July 26, 2024 • 55 mins
In this episode, John and Chris consider ink as a metaphor Chris developed in a song he wrote after dropping off his oldest daughter at college.
Our upbringing and relationships significantly shape us, much like ink colors a page. Drawing from personal stories—including the contrasting influences of a paralyzed uncle and a distant father—we delve into the importance of guidance and the transformative power of God's love. Reflecting on early human actions and the notion of "God ink," we contemplate how divine guidance provides a constant, unchanging influence that helps us navigate everyday challenges and relationships with grace.
Parenting is a journey that requires courage, intentionality, and a steadfast integration of faith. Sharing experiences of raising children and the fear of being too overtly Christ-like, we underscore the importance of winning souls and consistently bringing conversations back to God. We also touch on the necessity of forgiveness, inspired by Jesus' unconditional love, as we navigate significant emotional pain and relationships. Join us for a reflective and inspiring discussion on the enduring influence of divine love and the beauty of shared human experiences.
Have something you'd love to hear Fr. Stephen and John talk about? Email us at myfriendthefriar@gmail.com or click here!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the my Friend the Friar podcast and
thanks for listening.
If you like my Friend the Friarand want to support us, please
consider subscribing orfollowing us.
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release.
Thanks again and God bless.
(00:21):
I was going to say maybe he'sfrom the future.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Maybe it's Britt's long-lost brother.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Maybe, maybe it's her long-lost.
Well, you said brother, I wasgoing to say twin, but that's
the same thing, same thing.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It would be her brother yeah, but it would be
cool.
Long-lost twin, because shedoes look a lot like her brother
.
Yeah, but it would be cool Longlost twin, because she does
look a lot like her dad.
She's way prettier than her dad, but she looks a lot like her
dad.
Yeah, but man, this dude looksjust like him.
I wish I had a picture tocompare him, but I don't.
But it's crazy how much helooks like him.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thunder only happens when it's raining, are you ready
?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I'm waiting on you.
I was waiting on you.
Yeah, I'm waiting on you.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I thought you were still setting stuff up.
No, I'm done, I'm waiting onyou.
I was waiting on you.
Yeah, I'm waiting on you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I thought you were still setting stuff up.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, I'm done.
I'm just setting up your heart.
My heart's set up.
All right then, welcome to thepodcast.
Thanks for joining me, and myfriend.
Oh, you're not the friar.
I'm not the friar, no, but it'sokay.
Yeah, you know for the long,because he's a.
He's a discalced Carmelitepriest.
(01:50):
That's so hard for me to say.
Discalced Carmelite priest itmeans without shoes, gotcha, I
couldn't say for the longesttime.
I've never heard that word inmy life.
Yeah, no shoes.
You can go home and be like I'mdiscalced.
Just kick off your shoes, I'mgoing to do that tonight Babe.
I'm discalcing.
(02:10):
Just look at y'all side eyes.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
What the heck does that mean?
Watch my?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
feet.
Okay, we are talking todayabout ink Ink.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're talking about ink Ink.
We're talking about ink Ink and.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We're talking about how we color each other's lives.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, so this is one of our random side, like work
conversations, kind of thingsthat we thought there was
something worth digging into.
So what?
Just high level broadbrushstrokes?
Where in the world did you comeup with this, this thought?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I was driving and I was thinking about my oldest
daughter in college and how it'slike she's 20 years old and she
no longer lives at home and sheused to be a baby and now she's
not.
And that time went by reallyfast.
Yeah, and you know, I've alwaysbeen a poet.
(03:16):
I've been writing poetry sinceI mean as long as I can remember
and once I learned how to putwords together most people are
poetry, poets, and they don'tknow it, they don't.
Most people are and if youreally put your mind to it, you
can.
You can be a poet, because it'sjust taking the words out of
your head and putting it onpaper and rearranging it a
little bit.
So, anyway, I'm driving and Iget a lyric comes to me and I
(03:45):
don't not verbatim, I don'tremember how I put it in the
song and I don't rememberexactly how verbatim it came to
me, but it came to me and it wasbasically.
The lyric is baby girl, thankyou for allowing us, or mom and
I, to be drops of ink in the penthat you're using, like the pen
(04:05):
that she's using to write herlife, the story of her life.
The story of her life, yeah, andmy daughter's always, she's
like me, she's always been awriter, fantastic writer.
She's way better than I've everthought about being.
She has some great stuff.
And so when I thought of thatlyric, the whole ride home, I
was kind of putting a songtogether and the song kind of
(04:26):
pieced together.
The first of it is like herbeing a baby, and then it's her
being a little girl and then hergrowing up and leaving, and the
whole thought of it is is likeI got to be and I continue to be
drops of ink in the pen thatshe's using to write the story
of her life.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I want to thank her for allowing using to write
the story of her life yep andI'm.
I want to thank her forallowing me to be be a part of
that yeah, and when you thinkabout it, it, yes, she allows
you to be.
But no matter what you're still, you're still providing ink to
your child's life, whether theywant it or not right and so it's
just kind of the concept of wefeel each other, whether we know
(05:08):
it or whether we do know it.
We feel each other with the inkthat we have in our lives.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And it's just kind of a cool concept.
And you, we were talkingearlier and one of the things
you brought up was which Ithought was really cool.
It was like you have, you havelike, say, you have yellow ink
oh yeah, and I have and I haveblue ink and you, you give me
(05:35):
some of your yellow ink and Igive you some of my blue ink,
and then it makes green ink andyeah just kind of how we mix ink
it sounds so funny like justlistening to somebody talk about
ink, but I guess the wholething is that we influence we,
we all, we all play a part.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
We all influence each other when we know each other
right.
You influence the people aroundyou and we all influence each
other in unique ways.
And so, um, whereas you, ifyou're having a good day, you
can make somebody else's daybetter, if you're having a good
day, you can make somebodyelse's day better, if you're
having a bad day, maybe you canmake somebody else's day worse
right, so that's the color right, and so we can contribute
(06:13):
things in it, and as we haveserious relationships,
meaningful relationships, likerelationships of family friends,
marriage, whatever thoserelationships we contribute, we
play a big part in affectingeach other and we affect how
(06:33):
those people will perceivethings, especially our kids
right so we teach them.
They learn to see the worldpartly through our eyes, because
they're seeing.
Well, this is growing up.
This is how my parents thoughtabout something, so I'm kind of
my thinking is going to alwaysbe kind of skewed toward what
they think or what they thoughtright, because that was how I
(06:56):
was exposed to it.
And so we start to color the inkin the pens of each person,
person right, and how they writethe story of their lives and
it's it's.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's such a cool concept because, like you you
mentioned, like we, we take whatour parents, like, give us and
that that kind of starts our inkright, that that kind of starts
the pen being full of ink.
And then, as we get to thedifferent stages of our lives,
we then start processing whatthat ink is and what each one of
(07:33):
our parents are giving us.
And we all come from differentbackgrounds, right?
Some of us have moms, some ofus have dads, some of us have
mom and dad at home, some of usdon't have any at home.
Some of us are raised by ourgrandparents.
Uncles, aun don't have any athome.
Some of us are raised by ourgrandparents, uncles, aunts,
whatever, friends, whatever.
But no matter what, you'reinfluenced by that.
(07:53):
You.
You gain ink from thoseindividuals.
But the older you get, the moreyou start to process what that
ink looks like in your life.
And then when you come to anage where you're you're able to
make a choice, you're you'reable to make a choice, you're
wise enough to decide okay, I'mgoing to take that ink or I'm
going to leave that ink right,and that kind of relates to our
(08:16):
I don't kind of I don't kind of.
it directly relates to ourrelationship with Jesus and it
goes right into thatrelationship with Jesus because
Jesus says here's the ink, takeit or leave it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know it's funny if we're talking about the story
of our lives.
He's the Word.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, what yeah Boom.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I didn't even think about that.
I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Until right now, until you said that, said that.
But yeah, he's like, and nomatter if we take the ink or not
, we're still affected by theink that god has produced for
the world.
No matter if we take it or not,it's the same with the
relationships in our lives.
Whether we take it or not,we're still affected by it.
The ink is still affecting whatwe do yeah whether we take it
(09:02):
or leave it, and so when we lookat that, in our relationship
with Jesus, jesus has a lot ofink.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
He wrote the whole story, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And we don't have that much ink, we're just drops,
and that's where that line camefrom is.
Thank you for allowing me to bedrops of ink in the story that
you're writing.
Well, you can say the samething to Jesus.
You can say the same thing toGod, god.
Thank you for allowing me to bedrops of ink in the story that
you're writing.
Well, you can say the samething to Jesus.
You can say the same thing toGod, god, thank you for allowing
me to be a drop in this story.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah or thank you for being the ink in my life.
Yeah, thank you for being theink in my life and then caring
enough about me to fill me withyour ink and let me ink other
people's lives, yeah, and that'ssomething that I think is
interesting too, because youkind of have to get to a certain
age before you start thinkingabout this, Like maybe old
(09:55):
enough for your daughter to begetting ready to go to college
or going to college or something, because when you're a kid,
everything is very egocentric.
It's just me, me, me, me.
This is my story and this iswhat I'm doing and whatever.
And you get old enough, youstart to realize how we
influence each other, and Ithink, probably, if you look at
(10:16):
the people who are the greatestsaints, they're not perfect,
they're not correct abouteverything.
They're like I think I've heardstories of some people getting
in fights and punching eachother when they're you know in
the face kind of thing had somekind of like bishop conference
(10:39):
or something like thrown down,but it's like so nobody's
perfect, but they have allrealized that they want their
life colored by Jesus, right,they want the story of their
life to reflect Jesus, and sothat is the biggest influence.
And so that's just something Iguess to think about, because
(11:03):
something that Father Stephenhad said once and it really
turned on a light bulb in myhead is our relationship with
God.
Because of our concubiscence,because of our brokenness, our
default Well sorry, our, our.
(11:24):
So sin is like this low-gradefever, right, like you're not
made to have sin but we all haveit.
But since we all have it andyou've had it since birth, we're
just used to it right, it'slike when your back hurts,
you're just like ah, this isnormal for me, right?
So that's our state of being.
So in that state, we look atGod and we think about okay, god
(11:49):
, you're my Father and I'm goingto judge my relationship with
you based on my relationshipwith my worldly Father.
Right, jesus, you're my friend.
I'm going to approach myfriendship with you as the same
way I approach my, or I'm goingto approach it with you the way
my earthly friendships are right.
So we let our worldlyfriendships influence our
(12:11):
relationship with God when itshould be Vice versa.
The other way around.
I should be looking at myearthly father, because I know
who my real father is.
I should be treating my friendsthe way that my truest friend
treats me.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right and so yeah.
