S4:E9: Tales of Intuition Charting Courses in Parenting and Personal Growth (with Dr. Carolyn Howell)

Have you ever felt a tug in your gut, urging you to take a leap into the unknown? That's the siren call of intuition, a force that Dr. Carolyn and I, Chantée Christian, dissect through candid conversation and shared experiences. Our anecdotes reveal how leaning into intuition not only propels us forward but also fosters personal growth.

Parenting comes with its own set of trials, often entangled with guilt and self-doubt when our children struggle. We peel back the layers of these complex emotions, offering solace and understanding to parents grappling with feelings of blame.

We celebrate intuition's role as an invisible compass in our decision-making process. Listen as we unpack the synergy between intuition and support, and why embracing both can transform the paths we tread.
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More  About Carolyn: Dr. Carolyn Howell was born and raised in Washington, DC. Growing up, she has always had a heart for children, even as a child herself. She dreamed of being a healer. After graduating from Benjamin Banneker Academic High School, she attended Spelman College in Atlanta, GA. Currently she works as the lead Child Psychiatrist in the Early Psychosis Intervention Clinic RAISE Team. She also serves as Medical Director of Outpatient Mental Health Services for The Children’s Guild. She runs her own private practice in Howard County, where she sees children and adults for psychotherapy and medication management. Her approach in psychotherapy is to help patient’s get in touch with their intuition and tap into their own innate healing power. She also has been trained to perform past-life regressions as a form of healing. In addition to managing her bustling practices, she is a wife and mother of three.

Connect with Carolyn via Instagram | LinkedIn | Website

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intuition with Dr Carolyn.
How, hey Carolyn?

(00:38):
How are you doing today?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (00:40):
Hi, good, how are you, shante, I am doing
well.

Chantée Christian (00:45):
Thank you for finally joining me on my
podcast Finally, oh my goodness.
So before we get too far intell the people a little bit
about your job.
So.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (00:57):
Okay, all right.
So I am a child and adultpsychiatrist and I practice in
the DC Metro area in EllicottCity, maryland, and I see
children and adults for a wholerange of different psychiatric
issues and I performpsychotherapy but also

(01:19):
medication management Awesome,and you were a guest on season
one of all the ships, that'sright.
Yes indeed, what a time, man,my gosh, that was such an
amazing experience.

Chantée Christian (01:34):
Oh, I say that my purpose is to be a
catalyst for growth, for changeand for inspired action, and so
anything that's in alignmentwith that is a yes for me.
And in that space of yes it'slike okay, well, who else can
join in this community of changeand doing something different?

(01:57):
Right, and Girl We on TV.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (02:01):
Right.
Exactly what an accomplishment.
That's huge.
And your own, and your own, no.
Your own, no.
Yes, that's huge.
Yes, indeed, and it was.
It was great, and you have.
You had some great guests too.
I was listening in after werecorded and was hesitant to

(02:21):
leave.
I had to make a flight, but Iwas just sitting listening.

Chantée Christian (02:24):
Fantastic.
Thank you so, so much.
And I mean it's a shamelessplug, but y'all make sure that
y'all go and listen and watch,or however you stream all the
ships because it is live onApple TV, ruku, amazon Fire,
bench TV networks, and then, ifyou don't have any of those, you

(02:47):
can watch it on your browserthrough Zandra TV network.
So awesome sauce.
So I'm curious what made yousay yes to this podcast or to
the TV show?
Well, I know the podcast becauseI have to know in you about
well, if you don't be a guest onthe show, you gotta be a guest
on the podcast, no, but on theshow.
What made you say, yes, I wantto be out there.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (03:11):
To be honest with you, it's because I had
never done it before and it mademe completely crazy nervous.
I was so scared that I actuallysaid them.
I just have to for that reason Ihave to push past the fear.
I mean, clearly this issomething that I think would
help me to get out of my comfortzone and the opportunity was

(03:33):
given to me for a reason.
So we're going to see itthrough and see what that reason
is.
And so I just said I got topush past the fear.
I don't even know why it makesme so nervous, but what it is
about it in particular that ismaking was making me so nervous.
But yeah, I guess I pridemyself like on the word cure as
psychiatrists and saying justthe right thing at the right

(03:56):
time it was live show is like,oh my gosh, I can't not say just
the right thing.

