July 21, 2025 • 23 mins
How do your employees and franchisees manage changes at your organization? Do they dread it? Revolt? Complain? Celebrate? Our guest today is Dr. Elizabeth Moran, who is a neuroscience and change management expert. She shares with us some practical tips and ideas on how to implement and improve your change management efforts.
TODAY'S WIN-WIN:
Compassion, Communication, and Clarity are the 3 things where action comes from and what your team needs during any change.
LINKS FROM THE EPISODE:
- Schedule your free franchise consultation with Big Sky Franchise Team: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
- You can visit our guest's website at:
- Get a copy of our guest's book: https://www.amazon.com/Forward-Leading-Your-Through-Change/dp/1782792899
- Attend our Franchise Sales Training Workshop:
- https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/franchisesalestraining/
- Connect with our guest on social:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-elizabeth-moran/
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Elizabeth Moran is an experienced leader, coach, and consultant providing neuroscience-based guidance to successfully navigate change. Partnering with business leaders from Fortune 500 companies to smaller start-ups, she has successfully supported large and small-scale transformation efforts through practical advice and actions to make change management more “manageable.” She authored the Amazon Bestselling book FORWARD: Leading Your Team Through Change, making her practical approach accessible to all people leaders globally. Prior to starting Elizabeth Moran Transformation, she was Vice President of Global Leader, Team & Organization Development at ADP. She also held talent development roles at Bloomberg, Lehman Brothers, Getty Images, and Time Inc. She holds a doctorate in clinical psychology, a PCC-level coaching certification, and is a certified Neuro-Transformational Coach. Elizabeth also created a personal growth program for incarcerated men and women, enabling improved self-awareness and decision-making to create more purposeful and peaceful lives.
ABOUT BIG SKY FRANCHISE TEAM:
This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial, legal, or professional advice. Always consult with a qualified professional before making any business decisions. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, Big Sky Franchise Team, or our affiliates. Additionally, this podcast may feature sponsors or advertisers, but any mention of products or services does not constitute an endorsement. Please do your own research before making any purchasing or business decisions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast,
where, each week, we helpgrowth-minded entrepreneurs and
franchise leaders take the nextstep in their expansion journey.
I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceoof Big Sky Franchise Team, and
as we open today, I'm wonderinghow your employees and
franchisees manage or deal withchanges that you implement at
(00:22):
your organization.
Do they dread it?
Do they revolt?
Do they organization?
Do they dread it?
Do they revolt?
Do they complain?
Do they embrace it?
Well, our guest today is DrElizabeth Moran, who is a
neuroscience and changemanagement expert, and she
shares with us some practicaltips and ideas on how to
implement and improve yourchange management efforts.
(00:43):
Now, dr Moran is an experiencedleader, coach and consultant in
providing neuroscience-basedguidance to successfully
navigate change.
Partnering with businessleaders from Fortune 500
companies to smaller startups,she has successfully supported
large and small-scaletransformation efforts through
practical advice and actions tomake change management more
(01:04):
quote, manageable, unquote.
She authored the Amazonbestselling book Forward Leading
your Team Through Change,making her practical approach
accessible to all people and alltypes of leaders globally.
You're going to love thisinterview, so let's go ahead and
jump right into it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm Dr Elizabeth Moran.
I am the founder of ElizabethMoran Transformation.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Wonderful.
Well, transformation is a greatword to help springboard into
the conversation because reallyyou're dialed into this idea of
neuroscience and change andleadership and talking through
that.
So just to open things up andjump right into the thick of
some of this, is we startthinking about changing in this
(01:48):
concept of forward change, asyou've described in some of your
pre-show material here.
What makes your forward changeapproach more manageable for
some of this change managementthan maybe others?
So, thank you so much for thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There is so much great literature and work out
there.
I've been a complete nerd whenit comes to change for a long
time probably, like you know, wewere talking about 20 years and
it was always something I kindof did on the side.
But every time I would you know, was inside organizations.
A leader would want to make achange or the group would want
to make a change for a very goodreason.
They knew they had to dosomething different when they
(02:25):
were leading humans throughchange, but it seemed very
overwhelming and unstructured.
So what I did was I looked andI'd studied a lot of the
literature Cotter Dave Potruck,stacking the Deck, another one
called the Technology Fallacy sothere's no shortage of material
.
What's very hard for leaders, asmany of them were doing this
off the side of their desk.
They didn't have a separatechange management function and
(02:48):
even if they did, oftentimes itwas focused on the project
aspects.
So my uniqueness was I wouldtitrate it down actually with
the business leaders what arethe key essentials you probably
should do that will help yourpeople, leaders and those who
work for them implement thechange and what are those basics
(03:10):
?
And then the emotional side,which is really where, why I
wrote the book.
It was more of a focus on that,which is how do you understand
and that's where some of theneuroscience comes in why people
react the way they do.
This isn't an excuse.
It's not to give people a pass.
It's simply that you, as aleader, when you understand
(03:30):
these natural workings of thesehuman beings these pesky humans,
as we like to say sometimes theactions that you can take are
more likely to get you apositive result Really.
