September 16, 2021 • 43 mins
Sonya Fe is the featured artist in this episode of the inaugural “Son Cuatro: In Conversation” podcast series co-hosted by art advocate Cheech Marin with Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum; Norma Chairez-Hartell, Curator at Las Cruces Museum of Art; and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks of CauseConnect, the producer and moderator of this series who also manages Marin's notable Chicano art collection.
Check out more in-depth articles, stories, and photographs by Melissa Richardson Banks at www.melissarichardsonbanks.com. Learn more about CauseConnect at www.causeconnect.net.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_06 (00:00):
Welcome
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
to Son Cuatro, In Conversation.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum, a.k.a.
RAMM.
It's leading up to the openingof the Cheech Marin Center for
Chicano Art and Culture, aka theCheech.
I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks,and today there are four of us
in conversation with artistSonia Fane.
Todd Wingate, who's the Directorof Exhibitions and Collections
at Riverside Art Museum.
(00:38):
Norma Chavez-Hartel, who's acurator at Las Cruces Museum of
Art.
And of course, Cheech Marin,entertainer, filmmaker,
comedian, friend, art collector,art advocate, champion.
Now, before we start, some ofyou know already that I've
worked with Cheech for abouthalf of his 40 years of
collecting Chicano art andchampioning Chicano artists.
And it's because of him that Ibecame a collector myself.
(01:01):
Margaret Garcia reminded usrecently that she's the one who
introduced Cheech to Sonia.
So Sonia emailed me samples ofher work and I shared them with
Cheech and he ultimatelypurchased six artworks from her.
And she and I conversed forprobably a good year, I guess.
And we had some books that Iwanted to give her.
And so we ended up arranging tomeet in a parking lot in Eagle
(01:23):
Rock, California.
And it was just so great becauseI gave her copies of her
catalog.
And of course, in pure SoniaFaye style, she's like, oh, I
got some other things to showyou.
So she opened up the trunk ofher car and she showed me all
these different artworks.
She's industrious.
I think my father would havecalled her a fellow hustler like
me.
That was his affectionatenickname for me.
And she's confident, she'screative, she's talented.
(01:43):
And we're so excited to have herhere today.
I'm going to hand this over toTodd.
Todd, tell us a little bit aboutSonia.
SPEAKER_04 (01:49):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
So Sonia shares that she grew updrawing with chalk and crayons
on the cement floor of herfamily's East Los Angeles home,
an activity that her sevensiblings, her Jewish American
mother, and her Mexican Americanfather fully encouraged.
Each night, a new masterpiecewas created and then mopped
clean by her mother.
At 13, Sonia won her first artscholarship to attend a summer
(02:11):
program at Otis Art Institute inLA.
She then went on to receive aBachelor of Arts at Art Center
College of Design in Pasadena.
Her beautifully executedpainting often focus on the
plight of women and childrenduring the pandemic to protest
the horrible treatment ofmigrant children being locked in
cages.
Sonia created eight large-scalemurals in Las Cruces, New
Mexico, each 50 feet long, todocument this travesty.
(02:33):
You can view these online atwww.soniafe.com.
Let's see.
Sonia's work has been exhibitedin museums and galleries
throughout California, acrossthe nation, and in Mexico and
Japan.
Her solo exhibition, Are YouWith Me?, is on view now now
through July 24th at the LasCruces Museum of Art in New
(02:53):
Mexico.
Previously, she's had soloexhibitions at the Morris Grave
Museum in Eureka, California.
Her work can be found innumerous private and public
collections, including Cheech's,the CCH Pounder Collection, the
Carnegie Art Museum in Oxnard,and most notably the Smithsonian
American Art Museum inWashington, D.C.
Sonia's taught at the College ofthe Redwoods in Humboldt County,
(03:16):
California.
She's published children'sstories and a drawing book in
his the co-founder of PublishingChildren's Stories, a program
for elementary schools thatintegrates literacy, art, and
technology.
Sonia is also the art editor anda writer for Joaquin Magazine, a
California-based publication,and she's been published in
numerous and other magazines.
So my first question is forCheech.
(03:40):
Cheech, what attracted youoriginally to Sonia's work, and
what led to your acquisition ofthe La Llorona series?
SPEAKER_03 (03:47):
I was always in search of what the real story of
La Llorona, what was the realstory about it?
Because all I ever saw was apicture of La Llorona,
Lloroning, you know, justcrying.
And it's always a scary face.
And there was kids and there wasa river, you know, but every
major artist, well, noteveryone, but many major
artists, Chicano artists that Ifirst met had done a painting of
(04:09):
La Llorona, Carlos Almaraz,Frank Romero, a lot of different
people.
And so, and they had a differentversion of it.
But nobody ever gave me the Youknow, like, how did she get
here?
What about the kids?
And where are they going now?
And so finally, I was shown, Ithink it was five or six panels,
six panels by Sonia, in whichshe told the whole story of La
(04:32):
Llorona.
And I was really grateful forthat because, oh, cool.
Now I know the whole story.
What really intrigued me was howwell they were done.
Remarkable drawings.
You do a lot like a great LaLlorona and people know who you
are.
And these are the best I hadseen by far.
And they were like, just scary.
Walt Disney always said thatthere was two emotions you
(04:54):
couldn't fake, laughter andfear.
And so when you saw these, like,these are scary and you can see
what this woman has gonethrough.
And when you come and see this,you'll see the whole picture.
But what really intrigued me washow well they were done, how
well they were painted anddrawn.
And I said, this is a remarkabletalent here.
And so I started getting intouch with Sonia.
(05:16):
And it was a long conversationover a long period of time.
I'm a working actor.
I have to be working in order tocollect art.
So I was trying to gather enoughmoney to get all of these.
And I think I bought them like acouple here or one here, then a
book till I had the whole set.
But the remarkable pieces, Imean, it's really remarkable.
And so I started looking at someof Sonia's other work, which are
(05:40):
equally as remarkable.
And she has a real facilitypainting, but real facility for
telling a story.
And that really attracted myattention.
So I started And I found outthat she had a bunch of friends
because she's been in theChicano art from OG times, you
know.
The paintings were remarkable.
I mean, really, reallyremarkable.
(06:01):
When I finally met Sonia, as aremarkable personality as well,
it was really, really alive andinterested and engaging and
funny, very funny.
So what are you working on now?
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Okay, the murals I was working on, there was eight
of them, 50 feet each.
And the reason why I did it, Iwasn't gonna worry about money
and people's permission.
I just went out there and I wasfree.
I said, I'm gonna put what Iwant up there because they told
me don't be political.
So I said, how can I bepolitical without them knowing
it, okay?
(06:36):
But what I did was I did myfirst mural.
I was so upset with the childrenbeing thrown in cages.
And then, okay, and then there'schickens that are thrown in
cages, okay?
So I just decided to call themural Chicken and Children Do
Not Belong in Cages.
But my main goal was that thechildren shouldn't be in cages.
You should never do that tokids.
So I did a black and white muraland I had the emotions of the
(07:02):
children.
I didn't show so much them in acage because a lot of people are
drawing children in cages and weget the point.
What I was after was thesolitary, the emotional level of
these kids, the pain they werefeeling Thank you.
And that's what I went for.
Then the second mural I did wascalled Politos y Coyotes.
(07:24):
And we all know the story aboutthat.
And so I showed little childrenriding on the backs of coyotes
and being taken here and there.
It just makes me angry thatsomeone can separate children
like that.
I mean, there has to be anotherway to solve this border
problem.
Okay, my third picture.
Okay, I have to look.
Okay, well, this was dedicatedTo the seven, the 14 children
(07:51):
who were dead, who died whilebeing locked up.
I have an image of a woman.
She's Mother Earth and her armsare outreach like this and
behind her you would see 14little angels you know floating
and I have crosses here andthere so you know I'm talking
about death and as I'm speakingabout that I'm getting chills I
got the idea from another artistin Las Cruces she did the uh
(08:14):
painting but she didn't finishit and they white it out so I
said I want to borrow your ideaand she says go ahead so I did I
Picasso we still okay and thenum there was another one I have
a little fajita She's bendingdown, she's broken, and she has
a big bag on her back and it canbe full of apples, potatoes,
(08:35):
cotton.
And when I'm showing her, she'sworking real hard.
She's, she's, just working realhard, and she's probably 40, but
because of the type of workshe's doing, she looks like
she's 90.
So anyway, she's bending down,and there's cactus, and there's
a beautiful flower.
She's going to touch this cactusbecause she knows in life, as
(08:55):
old as she is, there's alwaysbeauty someplace.
And then in this particularmural, I have my husband, our
girl Vasquez, as a little boyway in the back, sitting there
against a big bag of cottonbecause in life, in real life,
he was a migrant worker also.
So I put him in there.
And then, let me know when youget tired.
I got a lot of these.
Oh, and then I did the LaLlorona, the one, the story.
(09:19):
I did it all on the wall, butnot in the sequence that you
have in your book, just the mainglimpse of it.
So we know that.
And then my last story wascalled School Plays.
And I have children sittingthere outside and they're
looking at a cross and they'regoing to their grandfather's
(09:39):
graveyard.
There's a little lizard thereand it's like, oops.
And then I have two little kids,the school play messing up.
They don't know what they'resaying.
So I'm just trying to put thelife of children, give them some
respect.
So you have seven or eight otherbrothers and sisters?
I have three brothers and four
SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
sisters.
Okay.
Wow.
So do you think that's where itcame from?
I
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
was raised in a housing project and it was
always children all around.
I enjoy growing kids becausewhen I'm doing it, I feel like a
big kid.
I feel like I can see theirminds.
I can get into them and reallyfeel what they're feeling.
I don't think that part of mehas ever changed when I was
growing up.
I mean, I know I'm a woman nowand I still have the heart of a
child.
(10:22):
And I mean, I can be adult andbe responsible, but I can let
that playfulness come in.
