August 15, 2023 • 21 mins
This episode explores the chilling unsolved murders of Diana Smith and Scott Jones. Diana, a promising theater set design graduate, and Scott, a former x-ray equipment salesperson turned landscape architecture student, had lives full of potential that were abruptly ended when their bodies were discovered in Scott’s apartment.
There are suspicious details surrounding the case, from the peculiar $12 check endorsed by Diana, to the elusive woman seen with her just days before the tragic incident. From the drug evidence to the theories surrounding a possible suicide pact and troubling past relationships, curiosity will be stoked in this bewildering true crime narrative.
Ackerberg, Peter. “Mystery of why couple died has investigators perplexed.” The Minneapolis Star. April 7, 1981.
Kimball, Joe. “Without funds for cold case unit, St. Paul police still working on unsolved murders.” Minnpost, Minnesota. December 9, 2011.
Klauda, Paul. “2 St. Paul deaths called suspicious by police.” Minneapolis Tribune. March 13, 1981.
Klauda, Paul. “St. Paul police seek woman in slayings.”
Janos, Adam. “Chloroform: How the 'Knockout Drug' Has Been Used to Murder Over the Last 30 Years.” www.aetv.com. March 12, 2018.
Lowe, Caroline. “Cold Case: Chloroform Murders.” CBS News, Minnesota. February 27, 2006.
Parsons, Jim. “Case of the chloroformed couple still a mystery to St. Paul police. Minneapolis Tribune. March 7, 1982.
“Deaths: Mystery a murder?” Associated Press. May 7, 1981.
“Examiner: Couple were poisoned.” Associated Press. May 28, 1981.
“Murder mystery still baffles St. Paul police.” Associated Press. May 8, 1982.
“Obituaries: Llewellyn Pearl Wilt Jones.” The News Journal. Wilmington, Delaware. March 21, 2012.
Minnesota Historical Society. www.mnhs.org
For images related to the cases, check out the Instagram.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, I'm Julia and murder is bad.
Before we get started, I justwant to say thank you to
(00:24):
everyone who is showing theirsupport for the podcast.
You guys have been very sweeton Instagram At murder is bad
podcast and just thank you.
It makes me feel good that youlike what I'm doing.
Alright well, without furtherado, here's the case.
(00:46):
Diana Smith called her fatheraround 9 50 pm On Saturday,
march 7th 1981.
She had called just to see howhe was doing and by the end of
the call they had actuallydecided to go to church together
the next morning and maybe evengrab brunch, if there was time.
When Diana's father showed up,diana doesn't immediately come
(01:09):
out, though.
He knocks and waits for about15 minutes before noticing that
Diana's car isn't even there.
He thinks he sees herboyfriend's car and and starts
to wonder if there was amiscommunication.
So he goes to their church andexpects to see Diana there, but
she's not there either.
(01:30):
So Diana Jean Smith was born onJune 29th 1957 to Jean and
Frederick James Smith.
Jean Smith was a poet and wasactually named one of the top
100 poets in the InternationalLibrary of Poetry.
Frederick James Smith, who wentby Jim, was a commercial artist
(01:51):
and he was the originalillustrator of the Marlboro
Marlboro man.
Marlboro Marlboro, thatcigarette dude.
Diana graduated from MinnetonkaHigh School in 1975 before
attending the University ofMinnesota and then transferring
(02:11):
to Hamline University, which islocated between Minneapolis and
St Paul, minnesota.
She graduated from a theaterset design program in 1980 and
continued to work in the theaterdepartment at Hamline while
also working in the offices of alumber company.
At the start of 1981, just toset the scene as I like to do,
(02:36):
peter Sutcliffe, the YorkshireRipper, was caught and charged
on suspicion of murdering 13women.
Ronald Reagan was inauguratedI'm not saying those things are
connected, just given a generaloverview of 1981.
And popular things includedDukes of Hazard, star Wars and
(02:57):
Dolly Parton 925.
Prince Charles also announcedhis engagement to Lady Diana,
which made searching foranything related to Diana Smith
a little more difficult becausenewspapers were obsessed with
how Lady Di wanted to join thehunt.
Anyways, in March of 1981,diana Smith had just returned
(03:20):
from a National TheaterCompetition in Columbus, ohio,
where she had won honors and atleast 17 scholarship offers from
universities around the country.
