June 25, 2022 • 51 mins
Wendy Kroeker explores her research on peacebuilding and conflict resolution in the Philippines and the island of Mindanao. Exploring the root causes of violence, we examine histories of colonialism impacting Moro, Lumad, and the Filipino residents. The podcast examines notions of transgenerational trauma, group identity, and retutoring the body through the practice of dialogue. Kroeker holds the possibility of the Tinikling dance and the sway of bamboo as metaphors for peace.
The Music & Peacebuilding Podcast is hosted by Kevin Shorner-Johnson at Elizabethtown College. Join our professional development network at www.musicpeacebuilding.com - thinking deeply we reclaim space for connection and care.
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Wendy Kroeker (00:00):
Able to envision more deeply what peacebuilding
really has to accomplish.
Otherwise, we're doing thatchecklist. But thinking through
how do we really practice thoseways of being together that say
this is our place, so that thesespaces offer transformational
opportunities.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:21):
You are listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at musicpeacebuilding.com Exploring
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imagination.
Through research and story.
Wendy Kroeker specializes incommunity conflict
(00:41):
transformation processes asAssociate Professor in Canadian
Mennonite University's Peace andConflict Transformation studies
department and in locationsaround the globe. She has over
25 years of experience as acommunity mediator, conflict
transformation trainer, peaceProgram Consultant, Program
Manager for internationaldevelopment projects, and
(01:04):
university instructor. She hasworked in the Philippines,
Indonesia, Myanmar, India,Bangladesh and Palestine. In
addition to her teaching inPeace and Conflict
Transformation studies, Wendy isthe academic director of the
Canadian School of peacebuildingand annual teaching Institute at
Canadian Mennonite University,bringing students from around
(01:26):
the globe for courses in thefields of development, conflict
transformation andpeacebuilding. Her research into
the role of local and everydaypeacebuilding has been published
by Lexington press, and istitled multi dimensional
peacebuilding local actors inthe Philippines.
My first question is, is askingyou to maybe set some context
(01:50):
for listeners who are not asfamiliar with Mindanao and
peacebuilding work in thePhilippines. So in your book,
you note that to understandFilipino peace work, and in
particular this region in thesouth of the Philippines that we
must understand the imperialistand the colonialist context and
historical harms. So I wonderedif you could set this context of
(02:13):
peacebuilding within Mindanao.
Wendy Kroeker (02:15):
So the history of the Philippines and the island
of Mindanao in particular isvery complex. And as I wrote in
the book, it is the basistowards understanding peace
possibilities in the region. Sowar, the struggle for Colonial
and Imperial domination, themovements of resistance that
(02:37):
have emerged, the pushing ofidentities and boundaries are
really entrenched within a storythat involves the inhabitants of
this region. So there arestories of violence, corruption,
discrimination, injustice,exploitation in terms of people
and resources are really thefabric of the communities that
lived here. Within that history.
There have been decades somewould say centuries of calls for
(03:01):
justice, attention to rootcauses, calls for the right to
self determination for evenbasic needs to be met. poverty
has increased for the indigenousand the Islamicized indigenous
peoples called Moros, who areMuslim. And the settlers said
admin brought him by theimperial powers from the North
(03:25):
have gotten lots of landresources given to them to to
motivate them to move toMindanao. And that means that
the original inhabitants of theisland have either been pushed
to marginal land or in the caseof the Lumads, the indigenous up
into the mountains.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (03:47):
Prior to the arrival of Spanish
colonialism, some 70 ethnolinguistic groups inhabited the
islands that are collectivelyreferred to as the Philippines.
Between 1300 and 1500 traderoutes shifted, and a Muslim
dynasty formed within theMindanao Region. What followed
was a series of colonialistsubjugation and conquest from
(04:11):
the Spaniards in 1572. To theAmericans in 1898. And finally
to the Japanese in the lead upto World War Two, colonizers
used various oppressive forcesof the sword, the Catholic
Church, economic extraction, andthe pacifying effect of
education. overlapping the endof this colonialist history,
(04:35):
were resettlements of Christianfarmers to the island of
Mindanao. Throughout the 20thcentury. These resettlements
created enormous disparitiesbetween newly arrived Christian
settlers, and displaced Morosand Lumads are Muslim and
indigenous inhabitants. The 1976Tripoli agreement and a series
(04:57):
of peace negotiations led To theBangsamoro Organic Law and the
creation of the BangsamoroAutonomous Region in Muslim
Mindanao. Peace is tenuous, andrequires continuous cultivation
and dialogue that unwindsintertwined histories of
traumas.
(05:20):
And I wondered if if we mightalso be able to talk about
trauma because I think traumaplays a big part in the history.
In your book you talk abouttransgenerational trauma and
also chosen trauma. I think Iwanted to read a quote by you,
you write the traumas, often,quote, reside deep within the
culture, and is not simplybanished after a generation. And
(05:41):
you also talked about Volkan'sScholarship with chosen trauma
about how we constructnarratives of threats and fears.
So can you talk about the degreeto which peacebuilding in this
place needs to embrace kind of along transgenerational view of
trauma and how trauma operateswithin communities?
Wendy Kroeker (06:01):
Could I share a little story that I have in the
book. So let me read a shortstory, I open up each chapter of
my book with a personal story ofmy interaction with either the
landscape, the context or withpeople as a way to ground that
academic chapter. And thechapter on trauma starts with
(06:24):
the story with a friend namedDeng, who has been a longtime,
very respected peacebuilderrespected by all of the tribe
people, for her ability to love,respect, listen, and really
advocate for truth to be spoken.
When I had my interview withher, she made the comment she
(06:45):
emphasized, "it's the trauma ofthe intergenerational trauma.
It's brought on by the coloniallegacy. Because we have been
colonized, then we're not usedto thinking as one people,
because we've been so muchdivided at the convenience of
those who are in power, that wedo not know how to be one. So we
(07:06):
still have that in our psyche.
So it's difficult. So my vision,she says, For Mindanao really is
for us to sit together and startthe process of really
understanding what it is we wantMindanao to be, and how we are
going to get there. What is itthat we want to be? And she
(07:28):
pauses at that point. And wetogether think about that
question that she has put intothe air between us. And she
continues, we're so scared tospeak about it. Because the one
in power might silence us mightcastigate us. We might not get
into heaven, all these things.
So what I did, I didn't say inthe history, but perhaps implied
(07:52):
but the first colonizers beingSpanish, the kind of story that
gets told in the Philippinesthat the Spanish arrived with
the sword in one hand and theBible and the other. And there
was this intertwining of both amilitary takeover. And the
church, the priests, followingthe first generals or leaders
(08:13):
off of the ship, and usingreligion as a way to pacify
people. So we have a proudindependent people who were
living rich lives off the land,being forced into Christianity.
And that came together with thepolitical power that arrived in
(08:35):
terms of the colonial legacy.
And so that trauma of of thefaith and spirituality as well
as those external sort ofboundaries that were given in
terms of what they now could do,or, or not do, created this very
(08:56):
deep sadness, negativeexperience trauma. And this
trauma science is now telling usgets passed along in DNA. And so
whether we intentionally dothis, but the next generation,
your children carry that story,not in their heads as something
they can recite, but in a modeof response to what's happening
(09:20):
to them. And Volkan then talksabout a chosen trauma. And he
defines that a, I quote, "mentalrepresentations of the tragedies
that have befallen the group,"end quote, and so there's a
narrative that gets shaped fromthe experiences that becomes a
(09:43):
narrative becomes the identity.
And that's what gets passed onfrom generation to generation.
So as one tries to thinkthrough, peacebuilding, and Deng
says we're afraid they willsilence us. They will castigate
us in some way they physicallyharm us if we say who we really
are. And so that challenge ofdoing peacebuilding in a context
(10:05):
where people feel such asilencing whether we as
outsiders can see where thatsilencing is coming from or not.
That's carried through the bodyand to the next generation. The
the new science on that isreally quite shocking, shocking,
because therapists counselorswho work within that field,
(10:28):
thought if I can just help thisperson or this community, then
we stop it there, and we getthis fresh start.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (10:39):
As the cumulative effect of
disappearances, torture andassassinations, Kroeker rights
of tactics that crushed socialand cultural institutions of a
generation, and a silencing whenmemories are forced to disappear
in order to survive. Kroekerwrites that trauma healing work
is not enhanced by mechanisticparadigms, but rather by "thick"
(11:04):
approaches that honor identity,gender, children, ethnicities
and memory. Dr. Kroeker and Ispoke about Volkan's work, and
the canvas of group identity. Inhis article on trauma, Volkan
uses imagery of two garments,one that fits snugly, and
represents an individualidentity. The second is the
(11:28):
canvas of a tent, through whicha person shares a bigger story,
and a sense of sameness within agroup and collective identity.
