Triumph Over Adversity: Ugandan Refugee Stories | Ft. Rossbina Nathoo Ep. 036 - My Thick Accent

Episode Transcript
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Gurasis (00:00):
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're listening to My
Thick Action Podcast.
Okay, imagine this You areliving in a country where you

(00:21):
have a stable job, a comfortablehome and a thriving business.
Life is seemingly peaceful andsecure.
But then everything, everythingchanges in an instant.
The president of the countryissues a devastating order
expelling you and thousands ofothers who share your heritage.
You are given a mere 90 days toleave your home, forced to

(00:44):
abandon everything you haveworked for your property, your
belongings, your livelihood allsnatched away.
Well, 50 years ago, thishappened with the residents of
Uganda, when their president,idi Amin, in 1970s, ordered the
expulsion of 80,000 Asians, manyof whom were the descendants of
indentured servants, andlaborers from India were given

(01:06):
just 90 days to leave thecountry.
It is a harrowing ordeal,filled with uncertainty and fear
.
Yet, amidst the chaos, aglimmer of hope emerges as
Canada, along with other nations, opens its doors to embrace
those seeking refuge, and myguest today is one of those
50,000 refugees who werewelcomed by Canada And, like

(01:28):
many others, she found Solace,resilience and the opportunity
to rebuild her life in a newland.
Please welcome Rossbina.

Rossbina (01:39):
Thank you, Gurasis.

Gurasis (01:41):
Hi, Rossbina, welcome to the podcast.
I'm very glad to have you onthe podcast and I'm very excited
for you to share the wholeexperience and, at the same time
, educate us for all that you,along with many others, have
gone through.
So, rosbina, let's just startfrom the start.
Before you moved or I would sayyou were forced to move to

(02:05):
Canada, you spent your initial15 years of your life in Uganda.
Tell us a little bit about yourlife there before the expulsion
was announced.

Rossbina (02:16):
So, Gurasis, yeah, thank you very much for this
background that you've given uson this Ugandan expulsion crisis
.
First of all, so I was only ateenager when we were expelled
from Uganda, but I would like toshare these sentiments with all

(02:39):
the elders who have probablypassed on now or are no more in
this world And as an aging nowinto senior hood, there has been
50 years that we need toreflect back on.

(03:03):
So, first of all, these last 50years that we are celebrating
as Canadians and being andcelebrating Canada as our home,
that is truly magnificent.
Those were the best years of mylife, but prior to that, the

(03:27):
childhood memories don't leaveyou.
The childhood memories aboutgoing to school, having your
friends, enjoying your pets,enjoying simple things in life,
you know, like playing hide andseek in your neighborhood.
We did not have technology atthat time, we had very simple

(03:49):
toys to play with And it wasmore interaction amongst
neighbors, friends, where we hadabsolutely no barriers.
We were not shielded withreligion or faiths or colors at
that time.
Okay, so everything was veryhunky-dory, you know, we were

(04:12):
young and we ran around thestreets.
We never worried aboutkidnapping or being assaulted or
things like that.
I think we led a pretty good,safe lifestyle.
We had great education.
We used to attend the Agakhanschools in Uganda, in Kampala,

(04:36):
where I was born.
I was raised I was born inMasaka, in a small town not far
away from Kampala, and myparents worked very hard, as you
said.
You know, we were the ancestrallineage from our great
grandparents who had traveled intheir dows, their rocky boats,

(05:00):
to get across from India to theeast coast of Africa, where
settlement occurred, starting inZanzibar as the entry port and
then from there, asiansdispersed in different East
African countries, as there areso opportunities in Uganda, in

(05:25):
Kenya and in Tanzania.
But these were all differentprotectorates.
There was the Germanprotectorate and there was the
British protectorate and Ugandawas under the British
protectorate.
So English became more of theinfluence and the colonization

(05:47):
started in Uganda.

Gurasis (05:53):
You talked about protectorates right, And I
remember you sharing somethingelse, also being subjects and
protectorates.
Can you educate us a little bitabout that?

Rossbina (06:04):
Yeah, so when the time came to determine who were the
rightful residents of Uganda orthe rightful citizens of Uganda,
there was a whole processfamilies had to go through
before Uganda could accept whowas going to be able to stay and

(06:28):
who was not going to be able tostay in the country.
And this process meant thatthere were certain people.
The historical background wasthat there were certain people
who had entered Uganda.
Now I don't remember the exactdates, but in the 1900s if

(06:52):
Indians had immigrated to Ugandaat a certain date, they were
considered to be subjects of theBritish Empire And people who
had immigrated or out of birth,I guess residential process, as

(07:13):
generations progressed.
After a certain date they werecategorized as British
protectorates because at acertain point Uganda gained its
independence And after that theresidents became protectorates.
So there were these twocategories of subjects and

(07:35):
protectorates.
So my family was really aprotectorate because we were the
I think the third or the fourthgeneration in Uganda And based
on that category, we had toleave Uganda.

(07:56):
There was no protectionregardless, and the subjects,
the British subjects, had to beaccepted by Britain.
Right And British protectorateshad, or rather were given the
opportunity of other Canadian orrather other British countries

(08:24):
under the British Empire asprotectorates were given the
opportunity to take in therefugees.

Gurasis (08:31):
Thank you for explaining that Again.
You know we always come acrossthese new terms and I would like
to learn more about it as well.
As you know, tell my listenersmore and more about it.
So it's basically the divisionof, like a certain date, the
people who were a kind of partof Uganda, like us, from a
certain date, before a certaindate, were subjects and the ones
who were left, like after acertain date, were protectorates

(08:52):
.
So then, in 1972, you know thepresident announced this that
you have 90 days for all Asiansto kind of leave the country.
Do you have?
I remember you telling me youwere just like 14 or 15.
Do you have any memory?
Do you recall any memory ofthat moment when that
announcement was made?

