August 22, 2023 • 29 mins
25-year-old Aubrey Dameron was last seen in Grove, Oklahoma on March 9, 2019. She disappeared after leaving her family home to meet up with someone. Chris discusses potential motives and suspects in this fairly recent missing persons case.
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(00:01):
People just want to know whatit's like to be me. How does it
feel to see a dead body? Tell afamily their loved one has been
murdered, talk to a rape victim,catch a killer, and get them to
confess, hold on tight, myfriends, get ready for the
journey. And welcome to murderwith Mannina. Hello, everyone,
(00:22):
and welcome to another editionof murder with mannina. Before
we get started on this case, Igotta tell you, I just
participated and got certifiedin teaching an active shooter
training. So pretty excitedabout that.
That's fast. Yeah, it'sfantastic. Yeah,
I might go over it. Some I mightdo an episode on it, right,
(00:44):
because it's something that wecan absolutely talk about. But
it gets your brain moving. It'sa it's a newer version of RUN,
HIDE fight, which I don't love.
But this version kind of givesyou a little bit more options of
things to think about. Soanyways, maybe I'll do an
episode if people areinterested.
That's a great idea. Yeah, wecould do an episode on it. So
and I like it. That's a greatidea. Yeah, that
(01:07):
could help a lot of people. Ihave a friend that went into a
grocery store late at night, andit was being held up. And the
and they turned the guns on her.
And she had learned somewherealways to run in a zigzag if
someone's shooting at you. Andshe did and they did shoot at
her, but they missed Oh, yeah.
(01:29):
And she survived. Yeah.
Oh, okay. Good. Yeah, that thisexact thing is a real thing. And
that's actually talked about inthis training. So if you're
interested, you know, we'll doit. We'll do an episode on it.
I think that's a great idea forus definitely do it.
All right. Well, today we'regoing to talk about a missing
person. And she's been missingfor nearly Well, let's see 2004
(01:53):
days. And her name was this is areally interesting case, there's
kind of a lot of dynamics, youthink it's something obvious,
and then it kind of twists andturns a little bit. So there's a
lot of different people whocould have different motives. So
let's take it let's take a crackat this and get it out. So her
(02:14):
name was Aubrey Damron. Andshe's been missing since March
19 of 2009. So in August of2018, she moved back to Oklahoma
and she's Native American.
That's, that's, that'simportant. But she's Native
American. So anyway, she movedback to Oklahoma, or I'm sorry,
she moved back from Oklahomaafter she moved to New Mexico
(02:35):
with her boyfriend. And his nameis Jay Pearson. And according to
him, she had decided to to moveback home to seek treatment for
alcohol and drug abuse. Okay, sothere's one indicator of a
motive always, when we talkabout, you know, alcohol and
drug abuse, okay. But she toldher aunt Pam, who she was real
(02:56):
close with, that she was afraidof him. Smith mentioned that
Audrey told her that herboyfriend threatened to kill her
if she were to leave him.
So and those are Oh, yeah. Wow.
First big Well,I mean, he Yeah. So it's
interesting when I did work indomestic violence, you know,
they don't mess around. If theysay they're going to kill you.
And you stay long enough, theyprobably will. Because think
(03:18):
about the arguments that you'vegotten in to with your, you
know, significant other orwhatever. Very rarely, if ever,
do people say I'm going to killyou. So it's, it's not so you
might feel like that in themoment. But as far as actually
like saying those words, it'snot really, really common. And
so when they do say it, you haveto believe them. They may not do
(03:40):
it that day, when they say, butmore, nine times out of 10 if
they are threatening to killyou. They will. It's a real,
they have it in other words theyhave because think about that's
that's just not something thatyou can say easily. So anyways,
okay, so on the morning of March
9 2019, around 3 (03:59):
30am. And that's always suspect right the
time of day, but 330 in themorning, she leaves her mother's
house in Oklahoma, and she'ssupposedly trying to meet
someone. She had messagedseveral people on Facebook
asking for a ride before sheleft, but it's still not known
whether someone picked her up ornot. She was really, really big
(04:22):
on social media. So 330 in themorning, just what we know right
now domestic situations andpossible drug and alcohol abuse.
Right, we're painting thepicture, which is always what I
like to do when we're coveringcold cases. Her phone though,
was last ping that 3 (04:36):
42am And she was close to her home. And
then she's literally not beenheard or seen from since. So
she's paying close to home.
She's also considered to be atrisk and this is another
important thing because shesuffers from epilepsy and
requires anti seizuremedication, along with a other
(04:58):
prescription medications whatshe had left at home that
morning. So wasn't necessarilyplanning to be gone leave. She
wanted to leave but rarely.
Okay, so she and this is anotherthing that supports she was last
seen wearing all black she don'town a black jacket, top skirt,
tights and boots. She was 25years old and is described as
(05:21):
being five to five foot 10 tallon weighing around 150 pounds.
She also has brown hair andbrown eyes and has multiple
tattoos and tattoo on herbackside of her neck, a circular
design tattoo with a word shortyon her left shoulder and tattoos
on both hips. And those arealways obviously really, really
important if they were to find abody tattoos are fantastic. And
(05:44):
help with identification. Okay,so let's just get down to the
nitty gritty, August night, orAugust 18 of 2018. She moves
back to Oklahoma, like I said,she had said that she was scared
of her boyfriend and told heraunt that he had threatened to
kill her. Okay, December of2018, just a few months later,
the communication with herfamily decreases. And that's
(06:07):
another indicator of domesticviolence, right? And we talked a
little bit about that. So shewas really very Social Savvy.
And she always communicated via,you know, Facebook or whatever.
So communication decreases withher family. And that's always a
clue me. And that's like, if youyou know, people that are always
in contact and they stop,something is up. Okay. She
(06:31):
constantly uses social mediaaccounts. She's always in
contact with her family membersand friends, literally every
day. But in December, it startedto stop and her media presence
starts slowing, and it stopsaltogether. All right. So now we
jumped to February, analtercation takes place between
her and her stepfather. I guessit was so bad that the
(06:56):
stepfather filed charges ofassault and battery against her,
but they were dropped just a fewdays later. Not a lot of
specifics of what that is, butwe'll be able to maybe have an
idea towards the end of this. SoFebruary 25, was her last post
on Facebook, she posts for thelast time on her Facebook
account. And what she shares isan image of a chalkboard. That
(07:19):
states you're never tooimportant to be nice to people.
