September 28, 2023 • 62 mins
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Our guest for this episode, Ali Malik, offers a candid perspective on his journey immigrating from Pakistan to Canada. In a gripping conversation, Ali shares the cultural and professional hurdles he encountered and the invaluable lessons he learned along the way.
Navigating a new country can be challenging, but Ali’s experiences provide a fresh perspective on life as an immigrant. He lays out the realities of starting anew, the importance of networking, and stresses the need for a financial cushion before moving countries. We also delve into the unique workplace culture of Canada and how understanding cultural nuances can make a world of difference. Our chat wouldn't be complete without acknowledging the pivotal role Ali's wife played in their journey, her unwavering support serving as a constant source of motivation.
As we wrap up, we venture into a compelling discussion about cultural acceptance and the immigrant experience in Canada and the US. Ali highlights how these countries allow immigrants to preserve their unique culture, language, and lifestyle. Ali proudly shares his journey to becoming a Canadian citizen and leaves us with some sage advice for his younger self.
Discover the inspiring story of Ali Malik and the realities of immigrant life in this fascinating episode.
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To contact Ali:
- Ali's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alimalik111?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_profile_view_base_contact_details%3Bozu%2BqFoURxmPFtG38kjnxg%3D%3D
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gurasis (00:00):
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're listening to My
Thick Accent podcast.
In the vibrant andever-expanding world of
(00:20):
podcasting, as I reached theone-year milestone with My Thick
Accent, a truly enchantingfacet of this podcast is its
remarkable capacity to bringtogether captivating individuals
who hail from the farthestreaches of our planet.
This medium possesses a uniquepower, I believe, and almost
magical ability to dissolve thevery borders that separate
(00:44):
nations, enabling connections,dialogues and exchanges that
might otherwise have beenconsiderably more challenging
within the confines of our ownhomelands.
I consider this anextraordinary conduit, one that
transcends geographical,cultural and temporal boundaries
.
It functions as a virtualbridge, deftly spanning chasms
(01:08):
and creating a space wherediscussions can flow freely,
unburdened by the constraints ofphysical distance or political
divides.
This freedom to converse,explore and connect is a
testament to the profound impactof this medium, and today I
welcome an individual who isalso from the Indian
(01:28):
subcontinent, also from Punjab,but from the other side of the
border.
Originally from Pakistan, heembarked on a journey that took
him from the vibrant streets ofPakistan to the welcoming
embrace of Canada, an individualwhose experiences resonate with
countless immigrants strivingfor a better life.
Our conversation will navigatethe intricacies of immigration
(01:51):
landscape, shedding light on thechallenges faced, the wisdom
acquired and the relentlessspirit that fuels the
immigrant's journey.
We'll delve into the nuances ofcultural adaptation,
contrasting work environmentsbetween our homeland and Canada
and the vital significance ofsetting realistic expectations
on foreign shores.
(02:12):
Without any further ado, pleasewelcome Ali Malik.
Ali (02:18):
Hi Gurasis, how are you?
Gurasis (02:20):
I'm great.
Welcome to the podcast.
Ali (02:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a great platform thatyou've built over the past one
year.
I've listened to a lot of yourpodcasts and learned a lot, and
it's interesting how a lot ofthe stories resonated with me,
because our experiences asimmigrants are very, very
(02:43):
similar in many ways, and thereis a lot that I've learned from
some of the guests on thispodcast.
So thank you so much forcreating this platform for all
of us.
Gurasis (02:53):
No, I think thank you for listening in, tuning in and
reaching out as well.
It's always pleasure hearingthat okay somebody is listening
to it.
You do see those numbers buthaving a face to that number, a
voice to that number, isabsolutely amazing.
So, thank you.
Thank you so much for that.
So, Ali, let me start by askingyou tell me, do you have any
(03:16):
favorite inspirational quote orsaying that resonates with you?
Ali (03:21):
So the famous quote be the change you want to see in the
world.
I feel that that quote inspiresme and it has inspired a lot of
people around the world to takeinitiative and take the lead in
a lot of things in their lives.
Gurasis (03:37):
Okay, and is there any habit that has changed your life
or something that has becomeyour second nature?
Ali (03:43):
Yeah, I think having a structured routine in life is
very, very important.
Unfortunately, back in Asiancountries we sleep late and we
are in the rush every morning.
That is a problem that I'veseen across many different
countries.
That is something that Ichanged here, because sleeping
(04:06):
on time, waking up early,getting to work early, that is
something that I've seen.
People are very disciplined inNorth America and people take
this very, very CNC stuff.
I think that habit has helpedme become more efficient in my
life.
Gurasis (04:22):
I'm sure it also happens in terms of having the
food.
For example, I think in myhouse, even till date, my
parents have food at like 9, 10pm, but here, I think by 9, 10,
I'm literally on my bedsometimes.
Is that the same with you?
Ali (04:38):
Exactly.
I had never imagined I couldhave dinner at 6 pm and now I'm
the one who's encouraging myfamily to have dinner at 6, 6,
30.
So it definitely changes youand your whole approach towards
the daily routine.
Gurasis (04:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaking of families andspeaking of the time you spent
in Pakistan, let me take youback there.
Tell us I will listen a littlebit about the time you spent
there.
Tell us about the city you arefrom and what the focus was on
growing up.
Ali (05:08):
Yeah, so I grew up in a very smart town called Nushaira,
near Peshawar, so I learned thelanguage there.
It's a great culture, verydifferent from Punjab, where my
father's family actually belongs.
For him, and emphasis, justlike any other basic family, was
education, being good with yourgrades and making sure that
(05:33):
you're successful in your career.
Those things are very important.
I unfortunately lost my dadwhen I was seven, so I was a
single child.
I grew up with my mom, so mymom was a doctor, very
disciplined, workaholic woman,and she wanted me to become a
doctor as well.
(05:53):
Unfortunately, I wasn't inclinedtowards a medical profession,
so the second acceptableprofession my family was
engineering, so went for abachelor's in engineering, but I
was working for a digitalmarketing agency after that and
I realized that I had had aninterest in marketing and I was
(06:15):
lucky enough to be accepted atPakistan's number one business
school, which is not in Bihar.
So I joined that program andafter that I was working as a
brand manager for beer, which isa German giant.
It's a company inpharmaceutical, consumer health
(06:37):
and agriculture chemicals.
So I was working in theagriculture services and
agriculture chemicals divisionin Lahore.
They very different from mycurrent work but would be
exciting work.
I got to work with farmers andsmall landholders throughout
(06:59):
Punjab in Pakistan and I wastaken aback by some of the
challenges that farmers facethese days due to global warming
and water scarcity and extremeweather during my time there, so
it was a great learning.
And also we had a great team ofindividuals in our organization
(07:23):
.
Learned a lot from them, bothtechnical the agri agronomist
and the agri technicians andalso the management team in the
head office, so it was an allaround very, very nice
experience.
Gurasis (07:38):
But how did you transition from engineering to
digital marketing?
Or did you have any discussionafter that with your mother, who
told you that what are yourdoing, or something?
Ali (07:49):
Yeah, I think career is something that is scrutinized by
parents, and we talk a lotabout what job you want to do
and what career you want to bein.
It's something that's discussedby the entire family, by
parents, by cousins, everyone.
But I feel like, at the end ofthe day, what matters is what
(08:11):
you want to do, and after a time, I'd become independent and I
was like Mom, I'm not listeningto you, I'm doing my own thing.
So it was that stage.
Gurasis (08:26):
So tell us, ali, something about Pakistan that
people might not know about, andI remember, before the call,
you were telling me about thediverse culture in Pakistan,
where we do hear a lot about theIndian diversity, but tell us a
little bit about Pakistan.
Ali (08:41):
Yeah, great question.
So I grew up near Peshawar inthe KP province.
Kp is generally considered tobe very small, a backward sort
of a place, which is the case ifyou look at the macroscopic
picture, but I feel like thereare plenty of opportunities in
(09:03):
terms of business opportunities,in terms of looking at the
amazing people that that placehas and the very rich culture
that Pukhtul people have.
So I've lived among them forover two decades and I can say
that they have a great culturewhich has a long history like,
(09:27):
just like the culture in Punjabor anywhere else in Pakistan.
It's a very rich culture whichis misunderstood by a lot of
people and I feel like the food,the hospitality, the way they
come together and wheneversomeone needs them, that is very
, very unique to the Pukhtulculture.
So I really love that andpicked up a lot of my life long
(09:48):
learnings from that culture.
Gurasis (09:51):
Okay, and is it true that, like the Bollywood, the
Hindi cinema is very prominent?
Was that a part of your growingup here?
Ali (10:00):
Oh yeah, definitely yeah.
So I mean movies like DilChahta Hai or even like cheesy
ones, like Kuch Huta Hai, thoseones, those ones were very
popular when I was growing up.
So yeah, all these Bollywoodstars are still very popular in
(10:22):
Pakistan and we all love Indianmusic and I mean every Pakistani
wedding that I've been to, wedanced on Bollywood songs.
So yeah, it's part of theculture.
We made it our own in many ways.
Gurasis (10:43):
And is there a time that you'd like to go back and
live again from your childhood,or just the growing up years.
Ali (10:50):
Yeah, I feel like.
So I feel like things havechanged a lot in the overall
culture and the pressure that weused to feel as a generation
growing up in terms of the focuson the grades and the focus on
(11:11):
competition at school.
I think that I wish that wasnot there and there was more
focus on having fun and makingfriendships making like lasting,
deep friendships at school.
So I would change that if Iwere to go back in time, because
(11:34):
I feel like there was a lot ofpressure in our time on our
generation to study, study,study, get good grades Okay.
Gurasis (11:42):
And is there something that from your culture or
tradition that some people stillpreserve up until today, when
you were in Canada?
Ali (11:50):
Yeah, I think one of the major things that I love about
our culture is respect forelders, making sure you are
always respectful of theiropinions, of the fact that you,
like I've seen this in my familyIf you're sitting, if you see
an elder, a person, walking tothe room, you stand up, you give
(12:13):
them their seat.
That is something that I'veseen throughout my family,
everywhere, and those are littlethings that mean a lot to
elders.
So I feel like that issomething that I want to
continue and hope to continuelike.
Gurasis (12:28):
And what about the language?
Do you make that consciouseffort to instill the language
in your children?
Ali (12:35):
Well, in Canada it's a bit of a challenge, to be honest.
English is probably very easyfor the kids to learn here, so
they definitely are morecomfortable in English than the
local language, like ourtraditional languages.
But yeah, we do make it a pointto speak in our native language
(12:58):
with our kids and they'vepicked up most of it.
But at the end of the day,because they live in an
environment where everyonespeaks English, to them it is an
easier language.
So their choice is clear theyprefer English.
Gurasis (13:16):
So now let's just transition into your decision of
moving to Canada.
Tell us what influenced it andhow was the process for you like
?
Ali (13:26):
Yeah.
So honestly, a very emotionalsort of a decision.
One of my cousins she lives inCanada and she and our husband
we had multiple conversationswith them, me and my wife they
convinced us to apply and theywere like, why don't you just
try?
Try to see if you get through?
And we were lucky enough to getthrough in the first attempt.
(13:49):
And then we were like, okay, itlooks like a good country.
My cousin and her husband, theymoved there about three or four
years before us, so they guidedus and we were able to go
through the whole process and Iwas more like started out as,
okay, let's try to see whathappens.
(14:10):
And then eventually we werelike, okay, now we are, we got
the PR, now let's go Okay.
Gurasis (14:15):
So how long was the process for you like getting the
PR?
Ali (14:19):
In my case, this was back in 2017 when I initially applied
.
So at that time 2017, so thiswas, yeah, pre COVID, so at that
time, it wasn't very difficult.
