S4:E7: Redefining Gender Roles and Addressing Men's Mental Health (with Elise Micheals)

Ever asked yourself why men often bottle up their feelings? Does it have anything to do with societal expectations and traditional gender roles? You're not alone. Join me, Chantée Christian, and men's mental health guru, Elise Micheals, as we break down the complexities of men's mental health, particularly the obstacles they face in asking for help. Elise, using her vast experience, gives an enlightening perspective on how societal conditioning has forced men into silence.

We delve into the intriguing world of gender roles and power dynamics, focusing on scenarios where women out-earn their partners. You'd be surprised at how this stirs up feelings of competition, insecurity, and even emasculation in men. Elise and I offer tangible solutions on how both genders can learn to support each other emotionally and mentally, defying traditional gender roles.

We illustrate how childhood trauma can shape our adult relationships and behaviors in unexpected ways. We emphasize the power of self-awareness in dealing with triggers and miscommunications. Tune in and let's redefine the dynamics between men and women, one conversation at a time.
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More About Elise: Elise Micheals is a trauma-informed men's coach who helps men find purpose and passion again by healing subconscious trauma. Over the years she has worked with hundreds of men to understand the struggles they go through and the way they learn best to offer a logical, actionable way of healing, specifically for them. It's her greatest mission to help change the way the world sees men's mental health so the next generation of men doesn't have to suffer.

Connect with Elise via Instagram | LinkedIn | Website

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How are you supporting the men in your life?
Men, what does support look like for you?
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dynamics between women and men.
Hi Elise, how are you doing?

(00:39):
I'm doing so well.
How are you doing?
I am doing well.
I'm so glad to see you.
I'm happy to be here.
So, before we get too deep intoour conversation, why don't you
tell the people a little bitabout yourself?

Elise Micheals (00:54):
My name is Elise Micheals.
I'm a men's mental health coach.
I've been for the last fewyears and I help men find their
purpose and passion again byhealing subconscious drama.

Chantée Christian (01:04):
I love it and you joined me on my TV show.

Elise Micheals (01:08):
I did yes, we dove deep into it on the show
and it was so awesome to divedeep into that with you and see
you in person and talk aboutthat stuff.

Chantée Christian (01:16):
I know I'm always complaining about social
media just because it's easy,but I'm really always
complaining about social mediaand yet there are so many gyms
on social media and you are oneof those gyms that I found, and
I'm just so happy for you to bejust a part of this journey with
me.
So I'll go ahead and get thatout now before I get to the end.

(01:37):
So I just wanted to say thankyou.

Elise Micheals (01:39):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that.

Chantée Christian (01:41):
Yes, so all right.
So men's mental health andbeing a men's mental health
coach how did you get into it?
Like Telethmore.

Elise Micheals (01:53):
Yeah.
So I actually started offwanting to be a female spiritual
coach.
But I started my business rightbefore the pandemic and I
didn't put a tie line and putlike women's coach or anything,
but I posted videos on LinkedIn.
That's where I started mybusiness and only men reached
out to me for help.
So I thought it was super weird.
I was like how am I supposed tohelp them?

(02:13):
But what I had been studying, Iunderstood in my thought
process well, I'm not helpingmen or women, I'm helping people
heal from their pain.
Yeah, so let me give it a try,and then I found out that men
didn't have a lot of support formental health.
So I said, fuck it, why not?
Let me be the person I wasgoing to open the doors?
Yeah, whatever criticism orjudgment I get, so be it,

(02:35):
because they're asking me, soI'm going to answer.

Chantée Christian (02:38):
Yeah, and I love that because I remember
when I was going through one ofmy coaching programs, one of the
biggest things that they taughtus was you can call your
coaching whatever you want tocoach, but you're coaching
people and you're coaching themin their life, and so however
they are showing up for you iswhat you're coaching Right?

(02:58):
That's, your obligation is tohelp them move forward, help
them heal from their current andshowing them how they're
holding themselves back fromtheir future.
Yeah, I love that.
So you said something that,like it, just tingles in my ear
every time I hear it.
You say that men don't feelsupported and that they

(03:21):
obviously are being like I needsome help, I want some help.
And so what does support formen look like?
Oh, that's such a beautifulquestion.