Wendy Kroeker (11:39):
Well, Volkan also says, and I love this quote of
his chosen trauma becomes woveninto the canvas of the tent, end
quote, so this idea of the tentwhere we live, it's just in the
air that we breathe. And so alot of work is now being defined
(12:03):
as trauma informed, traumainformed peacebuilding, for
example, trauma informededucation processes, applied in
a lot of different contexts toacknowledge people are not just
what you see on the surface. Andwe discovered this now as we're
coming out of COVID. So much hashappened to people in these two
(12:24):
years of our isolation. And ifwe assume that we're simply the
people we were when we last saweach other two years ago, we're
going to make some missteps.
Because people have hadexperiences they haven't had the
opportunity to share. We are notthe same people coming out of
COVID, similar kind of dynamicin the Philippines thinking of
trauma, informed peacebuilding.
(12:47):
These are not people simplyfighting for autonomy and their
own right to self determination.
This is carrying a whole bigstory, accountability to a
people and the ancestors to beable to sink back into their
ancestral space and live lifethe way they had hoped for, not
(13:08):
marred or shaped by how that theCatholic nuns and priests told
them in in school that theyneeded to act like or speak like
in order to be good Filipinos.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (13:26):
In times of peace, tent Canvas may hold
expansive openings for adiversity of individual
identities. However, duringtimes of stress, quote, the
garment of the tent canvas takeson greater importance, and
individuals may collectivelyseek the protection of and also
(13:46):
help defend their large grouptent. Protective groups often
enter time collapse to juxtaposegenerational grievances with the
present. Within colonialhistories, violence can be
perpetuated in endless cycles,interrupting cycles of the fear
(14:07):
of the other, Fathe, Bert is aJesuit priest, who is called for
a compassionate concern for theother, and an end to violence.
His writings in native Tagalogname the importance of the inner
self and relational interiority,along with the notion of kapwa,
or concern for the other.
Kroeker relayed the story of histransformation and impact.
(14:35):
Yeah, I think at one point inthis interview, I wanted to note
just how much the story that youtold a father Bert had so much
meaning for me because I feellike his his story was one. I
mean, I really sense that he wasreally wrestling within the
stories that he told about wherehe was, what his role was, and
starting to to embrace a senseof change as he started becoming
(14:58):
near the Other
Wendy Kroeker (14:59):
Father, Bert is an amazing person. So here's a
Filipino Catholic priest whogets placed as a young priest
for his first parish, in one ofthe key areas of fighting that
was, you know, the decades ofwar all at war that was
happening in Mindanao. And hesaw his obligation to Catholics,
(15:20):
and his parishioners, and woulddo what he could to save them.
And he had some experienceswhere he was afraid both of
military and of Muslims thatwould have been ingrained in him
as a Filipino Christian thatdon't go near the Muslim
communities, they, they'll killyou, they'll hurt you in some
(15:42):
way, is based on their religion,they're violent people, this
would have been the story thathe would have grown up with. And
so now as a priest, he's tryingto save his his parishioners,
from the violence that couldcome from the Muslims and from
the war that's happening hisarea. At one point in the height
(16:05):
of the war, everybody in thecommunity was coming to the
church to find refuge from thefighting that was going on. And
he has this quote, in the bookof "at night, I would hear
mothers crying, and it didn'tmatter any longer, whether these
were Muslim mothers or Christianmothers, indigenous mothers,
(16:28):
these are mothers crying for theloss of their children." And he
had a, we could say, aconversion experience, in that
moment of realizing all humanitywas lying there in front of him.
And that he had the opportunityto bring people together to try
and bring some some sense of, ofsafety of new relationships of a
(16:51):
peace to that community and thathe by changing his perceptions
of who people were, could becomea peacemaker within that region.
And he has become someone, soloved by the tribe people in his
community, for having thatcourage to step out of the
confines of what the CatholicChurch would sort of prescribe
(17:14):
for him. And he was seen to beso radical that the Catholic
Church transferred him toanother parish. And people cried
for days, I've been told, whenthey found that he was leaving,
Christians, Muslims, indigenous,crying, this priest that had
given them such hope andpossibilities of living
(17:36):
together, was being taken fromthem by the Catholic bureaucracy
said, Ooh, this kind oftheological action is getting
too dangerous for us, whichwhich tells you about the
fragility of of many of those inpower, when they see those who
offer assistance to others asbeing the ones that are putting
(17:58):
the church in jeopardy. Yeah,when she was moved back to that
parish, that the calls were justso great, and of course, that
the church has had its owntransformation during these
decades as well. And hecontinues amazing work.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (18:19):
So I want to get to your metaphors. But I
think before we do that, I thinkwe also need to talk about this
transformation that's happeningin peacebuilding about local
voices. So your work is groundedin the importance of local space
and agency. And I really loveyour quote about local space,
you state "space is never empty,it always embodies a meaning and
(18:39):
thus there is forever thepotential for something
substantive to emerge." So Iwondered if you could speak
about meaning filled local spaceand the power of local voice in
this work that you've beendoing?
Wendy Kroeker (18:54):
last 50 years of sort of concretizing and
creating institutions and thatkind of thing came out of what a
lot of it would be at the UnitedNations in terms of looking at
(19:14):
post conflict reconstruction,and the need of outsider
international third parties asbeing necessary, or helping to
reconstruct societies overcomeby whatever the conflict
violence was in that region. Andso a lot of our peacebuilding
work was was imagined aroundwhat that third party and
(19:39):
eventually we got to ethicalconversations, realizing that
third parties could do harm. Soa movement called by Mary
Anderson "do no harm," but stillthat kept the international
third party is front and centerin terms of salvation of people
within that violence, conflictimpacted region. And it's only
(20:01):
been really maybe started beinguttered in the last, say 20
years of looking to the wisdom,the power of what comes out of a
local context, of third partyfolks realizing we can't
accomplish anything, we don'tknow that culture, what might be
(20:24):
key key symbols and avenues forbringing people together. And
listening to this kind ofthinking it might be like, how
could people not think thatlocal folks could be the ones to
find the solutions to their ownproblems? Well this has been the
plight of Western doers andthinkers, for centuries, that we
(20:48):
have the handle on what's what'sbest and have the resources
monies, that kind of thing thatwill move things forward. So
that's been a change within thepeacebuilding field, quite a
transformation. Local voice...
has really been a move to a kindof humbling respectful way of
imagining peacebuilding ofsitting together, hearing into
(21:14):
spaces, what do people need?
What do people mean when theysay we want the right to self
determination, it means settingwith traumas with people.
Lefebvre who is probably themaybe the most famous writer
about space calls, let me justmake sure that I get the quote,
(21:37):
correct here.
Place happens when we havepracticed space. So place
meaning the place we belong, theplace that has meaning for us,
happens only when we acknowledgewho we are in the spaces in
which we find ourselves andbegin to practice, social
(22:00):
practice says that move us backtogether as human beings. So
space to place is kind of a hasbeen a philosophical theme. And
I thought to apply that topeacebuilding in the sense of
what happens when people inlocal communities are attentive
(22:21):
to what each other needs. Soit's not just oh, we live in
this island, but that thisisland has this history of
people collaborating together,fish in the same waters
together, we practice our socialpractices together such that the
place becomes this place for allof us. And some of the
(22:43):
transformational things thathave been occurring in some of
these very violence impactedcommunities is that Muslims
stand outside the church onEaster Sunday, and greet
Christians coming out withbouquets of flowers. And
Christians preparing food andjoining Muslims at the end of
(23:07):
Ramadan, their feasting. Thatit's not an antagonistic
relationship of we're twodifferent religions. And one is
right and one is wrong, but tosay, we are peoples of faith
together, we will support eachother in substantiating and
celebrating our faiths knowingthat when we are the best of our
(23:28):
faiths, we are the besttogether. That only comes when
it's local people saying what dowe have invested here? How can
we? How can we continue ontogether, move to better places
where we have a potential for usto flourish together. So spaces
where we become deliberate,seeing and you know, seeing each
(23:51):
other's faces, looking intoother's eyes, being deliberate
in those spaces to acknowledgewho we are, and that we've all
been here for centuries and canname our generations. That's the
kind of space where somethingsubstantial can happen. And
that's been a slow change,because so much pain has been
(24:15):
has happened historically witheach other. But realizing a lot
of that pain was initiated by anexternal party that was trying
to divide and conquer, which isthe oldest military strategy in
the world probably. Andrealizing we can coexist, we can
co-habit this space.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (24:38):
However, I really need to check out that
resource from Lefebvre, I had, Idon't think I had heard that
idea of place and space. That'sfascinating.
