094 - Building Better Mountain Bike Communities: SDMB's Approach to Trail Advocacy and Engagement (Guest: Ruth Cañamar, Vice President, SDMB) - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
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Josh (00:16):
brother, you sold me a new set of carbon wheels.
Yes, yeah, my first set.
That my big ass is tried out.
And uh, on the first ride theyblew up.
Yeah, is tried out.
And uh, on the first ride theyblew up.
Yeah, I believe it, I blew himup on the first ride, yep.
So I called the manufacturerand I said, hey, I blew up my
tires.
You know what they told me?
Good for you.
They said, uh, we can't helpyou, sir, not, not in this

(00:40):
department.
And I said, well, why not?
I said well, those types ofthings are handled by our spokes
person.

Dane (00:47):
It's just awful.
It's such a long joke for justto.
There's so many jokes in there,there's a lot of jokes.
Like you blew them up.
Hey, good for you.
What pressure did you put them?
At you know or something likethat, you know, but uh, okay,
yeah, all right, we need betterdad jokes.
Well, bring some.
I know I keep forgetting, I wasjust looking some up and then

(01:08):
I'll fumble them.
But yeah, I don't know howabout some mom jokes?

Ruth Canamar (01:12):
We should have a contest.
Oh, is there a thing?
Is there such a thing?
I think they'd scare you alittle.

Dane (01:16):
Oh, yeah, now I want to hear mom jokes.

Do you have a mom joke for us, ruth?

Dane (01:26):
No, not any appropriate ones, I would love it if the
people that listen, who havesome of our social media, give
us some cool.
If you've got good dad jokes.

Josh (01:35):
Actually, I do have a handful of people that send me
dad jokes from time to time it'susually like meme cuts.
I get that once a month ortwice a month or something.

Dane (01:43):
There's got to be better ones than we come up with.
Anytime I Google something, I'mpretty disappointed.

Josh (01:48):
Listen, man, I thought my spokesperson one was pretty good
.

Dane (01:50):
Come on, I don't know it's a unique bike one.
You know, my favorite one Isthe chicken one.
No, I mean yeah, but no, it'sthe microbiologist one.
Oh, dave Slagan, I rememberthat one.

Josh (02:01):
The Dave came up with it, you know why that was so good is
that.
He was like it was the end ofthe podcast.

Dane (02:05):
He delivered it really well too.
It was so perfect.

Josh (02:08):
I was like I wasn't expecting it.
I knew kind of halfway throughoh shit, he's on the joke right
now.

I do have a question, though.
Go for it.
What's your question?
I mean, somebody asked me he'slike, who wrote that intro?
It's awesome, isn't it?

Josh (02:20):
Oh my God, here we go, god damn it to you guys.

I've been set up.
I've been set up, oh man,that's no more.

Dane (02:29):
I'm telling you, dude, you should have been famous, oh my
God.

Josh (02:33):
It's not going to come from this podcast, I can tell
you that.
All right, so it's Thursdaynight, where the hell did our
winter go.

Dane (02:41):
We didn't have one.
I think we had a day.

Josh (02:45):
Yeah, it was cold.
I was putting my airconditioning on in my house.
I'm like Jesus.
It's February 2nd or something.

Dane (02:50):
We got one day of rain.

A day About 20 seconds.
Yeah, it was crazy.

Dane (02:57):
I hear next week maybe we'll get some rain, that'd be
cool.

Josh (02:59):
It'd also be good if we got some snow up in the
mountains.
I'd love to do somesnowboarding somewhere yeah,
yeah it's.

Dane (03:04):
Uh, yeah, I'm, I.
I hope it's just a late, uh, alate winter, late winter,
because at least we'll get.
The desert needs it.
So, yeah, we need the rain forsure.
Yeah, we really do.

Josh (03:13):
But uh, we are here on a thursday night, here in guru
bikes, the world famous gurubikes.
We're hearing that guru isbecoming more famous, infamous,
infamous I'd like to think thatthe Cog podcast had a little bit
to do with that.
Oh, heck yeah.
And we are with Ruth.
Ruth, you guys say your line.
I'm going to try it.
Then you can tell me if Iscrewed up, because I'm just
going to go straight up likewhite boy, like pronunciation,

(03:34):
right.
So Canamar, no.

Say it.

Dane (03:38):
Not even close, dude.
That's not it.

So the N has a tilde.

Josh (03:43):
A tilde.

And that makes it ñ, so it's caña.

Josh (03:48):
Caña mar, caña mar.

Dane (03:50):
Oh God, I'm going to butcher that.
I've already butchered it somuch.
Caña mar.

Josh (03:53):
Caña mar Caña, mar, okay, I'm close.

Dane (03:57):
He's got multiple languages and learns.
I'm just going to be awful,I'll be like Rocky Mountain Ruth
.

Josh (04:05):
Ruth rides a Rocky Mountain instinct but Ruth is
the vice president of theSonoran Desert Mountain Biking
Association here in SouthernArizona and Pima County and you
might remember we have haddifferent members from SDMB, the
Sonoran Desert Mountain Bikers,on multiple times.
So I think, going all the wayback to episode 52, we had Nat
Gordon, who's the currentpresident of SDMB, talking about

(04:26):
the restoration work that hedid on Mount Graham and that
amazing Graham Cracker ride,kind of in eastern Arizona.
It's 17 miles, 6,300 feet ofdescent.
If you like big mountain riding, it's a little raw, it's a
little scary, it's a whole lotof fucking awesome.

Dane (04:42):
A lot, it really is.
It's a whole lot of fuckingawesome.
Yep, yeah, so a lot really.
Yeah, it's a good oasis in thesummer.

So and I can say that I've ridden, you've ridden
the whole thing, you've riddenthe whole thing, the whole thing
yep, not all at once, butthanks to matt and thanks to
dave slagle, they, uh, theydefinitely said I could do it,
and and I'm uh proud to say thatI have done the graham cracker.
But in nice sections.

Josh (05:03):
Do they have snow?

Dane (05:04):
right now.

Josh (05:05):
Oh, you know, I don't even know.
I'm guessing they'd be similarto lemon.
I think there's a video streamfrom the, because Mount or
University of Arizona has atelescope up there right.
And so I could check and seefrom there.
I think they have a webcam.
You can look and see if there'ssnow, but I hadn't heard.
But, ruth, thank you for comingand spending an evening with us
thank you, pretty exciting tellus a little bit about you.

(05:28):
Tell us a little bit about stmb.
What's on your mind?

what's on my mind?
Well, um, stmb, um, well, uh,stmb is a non-profit
organization, um, and we aregeared to get more people, uh,
on bikes, on mountain bikes, onour wonderful trails here in
southern Arizona, and ourmission is to build and maintain
those trails and to do that,you know, with people that enjoy

(05:59):
being outdoors and thatunderstand that we try and do
this, you know, with this much,you, this much environmental
sense, where we're really tryingto not impact what's out there.
There's a lot of archaeologicalsites that we have here and we

(06:20):
want to protect those and wewant to be cognizant and educate
people on those, and we justwant people out enjoying our
trails.
Okay, yeah, so my goal your goalwhy I I came on.

Josh (06:31):
Yeah, why did you come on?

Not because I'm a bad-ass mountain biker, but I am
.

Josh (06:34):
Yeah, you rode the Graham cracker.
You're a bad-ass mountain biker.

I think so, and I met.
You know who I met?

Josh (06:41):
Who'd you meet?

Lacey, my wife, your wonderful wife.

Josh (06:44):
Yes, on Mount Graham.
Yes, was that when she went androde, when she did by herself
or when we were there together?
Do you remember?

I don't know if you were there, but you went
with her.
She was riding up the SwiftTrail, is that?

Josh (06:57):
right, okay, yep, swift Trail, yep.
She stopped to say hello andyou know, she's my little spirit
animal, she's awesome, she'sawesome, she's a honey badger,
for sure.

Dane (07:12):
She don't care.
I do identify as a honey badger, because I don't, you know what
.

I'm saying but anyway, I definitely started
riding at the age of 52.
No shit.

Josh (07:24):
Wow, 52.
No shit.

Dane (07:26):
Wow, wow, macro.

So I don't know much about bikes.
I just know that when I get ona bike, it makes me feel like a
12-year-old kid, and so the bikehas gotten me through a lot of
things, and I'm going to have abig birthday.

Josh (07:43):
Yes, Happy birthday, by the way, Thank you.
Are you going to do yourbirthday Miles?
I'm going to have a bigbirthday in a week or so.
Are you going to do yourbirthday Miles?

I'm going to be out at the 24-hour Well, kind of
yeah, so I don't know what I'mgoing to do with my you know I
don't really try and think a lotabout it, but I'm very grateful
to a mountain bike that isactually, I think, reversing my
age and making me maybe a littlemore fun, as my daughter likes

(08:08):
to say, like, get the stick outof your ass, I'm all about work.

Dane (08:12):
You can't have a stick in your ass and be on a saddle,
exactly.

Josh (08:16):
You could, but it wouldn't feel good.

So mountain biking has brought that fun and beer
to my life.
So I definitely, you know,enjoy my bike so much that I
decided, you know, to join SDMB.
And about three months after Ijoined SDMB I became an
executive board member and youknow it's just been the best

(08:41):
thing I've done, I think, sinceI've moved here.

Josh (08:44):
That's awesome.
So when did you join?
When did you join the board andwhen did you become the VP?

