September 19, 2021 • 75 mins
CiCi Segura González is the featured artist in this episode of the “Son Cuatro: In Conversation” podcast co-hosted by art advocate Cheech Marin with Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum; Cris Scorza, the Helena Rubinstein Chair of Education at the Whitney Museum of American Art; and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks of CauseConnect, the producer and moderator of this series who also manages Marin's notable Chicano art collection.
Check out more in-depth articles, stories, and photographs by Melissa Richardson Banks at www.melissarichardsonbanks.com. Learn more about CauseConnect at www.causeconnect.net.
Follow Melissa Richardson Banks on Instagram as @DowntownMuse; @MUSEDhouston, and @causeconnect.
Subscribe and listen to the MUSED: LA 2 HOU podcast on your favorite streaming platforms, including Spotify, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, and more!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_06 (00:00):
Welcome
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
to Sun Quatro in Conversation.
This series is by Riverside ArtMuseum, aka RAM, leading up to
its opening of the CheechMudding Center for Chicano Art
and Culture, aka the Cheech.
I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks.
And today, there are four of us.
In conversation with my friendand artist, Cece
(00:38):
Segura-Gonzalez, Ton Woodgate,Director of Exhibitions and
Collections at Riverside ArtMuseum, Chris Gorza, the Helena
Rubinstein Chair of Education atthe Whitney Museum of American
Art, and the incomparable CheechMarine, entertainer, filmmaker,
comedian, collector, and artadvocate.
(00:58):
I've worked with Cheech about 20years, and the best part of my
work is I get to work with him.
but also sometimes very rarely Iget to introduce a new artist to
him.
It doesn't happen very oftenbecause he's out there scouting
artists all the time.
And especially during thepandemic when he became really
prolific on Instagram.
(01:18):
So about 10 years ago, artwriter Matt Gleason called me
and asked if I would stop by hisChinatown Gallery Coagula
Curatorial.
He had a show at the timefeaturing works by Sisi.
And when I texted Cheech imagesof Cyclops and musical chairs,
he immediately said, get those,and then he placed them in our
(01:40):
nationally touring exhibition,Chichenitas, and its companion
catalog.
Todd, can you tell us a littlebit about Cece?
SPEAKER_05 (01:48):
Absolutely.
Thank you, Melissa.
Primarily an abstract artist,Cece Segura-Gonzalez also paints
figurative work using oil,acrylic, and watercolor,
utilizing printmaking techniquesto create woodcuts, etchings,
and monoprints.
She studied at East Los AngelesCollege, working with artist
mentors such as Roberto Chavez,Dale May, and and Uli Berg.
(02:09):
Like many Chicano artists, sheprinted at LA's Self-Help
Graphics under the guidance ofSister Karen Boca Calero and has
taught at-risk youth.
She has worked for manycompanies such as the Walt
Disney Company as an in-housegraphic designer, a storyboard
artist, fashion illustrator, andart director.
For the annual Tropico de NopalCalavera fashion show in Los
(02:31):
Angeles, she has createdcostumes over the years in
homage to art icons such asRufino Tamayo and David Altaro
Sequeros.
Widely collected andinternationally, Her artwork
also is included in major U.S.
publications and privatecollections.
Her work is featured on thecover of the catalog for Propel
Chicano Dos, works on paper fromthe Cheech Marine Collection,
(02:54):
which is on view currently atthe Colorado Springs Fine Arts
Center now through August 7th.
So my first question is forCheech.
And Cheech, would you tell us alittle bit about how you came to
know Cece and started acquiringher work?
SPEAKER_04 (03:11):
Well, I was, thanks to I was alerted to her by
Melissa, first at that Coagula,whatever that name is, and Matt
Gleason's gallery in downtown inChinatown.
And I didn't see the works inperson, but I saw them on a
computer and it was, oh, theywere fascinating to me.
(03:32):
I love the craftsmanship inthem.
And so that's how I, and then Iwent down to Chimao, the other
gallery, to see them in person.
And then I was really impressed.
And the main work that I boughtwas Soy Chicana.
We just straightened out thetitle of that.
Soy Chicana, which is a big, alarge piece.
(03:54):
And I was knocked over by it,but mostly because of the way it
was hung.
I mean, she had, looks like itwas still wet, you know, or
something.
She had barely rolled it up andthen somebody just, they just
tacked it on the wall and it's alarge piece.
So, There was a kind of likehung suede in the middle, you
(04:15):
know, but I knew it was a majorpiece right away.
And so we conducted a deal forthat.
The thing that was fascinatingme most about CeCe, you CeCe, is
that I had never heard of youbefore.
And that's like, well, how did Imiss this lady?
You know, and it was like hidingin plain sight, it seems to me
(04:39):
at the end of the day, becauseyou had been involved in the
movement earlier with all theself-help graphics and all the
other places that you showed andworked at.
But I didn't know your name andI didn't know your work and it
would seem kind of hidden.
And then when I started talkingto you, I found out your
(04:59):
background that I think thatthat same time we were working
for Disney, you know?
And so I said, well, this is abreakthrough.
We're smuggling Chicanos intoDisney now.
This is good.
But it was kind of hidden by thecorporate world that you were
in, but the work was coming out.
And so as I investigatedfarther, I saw more and more
(05:21):
work that is half abstract andhalf figurative.
And that's an interestingcombination, you know, because
people approach it different andhow they connect with it or
what's the word I'm trying tosay empathize with it or relate
to it you know so that wasreally interesting but what was
(05:45):
also amazing is that you werevery prolific and I like that
part you know because all myfavorite artists are the ones
who are very prolific you knowthere's some artists that take a
long time to do one painting andthat's That's their process, and
that's good.
But I like painters who paintevery day, you know, because it
just evolves out of them,really.
(06:07):
You know, sometimes you get tothe point, it seems, as talking
to artists, where you're almostan instrument of whatever the
muse or whatever the inspirationis.
I know I feel that same way as awriter.
When you're writing somethingand you think it's going to go
this way, you have an idea inyour head about the characters,
and they just take off.
(06:28):
No, this is how I want to be.
You just are seeing it now.
And I think that's the way withpainters because although very
studied, it's a very spontaneousprocess at the same time that
you don't know when thatinspiration is going to strike
and start guiding your hand.
So that was always a verydefinite part of your work.
(06:52):
And also the technique.
You use a lot of differenttechniques in the same canvas or
in the And I love the texturethat it brings to every single
one of those paintings.
And that's always very, verygood to me.
Very attractive to me anyways.
(07:13):
But I was still always trying tofigure out.
But you started a self-helpgallery.
What was this punk gallery thatyou showed at, Cece?
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
Well, actually, it was one of the first punk
stores, New Wave Stores inWestwood.
Thank you.
And yes, I was working forLevi's Strauss, Levi's for Gals,
as a receptionist showroommodel.
And somebody turned me on to afriend of theirs that needed
(07:44):
somebody to, an artist to workat their Westwood store.
And it was a wild ride.
We had great times.
It was, you know, the music.
I did all their advertisements.
design clothes for them.
(08:04):
And it was an amazing time to bethere.
And it was like, you know, late70s, early 80s.
And And I think I did mentionthat Richard Duardo came into
that store.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_04 (08:18):
and you had pink and turquoise hair at the same time?
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
I had turquoise hair, and my friend Martha had
pink hair.
And I'll tell you, when hewalked in, he looked very
divine, I have to say, dressedin this amazing suit.
And the pattern was like anindigenous pattern or an Aztec
pattern.
UNKNOWN (08:42):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
And he just eyeballed us and we eyeballed
him and it was like, what isthis all about?
And he was very, very sweet, muysimpatico.
And we were talking, you know,he was asking about the store
and then he invited us actuallyto his, the place, the studio
(09:04):
that he was working at.
And one day we went down thereand it was in Highland Park and
we walked into the studio.
I believe it was on Figueroa.
And you have to remember, Ididn't know any of these
artists.
And so he started introducing usto some of the artists and one
(09:25):
of them was Carlos Almaraz.
So, you know, actually he waslooking to do some silkscreen
for us.
because we were also doingsilkscreen t-shirts with some of
the punk clothes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:39):
For those of you who don't know who Richard Duarte
was, he was the head of ModernMultiples, which was the printer
of record in the Chicanocommunity early at Modern
Multiples.
I already said that.
And he printed everybody in themovement at that particular
time.
And to this day, he's like oneof the master printers.
He also did all the printing forthe Chicano Visions part of it,
(10:04):
where we had a a print of everysingle one of the artists that
were in the show.
Wonderful.
Unfortunately, he's passed on,and I'm still mad at him about
that.
But he was a great inspirationto the whole Chicano movement.
He introduced me to a lot ofartists over the years, and he
(10:25):
encouraged me to keep showing itlike I was going to do.
So you hooked up with the rightguy at the right time.
There
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
it is.
It was exciting.
You know, he came to see theVillage Muse in Westwood.
We came to see the studio inHighland Park.
Yeah.
It was wonderful.
SPEAKER_04 (10:44):
Did you work with him at any Prince?
No.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
No, I've never, I never had the opportunity, but I
would have loved to.
SPEAKER_04 (10:53):
I would love to.
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
I went to some of his parties.
SPEAKER_04 (10:56):
Yeah, well, those are good.
They went on for days.
Yeah.
He always used to show up at myhouse on Sunday morning with a
bucket of menudo and some pan dehuevo, you know, and we'd
discuss art.
It was great in those days.
So what is your educationalbackground?
You went to where?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
East LA College.
And I went there for about twoyears.
And then, you know, prior tothat, I worked in a factory to
get money to go to school.
And fortunately, I had to dropout of college.
And I just started, you know,getting into the workforce.
(11:36):
And so that's my one of my firstjobs was the showroom model at
Levi's for gals.
I did get a whole wardrobe.
It What
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
kind of
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
factory did you work
SPEAKER_04 (12:00):
in?
taught you the path of art afteryou got out of school or during
this process?
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
You know, as a young girl, I was always I was always
paint, drawing or something.
It's kind of a Lady Gaga song.
I was born this way.
I just naturally startedpainting and drawing.
But my dad was an artist, but hedidn't work as an artist.
(12:42):
But he would draw every nightwhen he would come home.
He would draw after he wasreading the newspaper.
And I would cut out those littlepictures and save every single
one of them.
And I do have a couple of hispaintings still.
But I actually never met anyother artists until I, I guess,
(13:07):
started working, to tell you thetruth.
I had gone to galleries, I hadgone to museums, but I had not
gone, I had not really met areal artist until I met the
German artist, Uli Berg.
SPEAKER_04 (13:21):
So how did you get in with Carlos Almaraz and all
those guys?
SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
I did not.
I was born in San Gabriel and II lived in Altadena.
So I kind of I don't have thatpedigree that a lot of people
have of the walkouts andeverything.
And I'll tell you a reallyinteresting story.
When I was working for theVillage News and I was traveling
to London, you know, seeing thepunks in London and doing work
(13:47):
there.
And I came back.
And there was a friend thatsaid, you know what, you should
go to self-help graphics.
And I said, what's that?
Well, you need to come, youknow, just check it out.
And I was always a human rightstype of person, right?
Very aware.
But when I went to self-helpgraphics, I have to tell you, I
(14:08):
was blown away.
I mean, a lot of political stuffthey were into, an awareness
that I have to tell you that Idid not have.
I came from a very strictfamily.
And so...
I wasn't allowed to wander, youknow, go to other areas or
anything.
And so it was a real awakeningfor me.
(14:32):
And I have to tell you, some ofthe artists there at that time
in the 90s at Self Help Graphicswere some of the most talented
artists ever.
I've ever met.
I mean, I was totally inspiredby them.
You know, Israel Rodriguez,Artemio Rodriguez was working
(14:54):
there at the time.
Polly Marichal, MarianneSadowski, just all these people,
a wealth of talent.
And it really made me aware ofwhat was happening in
underprivileged areas, too.
So, you know, it was a realturning point for me.
SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
Was that any influence on your divide between
doing abstract work andfigurative work?
Because there's two distinctfields that you work in.
Not that they're not related,but they're two distinct fields.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Well, at the Punkster, the Village Muse, I
did a lot of illustrations.
And, you know, at Disney, I dida lot of digital work,
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
But I had always drawn.
I always kept a journal.
SPEAKER_03 (15:45):
I
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
always drew in it.
When I started painting, I foundmyself really attracted to
shapes and shapes.
The force of the canvas, thesize of the canvas too, because
I like working large.
And then at a certain point, thetwo
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
came together.
Abel Ortiz mentioned somethingthat I thought was pertinent to
the discussion between you andCece just now.
And he says he relates to Cece'swork because he too explores and
speaks through both abstract andrepresentational imagery.
And he said for him, it feelslike that it relates to his
bilingual knowledge.
(16:26):
to not limit ourselves to onelanguage.
And that's what he sees inCece's work.
And I thought that was really agreat point.
And I was curious if Chris orCece or Cheech, if that, you
know, just kind of, what do youthink about that?
I thought it was really madesense.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
I love that, actually.
I absolutely feel the same way,I think, when I saw Sisi's
painting at the museum, saw howit was about being both
bilingual and bicultural.
And it's just that tension thatexists, but that love for
connecting the both that existsin our culture, where we can go
(17:06):
from you hablo espanol to youhablo ingles, in English
speaking, in a minute.
So it is a beautiful comparisonof what happens with abstraction
and representation, like the twolanguages that exist and
coexist.