Wendy Kroeker (24:46):
Yeah, I found that meaningful and a way to
then be able to envision moredeeply what peacebuilding really
has to accomplish. Otherwise,we're doing a checklist But
thinking through how do wereally practice those ways of
being together to say this isour place, so that these spaces
(25:09):
offer transformationalopportunities,
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (25:13):
and naming space where something
substantial can happen. Kroekersites Lefebvre as a seminal
thinker on the production ofspace. Lefebvre's space is
simultaneously physical, mentaland social. He notes how power
is articulated through space,and how our mental
representations and beliefsimpact the social realization of
(25:37):
space within the potential forquote, "something substantive to
emerge." Lefebvre notes thatsocial change cannot occur
without a changed space. Irealize that colonial space is a
space of fragmentation anddisconnect in the service of
(25:57):
domination. Lefebvre andGottdiener contrast, the Greek
agora with the cementedstructures of Roman power, one
spatial structure was open andfluid, and the other was
cemented, and hyperfocusedtoward power centered voices. As
I watch video, after video oftinikling dance, I understand
(26:20):
that the arts are powerful,because they are a reforming of
space. To watch tinikling is towatch a collective focus,
entrainment, and coordination ofrhythmic bamboo poles, steps
claps and music. A collective isheld together in dance that
continues to reform and subvertcolonial pasts.
(26:44):
So Hip Hop tinkling, this is agreat example of something that
comes out of local voices, Ithink you had prepared a
particular metaphor for them,they were like, Nah, doesn't
really fit. And so with yourparticipants help you centered
on hip hop, which I think mymusic listeners are gonna love.
So would you talk about hip hop,tinkling, and what this metaphor
(27:05):
holds for peacebuilding, andalso maybe what the art form is,
the symbolism that's at playhere, and why it transfers as a
metaphor for peace.
Wendy Kroeker (27:14):
I love metaphors.
And Filipinos also are verycreative. They're there, many of
their local languages usepicture words to describe
concepts and ideas. And so Ireally wanted and hoped that I
would come up with a metaphorthat really captured the kind of
things that people were talkingabout. And there is a lot of
(27:36):
dancing at every kind ofFilipino gathering. And so I
thought, yes, it's like a dance,you have your partners, you got
to work together, we may step oneach other's toes at times. And
so I did a trial run with all ofthe people that I interviewed, I
(27:59):
went to the Philippines, I threwa party for the folks that I
interviewed and presented mypreliminary findings to see what
they would think of what I cameup with what I'd heard from
them. And so I presented thisidea that Filipino peacebuilding
is like ballroom dancing, whichthey're so expert at. And I felt
(28:20):
very underprepared at manyplaces to do all the various
dances that they were doing. Andso I said this, and there was
silence in the room. And ofcourse, you know, whenever
there's that silence, you go,un-oh what what just happened
here? And a very goodpeacebuilding friend stood up,
(28:43):
and he said, Wendy, we reallyliked you. You've been with us
for 25 years. But we can't livewith that metaphor. Those dances
came to us from the colonialpowers. And yes, we have
embraced them and enjoy, enjoyedthem. But this is the link to to
intergenerational trauma. Thosedances were forced upon them
(29:06):
with the exclusion of their owndances, and they lost many of
their own dances. And they onlyknow now this ballroom dancing,
but yet they are coming torealize there's a trauma story
that's connected to them beingable to be really great ballroom
dancers. So I said, Okay, let'sjust right now start, help me
(29:29):
think through what would be anappropriate metaphor. You've
heard the kinds of things I'veheard from you. The kind of
themes and the beauty, what I'mseeing of your local peace
building. And then Lindy says,Wendy, I think it should be
tinikling. And that's anindigenous dance that has been
(29:49):
recovered. And then she said,Actually, I think you need hip
hop tinikling. So let me sayWhat tinikling is and then I'll
say what Hip Hop tinikling is.
Because there's this kind ofprogression of, of being, of
(30:12):
discovering identity within thatprogression. So tinikling, is a
traditional, at least 200 yearold dance that is done with four
people. So in pairs, they hold abamboo pole, and they hold these
bamboo poles parallel to eachother, and they pound them on
(30:33):
the ground, and then they bangthem together, and they keep
going ground, and then bang themtogether, ground and then bang
them together, and they had thisbeat that they do. And then the
dancers have to move intricatesteps in between this moving
bamboo. And I've tried thisseveral times. And if you try to
do these fancy moves, and youdon't get your ankle out in
(30:56):
time, your ankle is crushedbetween these two bamboo poles
that was popping togetherthe history of that dance is
that if the tinkling it, thinks,is maybe from the tinkling bird
(31:16):
that had kind these long storklike awkward legs. And they're
kind of mimicking the movementof the birds legs. But would get
done in the evening, they cansee it's from the bird, because
that's where the name kind ofcomes from. But it was to
communicate with each other thatevery day if we don't harvest
(31:39):
enough sugarcane, we getpunished. And so we have to be
agile on the on the sugarcanefield so that we don't get
punished by the Hacienda owner.
And so in the evening, tocelebrate that they've made it
through a day, another day, theywould do this dance, and when
(32:01):
the Hacienda owners would comeand see what they're doing, oh,
we're just doing our dances. Butthe dance was to give us
strength for the next day toovercome the super violence that
was in their midst. And soeveryone, even now, this this
dance has, has lasted throughthe centuries, and every school
kid learns it. But now ofcourse, a new generation has
(32:23):
come forward and sort ofthinking, Oh, that's an old
dance. And when hip hop came up,you know, kids are listening to
hip hop at the same time as theelders are doing this tinikling.
And somehow those two like theywere coexisting at the same
fiesta party, and came togetherwere some of the young folks as
(32:47):
they would do their dance movesin the tinikling, realize they
could add their hip hop beatinto it. And so they would enter
on the side with hip hop dancemoves, and then move into the
space of the clapping bamboo,and do moves and then exit into
hip hop moves. And it's reallyamazing to watch. They've been
(33:10):
able to add to this narrativeof, we will survive. That is
really quite powerful in itswell, it being sort of a story
of hope that we have an identitythat that will survive the
colonial, Imperial domination,the corruption, the
discrimination that we'veexperienced, and celebrate it
(33:32):
with this dance that tells astory, and has added new
challenges for the new youngergeneration to keep holding that
story. And oftentimes, we havestories that don't capture the
younger imagination, thinkingoh, that's back then. This has
(33:53):
been this beautiful melding ofthe ancient dance. With a new
music form to say, we we canstill be in that space of the
old dance with the issues foryoung people in today's time.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (34:15):
That's just a lovely story. I love that
story of how that metaphor holdsresonance. I would love to ask
you about performance andperformance of dialogue. In this
book, you you draw on the workof Judith Butler and her notion
of performativity. You write,"the agency of a group can be
developed through events such asdialogue that nurture and
interiority of desired changes.
This means that we have theopportunity to incorporate that
(34:38):
of which we are speaking intothe depths of our being." It's,
it's about kind of performingyour way into a new way of being
or really using your body tomove into that space. Could you
help me understandperformativity at a little
deeper level, and what role thisplays in peace work?
Wendy Kroeker (34:58):
Again, I'll take a little step Back, as I
listened to the folks that I wasinterviewing, and asked about,
what was some of the peace workthat they were doing? Many of
them, maybe all of themmentioned, the importance of
dialogue. And again, that fitsinto that, that space into
(35:19):
place, kind of conversation wehad earlier, of really their
desire to say we have to sittogether to be transformed. And
dialogue is a format thatprovides for that. And they do
this on a community basis,community level, where people
would sit together in a circle,and a facilitator, an elder or
(35:43):
an outside facilitator, wouldbring them into conversation
around a set of questions tohelp them explore where the
tension points lie, as Ilistened to them, them
describing dialogue, I realizedthey were describing in a
different way than I experiencedtoday, in my North American
(36:04):
context, they all talked about,we have our dialogue. And then
when we go out, we thinkdifferently, we are different,
we have a different way ofbeing. And every person talked
about that. And I startedthinking there's, they have an
(36:25):
expectation or a hope that it'snot just this term around the
circle, but there's a lifetransformation that needs to
that they hope occurs, or anaccountability that we walk out
of here as different people byhaving placed ourselves into
this context and this experienceof this dialogue.
(36:50):
James Austin is the one who'scoined the term performativity.