Elise Micheals (03:32):
A lot of men need support so badly.
And when you say, what doessupport for men look like?
Even if you ask them, theyreally don't know because they
don't ask for it, because theydon't feel like they can.
So for us to say, like, what issupport for a man?
If you ask him, he really won'tknow because he's going to be

(03:53):
like I don't.
You know, I do things all bymyself, I am self-sufficient.
But deep down, support for a manthis is what I've discovered
from my coaching, and men whoare listening may disagree that
may have their own style of whatsupport looks like for them,
but what I've seen as a whole issupport for a man is really
more along the lines ofemotional and mental support as

(04:15):
opposed to like a physicalsupport system.
You know the way we're going inour feminism movement and
everything like that is likeeverything has to be 50-50.
Like I need to make 50% of themoney, you need to do 50% of the
chores.
And what I think people arereally losing sight of is that
partnership is not we do 50% ofevery single thing, it's we stay

(04:35):
in our zone of genius and aslong as the foundation is
covered, it's 50-50.
Right.
So men feel most supported whentheir journey is supported,
when they feel respected, whenthey feel validated and when
they feel masculine right.
But a lot of the time they'rebecoming emasculated because

(04:56):
their purpose is being takenaway or they're being
disrespected or they're notbeing appreciated for the value
that they are giving, becauseother people want to take
ownership or they want tocompete with them and they're
like what the hell?
So kind of digress there.

Chantée Christian (05:10):
But no, this is interesting because, as you
were talking, I'm thinking.
Well, the one of the thingsthat's sticking out in my mind
for me is women's most right.
Part of that movement right wasto have a right for women to be

(05:30):
equal, and I put that in airquotes.
I wonder what has that done tomen over the years?
Right, because for a very longtime men were told and taught
and still are, I believe, and Icould be wrong but they are told
and taught to be the head ofthe household, and to be the

(05:52):
head of the household you haveto be the breadwinner.
But if you look at stats like,women are making more money than
men, and so how do heterosexualrelationships balance?
That imbalance is making methink.

Elise Micheals (06:10):
Yeah.
So I mean it's such a goodtopic that you bring up, because
what we teach men and what weteach women is so different.
Because we're still teachingmen the ways of the old
generation, while encouragingwomen that they can be anything
they want and they can doanything they want and in fact
they should and not to let noman take away their rights or

(06:32):
respect, which is like fairright, we were, we didn't have
rights for a long time, but it'sturned from giving women equal
rights to bashing the man andmaking him feel inferior and
making him feel like he ain'tshit and he's still gotta rise
up to meet the queen, right.
So I think we've turnedheterosexual relationships into

(06:52):
competitions where it's like nowwe both work, now we both do
household chores, now we bothtake care of the kids.
But where is the love?
Where action?
Is the partnership?
Partnership in marriagesshouldn't be based on, like,
household tasks or money.
And I'm not saying like the oldway is better, where the woman
stays home and only takes careof the children, the man makes

(07:13):
the money, and that's the way itshould be, but I'm saying that
maybe it doesn't have to be hey,I have to make as much money as
you, or else I'm less than you,right, like we need to refocus
on the partnership, the loveaspect, the passion, and like,
hey, this is actually my zone ofgenius.
I'm a woman and my zone ofgenius is I really like to work,

(07:34):
I really like to bring home thebacon, I really like to do this
, and he actually likes to takecare of the kids.
So that's how we split it upand it's not a competition,
right, Like whatever works foryou, but we've brought
competition and that emasculatesmen and it makes them feel like
, okay, what's the point of mebeing here?
Then, if you wanted me to dothis and now you don't want me

(07:54):
to do this and I don't want totake care of the kids, like, I
want to work, right, but likenow I'm being forced to do this
thing, I don't want to do withthe people that say, well,
that's just being a dad.
It's being a dad to take careof your kid, yes, but it's not
necessarily being a dad to stayhome and take care of kids,
right, like there's so manydifferent jobs that fit a person
and sort of force someone andsay this is your responsibility,

(08:17):
I think is a little bitincorrect.

Chantée Christian (08:20):
Yeah, and I think also one I wish I knew you
like 18 years ago probablywould have saved me some time.
I remember dating this guybecause when you said it it draw
a memory for me.
I remember dating this guy.
He was in the army and I hadjust gotten a new promotion and

(08:42):
I was so excited about it and Iwas telling him about it and he
was like, oh, if you get onemore of those, then I'm gonna
have to go get another job tomake the same amount of money
you make.
And I was like, well, that'snot really my problem.
So the version of me now wouldhave a little more curiosity.
From where that stemmed?
From right, because it becamean issue for us.