So thank you, Ivo.
SPEAKER_04 (17:25):
You can see that in like Soy Chicana and some of the
other things that you do.
So do you identify more with theabstract or more with the
figurative?
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Well, that's a very interesting question.
Because I've been asked bygalleries, like you shouldn't do
abstract or do the figurative.
You have to choose one.
And I feel, no, I do exactlywhat I want to do.
SPEAKER_04 (17:54):
Right.
Sounds like an artist to me.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
But I really have to say self-help graphics.
When I went there and meteverybody, that was my tribe.
I realized like, this is what Iwant to do.
And this is where I belong.
And so it was quite powerful.
SPEAKER_04 (18:12):
When you kind of came out as a Chicano or I
started identifying with thatmovement, you were older than...
emerging artists.
So how did you identify at thatpoint?
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
Well, I have to say, you know, my parents were very,
I come from one of the oldfamilies of San Gabriel, where
everybody knew who we were, andreported back to my parents.
And they use the word Chicano asa derogatory term, right?
So a lot of people had that.
(18:46):
My parents are always veryproud, though, of being Mexican
and American.
My dad's Tex-Mex, you know, andhe doesn't let you, he never let
us forget that.
I just think I was always ahuman rights person.
When I was around more of thegente, I saw like a great need
(19:08):
for a voice in my artwork thatspoke to to what was happening
around me.
And I think it gave it eventhough I, you know, I wasn't in
my 20s, but I was aware of whatwas going on always, you know,
but I think it gave a freshnessto my to my work, even though I
(19:32):
was a little older.
Yeah.
that I came into it a littleolder.
SPEAKER_04 (19:37):
That was the one thing that surprised me when I
first met you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
That I was old?
SPEAKER_04 (19:41):
No, that you were older and making an appearance
for the first time.
I
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
was going to say a working girl.
We're
SPEAKER_04 (19:48):
all working girls, honey.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
I had to make a living.
I lived by myself.
I was a single woman.
I would come home from eighthours, nine hours, and set up my
easel and start painting untiltwo o'clock in the morning.
and then go to sleep and wake upand do the same thing all over
again.
And I was exhibiting and stuff.
(20:11):
I just, I don't know the, youknow, sure, I would have liked a
larger circle of where I showed,but that is something I think
that needs to be addressed, youknow, with things that are
happening now.
I think we need morerepresentation and people need
(20:32):
to see what's happening in a lotof different communities.
SPEAKER_04 (20:35):
It was interesting.
I was talking to Sonia Faye theother day when we had this
conversation and I told her thatwhat I've noticed is that the
women part of this movement, thefemales are more outraged by
injustices that I see.
They want to get to the canvasright away and to the easel
because they're just like...
(20:57):
that something really pisses youoff.
And even though you have animmediate inspiration, the
product that comes out at theend takes a long time.
I mean, this is a veryhandcrafted work that you do.
So it's not like you just don'tdash it off and here's my, it
represents emotion.
(21:17):
It doesn't, it representsemotion originally, but the
craftsmanship really comes intoit.
And that's the perfectmicrophone to use, to announce
the outrage, you know, and we'vehad plenty of chances in the
last years, you know, to like,what are you people?
And so to strike your voice, andthat's really what attracted me.
(21:44):
But as I see the painting behindyou, the abstract, I see now the
techniques that you use.
In the other work, in the otherfigurative works, you know, that
method of painting and themethod of drawing, that they
kind of flow together.
This is an remarkable work.
So then the question, do youidentify more with the abstract
(22:08):
or the figurative?
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
You know, that's a hard question because both of
those are me.
Yeah.
In my house, I have abstract.
My drawings were somethingabstract.
that were always a personal sideof me.
And like I said, I had alwayskept a journal.
I just felt that, I don't thinkI can make that call.
(22:30):
I think maybe when I merge themtogether, why that happens, I
just feel that there is a needto speak, because it's a
language that I'm speaking,right?
I mean, when I draw, It's a muchmore personal relationship with
(22:51):
the viewer that can kind of seewhere my head's at.
When I do abstract, they have tolook a little bit more carefully
into it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:01):
I love your abstract work.
I mean, you can just see itright there.
But I see some of the imagesthat morphed into similar
images, but...
put together to tell anarrative.
It's amazing.
You know, people are alwaysamazed by your work when I sell
it to them, but I have to screenthem.
SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
Well, this one's an oil.
And I tend, when I work withoil, I do a lot of layering.
I use also other materials likecharcoal and things like that.
So it's a real process.
And I'm a big nerd when it comesto painting and stuff like that.
(23:43):
I think most people who know mego, wow, she's really into it.
When I paint...
And it depends, especially saylike during the pandemic, when I
laugh, my canvas laughs.
When I cry, my canvas cries.
I really feel at one with mycanvas.
SPEAKER_04 (24:04):
It shows.
I mean, the unity in your workis amazing.
Chris, do you have a question?
We've been ignoring you as longas we could, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yes, yes, yes.
I have a couple of questions.
And again, thank you for makingme part of this conversation.
I had the pleasure to meet Ciciand seeing her work, Soy
Chicana, when it was firstpresented in Papel Chicano Doze
at the Museum of ContemporaryArt in San Diego.
(24:35):
And I fell in love with thepiece.
It was actually the centerpiecefor a large salon hanging of
Cheech Marin's collection at themuseum.
And I think what draw me to thework was that tension that
you're speaking about, theabstraction and the figuration,
the contemporary and thesymbolism of the
(24:58):
Mexican-American culture, all ofthose things coming together.
I love in that piece, how youhave sort of these very
cartoon-like, which now I takecomes from the inspiration of
the illustration work that wewere doing at Walt Disney,
Quetzalcoatl skulls in bonefigures and then the abstract
(25:21):
skirts that flow with the womenkind of running behind a
bullfight.
There's so much.
It's such a complex piece.
There's a lot of text that speakto your passion about human
rights and liberation.
But one of my big questions, andyou were alluding a little bit
to it, this sort of the role ofthe female artists in the sort
(25:44):
of Chicano movement arena andhow do you carve a space for
yourself.
So if you want to tell us alittle bit about how is that
kind of process of carving aspace for yourself, as Cheech
also mentioned, you seem to havebeen in front of everyone, but
at the same time, not as noticedby some of the people in the
(26:09):
movement.
But you certainly have madequite an appearance and we love
your work.
So do you want to chat a littlebit about that, Cece?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Well, being a Chicana, Latina artist, it was
something that, you know, somepeople, I have to tell you this,
I'm being very honest.
Someone once questioned me as totell me if you're a Chicana
(26:42):
artist.
Are you really a Chicana artist?
You know, and it was like theSpanish Inquisition or
something.
I mean, it was like, and it waslike, why do I have to prove
that?
And I am.
Yo soy, you know, soy Chicana.
And anyway, the exhibit wastaken away from me.
(27:03):
because of it.
But I think I got the lastlaugh.
But anyway, I just feel that mywork, I hope, especially when I
do political work, because I doa lot of political work, and it
(27:26):
deals with immigration, it dealswith women's rights.
I just think that people don'tknow me as well.
And maybe some people know mefor my abstracts and not enough
for my pieces that are morefigurative or surreal.
(27:49):
But could you just...
Fine-tune your question just alittle more because I did
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
start to wonder.
No worries.
But I think, as you were saying,the Spanish Inquisition style of
questioning who's Chicano andwho's not, but also the fact
that there were very few womenwithin the cohort.
We have wonderful people likeJudy Baca and Yolanda Lopez,
(28:18):
but...
Among them were many more, andthose people did not get center
stage.
Many times because of thosequestions, are you really
Chicano or Chicana?
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
The other thing you pointed out, I think it's a big
problem.
I'll tell you, when...
My friends get together, myfriend Linda Areola, and we all
get together and we talk aboutwhy isn't there more
representation or there isn'treally a focus on representation
(29:01):
women Chicano artists.
I mean, there are not that many.
Okay.
And I have to say the men tendto get the limelight.
There's a lot more of them.
But honestly, when we weremaking lists at one point at
breakfast, I was horrified tofind out like how few there are,
(29:23):
you know, and they don't get thedue respect because, you know,
and I'm not necessarily talkingabout myself, but there's people
that really paid their duesChicana artists you know and
women artists basically okaythat don't get their dues they
don't get their respect and thatis going to change I really feel
(29:45):
right now that there's a lot ofthings that are going on
politically the museums have tochange the galleries have to
change it's time right I
SPEAKER_04 (30:01):
mean It has been my observation that in this last
little period of time that theyare the most vocal and the most
outraged about things that arehappening.
You know, it's a completelydifferent reaction and
temperament to the men artistsin the group.
The women are just like, enoughof this shit, you know.
(30:22):
I mean, that's kind of theattitude I get.
which is good, you know?
It takes a lot of bravery to dothat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
And I don't know whether it's because we don't
have the limelight on us and wecan do whatever the
you-know-what that we want to dowithout any blowback.
Maybe when you're a little bitmore well-known, they're
expecting the same old, same oldfrom you.
I don't know.
But Soy Chicana was definitely ajourney for me.
(30:53):
I was enraged when I did thatpiece.
It was the beginning of, youknow, 45's speech she gave.
And I was, I mean, it was alsohate radio.
(31:14):
Actually, it was during the timeof the hate radio.
And I said to myself, you knowwhat?
I have a voice and my voice ismy art.
And the title Soichikana to mewas a declaration similar to
when Jesse Jackson gave hisspeech of, I am somebody.
(31:39):
And so that piece really says,I'm here and I'm great.
SPEAKER_04 (31:48):
The great thing about the whole Chicano
category, Chicana category, isthat it's a self-declared
section.
You have to declare yourself aChicano in order to be one.
There's no box on the censusthat you can check off and
there's Hispanic or, you know,but the Chicano, Chicana is not
(32:11):
recognized as an officialcategory.
It's a voluntary category, butyou can get a PhD in Chicano
studies from Harvard University.
So what's the message?
We don't exist.
It is truly a phantom culturethat is really the mainstream.
I mean, as far as I'm concerned,because of the longevity, the
(32:32):
specificity of the vision ofthis group of painters, and it's
expanding all the time, the manystates it has been from
California to New York, And forthe length of time that it has
endured and continues to evolve,that there's an argument to be
made that the Chicano School ofArt is maybe the most important
(32:56):
and pertinent school of art everin the history of the United
States.
SPEAKER_02 (32:59):
I agree.
And the other thing I would liketo see, I'd like to see it open
up to other styles.
I think there's room enoughfor...
You don't have to just paint onething.
SPEAKER_04 (33:16):
That's part of the deal.
Once you've established yourselfas a Chicano artist and they
know where you're coming fromand what your identification and
what your inspiration is, then Ithink at a certain point it
gives you freedom to paintanything you want.
If you come back and forthbecause your name is
established, they see yourthing, they know your political
(33:38):
beliefs, they know your beliefsabout women or children or the
workforce or what whatever thatis and you you it is almost like
getting invested and aninvestiture ceremony that okay
you've you've shown your bonafides and and now you can do
whatever you want you know
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
and it's it's freedom to me that's why i don't
like people to put me in a box iam a chicana artist and whatever
comes out of this body in thesehands That's my work, and so
it's by a Chicana artist.
SPEAKER_04 (34:15):
Well, you know, but there's also a...
a philosophy, let's put it that,would be behind Chicano art.
And it addresses something.
It addresses political issues orwomen issues.
And that's part and parcel aswell as you can be an abstract.
But those qualities are whatdefine the school in the
(34:39):
beginning.
And how you interpret that goingforward is your particular
explanation of everything thatmade you.
And that's...
That's really, really goodbecause you don't have to be
just one thing.
Todd, do you have anotherquestion?
I
SPEAKER_05 (34:55):
do.
CC, you talked a little bitabout self-help graphics and
your exposure there being aturning point for you.
Will you talk a little bit abouthow your work has evolved since
that time and sort of what thatevolution has been like for you
and maybe what inspired some ofit?
Were there other big turningpoints, other bends in that
(35:15):
road?
And what were those influences?
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Well, I definitely said, like I said, self-help
graphics.
I met people that I couldreally, you know, talk about
art, learn a lot of differentmethods because self-help
graphics did offer, you know,you could do...
all different types of things,etching, watercolor, anything
(35:46):
that you wanted to.
So I started learning a lot ofnew techniques.
I mean, I was doing some wildthings in Westwood, drawings and
all this and that, but there, Ithink I really honed a lot of my
techniques, my artwork.
(36:08):
And I also, because of myawareness at self-help and a lot
of issues that I was not awareabout, immigration and
underprivileged areas and stuff,it changed my art.
It started to reflect in my artwhat I was being exposed to.
(36:33):
And I think that was really,really important.
Other turning points, I justthink...
you start getting confidence.
I mean, the fact that, you know,when Cheech collected Soy
Chicana and my other work, Imean, I remember driving on the
(36:54):
2 Freeway and Stephen fromChimaya says, guess what?
Cheech just bought Soy Chicana.
And it was like, whoa! And I,you know, I...
No, and I missed my exit on thefreeway.
I didn't realize I was driving.
I was all the way almost toBurbank by that time.
(37:19):
And so those kinds of thingssupport, I think support from
the community, other collectors,really, and they're
acknowledging your work, youknow?
I mean, some of them can stayand live with me, you know, for
a long time.
