July 12, 2024 • 57 mins
In this episode, John and Mark Gansle continue their conversation and take a heartfelt look at the unique challenges and blessings that come with being a deacon's wife. They discuss how growing closer to God can enhance intimacy, promoting patience, love, and gratitude. They reflect on the powerful practice of praying the Divine Office, showing how praying with the Psalms and canticles can enrich your faith and offer a model for prayer that encompasses all human emotions and binds the universal Church together. Tune in to hear their reflections on religious commitment, the importance of community support, and the challenging, yet rewarding, path of surrendering to God's will.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the my Friend the Friar podcast and
thanks for listening.
If you like my Friend the Friarand want to support us, please
consider subscribing orfollowing us if you haven't
already done so, and if youfound us on YouTube then, don't
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you'll be notified of newepisodes when they release.
Thanks again and God bless.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
They're making honey mustard ones now.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Potato chips.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I can get behind that .
They're good.
Oh, how's your country accent?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How's my country accent?
Why do you want me to say it?
The angel of the Lord.
The angel of the Lord, theangel of the lord, angel of the
lord, the angel of the lord.
But why has it got to be?
Why it's got to be country?
Why couldn't it be I?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
don't know what.
It's because it's betty, betty,she, she gets.
No, it's because it is becauseit's betty, it's because betty
is secretly from the countryy'all.
And so, as she gets moreexcited, that country twang
starts slipping out, and so, asshe's like, who is the angel of
(01:15):
the Lord?
Who?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
is angel of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
And it was just.
I don't know, she's silly.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My wife used to fixate on Cardinal Dolan and the
way he would say the Lord,because it was always in like
that New York Irish accent.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh, what was that?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I got to hear it.
I'm not sure I can do it.
I'm not going to try it whileyou're recording anyways.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, that's funny, I'll have to.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
nolan cardinal, dolan dolan yeah, new york cardinal
okay, I'll have to go look himup he's like really active and
serious exam catholic radio andthat kind of stuff, so like when
we were listening to a lot ofthat.
He'd show up on shows um, butlike his also, like they would
um do the mass, I thinksometimes they'd play it on um
ewtn maybe but it was like itwas from the.
(02:07):
It was, it was from thecathedral in new york, and so
when he would say the mass, itis the lard, the name of the
lard, lard.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, then I that, though the way they say the r,
that that would make sense yeah,who's the angel of the lard?
Yeah, because that's prettygood.
That's pretty good.
Um, that'd be such a weirdepisode if everyone tried to
speak in an accent.
It would just evolve intotomfoolery.
Yeah, the, the whole, the, thesouthern accent, that lord you
(02:39):
know like just so pervasive inmy mind, or jesus, you know you
gotta right, I prefer irish.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, jesus, jesus, mary joseph and all of his
carpenter friends oh, it's sofunny.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Um well, because I forgot it last time, welcome to
the podcast and thanks forjoining me and my friend, mark,
not the, not the fr, not thefriar, not the friar.
Mark, the the layman, the.
Maybe someday, non-layman.
Well, yeah, it's ordained.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is ordained Non-layman.
It's the only Like a deacon isthe only person who could
possibly have received all sevensacraments.
Well, I guess if you werewidowed and you became a priest,
but for most people it's eithermarriage or holy orders.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
All right, I'm going to throw a question at you.
What's the difference betweenconsecration and ordination?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, consecration, so things that are consecrated
are dedicated to God.
Right, they're made holy andthey're made special.
Even I mean even blessing, likeholy water has been set aside
for a purpose, for God's purpose.
Ordination is another seal ofthe Holy Spirit.
It's another indelible mark onyour soul.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm going to start calling you indelible mark now.
Indelible mark was my superheroname, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It wasn't a very good superhero.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You couldn't get him to go away though no, you know
what.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's probably pretty appropriate.
So, yeah, when you'reconsecrated, you're not ordained
, you're not sealed with theHoly Spirit as such, and really
(04:40):
the idea behind the ordinationis we need that additional, that
extra helping of the HolySpirit to support us in our
ministry, whether it's as apriest or as a deacon, or even
if you're ordained a bishop.
You're being called to be evenmore like Christ.
You're being called to do evenmore on behalf of his people.
You're being called to listento God more, to serve more, to
put yourself aside more.
We can't possibly do thatwithout the help of the Holy
(05:00):
Spirit.
We can't possibly be who we'remeant to be.
We can't truly be who we'remeant to be.
We can't truly be contrite forour sins, like there's nothing
that we can do without the HolySpirit.
Right, st Paul?
Like in weakness, I'm madestrong.
The power of Christ, I mean.
That is the truth of our lives,and so it is.
It's a blessing, but it's ablessing in service of service,
(05:26):
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, there's the reason I was asking, not
necessarily because I didn'tknow, but because I seem to have
been hearing more and more inthe past couple of years of
consecrated virgins, and upuntil a couple of years ago I
hadn't heard of any my wholelife.
(05:47):
And so my daughter, um, had afriend come with us to mass last
weekend or the other weekendand, uh, rev kev had said
something about his friend yeah,he had consecrated I gotta go
because I gotta go do this thing, kind of thing wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
you were at the noon mass.
Was it noon?
Was that noon or was thatSaturday mass?
I feel like it was Saturday.
Oh, you're right, that wasSaturday night mass.
Yeah, I was thinking it wasnoon, because I serve at the
noon mass this week.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Anyway, that was a curiosity because her friend who
came is not Catholic and hadjust never been to a mass before
, and so everyone's like whatthe heck is this?
And so trying to explain likeit's a really cool thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
One, and it's it might.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I wonder what the difference is between that kind
of consecration and the, thevows.
I guess that they take as like,a cloistered nun or something
like that, cause I know she'sstill just goes and lives out in
the world, she's, um, you know,she's going to get a job, go to
(07:02):
work and all that kind of stuff, um, but I wonder, in the the,
the rites, the rituals of it, Iwonder how different it is.
Oh, like what?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
the, the missile, how the missile is different.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, and how, like the whole process and kind, of
kind of thing, Cause I've seen,um, where they prostrate
themselves like a priest doesduring their ordination and
that's, and that's pretty neat.
So anyway, I don't know justthere's all that little bit of I
don't even know how to say itJust how all of that has
(07:34):
developed over time.
Something about that is reallyinteresting to me, because
everything means something, allof it is a sign of something.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It does, and it's all in reaction to God as well, in
a certain different way.
And it makes a lot of sense,once you understand it, that
some people are called to serveGod through cloistered adoration
and prayer and even penance,that they're basically working
(08:06):
on behalf of the world.
You're never going to see them,hopefully.
You know about them, butthey're not there, like they're
as humble as humble can be,because they're trying to pray
and do penitential acts onbehalf of the world, whereas
other people have a charismwhere they're called to serve in
(08:27):
education, right Like theLegionaries of Christ, right
that order, and then the RegnumChristi women.
They serve at the HighlandSchool and they teach and like
they live in the world.
My aunt was who is jillian'sgodmother?
(08:48):
She, um, she was a nun with theuh, incarnate word in corpus
christi.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Pull the mic a little bit.
I can, yes, just a little bitaggressively, yeah aggressive oh
there you go.
Oh, your aunt, your aunt.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So, yeah, so Aunt Mary, sister Rosemary, was at
Incarnate Word in Corpus Christiand we went probably once every
month or two and had lunch withher and had mass with her and
got to meet the sisters, and Iwish Catholics today, kids
(09:25):
growing up, saw more of that andand I kind of like it's
exciting to to hear more aboutit coming out and maybe seeing
you know more of that inpeople's lives so that they can
see like what is, what is itlike to truly abandon your life
to God, to truly give up yourlife to God and then understand
I'm not being asked to do that.
I'm not being asked to do that,I'm just being asked to do a
(09:47):
little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, and I've, I've, I heard it once before
too.
The thing that is it's, it'skind of missing from our church
is, once upon a time, everywherethere were sisters and nuns and
stuff.
So you'd see father and you'dsee mother, right, you'd get the
(10:10):
fullness of all the roleswithin the church.
And there's so few.
But the church I grew up goingto in Flower Bluff, there was a
little convent behind them.
They were all Filipino, that'sthe only thing I can remember.
They're probably Dominican, butI was just.
(10:31):
There was just nuns all overthe place, right, and so you,
under you, you were at leastexposed.
If you didn't understandbecause most kids don't
understand anything that they'reexposed to but you're exposed
to the different roles of thechurch and you have those
beautiful experiences of um,like motherhood, and that
femininity and like what it isuh, to, to, to behave in such a
(10:52):
way.
Um, I thought all that was.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
it was really helpful and it's good and and I wish
and maybe you're right, maybehopefully there's more of that
starting to to come back, but Ithink, think especially with
more of the charismatic Catholicmovement, you see a little bit
more of that, but I mean, it'snot for everyone right.
(11:16):
Like you go through adiscernment process for the
consecrated life, just as youwould for the priesthood or the
diaconate.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And ultimately I mean that's a very Catholic thing.
You know, we expect marriage,that you're discerning before
you make that decision.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, yeah.
When I think in in kind of yourpoint earlier, where I'm not
even being asked to do this,that's helpful to go.
Okay, I know I'm not being, youknow, called to that, or a lot
of times people are just against, like they fight against
perhaps, what they're beingcalled to, but that seed is
(11:54):
planted, but either way, itshows them that there is
something more and just beingexposed to it, especially when
you have people who wear theirhabits, because that recognition
too there's this person setaside.
But then if you are reflectiveabout it, you understand, like
(12:18):
you're baptized, you are setapart as well.
I don't wear a habit, right,but what does it mean to be set
apart in this world?
And then you've got all theseexamples and slowly you can
start integrating these thoughtsand stuff into your lifestyle
yes and it's I mean I thinkthere's.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We should celebrate the differences right.
There are many gifts, but onespirit there are many parts, but
one body.
We tend towards envy or prideor other things that make me
think, well, I'm not doing that,um, but that's not your charism
, that's not what you're calledto do yeah you're called to
serve the world and to serve god, but like there's a great
(12:57):
diversity in the ways that wecan and should serve and um, as
long as we're moving the balldown the field as long as we're
constantly progressing right?
Like are you continuing to takesteps towards God?
Are you taking steps away fromGod?
Like I said, I talked about StIgnatius like are you in
consolation?
Are you moving towards God?
Are you in desolation?
(13:17):
Are you moving away from God?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah.
So today we're going to try andfocus on the integration of
what you've been learning.
So today we're going to try andfocus on the integration of
what you've been learning.
So first, your first vocationis marriage, right?
