September 3, 2022 • 56 mins
Samul nori represents a modern percussion genre of four things - the changgo, buk, k’kwaenggwari , and ching. Originally known as p’ungmul and nongak this genre was transformed as dynamic as it entered concert spaces. Comprised of karak that dynamically shift weight and feel, this genre represents the balance of Yin and Yang and alignments with hohŭp, or the breath. Katherine In-Young Lee investigates the rhythmic form of Yŏngnam nongak and how a sectional rhythmic form might invite global encounters, breaking down cultural barriers, and performing a “unification of difference” that is central to peace. The episode features recordings from the Minnesota-based Shinparam.
The Music & Peacebuilding Podcast is hosted by Kevin Shorner-Johnson at Elizabethtown College. Join our professional development network at www.musicpeacebuilding.com - thinking deeply we reclaim space for connection and care.
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Katherine In-Young Lee (00:00):
I think it's in this context that people
started to pay attention to thismusic. And you know, it was the
first time that they werelistening to this percussion
music from from South Korea. Itwas very exciting. It was
energetic, I would say dynamic.
And you know, for many of thepeople who who first listened to
this, you know, they were kindof captivated. I'm really
(00:22):
interested in that moment whenit moves from just you know,
appreciation musicalappreciation to actual musical
transformation and activeembodiment trying to learn how
to play these rhythms.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:38):
You are listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at musicpeacebuilding.com Exploring
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imagination.
Through research and story.
Katherine In-Young Lee isintrigued by how analyses of
(00:59):
sound and music can offerreappraisals of past events and
contemporary cultural phenomena.
She has explored various typesof Sonic evidence from the
politicized drumming of dissentto the audible dimensions of a
nation branding campaign. Her2018 book, Dynamic Korea and
Rhythmic Form from WesleyanUniversity Press explores how
(01:20):
rhythm based percussions fromSouth Korea became a global
music genre. This book wasrecently recognized with the
2019 Bela Bartok Award forOutstanding ethnomusicology,
from the ASCAP foundation DeemsTaylor/Virgil Thompson awards.
Lee's research on the role ofmusic at scenes of protests
(01:43):
during South Korea'sdemocratization movement was
awarded the Charles Seeger prizeby the Society for
ethnomusicology and the MartinHatch award by the Society for
Asian music. She has publishedin ethnomusicology, the Journal
of Korean Studies and theJournal of Korean traditional
Performing Arts. Thisconversation explores samul
(02:07):
nori, dynamism, cross culturalcuriosity, and notions of how we
represent ourselves in unity anddifference.
While this podcast was inproduction, Joo Jay-youn passed
away unexpectedly, Joo Jay-younwas the managing director of
Samul Nori Hannulim. Hecoordinated events arranged
(02:30):
tours to the United States andwas the emcee to the 2008 samul
nori festival. And mostimportantly, Joo Jay-youn was a
mentor, an early supporter ofour guest, Katherine In-Young
Lee. In her dissertation,Katherine speaks of writing Joo
Jay-youn in 2003, with the wishof being a translator for Samul
(02:51):
Nori Hanullim. Later, shewrites, have a two hour drive
with Joo Jay-youn as hesupported her first steps into
research. We dedicate thispodcast to the memory of Joo
Jay-youn, and the gifts of amentor. May we hold the memory,
the gratitude, the love forthose who live lives of support
(03:12):
those who champion and believein the success of others.
I Think I want to open thisinterview for the listeners
saying kind of where I want toget to and then backing up. So I
want to get to I think maybe twokey topics that are really
important for our listeners. Oneis this, this idea of dynamism
(03:34):
and this ethical dilemma that'sout there about how sometimes
you want to keep the Other thesame and not let them change.
And yet we all have thisyearning to constantly change. I
think that's an interestingtopic that comes out of your
work. And I think this the otherone that I'm really interested
in is at the end of theinterview, I want to get to the
2008 world samul nori Festival.
In one of your articles, youtalk about entrained
(03:59):
nationalism, and I'm alsointerested in trained
differences. We watch thesedifferent people come together
to make music together. Sothat's those are two places I
want to get to. However, let'sstart with maybe a brief story
for those who don't know thestory of samul nori, and I'm
interested in the story ofP’ungmul and how this agrarian
(04:19):
genre, you know, around 1978moves into an indoor space and
suddenly this new genre isbirthed, maybe could you could
introduce a little bit thatstory to us.
Unknown (04:34):
Sure. I think that in many stories of samul nori both
in Korean and an English it'skind of presented as an
overnight success story or anovernight origin story. And in
actuality, there is a longtrajectory in evolution to what
(04:57):
we can call you know, this quoteunquote birth of of samul nori
as a genre, but it really beganin 1978, with a quartet of
musicians, a quartet of malemusicians who were steeped in
Korean music and dance. And theyreally had this exploratory
(05:20):
spirit to their firstperformance at the space theater
in 1978, in February. And thisis a theater in in Seoul. And
what they did was they they tookthe kind of central rhythms from
(05:40):
another form of Koreanpercussion, music and dance
called p'ungmul, sometimes alsocalled nongak. This, you know,
this was something that waspretty large scale, it was
performed outdoors, it wasconnected with village rituals,
and, you know, farming,agriculture. But they took the
rhythms that were central tothis form of music, and dance,
(06:04):
and they performed it on theonly four instruments, the core
instruments of p'ungmul beinghourglass drum called Changgo, a
barrel drum called buk, a smallGong called K’kwaenggwari, and a
large Gong called ching. So theystreamlined it, there were four
musicians playing four differentinstruments, but taking the
(06:25):
rhythms from this p'ungmulgenre, and then playing it while
seated. So this in and of itselfwas kind of revolutionary,
because this was music that wastypically played while dancing
or standing. And, you know, thefirst performance was called
with uttari p'ungmul, and thiswas drawn from the, you know,
(06:48):
region. And, you know, it wasstreamlined in into a form that
they could perform on stage withonly four musicians. And this
happened to be a hit. And it wasboth novel and familiar at the
same time. And then that kind ofincreased the interest in this
(07:12):
exploration of Korean rhythm,and then there were other
performances at the spacetheater by this quartet. And
each time, the musicians woulddo research, they would have
different musicians join thegroup. And so through this
exploration, then they start todevelop this repertoire that
(07:33):
becomes known as samul nori,four things played or four
objects played. You know, at thevery beginning, it wasn't like
they intended to create a newgenre of music at the outset, I
think what they were reallydoing at the very beginning, was
experimenting, exploring, anddoing a lot of musical
arrangement. You know, there'san evolution of this genre over
(07:57):
time, that is very muchconnected to the performance
space in which they wereperforming and the audience
reception and the patronage, youknow, the support that they
received from the artisticpresenter Kang Joon Hyuk and Kim
Su Goon, who was the architectof the space theater. All of
(08:18):
these things kind of convergedat this moment for this genre to
kind of develop
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (08:25):
this genre. samul nori meaning to
play four things refers to abalance of two metal instruments
and two drums. Drawing upon thecomplements of Yin and Yang or
Korean um and yang. The gongs ofthe K’kwaenggwari and Ching
represent lightning and windrespectively, and the drums of
(08:46):
the Chango hourglass drum andthe buk barrel drum represent
rain and clouds. Thetransformation of the rural
outdoor genres of p'ungmul andnongak into samul nori was one
driven by a spirit of discoverywith the sonic identifiers of
heritage and place. Listen top'ungmul, recorded in rural
(09:09):
place generously provided byFirst we dance.com [music]
(10:09):
Amidst the 1980 upheavals ofKorean society and the, quote,
quiet disappearance of theirvaluable musical heritage, Kim
Duk Soo noted that the firstpractitioners were akin to
village shamans who wereadapting rhythmic forms to the
needs of contemporary people. Sothis genre was both old and new,
(10:33):
Kang Joon Hyuk, notes that asperformers moved an outdoor
rural genre of the old intoindoor seated spaces. The move,
quote, was a revelation to boththe performers themselves and
the audience alike, that ourrhythms were this diverse,
charming, exciting, andenergetic.
(10:56):
Could you introduce us to someideas about karak and the the
accessibility of a modular,somatic and rhythmic form and
how you portray these fordifferent groups around the
world that take off with these,this genre as well as other
groups around the world.
Unknown (11:12):
You know, I should mention before we get to the
transnational part that, youknow, the the group, the
Quartet, kind of becamesolidified in terms of its
membership in 1980, with themembers of Kim Duk Soo, Kim
Yong-Bae II, Lee Kwang, Soo andChoi Jong Sil. And they were
able to, you know, work togetherto develop a kind of repertoire
(11:36):
for samul nori. And, in thismove, people were interested in
the music and they also startedto imitate it themselves. So
this is where this interestingmoment happens, where the name
of the Quartet then gives kindof birth to the name of the
genre of music that is nowunderstood, as, you know, a kind
(12:01):
of representative form of Koreantraditional music. But it was
because the group never reallycopyrighted their name. And
there were other groups thatimitated this kind of
performance style and and calledthemselves samul nori as well,
that it kind of it ledeventually to the the naming of
the genre. And so, during thistime, the Quartet was performing
(12:28):
overseas, and they kind oflinked with the World Music
circuit, you know, in Europe andthe United States, also, they
performed extensively in Japan.