(37:40):
But when somebody actually, youknow, purchased something like
that and then displays it andthen it traveled for so many
months and years.
I mean, that's very, veryspecial.
That's very special.
SPEAKER_04 (37:55):
One of my mantras during this whole process from
the beginning of collection tonow is that you cannot love or
hate Chicano art unless you seeit.
And I've always had thisreaction when people come to see
it.
Oh, I didn't know it was goingto be like this.
I like this, you know.
Okay, well, thank you very much.
I like it too.
I'm glad you came.
(38:16):
And tell your friends, you know,spread the word.
Because that's the process thatwe're in now.
And with the establishment ofthe Cheechin Riverside, it is
official.
You know, I mean, it reallyrepresents a milestone that we
have our first Chicano museumthat represents kind of...
the breadth and depth of thehistory of the arts.
(38:39):
You can see how it developed.
So, but I found that the wheelsof progress grind exceedingly
slow in the museum world.
I mean, it's a very, becauseit's the final imprimatur of
acceptance, cultural acceptance,you know, once you have a
museum, you're on your way, butyou get into the museum world
(38:59):
and they say, well, come back in25 years.
If you're still there, we'llkind of consider you on the
first row.
on.
Okay.
I get it.
I hope I live that long, youknow, but it's, but you know,
it's, you want change to happenfast.
You want change to happenyesterday, but in the art where
they rarely do, you know, and ifthey do happen that fast, they
(39:21):
don't last, you know?
So we want long lasting andinfluential work as we go
forward.
And that's what I see in yourwork.
I was like, I couldn't even seethe whole thing because it's
sagged in the middle.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
No, but Stephen did need a big piece and he, he
didn't realize it was going tobe so warm that day.
So I stepped on sliding down.
He goes, you got to dosomething, but I don't know,
Stephen, what can we do?
And he goes, we got to think ofsomething, you know,
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
but we'll sell it to cheese.
That's an idea.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
You know, I have to tell you, it immediately got
attention.
I mean, people really love that.
SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
It is a good, it's a wonderful piece, you know, and,
and it goes through this processabout it.
You know, if we're going to,well, what are we going to put
on the cover of the, of thecatalog or the book, you know,
and then had three or four ofthem now.
And it always, it comes to me inthe middle of the night, you
know, Oh, that one.
Yeah.
That's absolutely perfect.
And that's, I didn't go throughthat process with your work.
(40:21):
I knew it was going to be thecover immediately because it
fit, you know, it fit the whole,the whole book concept of
wraparound.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:31):
Yeah.
It was beautiful.
And, you know, as a previousgraphic designer, I saw that,
how it worked really well.
And, you know, Soy Chagana, Imean, that has so many
symbolisms in it.
I don't know, I mean, you knewit had the Pledge of Allegiance
(40:56):
in Soy Chagana.
But, and I was talking tosomebody and, you know, it's a
blending of two cultures thatcame together.
I mean, granted it was, youknow, what happened in the
Americas, but it also, I thinkcan, that people that are of
(41:18):
color can, I think can reallyunderstand that because we are,
you know, with the Pledge ofAllegiance, that means, you
know, just because we're peopleof color or come from different
areas, we don't even questionour patriotism.
(41:45):
So that piece was very specialto me.
It jumped off the wall.
SPEAKER_04 (41:52):
It looks like it was trying to get away from the wall
when I first thought.
Let me out here.
Find me a home.
Because it was so heavy when Iwent up to touch.
Because I always touch the art.
And this is heavy.
It's on canvas.
Or what was it on?
I can't remember.
But it was like no wonder it'sdrooping, man.
(42:13):
So I had to get it stretched andframed first of all.
And so I have a theory aboutframing.
The framing either stops thepainting or continues the
painting.
And And so I, you know, try todo something that's appropriate,
but always to the end offeaturing the painting, how to
(42:36):
best show it off.
You know, if you have a womanwith a great figure, you want
something skin tight, you know,if it's, if something else you
want something else.
And, and so it, I put this bigred lacquer frame around it and
it was like beautiful.
And Stephen from Chimaya cameover to the house to see it.
And he goes, I had it hanging inthe hallway.
It goes, oh, wow, I didn't knowthat that work was so good.
(43:00):
But it kind of rung, you know,because, no, okay, you're
supposed to look at this, youknow, and the frames do that.
And sometimes the paintingdoesn't need a frame.
I like to show off the painting.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
Oh, it definitely needed a frame, and I thought
you picked a great color.
And it doesn't fall off the wallanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
And it doesn't fall off the wall no more.
So what is the inspiration thatmakes you do something abstract
or figurative orrepresentational when you go
walk to the canvas?
Do you have an idea?
I better get to the canvasbecause I have this idea.
Or do you like, I'm going to sitin front of the canvas and see
what happens.
(43:40):
And it's either abstract orrepresentational.
Is that a conscious effort thatyou've thought of an idea?
And you go to the canvas toexecute it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Well, it's very interesting.
There are times where I justwill attack the canvas and it's
a matter of color and feelingand shapes and everything.
And even if, you know, andsometimes I will just leave it
alone like that.
There have been other timeswhere I've done an abstract and
said, you know what?
(44:10):
I think it needs a little bit ofsome type of color.
figure or drawing on it and Iwill never dictate to the
painting really what it'ssupposed to do it kind of tells
me when it needs something butnormally when I'm doing
(44:32):
something political it tends tobe it tends to be in a
figurative sense You know, I dohave one piece that I actually
there's a couple of pieces in myhouse.
One is called Asylum.
It's a total abstract, but ithas to do with undocumented
(44:56):
immigrants.
And then I don't know if you seethat one right on that corner,
but that's called Remains of theConquest.
So it really depends on thelanguage and what I want to say,
you know, how forceful I want tosay something about, you know,
(45:18):
something usually political.
Like I say, I have a sketchbook.
I will sit and I will draw and Iwill document.
It's kind of like an illustrateddiary.
And I will document what's goingon, you know, in the world and
my life.
in my life.
(45:38):
I have, you know, there's acouple of books like this on our
president, ex-president 45.
And it's amazing when I lookback on it.
I also have one that I did on9-11.
And there are drawings in therethat I can't believe I did that.
(46:00):
Wow.
You know, and it's just almostlike a stream of consciousness.
SPEAKER_04 (46:04):
So when you start to work, do you work to it till you
finish it?
Or do you get to a certain pointand say, I need to get away from
this for a little while and walkaway and leave home and
hitchhike across the U.S.
and then come back and finishit?
Or what's the process?
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
It depends.
If I, like the sage, when Iwanted to say something like
that, I knew that it had to havesome figurative pieces in there.
There are other pieces that I'vedone that have like one piece
that has A huge avocado.
And it was kind of likeabstract.
(46:41):
But then I felt that it needed afigurative piece.
So at first, it wasn't planned.
It just happened.
And I like the freedom of doingwhatever I feel that the
painting needs or the paintingis telling me that it needs.
(47:04):
When I was a young girl, artistin my apartment, when I would
paint small pieces, I wouldbring them at night of acrylic,
not oil.
I'd bring them into my bedroom,sit them on a chair right on the
side of my bed, go to sleep andwake up and look The first thing
(47:25):
my eyes went to was thatpainting.
And I would eyeball it and say,okay, this is wrong on that
painting.
You know, it was those fresheyes looking at that piece.
So, you know, sometimes it canbe instinct.
Sometimes it can be a stream ofconsciousness.
(47:45):
I tend to work very, very muchlike with stream of
consciousness.
So Ichigana, I mean, those, thefigurative type of work, I tend
to work like continuously.
And in fact, when I did SoyChicana, I was living in a small
apartment and my husband was,you know, we had just gotten
(48:06):
married and I had to roll itacross, you know, the wall and
across the door.
And I told him, could you pleasecall me when you come home?
Because do not open the door,there's a painting there.
And basically, I would just drawand draw and draw and draw, you
know, until I, you know, I hadto take it down and then put it
(48:31):
up the next day and draw anddraw and draw.
But where there's a will,there's a way.
SPEAKER_04 (48:36):
I've heard this story, a similar story from a
lot of, mainly the womenartists, because they're
painting in small studio-ishkinds of things that are, that's
their apartment, house, garage,whatever that's conjoined.
And it's always, they always Ijust want to do a gigantic
piece, you know?
So the problem always arises,you know, like, well, how do I
(48:57):
even fit it in the house and howdo I get perspective on it?
And how do I back up?
And, you know, it's a process,but, but the determination in
the finishing the project alwaysshines through.
I mean, like determined to dothis because abstract, you can
come back a year later and keepon going, I guess, you
SPEAKER_02 (49:16):
know?
Yeah.
But I know when it's finished, Ifeel it.
You know, during the pandemic, Imean, I never stopped painting.
And most of them are abstract.
I have this little piece here,which has an interesting story
to it.
It was my husband's firsthaircut during pandemic.
(49:38):
And what I did was the clippingsof his hair, I took and I mixed
into the paint.
SPEAKER_04 (49:45):
Is this Santeria or something?
Is it a process?
Was there chickens involvedhere?
SPEAKER_02 (49:50):
It was just a different texture.
SPEAKER_04 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
I see.
You can't see it, but I knowit's there.
I mean, that's my personalcollection.
And it's called, you know, Hairof the Dog.
And we call him the Big Dog.
So it's called the Hair of theDog.
Did
SPEAKER_04 (50:10):
he appreciate that?
SPEAKER_02 (50:12):
Yeah, he claims that now as his.
SPEAKER_04 (50:14):
Well, you know, Hair of the Dog.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Hair of the Dog,
SPEAKER_04 (50:18):
yes.
Yeah, Dave.
So what is your consists ofthese days getting up and and uh
And doing what?
SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
I'm very disciplined.
Yeah.
I have to tell you.
I mean, you can't have somebodyto say, well, don't you think
you should draw now?
Or don't you think you should goin your studio?
I'm very disciplined.
And we get up in the morning.
He goes on his side of thehouse.
I go into my studio because wehave a house now.
So it's bigger.
(50:47):
That's nice.
I paint.
I paint.
I, it's my nature to becreative.
That's what I do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even taking care of my mom,when I have to take care of my
mom, I would, you know, sheprobably would say stop already,
but I would, you know, dress herup like, you know, maybe Frida
(51:09):
Kahlo, a little shell, a littleshawl.
I would try to even bring thatcreativity to her.
I took a lot of photographs ofher.
So it's something that is partof me.
SPEAKER_03 (51:22):
When
SPEAKER_02 (51:22):
I was a child, they would say, Cece, please, can't
we just do, no, we're going tocreate this and it's my nature
to, you know, to make things to,you know, whatever it's going to
be.
I just, I love the ability tocreate and it's a gift.
SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
Yeah, it is.
I mean, artists generally knowthey're going to be artists very
soon in their life, you know,because they can't help, but
pick up the pencil and paper anddraw something on it.
I mean, it's just, it's likesingers, you know, singers sing
all the time.
I mean, they wake up singing andthey go, you know, they eat
dinner singing and they go outto the yard and say, but
(52:07):
painters are the same way.
You know, it's just, they'requieter.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Yes.
I mean, when I go into my, mystudio, it's my sanctuary and,
You know, everything I leave, orat least I try, leave everything
outside that door.
And I am in my zone, you know,and I love it.
SPEAKER_04 (52:31):
So what's inspiring you lately?
What are you doing right now?
SPEAKER_02 (52:36):
Right now, I'm starting to produce work coming
out of the pandemic.
And I feel it's like, and thisis for everybody, it's like a
renaissance.
It's going to be a renaissance,a rebirth.
And so I'm doing new work rightnow.
So I'm very excited.
I mean, it's like, let's get offwith the mask.
(52:57):
I'm vaccinated.
And let's start doing Rollingnow.
Let's start working.
SPEAKER_04 (53:04):
I think so.
I absolutely think so.
I think the artists are theavatars of the age and they see
things coming greatly a longdistance away.
And we have to kind of listen toours because of the advanced
sensors of anywhere we're going.
So I think we're going to comeout of this pandemic happy.
(53:25):
Totally changed.
We're not going back to the waywe used to do things.
And it's just not going tohappen because we're going to be
faster, more streamlined, morecommunicative throughout the
world.
And that's kind of what weneeded.
You know, it is really what weneed.
And so we're learning a newlanguage and a new rhythm right
now.
And that is going to, I think,in the end, save us.
SPEAKER_02 (53:48):
Yes, I agree.
There's going to be so many liketechnology.
I mean, so many new things.
I mean, I'm not saying I waslike thrilled throughout the
whole pandemic, but for the mostpart, I was doing what I
normally do and that's pain.
But I think I'm very excitedabout, you know, the new year
(54:09):
and what's going to happen.
SPEAKER_04 (54:11):
Yeah, we're going to see some amazing things and it's
going to go very fast.
And the fundamental way we dobusiness in the world is in the
midst of change right now.
And it's going to happen veryrapidly.
It's happening very rapidly.
You know, the new norms arelike, well, we're not going to
come back to work if we don'tget a living wage.
(54:32):
That's going on right now.
People cannot, the companiesdon't have enough workers, no
matter what they do, if it'stechnological making rockets or,
you know, shoes.
We're reconfiguring how weapproach that, how we make
better, faster, cheaper, youknow, more outstanding products.
(54:53):
And that's happening right now.
And people are going to have toadjust to that.
SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Absolutely.