That's why I'm successful in aBecause I let the kid's heart
reside in me.
And that opens me up for newexperiences.
That's very important for me asan artist.
I kind of see myself, maybe,okay, I hope no one throws books
at me or booze.
(10:44):
But remember that movie,Amadeus?
Mozart was that hystericallaugh.
And the other man's looking athim.
How could this guy play all thisbeautiful music and act like
that?
I know when to be serious.
When you have it under control,you laugh.
SPEAKER_03 (10:57):
I was wondering about how you came up with the
technique.
You're using the combination ofall those different materials,
gesso and chalk and paint andwatercolor and drawing.
How did that evolve?
That
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
kind of evolved in high school.
We used a lot of ink and I justgot tired of just using plain
ink.
When I start doing artwork, Idon't try to do a finished
product when I'm exploring thetechnique.
I'm interested in learning aboutthe technique.
The finished product will comeand I wasn't ready for the
finished product.
So I was more or less exploringAnd then my technique with the
(11:31):
wax and oils that I use, believeit or not, I went to Mexico and
I saw Tamayo's work and he usesthat industrial sand.
I don't know that.
I didn't want to go to the storeand bring home a big bag of sand
because I was living on top of ahill.
I didn't have a car.
I wasn't going to haul that.
I was thinking I got to usesomething because I want that
texture.
And so I start reading aboutDorland wax, which gives me
(11:54):
layers of oodles and oodles oftransparencies and makes
sometimes you can make yourpaint and look like it's a wall.
I play with a lot of things.
And when I was going to school,a lot of the art teachers liked
me because I wouldn't dofinished products.
Like I said, I was testing thetechnique, the material.
How do you know to do a finishedproduct if you never use the
materials?
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
That's a good explanation of it, too, because
you see it evolving in yourwork.
It gets finer and finer, and thepainting has more depth to the
paint.
And so what is about yourfascination with monkeys?
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Oh, well...
I'm going to tell you guyssomething.
You're all going to laugh.
I always wanted to marry a greatwhite hunter.
I wanted to go to Africa.
I wanted to live there.
I was just fascinated by theAfrican culture and the little
monkeys.
I like their little figures, howthey move.
You never know.
(12:52):
Much like kids, you never knowwhat they're going to do next.
They're spontaneous and theirstructures.
I like their structures.
They're very human-like.
SPEAKER_03 (12:59):
I heard you were talking about them and about the
monkeys and you said you hadgone down to Costa Rica.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
They're real cute too.
It's like you can draw them.
They have a lot of humanqualities, but it's not like
drawing a person.
SPEAKER_03 (13:09):
The combination of figures and monkeys and, you
know, it's somewhat kind ofreminiscent of Frida Kahlo when
she had some monkeys in her, butthey were larger.
These are like little monos, youknow, they're kind of just,
they're all over the place.
And I really love the way youdo, but the way it really shows
up in the, in the depths of thepaint, you know, the
transparency and the luminosityof the paint, it really works
(13:32):
well with them.
That's a great combination, man.
So are you going to go for moreeducation or keep painting?
SPEAKER_00 (13:39):
I'm going to keep painting and I get my education
by keep painting.
Each time I paint, like mostartists, you discover something
new.
And I don't want to keep doingthe same thing because I want to
keep, as I say, I want to keepmy heart open so I can have new
experiences.
Some artists, I'm not knockingthem.
Some are comfortable staying inone genre.
I don't want to do that becauseone time I had a show in East LA
(14:01):
at the South Health Graphics,and I had my drawings and
paintings there, and they didn'twant my paintings.
They said, looks like twodifferent artists.
I said, well, why would I wantto paint the way I draw and vice
versa?
Two different materials.
So that's, you know, thematerials are different.
They land for different kind ofexecutions.
SPEAKER_04 (14:20):
That provides an interesting segue.
So you've talked a little bitabout the inspiration behind
your work, but would you talkabout sort of because I find
your drawings very differentthan your paintings and I
imagine your drawings there's adirect line evolutionary line
(14:41):
between the concrete drawings onthe floor and your drawings as
soon as I heard that about yourupbringing and your drawing on
the floor that That made senseto me instantly.
So can you talk a little bitabout the evolution of your work
and how the drawings and thepaintings intersect?
(15:01):
And then I also have a questionabout your backgrounds.
I find your backgrounds and yourpaintings just extraordinary.
And I want to know whether...
as you're thinking, as thispainting's coming together for
you in your head, are thebackgrounds part of that initial
process or is the initialfigures first and then the
backgrounds sort of fill inafterwards?
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
You wanna know why I did those drawings at the time I
did them?
Again, I was upset about themigrant kids in cages and I was
comparing their lockdown to thepandemic.
People are in their homes,they're complaining because they
can't go to the store and gettheir cup of coffee and their
(15:46):
ice cream.
And some can't go to the gym.
And these poor kids are thrownin a cage.
And, you know, big deal, icecream.
I mean, it was just two completeopposite wants.
And I just thought it wasbizarre.
So that's why I drew what I did.
And...
And of course the pandemic washorrible.
(16:06):
It was like being in a cage, butwe didn't have as bad as those
children.
Those children couldn't even geta sanitary napkin, the young
girls.
I mean, it was horrible.
And then I learned, I went downto Fort Bliss to protest and I
found out there were 5,000children detained at Fort Bliss
and they get the people there,like, you know, whoever's
(16:28):
running the show, they get$175per bed.
So why in God's name would theywant to find relatives and
parents for these kids whenthey're collecting all that
money?
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
You know, it's a thing that I've noticed is the
Chicana painters, the womenpainters of this genre, are much
more outraged by things that arehappening like that than anybody
else.
And they immediately translateit into paintings.
And I'm really affected by that.
And they're the strongestreactions.
(17:01):
And they're not afraid to, youknow, have that be
representative of their art, youknow, because it's a real touchy
world out there right now.
But I mean, if we don't listento our artists who are the
avatars of the coming times,we're cutting ourselves short
(17:22):
there.
But it's really amazing that thewomen have the strongest
reaction to any of the paintingsand reaction to what's going on
politically and culturally rightnow.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Because women give life and they see those not as
only their child.
All the children are theirchildren.
I paint children.
I only had one son, but the onlyreason why I did is I needed to
work.
I needed to paint.
I mean, if I had eight kids, Iwouldn't paint and we wouldn't
be having this conversation.
but no as a woman you you givebirth you give life and you do
(17:57):
that with your art too andsomething's gonna disturb me I
have a mouthpiece on me I'msurprised I still have all my
teeth I made a I made a lot ofpeople angry, but I'm still
going to be me.
And I'll just duck when hestarts.
I had a couple of those too.
So everything I'm telling youand Jess too is part of my art.
(18:19):
You know, if we just separatethe art and say, well, I'm an
artist.
I go to school here.
I learned this and then I followthis art.
No, it's all life.
Everything you experience comesonto that canvas.
Goofy things, the mean things,all my loves, all of it's all in
that canvas.
is
SPEAKER_03 (18:36):
How was your relationship with all the other
OG Chicano painters when youwere at Mexicano Art Center or
whatever?
Was that good, bad, indifferent?
Were you included, excluded?
I remember John Valdez.
Valdez.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
When I first met him, he wanted to get a studio
together.
I thought that would be nice,but I cannot work with other
artists.
I'm too consuming.
I consume the space.
I don't mean I'm a, you know,show offering, but I like my
space and I create myatmosphere.
And so somebody's over therepainting, it's going to either
(19:09):
affect me or I'm going to, itjust, I have to be total, uh,
poodle, if that's the rightword.
I'm trying to learn Spanish too.
No, but I met a lot of niceartists out there.
Some of the artists that don'tget any credit when they talk
about Chicana artwork, you know,I get tired just hearing the,
um, the four horsemen of theapocalypse.
(19:32):
There's other artists like, uh,Manuel Cruz, who was a, A
diamond in the rough.
He was this older man.
He had it rough, but he had goodideas.
He had very good ideas aboutChicano art.
He just had a hard way ofgetting his point across.
And then there was anotherartist, Joe Cervantes, who's
(19:52):
like Van Gogh.
You know, he's very, very goodartist.
And those two I remember most.
And of course, there wereartists coming in and out.
I didn't meet Margarita Garcia.
But I met Margaret throughFacebook.
That was, you know, a couple ofyears ago.
But I met a lot of artists,Charles Amaras.
And, you know, let's face it, alot of artists have big eagles.
(20:16):
That's fine.
You need a big eagle to survivebecause if someone says boo to
you, you're going to be crushed.
Now, I don't care what peopletell me.
I had good training at home.
My father, he was a mean person.
And after him, nothing scared meexcept if you have a gun, you
know, aimed at me.
but they better pull the triggerand make it quick.
I don't want to think about it.
(20:36):
But other than that, I had goodtraining from my father and
upbringing.
And I met a lot of good artists,a lot of, you know, great
artists, good artists and crazyartists.
And we're all there.
We're all there trying to createsomething for this world.
And there's plenty of space forus all except my studio.
(20:58):
It has to be my own space.
Todd, you got another question?
SPEAKER_04 (21:01):
I'm interested in where your drawings and your
paintings intersect for you.
Because I think you made astatement earlier about the
gallerist saying, you know, yourdrawings and your paintings look
like two different painters.
And I don't think they do, butI'm interested to know for you
how they intersect.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
The chalk drawings on the floor.
As I got older, I startedremembering the feelings I had
with chalk.
How you can blend stuff.
So that led me to my...
drawings with ink and chalk andgesso, mixed medium.
And it was a combination of justworking it, working it until
something appeared, somethingfelt good, until it worked.
(21:42):
The question, I think you askedme, how did it come to be with
my paintings?
To me, they don't intersectbecause they're two different
mediums.
And I believe artists have manypersonalities.
They don't want to admit it.
As I say, when I'm drawing, I'mtrying to get a different thing
going.