And I think it's in thiscontext, that people started to
pay attention to this music. Andyou know, it was the first time
that they were listening to thispercussion music from from South
(12:52):
Korea. It was very exciting. Itwas energetic, I would say
dynamic. And, and, you know, forfor many of the people who who
first listened to this, youknow, they were kind of
captivated. I'm reallyinterested in that moment, when
it moves from just, you know,appreciation, musical
(13:13):
appreciation to actual musicaltransformation and like, active
embodiment, trying to learn howto play these rhythms. I think
that's a very distinctive andunique move in the story of
samul nori. In that people arenot only, you know, fans
listening to the music, but theyactually want to learn how to
(13:33):
play this music. I mean,certainly, you could look at the
transnational spread of thismusic through just the
performance of the Quartet,over, you know, many years in
many different countries. ButI'm really interested in how
this music gets picked up bypeople who've never played
musical instruments before, whohave no connection to Korea, but
(13:58):
yet are really captivated by thesounds and also want to learn
how to play it.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (14:09):
What fascinates Katherine In-Young
Lee, is the question of why someforms invite global encounters,
while others only stimulatelimited engagement. What
stimulates the distanced Otherto move beyond consumption and
toward dialogue and performance?
Anthropologist Bob White'sconstruct of global encounters
(14:30):
speaks to engagements where aninterest becomes a catalyst, a
structure a template forsustained engagement. Samul nori
and contemporary trends likeGangnam Style, might be
exemplars where form becomes atemplate, an invitation for
action.
Unknown (14:54):
Yeah, so to get back to that point of, you know, what is
it about this music that made itgo global? Well, I think that,
you know, there's a combinationof things but but one important
reason is, is the form. Youknow, there's something about
the form of this music that isaccessible. And it kind of
(15:17):
invites participation becausethe karak, which are the
rhythmic cycles, are notincredibly hard to learn. You
know, it is a cycle that isrepeated over and over again.
But it's in the kind ofconstruction or the architecture
of these different karak in asequence that then becomes a
(15:41):
form. And that's the templatethen that you know, many amateur
music ensembles or semiprofessional ensembles would
would use to learn how to playthis music. So I see the form as
like a guide, an invitation to adeepening of awareness about how
this musical structure works.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (16:04):
Lee's book investigates the karak
within Yongnam Nongak, asexemplars of modular form and
structure. Karak are rhythmiccycles within solid muddy. That
construct interlockingrelationships between four
things played. Karak are bothelegantly simple cycles, and are
(16:25):
often endlessly complex layersof increasing density and
intensity. As rural karak movesto the concert hall, Lee quotes
Ku as noting quote,stereotypical myths about the
triteness monotony and noisyclatter of nongak have been
(16:46):
completely shattered. But wehear the rhythms that have long
lived within our minjung orpeople. This elegance has
entered into hearts today andawaken our own voice.
Unknown (16:59):
Yongnam Nongak is the piece that is most commonly
played by, you know, someidentity groups around the
world. And that was why I wascompelled to analyze it in terms
Katherine In-Young Lee (17:10):
we turn to a performance of the
of, of its structure and itsform, because it's it's
something that certainly Ilearned when I was learning
samul nori. But then I keptnoticing that other groups also,
were learning and I'm playing itand adapting it as well. You
know, there are a couple ofdistinctive karak rhythmic
(17:34):
patterns that appear in Yongnamnongak. And the the most sort of
complex one is the Kil Kunakwhich begins that, that
composition, if you will, andit's a 36 beat cycle. And the
way that it's most often taughtis in like smaller increments of
like, twos and threes. And, youknow, if you were to learn all
(17:59):
36 beats at once, it would beoverwhelming, but because of the
ways in which it's taught inthese kind of micro phrases, you
know, it is it is something thatthat one could learn with
practice. And so then you haveother karak that are then
patched together to create thiskind of form. And, you know,
(18:23):
each one is distinctive, thereisn't a repetition of a karak.
Like you don't go back to KilKunak at the very end. But what
I found interesting was, youknow, the arrangement of these
different karak to create thiskind of dynamic sense of
movement. So, one thing that youhave in the seated form of samul
(18:47):
nori is, you know, theelimination of dance, which was
central to p'ungmul. And yet atthe same time, if you listen to
samul nori, if you listen toreally good performance of samul
nori I feel that you can havethis sense of movement with what
the musicians are doing withtheir breath with how they're
(19:11):
synchronizing with one another.
And then also in terms of theformal structure as well,
because there's movement fromone cycle to the next, a groove
that might be established in inKil Kunak, that then changes
slightly with the addition of asecond karak that follows
immediately thereafter. And soyou feel this the sense of
(19:35):
dynamism I think, within withinthe composition,
Minnesota based Shinparamensemble. Listen for the
dynamism is modular structureddances between metrical weights
and rhythms with gratitude toSteven Wunrow and Shinparam for
(19:56):
generous permission to use thisrecording [music]
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (21:55):
Notions of musical expression rely on
beliefs about how we constructbeauty, often through mechanisms
of tension and release. Indeed,in Hesselink's text folklorists
Kim Inu notes that the interplayof tension or kinjang and
release iwan is the life of asound. Korean composer Hwang
(22:20):
Byung-ki [Hwang Pyonggi]explained that within Korean
aesthetics, melodies aretightened and loosened. Rhythms
also produce, stir up and unbindto enter dynamic contrasts in
volume, speed and metricalorganization. Like the opposing
forces of four things playedkinjang and iwan find life in
(22:45):
the balance and tension ofopposing and complementary
forces of nature.
So I've heard you talk abouttightening and loosening as
being key to this genre and thisidea of stir up, fasten unbind
I'm also I'm also reallyinterested, and I haven't heard
you talk about this on The KoreaSociety talk about about the
(23:06):
idea of ho-hup, if I'mpronouncing it right. But this
idea of what I think I got fromyour book is that I was seeing
people talk about the degree towhich people had their breath
aligned as being a quality aboutwhether the music was good or
not. So could you talk about theaesthetics of this genre?
Unknown (23:24):
Absolutely. So ho-hup refers to breath. And breath is
a really important concept inKorean music, and Korean dance.
And samul nori as well, I thinkthat, you know, it also is
connected to this idea ofrhythms being more cyclical,
(23:48):
having a cyclical feel to to arhythmic pattern that is perhaps
very different from how we mightthink of rhythms in western
music, or kind of the linearityof music in Western classical
music, for instance. So ho-hupis kind of embedded into samul
(24:09):
nori pedagogy, even with, youknow, the counting of han-ah-ah.
One, you know, there's there's awhole kind of embodied set of
exercises that one would learnin order to think about how to
even count that and how it'sdivided into, like, into threes,
(24:33):
and how the breath is alignedwith that. So that's a very
important pedagogical conceptthat you know, before you even
get to rhythm or a rhythmiccycle, you're you're thinking
about how your breath isconnected with what your body is
doing, and how that is also kindof connected to timing. And in
(24:54):
the early, samul nori workbooksthat is explained the concept of
Ho-hup is explained by Kim DukSoo Kim Dong won??, In Dong
Chang?? and Susanna Samstag, whotranslated it into English. So
there is this important kind ofphilosophical and aesthetic
(25:14):
element that perhaps you know isnot always conveyed to samul
nori practitioners when whenthey are learning a piece, but
it's it's definitely part of thethe pedagogical materials that
the samul nori group prepared inlike the 1990s. And it was also
connected to the workshops thatthe seminary group led when they
(25:39):
were going on tour, so not onlywould they perform in concert
halls and theaters, they wouldoften also book a workshop with,
you know, schools, high schools,or people who are interested in
learning how to play this music.
And so oftentimes, the ho-hupwas was a whole series of
(25:59):
exercises that involve the bodyinvolved breathing, and, and
thinking about how that alignedwith with the rhythm and time.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (26:12):
Katherine In-Young Lee notes that four
players become one throughhohup, or the breath. Breath
breaks the notion of time aslinear, and draws circles of
temporal respiration. Whenlinked across a group of four
things played, hohup becomesconnector in training performers
(26:34):
to each cycle and simultaneouslymaking holistic connections of
breath to body.
I feel like the next question Iwant to go out on a limb just a
little bit and see if I'm rightor not. We've talked a lot about
the accessibility of this genre.
And your book also talks aboutpinari is if I'm saying that
correct? Pinari, yes, benaughty. And what I what I think
(26:58):
I take from that is that there,in every culture, there's a
balance of insider or outsideror in the things that are very
accessible and the things thattake more time to learn to
become an insider. And what Iwhat I'm curious about is, is
this true for samul nori is thatthere's an accessibility element
to samul nori. But then there'salso this associated piece of
(27:20):
Pinari, which takes much moretime to invest, to fully
embrace. And I think that thatreally comes out later on in the
2008 samul nori festival aboutthis difference between the
accessible part and the partthat takes more time.
