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Ever wonder how it feels to be a first-generation immigrant?
Join us, as we sit down with Karen, a UK-born woman of Vietnamese descent, who takes us along on her journey of carving a unique identity amidst cultural diversity. Get ready to be swept away by her candid narrative; starting from her parent's voyage from Hong Kong to the UK, her own immigration to Canada, the piquant blend of languages she navigated, and the immense impact of Vietnamese communities on her life.
Make no mistake, Karen's story isn't just about immigration, it's a testament to the power of open-mindedness, resilience, and most importantly, kindness. Her storytelling will not only fascinate you with glimpses into her family dynamics, how they celebrate their cultural heritage, but will also offer you a front-row seat to her personal growth through cross-cultural friendships. You'll hear about her struggles with language learning, her experiences in the nuanced school system of Montreal, and how she's managed to balance her heritage and a newfound sense of belonging.
But that's not all. With Karen, we go beyond the surface, talking about the pressures of family expectations on career choices, and how she found a path that brought her peace. You'll see how her experiences have enriched her personality and instilled in her a sense of belonging. Our conversation with Karen culminates with an ode to open-mindedness, the importance of embracing diversity, and the beauty of forming connections with people from diverse backgrounds.
So come, join us, celebrate diversity, and leave with a newfound appreciation for the first-generation immigrant journey.
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To contact Karen:
- Karen's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mkkarennguyen?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_profile_view_base_contact_details%3BeZ%2F0q4MsQ6ukh2XkEDnCFA%3D%3D
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gurasis (00:00):
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're listening to My
Thick Accent Podcast.
So on this podcast, we haveinvited all kinds of people
(00:21):
belonging to various culturesand roles and domains, each with
their unique stories that haveleft us inspired and intrigued.
Today, however, we are about toembark on a journey into the
perspective that holds a worldof its own the first generation
immigrant experience.
In a tapestry woven with dreams, challenges and the courage to
(00:41):
forge a new path, our guesttoday brings us a story that
reflects the vibrant hues of afirst generation immigrant's
life, stepping across borders,cultures and languages.
Her narrative sheds light onthe unique blend of heritage and
hope that defines the journeyof those who venture to call a
new land home.
We'll uncover the intricatelayers of her background, the
(01:03):
echoes of her roots and theaspirations that led her family
to a new horizon.
Join us as we explore thetrials and triumphs of carving
and identity amidst the tapestryof diversity.
Through her lens, we learnabout the nuances of navigating
language, tradition and thebalance between heritage and
newfound belonging, as sheshares the vibrant mosaic that
(01:24):
defines her path as a firstgeneration immigrant.
Please welcome Karen.
Karen (01:30):
Hello Gurasis, Thank you for having me.
What an introduction.
I am impressed.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Karen and I am superhappy to be here to talk with
you and discuss on everything"First generation immigration.
Gurasis (01:50):
Awesome.
Welcome to the podcast, Karen.
I must tell my listeners thatshe's not the classic Karen.
I've had the opportunity toknow her, you know, I think from
past many months now.
We have had variousconversations and it's always
been a pleasure talking to you.
So welcome to the podcast.
Karen (02:07):
Thank you, I'm very excited to be here.
Gurasis (02:10):
Okay, so so I asked Karen, some of my guests, this
question that what is this onehabit they adopted that has
changed their life, or somethingthat has become their second
nature?
Karen (02:22):
Oh, wow, this really good question.
What have I adopted?
I think just being kind.
Maybe that's a weird answer,but for some people it might be
a bit harder for them to be kind.
But being kind is free, itdoesn't cost anything, and
putting anger and hatred has somuch, takes up so much of your
(02:43):
energy than being kind, in myopinion, and so naturally, just
being kind and thoughtfultowards others has become second
nature to me.
Gurasis (02:52):
Yeah, I like the answer .
Actually, I don't find it weirdat all.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
Sometimes people forget toacquire, I would say, and they
sometimes just forget thateverybody comes from, you know,
with different experiences anddifferent challenges might they
be going through.
The least you can do is be kindto them, I would say.
Karen (03:13):
Yes, I definitely agree.
Being kind is like.
I think it's the pinnacle forall relationships, all
connections in life, in order tocreate more meaning to each
other's life.
Gurasis (03:28):
Yeah, love that answer.
Okay.
So, karen, let's just startfrom the start.
You were born in the UK toimmigrant parents who moved from
Vietnam.
Tell us a little bit about yourtime in London, if you have any
recollection or any storiesthat your parents have shared
with you of why and when theymoved to UK.
Karen (03:49):
Yeah, of course.
So I was born in UK.
I lived there for six years.
My parents they weren't there.
They immigrated to UK from HongKong actually.
So they're originallyVietnamese, they're from Vietnam
, but then they went to HongKong.
They met in Hong Kong and fromHong Kong they signed up to
(04:10):
immigrate in these highdeveloping countries, including.
They had the choice to go toCanada, us or the UK, and in
this case they chose UK, okay,and they established their end
of the 80s and then my olderbrother was born and then I was
(04:32):
born thereafter and we stayedthere for until I was six, so
until 2001.
And from there I moved toCanada and I've been in Canada
ever since.
So in the UK actually, I thinkit's like my, it was my most
happiest times that I ever.
(04:53):
I think because naturally, asyou go older you become more
self-aware and then youencounter more problems and as
you go older you get moreresponsibility, so life becomes
more complicated.
As a child.
I feel like that's when youremember the best times of your
life because you're not worryingabout anything as children.
(05:13):
So I actually remember where Ilived.
I remember the studying of myhouse that I was living in.
I remember this convenientstore that we would go to and my
dad at the time he spoke goodEnglish.
Now he doesn't because hehasn't been using English as
(05:35):
much in his community or at hiswork, but at the time I think he
spoke decent English and he wascompensating with strangers.
There was a lot of immigrantsaround that time as well.
So I think both of my parentswere comfortable being out there
(05:56):
in society compared to now, andso I remember going to the
convenience store and then theowner there.
He, like I, was only like fouryears old at the time.
I think, but he picked me up andI don't know this man, but he
picked me up as if I was hischild and just talking to me.
I remember that so clearly.
And then I remember going tothe grocery store and going
(06:19):
through the ice cream aisle andthat scent of going into the
freezer section.
I remember so clearly thatevery time I go to the freezer
section or every time I smellthat I get that scent from the
freezer section.
It literally reminds me of thatgrocery store in UK back then,
so I honestly do have fondmemories when I did live in
(06:43):
England and I cherish themreally, really a lot, and I do
plan on going back eventuallyand visiting where I used to
live and just create some sortof memory or have something back
in England for myself once Iget older.
But, yeah, I do plan on wantingto stay there for maybe a month
(07:05):
, just to revisit London as agrown adult.
Gurasis (07:12):
So I'm very, very interesting Were there any
certain families or friends thatyou were visiting all the time?
Karen (07:21):
Yeah, so basically my parents chose the UK because at
the time my dad's brothers wereliving there and then my
mother's sister was living there, so my aunt and my uncles.
So we would visit them here andthere, but it was so far of a
drive, probably like 45 minutesof a drive, so we visit them
probably, I'd say, every twomonths or so, but I don't really
(07:47):
have fond memories of creatinga relationship with them.
I just remember, like showingup to their place and you know,
getting to know my cousins andeating there.
But I don't remember in detailswhat happened.
Gurasis (08:00):
Okay, and do you have any recollection of the earlier
education, your school or?
Karen (08:06):
anything?
Yeah, I actually do so.
When I, we lived in aneighborhood where the
elementary school was probablytwo blocks away and every single
morning my mom or my dad either, or they, would walk me and my
older brother to school, andevery single morning and I think
(08:27):
I was, I was I left when I wassix, so I guess I was in that
elementary school for like ayear and a half, two years
before- I came to Canada.
So we would go like they wouldwalk us to school, we would line
up and then I don't recall likewhat happened in class because
I was so young, but I do recallmaking like friends and like a
(08:48):
best friend there.
I remember her name.
It's just I don't remember herlast name.
I even which is funny, which isso funny but I try to look up
her last name, I think a monthago on Facebook.
I couldn't, I can't recall tothis day but her, her first name
.
I remember it so well.
But she was my best friend atthe time.
We were super close and Iremember me being part of a play
(09:11):
for like Christmas and Iremember like every morning we
would have breakfast, we wouldgo into this mini building next
to the elementary school.
We would all have breakfast alltogether and then go to the main
classroom.
That is the extent of what Iremember from elementary days.
Gurasis (09:32):
then Wow, still a lot of details.
You remember that's amazing.
Karen (09:36):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Okay, yeah, it was a good time.
Gurasis (09:43):
Of course I'm sure it is.
So tell us what influenced thefamily or what influenced the
decision of the family to moveto Canada.
Karen (09:52):
So the reason why we moved to Canada is because my
mom also has another brother, somy other uncle, who lives here.
She has two brothers actuallyhere in Canada, in Montreal at
the time, and they were wellestablished, her older brother,
so my uncle.
He was the most established outof my mother's family so he in
(10:19):
a way kind of convinced her andsupported her to come here and
so she decided to.
Even though we had my aunt overthere in the UK which is my
mom's sister, I think my momfelt more compelled to come to
Canada.
So my dad naturally was open toit as well.
(10:39):
So that's why we came to Canadaafterwards in 2001.
Gurasis (10:47):
And do you remember your first day, or does your
parents have any stories thatthey shared with you of the
first day or the initial daysthat you landed?
Karen (10:55):
Yeah, well, the first time I landed was it was just me
and my mom, and then my dad andmy brother would come later,
but it was me and my mom firstand I remember literally I was
entering the airport in Canada,montreal's airport, and then
(11:16):
obviously there's a lot ofpeople, like you know, welcoming
their relatives, right.
I think we had like 20 peoplewelcoming just me and my mom.
I was so shy.
Yeah, I had literally 20 peopleall my cousins, all my aunts
and uncles, everybody was thereand I was.
It was just they were welcomingjust me and my mom and I guess
it was an exciting time right Tolike have a relative who wants
(11:40):
to come and live with them, livein the same country.
So we were there were 20 people, just like, welcoming us.
And I remember walking, my momwas holding the cart with the
baggage, like just pushing it,and I was behind her and half my
face was shown because I wasshy.
I was so shy, there was so manypeople, I was so overwhelmed
(12:02):
and the first thing, the firstthing that happened when I
literally was introduced to them, was my uncle, my mom's oldest
brother.
He picked me up and he was sohappy to see me.
He picked me up and I wasscared, right.
I don't know who he was.
It was my first time seeing him.
I was scared, but I knew my momwas there, so obviously, like I
(12:22):
knew it was safe, even though Ididn't know who he was.
He picked me up and theneverybody like circled around me
and just wanted to like touchme and hug me and just
acknowledge me.
And then I think from then thatday on I don't remember like
what happened.
I know we went like to eat.
I remember my uncle, the first,I think, few months I was there
(12:44):
.
He brought me, he drove me toTim Hortons.
He told me that, Karen, you haveto try this.
This is the staple of Canada.
I'm like what is it?
He's like it's Tim Hortons.
I'm like, okay, so we,literally it was a field trip
going to Tim Hortons.
And you know what Tim Hortons?
You see it almost every corner,right?
Every corner, yeah, yeah, so hebrought, he drove, just me and
(13:08):
my brother to Tim Hortons andthat was like for him an
introduction to the Canadianculture.
Gurasis (13:16):
Of course.
Karen (13:17):
Yeah, so I remember vividly that trip.
Gurasis (13:20):
Wow, 20 people welcoming you on the airport.
That's incredible, I think weguys, when come here, I remember
me that I saw my cousins likethey came to visit me from
Toronto to Montreal, like Ithink 10 days after I landed,
and I was super happy to seejust those two people.
I can't even imagine how youwould be feeling with 20 people
(13:42):
welcoming you at the airport andthen you said that they all
were coming and hugging andkissing you and meeting you,
right?
Do you think you still havethat trauma with you that, oh my
God, who are these people?
So people are right there withyou?
Karen (13:54):
No, no Cause.