Chantée Christian (04:02):
Yes, you know , and I think that that's a
human nature thing too, right,where we get into these spaces
of we have to do it right.
But we can't do it at all, andso we become paralyzed in the,
in the notion of well, I don'thave it all flushed out, I don't
have it already, I can't go, Ican't do.
And so for you to be like no,because it has me in this state,

(04:27):
I'm going to go and do it.
Yes, I think I still.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (04:31):
I mean, yeah , yeah, and you're right.
Like all are non kind ofextremes, black or white, zero
to 100, with nothing in themiddle that can easily paralyze
us there's a spectrum, so theremight have been a couple of
things that I might have donedifferently, but does that mean
that I shouldn't have done it?
No, you know, or saying thingsdifferently, or you know, done
my hair a little certaindifferent, but that doesn't mean

(04:54):
I shouldn't have done it.
So I got to realize that it'snot just because it was one
thing I would change that itwasn't a success.

Chantée Christian (05:00):
No, no, that's good, that's a word,
because so I am guilty for beingself critical in all the things
.
And so when I look back at theshow, I was like, oh, I got a.
I got like four pages of oh,right.

(05:21):
And then I stop and I'm like,wait, you're doing something,
you've done something.
You did something really big,big, huge.
Yes, yeah, right.
And so it's like how can westay in these spaces of being
our own best critic and beingappreciative of the moment?

(05:46):
And for me, I was like, oh, mygoodness, we're all the way.
In Dallas I got people flyingout here.
I don't have a script Like ah,ah, ah, ah, ah, you know.
And everybody's like, oh, itlooks great.
And it remind me of that sayingif it looks easy, then you know
, a lot of work went into it,that's right.

(06:09):
And I saw the work.
And then I'm like, oh, but wecould do this.
And I was like, well, don't, Idon't want to negate the work
that we did, you know yeahthat's like, and the proof was
in the pudding, because itturned out to be marvelous.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (06:24):
So you know, and you just made it easy,
because your whole crew made iteasy really for me to just relax
into it.
Just looking at their smilingfaces and how they wanted me, it
was so clear that everyonewanted me to be comfortable.
You know, it just made us soeasy.
Yeah, they shot out to the crewShot out to the crew, shot out

(06:45):
to the crew.
It's an amazing crew.
I mean, I've never been on TVbefore, so I don't know what
other kinds of crews exist andall.
But this has to be the cream ofthe crop, like best of the best
, hey.

Chantée Christian (06:56):
Hey, hey, oh, they were so awesome Guests,
and then people that weren'tpart of the crew that were there
.
Everyone just kept talkingabout how seamless of an
operation it was, and I'm justso appreciative to have had them
with me on this part of thejourney, right, cause it was
it's the first time, and so Iwanted to be around people that

(07:16):
made me feel comfortable.
That's great, because there areso many things and, like I've
never done this before, thepodcast is easy, cause no one
ever sees us and they just hearus, and that's easy enough.
But to be on TV, and so thenI'm like, oh well, I don't know,

(07:41):
but no, I love the product, Ilove what we did, I love the
content, I love how everythingjust came together and I know
that season two is going to beamazing, so I'm excited about
that.
I'm excited too, I'm excited.
I'm excited.
So child psychology, that'sheavy, especially in this era in

(08:06):
life that we are living.
Yes, what type of advice wouldyou give parents in a space of
coping with the challenges thatchildren are facing right now?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (08:22):
Well, the biggest advice I can give
initially is just, it's neverwrong, if your gut is telling
you that maybe your children arestruggling with something, to
just seek for advice of aprofessional.
Sometimes we may wait untilit's glaring before we get to a
place where we actually say,okay, I'm going to make an

(08:45):
appointment.
However, even early on with thefirst concern like even if
we're just giving reassurance,that reassurance can be super
valuable.
And so and I've been there so Ifeel like, ultimately, the best
advice right now is just tojust be open to considering
making an appointment for yourchild to be seen by a

(09:05):
professional with the firstconcern that you have.