And the positive result is ifyou have a change where you need
people to behave differentlythan how they are doing
currently, then there are somethings you have to do that will
(03:54):
make it more likely for them toactually do that sooner rather
than later.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
That kind of leads into the next thought, and maybe
this should have been the firstquestion.
But when I start thinking aboutchange in an organization, why
is it that folks do strugglewith change?
You have the staff or the teamthat's changing, but in addition
, we see leaders struggle withthat.
Myself included, I amdefinitely falling to struggling
(04:19):
with leading through change.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So let me ask you a question when do you think
change is?
A good idea.
Change, in my experience, oftencomes as a necessity or a felt
necessity, where it either feelslike it must happen or there's
a needed change, marketconditions, right, extremes, or
even small changes, even justchanges in staff right.
Sometimes staff leave and nowit's like, oh boy, we've got to
(04:45):
change departments or shake upstaffing.
So oftentimes it comes out ofsome either felt need, real or
perceived, but either way it'sreal to the leader at that time.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes.
So those are all amazinganswers and wonderful.
Change is a good idea when it'syour idea.
And this goes back to yourquestion why do people resist
change?
Right, because typically inmost organizations and same
thing in the franchise businessyou could have the owner of the
franchise who says I want tomake a change.
They consider different options, they have time to do that,
(05:21):
they look at differentdirections and so by the time
they decide to make the change,they're already on board.
When they announce it, theyforget that nobody else is
actually on board because nobodyelse has heard this before.
But this is how most changehappens A small group of people
decides to go in a certaindirection and then the other
(05:42):
people leaders and teams have toimplement it, but it's not
their idea.
I mean, even when change isyour idea, it can be really
tough, as you know, right.
So we typically do better if weare in control, right, and when
we talk about most peopleresist, there's the
instantaneous thing that what'sthe first question you think
(06:04):
somebody has when they hearabout a change?
A change gets announced.
Where do you think their braingoes?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I'm sure either they're saying well, why?
Why do we have to change?
Or how does this impact me?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
See, you're already a change expert and the thing.
We know this Honestly.
I've asked that question, Tom,to a number of people and
everybody gets the answer right.
Which is what does it mean forme?
And yet, when it comes toimplementing a change, all that
goes out the window.
Their brains start to work onall the details, and then it's
(06:38):
usually the human side or thewhy.
So most of the time, whenleaders announce a change, they
announce the what's changing andsometimes they'll get into the
benefits.
Here's what we're trying toachieve greater efficiency,
greater client experience, youknow whatever it is.
But there's that whole middlepiece.
Well, why are we changing?
What happens if we don't change?
(07:00):
And what is it I'm going to bemoving from and moving to?
That's the part that often getsleft out.
And so it's not that when youannounce a change, that most
people right away unless you'relike we're just going to give
you a lot of money, right?
Other than that, right, Mostpeople are not going to be
(07:21):
pleased or they're going to havesome form of caution.
The first favor that leaderscan actually do for themselves
or franchise owners is stoplooking at that as a problem.
That is neuroscience.
It is normal when somethingchanges in our environment, and
especially if I think you'remessing with my livelihood,
which is connected to mysurvival.
(07:42):
Right, this is where the egogoes, and this is one of the
neuroscience concepts I talkabout is negativity bias.
What we know is that our brainsgive at least and I really
think it's at least three timesmore psychological weight to the
negative than the positive.
However, the brain is an organof the past, so the only
(08:02):
negative it's pulling up is allthe terrible experiences where
they've been screwed over or hadproblems or lost something that
mattered to them.
When there was a change.
Loss can be something of asense of mastery.
Right, I knew how to do it thisway.
Now you're doing a differenttechnology system.
You're asking me to be abeginner again.
I don't like that.
(08:23):
Right, my ego is invested, forgood reason, at being a master,
and so the thing with thenegativity bias is we're not
only oftentimes dealing with thechange that's happening.
Now the person is going to allof that.
Why?
Because our ego, connected toour reptilian brain, is trying
to keep us alive.
So any change.
(08:43):
It sounds sophisticated, but inthe ego's very rational way of
working things out, you're goingto change this on me, I'm not
going to be good at it, I'mgoing to be fired, I'm destitute
, I'm dead.
The ego is always a zero-sumgame.
It's death.
There is fear and death.
And listen, we want the egoexactly as it is in that 0.0002%
(09:07):
of the time when our lifeliterally is in danger.
That's the only time.
So when leaders understand thatthat's a normal reaction, there
are things they can do toprovide people information.
So happiness is not a greatmeasure oftentimes of success.
Clarity is Are we clear what weknow now and what we don't know
(09:29):
now?
And then the other piece isjust simply, sometimes people
just need a couple of days or acouple of weeks to just adjust.
