November 12, 2022 • 55 mins
In this special episode of the MUSED: LA 2 HOU podcast, photographer Luis C. Garza talks with collector and curator Armando Durón, museum director Megan Callewaert McAdow, and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks.
This conversation was first presented as an online public program to coincide with the exhibition “Time Refocused: Photographs by Luis C. Garza" on view at the Marshall M. Fredericks Sculpture Museum in University City, Michigan (September 11, 2021 to January 15, 2022). Check out the virtual tour of this exhibition at https://www.marshallfredericks.net/luisgarza.html.
While recorded on October 9, 2021, this timeless conversation shares much of the backstory of Garza’s work of how he became a photographer and the inspiration for many of the images that he took while documenting his view of the Chicano civil rights movement, the World Peace Conference in Hungary, and even the women’s movement in New York during the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Garza's latest exhibition "The Other Side of Memory: Photographs by Luis C. Garza" is on view at Riverside Art Museum in California through Sunday, March 19, 2023. Details at https://riversideartmuseum.org/exhibits/the-other-side-of-memory-luis-garza/
Check out more in-depth articles, stories, and photographs by Melissa Richardson Banks at www.melissarichardsonbanks.com. Learn more about CauseConnect at www.causeconnect.net.
Follow Melissa Richardson Banks on Instagram as @DowntownMuse; @MUSEDhouston, and @causeconnect.
Subscribe and listen to the MUSED: LA 2 HOU podcast on your favorite streaming platforms, including Spotify, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, and more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (00:19):
Welcome to Mused, LADU.
I'm excited to bring you thisepisode of a conversation that I
had last year with photographerLuis C.
Garza and curator Armando Daronwhen we had an exhibition of
Luis's work in Michigan.
I bring you the conversation.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_03 (00:39):
My name is Megan McAdow.
I am the director of theMarshall M.
Frederick Sculpture Museum,located on the beautiful campus
of Saginaw Valley StateUniversity.
You see our museum with thesculpture garden.
We are home of America's publicsculptor, Marshall M.
Fredericks.
We have over 200 of hissculptures on view.
(01:00):
For those who may not know thatthey know Marshall Fredericks,
he made the famous Cleveland WarMemorial, also called the
Fountain of a The LeapingGazelle on Belle Isle in
Detroit, Michigan, amongst otherplaces was one of his very first
commissions.
Then also the Spirit of Detroit,which is one of his most iconic
(01:22):
works.
So he was very prolific doingmonumental size sculpture based
out of Michigan, but foundacross the world.
And then we also do four to sixspecial exhibitions each year,
included related programming andevents.
And that's what brings ustogether today.
So we'll be talking about ourcurrent special exhibition, Time
(01:46):
Refocused, photographs by LuisC.
Garza.
Okay, so today we have theartist himself, a photographer,
Luis C.
Garza.
I'm going to read a briefintroduction before you get to
hear directly from him.
Luis C.
Garza is an independent curatorand photojournalist who recorded
(02:09):
the tumultuous social events ofthe 1960s and 1970s, often on
behalf of La Raza magazine, thejournalistic voice of the
Chicano movement.
His images captured theattention of many and led to his
multifaceted career indocumentary production,
including Emmy Award-winningtelevision series Reflexiones or
(02:33):
Reflections, arts marketing,including Luis Valdez's Zoot
Suit, events coordination, LAFreeways, arts consulting with
the Getty ConservationInstitute, and exhibition
curators.
So, yes, a very multifacetedcareer.
(03:19):
at the Autry Museum of theAmerican West.
That elevated his work as acurator, and he went on to
collaborate with the UCLAChicano Studies Research Center
at the Autry on the blockbusterexhibition La Raza.
And it's also had a blockbusterbook as well, which is fabulous.
(03:40):
And that was for the Getty'sPacific Standard Time LA LA.
His 2009 exhibition TimeReflections photographs by Louis
C.
Garza, was recently revived andreorganized by Richardson Banks
for a national museum tour,which launched at the Marshall
and Frederick Sculpture Museum,where it's now on view again
(04:02):
through January 15th.
I mean, yeah, January 15th,2022.
Oh my gosh, almost there,people.
Okay, and we also have with usthe curator of this fabulous
exhibition, Armando Durong, whohas added He has avidly been
collecting Chicano art since1981.
His extensive collectionincludes over 660 artworks and
(04:27):
over 1,000 publications andbooks related to Chicano art.
It represents the last 40 yearsof Chicano art in Southern
California and reflects his ownChicano perspective on
collecting Chicano art.
Jerome curated Garza's debutexhibition of black and white
prints in Los Angeles at the KGBGallery, which was on view from
(04:52):
October 2009 to January 2010.
It was later displayed at theLatino Art Museum and California
and from January throughFebruary 2010 and at the Mexican
Cultural Institute of LosAngeles from March through April
2010.
And we are so glad to have it atour museum.
(05:14):
Talk about another multifacetedcareer.
Melissa Richardson Banks is thefounder of Cause Connect LLC,
which is a Los Angeles basedfirm that offers consulting
services related to themarketing, sponsorship and
corporate social responsibilityneeds of companies, nonprofit
organizations, and communityprojects, primarily in the areas
(05:37):
of arts and culture,environment, education, and
volunteer engagement.
She is also an independentcultural producer.
She manages and marketscommunity festivals, concerts,
art salons, museum exhibitions,and other cultural happenings.
We will also put a link again toher website where you can get
(05:58):
the book and a lot moreinformation about all of the
things that she does it'sfantastic and so I do actually
want to turn it over to Melissa
SPEAKER_04 (06:11):
Megan, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here and toactually present this program,
at least in terms of Luis andArmando, who are good friends of
mine.
And we share a similar historyin terms of actually how we all
came together.
And it's so rewarding that thisshow, Time Refocused,
photographed by Luis C.
Garza, happens to be really thenext step of what I'm going to
(06:34):
be doing with my business, whichis now in 20 years.
It started right after 9-11.
So I'm starting a new pro seriesof efforts that will really be
showcasing artists traditionallyunderrepresented in museums but
also particularly women andlatinos men and so i'm super
excited about this at you andthat we partnered on this
(06:55):
project to bring it to michigani'm thrilled um so i've worked
with luis and i've known him forwell over a decade longer than
that 15 years or more and we allcame together i think armando
and luis met at the same timearound we did whether know if
that's the same thing but butbasically I'm so thrilled that
we are got we've gotten to thispoint and I really want to start
(07:18):
by I know Louisa's storyintimately so I I'm going to
help guide the conversationbecause I I know he's maybe new
to you and others here so we'llshare but I'm very interested in
this particular show because itwas his debut as a photographer
and what you may not realize isthat he had many of these images
housed and archived at his homefor years years until he brought
(07:42):
it to light.
And under Armando's amazingcuration back in 2009, they
worked together to bring this,to showcase the work that Louise
has done.
It's very important.
And I'm curious, and I wouldlike to start it off by really
focusing on Louise.
I'll have some questions forArmando as a curator as well.
But I am, Louise, I would lovefor you to talk about in this
(08:04):
context, like when did youbecome a photographer and why
did you take the time off?
I guess too, there's that timeperiod, you know, in terms of
your career.
career.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
Thank you very much for the questions, and thank
you, Marshall Frederick'sSculpture Museum, for hosting
this exhibition.
It's an honor, and the revivalof the exhibition is really a
(08:34):
rebirth.
It's a renacimiento, as Melissahas taken it and has reshaped it
to travel, probably.
Thank you very much.
(09:01):
something that just was totallyunexpected.
And again, I repeat, it's anhonor to work with Melissa once
again and with Armando incurating, re-curating the
exhibition as it travels acrosscountry.
And Melissa and Armando willtell you where it will finally
(09:22):
reside in 2022.
In regards to how I came aboutphotography, again, to me, that
was serendipity.
I picked up the camera.
Bye.
by accident, although there areno accidents.
And I started photographing.
And I started with a KodakBrownie.
(09:44):
And I was impressed by my ownimages.
So then I gravitated to a 35millimeter Pentax camera, which
began the seriousness of myphotographing work, although I
had no direction at all, as BobDylan would say, no direction to
roam.
(10:04):
And so I It was a series ofevents that led me into
photography as a dedication andas a life choice.
And that comes about throughbeing parachuted into the
Chicano movement.
(10:25):
And I met a man by the name ofEd Bonilla who flipped my
worldview.
I was desperate.
I had moved out from New York toLos Angeles.
I had no work, no real friends.
And so he looked at me and hesaid, you're from New York.
(10:46):
I said, yeah, I'm from New York.
And he said, you're PuertoRican.
I said, no, I'm not PuertoRican.
I'm Mexican.
Although, yeah, I'm Puerto Ricanby osmosis says I'm Jewish, I'm
Irish, I'm Polish, I'm all thethings that I grew up with in
New York City.
And he says, a Chicano from NewYork.
Now, I had never heard the wordChicano.
(11:08):
And so I thought to myself,Chicano, Mexicano, close enough.
I said, yeah, I'm a Chicano.
And he said, okay, you got thejob.
I said, great, what's the job?
He said, you're going toorganize the people.
I said, how do you do that?
He says, well, you come tomorrowat nine o'clock and you bring
that camera that's strappedaround your neck and we're going
(11:29):
to start.
And so he introduces me to theChicano movement, to a number of
people at La Raza magazine.
At that time, Joe Russell andRaul Ruiz and Father Luz and a
whole bunch of other people atLa Raza.
beginnings of the Chicanomovement, 1968, 69.
And that's how I beganphotographing.
(11:50):
That's how my comes about.
I find a purpose in life and Istart photographing seriously.
And so that's the beginningsteps.
It's a worthy of many bottles ofwine, but I'll cut it there and
we'll move on to the nextquestion.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (12:11):
Well, I think what's interesting though, Louise, is
that there is this time that youwere actively photographing.