(09:05):
It became a huge thing.
And I was like, yo, what's theproblem?
Unless you're making threetimes as much as I am, we can't
live off of one income.
So what's the problem here?
And I say that from a realisticperspective, like I personally

(09:25):
know me and I know the thingsthat I like I like to get my
hair done, I like to get mynails done, I like to go out to
eat in my car, you like my stuff, right, people will listen and
be like she's so materialistic.
I really don't care.
I'm telling you what I like.
Okay, can I live without them?
Absolutely, do I want to.
No, and if I had a choice,would I go.
So why would I be with someonewho has a mindset that that is

(09:49):
the old way of living?
Right, it's something thatwould work.
That doesn't work for us, Idon't mind not working.
Let me be clear I don't want tobe a stay-at-home mom either
and I want to be a richhousewife.
If anyone is listening, just tobe clear Like I want a cleaning
service, I would like a chef.
I want the things.

(10:10):
I say that in a joking but yetvery serious perspective of I
think that in the midst of thistoxic masculinity, femininity,
like debate, there is this spacethat women have fought so hard
to get to, a place that they nowdon't know how to turn on the

(10:34):
empathy and to turn on theunderstanding switch that allows
them to be a safe and a bravespace for men to come to to say,
hey, this is a little bit of athing for me.

Elise Micheals (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, you 100% nailed it.
Just going back to thebeginning, men don't feel like
they can ask for support,especially from women, because
we've taught them that theyshouldn't and it's like we've
repeated this many times.
But men don't feel like theycan share their emotions and a
lot of time they are shamed bywomen because of it.
Because here is also a reallyhard reality as we've shifted

(11:10):
very into the extreme of thefeminist movement, where women
are making their own money andgetting their nails done and
feeling good about themselves,really investing in themselves.
You get to a point and men feelthis way too.
You get to a point where youhave this lifestyle and you
don't want to leave thelifestyle because you're like,
if I could do this by myself,why would I then go backwards by

(11:31):
partnering with what I partnerwith someone I want to elevate?
And for men, where theirvalidation and their masculinity
and their identity is tied intohow much they make.
A woman who makes more thanwhat they can provide does
intimidate them.
It does upset them because theyfeel automatically emasculated
by it, because they feel like Icannot provide for you with the

(11:54):
lifestyle that you have rightLike they can't afford it.
So then some men who are notaware will try to talk down to
you to make you feel like youshould be doing less or you
shouldn't be working for it,because then if you drop down a
level, then they can all of asudden be the man again.

Chantée Christian (12:09):
Yeah.

Elise Micheals (12:10):
And I think what men and women need to
understand is that just becausewomen are making more money and
have that lifestyle doesn't meanthat they're trying to
emasculate men.
But they're not going to comedown.
And so it kind of forces men toeither, if they're too scared
to run away from women, or torise up, like some men are
encouraged by it and see it as achallenge and elevate
themselves and say, listen, Isee you as a growing woman and

(12:32):
I'm a growing man and you makemore than me now.
But, like, it's not acompetition, but you inspire me
to elevate my own purpose and mypassion to rise above.
And then you partner togetherand that's how you come into
alignment.
But it takes a strong woman anda strong man to see each
other's inspiration and notcompetition.
But exactly and I know I kind ofdigress again, but like you

(12:53):
said, with the support, likewomen are also getting in their
ego, just like men did for solong about I make my own money.
I need the best man, the bestlooking man, the best supportive
man.
And you know we're like oh,women are going into their
masculine.
I don't think we're talkingabout masculine, feminine energy
anymore, I think that we'rejust feeling the power of

(13:15):
individuality andself-sufficiency and getting so
caught up in it that we forgetwe do need each other.
Yeah, like, even though you'rea woman who makes all this, you
know you make your own money andyou get to do nice things for
yourself.
Like we all desire deeplystrong partnership Absolutely.
And, like you said, I wouldlove to be a rich housewife.

(13:35):
I would translating into Iwould love to be taken care of.
I would love to have a man whocan support me, but, translated
even further, I would love tohave a man who can support me
more than I can support myself,not less than I can support
myself.

Chantée Christian (13:51):
Exactly.

Elise Micheals (13:52):
And most men haven't been able to figure out.
How can I support these strongwomen more than they can support
themselves?
They just want it to go back tothe old days, where women can't
support themselves, so thatthey can once again, with where
they're at, you know, be morepowerful, be stronger.