I want a different effect oreffect.
(22:04):
My paintings is completelydifferent.
It's a different medium.
I'm going for softness in mypaintings.
My drawings are more for hittingyou in the gut.
They're They're more for angeror things that are happening in
the world.
Because I noticed that formyself, if I was painting these
drawings that make me angry, Ibecome my paintings.
(22:26):
And I, you know, I really don'twant to live in a world where
I'm constantly fighting witheverybody in life, you know,
being like an activist.
We need activists, but Icouldn't live that kind of life
because I'd be, why are youdrinking that?
Don't you know, in Africa,they're this and that.
Why are you wearing this?
You can't enjoy life, you know?
So what I'm doing, my paintings,I want to show something
(22:47):
beautiful, but yet if you keeplooking, you're going to find a
dark thing in there, somethingthat's going to make you think.
My paintings are for thinkers.
They're not for people who justwant pretty things over the
couch.
All intelligent people buy mywork.
SPEAKER_03 (22:59):
I find both your drawings and your paintings
really beautiful and reallydistinctly different.
Your paintings, it took me alittle while longer to kind of
get in depth with them because Ididn't see a bunch of them at
first.
But then I started seeing moreand more and I go, oh, I see how
they're related.
I see how that technique isworking and that paint gets
thicker and thinner.
And there's a lot of layers inthere that, you know, that
(23:22):
painters discover forthemselves.
You know, I don't know how, youknow, you discovered that, but I
talked to a lot of painters andthey always talk about layering,
you know, until they get exactlythe tone they want.
It's almost like playing aninstrument, you know, or a
guitar or a violin.
The only thing that'sdistinctive about a musician
really is their tone, you know,what their tone sounds like.
(23:45):
Because you can immediately heara guitar player, oh, that's
Carlos Santana, Keith Richards,and that's his tone.
And you can immediately identifyit.
And I find that with yourpaintings now, the tone, what
stands out for it to me.
And it's also subtle at the sametime.
You know, and I always followthat.
Wow, that's an interestingdynamic combination.
You know, they're subtle and inyour face at the same time.
(24:07):
You know, you have to thinkabout your images a lot, you
know, because they look like,oh, OK, there's a woman with a
monkey, you know, but it meansso much more than that when you
look at them, especially throughthe prism or the lens of that
technique.
You know, that's really whatbrings it to the fore.
And now you have your own voice.
So which do you prefer now?
(24:28):
Do you prefer drawing orpainting?
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Both.
Like right now, I painted a dollface a long time ago and I'm
looking at it now.
I said, oh, now I know what todo with it.
That's the good thing aboutliving with artwork.
You'll see what you need to do.
And then, of course, sometimesyou destroy it by accident.
You don't mean to, but that'show it is for me, art.
I live with it.
I live with it every day.
I create every day and
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
it's just part of
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
my
SPEAKER_03 (24:52):
being.
Do you prefer to work with menor women or a combination of
both?
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Combination of both.
I worked with Judy Bacarestoring murals.
And we had 20 artists out thererestoring.
It was men and women.
It was fun.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Judy Baca and I went to high school together.
Where are you living now?
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
I have a home here in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
And I have three acres at theHoopa Indian Reservation in
Humboldt County.
And my husband and I arethinking of going back there for
a while.
Really?
Because I miss California.
I was born and raised in the...
General Hospital, one year afterMargaret Garcia.
SPEAKER_03 (25:26):
I know that hospital very well.
So what do you want to goforward doing?
What's the next thing that youwant to do?
I
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
want to get into more museum shows.
It's good to have sales, okay?
But it's even better when thepublic sees what you are doing.
I'm getting a lot of goodresponse on this museum show.
I have people writing to me,calling me.
I had some buyers here lastweek.
at my studio and I get peoplewriting and they're like so
(25:59):
overwhelmed and I'm thinking ohI did this because you know you
live with your art it's like atap water you turn it on and off
and you don't think anything ofit but then when people come and
tell you things whoa I did allthis that's pretty good you know
but I don't let it go to my headI'm very down to earth because
as soon as you think you're wayup there somebody kicks you
(26:21):
Norma, do you have a question?
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
I kind of want to ask a question along the lines
with the, you know, your kids incages.
I think that's one of myfavorite thematic pieces that
you have.
And so I know you did some mixedmedia with the pieces and you
focused on the detained migrantchildren, but also COVID and
kind of tied those two together.
And I feel like they'redifferent from the paintings.
(26:46):
And now I know why.
And they're different from, Ithink, the older drawings,
right?
So I was just going to see ifyou could tell us more about the
thematic work and the style.
And I mean, did one inspire theother or, you know, did Las
Cruces inspire that?
I think it did.
But, you know, I just want toknow more about it.
And you did
SPEAKER_00 (27:04):
an excellent job at hanging, Norma.
You did a Beautiful job.
In fact, I'm going to saysomething now.
I've been to other museum showshere in Las Cruces, but this is
the best.
I'm not talking so much about mywork.
It's how you presented it withthe flowers and the colors.
I mean, it's fun to walk into,not a tomb.
SPEAKER_03 (27:23):
I saw you make flowers.
I saw that video.
Those are cool.
They're beautiful.
They were simple to make, butthey were beautiful.
The show was really well hungand it displayed the pieces
very, very well.
I was amazed at how much workyou had produced in that period
of time.
It's a lot of work.
Some painters work every day allthe time and some painters take
(27:46):
a longer time to get fewerpieces out.
I'm particularly drawn topainters who paint all the time
because you can see the progressI've
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
always been fast, though.
Fast with everything.
Sometimes people say, I spend 12hours in my studio, and I tell
them, what, you can't figure itout in four?
SPEAKER_03 (28:04):
You did spend time in juvie, didn't you?
I know it.
Melissa, do you got a question?
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Sure.
Thanks, Cheech.
Sonia, I love you.
You just cracked me up.
I'll never forget when you metCheech and I down in San Diego
at the Museum of ContemporaryArt, and we had just opened the
Popelchuk on a Dose show.
What do you remember?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
I asked him, can we take a picture together?
So we go over there and take apicture, but I told him, I just
don't want to stand there, youknow, shoulder to shoulder and
look at the camera all straightand crazy.
I was listening to a love songto each other.
So we're singing these lovesongs.
He's singing in Spanish and I'mjust, and my husband's back
there with the camera taking allthese great shots.
I mean, it was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_03 (28:48):
It
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
was fun for
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
me.
Some artists are very quiet andsome artists are very quiet.
Not quite, which is just fine,you know.
So what do you think, here's anoff-the-wall question because
you talked about it a little bitbefore, about the balance of
being shown in a museum andcommerce.
How does that balance work foryou, being able to sell
(29:10):
paintings and then being, yousaid it's really more
significant for you to be in amuseum because then everybody
can see your work.
Personally, what does it mean toyou?
I mean, you have to make aliving as a painter, so you like
to sell paintings How does thatwork for you?
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Yes, I love to sell my work.
But when you're having a museumshow, to me, it's like you
arrive.
And the people come to look atyour work, not worrying about
sales.
They're going to look at yourwork for art, for art's sake,
whatever the art is.
This is what makes, to me,civilization grow.
Instead of just, you know, justselling all your work at
galleries.
Now I do that, but now I selljust straight from my studio.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
That leads to a question from me, Sonia.
How has being in the CheechMarine collection affected your
career?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Well, it has given me a lot of clout when you tell
them, oh, Cheech Marine has mywork.
And oh, and all of a suddenpeople stand back and like the
Wizard of Oz, how they say Oz.
And I feel blessed and honoredthat you chose my work because
what you're doing for theChicano art is great.
Nobody was doing that.
In fact, in the beginning in the70s, I met Chicano, a lot of the
(30:16):
artists, They knew they weren'tgonna be shown at the museums on
the West side.
They said, what the hell is it?
We're not going to even do that.
They stuck with themselves andgot their own buildings.
It was a good time.
It was a lively time.
The artists were comingtogether.
And it was almost like theimpressionists, the French
artists back in the day, howthey're all discovering formula
(30:39):
paintings, you know, making thecolors stand out, this and that,
except for Van Gogh.
He wanted to be so much in that.
But anyway, I don't know.
I see myself having a long life.
You know, we can't predict whenwe're going to die or get
horrible diseases.
But so far, And it's, it's anice feeling to know.
Like I was telling Margaret theother day, I feel like we
arrived.
I told Margaret that because alot of women artists, it seems
(31:00):
as though a lot of them are nowgetting museum shows.
We don't have to wait till we're80 years old or 90, you know,
like back in the olden days orbe on a deathbed like poor
Shreya when she finally got anart show.
Gee, you know, but no, I feelvery honored and privileged.
And I want to thank you.
It's a, it's a great thing youare doing.
SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
No, I think, I think you're most, prosperous days are
ahead because people will be nowexposed.
to your work.
And that's the whole purpose ofthis.
You can't love or hate Chicanoart unless you see it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Sometimes when you're working, you don't know
exactly how it's going to turnout.
You play with it and it speaksto you.
And you say, oh, at first I wasgoing to put yellow here, but
you know what?
Blue looks better.
So for me, it's not a set thing.
Unless I'm doing commercial artfor somebody and they want a
portrait, you got to make itlook like them.
Okay, everything's set.
That's easy.
You don't have to think.
(31:52):
And it doesn't matter what youknow about the artist when
you're looking at the artwork.
It's a now.
And that's one thing I I likeabout museum work.
It doesn't really
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
matter what they felt.
You know, it matters what theviewer feels when he's looking
at the painting.
So it's that kind of, you canput titles on it and it's a nice
clue and you can make up yourown story about it.
But I'm more concerned about thetechnique of it.
You know, how did that paintarrive on the canvas or how did
(32:18):
that chalk arrive on the pieceof paper?
