fee ontop of what you're paid for the day.
(12:50):
And that is paid each time that you performthe stunt.
So, say they do five takes on the stunt, theymay end up paying you five times the adjustment
fee, plus your daily rate…
OF (13:04):
Oh.
FA …In order to perform a stunt.
But hang on then, let me interrupt you there.
Because then, doesn't that incentivise thestunt man to make mistakes the first four
times?
FA (13:15):
Not so much.
You take four takes, you're not coming backnext week.
OF (13:20):
Yes.
FA (13:21):
If you get it done in one take, the director’s happy, he's gonna invite you back.
In China, when you negotiate your daily rate,you pretty much are locked in to that fee
for anything that you do.
OF (13:37):
A director can take multiple, multiple, multiple takes with no extra cost, right?
So they might put the stunt man through thewringer, and the stunt man would just get
paid the same.
FA (13:46):
Oh yeah.
And I worked on a film here, and we did fiverehearsals until the director was happy with
the action, and nothing was even filmed yet.
And then they would film it, and everybodywent through the same action.
And then they would move one camera, and gothrough the whole action again.
And then move one camera, and do the wholeaction again.
(14:11):
Because those cameras are a huge cost.
In America, they'll have seven or ten camerason set, and do it once.
Versus here, you know, you have the directorin a tent, nobody sees him, he has an imagination
of what he wants to see, and if he doesn'tsee it we're doing it again.
OF (14:32):
Gosh, yeah.
And of course, in both cases, it's just aboutbudget.
But I can see how in the States - with actorsbeing more expensive - then you cut costs
on using the actors.
Here in China, if the cameras are more expensive,you just have one and make the actors do it
again and again.
I can see exactly how it works.
FA (14:50):
Right.
OF (14:51):
Well, how the hell did you become a stunt man in the first place?
FA (14:54):
I was born.
I was born with no fear.
What really got me into stunts was, I startedspringboard diving when I was eight years
old.
OF (15:08):
Aha.
FA (15:09):
And, you know, my diving coach would ask me “Can you do a double flip?”
And I would say “I don't know, but I'lltry.”
OF (15:14):
Wow.
FA (15:15):
And I would go up and do it until I got it right.
And if I crashed, if I got hurt, I didn'tcare, I wanted to get it finished.
That switch that tells you “This is crazy,don’t do it" is not in my thought process.
It's like “Oh, this is cool, I wanna doit.”
OF (15:33):
Interesting.
FA (15:34):
And I took a family vacation to Hawaii.
And we went to this place called Waimea Falls,and there's a waterfall that falls over about
45 feet.
And next to it is a perch about 65 feet high,which is 90 metres.
I was 14 years old at the time (15:52):
1978.
And I was watching the little native boysfrom Hawaii jump off this perch into the water.
And it was all brown water, you couldn't seewhat you were jumping into.
And I talked my parents into allowing me toclimb the waterfalls, that was the first obstacle.
(16:12):
But my mom said “Well as long as you gofrom this side, it's only about 40 feet, I'll
take a picture.”
And I said “OK well I'll go on up.”
Well I climbed the 45 foot side, and I crossedthe stream, and I proceeded to climb up to
the 65/70 foot perch.
OF (16:27):
I knew you would say that, yeah.
FA (16:30):
And I yelled off the perch “Hey mom, I'm up here!”
And jumped off the perch.
The adrenaline rush was like an addictionto a drug.
It's like a tingling sensation throughoutyour whole body.
OF (16:44):
So then, from that experience, did you already know that you wanted to gear yourself
up for this career?
Or did it happen more by chance later on inlife?
FA (16:53):
No, actually that was the end of it.
When I was 14, I went back to diving, youknow, I did my competition diving.
And when I was 16 years old, I was invitedto go to Nationals.
I vividly remember a conversation with mymother.
She said “You need to choose, continue andgo to the Olympics, or do you want to do this
(17:15):
stunt stuff?
Either way, I'll support you.
But you need to make a decision, pursue it,and never give it up.”
