April 7, 2022 • 37 mins
Drawing upon the input of 20 activist musicians, Dr. Juliet Hess wrote a book about building curricula that support noticing, naming, and coming to voice. Building from Paulo Freire’s understandings from the Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Hess offers a curriculum that asks students to construct songs, discuss soundscapes, and notice and name the structures that surround our expressions of music. Exploring the lessons of James Hwang, Lisa Vaugeouis, and Theresa Vu and Taiyo Na of the Magnetic North Band, we enter profound lessons that seek to hold space for student voices in music education curricula.
The Music & Peacebuilding Podcast is hosted by Kevin Shorner-Johnson at Elizabethtown College. Join our professional development network at www.musicpeacebuilding.com - thinking deeply we reclaim space for connection and care.
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Juliet Hess (00:00):
We are working alongside a lot of different
people who are trying to, to,you know, create an anti racist
pedagogy that is intersectionaland embracing across identities
and there are so many misstepsthat are possible in this work
and you know what works for oneperson doesn't necessarily work
for another person. So we reallyneed to kind of be in that space
(00:23):
of knowing that we haven'tpossibly got it right.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:26):
You're listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at music peacebuildingdot com, exploring intersections
of peacebuilding, sacredness,community, creativity and
imagination through research andstory. Juliet Hess is an
associate professor of musiceducation at Michigan State
(00:48):
University, having previouslytaught elementary and middle
school music in Toronto. Herbook, music education for social
change. constructing an activistmusic education explores the
intersection of activism,critical pedagogy, and music
education. Her second book,trauma and resilience in music
education haunted melodies is anedited volume co edited with
(01:11):
Deborah Bradley. Juliettereceived her PhD in sociology of
education from the OntarioInstitute for Studies in
Education at the University ofToronto. Her research interests
include anti oppression,education, trauma informed
pedagogy, activism and music andmusic, education, music
education for social justice,disability and mad studies, and
(01:35):
the question of ethics in worldmusic study. This conversation
opened in response to herrecently released resource,
constructing an activist musiceducation, a six through 12
curriculum, and the accompanyingtext published by Routledge
press, her curriculum text wasfunded by a generous grant from
(01:56):
Agrigento.
So I'll start with the firstquestion. So I really enjoyed
reading your book. And very muchnotice the way that it's
grounded in Freirean criticalpedagogy, which you really open
up at the beginning of the book.
So for listeners who are not asfamiliar with Freirean critical
pedagogy, will you introduce usto this call to noticing naming
and coming to voice that youintroduce in this book?
Juliet Hess (02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think, you know, noticingis rooted in noticing the
conditions that shape our lives.
Freire describe this process islike conscientization, or a
coming to consciousness. So tojust really recognize the
ideologies that circulate in thethings that kind of shape the
(02:41):
conditions that you experience,and Freire describes this
process as naming the world. Sohis early work on literacy,
describes the process ofliteracy as what he called
reading the word of the world.
His literacy work explicitlytied literacy practices to the
world surrounding the students.
And he didn't even think ofstudents necessarily as students
(03:03):
in that kind of traditionalhierarchical power situation.
But he, he referred to theteacher, as a teacher/student,
as someone who also learns fromstudents and students, as
students/teachers, as in theircapacity to teach the teacher.
So then the coming to voicepiece, it involves students
asserting their perspectivesabout the conditions that shape
(03:25):
their lives. But it also is justan expression of asserting your
views into the world aboutissues that are important to
them. So it's learning to kindof develop that ability to
assert yourself. So I write inthe book about developing a
practice of critique within aculture of questioning. And
that, for me, is one of the keygoals of education. And it's not
indoctrination as the anticritical race theory folks seem
(03:48):
to fear. But it's, you know,teaching critical thinking in a
way that students can bediscerning and formulate views
for themselves, which I thinkis, you know, at the forefront
of like the things that we needto be doing right now.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (04:03):
Then, at the same time, that you're
embracing these words, likeliberation, you're very much
also offering a warning againstthe very dogmatic certainty of
implementation. So will youspeak to why an awareness of
problems of dogmatic certaintyare really important when you're
constructing an activist musiceducation?
Juliet Hess (04:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's such a good question. Imean, I think, at the moment
that we as educators feel likewe have something figured out is
that that's the exact momentthat we slip. So pedagogy is
relational. So there's nocertainty the ground is always
shifting and it should shift. Sodogmatic pedagogy, like dogmatic
activism is for me when peopleget hurt. So there's no room in
(04:46):
that for nuance necessarily. Andit can miss really complex
intersections of identity. Itdoesn't it doesn't see gray
area. So as Foucault writes, andI use this to start one of my
chapters. he writes, My point isnot that everything is bad, but
that everything is dangerous,which is not exactly the same as
bad. If everything is dangerous,then we always have something to
(05:07):
do. So implementing a pedagogyrooted in activism is absolutely
dangerous, and in more ways thanone. So at the most basic of
levels, the legislation that weare seeing being implemented
around the country, opposingcritical race theory, or so
called divisive concepts, suchas whiteness and white
privilege, or queerness, meansthat it's quite literally
(05:30):
dangerous to teach from anactivist frame. So that's a real
and present danger. The dangerthat I write about in the book,
however, is more from a criticalperspective, like how things can
go wrong based on what I'mproposing. So I put forward kind
of three pedagogies in the book,a pedagogy of community and a
pedagogy of expression, and apedagogy of noticing, and each
of them refracts in veryparticular ways. You know, I
(05:51):
want to look at all of the waysthat those things can also go
wrong when we implement them.
Because keeping in mind, thingsthat don't work is also really
important. So, for example, in apedagogy of community, like how
the wish to connect to groupsbeyond your own personal
experience could maybe lead toexoticism. So that's not a very
(06:13):
helpful outcome. But on anothernote, I think the times when we
slip also provide opportunitiesfor mending. So I think there's
a strong tendency that isparticularly communicated to
young teachers, that weshouldn't own it when we mess up
in the classroom, but we shouldabsolutely own it, and do the
work necessary to repair anydamage. I mean, of course, it's
(06:36):
better if damage does not occur,but doing the work to repair any
missteps, I think goes a longway to mending relationships.
And I think, you know, embracinguncertainty means that you're
going to be doing some mending.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (06:51):
Hess notes the power of dreaming
within Freirean pedagogy. Shestates quote, when we imagine a
possible future that movesbeyond the mechanical repetition
of the present, something morebecomes possible in a refusal of
automatic reinscription. Freirecenters the agency inherent and
(07:11):
dreaming, the ability to makechange and create a different
possible future. He Grounds thisnotion firmly in reality, rather
than pointing naively to somekind of causal relationship
between dreaming and change, henotes that without dreaming,
change remains impossible. Thisdreaming then does not result in
(07:33):
top down imposition upon others.
But a bottom up RelationalApproach, rooted in love, hope,
care, and optimism. Instead ofworking from a deficit
perspective, Hess notes that anethic of quote, uncertainty may
help educators enact criticaleducation in a way that honors
the full humanity of students.
(07:59):
Okay, so as we move to yournewest text, you you grounded in
the narrative of the 20 activistmusicians who and there's a
quote from you hold a range ofdifferent identities in terms of
gender, race, class, sexualorientation, immigration, age,
geography, religion,spirituality and disability. So
I want to invite you if you wantto introduce us to some of these
(08:22):
people's stories that you bringinto the book that really ground
your narrative.