Chantée Christian (14:09):
There's something about that power shift
right and it's a power dynamicbecause even when in
relationships like you weretalking about bringing back the
love and the passion, right, andso when thinking about that
love and that passion andbringing it back as a unit into
the household and as a unit, oneof the things that I think

(14:31):
about is how do we do that in ahealthy way?
Right, Because I think that it'sreally important for people to
understand and to hear that evenwhen you're in a healthy
relationship, stuff comes up,Like if you're in a real good
one, some real good shit willcome up right and you can.

(14:51):
You really need someone to helpyou navigate it, and that's not
necessarily your partner, right, it's a coach, it's a therapist
, it's a tribe of healers ofwhatever sort you believe in and
are willing and able to get tobecause it's the yielding to the

(15:12):
relationship.
And what does that look likewhen you have passion and you
have two people that are likewe're not in competition, but
we're both inspiring each otherto go do it?
Because to me that's sexy ashell.
Like you're going to go do yourthing, let's go do it.
Like, how can I support you?
How can I do it.
When you said that, that's whatcame to mind for me.

Elise Micheals (15:35):
Yeah, absolutely .
I mean, and I think it's theshift to where a lot of men are
asking how can I please thewomen of today, how can I, as a
man, support and be an ally ofthe women of today?
And it's a really greatquestion.
But we're going about it in theform of like, how can I serve
them?

(15:55):
And I think the best way thatmen and women can serve each
other is by serving themselvesin their own divine essence and
their own purpose.
Because a man who is focused onhis own goals and like a non ego
way, right, like, not I'marrogant, I'm full of myself,
but like, I love what I do, I'mmaking my money, I'm supporting
myself.
No matter what you do, youdon't have to make millions of

(16:15):
dollars.
Just like be in love with yourlife and what you do, and you
will attract a woman who is alsoin love with her life and what
she does.
And that's when you can partner.
But it's when you're so focusedon the other, like women become
like this too.
They're so obsessed with.
How can I get him to like me?
How can I impress him?
How can I do this?
And you never get the guy thatyou want.
Like that, or if you do get theguy you volunteered, I always

(16:37):
ends up being disappointedbecause you're not being
yourself and you're becomingcodependent in the way of.
My purpose is to serve thisperson or serve this gender, and
when you do that, you losesight of yourself.
And then you're not supportiveand you're so intense and you're
like why aren't you making thismuch money?
Why aren't you coming home tome, why aren't you doing this?
And it becomes so heavy Likeyou.
Just use your example.
If you're a man in the military, instead of saying, oh man, I

(17:00):
have to make three times morethan you now, or whatever.
If he was like, wow, that'sfreaking amazing, this is what
I'm doing over here, and now youinspire me, because now I want
to go to captain or want to goto this, you would have been
like, oh my God, like that's sosexy that my success inspired
you and he's still doing histhing and he's like, or if he's
like hey, I love that you'redoing this, I'm also on my own
path.

(17:21):
We may have to separate, like atthis certain point in time and
you're like man that sucks.
That's like kind of scary, butlike also I think we can work it
out, like maybe you work it outthat way.
But oh I think it's sexy becausehe's still in his lane, still
supporting you, but he's notgoing to digress from what he
wants to do and I think that'swhere a lot of men get lost is
because they want to love thewomen of today and they want to
be allies, but they're losingsight of their own power.

(17:44):
And what I want to say is likedon't lose sight of your own
power and your own progress,like you still matter.
Get out there and do what yougot to do for this planet and
you will meet a woman who ishealthy and even a strong,
independent woman like we arecan become in her feminine when
we meet the right guy, like weare so in our masculine every
day.
But listen, I would love to bea working trophy wife.

(18:07):
Listen to me.
I would love to be with apartner who's listening,
listening stable.
I don't want to be doing thisalone forever.

Chantée Christian (18:15):
You gotta be fucked up.
I never said I don't need noman.

Elise Micheals (18:18):
I mean I have definitely said that, but you
know it's like a joke, but Idefinitely don't want to be
doing this alone forever, Likethat's not the point?

Chantée Christian (18:25):
No, it's not the point.
And I remember Destiny's ChildSong Independent Women, right,
and you know it's a good concept, right, and being independent,
and I think that this is thething that like from a society.
I think that we have alteredperception in reality, because

(18:50):
being an independent womandoesn't mean being a single
woman.
Yes, being an independent womanmeans that I am self sufficient
.
It means that I have my ownthoughts.
It means that I'm able to doand be.
It does not mean that I amreliable and that I am dependent
.
Right, and there was thismisconception, this concept of

(19:12):
oh, you're so independent, whatthe fuck does that mean?
Like, I think I'm supposed tobe independent.
However, it was in those spaceswith men that weren't ready to
be with someone who had andshared the drive, right, so when
you said that, it just was likeuh, duh, yeah, absolutely Right
.
Like, and there were timeswhere I said I don't, why do I

(19:35):
need to be with you?
I could do bad by myself.
Like, what are we talking abouthere?
Right, and no one ever says Icould do good by myself.
They say I could do bad bymyself.
That's great, because we desirethe partnership and we know the
benefit of what it would looklike and be like to be alone,
right, like the goal is not tobe alone at 80.

