September 2, 2019 • 32 mins
Today’s interview is with Astrid Poghosyan, an Armenian violinist and the first non-Chinese management employee in the 140-year history of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra. Astrid is the youngest guest in Season One of the podcast, but she has achieved a lot in the nine years that she has been here in China. Astrid and I talk about her passion for music, her passion for Armenia, and her life as an unofficial ambassador for both those parts of her identity. Astrid was in the first batch of graduates who could stay on in China after completing their studies. Before that, graduates needed to leave the country and work elsewhere for a couple of years before searching for employment back in China. Her application number under the new Visa regime was "001", and at the time she became a focus of debate on Chinese social media on the value of allowing young foreigners to stay and work in Shanghai. So it's a pleasure to release this recording, and give her the final word on this debate. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:44 - Part 1 20:41 - Part 2 29:24 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
[Trailer]AP: Have you ever smelled the stinky tofu?
OF (00:04):
Oh god. AP
a kind of smell like that existed, ever. That'swhy it's shocking every time.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs. Thanks
very much for all your comments about lastweek’s episode. That was with Eric. And
(00:27):
a lot of you know him well, and a lot of thosepeople told me, well, I made a mistake to
interview him, because Eric’s the kind ofperson who speaks in such beautiful, flowing,
well-informed prose, that he makes anyonearound him look pretty stupid. Thank you for
that feedback, I wish somebody out there wouldhave warned me about this earlier. But I’m
(00:48):
glad at least that it isn’t just me.
So we go from one of the more venerable tilesin the Mosaic to, I think, the youngest person
in the whole of Season 01. Today’s interviewis with Astrid Poghosyan. Astrid is an Armenian
violinist, and she’s the first non-Chinesemanagement employee in the 140-year history
(01:08):
of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra. So yes,just because she is the youngest in the series,
that doesn’t let any of us off the hookwhen it comes to being impressed with what
she’s achieved in the last 9 or so yearsI think, that she’s been here in China.
Astrid and I talk about her passion for music,her passion for Armenia, and her life as an
(01:28):
unofficial ambassador for both of those partsof her identity. We’ll also learn about
what the ATM machine and the hairdryer havein common. You might know this already, but
for everyone else, if it helps you win a pubquiz in the future, I will be expecting my
share of the prize.
[Part 1]OF: Well, thank you so much. I'm here with
Astrid Poghosyan.AP: That’s correct.
(01:49):
Oh god… AP
Well, I had a little pause, you probably heard…
AP (01:55):
Yes. OF
of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra.AP: Yes, I am.
OF (02:01):
Well, thank you so much for coming today. AP
And let's waste no more time, and let's go straight into your object. So what object
did you bring?AP: I brought the meaning of my life. Wow,
that sounded special, right? Yeah, I broughtsomething that I've been doing for my entire
life, almost. And that's exactly, like, aname-card of myself, and who I am. That's
(02:26):
what I brought with me today.OF: And I can see this object, so it's not
a surprise to me. But why don't you revealwhat your object is?
AP (02:33):
That's something… My object… You're gonna hear my object.
OF (02:37):
Ah, OK. Well then why don't you put the microphone down. And I will record you as
you play your object.[Violin music]
(03:15):
Thank you so much. AP
Well, tell me about that piece. AP
folk song. I grew up listening to these songs,including like, my mom used to sing it to
(03:38):
me when I was a little kid, as a lullaby.And then it was basically the first introduction
to music to me. And these tunes have beenfollowing me through my whole journey, my
life journey itself. And while I was in Chinaas well, when I was feeling homesick, when
I was missing home and my family, I wouldjust play it to myself, sort of as a reminder
(04:00):
of my roots, and just comforting myself, andgetting connection with whatever I had before.
Wow, well thank you again, that was awesome. AP
And so how did you get from Armenia to Shanghai? What's the story in a nutshell?
AP (04:16):
Well, the story started back in 2009, when I graduated from my high school - when
I was about to graduate from my high school- and I applied for a governmental scholarship.
Because I was just turning 16, and my momwanted me to go somewhere safe. And so I applied
for a governmental scholarship. But eventually,they told me that I was the first musician
(04:38):
ever applying for that programme, that’swhy I have to wait until any country will
accept me. And I was applying to go to somewhereclose to Armenia - that means, like, somewhere
in Europe - but then one day they called me,they said the only country that is accepting
musicians is China. And that was the clashingmoment of me realising that, I don't know
(05:00):
what I'm going to do, whether I'm going totake it or just stay in Armenia.
OF (05:04):
Because until then, had you had any connection with China?
AP (05:07):
Well, I remember, myself, when I was a kid, I used to watch a lot of Jackie Chan
movies. And being a girl, it was the rarething. But for some reason, I really liked
him. And also the Disney cartoon Mulan, Iremember myself watching it, like, five to
six times per day. Because I was never a Cinderellatype of girl - deep in my heart, maybe - but
(05:32):
I always like the Mulan character. So afterwards,when I came to China, I realised that probably
it made some sense, back then when I was watchingJackie Chan and Mulan, and probably that was
for some reason.OF: And what age were you then, when you first
came to China?AP: I just turned 16.
OF (05:49):
Wow, so young. AP
was young. Yeah, that's true.OF: And so you went straight into a scholarship
for school, right? How did that work?AP: Yes, first when I arrived… Because I
didn't speak Chinese back then. And then theytold me that they will give me eight months
of time to learn the language. Because allthe classes in the Conservatory of Music were
(06:12):
in Chinese, so if I couldn't speak it thenI couldn't study. So they gave me eight months
to take the exam for ‘HSK’ - that’sthe Chinese language exam - and after that,
luckily, I learned Chinese, and then I wasable to study here, continue my studies.
So let's go back to those days when you were studying here in China. 16 years old,
(06:33):
maybe turned 17 after you passed the HSK test…AP: That’s true.
What were the things that you enjoyed the most? And what were the main challenges
back then?AP: The challenge, of course - I think, as
every foreigner coming to China not speakingthe language - is the language. Because it
was super different. I was myself like, alreadyspeaking three languages, Armenian, Russian
(06:56):
and English. And then I thought, probablythis is going to be OK. Then I realised that
it has nothing to do with any Latin alphabet.And then it was like, just a whole new world
to me. And then every day studying was super,super hard. That was one of the biggest challenges.
But then - at the same time as how challengingit was - then the benefit of it, and the enjoyable
(07:16):
part of it is really learning it. But learningnot only the language, but learning the culture
itself. For me, language is always as a packagefor a culture itself. So it was that beautiful
period of time of getting to know China itself,the culture, the people and customs, and including
the language.OF: And so what did you find out about the
(07:39):
Chinese knowledge of ArmeniaAP: That was really one of the biggest shocks
for me, as an Armenian, because even thoughwe are super small country, our people are
a very proud nation. And we grew up in - Iwouldn't call it a bubble, but we grew up
in - a bubble, that we are the centre of theworld. We created, you know, we invented these
(08:05):
things, the hairdryer, we invented the ATM,by the way, which is true. And then we think
we are the centre of the world. And then withthat mindset, I came to China. And I remember
the first person asked me “Where are youfrom?” I was proudly saying that I'm from
Armenia, and then I was thinking, you know,fireworks and everything coming, but then
(08:25):
the person asked, like “Where is it?”And then I was like “What do you mean, where
is it? It's Armenia, like, how do you nowknow where Armenia is”. And then I realised
that actually, he really didn't know. And,like him, there were thousands and millions
of people. So that was my first cultural shock,let’s say. Luckily, back then I had a tool
with me, which is called music, which doesn'trequire any language. So by the time I was
(08:50):
learning Chinese - before learning it - Idecided, while I'm learning the language itself,
to be able to communicate and tell them thestory of my country, I can use music to explain
my identity. Which actually, back then, workedperfectly. So I used music to introduce my
country in my identity to Chinese people.OF: And of course, violin was was what you
(09:13):
played. What was your your first experiencelearning violin back in Armenia?