She talked to her father aboutthis on their phone call on
March 7th.
After not seeing Diana atchurch, jim Smith called her
apartment but didn't receive ananswer.
(03:41):
He also called her boyfriend'sduplex but didn't get an answer
there either.
Diana's boyfriend was29-year-old Douglas Scott Jones.
He went by Scott from what Icould gather, and he had
recently enrolled in a landscapearchitecture program at the
University of Minnesota.
Scott had recently left afive-year stint as an x-ray
(04:05):
equipment salesperson at DuPont.
That was the same company hisfather worked at for 40 years.
Scott was born on March 25,1951, to Douglas and Llewellyn
Jones near Chicago, illinois.
The family moved to Wilmington,delaware, in 1968, and then
Scott attended Lynchburg Collegein Virginia until graduating in
(04:27):
1975.
He fell in love with theMinnesotan-Minnesotian outdoors
during a trip and decided tomove there.
This is when he changed careerpaths to landscaping, because he
really loved working outside.
In addition to being anabove-average student, scott
(04:48):
also worked part-time in achemistry lab.
Diana and Scott happened to meetrandomly at a car wash at the
end of the summer of 1980, andtheir romance was like a slow
development.
They were just hanging out andthen sparks kind of started
happening In a Minneapolis….
(05:09):
Why can I not speak today?
In a Minneapolis Tribunearticle by Paul Clowda it was
mentioned that they had enjoyeda champagne breakfast on
Valentine's Day and that Dianahad sketched a picture of a
family in-house with Scott andhad written Mrs Scott Jones.
It was evident to both theirfamilies that they loved each
(05:30):
other and were thinking aboutmarriage.
So after Jim Smith was unable toreach his daughter by phone or
at her apartment, he drove overto Scott's home, a duplex within
walking distance to Diana's.
When Jim arrived he noticedimmediately that the lights were
on, but when he knocked therewas no answer.
(05:51):
He spent the next couple daysreaching out to friends and
co-workers, as well as returningto both apartments.
He talked to Diana Saturday andspent Sunday looking for her.
On Monday Jim went back to theapartment with no answers.
Then he goes to the theaterdepartment at Hamline University
(06:12):
to look for Diana, but thestaff says she hasn't been there
for days.
On Tuesday Jim went back toDiana's in the morning and saw a
police officer writing a ticketon what he was now sure was
Scott's gold 1972 ChevroletImpala.
He let the police know whosecar it was and that he was
(06:33):
missing.
He then asked Diana's landlordto unlock her apartment.
When he went inside there wasnothing out of place.
He then went to Scott's, wherehe knocked over and over again,
still with no answer.
He spoke to Scott's neighborsbut got no useful information.
That's when he called policeand filed a missing persons
(06:53):
report for Diana, but rememberedthat the officer at the time
did not seem to be too worriedabout it because they were both
adults.
On Wednesday Jim went to Diana'sand Hamline's theater and then
to the police department.
The police told Jim to meetthem at Scott's.
(07:15):
They were able to get into theduplex by prying a basement
window open.
Jim stayed on the first floorwhile the police went to the
second where Scott's apartmentwas located.
Thinking there might have beena gas leak.
Jim shouted up to the policehow are the parakeets?
Because Scott had had two petparakeets tweedledy and tweedled
(07:36):
them After entering theapartment.
The police answered fine, butPolice had found the bodies of
Diana Smith and Scott Joneslying on the floor of the
apartment.
Jim remembered that the policetried to be gentle when they
(07:57):
told him what they'd found.
First reports said that Scottwas found in the living room and
Diana was found in the bedroom,both fully closed.
Except for shoes that wereplaced by the couch, there were
no signs of a struggle and thebedsheets, blanket and
pillowcases were missing.
Diana's mother, jean, had beenin California visiting relatives
(08:20):
and publishers.
She flew in the day after herdaughter's body had been
discovered.
Jean said we're just left witha lot of questions.
She had a lot behind her and anawful lot of knowledge, and
it's all gone.
The police also arranged forJim Smith to go under hypnosis
to remember more of the lastconversation he had with Diana.
(08:40):
A spokesperson for the RamseyCounty Medical Examiner told
press that the couple could havebeen dead for up to four days,
meaning the last person to talkto Diana would have been her
father.
The police had also foundDiana's silver 1980s Honda
Accord but didn't reveal thelocation initially.