Honestly, like my profile wasideal for immigration I don't
remember the exact number, butmy points were way above the
(14:42):
benchmark and I was easily ableto get an invitation.
In fact, I got an invitation Iwasn't able to complete, like
provide the documents during thetime I was required to do so.
I couldn't, and then I rejectedthat invitation and next month
I got the invitation again.
It was so easy at that time.
Gurasis (15:00):
And did you do any sort of like a pre arrival
preparation before coming?
Ali (15:05):
Yes, so I think most of my preparation was focused around
finances.
So making sure we had enoughmoney to bring over, making sure
we were able to find a place tolive and you know this better
than me versus, like the housingcrisis unfortunately, is pretty
bad right now in Canada.
It wasn't as bad in 2017, 2018.
(15:28):
So we were able to find when wecame here.
We found Airbnb in thebeginning and then we moved to
an apartment with a one yearlease, so it wasn't that
difficult.
But we did talk to a lot ofpeople before coming here,
making sure we understand whatthe process is, how the
contracts work, what are thebest locations.
(15:49):
When you come here, you don'thave a driver's license, you
don't have a car, so it's betterto live in a location where you
are able to access cross-reeshores and other important stuff
.
So we chose a location inMississauga, ontario, which was
very close to a Walmart, so thatwe would be able to get
(16:12):
groceries, and unfortunately,when we came, it was December,
it was winter, so it was a big,big shock for us, because it was
minus two or minus three and Icame from the hall where zero is
the ultimate goal, like, ifit's zero, people, people go
(16:32):
crazy.
They're like it's zero degreesstraight.
It was a big shock for us whenwe could see snow and minus two
degrees and something like that.
So in the beginning we spent alot of money on buying jackets
and other winter stuff.
So that in itself was a bigshock, but we had planned for
(16:57):
most of that.
So I think it's good to setaside some money for emergency
expenses as well and to planyour finances in the best way
possible before coming.
Gurasis (17:09):
So you said you landed in December, right?
Tell us about your first day,or what were your initial
thoughts and emotions.
Ali (17:15):
Honestly, I feel like when you come here for the first time
and it's your first time inNorth America the jet lag is
crazy.
I mean, making sense of what'sgoing on is impossible.
So it took us at least I think,three days to get over the jet
lag.
(17:35):
And it sounds crazy now becausenow I travel, I come back and
it's not as bad.
I don't know, maybe my mind ormy body has adjusted now to
going across the ocean, but Ifeel like the first time was
impossible.
It was so difficult to adjustto the new time zone, the new
(17:57):
timings and the weather.
So me and my wife we weren'tsure if we'll have like warm
clothes Went to a mall.
We bought plenty of warmclothes for the kids.
So I have two kids now there.
Now my daughter is nine, my sonis six.
At that time my son was one anda half years old, my daughter
(18:20):
was four.
The first few days were verychallenging, but the good thing
is that if you have family inCanada, they're able to help you
.
There is no language barrier.
I've heard stories of peoplemoving to other countries like
Germany or France, where thereis a huge language barrier.
You can't interact with peopleand public transportation is
(18:42):
also, like, difficult to accessbecause of the whole language
barrier.
It's very similar in Turkey aswell.
The good thing is that a lot oftimes, you have family or
friends in Canada.
If you don't have, try tonetwork with people before
coming so that you have someonewho can help you with some of
the basic things, because theamazing thing about North
America is that once you get thehang of it, things are very
(19:04):
straightforward, very structured.
You should be able to findinformation and guidance on
things, but you should know howto look for it.
Gurasis (19:12):
And I think you also came at a time where it started
getting like dark by 5 pm.
So you also must be thinkingthat what is happening here?
The day is over just in likefew hours.
Ali (19:25):
Exactly.
Yeah, it's very challengingwith a very small day and a very
cold weather and with snow.
I mean, I had seen snow before,but not like this, because it
doesn't snow a lot, so it was abig shot.
Gurasis (19:43):
So you were talking about having that emergency
funds initially when you comehere and you were telling me
also earlier that you didn't geta job for the longest time and
your initial year was kind ofchallenging.
Tell us about the whole firstyear.
How was that like?
Ali (19:59):
Yeah, so I think the first year is always very challenging
for any immigrant.
Finding a job is like the firstchallenge that you face here.
In my case, like I mentionedbefore, I was working in the
agricultural chemical space, inmarketing.
Jobs like that are gearedtowards areas on the west side
of Canada or the Paralympics, soI wanted to live in Ontario and
(20:24):
so finding a job in thatsegment was very challenging.
There were very fewopportunities where I could find
like for like so I had totransition my career.
So I then started looking forjobs at smaller organizations.
At that time I wasn't aware ofhow to build a resume for the
(20:44):
Canadian market, how to preparefor interviews, so I was lucky
enough to find someone throughmy network, someone who owned
small agency like a digitalmarketing agency, where I
started working as a contractualemployee in the beginning.
So I had to go back to thedrawing board essentially to
(21:06):
learn about this market,customers, the preferences, and
when you work for an agencyyou're able to work with
different clients and you'reable to work with in different
segments.
So that helped me understandthe market a lot better.
And then I joined a programwhich was like a bridging
(21:27):
program for new immigrantsthrough access employment, where
I was part of a group of Ithink 18 or 20 people who were
all immigrants, were all in thesales and marketing industry and
they were looking for a job inthat industry.
That program helped meunderstand how to approach the
whole interview process, createa new resume from scratch for
(21:50):
the Canadian market, and thathelped me land a job at Canon,
which is a Japanese camera andprinter manufacturer, again in
marketing and app transitionsince then to a financial
services company called Lombardas marketing manager.
Those were the steps that Itook to understand the market
(22:10):
better and then to approach myjob that I'm looking for answers
.
Gurasis (22:14):
You mentioned about this access employment I think a
lot of my guests have alsomentioned it who have
transitioned into careers andwho have we call it the initial
start in Canada.
Do you mind like elaborate alittle bit on that for somebody
who might not know about it?
Ali (22:30):
Okay, yeah.
So access employment is agovernment funded organization
based in the GTA.
They have multiple locationsthroughout the Greater Toronto
area and they are considered theexperts in helping new
immigrants find jobs or increasetheir probability of getting
interviewed for positions intheir field.
(22:52):
So they have these bridgingprograms for different segments,
like for engineering, forsupply chain, for cloud
computing.
So I was part of the sales andmarketing bridging group.
So it was like a five weekprogram, three hours a day on,
delivered live on Zoom.
It was a collaboration withHumber College.
(23:12):
Humber College is also a veryreputable college in Canada, so
the curriculum, some part of thecurriculum, was coming from
them.
So it was a great, greatprogram.
It helped me connect with a lotof people who are in the same
boat as myself.
People from all over the world,like India, china, japan, korea
(23:33):
, sri Lanka, feel that everyoneshould sign up for similar
programs.
There are other programssimilar to this one, but this
definitely gave me the rightinformation and the right
guidance to approach my jobsearch in a more structured way.
Gurasis (23:52):
So this was about you.
Tell me, how was it like foryour children and your wife?
Like, did you guys at any pointquestion even the decision of
moving to Canada?
Ali (24:00):
Well, I did.
But my wife has been a greatmotivator.
She's never questioned thisdecision Of moving here.
She's been motivating me andthe kids.
I think.
Easy to understand.
The kids were very young, soadjusting here wasn't a big
issue for them.
But it was challenging for mebecause finding a job, settling
(24:22):
into a career, was a bigchallenge, especially given the
fact that I was in a very stablecareer back in Pakistan.
So for me it was a morepsychological thing.
Have I made the wrong decision?
Why did I quit my job?
I should have just taken aholiday, like a vacation, and
(24:43):
come here and should have done asoft landing and I should have
gone back.
I mean, all those questionscame to my mind.
But I think my motivation camefrom my wife, who supported me
throughout the process.
And not only did she just saythings to encourage me, she also
supported me by taking care ofthe kids.
The house chores allowed metime to focus on my job hunt, on
(25:08):
my job itself.
I used to sometimes go to thepublic library nearby and sit
there and apply for jobs all daylong.
Literally from 9 AM to 5 PM, myonly job was to apply for jobs.
And then what she did next wasincredible.
She actually started her ownbusiness right from our
(25:31):
apartment.
She has a background inarchitectural engineering, but
she had an interest inphotography and she started a
little photography business backin the horror as well.
But here she started from ourapartment.
I was like why are you doingthis?
We don't have any space to, wedon't have a studio space.
And she was like just watch andsee how it's done.
(25:53):
She was that confident andgradually she built a very loyal
base of customers and now she'svery well established in that
space.
So I think it's aboutsupporting each other, learning
from each other.
I think a lot of thatconfidence comes from having
trust in your relationship.
Gurasis (26:16):
So you are going to complete your five years now, I
believe in December, right?
So how long did it take you foryour first break to the first
job, or what was the moment?
Like you said, you questionedinitially right, Goodbye, did I
come here?
Things were not going your way,so when was the moment you felt
like, OK, now I think I canhave a life in Canada?
When was that moment?
Ali (26:38):
I think it's a difficult question.
There were many moments where Ifelt very, very happy, but I
feel like when I got my, when weas a family, when we got our
citizenship last year, that wasa great moment.
When we became Canadians,Because it is one of those
things which people strive forand people hope and pray for and
(27:02):
work hard for and we were ableto get that within four years.
It became very easy for usbecause we decided to stick with
it.
Like a lot of people come here,they fly back to their native
country or if they're working insome other country like, for
instance, the Middle East orSingapore, they tend to go back
and then they're never able tomake that decision to finally
(27:25):
come to Canada and get thecitizenship and settle here
forever.
But we made that decisionliterally from day one and we
decided to stick with it.
And then we're really happywith that decision because I
feel like we did not confuseourselves by thinking of going
back or regretting our decisionof coming here.
Gurasis (27:47):
And just from my knowledge, I'm just curious to
know does Pakistan also allowthe dual citizenship or it does
not?
Ali (27:53):
Yes, pakistan allows dual citizenship.
Gurasis (27:56):
Yeah, oh, wow, ok, so India does not, if you know it.
I think that's one of thereasons people don't get the
citizenship.
Ali (28:04):
Yes, I understand that India is among a lot of other
countries that do not allow.
I believe countries likeGermany also don't allow dual
citizenship.
So yeah, thankfully Pakistanallows to have a dual
citizenship of Pakistan andCanada.
Gurasis (28:18):
Ok, so Ali you have worked in Pakistan as well, like
you just shared with us earlier, and you told us that your wife
also had a business there andnow she's continuing to run her
business here in Canada as well,and you also work here in
Canada.
But I'm sure there must be alot of culture differences, even
in the working environment orhow people even exchange and
work with each other.
(28:38):
Give us a comparison of workingin Pakistan and comparing it to
the other countries, and thenyou know you can also work in
Pakistan and comparing it toworking in Canada.
Ali (28:53):
Yes, I think that's a great question.
Cultural understanding is veryimportant for anyone to function
in a society, and not theAmerican culture not just
Canadian, but not the Americanculture is very, very different
from Pakistani culture.
I think one of the major thingsthat I noticed here was
professionalism making sure thateveryone is on time, what the
(29:16):
requirements are.
Communication is always very,very important in customer
interaction and professionalinteraction.
Also, I think the awarenesslevel of the customers is very
different.
Customers here are very aware ofwhatever service or work you're
providing.
They are aware of yourcompetitors, they are aware of
(29:37):
their rights and in work culture, like when you go to work for
any organization, you would feelthat it's very different from
South Asian culture becauseyou're not supposed to always
agree with your manager.
You can challenge them, you cansay things like sorry, I don't
(30:01):
agree with you and this is thereason why I don't agree, and
you can provide that reason.
And a lot of times your managerwill say, yeah, you're right, I
was wrong, and that issomething that you don't see a
lot of times in South Asianculture.