AP (09:18):
I remember that, because I'm coming from a family where I have two sisters, musicians.
I was about to say that I'm coming from amusician family, but I'm not. It's only my
sisters playing it. And my mom always toldus that every girl should learn to play an
instrument, because it makes them more feminineand nice. So as I was the youngest, my first
sister was playing piano, and piano was alwaysat home. And I could just go and play whatever
(09:43):
I wanted. But with the violin, that my secondsister was playing, it was always something
super sacred, you know, she would never everlet me touch it. Because she was scared that
I was going to break it obviously. And then,so when it came to me, my mom came and asked
what I wanted to play, whether it's like Iwant to play piano or violin, and without
any hesitation, I said “Of course, I wantto play violin,” because I never got to
(10:07):
touch it. Because my sister never allowedit. So because of her, I chose to play the
violin. It's not because she was inspiring,it’s because she never let me touch that
instrument.OF: Got it. So how did you then become somebody
working in the Symphony Orchestra from beingthat violin student. What was your second
story?AP: Because while I was studying, I realised
(10:31):
that of course violin is something that belongsto my soul. It is what it is. But I always
realised that I cannot only just play this.I was always very interested in doing a lot
of other stuff, be it management, be it doingsome activity. Organising some activities,
or doing some other stuff. So when it cameto choosing what to do afterwards, I decided
(10:54):
maybe I can just try to do something withmanagement. And exactly when I was hesitating
at that period, I got this offer from theShanghai Symphony Orchestra to work for them
as a part of management. And I decided togive it a try, and I'm glad I did.
OF (11:08):
So tell me about how it's run. What kind of organisation is the Symphony Orchestra?
AP (11:14):
The Shanghai Symphony Orchestra is a governmentally run institution. Ut's very different from
what happens elsewhere in the world. Becausein different countries, it's usually that
the orchestras are private, they are fundedby private funders. But here in China, all
the orchestras belong to the government. Soit's fully… it's mainly covered by government,
(11:37):
mainly funded by government.OF: And it's the central government or it's
the Shanghai local government?AP: Central. But of course, every city is
taking care of it on their own.OF: Was there a time when there was something
which was a market driven force, which thenthe governmental side didn't quite understand?
I guess, one of the examples can be like, if we are having, let's say, a world-famous
(12:00):
conductor, or some artist that is coming tothe Shanghai Symphony Orchestra to play…
And of course, we know that every single artist,they have their own requirements when they
come to China, or anywhere they go. Be ithotel rooms, be it - I don't know - preparations.
And sometimes the requests they have regardinghotels can be, like, I don't know, the Presidential
(12:21):
Suite, and stuff that cost like 25k or 30kper night.
OF (12:25):
Right, because these are world-class conductors, and world class musicians.
AP (12:30):
Yes exactly. OF
And it's very hard to explain to the local side, some local funds, why we need 25k or
30k per night for some certain musicians tostay.
OF (12:43):
Of course. Well, especially because it's public money. So I mean, you can see why.
AP (12:47):
Yes. OF
you now get to play, at all, with the company?Or are you now purely management within this
organisation?AP: Within this organisation, I'm now purely
as a part of management. And it is very excitingfor me to be, because even though the orchestra
has 140 years of history - and this year itis celebrating, it’s one of the oldest in
(13:11):
the world and the oldest in Asia, actually- but I'm the first foreigner employee working
for the management of the orchestra, ever.OF: Wow.
So that is really humbling and exciting for me.
OF (13:23):
So obviously, those Chinese lessons paid off, didn't they?
AP (13:26):
Hopefully so, yeah. I’m still learning, now I'm learning the Shanghai dialect. So
it's really hard.OF: Wow. Well, you said that there's a long
history of classical music appreciation herein Shanghai. So what is the audience like,
you know, when you're talking about audienceshere, versus maybe elsewhere in the world?
I find the audience in Shanghai very fascinating. And not only me, all the world class artists
(13:53):
- when they come to Shanghai, they perform- all of them, after each concert, they give
the same comment about our audience, how amazingit is, in terms of like the age range, in
terms of behaviour. Because sometimes youcan go to concerts, and you see, like, I don't
know, 5-6-year-old kids sitting throughouta whole Mahler Symphony, and not making any
(14:13):
noise. Or coming with their parents, and yousee different age ranges:10, 15, 30, 50, 70...
And it's something super rare in the world,because we know that classical music has this
cliché of old people going for the concertwearing tuxedos and stuff, and having certain
rules. But what's happening now in China islike having all this kind of different age
(14:38):
ranges, and all kinds of people, because theyare curious about learning. Even though it
has over 140 years’ history, it's stilla relatively super new field for Chinese people.
That's why they're curious to explore.OF: I happen to know that you have been on
TV recently, haven't you?AP: Yes.
OF (14:56):
OK so let's talk about that. What was this TV experience you recently had?
AP (15:01):
It was actually starting, like, two years ago, when I got invited to take part in this
Shanghai Central TV talk show, which was abouthaving six to seven foreigners every week
gathering, and talking about some customsabout their own countries. And I was, of course,
representing Armenia. And I thought, it'sa great chance for me, myself, to represent
(15:23):
and spread the word about my country. Andso we would just casually sit, and talk about
different topics. Let's say one week we wouldtalk about weddings, and all the country representatives,
they would talk about wedding traditions intheir own countries, so in that way, I was
able to talk about the customs of Armenia.And then next time we would talk about, like,
(15:44):
sports. And we talked about how the fieldis developed in the countries that we are
representing. So at some point, I realisedit brought some kind of recognition to me,
and most importantly, brought recognitionto my country. So I would have some people
running around the street, and then comingover to me, and start telling me that “Oh,
you're that girl I saw on TV. What's yourname? Er, you're from Armenia.” That would
(16:08):
be like “Yo, that's great. You don't remembermy name, but my country.” Then yeah, mission
achieved.OF: And what what do you think are the similarities
between Armenia and China?AP: One of the most similar things for me
personally, I find the customs in terms oflike traditional values, family values that
we have. And that's one of the main thingsprobably, when people ask me “How come you
(16:31):
stayed in China for so long, and you stillfeel like staying here?” And I believe that's
one of the most important things that I realised,they have the family values. How they spend
time together, how important it is to talkevery day to their parents, and ask about
their wellbeing. Because even though I knowlike, you know… I have some friends that…
they will talk to their parents once in awhile, for Christmas or something. But for
(16:55):
Armenians, we just every day, you know, youhave to talk about where you are and stuff.