And in its kind of originaltechnical definition, I'll quote
from Austin, it's an utterancethat brings what it states into
(37:10):
being, or it makes a set ofevents happen." And I realize
often in North America, we thinkof dialogue is these words, in
the space in which we are,performativity theory is that
when we state something, so theclassical example of Austin, is
that of a marriage ceremony,when people say I do to each
(37:36):
other. And in that second, theyare transformed from people
living separately to peopleliving together. So they this
utterance is, is this almostmagical moment of you are now in
a new reality. So thinkingthrough the kind of dialogue I
was hearing from folks was,these are not just words, we
(37:57):
say. And we're not just checkingthis off for an international
development project that says,OK, twice a year, you've got to
bring X number of people, equalnumber of men and women into
these kinds of processes. Theseare engagements, where they call
people together, to share theirtruth with the expectation that
(38:21):
they are new people when theywalk out of the door. And that
is performativity theory inaction. And when you have that
expectation, that gap therethere is this power in
gathering, such that when wespeak from our heart, there is
this hope and this expectationthat transformation will take
(38:44):
place. And talking with manypeople who have been part of
these dialogues, this is alsothe story they tell. They
exchange cell phone numbers witheach other as they walk out.
They may go to the little coffeekiosk and grab a coffee before
they take their bus back totheir village. You see that
happen... And they don't say itat the start of the dialogue.
(39:08):
Okay, we expect you to chainexchange cell phone numbers. At
the end, we expect to drinkcoffee together. There's
something about how thesefacilitators and it can only be
local have a wisdom to know thatwe were meant to live together
and before the colonizers came,we lived together. And so
(39:30):
they're grabbing that those deepreaches of the past to say we
lived together, we can come backinto that space of being able to
live together.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (39:42):
Dialogue that creates a different way of
being. Kroeker encourages themagical moments of utterances in
spaces with the hope of bending,change and transformation.
Bamboo was a key metaphor inmulti dimensional peacebuilding
that symbolized a movement, aconversational flexibility that
(40:05):
listens, quote, to the innernudges of the moment. Bamboo
sways and bins to the winds,illustrating the back and forth
dialogue and, quote, the hope offinding paths for
reconciliation. Paths ofreconciliation may require a
(40:25):
re-tutoring of the body, a kindof action, often found in the
utterances of dialogue. Mahmoodis a leading thinker who extends
Butler's performativity. In herstudies of action, agency and
ethics within Islamic politicsof piety. Kroeker introduces
(40:45):
Mahmood's work,
Wendy Kroeker (40:47):
she talks about the piety of Muslim women and
the veil of retutoring the body,and I loved her work on looking
at Muslim woman piety as a wayto think through what was
happening in the dialoguecircle, that by that gathering
together, uttering the words, weare retutoring the body, I found
(41:13):
that a beautiful thing andrealizing we have so much muscle
memory we go on. And we have tochange the way we do things
which can take some physicaleffort, but can also take a huge
amount of risk. So knowing thatwhen they come out of that
dialogue, and they exchangedcell phone numbers, or Christian
(41:34):
with a Muslim, vice versa,that's a courageous act. So this
small moment of conversation hascreated a courageous retutoring
of how they do communitytogether, that others who
weren't in that moment aren'tgoing to understand how they
could now strike up a friendshipwith the ones that were, you
(41:57):
know, are going to kill all theChristians. But they have been
retutored within thisperformative environment that
helps them be do think speak ina new way. And this kind of deep
engagement I think really liesat the hope of what can happen
(42:20):
in Mindanao.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (42:23):
So you talk about flexible bamboos as
your other metaphor as a way inwhich kind of there's this give
and take within peacebuildingconversation. So could you talk
about why this, why thismetaphor matters?
Wendy Kroeker (42:36):
One of the people that I interviewed, he's
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (42:38):
I asked Dr. Kroeker if there was
affectionately fondly referredto as chairman Iqbal. He has
been in the leadership of theMILF the Moro Islamic Liberation
Front, he was a jungle commanderfor decades in the armed
conflict against the governmentof the Philippines, and is now
(43:00):
the group with whom thegovernment has signed a peace
agreement. And at one point, hesaid to me, a quote something
like "for our survival, we needto bend like the bamboo."
That's, that's what got methinking that every place I was
at, either the table was made ofbamboo, the house was made of
(43:25):
bamboo, the cup was made ofbamboo, the... almost anything
could think of the jewelry thatwomen wore was made of bamboo.
It was ubiquitous everywhere.
And I thought, yeah, just likethe tinikling was a metaphor
that captured the way peoplemove together. Bamboo was
(43:45):
something that linked to theirsurvival. It was everything. It
was food, it was utensils, itwas building materials. And so
when Chairman Iqbal said we needto move like bamboo. I started
to research how, how does bamboomove? and I realized there's two
(44:06):
kinds of bamboo. There is thekind of bamboo that shares root
a root system underground, so wedon't see it. But each bamboo is
connected to anotherunderground, it's rhizome. And
then there is clumping bamboothat just likes to situate
(44:27):
itself together. And so Ithought about those two very
basic kinds of bamboo plants andthought, I discovered two basic
ways that Philippinepeacebuilders interact with the
communities that they're workingwith. So I talked about the ones
that go between. Now thoseunderground rhizomes of those
(44:51):
who have the ability to move asan insider into another
community and be an insiderthere and accept it, and that
they can be a conduit tobuilding a new relationship
together. And then there arethose who come alongside. They
clump together, the solidarityfolks who are building stronger
(45:16):
communities are embedded withintheir context and strengthening
their communities forconstructive peace work. And so,
bamboo is this incredible plantthat's strong enough to build
your house, but yet istechnically a grass. It provides
nourishment and food and Ithought, what better way to
(45:41):
describe Philippinepeacebuilders and their work
than using bamboo as a metaphorthat, that captures the kind of
efforts and ways of being thatthey have. And knowing that
there are not just there isn'tjust one kind of bamboo, there
are many different kinds ofbamboos. And so there are
(46:05):
different kinds of peacebuilders that have their, their
asset grounded in a slightlydifferent space than the other,
and each providing somethingessential to what it really
means for this, the groups ofpeople that are living in
Mindanao to flourish and to domore than survival to flourish
(46:29):
together, despite the externalpressures to keep them apart. So
Iqbal's comment that we need tobend like bamboo is the other
thing. It's not a plant thatsnaps. It can withstand typhoons
of great magnitude, and sway tothose challenges, still keeping
(46:51):
its integrity and being able tosurvive for another day, to
provide life and livelihood tothe peoples around it. So it
became for me a powerful way ofimagining these Philippine
peacebuilders that I see have somuch courage, so much wisdom, so
(47:11):
much deep care for their peopleto survive well together. And
they are bending in the wind.
anything that I hadn't askedher, she closed by relaying the
story of how she found herselfholding these stories as the
(47:34):
center of her research.
Wendy Kroeker (47:36):
A question though, that got asked of me of
my research, why you Wendy, aprairie girl from Canada is
researching Philippinepeacebuilders? In 1996, I went
to the Philippines as thedevelopment worker with an
organization called MennoniteCentral Committee, lived in a
(47:57):
community two years, went home,they, the community asked for me
to come back. So my family and Iwent for another two years, and
I have now been in thePhilippines other than COVID
times, every year to work withcommunities, work on projects do
teaching, to listen, this isgetting on to the 25 ish years
(48:21):
or so. When I was contemplatinga PhD, a couple of Philippine
friends came to me and said,Wendy, can you do us for your
research? I said, What do youmean, do you? Can you look at
Philippine peacebuilders Wendy,we are so busy doing the work,
we have no time to reflect. Butif you would ask us to reflect
(48:45):
with sit down with us for aninterview, we'd be forced to
stop and reflect. And so onething I would just add, I was so
honored to be asked to do that.
And I'm so honored to hold thesestories and share these stories,
and which is why each one ofthem said Please give our real
name. We are real people. Theseare our stories. And so I, it
(49:09):
was a labor of love to say hearvoices that other people should
hear and not just me. So that'sthe origins of this project. So
just add that piece.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (49:24):
Kroeker closes the chapter with the
note. Given the voices that Ihave listened to for this
project, I have come to believethat peacebuilding must be
lodged within the discussions oftransforming structural
violence, conversations of rootcauses, and all oriented toward
(49:49):
a potential for humanflourishing. Local actors need
to emerge as the primecontributors to perspectives
essential for sustainable peaceplatforms. I reflect on the
power of dance and metaphor Toreform space and inhabit a
retutoring of the body, as wesway and bend, forever being
(50:14):
formed and changed, while heldby the shared roots of
community. May we collapseendless cycles of harm unweaving
looms of colonial thinking,reforming spaces that collapse
distance and weave strands ofrelation and allow our ears, our
(50:35):
mouths, our bodies, our beingsto retutor us. Dancing tinikling
steps, paths, and a bambooswaying to the inner nudges of
the moment.