Last thing she put on herFacebook, right into February
now we're into March March 9.
She's last seen leaving herfamily's home before she leaves.
Like I said before she messagesa bunch of people on Facebook
looking for a ride. According toher mother. She's planning on
(07:40):
meeting someone that night, butit's not known whether anyone
picks her up. She her mothertells please that she came into
the living room where her motherand brother were and informs
them that she is going to meet afriend. It happens around 330 In
the morning, and then she leavesher home without her purse or
important medic medication. Sowhat's interesting to me about
(08:02):
that is everybody's up at 330 inthe morning,
I was just gonna say that's themost Yeah, it's
like, Hey, I'm gonna leave andthey're like, Okay, that's a
little, that's a little weird,but whatever. Okay, so.
And you're sure it was 330 inthe morning and not 330 3:30am.
(08:23):
And then of course, I mentionedher Her phone is pinging at 342.
So just about 12 minutes aftershe physically leaves the house.
Her phone is pinged. And theylive in a mobile Park home to I
don't know if I mentioned that.
All right. So a couple dayslater, she's reported missing
now to two days later. Sothat's, that's a little thing
(08:46):
that's a little bit concerning.
And I would love to get in touchwith the family. Just to talk a
little bit about that, becauseshe obviously lives with her mom
and stepdad. And she's verysocial, and, you know, all of
those things and for her not tocome home for two days. You
know, I don't know, with thewhole alleged, you know, trying
(09:06):
to get help for drugs. I mean,she may have a routine of, you
know, being gone for a coupledays, but that's a that's a red
flag for me. Okay, so but theydo report her missing to The
Delaware County Sheriff'sDepartment. Right again, that's
two days later. Strange. SoMarch 12, a woman calls Audrey's
ex boyfriend J, with falseinformation on Audrey's
(09:30):
whereabouts. Like here's anothertwist.
Really the Yeah, the waters keepgetting Meteor
so an unknown woman who claimsto be apres friend calls the
boyfriend and tells him thatshe's being held against her
will and catch him Oklahoma fordrug money. She owes someone
(09:50):
that that kind of sounds likethat could be reliable, right
just based on a little bit ofhistory we know. But she
continues to explain that Aubreywill be real least when the debt
is paid, and if they are notpaid, she will be killed. When
Investigators questioned her,they quickly learned that the
claim is a hoax. And she isarrested and subsequently
charged with extortion.
(10:13):
Okay, that's like strange. It'slike crazy strange. Yes, I
tracked a string. Yeah.
So that was March 12. Now we'rejumping to march 23. And there's
a search conducted near her homebecause there's a bloody sock
that is found. So a search teamwith Oklahoma City metro and
(10:34):
rescue team conducts a search ina heavily wooded area near the
near her home, the search leadsto discover the bloody sock,
approximately half a mile fromour home. The sock is submitted
to the Oklahoma State Bureau ofInvestigations for forensic
testing. And according toArby's, and they did not receive
any conclusive results from thispiece of potential evidence,
(10:55):
which couldn't match her blood.
That's I don't love that, butthat's what's being said. Okay.
Hmm.
So, yeah, hard, hard tounderstand how they couldn't
just know if it was a blood orexactly. So then the family, you
know, they start a Facebookpage. It's created by our family
members to help raise you know,awareness which this seems to be
(11:15):
really, really popular thesethese Facebook pages. So, in
April, Mom claims that Aubreyits former boyfriend told her
that he killed her. That's whatmom says.
What were the detailssurrounding that, according to a
probable cause affidavit obviousand alleges that J The former
boyfriend told Jennifer Andresmother that he had killed her.
(11:38):
There's no evidence linking J toAndres disappearance, so he was
never arrested. They have noevidence linking at all, which
other thanthe aunt said he told the mom
that isn't even direct.
Right. But I mean, you have tolook at him right because
(11:59):
there's Cora obviously youthreatened to kill her. But
evidently there is nothing tolink other than the threat which
could be huge. Suddenly, he andshe went she left she didn't say
I'm meeting J or I met she justsaid I'm meeting some right.
Right and her family at 330 inthe morning. Didn't ask her
who? Well and where are yougoing at 330?
(12:21):
Why and why.
So we jumped to May in an areain Kenwood, Oklahoma. There's a
search done over Memorial Dayweekend and the following
weekend after officials receivea tip, claiming that Aubrey was
buried in the area. During thesearch a shallow grave was found
next to a black leather jacket.
Now remember, in the descriptionearlier, she was wearing a black
(12:42):
jacket. Nothing else was foundduring the search and the jacket
is sent off to the OklahomaState Bureau of Investigation
for forensic testing. Upontesting the results for the
jacket came back as inconclusiveas to whether it belonged to
Audrey. But my question rightthere is show a picture of it to
the family.
(13:03):
Right. Right. Exactly. Okay. Andagain, wouldn't there be some
DNA on there that they couldleave? Absolutely, because
there would be like, she livedat that house. So go and get a
brush. Go get a toothbrush orsomething? It's not that
exactly. There's probably hairon her jacket if it's her
jacket, right.
(13:24):
May 27 The family holds a rallynot only for Aubrey, but also
for a couple other people thatwere missing in the area. So the
family is really big. They'redoing Facebook they're doing
rallies are really reallykeeping this alive.
And who were the other peoplewere they similar profiles?
Yes. Well, yes. And I'll get tothat later. Hold please. Okay,
(13:46):
so November now we jumped fromthat's in May, and then we
jumped to November and a pond inDelaware Canary searched, so
after police receive itpromising lead, they drain this
pond by three feet and skim thepond and search for her or any
of her belongings. According tofamily members. The search is
conducted after dogs alertedthem to the pond. Several items
(14:07):
were found during search cluedin an old fashioned old
flashlight fishing reel in aplastic bag, but nothing was
related to her disappearance. SoI feel like the police are you
know, they're getting tips andthey're getting leads and
they're following through atleast it appears that sounds
like it. Yeah, but familydoesn't feel that way as this
goes on. So they do hold a vigilevery year. They did it in 2020
(14:32):
for the one year. And the vigilis attended by family members,
friends and community members tohonor and remember her. Again.
