095 - Bike Shop Secrets: Pro Tips on Carbon Bars, Wax Chain Lube, and Dropper Post Maintenance - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
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Dane (00:13):
okay, so I never get to do that.
So watch, yeah, there you go, Igot one too.

Josh (00:23):
Yes, the wheels on my bike , the tires specifically on my
bike, are pissing me off.

Dane (00:28):
I you know yeah, I totally get that, I mean they're
pissing me off Like they'rereally pissing me off.

Josh (00:33):
They keep going flat.
You need some sealant.
No, I need some sealant.
So I sat him down, got to havea conversation, okay, right, I'm
like I am so sick and tired ofyou guys going flat, okay, and
you know what they said to me.

Dane (00:52):
I really want to know this , but I don't.
Okay, go ahead.

Josh (00:55):
They said, Josh, we just can't handle the pressure.

Dane (01:00):
You said it was a good joke.
I don't know if that qualifies.
Can you dig it?

Josh (01:05):
No, you don't think that was a good joke.

Dane (01:08):
No, no.
Do you have a womp womp?
Do you have a womp womp?

Josh (01:13):
Hang on there we go.

Dane (01:14):
That's that.
Yeah, that should have beenwhat you used right there.
How are you doing today,brother?

Josh (01:20):
Good man, I'm sad we didn't ride, yeah, but it did
not take much for you toconvince me not to ride.
I was ready, I was all dressed,in my riding gear, I changed my
tire, swapped out my tires, Iwas ready and I was out.
I was out walking michael mochawhen he called.
I'm like are we still riding?
You're like uh, you couldconvince me not to, really easy
yeah, I, we've been so busy it's.

Dane (01:40):
we got the 24 hour in the old pueblo uh-hour race coming
this weekend.
It's been so busy at the shopand it's just like you get done.
On the drive over here I almostfell asleep Like no joke.

Josh (01:51):
When you told me that I was like let's not ride, let's
get you home early.

Dane (01:54):
You know, but I do need that exercise.
I think this weekend I'm goingto make an effort to get out
trail.

Josh (02:00):
No, not with Turner.

Dane (02:04):
No, we're going to go out there and watch the rock drop.
Watch what's going on.
Last year, if our listenersremember, we did a live podcast.
Everybody's kind ofdisappointed.
We're not going to be doingthat this year.

Josh (02:15):
Uh-oh.

Dane (02:15):
So I'm sad about that.

Josh (02:21):
To our listeners, our local listeners or anyone that's
in town.
I apologize.
My youngest son has a soccertournament this weekend, and so
I gotta be a good dad and bethere to support him.

Dane (02:27):
It's a crazy weekend.
We've got, um, my daughter'sgot a big uh volleyball
tournament so they're out oftown.
So I got Turner with me so Ican't do big rides, but we're
going to go try and ride andjust say hi and watch the rock
drop, which is fun, and just seethe festival festivities.
It's just a cool event.
The amount of people that havebeen coming into the shop from
all over the country, it's crazy.

(02:49):
It is crazy, yeah, and it'sreally cool.
Lacey was telling us a storyabout meeting people out at the
trails.

Josh (02:55):
Yeah, they were out at 50 today.

Dane (02:57):
Yeah, they're just kind of getting into town early and
then going out on rides andexperiencing Tucson and it's
cool.
It's cool to see those eventsgoing on, Cause I think in our
this day and age there's been alittle slowdown in some events
and then other events aregetting bigger.
So we were talking abouttriathlons are kind of slowing
down a little bit.

(03:17):
We're not seeing as muchinterest, so I'm hoping that's
coming back.

Josh (03:21):
Yeah, right on man.
Well, it's just, it's the worldfamous Dane Higgins, the
suspension guru from the world,famous or infamous Guru Bikes
and Guru Suspension, and littleold me today.

Dane (03:33):
Yeah, you know what I love these I do.
I like just talking bike stuff,you know, and just kind of I
mean we do this on the trailLike I do this every day.

Josh (03:43):
You day.
I could do this every singleday.

Dane (03:47):
I just really like this stuff and geeking out on bike
stuff and bike parts and littletricks and tips and all kinds of
stuff, and hopefully everybodyout there listening likes that.
I love interviewing people andfinding out how they live in the
bike industry and how work inthe bike industry and what they
do and and all of that.
But sometimes you just want tosit down and be like geek out on

(04:09):
stuff you know, and I like that, so, so we'll do more of these.
We've gotten some feedback thatfolks like when you and I just
sit down and chat about bikes,are you going to pick fights
again, like you're going to belike, yeah, okay, I'm ready, man
, I'm ready.

Josh (04:21):
Although, I think I'm batting like a two for 10.
I'm like 20% accuracy level, soI'm learning a ton from you.
But we have a list of things totalk about today that I think
primarily stem from things I'vebeen learning as I kind of get
into new components and newtypes of bikes and stuff, and as

(04:42):
I learned these lessons, Ithought it would be good for me
to share the lesson I learnedand then get your perspective as
, like someone that has probablylearned these lessons 10 years
ago.

Dane (04:49):
Yeah, and I got to tell you like we were just doing a
little bit of talking.
There's stuff I learned too andI love learning.
Like I am on a deep dive lately, you know, with my getting rid
of news in my life.
I've now filled that withlearning everything Like I have
taken my van apart three times,like redoing my garage, building

(05:12):
a porch, like I'm doing allthese things and I just love
learning that stuff and so, andI'm filling that time with all
of that.
So, uh, you made a list, whichI think is cool.

Josh (05:21):
Yeah, I made a list.
Uh, okay, so first one.
Um for Christmas.
Uh, my wife hates presents.
She doesn't want presents forher birthday, she doesn't want
presents for Christmas.
Um, gift giving is not her lovelanguage, so to speak, but it
is very much my love language,uh, from my youth, um, and as I

(05:41):
grew up, we didn't have a lot ofmoney and so like we would pine
for things because we couldn'tget them.
Yeah, and so the only time wewould get those those big cool
things, whatever they were,would be like Christmas,
birthdays, things like that.
So like gift giving was a hugedeal.
We would save up and sacrifice.
I always bought my own presentsand stuff, so it's like a big
part of like, of like who I am,okay, and so it's really weird

(06:04):
to have a wife that could givetwo shits and I'm just like,
look at this great thing I gotyou, and like like last year
when I bought it, thetransmission.

Dane (06:12):
Yeah, and she's like I don't want that.
I don't want that.

Josh (06:14):
I'm like could you at least like fake it or something
Like that was like I had a setof carbon bars, uh, that were
from pivot um and they're reallygood.

Dane (06:31):
I think they're called the phoenix pros okay hopefully
brian mason is listening and notdisappointed in me.
Um, but uh, I, they're reallyhighly rated bars, I gotta tell
you.
I got them on all my bikes andI actually will pull them off my
bike before I sell it and keepthem.
And in this day and age of likeenvies and, uh, I, like my

(06:51):
one-ups, I did get a set ofone-ups which I really like
there's a lot of really good umrentals, you name it.
There's all kinds of cool barsout there.
Usually the house brand bar isnot the desired bar, right.
But I've had customers comeinto the shop and say we had one
customer come in and goes heyman, I want the pivot bars.

(07:11):
And I'm like I at the time thisis a while ago we couldn't
really get them from pivot andum, they were just coming on the
bikes.
And he's like, can I just buythe ones off of that bike right
there?
And I'm like, well, I got toput something on there.
And he's like like I'll buythese envy bars.
I'm not kidding you.

Josh (07:27):
You put those envy bars.

Dane (07:28):
I'll trade you for those bars right there and I'm like
okay, so, and we did it.
That's how much he liked thebars and it made me kind of
change my perspective on housebrand on house brand and
evaluate things?
Yeah, don't don't discountsomething that's made by the
company.
Yeah, um, you know, try andlook at its merits, not
necessarily its label so yougave me all that sales pitchy

(07:51):
shit?

Josh (07:51):
yep, but uh, the reason I bought them honestly was because
they were the same like riseand sweep and everything is the
aluminum bar she had on her bike, because they were the bars
that if you bought us, she has aswitchblade yeah if you bought
a pivot switchblade with therespect with the carbon stuff,
that's what it would have andthe aluminum was the same.
So I was like, all right, thisis going to feel exactly the
same.
By the way, I weighed the I.

(08:12):
I cut them down, so she ridesthem at seven, 80.
Okay, they came in 800.
Between the aluminum bars andthe carbon bars 100 grams, 146
grams.
So it's a little bit more thana quarter pound.

Dane (08:28):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing, right?
It's not a big object, right?
No, you wouldn't think so.

Josh (08:33):
And she wrote them today out at 50 Year, which is one of
the more technical sections inTucson.

Dane (08:37):
Did she even notice?

Josh (08:39):
I was like how'd the bars work?

Dane (08:41):
I put everything on there, you're all excited, I'm all
excited.
They're black.

Josh (08:45):
I put those new brakes the .

Dane (08:47):
Hayes brakes on there.
I'm like how'd the?

Josh (08:48):
brakes work.
She's like I didn't notice.
I'm like you didn't fuckingnotice that I changed your
brakes to a different brand.
You didn't even notice.
She's such a rad rider, you'dthink that she would be in tune
with these whatever, there arepeople that will notice.

Dane (09:02):
You know like they'll notice if I adjust their brake
lever out a little bit you know,I'll know that yeah, people
will notice that, and thenthere's people that won't notice
if I've switched the fork onthe bike.

Josh (09:12):
Yeah, like I'm 50, the rider of lazy, but if you change
my bike by a half a millimeter,yep, you'd be like something's
not right here.
What'd you do?

Dane (09:21):
it kind of shows you that you know everybody does their
own thing.

Josh (09:25):
Um.

Dane (09:25):
I, I like the carbon bars.
I am a carbon bar junkie causeI found a long time ago they've
reduced vibration and so I'm notlooking for flex.
Uh, I still want them to steerwell and I'm not looking for
stiff, but what I like is theyjust reduce some of the
vibration that get in your hands.

Josh (09:44):
Yeah.

Dane (09:45):
And so it just takes one more contact point and gives it
a little bit more comfortable,less abrasive feel.

Josh (09:52):
Awesome.
Um, that's what I told her, asI'm like, I think, in the
chatter, it's going to help alittle bit.
In the chatter she wrote 50year.
Today.
There's not a lot of chatter in50 year, yeah, so she's like I
probably won't notice it today.
So whenever she rides aChattery Trail like Star Pass or
whatever, she'll feel it.
That's not the whole point ofthis.
The whole point of this is thatI've had those bars since
Christmas it's February 12th hadthose bars since Christmas and

(10:22):
I haven't cut them because I wasscared to cut carbon bars, and
so I'm a Park Tool guy and so soI got onto Park Tool's website
and they have a hacksaw bladethat's designed for carbon, but
I couldn't fucking find itanywhere.
Oh, and so I ordered it fromEngland.

Dane (10:34):
Really, yes, I have one in the shop.

Josh (10:37):
For sale.
Yeah, oh God, that's awesome.

