March 29, 2025 • 40 mins
Are you stuck in "either/or" thinking? What if the key to better leadership, career growth, and personal fulfillment was embracing both/and instead? In this episode of My Best SHIFT Podcast, host Chantée Christian sits down with Dionne Galloway, Vice President of Both/And Leadership at Andiron, to unpack the power of mindset shifts, self-awareness, and betting on yourself.
Dionne's career journey—from PR to real estate operations to leadership development—proves that success isn't always linear. She shares how a pivotal moment after her daughter's birth reshaped her purpose, leading her to redefine success beyond just a paycheck.
This episode is packed with wisdom on confidence, growth, and leading with authenticity. If you’re ready to shift your mindset and embrace a more expansive way of thinking, you don’t want to miss this one!
Connect with Dionne via LinkedIn.
Listen now and start shifting your perspective!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chantée Christian (00:03):
Welcome to the My Best Shift podcast.
I'm your host, ChantéeChristian.
In today's episode, I'll betalking about how our mindsets
drive our actions with Dionne.
Hi Dionne, how are you?
Dionne Galloway (00:17):
you doing today .
I am fantastic, Chantée.
How are you?
Chantée Christian (00:22):
I am doing well.
So before we get too far intoour conversation, why don't you
tell the people a little bitabout yourself?
Dionne Galloway (00:29):
I would love to .
So I am a Cleveland native,transplant to the Washington DC
area where I reside, actuallynow in Maryland for the past.
In Maryland for the past.
We're going on three years now,but I've been in the area for
almost 25 years.
So at what point do I let go ofCleveland?
(00:50):
I don't know, maybe never butlive here with my husband and
two children and just love thearea, love the energy of it.
So that is in part, why I neverleft.
What else is important to share?
I am the vice president of bothand leadership for an
organization called Andiron andthat is just a fancy way of
(01:10):
saying that I work with leadersand organizations and teams to
bring more both and energy.
So how can we hold and maintainmultiple states, multiple
perspectives, multiple ideas astrue and use that to fuel how we
connect and collaborate, leadand learn together?
Have been doing that work formaybe about two and a half years
(01:33):
now, but have been in theleadership, development and
organizational development spacefor several years.
And the last thing I think isimportant to say that I always
find fascinating because life isjust a winding journey is that
this is actually my third career, so I have started over many
times.
I have bet on myself many timesand I'm happy to say that I
(01:55):
have found my calling in serviceof others and service of
organizations and really helpingindividuals thrive.
Chantée Christian (02:04):
So again, happy to be here.
Oh, my goodness, like I'm like,how do I not know any of that?
I mean, wow, okay.
So I have to ask this firstbeing from Cleveland does it
make you a Cleveland Browns?
Dionne Galloway (02:19):
fan Ah, it does , it does.
There's no getting around it.
There's no getting around it,do you see?
Chantée Christian (02:27):
my hat so you all can't see my hat out there
in the world.
But I have on a Steelers hatbecause if you know me, you know
that I am a diehard Steelersfan.
So as soon as she said she wasfrom Cleveland, like a piece of
me, like just clutched up andwanted to just curl up.
Dionne Galloway (02:45):
I'm still happy to be here, though I'm still
happy to be here.
Chantée Christian (02:50):
I am happy for you to be here.
First of all, I didn't realizethat you were in the area.
I also thought that you were inTexas or other than being in
the DMV, and so hello neighbor,hello neighbor.
And then the other thing that Ijust found just so amazing
because I think a lot of peopleare in hunt of it is
(03:13):
understanding and findingclarity within their purpose.
And so you were going throughyour process of reinventing and
discovery.
Like what did that look likefor you?
Dionne Galloway (03:26):
It's funny that you ask that, because I feel
like I have this conversationoften in many different ways,
even when the question is notasked sort of as clearly and
beautifully as you just did, butespecially like in coaching
conversations or when talking toothers, I'm always laughing
that you can never make sense ofyour journey, sort of when
you're looking forward, there'sno way to tell, there's no way
(03:47):
to plan, there's no way to know.
But when you're able to justkind of pause and look back,
it's amazing how many of thethings that are revealed.
And so I think for me it wasjust a process of I'll reiterate
sort of betting on myself andreally taking the time to find
my voice and to step into whatfelt authentic for me.
(04:09):
So I started off my career inpublic relations.
I worked for a federal union,did a lot around communication.
I then sort of transitionedfrom that to doing marketing and
operations and was working fora real estate team for many
years.
And I think that was one of themost pivotal moments when I
(04:31):
said to myself if I'm going towork every day and this is
actually right around the timewhere I had my daughter if I'm
going to go to work every day.
It has to be for more than apaycheck.
It has to be for more than justwhat I'm going to get every two
weeks.
I want to feel fulfilled and Iwant to feel like I'm actually
doing something to improve thisworld that I'm bringing this
(04:53):
little young lady into.
And so I took a leap at thattime to transition from the
private sector to the publicsector.
It had the opportunity stillstaying in operations to work
for community developmentfinance institution and an
affordable housing organization,and that again still spurred
(05:14):
that desire to serve others andto be purposeful in that again,
and I love that work.
The program that sort ofbrought me into that
organization was a learning anddevelopment program.
They really focused on bringingindividuals who historically
worked in the private sector tothe public sector and they
provided us training every monthand that was an aha for me.
(05:37):
I was like, wait, you canprovide training to others and
support to others anddevelopment to others as a
career.
That wasn't something that Iwas aware of and that is where I
started putting things togetherand that's where some of the
magic of what I had done beforestarted to click and really feel
like it was moving me in adirection where maybe exploring
(05:59):
organizational development,exploring leadership development
made sense for me and I againtook that leap and haven't
looked back since.
Chantée Christian (06:07):
I love that and it reminds me of something
that I do with some of myclients, but it's because I did
it and it is literally taking alook back at every job that
they've ever held, even startingwith the very first one, and
pulling out just what did theylove about it?
(06:29):
Going back to just thinkinglike, what about it did you like
Before?
You hated it, before you wantedto leave, before you didn't
like your boss or whatever thething was before they didn't
promote you, what did you likeabout it?
What drew you to the work?
And when you do that and youlook over the time, you realize
there's some common themes hereand while it may not be as clear
(06:53):
as a purpose statement, it getsyou really close to
understanding that there's muchmore of a connection, regardless
of where you are in your careerand how you've shifted, than
you actually are most of thetime aware of.
I laugh because I always say Ihad a business before my best
shift and I didn't do anythingwith it and that was my first
(07:15):
business.
But that's not true.
My very first business wasbabysitting and I had a
certificate.
Then I was like I can do CPR onthis.
I'm ready, let me go get thisprinter Because I need people to
know that I can charge themhigher, babysit their kids.
But when I think about it, andover the years, everything that
(07:36):
I've done has had a sense ofservice in it.
Right, it has had this sense ofindependence in it and wanting
to help people, and in theprocess I didn't realize that
right In my mind.
I'm just moving along and doingthe thing and it took some life
(08:02):
changes to occur for me to sitdown and like literally walk
through, like okay, why am Ihere?
Why was I put here?
Because there has to besomething other than mentoring.
It has to be something otherthan opening up Excel
spreadsheets and managingprojects, because this is not.
It Like something else got tohappen.
But I think it's just such apowerful point I think it was
(08:24):
Mark Twain that said there aretwo really powerful pivotal
moments in someone's life whenthey're born is when they find
out what their purpose in lifeis, and I always add the third
one is when they have thecourage to actually walk in that
purpose.
I literally tilt my hat off toyou, because you said it twice
(08:46):
that you bet on yourself.