They're doing a lot now we'rejumping into 2021. So the Aubrey
alert bill or House Bill 7090 isintroduced to the Oklahoma
legislature which calls formissing adult alerts in Oklahoma
(14:56):
and brings more urgency whenadult goes missing. The bill, if
passed, will notify members ofthe public of a critically
missing adult when adult isconsidered endangered Missy.
Right. And she would beconsidered that because of all
of her medical conditions andthe fact that she, you know,
left her medication behind sothat the Aubrey alert bill is
(15:18):
introduced okay in January.
Okay. All right. But in February2021, the bill is renamed the
Casey alert. And this is why doto operate Aubree being
transgender being a transgenderwoman. Right. Why are you back
is immediately given by theHouse Public Safety Committee
(15:42):
explaining that they absolutelywould not support the bill being
renamed for a transgenderperson.
According to Pam, her aunt,because of this, this bill is
(16:03):
renamed the Casey alert forCasey Russell, a man who
disappeared from a casino inSeminole, Oklahoma in July of
2016. That's introduced inFebruary. Casey alert is passed
in April 24 of 2023. So not verylong ago. This has passed and I
(16:25):
love that because we have, youknow, we have it for children,
but we don't have anything foradults. We have Silver Alert for
older people that maybe walkaway from homes and have
dementia and that type of stuff.
But there's nothing forendangered adults, which makes
it you know, right andright. So why is it called? I'm
a little bit confused toclarify. Because why is it
(16:46):
called was Aubrey transgender?
Yeah. Oh, yes.
Not totally wiped out until No,I did that intentionally. Okay.
Right. Just to get that effect.
Thank you. Thank you for playingalong. Okay.
So not only was she was sheNative American Indian, but
(17:08):
yeah, he used to be. She wasborn Yeah. Male or who knows?
Maybe, intersex? We don't know.
There wego. So now we've got the motive
of the boyfriend. We have allthese weird people that are
saying things. She's NativeAmerican. She's transgender. Now
you have to look at the motiveof possible hate crime, right.
Yeah. Sadly, yeah. Right.
(17:32):
It could have been it could havebeen a history though. Because
that drug culture? Yeah. I mean,were her parents doing drugs, I
wonder, because why was everyoneup at 330 in the morning? And if
she wasn't going out at 330 inthe morning for drugs, was it?
You know, did she have to sleepwith people on the side that I
mean, we just don't know thatmuch about her life, or her
(17:53):
lifestyle, or the culture. Sohere's a no so little.
Right. So here's a little bit ofhistory, though, about the whole
transgender thing. So Audrey hadan uncle, who was just six
months older than her. But theywere raised together like
siblings, so they were more likebrothers. So she was born a boy.
(18:15):
So as they were growing up, andthey were really, really tied in
siblings, they both preferreddolls to trucks as they were
playing. Okay. They dideventually, they were so close.
So they did eventually come outto each other as T It's nice.
They had each other.
Yeah. So her uncle said thatwhen she told her family, she
(18:38):
was transgender. There was ahuge weight lifted from her.
Right, which finally came out ahuge, huge weight lifted, and
that's all great. The family,it's taken them a while. Right?
She posted on social media outshe you know how she was coming
out and also proud of her nativeAmerican background. So we
(19:02):
talked a little bit before abouther big social media presence
and her Facebook. So she justdove right in and said, Look,
I'm transgender now. I'm a very,very proud Native American. And
from what I can tell, that's notyou know, a great thing to do
not that part of the world,sadly, not in that part of the
(19:22):
world. Yes. So there had been,she was not received well,
obviously, by our community.
There had been a lot of slurs,and there had been a lot of
chasing a vehicle so they wouldsee her walking and they would
start yelling at her and chaseher down in vehicles
with with threats that harm heror why would for example, yeah,
(19:43):
yeah, sad.
Absolutely. Because she decidedto do you know, this whole media
blitz in her world, a mediablitz, and so people were just
not good with it. So anyways,some family members said that
her mom Brother, we're notinterested in looking for her.
Oh, that's so so that also addsa lot to the tapestry.
(20:09):
Right. So when I go back and Ilook, it's like those vigils,
there were some family members,and there were some friends. But
according to, you know, onefamily member that mom and
brother, we're not interested inall looking for her. So we have
all of these dynamics, right?
Like, in domestic violence, itwas just so easy. I don't want
to say easy, but like, you knewwho it was right it like, and
(20:31):
that's why I can only take itfor about a year, because, you
know, I've said it before, thechallenge isn't trying to figure
out who did it the challenges istrying to convince the victim to
follow through, right, alongwith all of the other
precautions that you have totake with the victim, because
you're telling them please showup for court, please testify.
And then also, you've got togive them precautions about
(20:52):
well, that's gonna put you inmore harm and telling them you
need to leave. And of course,when they finally decide to
leave, that's when it's the mostdangerous, you know, time for
victims of domestic violencewhen they finally decide to
leave. So there's just thiswhole gigantic dynamic with it,
right? And then with this, herbe a Native American and
(21:13):
transgender. It's like, wow,where do you even start? You
know, you've got to go, butyou've got to go down both
roads. I mean, at first, it'slike, oh, well, he killed he
threatened to kill her. She wasscared. She told people she was
scared. Okay, that's great. Butobviously, from what I can tell
the police department now, tome, just based on what I could
tell, they did a pretty goodjob. But if you dig a little bit
(21:35):
deeper into it, the familywasn't really happy with the way
that the police did it. And ofcourse, they said, well, it was
because of her history withdrugs, or well, it was because
of her, you know, now she'stransgender. But there was some
quotes that I found from thesheriff's department and said
that no, we we investigated it,as you know, just as much as we
(21:55):
investigate any other case, younever really know. I mean, I
think you hear it every singletime when families are living in
this nightmare of hell of notbeing able to find their loved
ones, and knowing probably thatthey're dead, that they gotta
blame somebody, right? In thepolice. It's the easiest people.