And art is that theconversation, you know, and you
get to have
SPEAKER_05 (32:24):
the
SPEAKER_03 (32:25):
conversation as relevant in the conversation as
the artist when you're standingin front of the painting, you
know?
And so, I mean, you can know alot about their previous work,
you know, about work in general,but it's a conversation.
And it goes back and forth.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Like when you go in a museum, I'll just say this
when I was in Europe.
SPEAKER_03 (32:43):
You were in Europe?
SPEAKER_00 (32:44):
When I went there, okay, we know Picasso was dead
and the other artists, a lot ofthem were dead.
But when I was standing in frontof this particular Picasso, I
felt his spirit because he putit all in the canvas.
So his marks, that was his markwhen he was alive.
And so that's the great thingabout museum works.
When you go there and even theartist is dead or gone, not even
around you, their presence...
(33:05):
are in that painting.
And that's powerful.
And that's what I like.
And that's why I like museums.
They get my more shows inmuseums so people can feel that
power, whether I'm there yakkingto them or not.
SPEAKER_03 (33:17):
I would have said that I think that paintings are
alive and they're imbued withthe energy, the creative energy
of the artist.
And they're still alive.
And there's this low hum thatcomes off of them.
And every time you pass them,you're being infected with that
hum, whether you realize it ornot, you know, because it takes,
I don't know how many years foroil paintings to dry even you
(33:37):
know and then that message isthat that worked and because it
because it involves a verysimple technique it's it's hair
on a on a stick and canvas youknow and that takes a long time
to settle in and then there'senergy that comes off of those
paintings they're alive there isa reason why people after
hundreds of years come tomuseums to see them same
(33:58):
paintings because they're stillalive
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
and you know what i noticed you can see ordinary
work or mediocre work and looksgreat on the computer.
You see it in person and thenyou see these great paintings on
a computer and go, oh, I got togo see that.
And when you see it in person,it's nothing like how it looked
on the computer.
It's so much better in person.
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
You have to see paintings in person.
That's...
I mean, that's my philosophybecause, you know, because paint
is such a medium that you haveto see it in person because it's
so deep and has so manysubtleties in it that you can't
get it off a two-dimensional.
It's quantum physics.
I mean, you can explain it thatway.
It has an effect in the realworld and it causes things to
(34:42):
move, you know.
And every time you see a great,great painting, I mean, there's
a reason that people line up 10deep to see the Mona Lisa every
single day of the year becauseit They're getting this buzz,
this hum off it, you know, andit's like going to Lourdes or
something.
And, you know, there's aspiritual connection with it
(35:03):
that is absolutely real.
And even for that littlepainting, you know, that's
amazing.
But it doesn't matter how big itis.
It's what's inside the framethat counts.
We want to see your paintingscome closer to California.
So tell
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
me, when are you coming
SPEAKER_03 (35:17):
to my art show?
What's today?
I'd love to go.
I'm traveling right now.
I want to see those paintings inperson.
So we'll have to set up anothershow for you to bring them.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
You know, I was just looking, that was actually a
question that someone had onthere.
It was for Norma, but reallyit's for this conversation.
The question is, is Sonia's showin Las Cruces going to travel?
And I personally am, I'minterested in seeing it myself
and maybe we can find the rightmuseum.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
But I would love for it
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
to travel.
SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
I'll
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
let you borrow the flowers.
And you have some beautifulpaintings behind you.
I know there's a lot of a thirstfor seeing your artwork.
So I see this luscious, lovelynew behind you and then I see
the wonderful the childrenbehind you as well those
paintings it looks like a lot ofyour paintings lately are quite
you're doing a lot larger work Imean the works that we have that
(36:04):
Cheech has I think I want to saythey're 18 by 24 I can't
remember offhand but thedrawings that you have which are
still pretty good sized drawingsand then the paintings the main
painting in the show that youhave is that four by four or
five six by six it's a big
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
painting I've got several large paintings and
those are I call my museumpieces.
I don't think anyone's going tobuy them for their home, but I
needed to do them.
They're maybe five feet by 12feet and five feet by seven
feet.
This is why I went out there andtackled those walls.
I said, I need room.
I need space.
I want to do something more.
(36:40):
I don't want to own it.
You know, I just go out thereand put the coating on it so no
one messes it up.
But I've always painted largesince 1980 something.
SPEAKER_03 (36:47):
Oh, painters paint large.
Chicanos in general paint large,which is good.
Any other questions from thepeanut gallery?
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
There's one more question, and it was from
Margaret Garcia, and she wasasking, does your experience
working as a single mother playa part in your concern for these
children?
And tell us about how you wereable to get your schooling and
how you had to work to pay yourtuition.
I
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
knew I wanted to go to art school, and I'm in a
housing project, right?
And I knew there's no way inhell I'm going to get a
scholarship because my academicgrades are not that good.
And I hated algebra.
So that messed me up.
As soon as today, I don't thinkI use algebra, but my husband
thinks I do when I'm painting.
So I held down two jobs.
When I was going to high school,I held down a job.
(37:34):
Morning, I was a PBX operator.
Lunchtime, I was working acafeteria.
After school, I was a PBXoperator.
Okay, I graduated from highschool.
I got a job right away and wentto junior college and I worked
that night.
Then after I got my AA degree injunior college, I held down two
jobs, one in the daytime when atnight.
Now, by this time, you mighthave known I wasn't dating.
(37:55):
Okay, there was no room forthat.
In fact, I didn't start datinguntil I was 21, which was good.
I have my reasons.
But anyway, so I just worked twojobs and I saved and saved and
saved.
And I got grants.
I didn't get scholarships.
I've known people with lessertalent who got scholarships, but
because they had good academicgrades, they were rewarded.
(38:19):
Okay, so I remember I wasapplying for this scholarship,
and it was between me andthis...
It was a Vicki Carr scholarship.
It was between me and this otherapplicant.
Well, I knew I wasn't going toget it because the applicant was
a doctor.
So...
I said, well, I'm not gettingit.
So I didn't even try to ask forhelp.
I just got a grant and I worked.
(38:41):
And that's what I did.
I worked everything I got.
Nobody handed me a darn thing.
They handed me advice andridicule.
But in fact, some people tell meyou call yourself an artist.
You can't even draw hands andyou can't.
And I was working at Michael'sOcean Foods one semester when I
was going to art school.
And the owner there told me toquit school and become one of
(39:03):
his full time employees.
And I'm thinking, I'm going tobe flipping fish the rest of my
life.
It's crazy.
You know, knucklehead, justtrying to keep me down.
You know, you little brownwoman, stay in that kitchen.
So anyway, how was him?
So I don't listen to people.
I have a dream and I'll listento critical people.
(39:23):
advise me if it's going to helpme, but if you're just going to
tear me down, I refuse to lookin your mirror and see your
reflection of me.
That's not how I see me.
So I don't, I have a tendency ofgetting off of the tangents.
I talk, talk, talk, but no, Iworked real hard and got myself
through school.
And here's a funny thing.
When I went to art center, Iwent there and brought my
(39:44):
portfolio.
And, you know, you get accepted,you're happy, right?
That didn't happen to me.
I get there and say, oh, wecan't accept you.
I said, why?
Your grades.
I said, well, look at my art.
Well, I'll tell you what, you'llbe on probation.
And one reason why I fought toget in was because I was
bragging to all my friends injunior high.
I'm going to art school.
I'm going to art school becauseI already got my, you know,
(40:07):
degree.
AA degree and I told the ladythat was looking at my portfolio
I can't go back because you knowthe shame of it all you know
going back to junior college soshe told me well okay you can
come you'll be in this schoolwe'll accept you under one
condition I said what's thatyou're on probation when I got
in I was on probation but I gotin so I went home and told my
(40:28):
mother I got good news and badnews what do you want can never
just go there and be happy I gotin you know there's always
something Always something.
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
It was really a pleasure talking to you, Sonia.
Really, I always have fun.
SPEAKER_01 (40:43):
Sonia, thank you so much for joining us and sharing
your story today.
I really appreciate it.
Norma, what a pleasure it is tomeet you and get to know you.
I'm really looking forward toseeing your work as you continue
your curating and stuff.
You did a great show.
I'm just really impressed withthe installation, how you
selected the works, yourthoughtfulness in terms of how
you worked with Sonia's work.
(41:04):
I was just so excited because Ilearned so much more about
Sonia's work because of justeven observing from afar and
then having these conversationswith Sonia as well but it's just
um Sonia you just blow me away Imean really the idea that you
know you have these differentways of expressing yourself and
you're always so creative andevolving and moving ahead and I
(41:25):
really appreciate it thank youthank you thank you and to our
audience please check outSonia's work on our website
www.soniafe.com that'ss-o-n-y-a-f-e.com if you want to
to learn more about theexhibition that's on view in New
Mexico through July 24th, pleasevisit www.lascruces.org slash
(41:46):
1542 slash museum hyphen ofhyphen art.
Now for show notes, links,artwork, images, reference in
this program, you can visitwww.causeconnect.net.
That's my firm's website, but wewill be posting all of that over
to riversideartmuseum.org laterthis summer.
They're getting a new websiteand we're going to be putting
(42:06):
that on it.
Insert Certainly you can learnmore about the Cheech at
www.thecheechcenter.org.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum to support
the Cheech.
And it's made possible throughthe generous support of the
Union Pacific Foundation.
So we thank them.
So adios.
Thank you so much.
This has really been a pleasure.
(42:27):
Cheech, thank you for taking thetime.
Todd, thank you for working withme on this.
Norma and Sonia Faye, keep oncreating, girl.
You are an inspiration.
I'm always laughing hard.
And keep your heart open.
I really love that you saidthat.
Why would you want to paint likeyou draw?
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
Anybody that can possibly walk, fly or swim
there, get there to see thisshow because it's really, really
a great show.
SPEAKER_02 (42:52):
I like the word that you used, Cheech.
It's buzzing.
Like every time you walk throughit, there's like this buzz.