So how has your diaconateformation so far affected your
vocation of marriage?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I think positively, no-transcript, but I mean having
(14:13):
a conversation about why Imight want to do this and what
it would mean in her life andmaking sure she understood that
I want her to be truthful andhonest about how she feels about
what we're doing, becauseyou're not, I mean you, you.
(14:34):
There are circumstances wherethe deacon's wife is not
prominent, but I bet a dollaryou know at least one or two of
our deacon's wives, right, um,and like that's a burden, like
that's a burden that I want totake on and I can't take that on
if she doesn't want to take onthe burden that necessarily
comes with it of you know,having to be the deacon's wife
(14:58):
and, and she's always so, robinis extremely empathetic.
She, like, she inspiresconfidence, and so she's always
got people coming up to her andtelling her stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Um, it's really kind of weird.
I don't know if you've seen it.
Yeah, it's like people just goto robin and start telling him
every, or telling her everything.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She's an amazing listener and she's so empathetic
and she cares um and she's likeit has a gift for saying the
right thing.
So of course they do um becauseshe makes them feel better and
she's like it has a gift forsaying the right thing.
So of course they do Um causeshe makes them feel better.
She's like a reverse energyvampire, like she is, like she's
not.
She's giving energy all thetime and um, and it's like
(15:36):
that's something that we've gotto talk through.
So we've we have talked a lotmore um about it.
Now I mean it.
It doesn't help that the kidsare both moved out.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Lot more um about it now, I mean it.
It doesn't help that the kidsare both moved out.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It doesn't hurt.
The kids are both moved out,right, so like we've got more
time together, right, and Ithink that's good.
Um, I think that because thiskind of a process, this kind of
focus on God, is going to changeme I think unnecessarily it
changes the way that I relatewith her.
I hope that she finds me morepatient and more loving and more
grateful, but I mean, they'relike I'm, I'm I'm not sure that
(16:17):
I could point to something thatwas like a binary change at any
point that I flipped from oneside to another and I'm just
going to be patient.
That God will work in his timein me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Would you say that, as we and maybe you've
experienced this and this iswhat you're describing as we
grow in our intimacy with God,that we naturally grow in our
intimacy with others?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think it's unavoidable, because God is
communion.
He's love, he's mercy, he's somany things, but he is communion
, three in one, the triune God.
And how can you possibly getcloser to God without being more
(17:04):
communicative of yourself,without wanting to live in
intimacy and union with thosearound you?
Yeah, right, and you talked ona previous episode recently
about the Pope, john Paul II.
I never know where you put thesaint.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's Pope, st John Paul II.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And the theology of the body, and I mean that is
such a fascinating revelationthat God made us man and woman
because he was trying to lead usdown the rosy path.
You know our stupid, limited,broken minds towards what is
true joy it's living incommunion with others, in peace
(17:46):
and harmony, and love, trueself-giving love.
So I don't think it's possibleto get closer to God and not get
closer to the ones around you,and not even that.
But you can't possibly do thatand not be more forgiving, more
grateful, more tolerant, becauseGod changes us, we, we don't
(18:07):
change him.
The closer we become to him,the more we reflect him yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So then it would make sense if, as you said, you've
had a degree of difference inconversations with robin lately.
It would make sense, as youcontinue to grow in your
intimacy with God, that yourmarriage would become more
intimate even.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, it absolutely has, and I spend more time with
her than probably I did early inour marriage, even in spite of
work.
I'd rather spend time with herthan some of the stuff that I
used to do, like I'm not tryingto get away as much, more
(19:05):
centered and being more, and notbeing centered like I'm doing
yoga, but being centered onchrist, being centered on um, on
what true joy is and on what itmeans to to be a disciple, kind
of everything feels a littlebit more stable.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Right, it's.
It's not so much that things inthe world are not going on
around you constantly, butthere's that peace.
That, like I.
That's how I interpret yousaying your centeredness where
it's, but it's okay, yeah well,and there's focus too, right
like when a figure skater spinsaround.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
They're always focusing on one spot, right, um,
so they don't lose theirbalance and don't get insanely
dizzy.
Um, and that's true for us.
If we're focused on that oneimportant spot of god, then, um
then that world and around us isnot as impactful what about as
(19:53):
a dad um?
I, I think that I've beenworking since I first had kids
to be a better dad, um, but itthis coincides with the kids
moving out, and so I don't knowthat it, um, I don't know that.
I see as much there.
(20:14):
I hope that I'm more patientand more loving.
Um, I've not had theconversation with them, and I
need to, but I haven't had theconversation with them about
what do you think about all this?
Like, what do you think aboutwhat I'm trying to do?
Like, do you have any thoughtson it?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I mean I got, like grant for father's day, got me
um a St Stephen medal, stStephen being the first martyr
yeah, it was.
You know, jillian got me a cardthat said she prayed a rosary
for me for father's day.
So I I think I must be changinga little bit in their mind.
(20:58):
But I'm not looking at it fromthat lens as much.
I guess is is part of theanswer that I'm not trying to
figure out.
Hey, how is this going to thatlens?
As much, I guess, is part ofthe answer that I'm not trying
to figure out.
Hey, how is this going tochange?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
me as a father.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Because I don't.
I want to focus on theprinciple and not the interest.
I want to focus on what's trulyimportant, which is getting
closer to God with the fulltrust and hope that doing so is
going to make me a better man,is going to make me a better
father, is going to make me abetter husband.
But you still got to focus.
(21:37):
You can't focus on those extrabenefits, mm-hmm.
I had a professor early on thatsaid look, don't go chasing
dollars.
Go do something that you loveand the dollars will come.
And what he was trying to saywas, as soon as you get focused
on the dollars, you're going toget distracted and you're going
to fail.
Focus on what's truly important.
(21:58):
The long pole in the tentraises the most canvas.
Right, focus on the long pole.
If you can get that long poleup, you're going to raise more
of the tent than focusing on thecanvas itself.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I heard something so extremely similar,
and I don't remember where Iheard it, but very recently and
it turned a little light bulb onin my head.
Right, something clickedGuarding the things in your life
that you're struggling with.
(22:29):
I'll just throw some out therebecause, again, I can't remember
the details surrounding whatwas said.
But let's say you're strugglingwith lust.
Instead of focusing on notstruggling with lust, instead
pursue Jesus, because if yourfocus is pursuing Jesus, he'll
(22:51):
take care of the rest.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And so that's the kind of thing like don't go
chasing the dollars, go focus onsomething else and the rest
will take care of itself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
And so, instead of focusing on I want to be a
better husband, I want to be abetter dad.
I want to be a better, whateverright employee.
A better husband, I want to bea better dad.
I want to be a better, whateverright Employee.
Focus on pursuing Jesus,walking with him and naturally,
through osmosis or whateverright Like, you'll start
(23:20):
absorbing what all these otherthings should look like and he
will change them like and hewill change them.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He will well and he'll.
He'll protect us from theaccuser who attacks us where
we're weakest, who attacksalways where his accusations can
make us turn back away from godto doubt.
I mean, that's what desolationreally is is that we're
listening to the voice of thedevil as he tells us these lies
about you're not worthy, youdon't really love God.
He doesn't really love you,like when we listen to that.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's where we fail, but when we grasp tightly to
Christ, he can't attack us, andso we are thereby strengthened
to be the men and women thatwere meant to be yeah, I was
having a conversation just theother day about confession, to
how people have such differentexperiences when it comes to
(24:18):
that reconciliation, which allof the different experiences in
my mind show how powerfulreconciliation is.
And so you have some people.
They come out of confession,they're like on top of the world
.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right, you have some people that come out and feel
nothing or they immediately go.
Well, he only gave me, like one, our Father, like that's not
enough, right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Right, which is a crazy misunderstanding of what's
going on there.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, Well, but what it goes to show is when we're
closest to Jesus, in that momentof intimacy with him, that
reconciliation where he says, no, I love you no matter what,
immediately after Satan attacksYou're not worthy of what you
just received.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You need to do something to earn what he just
told you, Right?
And it just kind of keepsplaying with your mind and so I
don't know, I just I find itinteresting.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Did Robin ever tell you her story about her first
confession?
No, so we were up at St Mark inDenton and Father George is a
really quiet, shy priest fromIndia and she had just finished
RCA.
She took her first confession.
She leapt up and hugged himreal tight after the confession
(25:44):
and he was like oh and she'slike.
Nobody told me you're notsupposed to hug the priest oh,
that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It's so funny.
I guess it's not against therules though no yeah, just go
hug a priest.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
No, it's not the during christmas, um, we took
the kids um when they wereyounger and they, like he, gave
them both cookies because, likehe, like he had parishioners
giving him all sorts ofChristmas treats and he's not
going to eat 800 cookies.
Yeah, so we're like we probablyneed to reinforce with the
children that they don't getcookies every time they go to
(26:18):
confession.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Right, that's not.
It's like getting a sucker.
They got God's grace, but youknow, yeah, have a cookie.
It's usually not in cookie form.
Holy cookies, that's funny.
Okay, so you're integratingthese things in your life.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I'll tell you, though , the biggest thing that I'm
integrating has been the divineoffice, and I mean, if I could
snap my fingers and make likeone change that I thought would
change the church and change theparishioners and change all of
us, it would be.
Everybody starts praying thedivine office every day morning
prayer and evening prayer, everysingle day yeah um, it's.
I mean, if you're not doing it,you need to.
(26:59):
It will change such a beautifulthing I.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
There was a period of time many years ago where I
tried, probably like right afterour first chirp or something
like that, and I either didn'tunderstand it or couldn't get it
, like you know, didn't quiteknow what to do, kind of thing
yeah but nowadays there's likeapps and stuff.
Well, there are apps, and sothat's that's so.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
The book is really confusing because they're trying
to take a little book, yeah youknow a thousand plus pages if
it's all printed out and get itinto like the one handheld book.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Um, but there is a book called, uh, the divine
office for dodos, that um, thatlittle angels carries, and um,
and I'll lend you a copy ifyou're ever interested if you've
still got your you knowChristian prayer book.
(27:57):
But the apps like you can getthe iBrevery, you can get the
Divine Office app.
Uccb has like the Divine Officeon their website every day.
Divineofficeorg has it like all.
I think both of those apps willactually pray it like podcast-y
style with you so that you canlisten to it and then pray along
on the app.
But I think it is beautiful tolearn to pray it from the book
because you start understandinghow it's structured.
But truly to me, the mostimportant part of that is
(28:20):
praying with the Psalms and thecanticles.
Right Canticle meaning song.
So you are praying along withall, but I think, like three of
the imprecatory Psalms, which Iguess they figured isn't really
totally appropriate, theimprecatory Psalms being the
ones where it was like God,please smite him, cause he
deserves it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Which is, you know, probably not quite as
entertaining as the end of thebook of Jonah.