Chantée Christian (09:10):
And so and I think that that's good, right,
Cause it's I think and I don'thave any children, I always like
to put that out there right,and as an outsider looking in,
it's always easier to say, hey,have you noticed XYZ?
Versus where the parents like,oh well, they always do that or

(09:31):
something to that nature, CauseI can imagine that some parents
have some guilt and some shamearound it, so how do you help
them navigate that as well?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (09:41):
Yeah, and you said it right, that a lot of
parents feel a measure of guiltand shame Number one, because I
just think, as a mother,oftentimes our first go-to when
something is wrong with ourchild is what did I do wrong?
And so we might blame ourselves, whether it's something that we
did while carrying them in ourroom space, like, oh, I was just

(10:03):
anxious, just too anxious, or Ishouldn't have worked as much
as I did, or, you know, whateverthe case may be, I shouldn't
have smoked a cigarette, likewhatever.
And so that dealing with thatshame and guilt sometimes is a
process that might inhibit usgetting the help that we need in
a timely fashion.
It's real and it'sunderstandable to feel that way,

(10:26):
but we can't stay there and letit immobilize us.
So I think helping parents tosee that there's it's
multifactorial A lot of timesthe issues that children have
and genetics is one, butcertainly we're not to blame
ourselves for that, you know, orshame ourselves for that.

Chantée Christian (10:46):
Yeah, that's good, because so often we we in
general right project our ownstuff on others, and so I love
the idea of stepping aside andtaking a beat and evaluating the
child as they are and not asyou're thinking, oh, I could

(11:11):
have, I should have if thisdidn't happen, kind of space.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (11:15):
Yeah, what did I do to them?
Mm-hmm, or what even?
What does this expose?
Maybe, if I bring my child tocare, like is all my dirty
laundry gonna be airing me youknow, I did have to tap them on
the behind a couple of times, orI, you know, or whatever the
case may be, that it's facing,you know, our insecurities in a

(11:38):
way, or exposing our ownvulnerabilities.
Maybe it's something that wealso dealt with, that we never
addressed, so it's difficult tosee that in our kids or to just
really decide that it needs tobe addressed in them.
I had a father who sufferedwith social anxiety the majority
of his life and the young girlwas about six years old and five

(12:02):
or six, and she had really badsocial anxiety to the extent, or
significant social anxiety tothe extent that she was mute,
selectively mute, and so theybrought he and his wife brought
their child to care.
She got better, but he saidthat he suffered with it,
untreated, until from likeelementary school all the way

(12:25):
through high school.
And I just thought like oh, man,if he had attention earlier
that he wouldn't have had tosuffer for so long.
And thank God he knew to.
You know it didn't get in theway of him bringing his child to
care and he got to witness hergetting better.
You know it's beautiful.

Chantée Christian (12:44):
I think that there's so much power in the
sacrifice of your own ego.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (12:53):
Oh my gosh, that's big.

Chantée Christian (12:56):
It's so powerful because, while it may
not be typically seen as ego,it's this space of controlling
the narrative Like well, I'm agreat parent, so there can't be
anything wrong with them.
This has nothing to do withyour parentship.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (13:18):
Right, exactly Right.
Yeah, they may think a childpsychiatrist is going to point
out good or bad parenting, right, yeah, but you're right, it
really isn't.
I mean, there's always ways inwhich we might just need
education around, like how tonavigate this particular issue

(13:39):
that has arisen.
And so now, with that, you know, you need an expert to say,
okay, well, when it comes todiscipline in this constant, in
this circumstance, like, okay,tighten the reins, you got to
know when to tighten the reins,when to loosen them.
Right, just partnership aroundthose decisions, as opposed to

(14:00):
thinking that then we're justgoing to air it and judge it
because there is no judgment.
This is a safe, sacred place,you know, for both to heal in
the process.