Also, in my wife's experience,I've seen that there are a lot
(30:21):
of multicultural customers, soyou have to be aware of using
language that is appropriate,being very, very aware of
different cultures.
Gurasis (30:32):
It must be challenging also for her to be able to
really learn about the cultureor the needs of the people from
different cultures.
Ali (30:40):
Definitely so if a South Asian customer is coming in,
definitely they would prefer afamily shoot as compared to some
of the other cultures thatprefer individual shoots, and
our families are larger as well.
So you have eight people in thestudio versus four people in
(31:01):
the studio with some of theother cultures, and also you see
that when you interact withpeople from different ethnic
backgrounds, you learn a lotfrom them.
So that is also something thatyou don't get in Pakistan,
because it's more or less likeLahore and more or less is
homogeneous, with the samelanguage and culture, same set
(31:21):
of values.
That is a major difference.
So, yeah, definitely.
I mean, these are subtle thingsthat you learn as you progress
through your journey.
Gurasis (31:28):
Yeah, and I think you were also telling me earlier
about some accessibility ofcertain resources, which is
pretty good here comparing toPakistan.
Ali (31:37):
Yeah, definitely.
In the photography business,especially in newborn and
maternity photography, which ismy wife's niche you tend to use
a lot of props and a lot ofthese outfits that are important
for babies and mothers.
The availability of thosethings is very, very easy in
Canada as compared to Pakistan.
(31:57):
So, yeah, definitely, this isthe major challenge back there.
Gurasis (32:00):
Absolutely.
And how would you define thework-like balance of Canada,
comparing it to?
Ali (32:06):
Oh, it's amazing because in Pakistan, unfortunately, even
in bigger organizations, thereis plenty of unpaid overtime
that you have to put into yourjob to be successful, and it's
very competitive.
It's competitive here as well,but nobody expects you to work
overtime.
(32:26):
If there's work that needs tobe done, you would get approval
from your manager and thenyou'll be paid for that overtime
.
So that's a major difference.
And also, I feel like people inCanada think of themselves as
being this person who has job.
In Pakistan, a lot of peoplelink their identity with their
(32:49):
career and their job.
Their lifestyle at work is allthey have in their life, so they
do not have a life outside ofwork.
I mean, I'm not just talkingabout everyone, but definitely
there are a lot of people whoassociate all of their identity
in their entire life with theirwork.
(33:11):
So, which is very unhealthy,because I think, as a father, as
a husband, as a family person,it's important that I spend time
with my family outside of workhours, which is very important
for my kids as they're growingup.
And this is the important ofhaving a healthy work-life
(33:34):
balance, which, honestly, I'verealized now that I've come here
, which I did not realize backin Pakistan.
Gurasis (33:41):
Unfortunately, that is the norm in India as well.
People, I think their work istheir life, but here in Canada,
their job is part of their day.
It's not their day or it's nottheir life, and that's something
which I absolutely love.
When I came here and interactedwith the people and saw the
culture, that was one of thethings most fascinating to me
(34:01):
when I started working here inCanada.
Ali (34:03):
Totally agree.
Yes.
Gurasis (34:07):
So you mentioned earlier that you also went back
to school and you startedstudying the immigration
consultancy right and you workin the same and you have a
business of your own and you dointeract with a lot of
immigrants from all around theworld, different cultures.
Once again, and I'm sure theywere some commonly asked
questions that come your way, orjust like general interactions
(34:29):
or certain cases that come yourway that you can share and
people can just learn from those.
Ali (34:34):
Yeah, thank you for that, yeah.
So while I was searching for myjob, someone suggested that why
don't you do something inaddition to your regular 9 to 5
job and try to find somethingthat you can adjust with your
schedule?
And I ended up doing thisimmigration consulting course
(34:55):
for six months and wrote theexam for the license, and I've
been doing this on the site foralmost two years now and I've
met some very, very interesting,some very competent people
through this work.
No-transcript.
I feel like Canada is definitelybringing some of the best
(35:17):
talent from across the worldhere, and people who are very
established in their careers,very successful, are giving up
their life to come to Canada,which is a major, major change
for them.
But I feel like some of them arenot as prepared for life which
is, in some ways, morechallenging than their lives
(35:41):
back in countries like Pakistan,india, nigeria, china,
philippines, because a lot ofthese people are from privileged
backgrounds in cushy jobs.
They have a lifestyle where theyhave five different people
doing different work at homesomeone weighing their lawn,
(36:04):
someone else cooking for them,someone cleaning their house.
So those things are verydifferent here, because you have
to do a lot of that work onyour own here, so that lifestyle
is different.
Also, people who are based inthe Middle East are not used to
paying taxes and the incomes inthose countries are much, much
(36:28):
higher.
So when they come here, forthem it's a big, big shock
because, to the welfare state,you have to pay taxes.
The wages in Canada arerelatively lower.
It's a big shock for them aswell.
So I think whoever is planningto come to Canada, they should
talk to people who are alreadyhere and who've made that
transition similar to their path, whatever their path is, if
(36:51):
they're coming directly fromtheir native country, like
Pakistan.
Gurasis (36:54):
India.
Ali (36:55):
Philippines, or if they are coming through another country
like Saudi Arabia or Oman, uae,where you're earning a lot more
than your native country and youhave a lifestyle that is far,
far better than your nativecountry.
In many cases, people are notaware that Canada is a little
different.
It's a great country, but it'sa Western country, right, so you
(37:16):
have to do things on your own.
So that is one thing I think.
Whoever is coming, they shouldbe aware that they need to be
prepared financially, but alsopsychologically be prepared to
do things on their own in thisculture.
Also, I've met people who arevery comfortable in their lives.
They are frustrated about a lotof things in their surroundings
(37:39):
and they look up to people wholive in Canada or the US and
they want to move here, butthey're not ready to take that
plunge.
Some of the people back intheir native countries are very
comfortable in their situationand, even though they're very
competent to make it big in acountry like Canada, they're so
comfortable in their situationsthat they do not even try to
(38:00):
apply.
And I tell them that you have alot of potential and you can be
even more successful in acountry like Canada with a free
economy with access to the USmarket, so they should access
Canada.
Gurasis (38:13):
Immigration so only we were also discussing earlier in
our conversation that a lot ofpeople who come to you, they are
at such a desperate stagebecause their PR clock is
ticking, their worker isexpiring and they want to just
get things done as quickly aspossible.
And they come to you andsometimes they ask you for the
(38:34):
jobs and one of the responsesnot directly but the indirect
responses the jobs are not inour pockets.
It takes time, it takes work,it takes research and nothing
will happen in a click.
So I want to expand on that andthe interactions that you have
had with few of the immigrants.
Ali (38:52):
So, yeah, I think this is a great issue that I face day in,
day out.
People who come here are notused to finding jobs through
networking, through meetingother people, through
understanding what the jobmarket looks like.
A lot of people believe thatapplying online or through
(39:13):
LinkedIn would be enough forthem, which is definitely not
the case.
So it's important that you meetpeople in your industry,
whether they are from yourcultural background or not, but
meet people through LinkedIn,through networking events,
through other people that youknow in your industry.
Meet them, request them fortheir 15 minutes, take them out
(39:38):
for coffee if that's possible,or set up a call on Zoom.
Be very, very specific in yourquestions.
Ask them what kind of jobs areavailable in the industry,
request them to review yourresume and ask them what kind of
advice would they give you inyour unique situation.
(40:01):
So I think it's important thatyou reach out to people in your
industry, in your job role, inyour dream role, rather, and
then ask them for advice,because they are the ones who
know the industry much betterthan you and they can provide
you advice that will help you.
Also, a lot of people shy awayfrom interacting with unknown
(40:25):
people on LinkedIn because theyfeel that the other person might
get offended or they might notget a good response.
In my career, I've seen that ifI have a premium LinkedIn
membership, which is like a paidsubscription, and if I reach
out to people through theirinbox, I get some great
(40:49):
responses.
That's because peopleunderstand that you're reaching
out for a certain request orwith a certain question that is
relevant to you and it shouldalso be relevant to them as well
.
For instance, if someone isapplying for a job at a certain
organization, I would highlyencourage them to first apply
(41:12):
online and then find some seniorpeople in that organization and
inbox them through LinkedInwith a very brief and to the
point message which mentions whythey are the most relevant
candidate in that field.
I try to do that for multipleemployers and I'm telling you
(41:38):
you'll get responses.
You'll be surprised how manyresponses you'll get.
My current job.
I got back through this processand this was something that a
friend of mine told me and itworks wonders.
But it's important that youinvest time and energy in
finding the right people,talking to them and asking the
(41:59):
right questions.
I think asking intelligentquestions is half the battle.
Once you convince the otherperson that you're asking the
right questions.
That is, when they realize thatyou are the relevant person for
this position.
Gurasis (42:15):
Yeah, I think you said it so nicely that that's what I
think people just forget thatLinkedIn is a great platform.
It's such a great resource thatwe now have we had before as
well.
I think when I came five yearsago I had that.
Maybe I didn't know I had theunderstanding how to use it
properly, but it was in thepandemic when I really started
(42:36):
reaching out to people and, yes,you were right, you'd be
surprised that a lot of peoplereached out and they respond to
you back and it did take time.
Everybody is busy in their lives, obviously, but be a little
patient and don't bedisheartened or just get bogged
down by having no response for afew people and it's absolutely
fine.
And also not to take things thatpersonally, it's not about you,
it is about their schedule andit's about their time whatever.
(42:59):
And also, another thing yousaid is about the questions
right, and I think I have alwaysalways said on the podcast it's
not about having the rightanswers, it's about asking the
right questions.
That will leave you to thebetter responses, not just
asking anything.
You don't have to make athorough research about the
industry or the, for example,speaking to somebody who is in a
(43:21):
position in the industry andyou want to get into the same.
The best thing is you ask themabout the skills and ask them
about what they did before theygot into it.
How did they get the job?
How did they make that as youasked them, for example?
Yeah, but even like, create itas you and give it to them and
ask them to view it for you ifthey are willing to do so, yeah,
I think the reason people shyaway from doing something like
(43:41):
that is because they're goingoff of their experience.
Ali (43:45):
In some of the Asian countries, unfortunately, the
culture there is that peopledon't respond or people don't
give their time.
It's very different in Canada.
People take out time, yeah,even if they're busy.
A lot of people have given meadvice.
I can give you an example of aguy who used to work for Bell.
Okay, he was an Indian guy.
I didn't know him at all.
(44:06):
I just saw his LinkedIn profileand while I was going through
his profile, I found somethingvery interesting in his profile
and I messaged him andimmediately he came back with
his phone number and he said Ihave 15 minutes.
If you're available, you cancall me, and some of the advice
that this guy gave me duringthis phone call changed the
(44:29):
entire perspective that I hadabout the job search.
In some other situations I'vereached out to people and I've
asked them to review my resume.
That has gone really wellbecause they've given me ideas
to add projects and to addvolunteering work to my resume.
They've recommended deletingsome of the information that
(44:51):
might not be relevant to aparticular employer.
Gurasis (44:54):
Exactly.
Ali (44:55):
So tailoring your resume for every job is also a very
important part.
A lot of people in Pakistanthey just tend to create one
resume and send it out to like amillion jobs.
That's not going to work inCanada.
You need to tailor your resumefor every single job, and
something that our counselor atAccess guided us was, like it's
(45:19):
easier to delete stuff than addnew stuff.
So what she made us do wascreate a resume, a four page
long resume, which had everysingle thing about our
experiences, and then, for everyjob, she made us delete stuff
from that master resume and makeit into a two page resume.
(45:40):
So it was a much faster processand for every job, I was able
to spend like an hour editing myresume, tailoring it and then
writing the cover letter.
So it became a much fasterprocess.