Yeah, and there were manycattle as well.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But book of jonah, yeah, and there were many cattle
as well, yeah, but um, it is soenriching.
Like you first of all, youbegin to realize that's what the
psalms were like.
They're not just.
Here's some poems like theywere prayers.
All 150 of them were prayers,some of them short.
You know one that was two linesyeah um some of them incredibly
long yeah but they're allprayers and they're all models
(29:17):
for prayer for us and becausethey cover all seasons yeah joy
and sadness and loss and fear,like they will enrich your
prayer life, they will teach youhow to pray and, ultimately,
they are practiced for ourultimate destination, because
(29:38):
our ultimate destination is theliturgy of the afterlife.
It is to be in communion withGod and to worship Him right.
And to praise Him.
And how many of us are in thehabit of praising God every
morning and every evening?
How many of us are in the habitof making sure that, regardless
(30:02):
of what's going on in my life,I'm going to recognize that God
is beyond me, that he holds usin existence, that he continues
to do it out of love and that Ishould be grateful for
everything that I've had?
Yeah, element, and probably themost impactful, because it is,
(30:28):
um, it's changed my prayer lifeand it's changed a lot of my
outlook, and it has been asource of patience and humility
and comfort.
You know a couple of times thatI can go back to what's
important.
I can go back to what like whatmy center is, to what the most
(30:48):
important thing is, which is God.
But the other thing that itreally does, which is great, is
it keeps you in touch withliturgical seasons.
So today is the Solemnity of StPeter and Paul, right Unless I
was going to Mass for Saturdaymorning Mass.
I wouldn't have known that if Iwasn't praying in the office.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yep, yeah, yeah, was going to mass for saturday
morning mass.
I wouldn't have known that if Iwasn't praying the office.
Yep, yeah, yeah.
So one of the things that Istarted doing, I guess, a
handful of years ago, wheneverthe bible in a year first came
out, I did that, so I integratedthat into my morning prayer
time.
Yep, when that was done, I waslike, well, heck, now, what do I
do right?
So then start over.
(31:28):
Well, so I thought about it andand um the.
What I did instead is I startedreading the daily, um daily mass
readings the readings from themissile yeah, yeah and what's
interesting too, thinking oflike my growth in it is, at
first I I would just kind ofskip through the psalm and I
(31:50):
would just do the Old Testamentgospel, and I never really
thought about why, other than inmy mind it must have somehow
been trivialized right.
And then that turned into ahabit and there was something
about probably a year ago or sowhere I just kind of had this
(32:18):
epiphany that I was skipping outon something that I shouldn't
be.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And so then, I started reading the psal every
morning, the Psalm that goeswith the Mass in the daily
reading.
And they're beautiful, and ofcourse, I'd heard them all
because I did Bible in a Yearand all that stuff.
But there is something I thinkthat is, sometimes, depending on
the Mass readings, the OldTestament readings might be a
(32:46):
little bit hard or difficult tofind some kind of contemplative
inspiration in.
You're like, okay, now they'reunder siege or something like
that.
You're like, what is that?
Am I under siege in my life,Lord, Right, but the Psalms
almost always there is somethingthat you can stop and think
(33:07):
about and reflect on when youread the Psalms.
That's right, and so I foundthat to be extremely helpful.
Yeah, Maybe sometimes even moreso than the Gospels, but
probably because I'm just sofamiliar with the Gospels
because you hear them all thetime.
Right, oh, he healed the leper.
Okay, I've heard it a thousandtimes, but I've never really
(33:29):
paid attention to the Psalms theway I am now, and so now every
time I read the full office.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
So office of readings morning prayer evening prayer,
midday prayer and night prayer,then you will go through the
(33:57):
full Bible over the course ofthat.
And so Sacrosanctum Conciliumcalls the divine office truly
the voice of the bride addressedto her bridegroom.
It is the very prayer whichChrist himself, together with
his body, addresses to theFather.
It is the prayer of the church,and it is meant to pray
(34:23):
constantly.
Right, the exhortation of StPaul to pray constantly.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
is that prayer?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And again, it's for our benefit.
We are benefiting the world whenwe pray together as a church.
We're sanctifying the world whenwe pray together as a church,
but what that means is thatwe're sanctifying ourselves,
that we are being sanctified bythe prayer of thousands, tens of
thousands, millions of otherpeople who are praying along
(34:54):
with us, and we're beinguplifted and we're being filled
with the Holy spirit and we'rebeing changed into our original
form of what we were meant to be.
So the um, the beauty of thedivine office and the beauty of
praying, along with the Psalmsand with the prayers of the
(35:16):
cycle of the liturgy, is let memake another quote the
excellence of Christian prayerlies in this that it shares, in
the very love of the onlybegotten son for the father and
in that prayer which the son putinto words in his earthly life
and which still continuesunceasingly in the name of the
whole human race and for itssalvation, throughout the
(35:39):
universal church and all itsmembers.
Christ's sacrifice, his priestlyprayer, his teachings, all of
that continues in the Mass, Allof it continues in the Divine
Office, All of it continues inthe liturgy in which we
participate, and liturgy is whatwe were made for.
(36:02):
We were made for worship.
There's a book and maybe we canget Father Stephen to
participate in an episode aboutthis, but Pope Benedict, when he
was just the Cardinal, wrotethis book called the called um
the spirit of the liturgy umwhich was based on a uh, a
Spanish uh, I think authors umearlier version of that, but um,
(36:24):
he talks about the fact thatthe purpose of the, of the
purpose, I mean religion.
Father Mike says all the timereligion, the center of religion
is worship, and the center ofworship is sacrifice.
Yep, so that sacrifice is theliturgy.
When we are participating inthe Mass, we're not just
participating in an observation.
(36:45):
Heaven touches the earth andwe're a part of that heavenly
choir of angels and saints.
We're part of.
You know what the shepherds sawthe night of the nativity?
We're a part of that heavenlychoir of angels and saints.
We're part of.
You know what the shepherds sawthe night of the nativity.
We're part of all that.
Yeah and um, there's a, there'slike, there's so much, I think,
behind the idea of liturgy andbehind what it means to worship,
(37:06):
and behind, even, like, thecosmos is built in such a way
that it is the type of templethat proceeds.
You know that, that thatproceeds all of our earthly
temples and is still just areflection of the heavenly
temple.
Um, but our liturgy is aparticipation in that.
So, like when we're praying,whether we're just praying for
(37:27):
ourselves and our family orwe're praying along at mass um
or we're praying the divineoffice we're we're making that
spiritual sacrifice, we'regiving of ourselves to god and
hopefully we are listening tohim and receiving the gifts he's
given us and giving those giftsback to him yeah, there.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It makes me think of a couple things.
One, how, how so many of usonly experience where heaven and
earth touches once a week?
How many of us experience whereheaven and earth touches at
(38:07):
Easter and Christmas only?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Sometimes at Easter and Christmas.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Sometimes at Easter andChristmas.
You know what I mean, becauseyou're just missing out.
You know what I mean.
There's just, oh, it almosthurts your heart because it's
like whenever you see somebodywho abuses himself, right, or
(38:37):
somebody who's hurting, orsomebody who doesn't realize how
much they're loved, kind ofthing, somebody who's hurting,
and your heart breaks for thembecause you know they're made
for so much more than what theirexperience is Right.
It also makes me think I washaving this conversation, right.
It also makes me think I washaving this conversation.
I think it was this week thisyoung lady that I work with and
(39:00):
she's native Spanish speaker andwas raised Catholic.
I was like yeah you want to cometo Mass, we can go to the
Spanish Mass and she goes.
Well, she knows I don't speakSpanish, she goes.
You're not going to understandanything.
That's going on, not true?
And I was well, yeah, I guess,to be more precise, you're not
going to understand.
(39:20):
You won't understand what thepriest is saying, particularly,
I think, as she was implyingduring the homily, yeah, and or,
I guess, the readings, whenthey're reading the scripture.
And I was like, well, first ofall, I can read along in English
, that's fine.
And second of all, if the onlything I miss out on is the
(39:47):
homily, that's okay, becauseit's about more than that.
And that was like a mind-blownkind of thought for her, like
what do you mean?
It's about more than what theguy is saying.
And I guess she's not wellcatechized.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
It's like Protestant point of view.
Yeah, like the highlight is thepreaching.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Not the liturgy of the word.
Yeah, and there is no liturgyof Eucharist anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, and so it was again this misunderstanding.
And, like I was saying, thefirst part is how many people
are missing out on the fullnessof what it means to be a
disciple of Jesus?
Yeah, that, through prayer andthrough working in your
(40:33):
community.
And you're not going to church,you're not going to Mass to be
entertained or to hear goodmusic or to even necessarily
understand what's being said.
You're going to pray, you areoffering sacrifice, which is why
you can go to the VietnameseCatholic Church down the street,
(40:54):
and it's fine, you can go tothe Saro Malabar Catholic Church
.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Not even Western right, I mean Latin right, it's
Byzantine, but it is valid massand you receive the body and
blood of Christ while you'rethere.
Yeah, it's also disappointingbecause we have so many people
who believe that faith andknowledge are inconsistent, that
(41:27):
faith and science areinconsistent with each other,
that, um, you know they believethe lies of the accuser, like
this is just a fairy tale.
It's not really true and youknow, other than patience and
living the gospel, I don't knowthat there's a better way to get
(41:47):
through to anybody who'sconvinced themselves of that,
until they're ready, untilthey've come to a point in their
lives where they need to, theyrealize they need to change,
they realize that what they'redoing and how they're living
isn't working.
I mean it is astonishing howoften we have to hit rock bottom
before you can make a change.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, father, and Steven and I have talked
about that before is why does itseem like we have to?
We have to be on the path ofdestruction.
We have to integrate ourdiscipleship into our lives so
that we're— because I can'tconvert people, jesus converts
(42:45):
people right, I can't savepeople, jesus saves people.
If I integrate my discipleshipfully into my life, then,
through example, people will bedrawn to Christ.
And they're not drawn to me,they're drawn to Christ because
I'm a shadow of the glory of God.
(43:06):
Right At best, right, right.
So another statement that wassaid was well, I can kind of be
religious without having to goto church.
And I just started smiling andI was like I don't think you
understand is what I wanted tosay.
(43:28):
It's like I'm married and Ilove, love my wife and I love
her with all my heart.
I think about her all the time,but I never go see her.
When I have the opportunity togo see her, by choice, not by
necessity, like my job puts meon the other side of the world
and I can't go see her.
But I literally have the chanceto see her every single day,
(43:49):
but I choose not to.