Juliet Hess (08:27):
So I wanted to highlight the work of all of the
activist musicians because Ithink they're incredible, but I
realized that that's impossible.
So I thought I would highlight afew folks whose ideas really
heavily influenced thecurriculum. Jason Hwang was a he
was 58 when I interviewed him,and this was back in 2014. He
describes himself as anindependent artist, violinist
(08:49):
and composer. He's ChineseAmerican, originally from
Illinois and living in Jersey.
And Jason wrote and performedjazz new... and new and world
music and his music fuse, fuseswestern and eastern sounds, and
draws really innovatively uponChinese traditional instruments.
(09:10):
He worked regularly in schoolsas a teaching artist when I
interviewed him. And one of thethings that he did when he was
teaching in Harlem, which reallystruck me was he created chants
for the young students that hewas working with. And these
chants like really served asaffirmations. So affirming, for
example, like that many of thestudents were multilingual. So
(09:30):
he thought it would just be agood idea if that affirmation
was running through their headsas they were kind of going
throughout their day. So as aresult of his work, creating
affirming chants is part of thecurriculum, and other elements
of Jason's work with youngpeople are also in the
curriculum, and I really wasgrateful for the things that he
put forward when we got to be inconversation.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (09:51):
Jason Hwang notes that his
compositions or narrativelandscapes through which Sonic
beings embark uponextemporaneous, transformational
journeys. In the liner notes tohis provocative album, The Human
Rights trio. Hwang writes that,quote, The psychic intensity
both sacred and sacrificial,provokes a heightened awareness
(10:15):
that unifies listeners andmusicians within a spiritual
entrainment. As we hearourselves within music, we
become music, which is no longera performance, but an
affirmation of justice, andcelebration of life.
Juliet Hess (10:33):
The second person who I want to introduce is Lise
Vaugeois. She was also 58 When Iinterviewed her and is a
musician, scholar, composer,educator, and activist, and
she's from Thunder Bay, Ontario.
And she self identifies as awhite Canadian with Italian and
French heritage and her doctoralwork in music education, which
is beautiful work focused oncolonization and indigeneity. In
Canada and western classicalmusic's complicity in colonial
(10:56):
violence. It's really importantwork. So some time ago, she
created a tool called musicallife histories. And musical life
histories is a series ofquestions that allow someone to
kind of excavate like thehistories of different musics.
So the questions are extremelycritical. And they encourage us
to think about both presencesand absences and music. So the
(11:18):
absences for me is really key.
So asking, for example, whoengages in this music and who
does not? So I think, you know,asking the series of questions
that she put forward in that2009 article, really help us to
think about where musicalpractices come from, and who
(11:39):
participates and who doesn't,and what kinds of spaces they're
in. And some of the powerdynamics that are embedded
really, you know, it really getsit power when you go through the
series of questions. So I thinkthey really help us get to the
heart of how different musicsare practiced. And that's also
included in the curriculum andin the book as well, thanks to
(12:00):
Lise allowing me to do that.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (12:03):
In my heavily highlighted copy of
Hess' book, one of my favoritesections is the reprint of Lise
Vaugeois' was guiding questions.
Vaugeois asks about performanceregulations, who is allowed in
and who is kept out who profitsand how, and encourages a
critical examination of lyrics.
(12:23):
She asks, are lyrics significantto this music? What languages
are used? Why these languagesand not others? What are the
lyrics about? How are genderrace and classes represented?
Why are genders races classespresent or absent? In
(12:44):
questioning what is andwonderings about what could be,
we might embark on journeys tolower barriers to full
belonging.
Juliet Hess (12:54):
The third activist musician that I want to
introduce you to is T Vu, TeresaVu. She was 32 when I
interviewed her and isVietnamese American, and she
grew up on the West Coast. She'sa computer programmer and a hip
hop artist living in New YorkCity and her group magnetic
north created the album HomeWord, which explores issues of
(13:15):
Asian American identity in the21st century. So T Vu saw music
as a way to educate listeners onpolitical issues, and also
organized benefit concerts toraise awareness and funds for
issues affecting Asian Americanpopulations in particular, and
they've got a concert upcomingsoon in New York City. So I just
(13:36):
like so many of T Vu's ideas,made it into the curriculum. So
she talks about the way that shedemystified music for her
younger cosmic cousins by likeshowing them the kind of four
chord song like, you know, theidea that many pop songs use the
same four chord structure. Andonce you kind of break away that
mystery, it allows you to writemusic in a way that you maybe
(13:57):
were intimidated to do sobefore. She also talks about how
covers that change the meaningof the original song are really
interesting to her. And alsoabout the way mashups can put
two contradictory songs inconversation. So these ideas are
all a part of the curriculum. Ithought so much of what she said
was so explicitly pedagogical,and I really wanted to draw on
(14:18):
that. So one of the things shesaid in the interview, and I
think this is just reallyinteresting for us to think
about, she said, sometimes it'slike Mary Poppins saying
medicine needs sugar. Sometimemessages need these flowing,
beautiful instrumentals just toget through to you. It can be a
lot to take in, but music can bethat kind of sugar to just open
your mind. And I love that. Andit also really makes me think
(14:42):
that perhaps music is thevehicle to communicate some of
these hard truths to people.
The last activist musician who Iwant to introduce you to is
Taiyo Na, he was 31 when Iinterviewed him and he's a Hip
Hop artist in New York City. Hedescribes himself as an Asian
(15:03):
American male, he centeredcommunity in his work and
explored identity, in his musicand his education focused on
African and Asian PacificAmerican Studies, and
subsequently inclusiveeducation. So at the time of the
study, Taiyo was performingregularly and also taught high
school English. So I just soappreciated how Taiyo talks
(15:24):
about community. So when he wastalking about creating
community, musically, he sharedand this is a quote from him,
jamming vibing and improvisingwith a group of people musically
theatrically, that's thepractice of community, you have
to listen to each other. Andmake sure that people have their
solo space or lecturing space,but at the same time, fall back
and listen to places whereeverybody can participate. So
(15:47):
that idea was just fundamentalto the curriculum, and many of
the community based lessonsreally orient around that idea.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (15:54):
The inspirations of T Vu and Taiyo
Na, can be found in the magneticnorth band, and the inspirations
of the home word album. So manyof these songs explore the
cartography of belonging,challenging the racism and hate
leveled against Asian Americancommunities, noting long
(16:15):
histories of Asian Americancommunities and villainization,
this album is a call to theabolition of suffering, and the
embrace of belonging, a home,that is a light within.
I'm just curious, after havingread that book, I'm sure that
you sat with those voices for along time. And everything that
(16:37):
there was to teach you in that.
How has your approach topreparing and developing music
teachers changed as a result ofsitting with these voices for
such a long time?
Juliet Hess (16:49):
I mean, I think, you know, one of the key things
that came out that was, I mean,maybe not surprising, given who
I interviewed, but maybeunexpected given what we
typically do in music educationwas that when, when it came to
discussing pedagogy, 18 of the20 people that I interviewed,
were like, songwriting needs tobe part of curriculum, and that
(17:11):
it was just so simple. I feellike the kind of composition and
writing music is so often justcompletely absent from
curriculum. I mean, it's soclear, given the fact that they
write music, and that that, ofcourse, would be part of how we
express our experiences. But Ithink, you know, so often in
(17:33):
music, education, we, we chooseother paths. So I think that
that was really important. Iended up writing about this,
too, was that, you know,identity politics is often a big
part of the music that you make.
