January 20, 2024 • 50 mins
This interview with Dr. Mica Estrada explores her work in researching belonging, social identity, and kindness. Beginning with an exploration of impostor phenomena, we first explore stories about Donna Hicks’s direct experience at being affirmed and welcomed. Returning to Estrada’s research, we examine the impact of Dr. Kellman and the development of a social integration model of self-efficacy, identity, and values. This model has been used to explore the experiences of minoritized students in STEM fields and community responses to climate change. The episode closes with examinations of belonging and stereotype threat and the power of kindness and accompaniment as dignity-affirming practices.
The Music & Peacebuilding Podcast is hosted by Kevin Shorner-Johnson at Elizabethtown College. Join our professional development network at www.musicpeacebuilding.com - thinking deeply we reclaim space for connection and care.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica Estrada (00:00):
I know you can talk about differences without
violating people's dignity. Youcan be very angry at a person
without violating someone'sdignity. And I think same, the
same thing is kindness, right?
We can treat people in a kindway. Even if we're not agreeing
with them. We're always gonnahave differences with each
other. This is part of the humancondition. That how we deal with
our communications when we havethose differences is central to
(00:23):
what kind of community andplanet we're going to have.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:30):
You are listening to season four of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a podcast season focused on
multifaceted textures ofbelonging. Our podcast explores
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imaginationthrough research and story.
Dr. Mica Estrada received herPhD in Social Psychology from
(00:53):
Harvard University. She servesat the University of California,
San Francisco as the AssociateDean of diversity, inclusion and
equity for the School ofNursing. She is also a professor
in the Department of Social andBehavioral Sciences at the
Institute for Health and Ageing.
Her research program focuses onsocial influence, including the
study of identity values,forgiveness, well being and
(01:17):
integrative Education. Dr.
Estrada utilizes the tripartiteintegration model of social
influence to inform the designand assessment of educational
interventions. Dr. Estrada'swork focuses on ethnic
populations that arehistorically underrepresented in
(01:37):
higher education, mostvulnerable to the impacts of
climate change, and areproviding diverse and creative
solutions. As a leading scholaron issues of diversity and
inclusion. She is currentlyserving on a national research
council roundtable, and wasrecently selected by the Howard
Hughes Medical Institute as afacilitator scholar. This
(02:01):
conversation continues from partone with Donna Hicks, with
conversations about empiricalexaminations of social identity,
belonging, stereotype threat,kindness and dignity. We begin
with an excerpt from DonnaHicks, as Donna spoke about how
Mica Estrada impacted her senseof belonging at Harvard.
(02:23):
So I'm going to read some ofthese questions because I put
some thought into them. So Iwanted to first ask you about
your story of entering Harvardbecause I believe that in that
story, I heard the play ofimposter phenomena. And then the
restorative language ofbelonging when a new colleague
tells you, we've been waitingfor you. So could you tell us
(02:44):
about the experience ofbelonging, an imposter
phenomena, and then how itinformed your early
understandings of dignity? If westart there?
Donna Hicks (02:53):
No one has ever asked me that question. This is
just fascinating. So I'm goingto be just thinking out loud
with you on that question? Soyes, I did all my graduate work
at the University of Wisconsinin Madison, I was there for 15
years, got four degrees. Andleaving there felt like ripping
(03:14):
myself away from you know, talkabout belonging, I felt like
that was where I belonged, yet Ihad this opportunity to go to
Harvard, I was asked, you know,Professor, Herbert Kelman said,
come to Harvard, and we have awonderful program, and all the
things that you're interested inthe social psychological
dimensions of internationalconflict. And my, you know, my
(03:38):
brain said, yes, yes, you've gotto go there. But my heart was so
torn. I don't want to leaveMadison, Wisconsin. But then I
got there, I got to Harvard. AndI was looking around and
thinking, Oh, my gosh, what am Idoing here? You know, spent all
these years in the Midwest,where people were just really
(03:59):
friendly and open. And I'mthinking, I don't think this is
going to be this way here. Whatam I going to run back home?
And, and so one day, I diddecide, alright, just jump in. I
said to myself, just jump in,literally jump, go to the gym,
take a class and you know, getyour, you know, get yourself
(04:20):
centered. And so I did, I wentin to this gym and was going to
a class. And the person at thedesk told me to go to the to the
locker room, leave my things inlocker went in there. And I
realized that oh my gosh, youwere supposed to bring your own
lock. And I stood there indespair, thinking, Oh, I'm not
(04:43):
walking the mile back to my tomy apartment to get a lock. And
this one woman stood there andsaid, Are you okay? And I said,
Oh no, I just didn't realize Iwas supposed to bring a lock and
she said, Oh, come on. Justshare mine with me. Don't worry
about it. total stranger. Righttotal stranger. And so then she
said. So tell me, what are youdoing here? And I said, Oh, I'm
(05:09):
going to be doing a postdoc withProfessor Herbert Kelman. And
she looked at me and she said,Donna, is that you? And I said,
Yes, who are you? And she said,I'm Mica. I'm Mica Estrada,
we've been waiting for you, wecan't wait to have you come and
join our group. And so all ofthat makes me want to weep right
(05:30):
now just thinking about it. Butall of those fears of not
fitting in, you know, not being,you know, one of these Harvard
intellectual types. And eventhough as I told you, I got five
degrees from the University ofWisconsin, you know, I did
wonder whether I was going tofit in. And lo and behold, Mica
(05:51):
Estrada comes into my life andtotally changes that. And the
next day, I went into ProfessorKelman's office met all of the
people who are in his program,there were about maybe 10
graduate students and a coupleof postdocs, too. And Kevin,
they were so warm and welcoming.
And I felt like an immediateconnection, immediate, and it
(06:13):
was because of their generosity,you know. And I think Mica also
understood, she saw my despairin that locker room. And it
wasn't just despair that Ididn't bring my lock. It was I
think she saw something deeper.
And she was right. And to, andto have somebody see you in that
way to be seen and experiencedin that way. It just all the
(06:38):
boundaries just dissolved forme. And I felt and to this day,
we have a connection mica and I.
And so those fears are real, youknow, they're, I don't want to
minimize them for myself or forother people as well going into
a new situation like that andwondering whether you know,
you're going to this is going tobe right for you. And so that's
I liked the way you juxtaposedit with you know, the imposter
(07:01):
syndrome and the, the need forbelonging.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (07:08):
Yeah, I should tell you that, you know,
so I read your book years ago,and your leadership book as
well. And then like, two orthree months ago, I said, I'm
gonna go back and reread yourbook, because this entire
season, I'm focusing onbelonging, and how it intersects
with peacebuilding. And I, Iwent back to read your book to
see, does dignity have aconversation to have with
(07:29):
belonging? And so that was oneof the things that jumped out
early to me as I read your book.
So
Donna Hicks (07:35):
I think it's fundamental. I mean, you can't
feel connected with other peopleunless, you know, there's some
sense of belonging. It's I thinkit's the glue. You know, that.
And, you know, we all want that.
We don't like being out on themargins and isolated, right,
right.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (07:57):
In the moments when we cross new
thresholds, we may carryfeelings of impostor phenomena
about our enoughness and whetherwe belong. The uncertainty of
our enoughness increasesanxiousness, and cognitive load.
Part of what Geoffrey Cohennames as belonging uncertainty.
(08:19):
In the book, The Art ofgathering, Priya Parker uses
examples of hosts at a dinnerparty, as a talented dinner host
welcomes each for their uniquevalue in who they are, they
relieve individuals of hiddenuncertainties, or impostor
feelings that they may carry.
Sitting with Hicks' scholarship,I see that the repair of states
(08:44):
of uncertainty is in connection,a connection to our own dignity
and that of others offers us therest, the embrace that we
belong, just as we are. In herbook, and in our discussions,
Donna spoke about Ariella Berryand mica Estrada as offering
(09:06):
this sense of dignity affirmingand boundary lowering welcome.
Ariella berry lives in Israelwithin the community of Neve
Shalom, modeling a livedpractice of hospitality and
belonging as Israeli Jews andPalestinians living together.
How do we craft expressions of"we have been waiting for you?"
(09:31):
Out of the embrace of our ownenoughness I turned the question
of first moments of welcome toMica Estrada to ask how she
remembered these moments with
Mica Estrada (09:45):
I do remember her arriving I do remember where her
Donna.
office was across from mine. Ido remember that. It wasn't real
clear when she arrived like howshe had gotten. It was like cuz
she wasn't a student, like us,we knew that she had been
invited by my advisor, HerbKelman. And that had happened
(10:07):
other times where people justkind of arrived that he had
invited. And so I think beingLatina and being someone who
really values community I'm Ialways try to cultivate
community wherever I am. In thatcase, the community that was
central was PICAR, that theprogram for international
conflict analysis andresolution, which didn't exist
(10:28):
when I first got there. Thepeople that were working with
herb Kelman on internationalproblem solving workshops, moved
towards institutionalizing theorganization. But that community
of people who was involved inthat work, were probably my
primary well, they were myprimary people. When I was
there, my cohort was also reallyimportant to me. And they were,
(10:48):
that was another place where Iwas thought it was important to
build community, I was the onlyone doing it as a social
psychologist, so I studycommunity and study how
community forms and how peoplebecome part of community. So
it's a personal interest, butit's also part of my academic
interests, and how to restorecommunity after there's been
(11:08):
conflict and hurt and pain.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (11:13):
Before I get into the research, I do an
ask about Herb Kelman, because Isee how much he's mattered to
you and how much he's matteredto Donna, I noticed that as I
read your 2011 article and thearticle on climate change, that
the tripartite model is verymuch informed by his work. And I
wonder if you might open up withabout the ways in which studying
(11:34):
with him, changed you andimpacted you?