I realised they have the same for China, Chinesepeople do that. For Spring Festival, they
gather. And yeah, I think that the familyvalues are one of the most similar things
that Armenia and China has. And people, yeah.OF: And so what do you do in your spare time?
Like, I know how busy you are with your job,and you also do other musical projects on
(17:20):
the side, as well as your TV appearances…Do you have any other projects that you're
involved in?AP: Other projects that I do, they’re probably
for nourishing my soul. That’s how I callit. I do some charity projects that I started
while I was a student at the Shanghai Conservatoryof Music. And I remember back then, I did
(17:41):
that with my Chinese classmates in the conservatory.There was a charity project we named ‘Turn
On Your Heart’ which was about… the maingoal was about to go to all these schools
or kindergartens for autistic kids…OF: Autistic kids?
Autistic. OF
(18:01):
Sorry for my pronunciation. OF
And we would go to their places, and then perform for them, introduce music to them,
musical instruments. Because some of the kids,they were problematic - in terms of like,
I don't know, some were hyperactive or hardto talk - but the music was something that
you don't have to make them talk or… theyjust have to listen. And we would have incredible
(18:25):
results.OF: Right, and that's where, you know, music
is really universal. Because you could bein China, you could be in any place in the
world, and have the same effect, right?AP: Yes. Yes I totally agree.
OF (18:39):
Going back to the the orchestra then, what is your actual job? You work with the
president? And what are your responsibilities?AP: Actually, yeah, it's very broad, because
as the President has to do all the things,whatever is happening within the orchestra,
so my job is following her. So it requiresto communicate with all kinds of departments.
(19:03):
And she's Shanghainese? AP
lady, very inspiring woman.OF: And so what kind of programme do you run?
I mean, is it diverse? Or is it focused onone particular kind of classical music?
AP (19:17):
No, because we have traditional seasons in the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra - which
are classical traditional concerts - but atthe same time, we also have music festivals
during summer - ‘MISA’ - which is aboutjazz and contemporary music. So we have all
kinds of genres because it's, as I said, it'sdeveloping, so we are trying to give the market
all kinds of classical music that is availablenow in the world.
OF (19:41):
Did you ever think - even, like when you were studying - that you would stay for 10
years?AP: That's the thing, in terms of like, while
I was studying here, when people asked meI would say “Oh, I'm studying here, I'm
studying here”. So that was, like four yearsor five years. “I'm studying here.” Six
years (19:56):
“I'm studying here.” At the seventh year when they asked me, I'm like “I'm living
here”.OF: That's it, you've graduated.
AP (20:02):
Yes, I've graduated. OF
institutionalised, now. I don't know how muchlonger you'll stay, but you seem to be so
at home here, especially since you came insuch a formative time of your life, really.
I do believe so. Because soon it's gonna be almost the same time that I've spent in
Armenia - and counting that, in Armenia, forthe first five years, I was not able to understand
(20:25):
what's going on - and all my conscious life,I mean, I've been in China. So I believe it's
quite an important, big role in my life.OF: Great. Well, thanks very much for that.
And I guess because you've been here so long,I'm excited about your answers for Part 2.
[Part 2]OF: So let's go straight into the then questions
that we have prepared. I'll start straightawaywith Question 1. What's your favourite China-related
(20:51):
fact?AP: China-related fact… Actually that was
on my mind, I think it's like, you know, thatput together, all of China's railway lines
could loop around the Earth twice.OF: …And they're still building more right?
Yes. So maybe it's gonna be three times. OF
in Chinese?AP: Oh yeah, I do. Favourite phrase, it’s
(21:14):
like 烦死了 [fánsǐle], when you say…OF: Ah, 烦死了 [fánsǐle].
It's one of the most frequent things I keep saying all the time, 烦死了 [fánsǐle],
and people who doesn't know what it means,it’s really hard to even translate what
it is, it’s just when you get really frustratedor something, you just keep saying 烦死了
[fánsǐle].OF: I've only heard 太麻烦了 [tài máfanle],
(21:34):
but…AP: 太麻烦 [tài máfan], 麻烦 [máfan]
is also 烦 [fán], it’s the same 烦 [fán],it’s ‘annoying’.
OF (21:38):
Yeah. AP
Well there you go, I'm gonna switch now. I'm gonna say 烦死了 [fánsǐle].
AP (21:43):
Yes, please. OF
China?AP: I love Hangzhou city. I like 西湖 [Xīhú],
and I remember until now, every time whenI go there, it’s some kind of peaceful emotion
I always get there, something unexplainable.And I think it's different when you go to
Europe, it’s a different kind of peace youfind in Hangzhou. It’s really like those
(22:04):
old Chinese times, like when you read in thebooks, it's exactly that. So I really love
that city.OF: Yeah, I've only been there once. But I
went, I think, during one of the crowded,busy seasons…
Lucky you! OF
you could find these quiet areas, especiallyup in the mountains where, you know…
It’s magical… OF
(22:25):
what you're talking about. How many timeshave you been there?
I think five to six, I believe. OF
of those places that actually is only a coupleof hours away from from Shanghai.
Yeah, right? Yeah. OF
the most, and what would you miss the least?AP: I think the most I would miss is traditional
(22:46):
local 小笼包 [xiǎolóngbāo]. I wouldmiss that very much. And what I wouldn't miss
is probably… have you ever smelled the stinkytofu?
OF (22:56):
Oh god. AP
a kind of smell like that existed, ever. That'swhy it's shocking every time.
And have you ever tasted it before? AP
It’s actually not as bad as it smells, but…
AP (23:10):
That’s… All Chinese people say that. So you're saying that too?
OF (23:13):
I’m saying it too, but… AP
I've tried it, I've tried it. But I am not used to it. And I I've tried lots of smelly
foods. I quite like so many foods, so likeblue cheese… So I thought “You know what,
one day I will get used to stinky tofu.”But yeah, it's never happened.
AP (23:28):
OK. OF
you about life in China?AP: I think after living in China for ten
years, there is nothing that surprises meanymore. And it's not about only China, it’s
about the world.OF: What is your favourite place to hang out,
to eat, to drink, here in Shanghai?AP: I think one of my favourite places for
(23:49):
food is Sichuan Citizen restaurant. And it'sbeen, I think the first Chinese restaurant
I've ever even tried in Shanghai, becauseback then they used to be at 东湖 [Dōnghú]
Road, and the Shanghai Conservatory of Musicwas beside it. And I've been going there for,
like, ten years already. And the people there,I’ve known for ten years. And I spend, like,
five to six of my birthdays there with them.So it's just very, very, super, like ‘first
(24:13):
place to go’ and take my friends, whoeveris visiting here. And then besides that, for
drinks, I'm a very ‘terrace’ person. Ireally love terraces, and Shanghai gives so
many opportunities for that. So just namea terrace, anything open-air, sounds good.