You know, it's interesting kindof how identity plays in to what
we talk about. And, you know,the way our positionality really
(17:53):
positions us to speak aboutparticular issues. So I think
that that was anotherinteresting thing. And, you
know, it was also bothinteresting to to see how people
took up the idea of communityand being with people through
music, and also that kind ofthird pedagogy noticing,
figuring out how, you know, howdo we mobilize what we do in
(18:17):
music class, to help peoplenotice the ideologies that shape
their existences and all of thatas possible. So I think sitting
with the data was supervaluable. Like, when people ask
me, like, I mean, I tell people,like I wrote that book five
times, I wrote it in itsentirety three full times and
(18:37):
then gutted each of the chaptersand additional two times on
their own. Because there werejust so many ways to kind of
think through what people weresaying. I think ultimately, the
arrangement of it made somepedagogical sense that there was
just really so much to consider.
The conversations were sofruitful and valuable. And I so
(19:03):
respect everything that folkshad to say. I mean, you know,
just introducing you to thosefour activist musicians as it
just barely scratches thesurface, you know, like there's,
there's so much more to thoseconversations and to what, you
know, what these folks bring totheir music and to the world.
And I, I'm in awe and respect.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (19:26):
So let's pivot to your curriculum text
that's recently come out thatyou're providing for free from
your website is kind of a what Iinterpret as a gift to the
profession. Maybe before I askedyou this question about students
lived experiences could youintroduce like, what grade
levels this curriculum text isfor and your intentions about
how this curriculum text mightbe used? Just to introduce
(19:50):
teachers to it?
Juliet Hess (19:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had originally kind ofenvisioned a K 12 text, but as I
was working through activities,I realized that it's more geared
towards middle school highschool. And the activities are
certainly adoptable to do atdifferent levels within the six
to 12 age range, but also for,you know, can certainly be
adopted to elementary as well,you know, just choosing
(20:14):
different things and doingactivities from different
angles. It's not meant to belike the sum of a year's
curriculum, but activities thatkind of integrate within your
own program, thinking throughwhere some of these things might
fit, in alignment with your owngoals for your classroom. And it
really does follow thepedagogies that I outlined in my
(20:38):
book. So the first section is ona pedagogy of community, which,
in the book, I talked about apedagogy of community being
composed of three components.
And the first component was, youknow, building communities. So
connecting people locally, sowithin your classroom, community
(20:58):
building community, as you know,together as an ensemble, I use
the word ensemble meaning like,from the French like meaning
together, so how we learn to betogether. And the second
component of that pedagogy wasconnecting to histories. So that
is things like Lise Vaugeois'musical life histories, and
thinking about how we connect tothe different traditions that
(21:21):
musics are from, and honoringthat within our classrooms. And
then the third component Ididn't really take up in the
curriculum, I still don't likewhat I called it, I called it
connecting to unfamiliar others.
And what I mean by that, or whatI meant by that, was that
sometimes doing a particularmusic allows you to connect to a
group that you haven't actuallyencountered in your life. So the
(21:42):
group behind the music is beyondyour personal experience. And I
think that there's a lot ofvalue in that. But I think that
was almost impossible to createfor a curriculum, because
there's so much out therealready that introduces
different musics. You know, Ididn't want to kind of pick a
few musics that might be, youknow, I think the music's that
(22:03):
you introduce into yourclassroom are really specific to
who you are in a lot of ways. SoI wrote a little bit of text on
it in the curriculum, but didn'tactually enact some lessons on
it. Then the second component ofthe curriculum is a pedagogy of
expression, which I actualizedas both honoring and sharing
lived experiences. So there areways to do both in the
(22:23):
curriculum. Then the third facetis a pedagogy of noticing. So I
have lots of possibilities forthe noticing ideology section,
which is the first facet of apedagogy of noticing. And then
the second facet is aboutrecognizing the lived conditions
that you're experiencing. Sothere are a couple of lessons
there. And then the third lessonis about moving to action. So
(22:43):
that's a little bit trickier, Ithink, in a school context,
particularly with some of thelegislation coming down the
pipes. So that's really thestructure for the curriculum is
based on that work in the book,drawing on ideas that I got from
activist musicians andactualizing them in some pretty
practical ways for theclassroom.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (23:05):
In her curriculum text, Hess writes
that quote, when educators honorthe lived realities of youth in
their classes, it potentiallybecomes possible for us to
assert these experiencesmusically. Activist musicians
perspectives on fostering aplace based education, offered
(23:26):
an education in which educatorsconsider the community context
and the needs of youth in theclassroom, in a manner that
honors their experiences. Thiskind of music classroom might
open space to honor livedexperiences, come to voice and
embrace our agency within.
(23:49):
And so one of the first things Inoticed was this theme of asking
students about their livedexperiences before starting to
impose teaching upon students.
And I see that in askingstudents to construct, whether
it's playlists, or constructinglife histories, or sharing
experiences through songwriting,that you're trying to be very
intentional about drawing theseout. So can you speak to what is
(24:09):
powerful and maybe evencountercultural about an act of
drawing out the experiences ofstudents?
Juliet Hess (24:18):
Yeah, I mean, so that's the pedagogy of
expression right? Like thehonoring piece before you ever
ask anyone to share you have tohonor first. And I'm really
hoping that it's notcountercultural at this point,
like honestly. So I think manyof these ideas resonate with
culturally relevant pedagogy andculturally responsive teaching
and culturally sustainingpedagogy these like these
(24:39):
pedagogy all recognize thatstudents bring to the classroom
a great deal. And then we buildon it from there rather than
assuming that students are likeempty vessels waiting to be
filled, which is like whatFreire calls the banking mode of
education, right, like depositknowledge into the students when
they already bring a plethora ofknowledge. So It's really like,
(25:01):
you know it because, you know,18 of the 20 activist musicians
thought that songwriting shouldbe a fundamental part of the
curriculum. And songwriting isoften rooted in your experience,
like you can't ask people toshare unless you've communicated
already that you absolutelyvalue what they bring.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (25:20):
So I also want to talk about the
particularly powerful sectionthat you've already introduced,
which is this section in yourcurriculum on noticing
ideologies. And what I think Igained from that, from looking
through the curriculum materialsis that students are being asked
to contextualize their story andexperience within larger
stories, and maybe offering thecritical reflection about the
(25:43):
problems of systems within whichthey're situated. So can you
talk about this section onnoticing ideologies?
Juliet Hess (25:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
So this pedagogy of noticing isrooted in a culture of
questioning. And as I justmentioned, I actualized that in
three phases, so the first phaseis that youth notice and
identify the ideology shapingall of their encounters. And
second, they recognize the livedconditions of both themselves
and others in the class. Andthen third is moving to actions.
(26:11):
So this section really focuseson that first phase, the
noticing ideologies piece. So Ihave a number of lessons in the
section that lead students torecognize ideologies, systems
and structures that shape theirlives. Like I, I tried to figure
out ways to scaffold this kindof critical thinking. So I can
talk those through a little bit.