You know, they didn't do theirjob. They didn't find my loved
one, you know, there's noanswers and all that. But the
(22:17):
FBI eventually got, you know,involved in it. And the
Cherokee, they have a CherokeeNation Marshal Service. And now
they're involved in it. Andhopefully that will help with
that. Because, right, so itjust, it's just so hard. But
statistics, Native Americans,rates of violence are 10 times
(22:41):
higher than the nationalaverage, just the Native
America.
Well, I know one thing, but I doknow one thing about that
culture and alcoholism and thatculture is rampid.
Yeah. Right. Right. So that'sjust interesting. But hopefully,
you know, with the marshals inthe FBI jumping on it, that
(23:04):
they'll get, they'll do a deepdive. And, you know, of course,
I'll be asked, What would I do?
I would totally just go back andstart with the family, just to
very basic questions, like, whywould she leave at 330? In the
morning? Did anybody ask whereshe was? Like, very, very basic
stuff?
Right? Why were you awake at330? In the morning? Just, you
(23:25):
know?
Right? Yeah, all of that stuff.
And you know, and then ofcourse, you've got to just dig
down deeper with the boyfriendand, and find out, you know more
about that. But I mean, therewere some people that really,
you know, cared about her andloved her. And, you know, the
fact that she finally feltcomfortable to come out. And
then it's like, one of thosethings, I feel like she came out
(23:46):
and she came out big, not onlyto our family, but social media,
Facebook, all of that stuff.
And, you know, you got to askthe question, Is that why she
got, you know, is that how shegot killed? So, just, it's
really sad.
I mean, it's obviously morethere are more suspects than
just the boyfriend because ofthe the reaction of the
(24:09):
community people try, you know,chasing her down, you know,
calling her names and this andthat. Well, and I think, I think
too,that there could be there could
be a motive with the whole drugthing. Obviously the
or that could be drug related.
It could be your boyfriend or itcould just be hate crime.
Yeah. And the woman that calledand did the hoax and I mean,
(24:32):
it's very, I mean, it's verylikely that maybe she did oh,
some people some drugs and maybethis woman thought will fuck,
they'll pay, you know what Imean? Maybe they'll pay so she
just tried it and just ended upright.
That just seems like acompletely, you know, that just
seems like a parallel incidentto the case. Not really
connected at all. Just yeah,like somebody somebody's trying
(24:55):
to exploit the situation.
Absolutely. So she must havebeen, you know, pretty well
known for, you know, being inthat lifestyle, but also well
known to, you know, to try totry to fix it to right because
she had gone away to try to gethelp. So I just wanted to bring
a little bit of covers to this.
So it's an interesting case,because there's just a lot of
(25:15):
dynamics to it. But in but andalso, there's Christmas, this
whole part of it that we don'tknow which your signature way of
investigating crimes is to getthe story behind the story. And
you always ask everybody'sbackstory and the family's
backstory. And that would add somuch to it. Yeah, to just to
understand, like, okay, so shemade some strange choices, it's
(25:37):
easy to judge her. But if weknow her backstory, and the way
she was raised, we know a littlebit. Her family was up at 330 in
the morning, and didn't ask herwho she was going to meet, or
why she was going out at 330. Inthe morning, that gives us a
little bit of, well, Imean, if someone were to
parachute me down into herneighborhood, and I parachuted
into mom and dad's living room,you know, we'd have a
(26:03):
lot more compassion for the thedecision she was making in this
situation, she found herselfthat way. And we therefore have
a lot more compassion. Well,we're not that we don't have
compassion. But other peoplemight have more compassion for
the fact that she'swell, and that too, like, so
people always ask, like, whatwould you do? And you would
think I would just, you know, goup and go, Okay, what do you
(26:24):
what do you think happened? Orwhat do you know? And it's not,
I wouldn't even do that for along time, I would do exactly
what you said, which is, justget to know, the family before
you start even in askinginvestigative questions, it is
so important to, to try to get areport and you can't just dive
in with what do you thinkhappened? I like to ask that
(26:45):
question. But I like to ask itafter I'd developed a
relationship, because the answeris a lot longer. And it's a lot
more intimate. And it's a lotmore detail oriented, if I've
already established that. Soit's really kind of a slow
process. Right? You know, if Iwere to, like I said, Be
parachuted down, it would be aslow process of just trying to
develop relationships with herfamily, with her friends, look
(27:07):
at every social media thing, youknow, and just, you know, just
keep working it and talkingDon't Don't be rushed about it,
just, you know, because it's,she's gone. Right? And she's
probably dead more than likelydead, if not been killed? Well,
because of the not having rideson me would be absolutely, but
(27:29):
so it can be a slow process toreally, really try to paint the
picture to, you know, put you inthe right direction. I mean,
it's great when people call inwith tips, and they say, Hey,
she's, she's in this pond, andthey and they do what they need
to do, that's great. But whenthey get cold like this, and
it's been a few years, youreally just have to work at
(27:51):
slow. So, you know, for thatquestion that I'm asked so many
times, just there's no rush. Andthat was something that I
learned to, you know, when Iarrived in homicide scenes, like
you're such an adrenaline high,and everything's so fast, right?
You're trying to get to thescene fast and, and trying to
get it solved fast, becauseyou're worried that if you don't
(28:13):
get everything really, reallyquickly, you're gonna lose it.
And I just remember being told,slow down, like slow it down.
And just because you'll missstuff going fast in this, you
can even be slower, right?
Because it's all right there.
Again, it's always all rightthere. It's just are you going
to catch it or not? So ifanybody has any information on
(28:34):
this case, you can call one 800Call FBI. Simple like that one
800 Call FBI or you can call theCherokee Nation Marshal Service
at 918207 3800. Again, weappreciate please pass this
along to your friends and familyour podcasts rate and review and
we will see you next time onmurder with Mannina.
