108 - Zuma Bike Ranch & Phil’s World Trails: A Unique MTB Experience in Southwest Colorado. - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dane "The Suspension Guru" Hi (00:19):
I feel like I was just here.

Josh "Magellan" Anderson (00:26):
You were just here, brother.
It's a double header.

Dane "The Suspension Guru" H (00:29):
So I got a buddy who did a bike
race this last weekend.

How'd he do.

He did amazing.
Oh, yeah, he's a barber.
He's a mountain biking barber.
Yeah, he's a mountain bikingbarber.
And so he ended up winning.
He won yeah, no shit, you knowhow, how do you win.
He took barber.

yeah, he's a mountain biking barber
and uh, so he ended up winning.
He won, yeah, no shit you knowhow?

Dane "The Suspension Guru" (00:46):
how do you win?
He took a shortcut.
Hey, I read that that's.
I don't know.
That's.
That's patronizing.
I feel like that's patronizing.
Don't give a wah-wah, becauseit should be a total wah-wah.
That wasn't bad delivery, right, I sucked you in.

I don't know, Jake.
What do you think?
How do you think you did?

Jake Quigley - Zuma Bike Ranc (01:14):
I thought it was pretty good,
made me chuckle.

It takes a lot to get me to laugh.
You're just being nice.
My jokes are horrible.

So we got a recommendation a while ago
not that long ago from daveslagle yep from our mtb rides.
He's a previous guest on thepodcast and he said hey, I'm
chilling up in cortez, coloradoriding this weekend.
It's freaking fantastic.
You guys need to talk to mr jayquigley about what he's got
going up here and going on uphere and it is outstanding.

(01:50):
And he sent us he actually sentus some pictures of the views
and things like that yeah, it's,it's pretty amazing up there.

I have ridden up there you have,
yeah, I've done phil's world.
So, uh, from what I understand,jake, you're right near phil's
world, so, and that trailnetwork, and then we we usually
hit phil's world on the way todurango oh right now, like when
we do our trips, we'll do thefriday drive, we'll end up in
phil's world, do the ride there,and then we'll end up in
durango friday night, set upcamp, ride purgatory two days,

(02:18):
and then flagstaff is monday andthen back home, back home
awesome.

So, jake, maybe you could take a
second to introduce yourself.
Man, who are you and what doyou bring to the mountain bike
community?

Jake Quigley - Zuma Bike R (02:30):
Yeah , yeah.
So yeah, my name's Jake and Ilive here in Cortez.
We're actually on the town linebetween Cortez and Dolores.
Our mailing address technicallyis Dolores, but my wife,
jeannie, and I have lived herenow for five years.
I'm the owner and operator ofthe Zuma Bike Ranch.

(02:55):
I say I'm the wearer of manyhats.
We are a parcel.
We have a 40-acre parcel ofland that adjoins the BLM land
on the north and eastern borderwith Philzworld.
So we are on the very northterminus of Philzworld and I got

(03:15):
this crazy idea seven years agothat how cool would it be to
create a space.
You know, we all know themountain bike community, how
special it is, how cool acommunity that it offers folks a
lot of stoke, a lot of fun.
I very much saw that quite abit when I was living in Tucson.
That was where I was reallyfirst introduced to mountain

(03:38):
bike clubs, so to speak.
And so I got this crazy ideathat I wanted to do something
that was going to allow a spacefor mountain bikers to gather,
enjoy each other, enjoy ourworld-class trails here in
Montezuma County.
And, uh, so yeah, startedbuilding trails, started
building out a camp area and abike park, and here we are four

(04:01):
years later, four years later,wow.

And here we are four years later.
Yeah, four years later, wow.
So so maybe for our listenersyou can start to start by
orienting them Like so you're inColorado.
Where?
Where is your location when?
Where is Montezuma County inColorado?

Hold on, I have to take a drink,
cause you said orientate.

Okay, that's our, that's our drinking
game.

If that's our drinking game.
If that word comes up, you haveto drink.
So I hope, baby foot, right nowyou're listening and you take a
drink.

Okay so where is Montezuma County in
Colorado?
Yeah, so southwest Colorado,we've got Dolores County, we've
got San Juan County and we'vegot Montezuma County and we are
kind of in that southwesternchunk of those three counties

(04:50):
and that comprises the towns ofDolores, Cortez and Mancos, and
Mancos is the town thatseparates us from Durango.
So it's kind of thiscombination.
As far as geology we're, we'relike a high desert climate here.
Okay, so a lot of pinyon andjuniper forest.

(05:11):
Uh, we do have canyons thatstart on the south end of the
county and kind of branch upnorth and then those canyons
eventually enter into the sanjuan mountains.
So we're not far from rico,color, colorado, and then
Telluride.
We're about an hour away fromTelluride, colorado.
So we've got a lot of differenttypes of riding.

(05:34):
We've got high desert riding,we've got true Precambrian
desert riding just to the east,which is more kind of like Moab
riding, and then we have highalpine riding and we could be on
the Colorado trail here in 45minutes from the ranch.

Wow , and, and so I I know of that
area because of Cortez trailtrails, I'm sorry, because of
Phil's world, and so if peoplewant to look up this area and a
little bit of the type of riding, you can look up Phil's world.
What's another trail that theymay find?

if well before, before we even get
to another trail, and we'll puta link to phil's world in the in
the show notes yeah, I've neverridden phil's world like I've
heard a lot about it.
Like jake, tell us more likewhat's phil's world about?

yeah , so phil's.
Phil's is a trail network thatstarted kind of as a rogue trail
network, as a lot of trailnetworks start back in the 90s
or whenever, and by this guy,phil and I excuse me, but I
can't remember his last name.
He passed away two years ago,but he was the instigator of
building the original SouthPhil's network and since that

(06:41):
time that was about 25 miles oftrail and then a local trail
stewardship organization startedworking with the BLM chapter
here and continually built thenetwork up to the north.
So now the network is split upinto three regions.
You've got Phil's south, phil'smiddle, phil's North, and all

(07:04):
three together are 62 miles oftrail.

What kind of riding is it Jake?