(26:32):
So it starts with looking atmedia representation, and that's
analyzing music videos. So forme, this is something I use
regularly in my teaching, likemusic videos are an easy way
into representation. So thisactivity just encourages youth
to kind of think through howdifferent identities are
represented in music videos. Andthen also whether or not there
(26:53):
are any stereotypes at play. Soit's just kind of a, a way in
through music, of thinking aboutrepresentation and the way that
different identities arecommunicated. Then from there,
drawing on this is the work ofMagali Meagher, and she directed
the Toronto Girls Rock Camp, oneof the activities that she had
going was an opportunity for thegirls who attended the camp, and
(27:18):
non binary students to, toanalyze media messages about
body image, it was just anopportunity to kind of help the
campers think critically aboutmedia messages they received
about their bodies, andobviously at a crucial time
during those teenage years. Sothat was kind of the second
piece of that noticingideologies. And again, it's kind
of targeting media messages. Andthen we turn to music and think
(27:42):
about how music communicates amessage. It's an opportunity to
kind of consider both music andlyrics and to think about the
kinds of messages that musicsends. So that's a piece of this
section. And then the nextactivity is about noticing the
strategic nature of music. Sothat allows students to consider
times where music might bedangerous or serve fascism, as
(28:05):
well as when it might actuallydisrupt the status quo. So
noticing when music might beused as propaganda, or to
manipulate emotions is actuallyreally important to being able
to resist it and music getsmobilized that way, all the
time. From there, I introducethe ethics of song project, and
this is from the Center forEthics at the University of
(28:25):
Toronto. It's a project calledthe ethics of song. And it's a
series of YouTube videos thatvarious scholars have kind of
chosen a song to discuss inorder to explore the ethical
dimensions of it. So this is anintroduction to that project,
and an opportunity to view someof the discussions and also to
create their own videos for achosen song about, you know, a
(28:46):
song that they that is importantto them in their life, and to
kind of explore the ethicalunder underpinnings of it. And
then the final activity in thissection is about creating a
podcast on the power of music.
So that's kind of doing aculminating activity. So it's an
opportunity for students toreally kind of explicate their
knowledge of the power of music,having done all these other
things, and how it can be usedin different ways. So I think
(29:08):
all of these activities lead toa practice of noticing
ideologies within musicspecifically, but I think it
also extends to the world.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (29:19):
Drawing on Giroux and Grioux's culture
of questioning. Hess encouragescurricula that support youth and
exploring the conditions shapinglives. These explorations might
build courageous conversationsand movements toward action.
Whether studying how musicreinforces messages of body
image, or the harmful ends towhich music is used to amplify
(29:43):
violence, xenophobia, racism,sexism, domination and
supremacy. These studies set thestage for a courageousness that
challenges harm. When we openethical dilemmas, we might move
deeper into musical andpedagogical decisions that
challenge reverse and repairviolence and harm. I
(30:07):
particularly encourage teachersto look at Hess' ethics of songs
projects in her curriculum, andthe University of Toronto Center
for Ethics YouTube series. Eachvideo looks at the background
behind songs and the ethicaldimensions and complexities
embedded within song. links andvideos are provided on our
(30:28):
website.
I wondered if you mightintroduce our listeners to maybe
one lesson plan and kind ofpaint a picture of that lesson
plan that would help teachersfurther conceptualize about what
a particular lesson within thisbook would look like.
Juliet Hess (30:45):
So I had trouble choosing. But I think I want to
share about the soniccartography lesson. So I was
really inspired here by JohnWargo's work. So Wargo
identifies Sonic cartography, ashe says, the practice of mapping
narrative through sound. And inhis research, he was working
(31:05):
with Andy who is an LGBTQ youth.
And in this work, she maps herdaily life through sound. And it
provides this powerful kind ofSonic representation of both the
misogyny and the homophobia thatshe experiences on a daily
basis. So this activity likeprovides youth with the
opportunity to map their dailylife sonically, in ways that
(31:26):
reveal what they experienceregularly. So it's really it's a
process of having students kindof identify the main places of
their lives, and record thesounds in these places to create
a soundscape of their days. Andthen they'll have an opportunity
to reflect in groups. So it'snot necessarily going to kind of
have the outcome that it did inWargo's research where it
(31:47):
expressed. misogyny andhomophobia, that's not
necessarily what's going to comeout in these, you know,
reflections, but I think beingable to kind of reflect in this
is, you know, reminiscent ofKelly Bylica's work on
soundscape is, you know, anopportunity to kind of think
about, what are the differentspaces that you're in? How do
they differ between students,and you know, it's an
(32:10):
opportunity as well for, youknow, conversations about hard
topics, like privilege and howthat manifests in the
soundscapes of our lives aswell. So I think, you know, it
presents some really interestingopportunities for conversations,
particularly if soundscapesreveal some challenges that are
regularly experienced. So I'mpretty excited about that
(32:33):
lesson, and what the potentialis. So, you know, I thought I'd
pick that one to share.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (32:50):
Yeah, is there anything that I haven't
asked you that you wish I wouldask you about this particular
text that's come out?
Juliet Hess (32:59):
That's a great question. Um, I mean, I, I feel
like I'm really excited aboutit, because I had the
opportunity, you know, posttenure, I didn't feel like I
needed to pursue a publicationfor this. And that, to have the
opportunity to kind of spend twoyears creating this document,
(33:20):
and to just be able to give itaway. I mean, I feel like
that's, that's tenure privilege,you know, I have a permanent
job. And I don't need to chasethings down. And it's an
opportunity to create content ina way that hopefully will be
useful to practitioners. And theother piece of this is when I
was in conversation with theseactivist musicians, I always
(33:43):
asked about researchreciprocity, like, you know,
thank you for participating andgiving me something but what can
I do in return, and 12 of the 20people who I interviewed were
teaching in some capacity,because it's really hard to kind
of be a musician and not, andnot teach in some way. You know,
(34:04):
most musicians do teach in somecapacity. You know, what any,
any number of people said to mewas that we would really like
some curriculum. And so this isvery much a response to trying
to create content for people whohave given me so much, and to,
to be able to kind of supporttheir work in schools as they're
(34:27):
working with youth. Like, I hopethis is a document that is
useful to the folks who havereally shaped it. And as well as
you know, hopefully other musicteachers as well. You know, I
want this to be a livingdocument, something that gets
taken up and used and changedand created originally, every
(34:49):
time because of the group of youstudents that people have in
front of them, like we recreatewhat we do, and cater it to
particular groups. So I think,you know, that was really the
impetus for this work and I'mhappy to see it through to
fruition and be able to get itup online
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (35:13):
Hess closes her book with a powerful
quote, one that I read to youhere, quote, at this juncture in
time, music education mustmatter, it must honor the
humanity in all, and resistinjustice loudly and musically.
The life's work of theseactivist musicians, provides a
(35:33):
powerful model for musiceducation, a model that
celebrates community, honors,lived experiences, provides
musical means to share them, andencourages a praxis of noticing
and resisting injustices acrossmultiple identities. Listening
to their voices helps ourdiscipline imagine a different
(35:55):
possible future. A collectiveenvisioning of all that music
education can do and be. Hess'work can be found at our
website, Julia L. hess.com,where her curriculum resource is
offered for free. Theaccompanying text Music
education for social change.
constructing an activist musiceducation can be purchased from
(36:17):
Routledge press, my deepestgratitude to Juliet Hess, as
well as the 20 activistmusicians found in her text.