So if you are not writing atailored cover letter, if you're
not editing your resume forevery single job, you're not
(46:02):
doing your share of the workwhich needs to be put in to find
the best job for your situation.
Gurasis (46:11):
So, at least since you are a listener of the podcast,
you know that no topic is offthe table on this podcast,
whether it's seratile, whetherit's racism, and I remember
having like a brief discussionwith you about this topic in our
early conversation that youhave had the pleasure of
speaking with people who havelived in Europe, who have
visited Europe.
(46:31):
You also have some friends wholived in, visited Europe as well
and comparing the culture fromthere to Canada.
In Canada, yes, there is racism, but it is always called out,
but that's not the norm inEurope or in many other parts of
the world.
I want to tell a little bitmore about those interactions
that you have had with yourfriends and other people who
(46:51):
have visited Europe or even someother parts of the world,
comparing it to Canada.
Ali (46:56):
So in my experience, what I've seen in the experience, the
difference of the experiencebetween people in North America
versus European countries isthat in North America, people
are allowed, like immigrants areallowed to be themselves.
This is a place where peopleare able to come, live and
(47:20):
maintain their culture, maintaintheir language, their lifestyle
.
In Europe they do that, butthey're always under that
pressure to conform, whichdefinitely is something that
impacts the way they think aboutthemselves, the way they bring
up their children, and I feellike the freedom that Canada and
(47:43):
the US provide to immigrants isvery different, because if you
see racism, you're going to seea lot of racism.
It is there.
It's not like this is heavenand we don't have racism, but
it's called out.
There are cultural barriers toengaging in racism here, so it's
not easy to be racist and toget away with it, especially at
(48:05):
a workplace, and there areplenty of minority communities
in Canada and the US, so you'realways able to find allies, not
only among your communitiesmembers, but also among other
community members.
So I think it's a great placefor immigrants and also, like
(48:26):
you, have so many differentcultural events going on,
especially in the GreaterToronto area right here, so I
had a friend come from Germany.
He's been living in Germany forover a decade now.
He loves that country, thewelfare system and everything,
but now he has family here.
His sister lives here, hisparents were visiting here and
(48:49):
when he tried different types ofDesi food here, he's like this
is amazing, this is better thangoing back to Pakistan.
So, and when you look at thecalendar full of events from
different cultures throughoutthe year, you realize that
living as a Pakistani or anIndian or a Filipino or a
(49:14):
Ukrainian is so much easier here.
You're able to maintain youridentity and still be part of
this, of the mainstream of thiscountry, which is very, very
unique.
You don't have many countrieswho do this sort of a mosaic of
different cultures.
So this is unique and this is.
(49:36):
This is the reason I and myfamily felt so proud of becoming
Canadian citizens, because wecan be whoever we want to be and
still be Canadians.
So there's this acceptance inyour lifestyle.
There is acceptance of yourlifestyle and the way you want
to live your life.
Gurasis (49:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I have also witnessed some
situations in context racismwhere they considered it.
They considered that, yes, it'sthere and it's time that they
should stop.
But I think the wholeconversation around the DEI is
ongoing and I think there isstill a long way to go regarding
that, but I think, yes, we dosee the change happening.
(50:18):
Sure.
Ali (50:19):
Yeah, definitely Like this.
This country is leading a lotof those conversations, which is
very impressive because thereare a lot of other countries
that are very developed, veryadvanced societies, but the
level of integration that wehave in Canada is is very hard
to find in some of the otherparts of the world.
Gurasis (50:41):
So now we're in the final segment of the podcast.
I call it beneath the accentbecause we are knowing each
other beneath the accent.
I'm going to ask a couple ofquestions.
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or how civil you
feel like.
The idea is just to know moreabout you.
So ready, yeah.
So tell me, what advice wouldyou give to your younger self,
(51:02):
and at what age?
Ali (51:03):
Yeah, age eight and I would say be more like follow your
dreams, be focused more on whatyou want to do rather than be
pressured by someone else.
Gurasis (51:18):
But why that age?
Ali (51:20):
Because I feel like there is a lot of unnecessary pressure
on kids in our culture toconform, and this person or that
person, that one is looking at,his cousin, that one is doing
it this way, so there's a lot ofcomparison with people in our
culture.
So every parent has their ownfavorite other person who they
(51:42):
compare you with, and I'm notlike.
I'm not trying to criticize mymom's parenting style, because
every mom is like that in thatculture.
Gurasis (51:52):
Everybody.
I come from the same culture.
Ali (51:54):
So I mean, I really love my mom and she did the best for me
, but I feel like there's a lotof pressure on my mom it's not
just my mom Like there are otherpeople in the family telling
you to do what this other personis doing.
Nobody says that you have tocarve out your own path, like
you have to do things in yourown style and that's okay, right
(52:16):
.
You don't have to followsomeone's example, you can do
things in your own way, and Ithink that's the kind of
confidence that we are at leasttrying to give our kids.
Gurasis (52:26):
Okay, is there something you recently bought
and you're now regret?
Ali (52:31):
I've learned to be frugal since I came to Canada.
I used to do that a lot inPakistan, especially with
clothes.
But now I've come to arealization that, and also like
I've watched this minimalistdocumentary on Netflix and all
(52:54):
these things so I've come to arealization that we shouldn't
buy stuff just to just to buystuff just for the sake of
owning stuff.
So I've changed myself andprobably because I'm growing
older, so I've become a littlemore responsible with my, with
my finances.
But I used to buy a lot ofclothes that I that I wasted
(53:16):
back in Pakistan.
Gurasis (53:17):
If you had to describe yourself as an creature, what
would it be?
Ali (53:22):
Oh, that's a very interesting question.
I would say a dove piece.
Gurasis (53:31):
Okay, what's next on your bucket list?
Ali (53:34):
Oh yes, so in my immigration field, I have come
across many different types ofcases and different types of
clients, but now I've begunfocusing on business immigration
and that is that is somethingthat I'm very, very exciting, I
excited about in this year andthe next year.
(53:55):
So bringing people, their moneyand their experience all to
Canada, because I want, I wantCanada to be a successful
country.
Gurasis (54:04):
Okay, so who's your go to person when you feel stuck?
Ali (54:08):
Oh, it's a friend of mine.
There's Mubin.
He is the ultimate person in mylife who gives me some amazing
advice.
Gurasis (54:17):
What's the most unusual or unique food that you have
tried and did you like it?
Ali (54:24):
Unique food I tried, cow say, a few months ago.
It's a, cow, says.
I don't know how to describe it.
It's a, it's a.
It's a dish with noodles andsome sort of a gravy.
It's, it's.
(54:44):
It originated in Burma, butsomehow a lot of Mamon families
in Karachi adopted this food andand it's become their symbol
now.
So I tried that in in Canada afew months ago and I really
liked it.
It was very different.
It was a mix of Southeast Asianand and they see food.
Gurasis (55:09):
So very interesting food.
Yeah, yeah, if you could swaplives with somebody for a day,
who would it be If?
Ali (55:20):
go.
I would say Neil Armstrong,because he was my childhood hero
, or rather like almost everykid's hero, because we read
about the moon landings and NeilArmstrong and how he prepared
(55:40):
for everything and how he wasamazing and how he was cool.
And a lot of parents in mycircle used to say, like you
should not just dream, for youshould not dream to become a
doctor or an engineer, dream big, think about becoming an
astronaut.
And so the only name that wehad in mind was Neil Armstrong
at that time.
So maybe like a legend in mytime.
Gurasis (56:05):
And do you have any quirky habits or rituals that
you follow in a daily routine?
Ali (56:11):
So I try to wake up early every morning and do some yoga,
but somehow, if I miss that time, I am not able to do any
exercise throughout the day,which is a totally illogical
habit, because exercise isexercise.
If you don't do it any othertime of the day, that should be
(56:32):
fine.
But I don't know.
I need to go with a flow.
So that's sort of a quirkyhabit that I have.
Gurasis (56:41):
If you could be a contestant for any reality TV
show, which one would you choose, and why?
Ali (56:47):
I would go for Kaan Bhadne ka Karoor Pati just to meet Mr
Amida Bachchan.
He is an incredible source ofinspiration for all of my family
because my parents used towatch his movies and I used to
watch his movies and we still doso just to see him.
Gurasis (57:08):
So imagine you are planning like a dinner party and
you can invite three publicfigures or celebrities.
Who would you invite?
Ali (57:16):
I don't know if you know about the book Deep Work written
by Dr Kalan Jupor, and I wouldinvite him because he is a big
source of inspiration for me interms of how I structure my life
now in terms of productivityand managing my time, managing
(57:36):
my energy and focus.
And I don't know if you knowabout this YouTuber called Ali
Abdaal, out of the UK.
Gurasis (57:43):
Absolutely.
Ali (57:44):
I love him, so I would want to meet him as well, because he
is also a very interestingperson and I have come to enjoy
his videos, his work, veryproductive, someone who has a
lot of depth.
So yeah, these two folks.
I really have been inspired byKalan Jupor.
Over the last like two years orso, I've been reading his books
(58:05):
, I've been following a lot ofthe advice that he gives, which
is amazing.
Gurasis (58:09):
You missed the third one.
Ali (58:11):
Oh yeah, so yeah.
Third one would also be DrAndrew Huberman from Huberman
Labs.
He's also a big source ofinspiration for me.
I've watched his videos.
Some of that content is verycomplicated and complex in terms
of the science and stuff likethat, but he's also someone
who's on a mission to make thecomplicated stuff make it simple
(58:35):
for people to understand andimplement in their lives.
So I mean, I've come to a pointin my life maybe I'm growing
older but I've come to admirepeople who are very
knowledgeable but very humbleand try to make knowledge and
complex things accessible topeople like myself or many
(58:56):
people who do not have access to, like scientific literature or
do not have the skill set todecipher complicated studies and
knowledge.
So I think it's important inthis day and age where we have
access to all these channels,it's important for people who
have knowledge to make it easyfor a lay audience to start
(59:21):
understanding that knowledge andthen implementing it in our
lives, because we have a lot ofinformation but we don't have a
lot of knowledge in today'sworld.
Gurasis (59:33):
So I see that you're pretty passionate about these
people and these contentcreators.
Are there any other contentcreators, or maybe any even
Netflix series, for example?
If you have any would like torecommend.
Ali (59:45):
I would say it's a slightly older documentary on Netflix,
but it's called Digital Dilemma.
So I would advise everyone towatch that documentary because
that shows why all of us are soaddicted to our phones and the
(01:00:05):
kind of impact it's having onour attention spans, on our
ability to learn.
It has impacted us all very,very negatively.
So I think it's important thatall of us watch Digital Dilemma
to understand what's going on.
Gurasis (01:00:22):
Was it Digital Dilemma or Social Dilemma?
I believe.
Ali (01:00:25):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I think the name wasSocial Dilemma.
Gurasis (01:00:29):
Yeah, I have seen that.
It's amazing.
Next is Describe Canada in oneword or a sentence.
Ali (01:00:36):
A mosaic, because a mosaic is where you have different
colors and different patternscome together and they look
beautiful when you look at it.
Gurasis (01:00:48):
So, finally, if you could leave me with one piece of
advice, what would it be?
Ali (01:00:54):
Keep doing what you're doing.
This is amazing.
Please don't let anyone oranything discourage you, because
you are connecting people whoneed advice, motivation and
encouragement to be their bestand be very, very successful,
because everyone who comes toCanada is very unique and they
(01:01:18):
have something in them.
That's why they came here.
So I would encourage you tokeep doing what you're doing,
because you're impacting so manylives with this.
Gurasis (01:01:29):
Thank you.
Thank you, Ali, for your kindwords and thank you for being on
the podcast and adding value tomy listeners.
Thank you.
Ali (01:01:36):
Thank you so much, Graces.