(28:59):
If you have a cold case you'dlike Chris to review submitted
through our website at murderwith mannina.com and follow us
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episode of murder with mannina.
People just want to know whatit's like to be me. How does it
feel to see a dead body? Tell afamily their loved one has been
murdered, talk to a rape victim,catch a killer, and get them to
confess, hold on tight, myfriends, get ready for the
journey. And welcome to murderwith Mannina. Hello, everyone,
(00:22):
and welcome to another editionof murder with mannina. Before
we get started on this case, Igotta tell you, I just
participated and got certifiedin teaching an active shooter
training. So pretty excitedabout that.
That's fast. Yeah, it'sfantastic. Yeah,
I might go over it. Some I mightdo an episode on it, right,
(00:44):
because it's something that wecan absolutely talk about. But
it gets your brain moving. It'sa it's a newer version of RUN,
HIDE fight, which I don't love.
But this version kind of givesyou a little bit more options of
things to think about. Soanyways, maybe I'll do an
episode if people areinterested.
That's a great idea. Yeah, wecould do an episode on it. So
and I like it. That's a greatidea. Yeah, that
(01:07):
could help a lot of people. Ihave a friend that went into a
grocery store late at night, andit was being held up. And the
and they turned the guns on her.
And she had learned somewherealways to run in a zigzag if
someone's shooting at you. Andshe did and they did shoot at
her, but they missed Oh, yeah.
(01:29):
And she survived. Yeah.
Oh, okay. Good. Yeah, that thisexact thing is a real thing. And
that's actually talked about inthis training. So if you're
interested, you know, we'll doit. We'll do an episode on it.
I think that's a great idea forus definitely do it.
All right. Well, today we'regoing to talk about a missing
person. And she's been missingfor nearly Well, let's see 2004
(01:53):
days. And her name was this is areally interesting case, there's
kind of a lot of dynamics, youthink it's something obvious,
and then it kind of twists andturns a little bit. So there's a
lot of different people whocould have different motives. So
let's take it let's take a crackat this and get it out. So her
(02:14):
name was Aubrey Damron. Andshe's been missing since March
19 of 2009. So in August of2018, she moved back to Oklahoma
and she's Native American.
That's, that's, that'simportant. But she's Native
American. So anyway, she movedback to Oklahoma, or I'm sorry,
she moved back from Oklahomaafter she moved to New Mexico
(02:35):
with her boyfriend. And his nameis Jay Pearson. And according to
him, she had decided to to moveback home to seek treatment for
alcohol and drug abuse. Okay, sothere's one indicator of a
motive always, when we talkabout, you know, alcohol and
drug abuse, okay. But she toldher aunt Pam, who she was real
(02:56):
close with, that she was afraidof him. Smith mentioned that
Audrey told her that herboyfriend threatened to kill her
if she were to leave him.
So and those are Oh, yeah. Wow.
First big Well,I mean, he Yeah. So it's
interesting when I did work indomestic violence, you know,
they don't mess around. If theysay they're going to kill you.
And you stay long enough, theyprobably will. Because think
(03:18):
about the arguments that you'vegotten in to with your, you
know, significant other orwhatever. Very rarely, if ever,
do people say I'm going to killyou. So it's, it's not so you
might feel like that in themoment. But as far as actually
like saying those words, it'snot really, really common. And
so when they do say it, you haveto believe them. They may not do
(03:40):
it that day, when they say, butmore, nine times out of 10 if
they are threatening to killyou. They will. It's a real,
they have it in other words theyhave because think about that's
that's just not something thatyou can say easily. So anyways,
okay, so on the morning of March
9 2019, around 3 (03:59):
30am. And that's always suspect right the
time of day, but 330 in themorning, she leaves her mother's
house in Oklahoma, and she'ssupposedly trying to meet
someone. She had messagedseveral people on Facebook
asking for a ride before sheleft, but it's still not known
whether someone picked her up ornot. She was really, really big
(04:22):
on social media. So 330 in themorning, just what we know right
now domestic situations andpossible drug and alcohol abuse.
Right, we're painting thepicture, which is always what I
like to do when we're coveringcold cases. Her phone though,
was last ping that 3 (04:36):
42am And she was close to her home. And
then she's literally not beenheard or seen from since. So
she's paying close to home.
She's also considered to be atrisk and this is another
important thing because shesuffers from epilepsy and
requires anti seizuremedication, along with a other
(04:58):
prescription medications whatshe had left at home that
morning. So wasn't necessarilyplanning to be gone leave. She
wanted to leave but rarely.
Okay, so she and this is anotherthing that supports she was last
seen wearing all black she don'town a black jacket, top skirt,
tights and boots. She was 25years old and is described as
(05:21):
being five to five foot 10 tallon weighing around 150 pounds.
She also has brown hair andbrown eyes and has multiple
tattoos and tattoo on herbackside of her neck, a circular
design tattoo with a word shortyon her left shoulder and tattoos
on both hips. And those arealways obviously really, really
important if they were to find abody tattoos are fantastic. And
(05:44):
help with identification. Okay,so let's just get down to the
nitty gritty, August night, orAugust 18 of 2018. She moves
back to Oklahoma, like I said,she had said that she was scared
of her boyfriend and told heraunt that he had threatened to
kill her. Okay, December of2018, just a few months later,
the communication with herfamily decreases. And that's
(06:07):
another indicator of domesticviolence, right? And we talked a
little bit about that. So shewas really very Social Savvy.
And she always communicated via,you know, Facebook or whatever.
So communication decreases withher family. And that's always a
clue me. And that's like, if youyou know, people that are always
in contact and they stop,something is up. Okay. She
(06:31):
constantly uses social mediaaccounts. She's always in
contact with her family membersand friends, literally every
day. But in December, it startedto stop and her media presence
starts slowing, and it stopsaltogether. All right. So now we
jumped to February, analtercation takes place between
her and her stepfather. I guessit was so bad that the
(06:56):
stepfather filed charges ofassault and battery against her,
but they were dropped just a fewdays later. Not a lot of
specifics of what that is, butwe'll be able to maybe have an
idea towards the end of this. SoFebruary 25, was her last post
on Facebook, she posts for thelast time on her Facebook
account. And what she shares isan image of a chalkboard. That
(07:19):
states you're never tooimportant to be nice to people.