And equality and women artists,their presence in museums and
galleries, you know, that'sgoing to, I think it's a good
thing.
SPEAKER_04 (55:10):
Yeah, I don't think I don't see why they shouldn't,
you know, women painters orartists are as talented or maybe
more in some cases than anybodyelse so that they should get
their day and continue to gettheir day.
You know, I've, I've, I wasmarried to a painter once since
I've, I've heard this rightbefore, you know, so, so I, you
(55:32):
just, yeah, you know, I had a,my wife, she complained about
now we're getting, you know,with women are excluded.
She had more shows than anyperson I've ever seen in my
life.
You know, but but I can seethat, you know, her point.
And but but that's going tochange.
And also, we need to findeventually at some point how to
to ramp up the commercialelement and people that promote
(55:58):
the work in order to, OK, thiscan go good and over your couch,
you know, kind of because theart world and the art market is
like the stock market.
It goes up, it goes down.
It gets discovered.
It was big today and not bigtomorrow.
So it takes constantreinforcement in the form of
(56:21):
dollars.
And that's the half of the artworld.
And the other half is the museumworld.
And to balance those two things,and they should work in
conjunction with each other in aperfect world.
So we'll see where that comesout.
I
SPEAKER_01 (56:38):
think that's one of the beautiful things about the
touring programs And I reallythink that's been my most
exciting thing about workingwith you is because it's so
innovative for you as acollector.
That's why I really don't evenlike to call you a collector.
I think of you as an artadvocate because your voice, you
have really elevated voices ofeveryone in the community and
(56:58):
the artistic community.
And that's been such a pleasurefor me personally to watch.
And just even doing theseprograms right now.
I mean, honestly, just this isour third of four programs and
this is so exciting.
exciting to hear voices, notonly of the artists that you
have in the collection, but alsoartists and curators who have
worked with, I mean, to reallyget to know Chris today and to
(57:22):
continue that conversationbeyond today.
That's also really great.
One thing you said in one of ourlast programs, Cheech, was that
you talked about that you don't,again, you want to speak to all
audiences because here I am, I'mevidently not a Chicana I
identify with the community inmany ways because I have been so
(57:45):
involved with it for the past 20years but I think the best thing
that you have done too is notagain elevating artists who are
and giving them voice not onlyto their own community but to
communities at large and Ilooked at just even the tour
schedule for example that webrought the papel Chicana dose
and there's nine um museums thatactually showed it and it's
(58:08):
Tulsa Oklahoma um Lake Miami,Wyoming, Riverside.
Of course, that's actually howwe got to know Riverside.
Thank God.
I love it.
San Diego, Anaheim.
It's now in Colorado.
So we're really canvassing alllevels of different cities
across the country and reachingso many communities.
And I think that's really sogreat of you in that way.
(58:32):
And then also elevating whatyou're doing to elevate artists
like Cece, you know, just reallysharing her work.
I think I'm so excited aboutthat.
I'm sure what do you think aboutit cc i'm sure that you're just
like um we were talking theother day margaret has a piece
that was elevated a lot withchicana visions this is your
piece or chicana really has isee it all the time when i go on
(58:55):
the internet and look upexhibitions in chicana white it
pops up have you seen a lot ofattention with that
SPEAKER_02 (59:01):
oh lots of attention i mean you know people that i i
don't know or other artists thatyou know want to talk to me
about about it.
I have a lot of people that, youknow, they ask me about soy
chicana and they They just wantto know how they can get their
(59:23):
pieces in a museum and stuff.
And I just want them just towork and work and work.
But it's made me so very proudto have Soichigana in the Chichi
Collection, I have to tell you.
I mean, I know Sonia had saidthat, you know, when you have
one of your pieces in a museum,it's like you've arrived, you
(59:46):
know?
Yeah, and it...
I am very proud.
I am very proud.
I mean, it's kind of like Idon't have children, but it's
like my child did really welland it's gone on and, you know,
has a life of its own andsomething.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:06):
It's exactly what I mean.
You get lifted to a place ofreverence.
When you see it, oh, I likethis.
I thought Chicano art was goingto be a picture of a guy
sleeping under a cactus with apot of beans.
No, it is the most sophisticatedgroup of painters that are
(01:00:31):
working today in the UnitedStates and maybe the world that
have been long lived over anumber of years, over a number
of states and the country.
I think it really representsAmerica more than any other
school of of work that I've everseen.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00:48):
But that's a little bit of my life on that wall in
that museum.
it's a beautiful thing I have
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:59):
to say I think one of the things that we haven't
spoke a little bit about is yourrole as a mentor and as a
teacher both of youth and otherartists and kind of the emerging
generation and how you getinspiration from that too so if
you can speak a little bit aboutwhat was that experience of
really working with youthespecially as you said maybe
(01:01:25):
disadvantaged communities or atsome point even incarcerated
youth.
I thought you had shared that inpart of your journey.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:36):
You know, it really, it was very eye-opening to me
when I was working for a groupcalled Theater of Hearts.
And For some reason, I wasalways sent to the camps and
usually boys camps.
(01:01:56):
And I had never been exposed tothat kind of, you know, a camp,
juvenile camp.
It's basically their prisons,right?
I would go in there and theywould check all my supplies and
then the door would lock.
(01:02:18):
There were guards, you know.
And I would go into theclassroom and, you know,
everybody loves art.
Come on.
Who doesn't love art?
Well, there are some people whowon't do art.
And I would have to kind of coaxthem into it.
But I had met some of the mosttalented young people at that
(01:02:42):
place.
And I would wonder, like, I evenasked them, what are you doing
here?
You know, I mean, they showed...
a lot of talent.
They showed a lot ofintelligence.
And also because I kind of like,you know, I do surreal, but I
(01:03:03):
love surreal also.
There was a lot of surrealimages within their drawings.
But I also would neverdiscourage somebody.
I don't care how bad they drew.
I always, always encourage thembecause you never know where
(01:03:24):
that might take them orsomething in their head can
click you know and you know it'skind of like you can do this too
you know I don't know whatyou've done but I have to say
most of them in there were fordrugs they had a bad attorney or
no attorney they were like youknow 15 or 16 years old And they
(01:03:47):
were sitting in these God awfulcamps and it was heartbreaking.
It's tough to teach in a placelike that.
I also taught at a place where alot of the kids were drugged
because maybe they weredifficult to handle and they
would sit there and drool out oftheir mouths.
(01:04:09):
And I just thought somebodyshould be able to reach them.
I mean, it shouldn't be awarehouse of our youth.
And there were black youth,brown youth.
There was also Aryan Nation inthere.
(01:04:30):
And so it was an experience thatI just think...
that something has to be done.
Something has to change.
But it was the most rewardingprobably thing that I've ever
(01:04:51):
done.
And I'm also very proud of thatbecause they gave a lot more
back to me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04:57):
Seems like sometimes that group of youth needs
somebody to Listen to them orgive them a chance, you know, or
show them some attention.
It's an aspect that they lackand they really want.
And encouragement is always thebest thing.
Todd, any other questions?
SPEAKER_05 (01:05:19):
Yeah, thanks.
So you talked a little bit aboutthis renaissance, this point of
renaissance where we are, andI'm interested to know where in
that moment or this particularmoment you are finding
inspiration.
And is it and are you finding ittaking you in a new direction or
is it amplifying work that youwere doing either during the
(01:05:40):
pandemic or are you returning tothemes and and things from from
before the pandemic?
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:48):
No, it's going to have to be fresh.
And I'm going to beexperimenting on some new
things.
You know, found objects.
Just I like pushing myself.
I don't like to be stale.
I love going into Home Depot orsomeplace like that and look and
(01:06:14):
see and find things that I canincorporate into my artwork.
I want my work to be somethingnew and something that came out
of the pandemic that was forgood.
That's what I want to do.
And I'm really excited about it.
(01:06:34):
So we'll see what happens.
But the other thing is, thereare things that I will take with
me.
Everybody has been affected bythe pandemic.
So whether you know it or not,whatever you do, or when I'm
painting, that'll be an elementof what we went through, right?
(01:06:58):
But we turned it around, and I'mjust finding that it's going to
be a challenge, and I'm excitedto do
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:08):
it.
There's a question from JasonGonzalez that I wanted to share
with Cece.
He was wondering how your timeas a graphic designer,
especially the Ruff Young DIYaesthetic of the punk scene in
the waning days of stat camerasand the earliest days of
photocopiers, how did that– timeas a graphic designer inform
(01:07:29):
your approach to printmaking andpainting?
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:34):
I'll tell you, I actually was at Disney at the
time when computers startedhappening.
And I was very fortunate.
I was able to start learning atthat time.
And I would do some drawings.
It was right at the beginning.
(01:07:55):
We didn't have Photoshop oranything like that.
It was just kind of linedrawings.
But even now, I do use mycomputer skills to when I
photograph a painting, maybeit's even, you know, I'm in the
(01:08:15):
process of painting.
I take it into Photoshop.
I turn it around.
I look at it.
I change colors on it.
So it's a very helpful tool.
My husband happens to be in thevisual effects business.
So he uses that a lot.
(01:08:38):
But when I was working for theVillage Muse, there weren't
really, we didn't really use alot of computers.
We had to do everything the oldway, the
SPEAKER_04 (01:08:48):
old way.
Computer is just another brush.
It's what you do with thatbrush.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08:53):
We have one more question and we'll close.
It's a question from theaudience.
And the question was, Cece, canyou talk about your performative
art, especially the fabulousCalavera walking altars?
I actually hope those continuebecause I hope that maybe we can
help the tradition with theCheech.
I'd love to see that.
(01:09:14):
What do you think?
What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09:17):
Well, you know, we did those at Tropico de Nopal
and Reyes Rodriguez is the onethat put those together.
And I think I was in everysingle one except maybe one.
And the premise of the Day ofthe Dead day fashion show was
(01:09:38):
that you were supposed to picksomebody that, you know, an
artist or somebody that you werehonoring that had passed.
And as an artist, I usuallyalways chose an artist.
So I did the Siqueiros piece, Ithink was the most, it took the
(01:09:58):
most time.
And what I did was, was I triedto replicate the mural that's in
Olvera Street with a crucifixionof the Indian on the back of my
mural, because my piece was onebig mural, right?
(01:10:19):
And in the front was the face ofSiqueiros, but in 3D.
I don't know how I'm able to dothat, how I can figure out how
to do this.
I'm not a seamstress, but I sendI somehow can figure out how to
make things.
And it was extremely heavy.
And then I had a piece coming upthis way with the American Eagle
(01:10:44):
over here sitting on my head.
And it was I was the finale.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10:51):
I was I was there.
And that's actually the firsttime I saw you.
I never met you.
But it was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10:58):
It was it was wonderful piece.
And it was I had made it out ofburlap.
So and then the burlap wasscratchy.
So I had to put some kind offleece or something inside so it
wouldn't scratch me.
Right.
So.
I created this whole tribute toSiqueiros.
(01:11:20):
I put it on, I thought, this ispretty good.
And then I kept it on a littlelonger because I had to keep my
arms up like this.
And I thought, damn, this isreally heavy.
But what I did was I stuck apole on the back of my neck
through the costume so it wouldhold my arms up.
(01:11:41):
And then you had to balanceyourself too, you know?
So that is a wonderful piece.
Siqueiros' face and his hand,the 3D hand coming out like
this.
I mean, it really worked.
I was really surprised.
I have six costumes.
One of it is to Picasso, too.
(01:12:01):
Oh,
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:02):
really?
It's like when you see the batsignal, you put it on and run
out the door?
SPEAKER_02 (01:12:07):
Well, everybody has their own costume, each artist.
And my friend Abel used to alsobe in the show, and he did some
great costumes.
So all the artists have theircostumes at their house.
So they belong to us.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:26):
Maybe we'll revive that tradition somewhere along
the line.
That's a good way to go.
We
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:32):
need to have it at the grand opening.
Let's talk.
Maybe there's something fun wecan do.
Well, I really want to thank youso much for joining us today
because this was like amazing.
I know Cheech, how would you,why don't you say some closing
words and then I'll do theclose.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:47):
Well, I'm really delighted to give you a space to
explain your art and to just beseen by the public to know that
you're there and doing greatwork that has been featured as
much as I can feature it inevery show.
But we see the length andbreadth and depth of the artist
(01:13:08):
pool that we have to draw from.
And they're talented.
There's a lot of them.
And they're younger and they'reolder.
at the same time.
And that's what I like aboutthat.
You know, there is somethingreverence given to OGs, you
know, if they're notChicanosaurus, I guess.
(01:13:30):
But it's a continuous line.
It's a continuous line ofinspiration that we're dealing
with now.
And it goes from Chicanosaurusto Latinx.
And this is a coming together.
Every generation likes to beknown for themselves, but
they're a part of the tradition.
that is still continuing.
And it gives voice to thingsthat we think are right in this
(01:13:55):
world.
So thank you very much forcontributing to it, you know,
because it's a very strongvoice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14:01):
Cece, again, thank you for being our star today.
We're very excited.
Please check out Cece's work onher Instagram account.
That's where she's most prolificas well as her Facebook.
But her Instagram account isCece, which is C-I-C-I dot
Segura dot Gonzalez.
And that's with two Z's.