OF (24:27):
But there's only a certain time of the year that that really makes sense. Otherwise
it’s freezing cold or it’s boiling hot,or…
AP (24:33):
Yeah OF
always seem like a good idea to me, but Ialways find a reason to complain…
For example, yeah, it's too cold, or hot, and…
OF (24:44):
Exactly. Maybe that's just my personality there… What is the best or worst purchase
you have made in China?AP: The best purchase I've ever made, so far…
It’s - I don't know whether you have seenit - it’s like this like automatic wine
bottle opener machine. Have you seen thatthing?
(25:05):
I have. AP
surprises me so much. And after that, everytime I’m just like “Just look, look, this
is so cool”. I just show it. So yeah, thatis the best purchase I've ever done.
And the next question, what is your favourite WeChat sticker?
AP (25:21):
Oh, I have an addiction with the stickers. I have, like, 200-something, so I have to
choose. This one, that I sent to you, OK thisis my favourite.
OF (25:33):
Ahh. AP
very hard for me to describe what it is, like.But um, once you say something that somebody
didn't expect, or you got them, you just sendthis in sort of like… now I'm literally
physically imitating this…OF: Right.
AP (25:48):
So this is the one. OF
“Yeah!”AP: Like “I told you!”
OF (25:54):
“I told you”, pointing at you… And this part's coming out, it’s
AP (25:58):
It’s a lot of… Once you live here, I think it's a lot of things that's like “I
told you so”, right? And it just becomeslike that.
OF (26:03):
Right. So actually yeah, it's a cute way of saying “I told you so, I’m cleverer
and better than you.”AP: Yes. Exactly. Thanks. Thanks for putting
it in the right away. Um, and another favouriteone I use is this one, the second one that
I’ve sent to you.OF: A-ha, another little kid.
AP (26:18):
Another, I don't know why I have so many kids, but… But this, the second one, is
just, I think a lot of people can relate towho are living in China, because sometimes
you hear some stuff, and this is exactly theemotion you are getting.
OF (26:30):
Oh, I like it. I almost don't want to describe it. But maybe it's just like a "What
the hell was that?”AP: Yeah, like… Yes, exactly. It just…
I think once you see it, and you live in China,you just get it, like, you don't have to explain
it.OF: Next question, when you go to KTV - to
karaoke - what is your go-to song?AP: Oh, wow. Because as a musician, people
(26:56):
think that I have to sing really well. BecauseI'm a musician, I have perfect pitch, and
all my life is all about being in tune. Sowhen I'm in KTV, I'm trying to sing as out
of tune as possible. And I try to go for thosesongs, the sad ones like, you know, you find
people sitting in the corners and relatingto their lives and stuff, like Michael Jackson,
(27:19):
“You Are Not Alone”. And I'm trying todo it in a super out-of-tune way, and I really
enjoy it. But I'm the only one enjoying it,I believe. So…
And could you, if you wanted to, sing it in a good way? Or actually, that's just
the best you can do?AP: No, of course I can. But I just… because
everyday life, I'm being in tue with my music,so KTV is the time to leave it to your soul,
(27:44):
and just go out of tune.OF: Yeah, like forget the perfection.
AP (27:47):
Yes. OF
media or sources of information do you relyon?
To be honest, I think mainly what I do, I rely on my 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān], I
rely on my WeChat moments. Because I havea variety - “mosaic” - of friends, coming
from different parts of the world, and theyshare their own country's news; Chinese people
(28:13):
share the local what's happening… So it'slike, I think it's a bouquet of all kinds
of news. So I rely on my 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān]for news.
OF (28:21):
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for that, Astrid.
AP (28:23):
Thank you for having me, Oscar. OF
if there was one person that you know of,here in China, that you would recommend I
interview next, who would it be?AP: For my recommendation, this time, after
thinking a lot, I'm gonna recommend FredaFung, actually a wonderful human being that
I got to know in Shanghai. And currently she'sthe regional President and Managing Director
(28:48):
for probably one of the most admired organisationsin the world, Special Olympics. And the mission
of this organisation is to provide, like,year-round sports training and athletic competition
in a variety of Olympic-type sports for childrenand adults with intellectual disabilities.
And every time I hear Freda talking aboutit, she's so passionate and enthusiastic about
(29:11):
it. So I'm sure she will have so many storiesto share with you, and inspire other people
too.OF: That’s great. Oh, thank you so much,
I look forward to meeting Frieda.AP: Thank you.
OF (29:19):
And thanks so much for your time today. AP
[Outro]OF: So that was Astrid. I first met Astrid
outside a café down my street, she was havingdrinks with a Persian Armenian friend of mine,
Vaché. Vaché made the introduction, andthis is the result: a new friendship and a
new podcast episode. And that’s how thingswork around here, people are very generous
(29:43):
with their connections and open with theirsupport. But Vaché is especially like that,
so a special thanks to him.
As always, please check out the images associatedwith today’s episode on social media, it’s
@mosaicofchina_ on Instagram and @mosaicofchinaon Facebook, and for WeChat, add me on ID:
mosaicofchina and I’ll connect you to theWeChat group.
(30:04):
So this week there’s a Wikipedia image onwhere Armenia is in the world, in case you
might need a handy nudge about that; thereare photos of the Shanghai Symphony Hall,
it’s a beautiful building inside and out;there’s also a photo that I took in Hangzhou,
which ia Astrid’s favourite place to travelto in China. Astrid said that she loved 西湖
(30:24):
[Xīhú], this is “West Lake” it sitsin the middle of Hangzhou, and that’s what
the photo is of. What my photo does not includeis the other hundreds of Chinese tourists
who were just to the left, and to the right,and behind, and on top of where I was standing.
The thing that Astrid would miss the mostif she left China, she said 小笼包 [xiǎolóngbāo].
Those are the classic little shanghai dumplingsthat are filled with hot soup. And I’ve
(30:47):
posted a photo of those, they’re nice witha dash of vinegar. And, of course, her two
favourite WeChat stickers are up; and herfavourite restaurant, Sichuan Citizen; and
the final batch of photos are from her appearance- or rater multiple appearances - on that
Chinese TV show, it was called ‘生活大不同[shēnghuó dàbùtóng]’. Astrid mentions
the HSK test, that’s the name of the Mandarinlanguage proficiently test that is officially
(31:12):
recognised here in China. These days, there’sa points system for getting work permits,
and your HSK test result is part of this equation,alongside of course many other factors. The
‘H’ of the ‘HSK’, the ‘H’ means‘汉语 [hànyǔ]’, which is ‘Chinese’;
the ’S’ is ‘水平 [shuǐpíng]’,which is ‘Standard’ or ‘Level’; and
the ‘K’ is 考试 [kǎoshì], which is‘Test’. And there are six levels, HSK1
is the easiest, and HSK6 is the top.
Also on the subject of visas, Astrid mentionedto me after the interview that she was in
the first batch of graduates who could stayon in China after completing their studies.
