September 18, 2025 • 35 mins
Today, we dive into the transformative world of American healthcare with Donovan Pyle, a true trailblazer in the field. As the CEO of Health Compass Consulting and the author of "Fixing Healthcare," Donovan reveals how hidden conflicts and misaligned incentives are draining billions from our healthcare system. He’s here to guide us on a smarter, data-driven path that can save employers money while still providing quality care for their employees. We'll explore the crucial need for unbiased advice in navigating the complex landscape of healthcare benefits and how executives can reclaim wasted resources. So buckle up for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the status quo and offers real solutions for a better future in healthcare!
The healthcare landscape in America is rife with challenges, and in this compelling episode of Narrative Voices, Donovan Pyle reveals the deep-seated issues that plague the system. As the CEO of Health Compass Consulting and the author of the upcoming book 'Fixing Health Care', Donovan brings a wealth of knowledge about the misaligned incentives that lead to billions of dollars wasted each year within healthcare spending. He articulates that for many businesses, especially mid-sized ones, the reliance on traditional brokers has led to a lack of clarity and accountability in how health benefits are managed. With about 164 million Americans receiving healthcare through their employers, Donovan argues that executives must understand the true cost of their healthcare decisions.
Throughout our conversation, Donovan shares powerful anecdotes and insights, urging listeners to recognize that healthcare should not merely be viewed as a cost but as a strategic asset. He encourages businesses to seek out unbiased consulting services that prioritize the employer's goals and the health of their employees. Donovan's perspective challenges the status quo and invites executives to break free from the complacency that has characterized the industry for too long. He highlights the importance of transparency and informed decision-making, emphasizing that small changes can lead to significant improvements in both costs and employee outcomes.
As the episode unfolds, Donovan reflects on the mentors who have influenced his path and the lessons learned along the way. His engaging storytelling and practical advice make this episode not only informative but also inspiring. Listeners are left with a clear call to action: to embrace change, seek knowledge, and take charge of their healthcare strategies. Donovan's passion for improving the healthcare system is palpable, and his insights are a beacon for those looking to navigate the complexities of health benefits effectively.
Takeaways:
- Donovan Pyle discusses the significant waste in American healthcare, highlighting that employers waste about $300 billion annually due to misaligned incentives and ineffective brokerage practices.
- He emphasizes the importance of getting unbiased advice for healthcare procurement, advocating for management consulting firms that prioritize the interests of employers and their employees.
- The conversation explores how executives can transform healthcare from being just a cost to a strategic asset that enhances employee satisfaction and company profitability.
- Donovan mentions the historical context of employer-provided healthcare benefits, tracing its roots back to World War II and how it has evolved into the current system.
- The episode addresses the need for a mindset shift among executives, encouraging them to engage actively in healthcare conversations to reclaim wasted resources and improve employee benefits.
- Donovan shares inspiring success stories from clients, showcasing how simple changes in healthcare strategies can lead to significant savings and better care for employees.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:49):
So today on Narrative Voices,we are joined by a trailblazer who
is challenging the status quoin American healthcare. Donovan Pyatt
is the CEO of Health CompassConsulting, a senior advisor at the
Validation Institute, and isthe author of an eye opening book,
Fixing Health Care HowExecutives Can Save Their People,
Their Businesses and theEconomy. With insider knowledge and
(01:12):
a bold voice, Donovan exposesthe hidden conflicts and misalignment
incentives that drain billionsfrom our healthcare systems while
offering employers a smarterdata driven pathway. His work has
been featured in EmployeeBenefit News, Yahoo. Finance and
beyond, making him one of themost compelling thought leaders in
the benefit benefits phase.Today, get ready for a conversation
(01:36):
that could change the way youthink about health care business
and the power of informedleadership. We welcome him to the
podcast.
Great to be here. Thanks forhaving me.
Good to have you on. So let'sdive right in here with my favorite
question. What's the bestpiece of advice you've ever received?
The best piece of advice I'veever received is probably from someone
(01:59):
who is very active in my BoyScout troop as a young man. And he
said Dennis Klamowski was hisname and I haven't thought of his
name in a long time, but greatguy. And you know, before I was heading
off to college, he said,listen, you know, if plan A doesn't
(02:22):
work, just go with plan B andif plan B doesn't work, go with plan
C and on and on and on, justkeep going. And I think, you know,
that's just really sage advicefor anyone at any stage of life because,
you know, you just got to stayin the game and things are never
going to go exactly how youwant them to or how you planned for
(02:45):
them to go. But you just gotto be, you know, adaptable and just,
just go with the flow to somedegree because there's so many things
that are out of our control.We control, you know, we can do quite
a few things, but there's somuch that is just completely out
of our control. So you justgotta roll with it. And that's, that's.