So just this thought of how weengage with one another and how
we influence the stories of oneanother, Because I think last
time you were saying, too, youhad some rough moments as a kid,
right With your parents, andeven if you decide, you're
(12:48):
saying I don't want this ink inmy life.
I'm going to set this thingaside, it's still going to color
your life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Right.
And so I mean some of us havegreat parents, some of us have
not so great parents.
Some of us have really roughrelationships.
Some of us have greatrelationships with the people
around us.
Us have really roughrelationships.
Some of us have greatrelationships with the people
around us, but all of thosethings influence us, whether we
like it or not.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, and there's nothing you can do about it.
There's nothing you can do tokeep it from influencing,
because the fact that I'mputting them on the shelf in and
itself is it affecting me.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right, that is a that's, that's, that is a
consequence of that ink in mylife is how it affects me and me
sitting on the shelf.
And when you talk about how wetry to influence the people in
our lives and try to influencethe relationship with God, we're
(13:41):
trying to write with our ownink.
Right, we're trying to use ourown ink instead of using God's
ink.
And when we use our own ink,well, we're not.
We're not the master poet,we're not the master writer,
we're not the, we're not themaster editor.
We we're going to mess up andwe're going to, we're going to,
we're going to have to use some,some white out at some times.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And you had mentioned that's our sinful nature, right
?
Whether we want it or not, wehave it and we talked a little
bit about on the last podcastabout how we're born with that.
Yeah, we manipulate with ourdifferent cries when we're
babies and all that stuff, allthat stuff just intensifies.
The more we learn, the more wegrow, the more it just
intensifies and we finddifferent ways of doing that.
(14:26):
We're not.
We're not crying our hungry cryanymore, but we're doing
something else to get thatattention and we're doing this
to get that intentions.
Well, those intentions in thatstuff again, because we're using
the ink phrase.
That is the way we react andthe actions that we do are
direct reflections of how wewere raised and who we were
brought up by and who taught uswhat to do.
(14:46):
And I, I have a lot of papawisms, you know I call them.
My papaw isms there's a phrases,because the last one cracked me
the uh, the papaw isms, becausethat's who raised me you know,
my, my papaw raised me, um, Ibecame a marine because my uncle
got shot in the back of theneck and paralyzed for 22 years
(15:08):
when he fought in Vietnam.
And I sat when I was a kid andI sat next to him and he poured
that ink into me of wanting tobe a soldier, wanting to be.
Here's a guy that you know hewas, you know, 22 years old, got
shot in the back of the neckseven times and laid in the bed
and all he could do was look atthe ceiling and look at a TV in
(15:30):
front of him.
He couldn't move his body butyet he was still impacting my
life with his ink because hechose to make a positive out of
it.
And he didn't teach me aboutJesus.
He taught me a bunch about wwfand wrestling and, and I heard a
lot of war stories that Iwasn't supposed to hear in my
(15:50):
life.
Yeah, but it affected me.
yeah, very much affected me yeahand he affected me more than my
dad, who was fully capable of,of not paralyzed and all.
He affected me more than thanmy dad did, but that's the ink
that we're talking about.
Is he, whether he knew it ornot, he was impacting me in my
(16:12):
life and and and shaping who Iwas yeah well, that's anybody
and everybody that we come in incontact with.
I chose to accept that ink.
I didn't choose to accept mydad's ink, yeah, you know so.
It just no matter what.
But, but not accepting my dad'sink still affected my life, you
know, and uh, so it's, it's,it's, it's just a.
(16:34):
It's just a cool concept,because when just go back to the
beginning, when adam and evewere were born, when were
created, whatever you want tocall it.
They started shaping the inkthat was going to be passed to
the whole world at that momentand they started affecting each
(16:54):
other by each other's inks.
And as soon as they went awayand started trying to write with
their own ink, look whathappened Everything got
destroyed.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it's something like it only takes
like two chapters.
It only takes like two chaptersand we're murdering each other.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It goes down real fast, we go from paradise to
perfection and in two chapters,and we don't know what the
timeframe is.
We have no idea.
We have no concept of what time.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
As far as the story goes, yes, as far as the story
goes.
It's quick, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And boom, we're killing each other.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, you know it's funny too.
I'm thinking about somethingyou were saying, how we
influence each other and, likeyour uncle, imagine if instead
so for him his kind of nationalpride and the pride of being a
soldier and fighting for yourcountry and all that stuff that
stuff is what influenced him andthat's what shaped you right.
(17:51):
Imagine if all of ourinteractions in our life were
specifically formed by how muchGod loves you.
By how much God loves you Like.
How would you treat the vendorthat has at work, that has
failed you like seven times in arow?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right Like how would you interact with that person or
whatever?
How would you interact withyour daughter when she broke the
thing?
How would you, you know, whenyour wife had a rough day at
work and she's yelling at youkind of thing right Like or, or
whatever right Just you're in a,in a place that most people
just I'm done, I'm out of thisRight.
(18:34):
How would you treat that personif you were letting God's love
dictate how you engaged?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
a lot different way, different than than when I use
my own ink, when I use my my ownink to try to try to, uh um,
interact with that vendor.
Because it that it brings up agreat point, because when God
(19:04):
disciplines, it's just.
There's nothing that God does.
That's unjust.
We unjustly discipline all thetime, I think, because we act
out of that sinful nature andagain go back to the people that
shape our lives.
I spank my kids because I wasspanked as a child and I believe
(19:26):
it works, but my cousin, theydon't spank their kids because
they weren't spanked and theydon't believe.
My kids are well behaved andhers aren't.
You know, so it's that.
Do I think my, my discipline isjust yeah?
(19:47):
Does she think her disciplineis just?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Is either one of them , just I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
But when God disciplines, it is.
Yeah so if we could disciplinelike God, then everything we do
would be just right.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So that's that's what I think of is like when you
said, if we went to everyinteraction with anybody that we
have, every interaction withanybody that we have, if we went
to it with the God ink and usedthe God ink, then it would be
just.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, and that's really something interesting too
, because God's discipline isjust because he is just, yeah,
Like it's not a quality of Him,it is who he is right.
He is yeah, he is just yeah,Like it's not a quality of him,
it is who he is right, he is,yeah, he is just so when he in
the Old Testament says, israel,I need you to go and just, I
(20:38):
need you to kill every man,woman and child in here, right,
that is justice, that is hisjustice, it is his love, his
mercy, right?
So everything that we are like,you're talking about spanking
your kids for discipline, evenif it's as rightly motivated as
(21:01):
you could somehow be, becauseyou are not just and you're not
God, it is only a shadow of hisjustice, so it's never truly
just.
Yeah.
And so then that starts playingmind games with you, because
God, equally, will let you justgo and do whatever you wanna do,
yep, and he's gonna love you nomatter what.
Okay, so we, equally, we havethat kind of calling as parents
(21:21):
no matter what you do, I'm gonnalove you, no matter what.
But again, we're supposed to beemulators of God, right?
So God laid down the law he saidhere are the rules, here are
the guidelines.
If you live within this, youget life right To the fullest.
If you go outside of it, whichyou're free to do, it leads to
(21:44):
death, yeah Right.
And so you can't just be kindof parent that says, well, go
you, do you, yeah, when.
And I'll love you, no matterwhat, I'll be your friend.
Like you can't do that, youstill have to have boundaries,
yeah, like and.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And that's when, when I give my kids boundaries and I
think I mean three of my kidsare old enough to to start
understanding why thoseboundaries are there because I
love them.
I want them to understand thatthose boundaries are to keep
them safe and to help them growinto productive members of
(22:18):
society, and then they can teachtheir kids.
They can take what again takethe ink that mom and I give them
, or they can mix it with theirown ink, or whatever they want
to do with it.
But it is to it's to shape themand to form them into good
human beings, right?
well, we it's good at humanbeings as best we can be as best
(22:39):
we can be, and so but myeight-year-old she, she doesn't
care you know, she's like I'm,I'm not, I'm not worried about
being a productive member ofsociety.
I don't like it when you spankme you know, I don't.
I don't care why you do it, Idon't like it.
Or I don't like why you take my, my, uh um gaming system away.
(23:03):
I don't like why you take mytoys away or why you put me in
it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I don't like it.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And again, that's her at her age.
Whether she's receiving the inkor not, she's still she's.
She's being affected, whethershe takes it or not.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I mean honestly, at this age she kind of has to
take it because she don't have achoice.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
She's eight.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
She's eight years old .
So, she doesn't really have achoice.
My oldest do I still disciplinemy oldest.
She's 20 and she's in college.
But yeah, I still disciplineher, I still give her guidance.
I guess it's more in a guidancethan it is a discipline.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, well and appropriately, as you grow, it
changes, it changes.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I don't discipline my 20-year-old like I discipline
my 8-year-old.
Yeah, and I don't haveconversations with my
20-year-old like I have with my8-year-old.
It's completely different andthat's you know.
Going back to what we weretalking about earlier when we
were at work is and it justclicked in my head when I was
(24:06):
saying this is we give differentink at different times in our
kids' lives.
Oh yeah, and that's part of yoursong too.
Yeah, that's part of the songis because the song is when she
was a baby, when she was youknow.
Little girl, little girl into ateenager and going on and
moving off, and so we usedifferent ink at different times
(24:27):
.
It's still our ink, but it'sit's used differently.
Maybe, we have different coloredinks in.
You know, like when we're youknow we're sitting in a in the
conference room here and I seethat that dry erase board around
you.
Well, we use different colorsto to dictate different things
that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So maybe there's different ink that we use when
we when we're we're in differentstages of our kids' lives.
The cool thing about God is Godis just ink, right, he's just,
he's just God ink.
You know there's no, at leastwhen I think about it.
There's no different coloredGod inks.
(25:08):
You know, he's just God ink, heis.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And it's so cool because he can be just God ink
and still be exactly what weneed at every stage of our lives
, whether we know it or not, andwhether we understand it or not
, because our understandingdoesn't dictate who god is
correct.
God is god, and whether weunderstand the human side of him
(25:37):
or understand the god side ofhim, yeah, he's still god.
And so when you're talkingabout how, if we go to the
relationships and theinteractions that we have in our
lives and we go with it in aGod view or with a God ink, and
how is it different when we useours and when we use God, how do
(26:00):
we know if we're using God'sink or not?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
if we don't understand, yeah, or you don't
know God, or you don't know God.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's interesting, don't understand, yeah, or you
don't know God.
Or you don't know God, right,yeah, that's interesting.
That's interesting, yeah,because how do you?
How do you approach thehomeless person on the street
who's asking for money, who itonly takes you about you know
half a nanosecond to know howthey're going to spend that
money?
Yeah, how do you approach that?
If you're God?
