117 - Bike Shop Secrets: Norco Optic & Outbound reviews plus info on tires, shocks, seat posts, and bells. - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
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Host - Josh Anderson (00:19):
Hey buddy, how you doing?
Good.
I'm I'm I'm good.

Host - Dane Higgins (00:23):
Yeah.
I'm on drugs.

You're on drugs?
Yeah.
Okay, just for the record.
It's just you're on ibuprofen.

Yeah.

But you'd be surprised how good I feel
with just ibuprofen.
The normal dosage of ibuprofen,not like uh ibuprofen with uh,
you know, fentanyl or in likethat, right?

I know, but I totally relate to the I love
drugs, you know.
It's just I love over thecounter stuff stuff doesn't hurt
anymore.

It is I love over-the-counter mild pain
management drugs.
That's it.
Um all right, so I I'venoticed, I don't know if you've
noticed this, um, kind of likeElon's back into the Elon Musk,
he's back into the news in apositive way.
Okay.
He's no longer best friendswith Trump or whatever, I think.
I don't know, who knows?
Whatever.
Yeah.
We're not a political podcast,and yeah, we like we love

(01:11):
everybody's opinion, so don'tcare.
Yeah.
But uh regardless, he's in thenews a lot, and space is like a
big thing and SpaceX, andthere's this, you know, space
space interceptor and all thiscrazy space stuff going on.
I got a question for yourelated to space.
It's just been on my mind.
Like space has been on my mind.
Like oh shit, I fucked it up.

Are you buffering?

What's going on?
All right, I got it, I got it.
I'm back.
I was totally buffering forlike 15 seconds, like right?
I've been there.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
How do you organize a spaceparty?
Oh god.
Uh man.

How do you organize a space party?
Uh you'd think I'd heard these,but I I have no idea.
Ready for the punchline?
Yes.
You plan it.
So late.

Dig it man (02:00):
So that's When you dig it!

You know that that joke is uh it reminds
me like a baseball.
And it's getting closer andcloser, and then it hit me.

So I've been reading through our
reviews, and it's been a minutesince I've got on Spotify and
read through our reviews.
There's quite a few out there,actually.
You should you should take sometime to read them.
But one of the guys, one of thereviews is like, it's been 12
minutes.
You have not said a damn thingabout bikes.
Why are you wasting all of ourtime?

I don't know who that is, but I love
them.

Thank you for your feedback, kind sir, if
you uh are still there.
And some of some people, Imean, there's a lot of there's a
lot of love, lots and lots oflove.
Yeah, but man, some peoplereally hate us.
Really?
Damn, dude.
I thought we were killing it.
Yeah, don't no.

I mean, you can't you there's always gonna
be the trolls.
That's like how it goes.
That's totally cool.
Sometimes that can be the mostfun and the entertaining.
We should read those one time.
Read them out loud.

Read them on the podcast.
Totally.
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe we'll do that.
I think that'd be fun.
Um, there's so many positiveones, though.
I would feel a little like it'skind of an egotistical.
Maybe we just read the badones.
That's why you read the badones.
Just read the bad ones.
Yes, that I could do.
Just be a punching bag, youknow.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Dig it man (03:11):
Yeah.

I have to, did I tell you I just have to
throw out a couple words, Maxis,trek, bike, pedals, and flow.
That way, that way we'retalking about bikes.
I don't want to we were gettingclose to 12 minutes.
No, we're only three minutesin.
Oh, okay.

But that's got me like looking at the list
over here.
Like, we've got to stopbullshitting and actually get to
the content.

What are we doing bike shop secrets?
What are we doing?

Bike shop secrets.
We got a couple products.
Um, you know, we did this pastweekend, we did uh event here in
Tucson um that the SonoranDesert Mountain Bike Cliffs put
on called the Poker Ride.
Yep, we this is the second timewe've talked about it because
we did it last year.
Oh, did we talk about it?
Yeah, well, it was actuallyearlier this year because I've
done two of them this year.
Oh, yeah.
It was in the spring.
Dane and I did a really coolMountain Cog slash guru.

(03:55):
Actually, it was really just aguru stop, and then Mountain Cog
came in and like Oh, it wasboth of us.
We partnered.

But we did it um with a theme, yeah, which
was really fun, like really fun.
Like, and everybody got it.
It was the dude, it was uh thebig Lebowski.
Big Lubowski.
Yeah, and that was pretty fun.
Uh dressed up as the dude, andwe're out there, you're making
uh 120 uh white Russians, whiteRussians, or or Caucasians as he
calls it.

Yeah, it's a lot of white Russians.
I I did not think we'd gothrough that many.
I we could have gone through Ithink another 30 or 40 if I'd
had enough alcohol in cups.

So you know I don't drink, but so it kind
of blows my mind that we'resitting out there, and this is
at like eight in the morning,nine in the morning.
Yeah, the amount of peoplethey're like, yeah, I'll have a
white rush like on a mountainbike ride.

I just started at first I was just
making them as people came up.
Yeah, and then I realized thisis not gonna work.
So then I started making themlike eight drinks at a time.
You gotta stage them like alike a in-and-out burger.
You gotta have those burgersready.
Between groups, I would mix theKalu and vodka together because
that's a staple platform.
Yeah.
And then I would wait till theycame up to put the cream in,
right?
And I just add the cream at thelast minute and keep that in

(05:00):
the cooler.

And that we had and we had Oreos.
And I gotta tell you, there wasonly like two or three people
that actually dunked the Oreosin the White Russians.
In the White Russians, which Ithought was like a no-brainer,
really, you know.

Host - Josh Anderso (05:12):
Interesting thing, I'm doing dry December
right now, just to kind of youknow let my liver heal or
whatever.
Whatever.
Um and so it was weird making120 white Russians, which is a
drink that I enjoy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And not partaking at all.
Yeah, yeah.

I yeah.
I, you know, uh I love thatevent.
I think last time we talkedabout it, we I think that's the
future.
I I think we I don't notnecessarily the future like
it'll replace races, but I thinkwe need more of those events.
And I was trying to think ofwhat other events.
So there's uh Grand Fondo thatthey did, there's um there's uh
scavenger hunts that sometimeshappen.
There's uh, you know, somebodywas telling me that um yeah, um

(05:51):
the tour, El Tour de Tucson,which is our big road ride,
right, is is kind of like that.
It's not really a real race formany.
It depends on 10%.

Like 10% of the people are racing.
I mean, there's 20,000 people,I think.
20,000 people that come out toit, so 10% are racing, yeah, 90%
are just out there to have fun.

Yeah, and I think that's I think that's
what people are really craving.
Like I love bike racing and Ilike going to races, but they
keep seeming to shrink.
And I think having a fun aspectwhere you're not really
pressured to be an athlete or oror do anything, but like a
costume, you know, becauseeverybody can participate, you
know.

Well, if you're out in the world and you
are working with a trailadvocacy group and you want to
hear more about the poker ridethat we did here in Tucson, I
think.
Or if you've got one in yourarea that is kind of like this
concept that's getting tractionand everybody's yeah, yeah, let
us know if you've got some coollike non-race events and we we'd
love to learn from you.

Yeah.

And then also, um, if you want to learn
about our poker ride, I can Ican tell you the logistics and
how we did it and all thatstuff, and maybe that's
something you could duplicate inyour area.
Yeah, it gets wide, wide uhattendance.
Now, I will tell you that we dohave an amazing community of
bike shops and bicycle-relatedum organizations that donate a

(07:01):
ton of product that is raffledoff and given away.
Yeah, and they're seriousproducts.
Yeah.
The Mountain Cog Podcast andDane from Guru or Guru Bikes
donated a pivot switchbladeframe as an example, just to put
it like, and then there was afull set of outbound lights.
We're gonna talk about outboundlights.
There's a set of we a couplesets of wheels, yeah.

(07:21):
And then it just went fromthere all the way down.
So um lots and lots of gifts.
So I think part of the draw islike you, you there's a good
chance you can win something.
Yeah, we bring out beer, uh,somebody brings out beer.
I don't think there's a permitfor it, but somebody brings out
beer.
Yeah, it's not sold oranything.
Yeah, it's not sold.
It's just like you can you canbring your own beer, I guess, is
the book to say it.
Yeah.

If if there happens to be a big cooler full
of beer that says take one.

Anyways, I don't even know why we were
talking about that, but um Well,um, so we were gonna talk about
a little bit of product review.
Yeah, we got two products.
Oh, well, that this is why.
At the so we had put out thecall that says, Hey, do you want
us to do these some like alittle bit of product reviews or
not?
And I think the writtenfeedback, this is part of why I
went and read the Spotifycomments, was like there was no

(08:06):
negative, there was a there wasa handful of positive and no
negative.
Okay.
No one said no, don't do it.
Yeah.
Some people said do it.
And then we've also had somepeople come up to us and a
couple people came up to ourstop at the poker ride and said,
Hey, now Tucson's a smallpercentage of our audience
actually.
I just looked at it, it's justunder 10% of our audience.
Yes, yeah.
Um, it's a large number ofpeople, and so it's it's it's

(08:28):
but you know, it's not amajority of our audience.
Yeah.
Um, but we heard this weekendas well.
Some people say, Hey, we I likethe product reviews, keep doing
them.
So here we go.

Okay, so um at that ride at the poker ride,
we we had to staff a tent so wecouldn't ride.
So after the event, after allthe awards and everything, uh my
daughter was there and and Joshand I went on a ride, and I got
to ride my uh Norco Optics.
So I wanted to talk about thatbecause uh we did an episode, I
don't remember which episode,um, where we talked to Norco and
I had just bought it and I'ddone maybe one ride on it, and

(08:59):
we kind of went through the wayum it's built and kind of its
purpose and things like that.
And I didn't really have timeon it, and uh now I've got a lot
more time.