That served me well.
I love that. And that's sotrue because, you know, I think I
(03:06):
grew up, I was told that, youknow, you know, life will give you
lemons. You can make lemonadeout of it or just be sour.
Absolutely, absolutely, 100%.
So I'm curious, Donovan, canyou think about, in your life, in
your journey, who are somepeople who came alongside you and
served as a mentor or aninspiration for you in your journey?
(03:28):
Well, I, I've been I've beenblessed. I mean, I've had so many
just wonderful people in mylife, friends, family, etc. Colleagues.
So I, you know, that's,there's, there's a number of ways
I could go. But I would say,you know, I think the people that
really affect you the most arethe ones that believe in you, that
(03:49):
really say, listen, you know,get that, give you confidence. So
my uncle, my Uncle Vince beingone of them, he was a serial entrepreneur
and you know, he was justincredibly confident, not only in
himself and, but and othersand of the American people. And so
I think that's, you know,confidence is such a valuable thing
(04:12):
because it serves you so well,especially when you're going through
difficult times. So, yeah, myUncle Vince was certainly one of
them. I had a number ofprofessors in college that were also
very, very influential andencouraging and of course, you know,
lucky to have great parents.That's, you know, instilled a similar
(04:33):
ethos and confidence. So, yes,blessed in more ways than I can count.
That's awesome. I love that. Ilove to give people opportunity.
Just kind of think about thepeople that have impacted their lives
and we don't always get achance to say thank you or even recognize
them. So here was your chancejust to kind of, you know, lift up
those people who have been soimportant to you. So I'm glad you
were able to share that.
(04:53):
Yeah, thank you for that.
So let's talk about yourjourney into healthcare. I mean,
we don't all. We may run intohealthcare at some point, whether
we want to or not. But tell usabout your journey into healthcare
consulting. What inspired youto write Fixing Healthcare?
Sure. So just to level set foryour audience, about half of the
(05:13):
citizens of the United States,about 164 million Americans, receive
their healthcare benefitsthrough, through their employer.
So their employer is veryinfluential in how they purchase
healthcare, how much they payfor it, the access that they have,
et cetera. And this all cameout of World War II when the government
(05:37):
froze wages, but the unionsnegotiated that employers could provide
benefits on a tax advantagebasis during that time. And that's
how this whole employeebenefits industry started, kind of
by accident. But, yeah, so,but the shocking thing is, is that
(05:57):
in the current state of thesystem and the architecture of it,
employers spend $1.3 trilliona year on healthcare. But 25% of
that, roughly $300 billion ayear is being wasted. And so there's,
there's. And it's being wastedprimarily for something that we call
the brokerage blind spot. Inthe book. And that's really, you
(06:20):
know, what the challenge andopportunity that the book was intended
to highlight so thatexecutives can really reclaim that
money.
So I love this health caretalk because I have a lot of people,
I hear a lot of things abouthealth care and there's all kind
of debates. Is, is theemployee, you know, the employee
based better or is we, shouldwe go to a system where everybody's
(06:44):
on Medicare, Medicaid? As youlook at this, the healthcare system,
if you were trying to find away, you talk about, you know, fixing
it. What, what's the, youwould say like the magic bullet to
really fix the broken system?
Yeah. So I mean, you know, thescope of the book isn't all encompassing.
This isn't to say there's a,and frankly, I don't think there
(07:05):
should be a one size fitsolution for a country of 330 million
people.
Right.
I think that's just on itsface, just not, not a practical notion.