I'll tell you, I went to my first poker ride, um,
after I did some trail work anduh, I, uh, you know, read about
the poker ride and I thought,well, I don't race.
But somebody said, well, it'snot a race, race it's a ride
yeah it's a fun ride.
So I, I went with, uh, with somefolks, uh, the dirt divas, you
know and uh, we had a blast.

(09:10):
And then I, after I finished, II went out and looked at the
merch and I saw dave slagle andlisa slagle and they recruited
me to join sdmv and um.
That was in january and I thinkin March of 2001,.
I joined SDMB and by May I wasuh, that had to be 2021, uh,

(09:32):
2000.
Oh yeah, cause.

Josh (09:33):
I was like if you were 52 in 2001,.
Girl, there's something wrong.
I was like you're lookingawesome 2001 is actually when I
moved here when I moved to theold Pueblo.

But no, it was 2000,.
Yeah, 2021.
Yeah, okay, and so yeah, andthen I just kind of go all in.
You know, if I'm going to be ayou know part of this group, I'm
going to just jump on in.

Dane (09:56):
Have we talked about the poker ride?

Josh (09:58):
No, but that would be a good thing, cause that's one of
the things I want to talk about.
So, um, a few weeks ago, um,mountain cog went out and Dane
also was out there with guru Um,and we kind of we helped out
and I think maybe, uh, ruth cantalk us through like what, what
we did and how we helped out.
But it was just this amazingride so like, so like organized

(10:18):
social ride, um, with withgiveaways and it was free to the
public and it was just amazing.
It highlighted a lot of thelocal businesses.
Like everybody had a smile ontheir face.
Um, that's what I remember isjust everybody had a smile on
their face.
Um so maybe tell us a little bitabout the poker ad like what's
it like to ride that?

Well, um, it got me to uh to join SDMV.

Josh (10:43):
So that's how fun it is, so it's a good thing.

But I'll tell you, it was right after COVID, so
people were hungry to come outand ride.

Dane (10:50):
Yeah.

And that time I think there was about 75.
No, I think the year before itwas 75.
And then that year there wasabout 100 people or so or 120.
And it was just so much fun,you know, and you know I just I
fell in love with it and andthen, as soon as as I could
volunteer with it, you know,because Dave Slagle is the

(11:12):
events committee guy, so he'slike hey, I need, I need some
help with this.
And so I jumped on board andthe next year I decided, well,
I'm going to coordinate thesestations and I'm going to be,
you know, I'm going to run oneof the stations.
So Anna Noble, you know, shehelped me, she was injured.

(11:34):
So we had, I had my vuvuzelas Idon't know if you know what
those are- I don't, so what isthat?
When soccer, I don't know we hadthe, you know, back in 2014 or
so, when the US was, you know,winning, you know all of the

(11:54):
soccer right, you know, and theywere using in Colombia or
somewhere the bubuzuelas.

Dane (11:56):
Oh yeah, the big, the like .
Are they like trumpets, likeplastic trumpets, just the
plastic ones?
Yeah, you know, yeah.

So we ordered those.
That's awesome and we used totake them to the football games
at CDO and they were banned.
And then all of a sudden theywere banned, but I used to sit
with the kids and we were like,ooh you know, and so anyway, I
still have those, I took thoseand I still take them to every
poker ride now and I thinkpeople know that station, you
know, because you know they hearthe noise and I also, you know,

(12:26):
bring other things to thestation and so, anyway, so, and
then that year, I think you know, we increased the numbers and
then this past year, I decidedthat, you know, we should
probably invite not just, do youknow, not just have SD&B board
members running the stations,but you know, really this is
about the community and and andthe bike shops.

(12:48):
And you know, torca was outthere, you were out there.
We had um, uh, tj from El Tour,um, you know, um, and, and it
was so much fun cause they wantto, you want to give back to the
community.
We do, and this ride is asocial ride.
We don't charge for it becausethis is our way to get back to
the community to say, hey, let'scome out, have fun.

(13:08):
You know it's the end of the ofthe of the year and the
beginning of a new year.
Let's, let's do what we'd liketo do best.
And and I'm telling you, everybike shops get upset if we don't
ask them to donate.

Josh (13:22):
Yes, they do.
Sorry to any shops that didn'tget asked.

Exactly, and a lot of shops are like, oh yeah,
what did?

Josh (13:28):
guru give you yeah, so that.

So there's a competition there.
So it's nice, because then youjust pay five bucks for a raffle
ticket.
All that money, it's a, it's afundraiser as well for us.
You know, um, we have foodtrucks, you know, this year we
had brian vance and and yeahanceyeah with Jersey Girl With.
Jersey Girl and we have.

Dane (13:46):
Pizza Place at Family Pizza and it was great Jaime's
out with the Peddler on the Path.

Josh (13:51):
Peddler on the.

Dane (13:51):
Path.
Coffee With coffee.
Shout out to Jaime.

And we just wanted this to be a community event.
And we'll make a few dollarswith the raffle, but it's more
just to bring everyone together.
And this year was great.
Next year, dane, I think wewant you to set up some, some
things, some jumps for the kidsbecause, we're no longer letting
people park right up to wherewe start so that was I got
yelled at yes, yeah, I know Iwas bringing the beard I got

(14:18):
yelled at.

Josh (14:18):
Can I?

Dane (14:19):
can I say something?
So I got called out on this onebecause, uh, the station ahead
of me had a ton of stuff theywere giving out I can't talk
about on the air, and thestation past me had, like
margaritas or what did they have?

Mai Tais, mai Tais .

Dane (14:37):
And like grilled pineapple and everybody's like dude, you
didn't have anything.
I just want everyone to knowthat I had my normal coffee
donuts and cookies.
They just were so good thateverybody took them all.

Josh (14:51):
We had donuts and candy at home, yeah.

Dane (14:53):
But like Jennifer Campbell had like, did she have the Lays
she had a bunch of stuff too.

No, I think that's Leo Armory with Joni Dean, and
that's who I don't know.
It was close between herstation and my station.

Dane (15:07):
Next year.
I've got to get my game on.
Let's just put it that way Ican't show up with just
Starbucks coffee, donuts andcookies anymore.
I gotta, I gotta, step it up.

Josh (15:15):
So let's talk, like from the rider perspective, because
we've talked a lot about it.

But like folks like don't even know, like, what
a poker ride is.
Like, yeah, what is a pokerride?
Well, um, you know, you buy,you, you, you don't buy after
you get.
You get a uh, a scorecard,scorecard yep, next year,
hopefully we're gonna goelectronic you know nice that'll
be easier for us because it's alot of counting yeah um, and,

(15:40):
and, if you don't know, I don'tknow anything about poker, so I
don't do any of the counting oranything.
But anyway, you get a card, yougo to all the stations and then
you play your best.
You know the best.

Josh (15:52):
So there was what 18, 12?
.

No, we have 10.
10 stations 10 stations.

Josh (16:00):
So basically I so we should explain what a station is
.
Go ahead, yeah, go for it.

Dane (16:03):
So a station is yeah, go for it.
So a station is on the trail.
Somebody has set up a table orwhatever.
I mean I did it with Mike oneyear and we didn't have a table.
It was just us in a couple ofchairs, and that was the first
year, second year and itbasically along the trail.
People set up and then theyhave a deck of cards and they're
that's called a station.
So like it's gotten elaboratenow because we I had a.

(16:25):
I had a, I had a fireplace andlike armchairs last year.
But yeah, so that's what astation is.
Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, and so the goal is, you know, I mean you
can go just to five stations andget your five cards, or you
know, some people are prettycompetitive, you know, and
they'll ride quickly and gettheir cards and then they'll
come back and then hang out withsome of you know some of the
stations are cooler than others,but yeah, so we try and have
something some treats for youand some photos.
You know, I have like cut outcards of you know, playing cards

(17:00):
and people you know take thepictures on there.
But anyway, they just have a,you know, have a friendly
competition with each other andit's not just about mountain
bikers.

Josh (17:08):
We have runners yeah, that was crazy.
Trail runners.

Yeah, the trail runners helped out.

Josh (17:12):
They volunteered at your station, station 1.
Yep.

Caitlin, yep, caitlin.
So we're really trying to makethis not just about mountain
bikers.
Anyone who wants to hike or runcan come out and participate.

Josh (17:25):
You come back at the end.

Dane (17:26):
Well, so first you go to station, to station.
And when you go to the stationyou pull a card out and then
they write it on your card, andso each station you're going to
you're getting a different card,a club's hearts, spades,
whatever, and then the number Igave so many sevens away.
It was the weirdest thing, Likewe kept taking bets on.

Josh (17:47):
If I'd pull a seven out, like I probably shouldn't admit
this, but we had one card in ourdeck that had a black mountain
card cog sticker in it no way onit and it was.
It was the ace of spades andand like it was so funny when
people would come up and be likewhat's that black card?
I'm like I don't know, and tosee how many people would
actually take it.
It was about 50-50.
I think, we gave out a lot oface of spades at the Mountain

(18:09):
Cocks stand.

Dane (18:12):
We didn't do anything weird, I just was keeping track.
It was like sevens and eightsor something.
I can't remember what the twowere, but there was two in
particular.
We started writing it down wasso so common.
Yeah, it was really weird.
So statistically it was.
It'd be fun if you didstatistics, but uh, probably not
, never mind and then, like alot of local businesses and bike

(18:33):
companies, donated swag yes notjust swag, but like good shit.
So to finish the ride.
You get your card filled andthen you get back to the start
and that's where you're talkingabout everybody starts telling
food trucks and the prizes andmusic and like uh, we had al was
doing some of the djing oh yeahyeah, and giving out the prizes

(18:54):
, but yeah, so, um, so we have alot of volunteers that help us
with the counting, with, help uswith all the swag.