(19:57):
The goal is to have a life tobe able to reflect on with your
person, whoever that is.
And so I just like I don't know,like I struggle with women's
mom because there wasn't a timewhere black women weren't able
to work, like we always had towork, we were always working.

(20:20):
I would like there to be areverse of this movement where
we worked but we also had thesame rights, right, and so there
was always this challenge.
And so when I think aboutspecifically black men, when I
think about black men, and Ithink about their challenge that
they have, in a household witha woman that has always worked

(20:45):
and was always providing, to nowbe in spaces where women are
providing more Right, andthey're no longer the full
breadwinner, like I imagine whatis going on in their minds as
they are watching and seeing andbeing raised in these
households.

(21:05):
Right, and I was just watchingand I'm saying this I know I'm
like digressing like a mug, butI was saying this because I was
watching this clip, I want tosay even maybe last night where
this young boy said well, how doI know how to become a man if I
don't have a father?
In the space?
I think I think I shared it yeah, yeah, yeah, and so and I I

(21:28):
thought like wow, like that's so.
It touched me in a differentkind of way, because when I
think about men, sometimes Ithink because I grew up in a
two-parent household, I thinksometimes I forget that that's
not always the case.
And I also think that because Ihad such a tribe of really

(21:50):
strong women and I use that wordvery loosely because the word
strong just is grind I literallylike I started itching when I
said it but very strong womenthat I had visuals of what it
looked like to work, what itlooked like to provide and what
it looked like to just be that Iforget that men sometimes most

(22:12):
times don't have that sameexample.
And so, as you're working withmen, what's one of the biggest
things that you see, a lot ofthe things that they're feeling
and that they're being and thatthey're being in is a younger
version of them.
And so how are you helping themheal from that younger version

(22:32):
of them so they could show up asa more improved version of
themselves and a more healedversion of themselves, to be in
space and in community in theirrelationships?

Elise Micheals (22:42):
Yeah.
So that's an amazing questionand I want to tie it back into
what you just said.
You had an amazing vision ofwhat strong women looked like in
your household and you even hada two parent household and with
the Steve Harvey clip that wason your stories that I saved, he
said how do I become a strongman if I don't have a vision?
Yeah, like if I don't have arepresentation of a man, most

(23:06):
men's vision of what it's liketo be a man comes from single
mother families.
There's so many children whogrow up in a fatherless
environment and, like SteveHarvey said, he's going to get
the vision of what it's like tobe a man from somewhere.
Someone he sees on social media, most likely because that's
what's so available to us orsomeone who's in his immediate

(23:29):
family and uncle, a brother, acousin, a milkman who comes over
every Tuesday.
I don't know Someone who's inhis immediate vicinity.
You know like that is what he'sgoing to see, but whoever is in
his surrounding environment andwhen we're talking, you know
about the representation likestrong females who do the work

(23:54):
are usually in survival mode.
Yeah, and so what he's gettingis a representation of a woman
who works a lot but usuallydoesn't have the emotional
capacity to be in her feminine,to be a nurturing mother.
And what you saw, too, isyou're like I had a good
representation of what a strongwoman looked like, but I'm sure
you don't know how to relax.
I'm sure you don't know whatit's like to just mind your

(24:15):
business at least.
But like we don't ever thinkabout this when we get older,
because my mom too, like I haddivorced parents who are always
still involved in each other'slives in a very toxic way, but
my mom always worked and my dadalways worked too, oh God, so I
also didn't know, right.

Chantée Christian (24:33):
And.