So Yeah, we actually had that bike, I
think, with us in the room.

Yeah, and it was behind us, and we were
referencing it during theepisode.
Because we were on a Zoom call,even though everybody uh with
us is listening on that.
The uh the guys from Norcocould actually see it.
They could see it, yep.
Um and so uh I've just got alittle bit more of a long-term
review.
It is one of my favorite bikes.
Um it is uh so if you listen tothe episode, we kind of talk

(09:32):
about how it's kind of a weirdbike.
It's a high pivot bike, whichis a new kind of uh it's not new
concept as in like this year.
It's new concept in the lastlike five to ten years, which if
you're as old as I am is notthat long ago.
But uh but but the idea is tobring the pivot up higher, which
uh helps the rear wheel axletake a rearward path, which is a

(09:56):
little smoother off or overrougher bumps.
Uh and then there's a lot ofdrawbacks to that.
In the olden days, we used tohave that design on like a Santa
Cruz Superlight and some otherbikes.
And when the rear went the therear went backwards uh through
its travel, if you pedaled thechain would pull it back and
you'd get this crazy likeinchworm like pedal-induced

(10:20):
bobbing.
And so what Norco did was theyran a pulley up over the pivot
that uh kind of isolates the uhthe uh pedal feedback from the
wheel.
So when you pedal this thing,it is there's there's no bob.
Like it's it feels a hundredpercent efficient.

Uh it's like you're in a hard tail or
something.

Uh yeah.
I mean you still have themovement over the rocks that
that that isn't quite a hardtail.

But the suspension is designed to take
care of the fact.

You don't feel like the suspension is
pulling or tugging your legs,and it doesn't feel like you're
having to overpower in order tocompensate.
Like, you know, a lot of thedrag or or inefficiency is what
a lot of people would say.
So um it doesn't have that.
And I noticed it right away andI was pretty uh pretty
surprised.
Most of these high pivots aretypically on downhill bikes,

(11:08):
bigger travel, big, big travelbikes because they really want
the smoothest, fastest uhsuspension.
And this bike is a 125millimeter rear travel bike.
So um so not typically likethat.
So it's been kind of an oddballfor Norco.

Uh so Dane, we put out episode 98 in
April of this year.
Yeah.
Uh technical look at Norco'smountain bike design with uh
with Colin and Kirk.
Yeah.
And so you had just gotten thatbike.
Yep, so maybe maybe March orlate March.
Yeah.
So you've been on that bike forlike eight months.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And so like that's a looseterm.

Well, you you've ridden it.

I have a lot of bikes, and so they get
rotated, and so it it it thatsounds like a long time.

But you've ridden it a dozen times or so,
probably in the last eightmonths.
Yeah.
And uh what like what are yourthoughts?

Like well, so this rearward rearward wheel
path allows the wheel to hit asquare edge bump and kind of
move backwards as you're movingforward, which keeps your
momentum going.
And so you get this kind ofreally cool, smooth feel, really
smooth.
And then when you go to pedal,especially in our terrain, which

(12:14):
is super rocky, yeah, reallysquare edge, when you go to
pedal, you're not having thebike yank you backwards uh when
you're hitting these things, andthen when you're pedaling,
you're not stopping thatsuspension from moving.
So it's probably the smoothestbike uh that I have.
Like, I mean, I would put it onpar with like being as smooth
and comfortable as my downhillbike, uh, but it's a 125mm

(12:37):
travel bike, and so it's it'spretty amazing.
So this particular one has avivid rear shock, which is
pretty awesome.
Rock shock?
Yep, rock shock.
It's a high volume can.
Um, it's a pretty new design uhor redesigned from the old one.
And uh the cool thing about thevivid is they've in the rear
shock they've put threedifferent kinds of uh I don't

(13:01):
know what to call it.
Like it's not valving, but thatit has three different things
that allow you to tune thesuspension in three stages of
the shock.
So the first one is they callit a countermeasure spring.
And so inside that shock, whenthe shock is extended, there's a
spring that's kind of makingthe small bump a lot more
supple.
So the first 20% of that thattravel in that shock is much

(13:23):
more supple than a lot of otherones.
It doesn't have that stictionlike a lot do.
And that countermeasure springis just a steel spring in there
that helps with that.
Uh the second is the valving.
The valving really does most ofits work in the middle of the
shock, and so you can controlthat through your high speed and
low speed adjustments, which isreally nice.
You can do that with a rebound,and so you can kind of control
the middle feel.

(13:44):
So you get this supple, butthen you can have the valving a
little on the firm side so thatyou don't have this this wallow
or no mid-stroke support.

Dig it man (13:52):
Right.

And then it has a hydraulic bottom out, and
so you can tune the end of thestroke to where you can kind of
adjust that hydraulic so thatwhen you're getting to the end,
it's less harsh.
And so it was just cool.
It's a really cool shock thatyou can fine-tune in three
different uh um I guess threedifferent movements of its
travel.

(14:13):
Yeah, I guess.
Three different places in yourtravel, yeah.
The top and the middle and thebottom.
Yeah, you it's it's a coolconcept.
So that coupled with thatsuspension design, the bike is
just smooth.
In fact, I've got a pike on thefront, and it's the pike with
the uh ultimate with thebuttercups, which is what we put
in your Zeb.

Dig it man (14:31):
Yeah.

And uh so it has the newer damper, high
speed and low speed.
It's got these buttercups,which are just amazing.
We've talked about them before.
Yeah, and um, I can't get thatfork to be as supple as the back
end of the bike.

So um so for our listeners, if we go
back, I've talked a few timesabout that Zeb and how much I
love, especially with the new3.1 and the buttercups in it.
And yeah, I I couldn't feellike it feels so amazing.

Yeah.

And I had it on my e-bike, which is heavy,
it's like it's like the thing'sapproaching 60 pounds.

Yeah.

So I was like, is it just the weight of
this e-bike that's making thisfork feel so good?
And so I was gonna buy one, Iwas gonna buy one, I was gonna
buy one.
I actually won one.
Yep.
And so I've got no.
So uh shout out to the to theVerde Valley uh cycling
coalition.
But um but I won one and uh putthat on my Epic.

(15:22):
So it's a downcountry bike,like 130, 120.
Yep.
And my God, it is just as goodas the Zabba.

Yeah, I'm telling you, I Oh my God.
It's the the the buttercups andthat damper do such a good job.
Um so that as smooth as thatpike is, it's not as smooth as
the Norco.
The Norco just outshines it.

I'm I'm trying to figure out not as
smooth as that vivid on the backof the Norco's.
Yeah.
You're talking about the rearshock.

Yeah, the not just the rear shock, but the
whole suspension design.
Okay.
When you hit a square edge bumpon a bike, you get kind of this
abruptness.
So I'm used to horse links withthe Rocky Mountains.

Dig it man (15:59):
Yep.

And the idea is that your um wheel path
goes vertical, it goes straightup and down, and and that's kind
of been seen as very efficient.
So it it's not moving away fromthe cranks, so you don't have
pedal-induced uh issues, youdon't have to worry about as
much brake jack, and you get areally efficient movement so
that no matter where you're intravel, if you start pedaling,

(16:21):
you don't have the thesuspension uh either diminished
or you know overdone by the thepedaling.
And um this this Norco designis using a design that does not
do that, but the because theyhave an idler that kind of
separates the chain from thesuspension, the rearward path is

(16:41):
I feel like superior.
Uh I feel like it would be thenumber one number one way that
you would design a bike to goover these square edge bumps.
It's just so much.

Isn't that kind of also the design that
Revel's using?
No.
With the canfield balancepoint, isn't that their thing?
Is it it's got a rear world?
We'll have to go dive intothat.
I want to have canfield, I wantto have canfield andor revel on
the podcast, so we'll dive intothat.
But I I thought I understood.

So the idea in most suspension designs is
they're kind of trying to be ona vertical side.
Uh when you have a rear world,rearward movement in that in
that wheel, it's pretty horribleif you don't have an idler on
the bike.
And so you'll see bikes likeTrek Slash and you'll see um
Norco a bunch of bikes in theirline, the site and the um man,

(17:27):
there's another one.
I'm I'm failing as a Norcodealer.
Um I think um uh Forbidden uhbikes have um there's a lot of
bikes with this design.
Commensal, which is one of theones that's made it the most.

Oh, we gotta we gotta do a correction.
Uh we said in the last episode,like the strategy one we did
with on DTC, we said that can orthat a comensal was uh was a
American brand.
No.

It's not yeah, it's French, yeah.
Okay.
I think in that episode, yougotta go check.
I think I said I thought it wasFrench.

So Canfield CBF suspension features
a rearward axle path during theinitial and mid-stroke of
travel.

Yeah, but it's really subtle and then it
goes forward.
Yeah.

And so we'll we'll dive into that in a
later episode because I'm wedon't gotta go into it again.

My next bike's gonna be a revel.
The the big thing is the feeldifference.
Because I've I've ridden uh therevels and I've really the
same.
No, no.
The revels feel a lot more likea VPP or a um a DW.
They're they're achievingsimilar things just like the
horse links are.
Yeah.
Um they don't really have thisexaggerated kind of smoothness

(18:37):
that the Norco does.
The Norco is by far one of thesmoothest.
And so in this particular trailthat this event was at is so
square edge and so bumpy.
It is such a fun bike to ride.
And um, I would say the onlydrawback is with that idler, you
have a little bit extramechanism on the bike.
Yeah.
And so you get a little bitmore static weight.