Dr. Windy Kroeker's book multidimensional peacebuilding local
actors in the Philippine contextis published by Lexington press.
(50:56):
Other resources mentioned inthis podcast can be found on our
website. This is the music andpeacebuilding podcast hosted by
Kevin Shorner-Johnson. AtElizabethtown College, we host a
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(51:20):
at music peace building.com
Able to envision more deeply what peacebuilding
really has to accomplish.
Otherwise, we're doing thatchecklist. But thinking through
how do we really practice thoseways of being together that say
this is our place, so that thesespaces offer transformational
opportunities.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:21):
You are listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at musicpeacebuilding.com Exploring
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imagination.
Through research and story.
Wendy Kroeker specializes incommunity conflict
(00:41):
transformation processes asAssociate Professor in Canadian
Mennonite University's Peace andConflict Transformation studies
department and in locationsaround the globe. She has over
25 years of experience as acommunity mediator, conflict
transformation trainer, peaceProgram Consultant, Program
Manager for internationaldevelopment projects, and
(01:04):
university instructor. She hasworked in the Philippines,
Indonesia, Myanmar, India,Bangladesh and Palestine. In
addition to her teaching inPeace and Conflict
Transformation studies, Wendy isthe academic director of the
Canadian School of peacebuildingand annual teaching Institute at
Canadian Mennonite University,bringing students from around
(01:26):
the globe for courses in thefields of development, conflict
transformation andpeacebuilding. Her research into
the role of local and everydaypeacebuilding has been published
by Lexington press, and istitled multi dimensional
peacebuilding local actors inthe Philippines.
My first question is, is askingyou to maybe set some context
(01:50):
for listeners who are not asfamiliar with Mindanao and
peacebuilding work in thePhilippines. So in your book,
you note that to understandFilipino peace work, and in
particular this region in thesouth of the Philippines that we
must understand the imperialistand the colonialist context and
historical harms. So I wonderedif you could set this context of
(02:13):
peacebuilding within Mindanao.
Wendy Kroeker (02:15):
So the history of the Philippines and the island
of Mindanao in particular isvery complex. And as I wrote in
the book, it is the basistowards understanding peace
possibilities in the region. Sowar, the struggle for Colonial
and Imperial domination, themovements of resistance that
(02:37):
have emerged, the pushing ofidentities and boundaries are
really entrenched within a storythat involves the inhabitants of
this region. So there arestories of violence, corruption,
discrimination, injustice,exploitation in terms of people
and resources are really thefabric of the communities that
lived here. Within that history.
There have been decades somewould say centuries of calls for
(03:01):
justice, attention to rootcauses, calls for the right to
self determination for evenbasic needs to be met. poverty
has increased for the indigenousand the Islamicized indigenous
peoples called Moros, who areMuslim. And the settlers said
admin brought him by theimperial powers from the North
(03:25):
have gotten lots of landresources given to them to to
motivate them to move toMindanao. And that means that
the original inhabitants of theisland have either been pushed
to marginal land or in the caseof the Lumads, the indigenous up
into the mountains.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (03:47):
Prior to the arrival of Spanish
colonialism, some 70 ethnolinguistic groups inhabited the
islands that are collectivelyreferred to as the Philippines.
Between 1300 and 1500 traderoutes shifted, and a Muslim
dynasty formed within theMindanao Region. What followed
was a series of colonialistsubjugation and conquest from
(04:11):
the Spaniards in 1572. To theAmericans in 1898. And finally
to the Japanese in the lead upto World War Two, colonizers
used various oppressive forcesof the sword, the Catholic
Church, economic extraction, andthe pacifying effect of
education. overlapping the endof this colonialist history,
(04:35):
were resettlements of Christianfarmers to the island of
Mindanao. Throughout the 20thcentury. These resettlements
created enormous disparitiesbetween newly arrived Christian
settlers, and displaced Morosand Lumads are Muslim and
indigenous inhabitants. The 1976Tripoli agreement and a series
(04:57):
of peace negotiations led To theBangsamoro Organic Law and the
creation of the BangsamoroAutonomous Region in Muslim
Mindanao. Peace is tenuous, andrequires continuous cultivation
and dialogue that unwindsintertwined histories of
traumas.
(05:20):
And I wondered if if we mightalso be able to talk about
trauma because I think traumaplays a big part in the history.
In your book you talk abouttransgenerational trauma and
also chosen trauma. I think Iwanted to read a quote by you,
you write the traumas, often,quote, reside deep within the
culture, and is not simplybanished after a generation. And
(05:41):
you also talked about Volkan'sScholarship with chosen trauma
about how we constructnarratives of threats and fears.
So can you talk about the degreeto which peacebuilding in this
place needs to embrace kind of along transgenerational view of
trauma and how trauma operateswithin communities?
Wendy Kroeker (06:01):
Could I share a little story that I have in the
book. So let me read a shortstory, I open up each chapter of
my book with a personal story ofmy interaction with either the
landscape, the context or withpeople as a way to ground that
academic chapter. And thechapter on trauma starts with
(06:24):
the story with a friend namedDeng, who has been a longtime,
very respected peacebuilderrespected by all of the tribe
people, for her ability to love,respect, listen, and really
advocate for truth to be spoken.
When I had my interview withher, she made the comment she
(06:45):
emphasized, "it's the trauma ofthe intergenerational trauma.
It's brought on by the coloniallegacy. Because we have been
colonized, then we're not usedto thinking as one people,
because we've been so muchdivided at the convenience of
those who are in power, that wedo not know how to be one. So we
(07:06):
still have that in our psyche.
So it's difficult. So my vision,she says, For Mindanao really is
for us to sit together and startthe process of really
understanding what it is we wantMindanao to be, and how we are
going to get there. What is itthat we want to be? And she
(07:28):
pauses at that point. And wetogether think about that
question that she has put intothe air between us. And she
continues, we're so scared tospeak about it. Because the one
in power might silence us mightcastigate us. We might not get
into heaven, all these things.
So what I did, I didn't say inthe history, but perhaps implied
(07:52):
but the first colonizers beingSpanish, the kind of story that
gets told in the Philippinesthat the Spanish arrived with
the sword in one hand and theBible and the other. And there
was this intertwining of both amilitary takeover. And the
church, the priests, followingthe first generals or leaders
(08:13):
off of the ship, and usingreligion as a way to pacify
people. So we have a proudindependent people who were
living rich lives off the land,being forced into Christianity.
And that came together with thepolitical power that arrived in
(08:35):
terms of the colonial legacy.
And so that trauma of of thefaith and spirituality as well
as those external sort ofboundaries that were given in
terms of what they now could do,or, or not do, created this very
(08:56):
deep sadness, negativeexperience trauma. And this
trauma science is now telling usgets passed along in DNA. And so
whether we intentionally dothis, but the next generation,
your children carry that story,not in their heads as something
they can recite, but in a modeof response to what's happening
(09:20):
to them. And Volkan then talksabout a chosen trauma. And he
defines that a, I quote, "mentalrepresentations of the tragedies
that have befallen the group,"end quote, and so there's a
narrative that gets shaped fromthe experiences that becomes a
(09:43):
narrative becomes the identity.
And that's what gets passed onfrom generation to generation.
So as one tries to thinkthrough, peacebuilding, and Deng
says we're afraid they willsilence us. They will castigate
us in some way they physicallyharm us if we say who we really
are. And so that challenge ofdoing peacebuilding in a context
(10:05):
where people feel such asilencing whether we as
outsiders can see where thatsilencing is coming from or not.
That's carried through the bodyand to the next generation. The
the new science on that isreally quite shocking, shocking,
because therapists counselorswho work within that field,
(10:28):
thought if I can just help thisperson or this community, then
we stop it there, and we getthis fresh start.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (10:39):
As the cumulative effect of
disappearances, torture andassassinations, Kroeker rights
of tactics that crushed socialand cultural institutions of a
generation, and a silencing whenmemories are forced to disappear
in order to survive. Kroekerwrites that trauma healing work
is not enhanced by mechanisticparadigms, but rather by "thick"
(11:04):
approaches that honor identity,gender, children, ethnicities
and memory. Dr. Kroeker and Ispoke about Volkan's work, and
the canvas of group identity. Inhis article on trauma, Volkan
uses imagery of two garments,one that fits snugly, and
represents an individualidentity. The second is the
(11:28):
canvas of a tent, through whicha person shares a bigger story,
and a sense of sameness within agroup and collective identity.