Chantée Christian (14:09):
Yeah, and when I said ego, you said that
was big, so what?
And you all can't see her.
But the reaction was like wegot to go back to that.
That's funny.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (14:20):
I mean because people use ego various
ways, and when you said it it'ssound.
We're talking about what getsin the way of being able to see
truth, right, but then there'salso that thing that wants to
keep us safe and keep us in abox, and so that working against

(14:41):
that is not easy, because it'sdesigned to keep us safe.
I mean, it exists to keep ussafe, but it's not necessarily
truth, and that's the issue.
Our intuition resonates, true,but the ego is not necessarily
true.

Chantée Christian (15:01):
Yes, if I had something white, I'd throw it
at you.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (15:06):
Yes, leave it in your hands, listen.

Chantée Christian (15:12):
Because if we are paying attention and being
in a space of receptiveness andhonesty, then we know that our
intuition is telling ussomething we might not know
exactly what it is.
We might not even like want tohear what it is, but if we're in

(15:33):
a space where we can let go andlet the ego be where it's going
to be, then we'll be able touse that as a guiding principle.
And I'm not saying take thechild to healthcare and all the
things on every instance.
No, however, you know yourchild.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (15:53):
Yeah, yes, exactly.
So.
I'm glad you said that, becauseI was thinking like when I said
, at the first sign of somethingI know I would, the first level
of concern that could leadsomeone to then write one and
trigger reaction just goesstraight to the doctor with
something you know, the smallestthing, I guess, but also it's

(16:15):
probably more aptly put to say,with the first urging of your
spirit.
So that's your intuition, againspeaking when you, as you're
using your mother gut to saysomething isn't right.
You know what I mean.
It's not, as we can't alwaysput our finger on that thing,
but it doesn't lie and that iswhat I mean.
You know that.
That's kind of what I, what Imeant to say.

Chantée Christian (16:37):
No, I think the best right on right, because
what if someone doesn't reallyknow what their intuition is
right?
So, yes, you know, we kind oftalked about it a little bit on
the show Around, like trustingit, identifying it.

(16:59):
But I get a lot of questionsaround manifesting and around
intuition, and so I'm curiousfrom your perspective, because
you've been taught in Westernmedicine and Eastern Right and
so you have a differentperspective.
And so how do people identifywith okay, this is my intuition,

(17:21):
versus this is just nerves?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (17:24):
I love that, because this is really what I
love to do in therapy withpeople, a lot of kids and adults
and so With an adult, forexample, let me watch out.
I might take them back to amoment where they Felt an urging
in their body and really try toget to where they felt it,

(17:47):
something where they have anoutcome that they can Tied to it
.
They already know how it wentright and they might say, oh, I
had a feeling right.
So we go back to that and belike, okay, well, what was that
feeling?
Where did you feel it in yourbody?
What was it telling you?
What did you get an imageassociated with it?
Did you get some type of otherawareness?
And so that might give you aspace to start in terms of

(18:11):
really identifying, like, howyour intuition speaks to you,
because it can be a very still,quiet, subtle voice and, and so
our heart, when, when we havestrong feelings, can override it
, our brain can overthink it soeasily, and so being able to
really get in touch with, kindof like when it you know how you

(18:34):
experience it, and so sometimeswe got a tap into just when
you've experienced it before andsomething you know, you had an
inkling, you had it, you had it.
You know some type of Urging,some pool and people use various
ways to describe it.
And with children I don't knowif I said this on the show, but
just like, sometimes, even just,I get my six year old, seven

(18:57):
year old, to just practice, likeclosing your eyes we're at a
stoplight and try to tell mewhen you think the light is
gonna turn green.
Just just as a little simpleexercise and going with how you
feel, what feels, what feelingscome to you, but you're feeling
with a different sense, right so?

(19:18):
So I think, and I also sharewith people like I Was I had a
condo in DC and I was trying tosell it and I renovated it, but
I had to go with three different, that was trying to decide
between three differentcontractors.
One was someone I usually gowith, another was someone
recommended.