The thing is our family is sobig From that moment on we would
have like monthly gatherings,so I would see them so
frequently that it became secondnature to me to know who they
were.
And our family is pretty likeextensive, like you know.
You know your cousins.
(14:14):
You get your cousins spouses,their kids and everything.
So it's very, very big and yousee them on a monthly basis at
that time.
So I was very comfortable withthem.
Gurasis (14:24):
Soon after, so, speaking of that culture and
everything, of course, like theculture in the UK and Canada,
people might think it's similar,but obviously it's very
different, right, but tell us,like some of the aspects of,
like your new culturalexperience that you found most
surprising or different fromyour own, or even from the UK.
Karen (14:47):
I mean, of course, I was like pretty young when I left
the UK so I wasn't self awareenough to like make a
distinction of what the kind ofculture it was.
But looking back, I thinkpeople in Montreal are a lot
more welcoming to differentnationalities.
In the area that I was livingin the UK it was more like
(15:10):
mainly I don't know if this ispolitically correct to say, but
it was a lot of brown people,pakistani, of course it's
correct.
Gurasis (15:18):
You're all brown.
Karen (15:21):
So yeah, a lot of brown people, a lot of Asian in that
community and there wasn't anyother race that I would see that
where I was living in the UK.
Gurasis (15:29):
Okay.
Karen (15:30):
I mean, of course there's like Caucasian right, but it
was predominantly Indian, brown,pakistani people and then a mix
of Asian.
But mostly like I was, mostly Iwas mostly introduced to like
brown people.
So coming here in Canada, likeI saw more different cultures,
(15:50):
different cultures, like we seeAfrican American culture, we see
more Caucasians, we see friendthe language top of that.
So I think in terms of cultureit's more spread, it's more
diversified in.
Montreal than in UK.
I mean I might be wrong If I goback to UK.
(16:11):
It might be the kind of thesimilar culture and of course
the language with the accent.
I mean this accent is differentbut because I kind of knew
English then for me it wasn'thard to understand English here.
It was just my accent thatchanged, because as children you
kind of pick up on a lot ofdifferent things.
Gurasis (16:33):
Absolutely.
Karen (16:33):
And so I naturally lost my British accent, but, and so I
have this more Canadian accentliving here.
Gurasis (16:42):
Can you still do that British accent though?
Yeah, I can still do it.
So earlier, when you weretalking about your life in the
UK, I just picked on this onepoint I want to circle back
again on.
You said that your father usedto use English a lot back then,
but it doesn't use it enough now.
Tell us what did you mean bythat?
Karen (17:04):
So back then we didn't have not, to my knowledge, there
wasn't a big community ofVietnamese people that my
parents were integrated in orthey were part of.
They didn't know who to reachout or how to reach to these
Vietnamese community, or theyweren't in need of it at the
time, but I think they were inthe mindset of exploring and
(17:27):
being more adventurous and veryin a state of, not in a state,
but they were more in a placewhere they were uncomfortable so
they had to like get out thereto find solutions to resolve
issues.
So there were more, I would say, outgoing.
Now, moving here, where we havea lot more, even though we did
(17:48):
have family back in the UK, morefamily and more support in
Montreal, in Canada, montreal.
So because of that, theyalready these support systems.
So basically, my relatives, theyalready have these Vietnamese
communities built and so theyintegrated my parents into it
and naturally my parents feltmore comfortable with these
(18:11):
communities and started to hangout around these communities
that spoke just Vietnamese andso naturally they found jobs
through these people and so theydidn't feel the need to venture
out on their own, becausethey're no longer on their own
as much compared to the UK.
So being integrated in thesecommunities allowed them to feel
(18:34):
more comfortable in the skinand probably reminded them of
their home country and for thatreason I think they got used to
it.
And my dad didn't feel the needto use the English language as
much because he already found ajob through these relatives, and
these relatives they speak inthat, in Vietnamese at their job
(18:55):
.
So he didn't feel the need touse English.
So naturally, when you don'tuse a language or you don't use
anything in general, you kind oflose that skill set over time.
Gurasis (19:05):
That's really fascinating for me to know,
because I think all this timeI've heard stories where people
have integrated into the societyand they just because Punjabi
is widely spoken here and there.
Just what I thought.
But this is very fascinating toknow that even Vietnamese is
also spoken and there is jobsand work in the same language as
(19:25):
well.
Karen (19:26):
Yes, yes, there is, and I think it's a good thing.
That's why it's good to alwaysbe part of communities, because
you learn a lot and you getnetworking.
But it also puts you kind of ina box when you feel comfortable
.
Gurasis (19:41):
Oh yeah.
Karen (19:42):
So I think it's always a balance.
I find so in the case of myparents.
They got used to it and theydidn't feel the need to use
English and then, as I grewolder me and my brother as their
kids we would be their maintranslator for things if they
did need help.
Gurasis (20:00):
Yeah, and you also said that your mother was also more
comfortable to go out back thenin Yooka and integrate in the
society.
Do you would say like this isone of those reasons that she
doesn't go out too much now?
Karen (20:13):
Yeah, but she is better because if she was better, she's
better than us.
She didn't know, she was, Iguess, wanted to be adventurous
and she would walk us to school,she would talk to these parents
here and there and sheapparently knew English super
well.
She learned it back in HongKong and she used it a lot more
in the UK and I guess there wasno Vietnamese communities that
(20:37):
was created for her at the time,so she didn't.
She had to use the otherlanguage that she knows, which
was English.
So same kind of concept as mydad, and so when she came to
Montreal Canada again, we havethese communities she became
more comfortable with them anddidn't feel the need to use
(20:59):
English.
Gurasis (21:01):
And what about the kids ?
Was it like an intentionaleffort to instill the Vietnamese
language or you just picked itup in the house?
Karen (21:08):
So my parents wanted me to go to Vietnamese school,
meaning we went to this languageschool once a week and it
started from grade one to grade,I think, seven or eight, and in
my case, me and my brother wewent to that school for up until
(21:30):
grade six, and so it was aweekly thing and I was excelling
in that school.
I don't know why, but I reallyput in effort to make sure I get
100% in those written tests orverbal tests, and I was
(21:51):
excelling in that, in that inVietnamese school, and from
there I'm thankful that I didlearn it.
But you will actually see a lotof not kids, a lot of adults my
age, around my age, who areVietnamese.
A portion of them don't knowVietnamese as well because they
(22:14):
either never went to school orparents didn't really speak that
language too much to them atthe time.
But my parents, because I wentto Vietnamese school, I can read
, write and understandVietnamese fluently.
So, yeah, that's how I learnedVietnamese.
(22:35):
And then my parents just speakto me in Vietnamese, right, they
don't speak English or French.
So that's how I also get toupkeep this language.
Gurasis (22:44):
It's so great that these immigrant does make that
effort to instill that languageand, for example, in your case,
they asked you to go to theschool and learn the language.
This is really nice just tokeep the language intact and
still present within the family,and I'm sure you will sort of
do the same thing to your nextgenerations as well, because I
do speak to a few immigrants andI think everybody I've spoken
(23:07):
to so far on the podcastEverybody, literally everybody
has made that effort to instilltheir respective languages in
their children and that is, Ithink, definitely the thing to
do.
Karen (23:18):
Yes, I totally agree.
I would totally do it when oneday I have kids, but my younger
brother.
So I have a younger brother andhe my parents didn't instill it
in him to go to Vietnameseschool, so he didn't go to
Vietnamese school.
So he doesn't know the languageas well as I did at his age,
(23:39):
okay, but he does learn itthrough my parents, who speak to
him in Vietnamese, but he's notas fluent or as oh, he can't
write or he can't readVietnamese.
So it really depends on theparenting style and what the
parents want from the kids overtime.
Gurasis (23:59):
So let's just talk a little bit about the cultural
celebrations and traditions thatwere their parents making that
effort to celebrate alloccasions, all festivals Like.
In our case, I think wecelebrate, for example, the
Diwali, which is like a majorfestival, indian festival we
have, and many other religious,small, small occasions.
(24:19):
We also celebrate your family,also growing up in your family
for many years.
What are they doing that aswell?
Karen (24:26):
Yeah, so we were celebrating, like we would have
monthly gatherings just to likehang out and chill, but there
were like main events that wouldhappen, so like Chinese New
Year's, for example, even thoughit's called.
Chinese but I'm Vietnamese.
But we celebrate Chinese NewYear.
That would be like the biggestevent of the year and we would
(24:47):
celebrate it within our family.
I think those are like.
I think that's one of the mainholidays that we celebrate.
I can't recall anything elsethat's major.
But we do celebrate likebirthdays and like, I guess,
christmas.
You know those regular holidays, canadian holidays, we do
(25:07):
celebrate them, but not itdoesn't.
We don't put as much importanceas to like Chinese New Year's,
for example.
Gurasis (25:16):
Okay, and is there like a particular tradition or maybe
even like a festival, apartfrom you know, the Chinese New
Year that you have preservedwith yourself, that you have
like adopted that or somethingthat is like close to you, for
example, anything, maybe like atraditional attire, maybe like a
certain cuisine or certain food, anything that you really find
(25:41):
really close to you From myculture?
Karen (25:44):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the food like I cook Vietnamese
food and I know how to cook it,and the fact that I'm able to I
know the language and Iunderstand it I can like look up
recipes and understand whatthey're saying and find more
ancient, sick, like harderrecipes to make.
(26:05):
So I think that's one thingthat I kind of picked up and
will always keep within me to,because the thing is, when we
have these monthly gatherings,all the women would be in the
kitchen and just cook togetherand it'd be that way their way
of socializing and makeconnections.
Gurasis (26:25):
And it would be the authentic Vietnamese food.
Karen (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, authentic Vietnamese food, and they would
just literally chit chat whilecooking and their way of
celebrating the culture on amonthly basis, and so I feel
like food is what brings peopletogether in any setting.
So I find knowing Vietnamesefood and knowing how it's cooked
(26:49):
and what's required will besomething that I will always
keep in my culture and bringforward to my kids.
Gurasis (27:00):
Have you ever visited back in Vietnam?
Karen (27:03):
Yes, I have, and the last time was in 2004.
So a while.
Gurasis (27:09):
Wow, that's a long time ago.
Karen (27:11):
Yeah, that's a long long time ago.
But, yeah, I do love it when Igo back, but I like to go back
in a big family setting, so,like the entire family.
And it's been harder to makethat happen in the past few
years.
So for that reason I haven'tgone back and I don't want to go
(27:32):
back like with me and friends.
You know.
I want to go back with myentire family and celebrate and
be together and reignite thatculture, that Vietnamese culture
, and understand the familybackground more, but together as
a family, rather than going bymyself and discover on my own.
Gurasis (27:51):
Yeah, you were mentioning that.
You know your mom's siblings.
You said your aunt was in theUK, your uncles are in Montreal.
So do you have any family leftback in Vietnam or everybody is
just living abroad in there?
Karen (28:07):
No, we do have.
I think we have one or two ofmy uncles and aunts actually no
more than that.
Sorry, I just have so many thatI can't keep up.
Like, on my dad's side there'ssix siblings and then my mom's
side there's they're also sixsiblings.
So I have cousins still inVietnam, I have cousins in
Canada, I have cousins in the UK.
(28:28):
So we still have family in theUK, Canada and Vietnam.
Gurasis (28:34):
Okay, is there something, karen you, something
that people don't know aboutVietnam or the Vietnamese
culture, that you would like toshare with us?
Karen (28:44):
I mean I think we all know this, but Vietnamese people
in the, in the cost, in the waythat I was brought up, we are
very, very hardworking.
I mean I know everybody is toan extent, but we don't give up
and so we are very, veryhardworking and we always make
(29:05):
sure that we are aligned from afamily point of view.
So we are very family oriented,community, very community
oriented I don't know that's aword, but we're very focused on
that and hardworking at whateverwe put our energy into.
Gurasis (29:26):
And it's also like a collectivistic society, right.
Karen (29:30):
Yes, yes, in the way that I was brought up.
Yes.
Gurasis (29:35):
Brought up.
Yeah, yeah, Okay, Awesome.
So let's just talk a little bitabout the.
You know the family dynamicsand the.