Dane (10:40):
I waited like two months, paid $37 for a hacksaw blade
yeah, yeah, and granted, like wedon't stuff like that we don't
put on display, we have three inthe drawer.

Josh (10:50):
Yeah.

Dane (10:50):
So, as we wear them out, we always have one Right, but
we're always ready to sell one.

Josh (10:54):
So little secrets, yeah, little secrets.
Like ask the shop if you don'tsee it on the floor, cause I did
look at your park tools and I'mlike all right, they're not
selling.

Dane (11:01):
I tell people all the time we hide shit like we do I don't
know about that from a salesperspective.
But okay, I got you.
It's not on purpose, it's justwe're trying to cram so you only
have so much show space, yeahyou show, show space.

Josh (11:13):
Yeah, uh, and you have great.
Your, your crew is an amazingshop.
It's like just got a great,great vibe.
Great employees, great setup,great stock.

Dane (11:21):
I should stop like blowing it right now.

Josh (11:23):
Okay, anyways, okay, so, um, I talked to you and our
friend Nick, who's like amechanic, and I was like, guys,
I never cut carbon before.
I'm a little nervous about this.
Like what should I do?
So what I did was I bought thispark tool carbon specific
hacksaw blade that kind of lookslike a hacksaw blade with like
sandpaper on the bottom.
Exactly yeah, and it workedlike fucking great, yeah,
although I did have a problemwith it.

(11:44):
But before we get into theproblem that I had and you can
talk and I know you have asolution for that could you tell
me, like, how do you guys cutcarbon in your shop?

Dane (11:52):
so we go out.
If you go out, in the back ofthe shop there's this concrete
slab and we just rub them reallyaggressively he's full of shit,
he's joking no, we use thecarbon blades.
So there's a couple differentways.
Abrasive blades work reallywell and they don't have the
teeth.
If you do have a hacksaw bladethat's got a super fine tooth
count, like a high tooth count,that works pretty good too, and

(12:16):
I gave you.
I'm just going to throw thisout there.

Josh (12:18):
You told me and I forgot.

Dane (12:19):
Okay, I gave you advice on you gave me the specific
instructions.

Josh (12:23):
Yes, okay, probably drinking whiskey at that time.

Dane (12:25):
I just want that known.
I just want it known.

Josh (12:27):
Okay, so so before you so do you want me to say that?
Before you before you get tothe solution Okay, all right,
are there?
Are there carbon specificcutting tools that are not park
or that you can go to, like Aceor Home Depot or what are those?
Yeah, what are those?

Dane (12:41):
Yeah, you can get the same type of abrasive blade from
other manufacturers.

Josh (12:44):
Is that what it's called abrasive blade?

Dane (12:46):
And they look exactly like you described.
It looks like somebody took ahacksaw blade with no teeth and
glued a bunch of sand to it.
Okay, and what it is is justthose particles are embedded and
they create just a lessaggressive cutting surface.
It also creates a little bitwider, so it's wider.
The, the kerf is a little bitwider, so you don't get the
blade stuck as easily.

(13:07):
What's the word kerf mean?
Kerf?
Oh god, I I know exactly whatit is and I can picture it, but
it's basically the, the, thechannel that is left by the
cutting blade gotcha.
So if you were cutting somethinglike if I'm cutting wood and my
kerf, which I think is thethickness of the blade, is a
quarter inch, which is stupidwide um.
If I'm cutting wood and my kerf, which I think is the thickness
of the blade, is a quarter inch, which is stupid wide um, if I

(13:29):
want the product and I have tomake sure that I count for the
fact that it's going to take aquarter, okay, this actually
makes sense to me because I hadit set where I thought it was
going to be set.

Josh (13:40):
Yeah, like two at 780, yeah, and I think I actually got
to like 776 or somethingbecause of the curve.

Dane (13:47):
Yeah, and so, like when I learned early woodworking, you
always make the line and thenyou know when you're making your
line for when you're going tocut a piece of wood or what have
you you kind of develop a habitof either cutting on one side
or the other.
It's just so that you keep thatconsistent, so that your
measurements tend to beconsistent, and the kerf is what

(14:07):
you learn when you start usingthose blades they will take a
certain amount away.
So let's say you have a boardthat is exactly two feet yep,
and you cut it in the middle,they won't be two one foot um
lengths, correct, they will bothbe one foot minus half of the
curve.

Josh (14:25):
Yeah, Holy crap, dude.
Assuming that the curve.
Assuming that your line wasactually exactly, yeah, and so.
I apologize to Lacey.
Your seven 80 bars are seven 76.

Dane (14:38):
And then um, so there is, um, there is a, so you get the
breast abrasive blades.

Josh (14:42):
So you can go to like Home Depot, Ace Hardware, like
whatever I haven't personallydone it we.

Dane (14:47):
we usually go get them through distributors and stuff.
But yeah, Do you use the parkones, or do you use different
brands?
I have to check Sometimes.
You know, we've got a longhistory of there was a few years
where you couldn't get anythingfrom anybody, and so you change
your buying habits.
And so you change your buyinghabits, and so we used to just
get them from our distributor.
Then we would have to sometimeshit Amazon or go to Home Depot

(15:08):
or what have you, and so I don'tknow if that's stabilized yet.
We just picked one brand.

Josh (15:12):
So you just need a brace of blade, and then I used a
hacksaw.
Do you guys always use hacksawsor do you use cutting wheels?

Dane (15:18):
No normal hacksaw.
When I was working at one shopand we did a lot of carbon fiber
fork installs, we would use alittle mini chop saw with an
abrasive blade on it.
Really, and that worked prettygood.
And so you know, sometimes youknow you'll say something like

(15:38):
that and then you picture theworst case scenario of somebody
going out.

Josh (15:41):
This is exactly what I'm going to say.

Dane (15:50):
So like, should we recommend to our listeners
hacksaw?
Uh well, so with carbon fiber.
So here's the thing with carbonfiber.
It is a fiber.
There's a bunch of laid downfibers in epoxy, and so when
you're cutting them, they theepoxy will be removed by a blade
differently than the fiber will, and so the likelihood of that
tooth grabbing a piece of fiberand trying to yank it rather
than cut it causes what theycall fraying.

(16:11):
And so whenever you fray carbonfiber, you create a stress
riser and you create ainconsistency.
It doesn't look cool.
In most cases, like at the endof the bar, it will never really
affect it.
It's really a cosmetic thingand it's not that big a deal to
freak out if you get somefraying.
But what you don't want is tojust destroy that bar and create

(16:32):
a bunch of opportunities forthat carbon to continue to
unravel.

Josh (16:37):
Yeah, so carbon fiber is just literally like strings of
metal that are wound or withtape, and then they're infused
or impregnated with a resin andthen cured in an oven, and
that's what makes that material.
One of the things I learned youcan tell me if this is, or I
think I learned you can tell meif this is right or not is that

(17:00):
you don't need to use a lot ofpressure, no, that you barely
push down at all and it justcuts right through.

Dane (17:05):
So I was working with a guy who builds frames and I was
using a hacksaw and I was doingmetal, right, right, and I was
just wrenching on this hacksawand he's like, whoa, what are
you doing?
And I'm like, what are youtalking about?
I am cutting metal.
I think I was 25 or 30.
I mean, I wasn't a young person, you know.
I wasn't a tiny little baby,you know, 16 year old or

(17:26):
anything Um.
And he's like you're doing itall wrong.
And I'm like what are youtalking about?
And so this is a guy who makessteel frames and he's cutting a
lot of metal and he's much moreconcerned about the finish and
his tools.
And so what he taught me wasthe teeth are meant to be pulled

(17:49):
and you don't push so with ahacksaw.
You have teeth that go one way,yep, and you want to orientate
the blade.
You need to be aware of theorientation.
Usually they have an arrow onthere so you can line them up,
but you can flip them around anduse them different ways.
But ideally you want to pullthe teeth across the surface of
the material, and that will cutit.
And then you want to pull theteeth across the the surface of
the material, and that will cutit.
And then you want to relievethe pressure as you go backwards

(18:09):
.
Oh, interesting, so you have asofter stroke.

Josh (18:11):
Same with carbon, same with these abrasive blades for
carbon abrasive.
Don't actually have that issuebecause there's no directional
teeth, so they'll cut on both.

Dane (18:19):
They'll cut both, push and pull yeah, exactly, um, but but
if you were to use a fine-toothhacksaw for your carbon, you
want to kind of lighten up asyou reset and then pull again,
or if you've set it up the otherway.
So what he was teaching me is,in a metal sense, not to dull my
hacksaw blades, not to wearthem out.

(18:40):
Have you ever seen a hacksawblade that gets worn out?
They start to get wavy andstuff.

Josh (18:47):
It's usually overheat.
It's like every one of myblades in my garage right now.

Dane (18:49):
Yeah, we all do it, we all get impatient and we're just
pushing hard and we're like ifwe just go faster or push harder
it'll get done faster, yeah andhe taught me that you know one.
If you picture that tooth andyou just picture in your brain
there's a cavity.
There's only so much metal thatit can curl up into that cavity
before it starts lifting it andmoving it and causing problems.

(19:10):
And so if you get impatient,you know you're going to, you're
going to cause extra wear.
It's it's true.
It's cool, because one of thethings I learned in school is
like when you're in Germany andyou're learning metalwork, they
have an apprentice, you knowthey'll put you through an
apprenticeship to learnmetalwork.
They have an apprentice, youknow they'll.
They'll put you through anapprenticeship to learn
metalwork.
And like you'll spend so muchtime just filing and learning

(19:31):
how the metal feels in the fileand how to file, and like you go
through these stages andthey're way more meticulous than
you know what I learned than usdumb americans?

Josh (19:40):
well, it's not even dumb americans I.

Dane (19:42):
I didn't really get that.
Even in shop class we didn'treally get in that intricate you
know it's not even dumbAmericans.
I didn't really get that.
Even in shop class we didn'treally get in that intricate.
You know it's like cut this.
You know here's how you work ahammer, here's a drill, you know
what I mean and put some gluein between the wood, you know,
and it'll stay longer.
You know that's.
It was just, it wasn't reallymeticulous and then, and it's
kind of cool Sorry, that is ahuge tangent it's a huge tangent

(20:02):
, huge tangent.

Josh (20:02):
Okay, so, so, um, but you guys use the abrasive blades.
Yeah, park tool abrasive blades.

Dane (20:07):
The cool thing about those is one, there's not a direction
, yep.
Two, they don't dull as fast.
And three, they don't tend tofray as much because they're
kind of pulling the carbon.
They're not pulling it as much,they're kind of just rubbing it
away instead of like pulling oror almost yanking it up.
Gotcha.

Josh (20:28):
So, um, I cut, you know you gotta get two ends cut, you
know whatever, 20 millimetersoff each end, yeah, and uh,
first, first cut, no problem,and I've got the little park jig
inside of a bench vice, right.
So I've got everything reallysecure and I've got it lined up
correctly and it's got thechannels and it was really, it
was really, you know, efficient.
Yeah, first one went fine.
Second one I got to the bottomand I think I was pushing down

(20:54):
too much and it broke off.
And when it broke off, at thevery end of the cut, peeled it
like a banana.
It peeled a little time, itjust pulled up a little tiny
like three or four millimeterpiece that didn't cut off.
Yeah, so, so you're going togive me a way to resolve that,
but let me, let me tell you Idid give you a way.
You didn't, I forgot it and youignored me, so let's start with
there.
Like what do I do to to, uh, atleast lessen the chance that

(21:18):
that happens in the future?