I remember saying “Well mom, diving, I goto the Olympics - maybe two Olympics - and
then I'm a diving coach for the rest of mylife.
OF (17:32):
Yeah.
FA (17:33):
And stunts, I really love it, and it's something I want to do the rest of my life.
And she did her research prior to this conversation,and said “Well I know of a stunt school
you can go to, Kahana Stunt School.
I'll pay for the school, but you're on yourown after that.”
I've got children that are 20 and 25 yearsold - and a daughter here in China who’s
(17:57):
six now - and I think my mom was out of hermind sending me to Hollywood to be a stuntman
when I was 16 years old.
OF (18:08):
Wow.
FA (18:09):
But I stuck to it.
And here I am, 42 years later, still doingit.
OF (18:14):
Yeah.
You mentioned your family.
What does this kind of work do to your relationships,with your family, with your friends?
FA (18:22):
It absolutely destroys all relationships.
You know, in one aspect it develops relationships,because of course, everybody wants to meet
the unknown stunt man.
But as far as true relationships - your friends,your family - you don't have much time.
(18:42):
You've got a production schedule, you’retravelling.
Say, my children in the States, I won't sayI neglected them, I've provided for them,
I've always loved them.
But I haven't always been there because I'mon set.
It's a love hate relationship.
OF (18:57):
Yeah.
And I'm surprised that you talk about it justin terms of timing.
Because for me, I would also imagine thisperson who likes to take risks.
Doesn’t that lend itself to a certain kindof thinking?
FA (19:11):
Well, that's kind of a prerequisite for my relationships.
I'm crazy, I jump off cliffs, I set myselfon fire, crash cars.
If this is going to worry you, I don't wantto have anything to do with you.
OF (19:25):
Yeah.
FA (19:26):
As far as my family, they accepted it fifty years ago, when I was seven.
OF (19:30):
Yes.
FA (19:31):
You know, my kids, they didn't really know what I was doing until later in life.
But, you know, they all know me.
And they know that this is my passion.
They know they cannot talk me out of it.
If they tell me “This is crazy, you shouldn'tdo this”, then I'm going to do it even more.
OF (19:48):
What was the biggest accident or incident that you've been involved in?
FA (19:51):
In 42 years of doing stunts, I've had one injury that was worth speaking of.
When I was in training, I went through mybeginning course of stunt school.
And during the course, I did a fire stuntfor my pictures to do my résumé.
And I was burned horrifically.
(20:12):
And actually, my brother and my father werepresent at the filming of the stunt.
That was probably the most tragic and actuallyonly time I was injured.
OF (20:25):
Yeah.
And then it's just a testament to your professionalismthat you never did that ever again, I suppose.
I mean, is there some kind of bravado?
You know, you meet up with other stunt peoplein bars, and compare your accidents?
Or actually, is an accident a symbol of howyou're not good at your job?
FA (20:43):
Well yeah, we do compare scars and wounds.
And, you know, I call them ‘Frank's talltales’.
You know, experiences that we've had throughoutour lives.
I was trained by Kahana, a very prominentstunt man in America.
And he told me “There's a stunt man, andthere's a daredevil.”
OF (21:04):
Ah.
FA (21:05):
A stunt man performs a scientific approach, to create an illusion of a dangerous feat.
A daredevil performs a dangerous feat.
OF (21:17):
Mmm.
FA (21:18):
And the difference is that the stunt man walks away without injury.
You know, you got your Evel Knievel who jumps27 buses, and crashes, brakes 17 bones, but
still made $200,000 performing his ‘stunt’.
Well, he's a daredevil.
The guy that spends time with the choreographers,the stunt coordinator, and the scientists,
(21:44):
to make sure that he can perform the stuntwith no risk to getting hurt, and performs
it, films it, and presents that to the worldfor entertainment, that’s a stunt man.
OF (21:56):
Well said.
Well, thank you so much Frank.
I am of course, neither of those.
So for someone like me, it is really fascinatingto talk to you.