(19:39):
The one I usually go with waslike mid-range figure.
The one recommended washighball.
And then the third one wassomeone I found on a website
that I admired his work, but hewas interior designer, not a
contractor, but he worked withcontractors.
But he had a lowball figure andI went ahead and met up with
him, given that he had a lowballfigure.

(20:00):
When I met with him he waswearing a three-piece suit and I
kind of was like that'sinteresting.
So first little inclination thatsomething doesn't feel right
about that.
I didn't know how to put myfinger on it and that's where we
might second guess it, becausewe don't know how to explain it.
But see, you don't have toexplain away intuition.
That feeling that somethingisn't quite right was the

(20:24):
message right?
And so then, when I walked upthe steps and he was walking
behind me, I got this ickfeeling.
Like an ick it showed up likein my neck and right shoulder,
like it was just like a clear no.
But because it was fleeting, Ikept on walking up the steps.

(20:45):
I went ahead and entertain thisguy and booked him to do the job
and he called me out of 6,400,6,400 dollars.
And and I thought to myself andI often use this as an example
when we talk about intuition butnot do with patience to say it

(21:05):
didn't make logical sense.
Right, he came in at the rightdollar figure and I admired his
work.
So to say no didn't makelogical sense.
But To say no if I wasfollowing my intuition doesn't
have to make logical sense,because that's wisdom, true
wisdom, and if I had just actedon it I would still had, I would

(21:27):
have been up 64.

Chantée Christian (21:30):
Right because then my question is that's a
very expensive lesson inlistening to your intuition.
So expensive because he gotthat, but then you had to go get
somebody else to go do, stilldo the work.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (21:44):
Exactly yes, I did.
Yes, I did so very costly, andand and it's and.
It's good, because sometimeswisdom homes are intuition,
because again I can look at thatand know If that it feeling
comes up again in my neck andshoulder oh, it's an absolute no
, and I don't need anotherexperience to tell me that.
Now that I have that salientexperience to tell me, okay,

(22:10):
that was my body, that was mywisdom, that was my god wisdom
inside saying it's just noperiod period.

Chantée Christian (22:21):
No, and I think that that's so powerful
because so often we have hitsright, literally intuitive hits,
yes, and we ignore them asAnything or just it's just a
thing, it's nothing, right.
I remember similar, but not thesame.
Um, I have been looking.

(22:43):
I was like, okay, I'm gonna goback into the corporate world,
let me go look at some jobs.
I pulled them up and Iliterally got a pain in my back
and in my stomach in the momentof reading them and I was like,
nope, not gonna do this.
I heard it loud and clear Rightnow where, if I wasn't aware, I
would have been like oh, I don'tknow what I did to my back, but

(23:05):
my back was perfectly finebefore that and it went away
when I closed the computer.
Oh man, right.
And so I was like whatever thatwas in that job description was
not for me Right.
And being in a space to be ableto say hold on what's happening
, like I like to tell my clients, just take a beat.
Just take a beat, because justbecause you say yes to something

(23:29):
doesn't mean you can't go backand say, no, that's right.
That's right, you know, becauseonce you gain more information
and paying attention you'd belike Still does not resonate
with me, that's right.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (23:42):
Right, that's right, absolutely.
It's never too late when itcomes down to acting on that
wisdom that comes from the gut.

Chantée Christian (23:51):
And I wonder, right like I'm thinking about
so, one of my clients.
He has two children who arequeens and pre-tweens.
Um, as he was like he wanted tomake sure that he was
cultivating spaces of happinessfor them.
And one of the questions Iasked him was well, how do they

(24:15):
resolve conflict?
And he kind of looked at me andhe was like, well, we kind of
mediated His wife and himmediated.
Ok, I said, well, if they're 9and 12, they now have an
opportunity to be able to say Iactually need a break.
Disconversation is not servingme right now, that's right.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (24:42):
Yeah, yeah.

Chantée Christian (24:44):
And being able to respect that.
I was like, ok, you're taking abreak when you're coming back,
but we learned those things athome.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (24:53):
No, absolutely Right yeah.