So the experience I have had,you know, speaking to Indians,
more specifically the Punjabifirst generation immigrants, I
get to hear this a lot, that ourparents are still stuck in the
(29:56):
air, the left India, the leftPunjab and they had not outgrown
that certain ideologies.
Tell us if you have had anycertain experiences growing up.
Karen (30:08):
I can tell you a recent one, okay, I think in my
experience.
So my parents, they got marriedat like 20, super young, and
then they got kids early 20s,no-transcript.
At this age that I'm at, Ishould be married.
(30:29):
According to them, according totheir culture, I should have
kids by now, you know.
So I think their mentality isoh, why aren't you married at
this age?
What happened?
What's wrong with you?
But I don't take offense to it.
I get it because that's howthey were brought up, like
everybody around their age gotmarried at the same time.
(30:53):
So for them to see this moreWesternized, more modern way of
living is different.
They ask me here and there, butI don't pay attention to it
because it is my path, it is myjourney, it is my way of living
and I'm content with thedecisions I make.
But for sure it's in the backof their head Like they're
(31:15):
probably worried why I'm notmarried.
But I will know in due time itwill happen.
Gurasis (31:23):
So I'm not worried about that.
Yeah, I think that's prettycommon.
Again, one of the conversationsI have with many people around
my age are very rich, and Ithink all those South Asian
communities also, and then youare sharing our example as well.
This is a common conversation.
I think times are gone when youare supposed to get married at
(31:44):
like 20 and have children by 23and then another child by 25 and
then just wait for retirement.
Those days are gone, I thinkalso because we millennials
especially Karen got exposed toso much.
Our parents can't even fathomthe fact there's something
(32:04):
called internet.
Back then, probably, andespecially in my parents, I
would say I'm the youngest inthe family and my sisters
actually I have two sisters andthey got married at the age of
like early 20 sometime and theyalways do question me as well
and I'm like come on, gone arethose days.
It's not the norm anymore andit will happen when it's due.
(32:28):
You can't force these things tohappen anymore.
So I can totally, totallyrelate with you.
Karen (32:34):
Yeah, can I ask you something?
Sure, do you ever get pressuredover time?
Do you still feel pressuredfrom these questions or you're
indifferent?
Gurasis (32:43):
Well, I don't think so I'm indifferent.
I think I do get pressurized aswell, because these are common
questions, right?
I think all my friends alsokind of are asked these
questions and it's hard tosometimes, you know, explain the
parents as well that what issomething which is holding me
back and it's not.
It's, you know, like I think wehave had discussions earlier as
(33:06):
well I think it's it's not thetime right now.
We have things to do, we havethings to figure out, and it
will happen at its due time.
You can't force these things tohappen just because everybody's
doing it.
You don't have to do it, it'sokay.
It will happen whenever it'ssupposed to.
There's a right time foreverything.
So, yeah, I think I do havethat banter with my parents at
(33:27):
times, but at the same time, Ithink I'll I'll acknowledge
their understanding because theydo understand me and they do
understand that, okay, fine, we,we know that it will happen its
own time and we can't ask thesame question a hundred times,
you know.
So I think they are alsoevolving, but I think I've said
it multiple times on the podcastthat they are the product of
(33:49):
their own time and they just tryto do what they were taught or
they have seen whole life, andit's very difficult to change
their ideologies in which theyhave grown up.
So, yeah, that's how I wouldanswer that.
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(34:12):
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Now let's get back to theepisode.
So let's just talk about.
You know your education,obviously, and a little bit
about the career path, and youwere telling me that when you
came here, you had to go to afriend's school, even though
(35:16):
your parents were anglophone.
Actually, I did a little bit ofresearch and also, like, spoke
to somebody and they told methat if you are anglophone, you
are allowed to go to an Englishschool.
So I'm not sure what was thenorm back then when you came
that you, either one of yourparents were anglophone, but you
still had to go to the friend'sschool.
So tell us about that time.
(35:36):
And you're also telling me thatyou also feel the very first
grade.
Tell us about that time.
Karen (35:42):
Yeah, so the reason why I had to go learn French is
because I don't.
My parents did not go to anEnglish speaking school.
They didn't go to school.
So they because it didn't foryou to go to an English school
here in Montreal at the time,your parents either you have to
(36:03):
either be born in Canada or yourparents have to go to have had
to go to an English speakingschool in order for you to go in
order to you to enter anEnglish school.
So, I was neither.
I was straight up an immigrantinto Canada, so I was.
I had to be put into a Frenchschool and actually for the
(36:27):
first month I did go to anEnglish school and we did try it
.
But the thing is, I guess myparents weren't too
knowledgeable about the rules,but I did go to English
elementary school and I wasthere for a month and a half and
they kicked me out.
Yeah, I mean, they didn'tliterally kick me out, they
literally they just packed up mystuff and they said buy to me.
(36:47):
I didn't know what that meantand I told my parents, like I
said they gave me all my schoolstuff.
But why did they do that?
Like why did the school do that?
Yeah Well, because they're notallowed to like host immigrants
who don't, who didn't haveparents who went to English
school.
It was like against the law tohave kids.
It was against the law.
Like I think my parents justput me into an English school
(37:09):
without knowing the rules andregulations at the time and then
, as I got enrolled in the firstmonth, that's when we all
realized that I was not doingthe not legal student being in
the English school.
So they kicked me out.
Nicely, they kicked me outnicely, and then I went into
(37:31):
French elementary school and Ihad to restart.
I did first grade and secondgrade in Aikari.
Aikari would in French, inEnglish, would be like a
welcoming class where they wouldhost students who don't know,
who have trouble knowing knowingor learning French, or had more
(37:53):
difficulties to learn the newlanguage.
So I was put in Aikari, thefirst and second grade, first
grade I.
The thing is when you, whenyou're in Aikari first grade, if
you pass then you go intoregular second grade.
But because in a way I wasn'tgood enough, I kind of failed,
(38:15):
in that sense, first grade andthen I went to Aikari, second
grade, and then when I finishedthe Aikari second grade I was
put into regular second grade.
So I didn't even go up to thirdgrade, regular I went to.
I basically failed my secondgrade essentially.
So failing that I don't thinkit really made an impact to me
(38:40):
at the time because I guess as achild you don't, you just you
know, you just try to pass andgo on to the next level.
But, looking back, I think itwas a good thing.
I mean, I'm grateful forwhatever happened to get me to
where I am now, but I justrecall making a lot of friends
(39:01):
in that welcome in that Aikariclass and then being feeling
more comfortable than, say, likein a regular class, because we
all had the same struggles in away.
And so we had these obstaclesthat we had to get together and
try to surpass them together.
And even though we don't speakthe same language there was like
(39:23):
multiple differentnationalities in that classroom
Even though we don't know thesame language our aim, our goal
was the same, which is to getbetter in French.
So I think in a sense I feltmore belonged.
I felt belonged in that setting, in that Aikari class.
But afterwards, you know, Ifelt more comfortable knowing
(39:47):
French.
But that was the time that Ifelt the most belonged and most
comfortable at that age.
Gurasis (39:53):
Okay, Do you?
Are you friends with anybodystill from that class?
Karen (39:58):
Actually I am friends with one person, Okay, but I
don't think she recalls that wewent to that same class.
No, no, did I ever brought itup?
But we're friends but we don'tsee each other that often, maybe
once every three years, Okay.
Gurasis (40:14):
But after that, when you got into your third grade,
you were also telling me thatyou were not comfortable
speaking to your classmates.
Tell us about that, why.
Karen (40:21):
So I think in elementary school it wasn't made aware to
me that I was uncomfortable withFrench.
It was only in high school thatit was made aware to me that I
felt uncomfortable speakingFrench.
So in elementary I was likejust doing my course, I was not
doing well in French classes butI still, you know, put in
(40:43):
effort and stuff and thankfullypass and went into high school.
And then going into high school, that's when you meet different
people, different classes.
You meet like I don't know 400students right In the same grade
as you in high school, fromdifferent like class, from
different like ethnicity anddifferent Different interests.
(41:05):
You meet like so many students.
And so over time I kind ofbecame uncomfortable speaking
French because I had an accentMeaning I had an accent and I
also had to find my words a lotin French compared to English.
So going to high school I wascomfortable in English but I was
uncomfortable speaking French.
And so, being uncomfortablespeaking French, I didn't reach
(41:30):
out to, I wasn't socializingwith students as much.
I was more in my corner bychoice and I felt comfortable
being in my corner.
And sometimes my classmateswould think that I just don't
like them because I'm nottalking to them but little do
they know is because I feel shyand embarrassed of my accent, of
(41:55):
having to find my words Can'tbe as smooth as other people
comparing myself to how theyspeak French.
I was not.
I didn't have the highest selfconfidence to speak French and
for that reason I retreated inhigh school a lot.
Gurasis (42:11):
Back then they thought you were Karen, way before the
concept of Karen came in.
Yeah, yeah, literally.
Karen (42:17):
And, honestly, when I look back then, friends that I
made in high school, the closestones are the ones that were
very either understood Englishwell or conversated with me in
English here and there, oraccepted me speaking English
here and there over time.
Like, sometimes I would speakin English or some words would
(42:39):
come out in English and some ofthe students in high school
would kind of not be acceptingof it, or they would just find
it weird that I would or theywouldn't understand what I'm
saying, so I would need tochange my language in order for
them to understand.
So, yeah, most of my friendsfrom high school are those that
either really I communicated inEnglish most of the time, or
(43:03):
they understood my languagebarrier, or they made me feel
comfortable that it is okay tohave a French accent.
Gurasis (43:12):
And you also mentioned earlier that that a K class you
know where you were learningFrench was the only time you
felt belonged than ever.
Tell us like why would you saythat?
That I think you are living inMontreal from 20 years.
I believe more than 20 yearsactually, but you still think
you felt belonged then and notnow.
Why would you say that?
Karen (43:33):
Well, not that I don't feel belonged now, but I think
the most time that that was atime where I felt vividly like
there was no problems in theworld.
I felt the most at peace atthat age.
So when that was first grade,second grade, first second grade
so I was probably like earlyteens yeah, no, actually, no,
(43:55):
that was actually maybe likeunder 10, under 10.
Yeah, under 10, essentiallyunder 10.
But because, again, I wasn'tself-aware enough.
I didn't have these issuesgrowing up as an adult.
So the only issue I had wasgoing to school, making sure I
was fed and making friends, andall those requirements for me at
the age was fulfilled.
(44:16):
So I felt belonged in thatsense, and that's not to say, oh
, I don't feel belonged now, butfor sure I didn't have whatever
responsibilities and roles andissues that I encountered today
at that age.
So I do feel belonged now, butnot as strongly as I was then
(44:40):
because of the self-awarenessthat I have acquired over time.
Gurasis (44:45):
Okay, so what is something you think is sort of
missing, or like a missing piece, which will make you feel more
belonged?
Or maybe do you think there arecertain practice that you have
to follow, then that will makeyou feel more belonged.
Karen (45:00):
There is.
No, I don't think there'll beanything that will make me feel
more belonged.
I think in the past I thinkfive years or so I've become
more self-aware and I heard thissaying that this was like five
years ago, but I heard it and itkind of resonates.
It still resonates to me tothis day and the saying is you
(45:23):
belong wherever you go.
So I kind of kept thatmentality and so wherever in an
uncomfortable situation ornetworking events, for example,
where you have to be outspokenand get yourself out there.
I still I tell myself I belong,even though I know I don't.
(45:45):
I know it's hard to integrate,but I tell myself I belong
wherever I go, meaning I amcomfortable with my skin and
with the skills that I have, andthe way that.
I am as a person, I can makemyself know that.
Gurasis (46:05):
I belong.
Karen (46:07):
Kind of brainwash myself that I belong and I feel
comfortable doing that.
How does that make sense?
Absolutely.
Gurasis (46:14):
I think that's very true.
I like what you said, that thisis all in your mind.
We feel that we don't belong incertain situations or, for
example, getting hired at anagency and you feel like, oh, am
I like a diversity hire, forexample, but it's not you
actually belong.