Mica Estrada (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, he, he was a great mind. Even in the
last couple of years of hislife, I would read his stuff and
forget just how brilliant justwhat a brilliant man he was. But
I think the thing that alwaysimpressed me the most about Herb
was, he had high standards forintegrity, and for living in
(11:57):
alignment with values andthoughts. And so he had studied
ethics, he had written aboutethics, he had been a child in
Austria when the Holocaustbegan, and he fled. So he was
quite concerned about peoplefollowing orders that would hurt
people. So while he had a hugeimpact on the research and the
(12:21):
work that I have done, I thinkthat the role model of living
into your truth always resonateswith me. And I was, I was really
grateful to have an advisor whoI admired in that way, he wasn't
perfect, and he definitelydidn't always get everything,
right. And there were times Idisagreed with him. But overall,
I loved him, you know, as ahuman being, and he mattered to
(12:43):
me all the way through to theend. So in terms of the
research, the story is that Iwent to go visit him and he had
just published an article in theannual psychology review, that
kind of reviewed his researchfrom the 1950s, all the way
through to 2007, or eight Ican't remember what year that
(13:03):
that was published. So I wasreading that on the train, when
I went to a conference in DC,that was on the under
representation of minorities,Latinos, Native Americans,
African Americans in science,technology, engineering,
mathematics, and medicinefields. So I think having
(13:25):
reading his work, revisiting hiswork, and then being in this
environment, where they'retrying to figure out how to how
to keep people in academia, Ikind of saw that maybe they
could inform that the work thathe was doing, about how people
integrate into community couldinform how looking at how do
students and people integrateinto their disciplines, and into
(13:48):
their, into their communities.
And so that's I went back andstarted collecting data was able
to show that Yeah, in fact, hishis theory is about needing to,
when we're part of a community,being able to do what the
community does, when we're partof a community, starting to
identify ourselves as that partof the community and then
internalizing the values of thatcommunity that, that when we do
(14:08):
all three of those things, webecome highly integrated into a
community we do what the groupdoes, we identify and we
internalize the values when youhave those three. And then when
you're really integrated, youstart to teach others those
things, right, you start tobring them in like with Donna to
naming a part of our community,you know, your you can identify
as part of our group. So it'sreally about how do we become
(14:29):
community and belonging is apiece of it, but it's just a
small piece of it. There'sthere's other aspects to being
part of community thanbelonging, but if you don't have
a longing, it's hard to be apart of a community.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (14:41):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I remember
that article. Actually. It's thearticle where he kind of
identifies decade by decade,kind of his movement through
academia. Yeah, that's
Mica Estrada (14:50):
right. Yeah, yeah.
And you can see how his earlywork on compliance and obedience
how it starts to inform theconflict resolution work, and
how do you form and createenvironments that are supportive
of people being able to talkacross differences and across
painful histories. He always waslooking at the same things, but
(15:13):
he applied it to differentenvironments all the way
through. And then I think Donnareally took the work one step
further by naming the importanceof dignity. I think he never
really did that. And I thoughtthat her work was really
important. She named, named theunnamed in that environment.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (15:34):
Dr. Herb Kelman had a significant
influence on the scholarship ofDr. Donna Hicks and Dr. Mica
Estrada. Kelman has spent alifetime of channeling social
psychological inquiry tounderstand how the social
motivations of individualsimpact larger contexts of
(15:57):
international relations. His1950s leadership in the
Baltimore Congress of RacialEquality, seemed to offer Kelman
lessons in the role ofindividuals within the micro and
macro processes of socialchange. As Kelman's 1950, a
(16:17):
theory of motivation evolved,Kelman named rule, role and
value orientations as a processof socialization and re
socialization within groups.
Estrada translated and updatedKelman's rule role and value
framework into a tripartitemodel of social influence that
(16:37):
can be used to study processesof belonging, inclusion in STEM
fields, and responses toexistential threats like climate
change. The tripartite modelCenter's self efficacy, identity
and values to describe thesocialization process by which
(16:59):
an individual identifies andpersists as a scientist.
I would like to ask about the2011 article first about
scientific communities and thendo the climate change piece. So
if we introduce for thelisteners, this tripartite model
(17:20):
that includes self efficacy,identity and value, I was
wondering if you might open thatup for listeners. And what I was
fascinated about is about howthese three factors mediate and
how they're also differentdepending on context as like the
how, how they work when we talkabout belonging within a
scientific community. So couldyou open that up for us?
Mica Estrada (17:44):
Yeah, so like I said, if you can do the science,
in this case, I and youidentify, I am a scientist, and
you feel like the scientificendeavor is valuable, like it's
a good use of your time that itbrings you truth, you know,
there's these elements of thevalue system of that society of
that group. If you have allthree, you're going to be most
integrated. And I think youdon't have to have all three, to
(18:07):
be a part of a group belongingis kind of a piece of
identification. I think when wefeel belonging, we're more
likely to identify with thegroup, if we don't feel
belonging, we're less likely toidentify with the group and in
the measurements that I use,there's a question about
belonging within the identityelement, but that they are
(18:28):
separate, right? So you can feellike I can do the science, I
have the capability, I have theefficacy, I have confidence, I
can do this. But I really don'tfeel like I'm a scientist, like,
I'm not a part of thatcommunity. But I don't belong in
that community. So those twothings are not the same. And
they do operate separately, butthey can occur together. And the
(18:50):
same thing with the identity andvalues, you could say, Wow, the
values of this group really,really, they're really my
values. But man, I don't feellike I belong in this room. I
like I don't I can't identifywith this group of people. I, I
do think that science can leadus out of our problems. And do
you think it has really greatvalue, but when I go into the
lab, and I'm the only woman andI'm the only woman of color, and
(19:12):
it's all white men, and theybarely talk to me, and in some
cases make fun of me? I don'twant to be I can't identify that
group, right. So they can beseparate from each other. And
one of the things the 2011article shows that all three are
important, but when you look atthem, to see what is most
uniquely predicting persistencein in the sciences, a year after
(19:35):
they graduate as undergraduates,we find that it's identity and
values. There's an article in2018 that I published, it looks
at four years after theygraduate what predicts using the
same kind of structural equationmodel. And what we found still
is that the identity is the onethat really predicts whether
people stay in STEM or not. Andin that 2018 article, we look at
(19:56):
what what leads to or what's Howdoes identity and values and
efficacy mediate therelationship between having
research experience or havingquality mentorship. So people
have high quality mentorshipthat leads them to greater
identification and valueendorsement, they're more likely
to persist. So we asked aboutthe mediation they mediate. Also
(20:17):
for research experience, whenyou have research experience at
least two semesters, and thatleads to greater identification
and value endorsement you'remore likely to go on.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (20:30):
Estrada's 2011 Study reviewed 1053
minority science students from50 universities to understand
the integration and persistencechallenges that minoritized
students face in science. Inthis study, self efficacy,
(20:50):
identity and values workedtogether and separately, to
describe diverse paths toscientific community
integration. With self efficacy,we need to believe we have
adequate capacity to contributeas we enter a new field of
study. As we persist, we appearto need to see ourselves as
(21:15):
identifying with the community.
And we need to sense that ourvalues align. Thus, in this
study, identity and valuesmattered to students' sense of
belonging, and persistencewithin scientific communities.
Given that self efficacy,identity and values are
(21:35):
intertwined, and uniquelyinfluential, how do these
factors impact belonging withinother communities? When does a
factor help us cross a thresholdto belong? What factors might
help us persist beyond aninitial acceptance?
(21:59):
What I think I remember from thearticles that is kind of
challenging that, prior to thattime, we had kind of a hyper
focus on self efficacy as beingthe defining metric by which a
person feels like they belong toa scientific community. And
you're, you're opening up thisidea that self efficacy matters.
But it also needs to have theseother things alongside it.
(22:20):
That's true.
Mica Estrada (22:21):
And if you look at the literature, most of the
research is done in the STEMarea with efficacy. Really, the
long term impacts are like amonth or two at most, most
people don't look at a year two,three years later. So you have
to really watch when you'relooking in the literature, how
far out is the outcome? So whatwe know is that the identity is
(22:41):
is an indicator for longer termchoices in the direction of
persistence for those fields.
And the efficacy doesn't havethat same, it relates, but it
doesn't, it's not the Becauseyou can you can think about it
is a person who's studyingright, you might feel like,
well, I can really do this, I'min my senior year at college, I
love it. I'm really great atthis, and then you start your
graduate program, you're like,Oh, my God, all these people are
(23:03):
brilliant, like, I don't know,if I really and your efficacy
goes down a little while, andthen you know, it might build
back up, and then you get a newjob, and it drops again, so that
efficacy is not quite as stableacross time. And so it doesn't
have that longer term. Itdoesn't always have the longer
term, sometimes it does, andsometimes it doesn't.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (23:28):
So if we flip to climate change. What I
also understand there is thatmany of the models that we have
looked at with climate changehave looked at like the
individual, the individualchoices, the individual
behavior. And I think that whenyou channel Herb Kelman and you
move into this model, you'reasking about the individual, but
you're also asking what's theindividual's relationship to the
(23:48):
social, and that the socialmatters when we're talking about
a major crisis that's facing us?
So could you also thentranslate, like, how do self
efficacy, identity and valuework in this context, when we're
talking about climate changeaction?