Katherine In-Young Lee (27:38):
Yeah, thanks for, for picking up on
that. That pinari is awonderfully complex piece that
has always been a part of thesamul nori program. Since the
1980s. It often is the verybeginning part of a program. And
(28:04):
it's very unusual in that it isvery text based, which is
contrary to the rest of theprogram, which is really
instrumental and doesn't doesn'thave text aligned with it. But I
I've always thought that thepinari deserves a book and a
dissertation unto itself,because it is such a complex
(28:26):
literary text that involvesKorean history, Korean culture,
Korean religious practice, youknow, from Buddhism, and
shamanism to also Confucianistideologies. And, and yeah,
there's also this performativeelement to it as well. But I
(28:49):
think that, you know, I writeabout pinari in my book, in
relation to the limits of samulnori's globalization, because it
is one of those pieces in thesamul nori repertory that has
not gone global. And I thinkit's because of its extreme
difficulty, you know, one wouldhave to really know the Korean
(29:09):
language in order to perform itand one would also have to be a
wonderful performer to deliverthat text, compellingly. And
it's not a piece that has beenfeatured in any of the samul
nori workbooks. So it kind ofstands unto itself, but yet it's
(29:30):
always been an integral part ofthe samul nori repertory. There
are I should say, you know, oneor two groups that I know of
that have tried it, but youknow, it's mainly Korean
students or Korean Americanstudents that have facility in
Korean language, who haveattempted it's but in general,
it's not something that that hasgone global in the same way.
(29:53):
And, you know, I think thatthat's fine. You know, it in
some ways, I think that learningthe instrumental works, say
Yongnam Nongak, or UttariP'ungmul, that can lead to an
interest in something likepinari. And then invite further
(30:15):
investigation or research intowhat that piece even signifies.
Because it's a narrative prayerfor like, it's a blessing for
all of the kind of people whoare gathered together at that
space. So there's a veryritualistic element to it. But I
think that probably a lot ofthat is missed on the first
(30:36):
encounter. But it doesn't meanthat you know, people can't dive
deeper later on. But it's it issomething that has not gone
global. And in the same way, Imean, I would say it's gone
global in the sense that it hasbeen performed on stages, but
it's not something that has beenpicked up by you know, amateur
(30:56):
samul nori ensembles just youknow, for its sheer difficulty.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (31:03):
As we craft identities, there are
parts of ourselves that areperformed, accessible and known
upon early encounters, thenthere are the parts of ourselves
that take more time, moreintimacy to know, demonstrating
care and attention to thedeepest parts of our being. As I
read Lee's book, I imaginedpinari as the intimate depth
(31:26):
that contrasts with a moreeasily known karak. Pinari is a
text based song that anointsperformance, opens gates, and
grounds what is to come withunderstandings of place,
spirituality, history andculture. Lee notes that as
pinari begins, places givencentral importance as it names
(31:49):
the history of the ChosonDynasty, local sights, and
describes the harmoniousalignment of Seoul and quote,
The Rising Phoenix of the GrandPalace, moving to placate
spirits and deities, and thencontinuing to a third section of
blessings and good fortune. Leenotes that pinari resembles a
(32:10):
Buddhist chant known as yŏmbul,as translated by Lee, the text
closes with a blessing forsincerity, quote, all the
misfortunes, all the disease,all the worries gather them up.
And we will have a sincereritual with great care today. If
a good wind blows, throwmisfortunes, diseases worries in
(32:34):
the river. This meaning takestime, linguistic skill, and is
an intimacy of performed place.
That is known only as we movedeeper to explore pinari texts
that anoint ritual andperformance.
So if we move to dynamism, andthis concept is really
(32:55):
important, because this, thisgenre is talked about as being
exciting or dynamic. So one ofyour articles, you open up this
idea of Korea as the land of themorning calm and how the how
dynamic Korea is a counterweightto this, and how it's expressed
musically. And I really wantedto to open up for the listeners
to read this quote from Lowellthat comes from your article. So
(33:17):
writing in the late 1800s, hesays, and so it came to pass
that we have here and mostremarkable phenomenon a living
fossilization, the preservationintact in this world, the law of
whose very existence is changeof the life the thought the
manners the dress of centuriesago. In the Koreans of today, we
are not only looking upon whatis strange, we're looking upon
(33:40):
what has once been and haselsewhere passed away. So we can
see this quote as incrediblytroubling, because it seems to
turn Korea and all of Koreansinto this exotic object that
needs to be displayed. And soI'm really interested in this
this narrative that samul noriis, is in some ways pushing back
against this. This thiscolonized idea of land of the
(34:06):
morning calm and how it embracesthe dynamics. So can you
introduce us as to how samulnori has an important role to
play in introducing the dynamic?
Katherine In-Young (34:16):
Absolutely.
Thanks for reading that andreading the article as well. I
was really interested in thoseearly monikers of Korea and
Korea as a unified nation backthen, being you know, the Hermit
Kingdom or the land of themorning calm and how those
nicknames were so persistent andstill exists to this day. I
(34:39):
think that Korean airlines stillhas you know, as the name of
their monthly magazine, MorningCalm. So it's still in the media
circulating today. But the waythat I introduce it in the book
and how I connect it to samulnori is in relation to a niche
and branding campaign that beganreally in in, you know, the
(35:02):
early 2000s. And it was inconjunction with the FIFA 2002
World Cup, which was co hostedby Korea and Japan. And I think
Korea, South Korea at that timewas very cognizant about
cultivating a strong andpowerful image, especially, you
can imagine, you know, inrelation to its former colonizer
(35:25):
of Japan, in Japan, colonizedKorea from 1910 to 1945. And,
and so, you know, I wasinterested in how samul nori was
utilized in this nation brandingcampaign. So it was not just,
you know, visual images, but Ithink that there was a sonic
element to it as well. You know,if you were to listen to samul
(35:49):
nori, you would have to, Ithink, agree that this is not
music that induces sleep, youknow, it's very loud. The small
Gong in particular has a verybrash tone that cuts through,
and it's music that forces youto wake up in a in a, in a
(36:13):
sense, and, and I think that wasthe appeal of, of the music and
how it kind of connected to thisidea of dynamism, which then
gets invoked in the discoursesurrounding this nation branding
campaign. And so it seemed to belike good timing for samul nori
(36:35):
because, you know, samul norihad already been around for, you
know, several years by then. ButI think 2001 you have, you know,
you have a different kind ofSouth Korean economy, and, and
also samul nori was created inSouth Korea. So there is that
element to that it's made inSouth Korea, and that this is
(36:58):
kind of a sonic representationof the dynamism of the South
Korean economy, that has made itonto the world stage that's able
to co host the FIFA World Cupwith Japan. And, and so in that
sense, I was really interestedin the association of dynamism
with with progress. And, youknow, not just you know, that
(37:23):
the sort of opposite of silencebut, but thinking about dynamism
in terms of like a dynamiceconomy, something that's
constantly evolving and changingand growing.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (37:38):
Do you sense that today, is that
language changing now with thewith a recognition of maybe the
limits of progress as we enter2022? I'm just really curious
about where that language ismoving today?
Katherine In-Young Lee (37:53):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I
think that, you know, you don'thave that nation branding
campaign, in that same form,utilizing the same dynamic Korea
words. But I think thatsomething that I've noticed in,
in the kind of tourists, tourismcampaigns and other other
(38:16):
governmental promotions is thatthere's an emphasis on Korean
rhythm, like feel the rhythm.
That's, that's something thatI've seen on on YouTube, they
have these short clips,featuring inachi?? band, and
also these dancers that that areclearly grooving to some kind of
(38:37):
Korean rhythm. Not it's notsamul nori rhythms, but but
still, there's an emphasis onrhythm, which I find
interesting. Yeah, so there is abranding going on. But it has
changed, you know, since 2001.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (38:56):
I'd like to move to this idea of maybe
entrained difference and this isa term that I'm coming up with,
but in light of what you'rewriting about. So in one
article, you talk about theentrained nationalism, that
comes about as part of thisbranding campaign. But as I read
about what you wrote about the2008 world, samul nori Festival,
(39:16):
and I was really interestedabout Canto del Cielo, and how
they were encouraged to wearAztec attire. So this this
identification that this groupneeds to wear the markers of
difference, and yet they'recoming into the space to play
the same music together. Sothat's where my entrained
difference is coming from. Soand I think it has a lot of, a
(39:40):
lot to speak of aboutpeacemaking because I hear the
rhetoric in that 2008 samul norifestival, that this is a moment
of peacebuilding as thesedifferent cultures being brought
together to make music together.
So my question is, can you speakto this moment of entrained
difference and what this lookedlike and and how entrained
difference maybe is ritualizedthrough this particular music.
Katherine In-Young Lee (40:06):
Hmm.
Yeah, that's really interestingobservation and like, I like how
you spin it from the entrainednationalism, which I think I was
referring to the samul noricheers of the World Cup. Yeah.
And the article that I wrote forJournal of Korean studies, I
(40:27):
definitely see this element ofentrained difference in the
world samul nori Festival of2008. I mean, I think that you
have to contextualize it a bit,because Kim Duk Soo, the
drumming maestro, he was reallythe primary architect of this
(40:48):
performance that had never beendone before, on this scale with
all of these different countriesplaying, or these teams from
different countries playingsamul nori at the same time. So
there was a show element to it.