Dane (21:19):
Well, first of all, I will tell you that in a shop
atmosphere and our shop is builtin a way that we work on our
stuff right in front ofeverybody there's no back room
where the mechanics are arebanging away and you can't see
what's going on.
We are right there in front ofyou the amount of times that
we've cut a bar and the guy isstanding or the lady is standing

(21:41):
right there watching us do itLike don't fuck that up, yeah.

Josh (21:46):
Did you?

Dane (21:47):
know that we do not have a pair of vice grips in the shop.

Josh (21:51):
What would you need?
A pair of vice grips for?

Dane (21:52):
Well, that's what I say, but do you know how many bike
shops have vice grips?

Josh (21:57):
I can't think of any time.
I mean maybe in the old dayswhen bikes were old.

Dane (22:02):
You work on a BMX bike.

Josh (22:03):
You're gonna want some vice yeah, yeah, when I was
working with, like all steelbikes.
Yes, yeah, so, but nowadays Ican't think of a time I'd ever
use vice grips.

Dane (22:11):
It's different but um so, uh, what we do is we will wrap
tape.
Usually masking tape works fine, or the the not masking
electrical tape, no, no,electrical tapes too rubbery,
and it has a lot of adhesives,so there's a lot like that blue
painter's tape.
No, uh, it's, it's the cleartape, the stuff like scotch tape
, scotch tape.
There we go, thank you, okay.

(22:32):
Thank you could not come up herefor you so I just wrap a couple
layers of scotch tape and thenI make my line uh, with a pen,
because sometimes you'll see amark on the bar and when you
cover it with tape you may notbe able to see it through that
cutter or through the uh, the um, yeah guide.

Josh (22:49):
So you use like a silver.

Dane (22:51):
Um, yeah, just a pen works fine on on scotch tape.
Okay, and then what?
The scotch tape?

Josh (22:56):
you're cutting through the actual scotch tape.

Dane (22:58):
Yes, yeah, not like um okay yeah, you don't put it just
on the edge, you put it, youcut straight through it, gotcha
and it it helps keep that littlefraying from happening.
Now, everybody who's seen thishappen and had it happen to them
, don't panic.
There's not a lot of you knownot a lot is going to happen.
Yeah, you know, if that happensto you, you try and minimize it.

(23:21):
We usually will bend it downand break it off.
You know, uh, instead of tryingto pull it, because if you pull
it, if the, the, the um, thecarbons aligned properly, you
can actually pull it pretty farup the bar.
Uh, so, like, imagine you'repeeling that right, yep, and you
go to just like, gosh, I'm somad that I just did this.
And then you just yank it.
We have seen people yank a goodsix inches and that, where that

(23:45):
thing will yank all the way upand unravel it's, it's unsightly
, it's not good and and yeah,it's not not a good thing so
what I did?

Josh (23:52):
you can tell this was stupid, yeah, so I didn't pull
it, I didn't break it yeah Itook a little piece of emery
cloth which is like a reallyfine grit sandpaper.
Yeah, I just very lightlysanded it, yeah, until it was
gone, gone and it was completelyflush.
Now I took a little of thecarbon away when I did that but
I was like okay, this stillfeels very strong to me, Is that

(24:13):
okay?

Dane (24:13):
Yeah, you're fine.
Like what we'll usually do is,once we take the tape off, we'll
then finish it with a file tojust not have that raised edge,
cause then when you go to putyour grip on it, may gray grab
that rage raised edge and thenstart peeling the carbon a
little bit.
Some bars are more prone tothis than others, the more that,
uh, the high end bars, believeit or not, are the ones that

(24:35):
tend to be more prone becausethey're trying to use less epoxy
and a higher grade carbon.
And so with less epoxy you havemore fabric, you know, fibers,
and less of the plastic.
You know people joke thatcarbon fiber is plastic, it's
epoxy it's resin.
Yeah, the resin will create a.
It's much stronger.

(24:56):
So we will usually use a lightfile and then you file a certain
direction to kind of just giveit a good taper so that when
you're putting a grip on itdoesn't fray more and that's and
that's it.
So, like the, the big thing,the big takeaways are it happens
, don't freak out.
If that happens, yep, uh,minimize it as much as you can.
The tape works really good, uh.

(25:17):
And then you know, try and justtake a nice file and be nice
and sensitive.
We so, if you imagine you'relooking down the bar from where
the stem would be, we're filingaway from the use a file.

Josh (25:31):
I used Emory cloth yeah that's fine too.

Dane (25:32):
Yeah, yeah, um, I I don't know.
You know there's going to be abunch of mechanics that are like
I use this, you know it justbasically beveling that thing so
that it's not got a sharp edge.

Josh (25:47):
Yeah, okay, cool and hey, listen.
So we um, we have eight topicsto cover.
Guess how long we've beentalking about 20 minutes, 25
minutes, maybe five minutes forthe intro.

Dane (25:54):
Yeah, 20 minutes we've been talking about my dumb ass
cut in a carbon bar I, you know,the the cut in the carbon bars
is a big deal and, um, you know,I think I think people want to
be able to do it themselves andI think they can.
I don't.
I don't think you should beafraid and even if you get that
little peeling happen, don'tpanic, it's at the end of the
bar.
There's very little strengthdifference.

(26:16):
If that happens, it's you know,just don't.
You know, I was watching one ofthe youtube shows, gmbn or
something, and they were like oh, how do you cut?
Oh, do you use a pipe cutter?
Yeah, don't use a pipe cutter,don't use a pipe cutter.
Yeah, pipe cutters aresomething that a lot of people
use.
I've used them on aluminum andthey can be effective.

(26:37):
You know, there's always agrain of salt to everything.
Don't use the huge pressurewhen you're using the thing
Cause you can, you can cause it.

Josh (26:48):
Yeah, okay, I hate to like add a, but since we're talking
about carbon, okay, it justcaught my mind on something like
I am a big fan of motor X.
You know that already.
Like motor X loop, cause I lovewhat I think shimano is
distributing now yep, I've justbeen bringing it in, so they
they also are the brand behindsome of the brands, so yeah,
little right.
Right, because, like pivot, welearned that, like when we were

(27:10):
at the pivot factory.
Remember, they told us thateven on their drawings it says
motor x lubricant.
So I'm a big fan of motor xbike lube.
Yep, you know um uh or, I'msorry, not bike lube, but like
uh, their, their grease, theirbike grease, the white grease
and the bike grease, and then umalso their carbon paste.

Dane (27:27):
Yeah.

Josh (27:27):
And so like.
So, as I'm like attachingthings to carbon things, I use
carbon paste.
You don't use grease.

Dane (27:37):
Yeah, so in the olden days people were worried that grease
would like break down thecarbon.
I don't think that's an issueanymore.
Um, the basically carbon can beslippery and so if you use
grease it may twist, so on aseat post.
I think we've covered this in acouple podcasts, where the the
idea of carbon paste is it's nota grease, so it's not a

(27:58):
lubricant, nope, and it's gotactually a little grit yeah, do
not mix them up.
They're little plastic balls inmost cases.

Josh (28:04):
Um, I'm like micro, like super small.
You can't see them.
It's like almost like sand.

Dane (28:07):
You can feel them yeah, and they just create it and then
I think, in a podcast I've alsomentioned, where some companies
will bond them straight in,they actually really resemble
that, that abrasive, uh sawblade.
They have the you'll get let.
That pivot bar that you, Ithink, has a whole layer of that
built into where the clamp areais.
No, it didn't, it did not.

Josh (28:28):
Okay, well, I sell a lot of different bars.
It was completely smooth.

Dane (28:32):
I was going to like not call you out, but you vocalized
that's okay, that's okay,there's a lot of bars that do
actually put that, so that youdon't have to have it, so so
that you don't have to.

Josh (28:40):
But I'm using carbon paste and Motorex yeah, it works
great.

Dane (28:43):
That's great.
Okay, it's awesome.

Josh (28:44):
All right, we can move on to our next topic.

Dane (28:45):
Is that it?
That's all you want to knowabout 28 minutes and 47.
That was like a productplacement for Motorex.

Josh (28:56):
I just love Motorex.
Are they paying?

Dane (28:57):
you.
They're not paying me shit.
Is this a sponsored?

Josh (28:59):
I would like you to hit like and subscribe.

Dane (29:02):
at this point it is so much better.

Josh (29:03):
Yeah, like and subscribe, please subscribe to our podcast.

Dane (29:09):
Here comes our advertisement.
You can tell I've beenoverloading on YouTube stuff.
Yeah, you've been listening totoo much YouTube, way too much.

Josh (29:14):
So next topic I want to talk to you is and we've talked
about this a little bit beforeAre you going to tell the story
correctly?
I'm going to tell the story asI remember it and then you can
tell it as you remember it.
Do you want me to just be quietwhile you tell your story, and
then I'll just you can tell mewhere it's all screwed up or you
can be like you're exactlyright.
I think I'm an intellectuallyhonest guy, so I think I was
honest.
All right, you go for it Foryears and years and years and
years and years and years, I'veused this stuff called Purple

(29:36):
Extreme yes, for underwaterwelding.
I didn't know that.
Look at that.

Dane (29:43):
Uh here, for you.
Yeah, I didn't know that.
I knew the rep was doing it andI think he was actually the one
selling it.

Josh (29:49):
Bike medicine, I think was the company right back in the
day, I don't remember.
Anyways, um, it's been great inthe desert.
It doesn't collect crap.
One of the bad things about itis that it builds up over time
and you get this kind of likegunky shit on your drive train
and then also, like every timeyou get done riding, you've got
this black on your leg fromwhere you're.
If you touch the chain, you getthis.

Dane (30:09):
we call that rookie marks so I'm not kidding, I'm not
kidding I've been running for 25years.

Josh (30:19):
I'm still getting them, so I'm a rookie, rookie mark
basically okay, yep, we're gonnahave to.
We're gonna have to dig intothat a little bit later, you
know.
Okay, but Dane's like, what thehell are you using that stuff
for man Use wax, andspecifically this wax that comes
in a bottle, and you apply itjust like you would apply
regular lube called Squirt.
And I'm like, okay, dude, I'lltry it.

(30:41):
And so I put it on my bike and,uh, I put way too much on, like
probably 400% what you'resupposed to put on, and it built
this giant puddle of wax allaround my, my, my bike, and I
took it out for a ride and I'mlike I feel like I'm riding in
mud.

(31:01):
This is horrible.

Dane (31:02):
Yeah, that's the text I got.
This stuff sucks.
I feel like I'm riding in mud.
This is horrible.
Yeah, that's the text I got.
This stuff sucks.