Before that, you needed to leave the countryand then work somewhere else for a couple
(31:34):
of years before coming back. So she was ableto accept that job at the Shanghai Symphony
Orchestra. And in fact, her visa applicationwas ‘001’. So at the time she became a
big focus of debate on the whole value ofallowing young foreigners to stay and to work
in Shanghai. So that was part of her lifethat we didn’t cover in the interview, but
one thing that I thought was quite interesting.And also, another reminder that there you
(31:58):
have it, you know, despite being the youngestguest, there’s probably still another whole
episode’s worth of stories we could havecovered.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs; editingby Milo de Prieto; artwork is by Denny Newell;
and China technical support is from AlstonGong. If you like us, please rate and comment
on iTunes, or wherever you download this podcast.Thank you for listening this far, and see
(32:19):
you next week.
[Trailer]AP: Have you ever smelled the stinky tofu?
OF (00:04):
Oh god. AP
a kind of smell like that existed, ever. That'swhy it's shocking every time.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs. Thanks
very much for all your comments about lastweek’s episode. That was with Eric. And
(00:27):
a lot of you know him well, and a lot of thosepeople told me, well, I made a mistake to
interview him, because Eric’s the kind ofperson who speaks in such beautiful, flowing,
well-informed prose, that he makes anyonearound him look pretty stupid. Thank you for
that feedback, I wish somebody out there wouldhave warned me about this earlier. But I’m
(00:48):
glad at least that it isn’t just me.
So we go from one of the more venerable tilesin the Mosaic to, I think, the youngest person
in the whole of Season 01. Today’s interviewis with Astrid Poghosyan. Astrid is an Armenian
violinist, and she’s the first non-Chinesemanagement employee in the 140-year history
(01:08):
of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra. So yes,just because she is the youngest in the series,
that doesn’t let any of us off the hookwhen it comes to being impressed with what
she’s achieved in the last 9 or so yearsI think, that she’s been here in China.
Astrid and I talk about her passion for music,her passion for Armenia, and her life as an
(01:28):
unofficial ambassador for both of those partsof her identity. We’ll also learn about
what the ATM machine and the hairdryer havein common. You might know this already, but
for everyone else, if it helps you win a pubquiz in the future, I will be expecting my
share of the prize.
[Part 1]OF: Well, thank you so much. I'm here with
Astrid Poghosyan.AP: That’s correct.
(01:49):
Oh god… AP
Well, I had a little pause, you probably heard…
AP (01:55):
Yes. OF
of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra.AP: Yes, I am.
OF (02:01):
Well, thank you so much for coming today. AP
And let's waste no more time, and let's go straight into your object. So what object
did you bring?AP: I brought the meaning of my life. Wow,
that sounded special, right? Yeah, I broughtsomething that I've been doing for my entire
life, almost. And that's exactly, like, aname-card of myself, and who I am. That's
(02:26):
what I brought with me today.OF: And I can see this object, so it's not
a surprise to me. But why don't you revealwhat your object is?
AP (02:33):
That's something… My object… You're gonna hear my object.
OF (02:37):
Ah, OK. Well then why don't you put the microphone down. And I will record you as
you play your object.[Violin music]
(03:15):
Thank you so much. AP
Well, tell me about that piece. AP
folk song. I grew up listening to these songs,including like, my mom used to sing it to
(03:38):
me when I was a little kid, as a lullaby.And then it was basically the first introduction
to music to me. And these tunes have beenfollowing me through my whole journey, my
life journey itself. And while I was in Chinaas well, when I was feeling homesick, when
I was missing home and my family, I wouldjust play it to myself, sort of as a reminder
(04:00):
of my roots, and just comforting myself, andgetting connection with whatever I had before.
Wow, well thank you again, that was awesome. AP
And so how did you get from Armenia to Shanghai? What's the story in a nutshell?
AP (04:16):
Well, the story started back in 2009, when I graduated from my high school - when
I was about to graduate from my high school- and I applied for a governmental scholarship.
Because I was just turning 16, and my momwanted me to go somewhere safe. And so I applied
for a governmental scholarship. But eventually,they told me that I was the first musician
(04:38):
ever applying for that programme, that’swhy I have to wait until any country will
accept me. And I was applying to go to somewhereclose to Armenia - that means, like, somewhere
in Europe - but then one day they called me,they said the only country that is accepting
musicians is China. And that was the clashingmoment of me realising that, I don't know
(05:00):
what I'm going to do, whether I'm going totake it or just stay in Armenia.
OF (05:04):
Because until then, had you had any connection with China?
AP (05:07):
Well, I remember, myself, when I was a kid, I used to watch a lot of Jackie Chan
movies. And being a girl, it was the rarething. But for some reason, I really liked
him. And also the Disney cartoon Mulan, Iremember myself watching it, like, five to
six times per day. Because I was never a Cinderellatype of girl - deep in my heart, maybe - but
(05:32):
I always like the Mulan character. So afterwards,when I came to China, I realised that probably
it made some sense, back then when I was watchingJackie Chan and Mulan, and probably that was
for some reason.OF: And what age were you then, when you first
came to China?AP: I just turned 16.
OF (05:49):
Wow, so young. AP
was young. Yeah, that's true.OF: And so you went straight into a scholarship
for school, right? How did that work?AP: Yes, first when I arrived… Because I
didn't speak Chinese back then. And then theytold me that they will give me eight months
of time to learn the language. Because allthe classes in the Conservatory of Music were
(06:12):
in Chinese, so if I couldn't speak it thenI couldn't study. So they gave me eight months
to take the exam for ‘HSK’ - that’sthe Chinese language exam - and after that,
luckily, I learned Chinese, and then I wasable to study here, continue my studies.
So let's go back to those days when you were studying here in China. 16 years old,
(06:33):
maybe turned 17 after you passed the HSK test…AP: That’s true.
What were the things that you enjoyed the most? And what were the main challenges
back then?AP: The challenge, of course - I think, as
every foreigner coming to China not speakingthe language - is the language. Because it
was super different. I was myself like, alreadyspeaking three languages, Armenian, Russian
(06:56):
and English. And then I thought, probablythis is going to be OK. Then I realised that
it has nothing to do with any Latin alphabet.And then it was like, just a whole new world
to me. And then every day studying was super,super hard. That was one of the biggest challenges.
But then - at the same time as how challengingit was - then the benefit of it, and the enjoyable
(07:16):
part of it is really learning it. But learningnot only the language, but learning the culture
itself. For me, language is always as a packagefor a culture itself. So it was that beautiful
period of time of getting to know China itself,the culture, the people and customs, and including
the language.OF: And so what did you find out about the
(07:39):
Chinese knowledge of ArmeniaAP: That was really one of the biggest shocks
for me, as an Armenian, because even thoughwe are super small country, our people are
a very proud nation. And we grew up in - Iwouldn't call it a bubble, but we grew up
in - a bubble, that we are the centre of theworld. We created, you know, we invented these
(08:05):
things, the hairdryer, we invented the ATM,by the way, which is true. And then we think
we are the centre of the world. And then withthat mindset, I came to China. And I remember
the first person asked me “Where are youfrom?” I was proudly saying that I'm from
Armenia, and then I was thinking, you know,fireworks and everything coming, but then
(08:25):
the person asked, like “Where is it?”And then I was like “What do you mean, where
is it? It's Armenia, like, how do you nowknow where Armenia is”. And then I realised
that actually, he really didn't know. And,like him, there were thousands and millions
of people. So that was my first cultural shock,let’s say. Luckily, back then I had a tool
with me, which is called music, which doesn'trequire any language. So by the time I was
(08:50):
learning Chinese - before learning it - Idecided, while I'm learning the language itself,
to be able to communicate and tell them thestory of my country, I can use music to explain
my identity. Which actually, back then, workedperfectly. So I used music to introduce my
country in my identity to Chinese people.OF: And of course, violin was was what you
(09:13):
played. What was your your first experiencelearning violin back in Armenia?