And I think on a visual level,they wanted to show all of the
(41:10):
different countries that werebeing represented, right, so you
had the Mexican team, you hadthe American team, you had the
team from, from France, and soon, and so forth. And so on a
visual level, you know, thesekinds of costumes or national
(41:31):
markers then are meant todisplay to the audience, like,
the difference, like thedifferences between all of these
performers. But you know, therewas a contrived element to it,
of course, because as I learnedfrom my interviews with members
of Canto del Cielo, that it wassomething that they learned, you
(41:53):
know, on the fly, in theZocalo?? in Mexico City, and
they brought the costumes withthem, but it wasn't something
that they had learned as youngchildren, it was something that
they learned for the specificpurposes of this event. And, and
so I think that that was thatentrain difference was, you
(42:14):
know, it was cultivated by KimDuk Soo, in a way to, to show
unity, but to also showdifference. But, you know, I
think it was perhaps overdone.
Like, you know, they could haveall performed in the same samul
nori outfits. And, you know,even with their different
(42:34):
hairstyles, or the way that theylook, they would have been clear
that it was an internationalgroup of performers. But there
was this, there was this otherlevel of performing difference
that appeared in that particularperformance that I think was,
you know, designed to show boththe spread of samul nori, like
(42:57):
look how many countries somebodywent to, and also to show that
all of these different peoplecould come together and play
this music at the same time, andit would be coherent, and it
made sense.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (43:13):
Lee uses ethnomusicologist Joshua
Pilzer’s language of quote, intrained nationalism, to name
moments when, quote, Therhythmic chanting in unison
enabled the performance ofcollective identity. As Korean
World Cup soccer fans moved andchanted together, they embraced
(43:34):
samul nori rhythms, Thunderstix,and mantras like “O p’ilsung
K’oria”, and built spaces ofunity, belonging and social
identity. I layer this side byside with Lee's frequent
mentions of intentionaldifference, particularly in a
gathering of diverseinternational performers at the
(43:55):
2008 world samul nori festival.
Participants in this festivalspoke prayed and costumed in
their native tongues andcultures, demonstrating the
richness of diversity. Leewrites, quote, Where the first
and second segments of theInternational pinari celebrated
difference and the diversebackgrounds of the International
(44:16):
performers, The final segmentwith the Yongnam nongak was
designed to amplify aunification of difference. As I
sat with this notion of aunification of difference, I
reflected upon Brewer's socialpsychology construct of "optimal
distinctiveness." Brewer notesthat we might find a sense of
(44:40):
belonging when we are able tobalance the need for affirmed
similarity with individuationand uniqueness, performances of
unifications of difference, maybe rituals that enlarge
belonging and constructimaginations of peace.
(45:02):
Could you introduce this groupand what and what samul nori
means to this group, thisdiverse group of people with
very different interests?
Katherine In-Young Lee (45:10):
Sure.
shinpiden is a group that wasreally founded by Martha Vickery
and Stephen Wunrow. And they arethe adoptive American parents to
Korean children. And they arealso the producers of the Korean
quarterly. It's a newspaper thatis really like a labor of love
(45:33):
for them. That is so informativegives a lot of information on
Korean events, Korean politicsand book reviews, so on and so
forth. So they became interestedin samul nori, you know, first
through the music, but thenMartha had the idea of trying to
form a group. And, and so thegroup then consisted in the
(45:58):
early years of Korean adoptees,some American adoptive parents,
some Korean students who werestudying abroad at the
University of Minnesota, andalso people who are just
interested in the drumming. Soit was a really diverse group of
participants. And it's stillgoing on today. It has lasted.
(46:25):
Although I think the membershiphas changed drastically over the
years. I was actually working asthe overseas coordinator for
Samul Nori Hanullim in 2003. Andthen in 2004, I was asked to
name certain groups that mightbe interested in participating
(46:46):
in the samul nori kiorogi??
competition in in Korea actuallywas kind of the predecessor
predecessor of what became theworld samul nori festival in
2008. And, and so I namedsamadhi or Shinparam as the
group from the United States,although they were very kind of
(47:07):
fledgling at that time, they didend up traveling to Korea to
participate in the kiorogii??
and I think that experiencereally gave them a lot of
momentum to continue on to learnfurther. And and so they do both
samul nori and P'ungmul in thatthey do you know, a lot of the
repertoire from this Hammadibooks, but then also they they
(47:30):
can perform while standing anddancing as well. So I think
that's a group that, you know,really became interested in
Korean music through samul noriBut then deepen their awareness
of other Korean music genres,through through that experience,
and they've gone to Korea, youknow, a couple of times I think
(47:52):
Martha and Steven have gone toKorea several times. [music]
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (48:58):
Yeah, so I think my last question is just
asking you about where this hastaken you as a researcher and
where you seem to be going inthe future and what, what are
the resonances about how, howlearning and representing samul
nori has changed you as aresearcher and what new
questions are opening up foryou?
Katherine In-Young Lee (49:18):
Right. I think that my connection to
samul nori is unique in thesense that I first connected
with the group as a staffmember, and I was their overseas
coordinator in 2003 helped toplan a lot of their events
(49:42):
overseas, their 2004 US tour, Iwent on tour with the group in
2003 to Denmark a three weektour. I helped to organize
events where there wereinternational musicians who came
to Korea. I mean, basicallyanything that required English
speaking, I was I was connectedto at that point. And because of
(50:06):
that, I've been able to become apart of the samul nori
community, if you will, and thathas lasted throughout many, many
years. And in some ways, it's,you know, that's really the
basis of my connection to samulnori, you know, I know that I
did research on them, and I havea book on somebody, but I'm
(50:30):
still very much connected to thegroup and that I invited Kim Duk
Soo, and Samul Nori Hanullim,and Red Sun to perform at UCLA
in May of 2019. So Red Sun is ait's the jazz group that has
(50:52):
collaborated with seminary forover 2530 years, Wolfgang
Pushhnig??, who's Australiansaxophonist. And then also, John
Milan tacuma???, who's a basis.
They they have performed withKim Duk. Soo for a very long
time, but they had onlyperformed in Asia or in Europe.
So I was able to invite them tokind of give the samul nori/ red
(51:15):
sun premiere in the UnitedStates. And I'm also
participating on a panel that isme pan ISME panel in the summer
with Kim Duk Soo, and PatriciaCampbell, Nam-ee Lim??, Keith
Howard and Donna Kwan??. So sowe're preparing that as well
for, for the, for theconference. So I think that
(51:39):
regardless of you know, where myresearch takes me, I do have
this kind of human connection tothe group that that surpasses
any, you know, scholarlyarticles that I will produce.
But I think that, you know,perhaps the next phase of this
will be to talk more to musiceducators, and to people who are
(52:05):
interested in, you know,teaching this kind of music and
to connect them with withresources that to connect them
with people, because I do thinkit's something that could be
very exciting for students tolearn, they could learn it
relatively quickly. There's alot of online materials now that
(52:26):
one could consult. And now thereare musicians who are, you know,
in New York or in Chicago, thatthat could actually lead
workshops, you wouldn't have to,like, bring Samul Nori Hanullim,
you know, over from Korea, butthere are people who are living
in the United States who, whocould teach this kind of music.
When I was at UC Davis from 2012to 2017. I, I taught a Korean
(52:50):
percussion ensemble, and, youknow, I had to learn how to do
it actually, because I, I hadbeen a staff member previously,
so I didn't focus on on theperformance of it, but I too,
had to learn how to lead a musicensemble, and to learn how to
(53:11):
teach this to non music majors,which was pretty much the
student body of this, you know,ensemble. And and I learned a
great deal from that experience,you know, just how how do you
teach something effectively, youknow, how do you teach a rhythm
effectively? How do youintegrate that with movement?
(53:32):
How do you integrate that withthe knowledge of the culture so
it's not just, you know, thisautonomous experience of
learning the sounds but you'reactually learning about Korean
culture as well. So I think thatmy my shifts in the future will
be more about about actuallearning of it, you know, kind
(53:53):
of, I think that that's the nextphase of, of my research with
samul nori.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (54:03):
The ongoing story of samul nori
invites a story of how we mightcontinuously change, embrace
heritage, and drum our curiosityof each other. May we build
modular forms that inviteperformance and curiosity and
yet, hold pieces like the pinarithat ask us to know each other
(54:26):
yet deeper, embracing samul norimay we reflect upon colonized
language and rewrite stories ofmorning calm, with a cacophony
of dynamic energy, and a samulnori form that resists the
constraint of a singlenarrative. Samul nori is a
(54:46):
unification of the sonicdifference of four elements.
When difference is enlarged andperformed across cultural
groups. The artistic mediumopens windows to the imagination
that we might align our breath,our being, our belonging, and
our care into new communities ofpractice. Special thanks to
(55:10):
Katherine In-Young Lee for hertime and expertise and exploring
her book, dynamic Korea andrhythmic form, published by
Wesleyan press. Links to herKorea Society talk and relevant
references and recordings arefound at music peacebuilding.com
Thanks as well to StephenWunrow, Martha Vickery, and
(55:33):
Shinparam for permissions to usethe recordings in this podcast.