Josh (31:07):
I feel like I'm riding in mud, in mud.
And so I went back and I waslike, okay, I put too much on,
so I took that chain off and youcan clean it and all that stuff
.
I threw the chain away.
Brand new chain, threw it away,put another one on.
This time I put 200% what youneed, which to me was a
significant decrease.
Um, and it still sucked.

(31:29):
And then um over about I don'tknow and Dane's like just shut
up, it works, just shut up.

Dane (31:37):
I can't wait to tell my stuff, yeah.

Josh (31:39):
And so I wrote it for like three weeks and all that excess
cause I put 200% what you'resupposed to on, supposed to put
on.
It came off.
And then I was like, holy shit,this is freaking amazing.
And I didn't have to lube mychain every day and I wasn't
getting the rookie marks on myleg and uh, I was like, oh, this
is great.
So I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to like 16 bikes in

(32:00):
the stable right now between thewhole family.
But um, is it really that much?

Dane (32:04):
It is 16 bikes, holy shit.
Yeah, I mean, I can see them,but holy shit.

Josh (32:08):
Yeah, there's a lot out there, especially now that we
brought the Levo back.
Yeah, um, anyways, I recentlyconverted my Rocky Mountain
because I swapped out chains andstuff, and that's a good time
to do it.
Anyways, shout out to oh my God, I'm going to forget the name
of the company.
Oh God, what's the company thatmakes the wax dipping machine?

(32:32):
So there's Moulton.
And they also make really goodpumps.
Oh, silca, silca, silica.
Okay, so silica's got astripper a wax stripper.

Dane (32:42):
Do you have to give her a dollar wait?

Josh (32:47):
are we talking about the?

Dane (32:47):
same thing.
We're not.
We're not okay.
I got kind of excited.

Josh (32:54):
Oh, for christ's sakes it's like a grease lube, wax
strip or whatever are we still?

Dane (33:00):
talking about it's jesus yeah, okay, grease lube stripper
.
That's what you said.
I just want to clarify, forchrist's sake okay, we've gone
into the gutter, all right.

Josh (33:12):
No, this is bicycle related lube, bicycle related
wax bicycle related.

Dane (33:16):
bicycle-related grease Focus.

Josh (33:23):
So just shout out to the if you have to do any kind of,
if you have to I'm not going tosay strip If you have to remove
in a very robust and thoroughway the lubricant that's on your
bicycle chain, whatever kind oflubricant it is.
This Soka product I'm tryingnot to use that word lubricant
remover.
Lubricant remover works greatanyways.

(33:44):
So even even for the packinggrease that comes on the chains
okay, so, um, I put the newchain on there.
Uh, I also noticed, um, thatyou can buy chain, okay, so, so,
like, I'm sold like, like chain, old school chain, loop, bad,
wax, good, I'm sold, at leastfor the desert.
We ride in tucson, arizona, inthe desert, right, yeah, and I
think it's probably good in moreplaces, but I know it's good in

(34:06):
the desert.
Okay, I noticed that kmc sellsand you can buy pre-waxed chains
and they're usually reallyexpensive.
Yep, I noticed that kmc sellspre-wax chains for reasonable
prices, like 45 bucks for like axt level chain.
Yeah, um, so what are yourthoughts on just the whole wax
topic?

(34:26):
Okay, you can tell your versionof my story I'll try and do it
quick, okay you're, you knowjosh is at the shop.

Dane (34:33):
Hey, uh, I need some lube.
What do you guys recommend?
And I say I like squirt.
We've been using it for a while, for a long time.
It's really good stuff.
You like to squirt?
Yep, I do.
And josh buys it.
I get a text this stuff sucks.
I feel like I'm riding in mud.
It's the worst product ever.

(34:54):
And I text back hey, you,there's a lot of articles about
how this is one of the top lubesand actually, uh, there's been
articles about how it is one ofthe um, best ways to get more
Watts out of your bikes.
And because we have a historyof doing a lot with triathletes,

(35:16):
they are focused on reducingfriction.
Yeah and uh, you know gettingthe most out of every watt that
they have to put into that bike.
And I try to explain throughtext I'm not even calling him um
and sending him articles thatsquirt is actually you know,
know, I'm a data guy, so you'resending me data.
Yeah, top three, you know, in inone case.

(35:38):
Second, and not only is thislittle bottle of like $15 lube
going up against the $75 likeceramic speed, which is great
stuff, but it's $75.
It's right there with it andit's in independent.
You know studies showing it isjust as good and one of the
lowest friction lubes on themarket okay, yeah and josh is

(35:59):
like this stuff sucks you knowwhat you missed?

Josh (36:02):
no wait, wait here's.
That was it, that was it morethere's more to the story.

Dane (36:05):
No, no, wait, this is it, I don't know.
A month or so later, I comeinto josh's garage and I look on
the counter and there's anotherbike of another bottle of
squirt lube that I didn't sellthem.
It's their e-bike version.
I don't actually.
We don't carry that in the shop, not because we don't believe
in it, because I don't know whatthe difference is.

(36:28):
We'll figure it out.
But I'll tell you why I got that, but keep going okay and I'm
like, wait a minute, this isn'tthe same stuff.
He went out and bought more andI got the saddest puppy dog
eyes of like yeah, I kind oflike that stuff now so what you?
That's my side, so the part ofthe story you're missing?

Josh (36:50):
yeah, is that in the middle of all this, I went to
sea otter?

Dane (36:53):
yes, yeah, and you talked to the squirt guys, and the
squirt guys were there and I waslike why do I?

Josh (36:58):
you know, actually I have this recorded.
We've never actually publishedit.
I've got like 30 interviewsfrom sea otter that we didn't
publish.
But um, and so they kind oftalked me through everything.
They explained to me what I haddone wrong.

Dane (37:09):
Good, that was what did you do wrong?
That that is easy to tellpeople in case they're thinking
or had an experience, Iliterally put 400% more than you
need Way too much.

Josh (37:19):
There's way less so.
So you need to get myunderstanding.
You're the expert, but you needto get a little bit on every
rung, yes, and you need to do itslow, yeah, and then you let it
dry for like five or 10 minutes, yep, and then you do do it
second time on the initialinstall or the initial
application yeah, and you do itagain.
Get a little tiny bit on everyrung and you're good.

(37:41):
Yeah, I put a shit ton andcreated like I was riding with a
, with a candle basically on mybicycle.

Dane (37:49):
Yeah, yeah, right, that was slowing stuff.
I can see that.
So when we sell score we'vebeen.
This is one of the things that Idid tell you about this is that
, uh, when I I I've Iarticulated this with you and I
really kind of enjoy tellingpeople this because I give
people my opinions all the timeand I say, hey, you should get
this, or I think this is a goodproduct, or whatever, and what I

(38:10):
don't always get to convey tothem is that that recommendation
is not me, it's not myrecommendation, it's not I use
this product.
It is my absorption of everyperson that has ever come back
and said I love this product andit's my feeling out everybody

(38:33):
that I've ever talked to.
Every time I have a discussionabout this product and every
feedback and I consume all ofthat knowledge and I kind of
just weigh the average andfigure it out.
And in 20, 30 years of sellingsquirt I mean a long time I can
tell you, the first time I usedit, they, uh, we were doing
you're gonna tell me the firsttime you squirted yeah, first

(38:54):
time.
Uh, they gave us a case at the.
I was doing neutral support atthe 24 hours, yeah, and they
gave us a case and I had neverheard of it and we just used it.
And we had a case left over atthe bike shop and nobody had
ever heard of it, didn't knowanything about it.
We just started using it.
And what happened was we werelike this is free lube, let's

(39:17):
just start using it that's all.
That's really all it was and ina bike shop and and at that time
we were really, really, reallyhigh-end bike shop and we had so
many people coming back andraving about it and we just we
had no data.
And it wasn't until years laterthat they started actually
doing independent tests of thisproduct and and seeing why it
was so successful.

(39:37):
I did talk to the squirt guysat different trade shows and I
found out really cool littlefacts, like, for instance did
you know that their biggest painin the ass is the little?
At the time?
Anyway, was the getting thebottle qualified for us anti kid
proof?

(39:57):
So you don't drink it, so kidsdon't drink it so there's a,
there's a safety, there's theapplicator that shrinks the
little nipple yeah, that nipplehad to fit in, uh to the bottle
at a certain friction so that itwouldn't be easily removed and
swallowed.
No joke, and I'm talking to thesquirt guy and he's telling me
this story of the.
That's his pain in the butt.

Josh (40:17):
He's pretty much conquered bike lube Dude you could go all
between wax, squirt lube,nipple like swallow oh, like we
have, this is ripe for dirtylube.
Stripper yeah.

Dane (40:30):
Right, stripper, I forgot stripper.
I kind of feel like we needthat shirt.
So moral of the story is thisrecommendation and our shop, it
really likes this stuff.
It does really good.
However, I will tell you it haslimitations and so, for
instance, in our climate, in ourdry climate, which is dusty
we're not in riding in rain thislubricant does really well.

(40:54):
It tends to let the dustcollect on the wax itself and
the wax will naturally kind offlake off.
There was a product calledWhite Lightning.
There still is a product calledWhite Lightning that kind of
did this first but didn't do agood job.
One of the biggest things thatWhite Lightning struggled with
is the particulates.
The wax would separate from thetransfer fluid that was meant

(41:16):
to move the wax to the chain andbecause it would separate, you
would get super gunk, you know.

Josh (41:22):
Right.

Dane (41:23):
And a lot of people that have been riding for a long time
had that experience and don'tlike wax loops because of that.
Squirt is definitely different.
You do need to clean yourdrivetrain very well to put it
on Like very well, very well,like almost like the one time,
the one time, the one time, yeah.
So one thing that people in theshop get confused about is
they're like do I have to cleanit every time I put it on?
I'm like, no, the one time youneed to clean it there is a

(41:45):
cosmoline type grease from thefactory.
You need to get that off.
It needs to be really on themetal and it does need to get
under the rollers to be aseffective.

Josh (42:02):
So this is that stripper from soca that I was talking
about?
Yeah, it worked amazing.

Dane (42:05):
It does great uh, gasoline would probably work, but I
don't know um you know we're notrecommending gasoline do it in
a well ventilates yes, yes, butum but you need to clean it
first.
Um, now I am lazy and I willtell you that what I do with my
bikes is I actually will run anew chain on the bike that

(42:26):
cosmolines a good lube.
Uh, shimano will will tell youthat.
A lot of the chain companieswill tell you, hey, this is a
actually a really good lube.
It's good for the chain.
There's a lot of mechanics thatkind of develop this kind of
attitude that, oh, I need tostrip that off and put bike lube
on.
I've done that for 20 yearsbecause it collects dirt.
It does so again.
You have to always look atthings from your climate, your

(42:48):
environment and so is it reallycosmoline?

Josh (42:51):
yeah, like the shit that the russians put their ak-47s in
.
They're not using them.

Dane (42:54):
I don't want to say it as like kleenex, like as a a brand,
but what it is is a packinglubricant to reduce the option
of that metal rusting, rustingand.
But it is a good lube and itworks very well.
And if you're in portland,where it's raining all the time
and you're commuting, it's abetter lube than squirt.
I will tell you that straightup.