And so static weight and a little drag
because you got another uh wheelthat it's going through, or you
don't feel it?

I didn't notice that because I feel
pretty spritely, you know,although in this instance I rode
without a shifter battery, andso I had to ride it as a single
speed, and uh I that will wipeme out.
Um but uh in general when I'vebeen riding that bike with
working gears, uh it's I don'tfeel worn out.
You know, I feel like I haveplenty of energy at the top of

(19:23):
the hill, and and then when I godown, I can go as fast as I
want.
Yeah.
So are you selling a lot ofthose Norcos?
Uh this particular bike hasbeen harder to sell.
Um just because it's a idlerpulley with a lower travel.
It looks like a downhill bike,but it's 125 in the rear.
I've got mine at 140, 125, andthen overstroked.
So I think it's at 130 now.

(19:44):
I I gotta do the calculations,but um, but it is uh it is just
kind kinda in a weird space.
It's like a it's like a Subaru,you know, um legacy with
monster truck wheels.
Like it just doesn't lookright, you know.
And so when people see it, theydon't realize how much fun it
is and how appropriate a bike itis actually for the way we

(20:05):
ride, 'cause these square edgebumps are really abrupt.
Yeah you know, and they canyank you quite a bit.
And when you get that, you justget an uh like a a really beat
up feel after the ride.
And this bike doesn't do that.

So interesting.

Yeah, it's a it's a it's a really cool
design.
And I think on the biggertravel bikes, it's way more
almost expected now.
Like the these idler bikes arebecoming more and more popular.
Even the new pivot downhillbike has it.
And uh isolating that rear end,letting the rear end move over
obstacles faster so that yourmomentum and isn't lost.
You know, I mean think aboutit, if you were just running

(20:39):
into a brick wall, yeah, you'regonna lose momentum.
And and if that wheel isrunning into a brick wall, but
if that get out of the way, ifif it gets out of the way, you
just can keep your speed.

So very cool.

So that's the Norco Review, uh, Norco
Optic.

Yeah.

Finds a medium.
And you would recommend it.
Yeah, I would.
It's uh a little on the longside, it's an S3, so they've
gone to the number sizing.
Yeah, like specialized?
Yeah, like a few companies.
Their um reach is a little onthe long side for me, even
though I'm long torso.
Yeah.
Um, but they were they kepttrying to tell me I'd be a S2
because of the reach that myRocky had.

Yeah, and your manhood would not allow you
to buy a small bike.

I I wrote I wrote a small and I look like a
circus bear on that thing.

Yeah, I remember you trying that out.

Yeah, and uh it's it's tricky.
It's uh that bike and and ourconversation in the last episode
with Norco, we kind of dived ina little bit with uh reach and
how it's become the metric for alot of people, but it's not
really Yeah, we got we got nerdyon that.

It's not a great metric, yeah.

So I we need to one of many.
We need to get an uh get apodcast with a geometry person,
like somebody who's doing thegeometry on the bikes.
Okay.
Uh and not, you know, likewe've done faction and we've
done um bear.
Yep and bear innovation.
Yeah, and just kind of get intohow reach isn't uh necessarily
because everybody's talking inreach terms.

(21:59):
Even when I watch the YouTubevideos and all the the the um
YouTube reviews and stuff, theyreally just dive super deep into
that, but they totally ifyou're if you're only talking
about reach, it's really, reallyimportant if you're only
standing.
Yeah.
As soon as you sit on the bikeand pedal, it's there's other
numbers that are reallyimportant.

It's uh it's interesting.
One of the things that I'mgonna try today or experiment
with is uh there's a coupleparts of like mountain biking,
mountain bike setup and thenmountain bike geometry that are
is like really confusing.

Yeah.

And so and they're complex.
And so I thought it would becool if we um take like one
variable at a time and kind ofdeep dive on it.
And so I was gonna start withsuspension.
So not not right now, but lateron in this podcast, I'm gonna
get into like one aspect ofsetting up your suspension.
And I thought like everypodcast that we do, one of these
bike shop secret ones, we candive deeper into like rebound,

(22:56):
high speed, low speed,compression, sag, you know,
whatever.
Absolutely.
Uh maybe we could do the samething with geometry.
Yeah, that'd be nice.
Yeah.
And once we get through theonce we get through all of the
uh suspension setup stuff, wecan switch over and start doing
like one, like we'll do reach,we'll do whatever, all the
different things.
Uh my product.
Yeah, what's your product?

(23:16):
Okay, so uh we hadinterestingly, uh also a
long-term review uh from someonethat we've had on the podcast.
But and and just for ourlisteners, just to remember, um,
we don't get paid for any ofthis stuff.
No one's paying us.
We're not getting it.
I paid for my NORCO.
They don't give it to me.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I paid and so I'mgonna talk about outbound
lights.
And I paid for my outboundlights.

(23:37):
We had them on the podcast,great podcast.
Um I originally started withjust the Trail Evo, which is the
one that goes on the front ofyour handlebars.
Yep.
Uh it's about 245 bucks.
It was fantastic, just lovedit.
Yeah.
Recently, Outbound doesn't dosales except for one time of
year.
Yep.
Over uh Black Friday.

(23:58):
Yep.
And so I picked up uh thehangover, uh-huh, which is they
have two different they have theportal and the hangover, which
are helmet.
I think the portal's like morepowerful or something.

Yeah.

I got the hangover.

I think the hangover, I don't quote me,
because I should know this stuffbecause we sell them.
Yeah.
I think the hangover has moreof a cutoff, whereas a portal
will um look down.
Okay, that could be.

Yeah.
That could be as far as likethe the direction of the beam
you're talking about.
Yeah.
So I I got the hangover, 135bucks, uh, added that to the to
the system, so now I've got anEvo and a hangover.
And when I first got it, well,so first of all, like they're
just they just performamazingly.
Yep.
I use them once a week.
I I have a Tuesday night uhnight ride that I do with the

(24:42):
boys.
You know, we're usually usingthe lights somewhere around two
hours, two and a half hours.
Um never had one like die,crashed.
We had a guy last night go overthe handlebars, landed on the
light, it survived.
Nice.
And then uh all most of theguys out there that ride with us
have them, and there's allthese stories that they were

(25:04):
telling about the amazing likewarranty.

Yeah, customer service is the best
thing.
Yeah.
Because um they have prettystandard warranties, but there's
a lot of stories about themtaking going beyond the
warranty, just just beingawesome.
Just great customer service.
Great customer service.
So that you know, they're notalways calling it a warranty.
It's we used to call itgoodwill, you know, when a

(25:28):
company takes care of you,because they don't want to set
the standard that this is how italways is.
Right.
They just want to let you knowthey appreciate you.

But the reason I want to so so I think
it's well established that theseare great lights, and I think
it's well established they haveamazing customer service.

Yeah.

There was something there's a couple
things that were that kind ofshook me or surprised me when I
got the products.
And the first was the b thebike lights fit a little loose
in the mounts.
They they sh they they move atiny bit.

Okay.

And I checked all the other guys'
lights to make sure it wasn'tjust mine.

Yeah.

And then the helmet one, you like stick
on with tape.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I'm like, oh, this is jankyas fuck.
Yeah.
These things are gonna falloff.
Like I was like, I had superlow expectations.
Uh I've been riding with I'vebeen riding them for at least
six months, once a week, andthey work great.

Yeah.

The sticky thing never came off.
Everybody says the same thing,they all work awesome.
And so I've got this hypothesisthat, like, and I don't know if
you know this, I I've used thisanalogy before, but like
Russian military equipment andAmerican military equipment.

Okay.

So like Russian military equipment is
made kind of loosey-goosey.
Uh-huh.
You can take an AK-47 and jumpit into a swamp, uh-huh, leave
it there for six months, pull itout, rinse it off, stick a
magazine in it, and it willfire.

Okay.

All right.
If you get three specks of dirtin an AR an American AR-15,
yeah, the thing jams up and willnever work again.
And so like I have no idea.
Yeah, so so like there'ssomething about that Russian
design that they just like thetolerances are not super tight,
but like everything workstogether and it's made to kind
of have a little bit of play.

Yeah.

That's how I feel about like at least the
mounts on these lights.
Now the lights themselves aretotally solid and awesome.

They have a cam.
So you push that cam down andpush that cam down to pull it
out.
No, no, you push it.

I thought you pushed it down to tighten
it.
Well, maybe you're supposed totighten it, but not one guy on
my No, I don't think so.
It's it's just a release valve.
It's just a release.
Because you put it in at anangle.
Put it in an angle, snaps in.
Snaps in, but I thought.
And then you just push thatlittle lever when you want to
take it out, and it pulls thatthat pin back.
We'll have to take a look atit.
I don't want I don't want toconfuse our listeners right now.
Yeah, yeah.

(27:47):
But there it is uh, at least onthe on the bike mounted one,
there's no way to tighten itonce it's on.
I mean you tighten the mountactually on the bar.
There's no way to tighten thelight inside the well, I I guess
I should put it out there.
I don't know of one, can't findone.
There's not a lot of movingparts on this thing.

Yeah, look at yours.
I don't feel like mine's loose,but the stick-on is definitely
um but you know if I I can'tremember if theirs is name
brand, but it's usually got ared label.
3M.
3M, okay.
That stuff is insanely strong.
Uh I've used it for otherthings, and it is crazy uh how
strong it is.
The only thing that I don'tlike is not all my helmets have

(28:25):
the same contour, so I don'tthey've fixed that now.
Okay.

And they came it came mine, we might just
got mine.
It came with two different umstickers.
Okay.
One that's kind of like thenormal one that you had forever,
and then one that's split inthe middle with like two
stickers, so that you can kindof mold it to whatever contour
you have.
Yeah.
So I still have that old one.
If you want if you want it, Ican give it to you and you can.