AP (09:18):
I remember that, because I'm coming from a family where I have two sisters, musicians.
I was about to say that I'm coming from amusician family, but I'm not. It's only my
sisters playing it. And my mom always toldus that every girl should learn to play an
instrument, because it makes them more feminineand nice. So as I was the youngest, my first
sister was playing piano, and piano was alwaysat home. And I could just go and play whatever
(09:43):
I wanted. But with the violin, that my secondsister was playing, it was always something
super sacred, you know, she would never everlet me touch it. Because she was scared that
I was going to break it obviously. And then,so when it came to me, my mom came and asked
what I wanted to play, whether it's like Iwant to play piano or violin, and without
any hesitation, I said “Of course, I wantto play violin,” because I never got to
(10:07):
touch it. Because my sister never allowedit. So because of her, I chose to play the
violin. It's not because she was inspiring,it’s because she never let me touch that
instrument.OF: Got it. So how did you then become somebody
working in the Symphony Orchestra from beingthat violin student. What was your second
story?AP: Because while I was studying, I realised
(10:31):
that of course violin is something that belongsto my soul. It is what it is. But I always
realised that I cannot only just play this.I was always very interested in doing a lot
of other stuff, be it management, be it doingsome activity. Organising some activities,
or doing some other stuff. So when it cameto choosing what to do afterwards, I decided
(10:54):
maybe I can just try to do something withmanagement. And exactly when I was hesitating
at that period, I got this offer from theShanghai Symphony Orchestra to work for them
as a part of management. And I decided togive it a try, and I'm glad I did.
OF (11:08):
So tell me about how it's run. What kind of organisation is the Symphony Orchestra?
AP (11:14):
The Shanghai Symphony Orchestra is a governmentally run institution. Ut's very different from
what happens elsewhere in the world. Becausein different countries, it's usually that
the orchestras are private, they are fundedby private funders. But here in China, all
the orchestras belong to the government. Soit's fully… it's mainly covered by government,
(11:37):
mainly funded by government.OF: And it's the central government or it's
the Shanghai local government?AP: Central. But of course, every city is
taking care of it on their own.OF: Was there a time when there was something
which was a market driven force, which thenthe governmental side didn't quite understand?
I guess, one of the examples can be like, if we are having, let's say, a world-famous
(12:00):
conductor, or some artist that is coming tothe Shanghai Symphony Orchestra to play…
And of course, we know that every single artist,they have their own requirements when they
come to China, or anywhere they go. Be ithotel rooms, be it - I don't know - preparations.
And sometimes the requests they have regardinghotels can be, like, I don't know, the Presidential
(12:21):
Suite, and stuff that cost like 25k or 30kper night.
OF (12:25):
Right, because these are world-class conductors, and world class musicians.
AP (12:30):
Yes exactly. OF
And it's very hard to explain to the local side, some local funds, why we need 25k or
30k per night for some certain musicians tostay.
OF (12:43):
Of course. Well, especially because it's public money. So I mean, you can see why.
AP (12:47):
Yes. OF
you now get to play, at all, with the company?Or are you now purely management within this
organisation?AP: Within this organisation, I'm now purely
as a part of management. And it is very excitingfor me to be, because even though the orchestra
has 140 years of history - and this year itis celebrating, it’s one of the oldest in
(13:11):
the world and the oldest in Asia, actually- but I'm the first foreigner employee working
for the management of the orchestra, ever.OF: Wow.
So that is really humbling and exciting for me.
OF (13:23):
So obviously, those Chinese lessons paid off, didn't they?
AP (13:26):
Hopefully so, yeah. I’m still learning, now I'm learning the Shanghai dialect. So
it's really hard.OF: Wow. Well, you said that there's a long
history of classical music appreciation herein Shanghai. So what is the audience like,
you know, when you're talking about audienceshere, versus maybe elsewhere in the world?
I find the audience in Shanghai very fascinating. And not only me, all the world class artists
(13:53):
- when they come to Shanghai, they perform- all of them, after each concert, they give
the same comment about our audience, how amazingit is, in terms of like the age range, in
terms of behaviour. Because sometimes youcan go to concerts, and you see, like, I don't
know, 5-6-year-old kids sitting throughouta whole Mahler Symphony, and not making any
(14:13):
noise. Or coming with their parents, and yousee different age ranges:10, 15, 30, 50, 70...
And it's something super rare in the world,because we know that classical music has this
cliché of old people going for the concertwearing tuxedos and stuff, and having certain
rules. But what's happening now in China islike having all this kind of different age
(14:38):
ranges, and all kinds of people, because theyare curious about learning. Even though it
has over 140 years’ history, it's stilla relatively super new field for Chinese people.
That's why they're curious to explore.OF: I happen to know that you have been on
TV recently, haven't you?AP: Yes.
OF (14:56):
OK so let's talk about that. What was this TV experience you recently had?
AP (15:01):
It was actually starting, like, two years ago, when I got invited to take part in this
Shanghai Central TV talk show, which was abouthaving six to seven foreigners every week
gathering, and talking about some customsabout their own countries. And I was, of course,
representing Armenia. And I thought, it'sa great chance for me, myself, to represent
(15:23):
and spread the word about my country. Andso we would just casually sit, and talk about
different topics. Let's say one week we wouldtalk about weddings, and all the country representatives,
they would talk about wedding traditions intheir own countries, so in that way, I was
able to talk about the customs of Armenia.And then next time we would talk about, like,
(15:44):
sports. And we talked about how the fieldis developed in the countries that we are
representing. So at some point, I realisedit brought some kind of recognition to me,
and most importantly, brought recognitionto my country. So I would have some people
running around the street, and then comingover to me, and start telling me that “Oh,
you're that girl I saw on TV. What's yourname? Er, you're from Armenia.” That would
(16:08):
be like “Yo, that's great. You don't remembermy name, but my country.” Then yeah, mission
achieved.OF: And what what do you think are the similarities
between Armenia and China?AP: One of the most similar things for me
personally, I find the customs in terms oflike traditional values, family values that
we have. And that's one of the main thingsprobably, when people ask me “How come you
(16:31):
stayed in China for so long, and you stillfeel like staying here?” And I believe that's
one of the most important things that I realised,they have the family values. How they spend
time together, how important it is to talkevery day to their parents, and ask about
their wellbeing. Because even though I knowlike, you know… I have some friends that…
they will talk to their parents once in awhile, for Christmas or something. But for
(16:55):
Armenians, we just every day, you know, youhave to talk about where you are and stuff.
I realised they have the same for China, Chinesepeople do that. For Spring Festival, they
gather. And yeah, I think that the familyvalues are one of the most similar things
that Armenia and China has. And people, yeah.OF: And so what do you do in your spare time?