(09:03):
But we find out that had beenfound at a holiday in five miles
away and there were just nosign of the keys and the
personal belongings given to theparents.
There was a note from Scott toDiana that read it looks like we
both have exciting careersahead of us.
Congrats to you and good luckin the future.
(09:25):
For exclamation points, allcaps love Scott.
Houses for both Diana and Scottwere held the following week.
Now, in the following months,police and medical examiners
made few strides in determiningwhat happened to Diana and Scott
.
They knew the couple hadattended a performance by the
(09:47):
Minnesota Dance Theater at theCollege of St Catherine.
On the same night Diana calledher father, but there was no
signs of forced entry orstruggle, no blood, no drugs or
alcohol in either of theirsystems and no wounds.
Assistant medical examinerMichael McGee, who I will be
calling Emmy McGee, saidsometimes I wake up in the
(10:11):
middle of the night and thinkabout what might have happened
in that apartment.
In a Minneapolis Star article,peter Ackerburt said they were
just a couple named Smith andJones.
In May Emmy McGee revealed thatthey were pretty sure the cause
of death was actuallychloroform poisoning and this
(10:31):
case is known as the chloroformmurders.
But I didn't want to call itthat to spoil the tale and also
I don't like it when it's likesome splashy name and we don't
actually say the victims names.
Anyways, the urine samples fromboth Diana and Scott had to be
(10:51):
sent to the Minnesota Bureau ofCriminal Apprehension, or MBOCA,
and it took two months for theresults to come back.
Chloroform is often seen inworks of fiction as a quick way
to knock people out via a dousedrag, but in an article on
AETVcom, forensic biologistNathan Lentz said it actually
(11:15):
requires careful dosing toachieve a simple depression of
the central nervous systemwithout affecting the autonomic
functions like breathing.
He also said that mostchloroform-related deaths are
the result of respiratoryfailure or fatal cardiac
(11:35):
arrhythmia.
By this time the public hasseen multiple high-profile cases
.
Jennifer Clapper, samina andMom and Kaylee Anthony were a
few cases mentioned in that sameA&E article which will be
linked in the show notes.
But back in 1981, there hadonly been six chloroform-related
(11:57):
deaths in the five years priorto the murders of Diana Smith
and Scott Jones.
There had been talk that itcould have been some sort of
suicide pact, but the finding ofchloroform shut that theory
down because of the amount thatwould be needed and the speed in
which it would take effect.
There were no other traces ofchloroform in the apartment,
(12:18):
which means whoever administeredit also removed it from the
apartment, which obviouslycouldn't have been Diana or
Scott.
Also, in May police startedlooking for a woman who may have
had drinks with Diana.
The same Saturday she lastspoke to her father.
Police received a $12 canceledcheck that had been endorsed by
(12:39):
Diana from the restaurantGuadalajeris, which is a bar and
grill that isn't afraid ofwordplay.
A waitress came forward andsaid she remembered serving
Diana and another woman between10 pm and 1 am.
The waitress was thenhypnotized to get a description
(12:59):
of the woman who she had seenwith Diana brown hair, with
bangs, wearing a large diamondring, a gap in her front teeth,
and looked around 30 years old.
They're just hypnotizingeverybody, because why not?
It was also noted that thecouple's clothing had been
rearranged.
There was an electric clockcord that had been found in
(13:21):
Diana's hand and it had stoppedthe clock at 10.12.
To have fallen the way he wasfound, police Chief Bill
McCutcheon said the scene wasthere to give one impression and
when we reconstructed the scenewe reached the conclusion it
was staged, someone was tryingto mislead and whether there was
(13:46):
a lack of evidence or somethingelse, a movement in this
mysterious case stopped beingreported on.
My theory that has no backingis that another murder in
Minnesota was being focused on,that of 18-year-old Carly Jo
Nyland.
This also overlapped with theWeepy Voice killer murders, also
(14:09):
in Minnesota.
But whatever the reason, dianaSmith and Scott Jones are not
mentioned again until theone-year anniversary of their
murders.
At that time, police released ahefty amount of the information
they had gathered to the press.
Some of the things that arelearned is that Scott was found
face down.
Burns were actually foundaround the victim's mouths and
(14:32):
nose, contributing to the theorythat a chloroform rag was held
over their airways and drugs hadbeen found.