There's this energy.
Bye bye, everybody.
SPEAKER_03 (42:58):
Thanks, Sonia.
SPEAKER_02 (42:59):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
SPEAKER_06 (43:07):
We'll be right back.
(43:38):
Subtitulado por Jnkoil
Welcome
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
to Son Cuatro, In Conversation.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum, a.k.a.
RAMM.
It's leading up to the openingof the Cheech Marin Center for
Chicano Art and Culture, aka theCheech.
I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks,and today there are four of us
in conversation with artistSonia Fane.
Todd Wingate, who's the Directorof Exhibitions and Collections
at Riverside Art Museum.
(00:38):
Norma Chavez-Hartel, who's acurator at Las Cruces Museum of
Art.
And of course, Cheech Marin,entertainer, filmmaker,
comedian, friend, art collector,art advocate, champion.
Now, before we start, some ofyou know already that I've
worked with Cheech for abouthalf of his 40 years of
collecting Chicano art andchampioning Chicano artists.
And it's because of him that Ibecame a collector myself.
(01:01):
Margaret Garcia reminded usrecently that she's the one who
introduced Cheech to Sonia.
So Sonia emailed me samples ofher work and I shared them with
Cheech and he ultimatelypurchased six artworks from her.
And she and I conversed forprobably a good year, I guess.
And we had some books that Iwanted to give her.
And so we ended up arranging tomeet in a parking lot in Eagle
(01:23):
Rock, California.
And it was just so great becauseI gave her copies of her
catalog.
And of course, in pure SoniaFaye style, she's like, oh, I
got some other things to showyou.
So she opened up the trunk ofher car and she showed me all
these different artworks.
She's industrious.
I think my father would havecalled her a fellow hustler like
me.
That was his affectionatenickname for me.
And she's confident, she'screative, she's talented.
(01:43):
And we're so excited to have herhere today.
I'm going to hand this over toTodd.
Todd, tell us a little bit aboutSonia.
SPEAKER_04 (01:49):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
So Sonia shares that she grew updrawing with chalk and crayons
on the cement floor of herfamily's East Los Angeles home,
an activity that her sevensiblings, her Jewish American
mother, and her Mexican Americanfather fully encouraged.
Each night, a new masterpiecewas created and then mopped
clean by her mother.
At 13, Sonia won her first artscholarship to attend a summer
(02:11):
program at Otis Art Institute inLA.
She then went on to receive aBachelor of Arts at Art Center
College of Design in Pasadena.
Her beautifully executedpainting often focus on the
plight of women and childrenduring the pandemic to protest
the horrible treatment ofmigrant children being locked in
cages.
Sonia created eight large-scalemurals in Las Cruces, New
Mexico, each 50 feet long, todocument this travesty.
(02:33):
You can view these online atwww.soniafe.com.
Let's see.
Sonia's work has been exhibitedin museums and galleries
throughout California, acrossthe nation, and in Mexico and
Japan.
Her solo exhibition, Are YouWith Me?, is on view now now
through July 24th at the LasCruces Museum of Art in New
(02:53):
Mexico.
Previously, she's had soloexhibitions at the Morris Grave
Museum in Eureka, California.
Her work can be found innumerous private and public
collections, including Cheech's,the CCH Pounder Collection, the
Carnegie Art Museum in Oxnard,and most notably the Smithsonian
American Art Museum inWashington, D.C.
Sonia's taught at the College ofthe Redwoods in Humboldt County,
(03:16):
California.
She's published children'sstories and a drawing book in
his the co-founder of PublishingChildren's Stories, a program
for elementary schools thatintegrates literacy, art, and
technology.
Sonia is also the art editor anda writer for Joaquin Magazine, a
California-based publication,and she's been published in
numerous and other magazines.
So my first question is forCheech.
(03:40):
Cheech, what attracted youoriginally to Sonia's work, and
what led to your acquisition ofthe La Llorona series?
SPEAKER_03 (03:47):
I was always in search of what the real story of
La Llorona, what was the realstory about it?
Because all I ever saw was apicture of La Llorona,
Lloroning, you know, justcrying.
And it's always a scary face.
And there was kids and there wasa river, you know, but every
major artist, well, noteveryone, but many major
artists, Chicano artists that Ifirst met had done a painting of
(04:09):
La Llorona, Carlos Almaraz,Frank Romero, a lot of different
people.
And so, and they had a differentversion of it.
But nobody ever gave me the Youknow, like, how did she get
here?
What about the kids?
And where are they going now?
And so finally, I was shown, Ithink it was five or six panels,
six panels by Sonia, in whichshe told the whole story of La
(04:32):
Llorona.
And I was really grateful forthat because, oh, cool.
Now I know the whole story.
What really intrigued me was howwell they were done.
Remarkable drawings.
You do a lot like a great LaLlorona and people know who you
are.
And these are the best I hadseen by far.
And they were like, just scary.
Walt Disney always said thatthere was two emotions you
(04:54):
couldn't fake, laughter andfear.
And so when you saw these, like,these are scary and you can see
what this woman has gonethrough.
And when you come and see this,you'll see the whole picture.
But what really intrigued me washow well they were done, how
well they were painted anddrawn.
And I said, this is a remarkabletalent here.
And so I started getting intouch with Sonia.
(05:16):
And it was a long conversationover a long period of time.
I'm a working actor.
I have to be working in order tocollect art.
So I was trying to gather enoughmoney to get all of these.
And I think I bought them like acouple here or one here, then a
book till I had the whole set.
But the remarkable pieces, Imean, it's really remarkable.
And so I started looking at someof Sonia's other work, which are
(05:40):
equally as remarkable.
And she has a real facilitypainting, but real facility for
telling a story.
And that really attracted myattention.
So I started And I found outthat she had a bunch of friends
because she's been in theChicano art from OG times, you
know.
The paintings were remarkable.
I mean, really, reallyremarkable.
(06:01):
When I finally met Sonia, as aremarkable personality as well,
it was really, really alive andinterested and engaging and
funny, very funny.
So what are you working on now?
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Okay, the murals I was working on, there was eight
of them, 50 feet each.
And the reason why I did it, Iwasn't gonna worry about money
and people's permission.
I just went out there and I wasfree.
I said, I'm gonna put what Iwant up there because they told
me don't be political.
So I said, how can I bepolitical without them knowing
it, okay?
(06:36):
But what I did was I did myfirst mural.
I was so upset with the childrenbeing thrown in cages.
And then, okay, and then there'schickens that are thrown in
cages, okay?
So I just decided to call themural Chicken and Children Do
Not Belong in Cages.
But my main goal was that thechildren shouldn't be in cages.
You should never do that tokids.
So I did a black and white muraland I had the emotions of the
(07:02):
children.
I didn't show so much them in acage because a lot of people are
drawing children in cages and weget the point.
What I was after was thesolitary, the emotional level of
these kids, the pain they werefeeling Thank you.
And that's what I went for.
Then the second mural I did wascalled Politos y Coyotes.
(07:24):
And we all know the story aboutthat.
And so I showed little childrenriding on the backs of coyotes
and being taken here and there.
It just makes me angry thatsomeone can separate children
like that.
I mean, there has to be anotherway to solve this border
problem.
Okay, my third picture.
Okay, I have to look.
Okay, well, this was dedicatedTo the seven, the 14 children
(07:51):
who were dead, who died whilebeing locked up.
I have an image of a woman.
She's Mother Earth and her armsare outreach like this and
behind her you would see 14little angels you know floating
and I have crosses here andthere so you know I'm talking
about death and as I'm speakingabout that I'm getting chills I
got the idea from another artistin Las Cruces she did the uh
(08:14):
painting but she didn't finishit and they white it out so I
said I want to borrow your ideaand she says go ahead so I did I
Picasso we still okay and thenum there was another one I have
a little fajita She's bendingdown, she's broken, and she has
a big bag on her back and it canbe full of apples, potatoes,
(08:35):
cotton.
And when I'm showing her, she'sworking real hard.
She's, she's, just working realhard, and she's probably 40, but
because of the type of workshe's doing, she looks like
she's 90.
So anyway, she's bending down,and there's cactus, and there's
a beautiful flower.
She's going to touch this cactusbecause she knows in life, as
(08:55):
old as she is, there's alwaysbeauty someplace.
And then in this particularmural, I have my husband, our
girl Vasquez, as a little boyway in the back, sitting there
against a big bag of cottonbecause in life, in real life,
he was a migrant worker also.
So I put him in there.
And then, let me know when youget tired.
I got a lot of these.
Oh, and then I did the LaLlorona, the one, the story.
(09:19):
I did it all on the wall, butnot in the sequence that you
have in your book, just the mainglimpse of it.
So we know that.
And then my last story wascalled School Plays.
And I have children sittingthere outside and they're
looking at a cross and they'regoing to their grandfather's
(09:39):
graveyard.
There's a little lizard thereand it's like, oops.
And then I have two little kids,the school play messing up.
They don't know what they'resaying.
So I'm just trying to put thelife of children, give them some
respect.
So you have seven or eight otherbrothers and sisters?
I have three brothers and four
SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
sisters.
Okay.
Wow.
So do you think that's where itcame from?
I
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
was raised in a housing project and it was
always children all around.
I enjoy growing kids becausewhen I'm doing it, I feel like a
big kid.
I feel like I can see theirminds.
I can get into them and reallyfeel what they're feeling.
I don't think that part of mehas ever changed when I was
growing up.
I mean, I know I'm a woman nowand I still have the heart of a
child.
(10:22):
And I mean, I can be adult andbe responsible, but I can let
that playfulness come in.
That's why I'm successful in aBecause I let the kid's heart
reside in me.
And that opens me up for newexperiences.
That's very important for me asan artist.
I kind of see myself, maybe,okay, I hope no one throws books
at me or booze.
(10:44):
But remember that movie,Amadeus?
Mozart was that hystericallaugh.