Yeah, that the other thing is if I switch
helmets, I need to get more ofthat.
Which we actually stop at stockat the shop.

And it's it's not an ex- I can't imagine
it's an expensive part, it'sjust a little piece of plastic
with a metal in it.
No, anyways, uh I cannot sayenough good things about those
outbound lights and um and thecustomer service, uh uh all
these stories of how great itwas, and they've performed uh
amazingly.
So I think they're a little bitmore expensive than like the
competitors.

Yeah, I I so if I can say something about
them, because I'm using themtoo.
Um the uh I've used uh lightsin motion and um those are the
two big ones.
If you I think light in motionwent out of business.
They did.
Um if you or yeah, I think theydid.
Uh if you want to get Tom upsetat Outbound, you can talk about

(29:36):
Magic Shine.
We did that in the podcastremember?
So it's just that's a goodtrigger for him.
But uh those I've I've ridden alot of lights, and uh I went
through the this uh the halogenbulbs.
Oh back in the day.
Back in the day.
HID no, then then to HID, yeah.
Which were the blue ones, andwe were so excited because there

(29:57):
were you could tell, we'd go to24-hour races and you could see
the four people that had theHID bulbs because they were a
different color, and theneverybody else had the older
ones.

Yeah, I had like a uh I think it was uh
what was it called?
It was an it was a light inmotion oh I can't remember what
it was.
Mine were Night Rider HID.
But it had a big giant batterythat put my camel back, weighed
like three pounds.

And so and then uh we got into LEDs, and
then uh so I've had a lot ofbrands, a lot of different
lights.
The one thing about theoutbound that I've been really
impressed with is and and Tomwill talk about this, but it's
hard to it's hard to wrap yourhead around until you actually
just experience it, but thelight quality, uh your eyes are
not strained, you're you'reyou're not trying to see stuff,

(30:41):
the light quality is notbouncing off and hitting you.
Like there's this this kind ofum just it's a better quality of
light.
It's not necessarily more lightor less light, it's just better
so you can see better.
Now, um, do you want to hear mydrawback?
Uh so I got a drawback for thelights.
So for the outbound lights.
Yes, yeah.
So I we have three.
I think we have a hangover, aportal, and a um Evo.

(31:05):
Evo Evo, yeah.
And um, so what I'll do is I'lluse them as demos, and then I
also will have my kids go ride.
So I don't always have twolights.
I usually have one, andOutbound believes that the one
on your bar, the Evo, is theminimal.
You should have that, and youshould start with that.
And so that's different fromwhat I experience with other

(31:25):
lights, where I always wanted onmy helmet.
Right.
And my fear is when you'recoming up to a corner, you know
you can't see around the corner.
You can't see in the corner andyou have to slow down.
And so my first experience withit was with a friend's light,
and I was like, wow, I could seein the corner.
I couldn't believe it.
I'm like, this this thing is onyour bar on your bars, on my
bars, and I can actually see inthe corner and not slow down,
and I was really impressed withthat.

(31:46):
And so that's when I we startedcarrying them and I started uh
using them myself.
I found a drawback.
Uh, and so one uh we've beenriding a trail, a super
technical trail at night here inTucson.
It's got a lot of big rockrolls.
And so what happens with thatlight is it's got a really clean
cutoff at the bottom.
So as you approach somethingthat you have to point up to go

(32:08):
up and then actually go steepdown, you can't see.
It's like pitch black.
And so the bike has to starttilting down before you get it.

But if you have the help the handlebar,
the one on your helmet, you canthen look down and that solves
it.

So if you're if you're looking to buy
these lights and you're justriding cross-country and you're
not really doing anything supertechnical, you can definitely
just get by with the handlebarone.

Dig it man (32:31):
Right.

But if you're doing more technical
riding, it is really importantthat you probably get both,
either the hangover or theportal.
Now, um, from what Tom wassaying, the portal was designed
almost with that in mind.
So I think it has a a biggerbeam to go down so you can see
over that crest and actuallyline up your your steep, you

(32:52):
know, or drop-in.

It was episode 89.

Okay.

Which was December 3rd last year.
Oh wow.
So it's been almost been oneyear and one week since we did
that, which means that I've beenriding those lights for a year.
Yeah, I believe it.
Um, so it definitely is along-term review.
Yeah.
I I you know what?
I cheaped out and bought thehangover versus the portal.
Yeah.
Um, because it was like 40bucks difference.

(33:15):
Yeah, yeah.
And now listening to you, I'mlike, God damn it, I probably
should have bought the otherone.

But yeah, maybe I will.
I mean, having it on your helmetjust will help do that.
But yeah, I from what itsounded like, they designed that
mic particular for that.

For the riding that I'm doing on the
trails that I'm doing, yeah,it's perfect.

Now, um, what I want to try is the portal
by itself and see if it'ssufficient.
Oh, okay.
Because again, since I'mloaning them, if I'm gonna loan
the one away, should I keep theportal or not?
So I haven't done that yet, sothat'll be another review we do.
Yeah, we can test it out.

All right.
So okay, so I just have aseries of um kind of some random
bike shop secrets.
And assuming that they don'ttake too long to get through,
we'll also dive into one elementof suspension design, if that's
okay with you, partner.
Sure.
All right, so uh first one, andthese are these are really
random.
So, you know, I don't know.
Uh out at the uh poker ridethis week, I saw one of your

(34:10):
customers, and I think she's gota trail cat, pink trailcat 275,
smaller lady.
Yeah, and she is an older lady,and she does not have a dropper
post.
Oh she's got a setbackThompson.
Yep, yeah.
So when I say setback, I meanthat the C post comes up
straight, like you know, out ofthe frame.
It's got a kink in it.

(34:31):
And then it's kinked backwards,and I think I looked up on
Thompson's website, it's 16degrees backwards.
Yeah.
And so two questions that cameto mind.
The first was man, was thatframe designed to deal with the
loads created with a kick with awith a setback seat post?
Because it's gonna put theweight distribution in a

(34:51):
different place.
Do you think that's a problem?

16, I don't know what 16 degrees is in how
much offset.
Is it 16 millimeters offset?
It says 16 degrees.
I'm I'm I'm going off of myhand.

Sorry, but it's it's it's slight.
It's a slight setback.

That's post.
So Thompson designed their postto have a zero offset.
And then people on their fitssometimes need a setback, which
is usually up to 25 millimeters,depending on the seat post, and
uh that allows a fitter to kindof get the saddle where it
needs to be for their legalignment.
And so sometimes we'll take abike and a person needs zero,

(35:29):
and sometimes they need anoffset.
So in the olden days ofmountain bikes, when we didn't
have droppers, you could get asaddle or a seat post that had
offset.

Almost and you you still have when you put
the seat on, you still havesome movement and the to get to
the minimum max settings on theseat.

On the rails.

On the rails.
Yeah.
So you only use this setbackseat post as I understand it if
you're if you need to go fartherthan what the seat will the
rails will allow you.

Yeah, and most of the time that's a fit um
bike uh a fitting aspect thatyou're trying to get your leg
alignment over the cranks.
And so I was talking earlierabout reach and how that's one
thing that's important whenyou're pedaling a lot and not
and seated pedaling, your yourknee alignment over the cranks
is really critical.
And especially if you're notchanging your position a lot.

(36:17):
So that's why road cyclists areso so conditioned to get fit on
a onto a bike properly becausethey're they don't want to blow
their knees up.
Mountain bikers haven't quitefigured out how much they can
get from that.
But that post was designed tocomplement the zero offset
Thompson's and give you thosetwo options.
Yeah.
So that's where that post is.

So do you think it's the loads are okay
for that frame?

Absolutely, yeah.
Okay.
That frame is is very strongand can take those loads no
problem.

Um I mean, would you th so that's that's
that that's pivot, that's atrail cat.
Yeah.
But would you throw a setbackC-post on any new bike that you
have, any new mountain bike thatyou have in this shop and feel
comfortable that the frame couldhandle it?

Yes, absolutely.
Okay, um, that one just wasn'tfar enough.
Now, I'll give you a storythough.
One of my new bikes back in theday that I bought uh was a Trek
Remedy, and I was superexcited.
It was the first 27.5 that Iever had, and I was a non-29er
back in the day.
I was a never 29 kind of guy.
And it does not surprise me.
Yeah, and uh, and so I was allinto 26, but I wanted, you know,

(37:20):
I was like 27.5 at least I canget a little playful.
It's it doesn't feel like wagonwheels.
I was riding the early 29swhere they really felt trucky
and hard to turn, and uh so itmade sense.
And that remedy was, man, itwas super fast.
It was a really nice bike.
Um but the way that it wasbuilt, the seat tube was kicked
forward.
So again, talking about myreach issue, yeah, that bike's

(37:44):
reach was similar to my otherbike, but because the seat tube
was kicked forward, my positionwas way farther over the cranks.
Right.
And so my knees would starthurting and my alignment wasn't
good, and so I had to kick myseat back, but I also wanted a
dropper, and at that time, andand still to this day, most
droppers don't have any sitback.

(38:06):
That was my next question.

Yeah if you if you have a dropper, is
there an option for setback?

There was a couple on the market where they
were fruit pretty low end andthey had kind of like an old
head that was bonded to adropper.
Uh-huh.
The the tricky thing withdroppers is if you weight the
back of the dropper too much, itbinds up, it binds.
Yeah.
And so most droppers aredesigned with that.
And and a lot of modern bikesthat are designed with droppers

(38:33):
in mind have kind of adjustedthe seat tube angle to try and
promote that zero offset so youhave less need for the bigger.