But, like the rest of the scene, the drugs seemed staged as
well.
On the coffee table was a smallscale, empty plastic bags, a
water pipe and bits of marijuana.
More marijuana had been foundon the bookshelf, but it was
(14:55):
obvious that the books had beenrearranged before the drugs were
placed there.
The marijuana of it all is justconfusing to me.
Marijuana does not make methink that this couple had a
suicide pact or accidentaloverdoses.
It doesn't lead me to anyconclusions, really, and the
police felt the same way,especially after talking to
friends of Diana and Scott.
(15:16):
Scott's friends mentioned thatScott rarely partook in any
substances, including alcohol.
The occasional beer or glass ofwine was the most friends could
say they saw him drinking A manDiana used to date did mention
that she had quote fooled aroundwith cocaine, but further
investigation found nomeaningful involvement in drugs.
(15:38):
The few articles that came outalso went into how Diana had
been dating around and bothfamilies confirmed that Scott
knew this and that it was not aproblem.
They just had that kind ofrelationship.
They also gave severalpsychological stress evaluations
.
There was actually a machinecalled the Psychological Stress
(16:00):
Evaluator which recorded andmeasured micro-trimmers in a
person's voice.
Its validity actually ends upin the same pile as the
polygraph, but in 81 they usedit on a bunch of people.
The crazy thing is thatsometimes police would say this
person showed stress, but takingthe test can be stressful.
(16:20):
And then when another personshows stress they're like oh, do
you fail the test?
That's suspicious.
And they make it a footnotewhen their main suspect actually
passes the stress test.
So shortly after Diana's andScott's bodies were found,
(16:42):
diana's parents actually turnedover the name of a dental
student Diana had dated.
The police were particularlyinterested in this man because
he would have access tochloroform as it was used as an
anesthetic back then.
They had also looked into anex-girlfriend of Scott's that he
had dated for two years beforebreaking up.
(17:04):
Shortly before dating Diana andpolice also spoke to a theater
associate that matched thedescription of the gap tooth
woman seen with Diana on thenight of March 7th.
She said she didn't like Dianabut that she hadn't gone out
with her.
That woman exhibited stress onthe stress test, but the
waitress couldn't ID her.
So police were like mint, notyou.
(17:26):
And while police looked intothese other people, they were
most suspicious of the dentalstudent Diana had dated.
He had actually spoken to Dianaon March 7th, which was the day
last day anyone saw her alive,and he invited her to hang out
with him and some friends, butshe declined.
Then, when police initiallyspoke to him after the murders,
(17:50):
he said that he had no ideawhere Scott lived.
But then he ended up callingthe police back to say, oh, he'd
actually been there andmight've touched something so
they might find his fingerprints.
His story was that he and Dianahad been driving around and
Diana asked if he wanted to meetScott.
They stopped by Scott'sapartment.
(18:10):
He wasn't there, but they hadbeen inside for a short period
of time Creally, sus.
But this guy also passed thestress test and his fingerprints
weren't found in Scott'sapartment.
On top of all of that, a littleafter the year anniversary of
Diana's and Scott's murders, thesame dental student was
arrested, charged and sent toprison for the kidnapping and
(18:34):
rape of another ex-girlfriend.
That was, according to a CBSNews report by Caroline Lowe in
2006.
At the end of the article, itmentioned that evidence from the
apartment was being sent fornew DNA analysis and that
results should be back in a week.
Except the next time Diana andScott are mentioned are in 2011,
(18:56):
and even then they just appearon a list of Minnesota cold
cases that need more funds toinvestigate and process.
I also found an entry onMichelle McNamara's site True
Crime Diaries using the WaybackMachine.
It was in a section called Intheir Words, where Michelle
would post emails sent to herabout cases with a blurb about
(19:20):
the case.
A man named Chris Coben wroteto her about knowing Diana Smith
Quote though there were noromantic sparks, I thought she
was pretty and interesting.
During the course of theevening, I remember she told me
she was having trouble withsomeone a stalker type, and I
remember she mentioned somethingmedical, perhaps a teacher or
(19:42):
fellow student.
Chris went on to say that hetold police, who told him that
lined up with a suspect, butalso they didn't seem that
interested in the information.
He then said that he had kepttabs on the case and remembered
reading strange stuff about thesuspect and the suspect's
brother and quote, unquote, hissubsequent conduct and they're
(20:05):
falling out.