But, you know, so given thestate of how, you know, half the
country gets their health carebenefits through their employer,
(07:26):
that's really the focus of mybook. And so, you know, the first
step in a company's healthcaretransformation is getting unbiased
advice. Okay. So you thinkabout it, you know, if you're a mid
sized business and you know,I'm a business owner, you're probably
a business owner. There'sprobably a number of them on the
(07:48):
call listening. You know, ifyou don't understand US Tax policy
and you don't want to keep upwith the annual changes of U.S. tax
policy, you hire an outsideexpert who is keeping up with all
of those things. You hire acpa, right, so that they cover your
(08:08):
blind spots and they protectyou. They tell you the things that
you don't know so that youdon't end up paying more than you
should. But, and so that makesperfect sense. And businesses outsource
functions all the time wherethey don't have in house expertise
and you know, in legalservices and accounting, etc. So
they outsource these thingsand that makes perfect sense. The
(08:31):
difference though inhealthcare is that 81% of businesses
rely on benefits brokers andthey expect benefits brokers to help
them maximize the return ontheir benefits investment. And that
all makes perfect sense. Butthey do this without realizing in
most cases that the brokerageindustry doesn't work for them. The
(08:54):
brokerage industry wasdeveloped by insurance companies
back in, back in the 1940s toserve as distribution, to simply
sell products. Right. Move asmuch product as possible and we will
reward you accordingly. And sothat's a very different value proposition
from helping employers get themost value for their money. Right.
(09:18):
So brokers sell products butthey're not incentivized to actually
help employers get the mostvalue for their money. That's not
what they do. And so, youknow, one of the things that we highlight
in the book is, is the historyof how, how this whole system came
to be. You know, how didinsurance companies come to be? They're
(09:39):
really, I mean they're only 90years old. It's really a modern construct.
And the same thing with thebrokerage industry. It never used
to be this way and it doesn'thave to continue being this way.
So we show, you know, webasically highlight the problem and
show some different waysaround it.
So let's dig in that a littlebit more because I'm curious, first
(09:59):
of all, who's the primaryaudience for your book?
Yeah, so the book is intendedfor executives at mid sized businesses
and we define that ascompanies that have 200 to 10,000
employees because those arethe ones that are very, you know,
they're really, they're notbig enough to have a lot of in house
benefits expertise and sothey're heavily relying on outside
(10:23):
people, mostly benefitsbrokers to help them get the most
value for their money. Sothat's really the audience that we're
striving to attract. And youknow, the reality is that because
the benefits industry has beenmasterful in lowering expectations
(10:44):
amongst employers, you know, alot of executives have just checked
out of these conversations.You know, think about it. If you
were told over for decadesthat hey, health care costs just
go up and there's not a wholelot we can do about it eventually,
you know, if I'm the CFO of acompany, I'm just going to say, you
know what if I, if there'snothing I can do about this, then
(11:06):
I don't need to be in thismeeting anymore. H R, you go deal
with it. Right? I mean there'snothing I can do. I don't need to
engage in this very often. SoI think that's really the state and
attitude that a lot ofexecutives have right now. And so
the first step is to reallyinspire hope amongst that audience.
Love that. So you mentionedbenefit brokers Digestive sell products.
(11:30):
So as you're working withmedium to small size businesses,
what are the other optionsthat they have to get the kind of
healthcare they would lovefor, for their employees to have
at a good cost? That's goodfor their employees as well.
Sure, sure. So like I said,the first step is getting unbiased
advice. Now if you're acompany that has less than a thousand
(11:52):
employees, it's probably notgoing to make a whole lot of sense
for you to try to hire highquality benefits expertise in house.
You're probably not going tobe able, you might not be able to
afford it. It's going to bedifficult for you to find it and
bring that in house. Frankly,there's just not a lot in the marketplace.
(12:15):
So the recommendation forcompanies that have under a thousand
employees is that they reallyneed to replace their benefits broker
with a growing number ofmanagement consulting firms who specialize
in healthcare financing andprocurement and represent their core
business is representing andprotecting the demand side of the
(12:39):
equation. Employers andemployees and patients.
I love that. So if you'relooking at this and you're going,
you know, this sounds like agreat idea, where do I start? What
would you recommend as a firststep to, first of all, assessing
if you have the best servicesfor your, for your employees or,
and if you're saving enoughsaving the kind of dollars you're
(13:00):
talking about me, part of thisthing is how do you make sure that
companies are not wastingtheir, you know, very precious bottom
lines on things that are not beneficial.
Yeah. So just to break it downto the employee level. And so, so,
so executives understand theopportunity. Right now the average
company is wasting about$4,000 per employee per year on their
(13:25):
health plan. $4,000. You know,you think about the average American
makes about $60,000 a year. Soyou know, 8 to 10% of that of their
salary could be wasted, isbeing wasted. And sure, some of that
could be saved for, for, atthe corporate level to go to profitability,
et cetera, et cetera and beingreinvested in the company. But some
(13:47):
of that could go to salaries.I mean there's, you know, unlocking
the reclaiming that wastecreates so many opportunities. So
that's, you know, that'sreally the focus and the opportunity.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, okay, so how do you identify
these management consultingfirms that are practicing in, specializing
(14:10):
in this area? And so, youknow, I serve as a senior advisor
at the Validation Instituteand we thought about that question
very deeply and the answerthat we came up with was that, you
know, we need to vet theseorganizations and we need to validate
and certify the ones that areactually practicing in this way that
(14:33):
are actually serving asfiduciaries, having a fiduciary relationship.