What did that look like?
Dionne Galloway (08:50):
Yeah, it was a long journey.
I want to be really clear.
Like very early in my career, Iused to tell myself no all the
time.
I was very much a person whowould no, dionne, you can't go
after that opportunity.
No, you shouldn't apply forthat job.
No, don't raise your hand.
You know, like your voice isn'tneeded in this moment.
(09:13):
And so it was a very long andsometimes very hard journey of
getting to a space of realizingthat I have power, like there is
power within me, there's poweraround me, there are people who
want to see me succeed, and thefirst step to tapping into that,
(09:34):
to that power, to accessing thehelp and support of others,
really relied on me firststopping the, the no's, stopping
the you can't, you won't.
What if all of that?
And quieting that noise, andreally one once that's quiet,
really thinking about and reallyjust kind of getting clear on
(09:55):
what I've been able to do, kindof like reassess and reevaluate.
And look at your track recordtoo.
It's like you've done a lot,you're capable of a lot, and I
believe that you can even domore, and so the only thing
that's standing in your way inthis moment is you DM.
So stop telling yourself, no,and just put yourself out there
(10:17):
and really having thatconversation around like what's
the worst that could happen, youknow, playing out that worst
case scenario and doing itanyway.
And I think that when I starteddoing that, when I started
listening to my champions whowere saying you could do this,
when I started listening to thatother voice in my head that was
(10:38):
also saying you are capable,that is when I started to move
and shift into this space of I'mwilling and able to bet on
myself.
Now I'm willing to put myselfout there to try it, to do it.
That was difficult for me, youknow, for a lot of reasons.
I still, to this day, have notimpact all of the whys behind it
, but it was a journey and I'mjust thankful that I've arrived
(11:02):
at this moment.
It's not all perfect and I'mjust thankful that I've arrived
at this moment.
It's not all perfect and I knowthat I don't have to be, but I
do respect myself even andcelebrate myself for all that
I've been able to do andaccomplish and how I move the
needle on feeling more secure inwho I am and what I can bring
to the table and what I canoffer the world, and that has
(11:23):
been so liberating and sofulfilling in so many world, and
that has been so liberating andso fulfilling in so many ways.
It's so good.
Chantée Christian (11:29):
That's so good.
You're right, you don't have tobe perfect.
You got to move, though.
You got to do, because that'swhen and where the magic is, and
that self-critic and thatself-talk that we have I say we
because everyone has it rightwhat we do with it is sometimes
(11:52):
a lot the same, and so beingable to be in a space to say,
well, let me prove you wrong,like, just hold on a second,
because I know you're here toprotect me for something.
Something happened that this isa trigger for Cool, cool, cool,
but right here, right now, letme see what I can do, that's one
(12:12):
of the things that I love aboutthe polarities, because, as a
lot of my clients know, I lovethe word, and it's rare that I
say but unless I really mean it,because all things can be true
at the same time.
And when we start saying, but wenegate everything that we have
(12:37):
said or acknowledged before thatwhen they, too, still hold
weight in our lives.
And so when I met you at aconference and I was like this
is amazing, what you all do isamazing I was like more people
need to hear about this, because, outside of just leadership
(12:59):
right, because when I thinkabout leadership.
I think about it being one howwe lead ourselves and and then
two how we can influence andlead others.
And it doesn't matter thetitles that we hold right.
It literally is how we show upevery day and how we continually
(13:19):
, to your point, do the workwhen we have solved it all.
We are on our deathbed and westill haven't solved it all,
right, and we still had a saltat all right.
But we live in a space whereit's so important to be able to
acknowledge it and to understandwhere it's coming from and then
to work with it, not against it, absolutely.
Dionne Galloway (13:46):
So tell us a little bit more about the
polarities that you work with inyour role.
Yeah, one of the things that Ialways say is like, we know, and
we fully acknowledge that inlife there are absolute problems
there are, there are problemsat every level of system that
require us to solve, require usto dig in and operate from that
space of either, or.
I think oftentimes we applythat thinking, though, to
(14:10):
everything and to your point.
It's like that is so limiting,and so what I always say is,
while everything is not apolarity, polarities are
everywhere, and the more that webuild our capacity and
capabilities around seeing themand working them and making
sense of them, not only is itfreeing for ourselves, but it's
(14:32):
so powerful when you think aboutthe ways in which we work and
we live and we lead, and I justfeel so honored to be in this
space to be able to do this work, because, unlike in a lot of
ways, just when you think about,like, traditional leadership
development, you have someonecome in and it's like we need to
do a module on feedback orimplicit bias or on change
(14:56):
management.
You know there's a specifictopic.
You come in, you do a bunch ofwork.
It's like everybody should bedoing this.
This is a problem to be solved.
Let's go in and fix it and kindof run down the list of things
to do.
You leave that session.
You may have picked up a coupleof tidbits, but at the end of
the day it doesn't actually gettraction, it doesn't make
movement.
(15:16):
And what I love about thepolarity lens and both and
thinking is that it helps tounlock why we're getting stuck
with a lot of those commonchallenges.
It helps us to dig underneath it, to really understand what's
the root cause that's driving usto operate in this space of
tension, to operate in thisspace of my way or your way, to
(15:39):
operate in this polarized spacethat gets us stuck and doesn't
allow us to move forward.
And so I just love operating inthis space, helping people to
see polarities and also thenunderstand how to make sense of
it and the light bulbs that justgo off.
I can't tell you, shante, howmany times people come to me at
(16:00):
the end of a session and say nowI know why my old coworker and
I just did not get along.
She really valued stability andI really value change, and we
constantly were talking at eachother instead of with each other
, not recognizing that there'sso many benefits to stability
(16:21):
and there's so many benefits tochange.
And how can we make space forboth, to honor what both of us
want in this situation and avoidany of those like overuses or
those unintended consequencesthat can come when we just over
focus on one and so it just canbe really powerful to kind of
play in that space.
(16:41):
That's so good, that's so sogood.
Chantée Christian (16:45):
I recently wrote an article around
leadership DNA.
Well, more so walking the talk,right?
So just transformativeleadership.
I do a workshop on it too, andso one of the things that you
said that really, reallyresonated with me is, when
people value something differentthan us and we don't realize it
(17:09):
, we start to hold them to theseunarticulated and agreed upon
expectations of how they oughtto be, based off of our lens,
not realizing.
One, they didn't agree to it.
Two, they don't even know thatthat's what we're thinking,
because that's not their value,right, that's not their thing of
(17:39):
importance in a moment.
And so it's so important totake a step back, because a lot
of times when we're in thesespaces of resistance or
disagreement, we're usually notin disagreement about the same
thing, and people don't realizethat because they think that, oh
well, we're in a conversationabout this thing, or then it has
to be that you just don'tunderstand my reasoning when
that's not the case, right?
(18:00):
I see you just shaking yourhead.
Dionne Galloway (18:03):
And then we just talk louder.
It's like, let me reiterate mypoint, let me share my value
again.
If I say it louder, if I say itmore, if I say it in a way that
is intimidating, even you'llhear me then one right or best
solution here this is somethingthat's unsolvable, that we have
to pay attention to, that'sgoing to take work over time,
(18:35):
and that there's value in bothperspectives.
And it's like, how do we getpeople to see that?
And I love what you just shared, because it also kind of
connects to how, in addition tosort of it, sits with our values
.
A lot of the aspects of thesepolarities attach to our
identity.
Yeah, about, for example, likeflexibility and structure.
(18:55):
I really value flexibility andif somebody says, deon, describe
yourself.