That's it.
That's everything on this casewhich still remains cold.
Diana Smith's friends describedher as intelligent, well liked
and very friendly.
She had recently been selectedto direct a spring production
for Hamline University.
She chose the ballad of littlered writing hood and had been
(20:30):
sketching up set designs for it.
She would have been 66 yearsold.
Scott Jones was described asquiet and friendly, the kind of
guy you couldn't imagine havingenemies Quote.
He was a warm and outgoingperson.
Everyone was automaticallydrawn to Scott.
(20:51):
He would have been 72 years old.
["the End of the World"].
Thank you for listening toMurder is Bad.
If you're interested in seeingphotos related to these cases,
you can go to the Instagram atMurder is Bad podcast and if you
(21:13):
like listening, make sure yousubscribe and rate and review,
please on Apple Podcasts orwherever you get your podcasts.
I really appreciate it.
Take care of each other.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Bye ["The End of the World"].
["the End of the World"].
Hello, I'm Julia and murder is bad.
Before we get started, I justwant to say thank you to
(00:24):
everyone who is showing theirsupport for the podcast.
You guys have been very sweeton Instagram At murder is bad
podcast and just thank you.
It makes me feel good that youlike what I'm doing.
Alright well, without furtherado, here's the case.
(00:46):
Diana Smith called her fatheraround 9 50 pm On Saturday,
march 7th 1981.
She had called just to see howhe was doing and by the end of
the call they had actuallydecided to go to church together
the next morning and maybe evengrab brunch, if there was time.
When Diana's father showed up,diana doesn't immediately come
(01:09):
out, though.
He knocks and waits for about15 minutes before noticing that
Diana's car isn't even there.
He thinks he sees herboyfriend's car and and starts
to wonder if there was amiscommunication.
So he goes to their church andexpects to see Diana there, but
she's not there either.
(01:30):
So Diana Jean Smith was born onJune 29th 1957 to Jean and
Frederick James Smith.
Jean Smith was a poet and wasactually named one of the top
100 poets in the InternationalLibrary of Poetry.
Frederick James Smith, who wentby Jim, was a commercial artist
(01:51):
and he was the originalillustrator of the Marlboro
Marlboro man.
Marlboro Marlboro, thatcigarette dude.
Diana graduated from MinnetonkaHigh School in 1975 before
attending the University ofMinnesota and then transferring
(02:11):
to Hamline University, which islocated between Minneapolis and
St Paul, minnesota.
She graduated from a theaterset design program in 1980 and
continued to work in the theaterdepartment at Hamline while
also working in the offices of alumber company.
At the start of 1981, just toset the scene as I like to do,
(02:36):
peter Sutcliffe, the YorkshireRipper, was caught and charged
on suspicion of murdering 13women.
Ronald Reagan was inauguratedI'm not saying those things are
connected, just given a generaloverview of 1981.
And popular things includedDukes of Hazard, star Wars and
(02:57):
Dolly Parton 925.
Prince Charles also announcedhis engagement to Lady Diana,
which made searching foranything related to Diana Smith
a little more difficult becausenewspapers were obsessed with
how Lady Di wanted to join thehunt.
Anyways, in March of 1981,diana Smith had just returned
(03:20):
from a National TheaterCompetition in Columbus, ohio,
where she had won honors and atleast 17 scholarship offers from
universities around the country.
She talked to her father aboutthis on their phone call on
March 7th.
After not seeing Diana atchurch, jim Smith called her
apartment but didn't receive ananswer.
(03:41):
He also called her boyfriend'sduplex but didn't get an answer
there either.
Diana's boyfriend was29-year-old Douglas Scott Jones.
He went by Scott from what Icould gather, and he had
recently enrolled in a landscapearchitecture program at the
University of Minnesota.
Scott had recently left afive-year stint as an x-ray
(04:05):
equipment salesperson at DuPont.
That was the same company hisfather worked at for 40 years.
Scott was born on March 25,1951, to Douglas and Llewellyn
Jones near Chicago, illinois.
The family moved to Wilmington,delaware, in 1968, and then
Scott attended Lynchburg Collegein Virginia until graduating in
(04:27):
1975.
He fell in love with theMinnesotan-Minnesotian outdoors
during a trip and decided tomove there.
This is when he changed careerpaths to landscaping, because he
really loved working outside.