They really have to in adialogue with yourself that it's
(46:34):
you who is stopping you fromreally feeling accepted and it's
you who's going to help you tofeel more belong.
It's all in your mind, exactlyAll in your mind.
Karen (46:44):
You have to let go of that fear that again, me not
being comfortable speakingFrench.
So when I was in high school Ihave a friend, a classmate
actually.
He said at the end of our yearwhen we were graduating.
He said, karen, you neverreally liked me.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
He's like because you neverspeak, you never talk to me.
I'm like, no, we talk but wedon't have conversations.
(47:07):
And then I thought deep backinto it.
I'm like well, I don't makeconversations with him because
he I don't feel comfortablespeaking French.
And so, knowing that I didn'tfeel the need to explain it to
him why he felt like I didn'tlike him, because I already knew
I was comfortable in my skin inthat moment that me not
(47:29):
speaking French is how I feel,like I could belong in that
environment.
Gurasis (47:35):
Talk us a little bit about your career choice Also,
because I have this questionthat you know we South Asians
are asked to follow, like acertain career path growing up,
oh, you have to be a doctor,engineer, lawyer, etc.
Was there like a similarconversation in your families
that you have to follow acertain path?
Karen (47:54):
Yeah, for sure For me, we .
They wanted us to be like alawyer doctor engineer not less
engineer at the time, but yeah,very high, like high paying jobs
or high rewarding jobs tosociety.
But so what I did over time isthat when I was entering college
(48:21):
so CJEP, which is after highschool, they you have to choose
if you want to go into likescience or business, and I chose
science for the first semesterand I got into science in CJEP
and the first semester.
I hated it and it was a battlebetween what I wanted and what
(48:44):
my parents wanted.
And again, I chose business, andI felt so much more at peace
making that decision, and I knewthat, no matter how mad they
would be or they or unsupportedthey would be, I knew that that
was the best route for me.
So they weren't mad at me forchoosing that, though, but you
(49:06):
know they want the best for youat the end of the day, and their
best, their knowledge of whatis best for you, is having the
highest paying job or the best,the most rewarding job, which,
in this case, would be doctor orlawyer or some sort, but not in
business right.
In terms of career, I knew fromCJEP that I would be in business
(49:26):
and I would stay in businessand they've never kind of
questioned me from that pointforward because I think my
decision making was so secure inmyself.
I showed that I was so securein that decision that that made
them feel comfortable and notquestion if my decision was
wrong or right.
Gurasis (49:47):
Yeah, and you also worked at a bank for some time,
right?
Karen (49:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So I worked at a bank for fouryears part time and then
sometime full time in the summer.
But I worked in finance and Ireally liked it as a part time
job.
But over time I knew because Iwasn't studying business finance
, I was studying businessmarketing.
So I knew finance was just agood to have on my resume and it
(50:16):
was a good knowledge.
But I knew it wasn't mydepartment, it would be mostly
marketing.
Gurasis (50:23):
And that's why you transitioned into advertising.
Karen (50:26):
Yes.
So I knew I always lovedbusiness, but I'm also creative
as well as an individual.
So I wanted to mix business andcreative.
And what does that entail?
So under business there'sfinance, accounting, btm, so
business technology management,and then supply chain, and then
(50:49):
you have marketing Underbusiness.
What is the most suited for me?
I chose marketing right off thebat and I stuck with it, and I
knew I wanted to work at anagency start as my first career.
So for that reason I enteredthe agency life and I'm doing
(51:10):
pharmaceutical advertising.
Gurasis (51:15):
Okay, kaden.
So I just want to talk verybriefly before we get into the
final segment, about thecross-cultural friendships.
You have grown up here.
You have met people from allcultures from around the world
Canada that's the best thingabout Canada.
Tell me how this cross-culturalfriendships has contributed to
you.
Maybe again I want to use theword it has contributed to your
(51:37):
sense of belonging, or how ithas helped you just in your
personal growth.
Karen (51:41):
So these calls across cultural friendships have
allowed me to be morecomfortable with French actually
.
So these friends that I've met,they speak either just English
or just French or both, andsometimes they would speak both
language in one sentence and sonaturally I, to kind of connect
(52:07):
with them, I would do the same.
So over time it made mecomfortable to switch from
English to French in like a fewseconds.
And getting to know theirculture and their way of living
is similar to me because I wouldsay most of my friends are
either Asian or their differentrace.
I kind of got to know differentcultures and understand that we
(52:30):
kind of relate to each otherfrom an immigrant perspective
and that made me feelcomfortable in my skin to be
around them and also be moreopen-minded when they have
issues in their culture, intheir tradition and how they
overcome it and how they portrayit to their family and friends.
(52:51):
I learned from that and I get tobasically acknowledge what
their issues are and then givemy advice from my perspective
and create a relationshipstronger, make bonds out of it
and I think, in that sense,being open-minded, they allow me
to be open-minded.
Eventually, these cost culturalfriendships that I have and
(53:16):
being open-minded, I think it'sthe best way to integrate into
society.
Gurasis (53:24):
Yeah.
Karen (53:24):
Because if you're closed-minded then you'll just
reject everything that does notalign to your values, and I
think you have to be open-mindedto know that there are so many
different things out there todiscover, and there will always
be things to discover as long asyou are open-hearted and
(53:45):
open-minded to it.
Gurasis (53:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree with you.
I think the reason today, youand me somebody who has the
roots of Vietnam and somebodywho is from India is now sitting
together and talking today isonly and only because we are
open-minded and we took thatstep to really integrate into
(54:08):
different cultures and knowabout each other.
And I think that's the bestthing about Canada as well,
where you can find people fromall around the world and it's
fascinating to know about theircultures.
And also it's the most amazingthing to know that there are so
many similarities betweendifferent cultures.
And I think I have connectedwith so many people only and
(54:30):
only on the basis of theconversations what?
How parents talk to us, or someconversations about the food,
or, like in my case, I love myIndian spices, so it's about
Indian spices, is there?
All this has really connectedme with the people from all
around the world, and I can't bemore thankful to Canada for
(54:51):
such an enriching experience.
Karen (54:53):
Yeah, yeah, and I love that that you said that, because
same I feel so grateful that Iwas able to meet you and these
friends and have built thisrelationship, and that has
allowed me to become so invitingas a person and feel more
belonging and allow people tofeel that they belong, no matter
(55:14):
where they are.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, we loveCanada.
We do.
Gurasis (55:24):
Okay, keryan.
So now we're in the finalsegment of the podcast.
I call it Beneath the Accent.
I'm going to ask you a coupleof questions.
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or however you
feel like.
The idea is just to know moreabout you, so ready.
Karen (55:37):
Yes.
Gurasis (55:40):
So what's the best piece of advice someone ever
gave you?
Karen (55:44):
I think it's not a piece of advice that's from somebody.
I think it's a collective ofthoughts that were given to me
and I kind of put it together Isto have boundaries, be kind, be
(56:04):
open-minded, communicate andalways listen to your heart.
I mean, some people would sayit's not always good to listen
to your heart at all times, butat the end of the day, I guess,
listen to your gut feeling.
There is no right or wrong whenyou do that.
(56:27):
I guess, like I've neveractually really got a piece of
advice from somebody.
I would say it's more from likelistening, from like different
podcasts and from yourobservations.
Yeah, observations that I kindof collected these common advice
(56:48):
.
Gurasis (56:49):
Yeah, okay, you said something about you know follow
your heart.
That that also something I seeon the podcast all the time that
I encourage you to follow yourheart, but also us on Instagram.
The handle is my take accent,so all the listeners do follow
us on Instagram as well.
Karen (57:04):
Yes, follow, follow, follow, follow.
Gurasis (57:06):
Oh, thank you.
Okay, is there any worst advice, karen, that someone ever gave
you?
Karen (57:11):
I don't think there's any worse advice.
I think any advice is good,depending on how you take it.
But I would say, from listeningto these advices that I've
gotten, I could say that I thinkone of my friends did say at
some point, like don't alwayslisten to, don't always take all
(57:31):
opinions to heart.
It's not.
It's not personal, it'sbusiness.
Gurasis (57:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Karen (57:40):
And I took that to heart because I take a lot of things
personally, but over time I keptsaying that to myself and so I
don't take.
So the saying is it's notpersonal, it's business.
Gurasis (57:52):
Business.
Karen (57:54):
So no, take taking that advice in.
I think it's good, because thenyou become neutral to
everything that's being said toyou.
You take it in but you don'ttake it personally and you know
that it's coming from their bestof interest in that time that
they gave it to you withinformation that they have.
So, whatever they say, don'ttake it personal, not saying
(58:18):
it's all business, but don'ttake it personally.
Gurasis (58:20):
essentially, yeah, yeah , perfect, I like that.
Is there something you recentlybought and you're now regret?
Karen (58:27):
Okay, Probably a shirt that I bought.
I bought a shirt for like thissummer and it's pink because you
know how the movie Barbie cameout right.
Gurasis (58:36):
Yeah.
Karen (58:37):
So somehow I was just so into pink and I never wear pink.
I'm a very like, neutral kindof person, like I wear a lot of
black and white, neutral colors.
So this shirt I bought.
I never worn it.
I guess that's one thing Iregret, but like it's even then,
it's not even a regret.
It's like it's something Idon't use to its fullest
potential.
Gurasis (58:54):
Okay.
So what's the most expensivething?
You own Probably my MacBook.
So what's the most expensivething?
You would like to buy A newphone for now, okay.
So what's next on your bucketlist, kieran.
Karen (59:07):
Getting a promotion.
Gurasis (59:08):
Okay, good luck with that, thank you.
So who's your go-to person whenyou feel stuck?
Karen (59:16):
I have this friend that I go to when I feel stuck and she
listens to me when I haveproblems and she tries to
decipher the issue by asking medeep questions.
Gurasis (59:27):
Okay, are there any movies that you like to watch
over and over?
Karen (59:30):
again.
There is one, but I don't eveneven then I don't watch it often
.
It's Toy Story, toy Story.
You know, toy Story?
Yeah, yeah, toy Story, toyStory.
1, 2, 3, 4.
Gurasis (59:41):
Okay.
Karen (59:42):
Yeah, the Disney movie.
That's one thing that I wouldwatch again, if you could have
one superpower.
Gurasis (59:48):
what would it be To be invisible?
For some reason?
I was expecting this to comefrom you, oh, really.
Karen (59:55):
Yeah, how come.
Gurasis (59:58):
Maybe it's the introvertness of yours that kind
of gave me a hint that it'scoming, it's coming.
Karen (01:00:06):
Yes, you thought right.
Gurasis (01:00:07):
So, Karen, if you had to create this one law that
everybody has to follow, whatwould it be?
Karen (01:00:12):
I think it would be accept people for who they are
and give them grace, give thempatience, give yourself patience
and know that at the end of theday, as long as we are on the
same page and we are together asa community, everything will
turn out okay.
(01:00:33):
Not sure that could be a law,love that Mic drop.
Gurasis (01:00:37):
I would say I love that , Thank you.
So describe Canada in one wordor a sentence.
Karen (01:00:44):
Canada is welcoming.
Gurasis (01:00:47):
So finally, Karen, if you could leave me with one
piece of advice, what would itbe?
Karen (01:00:53):
I would say probably it was repeated throughout this
recording.
Gurasis (01:00:59):
Sure.
Karen (01:01:00):
But have boundaries.
Listen to your gut.
Never give up on yourself.
Give yourself patience andgrace and time to be the best
version of yourself.
Gurasis (01:01:13):
Okay, love that.
So, finally, how would youdescribe your experience of
being on this podcast?
Karen (01:01:21):
I loved it.
I mean, you know we alreadyspeak as friends at work, as
colleagues as well, but this wasvery exciting and I am super
honored to have like even gethere, to get to this point with
you and, honestly, I am so proudof even though we've only known
(01:01:43):
each other for so little likeI'm so proud of what you've
accomplished and have done andthe way like how outgoing you
are and the way you integrateconversations with people and
how you get people together justby doing this podcast, and I
think it's brave and I thinkit's admirable and I'm super
grateful to have met you.
Gurasis (01:02:04):
Likewise, Karen, Super grateful to you, know come
across you in this Canadianjourney of mine.