Last thing she put on herFacebook, right into February
now we're into March March 9.
She's last seen leaving herfamily's home before she leaves.
Like I said before she messagesa bunch of people on Facebook
looking for a ride. According toher mother. She's planning on
(07:40):
meeting someone that night, butit's not known whether anyone
picks her up. She her mothertells please that she came into
the living room where her motherand brother were and informs
them that she is going to meet afriend. It happens around 330 In
the morning, and then she leavesher home without her purse or
important medic medication. Sowhat's interesting to me about
(08:02):
that is everybody's up at 330 inthe morning,
I was just gonna say that's themost Yeah, it's
like, Hey, I'm gonna leave andthey're like, Okay, that's a
little, that's a little weird,but whatever. Okay, so.
And you're sure it was 330 inthe morning and not 330 3:30am.
(08:23):
And then of course, I mentionedher Her phone is pinging at 342.
So just about 12 minutes aftershe physically leaves the house.
Her phone is pinged. And theylive in a mobile Park home to I
don't know if I mentioned that.
All right. So a couple dayslater, she's reported missing
now to two days later. Sothat's, that's a little thing
(08:46):
that's a little bit concerning.
And I would love to get in touchwith the family. Just to talk a
little bit about that, becauseshe obviously lives with her mom
and stepdad. And she's verysocial, and, you know, all of
those things and for her not tocome home for two days. You
know, I don't know, with thewhole alleged, you know, trying
(09:06):
to get help for drugs. I mean,she may have a routine of, you
know, being gone for a coupledays, but that's a that's a red
flag for me. Okay, so but theydo report her missing to The
Delaware County Sheriff'sDepartment. Right again, that's
two days later. Strange. SoMarch 12, a woman calls Audrey's
ex boyfriend J, with falseinformation on Audrey's
(09:30):
whereabouts. Like here's anothertwist.
Really the Yeah, the waters keepgetting Meteor
so an unknown woman who claimsto be apres friend calls the
boyfriend and tells him thatshe's being held against her
will and catch him Oklahoma fordrug money. She owes someone
(09:50):
that that kind of sounds likethat could be reliable, right
just based on a little bit ofhistory we know. But she
continues to explain that Aubreywill be real least when the debt
is paid, and if they are notpaid, she will be killed. When
Investigators questioned her,they quickly learned that the
claim is a hoax. And she isarrested and subsequently
charged with extortion.
(10:13):
Okay, that's like strange. It'slike crazy strange. Yes, I
tracked a string. Yeah.
So that was March 12. Now we'rejumping to march 23. And there's
a search conducted near her homebecause there's a bloody sock
that is found. So a search teamwith Oklahoma City metro and
(10:34):
rescue team conducts a search ina heavily wooded area near the
near her home, the search leadsto discover the bloody sock,
approximately half a mile fromour home. The sock is submitted
to the Oklahoma State Bureau ofInvestigations for forensic
testing. And according toArby's, and they did not receive
any conclusive results from thispiece of potential evidence,
(10:55):
which couldn't match her blood.
That's I don't love that, butthat's what's being said. Okay.
Hmm.
So, yeah, hard, hard tounderstand how they couldn't
just know if it was a blood orexactly. So then the family, you
know, they start a Facebookpage. It's created by our family
members to help raise you know,awareness which this seems to be
(11:15):
really, really popular thesethese Facebook pages. So, in
April, Mom claims that Aubreyits former boyfriend told her
that he killed her. That's whatmom says.
What were the detailssurrounding that, according to a
probable cause affidavit obviousand alleges that J The former
boyfriend told Jennifer Andresmother that he had killed her.
(11:38):
There's no evidence linking J toAndres disappearance, so he was
never arrested. They have noevidence linking at all, which
other thanthe aunt said he told the mom
that isn't even direct.
Right. But I mean, you have tolook at him right because
(11:59):
there's Cora obviously youthreatened to kill her. But
evidently there is nothing tolink other than the threat which
could be huge. Suddenly, he andshe went she left she didn't say
I'm meeting J or I met she justsaid I'm meeting some right.
Right and her family at 330 inthe morning. Didn't ask her
who? Well and where are yougoing at 330?
(12:21):
Why and why.
So we jumped to May in an areain Kenwood, Oklahoma. There's a
search done over Memorial Dayweekend and the following
weekend after officials receivea tip, claiming that Aubrey was
buried in the area. During thesearch a shallow grave was found
next to a black leather jacket.
Now remember, in the descriptionearlier, she was wearing a black
(12:42):
jacket. Nothing else was foundduring the search and the jacket
is sent off to the OklahomaState Bureau of Investigation
for forensic testing. Upontesting the results for the
jacket came back as inconclusiveas to whether it belonged to
Audrey. But my question rightthere is show a picture of it to
the family.
(13:03):
Right. Right. Exactly. Okay. Andagain, wouldn't there be some
DNA on there that they couldleave? Absolutely, because
there would be like, she livedat that house. So go and get a
brush. Go get a toothbrush orsomething? It's not that
exactly. There's probably hairon her jacket if it's her
jacket, right.
(13:24):
May 27 The family holds a rallynot only for Aubrey, but also
for a couple other people thatwere missing in the area. So the
family is really big. They'redoing Facebook they're doing
rallies are really reallykeeping this alive.
And who were the other peoplewere they similar profiles?
Yes. Well, yes. And I'll get tothat later. Hold please. Okay,
(13:46):
so November now we jumped fromthat's in May, and then we
jumped to November and a pond inDelaware Canary searched, so
after police receive itpromising lead, they drain this
pond by three feet and skim thepond and search for her or any
of her belongings. According tofamily members. The search is
conducted after dogs alertedthem to the pond. Several items
(14:07):
were found during search cluedin an old fashioned old
flashlight fishing reel in aplastic bag, but nothing was
related to her disappearance. SoI feel like the police are you
know, they're getting tips andthey're getting leads and
they're following through atleast it appears that sounds
like it. Yeah, but familydoesn't feel that way as this
goes on. So they do hold a vigilevery year. They did it in 2020
(14:32):
for the one year. And the vigilis attended by family members,
friends and community members tohonor and remember her. Again.