I'm like, oh, I'm a creative,I'm adaptable, I'm all of those
things.
Like it's part of my identity.
Now, and I hear, or sometimesI'm up against someone who has a
really strong preference forstructure, I can begin to see a
threat to that especially.
(19:15):
They're asking me to change.
It was almost like a threat,like wait a minute, you want me
to be rigid, you want things tobe confining.
I can't be creative.
Like then I start shutting downand if we're not talking with
each other around the benefitsof both, because there's
absolutely my logical mind knowsthere's plenty of benefits to
(19:36):
structure, you know you canmaintain some control, you can,
you know, keep efficienciesthere, like there's definitely
benefits.
But if we're talking at eachother I might not be able to see
that.
All I hear is a threat to who Iam and I'm going to shut and
again possibly talk louder orretreat and it's not bringing us
(19:56):
together.
And we see that a lot of courseat every level of system that
we live and work and lead in.
And I think that is somethingthat is powerful with this work.
That kind of helps to shiftthat, to help individuals
realize that we're not askingyou to give up what you value
and who you see yourself as.
We're asking you to expand andmake space for something else,
(20:19):
something more.
Chantée Christian (20:20):
No, and I love that, because in a lot of
the leadership coaching orexecutive coaching that I do, I
like to just say it's peoplecoaching.
I coach people with whateverthey come with.
That's what we're talking about.
But one of the biggest commonthemes that I have seen is that
people don't know who they are.
So when you say that, I'm likesometimes they don't even
(20:42):
realize that that is how they'reidentifying, because they
identify themselves as a spouse,a partner, a parent, a title.
So I have this thing where I sayit's a who are you exercise,
and it doesn't matter who theclient is.
We get to some version of thisat some point in our time
(21:05):
together, because I'm like, hmm,I heard something, I heard
something and I'm curious.
But I tell them to take thosefour off the table and then tell
me who they are.
And they look at me like I havefive heads and they're like
well, what do you need?
Like give me an example?
Well, you want me to give youan example of who you are, and
(21:27):
so how do you all help peoplereally identify what that thing
is that they are attachingthemselves to?
Dionne Galloway (21:40):
I'd say the first thing is just around
awareness.
The word like polarization andthings like that is nothing new,
but I don't think it'ssomething that we often pull in
front of us and think like, howdoes this then apply to me?
So they, the first piece, isaround, like the awareness of
polarities at play, and usuallywe often just generate list of
(22:01):
like at the conference we hadhere are some of the polarities
that show up in our humanity, orhere are some of the polarities
that show up, you know, inleadership.
And as people usually scanthose lists, they're like hmm,
already a light bulb starts togo off.
It's a light bulb momentGetting people to play with
different polarities.
Like we utilize a tool calledthe Polarity Navigator, which
(22:22):
essentially is a sense-makingtool that allows people to kind
of pull apart a polarity, reallyunderstand it better,
understand their relationship toit and then ultimately find a
way to kind of integrate it sothat they're kind of picking up
a new mindset, a new way ofbeing that drives different
actions and different results.
And so like, especially withteams, when we're coming in and
(22:44):
they're saying you know, we'rehaving a lot of tension.
I'll give you an example Like Ihad a team.
There was a creative departmentand a marketing department and
one is like if they would onlygive us some deadlines, if we
could just map out the year, ifthey would just create a process
, things would run a lotsmoother.
We had the other team on theother side is like if they could
(23:06):
just be more agile we'redealing with some external
things If they could be moreagile, if they could run a
little bit faster, if we couldjust sort of iterate, things
would be so much better.
And as you're having thoseconversations, you can kind of
surface like, hmm, this feelslike the energy of a polarity as
opposed to a problem, and thenyou just kind of pull it out and
(23:26):
say, well, let's explore this.
What are some of the benefits,the healthy benefits that come
from a healthy focus on this onepole.
Okay, well, what are some ofthe good things, the healthy
things that come from a healthyfocus on this other pole?
And like getting them exploring, and you'd find through that
process people start to realize,oh, I have an attachment
(23:47):
towards this particular pole.
And I would say the last thing,that we've done a lot in the
last couple of years.
Andiron has launched a toolcalled the Key Polarity
Indicator.
It's an assessment and that isalso a tool that we use in
systems to really help leadersand individuals see.
And so right now there's boththe leadership key polarity
(24:09):
indicator assessment as well asthe human key polarity indicator
assessment, and it gives youdata for six key polarities that
show up in leadership, as wellas six key polarities that show
up in our humanity, and it'slike, based off of these
behavioral statements, you cando it as a 360 or even a
self-assessment, if you're justcurious to really understand.
(24:31):
What are some of the polaritiesthat are up for me, and these
are, through our research, onesthat we commonly see so like,
for example, in leadership, yousee things like action and
reflection, exude competence,exude warmth, challenge, support
, direct and empower Things thatyou often see in leadership
that come up In our humanity.
(24:51):
There's things likeresponsibility, forgiveness,
hope, reality, desire more,appreciate what is, and you go
through this to understand like,where might I be over indexing,
where might I have a preference, and then it gives you an
opportunity to explore what'sunderneath that, what's that all
about, and even give you cluesinto.
(25:11):
Is this a true preference thatI hold or is this a preference
that is evolved, based off ofthe system that I'm in.
Well, that's good.
Chantée Christian (25:20):
I think about how many times when we think
about leadership, how peopleadapt their leadership style to
the environments that they're inversus their innate leadership
instinct, and until they have anopportunity to like peel back
that onion layer or just reallybe able to explore it, they're
(25:41):
like no, this is how I lead, Ijust.
It makes my head hurt when Ithink about all the things I
wish that they taught during anMBA program, because no shade to
any MBA programs, including myown.
Leadership is amazing, however,the ability to actually help
(26:11):
people identify what they arenaturally in state to do, versus
how they can cater that andtailor it to be more effective
overall.
One is paying attention, right,like actually say, ok, I'm
noticing something here.
(26:31):
What's happening?
Right, really moving from aspace of curiosity versus
defensiveness, because I have tobe right, I know all the
answers.
Who are you, who are thesepeople?
And they're everywhereself-included.
(26:52):
Right, there was a moment wherethat was me too and, depending
on the project, sometimes Istill am a work of progress too.
It's so important, I think, forone of the things that you said
that I just want to make surethat we don't miss.
That is we're all doing thiswork and it is a space where
(27:13):
awareness literally does shiftour perspective, if we allow it
and when given the opportunityto explore it.
I like to think of awarenesslike a little searchlight Once
it just has a little bit oflight on you, it won't let you
go, and so you're going to haveto confront and deal with the
(27:35):
thing at some point.
Groundbreaking and important,because, like you said, there's
so many times where you go toworkshops or you go to a
presentation and you walk awaylike, oh, I got a new sentence,
(27:57):
I got a new little buzzword, andthat's it.
Versus walking away andactually feeling empowered to do
something different and toexplore and to practice, I think
is really important.
Yeah, I like that a lot.
Dionne Galloway (28:13):
Yeah, we'd like to say we're in the work of
transformation and a lot ofpeople you know approach this
idea of transformation indifferent ways.
But really for us it's aboutunderstanding the patterns that
we operate in.
So we've been rewarded forcertain behavior.
We've become successful becauseof our upbringing and our
(28:34):
background.
We experience certain behaviorand in any ways it's like these
things just kind of stick to us.
Chantée Christian (28:41):
Mm, hmm.
Dionne Galloway (28:41):
And we start moving through life, and so the
first thing is to reallyunderstand what is stuck to me.
Chantée Christian (28:48):
Mm, hmm.