You know and just, and, and you know, as you win,
board members get to walk you,to go get your your prizes.
So that's fun, um, and yeah, soyou get to hang out.
So it's really an event.
We start about seven, you getback at noon and then we
normally end up around 2 pm.
So come prepared, bring yourkids.
We're really wanting to, youknow, have families that can

(19:22):
come.

Dane (19:22):
I think we had nick yeah, nick brought his kids, his kids
and my daughter and yourdaughter was out there, and so
they had a different route.

and then you know it it was just, you know, really
fun, lots of fun.
And and I actually was atSweetwater this weekend riding
and I had a group of riders andthey said you know why?
Why can't, why can't you dothis twice a year?

Dane (19:42):
Well, we were thinking the same thing you know, I think we
should.

Josh (19:45):
And yeah, or a variant of something you know like.

Dane (19:49):
I just I, you know the party uh, a group ride.
It was really fun.
No racing, yeah, it does it's.
It wasn't about egos you know,it was really fun.

What about a?

Josh (20:03):
scavenger hunt at McKenzie how do?

Dane (20:07):
you do a scavenger hunt in the desert very carefully okay,
go get a rock.

Josh (20:13):
You're looking for a rock screw you for poo pooing my.

Dane (20:16):
I'm just saying that's probably why I don't do
scavenger.

It's the most dangerous scavenger hunt yes, it
is.

Josh (20:24):
If you get bit by a rattlesnake, it's your fault.
It's in the liability form,right, I wonder?

Dane (20:28):
if you could do like a geocaching one, like where you
have to hit certain points andthen write down on your card
what's in the geo and then putit back and then go.
That'd be kind of cool.

Josh (20:40):
It can be a sca like what did you find?
Or something like that, so theydon't have to be digging around
and or trivia Like you knowlike you could do something play
on like green tree, you know.

Dane (20:49):
Find a green tree, you know.

It's called a palo verde.

Dane (20:53):
I know, but that's that's what I mean, something I don't
know, palo verde, it's just,it's fun.
You know the idea that it's nota race, the up and coming thing
.
I think a lot of people aregetting tired of races.
I, racing can be fun.
My daughter started racing.
I think it's really fun.
Uh, we've got the.
Uh, anna and a lot of the theEast siders are are getting into

(21:15):
racing.
Um and Cynthia is doing great,you know.
So there's a bunch of peopleout racing and it's fun.

They have a team for the 24.

Dane (21:23):
Yeah, I know, at 24 is next, not this weekend but next
weekend, and so racing is stillfun, but I think that party and
that you know not taking it soserious you know, let's just all
get together and have somethingorganized to ride our bike.

It's more than just a ride, though.

Josh (21:39):
Yeah, it's more than just come out and ride.

It's about community and I think it was so
nice to see all the other bikeshop owners, the TORCA board
members, that were there.
It was just nice A time that weall get to chat and get ideas
about what else we want to do inthis community and it brings
everybody together.

Dane (21:58):
A lot of the people kind of get in their own groups and
do their own thing, but itbrought everybody together.
I saw the Lemonheads, I saw theAddicts out there, I saw SDMB
and Torca, like you said.
I see El Pueblo and Lighting.

Josh (22:11):
Divas.
These are all like eitheradvocacy groups or social ride
groups that are throughout ourlocal area.

Dane (22:18):
here we usually hang out in their own little cliques, but
everybody came together for it.
It was really cool.
You see the downhillers, yousee the cross-country runners,
you see the cross-country people.
You know everything.
So, it's really cool.

And the little kids and the kids.
Don't forget the kids.

Josh (22:33):
They felt like they were, you know just rocking and
rolling, nick with his daughteron that pole behind I know, so
funny she's like charlotte,charlotte, yeah, yeah, she's a
trooper man.

Dane (22:45):
I'd like to put a gopro on there and just see how much she
bobs around, because yeah I gota bone to pick with you on your
picture taking, by the way, ohwhy she put a picture of you and
me hugging oh yeah, yeah,everybody loved it I know, did
you see?
I was standing on the curb thebromance.

Yeah, that's.
My favorite part of that is I'mlike look, I was standing on
the curb.

Dane (23:01):
The bromance yeah, that's.
My favorite part of that is I'mlike look, I'm standing on the
curb so I can reach.
That's so funny.

Josh (23:06):
So what was it like to organize it though?
So that's kind of like what theevent was like, but what was it
like to organize it If you're?
You know, like 30% of ourlisteners in Tucson most of them
are outside of Tucson.
If other folks are thinkingabout putting this together,
like give them the playbook,like how do you set this up?

well, um, I think one have a great board, that uh
we are?
We're a bunch of slackers.
We use a slack app tocommunicate we do, and so we, we
get to communicate there.
Uh, really well, we zoom um andand we just, you know what
makes it easy is like all of the, you know, like literally the

(23:40):
bike shop, bike shop saying, hey, you have poker, like we have
something to donate.
So that makes it a lot easier.
Because we know we're alwaysasking and everyone's always
asking.
But you know it's it's it thatmade it a lot easier.
And just, you know, reallyreaching out and having new
folks, like having TJ, you knowfrom from El Tour, you know it's
just nice to have him there.
Having Torka out there, tour,you know it's just nice to have

(24:01):
him.
They're having Torca out there.
You know, having Mario fromTucson, I mean, yeah, you know,
and he's got some great ideas.
He wants to work with us, withthe kids and stuff.
It was just I, you know theseare all because of that I'm
meeting more people.
So to me it's just I just getlike just so excited about it.
Doesn't feel like volunteerwork, you know, because I have a
, really I have a full-time joband then I have another real
time job after my job.

Josh (24:22):
And.

I like this one a lot you know, but I just it
makes me like really talk to youknow I'm really an introvert.
I know it's a lot of peopledon't know that, but I so it.
It really, you know, makes meget out and talk to people.

Dane (24:35):
One of the things.

I said when I joined SDMB is like I's like I
don't ask for things, I don'tlike to sell things.
I can sell an idea, I can bringpeople together, but I don't
want to call Dane and say, can Ihave a bike to raffle?

Josh (24:50):
I don't like to do that.

It's tough, but there's good people on our board
that do that really well, butfor me, I think that's what
makes it easier, but it is timeconsuming, yep, you know, and
just having I mean I think thisis the third one I've worked on,
and so it just makes it, youknow, a lot easier, and I'm good
about saving everything andorganizing everything on our
Google Drive, so I think thatmakes it a lot easier, but yeah,

(25:13):
I mean, if anyone has aquestion, definitely call me.

Josh (25:17):
It starts with having the course mapped out right oh yeah,
you got to know like you got tohave a facility that's got like
ample parking, which you know.

You guys picked tucson mountain park, which was
awesome, yeah yep, and, and thatthat's another thing, working
with the, with, with the tucsonmountain park, the, the pima
county, the city of tucson,getting the permits, yeah, so,
so it's gotten easier for us toget the permits, um, and then we
have, you know, people likepeople like Kent, who's on the
board, who likes to, you know,map out the ride and pick out
the stations, and so, you know,everyone contributes to it.

(25:48):
But, yeah, definitely you dohave to make sure that you have
those permits.
Another thing that some people,if you want to put something in
your community, we do haveinsurance, we have to have
insurance to put these rides on.
And I know some folks ask, likegosh, you know, why do you?
Why do you have a membership?
Aren't you a social, you know,riding group?
it's the opposite, it is youknow, we, we have a membership,

(26:10):
it's 40, it's 40, and you get alot for the 40, and one of which
is having insurance.
So you know, and the city andthe county, they all have
insurance, but we also insurance, we have to have insurance to
put something out.
You know, organized like thisand it's hefty, it is hefty.
So your $40, I know people saywell, what does the $40 go to?

(26:31):
Well, it pays for that.
It pays for our you knowwebsite.
It pays for you know the pop-up.
It pays for you know the toolsthe tools, the tools that we are
for you know we do we do trailbuilding.
We have a uh, a trailer that westore this.
So that's where some of yourmoney is going, you know, so

(26:52):
that we are able to, you know,get to our.

Josh (26:55):
You guys don't have a paid executive director at this
point.
No, no, every single person isa volunteer.

Exactly, we had one for a little bit and that
was Evan, and Evan did a.
You know, I mean, he's awesome,people know him.
Um, he, he didn't feel that.
You know that it was.
You know it was a good thing.
You know, I think he he, he youknow, thought the money should
stay with the organization andhe just did it for a little bit
as a paid executive, but he wasthe president for STMB for a

(27:21):
long time and did a lot for thiscommunity.

Dane (27:23):
I think he did a lot and I've said this before, I feel
like he did a lot for the Tucson.
I think he earned his money,cause it wasn't a lot, you know
it wasn't like it wasn't his.
It wasn't his his main job oranything but that was a high,
that was.

Josh (27:37):
That was like a high point for like new trail development
in Tucson.
Right there's a lot of trailsystems that got built and put
in place during the time that hewas an executive director.
I have to imagine that that wasa big part of it.