I highly recommend their writingand reporting of Korean
quarterly.org and following themany performances of their
YouTube channel and Facebookgroup, and thanks to Diane from
Fiverr for her time and patienceand improving the accuracy of my
(55:53):
Korean pronunciations, knowingthat I still have much more to
learn. And finally, thanks toFirst we dance.com for
permission to use the recordingof P'ungmul at the beginning of
this podcast. This is the musicand peacebuilding podcast hosted
by Kevin Shorner-Johnson. ThatElizabeth town college we host a
(56:15):
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
at music peacebuilding.com
I think it's in this context that people
started to pay attention to thismusic. And you know, it was the
first time that they werelistening to this percussion
music from from South Korea. Itwas very exciting. It was
energetic, I would say dynamic.
And you know, for many of thepeople who who first listened to
this, you know, they were kindof captivated. I'm really
(00:22):
interested in that moment whenit moves from just you know,
appreciation musicalappreciation to actual musical
transformation and activeembodiment trying to learn how
to play these rhythms.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (00:38):
You are listening to season three of the
music and peacebuilding podcast,a professional development
network at musicpeacebuilding.com Exploring
intersections of peacebuilding,sacredness, community,
creativity and imagination.
Through research and story.
Katherine In-Young Lee isintrigued by how analyses of
(00:59):
sound and music can offerreappraisals of past events and
contemporary cultural phenomena.
She has explored various typesof Sonic evidence from the
politicized drumming of dissentto the audible dimensions of a
nation branding campaign. Her2018 book, Dynamic Korea and
Rhythmic Form from WesleyanUniversity Press explores how
(01:20):
rhythm based percussions fromSouth Korea became a global
music genre. This book wasrecently recognized with the
2019 Bela Bartok Award forOutstanding ethnomusicology,
from the ASCAP foundation DeemsTaylor/Virgil Thompson awards.
Lee's research on the role ofmusic at scenes of protests
(01:43):
during South Korea'sdemocratization movement was
awarded the Charles Seeger prizeby the Society for
ethnomusicology and the MartinHatch award by the Society for
Asian music. She has publishedin ethnomusicology, the Journal
of Korean Studies and theJournal of Korean traditional
Performing Arts. Thisconversation explores samul
(02:07):
nori, dynamism, cross culturalcuriosity, and notions of how we
represent ourselves in unity anddifference.
While this podcast was inproduction, Joo Jay-youn passed
away unexpectedly, Joo Jay-younwas the managing director of
Samul Nori Hannulim. Hecoordinated events arranged
(02:30):
tours to the United States andwas the emcee to the 2008 samul
nori festival. And mostimportantly, Joo Jay-youn was a
mentor, an early supporter ofour guest, Katherine In-Young
Lee. In her dissertation,Katherine speaks of writing Joo
Jay-youn in 2003, with the wishof being a translator for Samul
(02:51):
Nori Hanullim. Later, shewrites, have a two hour drive
with Joo Jay-youn as hesupported her first steps into
research. We dedicate thispodcast to the memory of Joo
Jay-youn, and the gifts of amentor. May we hold the memory,
the gratitude, the love forthose who live lives of support
(03:12):
those who champion and believein the success of others.
I Think I want to open thisinterview for the listeners
saying kind of where I want toget to and then backing up. So I
want to get to I think maybe twokey topics that are really
important for our listeners. Oneis this, this idea of dynamism
(03:34):
and this ethical dilemma that'sout there about how sometimes
you want to keep the Other thesame and not let them change.
And yet we all have thisyearning to constantly change. I
think that's an interestingtopic that comes out of your
work. And I think this the otherone that I'm really interested
in is at the end of theinterview, I want to get to the
2008 world samul nori Festival.
In one of your articles, youtalk about entrained
(03:59):
nationalism, and I'm alsointerested in trained
differences. We watch thesedifferent people come together
to make music together. Sothat's those are two places I
want to get to. However, let'sstart with maybe a brief story
for those who don't know thestory of samul nori, and I'm
interested in the story ofP’ungmul and how this agrarian
(04:19):
genre, you know, around 1978moves into an indoor space and
suddenly this new genre isbirthed, maybe could you could
introduce a little bit thatstory to us.
Unknown (04:34):
Sure. I think that in many stories of samul nori both
in Korean and an English it'skind of presented as an
overnight success story or anovernight origin story. And in
actuality, there is a longtrajectory in evolution to what
(04:57):
we can call you know, this quoteunquote birth of of samul nori
as a genre, but it really beganin 1978, with a quartet of
musicians, a quartet of malemusicians who were steeped in
Korean music and dance. And theyreally had this exploratory
(05:20):
spirit to their firstperformance at the space theater
in 1978, in February. And thisis a theater in in Seoul. And
what they did was they they tookthe kind of central rhythms from
(05:40):
another form of Koreanpercussion, music and dance
called p'ungmul, sometimes alsocalled nongak. This, you know,
this was something that waspretty large scale, it was
performed outdoors, it wasconnected with village rituals,
and, you know, farming,agriculture. But they took the
rhythms that were central tothis form of music, and dance,
(06:04):
and they performed it on theonly four instruments, the core
instruments of p'ungmul beinghourglass drum called Changgo, a
barrel drum called buk, a smallGong called K’kwaenggwari, and a
large Gong called ching. So theystreamlined it, there were four
musicians playing four differentinstruments, but taking the
(06:25):
rhythms from this p'ungmulgenre, and then playing it while
seated. So this in and of itselfwas kind of revolutionary,
because this was music that wastypically played while dancing
or standing. And, you know, thefirst performance was called
with uttari p'ungmul, and thiswas drawn from the, you know,
(06:48):
region. And, you know, it wasstreamlined in into a form that
they could perform on stage withonly four musicians. And this
happened to be a hit. And it wasboth novel and familiar at the
same time. And then that kind ofincreased the interest in this
(07:12):
exploration of Korean rhythm,and then there were other
performances at the spacetheater by this quartet. And
each time, the musicians woulddo research, they would have
different musicians join thegroup. And so through this
exploration, then they start todevelop this repertoire that
(07:33):
becomes known as samul nori,four things played or four
objects played. You know, at thevery beginning, it wasn't like
they intended to create a newgenre of music at the outset, I
think what they were reallydoing at the very beginning, was
experimenting, exploring, anddoing a lot of musical
arrangement. You know, there'san evolution of this genre over
(07:57):
time, that is very muchconnected to the performance
space in which they wereperforming and the audience
reception and the patronage, youknow, the support that they
received from the artisticpresenter Kang Joon Hyuk and Kim
Su Goon, who was the architectof the space theater. All of
(08:18):
these things kind of convergedat this moment for this genre to
kind of develop
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (08:25):
this genre. samul nori meaning to
play four things refers to abalance of two metal instruments
and two drums. Drawing upon thecomplements of Yin and Yang or
Korean um and yang. The gongs ofthe K’kwaenggwari and Ching
represent lightning and windrespectively, and the drums of
(08:46):
the Chango hourglass drum andthe buk barrel drum represent
rain and clouds. Thetransformation of the rural
outdoor genres of p'ungmul andnongak into samul nori was one
driven by a spirit of discoverywith the sonic identifiers of
heritage and place. Listen top'ungmul, recorded in rural
(09:09):
place generously provided byFirst we dance.com [music]
(10:09):
Amidst the 1980 upheavals ofKorean society and the, quote,
quiet disappearance of theirvaluable musical heritage, Kim
Duk Soo noted that the firstpractitioners were akin to
village shamans who wereadapting rhythmic forms to the
needs of contemporary people. Sothis genre was both old and new,
(10:33):
Kang Joon Hyuk, notes that asperformers moved an outdoor
rural genre of the old intoindoor seated spaces. The move,
quote, was a revelation to boththe performers themselves and
the audience alike, that ourrhythms were this diverse,
charming, exciting, andenergetic.
(10:56):
Could you introduce us to someideas about karak and the the
accessibility of a modular,somatic and rhythmic form and
how you portray these fordifferent groups around the
world that take off with these,this genre as well as other
groups around the world.
Unknown (11:12):
You know, I should mention before we get to the
transnational part that, youknow, the the group, the
Quartet, kind of becamesolidified in terms of its
membership in 1980, with themembers of Kim Duk Soo, Kim
Yong-Bae II, Lee Kwang, Soo andChoi Jong Sil. And they were
able to, you know, work togetherto develop a kind of repertoire
(11:36):
for samul nori. And, in thismove, people were interested in
the music and they also startedto imitate it themselves. So
this is where this interestingmoment happens, where the name
of the Quartet then gives kindof birth to the name of the
genre of music that is nowunderstood, as, you know, a kind
(12:01):
of representative form of Koreantraditional music. But it was
because the group never reallycopyrighted their name. And
there were other groups thatimitated this kind of
performance style and and calledthemselves samul nori as well,
that it kind of it ledeventually to the the naming of
the genre. And so, during thistime, the Quartet was performing
(12:28):
overseas, and they kind oflinked with the World Music
circuit, you know, in Europe andthe United States, also, they
performed extensively in Japan.