This book, and the voices withinhave challenged, changed, and
accompanied me on journeys tonotice, name and come to voice.
Links to Hess' website, videosof mentioned musicians and
(36:41):
resources, and additionalresources are found on our
website.
This is the music andpeacebuilding podcast hosted by
Kevin Shorner-Johnson. AtElizabethtown College, we host a
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
Thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(37:06):
at music peace building.com
We are working alongside a lot of different
people who are trying to, to,you know, create an anti racist
pedagogy that is intersectionaland embracing across identities
and there are so many misstepsthat are possible in this work
and you know what works for oneperson doesn't necessarily work
for another person. So we reallyneed to kind of be in that space
(00:23):
of knowing that we haven'tpossibly got it right.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:26):
You're listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at music peacebuildingdot com, exploring intersections
of peacebuilding, sacredness,community, creativity and
imagination through research andstory. Juliet Hess is an
associate professor of musiceducation at Michigan State
(00:48):
University, having previouslytaught elementary and middle
school music in Toronto. Herbook, music education for social
change. constructing an activistmusic education explores the
intersection of activism,critical pedagogy, and music
education. Her second book,trauma and resilience in music
education haunted melodies is anedited volume co edited with
(01:11):
Deborah Bradley. Juliettereceived her PhD in sociology of
education from the OntarioInstitute for Studies in
Education at the University ofToronto. Her research interests
include anti oppression,education, trauma informed
pedagogy, activism and music andmusic, education, music
education for social justice,disability and mad studies, and
(01:35):
the question of ethics in worldmusic study. This conversation
opened in response to herrecently released resource,
constructing an activist musiceducation, a six through 12
curriculum, and the accompanyingtext published by Routledge
press, her curriculum text wasfunded by a generous grant from
(01:56):
Agrigento.
So I'll start with the firstquestion. So I really enjoyed
reading your book. And very muchnotice the way that it's
grounded in Freirean criticalpedagogy, which you really open
up at the beginning of the book.
So for listeners who are not asfamiliar with Freirean critical
pedagogy, will you introduce usto this call to noticing naming
and coming to voice that youintroduce in this book?
Juliet Hess (02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think, you know, noticingis rooted in noticing the
conditions that shape our lives.
Freire describe this process islike conscientization, or a
coming to consciousness. So tojust really recognize the
ideologies that circulate in thethings that kind of shape the
(02:41):
conditions that you experience,and Freire describes this
process as naming the world. Sohis early work on literacy,
describes the process ofliteracy as what he called
reading the word of the world.
His literacy work explicitlytied literacy practices to the
world surrounding the students.
And he didn't even think ofstudents necessarily as students
(03:03):
in that kind of traditionalhierarchical power situation.
But he, he referred to theteacher, as a teacher/student,
as someone who also learns fromstudents and students, as
students/teachers, as in theircapacity to teach the teacher.
So then the coming to voicepiece, it involves students
asserting their perspectivesabout the conditions that shape
(03:25):
their lives. But it also is justan expression of asserting your
views into the world aboutissues that are important to
them. So it's learning to kindof develop that ability to
assert yourself. So I write inthe book about developing a
practice of critique within aculture of questioning. And
that, for me, is one of the keygoals of education. And it's not
indoctrination as the anticritical race theory folks seem
(03:48):
to fear. But it's, you know,teaching critical thinking in a
way that students can bediscerning and formulate views
for themselves, which I thinkis, you know, at the forefront
of like the things that we needto be doing right now.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (04:03):
Then, at the same time, that you're
embracing these words, likeliberation, you're very much
also offering a warning againstthe very dogmatic certainty of
implementation. So will youspeak to why an awareness of
problems of dogmatic certaintyare really important when you're
constructing an activist musiceducation?
Juliet Hess (04:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's such a good question. Imean, I think, at the moment
that we as educators feel likewe have something figured out is
that that's the exact momentthat we slip. So pedagogy is
relational. So there's nocertainty the ground is always
shifting and it should shift. Sodogmatic pedagogy, like dogmatic
activism is for me when peopleget hurt. So there's no room in
(04:46):
that for nuance necessarily. Andit can miss really complex
intersections of identity. Itdoesn't it doesn't see gray
area. So as Foucault writes, andI use this to start one of my
chapters. he writes, My point isnot that everything is bad, but
that everything is dangerous,which is not exactly the same as
bad. If everything is dangerous,then we always have something to
(05:07):
do. So implementing a pedagogyrooted in activism is absolutely
dangerous, and in more ways thanone. So at the most basic of
levels, the legislation that weare seeing being implemented
around the country, opposingcritical race theory, or so
called divisive concepts, suchas whiteness and white
privilege, or queerness, meansthat it's quite literally
(05:30):
dangerous to teach from anactivist frame. So that's a real
and present danger. The dangerthat I write about in the book,
however, is more from a criticalperspective, like how things can
go wrong based on what I'mproposing. So I put forward kind
of three pedagogies in the book,a pedagogy of community and a
pedagogy of expression, and apedagogy of noticing, and each
of them refracts in veryparticular ways. You know, I
(05:51):
want to look at all of the waysthat those things can also go
wrong when we implement them.
Because keeping in mind, thingsthat don't work is also really
important. So, for example, in apedagogy of community, like how
the wish to connect to groupsbeyond your own personal
experience could maybe lead toexoticism. So that's not a very
(06:13):
helpful outcome. But on anothernote, I think the times when we
slip also provide opportunitiesfor mending. So I think there's
a strong tendency that isparticularly communicated to
young teachers, that weshouldn't own it when we mess up
in the classroom, but we shouldabsolutely own it, and do the
work necessary to repair anydamage. I mean, of course, it's
(06:36):
better if damage does not occur,but doing the work to repair any
missteps, I think goes a longway to mending relationships.
And I think, you know, embracinguncertainty means that you're
going to be doing some mending.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (06:51):
Hess notes the power of dreaming
within Freirean pedagogy. Shestates quote, when we imagine a
possible future that movesbeyond the mechanical repetition
of the present, something morebecomes possible in a refusal of
automatic reinscription. Freirecenters the agency inherent and
(07:11):
dreaming, the ability to makechange and create a different
possible future. He Grounds thisnotion firmly in reality, rather
than pointing naively to somekind of causal relationship
between dreaming and change, henotes that without dreaming,
change remains impossible. Thisdreaming then does not result in
(07:33):
top down imposition upon others.
But a bottom up RelationalApproach, rooted in love, hope,
care, and optimism. Instead ofworking from a deficit
perspective, Hess notes that anethic of quote, uncertainty may
help educators enact criticaleducation in a way that honors
the full humanity of students.
(07:59):
Okay, so as we move to yournewest text, you you grounded in
the narrative of the 20 activistmusicians who and there's a
quote from you hold a range ofdifferent identities in terms of
gender, race, class, sexualorientation, immigration, age,
geography, religion,spirituality and disability. So
I want to invite you if you wantto introduce us to some of these
(08:22):
people's stories that you bringinto the book that really ground
your narrative.
Juliet Hess (08:27):
So I wanted to highlight the work of all of the
activist musicians because Ithink they're incredible, but I
realized that that's impossible.
So I thought I would highlight afew folks whose ideas really
heavily influenced thecurriculum. Jason Hwang was a he
was 58 when I interviewed him,and this was back in 2014. He
describes himself as anindependent artist, violinist
(08:49):
and composer. He's ChineseAmerican, originally from
Illinois and living in Jersey.