Dane (27:49):
It's the fact that he had, you know, he dedicated more
time, he used the money that hewas getting and actually used it
.
You know what I mean.
Like he put it towards the goaland that was.
It was noticeable, and so I wasalways happy about that, like I
.
I like evan he's a great guyand I've been happy with that.
I anytime you have a bunch ofvolunteers there, you know that

(28:10):
the fact that they'revolunteering they're amazing
people like their hearts are inthe right place and they're
trying to help, but they alsohave to pay their bills and
they've got all these otherthings and it's like hard to
split their time and everythingand no matter how good they are,
it's hard to put a ton intosomething.

Josh (28:24):
Wouldn't it be great if Evan came back to Tucson?
Is he coming back?
I can't, I can't, I can'tpublicly say that.

Wouldn't it be great if?

Josh (28:31):
he was.

And that's you know.
I mean, I think our board ismade up of, you know, a good
number of people who are alsoretired, are immediate in a past
, president Kirk, he, you knowhe he's an archeologist as well,
so he was really knowledgeable.
He is really knowledgeable andbecause of all of his work, I
think and and not you know,knowledge of you know how to

(28:54):
work with the land managers, howto work with the mayor of you
know, say, or Valley, you know.
You know that that really issomething that is needed because
a lot of us don't have the timeto go meet.
You know at the hours thatthese folks can meet or go ride
and take them to some of thesites you know that need to be

(29:14):
preserved, and so having peoplewho have the time to do that
during regular working hours isawesome, and having the
knowledge and just you know,able to tell our story and say
you know, it's not just aboutmountain biking.
I mean, I know we all want tosay, it's all about mountain
biking but there's just so muchmore, you know, with riding your
bike, building community andhaving something that's

(29:37):
sustainable.
That's going to be there foryears and years and years.
You know.

Dane (29:40):
People don't look at like what's behind the scenes, what
it takes to get everything done.

It's boring sometimes.

Dane (29:46):
And they kind of sometimes , you know, get gripey you know
like about stuff, becausethey're not really thinking
about all of the cogs in thebackground that they can't
really see.
And they're just like why don'tyou do more rides?
And you're like wait a minute.

Josh (29:58):
Just the amount of work that goes into just trail
maintenance, like brushing, abrushing trail system.

Dane (30:03):
I mean.

Josh (30:03):
I've probably I mean I've probably put a hundred hours in
this.

Dane (30:06):
Well, that's one layer.
You go next to the layer likeRuth's talking about.
You need to make sure you haveinsurance, you need to make sure
you have tools.
Then the layer beyond that youneed to go, get permits and make
sure the person who's justdoing the trail maintenance may
only see the first layer.
And there's so much more.
And our advocacy groups areI've said this before they're

(30:27):
the ones doing all of that, andthe biggest thing that we can do
as riders is appreciate it Likethat's the least you can do,
right.

And become a member.

Dane (30:35):
Becoming a member is the next level, right?
So appreciating it, thenbecoming a member, then member
then getting involved, thenvolunteering and then kind of
leading something.
Those are all the, the layersthat you can do as a as a rider
to help out and there's so much.

And you know pima county has an awesome trail, um,
uh, building and maintenancecourse and lacy did it.
You know, I did it recently anduh, saw our torca guys out
there as well, and and that is arequirement that the county has
If you're going to work outthere, you know, and so you have
to have someone who iscertified and then you can lead
a group and and it's it's justneat, you know, just to learn,

(31:10):
you know how to work on a, on a.
I mean it's it to me, it'sphysical, it's it's neat.
You know, my favorite I'm thisprobably the smallest always
person on the on the trail crew.
But my favorite is the pickmanic you know?

Josh (31:23):
Oh, that's my favorite.
That's your low, low center ofgravity.

And it gives me a pick, like a giant, giant pick,
and it's heavy, but you know youdon't have to use exert a lot
of you know, it looks like, youknow it looks pretty cool.
But as a short person, you know, or it it?
It really gives me more bangfor a buck.
And believe me, at Mount Grahamwhen we were hiking up and down
like two, three miles in, itwas not the easiest tool to, but

(31:48):
I love it Like don't touch myyou know, that's my favorite.

Josh (31:51):
That is my least favorite tool oh really, Is the Picmatic.

Dane (31:55):
So we did the trail maintenance out at Sweetwater.
And every time I take Jilly outthere or Turner like I ride
that section and I go see that Idid that.
And that's the thing abouttrail advocacy, you know, and
maintenance and building, andall of that is like it's amazing
how much it means to you.
Down the road when youcontribute, you look back and

(32:16):
you're like I did that.
I never did that before.

I rode the trail and just was like well, that's
how poker was because the firstpoker I had, just you know, I
decided, you know that I wasgoing to do trail work because
of my neighbor, uh, max shemwellwho passed away but he was
gonna.
I was supposed to volunteer withhim and he got, he was ill and
uh and he couldn't.
So I promised that I would doit and that's what I did and I I

(32:39):
met neil out out there and Imet Evan before I even joined
STMB and I worked on on theportal in in uh in the Explorer
and when I did, uh, when I wrotemy uh first poker and my only
poker, I'm like, oh my gosh, Iworked on that.

Dane (32:54):
I worked on that.
It really was.
You know, it gives you such agreat feeling.
I I really stress thateverybody who rides a trail
should go out and do it at leastonce.
Uh, once a year at the minimum,and then, uh, when you get that
feeling, you'll get almostaddicted and want to do it more.

Josh (33:09):
So your favorite tool is the picmatic.
What's your favorite tool, ding?

Dane (33:12):
uh, I like the mcleod um I super versatile really you can
do so much with it.
I like to move dirt, I like todig dirt.
It does both.
I, you know, I think that's my,my favorite.
I've chopped down little bushesto get them out of the way with
it.
You know, probably not in thenicest way, but it was
therapeutic.

Well, and I I do want to shout out, and now that
I'm thinking about trail work,evan, you know I talked to Evan
and I and cause I was the onlywoman that went in, you know,
for my first, um, trail work dayand I said you know, evan, I
really want to have a day outhere with just women.
You know, can you, can you dothat for me?
And he goes, yeah, and we did it, and we had like 15 women to

(33:53):
come out and it was just so muchfun, cause you know I want
women to not be afraid ofmountain biking or trail work,
cause it's fun and and it's just, you know you get so much pride
out of doing the work and youknow, and you're going to learn
a lot, and not just for trail.
But you can do some of thiswork at home, you know, if you
want to garden, but I mean I'mbuilding trails at my house,
yeah, yeah and and so anyway, Imean, we do have those days um

(34:15):
uh set up.
You know where we can have, youknow, trail days that are just
for that where women can comeout right we have some social
rides that are just for womenand some trail days that are
just for women.
We have some skills clinicsthat are just for women.
We can get into a little bitmore if you want.

Dane (34:30):
Yeah, I love the uh, so I don't know.
We you know, josh and I havetalked about this before how we
really want to see more womenget into the sport.
We want to do whatever we canto support that.
I do feel like it's working notus in particular, but I feel
like I see way more out there.
It could be because I'm ridinga lot with my daughter, uh, I
don't know.

Josh (34:48):
Sometimes it could be because I'm looking for it, but
it could be because homegrown iskicking ass and jody is kicking
ass.

Dane (34:56):
Yeah, there's.
There's all these people we'vegot like some women's clinic
stmb the dirt, the dirt divas atold Pueblo, Like there's, I
just feel, like Tucson will ladyshredders, the lady shredders
there's.
There's so many moreorganizations than there used to
be, Cause I remember a Varneywho does lady shredders, I
believe.
Um, she used to do the bell joyride and that was the only one

(35:17):
that I remember at that time.
You know, One that I rememberat that time, you know, and I
mean when I was racing downhill,we had stickers on our bikes
that said ride like a girl.
And because we would ride withlike a couple of the pros and I
used to just envy that I couldbe as fast as Melissa Buell, you
know.
So it's just it's grown becauseback then there would be one

(35:39):
girl at South mountain that wewould ride with.
And I go there now and I seethem all over the place and I
just I do see the progress,which is great.

And that's why that was one of my my
motivations of joining SDMV isbecause I bought my first
mountain bike when I turned 52,uh eight years ago, wow and um
and I did notice.

Josh (36:02):
There's no way.
You were 52 eight years ago.
Yeah, there's no way.
She's just totally pulling yourleg.
That's bullshit.
I do not believe that.

Dane (36:08):
She just turned like 50.
Yeah, yeah, right.

Josh (36:12):
Well, that bike does.
I'm not trying to like be nice,seriously, I will be 60 years
old.

Shut the front door.

Dane (36:20):
You know what Between her?
And Bev and a lot of ladiesthat I've ridden with it's
mountain biking keeps you young.

I think so.
I really do, I think so I think, that you know, there you go.

Josh (36:30):
I think so, Ruth.
I was putting you at early 40s.

Oh, thank you.
Honestly, I'm not trying to.

Josh (36:44):
Dane, I was putting you at like late 60s.

Hey, if I shave this off, I look like a shaven
60-year-old.
I don't even know where to gowith that.
I'm just going to leave thatalone.
Yeah, I'm going to just skipover that.
No, really it's true.
Sorry, yeah, sorry, nate Ididn't even know that that was
perfect.

Josh (37:01):
I just push buttons, random buttons.

But when I came on the board and you know, when I
was out writing, you know, I didsee, you know, just more males,
not not a lot of women, not nota lot of people of color either
, you know, and I'm like, ok,well, you know, that's the thing
is that I'm going to to get onthis board and I'm going to make
sure that our board is morerepresentative of our community,
and I think we have four womenon the board now.