Her artwork is on view currentlyat the Colorado Springs Fine
(01:14:24):
Arts Centers through august 7thminute comes home to california
to learn more about the cheechplease visit thecheechcenter.org
for show notes links and artworkimages that were mentioned in
this program please visitcauseconnect.net that post will
be transferred over toriversideartmuseum.org later
(01:14:44):
this summer when they get theirnew website and of course it'll
be on thecheechcenter.org aswell now thanks again this
series was presented byriverside art museum it was made
possible through the generosityof the Union Pacific Foundation.
Welcome
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
to Sun Quatro in Conversation.
This series is by Riverside ArtMuseum, aka RAM, leading up to
its opening of the CheechMudding Center for Chicano Art
and Culture, aka the Cheech.
I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks.
And today, there are four of us.
In conversation with my friendand artist, Cece
(00:38):
Segura-Gonzalez, Ton Woodgate,Director of Exhibitions and
Collections at Riverside ArtMuseum, Chris Gorza, the Helena
Rubinstein Chair of Education atthe Whitney Museum of American
Art, and the incomparable CheechMarine, entertainer, filmmaker,
comedian, collector, and artadvocate.
(00:58):
I've worked with Cheech about 20years, and the best part of my
work is I get to work with him.
but also sometimes very rarely Iget to introduce a new artist to
him.
It doesn't happen very oftenbecause he's out there scouting
artists all the time.
And especially during thepandemic when he became really
prolific on Instagram.
(01:18):
So about 10 years ago, artwriter Matt Gleason called me
and asked if I would stop by hisChinatown Gallery Coagula
Curatorial.
He had a show at the timefeaturing works by Sisi.
And when I texted Cheech imagesof Cyclops and musical chairs,
he immediately said, get those,and then he placed them in our
(01:40):
nationally touring exhibition,Chichenitas, and its companion
catalog.
Todd, can you tell us a littlebit about Cece?
SPEAKER_05 (01:48):
Absolutely.
Thank you, Melissa.
Primarily an abstract artist,Cece Segura-Gonzalez also paints
figurative work using oil,acrylic, and watercolor,
utilizing printmaking techniquesto create woodcuts, etchings,
and monoprints.
She studied at East Los AngelesCollege, working with artist
mentors such as Roberto Chavez,Dale May, and and Uli Berg.
(02:09):
Like many Chicano artists, sheprinted at LA's Self-Help
Graphics under the guidance ofSister Karen Boca Calero and has
taught at-risk youth.
She has worked for manycompanies such as the Walt
Disney Company as an in-housegraphic designer, a storyboard
artist, fashion illustrator, andart director.
For the annual Tropico de NopalCalavera fashion show in Los
(02:31):
Angeles, she has createdcostumes over the years in
homage to art icons such asRufino Tamayo and David Altaro
Sequeros.
Widely collected andinternationally, Her artwork
also is included in major U.S.
publications and privatecollections.
Her work is featured on thecover of the catalog for Propel
Chicano Dos, works on paper fromthe Cheech Marine Collection,
(02:54):
which is on view currently atthe Colorado Springs Fine Arts
Center now through August 7th.
So my first question is forCheech.
And Cheech, would you tell us alittle bit about how you came to
know Cece and started acquiringher work?
SPEAKER_04 (03:11):
Well, I was, thanks to I was alerted to her by
Melissa, first at that Coagula,whatever that name is, and Matt
Gleason's gallery in downtown inChinatown.
And I didn't see the works inperson, but I saw them on a
computer and it was, oh, theywere fascinating to me.
(03:32):
I love the craftsmanship inthem.
And so that's how I, and then Iwent down to Chimao, the other
gallery, to see them in person.
And then I was really impressed.
And the main work that I boughtwas Soy Chicana.
We just straightened out thetitle of that.
Soy Chicana, which is a big, alarge piece.
(03:54):
And I was knocked over by it,but mostly because of the way it
was hung.
I mean, she had, looks like itwas still wet, you know, or
something.
She had barely rolled it up andthen somebody just, they just
tacked it on the wall and it's alarge piece.
So, There was a kind of likehung suede in the middle, you
(04:15):
know, but I knew it was a majorpiece right away.
And so we conducted a deal forthat.
The thing that was fascinatingme most about CeCe, you CeCe, is
that I had never heard of youbefore.
And that's like, well, how did Imiss this lady?
You know, and it was like hidingin plain sight, it seems to me
(04:39):
at the end of the day, becauseyou had been involved in the
movement earlier with all theself-help graphics and all the
other places that you showed andworked at.
But I didn't know your name andI didn't know your work and it
would seem kind of hidden.
And then when I started talkingto you, I found out your
(04:59):
background that I think thatthat same time we were working
for Disney, you know?
And so I said, well, this is abreakthrough.
We're smuggling Chicanos intoDisney now.
This is good.
But it was kind of hidden by thecorporate world that you were
in, but the work was coming out.
And so as I investigatedfarther, I saw more and more
(05:21):
work that is half abstract andhalf figurative.
And that's an interestingcombination, you know, because
people approach it different andhow they connect with it or
what's the word I'm trying tosay empathize with it or relate
to it you know so that wasreally interesting but what was
(05:45):
also amazing is that you werevery prolific and I like that
part you know because all myfavorite artists are the ones
who are very prolific you knowthere's some artists that take a
long time to do one painting andthat's That's their process, and
that's good.
But I like painters who paintevery day, you know, because it
just evolves out of them,really.
(06:07):
You know, sometimes you get tothe point, it seems, as talking
to artists, where you're almostan instrument of whatever the
muse or whatever the inspirationis.
I know I feel that same way as awriter.
When you're writing somethingand you think it's going to go
this way, you have an idea inyour head about the characters,
and they just take off.
(06:28):
No, this is how I want to be.
You just are seeing it now.
And I think that's the way withpainters because although very
studied, it's a very spontaneousprocess at the same time that
you don't know when thatinspiration is going to strike
and start guiding your hand.
So that was always a verydefinite part of your work.
(06:52):
And also the technique.
You use a lot of differenttechniques in the same canvas or
in the And I love the texturethat it brings to every single
one of those paintings.
And that's always very, verygood to me.
Very attractive to me anyways.
(07:13):
But I was still always trying tofigure out.
But you started a self-helpgallery.
What was this punk gallery thatyou showed at, Cece?
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
Well, actually, it was one of the first punk
stores, New Wave Stores inWestwood.
Thank you.
And yes, I was working forLevi's Strauss, Levi's for Gals,
as a receptionist showroommodel.
And somebody turned me on to afriend of theirs that needed
(07:44):
somebody to, an artist to workat their Westwood store.
And it was a wild ride.
We had great times.
It was, you know, the music.
I did all their advertisements.
design clothes for them.
(08:04):
And it was an amazing time to bethere.
And it was like, you know, late70s, early 80s.
And And I think I did mentionthat Richard Duardo came into
that store.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_04 (08:18):
and you had pink and turquoise hair at the same time?
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
I had turquoise hair, and my friend Martha had
pink hair.
And I'll tell you, when hewalked in, he looked very
divine, I have to say, dressedin this amazing suit.
And the pattern was like anindigenous pattern or an Aztec
pattern.
UNKNOWN (08:42):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
And he just eyeballed us and we eyeballed
him and it was like, what isthis all about?
And he was very, very sweet, muysimpatico.
And we were talking, you know,he was asking about the store
and then he invited us actuallyto his, the place, the studio
(09:04):
that he was working at.
And one day we went down thereand it was in Highland Park and
we walked into the studio.
I believe it was on Figueroa.
And you have to remember, Ididn't know any of these
artists.
And so he started introducing usto some of the artists and one
(09:25):
of them was Carlos Almaraz.
So, you know, actually he waslooking to do some silkscreen
for us.
because we were also doingsilkscreen t-shirts with some of
the punk clothes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:39):
For those of you who don't know who Richard Duarte
was, he was the head of ModernMultiples, which was the printer
of record in the Chicanocommunity early at Modern
Multiples.
I already said that.
And he printed everybody in themovement at that particular
time.
And to this day, he's like oneof the master printers.
He also did all the printing forthe Chicano Visions part of it,
(10:04):
where we had a a print of everysingle one of the artists that
were in the show.
Wonderful.
Unfortunately, he's passed on,and I'm still mad at him about
that.
But he was a great inspirationto the whole Chicano movement.
He introduced me to a lot ofartists over the years, and he
(10:25):
encouraged me to keep showing itlike I was going to do.
So you hooked up with the rightguy at the right time.
There
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
it is.
It was exciting.
You know, he came to see theVillage Muse in Westwood.
We came to see the studio inHighland Park.
Yeah.
It was wonderful.
SPEAKER_04 (10:44):
Did you work with him at any Prince?
No.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
No, I've never, I never had the opportunity, but I
would have loved to.
SPEAKER_04 (10:53):
I would love to.
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
I went to some of his parties.
SPEAKER_04 (10:56):
Yeah, well, those are good.
They went on for days.
Yeah.
He always used to show up at myhouse on Sunday morning with a
bucket of menudo and some pan dehuevo, you know, and we'd
discuss art.
It was great in those days.
So what is your educationalbackground?
You went to where?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
East LA College.
And I went there for about twoyears.
And then, you know, prior tothat, I worked in a factory to
get money to go to school.
And fortunately, I had to dropout of college.
And I just started, you know,getting into the workforce.
(11:36):
And so that's my one of my firstjobs was the showroom model at
Levi's for gals.
I did get a whole wardrobe.
It What
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
kind of
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
factory did you work
SPEAKER_04 (12:00):
in?
taught you the path of art afteryou got out of school or during
this process?
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
You know, as a young girl, I was always I was always
paint, drawing or something.
It's kind of a Lady Gaga song.
I was born this way.
I just naturally startedpainting and drawing.
But my dad was an artist, but hedidn't work as an artist.
(12:42):
But he would draw every nightwhen he would come home.
He would draw after he wasreading the newspaper.
And I would cut out those littlepictures and save every single
one of them.
And I do have a couple of hispaintings still.
But I actually never met anyother artists until I, I guess,
(13:07):
started working, to tell you thetruth.
I had gone to galleries, I hadgone to museums, but I had not
gone, I had not really met areal artist until I met the
German artist, Uli Berg.
SPEAKER_04 (13:21):
So how did you get in with Carlos Almaraz and all
those guys?
SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
I did not.
I was born in San Gabriel and II lived in Altadena.
So I kind of I don't have thatpedigree that a lot of people
have of the walkouts andeverything.
And I'll tell you a reallyinteresting story.
When I was working for theVillage News and I was traveling
to London, you know, seeing thepunks in London and doing work
(13:47):
there.
And I came back.
And there was a friend thatsaid, you know what, you should
go to self-help graphics.
And I said, what's that?
Well, you need to come, youknow, just check it out.
And I was always a human rightstype of person, right?
Very aware.
But when I went to self-helpgraphics, I have to tell you, I
(14:08):
was blown away.
I mean, a lot of political stuffthey were into, an awareness
that I have to tell you that Idid not have.
I came from a very strictfamily.
And so...
I wasn't allowed to wander, youknow, go to other areas or
anything.
And so it was a real awakeningfor me.
(14:32):
And I have to tell you, some ofthe artists there at that time
in the 90s at Self Help Graphicswere some of the most talented
artists ever.
I've ever met.
I mean, I was totally inspiredby them.
You know, Israel Rodriguez,Artemio Rodriguez was working
(14:54):
there at the time.
Polly Marichal, MarianneSadowski, just all these people,
a wealth of talent.
And it really made me aware ofwhat was happening in
underprivileged areas, too.
So, you know, it was a realturning point for me.
SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
Was that any influence on your divide between
doing abstract work andfigurative work?
Because there's two distinctfields that you work in.
Not that they're not related,but they're two distinct fields.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Well, at the Punkster, the Village Muse, I
did a lot of illustrations.
And, you know, at Disney, I dida lot of digital work,
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
But I had always drawn.
I always kept a journal.
SPEAKER_03 (15:45):
I
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
always drew in it.
When I started painting, I foundmyself really attracted to
shapes and shapes.
The force of the canvas, thesize of the canvas too, because
I like working large.
And then at a certain point, thetwo
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
came together.
Abel Ortiz mentioned somethingthat I thought was pertinent to
the discussion between you andCece just now.
And he says he relates to Cece'swork because he too explores and
speaks through both abstract andrepresentational imagery.
And he said for him, it feelslike that it relates to his
bilingual knowledge.
(16:26):
to not limit ourselves to onelanguage.
And that's what he sees inCece's work.
And I thought that was really agreat point.
And I was curious if Chris orCece or Cheech, if that, you
know, just kind of, what do youthink about that?
I thought it was really madesense.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
I love that, actually.
I absolutely feel the same way,I think, when I saw Sisi's
painting at the museum, saw howit was about being both
bilingual and bicultural.
And it's just that tension thatexists, but that love for
connecting the both that existsin our culture, where we can go
(17:06):
from you hablo espanol to youhablo ingles, in English
speaking, in a minute.
So it is a beautiful comparisonof what happens with abstraction
and representation, like the twolanguages that exist and
coexist.
So thank you, Ivo.
SPEAKER_04 (17:25):
You can see that in like Soy Chicana and some of the
other things that you do.
So do you identify more with theabstract or more with the
figurative?
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Well, that's a very interesting question.
Because I've been asked bygalleries, like you shouldn't do
abstract or do the figurative.
You have to choose one.
And I feel, no, I do exactlywhat I want to do.