It's not much of a relationshipRight, even though I claim to
love her so much, and so thatdisconnect.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
It's.
I mean it is.
It's a logical inconsistencythat's earth shatteringly huge.
If you start to talk throughthose first principles, you know
the, the logical necessity thatFather Stephen's fond of
talking about.
But it's.
You can't be in relationshipwith somebody If you have no
(44:20):
intimacy, it's just, it'simpossible.
And if Christ truly died androse, then that is the single
most important fact of our lives, more important than anything
else that can or ever will be.
So you can't tell me thatyou're Christian if you don't
act like that's the single mostimportant fact of your life.
(44:43):
Yeah, I get it Like we're allbroken and so we all fail and we
all sin, but I'm stillspiritual.
Yeah, kind of thing Like well,I'm still spiritual.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, kind of thing.
Like well, what does?
Speaker 2 (44:57):
that mean.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Like what is your, what is your center, what is
your North star?
What do you?
What do you put your faith in?
What do you put your hope in?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, it's also is is God a vending machine for you
or is God your father?
You know so, as you're learningall these things and you're
integrating these things in yourlife, what has been the part of
your life where youconsistently go oh, I suck, you
(45:26):
know, like this is this thingthat I have to keep coming back
to, because I know God ishealing me in this.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And I'm aware of it, but man, I'm just I'm not very
good at this thing.
Do you have something like that?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I think it's.
I mean, I think it's a bigbundle of things, but I think so
much of it kind of comes downto the need to control, and you
and I talked about that evenwhen we first met, about the
need to control and the need tobe in control and the fact that
none of us are in control.
But like I mean, if there's onething that's going to make me
(46:09):
have a bad day, it's somethinggoing wrong.
That's going to make me have abad day.
It's something going wrongwhich is like when I say it is
the silliest thing, I couldpossibly say right, like of
course things are going to gowrong, it is baked into the pie.
That's kind of like owning abeater of a truck and then being
surprised when you have to takeit into the shop yeah, what do
you mean?
Speaker 1 (46:27):
it broke well.
What do you expect, right?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
like, what did I expect?
Um, but like, it'll get me in abad mood.
It can get me angry you get mesnapping at people.
It can make me impatient, itcan make me ungrateful, um, it
can make me want to turn to youknow, those things that I think
are going to make me feel better, which I, you know, I
intellectually recognize, don'tlike.
All of those things.
It ultimately is that desire andthat need to be in control, and
(46:55):
I think that, being a part ofthe formation process, I'm going
to be told like, this is whatyou're going to do, this is
where you're going to do it,like I won't be in control, and
I think that I just, you know, Igot to keep getting beat over
the head with the lesson of youknow, this is what it means to
(47:16):
be patient, this is what itmeans to be humble, this is what
it means to, you know, acceptthe will of God in your life.
I struggle with that, probablymore than anything else, and it
probably stems from, you know,the loss of my father when I was
15, and you know, and all thestuff again that we've talked
about before.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
But ultimately my father when I was 15, and you
know, and all the stuff againthat we've talked about before,
yeah, but ultimately, um, I, Ican't do anything but offer that
up to God.
I can't do anything.
But you say all that I am goodand bad is is for you do
something with it, do what youwill with it.
But I do think it helpstremendously to have other men
and women around you who loveyou as a brother and sister, who
(48:03):
are praying for you and whohave their own challenges and
their own sins, to realize, likeI don't have to be that person
and I don't have to accept thatI can continue to turn to Christ
and I can continue to turn backand ask for that help and pray
(48:24):
for that help and and offer thatup.
And I don't know that I'm evergoing to be fully cleansed of
that until the second coming.
Like I don't know I'll ever becompletely free of that.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Because Satan's going to keep attacking me at my weak
points, right, he's going tokeep attacking me there.
But I hope and I pray and Ifeel like I'm making some
progress and ultimately, I mean,it was kind of a big revelation
to realize, dude, you're not incontrol like even the least
little bit.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, isn't it weird, too, the way that we will.
Well, some people struggle.
I guess I'm fine being toldwhat to do, because I maintain
this lie in my head that, okay,you've told me to go do this
thing, but I'm going to be.
I'm.
(49:17):
I'm going to be in control ofhow I now go do this thing, and
so it's.
It's weird.
It's like, oh yeah, you know,no, I'm.
I'm fine being asked to dothings because I'm still in
control More ha ha, it's soweird.
It's like everybody whostruggles with control issues
should be put in a room andsomebody should dump out a box
(49:40):
of 100 gerbils or something likethat, and they should be told
to wrangle them back up, putthem back in the box.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
We all have this secret narrator in our head
that's telling us a story aboutwhat just happened to us.
Yeah, and it's almost alwaysfilled with, you know, lies or
distortions.
Like you know, I came in andthe first thing that happened
during my day, when I was goingto go try to get other things
done, is I had an emergency cropup, you know, and my boss's
boss is asking for something,and now I've got to go
reschedule and I've got to go,you know, and it's going to be
(50:10):
stressful and you know, and likethat is a story.
And then there's this otherstory that is the identical set
of circumstances and theidentical set of facts, but that
story is you're being given yetanother opportunity to show
your value to the organizationand to be somebody who they can
(50:30):
put their trust in and to helpin a way that nobody else can
help.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, they needed someone and it was you.
You're the person they thoughtof, right.
You're the person they trustedto solve this emergency thing
that came up.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
And it's like you know, that person's attacking me
.
Okay, I can tell myself thatstory, that that person is a
terrible person and they'reattacking me and they don't love
me and they want me to fail andall the other things that I
might want to tell myself, so Ican feel like a martyr.
Or I can get off that particularcross and say that person's
probably having a bad day andthat person's probably under
(51:02):
pressures that I have no ideaabout, and that person is
struggling and they're fearfulor they're hurting, and so
they're coming to me in a waythat isn't the way I want and,
by the way, they know nothingabout me, so they don't know
what I want, they don't know howto interact with me effectively
.
I can tell myself thatdifferent story and um, and
let's like.
This is one of the good thingsI think about the idea of um,
(51:24):
the, the kind of the um, theignation practice of I can't
remember the word um at the endof the day when you reflect on
your day.
Oh, I know what you're talkingabout the Ignatian practice of.
I can't remember the word um atthe end of the day when you
reflect on your day.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Oh, I know what you're talking about.
What is that called?
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Absolutely.
Think of it later.
Yeah, Um, but when you thinkabout how did my day go and, um,
and and where was I examined ofconscience?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
There you go, yeah, yeah Um.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
There you go, yeah, yeah.
So the daily examine, like ifyou're thinking about those
things.
You have a chance to retell thestory.
You have a chance to examinethat story in the light of
Christ.
You have a chance to askyourself and I shared this with
Grant, I think, so many yearsago, the first time I saw it on
the internet Did you really havea bad day, or did you just have
a bad five minutes that youmilked all day?
(52:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah bad fiveminutes that you milked all day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I thinkit is like it's.
One of the greatest blessingsin our lives is that most of us
get 80 years for our you know,stupid, recalcitrant, stubborn
selves to learn the lessons thatgod's put us on here on the
earth, to learn which is thishow you love, this is what you
(52:33):
were made for, and I think thatthose practices help us.
I think that divine officehelps us to grow closer to God
and to learn to truly love himand glorify him in our lives.
I think that the daily exam Imean people who reject the
Catholic Church are rejecting avast treasure trove of gifts
(53:00):
that we were given because Godwants to draw us closer to him,
and it's a shame because they'refree, like there's more gifts
than you could possibly everconsume and they're all just for
the asking Come, have food anddrink.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, eat and drink without cost right.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, yeah.
It's so interesting and I keepreflecting on how, as you
continue to grow in intimacywith Christ through this
diaconate formation, how that'sgoing to affect how you do
everything right, how it's goingto transform your life.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
It is and it's certainly in ways I won't know
Like 50% chance that I'll beassigned to a parish other than
the one that I currently attend,just based on what's been
happening recently, like that's,that's okay.
Um, presumably, if I get there,the Bishop is going to have a
conversation with me.
We're going to talk about whatare some of the ways that I
could serve and, regardless ofwhat I think, I will have sworn
(54:10):
a vow of obedience and he'lltell me how I can serve and
maybe I'll be granted yetanother opportunity to practice
humility and patience.
Yeah, Cause I'm never going tobe able to get too many.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
No, it always makes me.
Whenever somebody says evenjust the word patience, I always
think of skip, where he's.
Like God, give me patienceright now.
It just always makes me laugh.
That's funny.
So what's?
Speaker 2 (54:38):
next.
So what's next is I'm waitingto hear back on the application
for aspirancy.
I'm prayerfully hopeful thatFather Edwin didn't say, no,
this guy's a putz.
I think all the stuff that wewent through like it all went
fine, so um.
(54:58):
So in september we'll startback up.
We're going to be in there, um,for a full weekend once a month
um.
So saturday morning to sundayevening, including overnight, in
the casas at saint rafael,it'll be more classwork, it'll
probably be some other things,but they haven't really told us
(55:18):
what.
I assume we'll have adoration,we'll have some fellowship and I
know we'll do masses togetherand those kinds of things, as
well as the cohorts.
And after that second year,unless I discern out, like the
third year, and after thatsecond year, um, unless I
discern out, like the third year, we start with um.
I think it's the the wives nolonger must attend, but um, I
(55:39):
start doing once a month, friday, uh evening, and all day
Saturday at university of Dallasfor more Um.
We go on, uh the St Raphael forday long um sessions that are
probably not academic, yeah.
To St Raphael for day longsessions that are probably not
academic, yeah.
And then I think third year iswhen we would start with RCAA at
another parish so that we canget practice.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Because it's six years of formation.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
It's six years of formation in the diocese.
Yeah, I love that it is.
It's really fascinating becauseI have a colleague who was a
deacon in his church of Christand I mean, like I don't even
know if he would have.
Like it's like the council ofelders said it was okay, you
know, and they, you know, likethey vote every year, and so I
(56:24):
think it's pretty.
It's probably pretty alien toto some of our separated
brethren the idea that you needto discern for six years because
you are making a permanentcommitment to the church and to
her people to serve in the roleof christ yeah, it's, and it's
also that the thought the thedifference between I want to do
this thing or I'm being calledto do this thing.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Am I truly being?
Speaker 2 (56:46):
called yeah, yeah that's.
I mean, that's an opportunityfor us every day, yeah, what am
I being called to do?
What am I being called to do?
What am I being called to donext?
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, and in this moment, yeah, right, well, cool,
well, man, we talk, we talk abunch, so we do.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Let's uh, let's wrap this up, and then you know what.