And Jason wrote and performedjazz new... and new and world
music and his music fuse, fuseswestern and eastern sounds, and
draws really innovatively uponChinese traditional instruments.
(09:10):
He worked regularly in schoolsas a teaching artist when I
interviewed him. And one of thethings that he did when he was
teaching in Harlem, which reallystruck me was he created chants
for the young students that hewas working with. And these
chants like really served asaffirmations. So affirming, for
example, like that many of thestudents were multilingual. So
(09:30):
he thought it would just be agood idea if that affirmation
was running through their headsas they were kind of going
throughout their day. So as aresult of his work, creating
affirming chants is part of thecurriculum, and other elements
of Jason's work with youngpeople are also in the
curriculum, and I really wasgrateful for the things that he
put forward when we got to be inconversation.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (09:51):
Jason Hwang notes that his
compositions or narrativelandscapes through which Sonic
beings embark uponextemporaneous, transformational
journeys. In the liner notes tohis provocative album, The Human
Rights trio. Hwang writes that,quote, The psychic intensity
both sacred and sacrificial,provokes a heightened awareness
(10:15):
that unifies listeners andmusicians within a spiritual
entrainment. As we hearourselves within music, we
become music, which is no longera performance, but an
affirmation of justice, andcelebration of life.
Juliet Hess (10:33):
The second person who I want to introduce is Lise
Vaugeois. She was also 58 When Iinterviewed her and is a
musician, scholar, composer,educator, and activist, and
she's from Thunder Bay, Ontario.
And she self identifies as awhite Canadian with Italian and
French heritage and her doctoralwork in music education, which
is beautiful work focused oncolonization and indigeneity. In
Canada and western classicalmusic's complicity in colonial
(10:56):
violence. It's really importantwork. So some time ago, she
created a tool called musicallife histories. And musical life
histories is a series ofquestions that allow someone to
kind of excavate like thehistories of different musics.
So the questions are extremelycritical. And they encourage us
to think about both presencesand absences and music. So the
(11:18):
absences for me is really key.
So asking, for example, whoengages in this music and who
does not? So I think, you know,asking the series of questions
that she put forward in that2009 article, really help us to
think about where musicalpractices come from, and who
(11:39):
participates and who doesn't,and what kinds of spaces they're
in. And some of the powerdynamics that are embedded
really, you know, it really getsit power when you go through the
series of questions. So I thinkthey really help us get to the
heart of how different musicsare practiced. And that's also
included in the curriculum andin the book as well, thanks to
(12:00):
Lise allowing me to do that.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (12:03):
In my heavily highlighted copy of
Hess' book, one of my favoritesections is the reprint of Lise
Vaugeois' was guiding questions.
Vaugeois asks about performanceregulations, who is allowed in
and who is kept out who profitsand how, and encourages a
critical examination of lyrics.
(12:23):
She asks, are lyrics significantto this music? What languages
are used? Why these languagesand not others? What are the
lyrics about? How are genderrace and classes represented?
Why are genders races classespresent or absent? In
(12:44):
questioning what is andwonderings about what could be,
we might embark on journeys tolower barriers to full
belonging.
Juliet Hess (12:54):
The third activist musician that I want to
introduce you to is T Vu, TeresaVu. She was 32 when I
interviewed her and isVietnamese American, and she
grew up on the West Coast. She'sa computer programmer and a hip
hop artist living in New YorkCity and her group magnetic
north created the album HomeWord, which explores issues of
(13:15):
Asian American identity in the21st century. So T Vu saw music
as a way to educate listeners onpolitical issues, and also
organized benefit concerts toraise awareness and funds for
issues affecting Asian Americanpopulations in particular, and
they've got a concert upcomingsoon in New York City. So I just
(13:36):
like so many of T Vu's ideas,made it into the curriculum. So
she talks about the way that shedemystified music for her
younger cosmic cousins by likeshowing them the kind of four
chord song like, you know, theidea that many pop songs use the
same four chord structure. Andonce you kind of break away that
mystery, it allows you to writemusic in a way that you maybe
(13:57):
were intimidated to do sobefore. She also talks about how
covers that change the meaningof the original song are really
interesting to her. And alsoabout the way mashups can put
two contradictory songs inconversation. So these ideas are
all a part of the curriculum. Ithought so much of what she said
was so explicitly pedagogical,and I really wanted to draw on
(14:18):
that. So one of the things shesaid in the interview, and I
think this is just reallyinteresting for us to think
about, she said, sometimes it'slike Mary Poppins saying
medicine needs sugar. Sometimemessages need these flowing,
beautiful instrumentals just toget through to you. It can be a
lot to take in, but music can bethat kind of sugar to just open
your mind. And I love that. Andit also really makes me think
(14:42):
that perhaps music is thevehicle to communicate some of
these hard truths to people.
The last activist musician who Iwant to introduce you to is
Taiyo Na, he was 31 when Iinterviewed him and he's a Hip
Hop artist in New York City. Hedescribes himself as an Asian
(15:03):
American male, he centeredcommunity in his work and
explored identity, in his musicand his education focused on
African and Asian PacificAmerican Studies, and
subsequently inclusiveeducation. So at the time of the
study, Taiyo was performingregularly and also taught high
school English. So I just soappreciated how Taiyo talks
(15:24):
about community. So when he wastalking about creating
community, musically, he sharedand this is a quote from him,
jamming vibing and improvisingwith a group of people musically
theatrically, that's thepractice of community, you have
to listen to each other. Andmake sure that people have their
solo space or lecturing space,but at the same time, fall back
and listen to places whereeverybody can participate. So
(15:47):
that idea was just fundamentalto the curriculum, and many of
the community based lessonsreally orient around that idea.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (15:54):
The inspirations of T Vu and Taiyo
Na, can be found in the magneticnorth band, and the inspirations
of the home word album. So manyof these songs explore the
cartography of belonging,challenging the racism and hate
leveled against Asian Americancommunities, noting long
(16:15):
histories of Asian Americancommunities and villainization,
this album is a call to theabolition of suffering, and the
embrace of belonging, a home,that is a light within.
I'm just curious, after havingread that book, I'm sure that
you sat with those voices for along time. And everything that
(16:37):
there was to teach you in that.
How has your approach topreparing and developing music
teachers changed as a result ofsitting with these voices for
such a long time?
Juliet Hess (16:49):
I mean, I think, you know, one of the key things
that came out that was, I mean,maybe not surprising, given who
I interviewed, but maybeunexpected given what we
typically do in music educationwas that when, when it came to
discussing pedagogy, 18 of the20 people that I interviewed,
were like, songwriting needs tobe part of curriculum, and that
(17:11):
it was just so simple. I feellike the kind of composition and
writing music is so often justcompletely absent from
curriculum. I mean, it's soclear, given the fact that they
write music, and that that, ofcourse, would be part of how we
express our experiences. But Ithink, you know, so often in
(17:33):
music, education, we, we chooseother paths. So I think that
that was really important. Iended up writing about this,
too, was that, you know,identity politics is often a big
part of the music that you make.