And I think it's in thiscontext, that people started to
pay attention to this music. Andyou know, it was the first time
that they were listening to thispercussion music from from South
(12:52):
Korea. It was very exciting. Itwas energetic, I would say
dynamic. And, and, you know, forfor many of the people who who
first listened to this, youknow, they were kind of
captivated. I'm reallyinterested in that moment, when
it moves from just, you know,appreciation, musical
(13:13):
appreciation to actual musicaltransformation and like, active
embodiment, trying to learn howto play these rhythms. I think
that's a very distinctive andunique move in the story of
samul nori. In that people arenot only, you know, fans
listening to the music, but theyactually want to learn how to
(13:33):
play this music. I mean,certainly, you could look at the
transnational spread of thismusic through just the
performance of the Quartet,over, you know, many years in
many different countries. ButI'm really interested in how
this music gets picked up bypeople who've never played
musical instruments before, whohave no connection to Korea, but
(13:58):
yet are really captivated by thesounds and also want to learn
how to play it.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (14:09):
What fascinates Katherine In-Young
Lee, is the question of why someforms invite global encounters,
while others only stimulatelimited engagement. What
stimulates the distanced Otherto move beyond consumption and
toward dialogue and performance?
Anthropologist Bob White'sconstruct of global encounters
(14:30):
speaks to engagements where aninterest becomes a catalyst, a
structure a template forsustained engagement. Samul nori
and contemporary trends likeGangnam Style, might be
exemplars where form becomes atemplate, an invitation for
action.
Unknown (14:54):
Yeah, so to get back to that point of, you know, what is
it about this music that made itgo global? Well, I think that,
you know, there's a combinationof things but but one important
reason is, is the form. Youknow, there's something about
the form of this music that isaccessible. And it kind of
(15:17):
invites participation becausethe karak, which are the
rhythmic cycles, are notincredibly hard to learn. You
know, it is a cycle that isrepeated over and over again.
But it's in the kind ofconstruction or the architecture
of these different karak in asequence that then becomes a
(15:41):
form. And that's the templatethen that you know, many amateur
music ensembles or semiprofessional ensembles would
would use to learn how to playthis music. So I see the form as
like a guide, an invitation to adeepening of awareness about how
this musical structure works.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (16:04):
Lee's book investigates the karak
within Yongnam Nongak, asexemplars of modular form and
structure. Karak are rhythmiccycles within solid muddy. That
construct interlockingrelationships between four
things played. Karak are bothelegantly simple cycles, and are
(16:25):
often endlessly complex layersof increasing density and
intensity. As rural karak movesto the concert hall, Lee quotes
Ku as noting quote,stereotypical myths about the
triteness monotony and noisyclatter of nongak have been
(16:46):
completely shattered. But wehear the rhythms that have long
lived within our minjung orpeople. This elegance has
entered into hearts today andawaken our own voice.
Unknown (16:59):
Yongnam Nongak is the piece that is most commonly
played by, you know, someidentity groups around the
world. And that was why I wascompelled to analyze it in terms
Katherine In-Young Lee (17:10):
we turn to a performance of the
of, of its structure and itsform, because it's it's
something that certainly Ilearned when I was learning
samul nori. But then I keptnoticing that other groups also,
were learning and I'm playing itand adapting it as well. You
know, there are a couple ofdistinctive karak rhythmic
(17:34):
patterns that appear in Yongnamnongak. And the the most sort of
complex one is the Kil Kunakwhich begins that, that
composition, if you will, andit's a 36 beat cycle. And the
way that it's most often taughtis in like smaller increments of
like, twos and threes. And, youknow, if you were to learn all
(17:59):
36 beats at once, it would beoverwhelming, but because of the
ways in which it's taught inthese kind of micro phrases, you
know, it is it is something thatthat one could learn with
practice. And so then you haveother karak that are then
patched together to create thiskind of form. And, you know,
(18:23):
each one is distinctive, thereisn't a repetition of a karak.
Like you don't go back to KilKunak at the very end. But what
I found interesting was, youknow, the arrangement of these
different karak to create thiskind of dynamic sense of
movement. So, one thing that youhave in the seated form of samul
(18:47):
nori is, you know, theelimination of dance, which was
central to p'ungmul. And yet atthe same time, if you listen to
samul nori, if you listen toreally good performance of samul
nori I feel that you can havethis sense of movement with what
the musicians are doing withtheir breath with how they're
(19:11):
synchronizing with one another.
And then also in terms of theformal structure as well,
because there's movement fromone cycle to the next, a groove
that might be established in inKil Kunak, that then changes
slightly with the addition of asecond karak that follows
immediately thereafter. And soyou feel this the sense of
(19:35):
dynamism I think, within withinthe composition,
Minnesota based Shinparamensemble. Listen for the
dynamism is modular structureddances between metrical weights
and rhythms with gratitude toSteven Wunrow and Shinparam for
(19:56):
generous permission to use thisrecording [music]
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (21:55):
Notions of musical expression rely on
beliefs about how we constructbeauty, often through mechanisms
of tension and release. Indeed,in Hesselink's text folklorists
Kim Inu notes that the interplayof tension or kinjang and
release iwan is the life of asound. Korean composer Hwang
(22:20):
Byung-ki [Hwang Pyonggi]explained that within Korean
aesthetics, melodies aretightened and loosened. Rhythms
also produce, stir up and unbindto enter dynamic contrasts in
volume, speed and metricalorganization. Like the opposing
forces of four things playedkinjang and iwan find life in
(22:45):
the balance and tension ofopposing and complementary
forces of nature.
So I've heard you talk abouttightening and loosening as
being key to this genre and thisidea of stir up, fasten unbind
I'm also I'm also reallyinterested, and I haven't heard
you talk about this on The KoreaSociety talk about about the
(23:06):
idea of ho-hup, if I'mpronouncing it right. But this
idea of what I think I got fromyour book is that I was seeing
people talk about the degree towhich people had their breath
aligned as being a quality aboutwhether the music was good or
not. So could you talk about theaesthetics of this genre?
Unknown (23:24):
Absolutely. So ho-hup refers to breath. And breath is
a really important concept inKorean music, and Korean dance.
And samul nori as well, I thinkthat, you know, it also is
connected to this idea ofrhythms being more cyclical,
(23:48):
having a cyclical feel to to arhythmic pattern that is perhaps
very different from how we mightthink of rhythms in western
music, or kind of the linearityof music in Western classical
music, for instance. So ho-hupis kind of embedded into samul
(24:09):
nori pedagogy, even with, youknow, the counting of han-ah-ah.
One, you know, there's there's awhole kind of embodied set of
exercises that one would learnin order to think about how to
even count that and how it'sdivided into, like, into threes,
(24:33):
and how the breath is alignedwith that. So that's a very
important pedagogical conceptthat you know, before you even
get to rhythm or a rhythmiccycle, you're you're thinking
about how your breath isconnected with what your body is
doing, and how that is also kindof connected to timing. And in
(24:54):
the early, samul nori workbooksthat is explained the concept of
Ho-hup is explained by Kim DukSoo Kim Dong won??, In Dong
Chang?? and Susanna Samstag, whotranslated it into English. So
there is this important kind ofphilosophical and aesthetic
(25:14):
element that perhaps you know isnot always conveyed to samul
nori practitioners when whenthey are learning a piece, but
it's it's definitely part of thethe pedagogical materials that
the samul nori group prepared inlike the 1990s. And it was also
connected to the workshops thatthe seminary group led when they
(25:39):
were going on tour, so not onlywould they perform in concert
halls and theaters, they wouldoften also book a workshop with,
you know, schools, high schools,or people who are interested in
learning how to play this music.
And so oftentimes, the ho-hupwas was a whole series of
(25:59):
exercises that involve the bodyinvolved breathing, and, and
thinking about how that alignedwith with the rhythm and time.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (26:12):
Katherine In-Young Lee notes that four
players become one throughhohup, or the breath. Breath
breaks the notion of time aslinear, and draws circles of
temporal respiration. Whenlinked across a group of four
things played, hohup becomesconnector in training performers
(26:34):
to each cycle and simultaneouslymaking holistic connections of
breath to body.
I feel like the next question Iwant to go out on a limb just a
little bit and see if I'm rightor not. We've talked a lot about
the accessibility of this genre.
And your book also talks aboutpinari is if I'm saying that
correct? Pinari, yes, benaughty. And what I what I think
(26:58):
I take from that is that there,in every culture, there's a
balance of insider or outsideror in the things that are very
accessible and the things thattake more time to learn to
become an insider. And what Iwhat I'm curious about is, is
this true for samul nori is thatthere's an accessibility element
to samul nori. But then there'salso this associated piece of
(27:20):
Pinari, which takes much moretime to invest, to fully
embrace. And I think that thatreally comes out later on in the
2008 samul nori festival aboutthis difference between the
accessible part and the partthat takes more time.
Katherine In-Young Lee (27:38):
Yeah, thanks for, for picking up on
that. That pinari is awonderfully complex piece that
has always been a part of thesamul nori program. Since the
1980s. It often is the verybeginning part of a program. And
(28:04):
it's very unusual in that it isvery text based, which is
contrary to the rest of theprogram, which is really
instrumental and doesn't doesn'thave text aligned with it. But I
I've always thought that thepinari deserves a book and a
dissertation unto itself,because it is such a complex
(28:26):
literary text that involvesKorean history, Korean culture,
Korean religious practice, youknow, from Buddhism, and
shamanism to also Confucianistideologies. And, and yeah,
there's also this performativeelement to it as well. But I
(28:49):
think that, you know, I writeabout pinari in my book, in
relation to the limits of samulnori's globalization, because it
is one of those pieces in thesamul nori repertory that has
not gone global. And I thinkit's because of its extreme
difficulty, you know, one wouldhave to really know the Korean
(29:09):
language in order to perform itand one would also have to be a
wonderful performer to deliverthat text, compellingly. And
it's not a piece that has beenfeatured in any of the samul
nori workbooks. So it kind ofstands unto itself, but yet it's
(29:30):
always been an integral part ofthe samul nori repertory. There
are I should say, you know, oneor two groups that I know of
that have tried it, but youknow, it's mainly Korean
students or Korean Americanstudents that have facility in
Korean language, who haveattempted it's but in general,
it's not something that that hasgone global in the same way.