(26:28):
Yeah, if you were Jesus, how doyou?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
approach that?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And if you're Chris, how do you approach that?
And if you're Chris who had abad day at work, how do you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
approach that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
If you're Chris who's tight on money, how do you
approach that?
But one of those things neverchanges is how Jesus approaches
it.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Absolutely, he's going to approach it the Jesus
way.
Every time, a million out of amillion times, he's going to be
Jesus and even when he was fullyhuman, he was still approaching
it how Jesus approached it.
No matter what you think, jesushad bad days.
(27:04):
Absolutely, jesus had bad days,but he still approached the
situation as Jesus.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
You think Jesus got angry?
Yeah, go ask the people in thetemple.
They'll tell you.
Tables were chunked and tableswere full.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, he threw together a whip real fast.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, he got angry, but he was still and let's go
back to the just.
It was still just.
He had every right to go inthere.
Whether it's we believe it ornot, he had every right to go in
there.
Whether, it's, you know, webelieve it or not, he had every
right to go in there and do whathe did.
And what he did was was justnow.
If we go in there and startflipping tables and start
(27:40):
whipping people and, you know,going nuts, is that just?
yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah don'tknow, but I know% that it was
just when Jesus did it, right,yeah.
And so again, whether weunderstand who God is or know
God, or want to know God, we mayknow God, but whether we want
(28:01):
to accept him, whether we wantto believe that he is or it
doesn't matter, the situation itdoesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
He is who he is and that never changes yeah you know
that ink never changes and italways is right yeah, yeah, the
the in the first part of thecatechism of the cath Church,
which is a book which is aseries of teachings and just
(28:35):
kind of deeper teaching on allthe things about the faith,
right, so like who is Jesus?
And it's chapters on just thatkind of thing.
What's the Bible Chapters onjust that?
What are angels, you knowchapters on just that kind of
thing?
What's the Bible chapters onjust that?
What are angels chapters onjust that?
So it's just like deep teaching, right?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
When it's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
If you read it, you realize how shallow it still is
Like it's so much more there,but anyway, one of the things it
talks about is how man is madefor relationship with God right
for relationship with God right.
And we have this innate desire,this longing to know him and
understand him and search forhim, which is why the thing that
is uncommon in the wholehistory of humanity is like
(29:18):
atheism, and everybody's gotsome kind of gods or God or
something somewhere, right.
So we have this understandingthat God is there and we're
searching, and so the wholefirst part.
It's really beautiful becauseit's this back and forth.
We've got some good episodes onit if you ever want to go check
them out, but it's this backand forth from God to humanity,
(29:42):
humanity to God, god to humanity.
How does he respond, how do werespond?
And how it turns into arelationship.
Anyway, something you had justsaid about just how we approach
things triggered that in mybrain and now, just trying to
recall all that about thecatechism, I totally lost where
I was going with it, but I don'tknow, it was really interesting
.
Maybe it was the thing whereyou're saying, like, whether we
(30:03):
want to believe or not.
Whether we choose.
Oh, there's no God out there.
Maybe there's a God where thefact that he is, that he exists,
whether we want to believe ornot, is coloring our ink.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It affects reality 100%, it's part of it, and
there's no escaping it right.
You can try all you want to,but at some point you are going
to understand who God is.
Yeah, at some point.
Yep, and it's because he isaffecting you with his ink.
Yeah, whether you.
But that's the beauty of God,right?
(30:36):
The beauty of God is I have it.
You can have it too.
Yeah, if you want it.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's something else.
Speaking of wanting it, therewas something else that we
talked about, and this would bea cool thing to kind of just
kind of continue this going is.
This made me think.
In our last conversation wewere talking I don't remember
how we got to it, but we weretalking about pain and the
avoidance of pain and all thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I don't know how we got there.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
But we were talking about it and I remember that I
said it's like once you trulyexperience pain.
You're like I don't want noneof that, right?
And it's funny I was thinkingabout it later because I have
morning prayer time, right.
So I'm sitting there and I'mlike what cowardice man, come on
, you're afraid of some pain, ofall the things you've been
through in life, you're afraid.
(31:30):
You're afraid of that.
Well, okay, there's nothingwrong with being afraid.
Yeah, you're going to let itaffect you, that's yeah.
That's cowardice, right, yeah,and you don't have to be like
Superman brave, you just got tobe like that, much more brave
than what you're afraid of.
Exactly, exactly, right.
And so that kind of made mestart thinking, being that I
used to coach, was and I guesswe were talking about boxing and
(31:51):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're talking about Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah.
And so I was like I wasthinking about the strategies
between, the difference betweenhaving a strategy when you're
playing a game of, you'replaying to win or you're playing
not to lose yeah, verydifferent.
And, as far as I'm concerned,playing not to lose, you're
playing not to lose.
Yeah, very different.
And as far as I'm concerned,playing not to lose, you're
going to lose, you're going tolose.
But if you're playing to win,you got a shot, you at least
(32:17):
have a shot to win.
Yeah, and so that seems to me tobe something that then affects
you personally, which, as we'resaying, affects the people
around you.
So what would it be like if youparented not to lose versus
(32:42):
parenting to win?
Man?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I love your questions because they, they, uh, and
this is, this is one of thosethat you told me you were going
to ask, but you didn't tell mewhat you were going to ask, you
said I've got some questions tothrow at you so what a good one
to start out with.
I think um, I'll start withthis that sometimes I have
parented not to lose.
(33:07):
Oh yeah, and I've been thinkingabout it.
I'm like crap.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I sometimes I have parented not to lose.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Oh yeah, I've been thinking about it, I'm like crap
, I think I do that all the time, all the time, and I think I
probably parent more not to losethan I do to win.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Which goes back to the fear of loss that we were
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And it connects directly to the fear of loss,
because a lot of the times I,you know, when I talk to my kids
, I I used to when I wereyounger and when I was on fire
for God, I used to bring Godinto every conversation.
I think we need to do that.
I think we need to and I'm notsaying use God as like the if
(33:49):
you don't do this, god's notgoing to love you.
If you don't do this.
This is not you know.
Don't just throw it in theirface.
God doesn't like this.
God doesn't like this.
God doesn't like this.
I don't think it's like that.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I think I remember you telling me once too is like
somebody said something whereit's like they're just waiting
for you to bring up God in everyconversation.
They're like, okay, when's itgoing to happen?
My kids used to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, they're like, I'm talking to them and then
it's just got.
How does it tie back to theBible?
How does it?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
tie back to the.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Bible, and so I let that dictate to where I stopped,
and I should have never stopped, should have never stopped.
I should always, no matter howthey react to it, I should
always bring it back to God.
It should always come back toGod.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Where you may be being afraid of becoming so
Christ-like that the world wouldreject you Exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I love that quote, man, I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Because that's exactly what I feared is like
I'm becoming too much likeChrist that my own kids don't
even want to be around me.
You know which.
That's a good thing.
Yeah, you know, I'm not sayingit's a good thing that my kids
don't want to be around me, butthey're hearing Jesus and at
some point again, at some point,they're going to understand it.
It's their choice.
(35:02):
And if they don't want to, butI still have to give it to them.
Yeah, god, when he sent JesusI'm not going to say he doesn't
care if we accept Jesus or notbut he knew that people were not
going to accept Jesus.
Yep, he knew that people weregoing to hate him and cuss him
out and spit on him, and he knewthat.
(35:23):
But he did it anyway.
Yeah, and he always made itabout Jesus.
And then, when Jesus was here,who did?
He always make it about God?
Everything he did, everyteaching, every miracle, every
healing, everything he did, hedid it for God.
In God's name, I'm doing thisand he's daddy's giving me the
(35:46):
power, right?
Yep?
And how we decide to do what wedo, god did it knowing that
half the time we're going toparent to not lose instead of
parent to not win.
He knew that, but he knewenough that he's going to give
(36:09):
us Jesus to fall back on andtake all that because we're
goofy jacked up humans, rightyeah.
So he stuck his we held his sonto a cross, killed him, watched
him come back to life so thatall those stupid decisions he
(36:33):
can take and put on that cross.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And so, getting back to the original question, what
would it, what would it?
I think you said what would itlook like?
Yeah, a parent, not to loseyeah, I think we would have some
pretty awesome kids.
I think we would have somepretty awesome courageous,
god-fearing, god-loving kids.
Um, I know the world wouldwould have the I'm and I'm
(36:58):
talking not just us as fathersourselves, I'm talking about the
world you know who didn'tparent to lose.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
God he played to win and he's still playing to win.
Right and guess what he alreadywon, but he's still playing to
win yeah, and that kind of goesback to if we approach
everything with the ink in ourpens, if we're writing our
stories in a godly way, in aholy way, in a holy way, if we
(37:27):
stop being afraid of being soclose to Christ that we lose the
world.
Yeah, that's.
Don't be afraid, we're notplaying afraid to lose.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Exactly Right we're playing so that the people of
the world see Jesus through us,because that's victory.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Jesus is victory.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
He never once played to not lose.
Yeah, he played to win everysingle time, yeah, and so, yeah,
I think we would have a lot.
You know, and I, I see in.
You know, social media isrampant and and man, more often
than not you see nothing butnegative, negative, negative,
(38:11):
negative, negative yeah but Iwas reading an article, and
again, we talk about this allthe time.
You remember one snippet.
It's a two-page article and youremember one section, one line,
yeah.
But I can't remember.
It was like Gen X or Gen Z, Idon't remember what it was, but
it was one of the youngergenerations and the article was
(38:33):
talking about how thatgeneration of young men in the
past however many generations ofyoung men it's been is one of
the strongest groups ofChristian young men that there's
been in so long.
Yeah, and one of the reasonswhy is because the world is
(38:55):
trying to take masculinity outof it so bad that these young
men are saying I just want to bemen.
Yeah, I just want to be a man.
Look, it gives me chills.
I just want to be a man and theworld is trying to tear that
away from us so bad.
It's so bad to be a man,because when you're a man, it's
toxic.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, toxic masculinity.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, throw out all those flash words or whatever
you want to call them, but it'sgood to be a man.
And these young men are seeingthat and they're like I'm tired
of the world telling me thatit's wrong to be a man.
Yep, you know.
And so when I read that article, I was like that is a good
(39:39):
thing, you know.
Yeah, but we go back.
It's exactly what we weretalking about.
Those young men are playing towin, they're not playing not to
lose.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
They're standing up to a world that is hey, I'm a
strong Christian young man and Iwant to grow into a strong
Christian man and I want to leadmy kids, whether that be my son
or my daughter, to be a strongChristian individual.
Yeah, so that tide is turning.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, and the church around any Christian community.
They can't approachChristianity.
Not to lose?
Yeah, they can't.
They have to be courageous.
You.
Not to lose?