And I think really, to me, themost iconic image that I knew
you from, and I think Armando,we both were introduced to you,
is the image that you capturedof David Afero Siqueiros in
(12:33):
Budapest, Hungary.
Now, both Armando and I knowthis story to heart, but there
are many that don't know thisstory.
And I think, and who Siqueirosis, again, in context of Diego
Rivera and Jose Clemente Orozco,I think it's important to kind
of share that very quickly.
And then how did you meet him?
And then what What happened?
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
That's a wonderful piece of history because that's
also one of the major turningpoints in my life and my
dedication to both photographyand to the work of Siqueiros in
Los Angeles, which is how theexhibition that you and I worked
on came about.
I was all of 25, 26 years old atthe time, photographing at La
(13:20):
Raza.
Into La Raza magazine comes atall, lanky gentleman by the
name of Irving Sarnoff, who haspassed away, but he was the
director of the Peace ActionCouncil, who was organizing a
delegation of Americans totravel to Budapest, Hungary via
(13:41):
the Soviet Union, the WorldPeace Conference that was being
held in Budapest, Hungary.
And so I take flight from L.A.
to New York, meet up with myfamily, who is just, what are
you, Russia?
What are you going to Russiafor?
And so it's a whole scandalwithin the family.
(14:01):
That's, again, another subplotto the novella.
So I land in Moscow.
We go to Budapest.
And...
Siqueiros is part of the Mexicandelegation attending the World
Peace Conference.
When he finds out that there's aChicano in the American
delegation, which is about 25,30 people from various
(14:25):
organizations, nationalorganizations here in the United
States, he calls for a meeting.
I'm escorted the next morning tohis table where he stands up,
opens his arms, and he says,compañero.
Cuéntame de este movimientoChicano.
And he gives me a big hug and hesits me down between him and his
(14:47):
wife, Angelica Arinal, andRaquel Tibol, and a number of
the other Mexican delegates, andwe begin the conversation.
And he begins to ask me aboutthis Chicano movement and what
is it about.
They've been hearing informationin Mexico in regards to it.
You've got to remember, this is1971.
(15:08):
And so...
It's Brezhnev, the head of thechairman of Russia, and it's
Nixon, president of the UnitedStates.
It's the height of the Cold War,Vietnam War, women's movement,
Chicano movement, Blackmovement, all these various
(15:30):
movements.
It's a worldwide turmoil.
And so I, with my camera, youknow, would get together with
Siqueiros in the evenings, Andwe'd be smoking and drinking
vodka and talking art andrevolution.
At least he was.
I was in way over my head.
But with every shot of vodka, Igot bolder.
And so we'd be talking about LaRaza and the Chicano movement.
(15:56):
And he would be questioning meabout his murals, America
Tropical in particular, which...
Today is, ironically,metaphorically, and
realistically, the 89thanniversary of the debut of
America Tropical at OlveraStreet.
So I think it's quite auspiciousthat we're having this
(16:18):
conversation today.
But those images that I capturedof Siqueiros were part of...
an invitation that he gave tome.
And these are the partingphotographs that I take of him
and his wife, Angelica, after wecome out of an art school where
he gave a presentation.
(16:38):
But Siqueiros forever changed mylife.
He tapped me on the foreheadlike E.T., and it just
transformed me.
And when I returned back to LosAngeles, I dedicated myself to
the work of Siqueiros andfinding out more about him.
And That's how it comes about.
So in this shot that you see ofSiqueiros pointing at me, he's
(17:03):
actually doing the self-portraitthat he did of himself in a
painting that he did.
So it's, again, it's a seriesof...
confluence intersections andmeetings and things like that,
which forever transform yourlife and your photography and
(17:25):
the work that you do.
So he sets me upon a path thatjust reinforces everything that
I'm doing and that I'mdedicating myself to.
Okay, so I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
I'm going to bring in Armando here in just a
minute, but I wanted to set thestage because I really am
impressed and interested howArmando curated the show and
actually, which really, I thinkthe book may have been in some
ways curated first, or at leastthe sequence, which led to the
book and how it's presented, notonly in the book, but in its
execution at, in Michigan.
(17:57):
And I wanted to point out thatjust to kind of set the stage
here, Louise, as a photographerhas been, you know, again, born
in the Bronx, moved to LosAngeles, found himself involved
in East LA and Los Angeles,generally in the Chicano civil
rights movement, which by theway, was at this, you know,
civil rights movements,generally the women's rights
movement, the civil rightsmovements around the same time
(18:19):
period in Los Angeles inparticular, and also in Texas
where I'm housed now as well.
But there was the Chicano risingand uprising and continuing the
movement to today.
But, but then he also mentionedagain, the Budapest and the
world peace conference.
And And as part of that, he alsowent to what was the then USSR,
(18:39):
and he'll talk about that.
So there's three.
What's really great about thisexhibition, and Armando will go
in depth with this, and then I'dlike to go back to the archives
too.
But Armando, can you, and I havesome images that maybe the two
of you can talk about.
I've got some representativeimages here to share.
How did you take these threedifferent cities or bodies of
(19:01):
work, this style, which for me,I think with Louise, He has gone
from beyond a documentaryphotographer and a
photojournalist to really an artphotographer because they're
artfully done.
Would you address a little bitof that?
And if you'd like me to sharesome images with that, well,
just let me know and I'll changethe screen as we go.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
Sure.
And first of all, thank you forinviting me to be here.
You know, when I first saw theseimages in 2004 and I was
immediately taken by not so muchthe documentary aspect of them,
which I was somewhat familiarwith, especially the Chicano
(19:42):
movement, but the artisticaspect of them.
Something really was compellingabout them because beyond what
they were intended for, whichwas basically photojournalism.
Luis was, as part of the La Razamagazine photo team, was just
documenting what was going on inthe community.
(20:04):
But I saw these images andrealized that there was
something else.
It was like an accidentalaesthetics that emerged from his
work, which was very compelling.
And a couple of years passed andFrom when I first saw them, as I
said, in 2004 until 2009, whenwe actually mounted the show.
(20:27):
But the show was designed toshow that despite the fact that
there are three differentplaces, it's kind of the same
story.
And the narrative that people,the viewer can compose by
looking at the images as they goback and forth through one city
(20:49):
and one movement to another cityto something else that's going
on, like in Budapest or back inthe Bronx in New York with the
Young Lords, you can show thatimage first.
If you want.
But so what was happeningbetween the three of them, there
was a relationship between allof all of the various events of
(21:12):
various cities and that that Isaw was was we being weaved
through them and that theindividual photographs could
speak to each other.
across the cities.
In other words, we don't haveall the images to show you here,
(21:35):
but when you see the show,whether it's online or in
person, what I hope you'll findis that the relationship across
the cities and across themovements was still there.
It didn't matter that one thingwas happening and maybe they
didn't even know about eachother because these are people
who are caught up in a time andare involved in movements of
(22:00):
various sorts.
But then, bringing it forward to2009, what was even more
interesting was that they seemedtimely.
They were timeless.
And that's why I came up withthe title of Time Refocused,
(22:20):
because they were just as timelyin 2009 as they were in, say,
2007.
I mean, excuse me, 1971.
They were just as compelling tome.
And I think now in 2021, theyare equally compelling.
And that's why the show can bebrought up 11 years later or 12
(22:42):
years later.
And it's as fresh today as itwas, as the images were when he
was taking them in 1968, 69, 71,75.
They're just as timely.
And that's what was socompelling.
And it was so great to beinvolved in that process.
SPEAKER_04 (23:06):
Maybe what I can do, because I have about five images
here, and you can see I'm notreally great about this
PowerPoint, so I hope I'm doingit okay.
But maybe, Luis, you can justkind of briefly at least let
people know what city or alittle bit about each of these
real quickly here, and then wecan go.
And I'd like to talk a littlebit also about your body of work
generally and then also our nextsteps as well.
(23:27):
So this particular piece, canyou talk about what's on the
screen?
I hope it's on thereeffectively.
And what country is this?
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
This This particular image of the Young Lords Rally
in the South Bronx is actuallythe neighborhood that I was born
in.
I come from the South Bronx.
My family is from Mexico, SouthTexas, who migrated to New York
City in the 1920s.
And so I was born and raised inNew York City in the South
(23:55):
Bronx.
And this particular street is139th Street.
So the backdrop of thosebuildings was part of me
revisiting my youth, my past,And I was invited by the Young
Lords to come and hang out withthem, which I did.
So this is just one of a seriesof rolls of film that I took of
(24:18):
the Young Lords as I hung outwith them.
So the composition of it is onewhere...
Well, I'll speak to that later.
That's the aesthetic part thatArmando is talking about.
As Armando is my visiontherapist, Melissa is my vision
(24:40):
enabler.
And so between Armando andMelissa, which I am blessed to
have as friends and colleaguesand associates, I've come to
realize my work in a whole otherway that I never did before
because I never– I neverinterpreted my work outside of
(25:02):
looking at and thinking aboutthe imagery.
Anyway, that's a whole otherstory.
Go to the next.
Go to the next shot.
This is a thread bearer.
This is Tashkent, Uzbekistan.
in the Soviet Union or the thenSoviet Union.
(25:25):
We were invited after theBudapest Conference.
I went back to Moscow and thenthey invited some of us to join
them.
And so I spent a week.
What turned out, a two-week tripturned out to be a one-month
trip as I traveled around theSoviet Union.
And this was in a particularfactory where, again, it's part
(25:51):
of a series of photographs thatI took.
So each image really is just areflection of many, many more
other photographic works.
What Armando did in turn interms of his curatorial work was
weaving all the various storiesas he just expressed.
So go on to the next shot.
(26:14):
Ah, Sueño.
Sueño, this is WhittierBoulevard, East Los Angeles.
And this is a blind man.
who is taking a nap on a busstop.
And that bus stop is thebeginning of bus stop muralism
paintings by Chicano artists.