Jake Quigley - Zuma Bike Ra (07:09):
You got everything from really
smooth low elevation singletrack.
South Phil's is very much knownfor the trail ribcage, which is
a very fast, very fun trail,and there's a lot of others that
are kind of in that reallysmooth, fast, flowy type trail,

(07:31):
high desert kind of soil.
So we get that clay, heavy soilthat really compacts, becomes
like a little concrete tread.
And then the further north yougo in Phil, the canyons get a
little bit deeper, so thatoffers you a little more
diversityyons get a little bitdeeper, so that offers you a
little more diversity in trailand a little more technical.
So you got everything fromsmooth to techie, um, lots of

(07:53):
different options to ride in thetrail network here it's 62
miles right there, right outyour back door yeah right, the
northern terminus I'm looking atright now wow, and for our
listeners, he's looking to hisright, just over his shoulder,
out the window, so this

this concept of having a place for
mountain bikers to camp.
Can you camp at Phil's worldparking lot Like you can't?

you cannot.

Yeah , and so, like when I go to a
place and I want to go ride atrail if I'm traveling I just
did a big trip with my familyand a camper.
This would be perfect to knowabout these places Because we
did Los Ueno Bike Park, whichI've talked about in San Diego,
where you can go right to there.
They have a campground and thenthey have a shuttle going right
there from the campground up tothe top of the mountain.

(08:41):
I think the future of mountainbiking is to have something like
this at each big trail network.
I think it's it's a way foreverybody to be super involved
and get them to go out and, youknow, get the families involved.

And, of course, what we're talking
about is the Zuma Bicycle Ranch,which you own and are the
original operator and starter ofthat.
As I understand it, Jake, Tellus some more about your bike
ranch man.

Yeah , yeah, so the idea started
around 2019, 2018.
I was actually living in NewHampshire and I was working for
a merino wool company there, andI met a woman at a trade show.

Wait, hang on a second.
You went from merino wool toowning a bike ranch.

I did, I did.
You might be my hero right now.
Go ahead.

It was a very cool company.

Ibex Outdoor Clothing was the brand
and we had a bike line, a merinowool bike line.
We had shorts, bibs jerseys,and I was part of the product
testing team there.
All right, it was pretty neat.
But I was internal sales andthe Rockies was one of my
regions, so I worked with ourexternal reps.

(10:01):
So I worked with our externalreps and that's when I met this
woman who owned the I think it'sthe Whitefish Bike Retreat was
the name of her, her outfit, andit was a little bit different.
She was right there on a maintrail network as well, on the
Whitefish Mountain Trail, and Iwas just blown away by this

(10:23):
concept she came up with, which.
She had a little lodge.
It was nothing special, um, butshe had her own little trail
network and she was right outthe door to a much larger trail
network and I was just like howcool is that?
So I got a crazy idea ofputting chicken scratch on paper
and starting a business planidea of putting chicken scratch

(10:48):
on paper and starting a businessplan.
And my wife and I knew we weregoing to come back to Colorado
after she was done with school,so I started.
We started looking at areas wewanted to land and then I kind
of formulated this big checklistOkay, we're going to look for
land that just got to have thisand this and this and this and
we just found the ideal spothere, where we are, on a canyon.
I've been a professionalmountain bike instructor for six

(11:12):
years, so I've traveled thecountry doing a lot of that,
both with another company andthen on my own, and one of the
biggest tricky things is findinga trail network with everything
you need to run like a fullweekend long, you know, trail
mountain bike clinic.

Right.

And I took all that and basically
had the luxury of buildingeverything I need right here on
the ranch.

Wow , that's have you.
Have you?
Have you reached out tomanufacturers, product
manufacturers?

Why would he do that?

Well , cause what we're testing for
testing.
So in in Tucson and in Sedonawe've done a lot of podcasts
with different product managersand stuff from different
companies and they struggle forthey struggle for location.
They struggle for a locationwhere they can get everybody
together, that they can geteverything done.
They can do their media camp,they can do everything.

It's got the diversity of trail that
they need.

Yeah , test all the different
products Exactly and do itwithout a lot of prying eyes.
You know, sometimes it'sprototype work or it's product
or stuff and I feel like youknow, you, sure sure sure, and I
feel like you've got a nichethat they could.

I think you just signed us up for
an action man, yeah serious, Ithink you just signed us up to
hook Jacob.

I think I did.

Yeah.

Well , we talked about this with
Shimano when we were doing theXTR launch stuff and I know that
we've talked I've talked toSRAM about it.

And I know.

DVO was just out in Tucson and they
were running into the samething, trying to figure out a
place where they can they cantest product, you know, and have
everything in one spot and notbe super inconvenient and
driving all over the place, youknow.
So that'd be, I feel, like you.
You've got a good thing goingthere, that that that's another
avenue for you to maybe look at,but what is it that you got
going there, jake?

tell us more about the ranch and
like in, like how's it set up?
What do you offer in mountainbikers?
Yeah, yeah, so we offer acouple different things.
In the services realm.
I do private instructions.
So I'll work one-on-one withfolks, uh, based very
specifically on on differentriding goals.
You know, where do they want toget in their riding?
What sort of skills do theyreally really want to hone in on

(13:32):
?
So I like working one-on-onewith folks because that offers
me a really really goodopportunity to ask, like, where
are you at with your riding andwhere do you want to be by the
end of this season or the end ofnext week or whatever?

and you can tell I'd like to do that
, tailor that instruction,private clinics.

Jake Quigley - Zuma Bike Ran (13:49):
So I'll get a lot of people that
will approach me and say, hey,I've got three friends and we're
all kind of at that same levelof riding and we want to work on
jumping or we want to work ondrops or technical climbing.
So that's cool too, because youget that people all are in a
very similar wheelhouse from askill perspective and are

(14:12):
looking for a very, verysignificant, um, specific
outcome.
And then I offer, uh, publicclinics.
So I'll break things down intolike, uh, a fundamental clinic
where people that are maybenewer to riding, or people that
have been riding for like 20years but never really got any

(14:33):
sort of instruction 50 years ago, when all the different ski
resorts around the world startedsaying, well, if we're going to
teach this sport, there's gotto be like a way to do it that
we're not all teaching itdifferent ways in different
continents.
And that's where PSIA came fromand that's very much where

(14:55):
mountain biking is at right now,which is really cool.
So, yeah, I offer those clinics.
The other thing that we've beenoffering, which has been really
cool, is we've been renting theproperty to other mountain bike
companies, organizations,specifically instruction

(15:15):
companies and companies thatcertify mountain bike
instructors.
So this season we had NinjaMountain.
Pike Performance comes and I'man instructor trainer for that
company, so they come out and doa clinic twice a year.
Uh, we recently had a localwoman's program called Dirty

(15:37):
Wheels, based out of Durango.
They just uh three weeks agothey did a woman's retreat.
It was a three-day retreat, 20participants and I think they
had eight coaches here allweekend.
It's fantastic, that's so funny.

