Something is Happening on Rainey Street Part 2

Picking up where we left off... Bodies are being pulled from Lady Bird Lake in Austin, TX with mysterious frequency.  Is this the work of a serial killer?   Does this add credence to the Smiley Face Killer theory?   What is happening on Rainey Street?  Austin realtor Jessica Yang  joins us to share a local's perspective and answer Chris's questions about the area. 

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
People just want to know whatit's like to be me. How does it
feel to see a dead body? Tell afamily their loved one has been
murdered, talk to a rape victim,catch a killer and get them to
confess. Hold on tight myfriends. Get ready for the
journey and welcome to murderwith mannina. Hello everyone and

(00:25):
welcome to another edition ofmurder with mannina. We are part
two of ladybird Lake murdersdrownings, death investigations,
I don't know. If you listen topart one, we went through
several bought several caseswhere bodies were recovered from
Lady Bird Lake and it seems tobe pretty suspicious. Some of

(00:48):
the autopsy reports don't reallygive a a cause and manner of
death. And it's just it's quitecoincidental and it's a little
bit scary what goes on in thislake. But we'll start with I
left off in 2014, where at leastfour bodies were discovered in
the lake, and then in 2012, onJanuary 14 of 2012, and

(01:09):
unidentified man was found deadin the lake in 2008. On Monday
of April 15 2008, a passerby ona hike and bike trail on Lady
Bird Lake spotted a bodyfloating near the shore. It was
an Austin school teacher andpeace activist. Ride Hammad hope

(01:30):
I said that right. Hemanth eyesare covered in duct tape in his
legs and hands were also bound.
Austin PD ruled it a suicidebecause the Biden's and tape
could have been self applied.
There was evidence on securityfootage and in a lot where his
car was parked and statementsfrom persons who knew him said
that he had been experiencingsuicidal thoughts. Ahmad family

(01:50):
believes he was the victim of apolitical killing because he was
an outspoken advocate for therights of the Palestinian
people, the founder of thePalestinians children's welfare
fund, and he objected stronglyto Israel and the US policy in
the Middle East. It fell autopsywas performed, it was concluded
that there was no evidence oftraumatic injury. It's crazy. I
don't know about the duct tapeand all of that. But you never

(02:14):
know.
You know, it just seemsunrelated. And when you had the
nut when you stated the numberof bodies in the last eight
years, that goes back to 2015.
These are 2012 to 2014 2012.
There were also bodies pulledbut they were under the identity
was never released cause ofdeath, none of the details. I

(02:35):
have no idea if they're related,not related. And then in 2008
This appears on the in socialmedia, this list is gone kind of
viral everywhere you see a listof bodies pulled with their list
goes all the way back to 2008.
seems completely separate. Notat all related. And also the
other one, which you're going toyou're describing a moment also
seems unrelated to the otherdeaths on the lake that the

(02:58):
bodies pulled from the lakeHowever, it's also another
incredibly mysterious deathwhich so I thought it was worth
mentioning.

(03:19):
Yeah, okay, so this one isSunday, June 1 2008. Two
fishermen found a badlydecomposed and recognizable body
on the lake police identifiedher as a 26 year old Zima hibel.
I hope that's right cousin ofher said that. The devil was

(03:40):
headed to a grocery store on 930Thursday evening and never
returned. She was reportedmissing by her family just after
8am The following morning. Zimathat was her nickname?
Yeah, a preschool teacher atPrimrose school in Lakeway,
Texas was engaged in the mother,a two year old daughter, please
said there was no indications offoul play. But her family

(04:01):
believes there's more to thestory behind her disappearance
because for one thing, thegrocery store she was headed to
isn't even near the lake. Soeven though like you made a good
point, calling that these don'tseem to be related. They're
related into the effect thatthey're near the lake or in the
lake. Right. Right. That's onething that is common between
that's the one absolutely tie soAustin Police Department

(04:24):
response to online speculationreleased a statement saying that
works with the Travis CountyMedical Examiner's Office, which
conducts parallel investigationas in performs the autopsies.
The result of these autopsieshave not revealed any trauma to
the bodies nor indication offoul play. It's unclear whether
those autopsies also includedtoxicology panels. Austin PD has