(43:15):
I would rather have that stuffthan squirt because it's
waterproof and it's harder toget off.
And when you are in portland ora rainy environment, you're
going to want to maybe do adifferent loop.
I'm not going to recommend thisloop I would recommend.

Josh (43:30):
And are you paid by squirt ?

Dane (43:31):
no, no, I'm not.
I mean, they gave me a freecase like a hundred years ago,
but that's about like literallya hundred years ago, but ever
since then we have bought theproduct and we really believe in
it, and this is definitely notpaid advertisement, so I'm not
selling squirt.
I do actually, like pedros doesa good job with their ice wax
okay that was the one that Iused before squirt.

(43:51):
Um, again, you didn't have tomix it as much.
So the one thing about squirtthat's different than like the
white lightnings is it doesn'tseparate.
So when you are, if the bottleis clear, which in most cases
are kind of a frosted, so youcan kind of see in them.

Josh (44:06):
Yep.

Dane (44:07):
You don't see any separation where you did with
the other stuff and I use a.
There's a.
I was trying out a WD-40 drylube and it would separate.
There's a lot of brands outthere that'll separate um their
formula just doesn't do that,and so the transfer fluid when
it does evaporate and leave anddry.

Josh (44:26):
You know which is intentional.
Which is intentional, it isafter the application.
It is so mixed with the lubethat it's you're not getting
this unevenness so and you don'tget the gunk if you apply it
properly so I'm sold now, ifyou're in a dry climate,
specifically if you're in a dryclimate, you should really try
this.
It's good stuff.
Oh wait, I do need to tell.

Dane (44:41):
I do need to tell people, because there's going to be a
bunch of people screaming at thewhatever they're listening to
us on.
There is a limitation, and oneof the limitations that we have
found with squirt is, if you'redoing longer rides, it needs to
be applied.
So we just, uh, supported thezia rides tenor race that was in

(45:03):
tucson, yep, and that's a10-hour race, so you're
basically a 10-hour relay race,and so if you're a solo rider,
you're going to be doing a lotof miles and you're going to
want to put this on and in themiddle of the race.
Well, so yes, and to to aneffect, so, let's say, you're
going to do 100 miles and youput this on it.
It's, you may see, in the theright climate, because at the

(45:27):
tenor it was super dusty and wehave this arizona super silt,
silt, moon, dust, whatever youwant to call it.
It and it will work its wayinto the chain.
And so what we were seeing and,believe it or not, squirt
sponsored that event.
We didn't even know that, andwe showed up with our big
bottles of squirt and they weregiven everybody, all these
little ones.

(45:47):
So it was cool, um, but what?
What was really interesting.
So, um, uh, this is some goodfeedback from our SRAM versus
Shimano.
The bikes that were coming inwith shifting issues on SRAM
transmission.
We were very confident thatthey didn't have a bent hanger

(46:07):
and we were also very confidentthat they weren't out of
adjustment, but they were makingthese horrible creaky noises.
Guess what fixed it?
The lube Just lubed the chainchain.
People would come in andthey're really like my bike is
falling apart.
We would put it in the stand.
I'm like is it making like aright?
And then they're like, yeah,and I would lube it with squirt,
run it through, let it sit forfive minutes.

Josh (46:29):
Obviously these are bikes that were already squirted.
They were already waxed chains,yeah, yeah I.

Dane (46:34):
I will tell you that I get away with.
Like you know, I don't overlube, but I have applied it to
bikes with other lubes and itstill survives.
But we tell people in the shop,if you mix a wet and a dry lube
, no matter what the brands,you're going and you get away
with it great, if you don'tclean your shit and do it right,

(47:00):
um.
So I'm lazy all the time and I,and I've put it on bikes and it
I put it on cosmoline.
I've got it to work.
You know I'm not as picky, youknow, yeah, um, but it it does a
really good job, but itactually eventually will just
take over.
It's kind of like an invasivespecies, but uh so, um.
But the drawback is, what we'reseeing is it's not going to be

(47:23):
a hundred mile lube, you're.
You're going to be at like aaround 50 miles, depending on
the dryness and the thedustiness where you're going to
need to reapply.
And so for those enduranceathletes that may be doing these
long, huge events, or if you'reriding solo at the 24 squirt,
you may need to make sure thatyou come in, you know, and get a

(47:44):
lube when you get your.
You know you take your your 10minute pee break or whatever you
know.
And so that is one of thelimitations that we've seen.
Those bikes with transmission,by the way, it was pretty
amazing.
You would put this lube on it,let it sit for not even five
minutes, but just let it soak in.
We apply it, then we run itthrough the gears so it gets a

(48:06):
coating over all the teeth andthen we just let it sit.
And then usually we just take arag after it's got a good
minute of sitting there, so weknow it's getting in and we just
take off any excess.
You and the bike was night andday and people would take them
and they're like what did you do?
And we're like we just loopedthe chain.
And they're like you're kiddingand no that's, that's it lose
your chain.

(48:26):
Suckers, yeah, chain but, um, itwas funny because the
transmission bikes we were soconfident that they didn't have
bed hangers, they didn't have acorroded or a corrupted uh cable
, uh, because we talked about inelectronics and we were so
confident they were adjustedright that the only thing that
we could think of that wascausing this weird noise was

(48:46):
lube.
And sure enough, that's all soyou put.

Josh (48:49):
So I mean like I follow the instructions on the bottle
and what the guys told me, yeah,and I put it on.
I let it dry for like 12 hours.

Dane (48:55):
You don't need to do that.
Usually about five minutes iswhat you need.
What?
Yeah, so shut up.

Josh (49:02):
So there's a couple things that foul it up and that is
this is this is not the themanufacturer's recommended
process for the record.

Dane (49:09):
Yeah, and I'll again.
I've been using this fordecades, so I probably don't
follow it as strict there.
So there's no, you obviouslydon't follow it.

Josh (49:16):
so, but what so?

Dane (49:17):
there's no you obviously don't follow it.
So, but what does happen is, ifyou're having a problem with it
, you should default to thoseinstructions and try and follow
them, which is what you did, andthen you had your good
experience.
So I get away with a lot morebecause I'm I'm quickly
evaluating what's going on andand if the chain has got the
cosmoline it's super fresh andit's like got a really big layer

(49:38):
I know it's going to get gunky,so then I will usually uh on
the bike, clean that off as muchas I can and then put it on.
Um, but for the most part, if acustomer comes in and they are
getting a new chain and we'reputting squirt on, we will
usually take the time to takethe chain off, clean it in the
parts washer and do it correctlyfor a customer.

(50:00):
So when I say that I'm lazy,I'm lazy on my bikes.
Yes, not so much on yourcustomers.
Yeah, and it's because I'musually rushing out the door and
I'm throwing some lube on so itdoesn't make that creaky noise
and, honestly, I never have aproblem and so okay, I'd never
thought I, I always thought Ihad to like I couldn't just like
put lube on and go 20 minuteslater go ride.
So you have metal on metalmovement and you want to get

(50:22):
lube in between the metal uh tocreate the least amount of
friction as possible so that youhave the least amount of wear
as possible.
The believe it or not the sideplates of the chain aren't as
critical as the rollers.

Josh (50:34):
I didn't realize that for years I've been I've been lubing
the side plates and it reallyis the rollers is what matters,
yeah now, uh, there's otherwaxes out there.

Dane (50:41):
I use a weld or wield well , w-e-l-d.
Weld, I can't remember.
Uh, they make a hard wax thatyou can melt and dip your chain
in, or you can put it on, kindof like remember sex wax.
How you do it, you're seriousum it's like you're talking
about surfboard wax.
Yeah, like surfboard, it's likea stick and you can put it on.

(51:02):
I actually put that stuff on mydownhill bike and did two whole
seasons with one waxing, onewaxing.
Now keep in mind I in my racesI wasn't pedaling a ton.
It's not a cross-country race,right you know?
I'm just descending andsprinting and descending.

Josh (51:17):
Yeah, you probably did like four miles of pedaling in
two seasons, probably.

Dane (51:20):
Yeah, that's probably true um, I just coast down, right
down, hellers just roll downyeah, you guys don't work.
Actually that was my mantra.
I'm just gonna roll down, butum, that stuff was amazing and
you could still see on the sideplates the green, because they
had colors and I did greenonline, so so you can do that,
and I do have buddies who willdo the dip.
They'll, they'll melt it in acrock is that way better than?

(51:43):
squirt, it's, it's a, it's, it'sa a way to try and get that,
that lubricant underneath therollers and in the crevices that
sometimes, when you're applyingit topical, it doesn't get
there and so that's really kindof the.
There are different ways todoing it.
Also, a paraffin dip is adifferent material, like it's a
harder uh material.

Josh (52:03):
It's not uh doesn't have the liquid.

Dane (52:06):
Yeah, I mean, this is literally at at its rest a
liquid.
So because of that you knowit's got a.

Josh (52:12):
It's not as hard yeah, it's not the same type of
product.
I mean it's similar but it'snot the same time.
Yeah, it's not the same type ofproduct.

Dane (52:16):
I mean it's similar but it's not the same type.
I always weigh things like howhard is it to do that?
And this in squirt is likesuper fucking easy.
It's super easy Once you startusing it.
That's when it really shines,because once it is on and you're
using it, you don't have to dothe deep clean.
You just have to reapply itmore often.
But a bottle like that willlast me a long time.

Josh (52:37):
A long time, yeah, so for all those other bikes, I've only
got three bikes converted, nowthe 16.
Yeah, I was thinking that I gotthis big process.
Yeah, it sounds like I can justrun those chains through some
degreaser, clean them off andput squirt on them.

Dane (52:53):
I feel like you're super analytical and I think what you
should do is do one.

Josh (52:57):
See what happens.
See what happens.
Do one another and I was goingto do that anyways yeah, yeah,
Cause I.

Dane (53:02):
so that gets onto our, our next step.

Josh (53:05):
Oh, look at you.

Dane (53:07):
Oh, my God, look at you All right, we have number three
on our line.
We're probably going to getthrough three in this whole
podcast over the eight that wewrote down, so we have six more
podcasts planned, but um and itis literally changing one thing
on your bike at a time, and sothis is something you should.
I tell my story.

Josh (53:22):
Yeah, go for it so um we were out at the bike swap which
um every year in tucson, uh gabaputs on a bike swap and, like
everyone comes out.
I mean this this is probably, Idon't know, 40, 50 vendors, one
of the biggest in the country.

Dane (53:35):
Huge bike spots, really cool I think Denver has a really
big one.
Yeah, I think that's right.

Josh (53:40):
Think of it like a swap meet for bike stuff.
Yeah, yeah, big time.
And I was out there helping outDane in the shop and I had I
was trying to sell a bike whichnever sold, but that's okay,
cause I kept it.
I was out there helping theseguys and one of your employees
was walking around and he hadWillie and he had a sign on his

(54:02):
back and it was like brand newtakeoff I-9 Hydra hubs for some
like stupid low price.
And I'm like Willie, is thatserious?
He's like yeah, I'm like okay.
And so I handed him some cashbecause I brought a pocket full
of cash because I'm like I'm ata bike swap, I'm going to buy
something and I was like I don'tknow what to do with these, but

(54:22):
they would fit most of my bikeswhatever.
And it was in Willie's aShimano guy, I'm a Shimano guy.
So, it was micro spline, right,so that'll work.
And so I had those hubs for Idon thing and I didn't do
anything with them.
And then I'm like, dang, canyou get me a set of carbon rims?
He's like yep, I got an idea wecan get some carbon rims for
you.
And I'm like, can you buildthese up for me?
He's like, yep, I'm like sweet,I've never had high engagement
hubs in my life.