So it's that expectation thatpeople are going to be like yeah
, you know, no, probably not.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How can leaders use understanding some of the
neuroscience to help implementand you shared a little bit
about it, but maybe just alittle more detail how they
might be able to useneuroscience to help overcome
some of that natural resistancethat might come along, or maybe
even reduce it by maybe havingsome I don't want to call it
(10:07):
preventative measures, but maybesome pre-op type of work that
they might be able to do whenthey start executing on these
changes?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
You know.
So, first of all, thank you foryour questions, tom.
They're really, they're verythoughtful.
So the first thing a leader cando is start with yourself,
right.
First of all, if you can shiftyour mindset, there's a couple
of simple brain hacks, or littlehacks, that can help.
The first thing is, if I shiftmy perspective from resistance
(10:35):
is a problem to resistance aresimply concerns that haven't
been addressed yet, and you caneven feel, if you just imagine
that you're in that state, it'svery hard to be in frustration
and curiosity at the same time.
So that's the first thing youcan do is stop acting like it's
a problem.
(10:56):
It's not a permanent state,right?
So that's different.
You know, resistance is normal.
It's not a permanent state, andwe can talk more about that.
But the first thing is startwith yourself.
Drop the frustration, acceptthis, that people will need time
.
That's one.
The preventative thing is aninteresting one.
The answer is yes and no.
(11:16):
No meaning we can never controlhow anybody's going to react.
Right, and again, you could doall the things perfectly and
people are still going to beupset, and that's okay.
Then it's like ah, okay, you'reupset.
Help me understand.
What is it you're hearing, orwhat is it about this change
that's troubling for you?
(11:36):
So using that as a conversationstarter and stop looking at it
as people are in my way, allright, so that is.
Those are a couple of thingspeople can do.
The other thing is is takingsome time, and so I have three
priorities when it comes toleading change.
News thing is is taking sometime, and so I have three
priorities when it comes toleading change Newsflash.
This isn't new.
Okay, these are things thatI've just tried to repackage.
(11:58):
So compassion, communicationand clarity are the three things
from which action comes.
So, from a compassionperspective, thinking in advance
, if I'm in Tom's shoes, I'mgoing to announce this change
and I'm in Tom's shoes, howmight Tom react?
What might Tom be losing orfear that he's going to lose?
How do I help Tom understandhow he's connected to the change
(12:22):
, to use those in the futurestate?
It's just taking a couple ofminutes and thinking about it
and then being prepared.
So one, if somebody does have anegative reaction, it doesn't
throw you all off.
You're just like oh yeah, it'snormal.
It's actually very generous tolet people have their reaction.
(12:42):
It's okay, you don't have toreact, you don't have to argue
with it.
And then the second thing ishow can I provide them with as
much information as possible?
Because that's the secondneuroscience concept is
uncertainty.
Our brains hate that more thananything.
Why?
Because uncertainty could equaldeath.
Right, if I don't know, it's asurprise, it could hurt me.
(13:04):
And remember, that's alwayswhere people are going
instantaneously.
We have to train ourselves outof that.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And, as you're describing that, it makes me
think of some things that eitherI've thought I've consulted
with lots of clients andcompanies and leaders over the
years and makes me think of whatothers might be thinking.
So I'm sure in your line ofwork you've run across a bunch
of folks that have these, Iguess, myths or preconceived
ideas of what might be, and soI'd love for you to maybe talk
(13:37):
what are some of those mythsthat leaders often have in
regards to change.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I think the first thing is that they have to be a
hundred percent on board withthe change themselves to lead
through it, with the changethemselves to lead through it,
and you don't.
As a matter of fact, yourconcerns, your own concerns or
fears, are a beautiful way toshow authenticity and that
people aren't alone.
And so it's not like you'regoing to go in there and be like
(14:05):
, oh my God, this is crazy, Ican't believe our like you know,
doing this change right.
Like what are they thinking?
No, that's not what you'redoing.
But when you meet with yourteam, when you open the door and
say, listen, this change ishappening.
I've got some mixed feelingsabout it.
I'd love to hear yourperspective.
And so there's a way in whichwe're going to do this.
And then there is, especiallyif people are really struggling,
(14:28):
knowing that you need to givethem some time.
But the other thing is optimism.
We don't leverage optimismenough and the neuroscience
around that, and there's thismyth that oh, it's just
Pollyanna, you're just going tobe happy, everybody's happy,
everything's good.
No, that's not what it is.
Optimism is what we know helpsfree a brain that is stuck in
(14:53):
fear or anxiety.
And so what a leader can do andagain, it's a thoughtful way of
timing of doing that is takingtime to imagine with their team
what could go right here,because, remember, we've got the
negativity bias, we haveuncertainty, but what could go
(15:14):
right?
This is very powerful,specifically if you've got a
founder or somebody whoremembers that they had a vision
.
They had to see that waspossible, despite all of the
obstacles, to keep going.
And so they're using thatfundamental North Star and the
research tells us the more ateam can share a common vision,
(15:38):
even if it's tough right now.
So what could go right?
How might?
Let's imagine it's a year fromnow and we've knocked it out of
the park.
What are we feeling?
What are we proud of?