And they're also offering more sizes
now, right?
Like the S1 through S6.
That's kind of I thinkrelatively new back in the day,
maybe that didn't exist so much.

It was more small, medium, large.
Well, like uh there's this noman's land of like bike bike uh
droppers when they came outwhere people would be like, I
want a dropper on my bike, butthe seat collar of the bike was
so high that they could onlyhave like an 80 millimeter, you
know, uh dropper because theyjust hadn't designed the bike to
have a lot of drop.
Yeah, you know, and so thenthere was this kind of period

(39:11):
where people were trying to adddroppers to bikes that weren't
designed for it.
Now almost all the modern bikeshave such a low seat collar,
they're putting even longer andlonger drop posts.
You know, 200 millimeters isnot uncommon.
And that was unheard of, youknow, in 2015.
You know, if you if you had ahundred millimeter, you were a
baller, and if you were at a 125millimeter dropper, you were

(39:32):
seven feet tall.
Like, you know, like uhnowadays, 200 on a medium, you
know, and so somebody who's 5'10is riding a 200 drop.
200 millimeter dropper.
Yeah, because they've droppedthe frame lower to a accommodate
for that.
So a lot has changed.

It's almost like you're twerking on
your bike at that point ifyou're dropping 200 millimeters.

And you know, I've talked about this
before.
I'm not a I don't drop my postthat much.
I yeah, I drop it enough tohold the bike with my thighs,
and it's uh so I don't need itlike that.
So it's always funny whensomebody's like, I'm gonna get a
new dropper so I can get 20more millimeters of drop.
And I'm just like, okay, 300bucks for 20 millimeters is it
that important?

(40:10):
That's what she said.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

All right, next question.
Um Lacey went out and did likean epic kind of gravel ride on
the backside of Star Pass.
Oh out in like Swirls.
Brown mountain and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She did a 40-mile ride outthere, four-hour 40-mile ride
out there.
Okay.
Um and uh she's riding with acouple folks in town, Hillary

(40:37):
and Jeff, and they're kind ofavid gravel riders.
But um they drop the pressurein their in their gravel tires
to 40 psi.
We run them at like 60 psi.
I promise this is not a gravelquestion.
Okay.
Here's the question.
I'm as I'm getting better, andI'm getting better, like I'm I'm
I'm feeling way better on thebike.
Good.

(40:57):
I can do more, I'm faster.
It's awesome.
I'm noticing now subtle changesin my pressure make a huge
difference in how the bike ridesand how I feel.
Like just a couple PSI, I canfeel the difference in the bike.
Like if I if you like I run mymy tires at like 25, 28.
Yeah, if it's 22, 25, I canfeel it.

(41:19):
Yeah.
And and I've heard a lot on alot of different podcasts, and a
lot of like like really liketalented, capable cyclists that
I respect, they always talkabout the tire pressure.
But you're like one of thefastest guys I've ever ridden
with.
And you're you just go up andlike kick it and like squeeze it

(41:40):
a little bit, and you're like,ah, fuck it, that's good.
Like, how how is how do you dothat?
And and and what's youropinion?
Like, is it totallypsychosomatic?
Like it's in my head, that thisbecause I just keep hearing it,
so it's just like confirmation,but it's as the the bias is
being confirmed, or do you thinkit really makes that big of a
difference?
Because you don't seem I Iwould bel I would bet there's a

(42:02):
10 psi difference between whatride one and ride two for you on
a given week.

Yeah.

Just based on how much you don't care.

So I yeah, I mean you're you're kind of
nailing it.
I don't care.
So I have a tolerance of I canfeel it.
You know, I can feel when mytires are over pressured and
they're a little more skittishand I don't have as much
comfort.
And um I uh but and then whenthey're too low, you know, I
know it right away, and Iactually shift my ride style so

(42:31):
I'll like lighten my rear uhhits so when I'm going through a
rock garden, if I know mytires, I you know it's it's
crazy how much crap I do on thebike that I have no idea I'm
doing.
Yeah, but it's just it's justhabit of from years and years.
Years and years and years.
Yeah.
So uh tire pressure issomething that I used to joke
around that I just grab the tireand feel it and I watched you

(42:51):
do that.
Yeah.
And and and in in our industry,people come in constantly and
they're like, what tire pressureshould I run?
And you know, I everybody wantsthat quick, easy answer of like
28 psi or whatever, you know,the guy decides.
The the problem is when you dothis long enough, you realize
that you know, the weight of theperson, the type of bike, the

(43:13):
tires.
So we have been so so one ofthe things that we're gonna talk
about in the future is we'retesting is uh Schwalbe radials.
And those tires need adifferent pressure, a couple
more PSI at least.
A different tire.
And um, and so like it's it youget kind of numbed to the
number and you're more about thefeel.
And so if I if a tire feels toohard, I'll burp a little air at

(43:36):
the top of the climb.
I uh that's actually my biggesthabit.
I've watched you do that a lottoo.
Yeah.

When you say burp air, he just means undo
the press to valve and so likea little.

It's very common when I'm going on a ride,
I'll pump my tires up at homewith my floor pump and I'll just
get them hard.
I don't really look.
Half of my pumps What do you doto them?
Uh get them hard.
Okay.
I mean that's what you'resupposed to do.
But uh but uh half of my pumps,the gauges aren't accurate.
I'll have two different brandsof pumps, and they they don't
yeah, they don't work.
You know, I've just become lessdependent on that number, yeah,

(44:10):
and more dependent on the feel.
And uh, and so I've just tunedmyself to understand that.
And that's hard to teachsomebody, and so it's easier for
somebody to just know a number.
And so you'll you'll see uhpeople online or forums or
whatever that just constantlyspout spout out like a number.
Well, I'm 200 pounds and I run28 psi, or I'm I'm 175 and I run

(44:32):
29 psi or whatever, but there'sso many factors like the type
of the tire, the width, the sothe width of the rim uh can can
factor the type of the tire, theknobs, the ground, the
sidewall, like how you ride.
I'm super easy, and I'm you'regonna hear this.
That's me knocking on wood.

(44:53):
I'm super easy on wheels.
I don't beat up my wheels, andso I tend to get away with a lot
more, but I ride carbon wheels,I get a certain comfort from
those carbon.
They give me a comfortableride, and so I run my tires a
little harder because of that,and then I learn how the knobs
feel at that pressure.
So it's it's probably one ofthe one of the harder questions

(45:17):
that people come at me with islike what pressure should I run?

I think I think the bottom line is you
agree that you know three, fourpsi difference can significantly
change the ridecharacteristics.
So so it's worth dialing in foryour tires, your rims, the way
you ride, what you ride, whereyou ride, it's worth dialing in
the pressure and spending sometime to think about it.

So so in the olden days, uh before
tubeless, when we were runningtubes, we were running 50 psi on
on a race bike, and the guys Iwas running teams, and they
would come to me and be like,what pressure can I run?
And I'm like, put it at 50, andthen do a practice lap.
And if you can let a littleout, do that.
But it's faster to have a ahard tire than it is a flat

(45:59):
tire.
And and so it's yeah, and moreair is better than no air.
Exactly.
And and so we we had kind ofthat philosophy, you know, going
through when we went intotubeless, everybody and their
brother are like, I can run lowpressure.
16 PSI.
And so one of the things thatbugged me that is I think we may

(46:20):
have talked about uh Ken Averywith uh Vittoria is the pressure
is reliant on the volume andthe uh the uh this is why like
fat tire bikes you put likeeight psi in.
Yeah, right.
So so like and why car tiresare extremely stiff and they
have 30 psi.

(46:40):
Right.
Um the the derometer is the thethe word, like if you push on a
tire and were to measure thathow far it deflects, yeah.
I think is one of the reasonsthey get durometer, but I'm not
really sure.
But basically you're pushing inand you're seeing how far that
that thing will depress, that attubeless pressure is gonna be a

(47:03):
much different pressure than itis at tubed.
And so these people that werelike, I can run 15 PSI on
tubeless now, we're wrong.
You know, what I'm like, I'mlike, no, you need to run a
similar feel uh to what you wererunning with tubed.
The difference is you'll havebetter traction, the the tube

(47:24):
itself won't create frictioninside, and you'll be taking
away one layer of flats, whichis your pinch pinch flats, and
your sealant will help you withthe small flats.
So you're getting all thesebenefits, but you're not getting
this huge benefit of runningthem next to flat.
You you want to make them feelthe same firmness that they did

(47:46):
with the the um and you can getaway with a little bit because
of those added bonuses of goinga little softer for traction,
right?
But not this ridiculous like 15psi or whatever.
And it took a long time forpeople to kind of figure that
out because automaticallythey're like, I can run lower
pressure.

I'm like, so if you're if you're you know
you're a mountain biker outthere and you got a bike, you
got tires, you got a style thatyou ride, you got a place, the
set of trails that you ride in,you know what your local area
is.
Like, you know, I don't knowthat you need to go and like fix
and change and update andmodify all the shit that Dane
just talked about, but like it'sfree to dial in your pressure.
So you know it's worth I justwant to make sure you agree with

(48:25):
this.
Yeah, it's worth taking thetime to dial in your pressure.

This is bike shop secrets.
I'll I'll tell you two secrets.
Go for it.
Uh number one, one secret isuse the same pump.

Yes.
Because every fucking pump'sgot a different like they're not
all calibrated.

Yeah, yeah.
So use the same pump.
So if you go to a race, takethat pump with you.
If you use one of a floor pump,uh take it on a weekend, take
that pump with you.
Or at least figure out howthey're different from each
other.
So that's the one secret is usethe same pump.