Yeah, they can't, they have tobe courageous, you have to be.
That is, I really think, beingChristian, being a disciple of
Jesus Christ and following himto your death is the most
(40:29):
courageous and excitingadventure you could ever go on
in your whole life.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
How can it not be?
Yeah, how can it not be?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
You just gotta take a step.
Yeah, you gotta take a step.
You can't just sit there and donothing.
We were talking about that once, the other day too, whenever
that was.
But you gotta just take a stepand just let god guide you, just
keep taking a step.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And again, I know people have heard it a million
times and and from differentindividuals, but I heard it
first from my papa.
He was like every journey,whether it's a thousand miles or
one step, starts with one step.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And I know it's cliche and all that stuff, but
it's the truth.
Yeah, jesus' journey startedwith a step.
Jesus' journey to the crossstarted with one step.
Our journey with Jesus startedwith something.
You know, we weren't justsitting there.
I mean, maybe somebody, I don'tknow, but I just know my story.
(41:23):
I'm not just sitting there and,oh my gosh, I love Jesus.
Yeah, you know, it didn'thappen like that.
Yeah, I went through a lot ofstruggle and we talked about
this a little bit on the podcastWent through a lot of struggle
without Jesus and then I wentthrough a lot of struggle with
jesus, and a struggle with jesusis a whole lot better than a
(41:44):
struggle without him.
Yes, you know, always better,it's, always better it's still
struggle yeah but it's you knowagain, I was looking this little
reel that was on Facebook andit's like the group that does
them is called Happy Life, right, and it was talking about how
(42:08):
we dictate, how we let the worlddictate us.
And when they said that I waslike to me it was kind of an
oxymoron, because if we dictatehow the world, how we let the
world dictate us and this is mebeing analytical and going in
trying to find you know, butit's simple.
(42:29):
I'm just trying to make it moredifficult than it has to be
right.
Because if I'm letting themdictate me, then they're really
dictating me and I'm not reallydictating all that good stuff.
Right, yeah, but the concept ofit is is we choose how the
world affects us.
Yeah, we choose.
We can either let it make usmad, sad, happy, whatever, but
(42:51):
we choose that that person hurtme.
You chose to allow that personto hurt you.
Now they could do somethingthat hurts you and you didn't
choose for them to do that yeahand yes, it's gonna hurt, but
you choose how you continue yourlife after that person hurt you
.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, not that person right, yeah, you're never the
the only.
It's kind of like a captivebeing being held captive
mentality right like I can'tescape this thing, absolutely
you're the only one who'sholding yourself there yeah
right, and of course that'sreally easy for us, but I've
been in moments like that myselfwhere it's like I, I can't get
(43:31):
past it.
Yes, you can, yeah, you can you, just it's hard, it's hard but
we, we don't.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
We choose to play, not to lose.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, right, that's the fear.
Well, because what happens if Imove past this Exactly?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
What is it like on the other side?
Well, I'm too afraid to seewhat it's like on the other side
.
Yeah, you know and we go back to, you know, life, reputation and
desire.
You know what is the worldgoing gonna see me if I get past
this.
Yeah, you know what is theworld gonna look at me if I
don't get past this.
So, no matter what choice we'remaking, we're making it out of
fear of losing something.
(44:05):
Yeah, you know, and, and Ithink so many of us get caught
up in the easiness of notfighting to win.
It's easy to sit on thesidelines it's easy to just sit
in there and be all whoa me andyou know, oh, you hurt me.
So it's easy to blame thatother person because you don't
want to blame yourself, right,yeah, so well, and what happens?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
what would happen if you approach the person who hurt
you?
You approach them the way jesusapproaches us when we hurt him.
Yeah, man?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That is a question that I think we should ask
ourselves every single day,because when I was in one of the
lowest moments of my life andmy good friend Andy called me
and saved me from a very, verybad situation that I was in,
that's one of the things he toldme.
Bad situation that I was in.
That's one of the things hetold me and it's one of the
(45:04):
things that I think about a lot,because he said in that moment
he said you have to think abouthow minuscule it is how bad we
hurt each other on comparison tohow bad we hurt God on a daily
basis.
And when he said that it justman, it was so like gut
(45:27):
wrenching and it's probably thelast thing that I wanted to hear
, because it was the truth.
And it hit so hard because theperson that I love the most on
the planet hurt me the most atthat time and it led me to be
where I was at and again, we maybe going into that on another
podcast, I don't know yeah butit's not the time to go into
(45:49):
that right now.
I'm just using that situationbecause that was a moment when
it was.
You have to start playing towin right now, because you have
children that need you.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And this is nothing compared to how bad that you
hurt God on a daily basis, yeah,but he still loves you and
still cares about you and stillis there whenever you need him.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
He's not giving up.
He's still playing to win.
He's still forcing that ink I'mnot going to say force, he's
still providing that ink.
He's always there, he's notforcing it, but he's always
there, that pen is always fulland you can always go fill your
pen with the ink no matter what,and so it's.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, like the person who hurts, you, turn around and
forgive them the way Jesusforgives.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah and that's what I was Like.
It's hard for us to think abouthow bad they hurt us and
wanting to forgive them for it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Imagine somebody hurts your son.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Oh yeah, Somebody hurts your wife, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Somebody hurts your daughter.
Imagine loving the person whodid that so much and forgiving
them.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And great point, because Jesus died for the
person that hurt me, or my son,or my daughters, or my wife.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That's who he died for.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
He died for that person?
Yeah, just as much as he diedfor me.
You know I had a conversationwith my dad man.
It was a while back Cause Ihaven't talked to my dad in a
long time, but my dad strugglesabout you know, I've done so
much bad in my life.
I'm never going to heaven and Iwas like God.
You know that there's there'smurderers in heaven.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
There's rapists in heaven.
You got to hope man, you got to, just there's there's got to be
there's name, anything that'sgone wrong in the world, that's
bad, and there's somebody that'sdone it, that's in heaven.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
You, you know, and it's hard to understand that,
but that's again I don'tunderstand that love, because
there's people that I wanted atsome point in my life to die,
and jesus doesn't want us to dieyeah, yeah, and that's kind of
thinking, thinking about againhow we color each other's lives,
(48:23):
how we influence each other'slives, how we play to win not to
lose, how the struggle inunderstanding Jesus's divinity
right.
It's easy for us to understandthe human side of Jesus, but to
(48:44):
understand what he did.
Yes, he did as fully man, rightTo show us.
This is what humanity issupposed to be, this is how it
was intended.
This is the perfection ofhumanity, but also fully as God,
because that's Like the thingthat you can't be, but you are
(49:06):
made in his image.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
This is what you are called to be.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
This is what it means to be a son of God.
What?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
How do we grasp that Like?
How do we?
How do we grasp that Like?
How do we?
How do we?
We understand the, the, thehuman ink that God provides when
?
How do we get to the point towhere, and and again, it might
not be for us to understand, tounderstand that, to understand
(49:39):
the God side of God, or are wejust meant to understand that
the God side of God is the Godside of God and that's it?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think there's somethingFather Stephen always talks
about too is existing in thetension between two points.
Right so, god is man, god isGod, or sorry, jesus is man,
jesus is God, and we can'tcomprehend that God is human and
we can't comprehend that humanis God.
Right so, to somehow exist inthat tension and the goal, the
(50:15):
teaching and I hope I'm learningthis right from him is the best
place, one of the best placesfor us to exist in that tension
is in our prayer right, so likewe went to adoration once upon a
time right, and so just to sitthere in front of the Eucharist
and say, like, what does thismean?
(50:38):
Right and just to bask in thebeauty of this thing that your
brain is just aching to try andcomprehend or to exist in that
tension, to live out thattension by conforming our lives
to Jesus.
So when you see that thehomeless person who's you know
(50:58):
obviously not going to spendthis money on food kind of thing
and you had the worst day atwork and you know wife yelled at
you and your dog ran away andall that kind of stuff and to to
, in that moment to have thatawareness to go, I'm going to
make myself approach this personlike Jesus instead.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, you just wrote a country song.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think.
So my dog ran away, but no,yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
I'm going to choose to approach this person how god
would approach this person.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, I'm gonna enter into that tension of the
mystery that I can't comprehend,that the god jesus is god, he's
, he's, pure divinity and youknow there's, there's let's just
put a.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
And again, we've talked multiple times on here
that man I'm horrible withscripture memory.
I can tell you that I've readit in there or heard it in there
before, but I can't tell youwhere it is.
But there's a, a part in therethat I remember, where he's
talking and Jesus says you willbe able to do greater things
than I.
I don't comprehend doinggreater things than Jesus, but
(52:09):
he's saying with me you can dothat, like, if you allow me to
be in you and work through you,be in you and and and work
through you, you can do thesethings.
And can I comprehend that?
No, but can I listen to it?
Yeah.
Can I believe it?
Yeah.
Can I play to win and not losethrough it?
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
So why not do that Right?
Why not just understand thatGod is who he says he is, jesus
is who he says he is, and theycan do what they say they can do
.
And again, when I'm saying this, I'm talking to myself.
I might as well be, you know,looking in a mirror talking to
myself.
We just happen to be talking toyour, your listeners, and I
(52:56):
think some of them probablythink the same thing.
You know, they're, they'reprobably, you know, kind of
wrestling with the same thing.
Jesus tells me that I can dogreater things than him.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, you know, what's funny is um, today's uh
mass readings happen to be and Ijust clicked the dang button on
my phone Okay, the Solemnity ofthe Ascension of the Lord, and
I have a feeling that it's inthe gospel reading from today.
So I'm trying to look it upreal fast because that would
(53:37):
just be kind of kind ofcoincidental, uh, or a god
cadence I was gonna say that'snot coincidental, that's a god
cadential.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
However, you want to put that because you're about to
blow my mind if it's in thereyeah um, that would be wild if
if it's in there, because I Ijust, I just thought of it you
can do greater things than I.
Okay, jesus, if you say so,yeah, no, I don't think it is.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
It might be in a different version, because the
gospel readings from Mark, butthe gospel reading from today
was where, right before heascends to heaven, he says
whoever believes and is baptizedwill be saved.
These signs will accompanythose who believe right.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
That's why I was like oh, is this the same part?
Is it there?
Is it there?
But?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
I don't think it is.
I don't think it is, so itmight be a different version of
this recounting, anyway.
Anyway, man, this is good, thishas been good and hopefully
it's been good for everyone elseto think about or to listen to
and contemplate.
How are they filling the inkwells of all the people who, you
(54:52):
know, we play a part in theirlives and we influence them?
And as they write their stories, are we letting God influence
us so we can influence thosearound us?
It's good stuff.
It's beautiful, man.
It's beautiful.
Did you find it?
I found it.