Rossbina (09:12):
Yes, so we were in our homes.
There was already a lot ofturmoil and a lot of unrest that
was happening in the city.
A lot of whispers of be careful,stay in your homes.
There is a politicalinstability in our city And so

(09:36):
our parents of course ensuredthat we did not run around
freely or carelessly on theroads.
We managed to go to school likenormal students, but there was
extra precaution.
I think our parents were veryvigilant about protecting when

(10:01):
we were going back and forth toschool.
So we had what you calledAskaris, or informal African
security people who used to beemployed by the Asians.
So we had Askaris, we hadinformal chefs, we had informal

(10:26):
what you call domestic help.
So those were the kind of peoplewho became our immediate family
because we had employed themand for them it was their bread
and butter.
But more than that, we hadbuilt relationships with them.
So they ensured that when theywalked with us to school they

(10:53):
protected us.
So that was kind of nice to seethat this relationship was
about persons and humanity andnot about, oh you, brown people
at a local level.
But at the political level, yes, we were seen as brown and as

(11:15):
Asians and that we had to leave.
So I remember times when we, ifthere was a knock at the door
and if the police came orsomebody came to make any
inquiries or strangers came atthe door, my parents told us to

(11:36):
go and hide in a loft area,which was considered to be a
Russian storage area, and wewould hide in with our groceries
and the sacks of rice andpotatoes that were stored in the
upper roof in the dark area,and then they would come and get

(11:56):
us after people had left.

Gurasis (11:58):
So what was it Like they were?
they were, What were the peopleat that time like?
coming and checking on thefamilies?
Was that a situation there?

Rossbina (12:08):
Yes, there were police .
There was, yeah, all sorts ofinquiries coming to the homes
where they felt suspicious aboutcertain homes, either about
Asians or that particular familyplanning or getting ready to
leave in which case they wouldcome at the door and want to

(12:30):
loot the family from theirjewelry, from the cash, you know
things like that.
So, but we were quite protectedfrom all this external
information by parents becausethey did not want to load us

(12:51):
with too much stress.

Gurasis (12:52):
Absolutely yeah.

Rossbina (12:53):
As parents, they wanted to make sure that we felt
secured and not much was saidthen, but it was after the fact,
in a few years, that weunderstood how much stress our
parents had gone through.

Gurasis (13:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think if you were a teen atthat time, i can't even imagine
the state of mind of that tinykid.
You know at that moment And Ithink I remember you were
sharing that your siblings wereway younger than you like 10
years and I think two, threeyears younger than you And they
would also be like in a certaindilemma, that what is happening?

(13:32):
that why am I leaving myfavorite toys behind, or why am
I not going to see my friendsanymore, or why am I not going
to come back to this school I'mstudying in anymore, and that
could be a nightmare for themfor sure.
So my next question to youwould be you know, then it was
in October 1972.

(13:53):
It was a day of a blizzard whenyou landed in Canada and you
landed with tropical clothes.
Tell us a story behind thattropical clothes, and how was
your first day like?

Rossbina (14:08):
Yes.
So Uganda is right on theequator, so our weather pattern
is very tropical.
It's always warm, hot, rainyseason, etc.
We had never seen snow.
But the school that I went towe learned a lot of geography,
and to hear about us going toCanada was a thrill.

(14:32):
It became an adventure.
It was like a dream come true,not knowing the reason why we
were going to Canada.
So we just knew that all thewonderful things in these
developed countries aboutskyscrapers and elevators and

(14:55):
escalators and huge shoppingmalls and things like that, that
was the concept as a child.
As a teenager, the weather didnot dawn on us.
So when we had to pack two bagsper person, which was the
allowance?
Yeah, 44 pounds, that's it.

(15:17):
That was our allowance perperson to take whatever we
wanted to take.
So as a young child, perhaps mybooks were more precious, my
story books, maybe my littletrinkets of jewelry And favorite
clothes that were like sundresses Very, very basic,

(15:41):
because I came from an averagefamily.
We were not a wealthy family,we were an average family.
But, we were not poor either, sovery simple things mattered to
me.
So this fantasy of, oh yeah,everything is great, we are
flying on an airplane And it's awonderful experience to go

(16:04):
overseas, so, yeah, so thosewere the kind of tropical
clothes I came with.
Of course, for my father,photographs, memories, things
like that were more important tohim.
Perhaps his tools, because heused to repair his car and just

(16:25):
a few things like that Thosewere more important to him.
For my mom at one point shewanted to bring her sewing
machine because that was giftedto her as a wedding present from
her father, and so with whatlittle we had I think that's

(16:46):
what she wanted to transport isher sewing machine, which came
years later to find that it wasalmost like an antique piece
Years later, because sewingmachines in a developed country
are much more efficient andmodern than that old fashioned

(17:06):
pedal driven sewing machine.
So that was kind of funny.

Gurasis (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, but still it has been a.
We are seeing it from like a 15years old's perspective.
You know you're telling aboutyour understanding of the
situation at that time, but doyou again I'm going to emphasize
on that Do you recall what wereyour parents' reactions to

(17:32):
certain situations?
or what were their expressionson their faces?
like, like you said, they hadto leave their possessions and
I'm sure you would have had yourhouse there that you will never
see again, that property thatbelongs to you.
You won't be able to see itagain.
Do you have any memory of that?

Rossbina (17:50):
Yes, you're absolutely correct.
Leaving a home, leaving allyour memories, your belongings,
your all your life's work, and,yes, the struggles that you put
through that was very sad indeed.
Everything had to be leftbehind in the blink of an eye

(18:13):
And life security became mostimportant, saving ourselves
rather than the material things.
But as a child, what was mostsentimental and most emotional
for me was leaving our catbehind.
You know, that was very, verysad, and I remember writing an

(18:40):
essay to pass my Englishlanguage class in high school
because I needed to graduate inthe last three months, because I
was a Canadian graduate, aCanadian student graduate in
high school, and the only way myteacher could give me marks was
he gave me an opportunity towrite a freestyle essay and to

(19:05):
write about my experiencescoming to Canada.
But as I'm writing my essay ormy story, yes, i was very
emotional, i was crying at thattime.
So, although I had thesewonderful things that had come

(19:25):
to Canada, the fact that I hadleft my cat behind, that was
very emotional to me and veryprecious.
So things like that, you know,through storytelling, i think
that was a process of healingtoo, absolutely As a child.
So whoever this teacher was, hewas phenomenal, that he led me

(19:53):
as a student to grieve thatseparation and that loss through
writing, which was veryimportant to be able to talk
about it, you know, yeah.