And the other man's looking athim.
How could this guy play all thisbeautiful music and act like
that?
I know when to be serious.
When you have it under control,you laugh.
SPEAKER_03 (10:57):
I was wondering about how you came up with the
technique.
You're using the combination ofall those different materials,
gesso and chalk and paint andwatercolor and drawing.
How did that evolve?
That
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
kind of evolved in high school.
We used a lot of ink and I justgot tired of just using plain
ink.
When I start doing artwork, Idon't try to do a finished
product when I'm exploring thetechnique.
I'm interested in learning aboutthe technique.
The finished product will comeand I wasn't ready for the
finished product.
So I was more or less exploringAnd then my technique with the
(11:31):
wax and oils that I use, believeit or not, I went to Mexico and
I saw Tamayo's work and he usesthat industrial sand.
I don't know that.
I didn't want to go to the storeand bring home a big bag of sand
because I was living on top of ahill.
I didn't have a car.
I wasn't going to haul that.
I was thinking I got to usesomething because I want that
texture.
And so I start reading aboutDorland wax, which gives me
(11:54):
layers of oodles and oodles oftransparencies and makes
sometimes you can make yourpaint and look like it's a wall.
I play with a lot of things.
And when I was going to school,a lot of the art teachers liked
me because I wouldn't dofinished products.
Like I said, I was testing thetechnique, the material.
How do you know to do a finishedproduct if you never use the
materials?
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
That's a good explanation of it, too, because
you see it evolving in yourwork.
It gets finer and finer, and thepainting has more depth to the
paint.
And so what is about yourfascination with monkeys?
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Oh, well...
I'm going to tell you guyssomething.
You're all going to laugh.
I always wanted to marry a greatwhite hunter.
I wanted to go to Africa.
I wanted to live there.
I was just fascinated by theAfrican culture and the little
monkeys.
I like their little figures, howthey move.
You never know.
(12:52):
Much like kids, you never knowwhat they're going to do next.
They're spontaneous and theirstructures.
I like their structures.
They're very human-like.
SPEAKER_03 (12:59):
I heard you were talking about them and about the
monkeys and you said you hadgone down to Costa Rica.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
They're real cute too.
It's like you can draw them.
They have a lot of humanqualities, but it's not like
drawing a person.
SPEAKER_03 (13:09):
The combination of figures and monkeys and, you
know, it's somewhat kind ofreminiscent of Frida Kahlo when
she had some monkeys in her, butthey were larger.
These are like little monos, youknow, they're kind of just,
they're all over the place.
And I really love the way youdo, but the way it really shows
up in the, in the depths of thepaint, you know, the
transparency and the luminosityof the paint, it really works
(13:32):
well with them.
That's a great combination, man.
So are you going to go for moreeducation or keep painting?
SPEAKER_00 (13:39):
I'm going to keep painting and I get my education
by keep painting.
Each time I paint, like mostartists, you discover something
new.
And I don't want to keep doingthe same thing because I want to
keep, as I say, I want to keepmy heart open so I can have new
experiences.
Some artists, I'm not knockingthem.
Some are comfortable staying inone genre.
I don't want to do that becauseone time I had a show in East LA
(14:01):
at the South Health Graphics,and I had my drawings and
paintings there, and they didn'twant my paintings.
They said, looks like twodifferent artists.
I said, well, why would I wantto paint the way I draw and vice
versa?
Two different materials.
So that's, you know, thematerials are different.
They land for different kind ofexecutions.
SPEAKER_04 (14:20):
That provides an interesting segue.
So you've talked a little bitabout the inspiration behind
your work, but would you talkabout sort of because I find
your drawings very differentthan your paintings and I
imagine your drawings there's adirect line evolutionary line
(14:41):
between the concrete drawings onthe floor and your drawings as
soon as I heard that about yourupbringing and your drawing on
the floor that That made senseto me instantly.
So can you talk a little bitabout the evolution of your work
and how the drawings and thepaintings intersect?
(15:01):
And then I also have a questionabout your backgrounds.
I find your backgrounds and yourpaintings just extraordinary.
And I want to know whether...
as you're thinking, as thispainting's coming together for
you in your head, are thebackgrounds part of that initial
process or is the initialfigures first and then the
backgrounds sort of fill inafterwards?
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
You wanna know why I did those drawings at the time I
did them?
Again, I was upset about themigrant kids in cages and I was
comparing their lockdown to thepandemic.
People are in their homes,they're complaining because they
can't go to the store and gettheir cup of coffee and their
(15:46):
ice cream.
And some can't go to the gym.
And these poor kids are thrownin a cage.
And, you know, big deal, icecream.
I mean, it was just two completeopposite wants.
And I just thought it wasbizarre.
So that's why I drew what I did.
And...
And of course the pandemic washorrible.
(16:06):
It was like being in a cage, butwe didn't have as bad as those
children.
Those children couldn't even geta sanitary napkin, the young
girls.
I mean, it was horrible.
And then I learned, I went downto Fort Bliss to protest and I
found out there were 5,000children detained at Fort Bliss
and they get the people there,like, you know, whoever's
(16:28):
running the show, they get$175per bed.
So why in God's name would theywant to find relatives and
parents for these kids whenthey're collecting all that
money?
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
You know, it's a thing that I've noticed is the
Chicana painters, the womenpainters of this genre, are much
more outraged by things that arehappening like that than anybody
else.
And they immediately translateit into paintings.
And I'm really affected by that.
And they're the strongestreactions.
(17:01):
And they're not afraid to, youknow, have that be
representative of their art, youknow, because it's a real touchy
world out there right now.
But I mean, if we don't listento our artists who are the
avatars of the coming times,we're cutting ourselves short
(17:22):
there.
But it's really amazing that thewomen have the strongest
reaction to any of the paintingsand reaction to what's going on
politically and culturally rightnow.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Because women give life and they see those not as
only their child.
All the children are theirchildren.
I paint children.
I only had one son, but the onlyreason why I did is I needed to
work.
I needed to paint.
I mean, if I had eight kids, Iwouldn't paint and we wouldn't
be having this conversation.
but no as a woman you you givebirth you give life and you do
(17:57):
that with your art too andsomething's gonna disturb me I
have a mouthpiece on me I'msurprised I still have all my
teeth I made a I made a lot ofpeople angry, but I'm still
going to be me.
And I'll just duck when hestarts.
I had a couple of those too.
So everything I'm telling youand Jess too is part of my art.
(18:19):
You know, if we just separatethe art and say, well, I'm an
artist.
I go to school here.
I learned this and then I followthis art.
No, it's all life.
Everything you experience comesonto that canvas.
Goofy things, the mean things,all my loves, all of it's all in
that canvas.
is
SPEAKER_03 (18:36):
How was your relationship with all the other
OG Chicano painters when youwere at Mexicano Art Center or
whatever?
Was that good, bad, indifferent?
Were you included, excluded?
I remember John Valdez.
Valdez.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
When I first met him, he wanted to get a studio
together.
I thought that would be nice,but I cannot work with other
artists.
I'm too consuming.
I consume the space.
I don't mean I'm a, you know,show offering, but I like my
space and I create myatmosphere.
And so somebody's over therepainting, it's going to either
(19:09):
affect me or I'm going to, itjust, I have to be total, uh,
poodle, if that's the rightword.
I'm trying to learn Spanish too.
No, but I met a lot of niceartists out there.
Some of the artists that don'tget any credit when they talk
about Chicana artwork, you know,I get tired just hearing the,
um, the four horsemen of theapocalypse.
(19:32):
There's other artists like, uh,Manuel Cruz, who was a, A
diamond in the rough.
He was this older man.
He had it rough, but he had goodideas.
He had very good ideas aboutChicano art.
He just had a hard way ofgetting his point across.
And then there was anotherartist, Joe Cervantes, who's
(19:52):
like Van Gogh.
You know, he's very, very goodartist.
And those two I remember most.
And of course, there wereartists coming in and out.
I didn't meet Margarita Garcia.
But I met Margaret throughFacebook.
That was, you know, a couple ofyears ago.
But I met a lot of artists,Charles Amaras.
And, you know, let's face it, alot of artists have big eagles.
(20:16):
That's fine.
You need a big eagle to survivebecause if someone says boo to
you, you're going to be crushed.
Now, I don't care what peopletell me.
I had good training at home.
My father, he was a mean person.
And after him, nothing scared meexcept if you have a gun, you
know, aimed at me.
but they better pull the triggerand make it quick.
I don't want to think about it.
(20:36):
But other than that, I had goodtraining from my father and
upbringing.
And I met a lot of good artists,a lot of, you know, great
artists, good artists and crazyartists.
And we're all there.
We're all there trying to createsomething for this world.
And there's plenty of space forus all except my studio.
(20:58):
It has to be my own space.
Todd, you got another question?
SPEAKER_04 (21:01):
I'm interested in where your drawings and your
paintings intersect for you.
Because I think you made astatement earlier about the
gallerist saying, you know, yourdrawings and your paintings look
like two different painters.
And I don't think they do, butI'm interested to know for you
how they intersect.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
The chalk drawings on the floor.
As I got older, I startedremembering the feelings I had
with chalk.
How you can blend stuff.
So that led me to my...
drawings with ink and chalk andgesso, mixed medium.
And it was a combination of justworking it, working it until
something appeared, somethingfelt good, until it worked.
(21:42):
The question, I think you askedme, how did it come to be with
my paintings?
To me, they don't intersectbecause they're two different
mediums.
And I believe artists have manypersonalities.
They don't want to admit it.
As I say, when I'm drawing, I'mtrying to get a different thing
going.
I want a different effect oreffect.
(22:04):
My paintings is completelydifferent.
It's a different medium.
I'm going for softness in mypaintings.
My drawings are more for hittingyou in the gut.
They're They're more for angeror things that are happening in
the world.
Because I noticed that formyself, if I was painting these
drawings that make me angry, Ibecome my paintings.