(26:34):
And so when you look at theimage in the background, the
full image, it says, hacenalteraciones, we make
alterations.
And it speaks to itself in termsof...
What is he imagining?
Armando can speak to theinterpretation of it.
(26:59):
He has a particular fondness forthis particular image.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
And I do, if I may, I really love this image because
I see a man dreaming perhapsabout his youth, about when he
was young and strong.
And that's what's beingreflected on the park bench.
And you can't see it on theslide, but on the original
(27:24):
image, it does say, we makealterations.
And it was just so poignant tome.
It was practically a conceptualpiece of work.
in which the sign is tellingyou, we can alter you, we can
change you, we can bring youback to that youth, and that's
what he's dreaming of.
And so the three, the sign, theold man, and the young man
(27:51):
portrayed on the bus, are in asense in conversation.
Something's going on there.
And so this is one of the imagesthat I really, just really
speaks to me.
And that tells me that this ideaof this accidental aesthetics is
(28:11):
very much alive in Luis's work,as well as some of the other La
Raza photographers.
But this image I think reallycaptures what I'm talking about
when I talk about accidentalaesthetics.
simple aesthetics.
SPEAKER_04 (28:26):
I'm going to go to the next slide.
I'll let you guys talk aboutthis.
This is, again, and for purposesof this display, some of these
have been detailed so you cansee them, but there's so much
more, as Armando was mentioning,when you see it in person and,
of course, online.
But this is an iconic image andalso resulted in another
project.
Maybe you both can discuss that.
I actually have one of thesemyself, so you can talk about
(28:50):
that.
So I know Armando does, too.
So let's talk about thisparticular project.
these boys and where they arelocated and a little bit about
your latest project with this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Armando, continue with the description of this
particular photograph.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Well, I think it's important to note that, first of
all, I think, Luis, you can talkabout where it is, and then I'll
talk about why I think it's suchan appealing photograph across
time, why it was so iconic rightfrom the beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
these two young men again this is just one image of
a series of photographs thatwere taken this is Aliso Pico
housing project in East LosAngeles and it's 1972 I believe
that I took this photograph andI'm a street photographer so I
(29:51):
would pick different spots inLos Angeles or wherever I was
and I'd walk and go intoneighborhoods.
And so I came across this groupof young men that were at the
children's monkey bars in thebackground that you see.
And I just...
(30:11):
Started photographing them.
And they looked at me.
They're in their mid-teens.
And they're exemplary of barrioyouth with the hat and the
Pendleton and the shirts and thehairdo and all of that.
(30:31):
And...
It became iconic from thebeginning.
Corky Gonzalez of the Crusade ofJustice out of Denver, Colorado,
used it as the book cover for YoSoy Joaquin, I Am Joaquin, his
epic poem.
And that was the first time itcame into a book publication.
(30:56):
Prior to that, it was only animage in La Raza magazine.
And then since that time, it'sbeen used by any number of
people and number ofpublications.
So it also became one of theiconic images within the La Raza
exhibition that the Autry did in2017, which was part of the
(31:20):
Pacific Standard Time show.
And it became a street banner ofall things.
I damn near crashed my car whenI first saw it waving in the
streets of Los Angeles.
And it generated a lot offeedback and also helped to
(31:42):
propel more of a recognition ofmy work, which is what La Raza
exhibition did for not onlymyself, but my fellow
colleagues.
When we put on this exhibition,which is a whole other story,
but I'll hand it over toArmando.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Well, you know, as I said in the in the catalog, I
said that the young men soenigmatic of the barrios of East
Los Angeles pose proudly theirinnocence fleeting.
but still discernible.
And I think that's what I reallylove about the image is that,
yeah, they're acting tough, youknow, especially the guy with
the hat, uh, wearing hisPendleton.
(32:22):
And as you notice, I'm wearingmy Pendleton.
I'm from that era.
So I wear Pendletons.
Um, and, uh, and yet you couldsee, right.
You know, you could still seethe innocence of these young
boys.
And of course now, uh, 40 yearslater, 50 years later, we're
here wondering, you know, whathappened to them?
(32:45):
You know, and that's true withvarious of these images in this
show is you wonder what happenedto some of the individuals and
the movements that they wereinvolved in and the struggles
they were involved in.
But certainly with this image,you wonder what happened to that
youth?
(33:05):
What happened to that bravado?
to that innocence, what happenedto the rest of their lives.
And they're gonna be, they'reprobably in their 70s at this
point, if they're still with us.
The image, of course, that Luishas now transformed into a
serigraph with a very lightcoloring to each of the images.
(33:35):
They're individually colored andthey're really beautiful.
And when he first showed them tome, I was trying to choose one
and I realized that I couldn'treally choose one because
something was happening.
And what was happening was thatthe images, as much as they were
(33:56):
the same image, were differentand they were differentiated by
the coloring, the very lightcoloring that Luis did on each
of the Pendletons and the hat,especially, we're
differentiating the images intosomething else.
And so I asked him to do one, Ibought two of them and put them
(34:19):
together and called it DoubleHomeborns.
And later on, I realized thatwhat he had done with it
essentially was do what AndyWarhol did with, say, double
Merlin or double Elvis, etcetera.
And that in that way, we said.
taken the imagery into adifferent level.
(34:44):
And it's a wonderful piece thatI have in my office currently.
But this image, I think, will bejust as fresh 100 years from
now.
It'll seem just as poignant,just as compelling 200 years
from now.
And that's what I love about it.
UNKNOWN (35:06):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (35:07):
I'm going to stop sharing on the screen because we
have the image here, but I wasgoing to say, you know, Louise,
you...
From 71 to, let's say again,2004, when you first met me too,
I think you first got to knowArmando better.
I think you might've known himbefore that.
But what I think is reallyinteresting is that you have
(35:33):
this archive of images that haveyet to see the light of this
world, if you will.
I mean, you have the 35 imagesthat are in Michigan that have
been shared in Los Angeles andin Southern California.
And now on this tour, but youhave five, we were talking the
other day, you have 5,000.
images from this time periodthat are an archive that we're
(35:59):
wanting to bring to light tothis world.
I mean, there's so much depth towhat you've done.
We've just really not even hitthe tip of the iceberg.
We've hit the tip of the tip ofthe tip of the tip of the tip.
And there are so many storiesthat can be told from this.
And that's what's reallyexciting to me because there's
just so much.
And some of the pieces that areon view in Michigan, by the way,
are the original silver gelatinfiber prints.
(36:21):
Now we had to reprint a few ofthem from the original
negatives.
But what's really exciting isthat what you see in Michigan,
so those of you privileged tosee the show in Michigan through
January 15th, you are seeing notonly this fine art, this
documentary photography as wellas fine art, but in addition,
you're seeing artifacts in manyof these cases.
(36:42):
These are those beautiful printsfrom that time period.
And I think what's exciting too,as we move on from Michigan,
we're going to take it toRiverside, California.
and we've actually unearthedanother 35 that Armando and
Louise have carefully chosen todouble the show.
And then some, it's going to beone of these, like the old
(37:03):
shampoo commercial, you know,kind of doubles and doubles and
doubles.
And I think this is what'sreally exciting is to be able to
reveal this story.
And as Armando and Louise andothers have shared, this story
is relevant today as it wasyears ago and it continues and
it's just an opportunity forcontinued storytelling.
And I think that's what's sobeautiful about unearthing a lot
(37:25):
of these things and starting toget it back in the world.
And which is one of the reasonswhy I wanted this to.
come to life again.
And there was this wonderfulopportunity to partner with
Megan and the team in Michiganat the Marshall M.
Fredericks Museum.
I'm grateful for that becausethey really had the foresight
and just to look at this andsay, this is what we need to
(37:46):
tell this story.
We want to be a part of it.
And we want to learn more aboutthis story because it's not just
a Southern California story.
This is an American story.
And this is part of our historyas part of our present.
And it's part of our future.
I hope we can change some of it,but we need to know this in
order to to know who we are aswell.
So is there, Louise and Armando,is there any other thing you'd
(38:09):
like?
I know we want to leave sometime in the next few minutes to
see if there's any questionsfrom our audience, but is there,
and even from the team at themuseum, I'd love to hear from
the museum about theirexperience when they opened it
up.
I believe, I think it's Jeff, Ican't remember the name of the
man, excuse me, the exhibitsteam.
I remember when he called me andhe saw these, he's like, these
(38:30):
are amazing.
He goes, I want to do thisjustice.
And I just thought it was justsuch careful care of the museum
team and and understanding it.
So they really wanted to knownot only the photographer's
vision, but the curator's visionand staying true to that.
And if you get a chance to lookat their virtual museum, please
do, because Armando reallydesigned a show also to these.
(38:51):
Again, it's not.
chronological it's notgeographical but it's it's so
that these photographs talk toeach other i think that's how
you referenced it armando
SPEAKER_02 (39:00):
that's that's correct and so that so the
photographs talk to each otherbut then you as the viewer gets
to join in the conversation andso one of the things that that i
hope you'll do it if you go seethe show either virtually or in
person is you join theconversation uh don't try so
(39:20):
much to figure out what's goingon on as a viewer, but
experience the pieces, join theconversation with the various
groupings, the way the MichiganMuseum has put it together, and
be part of it.
And that's what's gonna make itcome to life for you.
(39:41):
And I think that's gonna make itexciting and deep.
SPEAKER_04 (39:50):
I appreciate that.
Louise, any comments before wesee if there's any?
Are there any?
And we'll get questions.
If not, I'll make some questionsof my own.
SPEAKER_01 (39:59):
I think I've said what I can say.
So I turn it over to the Q&Athat is to follow here, because
15 minutes will be eaten uprather quickly.
And I'm always the fly on theperennial wall.
And I'm curious to hear whateverybody else has got to say.
So thank you so much for theinvitation.