Let's just do like a bonuswe're talking about.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Oh, you know what we're going to talk about some
of the speculative theology.
Oh yeah, I've already got onetopic for you Aliens yes.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yes, all right, guys, we'll see you next time for
aliens.
God bless.
Welcome to the my Friend the Friar podcast and
thanks for listening.
If you like my Friend the Friarand want to support us, please
consider subscribing orfollowing us if you haven't
already done so, and if youfound us on YouTube then, don't
forget to click the notificationbell when you subscribe, so
you'll be notified of newepisodes when they release.
Thanks again and God bless.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
They're making honey mustard ones now.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Potato chips.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I can get behind that .
They're good.
Oh, how's your country accent?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How's my country accent?
Why do you want me to say it?
The angel of the Lord.
The angel of the Lord, theangel of the lord, angel of the
lord, the angel of the lord.
But why has it got to be?
Why it's got to be country?
Why couldn't it be I?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
don't know what.
It's because it's betty, betty,she, she gets.
No, it's because it is becauseit's betty, it's because betty
is secretly from the countryy'all.
And so, as she gets moreexcited, that country twang
starts slipping out, and so, asshe's like, who is the angel of
(01:15):
the Lord?
Who?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
is angel of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
And it was just.
I don't know, she's silly.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My wife used to fixate on Cardinal Dolan and the
way he would say the Lord,because it was always in like
that New York Irish accent.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh, what was that?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I got to hear it.
I'm not sure I can do it.
I'm not going to try it whileyou're recording anyways.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, that's funny, I'll have to.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
nolan cardinal, dolan dolan yeah, new york cardinal
okay, I'll have to go look himup he's like really active and
serious exam catholic radio andthat kind of stuff, so like when
we were listening to a lot ofthat.
He'd show up on shows um, butlike his also, like they would
um do the mass, I thinksometimes they'd play it on um
ewtn maybe but it was like itwas from the.
(02:07):
It was, it was from thecathedral in new york, and so
when he would say the mass, itis the lard, the name of the
lard, lard.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, then I that, though the way they say the r,
that that would make sense yeah,who's the angel of the lard?
Yeah, because that's prettygood.
That's pretty good.
Um, that'd be such a weirdepisode if everyone tried to
speak in an accent.
It would just evolve intotomfoolery.
Yeah, the, the whole, the, thesouthern accent, that lord you
(02:39):
know like just so pervasive inmy mind, or jesus, you know you
gotta right, I prefer irish.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, jesus, jesus, mary joseph and all of his
carpenter friends oh, it's sofunny.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Um well, because I forgot it last time, welcome to
the podcast and thanks forjoining me and my friend, mark,
not the, not the fr, not thefriar, not the friar.
Mark, the the layman, the.
Maybe someday, non-layman.
Well, yeah, it's ordained.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is ordained Non-layman.
It's the only Like a deacon isthe only person who could
possibly have received all sevensacraments.
Well, I guess if you werewidowed and you became a priest,
but for most people it's eithermarriage or holy orders.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
All right, I'm going to throw a question at you.
What's the difference betweenconsecration and ordination?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, consecration, so things that are consecrated
are dedicated to God.
Right, they're made holy andthey're made special.
Even I mean even blessing, likeholy water has been set aside
for a purpose, for God's purpose.
Ordination is another seal ofthe Holy Spirit.
It's another indelible mark onyour soul.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm going to start calling you indelible mark now.
Indelible mark was my superheroname, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It wasn't a very good superhero.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You couldn't get him to go away though no, you know
what.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's probably pretty appropriate.
So, yeah, when you'reconsecrated, you're not ordained
, you're not sealed with theHoly Spirit as such, and really
(04:40):
the idea behind the ordinationis we need that additional, that
extra helping of the HolySpirit to support us in our
ministry, whether it's as apriest or as a deacon, or even
if you're ordained a bishop.
You're being called to be evenmore like Christ.
You're being called to do evenmore on behalf of his people.
You're being called to listento God more, to serve more, to
put yourself aside more.
We can't possibly do thatwithout the help of the Holy
(05:00):
Spirit.
We can't possibly be who we'remeant to be.
We can't truly be who we'remeant to be.
We can't truly be contrite forour sins, like there's nothing
that we can do without the HolySpirit.
Right, st Paul?
Like in weakness, I'm madestrong.
The power of Christ, I mean.
That is the truth of our lives,and so it is.
It's a blessing, but it's ablessing in service of service,
(05:26):
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, there's the reason I was asking, not
necessarily because I didn'tknow, but because I seem to have
been hearing more and more inthe past couple of years of
consecrated virgins, and upuntil a couple of years ago I
hadn't heard of any my wholelife.
(05:47):
And so my daughter, um, had afriend come with us to mass last
weekend or the other weekendand, uh, rev kev had said
something about his friend yeah,he had consecrated I gotta go
because I gotta go do this thing, kind of thing wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
you were at the noon mass.
Was it noon?
Was that noon or was thatSaturday mass?
I feel like it was Saturday.
Oh, you're right, that wasSaturday night mass.
Yeah, I was thinking it wasnoon, because I serve at the
noon mass this week.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Anyway, that was a curiosity because her friend who
came is not Catholic and hadjust never been to a mass before
, and so everyone's like whatthe heck is this?
And so trying to explain likeit's a really cool thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
One, and it's it might.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I wonder what the difference is between that kind
of consecration and the, thevows.
I guess that they take as like,a cloistered nun or something
like that, cause I know she'sstill just goes and lives out in
the world, she's, um, you know,she's going to get a job, go to
(07:02):
work and all that kind of stuff, um, but I wonder, in the the,
the rites, the rituals of it, Iwonder how different it is.
Oh, like what?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
the, the missile, how the missile is different.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, and how, like the whole process and kind, of
kind of thing, Cause I've seen,um, where they prostrate
themselves like a priest doesduring their ordination and
that's, and that's pretty neat.
So anyway, I don't know justthere's all that little bit of I
don't even know how to say itJust how all of that has
(07:34):
developed over time.
Something about that is reallyinteresting to me, because
everything means something, allof it is a sign of something.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It does, and it's all in reaction to God as well, in
a certain different way.
And it makes a lot of sense,once you understand it, that
some people are called to serveGod through cloistered adoration
and prayer and even penance,that they're basically working
(08:06):
on behalf of the world.
You're never going to see them,hopefully.
You know about them, butthey're not there, like they're
as humble as humble can be,because they're trying to pray
and do penitential acts onbehalf of the world, whereas
other people have a charismwhere they're called to serve in
(08:27):
education, right Like theLegionaries of Christ, right
that order, and then the RegnumChristi women.
They serve at the HighlandSchool and they teach and like
they live in the world.
My aunt was who is jillian'sgodmother?
(08:48):
She, um, she was a nun with theuh, incarnate word in corpus
christi.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Pull the mic a little bit.
I can, yes, just a little bitaggressively, yeah aggressive oh
there you go.
Oh, your aunt, your aunt.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So, yeah, so Aunt Mary, sister Rosemary, was at
Incarnate Word in Corpus Christiand we went probably once every
month or two and had lunch withher and had mass with her and
got to meet the sisters, and Iwish Catholics today, kids
(09:25):
growing up, saw more of that andand I kind of like it's
exciting to to hear more aboutit coming out and maybe seeing
you know more of that inpeople's lives so that they can
see like what is, what is itlike to truly abandon your life
to God, to truly give up yourlife to God and then understand
I'm not being asked to do that.
I'm not being asked to do that,I'm just being asked to do a
(09:47):
little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, and I've, I've, I heard it once before
too.
The thing that is it's, it'skind of missing from our church
is, once upon a time, everywherethere were sisters and nuns and
stuff.
So you'd see father and you'dsee mother, right, you'd get the
(10:10):
fullness of all the roleswithin the church.
And there's so few.
But the church I grew up goingto in Flower Bluff, there was a
little convent behind them.
They were all Filipino, that'sthe only thing I can remember.
They're probably Dominican, butI was just.
(10:31):
There was just nuns all overthe place, right, and so you,
under you, you were at leastexposed.
If you didn't understandbecause most kids don't
understand anything that they'reexposed to but you're exposed
to the different roles of thechurch and you have those
beautiful experiences of um,like motherhood, and that
femininity and like what it isuh, to, to, to behave in such a
(10:52):
way.
Um, I thought all that was.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
it was really helpful and it's good and and I wish
and maybe you're right, maybehopefully there's more of that
starting to to come back, but Ithink, think especially with
more of the charismatic Catholicmovement, you see a little bit
more of that, but I mean, it'snot for everyone right.
(11:16):
Like you go through adiscernment process for the
consecrated life, just as youwould for the priesthood or the
diaconate.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And ultimately I mean that's a very Catholic thing.
You know, we expect marriage,that you're discerning before
you make that decision.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, yeah.
When I think in in kind of yourpoint earlier, where I'm not
even being asked to do this,that's helpful to go.
Okay, I know I'm not being, youknow, called to that, or a lot
of times people are just against, like they fight against
perhaps, what they're beingcalled to, but that seed is
(11:54):
planted, but either way, itshows them that there is
something more and just beingexposed to it, especially when
you have people who wear theirhabits, because that recognition
too there's this person setaside.
But then if you are reflectiveabout it, you understand, like
(12:18):
you're baptized, you are setapart as well.
I don't wear a habit, right,but what does it mean to be set
apart in this world?
And then you've got all theseexamples and slowly you can
start integrating these thoughtsand stuff into your lifestyle
yes and it's I mean I thinkthere's.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We should celebrate the differences right.
There are many gifts, but onespirit there are many parts, but
one body.
We tend towards envy or prideor other things that make me
think, well, I'm not doing that,um, but that's not your charism
, that's not what you're calledto do yeah you're called to
serve the world and to serve god, but like there's a great
(12:57):
diversity in the ways that wecan and should serve and um, as
long as we're moving the balldown the field as long as we're
constantly progressing right?
Like are you continuing to takesteps towards God?
Are you taking steps away fromGod?
Like I said, I talked about StIgnatius like are you in
consolation?
Are you moving towards God?
Are you in desolation?
(13:17):
Are you moving away from God?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah.
So today we're going to try andfocus on the integration of
what you've been learning.
So today we're going to try andfocus on the integration of
what you've been learning.
So first, your first vocationis marriage, right?
So how has your diaconateformation so far affected your
vocation of marriage?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I think positively, no-transcript, but I mean having
(14:13):
a conversation about why Imight want to do this and what
it would mean in her life andmaking sure she understood that
I want her to be truthful andhonest about how she feels about
what we're doing, becauseyou're not, I mean you, you.