Not just about your risk appetite, but alsothe world that you live in, and the skills
that you must bring to the table each andevery day.
I really appreciate you sharing that.
FA (22:16):
Well, thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
OF (22:18):
And now we move on to Part 2.
[Part 2]OF: OK, are you ready?
We're gonna do the 10 questions…
FA (22:27):
Oh yeah!
I’ve been dying to do this!
OF (22:30):
Good!
Let's jump straight in.
The first question, which comes from ShanghaiDaily: What is your favourite China-related
fact?
FA (22:40):
The fact that China has been here so long.
I went to work on a project in Taishan, andit was at a theme park.
And I was walking through this tunnel thathad a 3D animation, and I'm asking “What
is this all about?”
And he says “Well, this explains the 6,000years of history of Taishan."
(23:00):
And I'm like "So this city has been here for6,000 years?”
“Well yeah!”
And the fact that China has been in existence- keeping records in history - for thousands
and thousands of years, it's just phenomenal.
OF (23:15):
Well said.
Next question, which comes from Rosetta Stone: Do you have a favourite word or phrase in (23:18):
undefined
Chinese?
FA (23:23):
一笑解千愁 [Yīxiào jiě qiān chóu].
My Chinese pronunciation sucks so…
The meaning is "A smile that solves a thousandworries.”
OF (23:35):
一笑解千愁 [Yīxiào jiě qiān chóu].
Yes.
FA (23:38):
Even in English, one of my favourite sayings is “Keep smiling and no-one knows what you're
up to.”
You know, whether you're depressed - you’vegot family problems, no matter what is going
on in your life - if you're smiling, it actuallyworks.
You know, being happy and trying to smile,it does solve a thousand worries.
OF (23:59):
Yes.
FA (24:00):
Besides “你好美女 [nǐ hǎo měinǚ], that's my favourite.
OF (24:04):
Oh dear.
Next question - and this one comes from nakedRetreats - what is your favourite destination
within China?
FA (24:13):
西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà].
OF (24:14):
Oh nice.
FA (24:16):
I was invited to go do a show in 西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà].
And it's just totally jungle, and more jungle.
OF (24:24):
Yeah FA
know, just another world compared to the concretejungle that I've spent most of my life in
China in.
Yes.
Of course, they're on opposite sides of thecountry, with 天津 [Tiānjīn] up in the
Northeast, and 西双版纳 [Xīshuāngbǎnnà]down in the southwest.
Let's move on.
Question 4, if you left China, what wouldyou miss the most, and what would you miss
(24:45):
the least?
FA (24:46):
Missing the most is relationships.
Whether I worked with them, or met them atthe store - the guy that runs the little store
where I buy my water bottles from - the relationshipsis what it's all about here in China.
OF (25:00):
Mmm.
FA (25:01):
And I think that's what I'll miss the most.
OF (25:03):
Got it.
And how about the least?
FA (25:05):
The horns.
OF (25:06):
Oh.
FA (25:08):
The car horns!
It's a courtesy to blow your horn.
If someone's in your way, you blow your hornjust to let them know you're there, because
it's a polite thing to do.
OF (25:18):
Yeah.
FA (25:19):
And that's culture.
But I look forward to the day of being homeand not hearing the car horns outside.
OF (25:26):
Next question, is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
FA (25:32):
My air conditioning is broken in my house.
And in America, if you call the air conditionerguy, he wouldn't leave until it was fixed.
And he would look for the opportunity to makeas much money as he could, resolving your
problem.
OF (25:51):
Mm-hm.
FA (25:52):
The guy who came the other day, he shows up on a moped, he comes in and he says “Well,
what air conditioner's not working?”
I said “The one in the bedroom.”
And he goes over and looks at it.
And he grabbed the remote control and turnedit on, and he says “OK, yeah, it doesn't
work.
I'll be back tomorrow with my tools.”
OF (26:10):
Oh!
FA (26:12):
Then next day, he comes back.
And he brought his tools.
So he took it apart, and he says “I needa part.
It's gonna be two or three days.”