SPEAKER_04 (17:54):
Right.
Sounds like an artist to me.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
But I really have to say self-help graphics.
When I went there and meteverybody, that was my tribe.
I realized like, this is what Iwant to do.
And this is where I belong.
And so it was quite powerful.
SPEAKER_04 (18:12):
When you kind of came out as a Chicano or I
started identifying with thatmovement, you were older than...
emerging artists.
So how did you identify at thatpoint?
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
Well, I have to say, you know, my parents were very,
I come from one of the oldfamilies of San Gabriel, where
everybody knew who we were, andreported back to my parents.
And they use the word Chicano asa derogatory term, right?
So a lot of people had that.
(18:46):
My parents are always veryproud, though, of being Mexican
and American.
My dad's Tex-Mex, you know, andhe doesn't let you, he never let
us forget that.
I just think I was always ahuman rights person.
When I was around more of thegente, I saw like a great need
(19:08):
for a voice in my artwork thatspoke to to what was happening
around me.
And I think it gave it eventhough I, you know, I wasn't in
my 20s, but I was aware of whatwas going on always, you know,
but I think it gave a freshnessto my to my work, even though I
(19:32):
was a little older.
Yeah.
that I came into it a littleolder.
SPEAKER_04 (19:37):
That was the one thing that surprised me when I
first met you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
That I was old?
SPEAKER_04 (19:41):
No, that you were older and making an appearance
for the first time.
I
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
was going to say a working girl.
We're
SPEAKER_04 (19:48):
all working girls, honey.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
I had to make a living.
I lived by myself.
I was a single woman.
I would come home from eighthours, nine hours, and set up my
easel and start painting untiltwo o'clock in the morning.
and then go to sleep and wake upand do the same thing all over
again.
And I was exhibiting and stuff.
(20:11):
I just, I don't know the, youknow, sure, I would have liked a
larger circle of where I showed,but that is something I think
that needs to be addressed, youknow, with things that are
happening now.
I think we need morerepresentation and people need
(20:32):
to see what's happening in a lotof different communities.
SPEAKER_04 (20:35):
It was interesting.
I was talking to Sonia Faye theother day when we had this
conversation and I told her thatwhat I've noticed is that the
women part of this movement, thefemales are more outraged by
injustices that I see.
They want to get to the canvasright away and to the easel
because they're just like...
(20:57):
that something really pisses youoff.
And even though you have animmediate inspiration, the
product that comes out at theend takes a long time.
I mean, this is a veryhandcrafted work that you do.
So it's not like you just don'tdash it off and here's my, it
represents emotion.
(21:17):
It doesn't, it representsemotion originally, but the
craftsmanship really comes intoit.
And that's the perfectmicrophone to use, to announce
the outrage, you know, and we'vehad plenty of chances in the
last years, you know, to like,what are you people?
And so to strike your voice, andthat's really what attracted me.
(21:44):
But as I see the painting behindyou, the abstract, I see now the
techniques that you use.
In the other work, in the otherfigurative works, you know, that
method of painting and themethod of drawing, that they
kind of flow together.
This is an remarkable work.
So then the question, do youidentify more with the abstract
(22:08):
or the figurative?
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
You know, that's a hard question because both of
those are me.
Yeah.
In my house, I have abstract.
My drawings were somethingabstract.
that were always a personal sideof me.
And like I said, I had alwayskept a journal.
I just felt that, I don't thinkI can make that call.
(22:30):
I think maybe when I merge themtogether, why that happens, I
just feel that there is a needto speak, because it's a
language that I'm speaking,right?
I mean, when I draw, It's a muchmore personal relationship with
(22:51):
the viewer that can kind of seewhere my head's at.
When I do abstract, they have tolook a little bit more carefully
into it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:01):
I love your abstract work.
I mean, you can just see itright there.
But I see some of the imagesthat morphed into similar
images, but...
put together to tell anarrative.
It's amazing.
You know, people are alwaysamazed by your work when I sell
it to them, but I have to screenthem.
SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
Well, this one's an oil.
And I tend, when I work withoil, I do a lot of layering.
I use also other materials likecharcoal and things like that.
So it's a real process.
And I'm a big nerd when it comesto painting and stuff like that.
(23:43):
I think most people who know mego, wow, she's really into it.
When I paint...
And it depends, especially saylike during the pandemic, when I
laugh, my canvas laughs.
When I cry, my canvas cries.
I really feel at one with mycanvas.
SPEAKER_04 (24:04):
It shows.
I mean, the unity in your workis amazing.
Chris, do you have a question?
We've been ignoring you as longas we could, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yes, yes, yes.
I have a couple of questions.
And again, thank you for makingme part of this conversation.
I had the pleasure to meet Ciciand seeing her work, Soy
Chicana, when it was firstpresented in Papel Chicano Doze
at the Museum of ContemporaryArt in San Diego.
(24:35):
And I fell in love with thepiece.
It was actually the centerpiecefor a large salon hanging of
Cheech Marin's collection at themuseum.
And I think what draw me to thework was that tension that
you're speaking about, theabstraction and the figuration,
the contemporary and thesymbolism of the
(24:58):
Mexican-American culture, all ofthose things coming together.
I love in that piece, how youhave sort of these very
cartoon-like, which now I takecomes from the inspiration of
the illustration work that wewere doing at Walt Disney,
Quetzalcoatl skulls in bonefigures and then the abstract
(25:21):
skirts that flow with the womenkind of running behind a
bullfight.
There's so much.
It's such a complex piece.
There's a lot of text that speakto your passion about human
rights and liberation.
But one of my big questions, andyou were alluding a little bit
to it, this sort of the role ofthe female artists in the sort
(25:44):
of Chicano movement arena andhow do you carve a space for
yourself.
So if you want to tell us alittle bit about how is that
kind of process of carving aspace for yourself, as Cheech
also mentioned, you seem to havebeen in front of everyone, but
at the same time, not as noticedby some of the people in the
(26:09):
movement.
But you certainly have madequite an appearance and we love
your work.
So do you want to chat a littlebit about that, Cece?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Well, being a Chicana, Latina artist, it was
something that, you know, somepeople, I have to tell you this,
I'm being very honest.
Someone once questioned me as totell me if you're a Chicana
(26:42):
artist.
Are you really a Chicana artist?
You know, and it was like theSpanish Inquisition or
something.
I mean, it was like, and it waslike, why do I have to prove
that?
And I am.
Yo soy, you know, soy Chicana.
And anyway, the exhibit wastaken away from me.
(27:03):
because of it.
But I think I got the lastlaugh.
But anyway, I just feel that mywork, I hope, especially when I
do political work, because I doa lot of political work, and it
(27:26):
deals with immigration, it dealswith women's rights.
I just think that people don'tknow me as well.
And maybe some people know mefor my abstracts and not enough
for my pieces that are morefigurative or surreal.
(27:49):
But could you just...
Fine-tune your question just alittle more because I did
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
start to wonder.
No worries.
But I think, as you were saying,the Spanish Inquisition style of
questioning who's Chicano andwho's not, but also the fact
that there were very few womenwithin the cohort.
We have wonderful people likeJudy Baca and Yolanda Lopez,
(28:18):
but...
Among them were many more, andthose people did not get center
stage.
Many times because of thosequestions, are you really
Chicano or Chicana?
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
The other thing you pointed out, I think it's a big
problem.
I'll tell you, when...
My friends get together, myfriend Linda Areola, and we all
get together and we talk aboutwhy isn't there more
representation or there isn'treally a focus on representation
(29:01):
women Chicano artists.
I mean, there are not that many.
Okay.
And I have to say the men tendto get the limelight.
There's a lot more of them.
But honestly, when we weremaking lists at one point at
breakfast, I was horrified tofind out like how few there are,
(29:23):
you know, and they don't get thedue respect because, you know,
and I'm not necessarily talkingabout myself, but there's people
that really paid their duesChicana artists you know and
women artists basically okaythat don't get their dues they
don't get their respect and thatis going to change I really feel
(29:45):
right now that there's a lot ofthings that are going on
politically the museums have tochange the galleries have to
change it's time right I
SPEAKER_04 (30:01):
mean It has been my observation that in this last
little period of time that theyare the most vocal and the most
outraged about things that arehappening.
You know, it's a completelydifferent reaction and
temperament to the men artistsin the group.
The women are just like, enoughof this shit, you know.
(30:22):
I mean, that's kind of theattitude I get.
which is good, you know?
It takes a lot of bravery to dothat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
And I don't know whether it's because we don't
have the limelight on us and wecan do whatever the
you-know-what that we want to dowithout any blowback.
Maybe when you're a little bitmore well-known, they're
expecting the same old, same oldfrom you.
I don't know.
But Soy Chicana was definitely ajourney for me.
(30:53):
I was enraged when I did thatpiece.
It was the beginning of, youknow, 45's speech she gave.
And I was, I mean, it was alsohate radio.
(31:14):
Actually, it was during the timeof the hate radio.
And I said to myself, you knowwhat?
I have a voice and my voice ismy art.
And the title Soichikana to mewas a declaration similar to
when Jesse Jackson gave hisspeech of, I am somebody.
(31:39):
And so that piece really says,I'm here and I'm great.
SPEAKER_04 (31:48):
The great thing about the whole Chicano
category, Chicana category, isthat it's a self-declared
section.
You have to declare yourself aChicano in order to be one.
There's no box on the censusthat you can check off and
there's Hispanic or, you know,but the Chicano, Chicana is not
(32:11):
recognized as an officialcategory.
It's a voluntary category, butyou can get a PhD in Chicano
studies from Harvard University.
So what's the message?
We don't exist.
It is truly a phantom culturethat is really the mainstream.
I mean, as far as I'm concerned,because of the longevity, the
(32:32):
specificity of the vision ofthis group of painters, and it's
expanding all the time, the manystates it has been from
California to New York, And forthe length of time that it has
endured and continues to evolve,that there's an argument to be
made that the Chicano School ofArt is maybe the most important
(32:56):
and pertinent school of art everin the history of the United
States.
SPEAKER_02 (32:59):
I agree.
And the other thing I would liketo see, I'd like to see it open
up to other styles.
I think there's room enoughfor...
You don't have to just paint onething.
SPEAKER_04 (33:16):
That's part of the deal.
Once you've established yourselfas a Chicano artist and they
know where you're coming fromand what your identification and
what your inspiration is, then Ithink at a certain point it
gives you freedom to paintanything you want.
If you come back and forthbecause your name is
established, they see yourthing, they know your political
(33:38):
beliefs, they know your beliefsabout women or children or the
workforce or what whatever thatis and you you it is almost like
getting invested and aninvestiture ceremony that okay
you've you've shown your bonafides and and now you can do
whatever you want you know
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
and it's it's freedom to me that's why i don't
like people to put me in a box iam a chicana artist and whatever
comes out of this body in thesehands That's my work, and so
it's by a Chicana artist.
SPEAKER_04 (34:15):
Well, you know, but there's also a...
a philosophy, let's put it that,would be behind Chicano art.
And it addresses something.
It addresses political issues orwomen issues.
And that's part and parcel aswell as you can be an abstract.
But those qualities are whatdefine the school in the
(34:39):
beginning.
And how you interpret that goingforward is your particular
explanation of everything thatmade you.
And that's...
That's really, really goodbecause you don't have to be
just one thing.
Todd, do you have anotherquestion?
I
SPEAKER_05 (34:55):
do.
CC, you talked a little bitabout self-help graphics and
your exposure there being aturning point for you.
Will you talk a little bit abouthow your work has evolved since
that time and sort of what thatevolution has been like for you
and maybe what inspired some ofit?
Were there other big turningpoints, other bends in that
(35:15):
road?
And what were those influences?
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Well, I definitely said, like I said, self-help
graphics.
I met people that I couldreally, you know, talk about
art, learn a lot of differentmethods because self-help
graphics did offer, you know,you could do...
all different types of things,etching, watercolor, anything
(35:46):
that you wanted to.
So I started learning a lot ofnew techniques.
I mean, I was doing some wildthings in Westwood, drawings and
all this and that, but there, Ithink I really honed a lot of my
techniques, my artwork.
(36:08):
And I also, because of myawareness at self-help and a lot
of issues that I was not awareabout, immigration and
underprivileged areas and stuff,it changed my art.
It started to reflect in my artwhat I was being exposed to.
(36:33):
And I think that was really,really important.
Other turning points, I justthink...
you start getting confidence.
I mean, the fact that, you know,when Cheech collected Soy
Chicana and my other work, Imean, I remember driving on the
(36:54):
2 Freeway and Stephen fromChimaya says, guess what?
Cheech just bought Soy Chicana.
And it was like, whoa! And I,you know, I...
No, and I missed my exit on thefreeway.
I didn't realize I was driving.
I was all the way almost toBurbank by that time.
(37:19):
And so those kinds of thingssupport, I think support from
the community, other collectors,really, and they're
acknowledging your work, youknow?
I mean, some of them can stayand live with me, you know, for
a long time.
(37:40):
But when somebody actually, youknow, purchased something like
that and then displays it andthen it traveled for so many
months and years.
I mean, that's very, veryspecial.
That's very special.
SPEAKER_04 (37:55):
One of my mantras during this whole process from
the beginning of collection tonow is that you cannot love or
hate Chicano art unless you seeit.
And I've always had thisreaction when people come to see
it.
Oh, I didn't know it was goingto be like this.
I like this, you know.