(14:34):
There are circumstances wherethe deacon's wife is not
prominent, but I bet a dollaryou know at least one or two of
our deacon's wives, right, um,and like that's a burden, like
that's a burden that I want totake on and I can't take that on
if she doesn't want to take onthe burden that necessarily
comes with it of you know,having to be the deacon's wife
(14:58):
and, and she's always so, robinis extremely empathetic.
She, like, she inspiresconfidence, and so she's always
got people coming up to her andtelling her stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Um, it's really kind of weird.
I don't know if you've seen it.
Yeah, it's like people just goto robin and start telling him
every, or telling her everything.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She's an amazing listener and she's so empathetic
and she cares um and she's likeit has a gift for saying the
right thing.
So of course they do um becauseshe makes them feel better and
she's like it has a gift forsaying the right thing.
So of course they do Um causeshe makes them feel better.
She's like a reverse energyvampire, like she is, like she's
not.
She's giving energy all thetime and um, and it's like
(15:36):
that's something that we've gotto talk through.
So we've we have talked a lotmore um about it.
Now I mean it.
It doesn't help that the kidsare both moved out.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Lot more um about it now, I mean it.
It doesn't help that the kidsare both moved out.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It doesn't hurt.
The kids are both moved out,right, so like we've got more
time together, right, and Ithink that's good.
Um, I think that because thiskind of a process, this kind of
focus on God, is going to changeme I think unnecessarily it
changes the way that I relatewith her.
I hope that she finds me morepatient and more loving and more
grateful, but I mean, they'relike I'm, I'm I'm not sure that
(16:17):
I could point to something thatwas like a binary change at any
point that I flipped from oneside to another and I'm just
going to be patient.
That God will work in his timein me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Would you say that, as we and maybe you've
experienced this and this iswhat you're describing as we
grow in our intimacy with God,that we naturally grow in our
intimacy with others?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think it's unavoidable, because God is
communion.
He's love, he's mercy, he's somany things, but he is communion
, three in one, the triune God.
And how can you possibly getcloser to God without being more
(17:04):
communicative of yourself,without wanting to live in
intimacy and union with thosearound you?
Yeah, right, and you talked ona previous episode recently
about the Pope, john Paul II.
I never know where you put thesaint.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's Pope, st John Paul II.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And the theology of the body, and I mean that is
such a fascinating revelationthat God made us man and woman
because he was trying to lead usdown the rosy path.
You know our stupid, limited,broken minds towards what is
true joy it's living incommunion with others, in peace
(17:46):
and harmony, and love, trueself-giving love.
So I don't think it's possibleto get closer to God and not get
closer to the ones around you,and not even that.
But you can't possibly do thatand not be more forgiving, more
grateful, more tolerant, becauseGod changes us, we, we don't
(18:07):
change him.
The closer we become to him,the more we reflect him yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So then it would make sense if, as you said, you've
had a degree of difference inconversations with robin lately.
It would make sense, as youcontinue to grow in your
intimacy with God, that yourmarriage would become more
intimate even.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, it absolutely has, and I spend more time with
her than probably I did early inour marriage, even in spite of
work.
I'd rather spend time with herthan some of the stuff that I
used to do, like I'm not tryingto get away as much, more
(19:05):
centered and being more, and notbeing centered like I'm doing
yoga, but being centered onchrist, being centered on um, on
what true joy is and on what itmeans to to be a disciple, kind
of everything feels a littlebit more stable.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Right, it's.
It's not so much that things inthe world are not going on
around you constantly, butthere's that peace.
That, like I.
That's how I interpret yousaying your centeredness where
it's, but it's okay, yeah well,and there's focus too, right
like when a figure skater spinsaround.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
They're always focusing on one spot, right, um,
so they don't lose theirbalance and don't get insanely
dizzy.
Um, and that's true for us.
If we're focused on that oneimportant spot of god, then, um
then that world and around us isnot as impactful what about as
(19:53):
a dad um?
I, I think that I've beenworking since I first had kids
to be a better dad, um, but itthis coincides with the kids
moving out, and so I don't knowthat it, um, I don't know that.
I see as much there.
(20:14):
I hope that I'm more patientand more loving.
Um, I've not had theconversation with them, and I
need to, but I haven't had theconversation with them about
what do you think about all this?
Like, what do you think aboutwhat I'm trying to do?
Like, do you have any thoughtson it?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I mean I got, like grant for father's day, got me
um a St Stephen medal, stStephen being the first martyr
yeah, it was.
You know, jillian got me a cardthat said she prayed a rosary
for me for father's day.
So I I think I must be changinga little bit in their mind.
(20:58):
But I'm not looking at it fromthat lens as much.
I guess is is part of theanswer that I'm not trying to
figure out.
Hey, how is this going to thatlens?
As much, I guess, is part ofthe answer that I'm not trying
to figure out.
Hey, how is this going tochange?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
me as a father.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Because I don't.
I want to focus on theprinciple and not the interest.
I want to focus on what's trulyimportant, which is getting
closer to God with the fulltrust and hope that doing so is
going to make me a better man,is going to make me a better
father, is going to make me abetter husband.
But you still got to focus.
(21:37):
You can't focus on those extrabenefits, mm-hmm.
I had a professor early on thatsaid look, don't go chasing
dollars.
Go do something that you loveand the dollars will come.
And what he was trying to saywas, as soon as you get focused
on the dollars, you're going toget distracted and you're going
to fail.
Focus on what's truly important.
(21:58):
The long pole in the tentraises the most canvas.
Right, focus on the long pole.
If you can get that long poleup, you're going to raise more
of the tent than focusing on thecanvas itself.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I heard something so extremely similar,
and I don't remember where Iheard it, but very recently and
it turned a little light bulb onin my head.
Right, something clickedGuarding the things in your life
that you're struggling with.
(22:29):
I'll just throw some out therebecause, again, I can't remember
the details surrounding whatwas said.
But let's say you're strugglingwith lust.
Instead of focusing on notstruggling with lust, instead
pursue Jesus, because if yourfocus is pursuing Jesus, he'll
(22:51):
take care of the rest.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And so that's the kind of thing like don't go
chasing the dollars, go focus onsomething else and the rest
will take care of itself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
And so, instead of focusing on I want to be a
better husband, I want to be abetter dad.
I want to be a better, whateverright employee.
A better husband, I want to bea better dad.
I want to be a better, whateverright Employee.
Focus on pursuing Jesus,walking with him and naturally,
through osmosis or whateverright Like, you'll start
(23:20):
absorbing what all these otherthings should look like and he
will change them like and hewill change them.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He will well and he'll.
He'll protect us from theaccuser who attacks us where
we're weakest, who attacksalways where his accusations can
make us turn back away from godto doubt.
I mean, that's what desolationreally is is that we're
listening to the voice of thedevil as he tells us these lies
about you're not worthy, youdon't really love God.
He doesn't really love you,like when we listen to that.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's where we fail, but when we grasp tightly to
Christ, he can't attack us, andso we are thereby strengthened
to be the men and women thatwere meant to be yeah, I was
having a conversation just theother day about confession, to
how people have such differentexperiences when it comes to
(24:18):
that reconciliation, which allof the different experiences in
my mind show how powerfulreconciliation is.
And so you have some people.
They come out of confession,they're like on top of the world
.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right, you have some people that come out and feel
nothing or they immediately go.
Well, he only gave me, like one, our Father, like that's not
enough, right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Right, which is a crazy misunderstanding of what's
going on there.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, Well, but what it goes to show is when we're
closest to Jesus, in that momentof intimacy with him, that
reconciliation where he says, no, I love you no matter what,
immediately after Satan attacksYou're not worthy of what you
just received.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You need to do something to earn what he just
told you, Right?
And it just kind of keepsplaying with your mind and so I
don't know, I just I find itinteresting.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Did Robin ever tell you her story about her first
confession?
No, so we were up at St Mark inDenton and Father George is a
really quiet, shy priest fromIndia and she had just finished
RCA.
She took her first confession.
She leapt up and hugged himreal tight after the confession
(25:44):
and he was like oh and she'slike.
Nobody told me you're notsupposed to hug the priest oh,
that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It's so funny.
I guess it's not against therules though no yeah, just go
hug a priest.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
No, it's not the during christmas, um, we took
the kids um when they wereyounger and they, like he, gave
them both cookies because, likehe, like he had parishioners
giving him all sorts ofChristmas treats and he's not
going to eat 800 cookies.
Yeah, so we're like we probablyneed to reinforce with the
children that they don't getcookies every time they go to
(26:18):
confession.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Right, that's not.
It's like getting a sucker.
They got God's grace, but youknow, yeah, have a cookie.
It's usually not in cookie form.
Holy cookies, that's funny.
Okay, so you're integratingthese things in your life.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I'll tell you, though , the biggest thing that I'm
integrating has been the divineoffice, and I mean, if I could
snap my fingers and make likeone change that I thought would
change the church and change theparishioners and change all of
us, it would be.
Everybody starts praying thedivine office every day morning
prayer and evening prayer, everysingle day yeah um, it's.
I mean, if you're not doing it,you need to.
(26:59):
It will change such a beautifulthing I.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
There was a period of time many years ago where I
tried, probably like right afterour first chirp or something
like that, and I either didn'tunderstand it or couldn't get it
, like you know, didn't quiteknow what to do, kind of thing
yeah but nowadays there's likeapps and stuff.
Well, there are apps, and sothat's that's so.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
The book is really confusing because they're trying
to take a little book, yeah youknow a thousand plus pages if
it's all printed out and get itinto like the one handheld book.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Um, but there is a book called, uh, the divine
office for dodos, that um, thatlittle angels carries, and um,
and I'll lend you a copy ifyou're ever interested if you've
still got your you knowChristian prayer book.
(27:57):
But the apps like you can getthe iBrevery, you can get the
Divine Office app.
Uccb has like the Divine Officeon their website every day.
Divineofficeorg has it like all.
I think both of those apps willactually pray it like podcast-y
style with you so that you canlisten to it and then pray along
on the app.
But I think it is beautiful tolearn to pray it from the book
because you start understandinghow it's structured.
But truly to me, the mostimportant part of that is
(28:20):
praying with the Psalms and thecanticles.
Right Canticle meaning song.
So you are praying along withall, but I think, like three of
the imprecatory Psalms, which Iguess they figured isn't really
totally appropriate, theimprecatory Psalms being the
ones where it was like God,please smite him, cause he
deserves it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Which is, you know, probably not quite as
entertaining as the end of thebook of Jonah.
Yeah, and there were manycattle as well.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But book of jonah, yeah, and there were many cattle
as well, yeah, but um, it is soenriching.