Wendy Kroeker (11:39):
Well, Volkan also says, and I love this quote of
his chosen trauma becomes woveninto the canvas of the tent, end
quote, so this idea of the tentwhere we live, it's just in the
air that we breathe. And so alot of work is now being defined
(12:03):
as trauma informed, traumainformed peacebuilding, for
example, trauma informededucation processes, applied in
a lot of different contexts toacknowledge people are not just
what you see on the surface. Andwe discovered this now as we're
coming out of COVID. So much hashappened to people in these two
(12:24):
years of our isolation. And ifwe assume that we're simply the
people we were when we last saweach other two years ago, we're
going to make some missteps.
Because people have hadexperiences they haven't had the
opportunity to share. We are notthe same people coming out of
COVID, similar kind of dynamicin the Philippines thinking of
trauma, informed peacebuilding.
(12:47):
These are not people simplyfighting for autonomy and their
own right to self determination.
This is carrying a whole bigstory, accountability to a
people and the ancestors to beable to sink back into their
ancestral space and live lifethe way they had hoped for, not
(13:08):
marred or shaped by how that theCatholic nuns and priests told
them in in school that theyneeded to act like or speak like
in order to be good Filipinos.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (13:26):
In times of peace, tent Canvas may hold
expansive openings for adiversity of individual
identities. However, duringtimes of stress, quote, the
garment of the tent canvas takeson greater importance, and
individuals may collectivelyseek the protection of and also
(13:46):
help defend their large grouptent. Protective groups often
enter time collapse to juxtaposegenerational grievances with the
present. Within colonialhistories, violence can be
perpetuated in endless cycles,interrupting cycles of the fear
(14:07):
of the other, Fathe, Bert is aJesuit priest, who is called for
a compassionate concern for theother, and an end to violence.
His writings in native Tagalogname the importance of the inner
self and relational interiority,along with the notion of kapwa,
or concern for the other.
Kroeker relayed the story of histransformation and impact.
(14:35):
Yeah, I think at one point inthis interview, I wanted to note
just how much the story that youtold a father Bert had so much
meaning for me because I feellike his his story was one. I
mean, I really sense that he wasreally wrestling within the
stories that he told about wherehe was, what his role was, and
starting to to embrace a senseof change as he started becoming
(14:58):
near the Other
Wendy Kroeker (14:59):
Father, Bert is an amazing person. So here's a
Filipino Catholic priest whogets placed as a young priest
for his first parish, in one ofthe key areas of fighting that
was, you know, the decades ofwar all at war that was
happening in Mindanao. And hesaw his obligation to Catholics,
(15:20):
and his parishioners, and woulddo what he could to save them.
And he had some experienceswhere he was afraid both of
military and of Muslims thatwould have been ingrained in him
as a Filipino Christian thatdon't go near the Muslim
communities, they, they'll killyou, they'll hurt you in some
(15:42):
way, is based on their religion,they're violent people, this
would have been the story thathe would have grown up with. And
so now as a priest, he's tryingto save his his parishioners,
from the violence that couldcome from the Muslims and from
the war that's happening hisarea. At one point in the height
(16:05):
of the war, everybody in thecommunity was coming to the
church to find refuge from thefighting that was going on. And
he has this quote, in the bookof "at night, I would hear
mothers crying, and it didn'tmatter any longer, whether these
were Muslim mothers or Christianmothers, indigenous mothers,
(16:28):
these are mothers crying for theloss of their children." And he
had a, we could say, aconversion experience, in that
moment of realizing all humanitywas lying there in front of him.
And that he had the opportunityto bring people together to try
and bring some some sense of, ofsafety of new relationships of a
(16:51):
peace to that community and thathe by changing his perceptions
of who people were, could becomea peacemaker within that region.
And he has become someone, soloved by the tribe people in his
community, for having thatcourage to step out of the
confines of what the CatholicChurch would sort of prescribe
(17:14):
for him. And he was seen to beso radical that the Catholic
Church transferred him toanother parish. And people cried
for days, I've been told, whenthey found that he was leaving,
Christians, Muslims, indigenous,crying, this priest that had
given them such hope andpossibilities of living
(17:36):
together, was being taken fromthem by the Catholic bureaucracy
said, Ooh, this kind oftheological action is getting
too dangerous for us, whichwhich tells you about the
fragility of of many of those inpower, when they see those who
offer assistance to others asbeing the ones that are putting
(17:58):
the church in jeopardy. Yeah,when she was moved back to that
parish, that the calls were justso great, and of course, that
the church has had its owntransformation during these
decades as well. And hecontinues amazing work.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (18:19):
So I want to get to your metaphors. But I
think before we do that, I thinkwe also need to talk about this
transformation that's happeningin peacebuilding about local
voices. So your work is groundedin the importance of local space
and agency. And I really loveyour quote about local space,
you state "space is never empty,it always embodies a meaning and
(18:39):
thus there is forever thepotential for something
substantive to emerge." So Iwondered if you could speak
about meaning filled local spaceand the power of local voice in
this work that you've beendoing?
Wendy Kroeker (18:54):
last 50 years of sort of concretizing and
creating institutions and thatkind of thing came out of what a
lot of it would be at the UnitedNations in terms of looking at
(19:14):
post conflict reconstruction,and the need of outsider
international third parties asbeing necessary, or helping to
reconstruct societies overcomeby whatever the conflict
violence was in that region. Andso a lot of our peacebuilding
work was was imagined aroundwhat that third party and
(19:39):
eventually we got to ethicalconversations, realizing that
third parties could do harm. Soa movement called by Mary
Anderson "do no harm," but stillthat kept the international
third party is front and centerin terms of salvation of people
within that violence, conflictimpacted region. And it's only
(20:01):
been really maybe started beinguttered in the last, say 20
years of looking to the wisdom,the power of what comes out of a
local context, of third partyfolks realizing we can't
accomplish anything, we don'tknow that culture, what might be
(20:24):
key key symbols and avenues forbringing people together. And
listening to this kind ofthinking it might be like, how
could people not think thatlocal folks could be the ones to
find the solutions to their ownproblems? Well this has been the
plight of Western doers andthinkers, for centuries, that we
(20:48):
have the handle on what's what'sbest and have the resources
monies, that kind of thing thatwill move things forward. So
that's been a change within thepeacebuilding field, quite a
transformation. Local voice...
has really been a move to a kindof humbling respectful way of
imagining peacebuilding ofsitting together, hearing into
(21:14):
spaces, what do people need?
What do people mean when theysay we want the right to self
determination, it means settingwith traumas with people.
Lefebvre who is probably themaybe the most famous writer
about space calls, let me justmake sure that I get the quote,
(21:37):
correct here.
Place happens when we havepracticed space. So place
meaning the place we belong, theplace that has meaning for us,
happens only when we acknowledgewho we are in the spaces in
which we find ourselves andbegin to practice, social
(22:00):
practice says that move us backtogether as human beings. So
space to place is kind of a hasbeen a philosophical theme. And
I thought to apply that topeacebuilding in the sense of
what happens when people inlocal communities are attentive
(22:21):
to what each other needs. Soit's not just oh, we live in
this island, but that thisisland has this history of
people collaborating together,fish in the same waters
together, we practice our socialpractices together such that the
place becomes this place for allof us. And some of the
(22:43):
transformational things thathave been occurring in some of
these very violence impactedcommunities is that Muslims
stand outside the church onEaster Sunday, and greet
Christians coming out withbouquets of flowers. And
Christians preparing food andjoining Muslims at the end of
(23:07):
Ramadan, their feasting. Thatit's not an antagonistic
relationship of we're twodifferent religions. And one is
right and one is wrong, but tosay, we are peoples of faith
together, we will support eachother in substantiating and
celebrating our faiths knowingthat when we are the best of our
(23:28):
faiths, we are the besttogether. That only comes when
it's local people saying what dowe have invested here? How can
we? How can we continue ontogether, move to better places
where we have a potential for usto flourish together. So spaces
where we become deliberate,seeing and you know, seeing each
(23:51):
other's faces, looking intoother's eyes, being deliberate
in those spaces to acknowledgewho we are, and that we've all
been here for centuries and canname our generations. That's the
kind of space where somethingsubstantial can happen. And
that's been a slow change,because so much pain has been
(24:15):
has happened historically witheach other. But realizing a lot
of that pain was initiated by anexternal party that was trying
to divide and conquer, which isthe oldest military strategy in
the world probably. Andrealizing we can coexist, we can
co-habit this space.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (24:38):
However, I really need to check out that
resource from Lefebvre, I had, Idon't think I had heard that
idea of place and space. That'sfascinating.