I think one of the girls from
Dirty Wheels actually works forme.
Oh really, Small world.

Keep going, Jake.

Then we had BICP was here, and
they're one of the two.

The Insane Clown Posse was there.
Wait a minute.
The Insane Clown Posse wasthere.

I don't think that's what he's
saying.
Yeah, the ICP, that's.
That's a band from Detroit, arap band.

I'm sorry.
Here we go on the random.

Josh "Magellan" Anderso (16:27):
Juggalo reference.

Dude the Juggalos are legit.
The random Juggalo reference.

Jake's looking at us like he has no
idea what you're talking about.
Just for the reference, jake,after this I'll send you some
links to some insane clown possemusic.

Yes , yeah, I'd like to hear it All
right, b-i-c-p.
I have to throw in a little bit.

Yes, I know, every once in a while
this is what you do.
If we don't chuckle, it's notworth it.
Okay, b-i-c-p.
Keep going, keep going, jake.
Sorry that we interrupted you.

No , no problem at all.
Yeah, so we had that back inJune and July, so that was
really cool.
And then in September just in alittle over a month we're going
to have Ladies All Ride isdoing a women's bike retreat
here as well Awesome.

Dane "The Suspension Gur (17:15):
That's awesome.
So, like big retreats andevents.

Yeah.

So what's your space?
Like, Like you've got your.
Is it just a campground?
You said you have a bike park.
Do you have a little bike park?
I do yeah, so tell us aboutthat.

Yeah , so our property is 40 acres.
About a third of that is up ona plateau and the other
two-thirds falls down into acanyon and a draw.
Two-thirds falls down into acanyon and a draw.
Um, so the bike park we have isup on, you know, a flat area of

(17:51):
the land and I have a drillzone, I have a tabletop jump
line, I have a pump track, uh, Ihave like a drill zone where I
have a bunch of differentfeatures, um, a lot of them
inspired by fork tut hill, whichI'm sure both of you are
familiar with.

Yeah , that's in Flagstaff.
Yeah, that's amazing.

And then I have about two miles of
trail that I've built and veryspecifically built trail based
on the, the geology of thehillside and the draw we have a
lot of slick rock, we have a lotof steep features.
We have a lot of slick rock, wehave a lot of steep features.
So my trails have been builtspecifically around taking

(18:35):
skills to trail after.
I work on drills, so I have acornering trail called TV Dinner
.
I have another fun trail calledWiley's Way.
Then we have a trail called SixShooter and another trail
called Rabbit Hole.
So we've got fun trails,they're all different.
And then we have a trail calledsix shooter and another trail
called rabbit hole.
So we've got fun trails,they're all different.
And uh, then we have a dropzone and we have two drops
Bonnie and Clyde.

Nice , and then you said you have a
lot of fun to be had on yourbike here.
Yeah, and then you have campingon on site.

We do.
We have eight basic campsitesand we have a heated shower,
heated sun shower.
It's kind of cool.
It's an outdoor shower.
It's probably the biggestamenity that people rave the
most about in their Googlereviews.
And then we just we do portapotties because it's the most
environmentally friendly, it'sthe easiest and the company that

(19:24):
provides us those.
They're really nice and we keepthem good and clean.
So that's that's the route wedecided to go there.

That makes sense.

So what's the total occupancy?
How many people can you fitinto your camp zone at one time?

Uh , we have eight campsites.
Uh, one vehicle per site.
Usually that's anywhere betweenone and four people, so four
times eight.

32 okay, yeah, and then private
events will adjust.

That , you know, because that's a
private event.
So you know, if they want to goa little bit over that number,
we can definitely make that work, because sometimes they have
vendors come and vendors willwant to set a tent up and
they'll have their own vehiclesand stuff like that and do you
have seasons like uh, yeah, likewhen is a good time to ride?

yeah, like, do you guys ride ride 24 7
, 365, or do you guys haveseasons that you, you operate?

uh , the climate here offers us,
surprisingly, almost year-roundriding.
Oh, that's nice.
One of the areas just to thewest of us is the Canyon of the
Ancients National Monument, andpart of that is called Sand
Canyon.
It's one of the only, if notthe only, national monuments you
can ride a mountain bike on.
Oh, that's cool, which ispretty special, and I've ridden

(20:48):
that trail network in Januaryand and february every year
we've lived here, oh wow.
And phil's world is usuallyabout a nine month riding season
.
You know, come, come novemberwe can get a snowfall, and some
winters are big, some wintersare small, but usually the soil
given the freeze thaw plus themoisture moisture fills are
usually shut down for threemonths.

Does it fills the world?
Get hot in the summer.

It does get warm.
This year we had a very mildspring.
We had 70s all the way upthrough July 4th and then July
4th hit and we've been in thehigh 80s, low 90s um most every
day.
That's not hot, no.

I know, given your, your weather,
of course when you said you'rean hour from Telluride.
Is that the closest like pinetree riding or is there closer
pine tree riding?

uh , closest pine tree riding to us
actually is not far.
Um, we graduate once you startdriving North to Dolores, the
town you graduate up intoPonderosa pine forest.

Is there a trail?

Oh , there's a there's another
large trail network up therecalled Boggy draw.
Oh, that's got 70 miles oftrail.

Yeah , Uh, that's what Dave mentioned
, that you guys hit uh whileyou're out there, yeah, so
that's a really cool area, yeah,and that's close to mentioned
that you guys hit while you wereup there.
Yeah, that's a really cool area, yeah, and that's close to you,
so you could be a good hub forjumping off to doing different
trails around the area.