Like you first of all, youbegin to realize that's what the
psalms were like.
They're not just.
Here's some poems like theywere prayers.
All 150 of them were prayers,some of them short.
You know one that was two linesyeah um some of them incredibly
long yeah but they're allprayers and they're all models
(29:17):
for prayer for us and becausethey cover all seasons yeah joy
and sadness and loss and fear,like they will enrich your
prayer life, they will teach youhow to pray and, ultimately,
they are practiced for ourultimate destination, because
(29:38):
our ultimate destination is theliturgy of the afterlife.
It is to be in communion withGod and to worship Him right.
And to praise Him.
And how many of us are in thehabit of praising God every
morning and every evening?
How many of us are in the habitof making sure that, regardless
(30:02):
of what's going on in my life,I'm going to recognize that God
is beyond me, that he holds usin existence, that he continues
to do it out of love and that Ishould be grateful for
everything that I've had?
Yeah, element, and probably themost impactful, because it is,
(30:28):
um, it's changed my prayer lifeand it's changed a lot of my
outlook, and it has been asource of patience and humility
and comfort.
You know a couple of times thatI can go back to what's
important.
I can go back to what like whatmy center is, to what the most
(30:48):
important thing is, which is God.
But the other thing that itreally does, which is great, is
it keeps you in touch withliturgical seasons.
So today is the Solemnity of StPeter and Paul, right Unless I
was going to Mass for Saturdaymorning Mass.
I wouldn't have known that if Iwasn't praying in the office.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yep, yeah, yeah, was going to mass for saturday
morning mass.
I wouldn't have known that if Iwasn't praying the office.
Yep, yeah, yeah.
So one of the things that Istarted doing, I guess, a
handful of years ago, wheneverthe bible in a year first came
out, I did that, so I integratedthat into my morning prayer
time.
Yep, when that was done, I waslike, well, heck, now, what do I
do right?
So then start over.
(31:28):
Well, so I thought about it andand um the.
What I did instead is I startedreading the daily, um daily mass
readings the readings from themissile yeah, yeah and what's
interesting too, thinking oflike my growth in it is, at
first I I would just kind ofskip through the psalm and I
(31:50):
would just do the Old Testamentgospel, and I never really
thought about why, other than inmy mind it must have somehow
been trivialized right.
And then that turned into ahabit and there was something
about probably a year ago or sowhere I just kind of had this
(32:18):
epiphany that I was skipping outon something that I shouldn't
be.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And so then, I started reading the psal every
morning, the Psalm that goeswith the Mass in the daily
reading.
And they're beautiful, and ofcourse, I'd heard them all
because I did Bible in a Yearand all that stuff.
But there is something I thinkthat is, sometimes, depending on
the Mass readings, the OldTestament readings might be a
(32:46):
little bit hard or difficult tofind some kind of contemplative
inspiration in.
You're like, okay, now they'reunder siege or something like
that.
You're like, what is that?
Am I under siege in my life,Lord, Right, but the Psalms
almost always there is somethingthat you can stop and think
(33:07):
about and reflect on when youread the Psalms.
That's right, and so I foundthat to be extremely helpful.
Yeah, Maybe sometimes even moreso than the Gospels, but
probably because I'm just sofamiliar with the Gospels
because you hear them all thetime.
Right, oh, he healed the leper.
Okay, I've heard it a thousandtimes, but I've never really
(33:29):
paid attention to the Psalms theway I am now, and so now every
time I read the full office.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
So office of readings morning prayer evening prayer,
midday prayer and night prayer,then you will go through the
(33:57):
full Bible over the course ofthat.
And so Sacrosanctum Conciliumcalls the divine office truly
the voice of the bride addressedto her bridegroom.
It is the very prayer whichChrist himself, together with
his body, addresses to theFather.
It is the prayer of the church,and it is meant to pray
(34:23):
constantly.
Right, the exhortation of StPaul to pray constantly.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
is that prayer?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And again, it's for our benefit.
We are benefiting the world whenwe pray together as a church.
We're sanctifying the world whenwe pray together as a church,
but what that means is thatwe're sanctifying ourselves,
that we are being sanctified bythe prayer of thousands, tens of
thousands, millions of otherpeople who are praying along
(34:54):
with us, and we're beinguplifted and we're being filled
with the Holy spirit and we'rebeing changed into our original
form of what we were meant to be.
So the um, the beauty of thedivine office and the beauty of
praying, along with the Psalmsand with the prayers of the
(35:16):
cycle of the liturgy, is let memake another quote the
excellence of Christian prayerlies in this that it shares, in
the very love of the onlybegotten son for the father and
in that prayer which the son putinto words in his earthly life
and which still continuesunceasingly in the name of the
whole human race and for itssalvation, throughout the
(35:39):
universal church and all itsmembers.
Christ's sacrifice, his priestlyprayer, his teachings, all of
that continues in the Mass, Allof it continues in the Divine
Office, All of it continues inthe liturgy in which we
participate, and liturgy is whatwe were made for.
(36:02):
We were made for worship.
There's a book and maybe we canget Father Stephen to
participate in an episode aboutthis, but Pope Benedict, when he
was just the Cardinal, wrotethis book called the called um
the spirit of the liturgy umwhich was based on a uh, a
Spanish uh, I think authors umearlier version of that, but um,
(36:24):
he talks about the fact thatthe purpose of the, of the
purpose, I mean religion.
Father Mike says all the timereligion, the center of religion
is worship, and the center ofworship is sacrifice.
Yep, so that sacrifice is theliturgy.
When we are participating inthe Mass, we're not just
participating in an observation.
(36:45):
Heaven touches the earth andwe're a part of that heavenly
choir of angels and saints.
We're part of.
You know what the shepherds sawthe night of the nativity?
We're a part of that heavenlychoir of angels and saints.
We're part of.
You know what the shepherds sawthe night of the nativity.
We're part of all that.
Yeah and um, there's a, there'slike, there's so much, I think,
behind the idea of liturgy andbehind what it means to worship,
(37:06):
and behind, even, like, thecosmos is built in such a way
that it is the type of templethat proceeds.
You know that, that thatproceeds all of our earthly
temples and is still just areflection of the heavenly
temple.
Um, but our liturgy is aparticipation in that.
So, like when we're praying,whether we're just praying for
(37:27):
ourselves and our family orwe're praying along at mass um
or we're praying the divineoffice we're we're making that
spiritual sacrifice, we'regiving of ourselves to god and
hopefully we are listening tohim and receiving the gifts he's
given us and giving those giftsback to him yeah, there.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It makes me think of a couple things.
One, how, how so many of usonly experience where heaven and
earth touches once a week?
How many of us experience whereheaven and earth touches at
(38:07):
Easter and Christmas only?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Sometimes at Easter and Christmas.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Sometimes at Easter andChristmas.
You know what I mean, becauseyou're just missing out.
You know what I mean.
There's just, oh, it almosthurts your heart because it's
like whenever you see somebodywho abuses himself, right, or
(38:37):
somebody who's hurting, orsomebody who doesn't realize how
much they're loved, kind ofthing, somebody who's hurting,
and your heart breaks for thembecause you know they're made
for so much more than what theirexperience is Right.
It also makes me think I washaving this conversation, right.
It also makes me think I washaving this conversation.
I think it was this week thisyoung lady that I work with and
(39:00):
she's native Spanish speaker andwas raised Catholic.
I was like yeah you want to cometo Mass, we can go to the
Spanish Mass and she goes.
Well, she knows I don't speakSpanish, she goes.
You're not going to understandanything.
That's going on, not true?
And I was well, yeah, I guess,to be more precise, you're not
going to understand.
(39:20):
You won't understand what thepriest is saying, particularly,
I think, as she was implyingduring the homily, yeah, and or,
I guess, the readings, whenthey're reading the scripture.
And I was like, well, first ofall, I can read along in English
, that's fine.
And second of all, if the onlything I miss out on is the
(39:47):
homily, that's okay, becauseit's about more than that.
And that was like a mind-blownkind of thought for her, like
what do you mean?
It's about more than what theguy is saying.
And I guess she's not wellcatechized.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
It's like Protestant point of view.
Yeah, like the highlight is thepreaching.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Not the liturgy of the word.
Yeah, and there is no liturgyof Eucharist anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, and so it was again this misunderstanding.
And, like I was saying, thefirst part is how many people
are missing out on the fullnessof what it means to be a
disciple of Jesus?
Yeah, that, through prayer andthrough working in your
(40:33):
community.
And you're not going to church,you're not going to Mass to be
entertained or to hear goodmusic or to even necessarily
understand what's being said.
You're going to pray, you areoffering sacrifice, which is why
you can go to the VietnameseCatholic Church down the street,
(40:54):
and it's fine, you can go tothe Saro Malabar Catholic Church
.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Not even Western right, I mean Latin right, it's
Byzantine, but it is valid massand you receive the body and
blood of Christ while you'rethere.
Yeah, it's also disappointingbecause we have so many people
who believe that faith andknowledge are inconsistent, that
(41:27):
faith and science areinconsistent with each other,
that, um, you know they believethe lies of the accuser, like
this is just a fairy tale.
It's not really true and youknow, other than patience and
living the gospel, I don't knowthat there's a better way to get
(41:47):
through to anybody who'sconvinced themselves of that,
until they're ready, untilthey've come to a point in their
lives where they need to, theyrealize they need to change,
they realize that what they'redoing and how they're living
isn't working.
I mean it is astonishing howoften we have to hit rock bottom
before you can make a change.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, father, and Steven and I have talked
about that before is why does itseem like we have to?
We have to be on the path ofdestruction.
We have to integrate ourdiscipleship into our lives so
that we're— because I can'tconvert people, jesus converts
(42:45):
people right, I can't savepeople, jesus saves people.
If I integrate my discipleshipfully into my life, then,
through example, people will bedrawn to Christ.
And they're not drawn to me,they're drawn to Christ because
I'm a shadow of the glory of God.
(43:06):
Right At best, right, right.
So another statement that wassaid was well, I can kind of be
religious without having to goto church.
And I just started smiling andI was like I don't think you
understand is what I wanted tosay.
(43:28):
It's like I'm married and Ilove, love my wife and I love
her with all my heart.
I think about her all the time,but I never go see her.
When I have the opportunity togo see her, by choice, not by
necessity, like my job puts meon the other side of the world
and I can't go see her.
But I literally have the chanceto see her every single day,
(43:49):
but I choose not to.
It's not much of a relationshipRight, even though I claim to
love her so much, and so thatdisconnect.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
It's.
I mean it is.
It's a logical inconsistencythat's earth shatteringly huge.