What are some obstacles we'veovercome feeling?
What are we proud of?
What are some obstacles we'veovercome?
What are we giving to ourclients now that we hadn't
before?
What did we learn?
I mean any of these things, buteverybody comes together and
(16:00):
holds a common positive vision.
The neuroscience and the datasays it is much more likely to
happen because, ultimately,something wonderful is much more
.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
That's excellent.
That's excellent.
Well, elizabeth, as you've beensharing this and someone might
be listening and say, well, shesounds great.
How can someone reach out toyou and find out more about what
you're doing?
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So feel free to check out
elizabethmorantransformationcomor connect with me on LinkedIn.
Say you heard me on thisbeautiful, amazing Tom's podcast
, Big Sky Podcast, and thenwe'll go from there.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
This is a great time in the show where we make a
transition and we ask everyguest the same four questions
before they go.
And the first question we askis have you had a miss or two on
your journey and something youlearned from it?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, I have had a number of those.
I've learned, ultimately, howimportant authenticity is and
how fear fear is a lie.
That's been really powerful notto give into that.
It's really a choice, making achoice all the time because the
(17:12):
ego is always jumping in.
So always choosing a morehopeful because, again, I might
be uncertain, something might begoing wrong, but how.
I might be uncertain, somethingmight be going wrong, but how
do I want to go through thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Excellent.
Well, let's look at the otherside.
How about a make or a win, ahighlight or two?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh my gosh, one of the best things I ever did.
Bitcoin, that's a win.
I felt instantaneous right away.
Yes, you know a bunch of yearsago and I've I've loved it.
To me, that represents freedom,power to the people.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Wonderful Love that.
I love that.
Well, let's talk about amultiplier that you've used to
develop or grow yourselfpersonally, professionally, or
organizations you've run.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think for me, strengths focusing on strength.
So when I was at ADP we boughtthe Marcus Buckingham Company, I
did a little eye roll becauseat first I was like, oh strength
, blah, blah, blah sounded likefluff, but that was very
powerful, especially combinedwith the neuroscience.
The more that people could dothings, that when I say
strengths, things that energizethem, the better they felt, the
(18:19):
better they were, and so for methat has just become both in my
own life and the people that Iwork with, and for doing as much
as I can to put them in theirstrengths as often as possible.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Excellent, and the final question we ask every
guest is what does success meanto you?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Living in joy as much as possible, and that doesn't
mean avoiding painful, difficultexperiences.
It means understanding.
I have chosen this.
I am a co-creator.
There must be a reason.
So how is this perfectlydesigned for my development
right now?
That, to me, is the path to getinto joy, versus staying stuck
(19:03):
in the fear.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And Elizabeth, as we bring this to a close, is there
anything you are hoping to shareor get across that you haven't
had a chance to yet?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean the only thing is is my book Forward Leading
your Team Through Change.
You know it's a playbook again,so I think it's very practical
if a leader is wanting to getbetter at this.
For instance, there are scripts, conversation guides and here
are the four toughest questionsyou might get related to a
change and I script out answersto make it easier and then it's
(19:32):
got some of that coolneuroscience very practical,
easy in it.
So hopefully that could behelpful for folks.
And, for instance, if you'vegot a reader excuse me, a
listener who heard this, I amhappy if they share with me that
they heard this in the podcast,I'm happy to give them free
access to the audio book.
So if they buy the book andthey want free access, they can
(19:53):
mention you to me on LinkedInand I will give them free access
to the audio book.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Elizabeth, thank you so much for a fantastic
interview, and let's go aheadand jump into today's three key
takeaways.
So takeaway number one is whenshe said that change is a good
idea when it's your idea, and Ithought that was a great great
description, because when it'syour idea, you have the time to
(20:20):
think about this and process itand oftentimes take months, or
sometimes years, at least weeks,before it's implemented.
And when your team finds outthey're not necessarily on board
yet, because they're going toask why are we changing?
What happens if we don't change?
What am I changing to or movingto and from?
(20:42):
So when they react, recognizethat that's normal.
Takeaway number two I like howshe said this the ego is a
zero-sum game.
It works in fear and death.
Unquote.
I just thought that was a greatsummary.
Takeaway number three is shegave us some change myths that
leaders might have and so somechange.
(21:03):
Myths are where they don't letthe team know, and so she said
you know, let your team know.
And if you're having mixedfeelings about it as well,
that's okay, Share that, Letthem know.
And she also said it's reallyimportant to share optimism.
She said that optimism helps tofree a brain from being stuck
in a negativity, bias oruncertainty.
(21:23):
And so, the more you can sharea goal and North Star, she said,
the data shows that it is muchmore likely to happen.
And now it's time for today'swin-win.
So today's win-win is when shegave us a three-word summary to
help with change managementimplementation.
(21:45):
I love these three words and Ilove the alliteration.
She said you need compassion,communication and clarity.
Compassion, communication andclarity.
I love that.
It makes me think.
Okay, compassion I'm going tothink about how that other
person might be feeling.