Okay, well, thank you very much.
I like it too.
I'm glad you came.
(38:16):
And tell your friends, you know,spread the word.
Because that's the process thatwe're in now.
And with the establishment ofthe Cheechin Riverside, it is
official.
You know, I mean, it reallyrepresents a milestone that we
have our first Chicano museumthat represents kind of...
the breadth and depth of thehistory of the arts.
(38:39):
You can see how it developed.
So, but I found that the wheelsof progress grind exceedingly
slow in the museum world.
I mean, it's a very, becauseit's the final imprimatur of
acceptance, cultural acceptance,you know, once you have a
museum, you're on your way, butyou get into the museum world
(38:59):
and they say, well, come back in25 years.
If you're still there, we'llkind of consider you on the
first row.
on.
Okay.
I get it.
I hope I live that long, youknow, but it's, but you know,
it's, you want change to happenfast.
You want change to happenyesterday, but in the art where
they rarely do, you know, and ifthey do happen that fast, they
(39:21):
don't last, you know?
So we want long lasting andinfluential work as we go
forward.
And that's what I see in yourwork.
I was like, I couldn't even seethe whole thing because it's
sagged in the middle.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
No, but Stephen did need a big piece and he, he
didn't realize it was going tobe so warm that day.
So I stepped on sliding down.
He goes, you got to dosomething, but I don't know,
Stephen, what can we do?
And he goes, we got to think ofsomething, you know,
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
but we'll sell it to cheese.
That's an idea.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
You know, I have to tell you, it immediately got
attention.
I mean, people really love that.
SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
It is a good, it's a wonderful piece, you know, and,
and it goes through this processabout it.
You know, if we're going to,well, what are we going to put
on the cover of the, of thecatalog or the book, you know,
and then had three or four ofthem now.
And it always, it comes to me inthe middle of the night, you
know, Oh, that one.
Yeah.
That's absolutely perfect.
And that's, I didn't go throughthat process with your work.
(40:21):
I knew it was going to be thecover immediately because it
fit, you know, it fit the whole,the whole book concept of
wraparound.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:31):
Yeah.
It was beautiful.
And, you know, as a previousgraphic designer, I saw that,
how it worked really well.
And, you know, Soy Chagana, Imean, that has so many
symbolisms in it.
I don't know, I mean, you knewit had the Pledge of Allegiance
(40:56):
in Soy Chagana.
But, and I was talking tosomebody and, you know, it's a
blending of two cultures thatcame together.
I mean, granted it was, youknow, what happened in the
Americas, but it also, I thinkcan, that people that are of
(41:18):
color can, I think can reallyunderstand that because we are,
you know, with the Pledge ofAllegiance, that means, you
know, just because we're peopleof color or come from different
areas, we don't even questionour patriotism.
(41:45):
So that piece was very specialto me.
It jumped off the wall.
SPEAKER_04 (41:52):
It looks like it was trying to get away from the wall
when I first thought.
Let me out here.
Find me a home.
Because it was so heavy when Iwent up to touch.
Because I always touch the art.
And this is heavy.
It's on canvas.
Or what was it on?
I can't remember.
But it was like no wonder it'sdrooping, man.
(42:13):
So I had to get it stretched andframed first of all.
And so I have a theory aboutframing.
The framing either stops thepainting or continues the
painting.
And And so I, you know, try todo something that's appropriate,
but always to the end offeaturing the painting, how to
(42:36):
best show it off.
You know, if you have a womanwith a great figure, you want
something skin tight, you know,if it's, if something else you
want something else.
And, and so it, I put this bigred lacquer frame around it and
it was like beautiful.
And Stephen from Chimaya cameover to the house to see it.
And he goes, I had it hanging inthe hallway.
It goes, oh, wow, I didn't knowthat that work was so good.
(43:00):
But it kind of rung, you know,because, no, okay, you're
supposed to look at this, youknow, and the frames do that.
And sometimes the paintingdoesn't need a frame.
I like to show off the painting.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
Oh, it definitely needed a frame, and I thought
you picked a great color.
And it doesn't fall off the wallanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
And it doesn't fall off the wall no more.
So what is the inspiration thatmakes you do something abstract
or figurative orrepresentational when you go
walk to the canvas?
Do you have an idea?
I better get to the canvasbecause I have this idea.
Or do you like, I'm going to sitin front of the canvas and see
what happens.
(43:40):
And it's either abstract orrepresentational.
Is that a conscious effort thatyou've thought of an idea?
And you go to the canvas toexecute it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Well, it's very interesting.
There are times where I justwill attack the canvas and it's
a matter of color and feelingand shapes and everything.
And even if, you know, andsometimes I will just leave it
alone like that.
There have been other timeswhere I've done an abstract and
said, you know what?
(44:10):
I think it needs a little bit ofsome type of color.
figure or drawing on it and Iwill never dictate to the
painting really what it'ssupposed to do it kind of tells
me when it needs something butnormally when I'm doing
(44:32):
something political it tends tobe it tends to be in a
figurative sense You know, I dohave one piece that I actually
there's a couple of pieces in myhouse.
One is called Asylum.
It's a total abstract, but ithas to do with undocumented
(44:56):
immigrants.
And then I don't know if you seethat one right on that corner,
but that's called Remains of theConquest.
So it really depends on thelanguage and what I want to say,
you know, how forceful I want tosay something about, you know,
(45:18):
something usually political.
Like I say, I have a sketchbook.
I will sit and I will draw and Iwill document.
It's kind of like an illustrateddiary.
And I will document what's goingon, you know, in the world and
my life.
in my life.
(45:38):
I have, you know, there's acouple of books like this on our
president, ex-president 45.
And it's amazing when I lookback on it.
I also have one that I did on9-11.
And there are drawings in therethat I can't believe I did that.
(46:00):
Wow.
You know, and it's just almostlike a stream of consciousness.
SPEAKER_04 (46:04):
So when you start to work, do you work to it till you
finish it?
Or do you get to a certain pointand say, I need to get away from
this for a little while and walkaway and leave home and
hitchhike across the U.S.
and then come back and finishit?
Or what's the process?
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
It depends.
If I, like the sage, when Iwanted to say something like
that, I knew that it had to havesome figurative pieces in there.
There are other pieces that I'vedone that have like one piece
that has A huge avocado.
And it was kind of likeabstract.
(46:41):
But then I felt that it needed afigurative piece.
So at first, it wasn't planned.
It just happened.
And I like the freedom of doingwhatever I feel that the
painting needs or the paintingis telling me that it needs.
(47:04):
When I was a young girl, artistin my apartment, when I would
paint small pieces, I wouldbring them at night of acrylic,
not oil.
I'd bring them into my bedroom,sit them on a chair right on the
side of my bed, go to sleep andwake up and look The first thing
(47:25):
my eyes went to was thatpainting.
And I would eyeball it and say,okay, this is wrong on that
painting.
You know, it was those fresheyes looking at that piece.
So, you know, sometimes it canbe instinct.
Sometimes it can be a stream ofconsciousness.
(47:45):
I tend to work very, very muchlike with stream of
consciousness.
So Ichigana, I mean, those, thefigurative type of work, I tend
to work like continuously.
And in fact, when I did SoyChicana, I was living in a small
apartment and my husband was,you know, we had just gotten
(48:06):
married and I had to roll itacross, you know, the wall and
across the door.
And I told him, could you pleasecall me when you come home?
Because do not open the door,there's a painting there.
And basically, I would just drawand draw and draw and draw, you
know, until I, you know, I hadto take it down and then put it
(48:31):
up the next day and draw anddraw and draw.
But where there's a will,there's a way.
SPEAKER_04 (48:36):
I've heard this story, a similar story from a
lot of, mainly the womenartists, because they're
painting in small studio-ishkinds of things that are, that's
their apartment, house, garage,whatever that's conjoined.
And it's always, they always Ijust want to do a gigantic
piece, you know?
So the problem always arises,you know, like, well, how do I
(48:57):
even fit it in the house and howdo I get perspective on it?
And how do I back up?
And, you know, it's a process,but, but the determination in
the finishing the project alwaysshines through.
I mean, like determined to dothis because abstract, you can
come back a year later and keepon going, I guess, you
SPEAKER_02 (49:16):
know?
Yeah.
But I know when it's finished, Ifeel it.
You know, during the pandemic, Imean, I never stopped painting.
And most of them are abstract.
I have this little piece here,which has an interesting story
to it.
It was my husband's firsthaircut during pandemic.
(49:38):
And what I did was the clippingsof his hair, I took and I mixed
into the paint.
SPEAKER_04 (49:45):
Is this Santeria or something?
Is it a process?
Was there chickens involvedhere?
SPEAKER_02 (49:50):
It was just a different texture.
SPEAKER_04 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
I see.
You can't see it, but I knowit's there.
I mean, that's my personalcollection.
And it's called, you know, Hairof the Dog.
And we call him the Big Dog.
So it's called the Hair of theDog.
Did
SPEAKER_04 (50:10):
he appreciate that?
SPEAKER_02 (50:12):
Yeah, he claims that now as his.
SPEAKER_04 (50:14):
Well, you know, Hair of the Dog.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Hair of the Dog,
SPEAKER_04 (50:18):
yes.
Yeah, Dave.
So what is your consists ofthese days getting up and and uh
And doing what?
SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
I'm very disciplined.
Yeah.
I have to tell you.
I mean, you can't have somebodyto say, well, don't you think
you should draw now?
Or don't you think you should goin your studio?
I'm very disciplined.
And we get up in the morning.
He goes on his side of thehouse.
I go into my studio because wehave a house now.
So it's bigger.
(50:47):
That's nice.
I paint.
I paint.
I, it's my nature to becreative.
That's what I do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even taking care of my mom,when I have to take care of my
mom, I would, you know, sheprobably would say stop already,
but I would, you know, dress herup like, you know, maybe Frida
(51:09):
Kahlo, a little shell, a littleshawl.
I would try to even bring thatcreativity to her.
I took a lot of photographs ofher.
So it's something that is partof me.
SPEAKER_03 (51:22):
When
SPEAKER_02 (51:22):
I was a child, they would say, Cece, please, can't
we just do, no, we're going tocreate this and it's my nature
to, you know, to make things to,you know, whatever it's going to
be.
I just, I love the ability tocreate and it's a gift.
SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
Yeah, it is.
I mean, artists generally knowthey're going to be artists very
soon in their life, you know,because they can't help, but
pick up the pencil and paper anddraw something on it.
I mean, it's just, it's likesingers, you know, singers sing
all the time.
I mean, they wake up singing andthey go, you know, they eat
dinner singing and they go outto the yard and say, but
(52:07):
painters are the same way.
You know, it's just, they'requieter.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Yes.
I mean, when I go into my, mystudio, it's my sanctuary and,
You know, everything I leave, orat least I try, leave everything
outside that door.
And I am in my zone, you know,and I love it.
SPEAKER_04 (52:31):
So what's inspiring you lately?
What are you doing right now?
SPEAKER_02 (52:36):
Right now, I'm starting to produce work coming
out of the pandemic.
And I feel it's like, and thisis for everybody, it's like a
renaissance.
It's going to be a renaissance,a rebirth.
And so I'm doing new work rightnow.
So I'm very excited.
I mean, it's like, let's get offwith the mask.
(52:57):
I'm vaccinated.
And let's start doing Rollingnow.
Let's start working.
SPEAKER_04 (53:04):
I think so.
I absolutely think so.
I think the artists are theavatars of the age and they see
things coming greatly a longdistance away.
And we have to kind of listen toours because of the advanced
sensors of anywhere we're going.
So I think we're going to comeout of this pandemic happy.
(53:25):
Totally changed.
We're not going back to the waywe used to do things.
And it's just not going tohappen because we're going to be
faster, more streamlined, morecommunicative throughout the
world.
And that's kind of what weneeded.
You know, it is really what weneed.
And so we're learning a newlanguage and a new rhythm right
now.
And that is going to, I think,in the end, save us.
SPEAKER_02 (53:48):
Yes, I agree.
There's going to be so many liketechnology.
I mean, so many new things.
I mean, I'm not saying I waslike thrilled throughout the
whole pandemic, but for the mostpart, I was doing what I
normally do and that's pain.
But I think I'm very excitedabout, you know, the new year
(54:09):
and what's going to happen.
SPEAKER_04 (54:11):
Yeah, we're going to see some amazing things and it's
going to go very fast.
And the fundamental way we dobusiness in the world is in the
midst of change right now.
And it's going to happen veryrapidly.
It's happening very rapidly.
You know, the new norms arelike, well, we're not going to
come back to work if we don'tget a living wage.
(54:32):
That's going on right now.
People cannot, the companiesdon't have enough workers, no
matter what they do, if it'stechnological making rockets or,
you know, shoes.
We're reconfiguring how weapproach that, how we make
better, faster, cheaper, youknow, more outstanding products.
(54:53):
And that's happening right now.
And people are going to have toadjust to that.
SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Absolutely.
And equality and women artists,their presence in museums and
galleries, you know, that'sgoing to, I think it's a good
thing.
SPEAKER_04 (55:10):
Yeah, I don't think I don't see why they shouldn't,
you know, women painters orartists are as talented or maybe
more in some cases than anybodyelse so that they should get
their day and continue to gettheir day.