If you start to talk throughthose first principles, you know
the, the logical necessity thatFather Stephen's fond of
talking about.
But it's.
You can't be in relationshipwith somebody If you have no
(44:20):
intimacy, it's just, it'simpossible.
And if Christ truly died androse, then that is the single
most important fact of our lives, more important than anything
else that can or ever will be.
So you can't tell me thatyou're Christian if you don't
act like that's the single mostimportant fact of your life.
(44:43):
Yeah, I get it Like we're allbroken and so we all fail and we
all sin, but I'm stillspiritual.
Yeah, kind of thing Like well,I'm still spiritual.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, kind of thing.
Like well, what does?
Speaker 2 (44:57):
that mean.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Like what is your, what is your center, what is
your North star?
What do you?
What do you put your faith in?
What do you put your hope in?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, it's also is is God a vending machine for you
or is God your father?
You know so, as you're learningall these things and you're
integrating these things in yourlife, what has been the part of
your life where youconsistently go oh, I suck, you
(45:26):
know, like this is this thingthat I have to keep coming back
to, because I know God ishealing me in this.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And I'm aware of it, but man, I'm just I'm not very
good at this thing.
Do you have something like that?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I think it's.
I mean, I think it's a bigbundle of things, but I think so
much of it kind of comes downto the need to control, and you
and I talked about that evenwhen we first met, about the
need to control and the need tobe in control and the fact that
none of us are in control.
But like I mean, if there's onething that's going to make me
(46:09):
have a bad day, it's somethinggoing wrong.
That's going to make me have abad day.
It's something going wrongwhich is like when I say it is
the silliest thing, I couldpossibly say right, like of
course things are going to gowrong, it is baked into the pie.
That's kind of like owning abeater of a truck and then being
surprised when you have to takeit into the shop yeah, what do
you mean?
Speaker 1 (46:27):
it broke well.
What do you expect, right?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
like, what did I expect?
Um, but like, it'll get me in abad mood.
It can get me angry you get mesnapping at people.
It can make me impatient, itcan make me ungrateful, um, it
can make me want to turn to youknow, those things that I think
are going to make me feel better, which I, you know, I
intellectually recognize, don'tlike.
All of those things.
It ultimately is that desire andthat need to be in control, and
(46:55):
I think that, being a part ofthe formation process, I'm going
to be told like, this is whatyou're going to do, this is
where you're going to do it,like I won't be in control, and
I think that I just, you know, Igot to keep getting beat over
the head with the lesson of youknow, this is what it means to
(47:16):
be patient, this is what itmeans to be humble, this is what
it means to, you know, acceptthe will of God in your life.
I struggle with that, probablymore than anything else, and it
probably stems from, you know,the loss of my father when I was
15, and you know, and all thestuff again that we've talked
about before.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
But ultimately my father when I was 15, and you
know, and all the stuff againthat we've talked about before,
yeah, but ultimately, um, I, Ican't do anything but offer that
up to God.
I can't do anything.
But you say all that I am goodand bad is is for you do
something with it, do what youwill with it.
But I do think it helpstremendously to have other men
and women around you who loveyou as a brother and sister, who
(48:03):
are praying for you and whohave their own challenges and
their own sins, to realize, likeI don't have to be that person
and I don't have to accept thatI can continue to turn to Christ
and I can continue to turn backand ask for that help and pray
(48:24):
for that help and and offer thatup.
And I don't know that I'm evergoing to be fully cleansed of
that until the second coming.
Like I don't know I'll ever becompletely free of that.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Because Satan's going to keep attacking me at my weak
points, right, he's going tokeep attacking me there.
But I hope and I pray and Ifeel like I'm making some
progress and ultimately, I mean,it was kind of a big revelation
to realize, dude, you're not incontrol like even the least
little bit.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, isn't it weird, too, the way that we will.
Well, some people struggle.
I guess I'm fine being toldwhat to do, because I maintain
this lie in my head that, okay,you've told me to go do this
thing, but I'm going to be.
I'm.
(49:17):
I'm going to be in control ofhow I now go do this thing, and
so it's.
It's weird.
It's like, oh yeah, you know,no, I'm.
I'm fine being asked to dothings because I'm still in
control More ha ha, it's soweird.
It's like everybody whostruggles with control issues
should be put in a room andsomebody should dump out a box
(49:40):
of 100 gerbils or something likethat, and they should be told
to wrangle them back up, putthem back in the box.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
We all have this secret narrator in our head
that's telling us a story aboutwhat just happened to us.
Yeah, and it's almost alwaysfilled with, you know, lies or
distortions.
Like you know, I came in andthe first thing that happened
during my day, when I was goingto go try to get other things
done, is I had an emergency cropup, you know, and my boss's
boss is asking for something,and now I've got to go
reschedule and I've got to go,you know, and it's going to be
(50:10):
stressful and you know, and likethat is a story.
And then there's this otherstory that is the identical set
of circumstances and theidentical set of facts, but that
story is you're being given yetanother opportunity to show
your value to the organizationand to be somebody who they can
(50:30):
put their trust in and to helpin a way that nobody else can
help.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, they needed someone and it was you.
You're the person they thoughtof, right.
You're the person they trustedto solve this emergency thing
that came up.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
And it's like you know, that person's attacking me
.
Okay, I can tell myself thatstory, that that person is a
terrible person and they'reattacking me and they don't love
me and they want me to fail andall the other things that I
might want to tell myself, so Ican feel like a martyr.
Or I can get off that particularcross and say that person's
probably having a bad day andthat person's probably under
(51:02):
pressures that I have no ideaabout, and that person is
struggling and they're fearfulor they're hurting, and so
they're coming to me in a waythat isn't the way I want and,
by the way, they know nothingabout me, so they don't know
what I want, they don't know howto interact with me effectively
.
I can tell myself thatdifferent story and um, and
let's like.
This is one of the good thingsI think about the idea of um,
(51:24):
the, the kind of the um, theignation practice of I can't
remember the word um at the endof the day when you reflect on
your day.
Oh, I know what you're talkingabout the Ignatian practice of.
I can't remember the word um atthe end of the day when you
reflect on your day.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Oh, I know what you're talking about.
What is that called?
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Absolutely.
Think of it later.
Yeah, Um, but when you thinkabout how did my day go and, um,
and and where was I examined ofconscience?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
There you go, yeah, yeah Um.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
There you go, yeah, yeah.
So the daily examine, like ifyou're thinking about those
things.
You have a chance to retell thestory.
You have a chance to examinethat story in the light of
Christ.
You have a chance to askyourself and I shared this with
Grant, I think, so many yearsago, the first time I saw it on
the internet Did you really havea bad day, or did you just have
a bad five minutes that youmilked all day?
(52:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah bad fiveminutes that you milked all day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I thinkit is like it's.
One of the greatest blessingsin our lives is that most of us
get 80 years for our you know,stupid, recalcitrant, stubborn
selves to learn the lessons thatgod's put us on here on the
earth, to learn which is thishow you love, this is what you
(52:33):
were made for, and I think thatthose practices help us.
I think that divine officehelps us to grow closer to God
and to learn to truly love himand glorify him in our lives.
I think that the daily exam Imean people who reject the
Catholic Church are rejecting avast treasure trove of gifts
(53:00):
that we were given because Godwants to draw us closer to him,
and it's a shame because they'refree, like there's more gifts
than you could possibly everconsume and they're all just for
the asking Come, have food anddrink.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, eat and drink without cost right.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, yeah.
It's so interesting and I keepreflecting on how, as you
continue to grow in intimacywith Christ through this
diaconate formation, how that'sgoing to affect how you do
everything right, how it's goingto transform your life.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
It is and it's certainly in ways I won't know
Like 50% chance that I'll beassigned to a parish other than
the one that I currently attend,just based on what's been
happening recently, like that's,that's okay.
Um, presumably, if I get there,the Bishop is going to have a
conversation with me.
We're going to talk about whatare some of the ways that I
could serve and, regardless ofwhat I think, I will have sworn
(54:10):
a vow of obedience and he'lltell me how I can serve and
maybe I'll be granted yetanother opportunity to practice
humility and patience.
Yeah, Cause I'm never going tobe able to get too many.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
No, it always makes me.
Whenever somebody says evenjust the word patience, I always
think of skip, where he's.
Like God, give me patienceright now.
It just always makes me laugh.
That's funny.
So what's?
Speaker 2 (54:38):
next.
So what's next is I'm waitingto hear back on the application
for aspirancy.
I'm prayerfully hopeful thatFather Edwin didn't say, no,
this guy's a putz.
I think all the stuff that wewent through like it all went
fine, so um.
(54:58):
So in september we'll startback up.
We're going to be in there, um,for a full weekend once a month
um.
So saturday morning to sundayevening, including overnight, in
the casas at saint rafael,it'll be more classwork, it'll
probably be some other things,but they haven't really told us
(55:18):
what.
I assume we'll have adoration,we'll have some fellowship and I
know we'll do masses togetherand those kinds of things, as
well as the cohorts.
And after that second year,unless I discern out, like the
third year, and after thatsecond year, um, unless I
discern out, like the third year, we start with um.
I think it's the the wives nolonger must attend, but um, I
(55:39):
start doing once a month, friday, uh evening, and all day
Saturday at university of Dallasfor more Um.
We go on, uh the St Raphael forday long um sessions that are
probably not academic, yeah.
To St Raphael for day longsessions that are probably not
academic, yeah.
And then I think third year iswhen we would start with RCAA at
another parish so that we canget practice.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Because it's six years of formation.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
It's six years of formation in the diocese.
Yeah, I love that it is.
It's really fascinating becauseI have a colleague who was a
deacon in his church of Christand I mean, like I don't even
know if he would have.
Like it's like the council ofelders said it was okay, you
know, and they, you know, likethey vote every year, and so I
(56:24):
think it's pretty.
It's probably pretty alien toto some of our separated
brethren the idea that you needto discern for six years because
you are making a permanentcommitment to the church and to
her people to serve in the roleof christ yeah, it's, and it's
also that the thought the thedifference between I want to do
this thing or I'm being calledto do this thing.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Am I truly being?
Speaker 2 (56:46):
called yeah, yeah that's.
I mean, that's an opportunityfor us every day, yeah, what am
I being called to do?
What am I being called to do?
What am I being called to donext?
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, and in this moment, yeah, right, well, cool,
well, man, we talk, we talk abunch, so we do.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Let's uh, let's wrap this up, and then you know what.
Let's just do like a bonuswe're talking about.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Oh, you know what we're going to talk about some
of the speculative theology.
Oh yeah, I've already got onetopic for you Aliens yes.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yes, all right, guys, we'll see you next time for
aliens.
God bless.
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