In addition to being anabove-average student, scott
(04:48):
also worked part-time in achemistry lab.
Diana and Scott happened to meetrandomly at a car wash at the
end of the summer of 1980, andtheir romance was like a slow
development.
They were just hanging out andthen sparks kind of started
happening In a Minneapolis….
(05:09):
Why can I not speak today?
In a Minneapolis Tribunearticle by Paul Clowda it was
mentioned that they had enjoyeda champagne breakfast on
Valentine's Day and that Dianahad sketched a picture of a
family in-house with Scott andhad written Mrs Scott Jones.
It was evident to both theirfamilies that they loved each
(05:30):
other and were thinking aboutmarriage.
So after Jim Smith was unable toreach his daughter by phone or
at her apartment, he drove overto Scott's home, a duplex within
walking distance to Diana's.
When Jim arrived he noticedimmediately that the lights were
on, but when he knocked therewas no answer.
(05:51):
He spent the next couple daysreaching out to friends and
co-workers, as well as returningto both apartments.
He talked to Diana Saturday andspent Sunday looking for her.
On Monday Jim went back to theapartment with no answers.
Then he goes to the theaterdepartment at Hamline University
(06:12):
to look for Diana, but thestaff says she hasn't been there
for days.
On Tuesday Jim went back toDiana's in the morning and saw a
police officer writing a ticketon what he was now sure was
Scott's gold 1972 ChevroletImpala.
He let the police know whosecar it was and that he was
(06:33):
missing.
He then asked Diana's landlordto unlock her apartment.
When he went inside there wasnothing out of place.
He then went to Scott's, wherehe knocked over and over again,
still with no answer.
He spoke to Scott's neighborsbut got no useful information.
That's when he called policeand filed a missing persons
(06:53):
report for Diana, but rememberedthat the officer at the time
did not seem to be too worriedabout it because they were both
adults.
On Wednesday Jim went to Diana'sand Hamline's theater and then
to the police department.
The police told Jim to meetthem at Scott's.
(07:15):
They were able to get into theduplex by prying a basement
window open.
Jim stayed on the first floorwhile the police went to the
second where Scott's apartmentwas located.
Thinking there might have beena gas leak.
Jim shouted up to the policehow are the parakeets?
Because Scott had had two petparakeets tweedledy and tweedled
(07:36):
them After entering theapartment.
The police answered fine, butPolice had found the bodies of
Diana Smith and Scott Joneslying on the floor of the
apartment.
Jim remembered that the policetried to be gentle when they
(07:57):
told him what they'd found.
First reports said that Scottwas found in the living room and
Diana was found in the bedroom,both fully closed.
Except for shoes that wereplaced by the couch, there were
no signs of a struggle and thebedsheets, blanket and
pillowcases were missing.
Diana's mother, jean, had beenin California visiting relatives
(08:20):
and publishers.
She flew in the day after herdaughter's body had been
discovered.
Jean said we're just left witha lot of questions.
She had a lot behind her and anawful lot of knowledge, and
it's all gone.
The police also arranged forJim Smith to go under hypnosis
to remember more of the lastconversation he had with Diana.
(08:40):
A spokesperson for the RamseyCounty Medical Examiner told
press that the couple could havebeen dead for up to four days,
meaning the last person to talkto Diana would have been her
father.
The police had also foundDiana's silver 1980s Honda
Accord but didn't reveal thelocation initially.
(09:03):
But we find out that had beenfound at a holiday in five miles
away and there were just nosign of the keys and the
personal belongings given to theparents.
There was a note from Scott toDiana that read it looks like we
both have exciting careersahead of us.
Congrats to you and good luckin the future.
(09:25):
For exclamation points, allcaps love Scott.
Houses for both Diana and Scottwere held the following week.
Now, in the following months,police and medical examiners
made few strides in determiningwhat happened to Diana and Scott
.
They knew the couple hadattended a performance by the
(09:47):
Minnesota Dance Theater at theCollege of St Catherine.
On the same night Diana calledher father, but there was no
signs of forced entry orstruggle, no blood, no drugs or
alcohol in either of theirsystems and no wounds.
Assistant medical examinerMichael McGee, who I will be
calling Emmy McGee, saidsometimes I wake up in the
(10:11):
middle of the night and thinkabout what might have happened
in that apartment.