Which one?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
is it?
It's John 14, 12 through 28.
Very truly, I tell you, whoeverbelieves in me will do the
works I have been doing, andthey will do even greater things
than these, because I am goingto the Father and I will do
whatever you ask in my name sothat the Father may be glorified
(55:24):
in the Son.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Amen, yeah, all right , that's cool.
We're going to end it with thatbecause it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
What an awesome way to end it, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
All right, everybody.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you, we will see you nexttime.
Bye, bye.
Welcome to the my Friend the Friar podcast and
thanks for listening.
If you like my Friend the Friarand want to support us, please
consider subscribing orfollowing us.
If you haven't already done so,and if you found us on YouTube,
then don't forget to click thenotification bell when you
subscribe so you'll be notifiedof new episodes when they
release.
Thanks again and God bless.
(00:21):
I was going to say maybe he'sfrom the future.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Maybe it's Britt's long-lost brother.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Maybe, maybe it's her long-lost.
Well, you said brother, I wasgoing to say twin, but that's
the same thing, same thing.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It would be her brother yeah, but it would be
cool.
Long-lost twin, because shedoes look a lot like her brother
.
Yeah, but it would be cool Longlost twin, because she does
look a lot like her dad.
She's way prettier than her dad, but she looks a lot like her
dad.
Yeah, but man, this dude looksjust like him.
I wish I had a picture tocompare him, but I don't.
But it's crazy how much helooks like him.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thunder only happens when it's raining, are you ready
?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I'm waiting on you.
I was waiting on you.
Yeah, I'm waiting on you.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I thought you were still setting stuff up.
No, I'm done, I'm waiting onyou.
I was waiting on you.
Yeah, I'm waiting on you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I thought you were still setting stuff up.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, I'm done.
I'm just setting up your heart.
My heart's set up.
All right then, welcome to thepodcast.
Thanks for joining me, and myfriend.
Oh, you're not the friar.
I'm not the friar, no, but it'sokay.
Yeah, you know for the long,because he's a.
He's a discalced Carmelitepriest.
(01:50):
That's so hard for me to say.
Discalced Carmelite priest itmeans without shoes, gotcha, I
couldn't say for the longesttime.
I've never heard that word inmy life.
Yeah, no shoes.
You can go home and be like I'mdiscalced.
Just kick off your shoes, I'mgoing to do that tonight Babe.
I'm discalcing.
(02:10):
Just look at y'all side eyes.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
What the heck does that mean?
Watch my?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
feet.
Okay, we are talking todayabout ink Ink.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're talking about ink Ink.
We're talking about ink Ink and.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We're talking about how we color each other's lives.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, so this is one of our random side, like work
conversations, kind of thingsthat we thought there was
something worth digging into.
So what?
Just high level broadbrushstrokes?
Where in the world did you comeup with this, this thought?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I was driving and I was thinking about my oldest
daughter in college and how it'slike she's 20 years old and she
no longer lives at home and sheused to be a baby and now she's
not.
And that time went by reallyfast.
Yeah, and you know, I've alwaysbeen a poet.
(03:16):
I've been writing poetry sinceI mean as long as I can remember
and once I learned how to putwords together most people are
poetry, poets, and they don'tknow it, they don't.
Most people are and if youreally put your mind to it, you
can.
You can be a poet, because it'sjust taking the words out of
your head and putting it onpaper and rearranging it a
little bit.
So, anyway, I'm driving and Iget a lyric comes to me and I
(03:45):
don't not verbatim, I don'tremember how I put it in the
song and I don't rememberexactly how verbatim it came to
me, but it came to me and it wasbasically.
The lyric is baby girl, thankyou for allowing us, or mom and
I, to be drops of ink in the penthat you're using, like the pen
(04:05):
that she's using to write herlife, the story of her life.
The story of her life, yeah, andmy daughter's always, she's
like me, she's always been awriter, fantastic writer.
She's way better than I've everthought about being.
She has some great stuff.
And so when I thought of thatlyric, the whole ride home, I
was kind of putting a songtogether and the song kind of
(04:26):
pieced together.
The first of it is like herbeing a baby, and then it's her
being a little girl and then hergrowing up and leaving, and the
whole thought of it is is likeI got to be and I continue to be
drops of ink in the pen thatshe's using to write the story
of her life.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I want to thank her for allowing using to write
the story of her life yep andI'm.
I want to thank her forallowing me to be be a part of
that yeah, and when you thinkabout it, it, yes, she allows
you to be.
But no matter what you're still, you're still providing ink to
your child's life, whether theywant it or not right and so it's
just kind of the concept of wefeel each other, whether we know
(05:08):
it or whether we do know it.
We feel each other with the inkthat we have in our lives.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And it's just kind of a cool concept.
And you, we were talkingearlier and one of the things
you brought up was which Ithought was really cool.
It was like you have, you havelike, say, you have yellow ink
oh yeah, and I have and I haveblue ink and you, you give me
(05:35):
some of your yellow ink and Igive you some of my blue ink,
and then it makes green ink andyeah just kind of how we mix ink
it sounds so funny like justlistening to somebody talk about
ink, but I guess the wholething is that we influence we,
we all, we all play a part.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
We all influence each other when we know each other
right.
You influence the people aroundyou and we all influence each
other in unique ways.
And so, um, whereas you, ifyou're having a good day, you
can make somebody else's daybetter, if you're having a good
day, you can make somebodyelse's day better, if you're
having a bad day, maybe you canmake somebody else's day worse
right, so that's the color right, and so we can contribute
(06:13):
things in it, and as we haveserious relationships,
meaningful relationships, likerelationships of family friends,
marriage, whatever thoserelationships we contribute, we
play a big part in affectingeach other and we affect how
(06:33):
those people will perceivethings, especially our kids
right so we teach them.
They learn to see the worldpartly through our eyes, because
they're seeing.
Well, this is growing up.
This is how my parents thoughtabout something, so I'm kind of
my thinking is going to alwaysbe kind of skewed toward what
they think or what they thoughtright, because that was how I
(06:56):
was exposed to it.
And so we start to color the inkin the pens of each person,
person right, and how they writethe story of their lives and
it's it's.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's such a cool concept because, like you you
mentioned, like we, we take whatour parents, like, give us and
that that kind of starts our inkright, that that kind of starts
the pen being full of ink.
And then, as we get to thedifferent stages of our lives,
we then start processing whatthat ink is and what each one of
(07:33):
our parents are giving us.
And we all come from differentbackgrounds, right?
Some of us have moms, some ofus have dads, some of us have
mom and dad at home, some of usdon't have any at home.
Some of us are raised by ourgrandparents.
Uncles, aun don't have any athome.
Some of us are raised by ourgrandparents, uncles, aunts,
whatever, friends, whatever.
But no matter what, you'reinfluenced by that.
(07:53):
You.
You gain ink from thoseindividuals.
But the older you get, the moreyou start to process what that
ink looks like in your life.
And then when you come to anage where you're you're able to
make a choice, you're you'reable to make a choice, you're
wise enough to decide okay, I'mgoing to take that ink or I'm
going to leave that ink right,and that kind of relates to our
(08:16):
I don't kind of I don't kind of.
it directly relates to ourrelationship with Jesus and it
goes right into thatrelationship with Jesus because
Jesus says here's the ink, takeit or leave it.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know it's funny if we're talking about the story
of our lives.
He's the Word.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, what yeah Boom.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I didn't even think about that.
I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Until right now, until you said that, said that.
But yeah, he's like, and nomatter if we take the ink or not
, we're still affected by theink that god has produced for
the world.
No matter if we take it or not,it's the same with the
relationships in our lives.
Whether we take it or not,we're still affected by it.
The ink is still affecting whatwe do yeah whether we take it
(09:02):
or leave it, and so when we lookat that, in our relationship
with Jesus, jesus has a lot ofink.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
He wrote the whole story, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And we don't have that much ink, we're just drops,
and that's where that line camefrom is.
Thank you for allowing me to bedrops of ink in the story that
you're writing.
Well, you can say the samething to Jesus.
You can say the same thing toGod, god.
Thank you for allowing me to bedrops of ink in the story that
you're writing.
Well, you can say the samething to Jesus.
You can say the same thing toGod, god, thank you for allowing
me to be a drop in this story.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah or thank you for being the ink in my life.
Yeah, thank you for being theink in my life and then caring
enough about me to fill me withyour ink and let me ink other
people's lives, yeah, and that'ssomething that I think is
interesting too, because youkind of have to get to a certain
age before you start thinkingabout this, Like maybe old
(09:55):
enough for your daughter to begetting ready to go to college
or going to college or something, because when you're a kid,
everything is very egocentric.
It's just me, me, me, me.
This is my story and this iswhat I'm doing and whatever.
And you get old enough, youstart to realize how we
influence each other, and Ithink, probably, if you look at
(10:16):
the people who are the greatestsaints, they're not perfect,
they're not correct abouteverything.
They're like I think I've heardstories of some people getting
in fights and punching eachother when they're you know in
the face kind of thing had somekind of like bishop conference
(10:39):
or something like thrown down,but it's like so nobody's
perfect, but they have allrealized that they want their
life colored by Jesus, right,they want the story of their
life to reflect Jesus, and sothat is the biggest influence.
And so that's just something Iguess to think about, because
(11:03):
something that Father Stephenhad said once and it really
turned on a light bulb in myhead is our relationship with
God.
Because of our concubiscence,because of our brokenness, our
default Well sorry, our, our.
(11:24):
So sin is like this low-gradefever, right, like you're not
made to have sin but we all haveit.
But since we all have it andyou've had it since birth, we're
just used to it right, it'slike when your back hurts,
you're just like ah, this isnormal for me, right?
So that's our state of being.
So in that state, we look atGod and we think about okay, god
(11:49):
, you're my Father and I'm goingto judge my relationship with
you based on my relationshipwith my worldly Father.
Right, jesus, you're my friend.
I'm going to approach myfriendship with you as the same
way I approach my, or I'm goingto approach it with you the way
my earthly friendships are right.
So we let our worldlyfriendships influence our
(12:11):
relationship with God when itshould be Vice versa.
The other way around.
I should be looking at myearthly father, because I know
who my real father is.
I should be treating my friendsthe way that my truest friend
treats me.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right and so yeah.
So just this thought of how weengage with one another and how
we influence the stories of oneanother, Because I think last
time you were saying, too, youhad some rough moments as a kid,
right With your parents, andeven if you decide, you're
(12:48):
saying I don't want this ink inmy life.
I'm going to set this thingaside, it's still going to color
your life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Right.
And so I mean some of us havegreat parents, some of us have
not so great parents.
Some of us have really roughrelationships.
Some of us have greatrelationships with the people
around us.
Us have really roughrelationships.