Try to live, have a sharedexperience with that person that
might be getting this news forthe first time.
(22:06):
Communication as the leader, I'mgoing to communicate and
hopefully over-communicate.
I would guess it's probablyhard to over-communicate.
It's easy to under-communicate,so error on the side of
over-communicating.
And three is to be very, veryclear Provide easy to under
communicate, so error on theside of over communicating.
(22:27):
And three is to be very, veryclear provide clarity to your
team.
I think that was fantastic.
So compassion, communicationand clarity If you can do those
three things, it's going to be ahuge win for you and the
business and getting done whatyou want to do, and it's a huge
win for your team and your staff, because it's going to help
them get on board and feelcomfortable with this change
sooner rather than later.
And so that's the episode today.
(22:47):
Folks, Please make sure yousubscribe to the podcast and
give us a review and remember ifyou or anyone you know might be
ready to franchise theirbusiness or take their franchise
company to the next level.
Please connect with us atBigSkyFranchiseTeamcom.
Thanks for tuning in and welook forward to having you back
next week.
Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast,
where, each week, we helpgrowth-minded entrepreneurs and
franchise leaders take the nextstep in their expansion journey.
I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceoof Big Sky Franchise Team, and
as we open today, I'm wonderinghow your employees and
franchisees manage or deal withchanges that you implement at
(00:22):
your organization.
Do they dread it?
Do they revolt?
Do they organization?
Do they dread it?
Do they revolt?
Do they complain?
Do they embrace it?
Well, our guest today is DrElizabeth Moran, who is a
neuroscience and changemanagement expert, and she
shares with us some practicaltips and ideas on how to
implement and improve yourchange management efforts.
(00:43):
Now, dr Moran is an experiencedleader, coach and consultant in
providing neuroscience-basedguidance to successfully
navigate change.
Partnering with businessleaders from Fortune 500
companies to smaller startups,she has successfully supported
large and small-scaletransformation efforts through
practical advice and actions tomake change management more
(01:04):
quote, manageable, unquote.
She authored the Amazonbestselling book Forward Leading
your Team Through Change,making her practical approach
accessible to all people and alltypes of leaders globally.
You're going to love thisinterview, so let's go ahead and
jump right into it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm Dr Elizabeth Moran.
I am the founder of ElizabethMoran Transformation.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Wonderful.
Well, transformation is a greatword to help springboard into
the conversation because reallyyou're dialed into this idea of
neuroscience and change andleadership and talking through
that.
So just to open things up andjump right into the thick of
some of this, is we startthinking about changing in this
(01:48):
concept of forward change, asyou've described in some of your
pre-show material here.
What makes your forward changeapproach more manageable for
some of this change managementthan maybe others?
So, thank you so much for thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There is so much great literature and work out
there.
I've been a complete nerd whenit comes to change for a long
time probably, like you know, wewere talking about 20 years and
it was always something I kindof did on the side.
But every time I would you know, was inside organizations.
A leader would want to make achange or the group would want
to make a change for a very goodreason.
They knew they had to dosomething different when they
(02:25):
were leading humans throughchange, but it seemed very
overwhelming and unstructured.
So what I did was I looked andI'd studied a lot of the
literature Cotter Dave Potruck,stacking the Deck, another one
called the Technology Fallacy sothere's no shortage of material
.
What's very hard for leaders, asmany of them were doing this
off the side of their desk.
They didn't have a separatechange management function and
(02:48):
even if they did, oftentimes itwas focused on the project
aspects.
So my uniqueness was I wouldtitrate it down actually with
the business leaders what arethe key essentials you probably
should do that will help yourpeople, leaders and those who
work for them implement thechange and what are those basics
(03:10):
?
And then the emotional side,which is really where, why I
wrote the book.
It was more of a focus on that,which is how do you understand
and that's where some of theneuroscience comes in why people
react the way they do.
This isn't an excuse.
It's not to give people a pass.
It's simply that you, as aleader, when you understand
(03:30):
these natural workings of thesehuman beings these pesky humans,
as we like to say sometimes theactions that you can take are
more likely to get you apositive result Really.
And the positive result is ifyou have a change where you need
people to behave differentlythan how they are doing
currently, then there are somethings you have to do that will
(03:54):
make it more likely for them toactually do that sooner rather
than later.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
That kind of leads into the next thought, and maybe
this should have been the firstquestion.
But when I start thinking aboutchange in an organization, why
is it that folks do strugglewith change?
You have the staff or the teamthat's changing, but in addition
, we see leaders struggle withthat.
Myself included, I amdefinitely falling to struggling
(04:19):
with leading through change.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So let me ask you a question when do you think
change is?
A good idea.
Change, in my experience, oftencomes as a necessity or a felt
necessity, where it either feelslike it must happen or there's
a needed change, marketconditions, right, extremes, or
even small changes, even justchanges in staff right.
Sometimes staff leave and nowit's like, oh boy, we've got to
(04:45):
change departments or shake upstaffing.