Chantée Christian (24:55):
Like.
Think about how your childrenwill be so much more open to all
things, intuition, all thingson both sides of I like to call
it hocus pocus, right, like allthings on both sides of it,
because they've been exposed toit.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (25:15):
Yes, creating opportunities for them
to learn this new language.
I mean because it's notsomething for whatever reason
that's like generally spoken of,or at least not in my
generation coming up.
I always feel so old when I saythat.

(25:36):
But yeah, like, and I alwayssay also just in my medical
education at that point in theearly 2000s, yeah, no, they
didn't speak of intuition, andnot once.
So I think and even inresidency I'm not quite as much
as I value and thankful for thetraining I received they didn't

(26:00):
speak of that.
So, yeah, I mean and Iappreciate you saying that I
definitely feel like I hope thatthey, my children, benefit from
just having at least just thatawareness for them to start
maybe practicing this skillearly in life.
Hopefully we'll keep them fromwasting $6,400.

Chantée Christian (26:25):
That's so funny.
Or even just like.
I mean I remember in collegebeing like, no, I don't want to
go out tonight, I can't put myhand on it, I just don't want to
go.
And then something happens atthat club or out after the club
and I'm like, oh, thank god Ididn't go.
But that is also listening toyour intuition, right, those are

(26:48):
intuitive hits and feel liketeaching children early to pay
attention to when there is thisform of body reaction.
Body reaction, yes, you knowthat's important because it can

(27:08):
keep them safe.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (27:10):
Yeah, and don't push them, Like, as
parents we might, you know, foretiquette sake, like, oh, like I
saw somebody on Instagramtalking about this like, okay,
your child says I don't reallywant to hug them, but you know,
uncle Johnny, and then you knowyou're like, don't be rude to
Uncle Johnny.
Like, go hug him.
What do you mean?
Like, how are you going to behere in his presence?

(27:32):
But maybe it's for a reason andthere's a way to still have
etiquette around that decision.
But that's maybe a boundarythat we have to respect.
And what are you teaching them?
You're teaching them to honorthemselves right In the process,
first and foremost right, andto not ignore feelings and you

(27:53):
might process it later, you know.
But, yeah, like, don't pushthem, if they're having a
feeling that makes them kind of,even without evidence or fact,
to align with that feeling, tojust push beyond their boundary
that they're trying to set.

Chantée Christian (28:14):
Yeah, children know when something
ain't right.
They know, right, they're likethey know, and if you allow them
and it's like you said, it'shelping them and coaching them
around how to say no, thank you,right, and then processing it
with them, but coming from aspace of curiosity.

(28:38):
So what's going on?
Why didn't you wanna have UncleJohnny?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (28:43):
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, because that's the nextlevel of just understanding and
awareness that can be then afuture garden principle based on
that experience.

Chantée Christian (28:55):
Yeah, definitely, it's important to do
that, yeah like I think abouthow often especially culturally
right we have this space of well, if they're family, then you
gotta speak, you gotta give hugs, you gotta give kisses you have
, and it's like where did wecome up with this?

(29:17):
Because if these people wereout on the street I wouldn't be
hugging them and wouldn't betalking to them, or I would
right.
But as a kid, we take awaytheir identity as children, I
think right, or and or we put onthem that they're children and
like, oh well, they don't know.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (29:37):
Exactly.
And then I'm like, okay, ifwe're really doing parenting
right, parenting appropriately,we'll realize that maybe they're
teaching us Like you know whatI mean.
Like how much do we as parentsstep back and say, okay, I'm

(29:57):
learning from my child, you know, cause I think some old school,
you know an old schoolmentality, maybe in our culture
kind of like might be like gonnado as I say, or our children
are to be seen and not heard,and so you lose the value of

(30:17):
what a child might have to saythat could liberate us, and
especially really early on, whenthey're so close to the womb
space, so close to the spirit,you know, spirit realm, where
they're still operating, in thattheir intuition is probably
firing way more, you know, thanours is spontaneously, because

(30:40):
over time they unlearn it, right, we unlearn it, and so I think
you know being able to just likeactually respect that it's kind
of like why African culturesome African cultures depend
upon what region that a lot oftimes a child early in life
spends more time with thegrandparents than they do with

(31:03):
the parents themselves, becausethey both are so close to you
know the other side, that theyhave so much to teach each other
.
You know what I mean, and so alot of that has to do with
spirit, and so, yeah, I mean wehave a lot to learn from
children and I just didn't knowthat that's part of why I was
called to do the work.
I knew I was drawn to childrenfor a reason, but I just

(31:26):
couldn't put it into words earlyon until I started to get into
it and had my own specialprocess and I'm like, okay, this
is more of the reason whythey're teaching me.