You know, I've, I've, I wasmarried to a painter once since
I've, I've heard this rightbefore, you know, so, so I, you
(55:32):
just, yeah, you know, I had a,my wife, she complained about
now we're getting, you know,with women are excluded.
She had more shows than anyperson I've ever seen in my
life.
You know, but but I can seethat, you know, her point.
And but but that's going tochange.
And also, we need to findeventually at some point how to
to ramp up the commercialelement and people that promote
(55:58):
the work in order to, OK, thiscan go good and over your couch,
you know, kind of because theart world and the art market is
like the stock market.
It goes up, it goes down.
It gets discovered.
It was big today and not bigtomorrow.
So it takes constantreinforcement in the form of
(56:21):
dollars.
And that's the half of the artworld.
And the other half is the museumworld.
And to balance those two things,and they should work in
conjunction with each other in aperfect world.
So we'll see where that comesout.
I
SPEAKER_01 (56:38):
think that's one of the beautiful things about the
touring programs And I reallythink that's been my most
exciting thing about workingwith you is because it's so
innovative for you as acollector.
That's why I really don't evenlike to call you a collector.
I think of you as an artadvocate because your voice, you
have really elevated voices ofeveryone in the community and
(56:58):
the artistic community.
And that's been such a pleasurefor me personally to watch.
And just even doing theseprograms right now.
I mean, honestly, just this isour third of four programs and
this is so exciting.
exciting to hear voices, notonly of the artists that you
have in the collection, but alsoartists and curators who have
worked with, I mean, to reallyget to know Chris today and to
(57:22):
continue that conversationbeyond today.
That's also really great.
One thing you said in one of ourlast programs, Cheech, was that
you talked about that you don't,again, you want to speak to all
audiences because here I am, I'mevidently not a Chicana I
identify with the community inmany ways because I have been so
(57:45):
involved with it for the past 20years but I think the best thing
that you have done too is notagain elevating artists who are
and giving them voice not onlyto their own community but to
communities at large and Ilooked at just even the tour
schedule for example that webrought the papel Chicana dose
and there's nine um museums thatactually showed it and it's
(58:08):
Tulsa Oklahoma um Lake Miami,Wyoming, Riverside.
Of course, that's actually howwe got to know Riverside.
Thank God.
I love it.
San Diego, Anaheim.
It's now in Colorado.
So we're really canvassing alllevels of different cities
across the country and reachingso many communities.
And I think that's really sogreat of you in that way.
(58:32):
And then also elevating whatyou're doing to elevate artists
like Cece, you know, just reallysharing her work.
I think I'm so excited aboutthat.
I'm sure what do you think aboutit cc i'm sure that you're just
like um we were talking theother day margaret has a piece
that was elevated a lot withchicana visions this is your
piece or chicana really has isee it all the time when i go on
(58:55):
the internet and look upexhibitions in chicana white it
pops up have you seen a lot ofattention with that
SPEAKER_02 (59:01):
oh lots of attention i mean you know people that i i
don't know or other artists thatyou know want to talk to me
about about it.
I have a lot of people that, youknow, they ask me about soy
chicana and they They just wantto know how they can get their
(59:23):
pieces in a museum and stuff.
And I just want them just towork and work and work.
But it's made me so very proudto have Soichigana in the Chichi
Collection, I have to tell you.
I mean, I know Sonia had saidthat, you know, when you have
one of your pieces in a museum,it's like you've arrived, you
(59:46):
know?
Yeah, and it...
I am very proud.
I am very proud.
I mean, it's kind of like Idon't have children, but it's
like my child did really welland it's gone on and, you know,
has a life of its own andsomething.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:06):
It's exactly what I mean.
You get lifted to a place ofreverence.
When you see it, oh, I likethis.
I thought Chicano art was goingto be a picture of a guy
sleeping under a cactus with apot of beans.
No, it is the most sophisticatedgroup of painters that are
(01:00:31):
working today in the UnitedStates and maybe the world that
have been long lived over anumber of years, over a number
of states and the country.
I think it really representsAmerica more than any other
school of of work that I've everseen.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00:48):
But that's a little bit of my life on that wall in
that museum.
it's a beautiful thing I have
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:59):
to say I think one of the things that we haven't
spoke a little bit about is yourrole as a mentor and as a
teacher both of youth and otherartists and kind of the emerging
generation and how you getinspiration from that too so if
you can speak a little bit aboutwhat was that experience of
really working with youthespecially as you said maybe
(01:01:25):
disadvantaged communities or atsome point even incarcerated
youth.
I thought you had shared that inpart of your journey.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:36):
You know, it really, it was very eye-opening to me
when I was working for a groupcalled Theater of Hearts.
And For some reason, I wasalways sent to the camps and
usually boys camps.
(01:01:56):
And I had never been exposed tothat kind of, you know, a camp,
juvenile camp.
It's basically their prisons,right?
I would go in there and theywould check all my supplies and
then the door would lock.
(01:02:18):
There were guards, you know.
And I would go into theclassroom and, you know,
everybody loves art.
Come on.
Who doesn't love art?
Well, there are some people whowon't do art.
And I would have to kind of coaxthem into it.
But I had met some of the mosttalented young people at that
(01:02:42):
place.
And I would wonder, like, I evenasked them, what are you doing
here?
You know, I mean, they showed...
a lot of talent.
They showed a lot ofintelligence.
And also because I kind of like,you know, I do surreal, but I
(01:03:03):
love surreal also.
There was a lot of surrealimages within their drawings.
But I also would neverdiscourage somebody.
I don't care how bad they drew.
I always, always encourage thembecause you never know where
(01:03:24):
that might take them orsomething in their head can
click you know and you know it'skind of like you can do this too
you know I don't know whatyou've done but I have to say
most of them in there were fordrugs they had a bad attorney or
no attorney they were like youknow 15 or 16 years old And they
(01:03:47):
were sitting in these God awfulcamps and it was heartbreaking.
It's tough to teach in a placelike that.
I also taught at a place where alot of the kids were drugged
because maybe they weredifficult to handle and they
would sit there and drool out oftheir mouths.
(01:04:09):
And I just thought somebodyshould be able to reach them.
I mean, it shouldn't be awarehouse of our youth.
And there were black youth,brown youth.
There was also Aryan Nation inthere.
(01:04:30):
And so it was an experience thatI just think...
that something has to be done.
Something has to change.
But it was the most rewardingprobably thing that I've ever
(01:04:51):
done.
And I'm also very proud of thatbecause they gave a lot more
back to me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04:57):
Seems like sometimes that group of youth needs
somebody to Listen to them orgive them a chance, you know, or
show them some attention.
It's an aspect that they lackand they really want.
And encouragement is always thebest thing.
Todd, any other questions?
SPEAKER_05 (01:05:19):
Yeah, thanks.
So you talked a little bit aboutthis renaissance, this point of
renaissance where we are, andI'm interested to know where in
that moment or this particularmoment you are finding
inspiration.
And is it and are you finding ittaking you in a new direction or
is it amplifying work that youwere doing either during the
(01:05:40):
pandemic or are you returning tothemes and and things from from
before the pandemic?
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:48):
No, it's going to have to be fresh.
And I'm going to beexperimenting on some new
things.
You know, found objects.
Just I like pushing myself.
I don't like to be stale.
I love going into Home Depot orsomeplace like that and look and
(01:06:14):
see and find things that I canincorporate into my artwork.
I want my work to be somethingnew and something that came out
of the pandemic that was forgood.
That's what I want to do.
And I'm really excited about it.
(01:06:34):
So we'll see what happens.
But the other thing is, thereare things that I will take with
me.
Everybody has been affected bythe pandemic.
So whether you know it or not,whatever you do, or when I'm
painting, that'll be an elementof what we went through, right?
(01:06:58):
But we turned it around, and I'mjust finding that it's going to
be a challenge, and I'm excitedto do
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:08):
it.
There's a question from JasonGonzalez that I wanted to share
with Cece.
He was wondering how your timeas a graphic designer,
especially the Ruff Young DIYaesthetic of the punk scene in
the waning days of stat camerasand the earliest days of
photocopiers, how did that– timeas a graphic designer inform
(01:07:29):
your approach to printmaking andpainting?
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:34):
I'll tell you, I actually was at Disney at the
time when computers startedhappening.
And I was very fortunate.
I was able to start learning atthat time.
And I would do some drawings.
It was right at the beginning.
(01:07:55):
We didn't have Photoshop oranything like that.
It was just kind of linedrawings.
But even now, I do use mycomputer skills to when I
photograph a painting, maybeit's even, you know, I'm in the
(01:08:15):
process of painting.
I take it into Photoshop.
I turn it around.
I look at it.
I change colors on it.
So it's a very helpful tool.
My husband happens to be in thevisual effects business.
So he uses that a lot.
(01:08:38):
But when I was working for theVillage Muse, there weren't
really, we didn't really use alot of computers.
We had to do everything the oldway, the
SPEAKER_04 (01:08:48):
old way.
Computer is just another brush.
It's what you do with thatbrush.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08:53):
We have one more question and we'll close.
It's a question from theaudience.
And the question was, Cece, canyou talk about your performative
art, especially the fabulousCalavera walking altars?
I actually hope those continuebecause I hope that maybe we can
help the tradition with theCheech.
I'd love to see that.
(01:09:14):
What do you think?
What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_02 (01:09:17):
Well, you know, we did those at Tropico de Nopal
and Reyes Rodriguez is the onethat put those together.
And I think I was in everysingle one except maybe one.
And the premise of the Day ofthe Dead day fashion show was
(01:09:38):
that you were supposed to picksomebody that, you know, an
artist or somebody that you werehonoring that had passed.
And as an artist, I usuallyalways chose an artist.
So I did the Siqueiros piece, Ithink was the most, it took the
(01:09:58):
most time.
And what I did was, was I triedto replicate the mural that's in
Olvera Street with a crucifixionof the Indian on the back of my
mural, because my piece was onebig mural, right?
(01:10:19):
And in the front was the face ofSiqueiros, but in 3D.
I don't know how I'm able to dothat, how I can figure out how
to do this.
I'm not a seamstress, but I sendI somehow can figure out how to
make things.
And it was extremely heavy.
And then I had a piece coming upthis way with the American Eagle
(01:10:44):
over here sitting on my head.
And it was I was the finale.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10:51):
I was I was there.
And that's actually the firsttime I saw you.
I never met you.
But it was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10:58):
It was it was wonderful piece.
And it was I had made it out ofburlap.
So and then the burlap wasscratchy.
So I had to put some kind offleece or something inside so it
wouldn't scratch me.
Right.
So.
I created this whole tribute toSiqueiros.
(01:11:20):
I put it on, I thought, this ispretty good.
And then I kept it on a littlelonger because I had to keep my
arms up like this.
And I thought, damn, this isreally heavy.
But what I did was I stuck apole on the back of my neck
through the costume so it wouldhold my arms up.
(01:11:41):
And then you had to balanceyourself too, you know?
So that is a wonderful piece.
Siqueiros' face and his hand,the 3D hand coming out like
this.
I mean, it really worked.
I was really surprised.
I have six costumes.
One of it is to Picasso, too.
(01:12:01):
Oh,
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:02):
really?
It's like when you see the batsignal, you put it on and run
out the door?
SPEAKER_02 (01:12:07):
Well, everybody has their own costume, each artist.
And my friend Abel used to alsobe in the show, and he did some
great costumes.
So all the artists have theircostumes at their house.
So they belong to us.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:26):
Maybe we'll revive that tradition somewhere along
the line.
That's a good way to go.
We
SPEAKER_01 (01:12:32):
need to have it at the grand opening.
Let's talk.
Maybe there's something fun wecan do.
Well, I really want to thank youso much for joining us today
because this was like amazing.
I know Cheech, how would you,why don't you say some closing
words and then I'll do theclose.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12:47):
Well, I'm really delighted to give you a space to
explain your art and to just beseen by the public to know that
you're there and doing greatwork that has been featured as
much as I can feature it inevery show.
But we see the length andbreadth and depth of the artist
(01:13:08):
pool that we have to draw from.
And they're talented.
There's a lot of them.
And they're younger and they'reolder.
at the same time.
And that's what I like aboutthat.
You know, there is somethingreverence given to OGs, you
know, if they're notChicanosaurus, I guess.
(01:13:30):
But it's a continuous line.
It's a continuous line ofinspiration that we're dealing
with now.
And it goes from Chicanosaurusto Latinx.
And this is a coming together.
Every generation likes to beknown for themselves, but
they're a part of the tradition.
that is still continuing.
And it gives voice to thingsthat we think are right in this
(01:13:55):
world.
So thank you very much forcontributing to it, you know,
because it's a very strongvoice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14:01):
Cece, again, thank you for being our star today.
We're very excited.
Please check out Cece's work onher Instagram account.
That's where she's most prolificas well as her Facebook.
But her Instagram account isCece, which is C-I-C-I dot
Segura dot Gonzalez.
And that's with two Z's.
Her artwork is on view currentlyat the Colorado Springs Fine
(01:14:24):
Arts Centers through august 7thminute comes home to california
to learn more about the cheechplease visit thecheechcenter.org
for show notes links and artworkimages that were mentioned in
this program please visitcauseconnect.net that post will
be transferred over toriversideartmuseum.org later
(01:14:44):
this summer when they get theirnew website and of course it'll
be on thecheechcenter.org aswell now thanks again this
series was presented byriverside art museum it was made
possible through the generosityof the Union Pacific Foundation.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com