(54:43):
Uh, I look some cheap.
Yeah, we've established thatpretty clearly on the podcast.

Dane (54:49):
Big difference between those and the shimano.
So the shimano ones are awesome.
Okay, no, I love Shimano.
I'm not going to disparage them, I'm telling you bang for buck,
price-wise the Shimano wheels.
Xt I would say is a good hub,but when you get down to the
Deore lower, you're just notgetting that engagement.

Josh (55:09):
Yeah, that's fair.
I've only had SLX level orabove Shimano hubs and they're
not expensive, so why the hellwould you buy a D or?

Dane (55:16):
and honestly, you know, my biggest beef with that is not
the quality, Cause Shimano.
When Shimano makes something,they do a really good job.
They, they really make a goodproduct and in fact we have to
be careful, if we're rebuildinga Shimano hub, that we use the
appropriate level of quality ofbearing.
So, level of quality of bearing, uh, so because most shimano

(55:41):
hubs are open ball and uh,they're cup and cone, they call
it, and um, it's very fewshimano hubs actually have seal
cartridge bearings and becausethey believe in the quality of
that, that bearing.
So if you take a durace hub andyou throw in wheelsmith ball
bearings, somebody at shimanowill die.
They will actually pass awayright there and it's like you
know it's not a fairy loses itswings, literally a shimano

(56:04):
employee dies yeah yeah, so,yeah, so high precision, very
high precision, and so, uh, whenthey do that, that's, that's
great.
My beef with them is that if youwant a shimano hub and you want
to run anything but shimano onit, you can't, you can't.
So they just don't play.

Josh (56:21):
Well, with others.
The good thing is is, if youget a shram hub, you can put
anything on it, right, uh, no,not, no, you can't.
What?
No, no, wait, it's the samething.

Dane (56:28):
Wait so here's the funny thing shimano only makes shimano
hg and micros spline shrammakes shimano hg and xd shram so
xd, yeah, so so so shram playswell, because they wanted to
sell their stuff.

Josh (56:49):
They're an inferior company and they better make
something that works.

Dane (56:51):
Now we're fighting so now you're just picking stuff okay,
let's get back to the point.

Josh (56:56):
Get the point.
Yeah, so I got these new firstcarbon rims I ever had, first
carbon wheelset first high dude,I gotta say I'm very proud of
you.

Dane (57:04):
Thank you, I am, you're kind of.
I don't want to say thateveryone should have carbon, but
carbon is a barrier when you'rein the desert with the
rockiness that we have to, tojust just let go and get carpet
you have to keep in mind thatI'm a large human.
Yeah, and it's sharp and pointyout here, very sharp and pointy
, and I'm a very large human andI've broken steel.

Josh (57:25):
Yes, so there's a history here.
It's not complete chaos andhysteria.
I have actually broken lots andlots of stuff, so I'm nervous,
yeah, anyways, um so highengagement hubs for the first
time, carbon rims for the firsttime, hand belt over at guru.

(57:47):
Thank you so much.
Um, bryant, bryant cheers.
So far they've done great.
Uh, still need to do a 30 dayon them.
Yep.
Well, we'll get those India.
I appreciate that.
Um, and then I put someforecasters well, max's
forecasters, and cause I've beenwanting to try them.
They're a little beefier thanwhat I normally run.

(58:07):
Oh, do you run recons?
So I've been running, uh, aground control, a specialized
tires ground.
Specialized tires, groundcontrol and purgatory.
Okay, and recently I've beenrunning the Terraval E-Line,
which I fucking love that tireOkay For a back tire.

Dane (58:21):
It's amazing.
You just showed it to me.
It's off my radar, so I'm kindof interested in checking it out
yeah.

Josh (58:26):
It's super light 700 grams and it's really great for like
down country kind of loose overhard.

Dane (58:32):
So did you see what we just did there?
We were on number three we'vetalked about one thing, but we
just added in two other five.
That was that's how I put innumber four.
We just skipped ahead.

Josh (58:43):
I just put them in the order.
Okay, all right, go ahead.
So so, um, let's talk about theforecast for a minute.
Yeah, so so I ride on thisparticular bike.

Dane (58:50):
I ride mostly cross-country stuff, loose over
hard is loose over hard, a verycommon term.

Josh (58:57):
We call it kitty litter kitty litter uh, minor chunk
yeah, but not major chunk yeah,yeah, for, for for this bike,
it's a one third one 140, 120,uh epic, uh specialized epic, uh
evo, yeah, older, older modelthat's been overstroked.
Uh, the suspension's beenoverstroked.
Uh, the suspension has beenoverstroked.
Dean helped me with that, yep,anyways, um took it out and let

(59:22):
me talk about the forecastersfirst.
Uh, they fucking stick to theground like glue going downhill.
That's awesome.
They also stick to the groundlike glue when you're pedaling.
Okay, so you're on flats or oror going uphill.
So when you say, glue it'sgreat as far as like going

(59:44):
downhill I mean bad on the flatsand climb.

Dane (59:46):
Okay.
So, like it's there, they're alittle too grippy, like you're
feeling the resistance, or theycall it friction.

Josh (59:52):
yeah so yeah so I go in and talk to dane, one of dane's
experts, ben, who we've.
We called ben one time in thepodcast.
Ben's a great guy, he's a funnyguy yeah, and I'm like ben, I
was like hey is uh, so I gotthis high engagement hub yeah I
really feel like I'm having ahard time pedaling.
I'm'm pretty sure it's the hub.
I'm like is increased frictionin a high engagement hub a thing

(01:00:13):
?
Is that real?
And he's like oh yeah,absolutely.
And so I was like yes, yes, Iproved myself right.
And he's like but you can onlyreally detect that in the lab.

Dane (01:00:22):
You wouldn't feel it on the trail and I was like oh, and
incidentally, that won't beaffecting when you're pedaling,
it's only when you're coasting.
Fair enough, yeah that makes awhole lot of sense now that you
say it that way.

Josh (01:00:35):
Makes a whole lot of sense .
So he's like, well, what elsedid you change?
I'm like, well, it's carbonrims the first time and I put
new tires on.
He's like, well, what tires didyou put on?
I'm like four casters.
He's like you're a dumb ass.
And so this gets to the pointthat I want to talk about is

(01:00:56):
like I think the lesson that Ilearned here and I knew this,
but like obviously I forgot itLike, change one thing at a time
on your bike.

Dane (01:01:04):
Well, if you were, if you were evaluating something you
know, like, like, if you get newwheels, new tires, new
drivetrain on your bike, you'resprucing up your old bike
instead of buying a new one.
You're like, I'm just going topimp this ride.
Um, it's hard to do that, Right?
But if you're having an issueso like we know this from
diagnostics when we're workingon a bike trying to figure out

(01:01:25):
what's wrong with it, you don'twant to attack like three
different things, because thenyou may not know what actually
fixed it, and so you do one at atime, and so that's something
that goes on when you'reevaluating a new product.
If you overload and do a bunchof things, you may not get a
good idea of what actually madethe difference.
And so, in your case, you wentto carbon, you went to high

(01:01:49):
engagement and you went to adifferent tire.

Josh (01:01:51):
Yeah, a chunkier tire.

Dane (01:01:53):
Yeah, and so all three of those things can make a big
difference.

Josh (01:01:57):
And my dumb ass just wanted to blame it on the hubs.

Dane (01:01:59):
Now tell me something Did you have any data, Strava-wise,
that you were actually goingfaster, or did it just feel or
that you were going slower, ordid it just feel or that you
were going slower or did it justfeel slower?

Josh (01:02:13):
you know I actually I know I had data from strava that my
descents were faster because youget a bunch of prs, okay, so it
pops the top and it tells you.
So it's obvious.
So I know that in certainsections of the trail I'm
descending faster.
I don't know about climbing orflats, because you'd have to go

(01:02:35):
compare it and I didn't.
It's there, I just haven't donethat.

Dane (01:02:38):
So, um, this has come up a couple times and I'm using my
friend mike jones, mike jones,mike jones and sharon his bike.
Sharon as an example sharon'shis bike, yep yeah, and she has
her own instagram, sharon themountain she's got a good style
too.

Josh (01:02:52):
Where does she shop?
Yeah, everything matches tires.

Dane (01:02:55):
I know, I know I know she's got a good look she's got
colored tires, true?
Um so, uh, I you know mike hasbeen slowly evolving sharon from
uh, her stock features and andshe's been getting better and
better as he rides more and more.
He puts more money into her andgets her riding more.

Josh (01:03:13):
One of the things that she's an instinct, right, rocky?
Yeah, instinct yeah.

Dane (01:03:16):
And he's kind of BCD.
Yeah, he's BCD or so whichmeans he's put a DVO coil on the
back.
He got from a buddy and he waslike this is amazing.
And I said do you need to dothe fork on?
That particular Instinct camewith a pretty weak fork relative
to what came on a lot of theInstincts.
It was a 32 millimeter, 140 or150 millimeter 32 millimeters at

(01:03:41):
150?
.
Yes, yeah, it was a pretty weak.
Wow.
It was right on the cusp ofwhen they, you know, basically
they're like stop doing that.

Josh (01:03:48):
So 32 is the stanchion diameter, yeah, yeah, and then
140, 150 is the amount of travel.
Yeah, and that's just notenough thickness to sustain that
amount of travel.

Dane (01:03:58):
Yeah, I mean just if you look at a 34 at 140 is pretty
common, but a 32 at 140 or 150is not, and uh, so we knew that
when he got a closeout bike andit was a spec that they put out
before a product was ready andso the next year model they had
the right product on there butit was a great bike and the fork

(01:04:22):
actually did really well forhim.
But he upgraded to a DVO Diamondand the moral of the story is
he he basically went from onetype of suspension that was kind
of under biked for what he does, cause he's a very aggressive,
very fast.
We we call him the human e-bike.
Um, he is like a human, yeah,and um, he does a lot of riding

(01:04:45):
and he's, he's got a lot ofpower and stuff.
And so he had this weirdexperience after he gets this
new fork.
And the DVO diamond at the timewas a thousand dollar fork.
It's a great fork, is one of myfavorite forks.
It does really really well.
They have bunches of versionswhen he got this for it's the
same one we gave out at the.

Josh (01:05:03):
I think so.
Yeah, yep, at the poker yeah.

Dane (01:05:11):
And now they've since changed since changed the design
and we had a whole episode withronnie from dvo where he talked
about that but but this forkwas leaps and bounds ahead of
what he was riding and he cameinto the shop and he told me
something that I always dreadsomebody, dane, I rode this fork
and I feel so slow, so muchslower with this fork.