Wendy Kroeker (24:46):
Yeah, I found that meaningful and a way to
then be able to envision moredeeply what peacebuilding really
has to accomplish. Otherwise,we're doing a checklist But
thinking through how do wereally practice those ways of
being together to say this isour place, so that these spaces
(25:09):
offer transformationalopportunities,
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (25:13):
and naming space where something
substantial can happen. Kroekersites Lefebvre as a seminal
thinker on the production ofspace. Lefebvre's space is
simultaneously physical, mentaland social. He notes how power
is articulated through space,and how our mental
representations and beliefsimpact the social realization of
(25:37):
space within the potential forquote, "something substantive to
emerge." Lefebvre notes thatsocial change cannot occur
without a changed space. Irealize that colonial space is a
space of fragmentation anddisconnect in the service of
(25:57):
domination. Lefebvre andGottdiener contrast, the Greek
agora with the cementedstructures of Roman power, one
spatial structure was open andfluid, and the other was
cemented, and hyperfocusedtoward power centered voices. As
I watch video, after video oftinikling dance, I understand
(26:20):
that the arts are powerful,because they are a reforming of
space. To watch tinikling is towatch a collective focus,
entrainment, and coordination ofrhythmic bamboo poles, steps
claps and music. A collective isheld together in dance that
continues to reform and subvertcolonial pasts.
(26:44):
So Hip Hop tinkling, this is agreat example of something that
comes out of local voices, Ithink you had prepared a
particular metaphor for them,they were like, Nah, doesn't
really fit. And so with yourparticipants help you centered
on hip hop, which I think mymusic listeners are gonna love.
So would you talk about hip hop,tinkling, and what this metaphor
(27:05):
holds for peacebuilding, andalso maybe what the art form is,
the symbolism that's at playhere, and why it transfers as a
metaphor for peace.
Wendy Kroeker (27:14):
I love metaphors.
And Filipinos also are verycreative. They're there, many of
their local languages usepicture words to describe
concepts and ideas. And so Ireally wanted and hoped that I
would come up with a metaphorthat really captured the kind of
things that people were talkingabout. And there is a lot of
(27:36):
dancing at every kind ofFilipino gathering. And so I
thought, yes, it's like a dance,you have your partners, you got
to work together, we may step oneach other's toes at times. And
so I did a trial run with all ofthe people that I interviewed, I
(27:59):
went to the Philippines, I threwa party for the folks that I
interviewed and presented mypreliminary findings to see what
they would think of what I cameup with what I'd heard from
them. And so I presented thisidea that Filipino peacebuilding
is like ballroom dancing, whichthey're so expert at. And I felt
(28:20):
very underprepared at manyplaces to do all the various
dances that they were doing. Andso I said this, and there was
silence in the room. And ofcourse, you know, whenever
there's that silence, you go,un-oh what what just happened
here? And a very goodpeacebuilding friend stood up,
(28:43):
and he said, Wendy, we reallyliked you. You've been with us
for 25 years. But we can't livewith that metaphor. Those dances
came to us from the colonialpowers. And yes, we have
embraced them and enjoy, enjoyedthem. But this is the link to to
intergenerational trauma. Thosedances were forced upon them
(29:06):
with the exclusion of their owndances, and they lost many of
their own dances. And they onlyknow now this ballroom dancing,
but yet they are coming torealize there's a trauma story
that's connected to them beingable to be really great ballroom
dancers. So I said, Okay, let'sjust right now start, help me
(29:29):
think through what would be anappropriate metaphor. You've
heard the kinds of things I'veheard from you. The kind of
themes and the beauty, what I'mseeing of your local peace
building. And then Lindy says,Wendy, I think it should be
tinikling. And that's anindigenous dance that has been
(29:49):
recovered. And then she said,Actually, I think you need hip
hop tinikling. So let me sayWhat tinikling is and then I'll
say what Hip Hop tinikling is.
Because there's this kind ofprogression of, of being, of
(30:12):
discovering identity within thatprogression. So tinikling, is a
traditional, at least 200 yearold dance that is done with four
people. So in pairs, they hold abamboo pole, and they hold these
bamboo poles parallel to eachother, and they pound them on
(30:33):
the ground, and then they bangthem together, and they keep
going ground, and then bang themtogether, ground and then bang
them together, and they had thisbeat that they do. And then the
dancers have to move intricatesteps in between this moving
bamboo. And I've tried thisseveral times. And if you try to
do these fancy moves, and youdon't get your ankle out in
(30:56):
time, your ankle is crushedbetween these two bamboo poles
that was popping togetherthe history of that dance is
that if the tinkling it, thinks,is maybe from the tinkling bird
(31:16):
that had kind these long storklike awkward legs. And they're
kind of mimicking the movementof the birds legs. But would get
done in the evening, they cansee it's from the bird, because
that's where the name kind ofcomes from. But it was to
communicate with each other thatevery day if we don't harvest
(31:39):
enough sugarcane, we getpunished. And so we have to be
agile on the on the sugarcanefield so that we don't get
punished by the Hacienda owner.
And so in the evening, tocelebrate that they've made it
through a day, another day, theywould do this dance, and when
(32:01):
the Hacienda owners would comeand see what they're doing, oh,
we're just doing our dances. Butthe dance was to give us
strength for the next day toovercome the super violence that
was in their midst. And soeveryone, even now, this this
dance has, has lasted throughthe centuries, and every school
kid learns it. But now ofcourse, a new generation has
(32:23):
come forward and sort ofthinking, Oh, that's an old
dance. And when hip hop came up,you know, kids are listening to
hip hop at the same time as theelders are doing this tinikling.
And somehow those two like theywere coexisting at the same
fiesta party, and came togetherwere some of the young folks as
(32:47):
they would do their dance movesin the tinikling, realize they
could add their hip hop beatinto it. And so they would enter
on the side with hip hop dancemoves, and then move into the
space of the clapping bamboo,and do moves and then exit into
hip hop moves. And it's reallyamazing to watch. They've been
(33:10):
able to add to this narrativeof, we will survive. That is
really quite powerful in itswell, it being sort of a story
of hope that we have an identitythat that will survive the
colonial, Imperial domination,the corruption, the
discrimination that we'veexperienced, and celebrate it
(33:32):
with this dance that tells astory, and has added new
challenges for the new youngergeneration to keep holding that
story. And oftentimes, we havestories that don't capture the
younger imagination, thinkingoh, that's back then. This has
(33:53):
been this beautiful melding ofthe ancient dance. With a new
music form to say, we we canstill be in that space of the
old dance with the issues foryoung people in today's time.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (34:15):
That's just a lovely story. I love that
story of how that metaphor holdsresonance. I would love to ask
you about performance andperformance of dialogue. In this
book, you you draw on the workof Judith Butler and her notion
of performativity. You write,"the agency of a group can be
developed through events such asdialogue that nurture and
interiority of desired changes.
This means that we have theopportunity to incorporate that
(34:38):
of which we are speaking intothe depths of our being." It's,
it's about kind of performingyour way into a new way of being
or really using your body tomove into that space. Could you
help me understandperformativity at a little
deeper level, and what role thisplays in peace work?
Wendy Kroeker (34:58):
Again, I'll take a little step Back, as I
listened to the folks that I wasinterviewing, and asked about,
what was some of the peace workthat they were doing? Many of
them, maybe all of themmentioned, the importance of
dialogue. And again, that fitsinto that, that space into
(35:19):
place, kind of conversation wehad earlier, of really their
desire to say we have to sittogether to be transformed. And
dialogue is a format thatprovides for that. And they do
this on a community basis,community level, where people
would sit together in a circle,and a facilitator, an elder or
(35:43):
an outside facilitator, wouldbring them into conversation
around a set of questions tohelp them explore where the
tension points lie, as Ilistened to them, them
describing dialogue, I realizedthey were describing in a
different way than I experiencedtoday, in my North American
(36:04):
context, they all talked about,we have our dialogue. And then
when we go out, we thinkdifferently, we are different,
we have a different way ofbeing. And every person talked
about that. And I startedthinking there's, they have an
(36:25):
expectation or a hope that it'snot just this term around the
circle, but there's a lifetransformation that needs to
that they hope occurs, or anaccountability that we walk out
of here as different people byhaving placed ourselves into
this context and this experienceof this dialogue.
(36:50):
James Austin is the one who'scoined the term performativity.
And in its kind of originaltechnical definition, I'll quote
from Austin, it's an utterancethat brings what it states into
(37:10):
being, or it makes a set ofevents happen." And I realize
often in North America, we thinkof dialogue is these words, in
the space in which we are,performativity theory is that
when we state something, so theclassical example of Austin, is
that of a marriage ceremony,when people say I do to each
(37:36):
other. And in that second, theyare transformed from people
living separately to peopleliving together. So they this
utterance is, is this almostmagical moment of you are now in
a new reality. So thinkingthrough the kind of dialogue I
was hearing from folks was,these are not just words, we
(37:57):
say. And we're not just checkingthis off for an international
development project that says,OK, twice a year, you've got to
bring X number of people, equalnumber of men and women into
these kinds of processes. Theseare engagements, where they call
people together, to share theirtruth with the expectation that
(38:21):
they are new people when theywalk out of the door. And that
is performativity theory inaction. And when you have that
expectation, that gap therethere is this power in
gathering, such that when wespeak from our heart, there is
this hope and this expectationthat transformation will take
(38:44):
place. And talking with manypeople who have been part of
these dialogues, this is alsothe story they tell. They
exchange cell phone numbers witheach other as they walk out.