So oftentimes it comes out ofsome either felt need, real or
perceived, but either way it'sreal to the leader at that time.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes.
So those are all amazinganswers and wonderful.
Change is a good idea when it'syour idea.
And this goes back to yourquestion why do people resist
change?
Right, because typically inmost organizations and same
thing in the franchise businessyou could have the owner of the
franchise who says I want tomake a change.
They consider different options, they have time to do that,
(05:21):
they look at differentdirections and so by the time
they decide to make the change,they're already on board.
When they announce it, theyforget that nobody else is
actually on board because nobodyelse has heard this before.
But this is how most changehappens A small group of people
decides to go in a certaindirection and then the other
(05:42):
people leaders and teams have toimplement it, but it's not
their idea.
I mean, even when change isyour idea, it can be really
tough, as you know, right.
So we typically do better if weare in control, right, and when
we talk about most peopleresist, there's the
instantaneous thing that what'sthe first question you think
(06:04):
somebody has when they hearabout a change?
A change gets announced.
Where do you think their braingoes?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I'm sure either they're saying well, why?
Why do we have to change?
Or how does this impact me?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
See, you're already a change expert and the thing.
We know this Honestly.
I've asked that question, Tom,to a number of people and
everybody gets the answer right.
Which is what does it mean forme?
And yet, when it comes toimplementing a change, all that
goes out the window.
Their brains start to work onall the details, and then it's
(06:38):
usually the human side or thewhy.
So most of the time, whenleaders announce a change, they
announce the what's changing andsometimes they'll get into the
benefits.
Here's what we're trying toachieve greater efficiency,
greater client experience, youknow whatever it is.
But there's that whole middlepiece.
Well, why are we changing?
What happens if we don't change?
(07:00):
And what is it I'm going to bemoving from and moving to?
That's the part that often getsleft out.
And so it's not that when youannounce a change, that most
people right away unless you'relike we're just going to give
you a lot of money, right?
Other than that, right, Mostpeople are not going to be
(07:21):
pleased or they're going to havesome form of caution.
The first favor that leaderscan actually do for themselves
or franchise owners is stoplooking at that as a problem.
That is neuroscience.
It is normal when somethingchanges in our environment, and
especially if I think you'remessing with my livelihood,
which is connected to mysurvival.
(07:42):
Right, this is where the egogoes, and this is one of the
neuroscience concepts I talkabout is negativity bias.
What we know is that our brainsgive at least and I really
think it's at least three timesmore psychological weight to the
negative than the positive.
However, the brain is an organof the past, so the only
(08:02):
negative it's pulling up is allthe terrible experiences where
they've been screwed over or hadproblems or lost something that
mattered to them.
When there was a change.
Loss can be something of asense of mastery.
Right, I knew how to do it thisway.
Now you're doing a differenttechnology system.
You're asking me to be abeginner again.
I don't like that.
(08:23):
Right, my ego is invested, forgood reason, at being a master,
and so the thing with thenegativity bias is we're not
only oftentimes dealing with thechange that's happening.
Now the person is going to allof that.
Why?
Because our ego, connected toour reptilian brain, is trying
to keep us alive.
So any change.
(08:43):
It sounds sophisticated, but inthe ego's very rational way of
working things out, you're goingto change this on me, I'm not
going to be good at it, I'mgoing to be fired, I'm destitute
, I'm dead.
The ego is always a zero-sumgame.
It's death.
There is fear and death.
And listen, we want the egoexactly as it is in that 0.0002%
(09:07):
of the time when our lifeliterally is in danger.
That's the only time.
So when leaders understand thatthat's a normal reaction, there
are things they can do toprovide people information.
So happiness is not a greatmeasure oftentimes of success.
Clarity is Are we clear what weknow now and what we don't know
(09:29):
now?
And then the other piece isjust simply, sometimes people
just need a couple of days or acouple of weeks to just adjust.
So it's that expectation thatpeople are going to be like yeah
, you know, no, probably not.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How can leaders use understanding some of the
neuroscience to help implementand you shared a little bit
about it, but maybe just alittle more detail how they
might be able to useneuroscience to help overcome
some of that natural resistancethat might come along, or maybe
even reduce it by maybe havingsome I don't want to call it
(10:07):
preventative measures, but maybesome pre-op type of work that
they might be able to do whenthey start executing on these
changes?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
You know.
So, first of all, thank you foryour questions, tom.
They're really, they're verythoughtful.
So the first thing a leader cando is start with yourself,
right.
First of all, if you can shiftyour mindset, there's a couple
of simple brain hacks, or littlehacks, that can help.
The first thing is, if I shiftmy perspective from resistance
(10:35):
is a problem to resistance aresimply concerns that haven't
been addressed yet, and you caneven feel, if you just imagine
that you're in that state, it'svery hard to be in frustration
and curiosity at the same time.
So that's the first thing youcan do is stop acting like it's
a problem.
(10:56):
It's not a permanent state,right?
So that's different.
You know, resistance is normal.
It's not a permanent state, andwe can talk more about that.
But the first thing is startwith yourself.