It's been an incredibleexperience sharing my story.
Hope it helped someone.
Gurasis (01:01:42):
I'm sure it will.
Thank you, hey listener, thankyou for making it to the end.
I highly highly appreciate youlistening to the podcast.
Subscribe to the podcast if youhaven't as yet, and please
share with your friends oranybody you think would like it.
And, like I always say, weencourage you to follow your
heart but also us on Instagram,the handle is @MyThickAccent .
(01:02:04):
You can also leave us a reviewor write to us at hello at
Hello@mythickaccent.
com.
So stay tuned and let'scontinue knowing each other
beneath the accent.
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're listening to My
Thick Accent podcast.
In the vibrant andever-expanding world of
(00:20):
podcasting, as I reached theone-year milestone with My Thick
Accent, a truly enchantingfacet of this podcast is its
remarkable capacity to bringtogether captivating individuals
who hail from the farthestreaches of our planet.
This medium possesses a uniquepower, I believe, and almost
magical ability to dissolve thevery borders that separate
(00:44):
nations, enabling connections,dialogues and exchanges that
might otherwise have beenconsiderably more challenging
within the confines of our ownhomelands.
I consider this anextraordinary conduit, one that
transcends geographical,cultural and temporal boundaries
.
It functions as a virtualbridge, deftly spanning chasms
(01:08):
and creating a space wherediscussions can flow freely,
unburdened by the constraints ofphysical distance or political
divides.
This freedom to converse,explore and connect is a
testament to the profound impactof this medium, and today I
welcome an individual who isalso from the Indian
(01:28):
subcontinent, also from Punjab,but from the other side of the
border.
Originally from Pakistan, heembarked on a journey that took
him from the vibrant streets ofPakistan to the welcoming
embrace of Canada, an individualwhose experiences resonate with
countless immigrants strivingfor a better life.
Our conversation will navigatethe intricacies of immigration
(01:51):
landscape, shedding light on thechallenges faced, the wisdom
acquired and the relentlessspirit that fuels the
immigrant's journey.
We'll delve into the nuances ofcultural adaptation,
contrasting work environmentsbetween our homeland and Canada
and the vital significance ofsetting realistic expectations
on foreign shores.
(02:12):
Without any further ado, pleasewelcome Ali Malik.
Ali (02:18):
Hi Gurasis, how are you?
Gurasis (02:20):
I'm great.
Welcome to the podcast.
Ali (02:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a great platform thatyou've built over the past one
year.
I've listened to a lot of yourpodcasts and learned a lot, and
it's interesting how a lot ofthe stories resonated with me,
because our experiences asimmigrants are very, very
(02:43):
similar in many ways, and thereis a lot that I've learned from
some of the guests on thispodcast.
So thank you so much forcreating this platform for all
of us.
Gurasis (02:53):
No, I think thank you for listening in, tuning in and
reaching out as well.
It's always pleasure hearingthat okay somebody is listening
to it.
You do see those numbers buthaving a face to that number, a
voice to that number, isabsolutely amazing.
So, thank you.
Thank you so much for that.
So, Ali, let me start by askingyou tell me, do you have any
(03:16):
favorite inspirational quote orsaying that resonates with you?
Ali (03:21):
So the famous quote be the change you want to see in the
world.
I feel that that quote inspiresme and it has inspired a lot of
people around the world to takeinitiative and take the lead in
a lot of things in their lives.
Gurasis (03:37):
Okay, and is there any habit that has changed your life
or something that has becomeyour second nature?
Ali (03:43):
Yeah, I think having a structured routine in life is
very, very important.
Unfortunately, back in Asiancountries we sleep late and we
are in the rush every morning.
That is a problem that I'veseen across many different
countries.
That is something that Ichanged here, because sleeping
(04:06):
on time, waking up early,getting to work early, that is
something that I've seen.
People are very disciplined inNorth America and people take
this very, very CNC stuff.
I think that habit has helpedme become more efficient in my
life.
Gurasis (04:22):
I'm sure it also happens in terms of having the
food.
For example, I think in myhouse, even till date, my
parents have food at like 9, 10pm, but here, I think by 9, 10,
I'm literally on my bedsometimes.
Is that the same with you?
Ali (04:38):
Exactly.
I had never imagined I couldhave dinner at 6 pm and now I'm
the one who's encouraging myfamily to have dinner at 6, 6,
30.
So it definitely changes youand your whole approach towards
the daily routine.
Gurasis (04:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaking of families andspeaking of the time you spent
in Pakistan, let me take youback there.
Tell us I will listen a littlebit about the time you spent
there.
Tell us about the city you arefrom and what the focus was on
growing up.
Ali (05:08):
Yeah, so I grew up in a very smart town called Nushaira,
near Peshawar, so I learned thelanguage there.
It's a great culture, verydifferent from Punjab, where my
father's family actually belongs.
For him, and emphasis, justlike any other basic family, was
education, being good with yourgrades and making sure that
(05:33):
you're successful in your career.
Those things are very important.
I unfortunately lost my dadwhen I was seven, so I was a
single child.
I grew up with my mom, so mymom was a doctor, very
disciplined, workaholic woman,and she wanted me to become a
doctor as well.
(05:53):
Unfortunately, I wasn't inclinedtowards a medical profession,
so the second acceptableprofession my family was
engineering, so went for abachelor's in engineering, but I
was working for a digitalmarketing agency after that and
I realized that I had had aninterest in marketing and I was
(06:15):
lucky enough to be accepted atPakistan's number one business
school, which is not in Bihar.
So I joined that program andafter that I was working as a
brand manager for beer, which isa German giant.
It's a company inpharmaceutical, consumer health
(06:37):
and agriculture chemicals.
So I was working in theagriculture services and
agriculture chemicals divisionin Lahore.
They very different from mycurrent work but would be
exciting work.
I got to work with farmers andsmall landholders throughout
(06:59):
Punjab in Pakistan and I wastaken aback by some of the
challenges that farmers facethese days due to global warming
and water scarcity and extremeweather during my time there, so
it was a great learning.
And also we had a great team ofindividuals in our organization
(07:23):
.
Learned a lot from them, bothtechnical the agri agronomist
and the agri technicians andalso the management team in the
head office, so it was an allaround very, very nice
experience.
Gurasis (07:38):
But how did you transition from engineering to
digital marketing?
Or did you have any discussionafter that with your mother, who
told you that what are yourdoing, or something?
Ali (07:49):
Yeah, I think career is something that is scrutinized by
parents, and we talk a lotabout what job you want to do
and what career you want to bein.
It's something that's discussedby the entire family, by
parents, by cousins, everyone.
But I feel like, at the end ofthe day, what matters is what
(08:11):
you want to do, and after a time, I'd become independent and I
was like Mom, I'm not listeningto you, I'm doing my own thing.
So it was that stage.
Gurasis (08:26):
So tell us, ali, something about Pakistan that
people might not know about, andI remember, before the call,
you were telling me about thediverse culture in Pakistan,
where we do hear a lot about theIndian diversity, but tell us a
little bit about Pakistan.
Ali (08:41):
Yeah, great question.
So I grew up near Peshawar inthe KP province.
Kp is generally considered tobe very small, a backward sort
of a place, which is the case ifyou look at the macroscopic
picture, but I feel like thereare plenty of opportunities in
(09:03):
terms of business opportunities,in terms of looking at the
amazing people that that placehas and the very rich culture
that Pukhtul people have.
So I've lived among them forover two decades and I can say
that they have a great culturewhich has a long history like,
(09:27):
just like the culture in Punjabor anywhere else in Pakistan.
It's a very rich culture whichis misunderstood by a lot of
people and I feel like the food,the hospitality, the way they
come together and wheneversomeone needs them, that is very
, very unique to the Pukhtulculture.
So I really love that andpicked up a lot of my life long
(09:48):
learnings from that culture.
Gurasis (09:51):
Okay, and is it true that, like the Bollywood, the
Hindi cinema is very prominent?
Was that a part of your growingup here?
Ali (10:00):
Oh yeah, definitely yeah.
So I mean movies like DilChahta Hai or even like cheesy
ones, like Kuch Huta Hai, thoseones, those ones were very
popular when I was growing up.
So yeah, all these Bollywoodstars are still very popular in
(10:22):
Pakistan and we all love Indianmusic and I mean every Pakistani
wedding that I've been to, wedanced on Bollywood songs.
So yeah, it's part of theculture.
We made it our own in many ways.
Gurasis (10:43):
And is there a time that you'd like to go back and
live again from your childhood,or just the growing up years.
Ali (10:50):
Yeah, I feel like.
So I feel like things havechanged a lot in the overall
culture and the pressure that weused to feel as a generation
growing up in terms of the focuson the grades and the focus on
(11:11):
competition at school.
I think that I wish that wasnot there and there was more
focus on having fun and makingfriendships making like lasting,
deep friendships at school.
So I would change that if Iwere to go back in time, because
(11:34):
I feel like there was a lot ofpressure in our time on our
generation to study, study,study, get good grades Okay.
Gurasis (11:42):
And is there something that from your culture or
tradition that some people stillpreserve up until today, when
you were in Canada?
Ali (11:50):
Yeah, I think one of the major things that I love about
our culture is respect forelders, making sure you are
always respectful of theiropinions, of the fact that you,
like I've seen this in my familyIf you're sitting, if you see
an elder, a person, walking tothe room, you stand up, you give
(12:13):
them their seat.
That is something that I'veseen throughout my family,
everywhere, and those are littlethings that mean a lot to
elders.
So I feel like that issomething that I want to
continue and hope to continuelike.
Gurasis (12:28):
And what about the language?
Do you make that consciouseffort to instill the language
in your children?
Ali (12:35):
Well, in Canada it's a bit of a challenge, to be honest.
English is probably very easyfor the kids to learn here, so
they definitely are morecomfortable in English than the
local language, like ourtraditional languages.
But yeah, we do make it a pointto speak in our native language
(12:58):
with our kids and they'vepicked up most of it.
But at the end of the day,because they live in an
environment where everyonespeaks English, to them it is an
easier language.
So their choice is clear theyprefer English.
Gurasis (13:16):
So now let's just transition into your decision of
moving to Canada.
Tell us what influenced it andhow was the process for you like
?
Ali (13:26):
Yeah.
So honestly, a very emotionalsort of a decision.
One of my cousins she lives inCanada and she and our husband
we had multiple conversationswith them, me and my wife they
convinced us to apply and theywere like, why don't you just
try?
Try to see if you get through?
And we were lucky enough to getthrough in the first attempt.
(13:49):
And then we were like, okay, itlooks like a good country.
My cousin and her husband, theymoved there about three or four
years before us, so they guidedus and we were able to go
through the whole process and Iwas more like started out as,
okay, let's try to see whathappens.
(14:10):
And then eventually we werelike, okay, now we are, we got
the PR, now let's go Okay.
Gurasis (14:15):
So how long was the process for you like getting the
PR?
Ali (14:19):
In my case, this was back in 2017 when I initially applied
.
So at that time 2017, so thiswas, yeah, pre COVID, so at that
time, it wasn't very difficult.
Honestly, like my profile wasideal for immigration I don't
remember the exact number, butmy points were way above the
(14:42):
benchmark and I was easily ableto get an invitation.
In fact, I got an invitation Iwasn't able to complete, like
provide the documents during thetime I was required to do so.
I couldn't, and then I rejectedthat invitation and next month
I got the invitation again.
It was so easy at that time.
Gurasis (15:00):
And did you do any sort of like a pre arrival
preparation before coming?
Ali (15:05):
Yes, so I think most of my preparation was focused around
finances.
So making sure we had enoughmoney to bring over, making sure
we were able to find a place tolive and you know this better
than me versus, like the housingcrisis unfortunately, is pretty
bad right now in Canada.