They're doing a lot now we'rejumping into 2021. So the Aubrey
alert bill or House Bill 7090 isintroduced to the Oklahoma
legislature which calls formissing adult alerts in Oklahoma
(14:56):
and brings more urgency whenadult goes missing. The bill, if
passed, will notify members ofthe public of a critically
missing adult when adult isconsidered endangered Missy.
Right. And she would beconsidered that because of all
of her medical conditions andthe fact that she, you know,
left her medication behind sothat the Aubrey alert bill is
(15:18):
introduced okay in January.
Okay. All right. But in February2021, the bill is renamed the
Casey alert. And this is why doto operate Aubree being
transgender being a transgenderwoman. Right. Why are you back
is immediately given by theHouse Public Safety Committee
(15:42):
explaining that they absolutelywould not support the bill being
renamed for a transgenderperson.
According to Pam, her aunt,because of this, this bill is
(16:03):
renamed the Casey alert forCasey Russell, a man who
disappeared from a casino inSeminole, Oklahoma in July of
2016. That's introduced inFebruary. Casey alert is passed
in April 24 of 2023. So not verylong ago. This has passed and I
(16:25):
love that because we have, youknow, we have it for children,
but we don't have anything foradults. We have Silver Alert for
older people that maybe walkaway from homes and have
dementia and that type of stuff.
But there's nothing forendangered adults, which makes
it you know, right andright. So why is it called? I'm
a little bit confused toclarify. Because why is it
(16:46):
called was Aubrey transgender?
Yeah. Oh, yes.
Not totally wiped out until No,I did that intentionally. Okay.
Right. Just to get that effect.
Thank you. Thank you for playingalong. Okay.
So not only was she was sheNative American Indian, but
(17:08):
yeah, he used to be. She wasborn Yeah. Male or who knows?
Maybe, intersex? We don't know.
There wego. So now we've got the motive
of the boyfriend. We have allthese weird people that are
saying things. She's NativeAmerican. She's transgender. Now
you have to look at the motiveof possible hate crime, right.
Yeah. Sadly, yeah. Right.
(17:32):
It could have been it could havebeen a history though. Because
that drug culture? Yeah. I mean,were her parents doing drugs, I
wonder, because why was everyoneup at 330 in the morning? And if
she wasn't going out at 330 inthe morning for drugs, was it?
You know, did she have to sleepwith people on the side that I
mean, we just don't know thatmuch about her life, or her
(17:53):
lifestyle, or the culture. Sohere's a no so little.
Right. So here's a little bit ofhistory, though, about the whole
transgender thing. So Audrey hadan uncle, who was just six
months older than her. But theywere raised together like
siblings, so they were more likebrothers. So she was born a boy.
(18:15):
So as they were growing up, andthey were really, really tied in
siblings, they both preferreddolls to trucks as they were
playing. Okay. They dideventually, they were so close.
So they did eventually come outto each other as T It's nice.
They had each other.
Yeah. So her uncle said thatwhen she told her family, she
(18:38):
was transgender. There was ahuge weight lifted from her.
Right, which finally came out ahuge, huge weight lifted, and
that's all great. The family,it's taken them a while. Right?
She posted on social media outshe you know how she was coming
out and also proud of her nativeAmerican background. So we
(19:02):
talked a little bit before abouther big social media presence
and her Facebook. So she justdove right in and said, Look,
I'm transgender now. I'm a very,very proud Native American. And
from what I can tell, that's notyou know, a great thing to do
not that part of the world,sadly, not in that part of the
(19:22):
world. Yes. So there had been,she was not received well,
obviously, by our community.
There had been a lot of slurs,and there had been a lot of
chasing a vehicle so they wouldsee her walking and they would
start yelling at her and chaseher down in vehicles
with with threats that harm heror why would for example, yeah,
(19:43):
yeah, sad.
Absolutely. Because she decidedto do you know, this whole media
blitz in her world, a mediablitz, and so people were just
not good with it. So anyways,some family members said that
her mom Brother, we're notinterested in looking for her.
Oh, that's so so that also addsa lot to the tapestry.
(20:09):
Right. So when I go back and Ilook, it's like those vigils,
there were some family members,and there were some friends. But
according to, you know, onefamily member that mom and
brother, we're not interested inall looking for her. So we have
all of these dynamics, right?
Like, in domestic violence, itwas just so easy. I don't want
to say easy, but like, you knewwho it was right it like, and
(20:31):
that's why I can only take itfor about a year, because, you
know, I've said it before, thechallenge isn't trying to figure
out who did it the challenges istrying to convince the victim to
follow through, right, alongwith all of the other
precautions that you have totake with the victim, because
you're telling them please showup for court, please testify.
And then also, you've got togive them precautions about
(20:52):
well, that's gonna put you inmore harm and telling them you
need to leave. And of course,when they finally decide to
leave, that's when it's the mostdangerous, you know, time for
victims of domestic violencewhen they finally decide to
leave. So there's just thiswhole gigantic dynamic with it,
right? And then with this, herbe a Native American and
(21:13):
transgender. It's like, wow,where do you even start? You
know, you've got to go, butyou've got to go down both
roads. I mean, at first, it'slike, oh, well, he killed he
threatened to kill her. She wasscared. She told people she was
scared. Okay, that's great. Butobviously, from what I can tell
the police department now, tome, just based on what I could
tell, they did a pretty goodjob. But if you dig a little bit
(21:35):
deeper into it, the familywasn't really happy with the way
that the police did it. And ofcourse, they said, well, it was
because of her history withdrugs, or well, it was because
of her, you know, now she'stransgender. But there was some
quotes that I found from thesheriff's department and said
that no, we we investigated it,as you know, just as much as we
(21:55):
investigate any other case, younever really know. I mean, I
think you hear it every singletime when families are living in
this nightmare of hell of notbeing able to find their loved
ones, and knowing probably thatthey're dead, that they gotta
blame somebody, right? In thepolice. It's the easiest people.