Elise Micheals (24:34):
I always worked Like, ever since I was little
from like a farm, you know like.
So we're always working, wedon't know how to slow down, and
so it's a bunch of mixedsignals about like, who am I
supposed to be, our women, andhow do we bring that into
relationship?
All of us bring our childhoodinto relationship because the
brain soaks up behaviors like atemplate and most people don't

(24:57):
want to recognize this.
It doesn't matter if you hadtrauma in your past or not.
Everything is traumatizing tous as children because we take
it from an ego perspective asthe brain is developing.
This is just science.
Like, your brain has adoptedbehaviors and however you learn
something, whatever age you wereat.
You're probably a 35 year oldman walking around with a 15
year old brain set because youlearned this is how I receive

(25:18):
love, or this is how women act,or this is the validation,
because that's what youperceived during that age.
So what we do is we acknowledgethat session and then we
rewrite the neural pathways tocreate a new behavior for what
we actually want.

Chantée Christian (25:35):
Yes, Because and I tell my clients this too
Male, female, I don't care andthey get the same spiel at some
point where I tell them toevaluate where they're coming
from, when they're respondingright, and they're like what's
that mean?
Well, what version of you, whatage of you, is responding?

(26:01):
Because, prime example, I gottriggered by a question about
the type of food I was eatingand I was like what is your
problem?
Go mind your business.
You know, that's what I wassaying to myself.
Y'all.
I didn't say it out loud,although they may differ and say
that I said might have saidsome of it out loud Because I

(26:23):
went and took a beat and waslike why did that bother me so
much?
What version of me is beingtriggered by this?
Because this is not 39, 40 yearold Shantay that's responding
to this, because this is silly.
And I went back and I was like,oh, wait a minute, this is like
11, 12 year old version ofShantay that is responding.
Because my parents were afraidthat I was going to be fat and

(26:45):
they used to measure out mysnacks into these ziplock bags,
and so it was something aboutthe acts that triggered it,
right?
And so I went and talked to mytherapist and a couple of my
coaches and I came back.
I was like you know what?
That wasn't you, it was me.
Per usual.
However, I was in a space whereI felt brave enough to come back
to the person and say you knowwhat, my bad, can we come back

(27:09):
to that and talk about it?
Because I know I kind of Iresponded in a way that probably
wasn't as kind and loving as Iwould have liked, right, and
they were like all right, but itwas being aware.
Which is the most importantpart about all of this and I
hope that people hear that partloud and clear is that you have
to be aware of you.

(27:31):
Right, you mentioned it early.
Who are you?
Well, part of that is you haveto be aware of when you're being
, you now, in the current,versus who you are in the past
and who, which of you, areshowing up in any given moment.
Yeah, that's really.
I love that.
That was dope.

Elise Micheals (27:49):
Yeah, and you said it so perfectly, because
unless you are consciouslychoosing what your response is,
it's always going to be a pastversion of you.
Yeah, because the brain is onautopilot.
Your behaviors, your habits areon autopilot.
The brain wants to run onefficiency.
This is how I survive.
So every day, all of us are insurvival mode.
Unless you are choosingconsciously, this is how I'm

(28:12):
going to respond in this moment,and I love that you were able
to do that in that moment andactually say why did that bother
me so much?
I had a similar incident,literally like last night, where
I had sent a girlfriend somevoice messages and I know how
busy she is, but she alwaysprefaces like the first voice
message to respond is alwaystalking about how busy she is.
She's like sorry, I was doingthis and I was doing that, and I

(28:34):
told her repeatedly that Ididn't care.
But for some reason last nightI got super triggered by it and
as I was getting triggered in mylike, I felt it in my chest.
I was like, oh my God, likethis is triggering me right now
and I was like why?
And immediately it was becausein a different relationship,
like a romantic one, theyweren't responding to my

(28:54):
messages, like within eighthours it was ridiculous and
always they would say sorry.
I was working all day, I wasdoing this and it pissed me off
so much because it wasn't inline with my integrity.
And the reason why that makesme so mad is from childhood,
because I felt like I was neverprioritized, and so when my
friend said that, I was like, ohmy God, this isn't about you,

(29:14):
but I'm feeling triggered rightnow.
So actually thank you, becauseI know that I have some healing
to do, whereas I feel likepeople don't prioritize me and
they just make a bunch ofexcuses for why they can't
answer me.
And we can let that take theforefront in our relationships
and make it about us and make itabout you know, we make a story

(29:34):
around it, a new story, whenit's really an old story.