Just to make sure people understand what
why you're saying that.
I can take Dane's pump, likehe's got a park pump, let's say,
I've got a specialized pump.
We can pump them up both up to20, and you're there there
actually will be differentpressures because the the gauges
are not high quality enough toall be calibrated perfectly.
It's like kind of within somemargin of error.

Yeah, and that's that's with the same
tire, same rim, same samecircumstance.
Two pumps will pump it todifferent different.

And so so you make sure you're
consistently using the same pumpso that once you dial it in,
you know you're getting to thesame level every time.

And um, so and then here's another thing is
so I like digital.
So I will tell you as we'regetting into tubeless and higher
volume and bigger tires, like Irun two sixes on my
cross-country bike, and lots ofvolume there, and so the more
volume you have, the lower thepressure will be.
So a road bike tire at 23millimeters is 120 psi in most

(49:52):
cases.
Uh, mountain bike tires areusually 30 or less, you know,
and it's the volume that'schanging that.
Um, and like you said, fattires, you know, two six or um
uh you know four three, fourpoint oh, five point five point
five point z are gonna be likeeight psi.
Yeah, ten psi or less.
Um so same pump, that's key.
Two, I I like the digitalgauge.

(50:12):
The bigger the volume.
So if you're running biggerbikes and durobikes, if you're
running bigger tires, your yourpressures are getting down below
twenty eight, you're gettingclose to twenty, between twenty
and thirty.
Yeah.
That's ten, you know, it'sreally hard to see that on a lot
of pumps.
Specifically on the pump thatI'm using right now, yeah.
It's hard.
It's hard.
And so the digital pump helpsit.

(50:34):
But keep in mind that digitalpump has is no better than the
other ones as far as use thesame pump.

You know, is park or does anybody have a
digital adapter to uh aircompressor?
Because I've got one, but it'sgot look, I'm looking at yours
back there too.

Yours has got a gauge, yeah.
I I don't know if I've doveinto that.
So this is the third, I guessthere's three secrets.
Uh, and and my buddy Justintaught me this one.
Um he has a digital uh gaugethat he takes with him.

Yep.
So he could use differentpumps, but he uses the same
gauge and then adjust, make surethat that's his cheater.

So he can use a cheap pump, he can use
anybody's pump, but then he usesthe gauge to be his there's a
couple different companies.

Host - Josh Anderso (51:16):
Blackburn's got one.
I don't know who there's acouple that's Topek, I think is
the one or SKS.

Uh I can't remember.
I've I've used a couple.
Um, most of them are prettygood if you get a good name
right.

That's like 30 bucks or something,
right?
Yeah, yeah.

Uh roll the dice if you want to get some
from Amazon.
I mean, you never know.
Um but that was one of theissues that we're having with
these little micro pumps, youknow, with the motors is yeah,
you can preset the pressure, butit's been hard for them to be
consistent.

Yeah so you still use those pumps I've
even found they themselves I'llpump two different tire, uh pump
the same tire to the same PSItwice, and then I'll test it and
it'll be different.
So I'm saying that pump isactually not delivering the same
persp PSI every time I use it.
Yep.
So I don't trust it.
So now I just use it as like abackup on the trail.

(52:03):
If I'm you know in trouble,again, some air is better than
or any air is better than noair, so just get some fuck away
in that.

And that that's something that I've kind
of lived by.
If I would rather pump up mytire and have it hard.
And and I usually uh a lot oftimes will do that on purpose,
and then I will ride half theride, especially if the ride
starts with the climb.
And then when I get to the highpoint I know we're gonna
descend, that's when I mess withthe pressure.
Um one caveat to that is if youhave a big change in altitude

(52:32):
change, you have to watch outbecause if you adjust your
pressure at the top, it will bevery different from the bottom.
And I've learned that on thewhole enchilada twice now,
getting flats because I adjustedit at the very top at a much
higher altitude, adjusted itperfect, loved it all the way
down midway, started gettingpinch flats because just the

(52:54):
altitude change had made thetire so much softer.
I was I was rock striking likecrazy.

So okay, so that that brings me to my
next question, which is uhsimilar kind of vein to what you
just said around altitudechange, but this is about
temperature, and it's abouttemperature and your suspension.
So like I have so so it's it'swinter time in Arizona, which
means it's 70 degrees, not 100degrees, but uh that 30 or 40

(53:23):
degree switch is kind of whatour average temperature has
changed, right?
It's come down.
And I've I haven't messed withmy suspension on my downcountry
bike on my on my Epic Evo, butit feels like I need to add air.
And I don't know, like maybethere's a leak, maybe I need to

(53:43):
bring it in and have you, youknow, uh service it.
I mean, we just hadThanksgiving, so just had the
No, and I'm about the sameweight.
Yeah, okay.
So I haven't gained weight, sothat's that's not a change.
Because that happens.
It does, it does, it definitelydoes.
Um I've been doing the 36-hourfast once a week for the last
six weeks.
So you're paying attention.
I'm paying attention, so yeah,so I'm I'm right there.

(54:04):
Okay, and I've got the samescale, so I'm not using
different scales.
Okay.
But uh is it possible that thechange in temperature would
require me to put more airpressure in my shocker fork?

Um well, let's let's think logically.
Are you putting more airpressure when it's cold or when
it's hot?

Well, I mean, I think air expands with
when the temperature goes up.
Don't do that.
Just tell me what you're doing.
I'm not doing shit.
Oh that's my problem.
Yeah.
I want to know what I need todo.
I mean, logically, I'm justwhatever.
My like my fourth grade mathunderstanding, my fourth grade
science understanding is thathot air expands.
I think hot air balloons, yeah,and cold air contracts, and so

(54:49):
it's getting cold, so the airthat's in my shock today is
taking up less volume.
Therefore, I need to add alittle bit extra air in a colder
environment.
That's my that's my theory.
Is that true?
Or is that bullshit?
It's bullshit.

Um so here there's a couple things that
influence that and and make itbullshit.
It's you're right, yes, thathappens.
Uh but uh it's not to thedegree that you probably would
feel.
There is things that you willfeel, so a couple things happen.
So uh a rear shock is a littleeasier for me to use.

(55:22):
This is rear shock where I'mfeeling it.
So that's what I'm talkingabout.
So rear shocks, once theycycle, so uh when I rebuild a
shock, I put it on a dyno and wego through all the settings and
make sure it's it's performingwhile it's being cycled.

And dyno is just a piece of test
equipment that you can mount theshock into and then cycle it
and you bit like a hand jam it'sa little bit.
Yeah, and I don't have to goride it.

Yeah, I can I can feel it right then and
there.
It's basically uh simulatingthe the ride, what the bike
would do.
Yep.
And uh it's just compressing itand releasing and compressing.
And um I can cycle that thinglike three times, three or four
times, and I can grab the shockand it will be noticeably
warmer.
So when you're uh riding thesethings, they are getting hot uh

(56:05):
to a certain temperature.
Okay.
And so I don't think that'sreally a factor.

So so the ambient tear air outside's not
gonna impact it.
So it's so chances are for somereason this shock has lost some
air.
I probably need to bring itinto you to help figure out why.

It yeah, it they can lose air, so they can
seep air.
Um it's funny there's uh ashrader valve that you use, and
it's this little shrader valve,same thing that's in cars, uh
that sucker can hold 200, 300psi.
Uh, but it's the pressure andthe volume are kind of weird.
So the more volume you have at300 psi, the less work the

(56:43):
shrader does, uh, or the lessair that you'll notice leaves
leaves.
And so uh an example of this iswith our DVO rear shocks.
So they have a bladder system,and their bladder is the size of
a thimble, it's tiny.
And we put 180, maybe even100-200 in in some of them, uh
PSI in this thimble size with aSchrader valve.

Uh and when you unscrew the thing, a
little bit seeps out.
Is that what you're talkingabout?

Nope, no.
Um over a month you can loselike it feels like 50% of the
air.
Like, so I will put a I canlose um so let's say I'm putting
200 in there, and uh over amonth I can go check that and
and use a variance, which meansuh every time you put the pump

(57:33):
on there, some of the the airgoes into the pump.
And so let's say I put 200 inthere, I attach my shock pump,
and then my shock pump, let'ssay, reads 150.
So I know that the uh 50 psi ismoving from that smaller
chamber into my pump.
Okay.
Um now if I do that three timesand it's consistent, I know

(57:54):
that's how much I'm gonna lose.
Right.
So let's say I put 200 in andthen a month I check it and it's
at 100.
So I know 50 went in there, but50 is gone.
Is gone.
And so what's happening is itis coming out, and so it's
leaking out.
Uh it's getting past theSchrader valve, it's getting
past whatever.
Uh most of the time it's aSchrader valve, is it's got the

(58:16):
the gateway that's the easiestto get by.
The that thimble size and thepercentage of molecules, right,
that can seep past that thing.
I got it.
Are a greater percentage willget past that to the volume
that's in there.
Yeah.

Whereas if it seeps out, you know, if it
seeps out whatever, I don't evenknow what the rate unit of
measure is for air, but yeah,but just imagine that you it's
uh yeah, I can't remember whatit is.

CP, I I can't remember what it's like.

Yeah, but like whatever.
Let's say twenty out of ahundred is twenty percent.
Twenty out of a thousand is istwo percent.
Yes, exactly.

And so the bigger the cans on the shocks,
the less it's affected, thesmaller the cans.
So we see a lot of like umthere's a uh shock that Rock
Shock makes called the Sidlux.
And we see a lot more of thosecome in with symptoms of losing
pressure, and it's because it'ssuch a tiny little shock.
It's tiny, you know.
I don't see the pressure lossas much on the bigger can ones.