They may go to the little coffeekiosk and grab a coffee before
they take their bus back totheir village. You see that
happen... And they don't say itat the start of the dialogue.
(39:08):
Okay, we expect you to chainexchange cell phone numbers. At
the end, we expect to drinkcoffee together. There's
something about how thesefacilitators and it can only be
local have a wisdom to know thatwe were meant to live together
and before the colonizers came,we lived together. And so
(39:30):
they're grabbing that those deepreaches of the past to say we
lived together, we can come backinto that space of being able to
live together.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (39:42):
Dialogue that creates a different way of
being. Kroeker encourages themagical moments of utterances in
spaces with the hope of bending,change and transformation.
Bamboo was a key metaphor inmulti dimensional peacebuilding
that symbolized a movement, aconversational flexibility that
(40:05):
listens, quote, to the innernudges of the moment. Bamboo
sways and bins to the winds,illustrating the back and forth
dialogue and, quote, the hope offinding paths for
reconciliation. Paths ofreconciliation may require a
(40:25):
re-tutoring of the body, a kindof action, often found in the
utterances of dialogue. Mahmoodis a leading thinker who extends
Butler's performativity. In herstudies of action, agency and
ethics within Islamic politicsof piety. Kroeker introduces
(40:45):
Mahmood's work,
Wendy Kroeker (40:47):
she talks about the piety of Muslim women and
the veil of retutoring the body,and I loved her work on looking
at Muslim woman piety as a wayto think through what was
happening in the dialoguecircle, that by that gathering
together, uttering the words, weare retutoring the body, I found
(41:13):
that a beautiful thing andrealizing we have so much muscle
memory we go on. And we have tochange the way we do things
which can take some physicaleffort, but can also take a huge
amount of risk. So knowing thatwhen they come out of that
dialogue, and they exchangedcell phone numbers, or Christian
(41:34):
with a Muslim, vice versa,that's a courageous act. So this
small moment of conversation hascreated a courageous retutoring
of how they do communitytogether, that others who
weren't in that moment aren'tgoing to understand how they
could now strike up a friendshipwith the ones that were, you
(41:57):
know, are going to kill all theChristians. But they have been
retutored within thisperformative environment that
helps them be do think speak ina new way. And this kind of deep
engagement I think really liesat the hope of what can happen
(42:20):
in Mindanao.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (42:23):
So you talk about flexible bamboos as
your other metaphor as a way inwhich kind of there's this give
and take within peacebuildingconversation. So could you talk
about why this, why thismetaphor matters?
Wendy Kroeker (42:36):
One of the people that I interviewed, he's
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (42:38):
I asked Dr. Kroeker if there was
affectionately fondly referredto as chairman Iqbal. He has
been in the leadership of theMILF the Moro Islamic Liberation
Front, he was a jungle commanderfor decades in the armed
conflict against the governmentof the Philippines, and is now
(43:00):
the group with whom thegovernment has signed a peace
agreement. And at one point, hesaid to me, a quote something
like "for our survival, we needto bend like the bamboo."
That's, that's what got methinking that every place I was
at, either the table was made ofbamboo, the house was made of
(43:25):
bamboo, the cup was made ofbamboo, the... almost anything
could think of the jewelry thatwomen wore was made of bamboo.
It was ubiquitous everywhere.
And I thought, yeah, just likethe tinikling was a metaphor
that captured the way peoplemove together. Bamboo was
(43:45):
something that linked to theirsurvival. It was everything. It
was food, it was utensils, itwas building materials. And so
when Chairman Iqbal said we needto move like bamboo. I started
to research how, how does bamboomove? and I realized there's two
(44:06):
kinds of bamboo. There is thekind of bamboo that shares root
a root system underground, so wedon't see it. But each bamboo is
connected to anotherunderground, it's rhizome. And
then there is clumping bamboothat just likes to situate
(44:27):
itself together. And so Ithought about those two very
basic kinds of bamboo plants andthought, I discovered two basic
ways that Philippinepeacebuilders interact with the
communities that they're workingwith. So I talked about the ones
that go between. Now thoseunderground rhizomes of those
(44:51):
who have the ability to move asan insider into another
community and be an insiderthere and accept it, and that
they can be a conduit tobuilding a new relationship
together. And then there arethose who come alongside. They
clump together, the solidarityfolks who are building stronger
(45:16):
communities are embedded withintheir context and strengthening
their communities forconstructive peace work. And so,
bamboo is this incredible plantthat's strong enough to build
your house, but yet istechnically a grass. It provides
nourishment and food and Ithought, what better way to
(45:41):
describe Philippinepeacebuilders and their work
than using bamboo as a metaphorthat, that captures the kind of
efforts and ways of being thatthey have. And knowing that
there are not just there isn'tjust one kind of bamboo, there
are many different kinds ofbamboos. And so there are
(46:05):
different kinds of peacebuilders that have their, their
asset grounded in a slightlydifferent space than the other,
and each providing somethingessential to what it really
means for this, the groups ofpeople that are living in
Mindanao to flourish and to domore than survival to flourish
(46:29):
together, despite the externalpressures to keep them apart. So
Iqbal's comment that we need tobend like bamboo is the other
thing. It's not a plant thatsnaps. It can withstand typhoons
of great magnitude, and sway tothose challenges, still keeping
(46:51):
its integrity and being able tosurvive for another day, to
provide life and livelihood tothe peoples around it. So it
became for me a powerful way ofimagining these Philippine
peacebuilders that I see have somuch courage, so much wisdom, so
(47:11):
much deep care for their peopleto survive well together. And
they are bending in the wind.
anything that I hadn't askedher, she closed by relaying the
story of how she found herselfholding these stories as the
(47:34):
center of her research.
Wendy Kroeker (47:36):
A question though, that got asked of me of
my research, why you Wendy, aprairie girl from Canada is
researching Philippinepeacebuilders? In 1996, I went
to the Philippines as thedevelopment worker with an
organization called MennoniteCentral Committee, lived in a
(47:57):
community two years, went home,they, the community asked for me
to come back. So my family and Iwent for another two years, and
I have now been in thePhilippines other than COVID
times, every year to work withcommunities, work on projects do
teaching, to listen, this isgetting on to the 25 ish years
(48:21):
or so. When I was contemplatinga PhD, a couple of Philippine
friends came to me and said,Wendy, can you do us for your
research? I said, What do youmean, do you? Can you look at
Philippine peacebuilders Wendy,we are so busy doing the work,
we have no time to reflect. Butif you would ask us to reflect
(48:45):
with sit down with us for aninterview, we'd be forced to
stop and reflect. And so onething I would just add, I was so
honored to be asked to do that.
And I'm so honored to hold thesestories and share these stories,
and which is why each one ofthem said Please give our real
name. We are real people. Theseare our stories. And so I, it
(49:09):
was a labor of love to say hearvoices that other people should
hear and not just me. So that'sthe origins of this project. So
just add that piece.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (49:24):
Kroeker closes the chapter with the
note. Given the voices that Ihave listened to for this
project, I have come to believethat peacebuilding must be
lodged within the discussions oftransforming structural
violence, conversations of rootcauses, and all oriented toward
(49:49):
a potential for humanflourishing. Local actors need
to emerge as the primecontributors to perspectives
essential for sustainable peaceplatforms. I reflect on the
power of dance and metaphor Toreform space and inhabit a
retutoring of the body, as wesway and bend, forever being
(50:14):
formed and changed, while heldby the shared roots of
community. May we collapseendless cycles of harm unweaving
looms of colonial thinking,reforming spaces that collapse
distance and weave strands ofrelation and allow our ears, our
(50:35):
mouths, our bodies, our beingsto retutor us. Dancing tinikling
steps, paths, and a bambooswaying to the inner nudges of
the moment.
Dr. Windy Kroeker's book multidimensional peacebuilding local
actors in the Philippine contextis published by Lexington press.
(50:56):
Other resources mentioned inthis podcast can be found on our
website. This is the music andpeacebuilding podcast hosted by
Kevin Shorner-Johnson. AtElizabethtown College, we host a
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(51:20):
at music peace building.com
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