(04:46):
gone on to say one common themeof the drownings in Austin is a
combination of alcohol and easyaccess to ladybird Lake.
Basically, they theorized thatat least some of the men went to
the lake to pee and fell in. Itwas stated that in the cities no
for their nightlife, theirbodies of water, it is not
uncommon for people to drownaccidentally after an evening
out on the town. According tothe CDC, men are especially

(05:08):
vulnerable due to risk takingbehaviors and alcohol use at
this time. At this point, ADPdoes not believe the cases are
connected.
ADP, meaning Austin PoliceDepartment we have joining us a
very special guest on thisepisode, Jessica Yang is the
friend who brought this story tomy attention. And also the cases

(05:29):
in Chicago, which we will talkabout on the next episode. And
they mirror what's going on inAustin pretty closely. So
Jessica is an Austin local, shelives there, she moved there
from San Diego. And Chris, youhad some questions about just
the area in general about youknow, that kind of thing. And

(05:50):
then we can also talk aboutwhat's showing up on social
media with regards to this case.
And then your final sort ofoverview and take on the
situation. And Jessica has herown podcast called Storytellers.
And I would love for you todescribe what your podcast is
about Jessica, and then we'llget back into the questions.

(06:13):
Thank you for having me. I loveto interview and I meet a really
amazing people here in Austin,what I do is just bring these
people on and just talk aboutwhat they do. There's just so
many people that need aplatform. And it's always really
nice to talk to theseindividuals.
Great. Thanks. Yeah, that'sfantastic. So I'm just gonna

(06:35):
apologize before it is such ashitty day out here in
Indianapolis. My dogs are stuckinside. So they're playing. So
if that happens, and you hearwhat's happening in my house,
it's a crazy house today. So ifyou hear that that's a you know,
hopefully we have a lot I'm surewe have a lot of animal lovers
and dog lovers that listen tothe podcast. So I think it's
interesting that you're that youlove to have people tell their

(06:58):
stories, right. So that kind ofcoincides with what I did
professionally for a long timeas a homicide detective is allow
people to tell their stories.
And you know, always startingout my interviews, especially
with homicide suspects. And thestretch of you know, you didn't
wake up today thinking you weregoing to murder anybody, how did
we get here? And then thebackstory and the story behind
that backstory, and all of thatkind of led to the confessions

(07:19):
or questions that I neededanswer for my investigation. So
that's very, very cool. So letme start with this. So we went
through all of these things.
And, you know, in my 52 years onthis earth, yeah, I believe that
there aren't a lot ofcoincidences. I feel like there
are some, but I'm not a bigbeliever. I'm probably a little

(07:41):
bit jaded due to my backgroundin law enforcement. But tell me
a lot. Well, first of all, areyou from Austin?
No, I've been here now about twoyears. Okay. So yeah, I visited
Austin once and I saw thatthere's so much promise being
from San Diego, just it justfelt right. Just to take the
chance.
Oh, good for you. So let me askyou this. Have you been to

(08:04):
ladybird lake?
I have I actually lived in oneof the high rises. I just moved
out a couple months ago. ButI've also walked around Lady
Bird Lake at night by myself.
Okay, that don't do that. Don'tdo that. Let's start here. real
basic stuff I believe in don'tdoing I don't even know if I

(08:25):
would go. I'd take my gun. But Idon't know that I would go over
there. I don't think good thingshappen there. Okay. So that's
good. Because I like, you know,with researching these cases and
trying to get a mental pictureof what it looks like. It's
obviously not far from an areawhere there's bars and a lot of
nighttime activity. What wouldyou say? You know, as far as

(08:46):
like, and I think we mentioned alittle bit it's not far from
downtown, like, how long of awalk would it be to? From the
bars to the lake?
A few minutes. Yeah, have awalk. Okay, because that whole
street called Rainey street. Butback in the day, you know, I
wasn't around by just hearing itfrom logos to they used to be
residential bungalows, which nowhave been turned into high rises