You know, it's interesting kindof how identity plays in to what
we talk about. And, you know,the way our positionality really
(17:53):
positions us to speak aboutparticular issues. So I think
that that was anotherinteresting thing. And, you
know, it was also bothinteresting to to see how people
took up the idea of communityand being with people through
music, and also that kind ofthird pedagogy noticing,
figuring out how, you know, howdo we mobilize what we do in
(18:17):
music class, to help peoplenotice the ideologies that shape
their existences and all of thatas possible. So I think sitting
with the data was supervaluable. Like, when people ask
me, like, I mean, I tell people,like I wrote that book five
times, I wrote it in itsentirety three full times and
(18:37):
then gutted each of the chaptersand additional two times on
their own. Because there werejust so many ways to kind of
think through what people weresaying. I think ultimately, the
arrangement of it made somepedagogical sense that there was
just really so much to consider.
The conversations were sofruitful and valuable. And I so
(19:03):
respect everything that folkshad to say. I mean, you know,
just introducing you to thosefour activist musicians as it
just barely scratches thesurface, you know, like there's,
there's so much more to thoseconversations and to what, you
know, what these folks bring totheir music and to the world.
And I, I'm in awe and respect.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (19:26):
So let's pivot to your curriculum text
that's recently come out thatyou're providing for free from
your website is kind of a what Iinterpret as a gift to the
profession. Maybe before I askedyou this question about students
lived experiences could youintroduce like, what grade
levels this curriculum text isfor and your intentions about
how this curriculum text mightbe used? Just to introduce
(19:50):
teachers to it?
Juliet Hess (19:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had originally kind ofenvisioned a K 12 text, but as I
was working through activities,I realized that it's more geared
towards middle school highschool. And the activities are
certainly adoptable to do atdifferent levels within the six
to 12 age range, but also for,you know, can certainly be
adopted to elementary as well,you know, just choosing
(20:14):
different things and doingactivities from different
angles. It's not meant to belike the sum of a year's
curriculum, but activities thatkind of integrate within your
own program, thinking throughwhere some of these things might
fit, in alignment with your owngoals for your classroom. And it
really does follow thepedagogies that I outlined in my
(20:38):
book. So the first section is ona pedagogy of community, which,
in the book, I talked about apedagogy of community being
composed of three components.
And the first component was, youknow, building communities. So
connecting people locally, sowithin your classroom, community
(20:58):
building community, as you know,together as an ensemble, I use
the word ensemble meaning like,from the French like meaning
together, so how we learn to betogether. And the second
component of that pedagogy wasconnecting to histories. So that
is things like Lise Vaugeois'musical life histories, and
thinking about how we connect tothe different traditions that
(21:21):
musics are from, and honoringthat within our classrooms. And
then the third component Ididn't really take up in the
curriculum, I still don't likewhat I called it, I called it
connecting to unfamiliar others.
And what I mean by that, or whatI meant by that, was that
sometimes doing a particularmusic allows you to connect to a
group that you haven't actuallyencountered in your life. So the
(21:42):
group behind the music is beyondyour personal experience. And I
think that there's a lot ofvalue in that. But I think that
was almost impossible to createfor a curriculum, because
there's so much out therealready that introduces
different musics. You know, Ididn't want to kind of pick a
few musics that might be, youknow, I think the music's that
(22:03):
you introduce into yourclassroom are really specific to
who you are in a lot of ways. SoI wrote a little bit of text on
it in the curriculum, but didn'tactually enact some lessons on
it. Then the second component ofthe curriculum is a pedagogy of
expression, which I actualizedas both honoring and sharing
lived experiences. So there areways to do both in the
(22:23):
curriculum. Then the third facetis a pedagogy of noticing. So I
have lots of possibilities forthe noticing ideology section,
which is the first facet of apedagogy of noticing. And then
the second facet is aboutrecognizing the lived conditions
that you're experiencing. Sothere are a couple of lessons
there. And then the third lessonis about moving to action. So
(22:43):
that's a little bit trickier, Ithink, in a school context,
particularly with some of thelegislation coming down the
pipes. So that's really thestructure for the curriculum is
based on that work in the book,drawing on ideas that I got from
activist musicians andactualizing them in some pretty
practical ways for theclassroom.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (23:05):
In her curriculum text, Hess writes
that quote, when educators honorthe lived realities of youth in
their classes, it potentiallybecomes possible for us to
assert these experiencesmusically. Activist musicians
perspectives on fostering aplace based education, offered
(23:26):
an education in which educatorsconsider the community context
and the needs of youth in theclassroom, in a manner that
honors their experiences. Thiskind of music classroom might
open space to honor livedexperiences, come to voice and
embrace our agency within.
(23:49):
And so one of the first things Inoticed was this theme of asking
students about their livedexperiences before starting to
impose teaching upon students.
And I see that in askingstudents to construct, whether
it's playlists, or constructinglife histories, or sharing
experiences through songwriting,that you're trying to be very
intentional about drawing theseout. So can you speak to what is
(24:09):
powerful and maybe evencountercultural about an act of
drawing out the experiences ofstudents?
Juliet Hess (24:18):
Yeah, I mean, so that's the pedagogy of
expression right? Like thehonoring piece before you ever
ask anyone to share you have tohonor first. And I'm really
hoping that it's notcountercultural at this point,
like honestly. So I think manyof these ideas resonate with
culturally relevant pedagogy andculturally responsive teaching
and culturally sustainingpedagogy these like these
(24:39):
pedagogy all recognize thatstudents bring to the classroom
a great deal. And then we buildon it from there rather than
assuming that students are likeempty vessels waiting to be
filled, which is like whatFreire calls the banking mode of
education, right, like depositknowledge into the students when
they already bring a plethora ofknowledge. So It's really like,
(25:01):
you know it because, you know,18 of the 20 activist musicians
thought that songwriting shouldbe a fundamental part of the
curriculum. And songwriting isoften rooted in your experience,
like you can't ask people toshare unless you've communicated
already that you absolutelyvalue what they bring.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (25:20):
So I also want to talk about the
particularly powerful sectionthat you've already introduced,
which is this section in yourcurriculum on noticing
ideologies. And what I think Igained from that, from looking
through the curriculum materialsis that students are being asked
to contextualize their story andexperience within larger
stories, and maybe offering thecritical reflection about the
(25:43):
problems of systems within whichthey're situated. So can you
talk about this section onnoticing ideologies?
Juliet Hess (25:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
So this pedagogy of noticing isrooted in a culture of
questioning. And as I justmentioned, I actualized that in
three phases, so the first phaseis that youth notice and
identify the ideology shapingall of their encounters. And
second, they recognize the livedconditions of both themselves
and others in the class. Andthen third is moving to actions.
(26:11):
So this section really focuseson that first phase, the
noticing ideologies piece. So Ihave a number of lessons in the
section that lead students torecognize ideologies, systems
and structures that shape theirlives. Like I, I tried to figure
out ways to scaffold this kindof critical thinking. So I can
talk those through a little bit.