So he came back two or three days later.
And he puts it together.
And he says “We'll try this.
If it works, we'll be OK.
If not, I'll be back in a couple of days.”
OF (26:34):
OK I can relate to the story now.
Because I do have this handyman who came threetimes to fix one small problem with a sink.
And firstly, there was a leak.
And then secondly, he put the tubes in thewrong way, so hot was cold and cold was hot.
I mean, there was a different issue each time.
I think what you're talking about is thishandyman ‘师傅 Shīfù’ culture.
(26:57):
He’s playing the odds, because out of allthe call-outs he has, there might be three
or four that he can do just by himself, justtwiddling this knob, twiddling that knob.
Maybe that's what's happening.
FA (27:07):
Yeah, he's scheduled his day to analyse three jobs, and to complete two or three.
OF (27:13):
Yeah.
It reminds me of the story about the directoron the set.
You know, you're gonna do what makes you themost money at the least cost.
Boom.
FA (27:22):
Yes, yes.
Absolutely.
OF (27:24):
OK next question, which comes from SmartShanghai: Where is your favourite place to go out, to
eat or drink or just hang out?
FA (27:31):
There is a pub called Jacky’s that resides right across the street from me.
I've been going there since the first nightthat I arrived in China.
They've been called me ‘Frank’ since theday I walked in.
The waitstaff and the owners, they’re alljust very professional, very friendly.
OF (27:50):
Very nice.
It reminds me of Norm from Cheers, right?
You walk in there, and everyone says “Frank!”
FA (27:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
OF (27:58):
Excellent.
Next question.
What is the best or worst purchase you'vemade in China?
FA (28:03):
Best purchase I made is, I want to say, my motorcycle.
I struggled between a Harley-Davidson anda Chinese motorcycle.
But I found a nice Chinese replica at 10%of the price of a Harley-Davidson.
Being a stunt man, and with my background,I enjoy motorcycles.
That's my escape.
OF (28:24):
How did I know that you would have a motorcycle?
FA (28:27):
Of course.
Now getting the licence - the two years ittook to get my motorcycle licence, and all
the **** that went into being able to drivethat motorcycle - was not the best experience.
OF (28:38):
Oooh.
Well maybe that's why it also counts as yourbest purchase, because of the investment you
had to do to actually make it.
FA (28:45):
Absolutely, it was definitely a big investment.
OF (28:49):
Wow.
Next question, what is your favourite WeChatsticker?
FA (28:55):
I’ll send you my monkey stickers.
OF (28:58):
OK.
Ah yes.
FA (29:00):
The monkey is my character.
You know, I'm the clown, I'm the goofball,I'm the guy that does anything.
I came across these stickers, and every oneof them has a different point of my perspective.
OF (29:14):
I can see you doing all of these things in real life.
It's not much difference to the real Frank.
I actually haven't seen that set, they lookpretty fun.
OK, next question.
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV.
FA (29:29):
That’s limited by the availability of the songs here.
OF (29:33):
Mm-Hmm.
FA (29:34):
Since I come from a country music background.
But Alan Jackson, ‘Good Time’.
It’s pretty reliable that I can find thatat almost any KTV.
OF (29:45):
Is one of those sad country songs, where you've lost your wife or your dog has run
away, and…
FA (29:51):
No, ‘Good Time’, of course, is about partying and having a good time, being with
friends and barbecues and things like that.
OF (29:57):
Very nice.
And finally, and this question comes fromJustPod: Who or what is your biggest source
of inspiration in China?
FA (30:06):
Being a stuntman, Jackie Chan has been a huge inspiration.
What he has accomplished here - you know,I think he's 67 years old, and started, as
I did, when he was a young boy - is just atrue inspiration.
My first inspiration in America is, of course,my teacher Kahana.
OF (30:27):
Yeah.
FA (30:28):
He’s 93 years old, and he still performs in movies, and runs his stunt school.
OF (30:33):
Oh wow.
FA (30:34):
Both of their accomplishments, and the drive to never give up.