It wasn't as bad in 2017, 2018.
(15:28):
So we were able to find when wecame here.
We found Airbnb in thebeginning and then we moved to
an apartment with a one yearlease, so it wasn't that
difficult.
But we did talk to a lot ofpeople before coming here,
making sure we understand whatthe process is, how the
contracts work, what are thebest locations.
(15:49):
When you come here, you don'thave a driver's license, you
don't have a car, so it's betterto live in a location where you
are able to access cross-reeshores and other important stuff
.
So we chose a location inMississauga, ontario, which was
very close to a Walmart, so thatwe would be able to get
(16:12):
groceries, and unfortunately,when we came, it was December,
it was winter, so it was a big,big shock for us, because it was
minus two or minus three and Icame from the hall where zero is
the ultimate goal, like, ifit's zero, people, people go
(16:32):
crazy.
They're like it's zero degreesstraight.
It was a big shock for us whenwe could see snow and minus two
degrees and something like that.
So in the beginning we spent alot of money on buying jackets
and other winter stuff.
So that in itself was a bigshock, but we had planned for
(16:57):
most of that.
So I think it's good to setaside some money for emergency
expenses as well and to planyour finances in the best way
possible before coming.
Gurasis (17:09):
So you said you landed in December, right?
Tell us about your first day,or what were your initial
thoughts and emotions.
Ali (17:15):
Honestly, I feel like when you come here for the first time
and it's your first time inNorth America the jet lag is
crazy.
I mean, making sense of what'sgoing on is impossible.
So it took us at least I think,three days to get over the jet
lag.
(17:35):
And it sounds crazy now becausenow I travel, I come back and
it's not as bad.
I don't know, maybe my mind ormy body has adjusted now to
going across the ocean, but Ifeel like the first time was
impossible.
It was so difficult to adjustto the new time zone, the new
(17:57):
timings and the weather.
So me and my wife we weren'tsure if we'll have like warm
clothes Went to a mall.
We bought plenty of warmclothes for the kids.
So I have two kids now there.
Now my daughter is nine, my sonis six.
At that time my son was one anda half years old, my daughter
(18:20):
was four.
The first few days were verychallenging, but the good thing
is that if you have family inCanada, they're able to help you
.
There is no language barrier.
I've heard stories of peoplemoving to other countries like
Germany or France, where thereis a huge language barrier.
You can't interact with peopleand public transportation is
(18:42):
also, like, difficult to accessbecause of the whole language
barrier.
It's very similar in Turkey aswell.
The good thing is that a lot oftimes, you have family or
friends in Canada.
If you don't have, try tonetwork with people before
coming so that you have someonewho can help you with some of
the basic things, because theamazing thing about North
America is that once you get thehang of it, things are very
(19:04):
straightforward, very structured.
You should be able to findinformation and guidance on
things, but you should know howto look for it.
Gurasis (19:12):
And I think you also came at a time where it started
getting like dark by 5 pm.
So you also must be thinkingthat what is happening here?
The day is over just in likefew hours.
Ali (19:25):
Exactly.
Yeah, it's very challengingwith a very small day and a very
cold weather and with snow.
I mean, I had seen snow before,but not like this, because it
doesn't snow a lot, so it was abig shot.
Gurasis (19:43):
So you were talking about having that emergency
funds initially when you comehere and you were telling me
also earlier that you didn't geta job for the longest time and
your initial year was kind ofchallenging.
Tell us about the whole firstyear.
How was that like?
Ali (19:59):
Yeah, so I think the first year is always very challenging
for any immigrant.
Finding a job is like the firstchallenge that you face here.
In my case, like I mentionedbefore, I was working in the
agricultural chemical space, inmarketing.
Jobs like that are gearedtowards areas on the west side
of Canada or the Paralympics, soI wanted to live in Ontario and
(20:24):
so finding a job in thatsegment was very challenging.
There were very fewopportunities where I could find
like for like so I had totransition my career.
So I then started looking forjobs at smaller organizations.
At that time I wasn't aware ofhow to build a resume for the
(20:44):
Canadian market, how to preparefor interviews, so I was lucky
enough to find someone throughmy network, someone who owned
small agency like a digitalmarketing agency, where I
started working as a contractualemployee in the beginning.
So I had to go back to thedrawing board essentially to
(21:06):
learn about this market,customers, the preferences, and
when you work for an agencyyou're able to work with
different clients and you'reable to work with in different
segments.
So that helped me understandthe market a lot better.
And then I joined a programwhich was like a bridging
(21:27):
program for new immigrantsthrough access employment, where
I was part of a group of Ithink 18 or 20 people who were
all immigrants, were all in thesales and marketing industry and
they were looking for a job inthat industry.
That program helped meunderstand how to approach the
whole interview process, createa new resume from scratch for
(21:50):
the Canadian market, and thathelped me land a job at Canon,
which is a Japanese camera andprinter manufacturer, again in
marketing and app transitionsince then to a financial
services company called Lombardas marketing manager.
Those were the steps that Itook to understand the market
(22:10):
better and then to approach myjob that I'm looking for answers
.
Gurasis (22:14):
You mentioned about this access employment I think a
lot of my guests have alsomentioned it who have
transitioned into careers andwho have we call it the initial
start in Canada.
Do you mind like elaborate alittle bit on that for somebody
who might not know about it?
Ali (22:30):
Okay, yeah.
So access employment is agovernment funded organization
based in the GTA.
They have multiple locationsthroughout the Greater Toronto
area and they are considered theexperts in helping new
immigrants find jobs or increasetheir probability of getting
interviewed for positions intheir field.
(22:52):
So they have these bridgingprograms for different segments,
like for engineering, forsupply chain, for cloud
computing.
So I was part of the sales andmarketing bridging group.
So it was like a five weekprogram, three hours a day on,
delivered live on Zoom.
It was a collaboration withHumber College.
(23:12):
Humber College is also a veryreputable college in Canada, so
the curriculum, some part of thecurriculum, was coming from
them.
So it was a great, greatprogram.
It helped me connect with a lotof people who are in the same
boat as myself.
People from all over the world,like India, china, japan, korea
(23:33):
, sri Lanka, feel that everyoneshould sign up for similar
programs.
There are other programssimilar to this one, but this
definitely gave me the rightinformation and the right
guidance to approach my jobsearch in a more structured way.
Gurasis (23:52):
So this was about you.
Tell me, how was it like foryour children and your wife?
Like, did you guys at any pointquestion even the decision of
moving to Canada?
Ali (24:00):
Well, I did.
But my wife has been a greatmotivator.
She's never questioned thisdecision Of moving here.
She's been motivating me andthe kids.
I think.
Easy to understand.
The kids were very young, soadjusting here wasn't a big
issue for them.
But it was challenging for mebecause finding a job, settling
(24:22):
into a career, was a bigchallenge, especially given the
fact that I was in a very stablecareer back in Pakistan.
So for me it was a morepsychological thing.
Have I made the wrong decision?
Why did I quit my job?
I should have just taken aholiday, like a vacation, and
(24:43):
come here and should have done asoft landing and I should have
gone back.
I mean, all those questionscame to my mind.
But I think my motivation camefrom my wife, who supported me
throughout the process.
And not only did she just saythings to encourage me, she also
supported me by taking care ofthe kids.
The house chores allowed metime to focus on my job hunt, on
(25:08):
my job itself.
I used to sometimes go to thepublic library nearby and sit
there and apply for jobs all daylong.
Literally from 9 AM to 5 PM, myonly job was to apply for jobs.
And then what she did next wasincredible.
She actually started her ownbusiness right from our
(25:31):
apartment.
She has a background inarchitectural engineering, but
she had an interest inphotography and she started a
little photography business backin the horror as well.
But here she started from ourapartment.
I was like why are you doingthis?
We don't have any space to, wedon't have a studio space.
And she was like just watch andsee how it's done.
(25:53):
She was that confident andgradually she built a very loyal
base of customers and now she'svery well established in that
space.
So I think it's aboutsupporting each other, learning
from each other.
I think a lot of thatconfidence comes from having
trust in your relationship.
Gurasis (26:16):
So you are going to complete your five years now, I
believe in December, right?
So how long did it take you foryour first break to the first
job, or what was the moment?
Like you said, you questionedinitially right, Goodbye, did I
come here?
Things were not going your way,so when was the moment you felt
like, OK, now I think I canhave a life in Canada?
When was that moment?
Ali (26:38):
I think it's a difficult question.
There were many moments where Ifelt very, very happy, but I
feel like when I got my, when weas a family, when we got our
citizenship last year, that wasa great moment.
When we became Canadians,Because it is one of those
things which people strive forand people hope and pray for and
(27:02):
work hard for and we were ableto get that within four years.
It became very easy for usbecause we decided to stick with
it.
Like a lot of people come here,they fly back to their native
country or if they're working insome other country like, for
instance, the Middle East orSingapore, they tend to go back
and then they're never able tomake that decision to finally
(27:25):
come to Canada and get thecitizenship and settle here
forever.
But we made that decisionliterally from day one and we
decided to stick with it.
And then we're really happywith that decision because I
feel like we did not confuseourselves by thinking of going
back or regretting our decisionof coming here.
Gurasis (27:47):
And just from my knowledge, I'm just curious to
know does Pakistan also allowthe dual citizenship or it does
not?
Ali (27:53):
Yes, pakistan allows dual citizenship.
Gurasis (27:56):
Yeah, oh, wow, ok, so India does not, if you know it.
I think that's one of thereasons people don't get the
citizenship.
Ali (28:04):
Yes, I understand that India is among a lot of other
countries that do not allow.
I believe countries likeGermany also don't allow dual
citizenship.
So yeah, thankfully Pakistanallows to have a dual
citizenship of Pakistan andCanada.
Gurasis (28:18):
Ok, so Ali you have worked in Pakistan as well, like
you just shared with us earlier, and you told us that your wife
also had a business there andnow she's continuing to run her
business here in Canada as well,and you also work here in
Canada.
But I'm sure there must be alot of culture differences, even
in the working environment orhow people even exchange and
work with each other.
(28:38):
Give us a comparison of workingin Pakistan and comparing it to
the other countries, and thenyou know you can also work in
Pakistan and comparing it toworking in Canada.
Ali (28:53):
Yes, I think that's a great question.
Cultural understanding is veryimportant for anyone to function
in a society, and not theAmerican culture not just
Canadian, but not the Americanculture is very, very different
from Pakistani culture.
I think one of the major thingsthat I noticed here was
professionalism making sure thateveryone is on time, what the
(29:16):
requirements are.
Communication is always very,very important in customer
interaction and professionalinteraction.
Also, I think the awarenesslevel of the customers is very
different.
Customers here are very aware ofwhatever service or work you're
providing.
They are aware of yourcompetitors, they are aware of
(29:37):
their rights and in work culture, like when you go to work for
any organization, you would feelthat it's very different from
South Asian culture becauseyou're not supposed to always
agree with your manager.
You can challenge them, you cansay things like sorry, I don't
(30:01):
agree with you and this is thereason why I don't agree, and
you can provide that reason.
And a lot of times your managerwill say, yeah, you're right, I
was wrong, and that issomething that you don't see a
lot of times in South Asianculture.
Also, in my wife's experience,I've seen that there are a lot
(30:21):
of multicultural customers, soyou have to be aware of using
language that is appropriate,being very, very aware of
different cultures.
Gurasis (30:32):
It must be challenging also for her to be able to
really learn about the cultureor the needs of the people from
different cultures.
Ali (30:40):
Definitely so if a South Asian customer is coming in,
definitely they would prefer afamily shoot as compared to some
of the other cultures thatprefer individual shoots, and
our families are larger as well.
So you have eight people in thestudio versus four people in
(31:01):
the studio with some of theother cultures, and also you see
that when you interact withpeople from different ethnic
backgrounds, you learn a lotfrom them.