So thank you.
Thank you so much, Karen, forbeing on the podcast, all your
kind words and adding value tomy listeners.
Thank you.
Karen (01:02:17):
Thank you so much.
Gurasis (01:02:19):
Hey listener, Thank you for making it to the end.
I highly highly appreciate youlistening to the podcast.
Subscribe to the podcast if youhaven't as yet, and please
share with your friends oranybody you think would like it.
Karen (01:02:32):
And like.
Gurasis (01:02:33):
I always say we encourage you to follow your
heart, but also ask.
On Instagram, handle is .
You can also leave us a reviewor write to us at
Hello@mythickaccent.
com.
So stay tuned and let'scontinue knowing each other
beneath the accent.
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're listening to My
Thick Accent Podcast.
So on this podcast, we haveinvited all kinds of people
(00:21):
belonging to various culturesand roles and domains, each with
their unique stories that haveleft us inspired and intrigued.
Today, however, we are about toembark on a journey into the
perspective that holds a worldof its own the first generation
immigrant experience.
In a tapestry woven with dreams, challenges and the courage to
(00:41):
forge a new path, our guesttoday brings us a story that
reflects the vibrant hues of afirst generation immigrant's
life, stepping across borders,cultures and languages.
Her narrative sheds light onthe unique blend of heritage and
hope that defines the journeyof those who venture to call a
new land home.
We'll uncover the intricatelayers of her background, the
(01:03):
echoes of her roots and theaspirations that led her family
to a new horizon.
Join us as we explore thetrials and triumphs of carving
and identity amidst the tapestryof diversity.
Through her lens, we learnabout the nuances of navigating
language, tradition and thebalance between heritage and
newfound belonging, as sheshares the vibrant mosaic that
(01:24):
defines her path as a firstgeneration immigrant.
Please welcome Karen.
Karen (01:30):
Hello Gurasis, Thank you for having me.
What an introduction.
I am impressed.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Karen and I am superhappy to be here to talk with
you and discuss on everything"First generation immigration.
Gurasis (01:50):
Awesome.
Welcome to the podcast, Karen.
I must tell my listeners thatshe's not the classic Karen.
I've had the opportunity toknow her, you know, I think from
past many months now.
We have had variousconversations and it's always
been a pleasure talking to you.
So welcome to the podcast.
Karen (02:07):
Thank you, I'm very excited to be here.
Gurasis (02:10):
Okay, so so I asked Karen, some of my guests, this
question that what is this onehabit they adopted that has
changed their life, or somethingthat has become their second
nature?
Karen (02:22):
Oh, wow, this really good question.
What have I adopted?
I think just being kind.
Maybe that's a weird answer,but for some people it might be
a bit harder for them to be kind.
But being kind is free, itdoesn't cost anything, and
putting anger and hatred has somuch, takes up so much of your
(02:43):
energy than being kind, in myopinion, and so naturally, just
being kind and thoughtfultowards others has become second
nature to me.
Gurasis (02:52):
Yeah, I like the answer .
Actually, I don't find it weirdat all.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
Sometimes people forget toacquire, I would say, and they
sometimes just forget thateverybody comes from, you know,
with different experiences anddifferent challenges might they
be going through.
The least you can do is be kindto them, I would say.
Karen (03:13):
Yes, I definitely agree.
Being kind is like.
I think it's the pinnacle forall relationships, all
connections in life, in order tocreate more meaning to each
other's life.
Gurasis (03:28):
Yeah, love that answer.
Okay.
So, karen, let's just startfrom the start.
You were born in the UK toimmigrant parents who moved from
Vietnam.
Tell us a little bit about yourtime in London, if you have any
recollection or any storiesthat your parents have shared
with you of why and when theymoved to UK.
Karen (03:49):
Yeah, of course.
So I was born in UK.
I lived there for six years.
My parents they weren't there.
They immigrated to UK from HongKong actually.
So they're originallyVietnamese, they're from Vietnam
, but then they went to HongKong.
They met in Hong Kong and fromHong Kong they signed up to
(04:10):
immigrate in these highdeveloping countries, including.
They had the choice to go toCanada, us or the UK, and in
this case they chose UK, okay,and they established their end
of the 80s and then my olderbrother was born and then I was
(04:32):
born thereafter and we stayedthere for until I was six, so
until 2001.
And from there I moved toCanada and I've been in Canada
ever since.
So in the UK actually, I thinkit's like my, it was my most
happiest times that I ever.
(04:53):
I think because naturally, asyou go older you become more
self-aware and then youencounter more problems and as
you go older you get moreresponsibility, so life becomes
more complicated.
As a child.
I feel like that's when youremember the best times of your
life because you're not worryingabout anything as children.
(05:13):
So I actually remember where Ilived.
I remember the studying of myhouse that I was living in.
I remember this convenientstore that we would go to and my
dad at the time he spoke goodEnglish.
Now he doesn't because hehasn't been using English as
(05:35):
much in his community or at hiswork, but at the time I think he
spoke decent English and he wascompensating with strangers.
There was a lot of immigrantsaround that time as well.
So I think both of my parentswere comfortable being out there
(05:56):
in society compared to now, andso I remember going to the
convenience store and then theowner there.
He, like I, was only like fouryears old at the time.
I think, but he picked me up andI don't know this man, but he
picked me up as if I was hischild and just talking to me.
I remember that so clearly.
And then I remember going tothe grocery store and going
(06:19):
through the ice cream aisle andthat scent of going into the
freezer section.
I remember so clearly thatevery time I go to the freezer
section or every time I smellthat I get that scent from the
freezer section.
It literally reminds me of thatgrocery store in UK back then,
so I honestly do have fondmemories when I did live in
(06:43):
England and I cherish themreally, really a lot, and I do
plan on going back eventuallyand visiting where I used to
live and just create some sortof memory or have something back
in England for myself once Iget older.
But, yeah, I do plan on wantingto stay there for maybe a month
(07:05):
, just to revisit London as agrown adult.
Gurasis (07:12):
So I'm very, very interesting Were there any
certain families or friends thatyou were visiting all the time?
Karen (07:21):
Yeah, so basically my parents chose the UK because at
the time my dad's brothers wereliving there and then my
mother's sister was living there, so my aunt and my uncles.
So we would visit them here andthere, but it was so far of a
drive, probably like 45 minutesof a drive, so we visit them
probably, I'd say, every twomonths or so, but I don't really
(07:47):
have fond memories of creatinga relationship with them.
I just remember, like showingup to their place and you know,
getting to know my cousins andeating there.
But I don't remember in detailswhat happened.
Gurasis (08:00):
Okay, and do you have any recollection of the earlier
education, your school or?
Karen (08:06):
anything?
Yeah, I actually do so.
When I, we lived in aneighborhood where the
elementary school was probablytwo blocks away and every single
morning my mom or my dad either, or they, would walk me and my
older brother to school, andevery single morning and I think
(08:27):
I was, I was I left when I wassix, so I guess I was in that
elementary school for like ayear and a half, two years
before- I came to Canada.
So we would go like they wouldwalk us to school, we would line
up and then I don't recall likewhat happened in class because
I was so young, but I do recallmaking like friends and like a
(08:48):
best friend there.
I remember her name.
It's just I don't remember herlast name.
I even which is funny, which isso funny but I try to look up
her last name, I think a monthago on Facebook.
I couldn't, I can't recall tothis day but her, her first name
.
I remember it so well.
But she was my best friend atthe time.
We were super close and Iremember me being part of a play
(09:11):
for like Christmas and Iremember like every morning we
would have breakfast, we wouldgo into this mini building next
to the elementary school.
We would all have breakfast alltogether and then go to the main
classroom.
That is the extent of what Iremember from elementary days.
Gurasis (09:32):
then Wow, still a lot of details.
You remember that's amazing.
Karen (09:36):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Okay, yeah, it was a good time.
Gurasis (09:43):
Of course I'm sure it is.
So tell us what influenced thefamily or what influenced the
decision of the family to moveto Canada.
Karen (09:52):
So the reason why we moved to Canada is because my
mom also has another brother, somy other uncle, who lives here.
She has two brothers actuallyhere in Canada, in Montreal at
the time, and they were wellestablished, her older brother,
so my uncle.
He was the most established outof my mother's family so he in
(10:19):
a way kind of convinced her andsupported her to come here and
so she decided to.
Even though we had my aunt overthere in the UK which is my
mom's sister, I think my momfelt more compelled to come to
Canada.
So my dad naturally was open toit as well.
(10:39):
So that's why we came to Canadaafterwards in 2001.
Gurasis (10:47):
And do you remember your first day, or does your
parents have any stories thatthey shared with you of the
first day or the initial daysthat you landed?
Karen (10:55):
Yeah, well, the first time I landed was it was just me
and my mom, and then my dad andmy brother would come later,
but it was me and my mom firstand I remember literally I was
entering the airport in Canada,montreal's airport, and then
(11:16):
obviously there's a lot ofpeople, like you know, welcoming
their relatives, right.
I think we had like 20 peoplewelcoming just me and my mom.
I was so shy.
Yeah, I had literally 20 peopleall my cousins, all my aunts
and uncles, everybody was thereand I was.
It was just they were welcomingjust me and my mom and I guess
it was an exciting time right Tolike have a relative who wants
(11:40):
to come and live with them, livein the same country.
So we were there were 20 people, just like, welcoming us.
And I remember walking, my momwas holding the cart with the
baggage, like just pushing it,and I was behind her and half my
face was shown because I wasshy.
I was so shy, there was so manypeople, I was so overwhelmed
(12:02):
and the first thing, the firstthing that happened when I
literally was introduced to them, was my uncle, my mom's oldest
brother.
He picked me up and he was sohappy to see me.
He picked me up and I wasscared, right.
I don't know who he was.
It was my first time seeing him.
I was scared, but I knew my momwas there, so obviously, like I
(12:22):
knew it was safe, even though Ididn't know who he was.
He picked me up and theneverybody like circled around me
and just wanted to like touchme and hug me and just
acknowledge me.
And then I think from then thatday on I don't remember like
what happened.
I know we went like to eat.
I remember my uncle, the first,I think, few months I was there
(12:44):
.
He brought me, he drove me toTim Hortons.
He told me that, Karen, you haveto try this.
This is the staple of Canada.
I'm like what is it?
He's like it's Tim Hortons.
I'm like, okay, so we,literally it was a field trip
going to Tim Hortons.
And you know what Tim Hortons?
You see it almost every corner,right?
Every corner, yeah, yeah, so hebrought, he drove, just me and
(13:08):
my brother to Tim Hortons andthat was like for him an
introduction to the Canadianculture.
Gurasis (13:16):
Of course.
Karen (13:17):
Yeah, so I remember vividly that trip.
Gurasis (13:20):
Wow, 20 people welcoming you on the airport.
That's incredible, I think weguys, when come here, I remember
me that I saw my cousins likethey came to visit me from
Toronto to Montreal, like Ithink 10 days after I landed,
and I was super happy to seejust those two people.
I can't even imagine how youwould be feeling with 20 people
(13:42):
welcoming you at the airport andthen you said that they all
were coming and hugging andkissing you and meeting you,
right?
Do you think you still havethat trauma with you that, oh my
God, who are these people?
So people are right there withyou?
Karen (13:54):
No, no Cause.
The thing is our family is sobig From that moment on we would
have like monthly gatherings,so I would see them so
frequently that it became secondnature to me to know who they
were.
And our family is pretty likeextensive, like you know.
You know your cousins.
(14:14):
You get your cousins spouses,their kids and everything.
So it's very, very big and yousee them on a monthly basis at
that time.
So I was very comfortable withthem.
Gurasis (14:24):
Soon after, so, speaking of that culture and
everything, of course, like theculture in the UK and Canada,
people might think it's similar,but obviously it's very
different, right, but tell us,like some of the aspects of,
like your new culturalexperience that you found most
surprising or different fromyour own, or even from the UK.
Karen (14:47):
I mean, of course, I was like pretty young when I left
the UK so I wasn't self awareenough to like make a
distinction of what the kind ofculture it was.