SPEAKER_04 (40:20):
While we wait for if there's any questions, again,
what I can do is I'd love totell you that, again, just to
remind you that the show is onview in Saginaw, Michigan at the
Marshall and Frederick SculptureMuseum through January 15th.
It then travels to Californiawhere it'll be on view February
26th through June 26th in anexpanded version.
(40:42):
What I'm going to do also isthat that'll be a rename.
What you're seeing in Michiganwill be a one time opportunity
to see it, but it will be movingforward and we really appreciate
that.
Louise, as I'm going forwardtoo, I'm just curious, what are
(41:03):
your next steps, if you will?
I know that this, I think thearchival project we're talking
about as well, what would youlove to see happen with your
work and what would you hope tosee?
Hold on.
You're muted.
I'm sorry.
I had muted you because therewas some background.
Try it again.
You're still muted.
(41:28):
Louie, you're muted.
There you go.
Okay.
Sorry, I muted you because therewas background noise and I
apologize.
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
That's okay.
That's all right.
In terms of what I'm looking at,I'm very thankful to both you
and to Armando to becollaborating once again, as we
are.
I think we make one hell of ateam.
The vision that both of you havein regards to my work, I find to
(41:55):
be quite an honor that you seewhat many are beginning to see
now.
And this exposure helps tosolidify the interest in my
work.
The 5,000 to 7,000 photographicimages that I have here at the
(42:16):
house is the next project, asyou mentioned, for us to to
scan, to digitize, and to expandthe exhibition narrative of my
work.
If I'm gonna live 200 yearsbeyond now through my
photographic work, as Armandosays, then I think it's
important to document andarchive my work.
(42:41):
I'm gonna be 79 years old inJanuary of this coming year.
And so I expect to live a fewmore years beyond that.
And so this would be animportant part of the next major
project.
And so again, that's what I'mworking towards.
And I thank you, Melissa, as thevision doer, the vision enabler
(43:10):
of my work and Armando as myvision therapist, as I like to
say, because it gives greatermeaning to my work.
And so I'd like to hear morefrom everybody else in terms of
what their impressions are ofthe work.
SPEAKER_04 (43:26):
I have a question actually that I was posed and I,
and I realized that it, that weneed to give some context
because not a lot of people knowabout Davide Ferro Siqueira's
work and why The pointing is sosignificant.
And the question is, what'sgoing on with the photo about
David Ferraziqueras?
Why is he pointing or how wasthe context about what's going
(43:46):
on?
And before we talk about what'sgoing on, I think it'd be nice
if you could explain about theartist as a muralist.
He was considered Tres LosGrandes, the three great
muralists in Mexico, along withDiego Rivera, who was a
household name because of awoman.
I'm sorry.
Yay, Frida.
UNKNOWN (44:06):
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
He's a household name in Michigan.
In Detroit, we have the Detroitmurals at the Detroit Institute
of Arts.
So Diego Rivera and Frida arewell beloved in Michigan as
well.
SPEAKER_04 (44:22):
Well, my feeling is that Siqueiros was kind of
lesser known for many yearsbecause he was communist and
people, it was not, they didn'twant to talk about it, you know.
So Diego Rivera and Clemente,Jose Clemente Orozco got a a lot
of play, right?
And as you mentioned, the muralsin Detroit, Rivera, but also in
(44:43):
Los Angeles, it became importantbecause of Siqueiros.
Siqueiros also was, and maybethis is something both Luis and
Armando can address, Siqueiroswas kind of like to me, one of
the iconic symbols of theChicano civil rights movement.
Would you say, am I saying thatcorrectly, Armando?
And would you, you're on mutetoo.
So Luis, maybe what you could dois talk about like, why
(45:05):
Siqueiros is significant.
And then Luis can then, couldyou answer the question of
what's happening?
I think the pointing and what hewas saying to you, because I
think that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
If I may, Siqueiros was important to the artists in
the movement.
And this is a movement, theChicano movement is a movement
that very much involves artists.
unlike other movements, artistswere very much part of the
movement, and one of theirheroes was Siqueiros, in part
(45:38):
because of the whitewash thatoccurred of America Tropical.
And then the other mural, whichLuis discovered, and he can talk
about that, the workers atChouinard School was also
whitewashed.
So there was only one muralleft, and that was It was in a
(45:59):
private home.
It is now at the Santa BarbaraMuseum of Art.
But that's where the connectionis between Siqueiros and the
movement.
And I'll let Luis talk about theimage, where that image comes
from originally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
The image of him pointing is, as I referred to
earlier, it's a self-portraitthat he did of himself when you
look at his work.
At the time that I wasphotographing him, I had no idea
that he was doing what he wasdoing.
And I come to find out later onas I begin to research him.
(46:39):
I'm not an art historian.
I had very little artsbackground.
I'm self-taught in terms of myphotographic work for the most
part.
And Mr.
Kedos opens up a door to me.
He is the inspiration of themural movement in this country
and internationally in terms ofoutdoor muralism.
(47:01):
He plants the seed in 1932 herein Olvera Street for the future
of muralism that grows out ofhis work as the mural begins to
reappear through layers ofwhitewash paint.
We're currently involved withtrying to resuscitate the first
(47:23):
meeting first mural that he didat Chouinard Art School called
Street Meeting or Mitín Obrero.
I'm currently working with DaveTorgé and Armando Vázquez Ramos
and Gonzalo Santos and a numberof other people in regards to
this particular mural andrecovering it and the building
itself to create a cultural artscenter.
(47:44):
That's a whole other project.
That's a whole other case ofwine.
It's an involved story, but Thatfinger pointing by Siqueiros at
me is an iconic image that Icome to later find out as I
begin to research him.
And then I work with the GettyConservation Institute in
(48:06):
regards to the conservation ofAmerica Tropical, which took
some 20, 25 years for it tohappen.
So again, it's an involvedhistory.
It's a novella, a veryinteresting novella as well.
SPEAKER_02 (48:19):
Yeah, the image comes from a 1947 painting,
self-portrait called El CoroLenazo.
There you go.
Because Siqueiros not onlyfought in the Mexican
Revolution, but then went toSpain and fought in the Spanish
Civil War.
And so he...
10, 11 years later, he paintsthis self-portrait called El
(48:43):
Coronazo, and he reprises thatimage in the photograph that
Luis took.
unbeknownst to me at the
SPEAKER_04 (48:57):
time.
Well, and a lot of his work hasthat perspective.
It all has that, you know, it'sthat it's the idea.
I love that.
And that that iconic piece youmentioned really kind of puts
that in there.
And I think that's what's reallyinteresting.
The more that I learned duringthe course of working with Luis
on the Siqueiros project that wedid with the exhibition, it was
just so rewarding to learn andto share so much more about this
(49:21):
artist.
And and I'm so glad that becauseof the work that especially that
louise did with the exhibitionand moving forward people do
know more about this artist andhe is really a great one of the
great ones and i i loved hiswork and i was really glad that
we had that exhibition I thinkthis has been really wonderful.
(49:42):
I'm curious if there's anyoneelse on the museum team that has
any thoughts or if they have anyof their favorite pieces of
people that have seen it thatyou might want to ask Luis about
if there's or just any curiosityabout anything else about how
the show's going in Michigan andso forth.
SPEAKER_03 (49:59):
Yeah, I wanted to kind of jump off of what Armando
was talking about with theorganization and organization of
the images and how they theyinvite a new conversation.
And sometimes we in the museumworld, even, you know, taking a
(50:25):
step further and really, so whatwe're trying to do is
intentionally encourage thatconversation.
And we came up with a series ofprompts, maybe around 10 to 12
prompts that ask people to, wecall them reflexiones, to
reflect on and comment back ontopics you know, um, what, um,
(50:48):
maybe what the years they'reseeing in the images or what it
reminds them in present day.
Cause again, it is just sotimely and, um, or what people,
um, you know, what movements arethey involved in and what things
are people passionate about andwhat, how are they, um, carrying
forward their movements andpassions.
Um, and then we're going to takethat and, um, and make it into
(51:12):
an interactive installationwhere they can, um, clip them up
with clothespins likephotographs waiting to dry in
the processing.
And so we have a little fun withit.
But really, we want people tonot just reflect internally, but
to have those conversations withother people and carry the
(51:35):
movements forward and reallytake action, be it personally in
their personal lives orcollectively in the community.
And so we were just so thrilledto bring this to our community.
The community in Saginaw hasactually quite a large
significant Chicano populationas compared to other places in
(52:02):
Michigan and across the country.
I think, you know, over 20% ofour population in Saginaw.
So it's quite significant.
And so we were so happy to bringthis not only to to kick off our
Hispanic Heritage Month, but tocontinue on.
And like I said, theseconversations and topics will
(52:23):
continue on.
And wow, just each and everyphotograph on their own, they
just stop you in your tracks.
And the prints aren't overlylarge, oversized prints, but
they have an oversized impact.
And we hung it just a slightlylittle bit lower usually might
(52:45):
hang a show.
So you're really just face toface with these people.
You feel like you're, you'rereally just right there with
them in whatever spaceenvironment they are in.
And you, you do, you arethinking, what are these people
thinking?
Where, where are they now?
Where are they then?
And some, it is, it definitely,yes, you know, has that
(53:11):
documentary element to it, thishistoric element, but it really
you know, does what art, goodart does.
And it really, you know, justit's arresting.
So we're thrilled to have it.
We're so thrilled to have youall on this call today to get to
(53:32):
meet you virtually, Luis,Armando, and Melissa.
And I've had lots of phoneconversations as well.
But we are getting fabulousfeedback.
Again, we're on a universitycampus.
And so seeing the students comethrough, we're right across the
hall, actually, from thephotography studios and dark
(53:54):
rooms on campus.
And so we're excited to see whatstudents and community members
are going to do with theircameras in response to this.
But everyone's really enjoyingthe show.
So thank you for sharing it withus.
Thank you for letting us bringit to Michigan.