You know, they didn't do theirjob. They didn't find my loved
one, you know, there's noanswers and all that. But the
(22:17):
FBI eventually got, you know,involved in it. And the
Cherokee, they have a CherokeeNation Marshal Service. And now
they're involved in it. Andhopefully that will help with
that. Because, right, so itjust, it's just so hard. But
statistics, Native Americans,rates of violence are 10 times
(22:41):
higher than the nationalaverage, just the Native
America.
Well, I know one thing, but I doknow one thing about that
culture and alcoholism and thatculture is rampid.
Yeah. Right. Right. So that'sjust interesting. But hopefully,
you know, with the marshals inthe FBI jumping on it, that
(23:04):
they'll get, they'll do a deepdive. And, you know, of course,
I'll be asked, What would I do?
I would totally just go back andstart with the family, just to
very basic questions, like, whywould she leave at 330? In the
morning? Did anybody ask whereshe was? Like, very, very basic
stuff?
Right? Why were you awake at330? In the morning? Just, you
(23:25):
know?
Right? Yeah, all of that stuff.
And you know, and then ofcourse, you've got to just dig
down deeper with the boyfriendand, and find out, you know more
about that. But I mean, therewere some people that really,
you know, cared about her andloved her. And, you know, the
fact that she finally feltcomfortable to come out. And
then it's like, one of thosethings, I feel like she came out
(23:46):
and she came out big, not onlyto our family, but social media,
Facebook, all of that stuff.
And, you know, you got to askthe question, Is that why she
got, you know, is that how shegot killed? So, just, it's
really sad.
I mean, it's obviously morethere are more suspects than
just the boyfriend because ofthe the reaction of the
(24:09):
community people try, you know,chasing her down, you know,
calling her names and this andthat. Well, and I think, I think
too,that there could be there could
be a motive with the whole drugthing. Obviously the
or that could be drug related.
It could be your boyfriend or itcould just be hate crime.
Yeah. And the woman that calledand did the hoax and I mean,
(24:32):
it's very, I mean, it's verylikely that maybe she did oh,
some people some drugs and maybethis woman thought will fuck,
they'll pay, you know what Imean? Maybe they'll pay so she
just tried it and just ended upright.
That just seems like acompletely, you know, that just
seems like a parallel incidentto the case. Not really
connected at all. Just yeah,like somebody somebody's trying
(24:55):
to exploit the situation.
Absolutely. So she must havebeen, you know, pretty well
known for, you know, being inthat lifestyle, but also well
known to, you know, to try totry to fix it to right because
she had gone away to try to gethelp. So I just wanted to bring
a little bit of covers to this.
So it's an interesting case,because there's just a lot of
(25:15):
dynamics to it. But in but andalso, there's Christmas, this
whole part of it that we don'tknow which your signature way of
investigating crimes is to getthe story behind the story. And
you always ask everybody'sbackstory and the family's
backstory. And that would add somuch to it. Yeah, to just to
understand, like, okay, so shemade some strange choices, it's
(25:37):
easy to judge her. But if weknow her backstory, and the way
she was raised, we know a littlebit. Her family was up at 330 in
the morning, and didn't ask herwho she was going to meet, or
why she was going out at 330. Inthe morning, that gives us a
little bit of, well, Imean, if someone were to
parachute me down into herneighborhood, and I parachuted
into mom and dad's living room,you know, we'd have a
(26:03):
lot more compassion for the thedecision she was making in this
situation, she found herselfthat way. And we therefore have
a lot more compassion. Well,we're not that we don't have
compassion. But other peoplemight have more compassion for
the fact that she'swell, and that too, like, so
people always ask, like, whatwould you do? And you would
think I would just, you know, goup and go, Okay, what do you
(26:24):
what do you think happened? Orwhat do you know? And it's not,
I wouldn't even do that for along time, I would do exactly
what you said, which is, justget to know, the family before
you start even in askinginvestigative questions, it is
so important to, to try to get areport and you can't just dive
in with what do you thinkhappened? I like to ask that
(26:45):
question. But I like to ask itafter I'd developed a
relationship, because the answeris a lot longer. And it's a lot
more intimate. And it's a lotmore detail oriented, if I've
already established that. Soit's really kind of a slow
process. Right? You know, if Iwere to, like I said, Be
parachuted down, it would be aslow process of just trying to
develop relationships with herfamily, with her friends, look
(27:07):
at every social media thing, youknow, and just, you know, just
keep working it and talkingDon't Don't be rushed about it,
just, you know, because it's,she's gone. Right? And she's
probably dead more than likelydead, if not been killed? Well,
because of the not having rideson me would be absolutely, but
(27:29):
so it can be a slow process toreally, really try to paint the
picture to, you know, put you inthe right direction. I mean,
it's great when people call inwith tips, and they say, Hey,
she's, she's in this pond, andthey and they do what they need
to do, that's great. But whenthey get cold like this, and
it's been a few years, youreally just have to work at
(27:51):
slow. So, you know, for thatquestion that I'm asked so many
times, just there's no rush. Andthat was something that I
learned to, you know, when Iarrived in homicide scenes, like
you're such an adrenaline high,and everything's so fast, right?
You're trying to get to thescene fast and, and trying to
get it solved fast, becauseyou're worried that if you don't
(28:13):
get everything really, reallyquickly, you're gonna lose it.
And I just remember being told,slow down, like slow it down.
And just because you'll missstuff going fast in this, you
can even be slower, right?
Because it's all right there.
Again, it's always all rightthere. It's just are you going
to catch it or not? So ifanybody has any information on
(28:34):
this case, you can call one 800Call FBI. Simple like that one
800 Call FBI or you can call theCherokee Nation Marshal Service
at 918207 3800. Again, weappreciate please pass this
along to your friends and familyour podcasts rate and review and
we will see you next time onmurder with Mannina.
(28:59):
If you have a cold case you'dlike Chris to review submitted
through our website at murderwith mannina.com and follow us
on Instagram and Facebook atmurder with mannina and Twitter
at murder W mannina. We'll beback next week with a brand new
episode of murder with mannina.
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