So I think what uh the practical like
lesson I think I'm taking out ofthis.

And this is this is all pro this is all uh
with a caveat that there's noactual leak.
Problem.

Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, okay.
So I think the practical thingI'm hearing out of this is that
once you get your sag dialed,you should you should pull out
your phone, go open notes, makea note, say, here's what how
much I got in my back, here'show much I got in my front, and
then periodically you shouldcheck that shit and make sure
it's not losing a little bit.
Because even under normalcircumstances, your suspension

(59:49):
is going to lose a little air.

Now, now let's talk about temperature.
Uh, because there's a coupleother things that temperature
can affect.
So when we do suspensionservice, we actually use a Bath
fluid, which is what goes in thelowers.

Dig it man (01:00:02):
Uh-huh.

Host - Dane Higgins (01:00:02):
And so is this you're going to talk about
viscosity of thickness, uh, likehow goopy it is.
And um, so during the summer,here it's pretty hot.
I tend to use a bath fluid thatis much thicker because the
heat will thin it out.
So higher viscosity for is thatthe right term?

Host - Josh Anderson (01:00:22):
But a th thicker, anyways.
I got your point.

Yeah, it's more molassesy and less watery.

Is molassesy a word?

Yes, it is now.
Okay, perfect.
Perfect.
If it's on the internet,doesn't that count?

What's the molassesy percentage of your
bath oil?

I don't know.
So but I have two, and I have awinter and a summer.
Right.
And I use them prettyinterchangeably depending on
when I'm servicing.
And it's really, you know, it'snot super conscious.
I don't do like I have a setdate or anything, but as soon as
I run out of that bottle, if itis cold out, I will switch to
the to the thinner one.
Yep.
For the for the winter.

(01:00:55):
Yep, exactly.
And then if when that bottle isrun out, if it's warm out, I'll
switch to the thick one.
It does very little.
It's intelligible.
Yeah, it's it's not a big deal,and there's lots of i they both
work fine.
Yep.
And they're bothinterchangeable, but I just do
that out of habit.
You know, it's what I would doin my fork, you know.
And um the other thing abouttemperature is rubber tends to

(01:01:18):
get harder and stiffer uh whenit's cold.
And so you do have a littlestiction at first when it's cold
out.
So if you get on your fork, umit will be a little colder.
There's a little irony there,because uh there's a fork called
uh Bluetooth.
Do you know what the Bluetoothis?
No.
So it's a rock shock fork madefor fat bikes.
Okay, I think I've seen that.

(01:01:39):
Yeah, and so when they firstcame out, they had a problem.
Uh they did not create some ofthe O-rings in the air system
were not big enough that atsub-zero temperatures they would
get so hard, but also small.
They didn't expand, they kindof contract under cold, and they

(01:02:01):
would uh let air by and peoplecouldn't hold the pressure.

And so And a lot of people riding fat
bikes in the winter in the snow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a snow bikeoriginally.
Yeah.

We use it here in the desert for the sand.
But uh but yeah, it's a snowbike.
And so man, I kind of want afat bike again.
I feel like they go throughwaves.
And right now a wave of fatbikes is coming.

I'm feeling it.
I'm feeling the need.
That's all I need is one morebike.
Right, exactly.

And they're they take up a lot of space.

At least he's gonna hear this and be
like, uh-uh, boy.

Uh-uh.
You got nowhere to put it.
So yeah, and then uh the lastthing that you said that kind of
factors into rear shocks iswhen we're selling a new one,
they have a break-in period.
So they're they're just kind ofstiff at first.
So when you initially set upyour sag, it's pretty common
that after your first ride ortwo, you're like pedal striking.
You're like, what's going on?

(01:02:48):
And the shock is much moreactive and smooth, and so you
have to reset your sag.

By the way, that's how I picked up that
the suspension was different,is I was pedal striking more.
Yeah.
And I never pedal strike onthat bike.
Yep.
Yeah.
So okay.
Regardless of all that, I'mgoing back to the secret.

Let's put a secret out there.
Secret would be to yes, checkyour suspension.
It doesn't lose that much, soyou don't realize it, but it
would be a good idea every fewmonths to check your suspension.

So check your check the sag on your
suspension.
You change your ride.
Well, I mean, that's a goodpoint too, right?
Like you're uh I'm I've I'mriding different, I'm riding
more aggressive, I'm standing upand pedaling more, I'm riding
faster, I'm hitting corners.
I I I I don't want ourlisteners to get confused here.
I'm still not that good.
I'm just way better than I usedto be.
And I'm feeling good on mybike.

But that's a good point, too.
When you change your ridestyle, so if you stand up on the
bike and lean forward, you'regonna put way more pressure on
that front fork than if you'rein a seated position.
Yeah.
And so it's gonna do differentthings.
And the same thing for the rearshock.
And if you're going uphill ordownhill, that changes.
So you can get little weirdthings when that happens.

All right, I got two more questions for
you.
And once again, we are notgonna get to this to the
suspension topic in detailbecause we're already an hour
and five minutes.
We're not gonna have to do awhole episode.
We're gonna do a whole episode.
Okay, two more questions.
Um, these should be easy ones.
Um, when I was in Anchorage,what three years ago in the
summertime we went and rode, andthere was something weird that

(01:04:16):
we noticed, and like everysingle person we rode with on
the curve.

It was white and kind of like wet.
Anchorage?
Yeah.
No, it was beautiful and greenin the summertime.

I thought it was snow that you're gonna
do.
No, it was the summertime.
It was the summertime.
Although we did when we hikedup in the mountains, we did see
some snow.
Because in Tucson, what's like,what is that?
What is snow?
No, it was.
I mean, Anchorage was amazing.
But everybody rides with bells.
Yes.
And the reason they ride withbells is for bears.
And the bells, like, I guesskeep the bears away.
Um I have noticed recently herea lot of people riding with

(01:04:50):
bells.
And I was talking to the guysabout it last night, and they're
like, Yeah, on a couple of thedownhill trails up on Lemon,
like Aspen or Um uh Bugs,there's hikers coming up.
Yeah.
And so the bells just warn thehikers that there's a you know,
bunch of rowdy, banshee mountainbikers coming down to get off

(01:05:10):
the trail.
So, like, I my question is islike, how popular is it for
folks to run bells?
And is there bells that yourecommend?

Yeah, it's not as popular as I'd like.
Uh, the amount of times I'vecome down uh the this trail that
you talk about, uh Aspen, is onthe top of Mount Lemon, so we
escape the heat up there.
Yeah, it's steep, it's nasty,um, but it's also people hikers
are escaping the heat too.
Right.
And so it's always got hikerson it, and we shuttle it, so
we're coming down fast on bigbikes.

(01:05:41):
And um I the amount of hikersthat have told me straight up,
thank you for the bell, youknow, um, they're they really
appreciate it because they don'twant to be caught off.
They can hear us coming, itgives them a heads up, they can
move over at their pace, makesure they're safe, things like
that.
We always slow down when we seethem, so it's not like we're
careening through like jerks.

Um but but but there are blind corners and
stuff.

So you can run into a situation where
you're coming around a cornerand they're just right there.
And and and uh let it be knownthat everybody should be riding
responsible on multi-use trails.
They should not be controlled.
100%.
And a blind corner is not anexcuse for hitting people.

Dig it man (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Um, so you should slow down.
Like I it's hard as somebodywho wants to kind of train to
race, and I I want to do that.
It's hard sometimes.
Real fast, yeah.
But you you need to beresponsible, and that's not the
way to do it.
And uh, but the bells help alot.
Uh, I think the hikers mostly II haven't had anyone who
doesn't like them.

Dig it man (01:06:34):
Yeah.

Um, so we sell a few, we though probably
the most popular one is thetimber bell.
Uh that's the one you can turnon and off.
Yeah, and so that's nicebecause you can have it on your
bike, you can turn it offbecause you don't need to when
you're climbing, you can turn itoff because you're not gonna
run into a hike.
When it's on your bike rack,when it's you know everywhere,
you know, you don't you don'thave to have it on, and then you
can turn it on for the descent.

(01:06:55):
The worst is that you have toremember to turn it on.
Um, but um honestly, if oneperson in the group has it and
they're near the front, that'sprobably the best.
And I think Incredibel isanother one, is that what you
mean?
Incredible, um, I haven't shh Idon't know if they make one
that's on off like the timberbell that jingles, but a lot of
people will just have bells.

(01:07:16):
So on the path, so we have thisloop, which is this wonderful
paved um We've talked about it alot.
We had a we had an episode withthe with the guy.
Yeah, yeah.
And so you can ride regularbikes, towny bikes, whatever.
On that, we sell a ton of umour our best-selling bell is
stupid expensive.
And I'll tell you right now,until you hear it, you'll like,

(01:07:37):
I'm never spend 70 bucks on abell.
Like, never do that, you know.
But we sell these things likecrazy because as soon as you
hear it, you're like, Yeah, Iwant that.
And it's called a spur cycle uhbell.
And it is got the best tone,it's it's it rings forever, it's
easy to hear from longdistances, uh, it is super high

(01:07:58):
quality, and they've really paidattention to how sound travels.
Uh-huh.
It's kind of like the outboundof of bells.
Yeah.
And um, and so it we sell a tonof them, and we have one, and
we'll just but those are bellsthat you actually actuate.

Those you have to actuate.
So that's more for like roadroad riding.
Yep, that's the type of bells Iwas asking about are ones that
just ring free as your bike'srattling to warn bears, mountain
lions, or hikers that you'recoming.
Yeah, and I would say thetimber bell is probably the most
popular.