Chantée Christian (29:37):
Yes, I mean, we can make stories that are
Oscar award winning and it issomething that is mind blowing
and I even think about.
So it happens in allrelationships and I'm even
thinking about, this week, oneof my clients.
He is an exec and he is workingat a really big company and

(30:01):
he's going on and on and on andon and on about some things that
are happening at work and Ifinally stopped and was like,
did this really happen?
Like did they actually say that?
And then he looked at me and hewas like well, no, I can tell
by the way that they responded.
I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

(30:22):
You can't tell what someonesaid based off of the way that
they respond to you, especiallyin this era of being virtual
right.
But we take things personal,based off of what we would want
or what we would do or what wethink, and then we create these
stories and next thing, you know, we got to be dead of against

(30:45):
someone somewhere, and it's likehold on, take a beat.
Is this real, Right?
Like is this real?
And I think, even more so inromantic relationships, we will
create stories after story.
And I say we as people willcreate story after story after

(31:06):
story, and then that becomes ourtruth, and so I think that one
of the things that we have beentalking about is, like you know,
partnership and bringingpassion back and being us and
who we are.
One of those things, I think,is to literally take a beat and
say is this a story that I'mtelling, Is this an assumption
that I have created, and or isthis real?

(31:29):
Because when you're in thepresent, it's like hold on, wait
a minute.
Maybe you didn't say that.
Maybe you didn't say that.

Elise Micheals (31:41):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly.
This is what I tell my clientsall the time too, is I was like
you're trying to win a chessgame without moving any pieces.
Like we get so caught up inthinking about all of the moves
someone can make, all of theresponses someone could have.
We think we know what they'regonna say.
We've been with them for somany years.
We know how they're gonnarespond.

(32:01):
We don't ask them, but weproject on them, like we've
already heard their response,which makes them either
defensive or it makes themrespond exactly in the way that
we predicted, which sometimesisn't even how we want because
we're always going to thedefault negative.
And so I tell my clients thisall the time they're like, oh
well, I didn't say anything, butI know she's gonna say this and

(32:22):
I was like, okay, but we don'tknow that.
So let's take a step back,because you haven't even moved
the piece yet, you don't knowwhat move they're gonna make,
and it doesn't pay us any goodto figure out all of the steps
they're gonna make before we'veeven moved the piece.
Yeah Right, makes no sense.

Chantée Christian (32:39):
Makes no sense.
I was on another conversationand we were talking about that
and that was one of the thingsthat I said.
I wish that they had one of the.
I think the question was aroundwhat do we want men to stop
doing?
When I said I want them to stopmitigating my feelings, I want
them to allow me to show up theway that I can and if I fail

(33:04):
them in that moment, then havethe courage and the strength and
the belief and trust in ourunit to be able to say, hey,
that didn't work, that wasn'twhat I needed, so that then I
can go work on it and become amore improved version of me for
the next time.
But mitigating my feelings andquestioning or trying to guess

(33:29):
every move I'm gonna makesometimes I'm predictable and
sometimes I'm not, and so you'resitting over there doing all
that work, when you could havejust asked a question or said
what you have to say and itcould be done.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,that's so real, that's so real.
Yeah, when you said it, I'mlike that is a thing for me.

(33:50):
Don't mitigate my feelings,cause you have a program, right.
You have like a 13 week program, yeah, right.
So tell our listeners what theywould get from working with you
with a 13 week program.

Elise Micheals (34:08):
So the 13 week one-on-one coaching program,
it's not like a calculated hey,this week we'll work on physical
, mental, spiritual, whatever,because then I would just sell
it as like a course or something.
It's literally thetransformation of who you are
from, like taking you from adeath to a rebirth, and it's

(34:31):
hard to give a specific sayingfor that because everybody is so
different.
And when someone comes into mylike the first session I say are
you willing to let go of whoyou are to become who you're
meant to be?

Chantée Christian (34:45):
Yeah.

Elise Micheals (34:45):
And I asked them exactly what they want and they
tell me and we usually surpassthat within like the first four
weeks, because if you're at thebottom mentally, spiritually,
emotionally, whatever your topis usually pretty low anyway.
And so once we take you there,then you're so expansive because
you have no idea how much yourpast blocks are blocking you and

(35:09):
you can only think from thevision that your blocks have you
limited by.
So when we clear the blocks,all of a sudden it's the
expansion right.
So it's a complete and totallife transformation and I would
say spiritual transformation aswell.
But that defined by everyone isjust a little different.

Chantée Christian (35:29):
It's always magical.
And that, I think, is the powerand the amazingness of coaching
right and being in space withpeople and being able to let
your guard down right.
Like one of my clients told methat one of the reasons why he
loves coming to sessions isbecause it's the time where he

(35:51):
feels like he's heard, and weall want to be heard, we want to
be seen and we want to beunderstood, and so I think that
is powerful for what you do, andI hope that there's, because my
listeners, based off of ourmetrics, are half women, half
men, so people who identify aswomen and men, and so I hope

(36:13):
that there are people thatlisten to this and that said you
know what?
Either I want to work with heror I know someone that could
benefit from working with her.
Based off of that, we've talkedabout a lot.
What would you leave the peoplewith?