Josh (37:28):
Yep.

That's awesome and so it's a great board and one
of the things I'm doing to Iwrite with Fuga Fuga on Sundays.
Once a month I go out there.

Josh (37:42):
I don't know what Fuga is.

Fuga is Familias Unidas Ganando Acesibilidad,
which is Families United GainingAccessibility, and it's in Ward
1, and that's with Lane SantaCruz, and so one of the things
that they're doing is trying toget more people on bikes.

Josh (38:04):
Okay.

And riding less, driving, okay, and having you
know people riding, you know,downtown.
So one of our goals is to helpget people who are riding
downtown to also have an easyaccess into Tucson Mountain Park
.
You know, and so we are workingwith, you know, different
groups and and so I decided youknow I'm going to go.

(38:25):
This is a group of people thatdon't normally mountain bike, um
, and, and some of them do, andso I'm like, you know, I
mountain bike and I want to seemore of you people mountain
biking, you know, and ridingyour backyard.
You know this is, this is amountain.
You know these mountains that Iride an hour to get here.
You know, you, you, you shouldbe, you know, using your
mountain bike so we can getmountain bikes to you.

(38:45):
And so we have ideas that wewant to work with some of this.
You know, with with Jody um,with with girls and with young,
you know, um, uh, kids, you know, after school, maybe, with with
Mario, with Droopy, I thinkhe's one of the leaders of of
the ride um, and, and he's ateacher and he has an
after-school program formountain bikes.
So there's so much that we cando and and I'm just so excited

(39:06):
I'm like I'm all over the place.
I definitely want to just workwith everybody in town.
Adaptive bikes, you know?
I mean that's that's anothergroup that I'm interested.
So there's so much to do.
We want more people in thecommunity to join sdmv, because
we have different tasks for you,different jobs, different
committees that you can be on.
We just want more people onbikes.
Less people driving, morepeople on bikes.

(39:27):
We'll be happy.

Dane (39:28):
We saw an adaptive bike at Sweetwater.
Remember that we did.
Yeah, that's Greg.
I just saw him on Saturday andwe've been in communication he
was awesome.

And you know who's really an expert too, is Jody.

Josh (39:38):
Oh yeah expert too, you know, is jody.
Oh yeah, so jody partners withsdmb, so she runs our.
So we're talking about jodybart.
Jody bart, she's been anendurance, she's been a guest on
our podcast before go go grow,girl, grow, yep yep and uh, she
just does great for thecommunity and she's just such an
awesome person.

But she definitely , you know, wants to, to, to
work with us, not just with, youknow, um, girls and and young
and the youth, but also withadaptive bikes.
So that's another thing.
Hopefully we'll be seeing alittle bit more of from SDMB.

Josh (40:09):
That's a key part, so of our proposal for Colossal Cave,
which is like flow trails.
That's one of the things we'reworking on.
One of the key aspects there isthat it has green, blue and
black flow trails and that thegreen and blue are set up to be
adaptive and the climb trail aswell.
Um, the black, I don't know,and maybe greg can help advise

(40:30):
us because I'm not sure aboutbig drops and stuff like that,
like how that works yeah but Ithink for sure on the green and
blue trails we can.
We can make those wide enoughand set them up for for adaptive
um riders, um riders and andoffer a whole new experience not
just to all the mountain bikersin Tucson but to the adaptive
riders in Tucson.

Dane (40:46):
Yeah, it's the inclusivity is great.
So, uh, it's bringing morepeople into the sport.
I, I do love it.
I feel like, uh, mountainbiking in general is like that,
like our personalities are kindof drawn to it and it kind of
brings that out in our person.

Josh (41:01):
Is that true?
You think the bro culture isreally attuned to that?
I'm going to challenge you onthat.

Dane (41:06):
Yeah, so I I think there is always a little segment right
, uh, of uh people that get inthere, click and do their thing.
I see it, you know, I see itwith the groups in town.
There's some that are morewelcoming than others and, uh,
there's always the kind of, likeyou know, you get the upper
echelon of the speed.
Demons.
That kind of are, like you know, trying to, you know, jockey

(41:26):
for who's the fastest or doesthe biggest stuff, or whatever.
But in general, mountain bikersare pretty much say hi, they
stop and help each other.
If there's a problem there's,it's just a friendly atmosphere.
If you show up at a parking lotin a city you don't know and
it's a mountain biking parkinglot, and you ask, hey, can I tag
along?
Most of the time they'll sayyeah, and if they don't, it's a

(41:49):
rarity, you know.
But there's other cultures andother types of cycling.
You know whether it's maybe wedo a lot of triathlons and I
don't think triathlons areunfriendly in any way.
They're really nice.
You do a lot of triathlons.
No, god, no, if you see merunning, you should start
running.
Can you dig it?
No, but we help a lot oftriathletes and I love

(42:10):
triathletes.
Triathletes are superhardworking.
They're really dedicated,really goal-orientated, they set
goals and they go for them.
But a lot of times I see thatthey train by themselves.
They do it on their own, maybeto fit time or what have you,
but they're real dedicated tothat training.
And then road bikers there'sall kinds of spectrum on that
too.
You have the loop riders to theamateur pros and the wannabe

(42:35):
pros and then the actual pros.
And we get all that in Tucsonbecause of our amazing road
biking opportunitiesopportunities if you've ever
ridden up mount lemon on a roadbike and, uh, you're sucking
wind and kind of hating lifebecause that's how I feel when
I'm climbing mount lemon andyou're your head's down and
you're tired and you're focusedon your breathing and you're

(42:56):
just trying to make it 26 milesup straight up to 10 000 feet.
If, If somebody waves and sayshey, you may not say hey back.

Josh (43:04):
And I'm just going to say the only reason to ride a bike
up Mount lemon is to do aself-supported lemon drop.
No, no, no.

Dane (43:10):
It can be really fun.
You know, I don't know if I'vesaid this on the podcast, but we
used to have friends that werehill climbers and they hated
coming down Mount lemon on theroad yeah it.
And they hated coming downMount Lemmon on the road yeah,
it's sketchy.
And we would do a key transfer.
And so what we would do is wewould drive up and park the car,
they would ride up with a setof keys and then we would bomb

(43:30):
down with a set of their keys,and then we wouldn't have to do
a shuttle.
No joke, I'm not kidding.
And because they didn't, theyactually I think there could be
a shuttle service for takingroadies down, because they love
the climb, you know, they loveto get up, they love the
exercise, they love the this isinteresting, a reverse shuttle A
reverse shuttle.
I've said this forever we need ashuttle company that starts at

(43:51):
the bottom, drops off mountainbikers as they go, then hangs
out at the top where they canpick up the road bikers and then
drive them back down.
Now a lot of road bikers lovecoming down at 45, 50 miles an
hour, so, but there's a lot thatdon't.
They don't want that, theydon't want to be on their brakes
the whole time, you know.

Josh (44:08):
Yeah, it's scary.
Yeah, it's definitely scary, sobut yeah.

Going back to this community.
I mean, I think it's it's youknow, it was the best thing.

Dane (44:20):
Yeah.

I joined old Pueblo and the dirt divas, and
now the dirt divas have theirown um, their own page on on um.

Josh (44:29):
Facebook.

Facebook, and so they don't get lost, they don't
get lost in the shuffle and it'sjust grown you know, and and so
there it's really given a voicefor people who maybe wouldn't
have posted a ride on the open,but they're now.
I mean my friend, joanne fromCanada, you know she's leading,
you know some, some rides, youknow, through Dirt Diva and
website, you know, and it's,it's just really nice to see

(44:52):
that.
You know people are sowelcoming.
I mean, I'm not afraid, I'm notembarrassed, you know to to
ride with.
You know we start.
We always say you know it's ano-drop, no-drop, and I'm
telling you it is a no-dropgroup and some of the fastest
riders that I've ridden withwith Old Pueblo, you know, some
days you just don't feel likebeing up at the front or you
can't be up in the front like me, but you know and you can't

(45:13):
even be in the middle group.

Josh (45:14):
What's it like at the front?

Dane (45:22):
I've never.

The one time I was at the front you were on this
ride.
It was a night ride up atSweetwater and I'm like I take
blood in my mind and he's like,oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
just you, you're fine.
I'm like no.

Josh (45:28):
And it's like I was sucking.

But I was behind Luke and the boys but I quickly
went another direction after wegot to the top because I thought
I was dying but but, um, butanyway, I mean I, I, I just love
that.
You know, these are people whoride really well, but they don't
mind saying let me session thiswith you or after the ride.
Let's go back and do the youknow.
Let's go down lost arrow or up.
You know a lost arrow and it'sjust yeah, sometimes.

Dane (45:53):
Sometimes you got to shut the Strava off and just have fun
.

Josh (45:56):
You're a Strava hater.

Dane (46:02):
I Strava hater, you know, I got Jilly.
You got Jilly on it Mountain.
Cog got Jilly on it, MountainCog yes, I got Jilly on Strava
because she's racing now and soshe is loving it Like we get
done with practice, and I gopick her up and she's like let's
go do another lap, you and me,and I'm like yeah, See her today
, my 15-year-old.

Josh (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, scanner today, my 15 year old.
Yeah, yeah, he texted me fromschool.
Dad, I want to do a mountainbike ride today.
Nice, I was like yeah, doinglike the happy dance and then
you gotta get back out, okayI'll see if I can make that
happen.
I'm not sure.
Let me check my schedule.
I'm like.
I'm like, dan, I can't do.