(29:53):
And, you know, I think thatthat's fine. You know, it in
some ways, I think that learningthe instrumental works, say
Yongnam Nongak, or UttariP'ungmul, that can lead to an
interest in something likepinari. And then invite further
(30:15):
investigation or research intowhat that piece even signifies.
Because it's a narrative prayerfor like, it's a blessing for
all of the kind of people whoare gathered together at that
space. So there's a veryritualistic element to it. But I
think that probably a lot ofthat is missed on the first
(30:36):
encounter. But it doesn't meanthat you know, people can't dive
deeper later on. But it's it issomething that has not gone
global. And in the same way, Imean, I would say it's gone
global in the sense that it hasbeen performed on stages, but
it's not something that has beenpicked up by you know, amateur
(30:56):
samul nori ensembles just youknow, for its sheer difficulty.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (31:03):
As we craft identities, there are
parts of ourselves that areperformed, accessible and known
upon early encounters, thenthere are the parts of ourselves
that take more time, moreintimacy to know, demonstrating
care and attention to thedeepest parts of our being. As I
read Lee's book, I imaginedpinari as the intimate depth
(31:26):
that contrasts with a moreeasily known karak. Pinari is a
text based song that anointsperformance, opens gates, and
grounds what is to come withunderstandings of place,
spirituality, history andculture. Lee notes that as
pinari begins, places givencentral importance as it names
(31:49):
the history of the ChosonDynasty, local sights, and
describes the harmoniousalignment of Seoul and quote,
The Rising Phoenix of the GrandPalace, moving to placate
spirits and deities, and thencontinuing to a third section of
blessings and good fortune. Leenotes that pinari resembles a
(32:10):
Buddhist chant known as yŏmbul,as translated by Lee, the text
closes with a blessing forsincerity, quote, all the
misfortunes, all the disease,all the worries gather them up.
And we will have a sincereritual with great care today. If
a good wind blows, throwmisfortunes, diseases worries in
(32:34):
the river. This meaning takestime, linguistic skill, and is
an intimacy of performed place.
That is known only as we movedeeper to explore pinari texts
that anoint ritual andperformance.
So if we move to dynamism, andthis concept is really
(32:55):
important, because this, thisgenre is talked about as being
exciting or dynamic. So one ofyour articles, you open up this
idea of Korea as the land of themorning calm and how the how
dynamic Korea is a counterweightto this, and how it's expressed
musically. And I really wantedto to open up for the listeners
to read this quote from Lowellthat comes from your article. So
(33:17):
writing in the late 1800s, hesays, and so it came to pass
that we have here and mostremarkable phenomenon a living
fossilization, the preservationintact in this world, the law of
whose very existence is changeof the life the thought the
manners the dress of centuriesago. In the Koreans of today, we
are not only looking upon whatis strange, we're looking upon
(33:40):
what has once been and haselsewhere passed away. So we can
see this quote as incrediblytroubling, because it seems to
turn Korea and all of Koreansinto this exotic object that
needs to be displayed. And soI'm really interested in this
this narrative that samul noriis, is in some ways pushing back
against this. This thiscolonized idea of land of the
(34:06):
morning calm and how it embracesthe dynamics. So can you
introduce us as to how samulnori has an important role to
play in introducing the dynamic?
Katherine In-Young (34:16):
Absolutely.
Thanks for reading that andreading the article as well. I
was really interested in thoseearly monikers of Korea and
Korea as a unified nation backthen, being you know, the Hermit
Kingdom or the land of themorning calm and how those
nicknames were so persistent andstill exists to this day. I
(34:39):
think that Korean airlines stillhas you know, as the name of
their monthly magazine, MorningCalm. So it's still in the media
circulating today. But the waythat I introduce it in the book
and how I connect it to samulnori is in relation to a niche
and branding campaign that beganreally in in, you know, the
(35:02):
early 2000s. And it was inconjunction with the FIFA 2002
World Cup, which was co hostedby Korea and Japan. And I think
Korea, South Korea at that timewas very cognizant about
cultivating a strong andpowerful image, especially, you
can imagine, you know, inrelation to its former colonizer
(35:25):
of Japan, in Japan, colonizedKorea from 1910 to 1945. And,
and so, you know, I wasinterested in how samul nori was
utilized in this nation brandingcampaign. So it was not just,
you know, visual images, but Ithink that there was a sonic
element to it as well. You know,if you were to listen to samul
(35:49):
nori, you would have to, Ithink, agree that this is not
music that induces sleep, youknow, it's very loud. The small
Gong in particular has a verybrash tone that cuts through,
and it's music that forces youto wake up in a in a, in a
(36:13):
sense, and, and I think that wasthe appeal of, of the music and
how it kind of connected to thisidea of dynamism, which then
gets invoked in the discoursesurrounding this nation branding
campaign. And so it seemed to belike good timing for samul nori
(36:35):
because, you know, samul norihad already been around for, you
know, several years by then. ButI think 2001 you have, you know,
you have a different kind ofSouth Korean economy, and, and
also samul nori was created inSouth Korea. So there is that
element to that it's made inSouth Korea, and that this is
(36:58):
kind of a sonic representationof the dynamism of the South
Korean economy, that has made itonto the world stage that's able
to co host the FIFA World Cupwith Japan. And, and so in that
sense, I was really interestedin the association of dynamism
with with progress. And, youknow, not just you know, that
(37:23):
the sort of opposite of silencebut, but thinking about dynamism
in terms of like a dynamiceconomy, something that's
constantly evolving and changingand growing.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (37:38):
Do you sense that today, is that
language changing now with thewith a recognition of maybe the
limits of progress as we enter2022? I'm just really curious
about where that language ismoving today?
Katherine In-Young Lee (37:53):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I
think that, you know, you don'thave that nation branding
campaign, in that same form,utilizing the same dynamic Korea
words. But I think thatsomething that I've noticed in,
in the kind of tourists, tourismcampaigns and other other
(38:16):
governmental promotions is thatthere's an emphasis on Korean
rhythm, like feel the rhythm.
That's, that's something thatI've seen on on YouTube, they
have these short clips,featuring inachi?? band, and
also these dancers that that areclearly grooving to some kind of
(38:37):
Korean rhythm. Not it's notsamul nori rhythms, but but
still, there's an emphasis onrhythm, which I find
interesting. Yeah, so there is abranding going on. But it has
changed, you know, since 2001.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (38:56):
I'd like to move to this idea of maybe
entrained difference and this isa term that I'm coming up with,
but in light of what you'rewriting about. So in one
article, you talk about theentrained nationalism, that
comes about as part of thisbranding campaign. But as I read
about what you wrote about the2008 world, samul nori Festival,
(39:16):
and I was really interestedabout Canto del Cielo, and how
they were encouraged to wearAztec attire. So this this
identification that this groupneeds to wear the markers of
difference, and yet they'recoming into the space to play
the same music together. Sothat's where my entrained
difference is coming from. Soand I think it has a lot of, a
(39:40):
lot to speak of aboutpeacemaking because I hear the
rhetoric in that 2008 samul norifestival, that this is a moment
of peacebuilding as thesedifferent cultures being brought
together to make music together.
So my question is, can you speakto this moment of entrained
difference and what this lookedlike and and how entrained
difference maybe is ritualizedthrough this particular music.
Katherine In-Young Lee (40:06):
Hmm.
Yeah, that's really interestingobservation and like, I like how
you spin it from the entrainednationalism, which I think I was
referring to the samul noricheers of the World Cup. Yeah.
And the article that I wrote forJournal of Korean studies, I
(40:27):
definitely see this element ofentrained difference in the
world samul nori Festival of2008. I mean, I think that you
have to contextualize it a bit,because Kim Duk Soo, the
drumming maestro, he was reallythe primary architect of this
(40:48):
performance that had never beendone before, on this scale with
all of these different countriesplaying, or these teams from
different countries playingsamul nori at the same time. So
there was a show element to it.
And I think on a visual level,they wanted to show all of the
(41:10):
different countries that werebeing represented, right, so you
had the Mexican team, you hadthe American team, you had the
team from, from France, and soon, and so forth. And so on a
visual level, you know, thesekinds of costumes or national
(41:31):
markers then are meant todisplay to the audience, like,
the difference, like thedifferences between all of these
performers. But you know, therewas a contrived element to it,
of course, because as I learnedfrom my interviews with members
of Canto del Cielo, that it wassomething that they learned, you
(41:53):
know, on the fly, in theZocalo?? in Mexico City, and
they brought the costumes withthem, but it wasn't something
that they had learned as youngchildren, it was something that
they learned for the specificpurposes of this event. And, and
so I think that that was thatentrain difference was, you
(42:14):
know, it was cultivated by KimDuk Soo, in a way to, to show
unity, but to also showdifference. But, you know, I
think it was perhaps overdone.