(26:32):
So it starts with looking atmedia representation, and that's
analyzing music videos. So forme, this is something I use
regularly in my teaching, likemusic videos are an easy way
into representation. So thisactivity just encourages youth
to kind of think through howdifferent identities are
represented in music videos. Andthen also whether or not there
(26:53):
are any stereotypes at play. Soit's just kind of a, a way in
through music, of thinking aboutrepresentation and the way that
different identities arecommunicated. Then from there,
drawing on this is the work ofMagali Meagher, and she directed
the Toronto Girls Rock Camp, oneof the activities that she had
going was an opportunity for thegirls who attended the camp, and
(27:18):
non binary students to, toanalyze media messages about
body image, it was just anopportunity to kind of help the
campers think critically aboutmedia messages they received
about their bodies, andobviously at a crucial time
during those teenage years. Sothat was kind of the second
piece of that noticingideologies. And again, it's kind
of targeting media messages. Andthen we turn to music and think
(27:42):
about how music communicates amessage. It's an opportunity to
kind of consider both music andlyrics and to think about the
kinds of messages that musicsends. So that's a piece of this
section. And then the nextactivity is about noticing the
strategic nature of music. Sothat allows students to consider
times where music might bedangerous or serve fascism, as
(28:05):
well as when it might actuallydisrupt the status quo. So
noticing when music might beused as propaganda, or to
manipulate emotions is actuallyreally important to being able
to resist it and music getsmobilized that way, all the
time. From there, I introducethe ethics of song project, and
this is from the Center forEthics at the University of
(28:25):
Toronto. It's a project calledthe ethics of song. And it's a
series of YouTube videos thatvarious scholars have kind of
chosen a song to discuss inorder to explore the ethical
dimensions of it. So this is anintroduction to that project,
and an opportunity to view someof the discussions and also to
create their own videos for achosen song about, you know, a
(28:46):
song that they that is importantto them in their life, and to
kind of explore the ethicalunder underpinnings of it. And
then the final activity in thissection is about creating a
podcast on the power of music.
So that's kind of doing aculminating activity. So it's an
opportunity for students toreally kind of explicate their
knowledge of the power of music,having done all these other
things, and how it can be usedin different ways. So I think
(29:08):
all of these activities lead toa practice of noticing
ideologies within musicspecifically, but I think it
also extends to the world.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (29:19):
Drawing on Giroux and Grioux's culture
of questioning. Hess encouragescurricula that support youth and
exploring the conditions shapinglives. These explorations might
build courageous conversationsand movements toward action.
Whether studying how musicreinforces messages of body
image, or the harmful ends towhich music is used to amplify
(29:43):
violence, xenophobia, racism,sexism, domination and
supremacy. These studies set thestage for a courageousness that
challenges harm. When we openethical dilemmas, we might move
deeper into musical andpedagogical decisions that
challenge reverse and repairviolence and harm. I
(30:07):
particularly encourage teachersto look at Hess' ethics of songs
projects in her curriculum, andthe University of Toronto Center
for Ethics YouTube series. Eachvideo looks at the background
behind songs and the ethicaldimensions and complexities
embedded within song. links andvideos are provided on our
(30:28):
website.
I wondered if you mightintroduce our listeners to maybe
one lesson plan and kind ofpaint a picture of that lesson
plan that would help teachersfurther conceptualize about what
a particular lesson within thisbook would look like.
Juliet Hess (30:45):
So I had trouble choosing. But I think I want to
share about the soniccartography lesson. So I was
really inspired here by JohnWargo's work. So Wargo
identifies Sonic cartography, ashe says, the practice of mapping
narrative through sound. And inhis research, he was working
(31:05):
with Andy who is an LGBTQ youth.
And in this work, she maps herdaily life through sound. And it
provides this powerful kind ofSonic representation of both the
misogyny and the homophobia thatshe experiences on a daily
basis. So this activity likeprovides youth with the
opportunity to map their dailylife sonically, in ways that
(31:26):
reveal what they experienceregularly. So it's really it's a
process of having students kindof identify the main places of
their lives, and record thesounds in these places to create
a soundscape of their days. Andthen they'll have an opportunity
to reflect in groups. So it'snot necessarily going to kind of
have the outcome that it did inWargo's research where it
(31:47):
expressed. misogyny andhomophobia, that's not
necessarily what's going to comeout in these, you know,
reflections, but I think beingable to kind of reflect in this
is, you know, reminiscent ofKelly Bylica's work on
soundscape is, you know, anopportunity to kind of think
about, what are the differentspaces that you're in? How do
they differ between students,and you know, it's an
(32:10):
opportunity as well for, youknow, conversations about hard
topics, like privilege and howthat manifests in the
soundscapes of our lives aswell. So I think, you know, it
presents some really interestingopportunities for conversations,
particularly if soundscapesreveal some challenges that are
regularly experienced. So I'mpretty excited about that
(32:33):
lesson, and what the potentialis. So, you know, I thought I'd
pick that one to share.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (32:50):
Yeah, is there anything that I haven't
asked you that you wish I wouldask you about this particular
text that's come out?
Juliet Hess (32:59):
That's a great question. Um, I mean, I, I feel
like I'm really excited aboutit, because I had the
opportunity, you know, posttenure, I didn't feel like I
needed to pursue a publicationfor this. And that, to have the
opportunity to kind of spend twoyears creating this document,
(33:20):
and to just be able to give itaway. I mean, I feel like
that's, that's tenure privilege,you know, I have a permanent
job. And I don't need to chasethings down. And it's an
opportunity to create content ina way that hopefully will be
useful to practitioners. And theother piece of this is when I
was in conversation with theseactivist musicians, I always
(33:43):
asked about researchreciprocity, like, you know,
thank you for participating andgiving me something but what can
I do in return, and 12 of the 20people who I interviewed were
teaching in some capacity,because it's really hard to kind
of be a musician and not, andnot teach in some way. You know,
(34:04):
most musicians do teach in somecapacity. You know, what any,
any number of people said to mewas that we would really like
some curriculum. And so this isvery much a response to trying
to create content for people whohave given me so much, and to,
to be able to kind of supporttheir work in schools as they're
(34:27):
working with youth. Like, I hopethis is a document that is
useful to the folks who havereally shaped it. And as well as
you know, hopefully other musicteachers as well. You know, I
want this to be a livingdocument, something that gets
taken up and used and changedand created originally, every
(34:49):
time because of the group of youstudents that people have in
front of them, like we recreatewhat we do, and cater it to
particular groups. So I think,you know, that was really the
impetus for this work and I'mhappy to see it through to
fruition and be able to get itup online
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (35:13):
Hess closes her book with a powerful
quote, one that I read to youhere, quote, at this juncture in
time, music education mustmatter, it must honor the
humanity in all, and resistinjustice loudly and musically.
The life's work of theseactivist musicians, provides a
(35:33):
powerful model for musiceducation, a model that
celebrates community, honors,lived experiences, provides
musical means to share them, andencourages a praxis of noticing
and resisting injustices acrossmultiple identities. Listening
to their voices helps ourdiscipline imagine a different
(35:55):
possible future. A collectiveenvisioning of all that music
education can do and be. Hess'work can be found at our
website, Julia L. hess.com,where her curriculum resource is
offered for free. Theaccompanying text Music
education for social change.
constructing an activist musiceducation can be purchased from
(36:17):
Routledge press, my deepestgratitude to Juliet Hess, as
well as the 20 activistmusicians found in her text.
This book, and the voices withinhave challenged, changed, and
accompanied me on journeys tonotice, name and come to voice.
Links to Hess' website, videosof mentioned musicians and
(36:41):
resources, and additionalresources are found on our
website.
This is the music andpeacebuilding podcast hosted by
Kevin Shorner-Johnson. AtElizabethtown College, we host a
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
Thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(37:06):
at music peace building.com
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