Dane (46:32):
The podcast scanner wants to ride it's true I mean that's
kind of the best feeling whenyou can share, you know your
what you love with somebody elseand they actually love it back
and so that's the.
I mean you can take that fromjust your kids to the whole
community, and I think themountain bike community tends to
do that almost automatically.

(46:53):
You know, there's definitelyexceptions, there's definitely
jerks in everything.

But for the most part I think that the majority
of the mountain bikers arereally welcoming and they want
to see people get into it.

Josh (47:09):
You know and we have a nice segue to uh stmb's be cool
campaign.

Yes, part of our advocacy is that we we have been
really, you know, working um inthis community to instill just
the bike, you know, a bikeetiquette, you know, and it's
really just don't be an asshole,you really just be courteous If
you're going up or down.
I mean we.
There are rules of you know whowho has the right away.
But you know, you need to readthe you know who's on the trail
and get.

(47:31):
You know, get, get off yourbike and give them the right
away.
You're on a bike man.

Josh (47:34):
You know right, cause they're cause they're doing more
of the work right.

Dane (47:41):
Here's my official.
Rule is just be cool.

Just be like seriously like be nice.

Dane (47:50):
And if you're bombing down and some guy going up is like
seize that and moves out of theway and lets you go, make sure
you're thankful as you go by andsay, hey, thank you.
And same thing If you're going,you know, um up and somebody
stops you know, uh, and gets outof the way so that you can go
pie them.
You know, just say thank you.

You know, there's one more behind me, you know
because they're being courteousand getting off of the trail,
you know.
And so, uh, it's always nice tobe courteous, and you know, and
somebody, sometimes somebody isrude and you, just, you know,
have a great hike or a greatride.
Yes.

Dane (48:23):
Kill them with kindness.
Kill them with kindness.

Josh (48:24):
And you're representing Mountain, all of Us, all of us.
You're representing all of us.

Dane (48:28):
The bad apples kind of ruin it for everybody.
And so if you are constantlyjust being nice and friendly and
making conversation with hikersor you know whoever is out
there, and I've seen adifference.

I really have seen a difference.
You know whoever is out thereand I've seen a difference.
I really have seen a difference.
Um, you know in, in in everyone.
You know from bikers to hikersto horse.
You know questions.
You know um trail runners, youknow I mean, everyone is, I
think, understanding that it isa multi.
You know most of our trails.
They're all multi-purpose umtrails and we just need to be

(49:00):
cool, don't be an asshole, andif somebody is a jerk, you can
still be nice.

Dane (49:05):
And because that makes them the jerk and you're not the
jerk when you this is no jokewhen, when I tell I tell my kids
this all the time, you know,when they go to fight each other
, I'm like, look, if they'rebeing a jerk to you and you're a
jerk back now, you're bothjerks.
You know why don't you juststick to not being the jerk?
They'll look bad and you'llknow that you weren't the jerk,
so, uh.
So if somebody is like givingyou a hassle on the trail, that

(49:27):
does happen.
You know, we've been on somehikes or rides with hikers that,
uh, just didn't feel like wewere supposed to be out there
and literally told us we're notallowed to.

Josh (49:36):
You know, and yeah you're like listen, we know the loss.
Yeah, we're.

Dane (49:40):
We're like hey the Rangers are right over there.
Go ask them.
But, uh, but if you reactpoorly back then they have more
artillery.
Yeah, just be cool.
I like that.
That's a great.
Yeah, super simple.
I got a hat that says be cool,be cool, yeah.

Josh (49:54):
Okay, so I want to come back a little bit to the
outreach and inclusion, likewe've had on this podcast an
objective for a long time, likesince we even started it.
Like before we put out ourfirst episode, we said one of
the things that we're going totry to do is help bring more
women into the sport.
And so, like two questions foryou.
The first question is let meget this question all the time
Like what can men do if theywant to get their girlfriend or

(50:16):
wife or significant other orsister or whoever, to come out
and bike?
What should they do and whatshouldn't they do?
What do you think?

Should I give you Jody's?

Josh (50:25):
No, no, no, I want Ruth's perspective, because Jody's
already told us twice twice, Getthe fuck out of the way.

No, no, no, I mean I think that you know, just
don't try to.
You know, mansplain, right, Imean, you've heard that over and
over and and, uh, you know,just, you know, be a resource,
be a resource and be inclusive.
And and don't say, you know, Ihad one person you know say, hey

(50:50):
, you know, I want to ride withyou, Um, but I'm going to ride
with the guys first, so I can,you know, ride fast and and then
I'll, I'll, I'll, do anotherride with you, and that really.

Josh (51:03):
So this is a man saying that to his wife like let me go
ride with the boys so.
I get a real ride in and thenI'll come down to your low.

I mean, maybe you might have that in the back of
your mind.
Shit, I did that, but I knowmany women who can outrace a lot
of you guys Well no, I'mmarried to one of them, just for
the record.

Josh (51:16):
I know that.

And I think it's like, just watch what you say,
you know, because it, you know,I think a lot of women, you know
, are, you know, just wondering,you know, am I, am I saying the
right thing?
I mean, we say thingy, you know, in front of like, whatever
it's like it doesn't matter,you're out there writing, you're
doing a great job and and don't, and I think one of the things

(51:51):
that I think that I've writtenwith you know, with a lot of the
guys with you know, with youknow, nat up, and you know they
weren't for Nat and Dave whosaid you can write, you know the
Graham Cracker, you know I'mlike I can't do that.
You know it's like they justsaid, yep, you can.
You know, I think, just be, youknow, be positive, you know,
just know that women can do justthe same things or more than
you can do just the same thingsor more than you can.
And don't try and mansplain ordon't try and or say things like
that that are really you thinkit's funny or you think that
you're not really sayingsomething that's hurtful.
But you know I didn't want toride with that person anymore
Cause it's like, oh, you'rereally telling me that when you
ride with me, I'm not reallypushing your limit, you know

(52:14):
it's not fun and I don't want toride with you anymore.

Josh (52:18):
Okay.
So we've got.
We got to watch what we say, becognizant of the words that we
use.
I I've developed after talkingto so many different women and
having so many different womenon the podcast.
I've developed this perspectivethat that I, if I, if I was in
and it was my wife that broughtme into mountain biking, by the
way, but if I was, so I'm the,I'm the, I'm the inverse or the

(52:39):
reverse, whatever, Um, but if Iwas in that situation that I
would, I would try to advocatefor my wife, for a significant
other, to find other women toride with, because I think, like
that's where the power comesfrom.
It's like women riding otherwomen, like the, the, the female
clinic, the women clinicsthey're just amazing, yeah, Like
seeing them from afar, LikeI've.
I've gone up to angel fire withhomegrown when Lacey was there,

(52:59):
from women's clinic and justwatching like the camaraderie
and how they help each other.
It's way, by the way, it's waydifferent in a men's clinic.

Dane (53:06):
Yes.

Josh (53:06):
Yeah, it's like you suck.

Dane (53:08):
Yeah Well, everybody's got their chest out Everyone's,
like I can.
We'll see you at the bottom.
It's not like that.
It is so different and that'sthe tough thing for me.
So you said something you know,and I was like oh man, I just
did that with Jilly becausewe're going up to pre-ride her
race course.

Josh (53:26):
She's faster than me, by the way, yeah you said you
wanted to bring your e-bike soyou could keep up with her.
Yes, exactly, I can't keep upwith her on my regular bike.

Dane (53:34):
So we're going to go do the pre-ride and then afterwards
we're going to go to thissection of trail, this area
called Hawes in Phoenix, andit's got a lot of technical and
I like technical and jumping offand big stuff.
And I told Julie I go, maybe ifone of your friends goes you
guys can go do the lower section, I can go jump off of stuff.
But that wasn't because Ididn't think she could do it,

(53:59):
it's because she's on a hundredmil lightweight cross country
bike and I'm going to be on 160mil.
You know all mountain bike andso and here here's Dick- yeah.
So here's the thing that mydaughter said she goes, I want
to do technical too, and so nowwe're taking two bikes, so she's
going to ride my altitude whileI ride my big bike, and so

(54:20):
we're going to go do it, and sothat's.
I will tell you this and thisis this is why I brought this up
is because I sometimes I feellike I'm afraid to talk to women
because I don't want to saysomething that that hurts them
or makes them feel that way.

Josh (54:36):
I mean, if I looked at like you, I'd be afraid to talk
to women.

Dane (54:39):
Well, you should.

Josh (54:40):
I don't have to cause they run as soon as I see them, they
run towards you.

Dane (54:43):
But uh, what I really admired about my daughter is she
just looked me in the eyes andjust said I'm going to write
technical.
She, there was no, nohesitation.
She's like, hey, I'm going togo to that and that's how you
should.

I mean, I've written Hawes.
I read I wrote Hawes two weeksafter I had surgery on your
ankle or leg?

Dane (55:04):
No, oh um.

I had abdominal surgery.

Dane (55:07):
I had an injury from the gym, but um and so I had a gym.

I know stupid gym.
I mean like trying to getstronger and I think I'm really
strong, so I'm lifting weightsthat I probably a little too
heavy for me, but anyway that'sjust the way I do things.
But but you know, I had a coupleof guys who said let's ride.
And I'm like, well, yeah, youknow, I went to the doctor.
Doctor said, yeah, you're notgoing to hurt yourself, you know
.
You know, just go up and go up.
You, just, you can do it.
I'm like I don't know what I'mdoing, but that's, that's how I

(55:35):
just go.