(09:10):
where they also have bars andfood food trucks. So it gets
really, really packed on theweekend. Okay.
Okay. So and you went andvisited. So can you imagine
based on what you're seeing thatpeople are getting drunk at the
bars walk into the lake andfalling in? Could you see it
happening when youwere definitely not my residents
before for it was probably onlylike a 1015 minute walk to the

(09:33):
lake. But I would walk overthere and the time that I did
take my run, I realized like,wow, this is really dark.
There's no lights.
So we kept losing Jessica,because just the connection
wasn't strong enough. Soinstead, Jessica called in and
she'll be continuing theinterview on the phone. So

(09:53):
Jessica, pick up where we leftoff. Chris had asked you about
the lake and you said that youused to run around The Lake and
you lived close to it.
Yeah. Awesome. still fairly asmall city. So during the day is
when it's would be packed orevening. But when it gets
really, really dark, especiallyeven it doesn't matter if it's
on the weekends. I just reallydon't see anybody wanting to go

(10:19):
straight to the lake. I thinkthat I bought this, this is
probably falsified, and itreally just doesn't make sense.
Just to get lost wander outthere.
So with you living there nowand, you know, we talked about
in the first episode, the fourbodies have been found in Lady
Bird Lake, what's the media?
What's the media speculating?

(10:42):
Are they still talking about itevery day? Or where are they at
with it now?
I'm Austin police actually sentout a statement on Twitter. I
think maybe it was last week ortwo weeks ago by now saying that
they definitely think it's foulplay. And they should they're
just telling citizens to be morecareful. But because of I think

(11:02):
in that Facebook group, there'sa Facebook group called Serial
Killer lady life because nopeople that live in the area are
taking it upon themselves makingthe basically the problem go
viral. So now with reaching somany 1000 members, there
definitely has now been morepolice activity and people are

(11:25):
just, you know, being way morecautious. I don't know if you
guys know. But last week, theyactually found another body near
the dam.
Yes, we know the lat theLonghorn was at Longhorn fan.
Yeah. Yep. Yes. Right Longhorndam. So, you know, Jessica, I
wanted to ask you have you doyou know of anyone who has been

(11:48):
refeed? Have you? Do you know ofany of those stories? Because I
did see a few of the accounts onsocial media.
One girl, one of my friends shementioned to me, it happened to
her recently. That's allhappened to her a couple of
years ago. Her suspicion is itmight have been a bartender
because she was with herboyfriend at the time. So it

(12:11):
wouldn't make sense. I mean,maybe her boyfriend but yeah.
There are people speculating itcould be bartenders. Yeah. But
I guess the question too, is ifit's the bartenders, it, it
could be absolutely. But how arethey getting down to the lake?
Like, that's, to me? That's thethe big question.

(12:33):
Right there. So there is alsowhat I mentioned about now,
bungalows being turned intoresidential high rises, there's
actually a few residences thatare at the end of the trail, and
then connect them to Lady BirdLake. One is called the Mulago.
And that one has a backdoorentrance. So there's all these

(12:54):
hypothesis out that like,someone could definitely be
putting bodies nearby or even atthe Holiday Inn. There has been
it's been spooky, discoveringthere. What are those at the
holiday? And what are those?
What are those discoveries?
From what I read, it's thatbecause of how short of a

(13:17):
distance it is to there, andfrom there, and nobody really
bats an eye, it's an old, it'san old building, so it's not a
thing and luxurious. People arejust making claims. And then
there has been bodies I think,dumped near the Holiday Inn
because the connector, the lakeconnects over there to

(13:38):
wow, okay, that's just, I mean,oh, my gosh, this is so crazy. I
still it just begs the questionof how they're getting to the to
the lake, I get the holiday andthing. It's got to be somebody
local. I mean, what is the mediaor your speculation or what
thinking it's a serial killer atthis point? Have the police use

(13:59):
the word serial killer?
No, because I you know, thepolice doesn't want to scare
people. They also don't want toscare tourism. But citizens that
live here or you know, just knowabout this problem. They're very
scared or interested.
Right, it's probably acombination of both so well, I