But looking back, I thinkpeople in Montreal are a lot
more welcoming to differentnationalities.
In the area that I was livingin the UK it was more like
(15:10):
mainly I don't know if this ispolitically correct to say, but
it was a lot of brown people,pakistani, of course it's
correct.
Gurasis (15:18):
You're all brown.
Karen (15:21):
So yeah, a lot of brown people, a lot of Asian in that
community and there wasn't anyother race that I would see that
where I was living in the UK.
Gurasis (15:29):
Okay.
Karen (15:30):
I mean, of course there's like Caucasian right, but it
was predominantly Indian, brown,pakistani people and then a mix
of Asian.
But mostly like I was, mostly Iwas mostly introduced to like
brown people.
So coming here in Canada, likeI saw more different cultures,
(15:50):
different cultures, like we seeAfrican American culture, we see
more Caucasians, we see friendthe language top of that.
So I think in terms of cultureit's more spread, it's more
diversified in.
Montreal than in UK.
I mean I might be wrong If I goback to UK.
(16:11):
It might be the kind of thesimilar culture and of course
the language with the accent.
I mean this accent is differentbut because I kind of knew
English then for me it wasn'thard to understand English here.
It was just my accent thatchanged, because as children you
kind of pick up on a lot ofdifferent things.
Gurasis (16:33):
Absolutely.
Karen (16:33):
And so I naturally lost my British accent, but, and so I
have this more Canadian accentliving here.
Gurasis (16:42):
Can you still do that British accent though?
Yeah, I can still do it.
So earlier, when you weretalking about your life in the
UK, I just picked on this onepoint I want to circle back
again on.
You said that your father usedto use English a lot back then,
but it doesn't use it enough now.
Tell us what did you mean bythat?
Karen (17:04):
So back then we didn't have not, to my knowledge, there
wasn't a big community ofVietnamese people that my
parents were integrated in orthey were part of.
They didn't know who to reachout or how to reach to these
Vietnamese community, or theyweren't in need of it at the
time, but I think they were inthe mindset of exploring and
(17:27):
being more adventurous and veryin a state of, not in a state,
but they were more in a placewhere they were uncomfortable so
they had to like get out thereto find solutions to resolve
issues.
So there were more, I would say, outgoing.
Now, moving here, where we havea lot more, even though we did
(17:48):
have family back in the UK, morefamily and more support in
Montreal, in Canada, montreal.
So because of that, theyalready these support systems.
So basically, my relatives, theyalready have these Vietnamese
communities built and so theyintegrated my parents into it
and naturally my parents feltmore comfortable with these
(18:11):
communities and started to hangout around these communities
that spoke just Vietnamese andso naturally they found jobs
through these people and so theydidn't feel the need to venture
out on their own, becausethey're no longer on their own
as much compared to the UK.
So being integrated in thesecommunities allowed them to feel
(18:34):
more comfortable in the skinand probably reminded them of
their home country and for thatreason I think they got used to
it.
And my dad didn't feel the needto use the English language as
much because he already found ajob through these relatives, and
these relatives they speak inthat, in Vietnamese at their job
(18:55):
.
So he didn't feel the need touse English.
So naturally, when you don'tuse a language or you don't use
anything in general, you kind oflose that skill set over time.
Gurasis (19:05):
That's really fascinating for me to know,
because I think all this timeI've heard stories where people
have integrated into the societyand they just because Punjabi
is widely spoken here and there.
Just what I thought.
But this is very fascinating toknow that even Vietnamese is
also spoken and there is jobsand work in the same language as
(19:25):
well.
Karen (19:26):
Yes, yes, there is, and I think it's a good thing.
That's why it's good to alwaysbe part of communities, because
you learn a lot and you getnetworking.
But it also puts you kind of ina box when you feel comfortable
.
Gurasis (19:41):
Oh yeah.
Karen (19:42):
So I think it's always a balance.
I find so in the case of myparents.
They got used to it and theydidn't feel the need to use
English and then, as I grewolder me and my brother as their
kids we would be their maintranslator for things if they
did need help.
Gurasis (20:00):
Yeah, and you also said that your mother was also more
comfortable to go out back thenin Yooka and integrate in the
society.
Do you would say like this isone of those reasons that she
doesn't go out too much now?
Karen (20:13):
Yeah, but she is better because if she was better, she's
better than us.
She didn't know, she was, Iguess, wanted to be adventurous
and she would walk us to school,she would talk to these parents
here and there and sheapparently knew English super
well.
She learned it back in HongKong and she used it a lot more
in the UK and I guess there wasno Vietnamese communities that
(20:37):
was created for her at the time,so she didn't.
She had to use the otherlanguage that she knows, which
was English.
So same kind of concept as mydad, and so when she came to
Montreal Canada again, we havethese communities she became
more comfortable with them anddidn't feel the need to use
(20:59):
English.
Gurasis (21:01):
And what about the kids ?
Was it like an intentionaleffort to instill the Vietnamese
language or you just picked itup in the house?
Karen (21:08):
So my parents wanted me to go to Vietnamese school,
meaning we went to this languageschool once a week and it
started from grade one to grade,I think, seven or eight, and in
my case, me and my brother wewent to that school for up until
(21:30):
grade six, and so it was aweekly thing and I was excelling
in that school.
I don't know why, but I reallyput in effort to make sure I get
100% in those written tests orverbal tests, and I was
(21:51):
excelling in that, in that inVietnamese school, and from
there I'm thankful that I didlearn it.
But you will actually see a lotof not kids, a lot of adults my
age, around my age, who areVietnamese.
A portion of them don't knowVietnamese as well because they
(22:14):
either never went to school orparents didn't really speak that
language too much to them atthe time.
But my parents, because I wentto Vietnamese school, I can read
, write and understandVietnamese fluently.
So, yeah, that's how I learnedVietnamese.
(22:35):
And then my parents just speakto me in Vietnamese, right, they
don't speak English or French.
So that's how I also get toupkeep this language.
Gurasis (22:44):
It's so great that these immigrant does make that
effort to instill that languageand, for example, in your case,
they asked you to go to theschool and learn the language.
This is really nice just tokeep the language intact and
still present within the family,and I'm sure you will sort of
do the same thing to your nextgenerations as well, because I
do speak to a few immigrants andI think everybody I've spoken
(23:07):
to so far on the podcastEverybody, literally everybody
has made that effort to instilltheir respective languages in
their children and that is, Ithink, definitely the thing to
do.
Karen (23:18):
Yes, I totally agree.
I would totally do it when oneday I have kids, but my younger
brother.
So I have a younger brother andhe my parents didn't instill it
in him to go to Vietnameseschool, so he didn't go to
Vietnamese school.
So he doesn't know the languageas well as I did at his age,
(23:39):
okay, but he does learn itthrough my parents, who speak to
him in Vietnamese, but he's notas fluent or as oh, he can't
write or he can't readVietnamese.
So it really depends on theparenting style and what the
parents want from the kids overtime.
Gurasis (23:59):
So let's just talk a little bit about the cultural
celebrations and traditions thatwere their parents making that
effort to celebrate alloccasions, all festivals Like.
In our case, I think wecelebrate, for example, the
Diwali, which is like a majorfestival, indian festival we
have, and many other religious,small, small occasions.
(24:19):
We also celebrate your family,also growing up in your family
for many years.
What are they doing that aswell?
Karen (24:26):
Yeah, so we were celebrating, like we would have
monthly gatherings just to likehang out and chill, but there
were like main events that wouldhappen, so like Chinese New
Year's, for example, even thoughit's called.
Chinese but I'm Vietnamese.
But we celebrate Chinese NewYear.
That would be like the biggestevent of the year and we would
(24:47):
celebrate it within our family.
I think those are like.
I think that's one of the mainholidays that we celebrate.
I can't recall anything elsethat's major.
But we do celebrate likebirthdays and like, I guess,
christmas.
You know those regular holidays, canadian holidays, we do
(25:07):
celebrate them, but not itdoesn't.
We don't put as much importanceas to like Chinese New Year's,
for example.
Gurasis (25:16):
Okay, and is there like a particular tradition or maybe
even like a festival, apartfrom you know, the Chinese New
Year that you have preservedwith yourself, that you have
like adopted that or somethingthat is like close to you, for
example, anything, maybe like atraditional attire, maybe like a
certain cuisine or certain food, anything that you really find
(25:41):
really close to you From myculture?
Karen (25:44):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the food like I cook Vietnamese
food and I know how to cook it,and the fact that I'm able to I
know the language and Iunderstand it I can like look up
recipes and understand whatthey're saying and find more
ancient, sick, like harderrecipes to make.
(26:05):
So I think that's one thingthat I kind of picked up and
will always keep within me to,because the thing is, when we
have these monthly gatherings,all the women would be in the
kitchen and just cook togetherand it'd be that way their way
of socializing and makeconnections.
Gurasis (26:25):
And it would be the authentic Vietnamese food.
Karen (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, authentic Vietnamese food, and they would
just literally chit chat whilecooking and their way of
celebrating the culture on amonthly basis, and so I feel
like food is what brings peopletogether in any setting.
So I find knowing Vietnamesefood and knowing how it's cooked
(26:49):
and what's required will besomething that I will always
keep in my culture and bringforward to my kids.
Gurasis (27:00):
Have you ever visited back in Vietnam?
Karen (27:03):
Yes, I have, and the last time was in 2004.
So a while.
Gurasis (27:09):
Wow, that's a long time ago.
Karen (27:11):
Yeah, that's a long long time ago.
But, yeah, I do love it when Igo back, but I like to go back
in a big family setting, so,like the entire family.
And it's been harder to makethat happen in the past few
years.
So for that reason I haven'tgone back and I don't want to go
(27:32):
back like with me and friends.
You know.
I want to go back with myentire family and celebrate and
be together and reignite thatculture, that Vietnamese culture
, and understand the familybackground more, but together as
a family, rather than going bymyself and discover on my own.
Gurasis (27:51):
Yeah, you were mentioning that.
You know your mom's siblings.
You said your aunt was in theUK, your uncles are in Montreal.
So do you have any family leftback in Vietnam or everybody is
just living abroad in there?
Karen (28:07):
No, we do have.
I think we have one or two ofmy uncles and aunts actually no
more than that.
Sorry, I just have so many thatI can't keep up.
Like, on my dad's side there'ssix siblings and then my mom's
side there's they're also sixsiblings.
So I have cousins still inVietnam, I have cousins in
Canada, I have cousins in the UK.
(28:28):
So we still have family in theUK, Canada and Vietnam.
Gurasis (28:34):
Okay, is there something, karen you, something
that people don't know aboutVietnam or the Vietnamese
culture, that you would like toshare with us?
Karen (28:44):
I mean I think we all know this, but Vietnamese people
in the, in the cost, in the waythat I was brought up, we are
very, very hardworking.
I mean I know everybody is toan extent, but we don't give up
and so we are very, veryhardworking and we always make
(29:05):
sure that we are aligned from afamily point of view.
So we are very family oriented,community, very community
oriented I don't know that's aword, but we're very focused on
that and hardworking at whateverwe put our energy into.
Gurasis (29:26):
And it's also like a collectivistic society, right.
Karen (29:30):
Yes, yes, in the way that I was brought up.
Yes.
Gurasis (29:35):
Brought up.
Yeah, yeah, Okay, Awesome.
So let's just talk a little bitabout the.
You know the family dynamicsand the.
So the experience I have had,you know, speaking to Indians,
more specifically the Punjabifirst generation immigrants, I
get to hear this a lot, that ourparents are still stuck in the
(29:56):
air, the left India, the leftPunjab and they had not outgrown
that certain ideologies.
Tell us if you have had anycertain experiences growing up.
Karen (30:08):
I can tell you a recent one, okay, I think in my
experience.
So my parents, they got marriedat like 20, super young, and
then they got kids early 20s,no-transcript.
At this age that I'm at, Ishould be married.
(30:29):
According to them, according totheir culture, I should have
kids by now, you know.
So I think their mentality isoh, why aren't you married at
this age?
What happened?
What's wrong with you?
But I don't take offense to it.
I get it because that's howthey were brought up, like
everybody around their age gotmarried at the same time.