So that is also something thatyou don't get in Pakistan,
because it's more or less likeLahore and more or less is
homogeneous, with the samelanguage and culture, same set
(31:21):
of values.
That is a major difference.
So, yeah, definitely.
I mean, these are subtle thingsthat you learn as you progress
through your journey.
Gurasis (31:28):
Yeah, and I think you were also telling me earlier
about some accessibility ofcertain resources, which is
pretty good here comparing toPakistan.
Ali (31:37):
Yeah, definitely.
In the photography business,especially in newborn and
maternity photography, which ismy wife's niche you tend to use
a lot of props and a lot ofthese outfits that are important
for babies and mothers.
The availability of thosethings is very, very easy in
Canada as compared to Pakistan.
(31:57):
So, yeah, definitely, this isthe major challenge back there.
Gurasis (32:00):
Absolutely.
And how would you define thework-like balance of Canada,
comparing it to?
Ali (32:06):
Oh, it's amazing because in Pakistan, unfortunately, even
in bigger organizations, thereis plenty of unpaid overtime
that you have to put into yourjob to be successful, and it's
very competitive.
It's competitive here as well,but nobody expects you to work
overtime.
(32:26):
If there's work that needs tobe done, you would get approval
from your manager and thenyou'll be paid for that overtime
.
So that's a major difference.
And also, I feel like people inCanada think of themselves as
being this person who has job.
In Pakistan, a lot of peoplelink their identity with their
(32:49):
career and their job.
Their lifestyle at work is allthey have in their life, so they
do not have a life outside ofwork.
I mean, I'm not just talkingabout everyone, but definitely
there are a lot of people whoassociate all of their identity
in their entire life with theirwork.
(33:11):
So, which is very unhealthy,because I think, as a father, as
a husband, as a family person,it's important that I spend time
with my family outside of workhours, which is very important
for my kids as they're growingup.
And this is the important ofhaving a healthy work-life
(33:34):
balance, which, honestly, I'verealized now that I've come here
, which I did not realize backin Pakistan.
Gurasis (33:41):
Unfortunately, that is the norm in India as well.
People, I think their work istheir life, but here in Canada,
their job is part of their day.
It's not their day or it's nottheir life, and that's something
which I absolutely love.
When I came here and interactedwith the people and saw the
culture, that was one of thethings most fascinating to me
(34:01):
when I started working here inCanada.
Ali (34:03):
Totally agree.
Yes.
Gurasis (34:07):
So you mentioned earlier that you also went back
to school and you startedstudying the immigration
consultancy right and you workin the same and you have a
business of your own and you dointeract with a lot of
immigrants from all around theworld, different cultures.
Once again, and I'm sure theywere some commonly asked
questions that come your way, orjust like general interactions
(34:29):
or certain cases that come yourway that you can share and
people can just learn from those.
Ali (34:34):
Yeah, thank you for that, yeah.
So while I was searching for myjob, someone suggested that why
don't you do something inaddition to your regular 9 to 5
job and try to find somethingthat you can adjust with your
schedule?
And I ended up doing thisimmigration consulting course
(34:55):
for six months and wrote theexam for the license, and I've
been doing this on the site foralmost two years now and I've
met some very, very interesting,some very competent people
through this work.
No-transcript.
I feel like Canada is definitelybringing some of the best
(35:17):
talent from across the worldhere, and people who are very
established in their careers,very successful, are giving up
their life to come to Canada,which is a major, major change
for them.
But I feel like some of them arenot as prepared for life which
is, in some ways, morechallenging than their lives
(35:41):
back in countries like Pakistan,india, nigeria, china,
philippines, because a lot ofthese people are from privileged
backgrounds in cushy jobs.
They have a lifestyle where theyhave five different people
doing different work at homesomeone weighing their lawn,
(36:04):
someone else cooking for them,someone cleaning their house.
So those things are verydifferent here, because you have
to do a lot of that work onyour own here, so that lifestyle
is different.
Also, people who are based inthe Middle East are not used to
paying taxes and the incomes inthose countries are much, much
(36:28):
higher.
So when they come here, forthem it's a big, big shock
because, to the welfare state,you have to pay taxes.
The wages in Canada arerelatively lower.
It's a big shock for them aswell.
So I think whoever is planningto come to Canada, they should
talk to people who are alreadyhere and who've made that
transition similar to their path, whatever their path is, if
(36:51):
they're coming directly fromtheir native country, like
Pakistan.
Gurasis (36:54):
India.
Ali (36:55):
Philippines, or if they are coming through another country
like Saudi Arabia or Oman, uae,where you're earning a lot more
than your native country and youhave a lifestyle that is far,
far better than your nativecountry.
In many cases, people are notaware that Canada is a little
different.
It's a great country, but it'sa Western country, right, so you
(37:16):
have to do things on your own.
So that is one thing I think.
Whoever is coming, they shouldbe aware that they need to be
prepared financially, but alsopsychologically be prepared to
do things on their own in thisculture.
Also, I've met people who arevery comfortable in their lives.
They are frustrated about a lotof things in their surroundings
(37:39):
and they look up to people wholive in Canada or the US and
they want to move here, butthey're not ready to take that
plunge.
Some of the people back intheir native countries are very
comfortable in their situationand, even though they're very
competent to make it big in acountry like Canada, they're so
comfortable in their situationsthat they do not even try to
(38:00):
apply.
And I tell them that you have alot of potential and you can be
even more successful in acountry like Canada with a free
economy with access to the USmarket, so they should access
Canada.
Gurasis (38:13):
Immigration so only we were also discussing earlier in
our conversation that a lot ofpeople who come to you, they are
at such a desperate stagebecause their PR clock is
ticking, their worker isexpiring and they want to just
get things done as quickly aspossible.
And they come to you andsometimes they ask you for the
(38:34):
jobs and one of the responsesnot directly but the indirect
responses the jobs are not inour pockets.
It takes time, it takes work,it takes research and nothing
will happen in a click.
So I want to expand on that andthe interactions that you have
had with few of the immigrants.
Ali (38:52):
So, yeah, I think this is a great issue that I face day in,
day out.
People who come here are notused to finding jobs through
networking, through meetingother people, through
understanding what the jobmarket looks like.
A lot of people believe thatapplying online or through
(39:13):
LinkedIn would be enough forthem, which is definitely not
the case.
So it's important that you meetpeople in your industry,
whether they are from yourcultural background or not, but
meet people through LinkedIn,through networking events,
through other people that youknow in your industry.
Meet them, request them fortheir 15 minutes, take them out
(39:38):
for coffee if that's possible,or set up a call on Zoom.
Be very, very specific in yourquestions.
Ask them what kind of jobs areavailable in the industry,
request them to review yourresume and ask them what kind of
advice would they give you inyour unique situation.
(40:01):
So I think it's important thatyou reach out to people in your
industry, in your job role, inyour dream role, rather, and
then ask them for advice,because they are the ones who
know the industry much betterthan you and they can provide
you advice that will help you.
Also, a lot of people shy awayfrom interacting with unknown
(40:25):
people on LinkedIn because theyfeel that the other person might
get offended or they might notget a good response.
In my career, I've seen that ifI have a premium LinkedIn
membership, which is like a paidsubscription, and if I reach
out to people through theirinbox, I get some great
(40:49):
responses.
That's because peopleunderstand that you're reaching
out for a certain request orwith a certain question that is
relevant to you and it shouldalso be relevant to them as well
.
For instance, if someone isapplying for a job at a certain
organization, I would highlyencourage them to first apply
(41:12):
online and then find some seniorpeople in that organization and
inbox them through LinkedInwith a very brief and to the
point message which mentions whythey are the most relevant
candidate in that field.
I try to do that for multipleemployers and I'm telling you
(41:38):
you'll get responses.
You'll be surprised how manyresponses you'll get.
My current job.
I got back through this processand this was something that a
friend of mine told me and itworks wonders.
But it's important that youinvest time and energy in
finding the right people,talking to them and asking the
(41:59):
right questions.
I think asking intelligentquestions is half the battle.
Once you convince the otherperson that you're asking the
right questions.
That is, when they realize thatyou are the relevant person for
this position.
Gurasis (42:15):
Yeah, I think you said it so nicely that that's what I
think people just forget thatLinkedIn is a great platform.
It's such a great resource thatwe now have we had before as
well.
I think when I came five yearsago I had that.
Maybe I didn't know I had theunderstanding how to use it
properly, but it was in thepandemic when I really started
(42:36):
reaching out to people and, yes,you were right, you'd be
surprised that a lot of peoplereached out and they respond to
you back and it did take time.
Everybody is busy in their lives, obviously, but be a little
patient and don't bedisheartened or just get bogged
down by having no response for afew people and it's absolutely
fine.
And also not to take things thatpersonally, it's not about you,
it is about their schedule andit's about their time whatever.
(42:59):
And also, another thing yousaid is about the questions
right, and I think I have alwaysalways said on the podcast it's
not about having the rightanswers, it's about asking the
right questions.
That will leave you to thebetter responses, not just
asking anything.
You don't have to make athorough research about the
industry or the, for example,speaking to somebody who is in a
(43:21):
position in the industry andyou want to get into the same.
The best thing is you ask themabout the skills and ask them
about what they did before theygot into it.
How did they get the job?
How did they make that as youasked them, for example?
Yeah, but even like, create itas you and give it to them and
ask them to view it for you ifthey are willing to do so, yeah,
I think the reason people shyaway from doing something like
(43:41):
that is because they're goingoff of their experience.
Ali (43:45):
In some of the Asian countries, unfortunately, the
culture there is that peopledon't respond or people don't
give their time.
It's very different in Canada.
People take out time, yeah,even if they're busy.
A lot of people have given meadvice.
I can give you an example of aguy who used to work for Bell.
Okay, he was an Indian guy.
I didn't know him at all.
(44:06):
I just saw his LinkedIn profileand while I was going through
his profile, I found somethingvery interesting in his profile
and I messaged him andimmediately he came back with
his phone number and he said Ihave 15 minutes.
If you're available, you cancall me, and some of the advice
that this guy gave me duringthis phone call changed the
(44:29):
entire perspective that I hadabout the job search.
In some other situations I'vereached out to people and I've
asked them to review my resume.
That has gone really wellbecause they've given me ideas
to add projects and to addvolunteering work to my resume.
They've recommended deletingsome of the information that
(44:51):
might not be relevant to aparticular employer.
Gurasis (44:54):
Exactly.
Ali (44:55):
So tailoring your resume for every job is also a very
important part.
A lot of people in Pakistanthey just tend to create one
resume and send it out to like amillion jobs.
That's not going to work inCanada.
You need to tailor your resumefor every single job, and
something that our counselor atAccess guided us was, like it's
(45:19):
easier to delete stuff than addnew stuff.
So what she made us do wascreate a resume, a four page
long resume, which had everysingle thing about our
experiences, and then, for everyjob, she made us delete stuff
from that master resume and makeit into a two page resume.
(45:40):
So it was a much faster processand for every job, I was able
to spend like an hour editing myresume, tailoring it and then
writing the cover letter.
So it became a much fasterprocess.
So if you are not writing atailored cover letter, if you're
not editing your resume forevery single job, you're not
(46:02):
doing your share of the workwhich needs to be put in to find
the best job for your situation.
Gurasis (46:11):
So, at least since you are a listener of the podcast,
you know that no topic is offthe table on this podcast,
whether it's seratile, whetherit's racism, and I remember
having like a brief discussionwith you about this topic in our
early conversation that youhave had the pleasure of
speaking with people who havelived in Europe, who have
visited Europe.
(46:31):
You also have some friends wholived in, visited Europe as well
and comparing the culture fromthere to Canada.