(14:21):
love that the social media haskind of blown up a little bit.
What what are the familiestalking about these people? What
are their take?
Some family are speaking out.
The people that have you know,been victims in the past. I
think some of them just arespeaking about our story
describing what happened. Ithink the people the families
that haven't their loved onesdidn't make it that no one is

(14:45):
not expecting foul play.
Yeah, so I think that Okay, sothe victim's families believe
there's more behind their desk,despite early investigations

(15:06):
finding right no foul play,along with social media
contributors. They post that inrecent years, at least five men
have been found in like undersimilar circumstances. They went
out with friends, they gotseparated friends left and
didn't contact family membersuntil the next afternoon or
night. And if someone had atype, all of these men would fit

(15:26):
it, right. Yeah, they theorizedthat these victims are being
drunk drugged, or something thatis not showing up in a standard
autopsy testing, which could bevery true. Reddit and Facebook,
they're sharing their stories ofbeing refeed and claimed that
they've been reading and hearingabout it happening for years on
Rainey street. A lot ofquestions being asked like, why

(15:48):
would there be multiple storiesof men blacking out after only
one or two drinks? They've alsosaid they don't understand how
going to the water to pee orjust walking into the water in
general and falling has resultedin death this many times. The
water is shallow. Is the watershallow? Yes.
People actually go theresometimes to go ahead and

(16:08):
paddleboard. And it's not deepat all. There are actually some
other people on the Facebookpost the social media post that
even suspect it's the smileyface killers.
Yeah, right. I read about that,too. The Smiley Face killers
could be a potential same thing.
And she's in Chicago.

(16:29):
Yeah, no. Well, so I think it'sinteresting that the water is
shallow, right? Like, I mean,you can drown in shallow water,
it doesn't happen with adultsvery often. But if they have
something in their system that'saffecting their behavior, but
it's still I still don't havethe answer to the question of
how are they good? Why are theygoing down to the lake? That
would be a good thing to try toreally focus on is how is

(16:53):
whoever if there's somebodydoing this, if there is a serial
killer? How is he getting theseguys to go to the lake? That's I
think we answer that question,we'll find out a whole bunch of
other information. So I think,trying to figure out like, I
don't think anybody that's goingout on Rainey Street, good time

(17:13):
with friends or thinking thatthey're going to go to the lake
after they party. How are theygetting to the lake? Why are
they going to the lake?
Right? I personally think it'smore than one person, there may
be a female involved, becausethese a lot of these victims are
men. There's a specific style tomaybe like the same colored

(17:38):
hair, the age, there's like anage range that these victims are
in. And they're just gettingroof feed, maybe the bartender
and you know, once it gets toodrunk, a lot of these people
don't know what they're gettingthemselves into, you know, like,
if you're, if you're in your20s, and you kind of get blacked

(17:59):
out drunk, someone offers youhelp maybe like a pretty woman,
you're more than willing tofollow through.
Yeah, and that has ties to thestory, because you don't have
very many female serial killers.
So if this is a serial killer,you know, I mean, I mean, I, I
buy that theory to a degree,especially in it, even if
they're not blacked out if theythink maybe they're going down

(18:21):
to the lake to have sex, orsomething to that degree that
would get them down there aswell.
There's no trauma. Okay, firstof all, wouldn't the roofie drug
show up on a toxicology report?
Or do you think it's possiblethat they haven't run that test?
Well, I think it's possible. Idon't know why they're not

(18:43):
running it now. Or if they arerunning it now they should be
back in the day. No, I don'tknow, on cases that are
happening here and there thatthey would they will run out,
but they absolutely need to runit now.
And then the other question Ihave for you is because there's
no trauma or sexual I guess theywould be able to tell if there

(19:05):
was sexual molestation involvedin any way or that because
there's nothing like that notrauma at all. What would the
possible motive be? Would itjust be control of killing
somebody why they just pushsomebody in the lake and that's
satisfying enough? What is it?
Well, the satisfaction ishappening now. We're talking