(22:26):
And I, you know, I really don'twant to live in a world where
I'm constantly fighting witheverybody in life, you know,
being like an activist.
We need activists, but Icouldn't live that kind of life
because I'd be, why are youdrinking that?
Don't you know, in Africa,they're this and that.
Why are you wearing this?
You can't enjoy life, you know?
So what I'm doing, my paintings,I want to show something
(22:47):
beautiful, but yet if you keeplooking, you're going to find a
dark thing in there, somethingthat's going to make you think.
My paintings are for thinkers.
They're not for people who justwant pretty things over the
couch.
All intelligent people buy mywork.
SPEAKER_03 (22:59):
I find both your drawings and your paintings
really beautiful and reallydistinctly different.
Your paintings, it took me alittle while longer to kind of
get in depth with them because Ididn't see a bunch of them at
first.
But then I started seeing moreand more and I go, oh, I see how
they're related.
I see how that technique isworking and that paint gets
thicker and thinner.
And there's a lot of layers inthere that, you know, that
(23:22):
painters discover forthemselves.
You know, I don't know how, youknow, you discovered that, but I
talked to a lot of painters andthey always talk about layering,
you know, until they get exactlythe tone they want.
It's almost like playing aninstrument, you know, or a
guitar or a violin.
The only thing that'sdistinctive about a musician
really is their tone, you know,what their tone sounds like.
(23:45):
Because you can immediately heara guitar player, oh, that's
Carlos Santana, Keith Richards,and that's his tone.
And you can immediately identifyit.
And I find that with yourpaintings now, the tone, what
stands out for it to me.
And it's also subtle at the sametime.
You know, and I always followthat.
Wow, that's an interestingdynamic combination.
You know, they're subtle and inyour face at the same time.
(24:07):
You know, you have to thinkabout your images a lot, you
know, because they look like,oh, OK, there's a woman with a
monkey, you know, but it meansso much more than that when you
look at them, especially throughthe prism or the lens of that
technique.
You know, that's really whatbrings it to the fore.
And now you have your own voice.
So which do you prefer now?
(24:28):
Do you prefer drawing orpainting?
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Both.
Like right now, I painted a dollface a long time ago and I'm
looking at it now.
I said, oh, now I know what todo with it.
That's the good thing aboutliving with artwork.
You'll see what you need to do.
And then, of course, sometimesyou destroy it by accident.
You don't mean to, but that'show it is for me, art.
I live with it.
I live with it every day.
I create every day and
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
it's just part of
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
my
SPEAKER_03 (24:52):
being.
Do you prefer to work with menor women or a combination of
both?
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Combination of both.
I worked with Judy Bacarestoring murals.
And we had 20 artists out thererestoring.
It was men and women.
It was fun.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Judy Baca and I went to high school together.
Where are you living now?
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
I have a home here in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
And I have three acres at theHoopa Indian Reservation in
Humboldt County.
And my husband and I arethinking of going back there for
a while.
Really?
Because I miss California.
I was born and raised in the...
General Hospital, one year afterMargaret Garcia.
SPEAKER_03 (25:26):
I know that hospital very well.
So what do you want to goforward doing?
What's the next thing that youwant to do?
I
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
want to get into more museum shows.
It's good to have sales, okay?
But it's even better when thepublic sees what you are doing.
I'm getting a lot of goodresponse on this museum show.
I have people writing to me,calling me.
I had some buyers here lastweek.
at my studio and I get peoplewriting and they're like so
(25:59):
overwhelmed and I'm thinking ohI did this because you know you
live with your art it's like atap water you turn it on and off
and you don't think anything ofit but then when people come and
tell you things whoa I did allthis that's pretty good you know
but I don't let it go to my headI'm very down to earth because
as soon as you think you're wayup there somebody kicks you
(26:21):
Norma, do you have a question?
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
I kind of want to ask a question along the lines
with the, you know, your kids incages.
I think that's one of myfavorite thematic pieces that
you have.
And so I know you did some mixedmedia with the pieces and you
focused on the detained migrantchildren, but also COVID and
kind of tied those two together.
And I feel like they'redifferent from the paintings.
(26:46):
And now I know why.
And they're different from, Ithink, the older drawings,
right?
So I was just going to see ifyou could tell us more about the
thematic work and the style.
And I mean, did one inspire theother or, you know, did Las
Cruces inspire that?
I think it did.
But, you know, I just want toknow more about it.
And you did
SPEAKER_00 (27:04):
an excellent job at hanging, Norma.
You did a Beautiful job.
In fact, I'm going to saysomething now.
I've been to other museum showshere in Las Cruces, but this is
the best.
I'm not talking so much about mywork.
It's how you presented it withthe flowers and the colors.
I mean, it's fun to walk into,not a tomb.
SPEAKER_03 (27:23):
I saw you make flowers.
I saw that video.
Those are cool.
They're beautiful.
They were simple to make, butthey were beautiful.
The show was really well hungand it displayed the pieces
very, very well.
I was amazed at how much workyou had produced in that period
of time.
It's a lot of work.
Some painters work every day allthe time and some painters take
(27:46):
a longer time to get fewerpieces out.
I'm particularly drawn topainters who paint all the time
because you can see the progressI've
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
always been fast, though.
Fast with everything.
Sometimes people say, I spend 12hours in my studio, and I tell
them, what, you can't figure itout in four?
SPEAKER_03 (28:04):
You did spend time in juvie, didn't you?
I know it.
Melissa, do you got a question?
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Sure.
Thanks, Cheech.
Sonia, I love you.
You just cracked me up.
I'll never forget when you metCheech and I down in San Diego
at the Museum of ContemporaryArt, and we had just opened the
Popelchuk on a Dose show.
What do you remember?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
I asked him, can we take a picture together?
So we go over there and take apicture, but I told him, I just
don't want to stand there, youknow, shoulder to shoulder and
look at the camera all straightand crazy.
I was listening to a love songto each other.
So we're singing these lovesongs.
He's singing in Spanish and I'mjust, and my husband's back
there with the camera taking allthese great shots.
I mean, it was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_03 (28:48):
It
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
was fun for
SPEAKER_03 (28:49):
me.
Some artists are very quiet andsome artists are very quiet.
Not quite, which is just fine,you know.
So what do you think, here's anoff-the-wall question because
you talked about it a little bitbefore, about the balance of
being shown in a museum andcommerce.
How does that balance work foryou, being able to sell
(29:10):
paintings and then being, yousaid it's really more
significant for you to be in amuseum because then everybody
can see your work.
Personally, what does it mean toyou?
I mean, you have to make aliving as a painter, so you like
to sell paintings How does thatwork for you?
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Yes, I love to sell my work.
But when you're having a museumshow, to me, it's like you
arrive.
And the people come to look atyour work, not worrying about
sales.
They're going to look at yourwork for art, for art's sake,
whatever the art is.
This is what makes, to me,civilization grow.
Instead of just, you know, justselling all your work at
galleries.
Now I do that, but now I selljust straight from my studio.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
That leads to a question from me, Sonia.
How has being in the CheechMarine collection affected your
career?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Well, it has given me a lot of clout when you tell
them, oh, Cheech Marine has mywork.
And oh, and all of a suddenpeople stand back and like the
Wizard of Oz, how they say Oz.
And I feel blessed and honoredthat you chose my work because
what you're doing for theChicano art is great.
Nobody was doing that.
In fact, in the beginning in the70s, I met Chicano, a lot of the
(30:16):
artists, They knew they weren'tgonna be shown at the museums on
the West side.
They said, what the hell is it?
We're not going to even do that.
They stuck with themselves andgot their own buildings.
It was a good time.
It was a lively time.
The artists were comingtogether.
And it was almost like theimpressionists, the French
artists back in the day, howthey're all discovering formula
(30:39):
paintings, you know, making thecolors stand out, this and that,
except for Van Gogh.
He wanted to be so much in that.
But anyway, I don't know.
I see myself having a long life.
You know, we can't predict whenwe're going to die or get
horrible diseases.
But so far, And it's, it's anice feeling to know.
Like I was telling Margaret theother day, I feel like we
arrived.
I told Margaret that because alot of women artists, it seems
(31:00):
as though a lot of them are nowgetting museum shows.
We don't have to wait till we're80 years old or 90, you know,
like back in the olden days orbe on a deathbed like poor
Shreya when she finally got anart show.
Gee, you know, but no, I feelvery honored and privileged.
And I want to thank you.
It's a, it's a great thing youare doing.
SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
No, I think, I think you're most, prosperous days are
ahead because people will be nowexposed.
to your work.
And that's the whole purpose ofthis.
You can't love or hate Chicanoart unless you see it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Sometimes when you're working, you don't know
exactly how it's going to turnout.
You play with it and it speaksto you.
And you say, oh, at first I wasgoing to put yellow here, but
you know what?
Blue looks better.
So for me, it's not a set thing.
Unless I'm doing commercial artfor somebody and they want a
portrait, you got to make itlook like them.
Okay, everything's set.
That's easy.
You don't have to think.
(31:52):
And it doesn't matter what youknow about the artist when
you're looking at the artwork.
It's a now.
And that's one thing I I likeabout museum work.
It doesn't really
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
matter what they felt.
You know, it matters what theviewer feels when he's looking
at the painting.
So it's that kind of, you canput titles on it and it's a nice
clue and you can make up yourown story about it.
But I'm more concerned about thetechnique of it.
You know, how did that paintarrive on the canvas or how did
(32:18):
that chalk arrive on the pieceof paper?
And art is that theconversation, you know, and you
get to have
SPEAKER_05 (32:24):
the
SPEAKER_03 (32:25):
conversation as relevant in the conversation as
the artist when you're standingin front of the painting, you
know?
And so, I mean, you can know alot about their previous work,
you know, about work in general,but it's a conversation.