Josh (55:36):
I'm like okay pause is fucking awesome, isn't it?

oh my gosh, you know it was it was awesome.
But I, I can tell you, I mean Iprobably said a few curse words,
you know, going up I can'tremember the name of the trails
right now, but one of them thatyou know it was, it was very
technical one of them, but youknow they didn't say like, oh,
you can't do it, they just saidyou're doing it, you know.
And so that's the thing is.
It's just don't assume thatjust because it's a woman or a

(56:01):
young woman that they can't dosomething.
And and that's where I findthat you know men, you know I
want to say is that you know mencan be the enemy there.
You know they don't have to be,you don't have to be.
And I think I've learned a lot.
I I've been pushed up to thelimits on my bike, you know,
because you know somebody likeMatt, you know who said you can

(56:23):
do this or like Mike D, you know, I did a gravel ride up there
at Mount Graham with my mountainbike and I was cussing them all
the way and if Matt didn't havethat gear, I don't know if I
would have killed some peoplebecause I was not happy.
But the down the downhill, youknow, because he and I were on
mountain bikes it was, it was somuch fun when we'd go up.

(56:44):
And then we, you know, I thinkI was going like 27 miles an
hour and it was Lacey, I think,who you know.
That's when I discovered that.
You know, I don't even haveStrava, but because of all
trails, trail forks, I mean itgoes onto the free Strava and so
she gave me kudos and I'm likewhat is this?
And I'm like oh, how fast was Igoing.

(57:05):
So you know anyway.
But but I, I just think thatyou know, women can do just, I
mean everything or more than youcan do on your bike, and and I
think at this point, just treatus the same, you know, we're
just, you're equal, you know.

Dane (57:18):
I just liked my daughter's reaction Cause she did not take
it as a boy girl thing, shetook it as a like I want to go
do that too, and I was like,well, and then I had to explain
to her it had nothing to do withher being a girl or a kid or
anything.
It's like you have a hundredmillimeters of travel.
I don't want you to get hurtbecause your bike.
So, I'm a bike cyst.
Is that is that a thing, A bikecyst.

(57:40):
It's like like I'll judge youon your bike, like, yeah, you
know, and honestly, I took herswitchblade.
She has a switchblade, a pivotthat we take to the bike parks
and she does that, and then it'sin bike for you.
And so I got her thislightweight pivot SL to race on.
God sounds so Well you own abike shop, bro.

Josh (58:02):
Yeah, I know, it's okay, you own a bike shop.

Dane (58:05):
It's like geez God.
What is this guy doing?
Anyway, I am poor.

And I drive a 2001 van.
But his daughter's got 14pivots yes, exactly.

Dane (58:20):
It's true, it's the typical like the van is not
worth as much as one of thebikes.
But anyway, um, long storyshort, she you know.
Her reaction to it was hey, shedidn't, she didn't take it a
certain way, she just wentstraight to the I want to ride
she knows you and she knowswhat's in your heart.

Well, and I think you know she's taking.
You know like these skillsclinics are worth way more than
you have to pay for them,because you know I've learned so
much from Jody.

Josh (58:45):
Oh yeah.

STMB.
She partners with us.
We, we do put it, you know, andwe're going to have some this
spring.

Dane (58:58):
And one of the things she says is don't ever say sorry,
don't say sorry, yeah, don't saysorry.
And just that changing thatmindset early on.
Yeah, say surprise.

Yeah, that's what she says, and I think, like
women of my generation, we havebeen taught to say sorry or like
, oh I'm too slow, or you goahead of me, and I think the
young women that are finishingher course they're not thinking
like that they're not and that'swhere we need to, you know,
start.

(59:23):
You know these clinics you knoware important.
I'm going to give a shout outto the Harris Foundation because
we have a grant.
We're going to write anothergrant and that's how we offset
the cost.
You know you pay 20 bucks for aclass worth way more than that
yeah.
But the Harris Foundation, youknow, pays.
You know.
The other part of what we paythe coaches and I think that's a

(59:47):
thing is that being moresupportive of these types of
events in town, really havingand not just, you know, women, I
mean I think there are peopleunderserved.
You know kids, you know, and Ithink Jodi's working with those
as well in the schools nearFreedom Park, and I think it's
just giving that confidence ofyou know I can ride the heck out

(01:00:07):
of any bike, you know, or youknow run them, you know these
trails or what have you, and Ithink it's just that's a lot of
work.
You know that she's working on,not just on the bicycle, that's
just an aside.
They're going to learn how todo that quickly.
It's just having that abilityto have somebody who believes in
you and doesn't treat youdifferently because of your age

(01:00:27):
or your gender or the color ofyour skin.
You know, and I think for men,if you want, you know really
just, you know just the firststep is just knowing that you
know women have had to take alot of you know being second
class, you know in everything,in the industry, in any industry
and jobs or bikes, and that youknow that you guys, at least,

(01:00:49):
are asking the questions.
You know and just you know, justknowing that you might say
something.
You know that that, that youknow somebody might say that's
not cool and like you know, andyou should be offended, yeah,
you should care.

Dane (01:01:02):
You should care that you said that and and and recognize
it I.
That's one thing that I thinkis is great about as we evolve
as people is we get this kind oflike a change happens and then
a knee jerk reaction happens,which is usually us not wanting
the change, you know, or notbeing upset about it in some way
.
And then you, you, the the true, higher, you know, echelon of

(01:01:27):
people, sit back and go why.
You know why, why don't I wantthat?
Like what's why?
Why am I so adverse to thechange?
Why can't I just why?
Why is that bad?
Is that bad like when you saidyou know, uh, you know, if
you're including people you know, and you have a problem with
the term inclusion, you know, inyour vocabulary why did it?

Josh (01:01:45):
why?
Why we all want more people onbikes, man we want?

Dane (01:01:48):
we want to include people.

Josh (01:01:49):
You know more people yeah, quantity of scale, yep right,
it's economics.
Yeah, more mountain bikers themore trails and get and get a
good bike.

Ruth Canamar (01:01:57):
I think that was the other thing.
Max, my neighbor, when I was,you know, it was a day I was
going to go buy a bike and itjust happened it started raining
and my neighbor came back earlyfrom a ride and then Max was
unloading his bike and he cameover and he goes do you mountain
bike?
And I'm like I'm going gonna goto the Trek store, I have an
appointment, I'm gonna go lookat bikes.
And they said, whatever you do,don't buy a bike, we're gonna

(01:02:18):
work with you and I'm tellingyou, it took six it's because,
because if you buy the wrongbike, you know you're gonna hate
it and you know it was the bestadvice.
And I'm telling you that thatevening I had, you know, dinner
with one of my neighbors.
We talked bikes for a year anda half but it took me six weeks,
you know, and I bought my bikewith Steve at Bicycle Ranch.
I love that bike, you know.

(01:02:40):
They were great, you know.
But we went all over this town,we took, we went to Tempe, we
went to Scottsdale, we went toPhoenix.
I found a bike out there and Ibought it, you know, locally,
and and still have that bike.
I love that bike.
But you know it, just somebodytook the time.
I mean, this guy's an engineer,you know, so he's really you
know, he, it was like, it waslike we had to go in order, you

(01:03:02):
know, to go look at all of thedifferent bikes and and and all
that.
But anyway, I mean it was justreally nice Somebody took.
You know, like the bikecommunity is like oh, you're
going to get the best bike foryou.
You know, and and it made sucha difference, you know, and so I
mean it's just a greatcommunity.
So I think, definitely havingthe right bikes.

Josh (01:03:22):
We know a lot of people with you know lots of knowledge.
If you're trying to figure outwhat bike to get, get a hold of
us and we will find someone.
Either we will help you or wewill find someone in your local
area that can help you navigatethat, because it can be a little
overwhelming at the beginning.

Dane (01:03:40):
Well, you know, I do a lot of research on the bike
industry and and one of thethings that the bike industry
has got a bad black eye from isis that kind of uh.
I think what a lot of womenfeel uh comes from a lot of bike
shops and I don't see it here.
Um, I feel like our staff isreally, really super aware of
people, but I just hear storieslike crazy and then I'll go to a

(01:04:00):
different city and sometimesyou'll, you'll see that yeah.
And um, and it's tough because Idon't know where it comes from.
You know Uh it doesn't.

Josh (01:04:09):
It doesn't make any sense too, because like, like, okay,
I'm not going to like serviceyou or take care of you, well,
because you don't speak mylanguage, or you don't know all
the infinite details.
But like you're a fuckingbusiness bro, yeah, don't you
want to sell a bike?
I know so like shouldn't youservice anybody that walks in
and I think it depends on theyou know.

I mean if they are commissioned or something,
because it's like, well, we'regonna take a lot of time to get
this, you know that's true fourfoot eleven and three quarter
size person.
And so what?
What my neighbor did is hecalled all the shops and he says
you know, this is my friend,this is her size.
You need to have an extra.
That's why it took six, eightweeks to find my bike.

Dane (01:04:43):
Yeah.

Because most bikes don't have an extra small right
, and so I'm telling you.
So he called him and said youneed to have a bike ordered, you
need he goes, you know you needto cut the stem on the and
they're like.
And he says you want to sell abike?
And I wouldn't have done thatbecause at one I didn't know
anything about bikes.

Dane (01:05:00):
You didn't know what it was.

Josh (01:05:01):
I didn't know it could be done.

He says you want to sell the bike.
You know he says and you knowwhat.
So he, he knew what to say.