With plan sponsors, theemployer. And so that's what we started
doing about eight months ago.And so if you go to the Validation
Institute's website, you'llsee a list, albeit it's a small list,
of management consulting firmsthat have, you know, have been certified
(14:56):
by the, by the institute. Butit's a growing list. And so we hope,
you know, we invite more firmswho are practicing in this way to
solve these kinds of problemsto apply to be certified.
What does that process looklike for certification? I'm always
curious, you know, we all haveour kind of standards, but what are
(15:16):
the things you're looking forto certify a company in that area?
Yeah, that's a great question.So, you know, amazingly most, because
benefits brokers don'tactually work for employers, an amazing
amount of companies don't evenhave a contract with the broker who,
who is they've tasked with,you know, helping to invest their
(15:39):
second largest, you know,their biggest expense. Their second
largest expense. Right. And sothey don't even have a contract with
them. So what we do at the VIis we take the management consulting
firm's contract that they usewith employers because again, they
sell services. They have, theyhave to, you know, their revenue
(16:01):
model has to align with thegoals of the employer, et cetera.
They can't accept anycompensation from outside vendors.
That would be a conflict ofinterest. So we scrub their contracts
for those indicators that,yes, they actually do embrace fiduciary
responsibilities and serve asa fiduciary to the plan sponsor in
(16:25):
their contract. So those arethe. Just a small set of the criteria
that we're looking for. But,you know, we don't see anyone else
in the marketplace doing thaton behalf of employers. And it's
a great question because, youknow, we've been telling employers
to do this thing for severalyears, right? It's like, all right,
(16:47):
well, how do we help themactually identify these people in
the wild, right? I mean, it'snot easy, right? So that's why the
Validation Institute corporatecreated that certification.
So how do you help executivesshift their mindset from healthcare
just being a cost to being astrategic asset for their workers?
It's all about, for. Well, Imean, you know, from a financial
(17:10):
perspective, it's all aboutfirst mover advantage, right? I mean,
honestly, I would say 96% ofthe marketplace is wasting a ton
of money. We see it every day.And so if you're an organization
who, you know, can take thebull by the horns and start acting
on your healthcaretransformation, you're going to gain
(17:33):
first mover advantage. You'regoing to significantly increase the
profitability of yourorganization. Not only that, you
know, the great thing aboutthis whole initiative is that the
best way to improve, you know,in cost, the cost of your program,
is actually to improvebenefits for your population. And
actually, we're not talkingabout just raising deductibles like,
(17:54):
you know, brokers have beendoing for decades. We're talking
about actually improvingaccess and reducing costs for your.
For your employees. So youactually, you know, your employees
get a better experience, andthat's going to help you attract
and retain talent as well. Andhonestly, you asked earlier about
how did I get in, whatinspired me to get into this part
(18:15):
of the business? Well, when Iwas on the carrier side working for
a large insurer, benefitsbrokers were my customers. And I'm
located in downtown Orlando,where we've got a fantastic entrepreneur
by the name of Harris Rosen,who unfortunately passed last year.
But he founded Rosen hotels in1974. And in 1991, he got fed up
(18:38):
with the traditionalhealthcare models. He fired his broker,
he fired his health insurer,and he said, I'm going to figure
this out on my own, and I'mgoing to deliver a much better product
for my employees. He startedhiring doctors in house for his hotel
staff. And over the next 30years, he continually optimized his
(19:00):
program and actually ended upsaving his company over a half a
billion dollars over the next30 years.
Wow.
And he did that by improvingaccess and, and quality of care for
his now 6,000 employees. Andso much so that he's been able to
do a tremendous amount ofphilanthropic work in our community
(19:20):
here, sending disadvantagedpeople to college. I mean, it's just
incredible, the story and thelife that he lived. And when I was
on the carrier side of theindustry, brokers were my customers.