Gurasis (20:06):
Yes, you're just learning to process all that is
happening around you is alsovery essential.

Rossbina (20:11):
Yeah, Right, because the reality struck upon arrival
into Canada and as we were givenopportunities to talk in front
of our class and to share ourexperience who we were as
Ugandans And how we have nowcome to Canada And how are we

(20:34):
going to be welcomed as refugeesin a classroom full of students
who are also 15 years old and14 years old, who don't even
have a concept today of whereNigeria is or where perhaps a

(20:54):
city in Canada is, of course,You know, because the level of
education is so poor that forthem to understand that, where
is Uganda?
who is this person, you know,kind of thing.
It was a lot to process forboth sides of the fence.

Gurasis (21:15):
I definitely want to go a little more into the cultural
shock aspect of it, but I justwant to go back for a quick
moment regarding, like, thepeople who were moving here.
So first, like, out of 80,000,not every application was
accepted And I believe just fewyears before 1972, i believe it
was like 1967 or so Canadaintroduced this point system for

(21:39):
the first time in the world.
Any country had done that.
Do you have any knowledge ofthat?
I believe you were supposed tohave at least 50 points out of
100, at least entered Canadaback then.
Do you have any knowledge of,like, what were the requirements
or what those 50 pointsconsists of?

Rossbina (21:58):
No, I'm not to be honest.
At that time I was not aware ofwhat this point system required
.
But 6,000 refugees wereaccepted into Canada at that
time And I believe there werepeople who could first of all

(22:20):
speak English number one, peoplewho had young families and
people who were probably singlemoms with children.
I think based on humanitariancriteria, Canada has always been
that way.
But towards the D-Day, I think,they relaxed some of these

(22:44):
rules because they knew thedanger and they realized how
serious Idi Amin was aboutkilling everybody who was left
behind.
So Canada at that point didrelax many, many rules to the
point where perhaps they werefurther analyzed and tweaked and

(23:08):
proclated to become a betterpolicy, because it was a
learning experience for them,for the ministers and the
government at that time, whichwas Prime Minister Elliot
Trudeau's Liberal Party and thegovernment in position at that

(23:28):
time.
And, yes, so over the years itwas refined and became more open
.

Gurasis (23:40):
So I was reading this one of the stories of a couple
and their name were Rai andShanta Sojani.
I'm not sure if you are awareof them.
I was reading their story andthey wrote in their story that
no sound was more welcome forthem than the lo-ham of the
aircraft's engine when they tookthat flight.
And they said that as theflight took off from the runway

(24:04):
in Antebebe, uganda, so did theburden that weighed heavy on
their shoulders And that, ithink, clearly articulates the
kind of environment they weretrying to live in.
The repercussion of everythingthat was happening in that
country And I think this alsokind of little bit represents

(24:27):
signifies the pain that theywere going through while
surviving in those 90 days.
And so, along with that,another thing, the person Shanta
.
She said that some of thebarriers she and her family
faced in finding housing andemployment, and including the
world, world harassment, shesaid they were also telling

(24:48):
their children that our skin isbrown and we have to work very
hard.
I want to know from you thatthis sentence played any role by
the time when you moved toCanada.

Rossbina (25:04):
So when we came to Canada, you're asking from the
Canadian perspective, correct?
Absolutely yeah Right so forCanadians, it was a new thing
also to see a surge of so-calledAsians or brown people come
into the country And, yes, theywere very, very protective about
their jobs, about their income,about their land, their space,

(25:32):
And in the beginning we were notwelcome at all.
They would brand us as pikes gohome, they would give us
derogatory looks and not bewelcoming at all.
But I think that was a lot todo with ignorance, Like they
were not educated enough to saythat.

(25:55):
Okay, who are these people andwhat is really happening?
And Asians generally were veryhardworking.
They saw opportunity here, youknow, and there was this energy
that they wanted to besuccessful.
And I don't know about otherfaith-based groups, but in the

(26:20):
Ismaili Muslim community, whichI belong to, our spiritual
father, his Highness PrinceKarim Aga Khan, had played a
very, very important role innegotiating the numbers of
Asians that can be accepted intoCanada.
So he had promised Canada thatthe Ismaili Muslim community

(26:46):
would not be a burden to CanadaAnd that once we were on our
feet given six months or two ayear that we would promise to
repay all our air flight costs,which we did.
We promised to pay our hotelaccommodations upon arrival here

(27:07):
until we were able to securejobs and any other such expenses
.
That was a burden on thegovernment And sure enough, yes,
like my family, we were able topay all of it in one year.
And following the Ugandanexpulsion, the ripple effect

(27:29):
occurred in Tanzania and Kenyaas well, and so a lot of people
took that opportunity to migrateAnd it became a flourishing
country where Asians started tocontribute to Canada.
So, whether you were of Sikhfaith or whether you were of

(27:53):
Christian faith or whether youwere Buddhist, regardless of
what nationality or ethnicorigin you were from, whether
you were Chinese or whether youwere Punjabi or whether you were
a Goan.
We all worked hard to regainour security and prove to Canada

(28:17):
that we were not what they hadthought we would be.
We were not what they you knowlike from the boonies or from
the jungles where we lived withanimals or we lived in huts or
things like that.
You know that we were aneducated population, that we all
spoke English, which to thisday has been the greatest gift

(28:43):
that I can possess.
I bet I don't have education.
I don't have universityeducation because I could never
afford to put myself throughuniversity, but throughout, as I
grew up here in Vancouver andin Calgary, it was my

(29:05):
volunteerism that became myschool of learning.
Although I could not attenduniversity, i never had that
formal education of acquiring adegree in anything, but it was
my volunteer work and my abilityto express myself and to

(29:25):
influence people in English thathas given me the credit to the
success that I am experiencingtoday.
I love my life.
I'm in a very comfortableposition at this point.
I married a wealthy man and Icontinue to volunteer, which is

(29:46):
my passion And I found a way tofulfill my promise because as a
teenager, when we were acceptedor when we were received in
Montreal at long point armybarracks I remember me being in
awe, thinking how kind of thesepeople to give us coats and

(30:11):
boots and mittens all for free.
And I told myself at that pointas a teenager one day I will
give back to Canada.
And when I came to thatmaturity and I found myself that
this is how I wanted to giveback was through volunteerism

(30:32):
that I had experienced successin a material format.
I married a wealthy man whoworked very hard to become
wealthy here And he permitted meto live my dream of to continue
to volunteer, which I didthroughout my life.