Thank you very much.
And thank you for this time.
(54:14):
Thank you.
Any final words from Armando orLuis?
SPEAKER_02 (54:17):
No, I think just to thank Luis from my perspective,
just to thank Luis for the eyethat he has and had for the
honesty of the work.
And that's what I think makesthem timeless is there was an
honest effort to capture amoment in time and that moment
(54:39):
became timeless.
SPEAKER_01 (54:41):
I want to thank Armando.
I want to thank Luis.
Melissa and the Marshall andFrederick's staff.
A big hug, a big abrazo toeverybody.
And thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (54:54):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_04 (54:56):
Adios to everyone.
Thank you so much.
We are
SPEAKER_00 (54:59):
saying goodbye to you all.
I'm still submerged in fog.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (00:19):
Welcome to Mused, LADU.
I'm excited to bring you thisepisode of a conversation that I
had last year with photographerLuis C.
Garza and curator Armando Daronwhen we had an exhibition of
Luis's work in Michigan.
I bring you the conversation.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_03 (00:39):
My name is Megan McAdow.
I am the director of theMarshall M.
Frederick Sculpture Museum,located on the beautiful campus
of Saginaw Valley StateUniversity.
You see our museum with thesculpture garden.
We are home of America's publicsculptor, Marshall M.
Fredericks.
We have over 200 of hissculptures on view.
(01:00):
For those who may not know thatthey know Marshall Fredericks,
he made the famous Cleveland WarMemorial, also called the
Fountain of a The LeapingGazelle on Belle Isle in
Detroit, Michigan, amongst otherplaces was one of his very first
commissions.
Then also the Spirit of Detroit,which is one of his most iconic
(01:22):
works.
So he was very prolific doingmonumental size sculpture based
out of Michigan, but foundacross the world.
And then we also do four to sixspecial exhibitions each year,
included related programming andevents.
And that's what brings ustogether today.
So we'll be talking about ourcurrent special exhibition, Time
(01:46):
Refocused, photographs by LuisC.
Garza.
Okay, so today we have theartist himself, a photographer,
Luis C.
Garza.
I'm going to read a briefintroduction before you get to
hear directly from him.
Luis C.
Garza is an independent curatorand photojournalist who recorded
(02:09):
the tumultuous social events ofthe 1960s and 1970s, often on
behalf of La Raza magazine, thejournalistic voice of the
Chicano movement.
His images captured theattention of many and led to his
multifaceted career indocumentary production,
including Emmy Award-winningtelevision series Reflexiones or
(02:33):
Reflections, arts marketing,including Luis Valdez's Zoot
Suit, events coordination, LAFreeways, arts consulting with
the Getty ConservationInstitute, and exhibition
curators.
So, yes, a very multifacetedcareer.
(03:19):
at the Autry Museum of theAmerican West.
That elevated his work as acurator, and he went on to
collaborate with the UCLAChicano Studies Research Center
at the Autry on the blockbusterexhibition La Raza.
And it's also had a blockbusterbook as well, which is fabulous.
(03:40):
And that was for the Getty'sPacific Standard Time LA LA.
His 2009 exhibition TimeReflections photographs by Louis
C.
Garza, was recently revived andreorganized by Richardson Banks
for a national museum tour,which launched at the Marshall
and Frederick Sculpture Museum,where it's now on view again
(04:02):
through January 15th.
I mean, yeah, January 15th,2022.
Oh my gosh, almost there,people.
Okay, and we also have with usthe curator of this fabulous
exhibition, Armando Durong, whohas added He has avidly been
collecting Chicano art since1981.
His extensive collectionincludes over 660 artworks and
(04:27):
over 1,000 publications andbooks related to Chicano art.
It represents the last 40 yearsof Chicano art in Southern
California and reflects his ownChicano perspective on
collecting Chicano art.
Jerome curated Garza's debutexhibition of black and white
prints in Los Angeles at the KGBGallery, which was on view from
(04:52):
October 2009 to January 2010.
It was later displayed at theLatino Art Museum and California
and from January throughFebruary 2010 and at the Mexican
Cultural Institute of LosAngeles from March through April
2010.
And we are so glad to have it atour museum.
(05:14):
Talk about another multifacetedcareer.
Melissa Richardson Banks is thefounder of Cause Connect LLC,
which is a Los Angeles basedfirm that offers consulting
services related to themarketing, sponsorship and
corporate social responsibilityneeds of companies, nonprofit
organizations, and communityprojects, primarily in the areas
(05:37):
of arts and culture,environment, education, and
volunteer engagement.
She is also an independentcultural producer.
She manages and marketscommunity festivals, concerts,
art salons, museum exhibitions,and other cultural happenings.
We will also put a link again toher website where you can get
(05:58):
the book and a lot moreinformation about all of the
things that she does it'sfantastic and so I do actually
want to turn it over to Melissa
SPEAKER_04 (06:11):
Megan, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here and toactually present this program,
at least in terms of Luis andArmando, who are good friends of
mine.
And we share a similar historyin terms of actually how we all
came together.
And it's so rewarding that thisshow, Time Refocused,
photographed by Luis C.
Garza, happens to be really thenext step of what I'm going to
(06:34):
be doing with my business, whichis now in 20 years.
It started right after 9-11.
So I'm starting a new pro seriesof efforts that will really be
showcasing artists traditionallyunderrepresented in museums but
also particularly women andlatinos men and so i'm super
excited about this at you andthat we partnered on this
(06:55):
project to bring it to michigani'm thrilled um so i've worked
with luis and i've known him forwell over a decade longer than
that 15 years or more and we allcame together i think armando
and luis met at the same timearound we did whether know if
that's the same thing but butbasically I'm so thrilled that
we are got we've gotten to thispoint and I really want to start
(07:18):
by I know Louisa's storyintimately so I I'm going to
help guide the conversationbecause I I know he's maybe new
to you and others here so we'llshare but I'm very interested in
this particular show because itwas his debut as a photographer
and what you may not realize isthat he had many of these images
housed and archived at his homefor years years until he brought
(07:42):
it to light.
And under Armando's amazingcuration back in 2009, they
worked together to bring this,to showcase the work that Louise
has done.
It's very important.
And I'm curious, and I wouldlike to start it off by really
focusing on Louise.
I'll have some questions forArmando as a curator as well.
But I am, Louise, I would lovefor you to talk about in this
(08:04):
context, like when did youbecome a photographer and why
did you take the time off?
I guess too, there's that timeperiod, you know, in terms of
your career.
career.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
Thank you very much for the questions, and thank
you, Marshall Frederick'sSculpture Museum, for hosting
this exhibition.
It's an honor, and the revivalof the exhibition is really a
(08:34):
rebirth.
It's a renacimiento, as Melissahas taken it and has reshaped it
to travel, probably.
Thank you very much.
(09:01):
something that just was totallyunexpected.
And again, I repeat, it's anhonor to work with Melissa once
again and with Armando incurating, re-curating the
exhibition as it travels acrosscountry.
And Melissa and Armando willtell you where it will finally
(09:22):
reside in 2022.
In regards to how I came aboutphotography, again, to me, that
was serendipity.
I picked up the camera.
Bye.
by accident, although there areno accidents.
And I started photographing.
And I started with a KodakBrownie.
(09:44):
And I was impressed by my ownimages.
So then I gravitated to a 35millimeter Pentax camera, which
began the seriousness of myphotographing work, although I
had no direction at all, as BobDylan would say, no direction to
roam.
(10:04):
And so I It was a series ofevents that led me into
photography as a dedication andas a life choice.
And that comes about throughbeing parachuted into the
Chicano movement.
(10:25):
And I met a man by the name ofEd Bonilla who flipped my
worldview.
I was desperate.
I had moved out from New York toLos Angeles.
I had no work, no real friends.
And so he looked at me and hesaid, you're from New York.
(10:46):
I said, yeah, I'm from New York.
And he said, you're PuertoRican.
I said, no, I'm not PuertoRican.
I'm Mexican.
Although, yeah, I'm Puerto Ricanby osmosis says I'm Jewish, I'm
Irish, I'm Polish, I'm all thethings that I grew up with in
New York City.
And he says, a Chicano from NewYork.
Now, I had never heard the wordChicano.
(11:08):
And so I thought to myself,Chicano, Mexicano, close enough.
I said, yeah, I'm a Chicano.
And he said, okay, you got thejob.
I said, great, what's the job?
He said, you're going toorganize the people.
I said, how do you do that?
He says, well, you come tomorrowat nine o'clock and you bring
that camera that's strappedaround your neck and we're going
(11:29):
to start.
And so he introduces me to theChicano movement, to a number of
people at La Raza magazine.
At that time, Joe Russell andRaul Ruiz and Father Luz and a
whole bunch of other people atLa Raza.
beginnings of the Chicanomovement, 1968, 69.
And that's how I beganphotographing.
(11:50):
That's how my comes about.
I find a purpose in life and Istart photographing seriously.
And so that's the beginningsteps.
It's a worthy of many bottles ofwine, but I'll cut it there and
we'll move on to the nextquestion.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (12:11):
Well, I think what's interesting though, Louise, is
that there is this time that youwere actively photographing.
And I think really, to me, themost iconic image that I knew
you from, and I think Armando,we both were introduced to you,
is the image that you capturedof David Afero Siqueiros in
(12:33):
Budapest, Hungary.
Now, both Armando and I knowthis story to heart, but there
are many that don't know thisstory.
And I think, and who Siqueirosis, again, in context of Diego
Rivera and Jose Clemente Orozco,I think it's important to kind
of share that very quickly.
And then how did you meet him?
And then what What happened?
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
That's a wonderful piece of history because that's
also one of the major turningpoints in my life and my
dedication to both photographyand to the work of Siqueiros in
Los Angeles, which is how theexhibition that you and I worked
on came about.
I was all of 25, 26 years old atthe time, photographing at La
(13:20):
Raza.