Chantée Christian (31:37):
That's awesome.
It's awesome, you learnsomething new every day.
I did not know that about.
I mean, it makes perfect sense,right, how one is closer on the
other end.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (31:51):
Yeah, that came alive for me in reading a
book of Water and Spirit thename is escaping me right now,
but yet that was a nice detailof his experience in West Africa
and I learned a lot about, justculturally, what it means to
grow up in that region and, likeI said, it's been time more

(32:14):
with your grandparents in thatearly stage than you do your
parents.

Chantée Christian (32:21):
Yeah, I wonder how that's interesting.
I'm digging that.
I'm gonna have to check it out.
I'm gonna have to check it outBecause for parents who question
therapy for themselves, letalone for the children, what
does it look like to be able toset their mind at ease?

(32:44):
That this isn't penny dreadful,all right, I don't know if
you've ever watched pennydreadful.
I've never seen it, so it'smore so around vampires.
But no, never mind any of that.
It has their version ofpsychotherapy it's what they

(33:04):
call it, right, and they'redoing like electric shock.
They're doing all of these verytraumatic things and so it's
almost like myth busting.
So how do you myth bust therapyspecifically for children,
especially for people who won'teven go and do it for themselves
?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (33:24):
Oh, that's a heavy question.
I remember the name is MaladomaSomme.
That's the author of Water andthe Spirit.
Okay, so, oh gosh, how do youmyth bust when it has to relates
to children, when the parentsare having a hard time with it
themselves?

(33:45):
I think a lot of it has to dowith relationship and word of
mouth and like how you can justinitially identify with someone
enough to then be open to hearmore about you know what what
therapy brings.

(34:05):
I mean, we're talking moreabout therapy.
I do think it is this lessstigmatized things to a lot of
initiatives.
And I think, as we continue tohave spaces like this to really
talk about, like how whattherapy is like to hear my voice

(34:29):
as African American female whodoes it, and actually also I
have my own therapist I meanjust normalizing it, I think
across the board is superhelpful.
And then I think, when you'retalking about your child, is
that extra layer that goesbeyond what we might face if

(34:50):
it's just us, because of thatprotective nature we have
towards our kids, and so youdon't want to just hand your
child over to anybody, and soyou know, field us like,
interview us like, you know,like to be able to make sure
that all your questions areanswered and that and that you

(35:10):
feel comfortable based on theconversation that you had.
Like I'll do discovery callswith people just so that I can
explain my practice.
We can chat a bit about what'sbringing you to treatment and we
can really explore where if I'mthe best fit for you, seemingly
or not and that happens in thefirst appointment too, you know.
So I guess that was a longwinded way of saying that maybe

(35:35):
we're talking about greaterconversations and just being
open enough to ask questions andrealize you're still in the
driving seat when you're makingthis decision.
But you will not get a chanceif you don't actually at least
be open enough to learn more.

Chantée Christian (35:54):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that because and I talkabout this with my coaching
clients in our first sessionlike our discovery conversation,
as well as the differences,like the major difference or
differentiator between coachingand therapy, right, and I
usually use the example of whatif some imagine that something

(36:18):
traumatic happens, a five yearold version of you and your
therapist is going to want toheal that version of you and
talk about what happened.
How did you feel?
Who was involved?
Possibly invite them in withthat exact same scenario over to
coaching, and we're going toacknowledge it, we're going to

(36:38):
validate it, we're going to talkabout it a little bit, but
we're not coming from the samespace of healing your past.
We're coming from a space ofyour current and your future,
right, and so and the questionswill be different, right, and
how we engage will be different,because my questions are more
so, okay, knowing what you knownow, yes, yes, how is that