Yeah yeah.
And Boggy's a great trailnetwork to just put lots of
miles in.
It is just above McPheeReservoir, which is a very I
think, one of the largestreservoirs in the southwest
Colorado, and it doesn't havebig elevation gain and loss.
A lot of the trails are notvery technical, so you could

(22:33):
just put in 30, 40, 50 mileswithin a pretty decent time just
because you're making ground,and so it's a fun early season
space to go to get your legsback.
It's great for families, it'sgreat for, you know, newer
riders that are looking forsomething fairly simple and easy

(22:54):
and aren't interested in allthe technical riding out there.
So it could.
It's also a good diversity forfor all our riding networks
around.

So if somebody stays with you, do
you have like a maps you givethem, or like, if they're like,
hey, I'm going to stay there andI have three days of writing,
do you have like?

yeah, what are the top three places
you would recommend they write?

Not only that, but like what levels
of assistance do you give them?
You know, from from zero, Iguess.
To like guided tours, likewhere are you at?

Jake Quigley - Zuma Bike (23:26):
Right , yeah, we.
Um, I try to make it a point tomeet every guest.
So anytime we get a camper, uh,each campsite has a little
placard and you know, beforepeople arrive their camp pad
gets raped and I put stickers ontheir placard and a welcome,

(23:47):
and then I try not to beobtrusive but I come down on my
bike and just say hello and italways ends up in a fun
conversation and people arealways interested in yeah, tell
us where we need to ride.
So I'm always giving out trailbeta, which is a lot of fun, and
we get campers from all overthe place around the world.
I would say we intentionallymarket it as a bike ranch, so

(24:13):
everybody that comes here is abiker.
That's cool All the vehicleshave bikes on them.

Yeah .

And you just get to meet these
people and give them the intelof not only where should they go
ride, but you know where arethe good restaurants, You've got
great breweries, You've got acidery, you know you've got two
really good bike shops.
So I really try to get peopleto get into the community and

(24:40):
visit all the cool things we'vegot, whether it's before or
after their ride.

So maybe double click on that a
little bit.
Tell us about the localamenities that are there, not
too far from you, that folks canpartake in.

Yeah , yeah, so we're 10 minutes
equidistant from Cortez anddowntown Dolores, each town.
Cortez is our bigger town,that's the one that's going to
have the fast foods, theWalmarts, the grocery stores,
and it also has our biggest bikeshop, oldest bike shop,
cocopelli Bike and Board, andtheir fantastic shop.

(25:15):
We have a brewery there, wildEdge Brewing.
We've got a couple of reallygood restaurants, a lot of cool
events.
We have a local radio stationthere and then, if you go to
Dolores, we also have a brewery.
In Dolores we have the sisterstore to Cocopelli Bike and

(25:37):
Board, which might be one of thecoolest bike shops I've ever
been in, because it's inside anold mercantile building that's
been restored.
So I always tell people ifyou're going to go to the
Dolores bike shop, ask for atour, and Scott will always give
people the lowdown on this.
Used to be a meat processingplant and they have the original

(25:58):
, you know, chain elevator thatwould bring the sides of beef
down into the ice and then backup, and so that's a really cool
town, also a couple of reallygood restaurants and coffee
houses up there.
And then we have Mancos, to theeast, and that's a pretty cool
town too.
That's something I haven'tmentioned is in Mancos.

(26:20):
We're also in the San JuanNational Forest and there's a
lot of high alpine riding thereas well.
That also bridges up to theColorado Trail.

Wow.
So it sounds like you've got,just within like a 30-minute
drive of where you're at, kindof riding that could facilitate
or please any level of rider.
Is that a fair assessment?

That is absolutely a fair assessment
.

And so somebody can drive camp at
your place.

Get knowledge of what's going on At
the Zuma Bicycle Ranch.

Zuma Bicycle Ranch.
But they can just set up campthere.
They can make it their basecamp, they can get when they get
there, they're not just gettinga campsite.
So the reason I say this isbecause I just went through this
where we had to figure outwhere to camp on our trip.
We really did it trying tofigure out where to go.

For context, Dane did a
cross-country trip from Tucsonup to Whistler.

Yeah , oh, a cross country trip from
Tucson up to Whistler yeah.
Oh, wow, yeah, and back, and sowe basically every night camped
somewhere.
Sometimes we spent two days,you know, like at Yosemite or
the Redwoods but, and atWhistler we were there for three
days but pretty much had tofigure out a way along the way
so somebody could hit your placeand hit all of these things

(27:40):
from one spot.
That was one of the hardestthings in my travels that I had
was evaluating so a littlesidebar, we were going into
Sidequest that's what people say.

Josh "Magellan" Ander (27:50):
Sidequest Sidequest.

Dane "The Suspension Gu (27:51):
Sidecar .
So we were going to Idaho Fallsand we needed just a place to
stay overnight because we weremeeting my wife's friend who
lived there, so we didn't wantto camp too far out of town and
have to drive back into town.
And so I think she found like aKOA or one of those camp
companies that lists them.
It's like a KOA.

(28:12):
I'm picturing a Bob orsomething, I can't remember, but
anyway, so it looked good.
It's like oh, we got trees andwe got a playground and we got a
pool and showers, you know.
So you're like oh, this soundsgreat.
We show up and it's next tothis huge, like grain silo, like
an industrial park, you knowlike our view was that.

(28:32):
You know what I mean, and it itlooked great online, but it you
only got this idea.
You know from that, and sohaving.
I can tell you you're not goingto see that at the zuma bike no,
but that's what I mean is likeas somebody who's traveling,
especially if you're travelingwith bikes, having a bike
specific camping place andhaving that knowledge that when
you get there somebody is goingto help you find trails.

(28:55):
You know like you usually don'thave the time to sit there and
figure everything out, or it'sreally intensive.
You guys can kind of cut a lotof corners for them so they can
travel to Colorado Phil's World,which is world famous, hit that
trail and then see a bunch moreand you can help them do that
and that's a big advantage.
So I'm just pointing that outas somebody who just went

(29:18):
through this and I could usethat.

Jake, you mentioned a couple things
that I don't know, so I'm goingto double-click on those things
real quick.
The first thing you said wascidery that I don't know what is
a cidery.