Like, I know how busy you are with your job,and you also do other musical projects on
(17:20):
the side, as well as your TV appearances…Do you have any other projects that you're
involved in?AP: Other projects that I do, they’re probably
for nourishing my soul. That’s how I callit. I do some charity projects that I started
while I was a student at the Shanghai Conservatoryof Music. And I remember back then, I did
(17:41):
that with my Chinese classmates in the conservatory.There was a charity project we named ‘Turn
On Your Heart’ which was about… the maingoal was about to go to all these schools
or kindergartens for autistic kids…OF: Autistic kids?
Autistic. OF
(18:01):
Sorry for my pronunciation. OF
And we would go to their places, and then perform for them, introduce music to them,
musical instruments. Because some of the kids,they were problematic - in terms of like,
I don't know, some were hyperactive or hardto talk - but the music was something that
you don't have to make them talk or… theyjust have to listen. And we would have incredible
(18:25):
results.OF: Right, and that's where, you know, music
is really universal. Because you could bein China, you could be in any place in the
world, and have the same effect, right?AP: Yes. Yes I totally agree.
OF (18:39):
Going back to the the orchestra then, what is your actual job? You work with the
president? And what are your responsibilities?AP: Actually, yeah, it's very broad, because
as the President has to do all the things,whatever is happening within the orchestra,
so my job is following her. So it requiresto communicate with all kinds of departments.
(19:03):
And she's Shanghainese? AP
lady, very inspiring woman.OF: And so what kind of programme do you run?
I mean, is it diverse? Or is it focused onone particular kind of classical music?
AP (19:17):
No, because we have traditional seasons in the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra - which
are classical traditional concerts - but atthe same time, we also have music festivals
during summer - ‘MISA’ - which is aboutjazz and contemporary music. So we have all
kinds of genres because it's, as I said, it'sdeveloping, so we are trying to give the market
all kinds of classical music that is availablenow in the world.
OF (19:41):
Did you ever think - even, like when you were studying - that you would stay for 10
years?AP: That's the thing, in terms of like, while
I was studying here, when people asked meI would say “Oh, I'm studying here, I'm
studying here”. So that was, like four yearsor five years. “I'm studying here.” Six
years (19:56):
“I'm studying here.” At the seventh year when they asked me, I'm like “I'm living
here”.OF: That's it, you've graduated.
AP (20:02):
Yes, I've graduated. OF
institutionalised, now. I don't know how muchlonger you'll stay, but you seem to be so
at home here, especially since you came insuch a formative time of your life, really.
I do believe so. Because soon it's gonna be almost the same time that I've spent in
Armenia - and counting that, in Armenia, forthe first five years, I was not able to understand
(20:25):
what's going on - and all my conscious life,I mean, I've been in China. So I believe it's
quite an important, big role in my life.OF: Great. Well, thanks very much for that.
And I guess because you've been here so long,I'm excited about your answers for Part 2.
[Part 2]OF: So let's go straight into the then questions
that we have prepared. I'll start straightawaywith Question 1. What's your favourite China-related
(20:51):
fact?AP: China-related fact… Actually that was
on my mind, I think it's like, you know, thatput together, all of China's railway lines
could loop around the Earth twice.OF: …And they're still building more right?
Yes. So maybe it's gonna be three times. OF
in Chinese?AP: Oh yeah, I do. Favourite phrase, it’s
(21:14):
like 烦死了 [fánsǐle], when you say…OF: Ah, 烦死了 [fánsǐle].
It's one of the most frequent things I keep saying all the time, 烦死了 [fánsǐle],
and people who doesn't know what it means,it’s really hard to even translate what
it is, it’s just when you get really frustratedor something, you just keep saying 烦死了
[fánsǐle].OF: I've only heard 太麻烦了 [tài máfanle],
(21:34):
but…AP: 太麻烦 [tài máfan], 麻烦 [máfan]
is also 烦 [fán], it’s the same 烦 [fán],it’s ‘annoying’.
OF (21:38):
Yeah. AP
Well there you go, I'm gonna switch now. I'm gonna say 烦死了 [fánsǐle].
AP (21:43):
Yes, please. OF
China?AP: I love Hangzhou city. I like 西湖 [Xīhú],
and I remember until now, every time whenI go there, it’s some kind of peaceful emotion
I always get there, something unexplainable.And I think it's different when you go to
Europe, it’s a different kind of peace youfind in Hangzhou. It’s really like those
(22:04):
old Chinese times, like when you read in thebooks, it's exactly that. So I really love
that city.OF: Yeah, I've only been there once. But I
went, I think, during one of the crowded,busy seasons…
Lucky you! OF
you could find these quiet areas, especiallyup in the mountains where, you know…
It’s magical… OF
(22:25):
what you're talking about. How many timeshave you been there?
I think five to six, I believe. OF
of those places that actually is only a coupleof hours away from from Shanghai.
Yeah, right? Yeah. OF
the most, and what would you miss the least?AP: I think the most I would miss is traditional
(22:46):
local 小笼包 [xiǎolóngbāo]. I wouldmiss that very much. And what I wouldn't miss
is probably… have you ever smelled the stinkytofu?
OF (22:56):
Oh god. AP
a kind of smell like that existed, ever. That'swhy it's shocking every time.
And have you ever tasted it before? AP
It’s actually not as bad as it smells, but…
AP (23:10):
That’s… All Chinese people say that. So you're saying that too?
OF (23:13):
I’m saying it too, but… AP
I've tried it, I've tried it. But I am not used to it. And I I've tried lots of smelly
foods. I quite like so many foods, so likeblue cheese… So I thought “You know what,
one day I will get used to stinky tofu.”But yeah, it's never happened.
AP (23:28):
OK. OF
you about life in China?AP: I think after living in China for ten
years, there is nothing that surprises meanymore. And it's not about only China, it’s
about the world.OF: What is your favourite place to hang out,
to eat, to drink, here in Shanghai?AP: I think one of my favourite places for
(23:49):
food is Sichuan Citizen restaurant. And it'sbeen, I think the first Chinese restaurant
I've ever even tried in Shanghai, becauseback then they used to be at 东湖 [Dōnghú]
Road, and the Shanghai Conservatory of Musicwas beside it. And I've been going there for,
like, ten years already. And the people there,I’ve known for ten years. And I spend, like,
five to six of my birthdays there with them.So it's just very, very, super, like ‘first
(24:13):
place to go’ and take my friends, whoeveris visiting here. And then besides that, for
drinks, I'm a very ‘terrace’ person. Ireally love terraces, and Shanghai gives so
many opportunities for that. So just namea terrace, anything open-air, sounds good.
OF (24:27):
But there's only a certain time of the year that that really makes sense. Otherwise
it’s freezing cold or it’s boiling hot,or…
AP (24:33):
Yeah OF
always seem like a good idea to me, but Ialways find a reason to complain…
For example, yeah, it's too cold, or hot, and…
OF (24:44):
Exactly. Maybe that's just my personality there… What is the best or worst purchase
you have made in China?AP: The best purchase I've ever made, so far…
It’s - I don't know whether you have seenit - it’s like this like automatic wine
bottle opener machine. Have you seen thatthing?