Josh (01:05:29):
Yeah.

Dane (01:05:30):
And I immediately get the sense of dread that flows over
me, because I don't like it.

Josh (01:05:35):
You gave bad, you gave bad advice.

Dane (01:05:37):
Yeah, remember, I'm not just telling him what I like,
I'm regurgitating all of thedifferent experiences from the
people that have have used thisproduct, and that's what builds
my confidence.

Josh (01:05:49):
You're assimilating and summarizing a thousand different
data.
Yeah.

Dane (01:05:53):
I'm really looking at all of that, that info and getting
good info and putting it out.
It's not just my opinion, anduh.
And so I'm just like, oh man,the next thing he says blew me
away and I've been thinkingabout this since he goes.
But then I looked at Strava andI PR everything, not joking.

(01:06:16):
So he comes into the shop andtells me that this is so slow,
this fork has made me feel soslow, but when I look at Strava
I'm PRing everything and I thinkthis is a phenomenon that
happens more often, that I don'treally think about than people
realize, and I think maybe youmay have experienced a little

(01:06:36):
bit of this.
What we think happened and Ithink a lot of people out there
probably have guessed what wethink happened is that because
the suspension was an upgrade,it did follow the terrain better
and give him more traction andcontrol and was more plush that
he was actually traveling at afaster speed but getting felt

(01:07:00):
like he was going slower getting, because he's used to getting
his ass yeah yeah, when you'regoing fast, you get used to this
kind of like out of control.
I'm just I I'm going so fastthat I mean, if you picture
somebody just blasting through,you just picture their face just
shaking apart and like the windblowing them backwards and like
there's a lot of gyration withtheir arms and they're just

(01:07:21):
moving up and down and that'skind of what you know, you kind
of learn is fast when you puthigh quality suspension on your
bike.
You may not experience that andyou may actually go faster
because the the suspension maywork and not jar you as much and
track the ground better andkeep you from being needing to

(01:07:43):
suspend yourself as your, your,your suspension may actually do
it, and that's what we thinkhappened.
And so what we think happenedis he moved from a system that
just was just being it was justunder under forked on his bike
to a suspension that was justdoing a way better job and he
was going so much faster but notfeeling that sensation of

(01:08:07):
almost just riding that out ofcontrolness you know, and so it
taught me a lot.
It taught me how to helpevaluate when people are
describing what they're goingthrough, and to keep that in the
back of my head.

Josh (01:08:18):
Yeah, you may have actually gone faster.

Dane (01:08:20):
Yeah, you may actually go faster, even though it feels
slower.
And as much as I don't Strava.
I feel like Strava is a greattool to be able to help evaluate
that.
You should use it.
You know, I think Jilly'sgetting me into it.
Good, because she likes thedata, like you.
Yes, she gets kudos and shelikes to give kudos.

Josh (01:08:40):
I've got to go follow her on Strava.
Yeah, I've got to get her to domore.

Dane (01:08:43):
She's still working on it.

Josh (01:08:44):
She's still green, that's all right Now.

Dane (01:08:46):
we now we've gone through five, yeah, and we're out of
time, are we?

Josh (01:08:49):
we are.
We're literally out of time,but that's good, because we
really have only gone throughfour, because I haven't.
Well, I'll talk about it now.
Yeah, that terravel, I thinkit's a, I think it's a company
that started, as I understand it, with, like some, I don't even
know what an all road tire is,but I guess it's some new
category of road bike I?

Dane (01:09:06):
I know ben has terravel on his gravel bike yeah, so
they've done gravel and sometype of.
Maybe they're bringing thatover and kind of just getting a
bigger tire.
There's a this thing in gravelcalled monster gravel yeah,
which are actually 29ers, youknow they're.
They're running two, threes andstuff like that drop bars with
drop bars and so maybe that'swhat they're doing is you've got
a what they think is a graveltire, but it's working great as

(01:09:30):
a cross country tire.

Josh (01:09:31):
Well, you know Chris Croteau over at RVBS.
He recommended it to me.
I tried it out.
I went and read a bunch ofreviews.
Lone Wolf's reviewed them.
They get great reviews.
This tire is freaking amazing.
That's good.
I love it.
I'm using I've only used it asa back tire and so I've taken
the forecaster off my back, keptthe forecaster on the front.

Dane (01:09:50):
That's okay, by the way.
I just want everybody out thereyou can have two different
brands of tires.
Don't feel pressured intohaving the same brand.

Josh (01:09:58):
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, I'm not, or
you're just being honest.

Dane (01:10:01):
I am actually being honest because, the amount of people
that come in and kind of stressover having like a Vittoria on
the front and a Maxis on theback or vice versa.
They just don't do it and Ithink it maybe comes from cars.

Josh (01:10:15):
Okay, you think that you want everything to match.

Dane (01:10:17):
Yeah, you want everything to match, because the, the, the,
the tires have said hey, youknow, you don't want one tire
gripping more than the other,and I totally get that in a car,
in a bike and in a motorcycleand anything with two trailing
wheels, you know, and that's allyou have.

Josh (01:10:31):
they do different jobs well, my hypothesis here is that
, like I don't need as muchtraction in the back, no and I
need more.
I need more rolling in thefront, I need more traction.
Yep, so I'm gonna run, I'm gonnaand I've I've run this type of
configuration for years, andyears and years and had success
on it so I'm gonna try theforecaster on the front so I can
get some of that grip, some ofthat downhill capability, but
then get a little bit more ofthat rolling like, like ease of

(01:10:53):
rolling in the back.
I'm, I'm, I'm.
My hypothesis is this is goingto be a good configuration yeah,
I want, I want to try theforecaster out.

Dane (01:11:00):
Um, I don't know, if you remember I got one.
If you want to take it, you cantake it but do you remember
when I was like giving somebodycrap about you?

Josh (01:11:07):
screwed up.
I screwed up wrong, it was thewrong tire and I was talking
about customers like I would.

Dane (01:11:12):
Basically was saying don't just follow blindness blind.
You know uh mindlessly whatpeople say on youtube yeah but
listen to us for sure.
Well, but, but.
But pay attention.
And and my example was, Iscrewed up because my example
was hey, this person recommendedthis tire on YouTube.
They came into the shop andthey ordered it and it turned

(01:11:33):
out to be a mud tire.
And we're in Tucson, arizona,with no mud, you don't need a
mud tire and I had called thattire the Forecaster, I think
that tire ended up.
What I figured out was thatactually the name of that tire
was the Medusa and it was a tirethat Max has discontinued and I
just kind of didn't realizebecause we had some really good

(01:11:53):
customers that gave me a bunchof shit about, like I like the
forecaster, it's a good tire.
Since that, I will tell youlisteners that uh, I have
brought those into the shopbecause it is yes, have you sold
a lot of them, I wouldn't say alot but they're not sitting on
the shelf for months and months,no, and.
And their uh tread profile ismuch better than I expected.

(01:12:15):
It is not the medusa, it is notthis mud tire it is a very
capable tire, um, and I do wantto put them on a bike and see
how they do, because I'm a bigfan of the recons, um, I think
it's like one level up from therecon yeah in like the.
At least, that's my impressionso I would probably be on a
trail bike recon um rear andforecaster front.

Josh (01:12:37):
So that's effectively what I'm doing on my on my down
country bike.
All right, so we've gonethrough, I guess, now five of
our yep like nine topics,because I got it mislabeled, so
we'll save the rest of them.
Um well, maybe let's cover onemore Just you want to do the
dropper post?
I do.
I do because it's a.
It's a, it's a, it's a shorttopic, but it's something I
didn't know.
So Dane was at my garage, Iwent and was showing them the

(01:13:00):
Terraval.

Dane (01:13:05):
You hang your bikes front tire up, uh.
So they're kind of vertical andthey're kind of sticking out
and as I'm walking by I'mnoticing I'm pushing your
dropper levers.

Josh (01:13:15):
So so.
So we had the dropper seat witha seat down on all the droppers
, and we do that and have donethat, because it just creates
more room in the garage.
Yeah.

Dane (01:13:24):
Cause when you're walking, they're sticking out.
When you're walking by, they'renot grabbing, so it just takes
a couple inches out.

Josh (01:13:29):
Yeah, and Dane's walking by hitting my dropper post.

Dane (01:13:31):
I'm like like I just thought he was being annoying.

Josh (01:13:34):
I'm like Dick, like what are you doing, but you said
that's bad, so explain what'sgoing on.

Dane (01:13:43):
So remember, I'm ancient and I've been around since
before droppers and I've seenwhat causes a lot of problems
with droppers.
Droppers have gotten so muchbetter in the last few years.

Josh (01:13:51):
It's probably worth, uh, highlighting also that guru
suspension which is, which is,which is one of your companies,
and you are the suspension guru,not only services shocks and
forks for, but you do droppersas well, yeah, and um, one thing
that kills droppers pretty fast.

Dane (01:14:08):
there's two things that kill droppers and that's what
this little blurb is.
Before we finish up tonight.
I see this in the shop too andI'll walk by and I'll undo them.
Dropper Post has anywhere from150 to sometimes 400 PSI in them

(01:14:29):
.
Most droppers are built with anair system and an oil system
and the air is.
When you push the dropper down,it compresses the air right and
makes it, you know, super,super high pressure, so that
when you hit that lever again,it's using that as a spring and
the air is lighter than having ametal spring.
It doesn't make noise, itdoesn't clank, it's that's's,

(01:14:50):
that's how, that's how they doit.
There's a couple of posts on themarket that don't have air,
believe it or not?
Um, but uh, for the most part.
And then there's cartridgeposts where they actually use
the same thing.
It's usually a nitrogen insteadof air and it's a sealed
cartridge cartridge.
When you lower the post, youare compressing that air and
you're increasing the pressureof that from, let's say, a Fox

(01:15:13):
post is at 400 PSI.
When you have it down, you'renow putting that Fox post at
like six.
You know, I don't know exactlyhow much.

Josh (01:15:22):
Yeah, but you're increasing the pressure.

Dane (01:15:23):
Yeah, it'd be cool to actually put a gauge on.

Josh (01:15:25):
Why is that?

Dane (01:15:25):
bad.
Uh, now you're just loadingthose O-rings that hold the air
in and hold the air separatefrom the oil, Because on a lot
of cases there is a floatingpiston in there that separates
the air and the oil, and so whenyou do that you're just
overloading them.
You're just really putting waymore pressure needlessly.

(01:15:47):
You're doing it just to storethem.

Josh (01:15:49):
that way which, over time, can build up and create
problems.

Dane (01:15:51):
Yeah, it can.
It can seep air into the oil,so reverbs are notorious for
that.
Uh, and there's lots ofdifferent ways that you can just
take the life away from yourdropper and so if you make it a
good habit not to have it downall the time, so if you're
traveling and you have to haveit down so it clears your
buddy's bars on your bike rackthat's fine and you have to have
it down so it clears yourbuddy's bars on your bike rack.

(01:16:12):
That's fine, that's fine, butwhen you're leaving it, when you
get to that hotel and you stickit in the room for the night
just pop it up and leave it thatway, you're just relieving that
pressure.