Dane (01:05:15):
And so, and I'm you through that and helped you
learn when, where, is the line.

Josh (01:05:19):
Yeah, that is, that is the man's winning line, cause I
can't figure it out Cause we aretotally ignorant in this.

I'm perfectly honest what I'm saying is like
we I don't think women arecompletely want to shut you out.
It's like you know, um, it is asport that's, that's more male
dominant Right.
So and I knew that and and soyou know it's.
It's just not letting somebodysay this is what you're going to
get and and that was what heknew.
I mean, and I think, if youknow me, you know, you're not
going to, just you know you know, buy a bike for me and say

(01:05:48):
you're going to ride this, he'd,you know, made sure.
He says that you know we'regoing to do our homework, what
you're going to do, you knowwe're going to.
Here's a man you know, and sohe really, you know, made sure
that I was, you know, make itultimately making the decision.
But he's like I've ridden mybikes, you know a bike, I'm 60.
He says, you know, and I'veridden a bike since I was three,
you know.

Dane (01:06:06):
So you, you, you do have that knowledge that I didn't he
got to know you and he, he, hepresented things to somebody who
knew as a friend, and I thinkthat's important when you walk
up to somebody you don't know,you shouldn't make assumptions,
and there was definitelydifferent.

You know different shops were different.
You know some were willing tojust take all the time in the
world to talk to me, but I canguarantee that's.
You know some wouldn't, becauseI didn't know what I was
looking for, you know, and so soI'm grateful for that.
So I think that you know, aslong as you're, you're a
resource and not shoving a bike.
You know that that, you think,is cool for this.

(01:06:40):
You know he was there to helpnavigate and to you know, get
the.
You know I said this is howmuch money I can spend and, and
this is you, know how much moredid you spend over your budget?
It had to have been at least alittle bit more it was a little
bit more because you know, yeah,I want you know because you
know one, you know because ofhis experiences, you've got to
have a tubeless and at that timethe bike that it wasn't

(01:07:04):
tubeless, you know, and so I hadto pay a little bit extra, but
you know, I mean it was, it wasuh, you know, I mean it was
great having him there.
So you know, I think you know,be a resource, but you know,
just don't try and we call thosethe, the experts.

Dane (01:07:15):
Like in the sales, in bike sales, we call that your expert
.
So you bring in your expert andI try and teach the guys not in
a great way, Like I'm not agood teacher, but I try and tell
them, at least give them anexample that you know.
You want to talk to the expert,Remember who's buying the bike.
You know, don't ignore theperson buying the bike and just
talk to the expert.
You want to address both ofthem.

(01:07:38):
You want to make sure.
Sometimes the experts kind oftake the wheel and kind of
control everything, and as asalesperson we have to kind of
navigate that territory becausewe're trying to help the person
who's going to get the bike, butthe expert is the one that's
going to actually make thedecision sometimes, and so it's
a tricky thing, you know to doand I think you know, as a bike

(01:07:59):
shop owner, I think you knowthat's, that's something, that
that's important, you know.

especially, you know we tried, like when we do
the women's clinic and stuff, Isay you know it's not scary to
go into a bike shop, Cause youguys, you know, you know a lot
of the bike shops here,especially in this town.
You know you know, definitelyit is a bike town and I think
there's, you know there's a lotof cool women that are out there
writing and and I think youknow they, you guys, know better
.
Now, right, you know, don't,don't, don't try me.

Dane (01:08:24):
You know, I gotta tell you I honestly, am like super aware
, much more, since we we'vetalked you know, um, I think we
talked earlier that I talked tomy wife about it, because I I'm
like, hey, I, I, really I Iconsider myself fairly very
open-minded and very, um,sensitive to people and I really
care about what, what affectsthem.
And uh, she's like, no, I don'tthink they're talking about you

(01:08:46):
.
And I'm like, okay, so long asyou know, like, I just want to
make sure that, like you know,that's, that's coming across.
And I think her reaction waswhat made me feel good is that
her reaction was, I think, whenyou tell uh somebody, like
jody's expression, uh, and youknow, uh, what is it at a girl

(01:09:09):
or yeah, she hates at a girl,right and um and she goes.
I think, when it's how you say,it is just way more important.

Josh (01:09:17):
Every time I say Jodi, I say I had a girl, every time on
the trail.

Dane (01:09:22):
She knows I'm messing with her.
Well, and it's, it's theattitude Like, if you like, when
I'm, you know, praising Jillian, I'm like you did awesome, your
, your race was great.
You know my tone and my dictionand my the way that I speak to
her is of true admiration thatshe's setting goals and
achieving them.
Not that I was surprised thatas a girl, she could do that,
you know, and and I think thatcomes across, and so sometimes

(01:09:45):
guys are pretty hard, like, like, like they don't have a clue
and they say things and theydon't understand.
I'm finding this out with mykids.
They I keep telling my kids.
They're like I said good joband I said you said good job.
You know, I'm like it's, it'sthe way you say it and and I've

(01:10:05):
some people don't realize howmuch they transmit of themselves
through the way they saysomething, even if they say the
right words.

Josh (01:10:10):
So Ruth, what are you most excited about for the future of
SDMB?

Gosh, we have so many, so many projects come
along.
You know, we we have the ahundred acre park.
I think Um so people should goonline and and and comment.
You know the, the, the city umof Tucson has a survey out there
.
Um, you know, uh, oral Valleyalso has a working group.
We are, you know, we're, youknow we're excited and
partnering with and being onthese committees and being there

(01:10:41):
trying to help pave the.
You know, the way for moretrails, and these are like we
were talking earlier about it.
It's not you know it's not sexy,it's not fun to have to sit
here and say you know you'regoing to wait 10 years for
something, for something youknow, but that's the way things
get done.
So just knowing that that thecommunity is asking us, asking

(01:11:01):
sdmb to be a part of and help,you know, guide what the land
managers are doing, um, what,what you know, uh, you know the
city of tucson is doing is, youknow, I mean I think I'm excited
that there's just so much thatwe want to do and that we can do
, and that there's a lot ofexcitement that we're working,
you know, partnering with, likeTorca and other organizations to

(01:11:23):
really, you know, um, you know,keep building and maintaining
trails and just really puttingthings out in the community,
like the skills clinics, likemaybe bringing more um advocacy
for, for adaptive bikes, um andum.
So I mean I'm I'm just excitedabout gosh, all the different
things that, that more advocacyfor adaptive bikes, and so I

(01:11:43):
mean I'm just excited about gosh, all the different things that
we have ahead of us.

Josh (01:11:45):
That's awesome.
Ruth, thank you so much forcoming and taking an afternoon
to spend with us.
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So do you have any finalthoughts for our listeners?
Well, I just she was just likemouthing Josh, we forgot
something.
Tell us, we got to talk aboutsomething.
You have a big raffle going on.

We have a big raffle coming up.
I want to invite people to goon the SDMB website and buy some
tickets for a raffle for aCannondale Habit 3 that was
donated to us by Epic Rides.
This bike was given or donatedto them by Tres Amigos Tequila,

(01:12:22):
so this year at the dedicationwe are going to have some
margaritas, and so this bike wasdonated to SDMB so that we can
help fundraise, and we have.
We're very excited.
We have an online raffle thatwe just launched yesterday and
it's $5 ticket or five for 20,and you get to win this bike and

(01:12:45):
you don't have to be a residentof Arizona.
You just need to be here orhave one of your friends buy
your ticket here, but TresAmigos will ship that bike to
you.
You can select the size and thecolor and so in all the
proceeds, 100% of the proceedsgo to SDMB.
So go online and buy yourtickets and help support SDMB.

Josh (01:13:07):
Nice, awesome, thanks.
We just did a little videopromo while she was telling me
that on the podcast.
So a little two for that.
I'm trying to work on myworkflow so it gets more
efficient.
How'd you like that Two for one?
Well, thank you so much again,ruth.
We really appreciate your time.
We really appreciate everythingyou're doing for for the local
community here.
The trail advocacy, you knowit's, it's thankless.

(01:13:29):
The, the Sonoran desertmountain bikers it's all
volunteers.
Everything they do isvolunteers.
The passion, the passion, thehard work, the dedication.
I've been blessed to be able tosee a little bit of it behind
the scenes and it just blows mymind everything that you guys
are doing, and I really wish thecommunity could see what I can
see and how much work you guysare doing.

Thank you, josh, for joining our efforts and
really just helping us, givingus a lot of ideas and advice,
and just being a supporter ofour work and D has given us a
lot of ideas and advice and justbeing a you know supporter of
our work and and dane, thank youso much.
I mean you know how much I lovethe shop and and you know how
much I love my bike and and yeah, and you know and and my air
conditioner is still stillworking and I haven't replaced

(01:14:10):
it because we have also a gooduh hvac guy thanks to you.

Dane (01:14:13):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Thanks a lot, Ruth.

How hard was it?
Not bad, it was kind of atfirst, you know, because I was
listening, I'm like I don't, Ihate my voice.
I've hated my voice since I wasa kid, so it's like yeah but no
, then it was Cheers.

Dane (01:14:39):
Can you dig it?

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094 - Building Better Mountain Bike Communities: SDMB's Approach to Trail Advocacy and Engagement (Guest: Ruth Cañamar, Vice President, SDMB)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}094 - Building Better Mountain Bike Communities: SDMB's Approach to Trail Advocacy and Engagement (Guest: Ruth Cañamar, Vice President, SDMB)