Into La Raza magazine comes atall, lanky gentleman by the
name of Irving Sarnoff, who haspassed away, but he was the
director of the Peace ActionCouncil, who was organizing a
delegation of Americans totravel to Budapest, Hungary via
(13:41):
the Soviet Union, the WorldPeace Conference that was being
held in Budapest, Hungary.
And so I take flight from L.A.
to New York, meet up with myfamily, who is just, what are
you, Russia?
What are you going to Russiafor?
And so it's a whole scandalwithin the family.
(14:01):
That's, again, another subplotto the novella.
So I land in Moscow.
We go to Budapest.
And...
Siqueiros is part of the Mexicandelegation attending the World
Peace Conference.
When he finds out that there's aChicano in the American
delegation, which is about 25,30 people from various
(14:25):
organizations, nationalorganizations here in the United
States, he calls for a meeting.
I'm escorted the next morning tohis table where he stands up,
opens his arms, and he says,compañero.
Cuéntame de este movimientoChicano.
And he gives me a big hug and hesits me down between him and his
(14:47):
wife, Angelica Arinal, andRaquel Tibol, and a number of
the other Mexican delegates, andwe begin the conversation.
And he begins to ask me aboutthis Chicano movement and what
is it about.
They've been hearing informationin Mexico in regards to it.
You've got to remember, this is1971.
(15:08):
And so...
It's Brezhnev, the head of thechairman of Russia, and it's
Nixon, president of the UnitedStates.
It's the height of the Cold War,Vietnam War, women's movement,
Chicano movement, Blackmovement, all these various
(15:30):
movements.
It's a worldwide turmoil.
And so I, with my camera, youknow, would get together with
Siqueiros in the evenings, Andwe'd be smoking and drinking
vodka and talking art andrevolution.
At least he was.
I was in way over my head.
But with every shot of vodka, Igot bolder.
And so we'd be talking about LaRaza and the Chicano movement.
(15:56):
And he would be questioning meabout his murals, America
Tropical in particular, which...
Today is, ironically,metaphorically, and
realistically, the 89thanniversary of the debut of
America Tropical at OlveraStreet.
So I think it's quite auspiciousthat we're having this
(16:18):
conversation today.
But those images that I capturedof Siqueiros were part of...
an invitation that he gave tome.
And these are the partingphotographs that I take of him
and his wife, Angelica, after wecome out of an art school where
he gave a presentation.
(16:38):
But Siqueiros forever changed mylife.
He tapped me on the foreheadlike E.T., and it just
transformed me.
And when I returned back to LosAngeles, I dedicated myself to
the work of Siqueiros andfinding out more about him.
And That's how it comes about.
So in this shot that you see ofSiqueiros pointing at me, he's
(17:03):
actually doing the self-portraitthat he did of himself in a
painting that he did.
So it's, again, it's a seriesof...
confluence intersections andmeetings and things like that,
which forever transform yourlife and your photography and
(17:25):
the work that you do.
So he sets me upon a path thatjust reinforces everything that
I'm doing and that I'mdedicating myself to.
Okay, so I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
I'm going to bring in Armando here in just a
minute, but I wanted to set thestage because I really am
impressed and interested howArmando curated the show and
actually, which really, I thinkthe book may have been in some
ways curated first, or at leastthe sequence, which led to the
book and how it's presented, notonly in the book, but in its
execution at, in Michigan.
(17:57):
And I wanted to point out thatjust to kind of set the stage
here, Louise, as a photographerhas been, you know, again, born
in the Bronx, moved to LosAngeles, found himself involved
in East LA and Los Angeles,generally in the Chicano civil
rights movement, which by theway, was at this, you know,
civil rights movements,generally the women's rights
movement, the civil rightsmovements around the same time
(18:19):
period in Los Angeles inparticular, and also in Texas
where I'm housed now as well.
But there was the Chicano risingand uprising and continuing the
movement to today.
But, but then he also mentionedagain, the Budapest and the
world peace conference.
And And as part of that, he alsowent to what was the then USSR,
(18:39):
and he'll talk about that.
So there's three.
What's really great about thisexhibition, and Armando will go
in depth with this, and then I'dlike to go back to the archives
too.
But Armando, can you, and I havesome images that maybe the two
of you can talk about.
I've got some representativeimages here to share.
How did you take these threedifferent cities or bodies of
(19:01):
work, this style, which for me,I think with Louise, He has gone
from beyond a documentaryphotographer and a
photojournalist to really an artphotographer because they're
artfully done.
Would you address a little bitof that?
And if you'd like me to sharesome images with that, well,
just let me know and I'll changethe screen as we go.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
Sure.
And first of all, thank you forinviting me to be here.
You know, when I first saw theseimages in 2004 and I was
immediately taken by not so muchthe documentary aspect of them,
which I was somewhat familiarwith, especially the Chicano
(19:42):
movement, but the artisticaspect of them.
Something really was compellingabout them because beyond what
they were intended for, whichwas basically photojournalism.
Luis was, as part of the La Razamagazine photo team, was just
documenting what was going on inthe community.
(20:04):
But I saw these images andrealized that there was
something else.
It was like an accidentalaesthetics that emerged from his
work, which was very compelling.
And a couple of years passed andFrom when I first saw them, as I
said, in 2004 until 2009, whenwe actually mounted the show.
(20:27):
But the show was designed toshow that despite the fact that
there are three differentplaces, it's kind of the same
story.
And the narrative that people,the viewer can compose by
looking at the images as they goback and forth through one city
(20:49):
and one movement to another cityto something else that's going
on, like in Budapest or back inthe Bronx in New York with the
Young Lords, you can show thatimage first.
If you want.
But so what was happeningbetween the three of them, there
was a relationship between allof all of the various events of
(21:12):
various cities and that that Isaw was was we being weaved
through them and that theindividual photographs could
speak to each other.
across the cities.
In other words, we don't haveall the images to show you here,
(21:35):
but when you see the show,whether it's online or in
person, what I hope you'll findis that the relationship across
the cities and across themovements was still there.
It didn't matter that one thingwas happening and maybe they
didn't even know about eachother because these are people
who are caught up in a time andare involved in movements of
(22:00):
various sorts.
But then, bringing it forward to2009, what was even more
interesting was that they seemedtimely.
They were timeless.
And that's why I came up withthe title of Time Refocused,
(22:20):
because they were just as timelyin 2009 as they were in, say,
2007.
I mean, excuse me, 1971.
They were just as compelling tome.
And I think now in 2021, theyare equally compelling.
And that's why the show can bebrought up 11 years later or 12
(22:42):
years later.
And it's as fresh today as itwas, as the images were when he
was taking them in 1968, 69, 71,75.
They're just as timely.
And that's what was socompelling.
And it was so great to beinvolved in that process.
SPEAKER_04 (23:06):
Maybe what I can do, because I have about five images
here, and you can see I'm notreally great about this
PowerPoint, so I hope I'm doingit okay.
But maybe, Luis, you can justkind of briefly at least let
people know what city or alittle bit about each of these
real quickly here, and then wecan go.
And I'd like to talk a littlebit also about your body of work
generally and then also our nextsteps as well.
(23:27):
So this particular piece, canyou talk about what's on the
screen?
I hope it's on thereeffectively.
And what country is this?
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
This This particular image of the Young Lords Rally
in the South Bronx is actuallythe neighborhood that I was born
in.
I come from the South Bronx.
My family is from Mexico, SouthTexas, who migrated to New York
City in the 1920s.
And so I was born and raised inNew York City in the South
(23:55):
Bronx.
And this particular street is139th Street.
So the backdrop of thosebuildings was part of me
revisiting my youth, my past,And I was invited by the Young
Lords to come and hang out withthem, which I did.
So this is just one of a seriesof rolls of film that I took of
(24:18):
the Young Lords as I hung outwith them.
So the composition of it is onewhere...
Well, I'll speak to that later.
That's the aesthetic part thatArmando is talking about.
As Armando is my visiontherapist, Melissa is my vision
(24:40):
enabler.
And so between Armando andMelissa, which I am blessed to
have as friends and colleaguesand associates, I've come to
realize my work in a whole otherway that I never did before
because I never– I neverinterpreted my work outside of
(25:02):
looking at and thinking aboutthe imagery.
Anyway, that's a whole otherstory.
Go to the next.
Go to the next shot.
This is a thread bearer.
This is Tashkent, Uzbekistan.
in the Soviet Union or the thenSoviet Union.
(25:25):
We were invited after theBudapest Conference.
I went back to Moscow and thenthey invited some of us to join
them.
And so I spent a week.
What turned out, a two-week tripturned out to be a one-month
trip as I traveled around theSoviet Union.
And this was in a particularfactory where, again, it's part
(25:51):
of a series of photographs thatI took.
So each image really is just areflection of many, many more
other photographic works.
What Armando did in turn interms of his curatorial work was
weaving all the various storiesas he just expressed.
So go on to the next shot.
(26:14):
Ah, Sueño.
Sueño, this is WhittierBoulevard, East Los Angeles.
And this is a blind man.
who is taking a nap on a busstop.
And that bus stop is thebeginning of bus stop muralism
paintings by Chicano artists.
(26:34):
And so when you look at theimage in the background, the
full image, it says, hacenalteraciones, we make
alterations.
And it speaks to itself in termsof...
What is he imagining?
Armando can speak to theinterpretation of it.
(26:59):
He has a particular fondness forthis particular image.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
And I do, if I may, I really love this image because
I see a man dreaming perhapsabout his youth, about when he
was young and strong.
And that's what's beingreflected on the park bench.
And you can't see it on theslide, but on the original
(27:24):
image, it does say, we makealterations.
And it was just so poignant tome.
It was practically a conceptualpiece of work.
in which the sign is tellingyou, we can alter you, we can
change you, we can bring youback to that youth, and that's
what he's dreaming of.