(30:53):
So for them to see this moreWesternized, more modern way of
living is different.
They ask me here and there, butI don't pay attention to it
because it is my path, it is myjourney, it is my way of living
and I'm content with thedecisions I make.
But for sure it's in the backof their head Like they're
(31:15):
probably worried why I'm notmarried.
But I will know in due time itwill happen.
Gurasis (31:23):
So I'm not worried about that.
Yeah, I think that's prettycommon.
Again, one of the conversationsI have with many people around
my age are very rich, and Ithink all those South Asian
communities also, and then youare sharing our example as well.
This is a common conversation.
I think times are gone when youare supposed to get married at
(31:44):
like 20 and have children by 23and then another child by 25 and
then just wait for retirement.
Those days are gone, I thinkalso because we millennials
especially Karen got exposed toso much.
Our parents can't even fathomthe fact there's something
(32:04):
called internet.
Back then, probably, andespecially in my parents, I
would say I'm the youngest inthe family and my sisters
actually I have two sisters andthey got married at the age of
like early 20 sometime and theyalways do question me as well
and I'm like come on, gone arethose days.
It's not the norm anymore andit will happen when it's due.
(32:28):
You can't force these things tohappen anymore.
So I can totally, totallyrelate with you.
Karen (32:34):
Yeah, can I ask you something?
Sure, do you ever get pressuredover time?
Do you still feel pressuredfrom these questions or you're
indifferent?
Gurasis (32:43):
Well, I don't think so I'm indifferent.
I think I do get pressurized aswell, because these are common
questions, right?
I think all my friends alsokind of are asked these
questions and it's hard tosometimes, you know, explain the
parents as well that what issomething which is holding me
back and it's not.
It's, you know, like I think wehave had discussions earlier as
(33:06):
well I think it's it's not thetime right now.
We have things to do, we havethings to figure out, and it
will happen at its due time.
You can't force these things tohappen just because everybody's
doing it.
You don't have to do it, it'sokay.
It will happen whenever it'ssupposed to.
There's a right time foreverything.
So, yeah, I think I do havethat banter with my parents at
(33:27):
times, but at the same time, Ithink I'll I'll acknowledge
their understanding because theydo understand me and they do
understand that, okay, fine, we,we know that it will happen its
own time and we can't ask thesame question a hundred times,
you know.
So I think they are alsoevolving, but I think I've said
it multiple times on the podcastthat they are the product of
(33:49):
their own time and they just tryto do what they were taught or
they have seen whole life, andit's very difficult to change
their ideologies in which theyhave grown up.
So, yeah, that's how I wouldanswer that.
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(34:12):
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(34:32):
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Now let's get back to theepisode.
So let's just talk about.
You know your education,obviously, and a little bit
about the career path, and youwere telling me that when you
came here, you had to go to afriend's school, even though
(35:16):
your parents were anglophone.
Actually, I did a little bit ofresearch and also, like, spoke
to somebody and they told methat if you are anglophone, you
are allowed to go to an Englishschool.
So I'm not sure what was thenorm back then when you came
that you, either one of yourparents were anglophone, but you
still had to go to the friend'sschool.
So tell us about that time.
(35:36):
And you're also telling me thatyou also feel the very first
grade.
Tell us about that time.
Karen (35:42):
Yeah, so the reason why I had to go learn French is
because I don't.
My parents did not go to anEnglish speaking school.
They didn't go to school.
So they because it didn't foryou to go to an English school
here in Montreal at the time,your parents either you have to
(36:03):
either be born in Canada or yourparents have to go to have had
to go to an English speakingschool in order for you to go in
order to you to enter anEnglish school.
So, I was neither.
I was straight up an immigrantinto Canada, so I was.
I had to be put into a Frenchschool and actually for the
(36:27):
first month I did go to anEnglish school and we did try it
.
But the thing is, I guess myparents weren't too
knowledgeable about the rules,but I did go to English
elementary school and I wasthere for a month and a half and
they kicked me out.
Yeah, I mean, they didn'tliterally kick me out, they
literally they just packed up mystuff and they said buy to me.
(36:47):
I didn't know what that meantand I told my parents, like I
said they gave me all my schoolstuff.
But why did they do that?
Like why did the school do that?
Yeah Well, because they're notallowed to like host immigrants
who don't, who didn't haveparents who went to English
school.
It was like against the law tohave kids.
It was against the law.
Like I think my parents justput me into an English school
(37:09):
without knowing the rules andregulations at the time and then
, as I got enrolled in the firstmonth, that's when we all
realized that I was not doingthe not legal student being in
the English school.
So they kicked me out.
Nicely, they kicked me outnicely, and then I went into
(37:31):
French elementary school and Ihad to restart.
I did first grade and secondgrade in Aikari.
Aikari would in French, inEnglish, would be like a
welcoming class where they wouldhost students who don't know,
who have trouble knowing knowingor learning French, or had more
(37:53):
difficulties to learn the newlanguage.
So I was put in Aikari, thefirst and second grade, first
grade I.
The thing is when you, whenyou're in Aikari first grade, if
you pass then you go intoregular second grade.
But because in a way I wasn'tgood enough, I kind of failed,
(38:15):
in that sense, first grade andthen I went to Aikari, second
grade, and then when I finishedthe Aikari second grade I was
put into regular second grade.
So I didn't even go up to thirdgrade, regular I went to.
I basically failed my secondgrade essentially.
So failing that I don't thinkit really made an impact to me
(38:40):
at the time because I guess as achild you don't, you just you
know, you just try to pass andgo on to the next level.
But, looking back, I think itwas a good thing.
I mean, I'm grateful forwhatever happened to get me to
where I am now, but I justrecall making a lot of friends
(39:01):
in that welcome in that Aikariclass and then being feeling
more comfortable than, say, likein a regular class, because we
all had the same struggles in away.
And so we had these obstaclesthat we had to get together and
try to surpass them together.
And even though we don't speakthe same language there was like
(39:23):
multiple differentnationalities in that classroom
Even though we don't know thesame language our aim, our goal
was the same, which is to getbetter in French.
So I think in a sense I feltmore belonged.
I felt belonged in that setting, in that Aikari class.
But afterwards, you know, Ifelt more comfortable knowing
(39:47):
French.
But that was the time that Ifelt the most belonged and most
comfortable at that age.
Gurasis (39:53):
Okay, Do you?
Are you friends with anybodystill from that class?
Karen (39:58):
Actually I am friends with one person, Okay, but I
don't think she recalls that wewent to that same class.
No, no, did I ever brought itup?
But we're friends but we don'tsee each other that often, maybe
once every three years, Okay.
Gurasis (40:14):
But after that, when you got into your third grade,
you were also telling me thatyou were not comfortable
speaking to your classmates.
Tell us about that, why.
Karen (40:21):
So I think in elementary school it wasn't made aware to
me that I was uncomfortable withFrench.
It was only in high school thatit was made aware to me that I
felt uncomfortable speakingFrench.
So in elementary I was likejust doing my course, I was not
doing well in French classes butI still, you know, put in
(40:43):
effort and stuff and thankfullypass and went into high school.
And then going into high school, that's when you meet different
people, different classes.
You meet like I don't know 400students right In the same grade
as you in high school, fromdifferent like class, from
different like ethnicity anddifferent Different interests.
(41:05):
You meet like so many students.
And so over time I kind ofbecame uncomfortable speaking
French because I had an accentMeaning I had an accent and I
also had to find my words a lotin French compared to English.
So going to high school I wascomfortable in English but I was
uncomfortable speaking French.
And so, being uncomfortablespeaking French, I didn't reach
(41:30):
out to, I wasn't socializingwith students as much.
I was more in my corner bychoice and I felt comfortable
being in my corner.
And sometimes my classmateswould think that I just don't
like them because I'm nottalking to them but little do
they know is because I feel shyand embarrassed of my accent, of
(41:55):
having to find my words Can'tbe as smooth as other people
comparing myself to how theyspeak French.
I was not.
I didn't have the highest selfconfidence to speak French and
for that reason I retreated inhigh school a lot.
Gurasis (42:11):
Back then they thought you were Karen, way before the
concept of Karen came in.
Yeah, yeah, literally.
Karen (42:17):
And, honestly, when I look back then, friends that I
made in high school, the closestones are the ones that were
very either understood Englishwell or conversated with me in
English here and there, oraccepted me speaking English
here and there over time.
Like, sometimes I would speakin English or some words would
(42:39):
come out in English and some ofthe students in high school
would kind of not be acceptingof it, or they would just find
it weird that I would or theywouldn't understand what I'm
saying, so I would need tochange my language in order for
them to understand.
So, yeah, most of my friendsfrom high school are those that
either really I communicated inEnglish most of the time, or
(43:03):
they understood my languagebarrier, or they made me feel
comfortable that it is okay tohave a French accent.
Gurasis (43:12):
And you also mentioned earlier that that a K class you
know where you were learningFrench was the only time you
felt belonged than ever.
Tell us like why would you saythat?
That I think you are living inMontreal from 20 years.
I believe more than 20 yearsactually, but you still think
you felt belonged then and notnow.
Why would you say that?
Karen (43:33):
Well, not that I don't feel belonged now, but I think
the most time that that was atime where I felt vividly like
there was no problems in theworld.
I felt the most at peace atthat age.
So when that was first grade,second grade, first second grade
so I was probably like earlyteens yeah, no, actually, no,
(43:55):
that was actually maybe likeunder 10, under 10.
Yeah, under 10, essentiallyunder 10.
But because, again, I wasn'tself-aware enough.
I didn't have these issuesgrowing up as an adult.
So the only issue I had wasgoing to school, making sure I
was fed and making friends, andall those requirements for me at
the age was fulfilled.
(44:16):
So I felt belonged in thatsense, and that's not to say, oh
, I don't feel belonged now, butfor sure I didn't have whatever
responsibilities and roles andissues that I encountered today
at that age.
So I do feel belonged now, butnot as strongly as I was then
(44:40):
because of the self-awarenessthat I have acquired over time.
Gurasis (44:45):
Okay, so what is something you think is sort of
missing, or like a missing piece, which will make you feel more
belonged?
Or maybe do you think there arecertain practice that you have
to follow, then that will makeyou feel more belonged.
Karen (45:00):
There is.
No, I don't think there'll beanything that will make me feel
more belonged.
I think in the past I thinkfive years or so I've become
more self-aware and I heard thissaying that this was like five
years ago, but I heard it and itkind of resonates.
It still resonates to me tothis day and the saying is you
(45:23):
belong wherever you go.
So I kind of kept thatmentality and so wherever in an
uncomfortable situation ornetworking events, for example,
where you have to be outspokenand get yourself out there.
I still I tell myself I belong,even though I know I don't.
(45:45):
I know it's hard to integrate,but I tell myself I belong
wherever I go, meaning I amcomfortable with my skin and
with the skills that I have, andthe way that.
I am as a person, I can makemyself know that.
Gurasis (46:05):
I belong.
Karen (46:07):
Kind of brainwash myself that I belong and I feel
comfortable doing that.
How does that make sense?
Absolutely.
Gurasis (46:14):
I think that's very true.
I like what you said, that thisis all in your mind.
We feel that we don't belong incertain situations or, for
example, getting hired at anagency and you feel like, oh, am
I like a diversity hire, forexample, but it's not you
actually belong.
They really have to in adialogue with yourself that it's
(46:34):
you who is stopping you fromreally feeling accepted and it's
you who's going to help you tofeel more belong.
It's all in your mind, exactlyAll in your mind.
Karen (46:44):
You have to let go of that fear that again, me not
being comfortable speakingFrench.
So when I was in high school Ihave a friend, a classmate
actually.
He said at the end of our yearwhen we were graduating.
He said, karen, you neverreally liked me.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
He's like because you neverspeak, you never talk to me.
I'm like, no, we talk but wedon't have conversations.
(47:07):
And then I thought deep backinto it.
I'm like well, I don't makeconversations with him because
he I don't feel comfortablespeaking French.
And so, knowing that I didn'tfeel the need to explain it to
him why he felt like I didn'tlike him, because I already knew
I was comfortable in my skin inthat moment that me not
(47:29):
speaking French is how I feel,like I could belong in that
environment.