A cidery is a fermentation
process that takes apples andmakes alcoholic beverages out of
them and interestingly enough,this valley I think it was up
till the 1950s was one of thecountry's largest exporters of
apples, and that just blew meaway.

(29:54):
I was like we're high desert,how do we produce apples?
But there are orchards all overthis valley and most of them
are dormant or dying and anorganization started called the
Montezuma Orchard RestorationProject and they partnered with

(30:23):
this cidery business and startedoffering landowners that had
existing orchards on their landto buy their apples.
Say, let's get these orchardshealthy, up and back and running
.
So now we've got orchards thatare kind of making a comeback.

(30:44):
They'll never be exportingapples, but this two cideries
now are buying apples and so allthe apples that are used for
their products are sourced righthere in the county.

Dane "The Suspension Gur (30:56):
That's cool, that is cool.
My wife loves apple ciders.

Okay.
So the next thing you said andwe should know this and I'm
probably going to get this wrong, so you're going to have to
correct me but you talked aboutthe I think you said PSAA
standards for instruction.
Do I have that right?

Yeah , PSIA.

PSIA.

Papa .

Sierra India.

Yeah , what is that?

so tell us about psia, because
dane and I don't know whatyou're talking about so that
stands for professional skiinstructor association and that
is back in the 1950s that thatentity began, after a national

(31:41):
effort to simplify andstandardize how the sport of
skiing is taught.
Because, you know, europe taughtit one way, the US taught it
another, canada taught itanother, south America had their
own way, taught in another,south America their own way, and

(32:01):
it just everyone started tothink you know what?
Let's just figure out what'sthe best way to teach this sport
.
And so PSIA is the lead agencythat if you want to become a ski
instructor, you're going to getcertified at one level or
another to then, whether youwork at a ski resort and you
work for their ski school, oryou pursue becoming a private

(32:22):
instructor.
And mountain biking wentthrough that same process in the
late 90s, early 2000s.
So now if you want to pursuebecoming a mountain bike
instructor, there are twoorganizations.
One is based in BritishColumbia, the other is based
here in Colorado, and they arethe international standard.
So most larger mountain bikeinstruction companies, if you

(32:45):
want to go work for them, you'regoing to have to have some
level of certification.

And so I'm picking up, based on what
you talked about first, that abig part of your business plan
and your business model and yourobjective is around instruction
.
How did you get into being amountain bike instructor.

Well , that brings me back to when I
was in Tucson and John Hyman,who at the time was owner of
Southwest Trucking.
We moved out there and I hadstepped down from working on the
vendor side in the outdoorindustry and we knew we were
only going to be in Tucson for ayear and I was like I need a
job.
And a friend of mine at thattime, um, knew of this company

(33:27):
and so I I gave him a call and Italked to John and John and I
sat down for a cup of coffee andhe's an interesting guy, and he
said, well, yeah, I would beinterested, but I got to see a
ride.
So I went up to the jw marriott, yeah, one day.
a little bit nervous and we wentout for a ride there, uh, on

(33:50):
the genser trails, and I guess Ipassed this test.
He hired me, and so that wasthe beginning of my my career in
mountain bike guiding, whichthen grew into mountain bike
instructing.

What was the process like?
What did it take to become acertified mountain bike
instructor?

The first thing I did was this
company, ninja Mountain BikePerformance, this company, ninja
Mountain Bike Performance.
They're the largest company nowin the world as far as teaching
mountain biking and I wasintroduced to them through a
friend and they had me shadowone of their clinics in Sedona
and I met a couple of theirinstructors there and I rode

(34:32):
with them and they said, yeah,you know, we'd love it if you
would consider becoming aninstructor, but you need to go
get your certification.
So I did, I pursued that.
I utilized BICP at the time toget my level one and that
cleared me with Ninja to becomean instructor and I started off

(34:55):
as an assistant instructor thereand then, about a year in, I
was hired up to a leadinstructor and as the company
grew, we had to have some way tokeep tabs and the level of
quality of our instruction.
So we created a team ofinstructor trainers there were

(35:20):
nine of us originally around thecountry and we basically were
there for our instructors tohelp them with the curriculum,
help them with their own riderdevelopment based on.
You know, what are youraspirations in mountain bike
instruction?
Do you want to just be anassistant or do you eventually
want to be a lead.
What levels of mountain bikingdo you want to teach?
So I've.

(35:41):
I've done that ever since.

Are you okay if we double click a
little bit on the instructionthing, cause I'm super
interested in this.
Is that okay?

with you.

Jake.
So so I imagine, at this pointyou've instructed many, many
people at all different levels.

Could you help us maybe understand,
like what are the top?
Yes, if you're a beginningrider or if you've been riding
for 20 years, the dynamics withmodern bikes and us on the bike
is it's such a dynamicrelationship between the two
that back in the late 90s oreven late 80s, you know we were

(36:32):
on these rigid bikes, hard forks, and we were very much just on
these bikes for the ride.

You know the bikes were on and on.
Hold on and try to survive.

Yeah , and what's changed is, you
know these bikes have becomesuch dynamic vehicles.
You know, when it comes totechnology of suspension and the
geometries now and the dropperpost, we all know how much a
game changer that was.
Absolutely so.
It's fundamental skills.
Just learning your way aroundthis dynamic bike and the best

(37:09):
you know UCI racers, you'll seethey always come back to
fundamental skills.
We call them bike bodyseparation skills.
We call them bike bodyseparation and it's the
relationship to us, our upperbodies, where we carry the
majority of our weight in thecenter of mass of that bike and,
depending on what the trail isuphill, downhill, cornering it's

(37:29):
that constant dynamicrelationship about shifting and
aligning your center of masswith that bike center of mass.

I call it whipping your bike wherever
whenever and however you want,based on the terrain Interesting
Okay.

That's number one.
What's number two?
Number two getting the righttechniques when things get
technical.
You know, we all know,particularly you guys in Tucson
has some of the most challengingriding in the lower 48.
You can get hurt pretty easyright.