Elise Micheals (36:30):
I would say find your joy, because at the end of
your life, and really find yourjoy, man or woman, whoever you
are, because at the end of yourlife you're never gonna look
back on your death bed and belike I wish I had worked more, I
wish I had stayed in thatcorporate job more, because I
was so terrified of what wouldhappen.

(36:51):
I wish I had done whatever ismaking you miserable now.
You are never gonna wish youhad done more of it.
So find a way out of that.
Find your way towards your joy,because when you are feeling
good, you are always universallysupported.

Chantée Christian (37:08):
Say that one more time for the people in the
back.

Elise Micheals (37:11):
When you are feeling good, you are always
universally supported.
Like even think about this.
A happy homeless person alwaysgains more than a cranky one.

Chantée Christian (37:19):
Well yeah.
Listen, if you're gonna get outof homelessness.

Elise Micheals (37:24):
You gotta start somewhere and you can't get any
change if you upset about it.

Chantée Christian (37:27):
Well, that's a fact.
It's something about when yousaid joy and not happiness,
because happiness is temporary,joy is internal.
So, even when things aren'tgoing as planned, there's still
a space of understanding thatbetter is to come.

Elise Micheals (37:46):
Right joy guides you and holds your belief.

Chantée Christian (37:50):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah, I love that.

Elise Micheals (37:52):
And that's also a skill set to learn right.
I know that we're kinda comingout on time, but like this is
something that I've trainedmyself in and I tell my clients
that they have to trainthemselves in is you have to
trust that you are universallytaking care of.
I don't care if you believe inGod or whatever, but everything
in life has a dip and you haveto just believe that, whatever
your deepest desire is, that theuniverse is curating it for you

(38:16):
.
So if something falls away ordoesn't go the way that you
planned, laugh about it and justsay, oh, I thought it was gonna
go this way, but I guess I waswrong.
Space is being cleared so thatmy true desire can be realized,
actualized.
A lot of us get so upset, wewant the other thing so bad and
we withhold the gift that iscoming to us.

(38:37):
We slow it down, we delay itwhen really like it's trying to
get to you fast what you reallydeserve.
You're trying to hold onto 100grand and 150 grand is on the
way for you 200 grand a milliondollars, but you don't wanna let
go, and so you're upset andyou're blocking your blessing.
You have to train yourself, andevery single time I've trained
myself now that, like even in mymonths that I've dipped, and

(39:00):
like my finances, like I justdon't worry, I say to myself,
well, that means more money iscoming.
And I train myself to getexcited.
And then it always follows upwith the highest income month
I've ever had, so hands on over.
But you know what I mean.
It holds your belief?

Chantée Christian (39:15):
No, and it does.
And I think that it's importantto remember that, right, because
there's so much power inletting go and trusting, like
literally just trusting, and notbeing grumpy or cranky while
doing it, but really being inthe space and saying you know

(39:37):
what?
I didn't go the way that I hadplanned, but obviously there's
another plan, right, obviouslythere's a plan, there's
something that I didn't know,and one of the things that I
always bring back to me to clickmyself back into it is, I think
, about an ex, and I'm like God,thank God that that didn't work
out the way that I had wantedit to work out, because I would

(39:58):
be divorced about three timesover by now and my life would
look completely different, right, and so it's just.
It brings me back like whooglad that didn't work out, but
at that time, in those moments,I was like, oh my God, I can't
believe it didn't work out.
And so I would say, also, justremembering that what didn't

(40:18):
work out in the past didn't workout for a good reason, right,
and usually I don't use thewords good and bad, because they
have so much judgment.
However, like a good reason, ohyeah, that's dope, that's dope.
Thank you so much for joiningme on my podcast.

Elise Micheals (40:37):
Thank you so much for being here.
I loved every second of it.
So much fun.

Chantée Christian (40:44):
Thank you for listening to this week's
episode of the my Best Shiftpodcast.
I enjoyed this conversationwith Elise, as we talked about
so many things with one commonthread how are we showing up for
ourselves and, in turn, showingup for others?
For more information or ifyou'd like to reach out to us,

(41:05):
please visit at my Best Shiftunderscore LLC on Instagram.
Remember stop doing shit thatdoesn't serve you.
See you later.