I have both their pictures on my wall, andwhen I'm not feeling good in the morning,
and I've gotta get up and do something, there’snothing more inspirational than to look up
at someone who far surpasses my years, andstill gets up every morning and goes out and
(30:55):
works his ass off.
OF (30:57):
Wow.
You are someone who obviously puts your bodythrough a lot, and you still maintain an active
lifestyle, and obviously a very good senseof humour.
So it's really great to hear that last answer.
And, of course, to hear your whole story.
Thank you so much for your time today, Frank.
FA (31:14):
Well, thank you.
It's been an honour to be a guests on yourshow.
And I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
OF (31:20):
Me too.
Tell me, out of everyone you know in China,who would you recommend that I interview for
the next season of Mosaic of China?
FA (31:27):
A friend of mine, Justin Muller, he's an international director of a studio down
in 宁波 [Níngbō].
He also worked closely with several differentmovie studios throughout the country.
And I believe he would be a perfect candidatefor this.
OF (31:44):
Great, I really appreciate that, I look forward to meeting with Justin.
Thank you so much again for your time Frank.
FA (31:50):
Well thank you, I appreciate it.
[Outro]OF: It’s been a good few months since Frank
and I did that recording, and we have stillnot been able to meet up face to face.
But I promise it will happen!
That may or may not end up being in 天津[Tiānjīn], because these days Frank is actually
doing more work in 大连 [Dàlián], at atheme park there called Discovery Kingdom.
(32:15):
I’m sure he’s still adding to his collectionof ‘Frank’s tall tales’, so I’m already
looking forward to recording a catch-up withhim next season.
As you can imagine, there were many many morestories that we couldn’t quite fit into
the time limit of the episode.
So as always there’s a longer version ofthis interview available on the PREMIUM version,
(32:38):
on Patreon or Apple Podcasts Subscriptionsinternationally, or on 爱发电 [Àifādiàn]
in China.
Just search for mosaicofchina on those platforms.
Here are some clips: [Clip 1] (32:48):
undefined
FA (32:49):
I guess the most famous one that I worked on was Rain Man, with Dustin Hoffman and Tom
Cruise.
OF (32:56):
Oh wow.
[Clip 2]FA: I’ve been told my accent is kind of
screwed up.
[Clip 3]FA: They can make it look like the guy falls
for three seconds, versus the one second thathe actually fell.
[Clip 4]FA: We have 19 performers for each show.
[Clip 5]FA: That's the redneck in me.
[Clip 6]FA: We have three kung fu guys who actually
(33:17):
studied at the 少林 [Shàolín] Temple.
[Clip 7]FA: Modifying the electronics, installing
special braking systems, it's very intense.
[Clip 8]FA: Hustling the studios, we used to climb
fences dressed up as Pizza Hut delivery guyscarrying pizza boxes and a change of clothes.
[Clip 9]FA: I not only returned the following season,
(33:37):
you know, I haven't left since.
[Clip 10]FA: I went to a waterfall…
Did you jump off it?
FA (33:43):
No, the puddle wasn't big enough.
[End of Audio Clips]
OF (33:48):
Be sure to go to the Mosaic of China website or social media, to see all the images associated
with today’s episode.
And yes, that includes some photos of Frankwith Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman from the
set of Rain Man.
Even though that story only appeared in thePREMIUM version of the show, you can’t blame
(34:10):
me for including those online now, can you?
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell.
I have a couple of catch-ups with previousguests from the show coming up now after the
music, and they represent the perfect accompanimentsto Frank’s episode.
The first is with Murray King from the ShanghaiDisney Resort, who first appeared in Season
(34:34):
02 Episode 29; followed by a quick chat withEmily Madge from Sea World, who first appeared
in Season 01 Episode 14.
Please enjoy listening to those, and I’llsee you back here next time.
[Catch-Up Interview 1]OF: Hey Murray!
MK (34:56):
Aha!