Drop the frustration, acceptthis, that people will need time
.
That's one.
The preventative thing is aninteresting one.
The answer is yes and no.
(11:16):
No meaning we can never controlhow anybody's going to react.
Right, and again, you could doall the things perfectly and
people are still going to beupset, and that's okay.
Then it's like ah, okay, you'reupset.
Help me understand.
What is it you're hearing, orwhat is it about this change
that's troubling for you?
(11:36):
So using that as a conversationstarter and stop looking at it
as people are in my way, allright, so that is.
Those are a couple of thingspeople can do.
The other thing is is takingsome time, and so I have three
priorities when it comes toleading change.
News thing is is taking sometime, and so I have three
priorities when it comes toleading change Newsflash.
This isn't new.
Okay, these are things thatI've just tried to repackage.
(11:58):
So compassion, communicationand clarity are the three things
from which action comes.
So, from a compassionperspective, thinking in advance
, if I'm in Tom's shoes, I'mgoing to announce this change
and I'm in Tom's shoes, howmight Tom react?
What might Tom be losing orfear that he's going to lose?
How do I help Tom understandhow he's connected to the change
(12:22):
, to use those in the futurestate?
It's just taking a couple ofminutes and thinking about it
and then being prepared.
So one, if somebody does have anegative reaction, it doesn't
throw you all off.
You're just like oh yeah, it'snormal.
It's actually very generous tolet people have their reaction.
(12:42):
It's okay, you don't have toreact, you don't have to argue
with it.
And then the second thing ishow can I provide them with as
much information as possible?
Because that's the secondneuroscience concept is
uncertainty.
Our brains hate that more thananything.
Why?
Because uncertainty could equaldeath.
Right, if I don't know, it's asurprise, it could hurt me.
(13:04):
And remember, that's alwayswhere people are going
instantaneously.
We have to train ourselves outof that.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And, as you're describing that, it makes me
think of some things that eitherI've thought I've consulted
with lots of clients andcompanies and leaders over the
years and makes me think of whatothers might be thinking.
So I'm sure in your line ofwork you've run across a bunch
of folks that have these, Iguess, myths or preconceived
ideas of what might be, and soI'd love for you to maybe talk
(13:37):
what are some of those mythsthat leaders often have in
regards to change.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I think the first thing is that they have to be a
hundred percent on board withthe change themselves to lead
through it, with the changethemselves to lead through it,
and you don't.
As a matter of fact, yourconcerns, your own concerns or
fears, are a beautiful way toshow authenticity and that
people aren't alone.
And so it's not like you'regoing to go in there and be like
(14:05):
, oh my God, this is crazy, Ican't believe our like you know,
doing this change right.
Like what are they thinking?
No, that's not what you'redoing.
But when you meet with yourteam, when you open the door and
say, listen, this change ishappening.
I've got some mixed feelingsabout it.
I'd love to hear yourperspective.
And so there's a way in whichwe're going to do this.
And then there is, especiallyif people are really struggling,
(14:28):
knowing that you need to givethem some time.
But the other thing is optimism.
We don't leverage optimismenough and the neuroscience
around that, and there's thismyth that oh, it's just
Pollyanna, you're just going tobe happy, everybody's happy,
everything's good.
No, that's not what it is.
Optimism is what we know helpsfree a brain that is stuck in
(14:53):
fear or anxiety.
And so what a leader can do andagain, it's a thoughtful way of
timing of doing that is takingtime to imagine with their team
what could go right here,because, remember, we've got the
negativity bias, we haveuncertainty, but what could go
(15:14):
right?
This is very powerful,specifically if you've got a
founder or somebody whoremembers that they had a vision
.
They had to see that waspossible, despite all of the
obstacles, to keep going.
And so they're using thatfundamental North Star and the
research tells us the more ateam can share a common vision,
(15:38):
even if it's tough right now.
So what could go right?
How might?
Let's imagine it's a year fromnow and we've knocked it out of
the park.
What are we feeling?
What are we proud of?
What are some obstacles we'veovercome feeling?
What are we proud of?
What are some obstacles we'veovercome?
What are we giving to ourclients now that we hadn't
before?
What did we learn?
I mean any of these things, buteverybody comes together and
(16:00):
holds a common positive vision.
The neuroscience and the datasays it is much more likely to
happen because, ultimately,something wonderful is much more
.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
That's excellent.
That's excellent.
Well, elizabeth, as you've beensharing this and someone might
be listening and say, well, shesounds great.
How can someone reach out toyou and find out more about what
you're doing?
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So feel free to check out
elizabethmorantransformationcomor connect with me on LinkedIn.
Say you heard me on thisbeautiful, amazing Tom's podcast
, Big Sky Podcast, and thenwe'll go from there.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
This is a great time in the show where we make a
transition and we ask everyguest the same four questions
before they go.
And the first question we askis have you had a miss or two on
your journey and something youlearned from it?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, I have had a number of those.
I've learned, ultimately, howimportant authenticity is and
how fear fear is a lie.