(30:56):
And today I run a non profitorganization which came from
that inspiration and that desireto help our seniors in the
community.

Gurasis (31:08):
Yeah, i definitely want to talk more about you know,
this organization that you havestarted, but I just want to just
be in a circle back on thepoint where you were telling us
about your experience ofstudying in a classroom and, you
know, getting those eyes andand having those experiences
where people not that aware in aclassroom, about different
cultures and beliefs, so to say.

(31:31):
But I wanted to tell us, like alittle bit, about any memorable
stories or anecdotes thathighlight the intersection of
your cultural heritage and yourjourney as a refugee in Canada.

Rossbina (31:44):
Well, one of the first things that come into my mind
are donuts.
Oh, my goodness, going into, wewere given what you call breaks
, not recess, as we called itrecess was the British word
where we had a long, a good hourto play and and enjoy free time

(32:06):
.
But these breaks were inbetween And so why people are?
while the students wouldtransit from one subject to
another subject as we moved intodifferent classrooms, they
would be eating donuts in thehallways, and that was

(32:28):
fascinating to me, thinkingyou're allowed to eat like this.
Yeah, that freedom and thefreedom of choice to be able to
express yourself.
So that was quite an eye openerfor me, and so I to adopted

(32:51):
being able to eat donuts and Ienjoyed that experience.
You know, to be with them, andat a certain point, yes, there
was so much freedom in theclassrooms that I would see the
other students have their feeton their desks And being rowdy,

(33:12):
things like that, which we hadnot experienced in Uganda as
British schools, because wealways had a monitor and our
behavior was always checked.

Gurasis (33:24):
I'm not sure you are even allowed to do that today in
a classroom, but you know it isdisrespectful.

Rossbina (33:34):
Yeah, but that happened.
This was in my high school Andbefore the teachers come, yes,
that there was all sorts ofrowdiness that was going on
jumping on the tables, skippingfrom one chair to the other.

Gurasis (33:52):
It was like before, when a when no professor is in
the classroom, it's then.
okay, then I understand.
I think I have seen that I'vewitnessed, is I've witnessed
myself those situations?
Okay, now I understand.

Rossbina (34:05):
Right, And when the teacher did arrive, I don't know
if it completely settled youknow, but anyhow, that was my
first impression of being in theclassroom.
The other, the other thing thatthat stuck in my head was
having lockers.
We were given this padlocks.

(34:26):
Yeah.
And we were given this littlespace to put our belongings in
there.
Our lunch, maybe, or yeah, this, this idea of taking lunch to
school, that that wasinteresting because in Uganda,
in the city where I come from,in Kampala, school was at a

(34:48):
walking distance, so we used towalk back home for lunch.
The concept of being able totake a bagged lunch to school,
which was not our traditionalcultural food, but it it
comprised of sandwiches andwater or juice or something like

(35:09):
that, a packaged item thatwould sustain us through the day
, So that was quite amusing Andwe looked forward to taking
different sandwiches to school.
So, and not to go home forlunch, because we had an
opportunity to mingle more withfriends and make friends and

(35:30):
play a little more at theplaygrounds, rather than going
home and coming back again.
You know yeah so that that wasan interesting concept.
So these lockers with padlocks,oh my goodness, i never
mastered it, but you have to goleft to go right and you have to
finally come to a center.

(35:50):
Absolutely.
I had lots of challenges withthat, but I remember my
classmates showing me withpatience how to open the lockers
.
So that was another thing.
And the other thing that reallyfascinated me at that time was
the accessibility of candy bars.

(36:12):
We call it candy here, butthese were sweets.
I love chocolates even to thisday.
So to be able to acquire achocolate bar in this mind
concept of currency at that timeit was only 10 cents a bar,

(36:37):
Whereas in Uganda it was 100shillings We could not afford a
chocolate bar over there.
But this concept of 10 cents,which was perhaps an equivalent
to 100 shillings there, I don'tknow, But the access of 10 cents

(36:57):
was very doable.
So here, yes, I was enjoying mychocolates and my donuts and
all those wonderful things.

Gurasis (37:11):
You talked about food and I think I always talk about
food a lot on my podcast becauseit's always interesting to know
about different foods thatpeople eat, even though your
family was of Indian origin.
but did you guys used to eatthe regular staple Indian food
at your house in Uganda, or wasit like something else?

Rossbina (37:28):
In Uganda we always had Indian cultural food.
However, because we lived inAfrica and we had access to the
staples of homegrown agriculturethere, a lot of it became a
fusion of foods and flavors.

(37:49):
So a lot of our food EastAfrican food is with coconut for
instance, although we use ourtraditional spices, the Asian
spices of the Masala and theturmerics and chili pepper, and

(38:09):
all that with the African fusion.
yes, it became quiteinteresting.
So today in Canada, if you hadto explore different cuisines,
there was this the finedifference between a Punjabi

(38:29):
cuisine as opposed to an EastAfrican cuisine or as opposed to
South Indian cuisine.
Very different flavors, andthat is the richness and the
celebration of diversity in ourcountry.
To appreciate that even we didnot know, because all we knew at

(38:53):
then was the East African foodand the Gujarati food.
But over here we learned how todifferentiate the different
flavors.
So that's, interesting.

Gurasis (39:09):
yes, Apart from that, were there any moments or
incidents that stood out to youas difficult or surprising to
adjust to?

Rossbina (39:19):
Definitely university education for me.
I did not have the money.
We came from small schools,small in the sense, small
classroom size, so we were notmore than 25 or 30 students in
each classroom and our schoolswere more compact.