(19:25):
about it on a podcast, or we'retalking about it on social
media.
Oh, I see. That does make sensethen.
But the power of like, yeah,absolutely. I mean, it could be
a scorned ass women that's beentreated like shit with men look
like these victims. And that'show she's getting who knows. I

(19:47):
mean, that's when you figure outthe motive. You can always
figure out the case. Now we'rejust theorizing a little bit but
it's just interesting that thewater is so shallow and but They
are, you know, like you said,kind of fitting the same
profile. You got to look outsideof the box. And hopefully they I

(20:07):
don't think I'm trying to thinkwhen I did the autopsies,
alcohol drugs, but I don't knowthat Rufus was there. I didn't
find that out. It's a goodquestion.
It seems like especially in thiscase, that would be standard
that they would test for that.
And by the way, for anylisteners who haven't heard of
the smiley face killers,basically it was in 1997. To
retired New York City detectivesKevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte

(20:31):
and criminal justice professorand gay expertly Gilberton,
advanced a smiley face murdertheory. They believed that a
string of young men found deadand bodies of water across
several Midwestern states fromthe late 1990s to 2000 10s was
the work of a serial killer or agroup of serial killers. After
2008, they evolved their theoryto believe that there is

(20:57):
actually it's a multi state gangof killers. And they operate
much like a gang were they thatthey're well structured and
organized with cells in majorcities around the states. And
they say that each city couldhave between eight and 20
members, and the motive of thegroup remains unknown, but

(21:19):
they're gang oriented, meaningthe group chooses a narrow
specific group to target ofvictims to target and these
detectives have investigated thedeaths of at least 45 college
aged men who were found dead andwas in the water in 11. States
in the early 2000s. And theyhave currently 681 cases in

(21:40):
their database that they believewill be connected the FBI, they
don't believe that this could behappening. That nonprofit center
for homicide research inMinneapolis also released a
report debunking the smiley facekiller theory, due to a lack of
physical evidence of a serialkiller, no signs of torture or
blunt force trauma on the bodiesthat could point to the deaths

(22:03):
being homicides. So anyway,there you have it for any of the
listeners that aren't familiarwith the smiley face killer
theory, however, now with all ofthese bodies, you know, being
pulled from Lady Bird Lake fromLake Michigan and the Chicago
River and, and you know, I'msure there's others in other
parts of the country. Now, thesmiley face killer theory is

(22:24):
obviously showing up a lotagain, on social media. Well, I
caution, you know, you have tojust come in from law
enforcement, sometimes I'lldebunk stuff, because I want the
attention to get off of it.
Right. So I don't know that Ibuy it completely, that they're
debunking it completely. Withthis much media attention and

(22:44):
this much going on. It doescause some problems when you
have all of these theories andyou're trying to run down
everything. But I don't alwaysbelieve one Forsman says that
they debunk it, because theyjust, they're just, I don't buy
that that could be it could bevery much late, they just don't
want everybody in there,brother. Because if they say,
hey, it's possibility, it's thesmiley face killers, then that

(23:05):
just brings a whole source ofother people, you know, calling
in tips and calling in theories,and it makes it difficult. So
they could have very welldebunked it, but
and not to mention the fearelement. Well, like Jessica
mentioned that how that wouldaffect tourism in those cities.
I mean, we talked about this alot with the political aspect of

(23:27):
it and cases getting prosecutedand, and all those types of
things. But I just alwayscaution that just because the
FBI, I mean, everyone's like,Oh, if the FBI debunked it, it's
not an unlined as bullshit. Youknow, sway the attention
somewhere else?
Yeah, the reports on theirbodies, I wish some of them has

(23:48):
been released. Like you said, Noblunt force or no trauma, but a
lot of these bodies also don'thave water inside their lungs.
So I personally think just fromviewing it and viewing this as a
third outsider perspective, thatif you look at the date, I don't
think these bodies are dumpedright away. And then also,

(24:09):
they're probably potentiallykilled even before being dumped.
That's a definite possibility.
You know, and evidently back allthe way to when we were talking,
what 2008 You can dump bodiesthere and kind of get away with
it. Other than the one arrestthat was made pretty quickly,
you know, these are these arenot being treated as criminal
cases because of what theautopsy is saying. And like I