And it goes back and forth.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Like when you go in a museum, I'll just say this
when I was in Europe.
SPEAKER_03 (32:43):
You were in Europe?
SPEAKER_00 (32:44):
When I went there, okay, we know Picasso was dead
and the other artists, a lot ofthem were dead.
But when I was standing in frontof this particular Picasso, I
felt his spirit because he putit all in the canvas.
So his marks, that was his markwhen he was alive.
And so that's the great thingabout museum works.
When you go there and even theartist is dead or gone, not even
around you, their presence...
(33:05):
are in that painting.
And that's powerful.
And that's what I like.
And that's why I like museums.
They get my more shows inmuseums so people can feel that
power, whether I'm there yakkingto them or not.
SPEAKER_03 (33:17):
I would have said that I think that paintings are
alive and they're imbued withthe energy, the creative energy
of the artist.
And they're still alive.
And there's this low hum thatcomes off of them.
And every time you pass them,you're being infected with that
hum, whether you realize it ornot, you know, because it takes,
I don't know how many years foroil paintings to dry even you
(33:37):
know and then that message isthat that worked and because it
because it involves a verysimple technique it's it's hair
on a on a stick and canvas youknow and that takes a long time
to settle in and then there'senergy that comes off of those
paintings they're alive there isa reason why people after
hundreds of years come tomuseums to see them same
(33:58):
paintings because they're stillalive
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
and you know what i noticed you can see ordinary
work or mediocre work and looksgreat on the computer.
You see it in person and thenyou see these great paintings on
a computer and go, oh, I got togo see that.
And when you see it in person,it's nothing like how it looked
on the computer.
It's so much better in person.
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
You have to see paintings in person.
That's...
I mean, that's my philosophybecause, you know, because paint
is such a medium that you haveto see it in person because it's
so deep and has so manysubtleties in it that you can't
get it off a two-dimensional.
It's quantum physics.
I mean, you can explain it thatway.
It has an effect in the realworld and it causes things to
(34:42):
move, you know.
And every time you see a great,great painting, I mean, there's
a reason that people line up 10deep to see the Mona Lisa every
single day of the year becauseit They're getting this buzz,
this hum off it, you know, andit's like going to Lourdes or
something.
And, you know, there's aspiritual connection with it
(35:03):
that is absolutely real.
And even for that littlepainting, you know, that's
amazing.
But it doesn't matter how big itis.
It's what's inside the framethat counts.
We want to see your paintingscome closer to California.
So tell
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
me, when are you coming
SPEAKER_03 (35:17):
to my art show?
What's today?
I'd love to go.
I'm traveling right now.
I want to see those paintings inperson.
So we'll have to set up anothershow for you to bring them.
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
You know, I was just looking, that was actually a
question that someone had onthere.
It was for Norma, but reallyit's for this conversation.
The question is, is Sonia's showin Las Cruces going to travel?
And I personally am, I'minterested in seeing it myself
and maybe we can find the rightmuseum.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
But I would love for it
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
to travel.
SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
I'll
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
let you borrow the flowers.
And you have some beautifulpaintings behind you.
I know there's a lot of a thirstfor seeing your artwork.
So I see this luscious, lovelynew behind you and then I see
the wonderful the childrenbehind you as well those
paintings it looks like a lot ofyour paintings lately are quite
you're doing a lot larger work Imean the works that we have that
(36:04):
Cheech has I think I want to saythey're 18 by 24 I can't
remember offhand but thedrawings that you have which are
still pretty good sized drawingsand then the paintings the main
painting in the show that youhave is that four by four or
five six by six it's a big
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
painting I've got several large paintings and
those are I call my museumpieces.
I don't think anyone's going tobuy them for their home, but I
needed to do them.
They're maybe five feet by 12feet and five feet by seven
feet.
This is why I went out there andtackled those walls.
I said, I need room.
I need space.
I want to do something more.
(36:40):
I don't want to own it.
You know, I just go out thereand put the coating on it so no
one messes it up.
But I've always painted largesince 1980 something.
SPEAKER_03 (36:47):
Oh, painters paint large.
Chicanos in general paint large,which is good.
Any other questions from thepeanut gallery?
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
There's one more question, and it was from
Margaret Garcia, and she wasasking, does your experience
working as a single mother playa part in your concern for these
children?
And tell us about how you wereable to get your schooling and
how you had to work to pay yourtuition.
I
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
knew I wanted to go to art school, and I'm in a
housing project, right?
And I knew there's no way inhell I'm going to get a
scholarship because my academicgrades are not that good.
And I hated algebra.
So that messed me up.
As soon as today, I don't thinkI use algebra, but my husband
thinks I do when I'm painting.
So I held down two jobs.
When I was going to high school,I held down a job.
(37:34):
Morning, I was a PBX operator.
Lunchtime, I was working acafeteria.
After school, I was a PBXoperator.
Okay, I graduated from highschool.
I got a job right away and wentto junior college and I worked
that night.
Then after I got my AA degree injunior college, I held down two
jobs, one in the daytime when atnight.
Now, by this time, you mighthave known I wasn't dating.
(37:55):
Okay, there was no room forthat.
In fact, I didn't start datinguntil I was 21, which was good.
I have my reasons.
But anyway, so I just worked twojobs and I saved and saved and
saved.
And I got grants.
I didn't get scholarships.
I've known people with lessertalent who got scholarships, but
because they had good academicgrades, they were rewarded.
(38:19):
Okay, so I remember I wasapplying for this scholarship,
and it was between me andthis...
It was a Vicki Carr scholarship.
It was between me and this otherapplicant.
Well, I knew I wasn't going toget it because the applicant was
a doctor.
So...
I said, well, I'm not gettingit.
So I didn't even try to ask forhelp.
I just got a grant and I worked.
(38:41):
And that's what I did.
I worked everything I got.
Nobody handed me a darn thing.
They handed me advice andridicule.
But in fact, some people tell meyou call yourself an artist.
You can't even draw hands andyou can't.
And I was working at Michael'sOcean Foods one semester when I
was going to art school.
And the owner there told me toquit school and become one of
(39:03):
his full time employees.
And I'm thinking, I'm going tobe flipping fish the rest of my
life.
It's crazy.
You know, knucklehead, justtrying to keep me down.
You know, you little brownwoman, stay in that kitchen.
So anyway, how was him?
So I don't listen to people.
I have a dream and I'll listento critical people.
(39:23):
advise me if it's going to helpme, but if you're just going to
tear me down, I refuse to lookin your mirror and see your
reflection of me.
That's not how I see me.
So I don't, I have a tendency ofgetting off of the tangents.
I talk, talk, talk, but no, Iworked real hard and got myself
through school.
And here's a funny thing.
When I went to art center, Iwent there and brought my
(39:44):
portfolio.
And, you know, you get accepted,you're happy, right?
That didn't happen to me.
I get there and say, oh, wecan't accept you.
I said, why?
Your grades.
I said, well, look at my art.
Well, I'll tell you what, you'llbe on probation.
And one reason why I fought toget in was because I was
bragging to all my friends injunior high.
I'm going to art school.
I'm going to art school becauseI already got my, you know,
(40:07):
degree.
AA degree and I told the ladythat was looking at my portfolio
I can't go back because you knowthe shame of it all you know
going back to junior college soshe told me well okay you can
come you'll be in this schoolwe'll accept you under one
condition I said what's thatyou're on probation when I got
in I was on probation but I gotin so I went home and told my
(40:28):
mother I got good news and badnews what do you want can never
just go there and be happy I gotin you know there's always
something Always something.
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
It was really a pleasure talking to you, Sonia.
Really, I always have fun.
SPEAKER_01 (40:43):
Sonia, thank you so much for joining us and sharing
your story today.
I really appreciate it.
Norma, what a pleasure it is tomeet you and get to know you.
I'm really looking forward toseeing your work as you continue
your curating and stuff.
You did a great show.
I'm just really impressed withthe installation, how you
selected the works, yourthoughtfulness in terms of how
you worked with Sonia's work.
(41:04):
I was just so excited because Ilearned so much more about
Sonia's work because of justeven observing from afar and
then having these conversationswith Sonia as well but it's just
um Sonia you just blow me away Imean really the idea that you
know you have these differentways of expressing yourself and
you're always so creative andevolving and moving ahead and I
(41:25):
really appreciate it thank youthank you thank you and to our
audience please check outSonia's work on our website
www.soniafe.com that'ss-o-n-y-a-f-e.com if you want to
to learn more about theexhibition that's on view in New
Mexico through July 24th, pleasevisit www.lascruces.org slash
(41:46):
1542 slash museum hyphen ofhyphen art.
Now for show notes, links,artwork, images, reference in
this program, you can visitwww.causeconnect.net.
That's my firm's website, but wewill be posting all of that over
to riversideartmuseum.org laterthis summer.
They're getting a new websiteand we're going to be putting
(42:06):
that on it.
Insert Certainly you can learnmore about the Cheech at
www.thecheechcenter.org.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum to support
the Cheech.
And it's made possible throughthe generous support of the
Union Pacific Foundation.
So we thank them.
So adios.
Thank you so much.
This has really been a pleasure.
(42:27):
Cheech, thank you for taking thetime.
Todd, thank you for working withme on this.
Norma and Sonia Faye, keep oncreating, girl.
You are an inspiration.
I'm always laughing hard.
And keep your heart open.
I really love that you saidthat.
Why would you want to paint likeyou draw?
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
Anybody that can possibly walk, fly or swim
there, get there to see thisshow because it's really, really
a great show.
SPEAKER_02 (42:52):
I like the word that you used, Cheech.
It's buzzing.
Like every time you walk throughit, there's like this buzz.
There's this energy.
Bye bye, everybody.
SPEAKER_03 (42:58):
Thanks, Sonia.
SPEAKER_02 (42:59):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
SPEAKER_06 (43:07):
We'll be right back.
(43:38):
Subtitulado por Jnkoil
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