Dionne Galloway (28:48):
And is it in service of who I am today or who
I want to be tomorrow, even?
And really having that toughconversation around that, but
also then really understandingall these things that are stuck
to me, like, what are thepatterns that they have me in?
And is this a hindering pattern?
Again, is this something thatis getting in my way?
(29:09):
And so, like, with thatspotlight you just mentioned,
it's like how do I shine a lighton it, something that I might
have been overlooking all thistime, because it's a narrative
playing in the background of whoI am, you know who I should be,
what success looks like.
Again, you know, and I thinkabout a lot of leaders when you
start talking to them they havea big preference for exude,
(29:31):
competence, they havepreferences for action, and
that's because that's what'smodeled for us.
We've really competent, show up, strong, challenge others, act,
move things along and we attachall of those things to us and
they lead us down a path wherewe're demonstrating a pattern
and then you have that sameleader is like I'm getting
(29:51):
feedback that my team doesn'tlike me, everybody's not engaged
, People are burned out and youaren't able to help them.
See, until you really get tothese are the things that are
stuck to us.
This is where they've come fromand this is the pattern that
it's striving.
If we want a different one, wehave to explore and really be
open to the fact that there'sanother perspective here.
(30:13):
In addition to competence, as aleader, you need to exude warmth
.
In addition to acting andmoving the work forward, you
have to make space forreflection and learning.
You know, in addition tochallenging, you know and
raising the bar, we also have toprovide support for our people
within our organization so thatthey can also thrive.
And when you do that and you doit in a way that doesn't leave
(30:36):
people feeling like I have totake off these things, I'm just
adding.
I'm not taking off a competence, I am just adding warmth,
because now I see value in itand I understand it as a
perspective that is equallyvaluable and needed.
Chantée Christian (30:51):
No, that's good.
And when you talked about thetransformation, it made me think
about when you said, around thetime your daughter was born,
you were, like I need to bedoing work that I feel like is
fulfilling, and so, as you havegone through portions of your
transformation, what is it thatyou would say to that version of
(31:13):
you now?
Dionne Galloway (31:15):
So many things where you say where do you start
?
Where do you start with theadvice, the advice to self?
I'm like you know, if that Dionhad the playbook man watch out,
she would be something elseright now.
But in all seriousness, I thinkI would really just allow
myself to pause.
We're so used to movement,we're so used to this idea of
(31:39):
where we should be, what weshould be doing, so forth, and I
think, without knowing it, Iwas doing that in this moment.
But pausing to really justassess, to really check in with
myself around, is this importantto me?
At the time it felt like anexternal driver, because I
literally Shonda.
I said if I'm going to takethis six month old baby to
(31:59):
daycare every day, you know, andleave her in the care of others
for hours at a time, it's gotto be worth.
It's got to be more than, orfor more than, this paycheck.
I have to feel like I'm inservice of something, I'm doing
something, and so I think justhaving that opportunity to pause
, having that opportunity toreflect and hopefully tap into
(32:21):
that voice of power that is alsoair but sometimes is diminished
, that's what I would tellmyself.
It's just to lean into thatpause and to tap into that voice
of power.
Allow myself to take up morespace to step into my voice and
to step into what's next and tonot play that.
What if game?
(32:41):
Just allow it to be, becausebeautiful things emerge once.
I started to do that.
Chantée Christian (32:49):
As you were saying that, I was like what
would I tell myself as I wasgoing through that phase and I
think, similar to you, I wouldsay trust, just trust the
process instead of fighting it,because it's going to happen.
How long it takes you to getthere is going to slowly be up
(33:10):
to you, because, similar to you,I was a comm major and PR
specifically, but I didn't doanything specific with it until
five years ago, and so I didn'tknow what I could do.
Then, though, like I would havetold myself to be a little more
(33:30):
risky, and it always works outLike it always works out how I
planned it.
Maybe not, and yet, and stillit always works out.
So one last question before wewrap up what do you want to tell
your daughter, as she isexploring life and watching you
(33:55):
be the boss that you are?
What do you want to tell herand little girls like her?
Dionne Galloway (34:02):
I feel like all of the hard-hitting questions
you're asking me.
I'm like man, this is a big one.
Honestly.
I think about it often, likethe nuggets that I want to leave
for her, and it all centers andcomes back to sort of just her
leaning into who she wants to beand not feeling like she has to
(34:24):
model herself or shrink herselfor anything based off of all of
these preconceived notions ofwhat a woman and a Black woman
at that is supposed to be in theworld, right, and so what I
always just share with her is tobe proud of herself and, at the
(34:44):
end of the day, is she proud ofwhat she's done?
Maybe what she decided not todo?
Whatever it is, it's just beproud of yourself, and I think
that that's one of those thingsthat, as she's growing and sort
of leaning into trusting theprocess and moving forward, if
she can look back for thosemoments, because I feel like
that was something that I neededwhen I kept telling myself, no,
(35:05):
it was when I could stop andlook back and say, but I was
proud of myself when I did that.
I was proud of myself when Ididn't do that.
So it's like that moment oflike you have good judgment yeah
, you can do this and buildingthat sort of self-reliance, in a
way, knowing that she has acommunity, knowing that a
community is powerful, butreally at its core and at its
(35:28):
center, just trusting andbelieving in herself and being
proud of whatever she brings tothe table, regardless of what
anyone else says she should orshouldn't be doing.
Chantée Christian (35:39):
Yeah, that's good, and it's a perfect segue
into me asking you our lastquestion, and it's a perfect
segue into me asking you ourlast question.
So we talked about a few things.
What would you like to leavethe people with?
Dionne Galloway (35:53):
I would say that what this is all about,
this conversation, everything isall about awareness.
I want to leave people with aninvitation to tap into and
explore themselves, to take thismoment, even once they turn off
this episode and put down theirpen from all the notes that
(36:16):
they've hopefully been taking,and just pause and tap into
themselves.
Chantée Christian (36:27):
Appreciating again what is and giving space
to desire more.
That's good.
Dionne Galloway (36:33):
Where can they find you?
I am online LinkedIn.
You know all of the things.
People can find me and connectAlso through my organization,
andiron.
It's just andironcom, and manytimes people are like what is an
andiron?
And so those who are curiousit's those metal bars that sit
(36:57):
in a fireplace that hold up thelogs and allow sort of the
oxygen and air to circulate, forthe fire to breathe and burn
brighter, and that is what wetry to do is create the space
for teams, organizations andleaders to burn brighter.
So if you ever want to contactme there, please feel free to do
that, but I'm always welcome tofolks reaching out on LinkedIn
as well.
Chantée Christian (37:15):
I love that, and we'll have your information
inside of the podcast notes, sono worries if you didn't catch
that, and I believe I think Icould be wrong.
I'm pretty sure, though, by thetime this episode airs, we
would have either already had orbe just going into the
(37:38):
Conscious Leadership Summit, andso you will also be doing a
presentation there about thepolarities, so it's also an
opportunity for people toexperience you in live action,
which I'm super excited about,and I'm just truly, truly
thankful that you just said yesto coming on the podcast and
(38:00):
talking with me, and I learnedso much.
I'm like I gotta go out and dosomething, go get some coffee or
something, because I didn'tknow you were down the street,
but I really do appreciate youand thank you for showing up.
Dionne Galloway (38:13):
Absolutely.
I appreciate the invitation and, like I said, I stopped telling
myself no.
Chantée Christian (38:25):
So I got the opportunity to join, I said
absolutely yes, this is for meand I'm glad I'm here.
Listen, you might hear thatsound bite.
Absolutely yes.
Oh, my goodness, I'm sothankful.