(39:40):
So all of a sudden, if thisopportunity, or when this
opportunity came by for me toattend UBC, which was in
Vancouver, and I only had threemonths of high school education

(40:02):
from New Westminster High SchoolAnd this New Westminster High
School was huge, oh my goodness.
It went from grade one to grade12.
It was a huge school And justto get used to that atmosphere

(40:26):
was a little overwhelming.
So after three months, after Igraduated as a high school
Canadian student and I appliedto go to university, that campus
was like a city within a city.
That was very hard for me tograsp and to be able to now walk

(40:53):
buildings, faculty buildings inwhich case sometimes it took us
20 minutes to get to walk fromone building to another And just
driving into the campus,because I remember my teacher

(41:15):
supporting me with car rides andshe would drive for ages until
we'd come to a parking lot andthen she would point me out the
building that I was going to.
Oh, my goodness that was veryoverwhelming.
And I just I could not gothrough that for some reason.

(41:37):
And even the tuition, payingfees that was a new concept.
My parents could not afford topay my fees, as we were new
refugees, we were justrebuilding our lives and
university fees were very high.
And so, after that first yearuniversity experience, i was a

(42:02):
dropout.
I only had about six months ofthat experience going to
university And I told myself no,i would not be able to do this.
And, being the eldest in thefamily, i did take on part time
jobs to see if I could putmyself through university, and

(42:25):
that became very difficultbecause finding a job and
working at a job became more ofa thrill than actually going to
university.
Here I was earning cash, moneythat I could do something with
it.
I was able to contribute to therent to the house or able to

(42:46):
buy myself that simple chocolatethat I would want.
That personal freedom for right, instead of asking for it.

Gurasis (42:56):
What kind of jobs you took on.

Rossbina (42:59):
So my very first job was working at McDonald's.
I must say that that was thebest experience, because at that
time McDonald's used to givethis training that the customer
always comes first.
You never argue with thecustomer, that they are always

(43:23):
right.
And if they, if you heard anycomplaints about the food, you
simply accepted it, took thatbag, trashed it right away and
replaced it with a new serving,a fresh serving.
So customer service, thehospitality that was ingrained

(43:47):
in me right away, became mycareer henceforth, you know, to
work with the hospitalityindustry And my other job after
that, because I was a verypeople person, i liked to
interact and I, and because myEnglish was good and I loved the

(44:09):
concept of travel, because thatwas a bug in me somewhere.
You know, as a growing child,that I wanted to see the world.
You know, going to UK for, forfor your further studies was
such a novelty and only thewealthy students would were able

(44:31):
to travel to UK and go touniversity and school over there
, and my family could neverafford to send me there.
And here I was, you know,experiencing or having this
opportunity now to go touniversity and experience, you
know, upgraded education, but Iwas not able to afford it And

(44:56):
instead the cash became moreloved, you know.
And so I worked around theclock.
You know, i worked in hotels asa front desk receptionist at
the Hyatt Hotel, but I startedoff being a switchboard operator
And pretty soon they saw thepromise in me and they promoted

(45:20):
me to the front desk.
From that I became a tour guideof Vancouver in the bus And my
experience following that careerpath into the hospitality led
me to, in my older years, totell myself that, okay, since I

(45:42):
love traveling and I did mytravel as a teenager, at my
first opportunity I traveledEurope.
I came back and I told myself Iknow what I wanna do now.
I was going to become a travelconsultant And with this travel
consultancy, the challenges thatyou go through working for

(46:03):
employers where they want toreplace you after so many years,
or as a business person theyfeel that, okay, there wasn't
much income created in thebusiness led me to changing jobs
a couple of times, to finallyowning my own place.

(46:26):
So I owned and I started my owntravel agency with my friend
who would encourage me to say mygosh, rosbina, you have so much
talent, you have so much togive.
I think you'd be better offrunning your own place, and so
two of us became partners and weran our agency, which I called

(46:51):
Orbit Travel, and many, manypeople still remember me in
Vancouver for those years ofservice that I offered as a
travel consultant.

Gurasis (47:01):
Yes, sounds very, very inspiring.
You did not give up at anystage of a life, i believe.
Everything that came your way,every hurdle, you have crossed
it, you have gone past throughit and you have achieved it,
whatever you wanted to.
I absolutely love your story,rosbina, it's a pleasure having
you on the podcast.

(47:21):
I would say And tell me, afterhow long did your refugee status
change to a resident?
I believe Yes.

Rossbina (47:30):
So within three years.
We were all refugees here untilthe three years.
So the PR changed into theCanadian citizenship right away
at that time.
But things are a little bitdifferent now.

Gurasis (47:48):
Oh, yeah, very different.

Rossbina (47:50):
Certain refugees come with immediate status, right,
but so things were tweaked alongthe way And let me tell you
that Canada has come a long,long way with its immigration
strategy because in those years,in the 70s, we did not have

(48:11):
enough immigrant serviceproviding agencies, service
providing agencies to guide us.
So we were like the blind anddefaulted, like in my case.
I became a dropout student fromuniversity, so, and many
individuals could not practicetheir careers from being what do

(48:39):
you call physicians andengineers.
they ended up doing other kindof roles jobs, labor, jobs or
management jobs And they createdtheir own businesses and became
business people rather thanfollowing their careers.
So that was that resiliencethat we all experienced.

(49:00):
But today Canada has developedmany, many, many different types
of service providing agenciesto support children, families,
youths, women, seniors,newcomers like professionals,

(49:24):
people who come with degreesfrom international countries
international countries.
They get supported now withaccreditation.
So these were the words we hadnever heard about at that time,
but now it's a big thing Andalso because, as we are aging

(49:45):
and we are more exposed to thereality of the working class
people or the real life peopleas opposed to the children, we
are now being exposed to allthis and we develop our
vocabulary accordingly.
But definitely today's refugeesand immigrants have a definite

(50:10):
advantage than what we had many,many years ago.