(24:32):
mentioned in part one, it's whenyou have an autopsy report that
says no blunt trauma, it's notinvestigated as a crime. You
know, that's why we do autopsieson suicide. So is that a
homicide or suicide? You know,we're trying to answer those
questions, but like everythingelse, you know, there's ways
around it and there's apossibility that this is a

(24:53):
serial killer and they'regetting away with it for this
long because they are gettingmedical examiners just say
There's no blunt trauma, youknow, and they're not testing
for the roofie. And they're notgoing forward. And I can't
believe I would imagine thatthey are now they would have to.
There's just too many bodies.
There's just there's obviouslysomething going on, you know?

(25:13):
Right. Right. There's the policeand the law enforcement. They're
traveling, they're looking atthat area pretty closely. Now.
What's weird to me is that me asbeing someone that's ran on the
lake at night, I won't ever dothat again. But there's no
lights out there. And there's nocameras, as it seems. Right? So

(25:34):
it seems like it's hard to evencatch someone because they're
not putting in the necessaryprecautions.
Well, it's perfect dumpingground, right, like, and so I'll
start by saying, don't do thatever again, don't run out there
alone at night, but, you know,social media and just you being
a local, I mean, if you were toa dump a body, that'd be a great

(25:54):
place to do it. Right. Andpeople know that. So if we are
dealing with a serial killer,they're watching all of the
media attention. They're,they're paying attention to
what's going on. And you know,are they could you put
undercover officers out there?
Absolutely. Stick them up infrickin trees, stick them
somewhere. I mean, if theyreally wanted to catch this,
there's enough bodies that aregoing in there that could

(26:15):
probably get some information.
But of course, that's manpower.
And logistically, how are yougoing to do that? But
possibility? I've climbed treesbefore to look at people's
houses and to get information,you know, you got to do you got
to do, how bad? Do you want toget these cases solved. And I
think if the media is in whatthe police is, it's a double
edged, you do not want to scareeverybody, and you don't want

(26:38):
tourism to go down. I get that.
But if there's not enough mediaattention, then you don't have
enough people looking in reallytrying to stop this right.
There's not a lot of pressure. Idon't know what the families are
doing on this. I mean, they'reit they're being interviewed and
saying they don't believe it,but what kind of pressure are
they putting on investigators,you know, to work undercover. So

(27:02):
we have undercover units. Right.
Right.
I think it's interesting thatthe that the Austin Police
Department is now saying they dobelieve there could be foul play
involved. So that turned acorner.
As we are speaking right nowI'm, I got a notification for
the Lady Bird Lake as yourkiller. There has been another

(27:25):
blocked off cautioned withpolice, often as we're speaking
right now.
So they're close. I mean,they're getting on it. And it's
it seems to be that it'shappening more and more. So
whoever's responsibility orwho's responsible for doing
this, it appears at this pointthat it needs to be doing it
more and more. They're kind ofcoming quickly. Absolutely,

(27:48):
absolutely love the attention.
So they'll figure it out. Ithink, you know, it'll break
eventually. But it's, it's aninteresting case. But once the
motive is is found out, and howare we luring our victims to the
lake. And it's really, I've saidthis before, it's very difficult
to kill somebody else, and thentransport the body. So risky.

(28:11):
But with you say in the lay ofthe land, you've got somebody in
a car, can you drive up prettyclose to the water?
I would say there, youdefinitely can. Just maybe like
you can get 4050 feet away. Andit's right there.

(28:32):
So it could be simple. As youknow, a woman walking up to a
guy that's been refeed arefeeling sick and offering and
help and saying I'll take youhome and you know, and they just
take him to the lake and dumpthem
tonight, because maybe eithereveryone else is too drunk, or
they just they don't see that asabnormal.