I enjoy talking with Dionneabout the power of
self-awareness and embracingboth and thinking.
Her insights on betting onyourself, navigating career
(38:47):
transitions and unlockingleadership potential were truly
insightful.
Thank you for joining us andremember to stop doing shit that
doesn't serve you.
For more information or ifyou'd like to reach out to us,
visit at mybestsh shiftunderscore LLC on Instagram.
(39:09):
See you later.
Welcome to the My Best Shift podcast.
I'm your host, ChantéeChristian.
In today's episode, I'll betalking about how our mindsets
drive our actions with Dionne.
Hi Dionne, how are you?
Dionne Galloway (00:17):
you doing today .
I am fantastic, Chantée.
How are you?
Chantée Christian (00:22):
I am doing well.
So before we get too far intoour conversation, why don't you
tell the people a little bitabout yourself?
Dionne Galloway (00:29):
I would love to .
So I am a Cleveland native,transplant to the Washington DC
area where I reside, actuallynow in Maryland for the past.
In Maryland for the past.
We're going on three years now,but I've been in the area for
almost 25 years.
So at what point do I let go ofCleveland?
(00:50):
I don't know, maybe never butlive here with my husband and
two children and just love thearea, love the energy of it.
So that is in part, why I neverleft.
What else is important to share?
I am the vice president of bothand leadership for an
organization called Andiron andthat is just a fancy way of
(01:10):
saying that I work with leadersand organizations and teams to
bring more both and energy.
So how can we hold and maintainmultiple states, multiple
perspectives, multiple ideas astrue and use that to fuel how we
connect and collaborate, leadand learn together?
Have been doing that work formaybe about two and a half years
(01:33):
now, but have been in theleadership, development and
organizational development spacefor several years.
And the last thing I think isimportant to say that I always
find fascinating because life isjust a winding journey is that
this is actually my third career, so I have started over many
times.
I have bet on myself many timesand I'm happy to say that I
(01:55):
have found my calling in serviceof others and service of
organizations and really helpingindividuals thrive.
Chantée Christian (02:04):
So again, happy to be here.
Oh, my goodness, like I'm like,how do I not know any of that?
I mean, wow, okay.
So I have to ask this firstbeing from Cleveland does it
make you a Cleveland Browns?
Dionne Galloway (02:19):
fan Ah, it does , it does.
There's no getting around it.
There's no getting around it,do you see?
Chantée Christian (02:27):
my hat so you all can't see my hat out there
in the world.
But I have on a Steelers hatbecause if you know me, you know
that I am a diehard Steelersfan.
So as soon as she said she wasfrom Cleveland, like a piece of
me, like just clutched up andwanted to just curl up.
Dionne Galloway (02:45):
I'm still happy to be here, though I'm still
happy to be here.
Chantée Christian (02:50):
I am happy for you to be here.
First of all, I didn't realizethat you were in the area.
I also thought that you were inTexas or other than being in
the DMV, and so hello neighbor,hello neighbor.
And then the other thing that Ijust found just so amazing
because I think a lot of peopleare in hunt of it is
(03:13):
understanding and findingclarity within their purpose.
And so you were going throughyour process of reinventing and
discovery.
Like what did that look likefor you?
Dionne Galloway (03:26):
It's funny that you ask that, because I feel
like I have this conversationoften in many different ways,
even when the question is notasked sort of as clearly and
beautifully as you just did, butespecially like in coaching
conversations or when talking toothers, I'm always laughing
that you can never make sense ofyour journey, sort of when
you're looking forward, there'sno way to tell, there's no way
(03:47):
to plan, there's no way to know.
But when you're able to justkind of pause and look back,
it's amazing how many of thethings that are revealed.
And so I think for me it wasjust a process of I'll reiterate
sort of betting on myself andreally taking the time to find
my voice and to step into whatfelt authentic for me.
(04:09):
So I started off my career inpublic relations.
I worked for a federal union,did a lot around communication.
I then sort of transitionedfrom that to doing marketing and
operations and was working fora real estate team for many
years.
And I think that was one of themost pivotal moments when I
(04:31):
said to myself if I'm going towork every day and this is
actually right around the timewhere I had my daughter if I'm
going to go to work every day.
It has to be for more than apaycheck.
It has to be for more than justwhat I'm going to get every two
weeks.
I want to feel fulfilled and Iwant to feel like I'm actually
doing something to improve thisworld that I'm bringing this
(04:53):
little young lady into.
And so I took a leap at thattime to transition from the
private sector to the publicsector.
It had the opportunity stillstaying in operations to work
for community developmentfinance institution and an
affordable housing organization,and that again still spurred
(05:14):
that desire to serve others andto be purposeful in that again,
and I love that work.
The program that sort ofbrought me into that
organization was a learning anddevelopment program.
They really focused on bringingindividuals who historically
worked in the private sector tothe public sector and they
provided us training every monthand that was an aha for me.
(05:37):
I was like, wait, you canprovide training to others and
support to others anddevelopment to others as a
career.
That wasn't something that Iwas aware of and that is where I
started putting things togetherand that's where some of the
magic of what I had done beforestarted to click and really feel
like it was moving me in adirection where maybe exploring
(05:59):
organizational development,exploring leadership development
made sense for me and I againtook that leap and haven't
looked back since.
Chantée Christian (06:07):
I love that and it reminds me of something
that I do with some of myclients, but it's because I did
it and it is literally taking alook back at every job that
they've ever held, even startingwith the very first one, and
pulling out just what did theylove about it?
(06:29):
Going back to just thinkinglike, what about it did you like
Before?
You hated it, before you wantedto leave, before you didn't
like your boss or whatever thething was before they didn't
promote you, what did you likeabout it?
What drew you to the work?
And when you do that and youlook over the time, you realize
there's some common themes hereand while it may not be as clear
(06:53):
as a purpose statement, it getsyou really close to
understanding that there's muchmore of a connection, regardless
of where you are in your careerand how you've shifted, than
you actually are most of thetime aware of.
I laugh because I always say Ihad a business before my best
shift and I didn't do anythingwith it and that was my first
(07:15):
business.
But that's not true.
My very first business wasbabysitting and I had a
certificate.
Then I was like I can do CPR onthis.
I'm ready, let me go get thisprinter Because I need people to
know that I can charge themhigher, babysit their kids.
But when I think about it, andover the years, everything that
(07:36):
I've done has had a sense ofservice in it.
Right, it has had this sense ofindependence in it and wanting
to help people, and in theprocess I didn't realize that
right In my mind.
I'm just moving along and doingthe thing and it took some life
(08:02):
changes to occur for me to sitdown and like literally walk
through, like okay, why am Ihere?
Why was I put here?
Because there has to besomething other than mentoring.
It has to be something otherthan opening up Excel
spreadsheets and managingprojects, because this is not.
It Like something else got tohappen.
But I think it's just such apowerful point I think it was
(08:24):
Mark Twain that said there aretwo really powerful pivotal
moments in someone's life whenthey're born is when they find
out what their purpose in lifeis, and I always add the third
one is when they have thecourage to actually walk in that
purpose.
I literally tilt my hat off toyou, because you said it twice
(08:46):
that you bet on yourself.
What did that look like?
Dionne Galloway (08:50):
Yeah, it was a long journey.
I want to be really clear.
Like very early in my career, Iused to tell myself no all the
time.
I was very much a person whowould no, dionne, you can't go
after that opportunity.
No, you shouldn't apply forthat job.
No, don't raise your hand.
You know, like your voice isn'tneeded in this moment.