(38:07):
Regularly Sorry.
Fort Tuthill is a perfectexample.
Bentonville would be anotherone that I teach at, where I see
a lot of people getting wayover their heads, whether it's
on a jump line or a wooden dropdeck zone, and they think they
could just do it, and I've seensome pretty big crashes as a
result of that, and it's one ofthose things where if you just

(38:31):
invest money, a couple hours ofyour time and money to learn how
to do it right, you're going tobe safer, you're going to be
more controlled and when you'rethose two things together,
you're going to be moreconfident and you're going to
become a better rider a lotfaster.

Right on.
So so you talked about bike.
Body separation is number oneand and I loved your, your quote
there, um, could you restate itfor me, the quote that you said
whipping your bike around?

Yeah , whipping your bike around
wherever, whenever, however youwant.

I also call it the dance.

When people come to my clinics.
I said y'all don't know it, butyou signed up for a dance class
.

I like that because it's really about
being fluid and loose andadjusting adjusting your, your
technique, to the, to theterrain as it as it comes upon
you yeah, yeah, I, I know thebike body separation thing,
something I've heard all thetime had a hard time kind of
understanding what it reallymeant you have to stand up to

(39:31):
get that to happen but I, I dostand up, you, you're just
giving me shit, um, but uh waitwe should give Jake some context
, so like.
so, dane is.
Dane is a downhill racer, I'man old school old school
downhill racer.

So some of the terms that are new.
Yeah, you, you don't have likewe talked about in geometry and
like bike design and stuff.

Uh and stuff.
Uh, I'm used to older terms, sowhat's an old way of saying
bike body separation?
Like, um, I don't know if thereis one, dane, so is this a new
thing which?

would, which would exactly exemplify
your writing, the.
The funny thing is is that daneis two times, maybe three times
, faster than me.
I'm a intermediate rider.
At best he's's an expert riderRace semi-pro downhill racer and
I ride behind him and I'vetaken a bunch of lessons and
courses and instruction and mywife is amazing they're trying

(40:24):
to get her to be an instructorso I try to do all the things
that I'm supposed to do probablyall the things that you teach
and then I go ride with Dane,who does none of them but rides
three times faster than me.
It's fantastic.
So it doesn't surprise me thatyou're not tracking with the
bikes.

Body separation well, and it's not
so much that I don't even knowwhat that means.
You know, like, uh, when Ilearned, I didn't.
I never took a lesson, you know.
So, like he said, there'speople that that have been
riding for years.
Don't think they need a lesson.

I want to take lessons now because I
want to relearn well, it soundslike we got a trip to the right
exactly, yeah but the bike bodyseparation, like jody coach,
jody talks about that and I'mlike what does that mean?
Like your bike away from yourbody yeah, but I do that okay.
Well then you're doing, youjust don't know the term okay,
so like standing standing upyeah, drop your seat, post all

(41:17):
the way down to start.

I can't do that.
I have to use my knees.

Uh, but uh you're keeping your bike
connected to your body connectedto your body.

Yeah , that's.
That's an anomaly.

Well, he is an anomaly, he's a weird,
a weird person to.

to be fair, I have bad knees and
so I have a hard time puttingall of my weight on my knees,
and so when I go into a corner Iwill have my post halfway down,
not all the way, you know.
You know we brought this up inthe podcast before.
I kind of I chuckle, causepeople will come in and buy a
$300 dropper post in order toget two inches more of that post

(41:58):
in the bike yeah To get twomore inches of drop and I'm like
I never use more than a hundredmillimeters of post drop, even
if I've got 150, um, because Ialways use my thighs and my legs
to brace against my saddle.
So when I'm going, yeah so.

So maybe we can get a little free
coaching.
Jake, you can tell Dane whythat's wrong.

Well , I and I don't know if, if I
have a physical limitation thatcauses that so, or if it's just
a technique thing.

So yeah, what do you think?
What would you say if Dan camein and you were coaching Dane
and he saw him just 30 miles anhour down the trail, just
absolutely ripping like you'restruggling to keep up with him,
but his technique is like notwhat you would teach.
What would you tell him?

Well , first thing I'll say, Dane, is
I was always the late adopterof technology on bikes.
You know, when front suspensioncame, I was like, eh, who needs
that?
Rear suspension?
Eh, I don't need that.
And when I went to Sedona tomeet these bike instructors, I
also did not have a dropper onmy Santa Cruz.

(43:02):
And everyone was like, oh, it'ssuch a game changer.
And I was like, eh, I couldride everything, I don't need a
dropper.
But I knew if I showed up as anapprentice without a dropper on
my bike I was going to belaughed away.
Yeah, so I actually went and Ibought the dropper the week
before I went to Sedona toshadow that clinic and riding

(43:23):
with these guys, one of themmade the comment Jake, you don't
use your dropper very much,I've gotten that comment before.
But, yeah, I think that peopledo what works for them when it
comes.
You mentioned that.
You know you have somelimitations, whether it's due to

(43:44):
past injury or something else,but there are definitely people
that you have to work aroundtheir, their body dynamics.
Some people aren't as asflexible as others and you'll
have to kind of you know,accommodate for that or or at

(44:06):
least have that understandingthat, okay, this person might
not be able to lean that bikedown as far as I want them to,
Um, but there's always waysaround that.
Um, I think people like yourselfyou know you've raced at a
really high level, right?
So the riding that you do works, and I've, if I've ridden with
you, I don't remember it, butI've ridden with a lot of people

(44:29):
that make their own riding workbecause they've just done it
for that long riding work,because they've just done it for
that long.
With people like that, I askthem to just be open sponges and
try something different.
Um, I have a good friend herewho is a former world cup pro

(44:50):
cross-country racer and when weride together, he he gets very,
very frustrated because herefuses to try some of the newer
skills of mountain biking, andanytime we get to a very, very
gradual downhill.
You know, let's say like aquarter mile downhill, and his

(45:14):
MO is to pedal through all that.
And I use pressure control,where I don't pedal at all, I
just use.
You know the rises and valleysin the trail and all of my body
weight and as we're going downthese trails, I'll pull further
and further and further awayfrom him, and it drives him

(45:35):
absolutely nuts.
But he refuses to try what Isuggest.
So we, we have a lot of fungiving each other a hard time
about that, and it's.
It's not that one way is betterthan another.
You know, uh, we're asinstructors.
I'm not here to say, hey, your,your way of writing is wrong and
mine is right, it's just adifferent.