In a Minneapolis Star article,peter Ackerburt said they were
just a couple named Smith andJones.
In May Emmy McGee revealed thatthey were pretty sure the cause
of death was actuallychloroform poisoning and this
(10:31):
case is known as the chloroformmurders.
But I didn't want to call itthat to spoil the tale and also
I don't like it when it's likesome splashy name and we don't
actually say the victims names.
Anyways, the urine samples fromboth Diana and Scott had to be
(10:51):
sent to the Minnesota Bureau ofCriminal Apprehension, or MBOCA,
and it took two months for theresults to come back.
Chloroform is often seen inworks of fiction as a quick way
to knock people out via a dousedrag, but in an article on
AETVcom, forensic biologistNathan Lentz said it actually
(11:15):
requires careful dosing toachieve a simple depression of
the central nervous systemwithout affecting the autonomic
functions like breathing.
He also said that mostchloroform-related deaths are
the result of respiratoryfailure or fatal cardiac
(11:35):
arrhythmia.
By this time the public hasseen multiple high-profile cases
.
Jennifer Clapper, samina andMom and Kaylee Anthony were a
few cases mentioned in that sameA&E article which will be
linked in the show notes.
But back in 1981, there hadonly been six chloroform-related
(11:57):
deaths in the five years priorto the murders of Diana Smith
and Scott Jones.
There had been talk that itcould have been some sort of
suicide pact, but the finding ofchloroform shut that theory
down because of the amount thatwould be needed and the speed in
which it would take effect.
There were no other traces ofchloroform in the apartment,
(12:18):
which means whoever administeredit also removed it from the
apartment, which obviouslycouldn't have been Diana or
Scott.
Also, in May police startedlooking for a woman who may have
had drinks with Diana.
The same Saturday she lastspoke to her father.
Police received a $12 canceledcheck that had been endorsed by
(12:39):
Diana from the restaurantGuadalajeris, which is a bar and
grill that isn't afraid ofwordplay.
A waitress came forward andsaid she remembered serving
Diana and another woman between10 pm and 1 am.
The waitress was thenhypnotized to get a description
(12:59):
of the woman who she had seenwith Diana brown hair, with
bangs, wearing a large diamondring, a gap in her front teeth,
and looked around 30 years old.
They're just hypnotizingeverybody, because why not?
It was also noted that thecouple's clothing had been
rearranged.
There was an electric clockcord that had been found in
(13:21):
Diana's hand and it had stoppedthe clock at 10.12.
To have fallen the way he wasfound, police Chief Bill
McCutcheon said the scene wasthere to give one impression and
when we reconstructed the scenewe reached the conclusion it
was staged, someone was tryingto mislead and whether there was
(13:46):
a lack of evidence or somethingelse, a movement in this
mysterious case stopped beingreported on.
My theory that has no backingis that another murder in
Minnesota was being focused on,that of 18-year-old Carly Jo
Nyland.
This also overlapped with theWeepy Voice killer murders, also
(14:09):
in Minnesota.
But whatever the reason, dianaSmith and Scott Jones are not
mentioned again until theone-year anniversary of their
murders.
At that time, police released ahefty amount of the information
they had gathered to the press.
Some of the things that arelearned is that Scott was found
face down.
Burns were actually foundaround the victim's mouths and
(14:32):
nose, contributing to the theorythat a chloroform rag was held
over their airways and drugs hadbeen found.
But, like the rest of the scene, the drugs seemed staged as
well.
On the coffee table was a smallscale, empty plastic bags, a
water pipe and bits of marijuana.
More marijuana had been foundon the bookshelf, but it was
(14:55):
obvious that the books had beenrearranged before the drugs were
placed there.
The marijuana of it all is justconfusing to me.
Marijuana does not make methink that this couple had a
suicide pact or accidentaloverdoses.
It doesn't lead me to anyconclusions, really, and the
police felt the same way,especially after talking to
friends of Diana and Scott.
(15:16):
Scott's friends mentioned thatScott rarely partook in any
substances, including alcohol.
The occasional beer or glass ofwine was the most friends could
say they saw him drinking A manDiana used to date did mention
that she had quote fooled aroundwith cocaine, but further
investigation found nomeaningful involvement in drugs.
(15:38):
The few articles that came outalso went into how Diana had
been dating around and bothfamilies confirmed that Scott
knew this and that it was not aproblem.