(09:13):
And so it was a very long andsometimes very hard journey of
getting to a space of realizingthat I have power, like there is
power within me, there's poweraround me, there are people who
want to see me succeed, and thefirst step to tapping into that,
(09:34):
to that power, to accessing thehelp and support of others,
really relied on me firststopping the, the no's, stopping
the you can't, you won't.
What if all of that?
And quieting that noise, andreally one once that's quiet,
really thinking about and reallyjust kind of getting clear on
(09:55):
what I've been able to do, kindof like reassess and reevaluate.
And look at your track recordtoo.
It's like you've done a lot,you're capable of a lot, and I
believe that you can even domore, and so the only thing
that's standing in your way inthis moment is you DM.
So stop telling yourself, no,and just put yourself out there
(10:17):
and really having thatconversation around like what's
the worst that could happen, youknow, playing out that worst
case scenario and doing itanyway.
And I think that when I starteddoing that, when I started
listening to my champions whowere saying you could do this,
when I started listening to thatother voice in my head that was
(10:38):
also saying you are capable,that is when I started to move
and shift into this space of I'mwilling and able to bet on
myself.
Now I'm willing to put myselfout there to try it, to do it.
That was difficult for me, youknow, for a lot of reasons.
I still, to this day, have notimpact all of the whys behind it
, but it was a journey and I'mjust thankful that I've arrived
(11:02):
at this moment.
It's not all perfect and I'mjust thankful that I've arrived
at this moment.
It's not all perfect and I knowthat I don't have to be, but I
do respect myself even andcelebrate myself for all that
I've been able to do andaccomplish and how I move the
needle on feeling more secure inwho I am and what I can bring
to the table and what I canoffer the world, and that has
(11:23):
been so liberating and sofulfilling in so many world, and
that has been so liberating andso fulfilling in so many ways.
It's so good.
Chantée Christian (11:29):
That's so good.
You're right, you don't have tobe perfect.
You got to move, though.
You got to do, because that'swhen and where the magic is, and
that self-critic and thatself-talk that we have I say we
because everyone has it rightwhat we do with it is sometimes
(11:52):
a lot the same, and so beingable to be in a space to say,
well, let me prove you wrong,like, just hold on a second,
because I know you're here toprotect me for something.
Something happened that this isa trigger for Cool, cool, cool,
but right here, right now, letme see what I can do, that's one
(12:12):
of the things that I love aboutthe polarities, because, as a
lot of my clients know, I lovethe word, and it's rare that I
say but unless I really mean it,because all things can be true
at the same time.
And when we start saying, but wenegate everything that we have
(12:37):
said or acknowledged before thatwhen they, too, still hold
weight in our lives.
And so when I met you at aconference and I was like this
is amazing, what you all do isamazing I was like more people
need to hear about this, because, outside of just leadership
(12:59):
right, because when I thinkabout leadership.
I think about it being one howwe lead ourselves and and then
two how we can influence andlead others.
And it doesn't matter thetitles that we hold right.
It literally is how we show upevery day and how we continually
(13:19):
, to your point, do the workwhen we have solved it all.
We are on our deathbed and westill haven't solved it all,
right, and we still had a saltat all right.
But we live in a space whereit's so important to be able to
acknowledge it and to understandwhere it's coming from and then
to work with it, not against it, absolutely.
Dionne Galloway (13:46):
So tell us a little bit more about the
polarities that you work with inyour role.
Yeah, one of the things that Ialways say is like, we know, and
we fully acknowledge that inlife there are absolute problems
there are, there are problemsat every level of system that
require us to solve, require usto dig in and operate from that
space of either, or.
I think oftentimes we applythat thinking, though, to
(14:10):
everything and to your point.
It's like that is so limiting,and so what I always say is,
while everything is not apolarity, polarities are
everywhere, and the more that webuild our capacity and
capabilities around seeing themand working them and making
sense of them, not only is itfreeing for ourselves, but it's
(14:32):
so powerful when you think aboutthe ways in which we work and
we live and we lead, and I justfeel so honored to be in this
space to be able to do this work, because, unlike in a lot of
ways, just when you think about,like, traditional leadership
development, you have someonecome in and it's like we need to
do a module on feedback orimplicit bias or on change
(14:56):
management.
You know there's a specifictopic.
You come in, you do a bunch ofwork.
It's like everybody should bedoing this.
This is a problem to be solved.
Let's go in and fix it and kindof run down the list of things
to do.
You leave that session.
You may have picked up a coupleof tidbits, but at the end of
the day it doesn't actually gettraction, it doesn't make
movement.
(15:16):
And what I love about thepolarity lens and both and
thinking is that it helps tounlock why we're getting stuck
with a lot of those commonchallenges.
It helps us to dig underneath it, to really understand what's
the root cause that's driving usto operate in this space of
tension, to operate in thisspace of my way or your way, to
(15:39):
operate in this polarized spacethat gets us stuck and doesn't
allow us to move forward.
And so I just love operating inthis space, helping people to
see polarities and also thenunderstand how to make sense of
it and the light bulbs that justgo off.
I can't tell you, shante, howmany times people come to me at
(16:00):
the end of a session and say nowI know why my old coworker and
I just did not get along.
She really valued stability andI really value change, and we
constantly were talking at eachother instead of with each other
, not recognizing that there'sso many benefits to stability
(16:21):
and there's so many benefits tochange.
And how can we make space forboth, to honor what both of us
want in this situation and avoidany of those like overuses or
those unintended consequencesthat can come when we just over
focus on one and so it just canbe really powerful to kind of
play in that space.
(16:41):
That's so good, that's so sogood.
Chantée Christian (16:45):
I recently wrote an article around
leadership DNA.
Well, more so walking the talk,right?
So just transformativeleadership.
I do a workshop on it too, andso one of the things that you
said that really, reallyresonated with me is, when
people value something differentthan us and we don't realize it
(17:09):
, we start to hold them to theseunarticulated and agreed upon
expectations of how they oughtto be, based off of our lens,
not realizing.
One, they didn't agree to it.
Two, they don't even know thatthat's what we're thinking,
because that's not their value,right, that's not their thing of
(17:39):
importance in a moment.
And so it's so important totake a step back, because a lot
of times when we're in thesespaces of resistance or
disagreement, we're usually notin disagreement about the same
thing, and people don't realizethat because they think that, oh
well, we're in a conversationabout this thing, or then it has
to be that you just don'tunderstand my reasoning when
that's not the case, right?
(18:00):
I see you just shaking yourhead.
Dionne Galloway (18:03):
And then we just talk louder.
It's like, let me reiterate mypoint, let me share my value
again.
If I say it louder, if I say itmore, if I say it in a way that
is intimidating, even you'llhear me then one right or best
solution here this is somethingthat's unsolvable, that we have
to pay attention to, that'sgoing to take work over time,
(18:35):
and that there's value in bothperspectives.
And it's like, how do we getpeople to see that?
And I love what you just shared, because it also kind of
connects to how, in addition tosort of it, sits with our values
.
A lot of the aspects of thesepolarities attach to our
identity.
Yeah, about, for example, likeflexibility and structure.
(18:55):
I really value flexibility andif somebody says, deon, describe
yourself.
I'm like, oh, I'm a creative,I'm adaptable, I'm all of those
things.
Like it's part of my identity.
Now, and I hear, or sometimesI'm up against someone who has a
really strong preference forstructure, I can begin to see a
threat to that especially.
(19:15):
They're asking me to change.
It was almost like a threat,like wait a minute, you want me
to be rigid, you want things tobe confining.
I can't be creative.