Yeah.

All right, thank you.
I bet you did not expect aquestion about bells.

No, I like it though.
I I would like more.
Uh we don't have well, we dohave bears, but it's usually the
hikers.
It should be a hiker warningbell.
I think I almost feel like sometrails should actually require
it.
I I do, and I don't think thatwould be a bad thing if if
you're on a bike on a multi-usetrail that you're required to
have a bell.
I don't know how they'd enforcethat, but I think it's good

(01:08:50):
safety and the hikers wouldappreciate it.

Yeah, I mean, we like we we say,
especially on multi-use trails,just be cool.
Yeah.
And having a bell, if you'regoing downhill, that's bringing
out and letting people know,that's just a cool thing to do.
So be cool, man.

And in most cases, they'll be out of the
way when you come through.
It'll less impediment for you,less danger.
I mean, it you hit somebody,you're gonna hurt them, but
you're gonna get hurt too.

You know, so if you are not a mountain
biker and but your significantother is, and you're looking for
an inexpensive gift to givethem that they probably don't
have.
Yeah, yeah.
A timber bell might be a goodidea.
You could probably get themonline.
If you're in Tucson, you cancome to Googre Bikes and get
one.
Yeah, we got um, but yeah,check it out.
All right.
Cool.
Okay, final question.
Final question.
Okay, okay.
All right, the tires on my uhdowncountry bike are are getting

(01:09:40):
kind of bare.
Okay.
Uh and then also the tires onmy e-bike are looking weird.
Okay.
Like um, I'm starting to seecracks in some of the knobs, but
the knobs are still pretty big.
Okay.
They don't look worn down, itjust looks like they're cra
starting to crack.
And so that led me to thisquestion of like what are the

(01:10:01):
signs I should look for thatindicate I need to change my
tires, replace my tires?
Like, what should I what shouldI be looking for on the tire,
on the on the on you know what Ican see that would indicate to
me, hey, hey Josh, it's time toand maybe it's how the bike
feels or performs, or maybe howit's looked, but like what tells
you, like when do you get maybeback before you were just

(01:10:24):
swapping tires to test them andlike today, but when you
actually pay for your tires fullprice and all that?

Back when I was uh like a student and had
zero money, didn't own a bikeshop, you know, things like
that, I I would run untilthey're bald.
Um in our terrain here, we'reon rock so much I could get away
with that.
So this this is gonna beterrain specific because if
you're in loamy condition, thetire is way more important than
it is when you're riding rockslabs.

(01:10:49):
Uh the rock slabs are tend tobe give you a ton of grip, even
if you had a ball tire.
And so um but you know what Iride, which is like greens and
blues.
Well, so what you ride is notnot necessarily the greens or
blues, it's uh it's kitty litterover hard, loose loose over
hard is what they call it.
And so that takes a particularknob.
So you don't really need inthat case a huge knob.

(01:11:12):
So running minions and stufflike that out on the train you
ride doesn't make a lot ofsense.
I don't.
It's just gonna be heavier andit they'll be comfortable and
they'll give you grip, butthey're not necessary.
So you and they slow you down alittle bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like a mid-knob is probablybetter.
Yeah.
Um, so what we see here becauseof the train, because it's
really rocky, is that the outerknobs will actually wear out on

(01:11:35):
the inside of them.
It's the weirdest thing.

That's what's happening on my e-bike.
And my wife tells me it'sbecause I don't know how to
corner.

No, she's wrong.
I mean, she's awesome, butshe's wrong.
Uh what what's happening?
One, there is a weightdifference.
So you're bigger than she is.
Yes.
Um, what's happening is thatknob when you're leaned over is
getting a lot more use on theinside of it than it is on the
outside.
The outside when you're is isis it's folding basically uh

(01:12:01):
towards the case.
Pushing out.
Yep, exactly.
And so uh so that's probablythe number one thing.
I I don't have any problemsrunning those tires.
If I'm racing, I get a littlebit more superstitious, but also
picky about my tires because Idon't want my tire to be my
limiting.
I don't want to lose a racebecause of my tire.
So I'll be a little more pickyon how good my tires are, and

(01:12:24):
I'll be a little way, way moreuh aware of if they're in good
shape or not.
But for general riding, I justride until I get a cut or a bad
puncture.

So let me give you some conditions and you
tell me if that should signifybecause I'm not satisfied with
your answer yet.
I'm starting to see littlecracks in the knobs.
I don't know what that means.
So at the base of the knob, onthe corners actually, on the
outsides, yeah.
Uh on the inside, right?
I can see like little crackswhere it looks like I mean I

(01:12:54):
could live feel like I could gograb that knob and like pull it
off.

Well, that happens.
And so so if that startshappening and you have like a
DLAM or a uh, you know,basically the rubber's not
adhering to the casing, yeah,and the knobs are coming off.
So if you have a knob rip-off,because you just hit a rock and
that rob just that rock justcarved that knob right off your
tire, you'll see the rubberunderneath.

(01:13:17):
Yeah.
And that is what we would calla non-defective or a non-issue.
That's just happens.
You know, you just got a sharprock that was like a knife, you
know.
Um, but if you see that casingand it's and that rubber is
delaminating from the casing,yeah, you could have just either
one, you could have a bad tire.
Uh two, it could be an oldertire, and as they get oxidized

(01:13:40):
and brittle, uh, that rubberjust loses the adhesion.
It's kind of hard to lose theadhesion down there.
It usually loses itsrubberiness on the outside uh
first.
And so um that those are thethings that you may see.
And if you see that, uh like uhso if I get if I see
delamination, I see the casing,replace the tire.

(01:14:01):
It's gonna keep happening.
Now, if you're poor and youhave no money, run it until you
have a problem.
But um, you know, things likeuh run it as a rear tire, you
know, uh don't risk the frontwashing out on you, you know.
So safety-wise, I would say ifyou're running a questionable
tire in the back, it's way lessuh impactive than in the front

(01:14:24):
because the front is you know,cornering, hitting a corner and
having a tire let loose is bad.

So what about if I get a puncture and I
put a plug in?
Will you run those long term?

I I rode one, um, what was it?
Big Betty?
Was it Schwalby a long timeago?
Like two years.
With a plug.
With a plug.
I couldn't believe it.
Like how long.
It was a front tire, so I I andI was riding slabs.
It was a big knob tire, so Ijust didn't wear out the front
very much.
The rear was bald, and thefront had a plug in it for two
years.

(01:14:55):
I couldn't believe how long itlasted.
Um, so I have done it.
I've We should probably becareful from a liability
perspective.

Yeah, yeah.
I don't want to get us introuble.
So like what from a safe uh notwhat you would do, but from a
safety perspective.
Well, so if you get would youagree that if you get a
puncture, replace a tire?

Yeah, that's a tough one because if
somebody's gonna hold meaccountable, if you get a
puncture, you use a plug to gethome and then you replace it.
Okay, now that's the same.
So that's the generalrecommendation.
That that is the I'm afraid ofbeing sued recommendation.
If you talk to anybody else,they'll they'll say just they'll
they'll say run it.
So let's say this.

Just I don't want to get sued.

Yeah.

Our formal recommendation is if you get a
if you get a puncture, replaceyour tire.
Get home and replace your tire.
Yeah.
If you do anything other thanthat, it's on you.

It's it's on you, yeah.
And and you know, yeah, it'skind of tough.
That's one of those subjectsbecause we deal with that in the
bike shop and we're helpingpeople all the time.
And sometimes uh I'll have aconversation with them and I'll
say, This is not I'm taking offmy bike shop hat and I'm telling
you as somebody who you met onthe trail.

Yeah, you know, it'll probably be okay.

Yeah, and I'm I would ride that tire.
And then at least if I say Iwould ride that tire, they
understand that it's I'm notsaying you go ride that tire.
Yeah, I'm saying I would ridethat tire.
And so it's tough.
If if somebody's like that, Iprobably don't want to talk to
them.
So like you know, like I'll belike, you go go go talk to that

(01:16:27):
person over there.

So all right, man.
Well, a diverse set of topicstoday.
Yeah, it's pretty fun.
Yeah, thank you for your wisdomas always.
I know our listeners appreciateit.
I know I appreciate it.
I learn a lot.
Uh, you got any final thoughtsfor our listeners, brother?

Yeah, I mean, I you know, I love doing
these things.
If uh I would love some morefeedback if people have things
to to maybe try and getsomething to us on subjects that
they're wondering about.
Because uh you come up withthese and they're great, and I
need to come up with some, butuh it's it's fun to kind of give
people a little a little peekinto what we're dealing with all

(01:17:01):
the time and some knowledgethat's not easy to get
sometimes.

So right on.
We got some whiskey glasses.
You don't even know about this.
No, we got some whiskey glassesbranded with uh Mountain Cog
that are in production at themoment.
So we'll have a limited run ofMountain Cog.
So we'll have swag?
A little bit of Mountain Cogwhiskey glasses because we talk
about whiskey a lot.
So uh yeah, uh we'll we'llwe'll let you know.

(01:17:25):
Probably give some out, maybesell a few.
We'll see.
What about nipple managershirt?
I don't know.
I don't know if our brandmanager would uh appreciate the
nipple management.

I still walk walk around with that shirt
on, and people give me weirdlooks and I forget I have it on.
I'm like, why do they keeplooking at me?
And then I realize the shirtsays nipple manager.

That's a good way to go out.
Okay.

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117 - Bike Shop Secrets: Norco Optic & Outbound reviews plus info on tires, shocks, seat posts, and bells.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}117 - Bike Shop Secrets: Norco Optic & Outbound reviews plus info on tires, shocks, seat posts, and bells.