Mica Estrada (24:06):
I think the interesting thing for me when I
was when I was directing theclimate education partners, and
we were doing this research, waswe used it in a diagnostic way.
So for instance, with the withthis, the science that with the
STEM field, identity was often ahard one to like that was the
one that you're trying to buildoften is identity. It's kind of
(24:26):
the weaker piece thatparticularly for marginalized
people that you have to changethe environment to help build
that up. But when you got intotalking to him, we were mostly
working with leaders, decisionmakers, key influentials in San
Diego and then we did a largerkind of polling of the larger
community. What we found wasthat overall, people had
(24:51):
identity. You know, people didcare, they would say, Yeah, I'm
part of that community that'sconcerned about climate change.
But they often didn't know whatto do. The efficacy was the one
that's where the weakness was.
It's very few people that you'llfind that say, Yeah, we want to
destroy the planet, like there'sthis. That's the value of trying
to keep the planet going. It'spretty high. There's a lot of
(25:11):
disagreement on why, why theremight be climate change.
There's, you know, especially atthat time has changed a little
bit now, but there's a lot ofdisagreement on, there's a lot
of agreement on the value ofbeing good to the planet
overall. There's disagreementson why it's happening or what's
what's a threat. There's prettymuch a lot of people identify
that they are concerned,especially as we've seen things
(25:32):
change a lot more. But thatefficacy was the diagnostic
element, like people don't knowwhat to do, how, as I how, as an
individual, do I stop this fromhappening? And that's where we
have work to do. And I would sayin other areas of psychology, we
know that when we're underthreat, when we're feeling fear
when we're feeling threat,feeling like we don't know what
(25:54):
to do. accompaniment is reallyimportant community is really
important and helps us tonavigate when we're uncertain.
And so, I think with addressingclimate change communities can
be is and continues to be reallyimportant for for people to
continue to do the worknecessary to change our
trajectory right now.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (26:15):
As we face daunting challenges like
ecological collapse, it is worthremembering that prior
generations also facedchallenges that required
communal accompaniment, andsmall persevering steps. Faced
with overwhelming challenge,where do we find steps of change
(26:36):
and our belief in our capacity?
How do we converse towardconnective values and open space
for diverse identities? Howmight dignity guide our first
steps and offer a sharedgrounding of connection? Angela
Lederach's book, feel the grassgrow, witnesses ecological
(26:56):
peacebuilding practices amongcampesinos in Colombia. She and
her Colombian conversants nameaccompaniment as something that
offers perseverance, hope,grounding and social connection.
Accompaniment recastspeacebuilding as an ongoing
practice of, quote, presence andattention. Accompaniment builds
(27:21):
persistence, and sustainedaction across what might
otherwise be debilitatingchallenges of conflict.
I wanted to ask you about valuesor having read Steele and having
read Cohen and all theliterature about stereotype
(27:42):
threat. You know, there's,there's the wonderful literature
that happens, I think, around2006 or so where they start to
identify that it you know, if ateacher comes in, and they ask
students to write down theirvalues, that it seems to
mitigate stereotype threat,especially for marginalized
students, and maybe has animpact on academics later on.
(28:04):
And you've been approachingvalues as well, but maybe
slightly differently. Talk aboutthe ways in which you ask
questions about the ways inwhich people adopt the values of
a group and what you havelearned about values from a
social psychology lens?
Mica Estrada (28:19):
A great question.
Yeah, there's different peopleapproach values in different
ways. So there's a lot ofresearch where it's like, here's
a list of values and which onesthey endorse, there's been work
done, like internationally tosee what are kind of common
values for differentcommunities, different cultural
groups, there has, I think thework that you're referring to
(28:39):
has people talk about, like whatit says kind of affirming self
of like, This is who I am, thisis what matters to me. And by
having that kind of reflectionon self affirming experiences,
then that kind of buffers the, Ithink the in their terms kind of
the self, so that when you havean assault in some way or a
threat to your self image,you're kind of have a little bit
(29:00):
of lining to, to buffer it alittle bit. So what I was
looking at, when I first starteddoing this research, I actually
went to Scripps ResearchInstitute. And I had people
write down what they thought thevalues of the science community
was. And so they wrote, peoplewrote lists and lists and lists
and I took the top ones, likethe top 30. And I went back and
I had them rate, which ones werethe most important they thought
(29:24):
or most central. And then fromthat I took the top ones and I
met created that scientificvalue measure. So this was like
not what is your personal value,but what is what is your
community value? What are thevalues of your community? They
were very specific to thecommunity. They weren't like, we
value truth. It was more like wevalue spending long hours to
(29:45):
advance knowledge. You know, orwe we believe that by doing
this, this work, we can make theworld a better place. Yeah. So
it's there were kind of theselarger value statements really
of what the community agreedupon why this was noble, good
work to do. But thatdifferentiates it and it's, and
(30:07):
the questions the way I asked itwas, how much does this person
describe you? And a person, Whodoes, Who thinks da-da-da-da, as
opposed to them just generatinga value list? So, but it is
different?
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (30:21):
And am I correct? If I say that, when you
start to identify with thevalues of a community, that's
also another pathway intobelonging? Or do you not define
it that way? So
Mica Estrada (30:32):
I think it can happen one of two ways. So
community has a set a type ofvalue system, most almost every
community has a value system waseven basketball teams will have
a value system, you know, whatthey what rules they have, they
think are important and such.
You could either someone findsthe group and says, Well, they
have the same values I do,right? This this church group,
(30:52):
whatever, that that's me. Andit's like, they already carry it
with them and they go, Wow,that's I just fit like a glove.
The other way is that youactually modify yourself, right?
You start to adjust yourself sothat you then do endorse those
values. So when you hang outwith a group of people, you
might start where you never everwatch wrestling, right? Like you
(31:14):
think it's barbaric for thesepeople to wrestle, but you hang
out with these people, they'rereally fun, you spend a lot of
time with them, they tend to getlots of food and have a great
time watching wrestling overtime, your your value that, that
it's barbaric kind of changes,you start to think of it as fun
and your value system changes,so that you can fit into that
group. So I think it can happeneither way, I think you can
(31:38):
arrive where it's just acomplete fit or, or you feel
like you have to kind of moveyou move yourself over time to
endorse those values tounderstand the values to make
them feel like they're reallyyours. And then I think with the
work with STEM for me, one ofthe things I've argued about is
that the value system of theSTEM field often is very
(31:59):
individualistic. And for peoplewho come from come from cultures
that are more community based,it doesn't fit well. And that
perhaps if we want to increasepersistence and increase
inclusion, the value system ofthe disciplines actually, and
the scientific enterprise needsto enlargen so that it can be
more connected to people of manydifferent cultures.
Kevin Shorner-John (32:29):
"Stereotypes can be harmful because they
undermine the safety of groupmembership, fixate attributes
and flatten the diversity of ouruniqueness." Individuals
experience stereotype threatwhen they encounter difficulty
in a situation that hasassociated stereotypes. Claude
Steele, notes stereotype threatcan increase doubt, uncertainty,
(32:54):
and have a detrimental effect onperformance. To counter
stereotype threat, Cohen Steeleand others developed a kind of
values affirmation methodology.
When teachers ask students abouttheir values, this appears to
communicate a desire to know astudent with greater depth and
individuation than thelimitations of stereotype. "A
(33:16):
2006 study by Cohen found thatvalues affirmed minoritized
students demonstrated greateracademic resilience than a
control condition as they cameupon challenging classroom
assignments. In follow upstudies, this treatment effect
appeared to have lasted as longas two to nine years.
(33:39):
Minoritized students are thoselikely to question their
belonging in a majority contextwere most impacted." As Estrada
notes, her approach to values isdifferent. Drawing on the work
of Schwartz et al in theportrait value questionnaire,
(34:00):
Estrada asked participants aboutthe degree to which they felt
similar to someone who, as anexample, "thinks discussing new
theories and ideas isthrilling," and other scientific
value prompts. What I findfascinating about the totality
of values work is the connectiveforce of our beliefs and
(34:24):
valuations. With values, we cometo be known and individuated.
And we connect with othersthrough a shared sense of what
matters. Donna Hicks dignitymodel seeks to find the root of
our most foundational valuesabout universal dignity. Dignity
(34:46):
is a value that can connect usacross boundary lines and open
channels of listening to theworth and value of each human
being. Mica Estrada took thiswork of dignity and translated
it into the work of affirmationsor kindness. Estrada defines
(35:06):
kindness, quote, "as an act orquality of action that conveys
in subtle and sometimes obviousways, respect for the dignity of
another person." Whether held inthe micro expression of a tone
of voice or in the macrogestures of welcome,
(35:26):
affirmations build identity andbelonging within spaces that
might otherwise be sites ofuncertainty or threat.
So, kindness, so, in your 2018article, you recognize that much
of the discourse on persistencehas focused on individual
(35:47):
characteristics like grit, goalsand determination. And that when
the social is considered, it'susually considered in a deficit
term, and in terms of maybethreats or aggression. And so
what I think I understand isthat you're you're arguing for
for another dimension, thatthere is a social element that
is affirming, and it can bemicro and macro. So would you
(36:09):
introduce kindness to us, and Ialso want to get to how you tie
kindness to dignity. But I willlet you start by introducing
kindness to us and where it fitsin this in the whole picture.
Mica Estrada (36:21):
Yeah, so as I was doing the research on the
tripartite integration model ofsocial influence, I think what
where it leads you naturally is,how would the environment, the
social context of disciplines ofacademia, how would it need to
change in order for it to be aplace where people want to stay?