Gurasis (50:16):
I mean, of course, back then, like I said, it was just
for the first time they came upwith this point system
immigration and I think theywere dealing with refugees,
probably for the first time inthe history.
So that's why I think Canadahas come a long way, and I think
for the better.
it has definitely made thingsvery easy for immigrants to
immigrate here.
That has become more welcomingand just to hold the pathway of

(50:39):
becoming a citizen is also, iwould say, easier.
what it was like 50 years agoprobably?
Speaking of 50 years, tell usabout that event.
I think you were telling methat you celebrated your
completion of 50 years in Canada, the whole 50,000 people who
end up moving here.
Tell us about that.

Rossbina (50:59):
So this year depicts our 50 years of settlement in
Canada And since the beginningof the year different
communities, different ethnicgroups in different cities
nationally have been celebratingreunions.
They've been reminiscing abouttheir hometown or they have

(51:21):
traveled back to go and visit tosee what it's like.
Because after I got married andafter I had my two children
about 14, 15 years ago, I too,was able to travel back to
Uganda with my husband and mychildren to educate them to

(51:47):
where we were from, to show themthe roots, and it was a very
emotional experience.
The moment I went by my schoolover there, i remember breaking
down and I was crying And I toldmyself why is this happening to
me?
I could not understand.

(52:09):
When I went back to we lived,our home, which was now
surrounded by overgrown treesand unkept vegetation because it
was neglected.
It was all run down and I toldmyself, oh my God, we lived here

(52:30):
, things like that.
So it was a very emotionalexperience for me then.
So I can understand how manypeople enjoyed reminiscing and
reliving their childhood ortheir memories, and many, many

(52:53):
films, lots of books have beenwritten by these Asians as
personal experiences.
His historians have writtenbiographies.
One young fellow in Edmonton bythe name of Alim Karmali did a

(53:14):
film, a documentary film on, andit's called Throne into Canada.
So it was quite an interestingpreview.
When we watched this film last,i would say was it August,
september, i can't remember, butit has captivated this

(53:37):
experience of the Ugandanexpulsion and the testimonials
of what people went through.
And then, of course, we havehad many or several television
prominent people who havetraveled back with their parents

(53:58):
and have filmed and have toldstories and have been able to
broadcast it on television.
So perhaps the education aboutthe Ugandan expulsion is a
little more, or the awareness ismore now than what it was
before.
I do remember, however, thatafter our three years of being

(54:22):
in Canada, ottawa had created asymposium, the Ugandan symposium
where they had archived many,many photographs from different
individuals and memories andstories.
So I remember giving my story,my newspaper article, my essay

(54:46):
of Thanks a Million, idi Amin.
it is archived in the Ugandansymposium museum, there
historical museum, and I wasalso reading that it's even in
the Carlton University's library.

Gurasis (55:01):
A lot of those archives and stories are mentioned in
there.

Rossbina (55:07):
Exactly, And just yesterday the Ismaili community
is celebrating the 50 years ofthe Ismaili settlement in Canada
.
So we have this travelingexhibition that's going across
Canada And this is not onlyabout the Ugandan settlement,

(55:31):
but it's the settlement of theAfghan people, the Syrians who
belong to that Ismaili Muslimfaith who also came, and how we
ended up supporting theirsettlement through our learnings
And yeah, so it's quiteinteresting.

(55:53):
It was very beautiful yesterdayto see a whole perspective and
how everybody feels thisgratitude of being in a
welcoming country and being ableto pursue their dreams and
opportunities to explore.

Gurasis (56:13):
And I think, all in all , it was a blessing in disguise
and it all worked in your favor,yeah.

Rossbina (56:21):
Definitely, of course, because I remember when we
traveled to Uganda and theimmigration person, he looks at
our passport and he says Oh, youare born here, because it says
born your Canadian passport,your birthplace.

(56:42):
Okay.
And the immigration officer.
He was a black African.
He says My goodness, welcomeback to Uganda.
Maybe you should be stayinghere with us again, you know?
and to that I responded verytruthfully, saying that no,

(57:03):
canada is our home now.
Wonderful things have happened,this was a good life here in
Uganda, but it cannot exceedwhat we are living through in
Canada and what Canada isoffering us now.
So that that was quite arebuttal there.

Gurasis (57:28):
So, speaking of offerings in Canada, you have
also not stopped, and, like yousaid, you promised to your 15
years old self when you camehere, and you said that you were
overwhelmed by the acts ofkindness that people were
showing towards you.
You said to yourself that oneday I will return this kindness

(57:52):
to Canada.
And something else youmentioned to me earlier, which
was that wishes do come true.
That was my wish, andespecially when wishes are
dreamt with good intentions.
And so that's what was we nowled you to start focus on
seniors, to enhance the qualityof life of seniors by inspiring,
supporting and integratingolder adults and engaging them

(58:16):
in a holistic program thatenriches their mind, body and
spirit.
That's what I read, that's whatI know.
Tell us all about it that youcan share with our listeners and
with me.

Rossbina (58:29):
Oh yeah, focus on seniors is my baby now for sure.
I have two grown boys in their30s now who are independent,
doing their own thing, workwise,but that led me to having an
empty nest once they finisheduniversity and they were gone.
Yeah, and I continued myvolunteering because

(58:52):
volunteering is, as youunderstand, in your faith, in
the Sikh community, it's a sehwaAnd that is the word we also
share with the Ismaili Muslimcommunity.
The word sehwa is is true,volunteerism, but it's faith

(59:13):
based.
That aligned this sehwa that wedo internally in our churches
and in our mosques and ourtemples.
It made me to understand, orwork a little more deeper into
my feelings, to say that I wouldlike to spread this sehwa

(59:33):
externally now.
No, i did not know the wordabout the nonprofit at that
point.
What was a charitableorganization?
I had never heard of that untilI actually defaulted into that,

(59:53):
you know, because I told myselfthat my mother was going
through a post trauma depression, my father had passed away and
she was going through all thismedical issues and understanding
her aging now as a matureperson, as an adult person who

(01:00:18):
also has children.
Now I started to see claritywith life and I decided that
that's what I needed to do wasto support seniors that we had
fallen through the cracks,especially the Ugandan Asians.
They had worked very, very hardthrough all this time that they

(01:00:44):
were in Canada.
It took them 30, 40 years toexperience success and stability
in their lives.
Today's immigrant willexperience success within 10
years and immigration is workingtowards achieving success