Like, you know, they could haveall performed in the same samul
nori outfits. And, you know,even with their different
(42:34):
hairstyles, or the way that theylook, they would have been clear
that it was an internationalgroup of performers. But there
was this, there was this otherlevel of performing difference
that appeared in that particularperformance that I think was,
you know, designed to show boththe spread of samul nori, like
(42:57):
look how many countries somebodywent to, and also to show that
all of these different peoplecould come together and play
this music at the same time, andit would be coherent, and it
made sense.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (43:13):
Lee uses ethnomusicologist Joshua
Pilzer’s language of quote, intrained nationalism, to name
moments when, quote, Therhythmic chanting in unison
enabled the performance ofcollective identity. As Korean
World Cup soccer fans moved andchanted together, they embraced
(43:34):
samul nori rhythms, Thunderstix,and mantras like “O p’ilsung
K’oria”, and built spaces ofunity, belonging and social
identity. I layer this side byside with Lee's frequent
mentions of intentionaldifference, particularly in a
gathering of diverseinternational performers at the
(43:55):
2008 world samul nori festival.
Participants in this festivalspoke prayed and costumed in
their native tongues andcultures, demonstrating the
richness of diversity. Leewrites, quote, Where the first
and second segments of theInternational pinari celebrated
difference and the diversebackgrounds of the International
(44:16):
performers, The final segmentwith the Yongnam nongak was
designed to amplify aunification of difference. As I
sat with this notion of aunification of difference, I
reflected upon Brewer's socialpsychology construct of "optimal
distinctiveness." Brewer notesthat we might find a sense of
(44:40):
belonging when we are able tobalance the need for affirmed
similarity with individuationand uniqueness, performances of
unifications of difference, maybe rituals that enlarge
belonging and constructimaginations of peace.
(45:02):
Could you introduce this groupand what and what samul nori
means to this group, thisdiverse group of people with
very different interests?
Katherine In-Young Lee (45:10):
Sure.
shinpiden is a group that wasreally founded by Martha Vickery
and Stephen Wunrow. And they arethe adoptive American parents to
Korean children. And they arealso the producers of the Korean
quarterly. It's a newspaper thatis really like a labor of love
(45:33):
for them. That is so informativegives a lot of information on
Korean events, Korean politicsand book reviews, so on and so
forth. So they became interestedin samul nori, you know, first
through the music, but thenMartha had the idea of trying to
form a group. And, and so thegroup then consisted in the
(45:58):
early years of Korean adoptees,some American adoptive parents,
some Korean students who werestudying abroad at the
University of Minnesota, andalso people who are just
interested in the drumming. Soit was a really diverse group of
participants. And it's stillgoing on today. It has lasted.
(46:25):
Although I think the membershiphas changed drastically over the
years. I was actually working asthe overseas coordinator for
Samul Nori Hanullim in 2003. Andthen in 2004, I was asked to
name certain groups that mightbe interested in participating
(46:46):
in the samul nori kiorogi??
competition in in Korea actuallywas kind of the predecessor
predecessor of what became theworld samul nori festival in
2008. And, and so I namedsamadhi or Shinparam as the
group from the United States,although they were very kind of
(47:07):
fledgling at that time, they didend up traveling to Korea to
participate in the kiorogii??
and I think that experiencereally gave them a lot of
momentum to continue on to learnfurther. And and so they do both
samul nori and P'ungmul in thatthey do you know, a lot of the
repertoire from this Hammadibooks, but then also they they
(47:30):
can perform while standing anddancing as well. So I think
that's a group that, you know,really became interested in
Korean music through samul noriBut then deepen their awareness
of other Korean music genres,through through that experience,
and they've gone to Korea, youknow, a couple of times I think
(47:52):
Martha and Steven have gone toKorea several times. [music]
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (48:58):
Yeah, so I think my last question is just
asking you about where this hastaken you as a researcher and
where you seem to be going inthe future and what, what are
the resonances about how, howlearning and representing samul
nori has changed you as aresearcher and what new
questions are opening up foryou?
Katherine In-Young Lee (49:18):
Right. I think that my connection to
samul nori is unique in thesense that I first connected
with the group as a staffmember, and I was their overseas
coordinator in 2003 helped toplan a lot of their events
(49:42):
overseas, their 2004 US tour, Iwent on tour with the group in
2003 to Denmark a three weektour. I helped to organize
events where there wereinternational musicians who came
to Korea. I mean, basicallyanything that required English
speaking, I was I was connectedto at that point. And because of
(50:06):
that, I've been able to become apart of the samul nori
community, if you will, and thathas lasted throughout many, many
years. And in some ways, it's,you know, that's really the
basis of my connection to samulnori, you know, I know that I
did research on them, and I havea book on somebody, but I'm
(50:30):
still very much connected to thegroup and that I invited Kim Duk
Soo, and Samul Nori Hanullim,and Red Sun to perform at UCLA
in May of 2019. So Red Sun is ait's the jazz group that has
(50:52):
collaborated with seminary forover 2530 years, Wolfgang
Pushhnig??, who's Australiansaxophonist. And then also, John
Milan tacuma???, who's a basis.
They they have performed withKim Duk. Soo for a very long
time, but they had onlyperformed in Asia or in Europe.
So I was able to invite them tokind of give the samul nori/ red
(51:15):
sun premiere in the UnitedStates. And I'm also
participating on a panel that isme pan ISME panel in the summer
with Kim Duk Soo, and PatriciaCampbell, Nam-ee Lim??, Keith
Howard and Donna Kwan??. So sowe're preparing that as well
for, for the, for theconference. So I think that
(51:39):
regardless of you know, where myresearch takes me, I do have
this kind of human connection tothe group that that surpasses
any, you know, scholarlyarticles that I will produce.
But I think that, you know,perhaps the next phase of this
will be to talk more to musiceducators, and to people who are
(52:05):
interested in, you know,teaching this kind of music and
to connect them with withresources that to connect them
with people, because I do thinkit's something that could be
very exciting for students tolearn, they could learn it
relatively quickly. There's alot of online materials now that
(52:26):
one could consult. And now thereare musicians who are, you know,
in New York or in Chicago, thatthat could actually lead
workshops, you wouldn't have to,like, bring Samul Nori Hanullim,
you know, over from Korea, butthere are people who are living
in the United States who, whocould teach this kind of music.
When I was at UC Davis from 2012to 2017. I, I taught a Korean
(52:50):
percussion ensemble, and, youknow, I had to learn how to do
it actually, because I, I hadbeen a staff member previously,
so I didn't focus on on theperformance of it, but I too,
had to learn how to lead a musicensemble, and to learn how to
(53:11):
teach this to non music majors,which was pretty much the
student body of this, you know,ensemble. And and I learned a
great deal from that experience,you know, just how how do you
teach something effectively, youknow, how do you teach a rhythm
effectively? How do youintegrate that with movement?
(53:32):
How do you integrate that withthe knowledge of the culture so
it's not just, you know, thisautonomous experience of
learning the sounds but you'reactually learning about Korean
culture as well. So I think thatmy my shifts in the future will
be more about about actuallearning of it, you know, kind
(53:53):
of, I think that that's the nextphase of, of my research with
samul nori.
Kevin Shorner-Johnson (54:03):
The ongoing story of samul nori
invites a story of how we mightcontinuously change, embrace
heritage, and drum our curiosityof each other. May we build
modular forms that inviteperformance and curiosity and
yet, hold pieces like the pinarithat ask us to know each other
(54:26):
yet deeper, embracing samul norimay we reflect upon colonized
language and rewrite stories ofmorning calm, with a cacophony
of dynamic energy, and a samulnori form that resists the
constraint of a singlenarrative. Samul nori is a
(54:46):
unification of the sonicdifference of four elements.
When difference is enlarged andperformed across cultural
groups. The artistic mediumopens windows to the imagination
that we might align our breath,our being, our belonging, and
our care into new communities ofpractice. Special thanks to
(55:10):
Katherine In-Young Lee for hertime and expertise and exploring
her book, dynamic Korea andrhythmic form, published by
Wesleyan press. Links to herKorea Society talk and relevant
references and recordings arefound at music peacebuilding.com
Thanks as well to StephenWunrow, Martha Vickery, and
(55:33):
Shinparam for permissions to usethe recordings in this podcast.
I highly recommend their writingand reporting of Korean
quarterly.org and following themany performances of their
YouTube channel and Facebookgroup, and thanks to Diane from
Fiverr for her time and patienceand improving the accuracy of my
(55:53):
Korean pronunciations, knowingthat I still have much more to
learn. And finally, thanks toFirst we dance.com for
permission to use the recordingof P'ungmul at the beginning of
this podcast. This is the musicand peacebuilding podcast hosted
by Kevin Shorner-Johnson. ThatElizabeth town college we host a
(56:15):
master of music education withan emphasis in peacebuilding.
thinking deeply we reclaim spacefor connection and care. Join us
at music peacebuilding.com
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