(36:45):
That's really, I think, whatdrew me over into thinking about
what is it that is making peoplenot integrate into their
discipline communities. And thatreally led me to the concept of,
of kindness, which, for me, Idefined it as an act that
affirms the dignity of anotherperson. It's an action that
(37:08):
it's, I think, dignity, havingour dignity is really important.
But the action of supportinganother person affirming another
person's dignity, I think, isthe act of kindness. And when
kindness, when we experiencekindness, a piece of our, we
feel as if we are being affirmedin some way as a human. And so
that's where that's where itbegan. And I wrote that article.
(37:31):
And the way I described it in, Ididn't put in the article, when
I talk about it, I think aboutlike a garden. And in a garden,
if you have a fruit, fruits andthings that you've planted, if
you look at it, and you lookwhere the weeds grow, the weeds
always grow in the places wherehealthy plants are not growing.
So a lot of times when we'reapproaching diversity,
(37:53):
inclusion, and equity, and we'retalking about racism, and
prejudice, and discriminationand stereotype threat, all of
those things that we're talkingabout are like, how do we get
the how do we get all the weedsout? Right? How do we get all
the weeds out? And one of thethings I was taught was to plant
densely healthy plants. Sothere's less space for the for
(38:14):
the weeds to grow. So what doesthat mean, to grow, to grow
things that are healthy? That tome is the micro and macro
affirmations, that is kindness,those are the things if that is
really growing in an environmentin a social environment, you
have these positive thingshappening, there's less space
(38:36):
for all the negative stuff to becoming up. So yes, let's pull
out racism, let's pull outdiscrimination, let's pull out
all of those things. But at thesame time, let's plant stuff
that's healthy into ourenvironments, and really nurture
that so that there's less spacefor all those things to come
back again. And I think a lot oftimes, we don't do that piece.
(38:57):
And so it just comes back inanother form.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (39:02):
Your 2019 Study fascinated me. It's almost
like it's a three partstructure. In one graph, you had
scientific self efficacy, andthen intentions to persist. And
the other graph, you had microaffirmation, scientific identity
and intentions to persist. It'sa mediated model. And it's a
model on which all three needeach other. Could you talk about
(39:22):
the interdependence, macroaffirmations just by themself
aren't enough, but we need themto either build up an identity
or build up self efficacy? Yeah,
Mica Estrada (39:32):
I mean, in the context of this was
undergraduates. And so it'sexactly what you said that what
we found was that when peopleexperienced micro affirmations,
they, to the extent that thathelps to build their efficacy,
their sense that they do thescience, or to the extent that
it helps them to build a senseof identity as a scientist, then
they're more likely to persist.
And I think that that's justbecause you need those the
(39:53):
identity and you need theefficacy. They're essential. For
persisting, this is really kindof a precursor in some ways to
the kindness work, because itwas an attempt to see like, what
is it in the social environmentthat helps to produce and
elevate and help people to, togain those elements that are
necessary for integration intotheir community. I've now have a
(40:16):
research project that's we'reabout ready to submit it, where
we actually ask about kindnessdirectly. And we use Donna
Hicks' measure. So we used Iwent to Donna's work on dignity.
And in the 2018 article, Italked about the measurement, a
potential measurement forkindness. But we actually did
(40:36):
it. So among academics, mostlyfaculty members, we ask them at
how much do they receivekindness using those kinds of 10
elements from Donna's work? Andthen how much do they act in a
way that's kind in their world,in their work world? And then we
also measured institutionalidentity, how much do they
(40:56):
identify with the institutions,their well being and their
stress levels. And what we foundwas that when people receive
kindness, they're more likely toidentify with their
institutions. And then they'remore likely to have better
wellbeing and lower stress. Butacting in a kind way didn't have
(41:17):
that relationship at all. So itreally had to do with how much
they felt they were receiving.
And I think that that has to dobecause if you're giving if you
feel like you're really kind ofno one's kind back to you, that
is not that does not, not sohelpful, that this is a study
that's really done with faculty,thinking about academia as a
(41:37):
work environment, and just howimportant that receiving
kindness, having our dignitiesaffirmed, is really important to
building up a sense of identitywithin the institution. And then
there's outcomes that are goodwith that.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (41:54):
If if we think about this being an
audience of peacebuilders,music, teachers, other kinds of
teachers, you know, most of yourexpertise has been in scientific
forms of community. But what arethe pieces of this that we
should be asking about as wethink about diversity, equity,
inclusion and belonging in somany places where there may be
(42:16):
communities that don't feel aswelcomed? And how do you build a
more expansive community?
Mica Estrada (42:21):
Yeah, I think you go back to some of the work of
Donna Hicks. And when she talksabout dignity, the way that we
operationalized it in terms ofreceiving kindness is, is do you
feel free to express yourauthentic self without being
negatively judged? Wouldn't thatbe great - that your efforts and
(42:42):
thoughtfulness and talents arepositively recognized? You feel
concerned and experienceexperiences were acknowledged as
valid, others convey you wereincluded, others actions made
you feel safe with them, youwere treated fairly, your
choices were respected, othersmade an effort to understand
you, you're given the benefit ofthe doubt, which is often
(43:02):
lacking when we're working withpeople who we have conflict
with. And you receive an apologywhen your dignity felt violated.
Those are the way that we'vebeen measuring kindness, really
building on Donna's work. But Ithink that those are central to
any type of environment wherewe're trying to communicate,
whether we have differences orsimilarities. I think that I'm
(43:24):
Associate Dean for DiversityInclusion outreach in the School
of Nursing at UCSF, and werecently have had difficulties I
guess, with differentcommunities in both regard to
the the war in Gaza. And, and wehave people from all sides,
right within our community whoare feeling hurt. And I came
(43:46):
back to looking at these becauseI thought, okay, we, regardless
of what is happening, and howmuch pain people are feeling,
our is our community receivingthis, from the Leadership isn't
receiving this from from ourcommunity, is their dignity is
still being held. And so. So Ithink when we're doing work in
(44:06):
conflict resolution spaces,these are things to train
towards, right are these thingshere? Are they not here? And if
they're not here, how do we, howdo we ensure they're here
because I know you can talkabout differences without
violating people's dignity. Youcan be very angry at a person
without violating someone'sdignity, doesn't mean that
you're in complete alignment.
And I think same, the same thingis kindness, right? We can treat
(44:28):
people in a kind way. Even ifwe're not agreeing with them. We
don't have to annihilate whothey are in the process of it.
So we're always gonna havedifferences with each other.
This is part of the humancondition, that how we deal with
our communications when we havethose differences, is really
(44:49):
central to what kind ofcommunity and planet we're going
to have and I'll add this. A lotof academia was established
through people who werecolonizers, and the education
system was structured to reallydisassemble the heart from the
(45:09):
head, you're not going to beable to enslave people, you're
not going to be able to commitgenocide, if your heart's too
connected to your head. And ourearly education system was
really landed? people beingeducated to exploit the planet
and exploit people. So,kindness, if you are too kind,
(45:30):
you are not going to be able todo those types of things. So our
education system pulled apartthat heart and the head. And
really the work on kindness forme is like how do we remember to
connect, reconnect these things,and to recognize that this kind
of colonized mindset is actuallydestroying us, it makes us hurt
each other and it makes us hurtour planet. And we don't have
(45:53):
space anymore for that. So it's,it's a paradigm shift in our
education system to think thatkindness will really matter, in
how we treat each other, how weeducate each other, how we work
with each other. And it'sdissembling or taking apart, a
legacy that was really built onexploitation.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (46:19):
At the closure of his book on
belonging, Cohen writes, quote,"it may seem unrealistic to
expect that teachers should lovetheir students. But the more I
delve into the research onteaching, the more it seems to
converge on the importance oflove, of faith we choose to have
in the inherent worth, anddignity of another human being.
(46:45):
Stereotypes undermine thisfaith, constricting our hearts,
blinding us to one another'sfull humanity." The scholarship
of Mica Estrada and Donna Hicksoffers pathways of connection,
kindness, affirmation andbelonging. As we utter the
(47:05):
words, we've been waiting foryou, we cross thresholds of
doubt, to enter doors ofkindness and welcome. May we
come to believe in our capacity,and illuminate inner lights of
individuality in a shared glowof community. A poem taken from
(47:28):
the language and stories of thistwo part podcast
may dignity be our garden, tothe unfolding of close rows of
possibility, of capacity for theseeds of the next generation of
kindness. May belonging be ourguide of below to entangled
(47:52):
roots and nurturance of sharedabundance. And when the
vulnerability of separationbecomes too much a reality, may
we be reminded, we are all soil,partnering nutrients of
marvelous diversity,interconnection, a rooted
(48:16):
embrace, belonging, and dignity.
Special thanks to Dr. MicaEstrada and Dr. Donna Hicks for
their time in producing thispodcast. Our episode webpage
contains an extensive referencelist of some of Dr. Estrada's
(48:38):
scholarship. As a startingpoint, I highly recommend her
2018 article with colleagues onthe influence of affirming
kindness and community onbroadening participation in STEM
career pathways. This episodefrequently pulls from the work
of Claude Steele's WhistlingVivaldi and Geoffrey Cohen's
(48:59):
text on belonging. Also found onour website. Dr. Hicks books on
dignity are published by YaleUniversity Press her 2,021/10
Anniversary Edition, Dignity,Its essential role in resolving
conflict is a must read onelements and constructions of
dignity. Her 2018 book leadingwith dignity, how to create a
(49:24):
culture that brings out the bestin people is an essential book
for fostering practices ofleadership, that center the
flourishing of dignity. This isthe music and peacebuilding
podcast hosted by KevinShorner-Johnson. At
Elizabethtown college we host aMaster of Music Education, with
an emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(49:48):
at music peacebuilding.com
I know you can talk about differences without
violating people's dignity. Youcan be very angry at a person
without violating someone'sdignity. And I think same, the
same thing is kindness, right?