(45:56):
I call it new school riding.
It's, it's a different ridingthan I used to do back in
college.
Um, it's made me such astronger rider, just because it
always gives me something tothink about on trail.
You know, for years and years Iwould just ride and it's great
fun, but I could say after awhile my riding kind of

(46:18):
plateaued because it was, uh,not that it was boring, but it
was.
You never really thought aboutit, you just went down the trail
.
And then, once I learned allthese different things that you
can do and think about whenyou're riding based on the trail
, it's just, it's brought awhole different level of riding
out for me yeah, I.

I my I'm getting my kids into it,
which is really fun, and I'mnot a good instructor, uh you
are I, I try, but I don't.
I, you know, one of the thingsthat instructors do that I think
is a real skill is they getsomething to click.
You know they get that to clickwith somebody.
Yeah and I have a harder time Iover explain.
But, uh, I took my daughter, Italked my daughter's team, or

(47:00):
NICA team, into going out to thepump track one night and cause
my daughter didn't quiteunderstand.
You know why are we going tothe pump track?
And I love, love the pump track.
My son loves the pump track andmy daughter's like I don't,
this isn't, this isn't what Ineed, you know, you know for
cross-country racing, and I'mlike it totally is.
And then, yeah, uh, you know, Iwould show her how, basically,

(47:21):
you can pick up speed, like youwere talking about.
You can use your mass and yourmomentum to push down on the
down slope and actually pick upspeed and then unweight yourself
, uh, reduce friction on the, onthe, on the uphill, and then so
you can, you can literally ridethe entire pump track with
never pedaling, which is awesomeand that's.
That's what we challenged allthe kids to do is like that was

(47:42):
the goal.
You've got a tonight, you'regoing to ride the pump track and
the goal is to, at the end ofthis, be able to ride the entire
pump track with never pedaling.
So and that's something that,when you apply it to the trail,
it's free speed, you know.

Oh yeah, and that's how I describe
it, yeah.

Exactly , and so there's there's really
good uses for all of thesethings.
So I love that you're out doingthat and like showing people
that.
I love to hear that there'ssomebody else out there that's
stuck in their old ways.
So, like you know, your worldcup buddy, you know cause mine
is the biggest thing is I speedjump and that's my.
I'm trying to overcome thishuge uh habit and like need to

(48:24):
speed jump.
When I hit a double uh jump ora table, I suck it up like crazy
.
I get almost zero height off ofthat thing and then I push down
the backside as fast as I can,and I'm very fast, you know, but
I'm the most un like, uh,impressive.

Josh "Magellan" Anders (48:41):
Unsteasy .

Dane "The Suspension G (48:42):
Unsteasy , unrizzy.
Um, I'm very skibbity, ohio onmy sorry, that's my son's
language.
Um, I am I have no no likestyle at all Like the most
boring guy to watch.
Hit a jump, you know, and thenmy buddy will pop off the jump.
I will waste him by a minute ona downhill and but everybody

(49:04):
wants to see him cause he popsoff that jump and has this cool
looking hang time and just getsthe bike sideways and does a
whip and stuff, and so that'swhat I'm trying to learn and
relearn.
But when I'm scared, uh.
So like I was testing thisframework spike, and when I hit
a jump the first time on a newbike, I went right back to that

(49:25):
old habit.
I sucked that jump up, you know, and sailed over it and just
backsided it, no problem but,and picked up a ton of speed.
But it was the most boringthing to see because you're like
your foundations are rooted inracing.
Yes, yeah, and that's the thingis.
I'm trying to break free ofthat and that's really hard to
do so, so I'm definitely gonnabe taking some lessons to try

(49:46):
and fix that.

So yeah, yeah, Come you know, when
you come and visit we'll, we'lldo a jump clinic.

Yeah .

That's what probably one of my
favorite things to teach.

Yeah , standing up at the jump is
something that you know it'slike, yeah, people just say it,
but trying to do it and toremember and you just got to
practice over and over again.

My wife and son took a jump clinic
in the last couple months fromJoanna Yates up in Sedona.

Joanna was here last week, was she?
Oh nice, right on, yeah, great,we love Joanna, yeah In.
Oh nice, right on yeah.

Dane "The Suspension Guru (50:14):
Great , we love Joanna.
Yeah, in fact, she's a realjump clinic.

Oh nice, very cool.
Yeah, she probably taught someof that stuff to Lacey, but my
wife kind of was teaching me andwe've got a little jump line
here in one of our trails it'sFantasy Island and the jumps
aren't very big.

Dane "The Suspens (50:38):
No-transcript it works.
Oh my god, it works.

Josh "Magellan" Anderso (50:42):
They're not the best timing no, they're
not the best timing you have tolike slow down in the middle
they definitely could be betterdesigned.
Jake, I hate to do this to you,man, but we are like kind of
gear nerds and you know Daneowns a bike shop.
I have a, a bike shop here.
I'm uh in my garage here.
I'm really interested in likewhat you're riding uh.

(51:04):
Is that will kind of help tellus more about the type of trails
that you have there?

yeah , uh, I am a brand ambassador
for revel bikes in carbondale,colorado, outstanding.

I'm glad that they're still sticking
around, man.

Glad that they are still sticking
around, glad that Adam got thecompany back and is bringing it
back to its roots.
Super cool company.
I've known a couple of peoplethere and back in my days
working at Ibex, that companyreminded me a lot.
Pretty small in-house crew,yeah, and they're just really

(51:42):
cool people, really passionateabout the bikes they build from
a research standpoint, all theway to supporting nonprofits,
and so, yeah, I ride the Rascaland I also have the Rail 29.

Nice I borrowed a Rascal and got to
ride it.

Josh "Magellan" Ander (51:59):
surprised the heck what are the
suspensions of those those twoframes?

Dane "The Suspension G (52:01):
canfield cv.
Cbp is the suspension type butwhat?

what is the?

because I've got a ranger sitting in my
garage right now but that'slike their cross-country bike,
right, yeah, so so rascals 130rear, 140 front or one Rascal is
130 rear, 140 front or 150?