Josh (01:16:18):
So when you're not riding your bike, unless you?
Don't have a choice for fitment, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dane (01:16:23):
Keep your seat up, yeah, when.
Keep it at a the least amountof pressure state, so that you
don't stress that stuff out andthen you told me one more thing,
yes, that I didn't know relatedto droppers what's that?
So, uh, when you have thedropper down, I sit down yeah,
the seat down.
I've seen people pull it upwithout using a lever or put
pressure, or this is whathappened early on with uh demo

(01:16:46):
drivers.
Uh, they would put the seatdown and then they would hang
them on those a-frame racks bythe nose of the saddle and the
bike would sit there with all ofthe weight of the bike trying
to pull the seat up.
What that does is it can causea suction event that sucks air
into the oil and then ifanyone's been riding droppers

(01:17:08):
since they came out, theyprobably had a reverb at some
point that developed thiscushion at the top.
We call it suspensioning, and alot of that would be
artificially accelerated to becaused by that syringing, that
pulling up on the dropper, so noupward motion on your seat when
the seat post is in the downposition.

(01:17:28):
Yeah, yeah, when the seat postis in the down position, yeah,
yeah.
And so when we bleed brakes,I'll give you an example.
When we're bleeding brakesespecially on Avid sorry, sram
you're doing a double syringeand you can have the opportunity
to pull the syringe or you pushit.
When you pull the syringe, it'svery common that you'll pull
air past the seal and you'll seeit go into the syringe.

(01:17:50):
It's very common that you'llpull air past the seal and
you'll see it go into thesyringe.
And what's happening is theO-rings that are meant to seal
are actually better underpressure than they are under
suction and they don't functionas good.
And so in the seat post, thesame principle applies.
So when you're syringing,you're pulling that c-post up,
you're creating a suction whichcan allow air to to pull past an

(01:18:14):
o-ring, uh, and create thosethat air in the oil situation so
it's actually the opposite oflike the bedroom where suction
is good, yes, bad, yep, yeah inthis situation suction's bad,
pressure's good, yeah yeah, yeah, okay, I'm good with that.
So can we talk about dirtylittle strippers?

Josh (01:18:33):
because uh one more time, because I really let me, just
before we get into the jokes andwe end this podcast, just one
more question about droppers.
Like can I put my dropper postup and then clamp my dropper
post into a bike stand?
Is that okay?

Dane (01:18:51):
So I'm going to say yes, but there's a lot of caveats.
You don't want to damage theshaft In most cases.
Another good reference yeah,you don't ever, don't ever.

Josh (01:19:06):
Don't ever damage the shaft.
That is another t-shirt.

Dane (01:19:08):
Take care, don't ever damage the shaft, and that goes
for a lot of things.
Yes, it does In most cases theshaft, let's call it a stanchion
.
The stanchion of the seat postis not actually creating a
airtight or oil tight seal andso, like we see in the service

(01:19:29):
center a lot of times, a damageon the back of a seat post from
debris flicking up from the thebikes yep, you know, and so it's
not super critical.
It can cause little cavities,will introduce more dirt inside
the dropper, and so your serviceinterval should be sooner and
things like that.
So you don't need to freak out.

(01:19:51):
There is some possibility nowwith a lot of e-bikes on the
market and heavier bikes.
If a mechanic clamps that upperpost and it's a smaller
diameter, and this is a realthing you can actually do on
your bike, you can bend it, youcan bend it, and so you want to
be careful.

Josh (01:20:08):
Bend the stanchion, the seat post.

Dane (01:20:09):
Yeah, if you're riding in a g out event and you're on your
saddle and you're a biggerrider and it's.
We saw this a lot when theystarted doing 170 posts and
bigger yeah because it causes abig lever arm and, uh, one of
the pushes I think we're goingto see in the future is that
diameter is going to start goingup, uh, not only in the seat
post itself, but the stanchion.

Josh (01:20:32):
Just to get more rigid, Just to get rid of that.
I know you've been surprised Atmy weight.
I haven't bent a seat post yet.

Dane (01:20:38):
And that usually, from what I've seen, is a lot of
technique.
We almost never see any damageon a seat post from a clamp in a
work stand that has providedyour work stands in good shape
and has protective rubber or orsomething on there, protective
rubber is good, I worked in, yes, for your lubed up stripper.
But um, I've worked in a bikeshop where those little plastic

(01:21:03):
things are so worn out that themetal's poking through yeah you
don't want that and in fact I'veworked in a bike shop where
we're putting rags over that toprotect stuff.
Um, it's a not a big item toorder it's like four bucks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and all themajor companies have replacement
I feel like bike shops need todo that and at home you need to
do that, but that's really allyou're worried about.

(01:21:24):
It's not as critical.
Um, nobody wants to scratch onthere, so you need to be careful
and uh, but you're not intypically going to kill the post
.
The bending will kill the post.
That gets expensive.

Josh (01:21:37):
So just make sure you're not bending it not like putting
it at an angle where the bike isdownward force on the?

Dane (01:21:43):
on the absolutely Like we.
We tilt the bikes all the time.
If I'm doing something quick ona fork and I don't want to
remove it from the bike, I maytilt the bike you know 45 so
that I can have that fork leveland I'm putting all that
pressure on that dropper.
And if it's a really heavy bike, I may just mark where the
dropper was extended out of thebike and use the below the, the
below uh the, the dropper, uhshaft, not the dropper shaft,

(01:22:07):
come on.
Tube, not the stanchion.

Josh (01:22:12):
There we go.
Yeah too, all right, all right,man.
So, uh, not we definitely.
This happens all the time.
We did not get through all ofour stuff.
What we talked about cuttingcarbon bars yes, we talked about
what chain wax we talked about?
Change one thing about it onyour bike at a time.
We covered a little bit up aforecaster, the terravel e-line,
and then we talked aboutdroppers and, like you know,
keep them up when you're notriding them.

Dane (01:22:31):
Yeah, I'll tell you guys that are listening to this.
There's a couple of things thatI would love some feedback If
people want to hit us throughInstagram or Facebook or you can
click that text on our you can,but didn't we find out?
We can't respond.

Josh (01:22:43):
We can, we can.
Uh, well, you got to put yourname or contact information Like
we can't respond directly.

Dane (01:22:48):
We can't respond directly, so, um, but it would be cool
because we're in a particularclimate, if you have a
particular chain lubricant yeah.
Like what do you use that worksbetter in your area and maybe
why you know, or why you choseit.
You know that, uh, becauseagain we're dude, dude, you're
opening the flood doors.

Josh (01:23:07):
We're going to get like 200 people.

Dane (01:23:09):
That's cool, that's actually because I like to
absorb that data and then use it, bring it.

Josh (01:23:15):
Is some guy in.

Dane (01:23:15):
Portland going to be like dude, you're full of crap.

Josh (01:23:17):
I use it for work.
The best answer gets a freeMountain Cog hat.
I'll ship it to you.

Dane (01:23:23):
There you go, the best answer Is that in one of the
videos right did, we werestarting to do videos, so you
should be able to see that.

Josh (01:23:30):
I think, oh, you can see the videos, the hats, yeah.

Dane (01:23:32):
So if you, want one of those hats.
Yeah, just let's.
Let's tell us about your lube.
I have one of those hats and Ilove it.
It's pretty freaking dope it'sa good hat, so yeah, so oh, it
was in ruth she was ruth, ruth,ruth.
Put it on too, yeah so we'resticking them in all the videos.
So if you want one of thosehats, tell us.

Josh (01:23:48):
Tell us which uh chain and right now you can't buy that
hat, so it has to be somethingthat we give it to you.

Dane (01:23:54):
Yeah, I gotta tell you that all of the products we
talked about, none of them weregiven to us nothing.

Josh (01:24:00):
We bought all of them and we get no money, none of those
companies are in contact with us.

Dane (01:24:04):
I just want that clear because if those companies do
want to send us stuff, that'sgreat we do.

Josh (01:24:10):
Yeah, and we do have.
It's interesting the floodgateshave opened a bit in that we do
have a handful of products thatpeople have given us.
Yes, I will tell you that's notquite true, because we talked
about seal it, seal it, and theseal it guy did give me some we
didn't talk about seal it,that's.

Dane (01:24:28):
Oh, that's right, we talked about that before the
podcast that will be coming up,that'll be coming up.
So yeah, so, so.
So that's our good segue beforewe leave, just to let everybody
know that we are starting toget product to.
We don't want to make this areview podcast.
It's not our goal to just belike this is the latest product.
That's not really what we do Imean, if anyone's listened to
this for a while, they they knowthat that's not what we're

(01:24:49):
doing, but it's been kind of funto check out some cool stuff
and we have been contacted by acouple of companies who want our
opinion and what we have toldthem, I would say, is pretty
ringing true.
We would love to try it andtalk about it in an honest way.
That's not a paid advertisement.

Josh (01:25:08):
And we'll likely.
We'll likely, uh, either giveaway or auction off or something
the products Cause we don'tlike we want to keep that.

Dane (01:25:15):
Some of them I'm going to keep.
Uh, I'm going to be straight uphonest Like I.
We just got to tell ourlisteners what we're getting.

Josh (01:25:21):
Like.
We like this so much.
You bastards don't get it If.

Dane (01:25:23):
Squirt sends me a case of Squirt, I'm going to keep one
bottle.
I'm just saying.

Josh (01:25:28):
Can you throw a few my way too?

Dane (01:25:30):
Yeah, dude, I'm telling you I like that stuff, but yeah.

Josh (01:25:35):
Don't say the name of that thing right there.
No, I'm not going to say thename of that thing.
Some of these things areembargoed.

Dane (01:25:46):
Well, and plus we have a whole episode that we're going
to talk about this stuff?

Josh (01:25:50):
Yeah, actually, I think I want to.
He lives here.
I think I want to bring him on,yeah, and I want to have a
conversation not just about hisproduct, but about the process
of launching a new product.

Dane (01:26:00):
Yes, I think that would be a cool concept.
Yeah.

Josh (01:26:14):
And I just want people to know that.
And again, if you have anopinion on this, if you're like
no, I'm not going to listen toyou guys.

Dane (01:26:16):
Don't talk about talking about product.
Let us know we probably ignoreyou, but honestly, no, we will
not ignore you.
We ignore nobody.
But but honestly, we want thatfeedback.
Like we, we're just having funwith this, but it seems like
people really like it and itkeeps growing.
We're still in top 10, bro,yeah, and top 10.
And now people are contactingus which is like crap, crap,
this is cool, you know so.
So if you do have opinions, wereally want to hear those things
because we're running out ofideas.

Josh (01:26:36):
No, we're not running out of ideas.
We got a shit ton of ideas.
You might be running ideas.

Dane (01:26:40):
I never run out.
I got 7000.

Josh (01:26:42):
All right, we love you guys.
Sorry that we rambled for thelast five minutes.

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095 - Bike Shop Secrets: Pro Tips on Carbon Bars, Wax Chain Lube, and Dropper Post Maintenance

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}095 - Bike Shop Secrets: Pro Tips on Carbon Bars, Wax Chain Lube, and Dropper Post Maintenance