(01:01:06):
within 5 to 7 years now, so thegap is closing.
But our Asian seniors wentthrough a very rough time by
working very hard in the 40years that they had.
So they lost out on theintegration piece, on enjoying

(01:01:27):
life as Canadians and benefitingfrom certain, i would say,
material benefits or financialbenefits being Canadians,
because we were always led tobelieve never to take from the
government.
So, yes, and here is anotheraging person that I saw things a

(01:01:51):
little bit differently and Itold myself no, i am here to
give myself of my time, myknowledge and my energy.
And so when I started tovolunteer for my mother and the
neighborhood seniors, prettysoon I found my path.
That was my compass And because, by through my volunteering, i

(01:02:15):
was always a religious educationteacher, i did volunteer work,
i did community work All theseexperiences led me to think that
, yes, seniors were likechildren.
I had all this knowledge andthis was all transferable skills

(01:02:37):
And to this day I thank mycommunity for giving me
opportunities to work in certainaspects of community
development within ourfaith-based area and how I was
then able to translate myknowledge into external

(01:02:58):
volunteering, which I thoroughlyenjoy.
So the word focus is an acronymF, dot, o, dot, c, dot, u, dot,
s, dot.
That's an acronym And that wasdeliberately chosen from my
faith-based teachings.
What is my faith teaching mehere?

(01:03:20):
Yes, f is to foster friendshipswith other people.
O is for opportunities forpersonal growth.
Always remain in continuallearning cycle.
Learning never stops.
See for community involvement.
How are you going to integrateyourself?

(01:03:43):
How are you going to continueto volunteer?
So community involvement isthrough volunteering and I will
be that role model as long as Ican speak.
U is for unity.
Isn't that what Canada is allabout?
Whether you're a Sikh, whetheryou're a Chinese person, whether

(01:04:03):
you're an African, nigerian,whether you're Christian, does
it really matter?
We need to be a united CanadaAnd synergy.
I can't do this by myself.
This may be my vision and mymission, but I need other people
around me to help me expeditemy mission and vision.

(01:04:25):
So I need other nonprofitorganizations, other
collaborations, business people,other volunteers to support me
in my endeavor.
So I feel very blessed that Ihave found this niche and that I
have found this extremelyfulfilling compass in my life,

(01:04:48):
that I would not trade it forany education today, because
this is my education hands onand I'm very grateful for this
divine grace that I haveaccepted this seva, this
volunteer work that I do And Ilove it.

(01:05:09):
It makes me wake up to it everysingle day with a new look or a
new inspiration or a newinsight.

Gurasis (01:05:21):
For the non-Indians or the people who don't understand
the meaning of the word seva.
it actually means a selflessservice And it's been a.
I think it's such a phenomenalinitiative that you have started
and something you said in thebeginning, which is so true that
often, when younger members ofthe house are out working or

(01:05:41):
studying, seniors findthemselves at home and isolated.
And I think that is where thefocus on seniors comes in And,
like I said, for the synergy tohappen, you need people to join
your mission and vision.
So where did people can connectwith you, Rasbeena?

Rossbina (01:05:59):
So focus on seniors is not a visible organization at
the moment.
The reason being is I work frommy home.
I've used up my garage space toevery closet to the whole of my
lower level area.
Everything around focus onseniors.
So people don't see me as abusiness At the moment.

(01:06:26):
People hear of us through ourinteractions with various events
.
So because we are not clinical,we are not here to take on
social workers' jobs orpsychology or doctors' jobs.
We are not clinical that way.

(01:06:46):
However, we are communitydevelopers.
So when we focus on seniors,our programs, we ensure that we
are offering social, educational, recreational and
cross-cultural activities.
And why do we do this?

(01:07:08):
Because we want to inspire anddevelop our seniors
intellectually, physically,emotionally and spiritually.
So if you were to have across-cultural activity and say,
for example, i will do a visitto the Guru Dwarah with them,

(01:07:32):
that is a spiritual enhancementas well as a cross-cultural
enhancement.
Absolutely.
If we went to visit a Jewishsynagogue, that's exactly what
it is.
It's a learning component, it'sa cross-cultural activity.
Upcoming July 1st is Canada Day.
Normally.

(01:07:53):
Traditionally, we wouldcelebrate Canada Day as Canada
Day Canadians.
This time, asian Heritage Monthis collaborating with our City
of Calgary to say that we wouldlove to celebrate Canada Day
with you, but let's have anAsian component to say how have

(01:08:17):
Asians contributed to Calgaryand to Canada Number one?
and to ask Asians and to askourselves what would be Canada
without you?
I think that is such a profoundstatement What would Canada be
without me today?
So, in a very small way, iwould reply to it oh my God,

(01:08:45):
yeah, i have definitelycontributed to Canada.
I have definitely contributed tomy community, my neighbourhood
here, by supporting our seniors.
So that is a great feeling, yes, and if every individual asked
that question like, look at youtoday, look at how much time you

(01:09:06):
are spending in what you aretrying to create, bringing
awareness to differentcross-cultural ethno-cultural
communities or to Canada ingeneral, that is spreading
education, and you could giveyourself a little tap on your
shoulder to congratulateyourself, to say this is what I

(01:09:28):
am doing to contribute to Canada.

Gurasis (01:09:31):
Yeah, absolutely Thank you for saying that.
But even like, a initialquestion was like where can
people connect with you?
If anybody wants to join you,where they can connect with you?

Yes, so we have just developed our website.
It's called FocusOnSeniorsca.
We have our email address.
We have a phone number, thetraditional way, because not
everybody can navigate websitesand Facebooks and Instagrams and

(01:10:06):
whatnot, which we have thatsocial media development
occurring, they can also reachus traditionally with our phone.
So we have all these differentways of doing so.
I do want to mention, gurahSingh, that we are co-ed,
meaning we do serve both men andwomen.