In Canada, yes, there is racism, but it is always called out,
but that's not the norm inEurope or in many other parts of
the world.
I want to tell a little bitmore about those interactions
that you have had with yourfriends and other people who
(46:51):
have visited Europe or even someother parts of the world,
comparing it to Canada.
Ali (46:56):
So in my experience, what I've seen in the experience, the
difference of the experiencebetween people in North America
versus European countries isthat in North America, people
are allowed, like immigrants areallowed to be themselves.
This is a place where peopleare able to come, live and
(47:20):
maintain their culture, maintaintheir language, their lifestyle
.
In Europe they do that, butthey're always under that
pressure to conform, whichdefinitely is something that
impacts the way they think aboutthemselves, the way they bring
up their children, and I feellike the freedom that Canada and
(47:43):
the US provide to immigrants isvery different, because if you
see racism, you're going to seea lot of racism.
It is there.
It's not like this is heavenand we don't have racism, but
it's called out.
There are cultural barriers toengaging in racism here, so it's
not easy to be racist and toget away with it, especially at
(48:05):
a workplace, and there areplenty of minority communities
in Canada and the US, so you'realways able to find allies, not
only among your communitiesmembers, but also among other
community members.
So I think it's a great placefor immigrants and also, like
(48:26):
you, have so many differentcultural events going on,
especially in the GreaterToronto area right here, so I
had a friend come from Germany.
He's been living in Germany forover a decade now.
He loves that country, thewelfare system and everything,
but now he has family here.
His sister lives here, hisparents were visiting here and
(48:49):
when he tried different types ofDesi food here, he's like this
is amazing, this is better thangoing back to Pakistan.
So, and when you look at thecalendar full of events from
different cultures throughoutthe year, you realize that
living as a Pakistani or anIndian or a Filipino or a
(49:14):
Ukrainian is so much easier here.
You're able to maintain youridentity and still be part of
this, of the mainstream of thiscountry, which is very, very
unique.
You don't have many countrieswho do this sort of a mosaic of
different cultures.
So this is unique and this is.
(49:36):
This is the reason I and myfamily felt so proud of becoming
Canadian citizens, because wecan be whoever we want to be and
still be Canadians.
So there's this acceptance inyour lifestyle.
There is acceptance of yourlifestyle and the way you want
to live your life.
Gurasis (49:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I have also witnessed some
situations in context racismwhere they considered it.
They considered that, yes, it'sthere and it's time that they
should stop.
But I think the wholeconversation around the DEI is
ongoing and I think there isstill a long way to go regarding
that, but I think, yes, we dosee the change happening.
(50:18):
Sure.
Ali (50:19):
Yeah, definitely Like this.
This country is leading a lotof those conversations, which is
very impressive because thereare a lot of other countries
that are very developed, veryadvanced societies, but the
level of integration that wehave in Canada is is very hard
to find in some of the otherparts of the world.
Gurasis (50:41):
So now we're in the final segment of the podcast.
I call it beneath the accentbecause we are knowing each
other beneath the accent.
I'm going to ask a couple ofquestions.
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or how civil you
feel like.
The idea is just to know moreabout you.
So ready, yeah.
So tell me, what advice wouldyou give to your younger self,
(51:02):
and at what age?
Ali (51:03):
Yeah, age eight and I would say be more like follow your
dreams, be focused more on whatyou want to do rather than be
pressured by someone else.
Gurasis (51:18):
But why that age?
Ali (51:20):
Because I feel like there is a lot of unnecessary pressure
on kids in our culture toconform, and this person or that
person, that one is looking at,his cousin, that one is doing
it this way, so there's a lot ofcomparison with people in our
culture.
So every parent has their ownfavorite other person who they
(51:42):
compare you with, and I'm notlike.
I'm not trying to criticize mymom's parenting style, because
every mom is like that in thatculture.
Gurasis (51:52):
Everybody.
I come from the same culture.
Ali (51:54):
So I mean, I really love my mom and she did the best for me
, but I feel like there's a lotof pressure on my mom it's not
just my mom Like there are otherpeople in the family telling
you to do what this other personis doing.
Nobody says that you have tocarve out your own path, like
you have to do things in yourown style and that's okay, right
(52:16):
.
You don't have to followsomeone's example, you can do
things in your own way, and Ithink that's the kind of
confidence that we are at leasttrying to give our kids.
Gurasis (52:26):
Okay, is there something you recently bought
and you're now regret?
Ali (52:31):
I've learned to be frugal since I came to Canada.
I used to do that a lot inPakistan, especially with
clothes.
But now I've come to arealization that, and also like
I've watched this minimalistdocumentary on Netflix and all
(52:54):
these things so I've come to arealization that we shouldn't
buy stuff just to just to buystuff just for the sake of
owning stuff.
So I've changed myself andprobably because I'm growing
older, so I've become a littlemore responsible with my, with
my finances.
But I used to buy a lot ofclothes that I that I wasted
(53:16):
back in Pakistan.
Gurasis (53:17):
If you had to describe yourself as an creature, what
would it be?
Ali (53:22):
Oh, that's a very interesting question.
I would say a dove piece.
Gurasis (53:31):
Okay, what's next on your bucket list?
Ali (53:34):
Oh yes, so in my immigration field, I have come
across many different types ofcases and different types of
clients, but now I've begunfocusing on business immigration
and that is that is somethingthat I'm very, very exciting, I
excited about in this year andthe next year.
(53:55):
So bringing people, their moneyand their experience all to
Canada, because I want, I wantCanada to be a successful
country.
Gurasis (54:04):
Okay, so who's your go to person when you feel stuck?
Ali (54:08):
Oh, it's a friend of mine.
There's Mubin.
He is the ultimate person in mylife who gives me some amazing
advice.
Gurasis (54:17):
What's the most unusual or unique food that you have
tried and did you like it?
Ali (54:24):
Unique food I tried, cow say, a few months ago.
It's a, cow, says.
I don't know how to describe it.
It's a, it's a.
It's a dish with noodles andsome sort of a gravy.
It's, it's.
(54:44):
It originated in Burma, butsomehow a lot of Mamon families
in Karachi adopted this food andand it's become their symbol
now.
So I tried that in in Canada afew months ago and I really
liked it.
It was very different.
It was a mix of Southeast Asianand and they see food.
Gurasis (55:09):
So very interesting food.
Yeah, yeah, if you could swaplives with somebody for a day,
who would it be If?
Ali (55:20):
go.
I would say Neil Armstrong,because he was my childhood hero
, or rather like almost everykid's hero, because we read
about the moon landings and NeilArmstrong and how he prepared
(55:40):
for everything and how he wasamazing and how he was cool.
And a lot of parents in mycircle used to say, like you
should not just dream, for youshould not dream to become a
doctor or an engineer, dream big, think about becoming an
astronaut.
And so the only name that wehad in mind was Neil Armstrong
at that time.
So maybe like a legend in mytime.
Gurasis (56:05):
And do you have any quirky habits or rituals that
you follow in a daily routine?
Ali (56:11):
So I try to wake up early every morning and do some yoga,
but somehow, if I miss that time, I am not able to do any
exercise throughout the day,which is a totally illogical
habit, because exercise isexercise.
If you don't do it any othertime of the day, that should be
(56:32):
fine.
But I don't know.
I need to go with a flow.
So that's sort of a quirkyhabit that I have.
Gurasis (56:41):
If you could be a contestant for any reality TV
show, which one would you choose, and why?
Ali (56:47):
I would go for Kaan Bhadne ka Karoor Pati just to meet Mr
Amida Bachchan.
He is an incredible source ofinspiration for all of my family
because my parents used towatch his movies and I used to
watch his movies and we still doso just to see him.
Gurasis (57:08):
So imagine you are planning like a dinner party and
you can invite three publicfigures or celebrities.
Who would you invite?
Ali (57:16):
I don't know if you know about the book Deep Work written
by Dr Kalan Jupor, and I wouldinvite him because he is a big
source of inspiration for me interms of how I structure my life
now in terms of productivityand managing my time, managing
(57:36):
my energy and focus.
And I don't know if you knowabout this YouTuber called Ali
Abdaal, out of the UK.
Gurasis (57:43):
Absolutely.
Ali (57:44):
I love him, so I would want to meet him as well, because he
is also a very interestingperson and I have come to enjoy
his videos, his work, veryproductive, someone who has a
lot of depth.
So yeah, these two folks.
I really have been inspired byKalan Jupor.
Over the last like two years orso, I've been reading his books
(58:05):
, I've been following a lot ofthe advice that he gives, which
is amazing.
Gurasis (58:09):
You missed the third one.
Ali (58:11):
Oh yeah, so yeah.
Third one would also be DrAndrew Huberman from Huberman
Labs.
He's also a big source ofinspiration for me.
I've watched his videos.
Some of that content is verycomplicated and complex in terms
of the science and stuff likethat, but he's also someone
who's on a mission to make thecomplicated stuff make it simple
(58:35):
for people to understand andimplement in their lives.
So I mean, I've come to a pointin my life maybe I'm growing
older but I've come to admirepeople who are very
knowledgeable but very humbleand try to make knowledge and
complex things accessible topeople like myself or many
(58:56):
people who do not have access to, like scientific literature or
do not have the skill set todecipher complicated studies and
knowledge.
So I think it's important inthis day and age where we have
access to all these channels,it's important for people who
have knowledge to make it easyfor a lay audience to start
(59:21):
understanding that knowledge andthen implementing it in our
lives, because we have a lot ofinformation but we don't have a
lot of knowledge in today'sworld.
Gurasis (59:33):
So I see that you're pretty passionate about these
people and these contentcreators.
Are there any other contentcreators, or maybe any even
Netflix series, for example?
If you have any would like torecommend.
Ali (59:45):
I would say it's a slightly older documentary on Netflix,
but it's called Digital Dilemma.
So I would advise everyone towatch that documentary because
that shows why all of us are soaddicted to our phones and the
(01:00:05):
kind of impact it's having onour attention spans, on our
ability to learn.
It has impacted us all very,very negatively.
So I think it's important thatall of us watch Digital Dilemma
to understand what's going on.
Gurasis (01:00:22):
Was it Digital Dilemma or Social Dilemma?
I believe.
Ali (01:00:25):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I think the name wasSocial Dilemma.
Gurasis (01:00:29):
Yeah, I have seen that.
It's amazing.
Next is Describe Canada in oneword or a sentence.
Ali (01:00:36):
A mosaic, because a mosaic is where you have different
colors and different patternscome together and they look
beautiful when you look at it.
Gurasis (01:00:48):
So, finally, if you could leave me with one piece of
advice, what would it be?
Ali (01:00:54):
Keep doing what you're doing.
This is amazing.
Please don't let anyone oranything discourage you, because
you are connecting people whoneed advice, motivation and
encouragement to be their bestand be very, very successful,
because everyone who comes toCanada is very unique and they
(01:01:18):
have something in them.
That's why they came here.
So I would encourage you tokeep doing what you're doing,
because you're impacting so manylives with this.
Gurasis (01:01:29):
Thank you.
Thank you, Ali, for your kindwords and thank you for being on
the podcast and adding value tomy listeners.
Thank you.
Ali (01:01:36):
Thank you so much, Graces.
It's been an incredibleexperience sharing my story.
Hope it helped someone.
Gurasis (01:01:42):
I'm sure it will.
Thank you, hey listener, thankyou for making it to the end.
I highly highly appreciate youlistening to the podcast.
Subscribe to the podcast if youhaven't as yet, and please
share with your friends oranybody you think would like it.
And, like I always say, weencourage you to follow your
heart but also us on Instagram,the handle is @MyThickAccent .
(01:02:04):
You can also leave us a reviewor write to us at hello at
Hello@mythickaccent.
com.
So stay tuned and let'scontinue knowing each other
beneath the accent.
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