And so the three, the sign, theold man, and the young man
(27:51):
portrayed on the bus, are in asense in conversation.
Something's going on there.
And so this is one of the imagesthat I really, just really
speaks to me.
And that tells me that this ideaof this accidental aesthetics is
(28:11):
very much alive in Luis's work,as well as some of the other La
Raza photographers.
But this image I think reallycaptures what I'm talking about
when I talk about accidentalaesthetics.
simple aesthetics.
SPEAKER_04 (28:26):
I'm going to go to the next slide.
I'll let you guys talk aboutthis.
This is, again, and for purposesof this display, some of these
have been detailed so you cansee them, but there's so much
more, as Armando was mentioning,when you see it in person and,
of course, online.
But this is an iconic image andalso resulted in another
project.
Maybe you both can discuss that.
I actually have one of thesemyself, so you can talk about
(28:50):
that.
So I know Armando does, too.
So let's talk about thisparticular project.
these boys and where they arelocated and a little bit about
your latest project with this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Armando, continue with the description of this
particular photograph.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Well, I think it's important to note that, first of
all, I think, Luis, you can talkabout where it is, and then I'll
talk about why I think it's suchan appealing photograph across
time, why it was so iconic rightfrom the beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
these two young men again this is just one image of
a series of photographs thatwere taken this is Aliso Pico
housing project in East LosAngeles and it's 1972 I believe
that I took this photograph andI'm a street photographer so I
(29:51):
would pick different spots inLos Angeles or wherever I was
and I'd walk and go intoneighborhoods.
And so I came across this groupof young men that were at the
children's monkey bars in thebackground that you see.
And I just...
(30:11):
Started photographing them.
And they looked at me.
They're in their mid-teens.
And they're exemplary of barrioyouth with the hat and the
Pendleton and the shirts and thehairdo and all of that.
(30:31):
And...
It became iconic from thebeginning.
Corky Gonzalez of the Crusade ofJustice out of Denver, Colorado,
used it as the book cover for YoSoy Joaquin, I Am Joaquin, his
epic poem.
And that was the first time itcame into a book publication.
(30:56):
Prior to that, it was only animage in La Raza magazine.
And then since that time, it'sbeen used by any number of
people and number ofpublications.
So it also became one of theiconic images within the La Raza
exhibition that the Autry did in2017, which was part of the
(31:20):
Pacific Standard Time show.
And it became a street banner ofall things.
I damn near crashed my car whenI first saw it waving in the
streets of Los Angeles.
And it generated a lot offeedback and also helped to
(31:42):
propel more of a recognition ofmy work, which is what La Raza
exhibition did for not onlymyself, but my fellow
colleagues.
When we put on this exhibition,which is a whole other story,
but I'll hand it over toArmando.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Well, you know, as I said in the in the catalog, I
said that the young men soenigmatic of the barrios of East
Los Angeles pose proudly theirinnocence fleeting.
but still discernible.
And I think that's what I reallylove about the image is that,
yeah, they're acting tough, youknow, especially the guy with
the hat, uh, wearing hisPendleton.
(32:22):
And as you notice, I'm wearingmy Pendleton.
I'm from that era.
So I wear Pendletons.
Um, and, uh, and yet you couldsee, right.
You know, you could still seethe innocence of these young
boys.
And of course now, uh, 40 yearslater, 50 years later, we're
here wondering, you know, whathappened to them?
(32:45):
You know, and that's true withvarious of these images in this
show is you wonder what happenedto some of the individuals and
the movements that they wereinvolved in and the struggles
they were involved in.
But certainly with this image,you wonder what happened to that
youth?
(33:05):
What happened to that bravado?
to that innocence, what happenedto the rest of their lives.
And they're gonna be, they'reprobably in their 70s at this
point, if they're still with us.
The image, of course, that Luishas now transformed into a
serigraph with a very lightcoloring to each of the images.
(33:35):
They're individually colored andthey're really beautiful.
And when he first showed them tome, I was trying to choose one
and I realized that I couldn'treally choose one because
something was happening.
And what was happening was thatthe images, as much as they were
(33:56):
the same image, were differentand they were differentiated by
the coloring, the very lightcoloring that Luis did on each
of the Pendletons and the hat,especially, we're
differentiating the images intosomething else.
And so I asked him to do one, Ibought two of them and put them
(34:19):
together and called it DoubleHomeborns.
And later on, I realized thatwhat he had done with it
essentially was do what AndyWarhol did with, say, double
Merlin or double Elvis, etcetera.
And that in that way, we said.
taken the imagery into adifferent level.
(34:44):
And it's a wonderful piece thatI have in my office currently.
But this image, I think, will bejust as fresh 100 years from
now.
It'll seem just as poignant,just as compelling 200 years
from now.
And that's what I love about it.
UNKNOWN (35:06):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (35:07):
I'm going to stop sharing on the screen because we
have the image here, but I wasgoing to say, you know, Louise,
you...
From 71 to, let's say again,2004, when you first met me too,
I think you first got to knowArmando better.
I think you might've known himbefore that.
But what I think is reallyinteresting is that you have
(35:33):
this archive of images that haveyet to see the light of this
world, if you will.
I mean, you have the 35 imagesthat are in Michigan that have
been shared in Los Angeles andin Southern California.
And now on this tour, but youhave five, we were talking the
other day, you have 5,000.
images from this time periodthat are an archive that we're
(35:59):
wanting to bring to light tothis world.
I mean, there's so much depth towhat you've done.
We've just really not even hitthe tip of the iceberg.
We've hit the tip of the tip ofthe tip of the tip of the tip.
And there are so many storiesthat can be told from this.
And that's what's reallyexciting to me because there's
just so much.
And some of the pieces that areon view in Michigan, by the way,
are the original silver gelatinfiber prints.
(36:21):
Now we had to reprint a few ofthem from the original
negatives.
But what's really exciting isthat what you see in Michigan,
so those of you privileged tosee the show in Michigan through
January 15th, you are seeing notonly this fine art, this
documentary photography as wellas fine art, but in addition,
you're seeing artifacts in manyof these cases.
(36:42):
These are those beautiful printsfrom that time period.
And I think what's exciting too,as we move on from Michigan,
we're going to take it toRiverside, California.
and we've actually unearthedanother 35 that Armando and
Louise have carefully chosen todouble the show.
And then some, it's going to beone of these, like the old
(37:03):
shampoo commercial, you know,kind of doubles and doubles and
doubles.
And I think this is what'sreally exciting is to be able to
reveal this story.
And as Armando and Louise andothers have shared, this story
is relevant today as it wasyears ago and it continues and
it's just an opportunity forcontinued storytelling.
And I think that's what's sobeautiful about unearthing a lot
(37:25):
of these things and starting toget it back in the world.
And which is one of the reasonswhy I wanted this to.
come to life again.
And there was this wonderfulopportunity to partner with
Megan and the team in Michiganat the Marshall M.
Fredericks Museum.
I'm grateful for that becausethey really had the foresight
and just to look at this andsay, this is what we need to
(37:46):
tell this story.
We want to be a part of it.
And we want to learn more aboutthis story because it's not just
a Southern California story.
This is an American story.
And this is part of our historyas part of our present.
And it's part of our future.
I hope we can change some of it,but we need to know this in
order to to know who we are aswell.
So is there, Louise and Armando,is there any other thing you'd
(38:09):
like?
I know we want to leave sometime in the next few minutes to
see if there's any questionsfrom our audience, but is there,
and even from the team at themuseum, I'd love to hear from
the museum about theirexperience when they opened it
up.
I believe, I think it's Jeff, Ican't remember the name of the
man, excuse me, the exhibitsteam.
I remember when he called me andhe saw these, he's like, these
(38:30):
are amazing.
He goes, I want to do thisjustice.
And I just thought it was justsuch careful care of the museum
team and and understanding it.
So they really wanted to knownot only the photographer's
vision, but the curator's visionand staying true to that.
And if you get a chance to lookat their virtual museum, please
do, because Armando reallydesigned a show also to these.
(38:51):
Again, it's not.
chronological it's notgeographical but it's it's so
that these photographs talk toeach other i think that's how
you referenced it armando
SPEAKER_02 (39:00):
that's that's correct and so that so the
photographs talk to each otherbut then you as the viewer gets
to join in the conversation andso one of the things that that i
hope you'll do it if you go seethe show either virtually or in
person is you join theconversation uh don't try so
(39:20):
much to figure out what's goingon on as a viewer, but
experience the pieces, join theconversation with the various
groupings, the way the MichiganMuseum has put it together, and
be part of it.
And that's what's gonna make itcome to life for you.
(39:41):
And I think that's gonna make itexciting and deep.
SPEAKER_04 (39:50):
I appreciate that.
Louise, any comments before wesee if there's any?
Are there any?
And we'll get questions.
If not, I'll make some questionsof my own.
SPEAKER_01 (39:59):
I think I've said what I can say.
So I turn it over to the Q&Athat is to follow here, because
15 minutes will be eaten uprather quickly.
And I'm always the fly on theperennial wall.
And I'm curious to hear whateverybody else has got to say.
So thank you so much for theinvitation.
SPEAKER_04 (40:20):
While we wait for if there's any questions, again,
what I can do is I'd love totell you that, again, just to
remind you that the show is onview in Saginaw, Michigan at the
Marshall and Frederick SculptureMuseum through January 15th.
It then travels to Californiawhere it'll be on view February
26th through June 26th in anexpanded version.
(40:42):
What I'm going to do also isthat that'll be a rename.
What you're seeing in Michiganwill be a one time opportunity
to see it, but it will be movingforward and we really appreciate
that.
Louise, as I'm going forwardtoo, I'm just curious, what are
(41:03):
your next steps, if you will?
I know that this, I think thearchival project we're talking
about as well, what would youlove to see happen with your
work and what would you hope tosee?
Hold on.
You're muted.
I'm sorry.
I had muted you because therewas some background.