We can treat people in a kindway. Even if we're not agreeing
with them. We're always gonnahave differences with each
other. This is part of the humancondition. That how we deal with
our communications when we havethose differences is central to
(00:23):
what kind of community andplanet we're going to have.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:30):
You are listening to season four of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a podcast season focused on
multifaceted textures ofbelonging. Our podcast explores
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imaginationthrough research and story.
Dr. Mica Estrada received herPhD in Social Psychology from
(00:53):
Harvard University. She servesat the University of California,
San Francisco as the AssociateDean of diversity, inclusion and
equity for the School ofNursing. She is also a professor
in the Department of Social andBehavioral Sciences at the
Institute for Health and Ageing.
Her research program focuses onsocial influence, including the
study of identity values,forgiveness, well being and
(01:17):
integrative Education. Dr.
Estrada utilizes the tripartiteintegration model of social
influence to inform the designand assessment of educational
interventions. Dr. Estrada'swork focuses on ethnic
populations that arehistorically underrepresented in
(01:37):
higher education, mostvulnerable to the impacts of
climate change, and areproviding diverse and creative
solutions. As a leading scholaron issues of diversity and
inclusion. She is currentlyserving on a national research
council roundtable, and wasrecently selected by the Howard
Hughes Medical Institute as afacilitator scholar. This
(02:01):
conversation continues from partone with Donna Hicks, with
conversations about empiricalexaminations of social identity,
belonging, stereotype threat,kindness and dignity. We begin
with an excerpt from DonnaHicks, as Donna spoke about how
Mica Estrada impacted her senseof belonging at Harvard.
(02:23):
So I'm going to read some ofthese questions because I put
some thought into them. So Iwanted to first ask you about
your story of entering Harvardbecause I believe that in that
story, I heard the play ofimposter phenomena. And then the
restorative language ofbelonging when a new colleague
tells you, we've been waitingfor you. So could you tell us
(02:44):
about the experience ofbelonging, an imposter
phenomena, and then how itinformed your early
understandings of dignity? If westart there?
Donna Hicks (02:53):
No one has ever asked me that question. This is
just fascinating. So I'm goingto be just thinking out loud
with you on that question? Soyes, I did all my graduate work
at the University of Wisconsinin Madison, I was there for 15
years, got four degrees. Andleaving there felt like ripping
(03:14):
myself away from you know, talkabout belonging, I felt like
that was where I belonged, yet Ihad this opportunity to go to
Harvard, I was asked, you know,Professor, Herbert Kelman said,
come to Harvard, and we have awonderful program, and all the
things that you're interested inthe social psychological
dimensions of internationalconflict. And my, you know, my
(03:38):
brain said, yes, yes, you've gotto go there. But my heart was so
torn. I don't want to leaveMadison, Wisconsin. But then I
got there, I got to Harvard. AndI was looking around and
thinking, Oh, my gosh, what am Idoing here? You know, spent all
these years in the Midwest,where people were just really
(03:59):
friendly and open. And I'mthinking, I don't think this is
going to be this way here. Whatam I going to run back home?
And, and so one day, I diddecide, alright, just jump in. I
said to myself, just jump in,literally jump, go to the gym,
take a class and you know, getyour, you know, get yourself
(04:20):
centered. And so I did, I wentin to this gym and was going to
a class. And the person at thedesk told me to go to the to the
locker room, leave my things inlocker went in there. And I
realized that oh my gosh, youwere supposed to bring your own
lock. And I stood there indespair, thinking, Oh, I'm not
(04:43):
walking the mile back to my tomy apartment to get a lock. And
this one woman stood there andsaid, Are you okay? And I said,
Oh no, I just didn't realize Iwas supposed to bring a lock and
she said, Oh, come on. Justshare mine with me. Don't worry
about it. total stranger. Righttotal stranger. And so then she
said. So tell me, what are youdoing here? And I said, Oh, I'm
(05:09):
going to be doing a postdoc withProfessor Herbert Kelman. And
she looked at me and she said,Donna, is that you? And I said,
Yes, who are you? And she said,I'm Mica. I'm Mica Estrada,
we've been waiting for you, wecan't wait to have you come and
join our group. And so all ofthat makes me want to weep right
(05:30):
now just thinking about it. Butall of those fears of not
fitting in, you know, not being,you know, one of these Harvard
intellectual types. And eventhough as I told you, I got five
degrees from the University ofWisconsin, you know, I did
wonder whether I was going tofit in. And lo and behold, Mica
(05:51):
Estrada comes into my life andtotally changes that. And the
next day, I went into ProfessorKelman's office met all of the
people who are in his program,there were about maybe 10
graduate students and a coupleof postdocs, too. And Kevin,
they were so warm and welcoming.
And I felt like an immediateconnection, immediate, and it
(06:13):
was because of their generosity,you know. And I think Mica also
understood, she saw my despairin that locker room. And it
wasn't just despair that Ididn't bring my lock. It was I
think she saw something deeper.
And she was right. And to, andto have somebody see you in that
way to be seen and experiencedin that way. It just all the
(06:38):
boundaries just dissolved forme. And I felt and to this day,
we have a connection mica and I.
And so those fears are real, youknow, they're, I don't want to
minimize them for myself or forother people as well going into
a new situation like that andwondering whether you know,
you're going to this is going tobe right for you. And so that's
I liked the way you juxtaposedit with you know, the imposter
(07:01):
syndrome and the, the need forbelonging.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (07:08):
Yeah, I should tell you that, you know,
so I read your book years ago,and your leadership book as
well. And then like, two orthree months ago, I said, I'm
gonna go back and reread yourbook, because this entire
season, I'm focusing onbelonging, and how it intersects
with peacebuilding. And I, Iwent back to read your book to
see, does dignity have aconversation to have with
(07:29):
belonging? And so that was oneof the things that jumped out
early to me as I read your book.
So
Donna Hicks (07:35):
I think it's fundamental. I mean, you can't
feel connected with other peopleunless, you know, there's some
sense of belonging. It's I thinkit's the glue. You know, that.
And, you know, we all want that.
We don't like being out on themargins and isolated, right,
right.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (07:57):
In the moments when we cross new
thresholds, we may carryfeelings of impostor phenomena
about our enoughness and whetherwe belong. The uncertainty of
our enoughness increasesanxiousness, and cognitive load.
Part of what Geoffrey Cohennames as belonging uncertainty.
(08:19):
In the book, The Art ofgathering, Priya Parker uses
examples of hosts at a dinnerparty, as a talented dinner host
welcomes each for their uniquevalue in who they are, they
relieve individuals of hiddenuncertainties, or impostor
feelings that they may carry.
Sitting with Hicks' scholarship,I see that the repair of states
(08:44):
of uncertainty is in connection,a connection to our own dignity
and that of others offers us therest, the embrace that we
belong, just as we are. In herbook, and in our discussions,
Donna spoke about Ariella Berryand mica Estrada as offering
(09:06):
this sense of dignity affirmingand boundary lowering welcome.
Ariella berry lives in Israelwithin the community of Neve
Shalom, modeling a livedpractice of hospitality and
belonging as Israeli Jews andPalestinians living together.
How do we craft expressions of"we have been waiting for you?"
(09:31):
Out of the embrace of our ownenoughness I turned the question
of first moments of welcome toMica Estrada to ask how she
remembered these moments with
Mica Estrada (09:45):
I do remember her arriving I do remember where her
Donna.
office was across from mine. Ido remember that. It wasn't real
clear when she arrived like howshe had gotten. It was like cuz
she wasn't a student, like us,we knew that she had been
invited by my advisor, HerbKelman. And that had happened
(10:07):
other times where people justkind of arrived that he had
invited. And so I think beingLatina and being someone who
really values community I'm Ialways try to cultivate
community wherever I am. In thatcase, the community that was
central was PICAR, that theprogram for international
conflict analysis andresolution, which didn't exist
(10:28):
when I first got there. Thepeople that were working with
herb Kelman on internationalproblem solving workshops, moved
towards institutionalizing theorganization. But that community
of people who was involved inthat work, were probably my
primary well, they were myprimary people. When I was
there, my cohort was also reallyimportant to me. And they were,
(10:48):
that was another place where Iwas thought it was important to
build community, I was the onlyone doing it as a social
psychologist, so I studycommunity and study how
community forms and how peoplebecome part of community. So
it's a personal interest, butit's also part of my academic
interests, and how to restorecommunity after there's been
(11:08):
conflict and hurt and pain.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (11:13):
Before I get into the research, I do an
ask about Herb Kelman, because Isee how much he's mattered to
you and how much he's matteredto Donna, I noticed that as I
read your 2011 article and thearticle on climate change, that
the tripartite model is verymuch informed by his work. And I
wonder if you might open up withabout the ways in which studying
(11:34):
with him, changed you andimpacted you?