Like then I start shutting downand if we're not talking with
each other around the benefitsof both, because there's
absolutely my logical mind knowsthere's plenty of benefits to
(19:36):
structure, you know you canmaintain some control, you can,
you know, keep efficienciesthere, like there's definitely
benefits.
But if we're talking at eachother I might not be able to see
that.
All I hear is a threat to who Iam and I'm going to shut and
again possibly talk louder orretreat and it's not bringing us
(19:56):
together.
And we see that a lot of courseat every level of system that
we live and work and lead in.
And I think that is somethingthat is powerful with this work.
That kind of helps to shiftthat, to help individuals
realize that we're not askingyou to give up what you value
and who you see yourself as.
We're asking you to expand andmake space for something else,
(20:19):
something more.
Chantée Christian (20:20):
No, and I love that, because in a lot of
the leadership coaching orexecutive coaching that I do, I
like to just say it's peoplecoaching.
I coach people with whateverthey come with.
That's what we're talking about.
But one of the biggest commonthemes that I have seen is that
people don't know who they are.
So when you say that, I'm likesometimes they don't even
(20:42):
realize that that is how they'reidentifying, because they
identify themselves as a spouse,a partner, a parent, a title.
So I have this thing where I sayit's a who are you exercise,
and it doesn't matter who theclient is.
We get to some version of thisat some point in our time
(21:05):
together, because I'm like, hmm,I heard something, I heard
something and I'm curious.
But I tell them to take thosefour off the table and then tell
me who they are.
And they look at me like I havefive heads and they're like
well, what do you need?
Like give me an example?
Well, you want me to give youan example of who you are, and
(21:27):
so how do you all help peoplereally identify what that thing
is that they are attachingthemselves to?
Dionne Galloway (21:40):
I'd say the first thing is just around
awareness.
The word like polarization andthings like that is nothing new,
but I don't think it'ssomething that we often pull in
front of us and think like, howdoes this then apply to me?
So they, the first piece, isaround, like the awareness of
polarities at play, and usuallywe often just generate list of
(22:01):
like at the conference we hadhere are some of the polarities
that show up in our humanity, orhere are some of the polarities
that show up, you know, inleadership.
And as people usually scanthose lists, they're like hmm,
already a light bulb starts togo off.
It's a light bulb momentGetting people to play with
different polarities.
Like we utilize a tool calledthe Polarity Navigator, which
(22:22):
essentially is a sense-makingtool that allows people to kind
of pull apart a polarity, reallyunderstand it better,
understand their relationship toit and then ultimately find a
way to kind of integrate it sothat they're kind of picking up
a new mindset, a new way ofbeing that drives different
actions and different results.
And so like, especially withteams, when we're coming in and
(22:44):
they're saying you know, we'rehaving a lot of tension.
I'll give you an example Like Ihad a team.
There was a creative departmentand a marketing department and
one is like if they would onlygive us some deadlines, if we
could just map out the year, ifthey would just create a process
, things would run a lotsmoother.
We had the other team on theother side is like if they could
(23:06):
just be more agile we'redealing with some external
things If they could be moreagile, if they could run a
little bit faster, if we couldjust sort of iterate, things
would be so much better.
And as you're having thoseconversations, you can kind of
surface like, hmm, this feelslike the energy of a polarity as
opposed to a problem, and thenyou just kind of pull it out and
(23:26):
say, well, let's explore this.
What are some of the benefits,the healthy benefits that come
from a healthy focus on this onepole.
Okay, well, what are some ofthe good things, the healthy
things that come from a healthyfocus on this other pole?
And like getting them exploring, and you'd find through that
process people start to realize,oh, I have an attachment
(23:47):
towards this particular pole.
And I would say the last thing,that we've done a lot in the
last couple of years.
Andiron has launched a toolcalled the Key Polarity
Indicator.
It's an assessment and that isalso a tool that we use in
systems to really help leadersand individuals see.
And so right now there's boththe leadership key polarity
(24:09):
indicator assessment as well asthe human key polarity indicator
assessment, and it gives youdata for six key polarities that
show up in leadership, as wellas six key polarities that show
up in our humanity, and it'slike, based off of these
behavioral statements, you cando it as a 360 or even a
self-assessment, if you're justcurious to really understand.
(24:31):
What are some of the polaritiesthat are up for me, and these
are, through our research, onesthat we commonly see so like,
for example, in leadership, yousee things like action and
reflection, exude competence,exude warmth, challenge, support
, direct and empower Things thatyou often see in leadership
that come up In our humanity.
(24:51):
There's things likeresponsibility, forgiveness,
hope, reality, desire more,appreciate what is, and you go
through this to understand like,where might I be over indexing,
where might I have a preference, and then it gives you an
opportunity to explore what'sunderneath that, what's that all
about, and even give you cluesinto.
(25:11):
Is this a true preference thatI hold or is this a preference
that is evolved, based off ofthe system that I'm in.
Well, that's good.
Chantée Christian (25:20):
I think about how many times when we think
about leadership, how peopleadapt their leadership style to
the environments that they're inversus their innate leadership
instinct, and until they have anopportunity to like peel back
that onion layer or just reallybe able to explore it, they're
(25:41):
like no, this is how I lead, Ijust.
It makes my head hurt when Ithink about all the things I
wish that they taught during anMBA program, because no shade to
any MBA programs, including myown.
Leadership is amazing, however,the ability to actually help
(26:11):
people identify what they arenaturally in state to do, versus
how they can cater that andtailor it to be more effective
overall.
One is paying attention, right,like actually say, ok, I'm
noticing something here.
(26:31):
What's happening?
Right, really moving from aspace of curiosity versus
defensiveness, because I have tobe right, I know all the
answers.
Who are you, who are thesepeople?
And they're everywhereself-included.
(26:52):
Right, there was a moment wherethat was me too and, depending
on the project, sometimes Istill am a work of progress too.
It's so important, I think, forone of the things that you said
that I just want to make surethat we don't miss.
That is we're all doing thiswork and it is a space where
(27:13):
awareness literally does shiftour perspective, if we allow it
and when given the opportunityto explore it.
I like to think of awarenesslike a little searchlight Once
it just has a little bit oflight on you, it won't let you
go, and so you're going to haveto confront and deal with the
(27:35):
thing at some point.
Groundbreaking and important,because, like you said, there's
so many times where you go toworkshops or you go to a
presentation and you walk awaylike, oh, I got a new sentence,
(27:57):
I got a new little buzzword, andthat's it.
Versus walking away andactually feeling empowered to do
something different and toexplore and to practice, I think
is really important.
Yeah, I like that a lot.
Dionne Galloway (28:13):
Yeah, we'd like to say we're in the work of
transformation and a lot ofpeople you know approach this
idea of transformation indifferent ways.
But really for us it's aboutunderstanding the patterns that
we operate in.
So we've been rewarded forcertain behavior.
We've become successful becauseof our upbringing and our
(28:34):
background.
We experience certain behaviorand in any ways it's like these
things just kind of stick to us.
Chantée Christian (28:41):
Mm, hmm.
Dionne Galloway (28:41):
And we start moving through life, and so the
first thing is to reallyunderstand what is stuck to me.
Chantée Christian (28:48):
Mm, hmm.
Dionne Galloway (28:48):
And is it in service of who I am today or who
I want to be tomorrow, even?
And really having that toughconversation around that, but
also then really understandingall these things that are stuck
to me, like, what are thepatterns that they have me in?
And is this a hindering pattern?
Again, is this something thatis getting in my way?
(29:09):
And so, like, with thatspotlight you just mentioned,
it's like how do I shine a lighton it, something that I might
have been overlooking all thistime, because it's a narrative
playing in the background of whoI am, you know who I should be,
what success looks like.