OF (34:58):
We are doing this electronically rather than face-to-face because I'm on the 浦西
[Pǔxī] side of Shanghai, and you're on the浦东 [Pǔdōng] side of Shanghai.
We always joke about how there's two differentsides of Shanghai, but recently there were
some times where you really couldn't evengo from one side to the other, right?
MK (35:15):
Well, I think a lot of people in the city have learned a lot more about the different
layers of jurisdictional governments.
Your room, or your home, or your community,or your township, or your district.
But it's certainly nice to be able to travel.
OF (35:30):
It's nice to see you in person.
I have bumped into you from time to time sinceour original recording.
And I think the last time that I saw you inperson was at one of the final get-togethers
at M on the Bund, which you had previouslynominated as your favourite place to eat or
drink or hang out in Shanghai.
MK (35:46):
That's right.
Isn't it amazing how life comes full circle.
Which is too bad.
OF (35:51):
Yeah.
It just goes to show that things are a-changing.
But you've been around for over 20 years - Ican't even remember how many years now - so
you've seen these cycles go up and down.
There's always someone who says “Oh, it'snot like it used to be” or “You should
have been here before X and Y.”
These cycles are always there.
(36:11):
But I guess they're very vivid right now.
You know, everyone in China will be the oneswho future foreigners in China will roll their
eyes at.
MK (36:18):
I remember when I was working at the Canadian Consulate General in Shanghai in the early
2000s.
We had quite a few visitors actually who werequite advanced in age, who had lived in Shanghai
in the 1930s.
I guess one day maybe I'll be like them, I'llbe visiting again in the future and reminiscing
about our own collective experience of Shanghai.
OF (36:37):
Well just to jump in and interrupt you, for people who did not hear your original
episode in Season 02, you are in charge ofPublic Affairs and Communications at Disney,
at the Disney Resort here in Shanghai.
And Disney has become a bellwether for what'shappening in Shanghai, whether you like it
or not.
You know, when the resort gets shut, thatmakes world news; when the resort reopens,
(36:59):
that makes world news.
In fact, anything vaguely unusual happening- or even the faintest whiff of something
unusual happening - that makes news.
So I can really see how you're in the nexusof things.
MK (37:11):
Yes.
But if we're the bellwether, I hope that theprognosis is looking a little bit more optimistic.
Being a symbol of optimism and hope; bringingjoy and magic into people's lives; creating
memories with friends and family that lasta lifetime; being a showcase of responsibility.
OF (37:26):
Right.
MK (37:27):
So even when I go back to May of 2020 when we reopened, we were the first major
global tourism destination worldwide to reopen,and maybe be a little bit of a beacon of light
to people all around the world who were indifferent stages of the pandemic.
OF (37:41):
Yes.
MK (37:46):
I have to say, your end of Season 02 Mosaic of China party was probably one of the social
highlights of the last few years in Shanghai.
What a wonderful collection of people.
Honestly, it was great to see you, great tosee all of your different guests, and to celebrate
together.
OF (38:06):
Well, I am very flattered.
I don't know what to do when people complimentme, but I will accept it graciously.
MK (38:12):
You should.
Honestly.
Honestly, you brought the community togetherin a way that I hadn't seen in 24 years.
OF (38:17):
Oh, that's so nice to hear.
Well then, thank you for that.
And thank you for the encouragement, thankyou for your participation, and I hope to
continue to stay in touch with you Murray.
MK (38:26):
My pleasure Oscar.
[Catch-Up Interview 2]EM: Hello?
OF (38:30):
Hello!
EM (38:31):
Hi!
OF (38:32):
You look amazing.
EM (38:35):
Thank you!
Do I?
It's the glow, you know.
OF (38:40):
What do you mean ‘glow’?
EM (38:42):
So my new news is that I'm pregnant.
OF (38:46):
I knew it, as soon as you said that.
How funny.
Congratulations.
EM (38:53):
Thank you.
OF (38:54):
It’s making me go back to our original recording.
For those who didn't listen, Emily was atthat time working for Sea Life in Shanghai.