Rascal is 140 front, 130 rear and the
Rail is 160 front, 155 rear, butthey just replaced the Rail 29,
and I'm bummed about thatbecause I love that bike If you
know anyone.

I got a medium.
I got one in the shop, a mediumright now that we're trying to
sell.
It's set up 170 155 you don'toverstroke everything man, yeah,
you know what we're.
We're in rockville, tucson, youknow.
And so a little bit taller inthe front end keeps your bottom
bracket up and you pedal strikeless.
So I can tell you, at corteznot as big a deal because it's

(52:55):
pretty smooth rolling, like he's.
At least the trails that Iwrote at Phil's world were
smooth rolling.
They definitely have rocksthere, but here it's like rock
gardens.
You, you, you practically livedat star pass.
You know how it is there.
So yeah.
Yeah.

Yeah , so what do you?
Ride trails.

What do you ride more?
Do you ride the rail or Rascalmore?

You know I got to say I ride the
Rail 2.9 more.
When they first came out withthat bike, I was talking to Matt
Hoogenboom, their VP of sales,and my good friend Brian Danz,
who at the time worked for thecompany, who's also a mountain
bike instructor, and he said yougot to get on this bike.
Who's also a mountain bikeinstructor.
And he said you got to get onthis bike.

(53:39):
I like to climb.
I'm one of those sick peoplethat likes really nasty, gnarly
long climbs for some stupidreason.
So I immediately dismissed thatbike because I was like a bike
with 155, a travel in the backis not going to be able to climb
.
So they went to the TellurideBlues and Brews Festival and
brought a bunch of their bikesand they called me up and they

(54:00):
said hey, we're going to be justnorth of you.
If you want to come ride thatbike, you should come ride it.
So I did.
I went up and actually tookAdam Miller's bike out for a
ride and I took it up.
This trail called the Jeb WeebyTrail, which is basically two
miles of absolute hell trailcalled the Jeb Weeby trail,

(54:21):
which is basically two miles ofabsolute hell, and I I'd be damn
that thing climb like a Billygoat and I was just blown away.
A bike with that much travel inthe back and it's that Canfield
platform.
You know, I've seen a lot ofdifferent suspension designs and
there's just something aboutthat platform that makes it
perform.
So I was like, all right,that's the next bike I want,
send me one, yeah yeah, yeah.

Dane "The Suspension Guru (54:43):
After riding that rascal I was really
surprised we were testing itright before they announced they
were going out of business andwe were looking at them for the
shop and yeah, we were at thesedona bike festival talking to
them about you potentiallycarrying them.
Yeah, and we were pretty muchgetting ready to sign them on
and bring their bikes in andthen they made that announcement
and it was like it sucked.

(55:04):
I had that bike in my garageand I had just ridden it.
I rode it on a night ride andwas out doing Maddie on the
e-bike, my son Out running yourson who's on an e-bike, and I'm
on this, this rascal, and I justfelt like superman on that bike
and that's rare, you know.
Usually the bike has to besuper light for me to feel like
that.
And that bike wasn'tparticularly light, you know,

(55:26):
statically, but it rode so well,you know, and I was kind of
excited about it.
And then they made thatannouncement and kind of killed
it and we ended up bringing adifferent brand in instead and
then they announced that they'reback a little more limited for
bike shops.
I guess for bike shops they'rejust doing frames now.

Yes , yeah, sounds like they're
moving, at least for the shortterm, back to that B2C model to
kind of get the, the, the brandback in a solid footing.

And it's super easy to get back
your footing back.

Yeah .

You don't have to establish a bunch
of contracts, you can just hitthe ground running, get some
money going, and then they cankind of expand dealer networks
later.
So it makes sense.

So, Jake, how can our listeners find
you?
What's the what's the best wayLike?
If they're online, how can theyfind you?

Best way to find us is our website
zoomabikeranchcom.
From a camping, you can make areservation on that website.
You can also go to Hip Camp.
Hip Camp.
We're listed on that as welland on the website.
Just reach out to me directly,jake at zumo bike ranchcom nice,

(56:42):
awesome, jake, we reallyappreciate you taking some time.

We're excited to kind of get up.
I don't know if it'll be maybein the spring or something.

Then we head out yeah, I gotta
figure out a few trips, but yeah, yeah, maybe spring or fall
we'll do a guru trip out to zumayeah, that'd be awesome.
We're doing um gooseberry, so Ihave to look and see logistics
for that.

Yeah yeah, so let's get that.
Oh yeah, yeah, make your way uphere.

On your way there yeah, maybe you
know like, especially if we'redoing another durango trip, we
can.
I love stopping in cortez so wecan hit there.
You know, stop there and thenride from there yeah maybe do it
as a clinic.

That'd be really fun to stop jump out
get a little training clinic forhalf a day and then head into
Durango.
So we'll definitely figure thatout.
Jake, thanks for taking thetime with us tonight.
Do you have any final thoughtsfor our listeners?

I don't know.
I just always like to say comeand meet some other people here.
You know, one of the one of thecoolest things that I see here
is we have two dogs and you'llget two or three different
campers that come to stay, don'tknow each other and oftentimes
they, you know, we'll be out ona hike with the dogs and I'll

(57:52):
see those three people out on aride together.
And you know our bike community.
I mean, that's just uh proof'sin the pudding.
You bring bikers together andthey're going to hang out
together.
Um, and I think that's the mostspecial part about our sport is
that it brings people togetherthrough this passion, and we're

(58:12):
lucky enough to have a spot todo that, to facilitate it.
So come and come and visit.

That's awesome, brother.
Thank you for your time andthanks for what you do for the
mountain bike community.
Again, zumobikeranchcom.
If you're interested, check itout.
Southwest Colorado amazingtrails Sounds like a sweet place
.
We need to go.
Heavily recommended by Dane'sRidden Trails out there and also
our previous guest Dave Slagle,so check it out.

(58:40):
Really appreciate you, Jake.
Thanks a lot, brother.
Thanks.

Yeah , josh Dane.
Thank you so much and hope tosee you soon.
Thank you.

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108 - Zuma Bike Ranch & Phil’s World Trails: A Unique MTB Experience in Southwest Colorado.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}108 - Zuma Bike Ranch & Phil’s World Trails: A Unique MTB Experience in Southwest Colorado.