Some of us have greatrelationships with the people
around us, but all of thosethings influence us, whether we
like it or not.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, and there's nothing you can do about it.
There's nothing you can do tokeep it from influencing,
because the fact that I'mputting them on the shelf in and
itself is it affecting me.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right, that is a that's, that's, that is a
consequence of that ink in mylife is how it affects me and me
sitting on the shelf.
And when you talk about how wetry to influence the people in
our lives and try to influencethe relationship with God, we're
(13:41):
trying to write with our ownink.
Right, we're trying to use ourown ink instead of using God's
ink.
And when we use our own ink,well, we're not.
We're not the master poet,we're not the master writer,
we're not the, we're not themaster editor.
We we're going to mess up andwe're going to, we're going to,
we're going to have to use some,some white out at some times.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And you had mentioned that's our sinful nature, right
?
Whether we want it or not, wehave it and we talked a little
bit about on the last podcastabout how we're born with that.
Yeah, we manipulate with ourdifferent cries when we're
babies and all that stuff, allthat stuff just intensifies.
The more we learn, the more wegrow, the more it just
intensifies and we finddifferent ways of doing that.
(14:26):
We're not.
We're not crying our hungry cryanymore, but we're doing
something else to get thatattention and we're doing this
to get that intentions.
Well, those intentions in thatstuff again, because we're using
the ink phrase.
That is the way we react andthe actions that we do are
direct reflections of how wewere raised and who we were
brought up by and who taught uswhat to do.
(14:46):
And I, I have a lot of papawisms, you know I call them.
My papaw isms there's a phrases,because the last one cracked me
the uh, the papaw isms, becausethat's who raised me you know,
my, my papaw raised me, um, Ibecame a marine because my uncle
got shot in the back of theneck and paralyzed for 22 years
(15:08):
when he fought in Vietnam.
And I sat when I was a kid andI sat next to him and he poured
that ink into me of wanting tobe a soldier, wanting to be.
Here's a guy that you know hewas, you know, 22 years old, got
shot in the back of the neckseven times and laid in the bed
and all he could do was look atthe ceiling and look at a TV in
(15:30):
front of him.
He couldn't move his body butyet he was still impacting my
life with his ink because hechose to make a positive out of
it.
And he didn't teach me aboutJesus.
He taught me a bunch about wwfand wrestling and, and I heard a
lot of war stories that Iwasn't supposed to hear in my
(15:50):
life.
Yeah, but it affected me.
yeah, very much affected me yeahand he affected me more than my
dad, who was fully capable of,of not paralyzed and all.
He affected me more than thanmy dad did, but that's the ink
that we're talking about.
Is he, whether he knew it ornot, he was impacting me in my
(16:12):
life and and and shaping who Iwas yeah well, that's anybody
and everybody that we come in incontact with.
I chose to accept that ink.
I didn't choose to accept mydad's ink, yeah, you know so.
It just no matter what.
But, but not accepting my dad'sink still affected my life, you
know, and uh, so it's, it's,it's, it's just a.
(16:34):
It's just a cool concept,because when just go back to the
beginning, when adam and evewere were born, when were
created, whatever you want tocall it.
They started shaping the inkthat was going to be passed to
the whole world at that momentand they started affecting each
(16:54):
other by each other's inks.
And as soon as they went awayand started trying to write with
their own ink, look whathappened Everything got
destroyed.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it's something like it only takes
like two chapters.
It only takes like two chaptersand we're murdering each other.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It goes down real fast, we go from paradise to
perfection and in two chapters,and we don't know what the
timeframe is.
We have no idea.
We have no concept of what time.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
As far as the story goes, yes, as far as the story
goes.
It's quick, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And boom, we're killing each other.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, you know it's funny too.
I'm thinking about somethingyou were saying, how we
influence each other and, likeyour uncle, imagine if instead
so for him his kind of nationalpride and the pride of being a
soldier and fighting for yourcountry and all that stuff that
stuff is what influenced him andthat's what shaped you right.
(17:51):
Imagine if all of ourinteractions in our life were
specifically formed by how muchGod loves you.
By how much God loves you Like.
How would you treat the vendorthat has at work, that has
failed you like seven times in arow?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right Like how would you interact with that person or
whatever?
How would you interact withyour daughter when she broke the
thing?
How would you, you know, whenyour wife had a rough day at
work and she's yelling at youkind of thing right Like or, or
whatever right Just you're in a,in a place that most people
just I'm done, I'm out of thisRight.
(18:34):
How would you treat that personif you were letting God's love
dictate how you engaged?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
a lot different way, different than than when I use
my own ink, when I use my my ownink to try to try to, uh um,
interact with that vendor.
Because it that it brings up agreat point, because when God
(19:04):
disciplines, it's just.
There's nothing that God does.
That's unjust.
We unjustly discipline all thetime, I think, because we act
out of that sinful nature andagain go back to the people that
shape our lives.
I spank my kids because I wasspanked as a child and I believe
(19:26):
it works, but my cousin, theydon't spank their kids because
they weren't spanked and theydon't believe.
My kids are well behaved andhers aren't.
You know, so it's that.
Do I think my, my discipline isjust yeah?
(19:47):
Does she think her disciplineis just?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Is either one of them , just I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
But when God disciplines, it is.
Yeah so if we could disciplinelike God, then everything we do
would be just right.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So that's that's what I think of is like when you
said, if we went to everyinteraction with anybody that we
have, every interaction withanybody that we have, if we went
to it with the God ink and usedthe God ink, then it would be
just.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, and that's really something interesting too
, because God's discipline isjust because he is just, yeah,
Like it's not a quality of Him,it is who he is right.
He is yeah, he is just yeah,Like it's not a quality of him,
it is who he is right, he is,yeah, he is just so when he in
the Old Testament says, israel,I need you to go and just, I
(20:38):
need you to kill every man,woman and child in here, right,
that is justice, that is hisjustice, it is his love, his
mercy, right?
So everything that we are like,you're talking about spanking
your kids for discipline, evenif it's as rightly motivated as
(21:01):
you could somehow be, becauseyou are not just and you're not
God, it is only a shadow of hisjustice, so it's never truly
just.
Yeah.
And so then that starts playingmind games with you, because
God, equally, will let you justgo and do whatever you wanna do,
yep, and he's gonna love you nomatter what.
Okay, so we, equally, we havethat kind of calling as parents
(21:21):
no matter what you do, I'm gonnalove you, no matter what.
But again, we're supposed to beemulators of God, right?
So God laid down the law he saidhere are the rules, here are
the guidelines.
If you live within this, youget life right To the fullest.
If you go outside of it, whichyou're free to do, it leads to
(21:44):
death, yeah Right.
And so you can't just be kindof parent that says, well, go
you, do you, yeah, when.
And I'll love you, no matterwhat, I'll be your friend.
Like you can't do that, youstill have to have boundaries,
yeah, like and.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And that's when, when I give my kids boundaries and I
think I mean three of my kidsare old enough to to start
understanding why thoseboundaries are there because I
love them.
I want them to understand thatthose boundaries are to keep
them safe and to help them growinto productive members of
(22:18):
society, and then they can teachtheir kids.
They can take what again takethe ink that mom and I give them
, or they can mix it with theirown ink, or whatever they want
to do with it.
But it is to it's to shape themand to form them into good
human beings, right?
well, we it's good at humanbeings as best we can be as best
(22:39):
we can be, and so but myeight-year-old she, she doesn't
care you know, she's like I'm,I'm not, I'm not worried about
being a productive member ofsociety.
I don't like it when you spankme you know, I don't.
I don't care why you do it, Idon't like it.
Or I don't like why you take my, my, uh um gaming system away.
(23:03):
I don't like why you take mytoys away or why you put me in
it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I don't like it.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And again, that's her at her age.
Whether she's receiving the inkor not, she's still she's.
She's being affected, whethershe takes it or not.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I mean honestly, at this age she kind of has to
take it because she don't have achoice.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
She's eight.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
She's eight years old .
So, she doesn't really have achoice.
My oldest do I still disciplinemy oldest.
She's 20 and she's in college.
But yeah, I still disciplineher, I still give her guidance.
I guess it's more in a guidancethan it is a discipline.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, well and appropriately, as you grow, it
changes, it changes.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I don't discipline my 20-year-old like I discipline
my 8-year-old.
Yeah, and I don't haveconversations with my
20-year-old like I have with my8-year-old.
It's completely different andthat's you know.
Going back to what we weretalking about earlier when we
were at work is and it justclicked in my head when I was
(24:06):
saying this is we give differentink at different times in our
kids' lives.
Oh yeah, and that's part of yoursong too.
Yeah, that's part of the songis because the song is when she
was a baby, when she was youknow.
Little girl, little girl into ateenager and going on and
moving off, and so we usedifferent ink at different times
(24:27):
.
It's still our ink, but it'sit's used differently.
Maybe, we have different coloredinks in.
You know, like when we're youknow we're sitting in a in the
conference room here and I seethat that dry erase board around
you.
Well, we use different colorsto to dictate different things
that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So maybe there's different ink that we use when
we when we're we're in differentstages of our kids' lives.
The cool thing about God is Godis just ink, right, he's just,
he's just God ink.
You know there's no, at leastwhen I think about it.
There's no different coloredGod inks.
(25:08):
You know, he's just God ink, heis.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And it's so cool because he can be just God ink
and still be exactly what weneed at every stage of our lives
, whether we know it or not, andwhether we understand it or not
, because our understandingdoesn't dictate who god is
correct.
God is god, and whether weunderstand the human side of him
(25:37):
or understand the god side ofhim, yeah, he's still god.
And so when you're talkingabout how, if we go to the
relationships and theinteractions that we have in our
lives and we go with it in aGod view or with a God ink, and
how is it different when we useours and when we use God, how do
(26:00):
we know if we're using God'sink or not?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
if we don't understand, yeah, or you don't
know God, or you don't know God.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's interesting, don't understand, yeah, or you
don't know God.
Or you don't know God, right,yeah, that's interesting.
That's interesting, yeah,because how do you?
How do you approach thehomeless person on the street
who's asking for money, who itonly takes you about you know
half a nanosecond to know howthey're going to spend that
money?
Yeah, how do you approach that?
If you're God?
(26:28):
Yeah, if you were Jesus, how doyou?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
approach that?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And if you're Chris, how do you approach that?
And if you're Chris who had abad day at work, how do you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
approach that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
If you're Chris who's tight on money, how do you
approach that?
But one of those things neverchanges is how Jesus approaches
it.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Absolutely, he's going to approach it the Jesus
way.
Every time, a million out of amillion times, he's going to be
Jesus and even when he was fullyhuman, he was still approaching
it how Jesus approached it.