(25:05):
I have. AP
surprises me so much. And after that, everytime I’m just like “Just look, look, this
is so cool”. I just show it. So yeah, thatis the best purchase I've ever done.
And the next question, what is your favourite WeChat sticker?
AP (25:21):
Oh, I have an addiction with the stickers. I have, like, 200-something, so I have to
choose. This one, that I sent to you, OK thisis my favourite.
OF (25:33):
Ahh. AP
very hard for me to describe what it is, like.But um, once you say something that somebody
didn't expect, or you got them, you just sendthis in sort of like… now I'm literally
physically imitating this…OF: Right.
AP (25:48):
So this is the one. OF
“Yeah!”AP: Like “I told you!”
OF (25:54):
“I told you”, pointing at you… And this part's coming out, it’s
AP (25:58):
It’s a lot of… Once you live here, I think it's a lot of things that's like “I
told you so”, right? And it just becomeslike that.
OF (26:03):
Right. So actually yeah, it's a cute way of saying “I told you so, I’m cleverer
and better than you.”AP: Yes. Exactly. Thanks. Thanks for putting
it in the right away. Um, and another favouriteone I use is this one, the second one that
I’ve sent to you.OF: A-ha, another little kid.
AP (26:18):
Another, I don't know why I have so many kids, but… But this, the second one, is
just, I think a lot of people can relate towho are living in China, because sometimes
you hear some stuff, and this is exactly theemotion you are getting.
OF (26:30):
Oh, I like it. I almost don't want to describe it. But maybe it's just like a "What
the hell was that?”AP: Yeah, like… Yes, exactly. It just…
I think once you see it, and you live in China,you just get it, like, you don't have to explain
it.OF: Next question, when you go to KTV - to
karaoke - what is your go-to song?AP: Oh, wow. Because as a musician, people
(26:56):
think that I have to sing really well. BecauseI'm a musician, I have perfect pitch, and
all my life is all about being in tune. Sowhen I'm in KTV, I'm trying to sing as out
of tune as possible. And I try to go for thosesongs, the sad ones like, you know, you find
people sitting in the corners and relatingto their lives and stuff, like Michael Jackson,
(27:19):
“You Are Not Alone”. And I'm trying todo it in a super out-of-tune way, and I really
enjoy it. But I'm the only one enjoying it,I believe. So…
And could you, if you wanted to, sing it in a good way? Or actually, that's just
the best you can do?AP: No, of course I can. But I just… because
everyday life, I'm being in tue with my music,so KTV is the time to leave it to your soul,
(27:44):
and just go out of tune.OF: Yeah, like forget the perfection.
AP (27:47):
Yes. OF
media or sources of information do you relyon?
To be honest, I think mainly what I do, I rely on my 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān], I
rely on my WeChat moments. Because I havea variety - “mosaic” - of friends, coming
from different parts of the world, and theyshare their own country's news; Chinese people
(28:13):
share the local what's happening… So it'slike, I think it's a bouquet of all kinds
of news. So I rely on my 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān]for news.
OF (28:21):
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for that, Astrid.
AP (28:23):
Thank you for having me, Oscar. OF
if there was one person that you know of,here in China, that you would recommend I
interview next, who would it be?AP: For my recommendation, this time, after
thinking a lot, I'm gonna recommend FredaFung, actually a wonderful human being that
I got to know in Shanghai. And currently she'sthe regional President and Managing Director
(28:48):
for probably one of the most admired organisationsin the world, Special Olympics. And the mission
of this organisation is to provide, like,year-round sports training and athletic competition
in a variety of Olympic-type sports for childrenand adults with intellectual disabilities.
And every time I hear Freda talking aboutit, she's so passionate and enthusiastic about
(29:11):
it. So I'm sure she will have so many storiesto share with you, and inspire other people
too.OF: That’s great. Oh, thank you so much,
I look forward to meeting Frieda.AP: Thank you.
OF (29:19):
And thanks so much for your time today. AP
[Outro]OF: So that was Astrid. I first met Astrid
outside a café down my street, she was havingdrinks with a Persian Armenian friend of mine,
Vaché. Vaché made the introduction, andthis is the result: a new friendship and a
new podcast episode. And that’s how thingswork around here, people are very generous
(29:43):
with their connections and open with theirsupport. But Vaché is especially like that,
so a special thanks to him.
As always, please check out the images associatedwith today’s episode on social media, it’s
@mosaicofchina_ on Instagram and @mosaicofchinaon Facebook, and for WeChat, add me on ID:
mosaicofchina and I’ll connect you to theWeChat group.
(30:04):
So this week there’s a Wikipedia image onwhere Armenia is in the world, in case you
might need a handy nudge about that; thereare photos of the Shanghai Symphony Hall,
it’s a beautiful building inside and out;there’s also a photo that I took in Hangzhou,
which ia Astrid’s favourite place to travelto in China. Astrid said that she loved 西湖
(30:24):
[Xīhú], this is “West Lake” it sitsin the middle of Hangzhou, and that’s what
the photo is of. What my photo does not includeis the other hundreds of Chinese tourists
who were just to the left, and to the right,and behind, and on top of where I was standing.
The thing that Astrid would miss the mostif she left China, she said 小笼包 [xiǎolóngbāo].
Those are the classic little shanghai dumplingsthat are filled with hot soup. And I’ve
(30:47):
posted a photo of those, they’re nice witha dash of vinegar. And, of course, her two
favourite WeChat stickers are up; and herfavourite restaurant, Sichuan Citizen; and
the final batch of photos are from her appearance- or rater multiple appearances - on that
Chinese TV show, it was called ‘生活大不同[shēnghuó dàbùtóng]’. Astrid mentions
the HSK test, that’s the name of the Mandarinlanguage proficiently test that is officially
(31:12):
recognised here in China. These days, there’sa points system for getting work permits,
and your HSK test result is part of this equation,alongside of course many other factors. The
‘H’ of the ‘HSK’, the ‘H’ means‘汉语 [hànyǔ]’, which is ‘Chinese’;
the ’S’ is ‘水平 [shuǐpíng]’,which is ‘Standard’ or ‘Level’; and
the ‘K’ is 考试 [kǎoshì], which is‘Test’. And there are six levels, HSK1
is the easiest, and HSK6 is the top.
Also on the subject of visas, Astrid mentionedto me after the interview that she was in
the first batch of graduates who could stayon in China after completing their studies.
Before that, you needed to leave the countryand then work somewhere else for a couple
(31:34):
of years before coming back. So she was ableto accept that job at the Shanghai Symphony
Orchestra. And in fact, her visa applicationwas ‘001’. So at the time she became a
big focus of debate on the whole value ofallowing young foreigners to stay and to work
in Shanghai. So that was part of her lifethat we didn’t cover in the interview, but
one thing that I thought was quite interesting.And also, another reminder that there you
(31:58):
have it, you know, despite being the youngestguest, there’s probably still another whole
episode’s worth of stories we could havecovered.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs; editingby Milo de Prieto; artwork is by Denny Newell;
and China technical support is from AlstonGong. If you like us, please rate and comment
on iTunes, or wherever you download this podcast.Thank you for listening this far, and see
(32:19):
you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com