Gurasis (47:35):
Talk us a little bit about your career choice Also,
because I have this questionthat you know we South Asians
are asked to follow, like acertain career path growing up,
oh, you have to be a doctor,engineer, lawyer, etc.
Was there like a similarconversation in your families
that you have to follow acertain path?
Karen (47:54):
Yeah, for sure For me, we .
They wanted us to be like alawyer doctor engineer not less
engineer at the time, but yeah,very high, like high paying jobs
or high rewarding jobs tosociety.
But so what I did over time isthat when I was entering college
(48:21):
so CJEP, which is after highschool, they you have to choose
if you want to go into likescience or business, and I chose
science for the first semesterand I got into science in CJEP
and the first semester.
I hated it and it was a battlebetween what I wanted and what
(48:44):
my parents wanted.
And again, I chose business, andI felt so much more at peace
making that decision, and I knewthat, no matter how mad they
would be or they or unsupportedthey would be, I knew that that
was the best route for me.
So they weren't mad at me forchoosing that, though, but you
(49:06):
know they want the best for youat the end of the day, and their
best, their knowledge of whatis best for you, is having the
highest paying job or the best,the most rewarding job, which,
in this case, would be doctor orlawyer or some sort, but not in
business right.
In terms of career, I knew fromCJEP that I would be in business
(49:26):
and I would stay in businessand they've never kind of
questioned me from that pointforward because I think my
decision making was so secure inmyself.
I showed that I was so securein that decision that that made
them feel comfortable and notquestion if my decision was
wrong or right.
Gurasis (49:47):
Yeah, and you also worked at a bank for some time,
right?
Karen (49:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So I worked at a bank for fouryears part time and then
sometime full time in the summer.
But I worked in finance and Ireally liked it as a part time
job.
But over time I knew because Iwasn't studying business finance
, I was studying businessmarketing.
So I knew finance was just agood to have on my resume and it
(50:16):
was a good knowledge.
But I knew it wasn't mydepartment, it would be mostly
marketing.
Gurasis (50:23):
And that's why you transitioned into advertising.
Karen (50:26):
Yes.
So I knew I always lovedbusiness, but I'm also creative
as well as an individual.
So I wanted to mix business andcreative.
And what does that entail?
So under business there'sfinance, accounting, btm, so
business technology management,and then supply chain, and then
(50:49):
you have marketing Underbusiness.
What is the most suited for me?
I chose marketing right off thebat and I stuck with it, and I
knew I wanted to work at anagency start as my first career.
So for that reason I enteredthe agency life and I'm doing
(51:10):
pharmaceutical advertising.
Gurasis (51:15):
Okay, kaden.
So I just want to talk verybriefly before we get into the
final segment, about thecross-cultural friendships.
You have grown up here.
You have met people from allcultures from around the world
Canada that's the best thingabout Canada.
Tell me how this cross-culturalfriendships has contributed to
you.
Maybe again I want to use theword it has contributed to your
(51:37):
sense of belonging, or how ithas helped you just in your
personal growth.
Karen (51:41):
So these calls across cultural friendships have
allowed me to be morecomfortable with French actually
.
So these friends that I've met,they speak either just English
or just French or both, andsometimes they would speak both
language in one sentence and sonaturally I, to kind of connect
(52:07):
with them, I would do the same.
So over time it made mecomfortable to switch from
English to French in like a fewseconds.
And getting to know theirculture and their way of living
is similar to me because I wouldsay most of my friends are
either Asian or their differentrace.
I kind of got to know differentcultures and understand that we
(52:30):
kind of relate to each otherfrom an immigrant perspective
and that made me feelcomfortable in my skin to be
around them and also be moreopen-minded when they have
issues in their culture, intheir tradition and how they
overcome it and how they portrayit to their family and friends.
(52:51):
I learned from that and I get tobasically acknowledge what
their issues are and then givemy advice from my perspective
and create a relationshipstronger, make bonds out of it
and I think, in that sense,being open-minded, they allow me
to be open-minded.
Eventually, these cost culturalfriendships that I have and
(53:16):
being open-minded, I think it'sthe best way to integrate into
society.
Gurasis (53:24):
Yeah.
Karen (53:24):
Because if you're closed-minded then you'll just
reject everything that does notalign to your values, and I
think you have to be open-mindedto know that there are so many
different things out there todiscover, and there will always
be things to discover as long asyou are open-hearted and
(53:45):
open-minded to it.
Gurasis (53:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree with you.
I think the reason today, youand me somebody who has the
roots of Vietnam and somebodywho is from India is now sitting
together and talking today isonly and only because we are
open-minded and we took thatstep to really integrate into
(54:08):
different cultures and knowabout each other.
And I think that's the bestthing about Canada as well,
where you can find people fromall around the world and it's
fascinating to know about theircultures.
And also it's the most amazingthing to know that there are so
many similarities betweendifferent cultures.
And I think I have connectedwith so many people only and
(54:30):
only on the basis of theconversations what?
How parents talk to us, or someconversations about the food,
or, like in my case, I love myIndian spices, so it's about
Indian spices, is there?
All this has really connectedme with the people from all
around the world, and I can't bemore thankful to Canada for
(54:51):
such an enriching experience.
Karen (54:53):
Yeah, yeah, and I love that that you said that, because
same I feel so grateful that Iwas able to meet you and these
friends and have built thisrelationship, and that has
allowed me to become so invitingas a person and feel more
belonging and allow people tofeel that they belong, no matter
(55:14):
where they are.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, we loveCanada.
We do.
Gurasis (55:24):
Okay, keryan.
So now we're in the finalsegment of the podcast.
I call it Beneath the Accent.
I'm going to ask you a coupleof questions.
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or however you
feel like.
The idea is just to know moreabout you, so ready.
Karen (55:37):
Yes.
Gurasis (55:40):
So what's the best piece of advice someone ever
gave you?
Karen (55:44):
I think it's not a piece of advice that's from somebody.
I think it's a collective ofthoughts that were given to me
and I kind of put it together Isto have boundaries, be kind, be
(56:04):
open-minded, communicate andalways listen to your heart.
I mean, some people would sayit's not always good to listen
to your heart at all times, butat the end of the day, I guess,
listen to your gut feeling.
There is no right or wrong whenyou do that.
(56:27):
I guess, like I've neveractually really got a piece of
advice from somebody.
I would say it's more from likelistening, from like different
podcasts and from yourobservations.
Yeah, observations that I kindof collected these common advice
(56:48):
.
Gurasis (56:49):
Yeah, okay, you said something about you know follow
your heart.
That that also something I seeon the podcast all the time that
I encourage you to follow yourheart, but also us on Instagram.
The handle is my take accent,so all the listeners do follow
us on Instagram as well.
Karen (57:04):
Yes, follow, follow, follow, follow.
Gurasis (57:06):
Oh, thank you.
Okay, is there any worst advice, karen, that someone ever gave
you?
Karen (57:11):
I don't think there's any worse advice.
I think any advice is good,depending on how you take it.
But I would say, from listeningto these advices that I've
gotten, I could say that I thinkone of my friends did say at
some point, like don't alwayslisten to, don't always take all
(57:31):
opinions to heart.
It's not.
It's not personal, it'sbusiness.
Gurasis (57:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Karen (57:40):
And I took that to heart because I take a lot of things
personally, but over time I keptsaying that to myself and so I
don't take.
So the saying is it's notpersonal, it's business.
Gurasis (57:52):
Business.
Karen (57:54):
So no, take taking that advice in.
I think it's good, because thenyou become neutral to
everything that's being said toyou.
You take it in but you don'ttake it personally and you know
that it's coming from their bestof interest in that time that
they gave it to you withinformation that they have.
So, whatever they say, don'ttake it personal, not saying
(58:18):
it's all business, but don'ttake it personally.
Gurasis (58:20):
essentially, yeah, yeah , perfect, I like that.
Is there something you recentlybought and you're now regret?
Karen (58:27):
Okay, Probably a shirt that I bought.
I bought a shirt for like thissummer and it's pink because you
know how the movie Barbie cameout right.
Gurasis (58:36):
Yeah.
Karen (58:37):
So somehow I was just so into pink and I never wear pink.
I'm a very like, neutral kindof person, like I wear a lot of
black and white, neutral colors.
So this shirt I bought.
I never worn it.
I guess that's one thing Iregret, but like it's even then,
it's not even a regret.
It's like it's something Idon't use to its fullest
potential.
Gurasis (58:54):
Okay.
So what's the most expensivething?
You own Probably my MacBook.
So what's the most expensivething?
You would like to buy A newphone for now, okay.
So what's next on your bucketlist, kieran.
Karen (59:07):
Getting a promotion.
Gurasis (59:08):
Okay, good luck with that, thank you.
So who's your go-to person whenyou feel stuck?
Karen (59:16):
I have this friend that I go to when I feel stuck and she
listens to me when I haveproblems and she tries to
decipher the issue by asking medeep questions.
Gurasis (59:27):
Okay, are there any movies that you like to watch
over and over?
Karen (59:30):
again.
There is one, but I don't eveneven then I don't watch it often
.
It's Toy Story, toy Story.
You know, toy Story?
Yeah, yeah, toy Story, toyStory.
1, 2, 3, 4.
Gurasis (59:41):
Okay.
Karen (59:42):
Yeah, the Disney movie.
That's one thing that I wouldwatch again, if you could have
one superpower.
Gurasis (59:48):
what would it be To be invisible?
For some reason?
I was expecting this to comefrom you, oh, really.
Karen (59:55):
Yeah, how come.
Gurasis (59:58):
Maybe it's the introvertness of yours that kind
of gave me a hint that it'scoming, it's coming.
Karen (01:00:06):
Yes, you thought right.
Gurasis (01:00:07):
So, Karen, if you had to create this one law that
everybody has to follow, whatwould it be?
Karen (01:00:12):
I think it would be accept people for who they are
and give them grace, give thempatience, give yourself patience
and know that at the end of theday, as long as we are on the
same page and we are together asa community, everything will
turn out okay.
(01:00:33):
Not sure that could be a law,love that Mic drop.
Gurasis (01:00:37):
I would say I love that , Thank you.
So describe Canada in one wordor a sentence.
Karen (01:00:44):
Canada is welcoming.
Gurasis (01:00:47):
So finally, Karen, if you could leave me with one
piece of advice, what would itbe?
Karen (01:00:53):
I would say probably it was repeated throughout this
recording.
Gurasis (01:00:59):
Sure.
Karen (01:01:00):
But have boundaries.
Listen to your gut.
Never give up on yourself.
Give yourself patience andgrace and time to be the best
version of yourself.
Gurasis (01:01:13):
Okay, love that.
So, finally, how would youdescribe your experience of
being on this podcast?
Karen (01:01:21):
I loved it.
I mean, you know we alreadyspeak as friends at work, as
colleagues as well, but this wasvery exciting and I am super
honored to have like even gethere, to get to this point with
you and, honestly, I am so proudof even though we've only known
(01:01:43):
each other for so little likeI'm so proud of what you've
accomplished and have done andthe way like how outgoing you
are and the way you integrateconversations with people and
how you get people together justby doing this podcast, and I
think it's brave and I thinkit's admirable and I'm super
grateful to have met you.
Gurasis (01:02:04):
Likewise, Karen, Super grateful to you, know come
across you in this Canadianjourney of mine.
So thank you.
Thank you so much, Karen, forbeing on the podcast, all your
kind words and adding value tomy listeners.
Thank you.
Karen (01:02:17):
Thank you so much.
Gurasis (01:02:19):
Hey listener, Thank you for making it to the end.
I highly highly appreciate youlistening to the podcast.
Subscribe to the podcast if youhaven't as yet, and please
share with your friends oranybody you think would like it.
Karen (01:02:32):
And like.
Gurasis (01:02:33):
I always say we encourage you to follow your
heart, but also ask.
On Instagram, handle is .
You can also leave us a reviewor write to us at
Hello@mythickaccent.
com.
So stay tuned and let'scontinue knowing each other
beneath the accent.
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