They just had that kind ofrelationship.
They also gave severalpsychological stress evaluations
.
There was actually a machinecalled the Psychological Stress
(16:00):
Evaluator which recorded andmeasured micro-trimmers in a
person's voice.
Its validity actually ends upin the same pile as the
polygraph, but in 81 they usedit on a bunch of people.
The crazy thing is thatsometimes police would say this
person showed stress, but takingthe test can be stressful.
(16:20):
And then when another personshows stress they're like oh, do
you fail the test?
That's suspicious.
And they make it a footnotewhen their main suspect actually
passes the stress test.
So shortly after Diana's andScott's bodies were found,
(16:42):
diana's parents actually turnedover the name of a dental
student Diana had dated.
The police were particularlyinterested in this man because
he would have access tochloroform as it was used as an
anesthetic back then.
They had also looked into anex-girlfriend of Scott's that he
had dated for two years beforebreaking up.
(17:04):
Shortly before dating Diana andpolice also spoke to a theater
associate that matched thedescription of the gap tooth
woman seen with Diana on thenight of March 7th.
She said she didn't like Dianabut that she hadn't gone out
with her.
That woman exhibited stress onthe stress test, but the
waitress couldn't ID her.
So police were like mint, notyou.
(17:26):
And while police looked intothese other people, they were
most suspicious of the dentalstudent Diana had dated.
He had actually spoken to Dianaon March 7th, which was the day
last day anyone saw her alive,and he invited her to hang out
with him and some friends, butshe declined.
Then, when police initiallyspoke to him after the murders,
(17:50):
he said that he had no ideawhere Scott lived.
But then he ended up callingthe police back to say, oh, he'd
actually been there andmight've touched something so
they might find his fingerprints.
His story was that he and Dianahad been driving around and
Diana asked if he wanted to meetScott.
They stopped by Scott'sapartment.
(18:10):
He wasn't there, but they hadbeen inside for a short period
of time Creally, sus.
But this guy also passed thestress test and his fingerprints
weren't found in Scott'sapartment.
On top of all of that, a littleafter the year anniversary of
Diana's and Scott's murders, thesame dental student was
arrested, charged and sent toprison for the kidnapping and
(18:34):
rape of another ex-girlfriend.
That was, according to a CBSNews report by Caroline Lowe in
2006.
At the end of the article, itmentioned that evidence from the
apartment was being sent fornew DNA analysis and that
results should be back in a week.
Except the next time Diana andScott are mentioned are in 2011,
(18:56):
and even then they just appearon a list of Minnesota cold
cases that need more funds toinvestigate and process.
I also found an entry onMichelle McNamara's site True
Crime Diaries using the WaybackMachine.
It was in a section called Intheir Words, where Michelle
would post emails sent to herabout cases with a blurb about
(19:20):
the case.
A man named Chris Coben wroteto her about knowing Diana Smith
Quote though there were noromantic sparks, I thought she
was pretty and interesting.
During the course of theevening, I remember she told me
she was having trouble withsomeone a stalker type, and I
remember she mentioned somethingmedical, perhaps a teacher or
(19:42):
fellow student.
Chris went on to say that hetold police, who told him that
lined up with a suspect, butalso they didn't seem that
interested in the information.
He then said that he had kepttabs on the case and remembered
reading strange stuff about thesuspect and the suspect's
brother and quote, unquote, hissubsequent conduct and they're
(20:05):
falling out.
That's it.
That's everything on this casewhich still remains cold.
Diana Smith's friends describedher as intelligent, well liked
and very friendly.
She had recently been selectedto direct a spring production
for Hamline University.
She chose the ballad of littlered writing hood and had been
(20:30):
sketching up set designs for it.
She would have been 66 yearsold.
Scott Jones was described asquiet and friendly, the kind of
guy you couldn't imagine havingenemies Quote.
He was a warm and outgoingperson.
Everyone was automaticallydrawn to Scott.
(20:51):
He would have been 72 years old.
["the End of the World"].
Thank you for listening toMurder is Bad.
If you're interested in seeingphotos related to these cases,
you can go to the Instagram atMurder is Bad podcast and if you
(21:13):
like listening, make sure yousubscribe and rate and review,
please on Apple Podcasts orwherever you get your podcasts.
I really appreciate it.
Take care of each other.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Bye ["The End of the World"].
["the End of the World"].
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.