Mica Estrada (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, he, he was a great mind. Even in the
last couple of years of hislife, I would read his stuff and
forget just how brilliant justwhat a brilliant man he was. But
I think the thing that alwaysimpressed me the most about Herb
was, he had high standards forintegrity, and for living in
(11:57):
alignment with values andthoughts. And so he had studied
ethics, he had written aboutethics, he had been a child in
Austria when the Holocaustbegan, and he fled. So he was
quite concerned about peoplefollowing orders that would hurt
people. So while he had a hugeimpact on the research and the
(12:21):
work that I have done, I thinkthat the role model of living
into your truth always resonateswith me. And I was, I was really
grateful to have an advisor whoI admired in that way, he wasn't
perfect, and he definitelydidn't always get everything,
right. And there were times Idisagreed with him. But overall,
I loved him, you know, as ahuman being, and he mattered to
(12:43):
me all the way through to theend. So in terms of the
research, the story is that Iwent to go visit him and he had
just published an article in theannual psychology review, that
kind of reviewed his researchfrom the 1950s, all the way
through to 2007, or eight Ican't remember what year that
(13:03):
that was published. So I wasreading that on the train, when
I went to a conference in DC,that was on the under
representation of minorities,Latinos, Native Americans,
African Americans in science,technology, engineering,
mathematics, and medicinefields. So I think having
(13:25):
reading his work, revisiting hiswork, and then being in this
environment, where they'retrying to figure out how to how
to keep people in academia, Ikind of saw that maybe they
could inform that the work thathe was doing, about how people
integrate into community couldinform how looking at how do
students and people integrateinto their disciplines, and into
(13:48):
their, into their communities.
And so that's I went back andstarted collecting data was able
to show that Yeah, in fact, hishis theory is about needing to,
when we're part of a community,being able to do what the
community does, when we're partof a community, starting to
identify ourselves as that partof the community and then
internalizing the values of thatcommunity that, that when we do
(14:08):
all three of those things, webecome highly integrated into a
community we do what the groupdoes, we identify and we
internalize the values when youhave those three. And then when
you're really integrated, youstart to teach others those
things, right, you start tobring them in like with Donna to
naming a part of our community,you know, your you can identify
as part of our group. So it'sreally about how do we become
(14:29):
community and belonging is apiece of it, but it's just a
small piece of it. There'sthere's other aspects to being
part of community thanbelonging, but if you don't have
a longing, it's hard to be apart of a community.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (14:41):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I remember
that article. Actually. It's thearticle where he kind of
identifies decade by decade,kind of his movement through
academia. Yeah, that's
Mica Estrada (14:50):
right. Yeah, yeah.
And you can see how his earlywork on compliance and obedience
how it starts to inform theconflict resolution work, and
how do you form and createenvironments that are supportive
of people being able to talkacross differences and across
painful histories. He always waslooking at the same things, but
(15:13):
he applied it to differentenvironments all the way
through. And then I think Donnareally took the work one step
further by naming the importanceof dignity. I think he never
really did that. And I thoughtthat her work was really
important. She named, named theunnamed in that environment.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (15:34):
Dr. Herb Kelman had a significant
influence on the scholarship ofDr. Donna Hicks and Dr. Mica
Estrada. Kelman has spent alifetime of channeling social
psychological inquiry tounderstand how the social
motivations of individualsimpact larger contexts of
(15:57):
international relations. His1950s leadership in the
Baltimore Congress of RacialEquality, seemed to offer Kelman
lessons in the role ofindividuals within the micro and
macro processes of socialchange. As Kelman's 1950, a
(16:17):
theory of motivation evolved,Kelman named rule, role and
value orientations as a processof socialization and re
socialization within groups.
Estrada translated and updatedKelman's rule role and value
framework into a tripartitemodel of social influence that
(16:37):
can be used to study processesof belonging, inclusion in STEM
fields, and responses toexistential threats like climate
change. The tripartite modelCenter's self efficacy, identity
and values to describe thesocialization process by which
(16:59):
an individual identifies andpersists as a scientist.
I would like to ask about the2011 article first about
scientific communities and thendo the climate change piece. So
if we introduce for thelisteners, this tripartite model
(17:20):
that includes self efficacy,identity and value, I was
wondering if you might open thatup for listeners. And what I was
fascinated about is about howthese three factors mediate and
how they're also differentdepending on context as like the
how, how they work when we talkabout belonging within a
scientific community. So couldyou open that up for us?
Mica Estrada (17:44):
Yeah, so like I said, if you can do the science,
in this case, I and youidentify, I am a scientist, and
you feel like the scientificendeavor is valuable, like it's
a good use of your time that itbrings you truth, you know,
there's these elements of thevalue system of that society of
that group. If you have allthree, you're going to be most
integrated. And I think youdon't have to have all three, to
(18:07):
be a part of a group belongingis kind of a piece of
identification. I think when wefeel belonging, we're more
likely to identify with thegroup, if we don't feel
belonging, we're less likely toidentify with the group and in
the measurements that I use,there's a question about
belonging within the identityelement, but that they are
(18:28):
separate, right? So you can feellike I can do the science, I
have the capability, I have theefficacy, I have confidence, I
can do this. But I really don'tfeel like I'm a scientist, like,
I'm not a part of thatcommunity. But I don't belong in
that community. So those twothings are not the same. And
they do operate separately, butthey can occur together. And the
(18:50):
same thing with the identity andvalues, you could say, Wow, the
values of this group really,really, they're really my
values. But man, I don't feellike I belong in this room. I
like I don't I can't identifywith this group of people. I, I
do think that science can leadus out of our problems. And do
you think it has really greatvalue, but when I go into the
lab, and I'm the only woman andI'm the only woman of color, and
(19:12):
it's all white men, and theybarely talk to me, and in some
cases make fun of me? I don'twant to be I can't identify that
group, right. So they can beseparate from each other. And
one of the things the 2011article shows that all three are
important, but when you look atthem, to see what is most
uniquely predicting persistencein in the sciences, a year after
(19:35):
they graduate as undergraduates,we find that it's identity and
values. There's an article in2018 that I published, it looks
at four years after theygraduate what predicts using the
same kind of structural equationmodel. And what we found still
is that the identity is the onethat really predicts whether
people stay in STEM or not. Andin that 2018 article, we look at
(19:56):
what what leads to or what's Howdoes identity and values and
efficacy mediate therelationship between having
research experience or havingquality mentorship. So people
have high quality mentorshipthat leads them to greater
identification and valueendorsement, they're more likely
to persist. So we asked aboutthe mediation they mediate. Also
(20:17):
for research experience, whenyou have research experience at
least two semesters, and thatleads to greater identification
and value endorsement you'remore likely to go on.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (20:30):
Estrada's 2011 Study reviewed 1053
minority science students from50 universities to understand
the integration and persistencechallenges that minoritized
students face in science. Inthis study, self efficacy,
(20:50):
identity and values workedtogether and separately, to
describe diverse paths toscientific community
integration. With self efficacy,we need to believe we have
adequate capacity to contributeas we enter a new field of
study. As we persist, we appearto need to see ourselves as
(21:15):
identifying with the community.
And we need to sense that ourvalues align. Thus, in this
study, identity and valuesmattered to students' sense of
belonging, and persistencewithin scientific communities.
Given that self efficacy,identity and values are
(21:35):
intertwined, and uniquelyinfluential, how do these
factors impact belonging withinother communities? When does a
factor help us cross a thresholdto belong? What factors might
help us persist beyond aninitial acceptance?
(21:59):
What I think I remember from thearticles that is kind of
challenging that, prior to thattime, we had kind of a hyper
focus on self efficacy as beingthe defining metric by which a
person feels like they belong toa scientific community. And
you're, you're opening up thisidea that self efficacy matters.
But it also needs to have theseother things alongside it.
(22:20):
That's true.
Mica Estrada (22:21):
And if you look at the literature, most of the
research is done in the STEMarea with efficacy. Really, the
long term impacts are like amonth or two at most, most
people don't look at a year two,three years later. So you have
to really watch when you'relooking in the literature, how
far out is the outcome? So whatwe know is that the identity is
(22:41):
is an indicator for longer termchoices in the direction of
persistence for those fields.
And the efficacy doesn't havethat same, it relates, but it
doesn't, it's not the Becauseyou can you can think about it
is a person who's studyingright, you might feel like,
well, I can really do this, I'min my senior year at college, I
love it. I'm really great atthis, and then you start your
graduate program, you're like,Oh, my God, all these people are
(23:03):
brilliant, like, I don't know,if I really and your efficacy
goes down a little while, andthen you know, it might build
back up, and then you get a newjob, and it drops again, so that
efficacy is not quite as stableacross time. And so it doesn't
have that longer term. Itdoesn't always have the longer
term, sometimes it does, andsometimes it doesn't.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (23:28):
So if we flip to climate change. What I
also understand there is thatmany of the models that we have
looked at with climate changehave looked at like the
individual, the individualchoices, the individual
behavior. And I think that whenyou channel Herb Kelman and you
move into this model, you'reasking about the individual, but
you're also asking what's theindividual's relationship to the
(23:48):
social, and that the socialmatters when we're talking about
a major crisis that's facing us?
So could you also thentranslate, like, how do self
efficacy, identity and valuework in this context, when we're
talking about climate changeaction?
Mica Estrada (24:06):
I think the interesting thing for me when I
was when I was directing theclimate education partners, and
we were doing this research, waswe used it in a diagnostic way.