(37:02):
serving you to hold on to thatspace right here, right now,
exactly?
Or knowing how and where youwant to go, how is it holding
you back from the future versionof yourself or something to
that effect?
Right, and so it's really, Ithink, important for people to
understand that if somethingtraumatic happened to a five

(37:24):
year old version of your child,you can help them really live at
their full potential, which iswhat every parent really wants.
Yes, right, sooner.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (37:37):
That's right .
That's exactly right.
That's an excellent way todifferentiate between therapy
and coaching.
I love how you put that.
I mean because I get thatquestion too sometimes, and
sometimes it's a toughdistinction.
So that's beautifully put.

Chantée Christian (37:54):
And it doesn't always have to be
traumatic, right, it can besomething, but everything is
traumatic.
Like sitting in traffic for methese days is traumatic.
I start having flashbacks ofpre pandemic, having to go on
the client site and driving andsitting in the car and I'm like,
oh my God, I don't want to dothis Right, and I need to figure
out a way to unwind.
It's just, it has an effect onme, right, it'll take me back to

(38:18):
a space that doesn't mean thatsomeone who has had other
traumatic experiences.
They don't outweigh each other,my version of traumatic versus
their version of traumatic andvice versa, and so I think that
it's really important.
Like you said, there are someremoving of sigmatisms and,
right, there's still this spaceof, well, there's nothing wrong

(38:42):
with me.
Well, you don't have to havesomething wrong with you or your
child for there to be a spacewhere you seek support.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (38:51):
Yes, yeah, exactly.
And so judge the behavior, notthe being right that helps you
step away from it in a way whereit's like, okay, let me stop
assigning so much meaning tothis as maybe a function of me,
but just isolating the behavioritself.
And we're humans, so we're allgoing to struggle with certain

(39:11):
behaviors.
Yeah, you know, yeah.

Chantée Christian (39:15):
And you said even that you have a therapist.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (39:19):
Oh gosh yeah .

Chantée Christian (39:20):
I tell people all the time coaches have
coaches, therapists havetherapists.
Yes, and if you're with anyonewho isn't working on themselves,
go get you a new one.
Yes, that's right.
That's great advice.
That's right.
Right, Because evenhairstylists have a hairstyle
that they'll go to for certainthings.

(39:41):
Right, even if they can do itthemselves.
It's the part of theself-improvement literally Right
, because we're all working onsomething.
We're all working on something.
So that's good stuff, goodstuff.
So tell me, what would youleave the people with?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (40:05):
Well, because I feel like we've been
talking about intuition today,which is my favorite topic of
conversation, I would say justto get cozy with your intuition,
really learn about how yourinner wisdom speaks to you and
your honor.
That's what I want to leavepeople with.

(40:25):
Oh, I love that.
Get cozy with it.
Yes, Get cozy with it All rightall right, all right.

Chantée Christian (40:34):
So if people wanted to reach out to you, find
you work with you.
What does that look like?

Dr. Carolyn Howell (40:41):
So I can be found one at my website at
carolinhowlmdcom that'sC-A-R-O-L-Y-N-H-O-W-E-L-L-M-Dcom
, and then also on social mediaplatforms.
Instagram is my name CarolynHowell MD.

Chantée Christian (41:02):
That's probably the best way, okay cool
beans, and we'll also have itin the show notes so people can
grab it there too.
So thank you so much forfinally joining me.

Dr. Carolyn Howell (41:12):
Don't say finally yes, y'all, because you
just don't know how I've beentrying to get this woman on this
podcast.
You had to open it back up.
I'm thankful.
I appreciate it.

Chantée Christian (41:26):
Thank you for listening to this week's
episode of the my Best Shiftpodcast.
I really enjoyed thisconversation with Carolyn.
We talked about so many thingswith one common thread trusting
our intuition.
For more information or ifyou'd like to reach out to us,
please visit at mybestshift_llcon Instagram.

(41:48):
Remember stop doing shit thatdoesn't serve you.
See ya later.