No matter what you think, jesushad bad days.
(27:04):
Absolutely, jesus had bad days,but he still approached the
situation as Jesus.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
You think Jesus got angry?
Yeah, go ask the people in thetemple.
They'll tell you.
Tables were chunked and tableswere full.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, he threw together a whip real fast.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, he got angry, but he was still and let's go
back to the just.
It was still just.
He had every right to go inthere.
Whether it's we believe it ornot, he had every right to go in
there.
Whether, it's, you know, webelieve it or not, he had every
right to go in there and do whathe did.
And what he did was was justnow.
If we go in there and startflipping tables and start
(27:40):
whipping people and, you know,going nuts, is that just?
yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah don'tknow, but I know% that it was
just when Jesus did it, right,yeah.
And so again, whether weunderstand who God is or know
God, or want to know God, we mayknow God, but whether we want
(28:01):
to accept him, whether we wantto believe that he is or it
doesn't matter, the situation itdoesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
He is who he is and that never changes yeah you know
that ink never changes and italways is right yeah, yeah, the
the in the first part of thecatechism of the cath Church,
which is a book which is aseries of teachings and just
(28:35):
kind of deeper teaching on allthe things about the faith,
right, so like who is Jesus?
And it's chapters on just thatkind of thing.
What's the Bible Chapters onjust that?
What are angels, you knowchapters on just that kind of
thing?
What's the Bible chapters onjust that?
What are angels chapters onjust that?
So it's just like deep teaching, right?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
When it's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
If you read it, you realize how shallow it still is
Like it's so much more there,but anyway, one of the things it
talks about is how man is madefor relationship with God right
for relationship with God right.
And we have this innate desire,this longing to know him and
understand him and search forhim, which is why the thing that
is uncommon in the wholehistory of humanity is like
(29:18):
atheism, and everybody's gotsome kind of gods or God or
something somewhere, right.
So we have this understandingthat God is there and we're
searching, and so the wholefirst part.
It's really beautiful becauseit's this back and forth.
We've got some good episodes onit if you ever want to go check
them out, but it's this backand forth from God to humanity,
(29:42):
humanity to God, god to humanity.
How does he respond, how do werespond?
And how it turns into arelationship.
Anyway, something you had justsaid about just how we approach
things triggered that in mybrain and now, just trying to
recall all that about thecatechism, I totally lost where
I was going with it, but I don'tknow, it was really interesting
.
Maybe it was the thing whereyou're saying, like, whether we
(30:03):
want to believe or not.
Whether we choose.
Oh, there's no God out there.
Maybe there's a God where thefact that he is, that he exists,
whether we want to believe ornot, is coloring our ink.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It affects reality 100%, it's part of it, and
there's no escaping it right.
You can try all you want to,but at some point you are going
to understand who God is.
Yeah, at some point.
Yep, and it's because he isaffecting you with his ink.
Yeah, whether you.
But that's the beauty of God,right?
(30:36):
The beauty of God is I have it.
You can have it too.
Yeah, if you want it.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's something else.
Speaking of wanting it, therewas something else that we
talked about, and this would bea cool thing to kind of just
kind of continue this going is.
This made me think.
In our last conversation wewere talking I don't remember
how we got to it, but we weretalking about pain and the
avoidance of pain and all thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I don't know how we got there.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
But we were talking about it and I remember that I
said it's like once you trulyexperience pain.
You're like I don't want noneof that, right?
And it's funny I was thinkingabout it later because I have
morning prayer time, right.
So I'm sitting there and I'mlike what cowardice man, come on
, you're afraid of some pain, ofall the things you've been
through in life, you're afraid.
(31:30):
You're afraid of that.
Well, okay, there's nothingwrong with being afraid.
Yeah, you're going to let itaffect you, that's yeah.
That's cowardice, right, yeah,and you don't have to be like
Superman brave, you just got tobe like that, much more brave
than what you're afraid of.
Exactly, exactly, right.
And so that kind of made mestart thinking, being that I
used to coach, was and I guesswe were talking about boxing and
(31:51):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're talking about Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah.
And so I was like I wasthinking about the strategies
between, the difference betweenhaving a strategy when you're
playing a game of, you'replaying to win or you're playing
not to lose yeah, verydifferent.
And, as far as I'm concerned,playing not to lose, you're
playing not to lose.
Yeah, very different.
And as far as I'm concerned,playing not to lose, you're
going to lose, you're going tolose.
But if you're playing to win,you got a shot, you at least
(32:17):
have a shot to win.
Yeah, and so that seems to me tobe something that then affects
you personally, which, as we'resaying, affects the people
around you.
So what would it be like if youparented not to lose versus
(32:42):
parenting to win?
Man?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I love your questions because they, they, uh, and
this is, this is one of thosethat you told me you were going
to ask, but you didn't tell mewhat you were going to ask, you
said I've got some questions tothrow at you so what a good one
to start out with.
I think um, I'll start withthis that sometimes I have
parented not to lose.
(33:07):
Oh yeah, and I've been thinkingabout it.
I'm like crap.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I sometimes I have parented not to lose.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Oh yeah, I've been thinking about it, I'm like crap
, I think I do that all the time, all the time, and I think I
probably parent more not to losethan I do to win.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Which goes back to the fear of loss that we were
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And it connects directly to the fear of loss,
because a lot of the times I,you know, when I talk to my kids
, I I used to when I wereyounger and when I was on fire
for God, I used to bring Godinto every conversation.
I think we need to do that.
I think we need to and I'm notsaying use God as like the if
(33:49):
you don't do this, god's notgoing to love you.
If you don't do this.
This is not you know.
Don't just throw it in theirface.
God doesn't like this.
God doesn't like this.
God doesn't like this.
I don't think it's like that.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I think I remember you telling me once too is like
somebody said something whereit's like they're just waiting
for you to bring up God in everyconversation.
They're like, okay, when's itgoing to happen?
My kids used to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, they're like, I'm talking to them and then
it's just got.
How does it tie back to theBible?
How does it?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
tie back to the.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Bible, and so I let that dictate to where I stopped,
and I should have never stopped, should have never stopped.
I should always, no matter howthey react to it, I should
always bring it back to God.
It should always come back toGod.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Where you may be being afraid of becoming so
Christ-like that the world wouldreject you Exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I love that quote, man, I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Because that's exactly what I feared is like
I'm becoming too much likeChrist that my own kids don't
even want to be around me.
You know which.
That's a good thing.
Yeah, you know, I'm not sayingit's a good thing that my kids
don't want to be around me, butthey're hearing Jesus and at
some point again, at some point,they're going to understand it.
It's their choice.
(35:02):
And if they don't want to, butI still have to give it to them.
Yeah, god, when he sent JesusI'm not going to say he doesn't
care if we accept Jesus or notbut he knew that people were not
going to accept Jesus.
Yep, he knew that people weregoing to hate him and cuss him
out and spit on him, and he knewthat.
(35:23):
But he did it anyway.
Yeah, and he always made itabout Jesus.
And then, when Jesus was here,who did?
He always make it about God?
Everything he did, everyteaching, every miracle, every
healing, everything he did, hedid it for God.
In God's name, I'm doing thisand he's daddy's giving me the
(35:46):
power, right?
Yep?
And how we decide to do what wedo, god did it knowing that
half the time we're going toparent to not lose instead of
parent to not win.
He knew that, but he knewenough that he's going to give
(36:09):
us Jesus to fall back on andtake all that because we're
goofy jacked up humans, rightyeah.
So he stuck his we held his sonto a cross, killed him, watched
him come back to life so thatall those stupid decisions he
(36:33):
can take and put on that cross.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And so, getting back to the original question, what
would it, what would it?
I think you said what would itlook like?
Yeah, a parent, not to loseyeah, I think we would have some
pretty awesome kids.
I think we would have somepretty awesome courageous,
god-fearing, god-loving kids.
Um, I know the world wouldwould have the I'm and I'm
(36:58):
talking not just us as fathersourselves, I'm talking about the
world you know who didn'tparent to lose.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
God he played to win and he's still playing to win.
Right and guess what he alreadywon, but he's still playing to
win yeah, and that kind of goesback to if we approach
everything with the ink in ourpens, if we're writing our
stories in a godly way, in aholy way, in a holy way, if we
(37:27):
stop being afraid of being soclose to Christ that we lose the
world.
Yeah, that's.
Don't be afraid, we're notplaying afraid to lose.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Exactly Right we're playing so that the people of
the world see Jesus through us,because that's victory.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Jesus is victory.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
He never once played to not lose.
Yeah, he played to win everysingle time, yeah, and so, yeah,
I think we would have a lot.
You know, and I, I see in.
You know, social media isrampant and and man, more often
than not you see nothing butnegative, negative, negative,
(38:11):
negative, negative yeah but Iwas reading an article, and
again, we talk about this allthe time.
You remember one snippet.
It's a two-page article and youremember one section, one line,
yeah.
But I can't remember.
It was like Gen X or Gen Z, Idon't remember what it was, but
it was one of the youngergenerations and the article was
(38:33):
talking about how thatgeneration of young men in the
past however many generations ofyoung men it's been is one of
the strongest groups ofChristian young men that there's
been in so long.
Yeah, and one of the reasonswhy is because the world is
(38:55):
trying to take masculinity outof it so bad that these young
men are saying I just want to bemen.
Yeah, I just want to be a man.
Look, it gives me chills.
I just want to be a man and theworld is trying to tear that
away from us so bad.
It's so bad to be a man,because when you're a man, it's
toxic.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, toxic masculinity.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, throw out all those flash words or whatever
you want to call them, but it'sgood to be a man.
And these young men are seeingthat and they're like I'm tired
of the world telling me thatit's wrong to be a man.
Yep, you know.
And so when I read that article, I was like that is a good
(39:39):
thing, you know.
Yeah, but we go back.
It's exactly what we weretalking about.
Those young men are playing towin, they're not playing not to
lose.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
They're standing up to a world that is hey, I'm a
strong Christian young man and Iwant to grow into a strong
Christian man and I want to leadmy kids, whether that be my son
or my daughter, to be a strongChristian individual.
Yeah, so that tide is turning.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, and the church around any Christian community.
They can't approachChristianity.
Not to lose?
Yeah, they can't.
They have to be courageous.
You.
Not to lose?
Yeah, they can't, they have tobe courageous, you have to be.
That is, I really think, beingChristian, being a disciple of
Jesus Christ and following himto your death is the most
(40:29):
courageous and excitingadventure you could ever go on
in your whole life.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
How can it not be?
Yeah, how can it not be?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
You just gotta take a step.
Yeah, you gotta take a step.
You can't just sit there and donothing.
We were talking about that once, the other day too, whenever
that was.