(28:53):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, thatbehavior isn't something that
standing out at the bars, madeit there. It's like the victims
are walking to their own deathwillingly. They may not be all
together, and they may be roofieto sick or, but they're not
being forced. And that's whatmakes this a little bit more
difficult. Because it's like,whoa, nobody's saying, oh my

(29:14):
god, I just saw this guy gettingforced into a car. They're not
even talking about them havingan argument in a bar, like none
of that stuff. So they're almostwalking to their desk. So at
this point, you know, youwonder, are they getting into a
vehicle? Is it an Uber driver?
And I like that where they aredoing it pretty willingly and
then it's pretty easy to dumpthem. It's that dark to pull up
the close to the water, get themout of the car and leave them in

(29:35):
the water. Absolutely.
Yeah, it's a interestinglocation.
Yeah. Yeah, I would putsurveillance I want to just go
climb a tree and wait for thenext body start paying attention
to what cars are pulling inthere.
Right? It does seem like it'sit's happening with highly

(29:55):
increased frequency. I'm onTwitter right now and I'm
looking at you know, bunch ofpeople who've posted about it
and it's crazy. I mean, it'sjust like what's happening in
Austin, Texas, Austin policedeny rumors of a serial killer.
But this week, a fourth body ispulled from ladybird Lake, eight
bodies have been found in just10 months is rumors of a serial

(30:16):
killer swirl on social media.
And then you look at pictures ofthe victims. And they're all the
same age. They all have a lot ofthings in common. It's a type,
but not all, you know, noteverybody, then there's others
that don't coincide with thegroup of that victims that have
similarities.

(30:37):
Well, it's probably becomingmore frequent, because it's
getting more attention. Right?
Like, he's, it's you crave itand you're like, Wow, I'm
getting this much. I'm going todo another one. Because now
people are going, Oh, now it'seight in the last, you know,
however long oh my god, now it'snine. I mean, that's all stuff
that people would thatpsychology, those sicknesses.
Whatever the case may be, theylive on that shit, they have to

(31:01):
have attention. And he actuallyprobably wants to get caught to
a degreeto be famous. Yeah, he or they
right? Because the smiley facekiller theory would play into
how this is also happening inChicago. And in short, which
we'll talk about on the nextepisode. And Jessica, shout out
to Jessica and thank you foralso bringing that to my

(31:23):
attention.
Yeah, Jessica, you're a wealthof information. Well, and the
thing too, is, is is he workingalone, because you start working
with other people. And it's it'seven riskier, but could just be
one person to get away with itthis long. You know, you have to

(31:44):
keep that shit to yourself. Hestarted talking about if that's
how you get caught. It'll beinteresting to houses. And so I
thank you so much, Jessica. Butmy whole thing, like I'll end it
like, don't go running outthere. Keep your head on a
swivel. People in Austin andunready straight, pay attention
to your surroundings. You know,just be smart about a bit. But

(32:05):
be vigilant, pay attention. Payattention, because you don't
want that to happen to you. Sothank you guys for having me.
This was really great. Hey, andif any of if any of you
listeners want to move toAustin, Jessica, we'll find you
a place to live because she's areal estate agent. That's why
you moved there in the firstplace. Right?

(32:26):
Yeah, exactly. I know a lot ofpeople are coming here, just
because of how much growth thereis. I mean, this whole serial
killer thing. I don't thinkit'll stop people from coming.
It will definitely make peoplebecome more wary of going out in
that area.
Well, and I and I tell you thatwhen you're showing these houses
or apartments, be careful ifyou're by yourself while you're

(32:47):
doing that.
Right. Yeah, that's something tothink about too.
Yeah. world is a scary place. Sothanks again. And what is the
title of your podcast,storytellers, storytellers?
Well, best of luck to you. Andthanks again and keep us
apprised. Thanks, everyone, forlistening, check out part one of
man, the crazy Lake story andagain, review and rate us and

(33:11):
thanks again, send us thestories that interests us and
the stories that captivate youthat haven't been solved, we'll
talk about them and if you'dlike to be on our podcast, we'd
love to have you. Thanks againand we will see you next time on
murder with mannina.

(33:35):
If you have a cold case you'dlike Chris to review submitted
through our website at murderwith mannina.com and follow us
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at murder W mannina. We'll beback next week with a brand new
episode of murder with mannina.