So for instance, with the withthis, the science that with the
STEM field, identity was often ahard one to like that was the
one that you're trying to buildoften is identity. It's kind of
(24:26):
the weaker piece thatparticularly for marginalized
people that you have to changethe environment to help build
that up. But when you got intotalking to him, we were mostly
working with leaders, decisionmakers, key influentials in San
Diego and then we did a largerkind of polling of the larger
community. What we found wasthat overall, people had
(24:51):
identity. You know, people didcare, they would say, Yeah, I'm
part of that community that'sconcerned about climate change.
But they often didn't know whatto do. The efficacy was the one
that's where the weakness was.
It's very few people that you'llfind that say, Yeah, we want to
destroy the planet, like there'sthis. That's the value of trying
to keep the planet going. It'spretty high. There's a lot of
(25:11):
disagreement on why, why theremight be climate change.
There's, you know, especially atthat time has changed a little
bit now, but there's a lot ofdisagreement on, there's a lot
of agreement on the value ofbeing good to the planet
overall. There's disagreementson why it's happening or what's
what's a threat. There's prettymuch a lot of people identify
that they are concerned,especially as we've seen things
(25:32):
change a lot more. But thatefficacy was the diagnostic
element, like people don't knowwhat to do, how, as I how, as an
individual, do I stop this fromhappening? And that's where we
have work to do. And I would sayin other areas of psychology, we
know that when we're underthreat, when we're feeling fear
when we're feeling threat,feeling like we don't know what
(25:54):
to do. accompaniment is reallyimportant community is really
important and helps us tonavigate when we're uncertain.
And so, I think with addressingclimate change communities can
be is and continues to be reallyimportant for for people to
continue to do the worknecessary to change our
trajectory right now.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (26:15):
As we face daunting challenges like
ecological collapse, it is worthremembering that prior
generations also facedchallenges that required
communal accompaniment, andsmall persevering steps. Faced
with overwhelming challenge,where do we find steps of change
(26:36):
and our belief in our capacity?
How do we converse towardconnective values and open space
for diverse identities? Howmight dignity guide our first
steps and offer a sharedgrounding of connection? Angela
Lederach's book, feel the grassgrow, witnesses ecological
(26:56):
peacebuilding practices amongcampesinos in Colombia. She and
her Colombian conversants nameaccompaniment as something that
offers perseverance, hope,grounding and social connection.
Accompaniment recastspeacebuilding as an ongoing
practice of, quote, presence andattention. Accompaniment builds
(27:21):
persistence, and sustainedaction across what might
otherwise be debilitatingchallenges of conflict.
I wanted to ask you about valuesor having read Steele and having
read Cohen and all theliterature about stereotype
(27:42):
threat. You know, there's,there's the wonderful literature
that happens, I think, around2006 or so where they start to
identify that it you know, if ateacher comes in, and they ask
students to write down theirvalues, that it seems to
mitigate stereotype threat,especially for marginalized
students, and maybe has animpact on academics later on.
(28:04):
And you've been approachingvalues as well, but maybe
slightly differently. Talk aboutthe ways in which you ask
questions about the ways inwhich people adopt the values of
a group and what you havelearned about values from a
social psychology lens?
Mica Estrada (28:19):
A great question.
Yeah, there's different peopleapproach values in different
ways. So there's a lot ofresearch where it's like, here's
a list of values and which onesthey endorse, there's been work
done, like internationally tosee what are kind of common
values for differentcommunities, different cultural
groups, there has, I think thework that you're referring to
(28:39):
has people talk about, like whatit says kind of affirming self
of like, This is who I am, thisis what matters to me. And by
having that kind of reflectionon self affirming experiences,
then that kind of buffers the, Ithink the in their terms kind of
the self, so that when you havean assault in some way or a
threat to your self image,you're kind of have a little bit
(29:00):
of lining to, to buffer it alittle bit. So what I was
looking at, when I first starteddoing this research, I actually
went to Scripps ResearchInstitute. And I had people
write down what they thought thevalues of the science community
was. And so they wrote, peoplewrote lists and lists and lists
and I took the top ones, likethe top 30. And I went back and
I had them rate, which ones werethe most important they thought
(29:24):
or most central. And then fromthat I took the top ones and I
met created that scientificvalue measure. So this was like
not what is your personal value,but what is what is your
community value? What are thevalues of your community? They
were very specific to thecommunity. They weren't like, we
value truth. It was more like wevalue spending long hours to
(29:45):
advance knowledge. You know, orwe we believe that by doing
this, this work, we can make theworld a better place. Yeah. So
it's there were kind of theselarger value statements really
of what the community agreedupon why this was noble, good
work to do. But thatdifferentiates it and it's, and
(30:07):
the questions the way I asked itwas, how much does this person
describe you? And a person, Whodoes, Who thinks da-da-da-da, as
opposed to them just generatinga value list? So, but it is
different?
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (30:21):
And am I correct? If I say that, when you
start to identify with thevalues of a community, that's
also another pathway intobelonging? Or do you not define
it that way? So
Mica Estrada (30:32):
I think it can happen one of two ways. So
community has a set a type ofvalue system, most almost every
community has a value system waseven basketball teams will have
a value system, you know, whatthey what rules they have, they
think are important and such.
You could either someone findsthe group and says, Well, they
have the same values I do,right? This this church group,
(30:52):
whatever, that that's me. Andit's like, they already carry it
with them and they go, Wow,that's I just fit like a glove.
The other way is that youactually modify yourself, right?
You start to adjust yourself sothat you then do endorse those
values. So when you hang outwith a group of people, you
might start where you never everwatch wrestling, right? Like you
(31:14):
think it's barbaric for thesepeople to wrestle, but you hang
out with these people, they'rereally fun, you spend a lot of
time with them, they tend to getlots of food and have a great
time watching wrestling overtime, your your value that, that
it's barbaric kind of changes,you start to think of it as fun
and your value system changes,so that you can fit into that
group. So I think it can happeneither way, I think you can
(31:38):
arrive where it's just acomplete fit or, or you feel
like you have to kind of moveyou move yourself over time to
endorse those values tounderstand the values to make
them feel like they're reallyyours. And then I think with the
work with STEM for me, one ofthe things I've argued about is
that the value system of theSTEM field often is very
(31:59):
individualistic. And for peoplewho come from come from cultures
that are more community based,it doesn't fit well. And that
perhaps if we want to increasepersistence and increase
inclusion, the value system ofthe disciplines actually, and
the scientific enterprise needsto enlargen so that it can be
more connected to people of manydifferent cultures.
Kevin Shorner-John (32:29):
"Stereotypes can be harmful because they
undermine the safety of groupmembership, fixate attributes
and flatten the diversity of ouruniqueness." Individuals
experience stereotype threatwhen they encounter difficulty
in a situation that hasassociated stereotypes. Claude
Steele, notes stereotype threatcan increase doubt, uncertainty,
(32:54):
and have a detrimental effect onperformance. To counter
stereotype threat, Cohen Steeleand others developed a kind of
values affirmation methodology.
When teachers ask students abouttheir values, this appears to
communicate a desire to know astudent with greater depth and
individuation than thelimitations of stereotype. "A
(33:16):
2006 study by Cohen found thatvalues affirmed minoritized
students demonstrated greateracademic resilience than a
control condition as they cameupon challenging classroom
assignments. In follow upstudies, this treatment effect
appeared to have lasted as longas two to nine years.
(33:39):
Minoritized students are thoselikely to question their
belonging in a majority contextwere most impacted." As Estrada
notes, her approach to values isdifferent. Drawing on the work
of Schwartz et al in theportrait value questionnaire,
(34:00):
Estrada asked participants aboutthe degree to which they felt
similar to someone who, as anexample, "thinks discussing new
theories and ideas isthrilling," and other scientific
value prompts. What I findfascinating about the totality
of values work is the connectiveforce of our beliefs and
(34:24):
valuations. With values, we cometo be known and individuated.
And we connect with othersthrough a shared sense of what
matters. Donna Hicks dignitymodel seeks to find the root of
our most foundational valuesabout universal dignity. Dignity
(34:46):
is a value that can connect usacross boundary lines and open
channels of listening to theworth and value of each human
being. Mica Estrada took thiswork of dignity and translated
it into the work of affirmationsor kindness. Estrada defines
(35:06):
kindness, quote, "as an act orquality of action that conveys
in subtle and sometimes obviousways, respect for the dignity of
another person." Whether held inthe micro expression of a tone
of voice or in the macrogestures of welcome,
(35:26):
affirmations build identity andbelonging within spaces that
might otherwise be sites ofuncertainty or threat.
So, kindness, so, in your 2018article, you recognize that much
of the discourse on persistencehas focused on individual
(35:47):
characteristics like grit, goalsand determination. And that when
the social is considered, it'susually considered in a deficit
term, and in terms of maybethreats or aggression. And so
what I think I understand isthat you're you're arguing for
for another dimension, thatthere is a social element that
is affirming, and it can bemicro and macro. So would you
(36:09):
introduce kindness to us, and Ialso want to get to how you tie
kindness to dignity. But I willlet you start by introducing
kindness to us and where it fitsin this in the whole picture.
Mica Estrada (36:21):
Yeah, so as I was doing the research on the
tripartite integration model ofsocial influence, I think what
where it leads you naturally is,how would the environment, the
social context of disciplines ofacademia, how would it need to
change in order for it to be aplace where people want to stay?
(36:45):
That's really, I think, whatdrew me over into thinking about
what is it that is making peoplenot integrate into their
discipline communities. And thatreally led me to the concept of,
of kindness, which, for me, Idefined it as an act that
affirms the dignity of anotherperson. It's an action that
(37:08):
it's, I think, dignity, havingour dignity is really important.