(01:10:29):
Number one What we are workingon, or wish we could develop
this, are different translationmodes on the website where
people can understand, which wehave not grown to that yet.
We need volunteers to help uscreate translations, but we have

(01:10:52):
a lot of photos, pictorials andvisuals to assist.
Say, for example, an Afghanperson who cannot speak English
at all or cannot recognizenumbers, but hopefully, through
word of mouth or through areferral, they will be attracted

(01:11:14):
to connect with FocusOnSeniorsAnd then we use Hindi as our
common language base to workwith them.
But yes, we work on a one-to-one, as well as small initiatives
with 10-15 persons to as largeas 300 and 500 collaborative

(01:11:39):
events.

Gurasis (01:11:40):
And to all my listeners .
links to check the F.
O.
C.
U.
S.
On Seniors website and othercan be found in the show notes.
So, Rossbina, now we are in thefinal segment of the podcast.
I call it 'Beneath the Accent'because we are knowing each
other beneath the accent.
I'm going to ask you a coupleof questions.
You can answer them in one word, or a sentence, or house, or

(01:12:02):
whatever you feel like.
The idea is just to know moreabout you.
So the first question is what'sthis one habit you adopted that
has changed your life?
Being open?
Is this something you recentlybought that you now regret?

I don't have much regret because I'm not a shopper
, i'm not materialistic.
Yeah, i don't invest in goldand jewelry and things like that
.
I'm not that person at all.
No, i don't regret buyinganything.

Gurasis (01:12:34):
So what's next on your bucket list?

Boy, do I have lots to say about that.
I definitely want to grow thisorganization that started
informally FocusOnSeniors.
I want to leave it as a legacy.
I really want to see thisorganization grow And whatever
it takes, i know that anorganization will not survive

(01:13:01):
truly as a volunteer-basedorganization.
It will need staff, it needssustainability And I want to
grow it.
So first things first.
Yes, i definitely need anexecutive director to take over
and with that formal leadership,somebody has to pay this

(01:13:27):
educated executive director tomove the organization to a
direction of legacy andsustainability.
So I need help.
I need people to mentor me now,to say okay, rosbeena, we are
here behind you, go for this.

Gurasis (01:13:45):
That's very modest of you to say that you need mentor
now.

No, i do seriously, because now this organization
has to be run as a business, asa nonprofit, sustainable
organization, although 80% of itis SEWA.
it cannot thrive just on thatnow.
And, of course, travel.

(01:14:10):
I need to travel somewhere.
I'm so desperately wanting acultural experience.
I haven't had a chance totravel anywhere and I love
traveling.

Gurasis (01:14:21):
So who's your go-to person when you feel stuck?

Oh my gosh, there are several people I will think of,
but truly it would be withinmyself.
It's a little prayer in silence, and funny enough, because I'm
so convinced that this is adivine grace, that this blessing

(01:14:46):
has been bestowed on me, that Iwill get my answers from the
creator.
He led me to doing this.
I will get answers from that,but without me to cliche about
it.
Yes, we need human direction,and the kind of people I will

(01:15:08):
look towards are definitelypeople who are experts in these
fields And I will find my way.
So there is no one specificperson, but on an ongoing basis,
different people come into yourlives And they just appear and
solve these problems for you,and I call that divine grace.

Gurasis (01:15:34):
Beautiful answer.
Love that.
Okay, are there any movies,raspina, that you'd like to
watch over and over again?

Yes, name few.
Lately I have gotten into theseTurkish movies.
Oh, my goodness, i thinkbecause as a faith-based, as a
Muslim person, i can share alittle bit of historical culture

(01:16:01):
in them.
Number one there are some wordssometimes match our Indian
words.
There is also the filming orthe story lines behind some of
these Turkish episodes.

(01:16:23):
They're so beautiful, veryfamily-oriented, like, for
example, there were 300 episodeson this last film, or the
episodes that I watched onYouTube.
It was called Bride of IstanbulAnd wow, what a beautiful
series it was.
And then the other one was morehistorical, which was Ertugrul

(01:16:50):
Renaissance, and that showed howit was a group of these few
people, heroes of Islam, of theOttoman Empire how they saved
Turkey.
So I love watching historicalfilms, yeah, and definitely I'm

(01:17:11):
not too much into fiction, verymuch cultural.
Yes, i love to watch thingslike that.

Gurasis (01:17:20):
And if you could have one superpower, what would it be
?

Oh, i dream of Jeannie .
If I could have a twitch in mynose and one of those things
that she used to do and poof.
Everything comes to reality.
That would be my superpower ifI had to have that.

Gurasis (01:17:44):
Describe Canada in one word or a sentence.

Beloved.
I wrote a poem actually on thistitle.
It was called Beloved, so mypoem was titled Beloved, and I
wrote this as a Canadian and asan Israeli Muslim Okay, thanking

(01:18:10):
both my worlds, my physicalworld and my spiritual world.

Gurasis (01:18:15):
So, finally, if you could leave me with one piece of
advice, what would it be?

I would say live for today, for today, don't have any
regrets, because regrets arelearning experiences, but to
repeat them would be stupid,absolutely And just.
yeah, i'm a little airheaded,but, yes, travel the world.

(01:18:45):
I would want to travel lots.
Yeah.
I love everybody.
Yeah, i miss traveling.

Gurasis (01:18:56):
Awesome, thank you.
Thank you so much, roswina, forbeing on the podcast, sharing
your story and educating us alittle more.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast and adding value to
my listeners.
Thank you.

Thank you so much for your time, grasses.
It was quite an engagingepisode.
Absolutely, yeah, good, welldone.

Gurasis (01:19:21):
Hey listener, thank you for making it to the end.
I highly, highly appreciate youlistening to the podcast.
Subscribe to the podcast if youhaven't as yet, and please
share with your friends oranybody you think would like it.
And, like I always say, weencourage you to follow your
heart but also ask.
On Instagram, the handle is mythick accent.
You can also leave us a reviewor write to us at hello at my

(01:19:46):
thick accentcom.
So stay tuned and let'scontinue knowing each other
beneath the accent.

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Triumph Over Adversity: Ugandan Refugee Stories | Ft. Rossbina Nathoo Ep. 036

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Triumph Over Adversity: Ugandan Refugee Stories | Ft. Rossbina Nathoo Ep. 036