That's been really powerful notto give into that.
It's really a choice, making achoice all the time because the
(17:12):
ego is always jumping in.
So always choosing a morehopeful because, again, I might
be uncertain, something might begoing wrong, but how.
I might be uncertain, somethingmight be going wrong, but how
do I want to go through thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Excellent.
Well, let's look at the otherside.
How about a make or a win, ahighlight or two?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh my gosh, one of the best things I ever did.
Bitcoin, that's a win.
I felt instantaneous right away.
Yes, you know a bunch of yearsago and I've I've loved it.
To me, that represents freedom,power to the people.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Wonderful Love that.
I love that.
Well, let's talk about amultiplier that you've used to
develop or grow yourselfpersonally, professionally, or
organizations you've run.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think for me, strengths focusing on strength.
So when I was at ADP we boughtthe Marcus Buckingham Company, I
did a little eye roll becauseat first I was like, oh strength
, blah, blah, blah sounded likefluff, but that was very
powerful, especially combinedwith the neuroscience.
The more that people could dothings, that when I say
strengths, things that energizethem, the better they felt, the
(18:19):
better they were, and so for methat has just become both in my
own life and the people that Iwork with, and for doing as much
as I can to put them in theirstrengths as often as possible.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Excellent, and the final question we ask every
guest is what does success meanto you?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Living in joy as much as possible, and that doesn't
mean avoiding painful, difficultexperiences.
It means understanding.
I have chosen this.
I am a co-creator.
There must be a reason.
So how is this perfectlydesigned for my development
right now?
That, to me, is the path to getinto joy, versus staying stuck
(19:03):
in the fear.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And Elizabeth, as we bring this to a close, is there
anything you are hoping to shareor get across that you haven't
had a chance to yet?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean the only thing is is my book Forward Leading
your Team Through Change.
You know it's a playbook again,so I think it's very practical
if a leader is wanting to getbetter at this.
For instance, there are scripts, conversation guides and here
are the four toughest questionsyou might get related to a
change and I script out answersto make it easier and then it's
(19:32):
got some of that coolneuroscience very practical,
easy in it.
So hopefully that could behelpful for folks.
And, for instance, if you'vegot a reader excuse me, a
listener who heard this, I amhappy if they share with me that
they heard this in the podcast,I'm happy to give them free
access to the audio book.
So if they buy the book andthey want free access, they can
(19:53):
mention you to me on LinkedInand I will give them free access
to the audio book.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Elizabeth, thank you so much for a fantastic
interview, and let's go aheadand jump into today's three key
takeaways.
So takeaway number one is whenshe said that change is a good
idea when it's your idea, and Ithought that was a great great
description, because when it'syour idea, you have the time to
(20:20):
think about this and process itand oftentimes take months, or
sometimes years, at least weeks,before it's implemented.
And when your team finds outthey're not necessarily on board
yet, because they're going toask why are we changing?
What happens if we don't change?
What am I changing to or movingto and from?
(20:42):
So when they react, recognizethat that's normal.
Takeaway number two I like howshe said this the ego is a
zero-sum game.
It works in fear and death.
Unquote.
I just thought that was a greatsummary.
Takeaway number three is shegave us some change myths that
leaders might have and so somechange.
(21:03):
Myths are where they don't letthe team know, and so she said
you know, let your team know.
And if you're having mixedfeelings about it as well,
that's okay, Share that, Letthem know.
And she also said it's reallyimportant to share optimism.
She said that optimism helps tofree a brain from being stuck
in a negativity, bias oruncertainty.
(21:23):
And so, the more you can sharea goal and North Star, she said,
the data shows that it is muchmore likely to happen.
And now it's time for today'swin-win.
So today's win-win is when shegave us a three-word summary to
help with change managementimplementation.
(21:45):
I love these three words and Ilove the alliteration.
She said you need compassion,communication and clarity.
Compassion, communication andclarity.
I love that.
It makes me think.
Okay, compassion I'm going tothink about how that other
person might be feeling.
Try to live, have a sharedexperience with that person that
might be getting this news forthe first time.
(22:06):
Communication as the leader, I'mgoing to communicate and
hopefully over-communicate.
I would guess it's probablyhard to over-communicate.
It's easy to under-communicate,so error on the side of
over-communicating.
And three is to be very, veryclear Provide easy to under
communicate, so error on theside of over communicating.
(22:27):
And three is to be very, veryclear provide clarity to your
team.
I think that was fantastic.
So compassion, communicationand clarity If you can do those
three things, it's going to be ahuge win for you and the
business and getting done whatyou want to do, and it's a huge
win for your team and your staff, because it's going to help
them get on board and feelcomfortable with this change
sooner rather than later.
And so that's the episode today.
(22:47):
Folks, Please make sure yousubscribe to the podcast and
give us a review and remember ifyou or anyone you know might be
ready to franchise theirbusiness or take their franchise
company to the next level.
Please connect with us atBigSkyFranchiseTeamcom.
Thanks for tuning in and welook forward to having you back
next week.
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