As part of our conversation, I was shouting“Fish Fact!”
at you, and you were coming up with randomfish facts.
But all of them had to do with either sexor childbirth.
And now I'm thinking “All right, well what'syour story this time?”
EM (39:19):
So I moved to Thailand - based in Sea Life Bangkok for two and a half years now
- had a great time, last year met my now partner,and yeah recently found out we're expecting
a little girl.
OF (39:36):
I'm very happy for you.
EM (39:38):
Thank you.
OF (39:39):
At the same time, I'm quite sad because it means that there's less and less likelihood
that I'm ever going to have the chance toappear on your doorstep, and crash on your
couch.
EM (39:47):
That’s true.
OF (39:48):
Couldn’t you have waited?
EM (39:49):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't think of you when I was thinking about it.
OF (39:53):
Exactly, it’s so selfish.
EM (39:54):
Unless you want to come to Copenhagen.
So I am moving to Copenhagen in a few weeks.
OF (40:02):
Oh my word!
EM (40:03):
Yeah.
So it's all change again.
My partner's Danish, so we're going to begoing back to Denmark for the duration of
my maternity leave, and have the baby there.
So I've got to get used to the cold weatheragain.
OF (40:17):
Well, well.
It's so funny, because of course you are oneof the people from Season 01, and by the time
it was Season 02 you were in a different country,and then now that it's Season 03 it's gonna
be a third country.
Believe it or not, you're not the only onein that position, it’s so crazy.
EM (40:34):
Really?
Yeah.
Obviously I was in Shanghai, which is wherewe met.
And I have two Sea Life centres in China thatI was hoping I could go and visit before I
go on maternity leave.
But unfortunately, it'll have to be when Icome back now.
So we'll have to meet up for a beer when I'mback.
OF (40:52):
Yes.
Well what we talked a lot about in our originalepisode was, of course, how you had spent
an entire year organising the paperwork totransport two beluga whales from Shanghai
to their ‘forever home’ in Iceland.
What is the update this time?
And have you been to Europe to actually seethem in person at this point?
EM (41:10):
So the whales are doing fantastically, making a lot of progress.
We've got a great team there who are workingon a lot of their training behaviours.
They're now learning to go out into the bay,and being recalled back for things like bad
weather.
It's still a big focus for Sea Life, there'sstill a lot of things we need to do, and a
(41:33):
lot of progress to make, but we're headingin the right direction.
And the whales are loving their new life,making lots of friends with the other sea
creatures that they're finding, discoveringthe sea anemones and the starfish and things
like that that they never encountered in captivity.
So yeah, very humbling.
And I didn't manage to get over to Iceland,we were planning on going last Christmas to
(41:58):
go and see the whales, but bad weather stoppedit.
There was a lot of work that went into that- which we discussed on the podcast - and
it'd be really nice to actually see the finalpart.
So I'm really looking forward to being ableto do that.
OF (42:09):
Yes.
There are just a few loose ends hanging aroundthe world for many people.
EM (42:13):
Yeah.
OF (42:14):
And we haven't quite gotten around to tying them off, right?
EM (42:16):
Yeah, correct, correct.
But we all will, I'm sure.
OF (42:20):
Yeah.
This is the last time that I will speak toyou in Bangkok.
And I'm also thinking about our original episode,about the things that you would miss when
you left Shanghai.
Things like the food, I think hotpot was oneof the things that you mentioned.
EM (42:33):
Yes.
OF (42:34):
What about now that you're leaving Bangkok, and leaving Asia, at least for the time being?
Do you know what you're gonna miss the mostand miss the least this time around?
EM (42:40):
Definitely the food, the food is fantastic in Thailand, as everyone knows.
And the prices.
And the beaches and the weather are just paradisehere.
OF (42:53):
Well, good luck with everything; good luck with the maternity leave; good luck with
Denmark.
Thank you very much for giving me a few minutesof your time, and I hope that we will continue
to keep in touch as part of this project,but also personally as well.
EM (43:05):
Definitely.
Thank you for having me, it was great to catchup.
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