Try it again.
You're still muted.
(41:28):
Louie, you're muted.
There you go.
Okay.
Sorry, I muted you because therewas background noise and I
apologize.
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
That's okay.
That's all right.
In terms of what I'm looking at,I'm very thankful to both you
and to Armando to becollaborating once again, as we
are.
I think we make one hell of ateam.
The vision that both of you havein regards to my work, I find to
(41:55):
be quite an honor that you seewhat many are beginning to see
now.
And this exposure helps tosolidify the interest in my
work.
The 5,000 to 7,000 photographicimages that I have here at the
(42:16):
house is the next project, asyou mentioned, for us to to
scan, to digitize, and to expandthe exhibition narrative of my
work.
If I'm gonna live 200 yearsbeyond now through my
photographic work, as Armandosays, then I think it's
important to document andarchive my work.
(42:41):
I'm gonna be 79 years old inJanuary of this coming year.
And so I expect to live a fewmore years beyond that.
And so this would be animportant part of the next major
project.
And so again, that's what I'mworking towards.
And I thank you, Melissa, as thevision doer, the vision enabler
(43:10):
of my work and Armando as myvision therapist, as I like to
say, because it gives greatermeaning to my work.
And so I'd like to hear morefrom everybody else in terms of
what their impressions are ofthe work.
SPEAKER_04 (43:26):
I have a question actually that I was posed and I,
and I realized that it, that weneed to give some context
because not a lot of people knowabout Davide Ferro Siqueira's
work and why The pointing is sosignificant.
And the question is, what'sgoing on with the photo about
David Ferraziqueras?
Why is he pointing or how wasthe context about what's going
(43:46):
on?
And before we talk about what'sgoing on, I think it'd be nice
if you could explain about theartist as a muralist.
He was considered Tres LosGrandes, the three great
muralists in Mexico, along withDiego Rivera, who was a
household name because of awoman.
I'm sorry.
Yay, Frida.
UNKNOWN (44:06):
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
He's a household name in Michigan.
In Detroit, we have the Detroitmurals at the Detroit Institute
of Arts.
So Diego Rivera and Frida arewell beloved in Michigan as
well.
SPEAKER_04 (44:22):
Well, my feeling is that Siqueiros was kind of
lesser known for many yearsbecause he was communist and
people, it was not, they didn'twant to talk about it, you know.
So Diego Rivera and Clemente,Jose Clemente Orozco got a a lot
of play, right?
And as you mentioned, the muralsin Detroit, Rivera, but also in
(44:43):
Los Angeles, it became importantbecause of Siqueiros.
Siqueiros also was, and maybethis is something both Luis and
Armando can address, Siqueiroswas kind of like to me, one of
the iconic symbols of theChicano civil rights movement.
Would you say, am I saying thatcorrectly, Armando?
And would you, you're on mutetoo.
So Luis, maybe what you could dois talk about like, why
(45:05):
Siqueiros is significant.
And then Luis can then, couldyou answer the question of
what's happening?
I think the pointing and what hewas saying to you, because I
think that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
If I may, Siqueiros was important to the artists in
the movement.
And this is a movement, theChicano movement is a movement
that very much involves artists.
unlike other movements, artistswere very much part of the
movement, and one of theirheroes was Siqueiros, in part
(45:38):
because of the whitewash thatoccurred of America Tropical.
And then the other mural, whichLuis discovered, and he can talk
about that, the workers atChouinard School was also
whitewashed.
So there was only one muralleft, and that was It was in a
(45:59):
private home.
It is now at the Santa BarbaraMuseum of Art.
But that's where the connectionis between Siqueiros and the
movement.
And I'll let Luis talk about theimage, where that image comes
from originally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
The image of him pointing is, as I referred to
earlier, it's a self-portraitthat he did of himself when you
look at his work.
At the time that I wasphotographing him, I had no idea
that he was doing what he wasdoing.
And I come to find out later onas I begin to research him.
(46:39):
I'm not an art historian.
I had very little artsbackground.
I'm self-taught in terms of myphotographic work for the most
part.
And Mr.
Kedos opens up a door to me.
He is the inspiration of themural movement in this country
and internationally in terms ofoutdoor muralism.
(47:01):
He plants the seed in 1932 herein Olvera Street for the future
of muralism that grows out ofhis work as the mural begins to
reappear through layers ofwhitewash paint.
We're currently involved withtrying to resuscitate the first
(47:23):
meeting first mural that he didat Chouinard Art School called
Street Meeting or Mitín Obrero.
I'm currently working with DaveTorgé and Armando Vázquez Ramos
and Gonzalo Santos and a numberof other people in regards to
this particular mural andrecovering it and the building
itself to create a cultural artscenter.
(47:44):
That's a whole other project.
That's a whole other case ofwine.
It's an involved story, but Thatfinger pointing by Siqueiros at
me is an iconic image that Icome to later find out as I
begin to research him.
And then I work with the GettyConservation Institute in
(48:06):
regards to the conservation ofAmerica Tropical, which took
some 20, 25 years for it tohappen.
So again, it's an involvedhistory.
It's a novella, a veryinteresting novella as well.
SPEAKER_02 (48:19):
Yeah, the image comes from a 1947 painting,
self-portrait called El CoroLenazo.
There you go.
Because Siqueiros not onlyfought in the Mexican
Revolution, but then went toSpain and fought in the Spanish
Civil War.
And so he...
10, 11 years later, he paintsthis self-portrait called El
(48:43):
Coronazo, and he reprises thatimage in the photograph that
Luis took.
unbeknownst to me at the
SPEAKER_04 (48:57):
time.
Well, and a lot of his work hasthat perspective.
It all has that, you know, it'sthat it's the idea.
I love that.
And that that iconic piece youmentioned really kind of puts
that in there.
And I think that's what's reallyinteresting.
The more that I learned duringthe course of working with Luis
on the Siqueiros project that wedid with the exhibition, it was
just so rewarding to learn andto share so much more about this
(49:21):
artist.
And and I'm so glad that becauseof the work that especially that
louise did with the exhibitionand moving forward people do
know more about this artist andhe is really a great one of the
great ones and i i loved hiswork and i was really glad that
we had that exhibition I thinkthis has been really wonderful.
(49:42):
I'm curious if there's anyoneelse on the museum team that has
any thoughts or if they have anyof their favorite pieces of
people that have seen it thatyou might want to ask Luis about
if there's or just any curiosityabout anything else about how
the show's going in Michigan andso forth.
SPEAKER_03 (49:59):
Yeah, I wanted to kind of jump off of what Armando
was talking about with theorganization and organization of
the images and how they theyinvite a new conversation.
And sometimes we in the museumworld, even, you know, taking a
(50:25):
step further and really, so whatwe're trying to do is
intentionally encourage thatconversation.
And we came up with a series ofprompts, maybe around 10 to 12
prompts that ask people to, wecall them reflexiones, to
reflect on and comment back ontopics you know, um, what, um,
(50:48):
maybe what the years they'reseeing in the images or what it
reminds them in present day.
Cause again, it is just sotimely and, um, or what people,
um, you know, what movements arethey involved in and what things
are people passionate about andwhat, how are they, um, carrying
forward their movements andpassions.
Um, and then we're going to takethat and, um, and make it into
(51:12):
an interactive installationwhere they can, um, clip them up
with clothespins likephotographs waiting to dry in
the processing.
And so we have a little fun withit.
But really, we want people tonot just reflect internally, but
to have those conversations withother people and carry the
(51:35):
movements forward and reallytake action, be it personally in
their personal lives orcollectively in the community.
And so we were just so thrilledto bring this to our community.
The community in Saginaw hasactually quite a large
significant Chicano populationas compared to other places in
(52:02):
Michigan and across the country.
I think, you know, over 20% ofour population in Saginaw.
So it's quite significant.
And so we were so happy to bringthis not only to to kick off our
Hispanic Heritage Month, but tocontinue on.
And like I said, theseconversations and topics will
(52:23):
continue on.
And wow, just each and everyphotograph on their own, they
just stop you in your tracks.
And the prints aren't overlylarge, oversized prints, but
they have an oversized impact.
And we hung it just a slightlylittle bit lower usually might
(52:45):
hang a show.
So you're really just face toface with these people.
You feel like you're, you'rereally just right there with
them in whatever spaceenvironment they are in.
And you, you do, you arethinking, what are these people
thinking?
Where, where are they now?
Where are they then?
And some, it is, it definitely,yes, you know, has that
(53:11):
documentary element to it, thishistoric element, but it really
you know, does what art, goodart does.
And it really, you know, justit's arresting.
So we're thrilled to have it.
We're so thrilled to have youall on this call today to get to
(53:32):
meet you virtually, Luis,Armando, and Melissa.
And I've had lots of phoneconversations as well.
But we are getting fabulousfeedback.
Again, we're on a universitycampus.
And so seeing the students comethrough, we're right across the
hall, actually, from thephotography studios and dark
(53:54):
rooms on campus.
And so we're excited to see whatstudents and community members
are going to do with theircameras in response to this.
But everyone's really enjoyingthe show.
So thank you for sharing it withus.
Thank you for letting us bringit to Michigan.
Thank you very much.
And thank you for this time.
(54:14):
Thank you.
Any final words from Armando orLuis?
SPEAKER_02 (54:17):
No, I think just to thank Luis from my perspective,
just to thank Luis for the eyethat he has and had for the
honesty of the work.
And that's what I think makesthem timeless is there was an
honest effort to capture amoment in time and that moment
(54:39):
became timeless.
SPEAKER_01 (54:41):
I want to thank Armando.
I want to thank Luis.
Melissa and the Marshall andFrederick's staff.
A big hug, a big abrazo toeverybody.
And thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (54:54):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_04 (54:56):
Adios to everyone.
Thank you so much.
We are
SPEAKER_00 (54:59):
saying goodbye to you all.
I'm still submerged in fog.
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