But you gotta just take a stepand just let god guide you, just
keep taking a step.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And again, I know people have heard it a million
times and and from differentindividuals, but I heard it
first from my papa.
He was like every journey,whether it's a thousand miles or
one step, starts with one step.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And I know it's cliche and all that stuff, but
it's the truth.
Yeah, jesus' journey startedwith a step.
Jesus' journey to the crossstarted with one step.
Our journey with Jesus startedwith something.
You know, we weren't justsitting there.
I mean, maybe somebody, I don'tknow, but I just know my story.
(41:23):
I'm not just sitting there and,oh my gosh, I love Jesus.
Yeah, you know, it didn'thappen like that.
Yeah, I went through a lot ofstruggle and we talked about
this a little bit on the podcastWent through a lot of struggle
without Jesus and then I wentthrough a lot of struggle with
jesus, and a struggle with jesusis a whole lot better than a
(41:44):
struggle without him.
Yes, you know, always better,it's, always better it's still
struggle yeah but it's you knowagain, I was looking this little
reel that was on Facebook andit's like the group that does
them is called Happy Life, right, and it was talking about how
(42:08):
we dictate, how we let the worlddictate us.
And when they said that I waslike to me it was kind of an
oxymoron, because if we dictatehow the world, how we let the
world dictate us and this is mebeing analytical and going in
trying to find you know, butit's simple.
(42:29):
I'm just trying to make it moredifficult than it has to be
right.
Because if I'm letting themdictate me, then they're really
dictating me and I'm not reallydictating all that good stuff.
Right, yeah, but the concept ofit is is we choose how the
world affects us.
Yeah, we choose.
We can either let it make usmad, sad, happy, whatever, but
(42:51):
we choose that that person hurtme.
You chose to allow that personto hurt you.
Now they could do somethingthat hurts you and you didn't
choose for them to do that yeahand yes, it's gonna hurt, but
you choose how you continue yourlife after that person hurt you
.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, not that person right, yeah, you're never the
the only.
It's kind of like a captivebeing being held captive
mentality right like I can'tescape this thing, absolutely
you're the only one who'sholding yourself there yeah
right, and of course that'sreally easy for us, but I've
been in moments like that myselfwhere it's like I, I can't get
(43:31):
past it.
Yes, you can, yeah, you can you, just it's hard, it's hard but
we, we don't.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
We choose to play, not to lose.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, right, that's the fear.
Well, because what happens if Imove past this Exactly?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
What is it like on the other side?
Well, I'm too afraid to seewhat it's like on the other side
.
Yeah, you know and we go back to, you know, life, reputation and
desire.
You know what is the worldgoing gonna see me if I get past
this.
Yeah, you know what is theworld gonna look at me if I
don't get past this.
So, no matter what choice we'remaking, we're making it out of
fear of losing something.
(44:05):
Yeah, you know, and, and Ithink so many of us get caught
up in the easiness of notfighting to win.
It's easy to sit on thesidelines it's easy to just sit
in there and be all whoa me andyou know, oh, you hurt me.
So it's easy to blame thatother person because you don't
want to blame yourself, right,yeah, so well, and what happens?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
what would happen if you approach the person who hurt
you?
You approach them the way jesusapproaches us when we hurt him.
Yeah, man?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That is a question that I think we should ask
ourselves every single day,because when I was in one of the
lowest moments of my life andmy good friend Andy called me
and saved me from a very, verybad situation that I was in,
that's one of the things he toldme.
Bad situation that I was in.
That's one of the things hetold me and it's one of the
(45:04):
things that I think about a lot,because he said in that moment
he said you have to think abouthow minuscule it is how bad we
hurt each other on comparison tohow bad we hurt God on a daily
basis.
And when he said that it justman, it was so like gut
(45:27):
wrenching and it's probably thelast thing that I wanted to hear
, because it was the truth.
And it hit so hard because theperson that I love the most on
the planet hurt me the most atthat time and it led me to be
where I was at and again, we maybe going into that on another
podcast, I don't know yeah butit's not the time to go into
(45:49):
that right now.
I'm just using that situationbecause that was a moment when
it was.
You have to start playing towin right now, because you have
children that need you.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And this is nothing compared to how bad that you
hurt God on a daily basis, yeah,but he still loves you and
still cares about you and stillis there whenever you need him.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
He's not giving up.
He's still playing to win.
He's still forcing that ink I'mnot going to say force, he's
still providing that ink.
He's always there, he's notforcing it, but he's always
there, that pen is always fulland you can always go fill your
pen with the ink no matter what,and so it's.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, like the person who hurts, you, turn around and
forgive them the way Jesusforgives.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah and that's what I was Like.
It's hard for us to think abouthow bad they hurt us and
wanting to forgive them for it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Imagine somebody hurts your son.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Oh yeah, Somebody hurts your wife, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Somebody hurts your daughter.
Imagine loving the person whodid that so much and forgiving
them.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And great point, because Jesus died for the
person that hurt me, or my son,or my daughters, or my wife.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That's who he died for.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
He died for that person?
Yeah, just as much as he diedfor me.
You know I had a conversationwith my dad man.
It was a while back Cause Ihaven't talked to my dad in a
long time, but my dad strugglesabout you know, I've done so
much bad in my life.
I'm never going to heaven and Iwas like God.
You know that there's there'smurderers in heaven.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
There's rapists in heaven.
You got to hope man, you got to, just there's there's got to be
there's name, anything that'sgone wrong in the world, that's
bad, and there's somebody that'sdone it, that's in heaven.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
You, you know, and it's hard to understand that,
but that's again I don'tunderstand that love, because
there's people that I wanted atsome point in my life to die,
and jesus doesn't want us to dieyeah, yeah, and that's kind of
thinking, thinking about againhow we color each other's lives,
(48:23):
how we influence each other'slives, how we play to win not to
lose, how the struggle inunderstanding Jesus's divinity
right.
It's easy for us to understandthe human side of Jesus, but to
(48:44):
understand what he did.
Yes, he did as fully man, rightTo show us.
This is what humanity issupposed to be, this is how it
was intended.
This is the perfection ofhumanity, but also fully as God,
because that's Like the thingthat you can't be, but you are
(49:06):
made in his image.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
This is what you are called to be.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
This is what it means to be a son of God.
What?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
How do we grasp that Like?
How do we?
How do we grasp that Like?
How do we?
How do we?
We understand the, the, thehuman ink that God provides when
?
How do we get to the point towhere, and and again, it might
not be for us to understand, tounderstand that, to understand
(49:39):
the God side of God, or are wejust meant to understand that
the God side of God is the Godside of God and that's it?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think there's somethingFather Stephen always talks
about too is existing in thetension between two points.
Right so, god is man, god isGod, or sorry, jesus is man,
jesus is God, and we can'tcomprehend that God is human and
we can't comprehend that humanis God.
Right so, to somehow exist inthat tension and the goal, the
(50:15):
teaching and I hope I'm learningthis right from him is the best
place, one of the best placesfor us to exist in that tension
is in our prayer right, so likewe went to adoration once upon a
time right, and so just to sitthere in front of the Eucharist
and say, like, what does thismean?
(50:38):
Right and just to bask in thebeauty of this thing that your
brain is just aching to try andcomprehend or to exist in that
tension, to live out thattension by conforming our lives
to Jesus.
So when you see that thehomeless person who's you know
(50:58):
obviously not going to spendthis money on food kind of thing
and you had the worst day atwork and you know wife yelled at
you and your dog ran away andall that kind of stuff and to to
, in that moment to have thatawareness to go, I'm going to
make myself approach this personlike Jesus instead.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, you just wrote a country song.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think.
So my dog ran away, but no,yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
I'm going to choose to approach this person how god
would approach this person.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, I'm gonna enter into that tension of the
mystery that I can't comprehend,that the god jesus is god, he's
, he's, pure divinity and youknow there's, there's let's just
put a.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
And again, we've talked multiple times on here
that man I'm horrible withscripture memory.
I can tell you that I've readit in there or heard it in there
before, but I can't tell youwhere it is.
But there's a, a part in therethat I remember, where he's
talking and Jesus says you willbe able to do greater things
than I.
I don't comprehend doinggreater things than Jesus, but
(52:09):
he's saying with me you can dothat, like, if you allow me to
be in you and work through you,be in you and and and work
through you, you can do thesethings.
And can I comprehend that?
No, but can I listen to it?
Yeah.
Can I believe it?
Yeah.
Can I play to win and not losethrough it?
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
So why not do that Right?
Why not just understand thatGod is who he says he is, jesus
is who he says he is, and theycan do what they say they can do
.
And again, when I'm saying this, I'm talking to myself.
I might as well be, you know,looking in a mirror talking to
myself.
We just happen to be talking toyour, your listeners, and I
(52:56):
think some of them probablythink the same thing.
You know, they're, they'reprobably, you know, kind of
wrestling with the same thing.
Jesus tells me that I can dogreater things than him.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, you know, what's funny is um, today's uh
mass readings happen to be and Ijust clicked the dang button on
my phone Okay, the Solemnity ofthe Ascension of the Lord, and
I have a feeling that it's inthe gospel reading from today.
So I'm trying to look it upreal fast because that would
(53:37):
just be kind of kind ofcoincidental, uh, or a god
cadence I was gonna say that'snot coincidental, that's a god
cadential.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
However, you want to put that because you're about to
blow my mind if it's in thereyeah um, that would be wild if
if it's in there, because I Ijust, I just thought of it you
can do greater things than I.
Okay, jesus, if you say so,yeah, no, I don't think it is.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
It might be in a different version, because the
gospel readings from Mark, butthe gospel reading from today
was where, right before heascends to heaven, he says
whoever believes and is baptizedwill be saved.
These signs will accompanythose who believe right.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
That's why I was like oh, is this the same part?
Is it there?
Is it there?
But?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
I don't think it is.
I don't think it is, so itmight be a different version of
this recounting, anyway.
Anyway, man, this is good, thishas been good and hopefully
it's been good for everyone elseto think about or to listen to
and contemplate.
How are they filling the inkwells of all the people who, you
(54:52):
know, we play a part in theirlives and we influence them?
And as they write their stories, are we letting God influence
us so we can influence thosearound us?
It's good stuff.
It's beautiful, man.
It's beautiful.
Did you find it?
I found it.
Which one?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
is it?
It's John 14, 12 through 28.
Very truly, I tell you, whoeverbelieves in me will do the
works I have been doing, andthey will do even greater things
than these, because I am goingto the Father and I will do
whatever you ask in my name sothat the Father may be glorified
(55:24):
in the Son.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Amen, yeah, all right , that's cool.
We're going to end it with thatbecause it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
What an awesome way to end it, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
All right, everybody.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you, we will see you nexttime.
Bye, bye.
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