Again, you know, and I thinkabout a lot of leaders when you
start talking to them they havea big preference for exude,
(29:31):
competence, they havepreferences for action, and
that's because that's what'smodeled for us.
We've really competent, show up, strong, challenge others, act,
move things along and we attachall of those things to us and
they lead us down a path wherewe're demonstrating a pattern
and then you have that sameleader is like I'm getting
(29:51):
feedback that my team doesn'tlike me, everybody's not engaged
, People are burned out and youaren't able to help them.
See, until you really get tothese are the things that are
stuck to us.
This is where they've come fromand this is the pattern that
it's striving.
If we want a different one, wehave to explore and really be
open to the fact that there'sanother perspective here.
(30:13):
In addition to competence, as aleader, you need to exude warmth
.
In addition to acting andmoving the work forward, you
have to make space forreflection and learning.
You know, in addition tochallenging, you know and
raising the bar, we also have toprovide support for our people
within our organization so thatthey can also thrive.
And when you do that and you doit in a way that doesn't leave
(30:36):
people feeling like I have totake off these things, I'm just
adding.
I'm not taking off a competence, I am just adding warmth,
because now I see value in itand I understand it as a
perspective that is equallyvaluable and needed.
Chantée Christian (30:51):
No, that's good.
And when you talked about thetransformation, it made me think
about when you said, around thetime your daughter was born,
you were, like I need to bedoing work that I feel like is
fulfilling, and so, as you havegone through portions of your
transformation, what is it thatyou would say to that version of
(31:13):
you now?
Dionne Galloway (31:15):
So many things where you say where do you start
?
Where do you start with theadvice, the advice to self?
I'm like you know, if that Dionhad the playbook man watch out,
she would be something elseright now.
But in all seriousness, I thinkI would really just allow
myself to pause.
We're so used to movement,we're so used to this idea of
(31:39):
where we should be, what weshould be doing, so forth, and I
think, without knowing it, Iwas doing that in this moment.
But pausing to really justassess, to really check in with
myself around, is this importantto me?
At the time it felt like anexternal driver, because I
literally Shonda.
I said if I'm going to takethis six month old baby to
(31:59):
daycare every day, you know, andleave her in the care of others
for hours at a time, it's gotto be worth.
It's got to be more than, orfor more than, this paycheck.
I have to feel like I'm inservice of something, I'm doing
something, and so I think justhaving that opportunity to pause
, having that opportunity toreflect and hopefully tap into
(32:21):
that voice of power that is alsoair but sometimes is diminished
, that's what I would tellmyself.
It's just to lean into thatpause and to tap into that voice
of power.
Allow myself to take up morespace to step into my voice and
to step into what's next and tonot play that.
What if game?
(32:41):
Just allow it to be, becausebeautiful things emerge once.
I started to do that.
Chantée Christian (32:49):
As you were saying that, I was like what
would I tell myself as I wasgoing through that phase and I
think, similar to you, I wouldsay trust, just trust the
process instead of fighting it,because it's going to happen.
How long it takes you to getthere is going to slowly be up
(33:10):
to you, because, similar to you,I was a comm major and PR
specifically, but I didn't doanything specific with it until
five years ago, and so I didn'tknow what I could do.
Then, though, like I would havetold myself to be a little more
(33:30):
risky, and it always works outLike it always works out how I
planned it.
Maybe not, and yet, and stillit always works out.
So one last question before wewrap up what do you want to tell
your daughter, as she isexploring life and watching you
(33:55):
be the boss that you are?
What do you want to tell herand little girls like her?
Dionne Galloway (34:02):
I feel like all of the hard-hitting questions
you're asking me.
I'm like man, this is a big one.
Honestly.
I think about it often, likethe nuggets that I want to leave
for her, and it all centers andcomes back to sort of just her
leaning into who she wants to beand not feeling like she has to
(34:24):
model herself or shrink herselfor anything based off of all of
these preconceived notions ofwhat a woman and a Black woman
at that is supposed to be in theworld, right, and so what I
always just share with her is tobe proud of herself and, at the
(34:44):
end of the day, is she proud ofwhat she's done?
Maybe what she decided not todo?
Whatever it is, it's just beproud of yourself, and I think
that that's one of those thingsthat, as she's growing and sort
of leaning into trusting theprocess and moving forward, if
she can look back for thosemoments, because I feel like
that was something that I neededwhen I kept telling myself, no,
(35:05):
it was when I could stop andlook back and say, but I was
proud of myself when I did that.
I was proud of myself when Ididn't do that.
So it's like that moment oflike you have good judgment yeah
, you can do this and buildingthat sort of self-reliance, in a
way, knowing that she has acommunity, knowing that a
community is powerful, butreally at its core and at its
(35:28):
center, just trusting andbelieving in herself and being
proud of whatever she brings tothe table, regardless of what
anyone else says she should orshouldn't be doing.
Chantée Christian (35:39):
Yeah, that's good, and it's a perfect segue
into me asking you our lastquestion, and it's a perfect
segue into me asking you ourlast question.
So we talked about a few things.
What would you like to leavethe people with?
Dionne Galloway (35:53):
I would say that what this is all about,
this conversation, everything isall about awareness.
I want to leave people with aninvitation to tap into and
explore themselves, to take thismoment, even once they turn off
this episode and put down theirpen from all the notes that
(36:16):
they've hopefully been taking,and just pause and tap into
themselves.
Chantée Christian (36:27):
Appreciating again what is and giving space
to desire more.
That's good.
Dionne Galloway (36:33):
Where can they find you?
I am online LinkedIn.
You know all of the things.
People can find me and connectAlso through my organization,
andiron.
It's just andironcom, and manytimes people are like what is an
andiron?
And so those who are curiousit's those metal bars that sit
(36:57):
in a fireplace that hold up thelogs and allow sort of the
oxygen and air to circulate, forthe fire to breathe and burn
brighter, and that is what wetry to do is create the space
for teams, organizations andleaders to burn brighter.
So if you ever want to contactme there, please feel free to do
that, but I'm always welcome tofolks reaching out on LinkedIn
as well.
Chantée Christian (37:15):
I love that, and we'll have your information
inside of the podcast notes, sono worries if you didn't catch
that, and I believe I think Icould be wrong.
I'm pretty sure, though, by thetime this episode airs, we
would have either already had orbe just going into the
(37:38):
Conscious Leadership Summit, andso you will also be doing a
presentation there about thepolarities, so it's also an
opportunity for people toexperience you in live action,
which I'm super excited about,and I'm just truly, truly
thankful that you just said yesto coming on the podcast and
(38:00):
talking with me, and I learnedso much.
I'm like I gotta go out and dosomething, go get some coffee or
something, because I didn'tknow you were down the street,
but I really do appreciate youand thank you for showing up.
Dionne Galloway (38:13):
Absolutely.
I appreciate the invitation and, like I said, I stopped telling
myself no.
Chantée Christian (38:25):
So I got the opportunity to join, I said
absolutely yes, this is for meand I'm glad I'm here.
Listen, you might hear thatsound bite.
Absolutely yes.
Oh, my goodness, I'm sothankful.
I enjoy talking with Dionneabout the power of
self-awareness and embracingboth and thinking.
Her insights on betting onyourself, navigating career
(38:47):
transitions and unlockingleadership potential were truly
insightful.
Thank you for joining us andremember to stop doing shit that
doesn't serve you.
For more information or ifyou'd like to reach out to us,
visit at mybestsh shiftunderscore LLC on Instagram.
(39:09):
See you later.
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