But the action of supportinganother person affirming another
person's dignity, I think, isthe act of kindness. And when
kindness, when we experiencekindness, a piece of our, we
feel as if we are being affirmedin some way as a human. And so
that's where that's where itbegan. And I wrote that article.
(37:31):
And the way I described it in, Ididn't put in the article, when
I talk about it, I think aboutlike a garden. And in a garden,
if you have a fruit, fruits andthings that you've planted, if
you look at it, and you lookwhere the weeds grow, the weeds
always grow in the places wherehealthy plants are not growing.
So a lot of times when we'reapproaching diversity,
(37:53):
inclusion, and equity, and we'retalking about racism, and
prejudice, and discriminationand stereotype threat, all of
those things that we're talkingabout are like, how do we get
the how do we get all the weedsout? Right? How do we get all
the weeds out? And one of thethings I was taught was to plant
densely healthy plants. Sothere's less space for the for
(38:14):
the weeds to grow. So what doesthat mean, to grow, to grow
things that are healthy? That tome is the micro and macro
affirmations, that is kindness,those are the things if that is
really growing in an environmentin a social environment, you
have these positive thingshappening, there's less space
(38:36):
for all the negative stuff to becoming up. So yes, let's pull
out racism, let's pull outdiscrimination, let's pull out
all of those things. But at thesame time, let's plant stuff
that's healthy into ourenvironments, and really nurture
that so that there's less spacefor all those things to come
back again. And I think a lot oftimes, we don't do that piece.
(38:57):
And so it just comes back inanother form.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (39:02):
Your 2019 Study fascinated me. It's almost
like it's a three partstructure. In one graph, you had
scientific self efficacy, andthen intentions to persist. And
the other graph, you had microaffirmation, scientific identity
and intentions to persist. It'sa mediated model. And it's a
model on which all three needeach other. Could you talk about
(39:22):
the interdependence, macroaffirmations just by themself
aren't enough, but we need themto either build up an identity
or build up self efficacy? Yeah,
Mica Estrada (39:32):
I mean, in the context of this was
undergraduates. And so it'sexactly what you said that what
we found was that when peopleexperienced micro affirmations,
they, to the extent that thathelps to build their efficacy,
their sense that they do thescience, or to the extent that
it helps them to build a senseof identity as a scientist, then
they're more likely to persist.
And I think that that's justbecause you need those the
(39:53):
identity and you need theefficacy. They're essential. For
persisting, this is really kindof a precursor in some ways to
the kindness work, because itwas an attempt to see like, what
is it in the social environmentthat helps to produce and
elevate and help people to, togain those elements that are
necessary for integration intotheir community. I've now have a
(40:16):
research project that's we'reabout ready to submit it, where
we actually ask about kindnessdirectly. And we use Donna
Hicks' measure. So we used Iwent to Donna's work on dignity.
And in the 2018 article, Italked about the measurement, a
potential measurement forkindness. But we actually did
(40:36):
it. So among academics, mostlyfaculty members, we ask them at
how much do they receivekindness using those kinds of 10
elements from Donna's work? Andthen how much do they act in a
way that's kind in their world,in their work world? And then we
also measured institutionalidentity, how much do they
(40:56):
identify with the institutions,their well being and their
stress levels. And what we foundwas that when people receive
kindness, they're more likely toidentify with their
institutions. And then they'remore likely to have better
wellbeing and lower stress. Butacting in a kind way didn't have
(41:17):
that relationship at all. So itreally had to do with how much
they felt they were receiving.
And I think that that has to dobecause if you're giving if you
feel like you're really kind ofno one's kind back to you, that
is not that does not, not sohelpful, that this is a study
that's really done with faculty,thinking about academia as a
(41:37):
work environment, and just howimportant that receiving
kindness, having our dignitiesaffirmed, is really important to
building up a sense of identitywithin the institution. And then
there's outcomes that are goodwith that.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (41:54):
If if we think about this being an
audience of peacebuilders,music, teachers, other kinds of
teachers, you know, most of yourexpertise has been in scientific
forms of community. But what arethe pieces of this that we
should be asking about as wethink about diversity, equity,
inclusion and belonging in somany places where there may be
(42:16):
communities that don't feel aswelcomed? And how do you build a
more expansive community?
Mica Estrada (42:21):
Yeah, I think you go back to some of the work of
Donna Hicks. And when she talksabout dignity, the way that we
operationalized it in terms ofreceiving kindness is, is do you
feel free to express yourauthentic self without being
negatively judged? Wouldn't thatbe great - that your efforts and
(42:42):
thoughtfulness and talents arepositively recognized? You feel
concerned and experienceexperiences were acknowledged as
valid, others convey you wereincluded, others actions made
you feel safe with them, youwere treated fairly, your
choices were respected, othersmade an effort to understand
you, you're given the benefit ofthe doubt, which is often
(43:02):
lacking when we're working withpeople who we have conflict
with. And you receive an apologywhen your dignity felt violated.
Those are the way that we'vebeen measuring kindness, really
building on Donna's work. But Ithink that those are central to
any type of environment wherewe're trying to communicate,
whether we have differences orsimilarities. I think that I'm
(43:24):
Associate Dean for DiversityInclusion outreach in the School
of Nursing at UCSF, and werecently have had difficulties I
guess, with differentcommunities in both regard to
the the war in Gaza. And, and wehave people from all sides,
right within our community whoare feeling hurt. And I came
(43:46):
back to looking at these becauseI thought, okay, we, regardless
of what is happening, and howmuch pain people are feeling,
our is our community receivingthis, from the Leadership isn't
receiving this from from ourcommunity, is their dignity is
still being held. And so. So Ithink when we're doing work in
(44:06):
conflict resolution spaces,these are things to train
towards, right are these thingshere? Are they not here? And if
they're not here, how do we, howdo we ensure they're here
because I know you can talkabout differences without
violating people's dignity. Youcan be very angry at a person
without violating someone'sdignity, doesn't mean that
you're in complete alignment.
And I think same, the same thingis kindness, right? We can treat
(44:28):
people in a kind way. Even ifwe're not agreeing with them. We
don't have to annihilate whothey are in the process of it.
So we're always gonna havedifferences with each other.
This is part of the humancondition, that how we deal with
our communications when we havethose differences, is really
(44:49):
central to what kind ofcommunity and planet we're going
to have and I'll add this. A lotof academia was established
through people who werecolonizers, and the education
system was structured to reallydisassemble the heart from the
(45:09):
head, you're not going to beable to enslave people, you're
not going to be able to commitgenocide, if your heart's too
connected to your head. And ourearly education system was
really landed? people beingeducated to exploit the planet
and exploit people. So,kindness, if you are too kind,
(45:30):
you are not going to be able todo those types of things. So our
education system pulled apartthat heart and the head. And
really the work on kindness forme is like how do we remember to
connect, reconnect these things,and to recognize that this kind
of colonized mindset is actuallydestroying us, it makes us hurt
each other and it makes us hurtour planet. And we don't have
(45:53):
space anymore for that. So it's,it's a paradigm shift in our
education system to think thatkindness will really matter, in
how we treat each other, how weeducate each other, how we work
with each other. And it'sdissembling or taking apart, a
legacy that was really built onexploitation.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (46:19):
At the closure of his book on
belonging, Cohen writes, quote,"it may seem unrealistic to
expect that teachers should lovetheir students. But the more I
delve into the research onteaching, the more it seems to
converge on the importance oflove, of faith we choose to have
in the inherent worth, anddignity of another human being.
(46:45):
Stereotypes undermine thisfaith, constricting our hearts,
blinding us to one another'sfull humanity." The scholarship
of Mica Estrada and Donna Hicksoffers pathways of connection,
kindness, affirmation andbelonging. As we utter the
(47:05):
words, we've been waiting foryou, we cross thresholds of
doubt, to enter doors ofkindness and welcome. May we
come to believe in our capacity,and illuminate inner lights of
individuality in a shared glowof community. A poem taken from
(47:28):
the language and stories of thistwo part podcast
may dignity be our garden, tothe unfolding of close rows of
possibility, of capacity for theseeds of the next generation of
kindness. May belonging be ourguide of below to entangled
(47:52):
roots and nurturance of sharedabundance. And when the
vulnerability of separationbecomes too much a reality, may
we be reminded, we are all soil,partnering nutrients of
marvelous diversity,interconnection, a rooted
(48:16):
embrace, belonging, and dignity.
Special thanks to Dr. MicaEstrada and Dr. Donna Hicks for
their time in producing thispodcast. Our episode webpage
contains an extensive referencelist of some of Dr. Estrada's
(48:38):
scholarship. As a startingpoint, I highly recommend her
2018 article with colleagues onthe influence of affirming
kindness and community onbroadening participation in STEM
career pathways. This episodefrequently pulls from the work
of Claude Steele's WhistlingVivaldi and Geoffrey Cohen's
(48:59):
text on belonging. Also found onour website. Dr. Hicks books on
dignity are published by YaleUniversity Press her 2,021/10
Anniversary Edition, Dignity,Its essential role in resolving
conflict is a must read onelements and constructions of
dignity. Her 2018 book leadingwith dignity, how to create a
(49:24):
culture that brings out the bestin people is an essential book
for fostering practices ofleadership, that center the
flourishing of dignity. This isthe music and peacebuilding
podcast hosted by KevinShorner-Johnson. At
Elizabethtown college we host aMaster of Music Education, with
an emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
(49:48):
at music peacebuilding.com
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.