And I routinely saw that theywere kind of apathetic. And I was
like, what's going on here?Like, we've got this guy, like, paved
(19:42):
the way for everybody, showedeveryone how to do this. Why aren't
they recommending some of thestrategies and solutions that he
pioneered? Why aren't theydoing that? And so I very naively
at the time thought, geez, ifI just move to the brokerage side
of the industry, I can scalethose kinds of innovative solutions.
I can probably help a lot ofpeople, and I can probably make some
(20:03):
money doing that. I turned outto be completely wrong. That's just
not what they do.
Yeah, so that's reallyinteresting. So I'm thinking About
this from the employee side ofthis. Can you kind of, I'm curious,
when you think about, you talkabout health care costs and better
health care, the first thingthe employee, employee is thinking
is, is it diminished care? Sohow do you make sure that you don't
(20:27):
diminish care? Because righthere, cost, I'm thinking, oh, if
we're just going to get some,you know, not the doctors you want,
not the care you want. So howdo you, how do you, how do employees
feel like, okay, this is agood thing because this is also good
for us as those who arereceiving this care?
Yeah, it's a fantasticquestion. And you know, in a market
economy, there's, there'susually a correlation between price
(20:52):
and quality.
Right?
Right. So when you pay for,you pay BMW prices, you get a high
quality vehicle that shouldlast a long time, high performing
vehicle in health care. Youknow, because we haven't had a true
market economy in decades. Andthis is largely because the actual
unit cost of, ofhospitalizations, surgeries, labs,
(21:16):
imaging and drugs have beenobfuscated from purchasers. We've
actually ended up in aninverse economy. And what I mean
by that is when you pay BMWprices in healthcare, you actually
get a, you go in most cases.And I think we're both old enough
to remember what a Yugo is.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:36):
So that's a huge problem thathas existed for decades and it's
actually a huge opportunity.And so what we recommend as far as
plan designs go at theemployee level is that you don't
want to limit choices, but youabsolutely want to reward employees
(21:57):
for making smarter purchasingdecisions. So, you know, just, you
think about it. So much ofwhat we consume in health care, these
are commodities, you know, forthe most part, getting labs and imaging
done, those are commodityservices. And there's no reason why,
you know, employees should begoing to a local hospital to get
(22:20):
an MRI done that costs $6,000when you can literally pro and go
down the street in many, manyareas and get one done for $600.
Right.
I mean, it's, it's just likethere's no, there's no, there's no
logical argument for doingthat. And yet we see people doing
it all the time. Because theplans, the plan sponsors don't know
(22:44):
this. They don't havevisibility to that. And so they're
not able to manage theirhealthcare supply chain just like
they manage every other supplychain in their business.
I'm curious, as you've gotinto this work and you saw all the
excesses, the Bad practices.How do you stay encouraged as you
(23:05):
try to work and navigatecompanies through this system?
You know, it's a hugechallenge, but there are several
things. I mean, there is agrowing number of people and organizations
in our corner of the business,of the industry who are really striving
to protect employers andpatients. And you know, if you meet
(23:28):
anyone in our corner of theindustry, they're super passionate.
You've probably met some ofthese people. There's, you know,
and this movement is growingand it's really been fantastic to
see over the, over the pastten years or so. So that's truly
inspiring. And then the otherthing that's inspiring is that, you
know, just the successes thatwe've seen with our clients, you
(23:51):
know, we worked, we helped alocal teachers union reduce their
drug spend by $3.6 million acouple of years ago. And it was the
same. They're getting the samedrugs, they're just paying less for
them. And it's like it wasjust simple things that are just
overlooked because ofmisaligned incentives.
(24:11):
I love that. So as you thinkabout the approach that you're taking
and how it's so counter to thetraditional processes, how do you
see the future of this movingforward? I'm just curious.
Well, you know, reality is, isgoing to set in and it is setting
in. I mean, you look at theeconomics of our, from a macro perspective.
(24:38):
You know, healthcare continuesto be the fastest growing financial
risk on most corporate P&L's.And you know, it's at an inflation
rate that's, you know, double,triple or quadruple what core inflation
is and has been for a longtime. So it's been kind of in a way
refreshing that people areactually talking about inflation
these days because, you know,people in the healthcare industry
(24:58):
have been talking about it fordecades. Um, so, so, you know, I
think we're, we're approachinga breaking point where more employers
are going to, are looking, arereally actively looking for solutions.
And you think it. Right. Youknow, at the, think about it at the
employee level, I think theFederal Reserve, you know, latest
(25:20):
studies show that the averageemployee, average American, doesn't
have $1,000 tucked away for anemergency. And yet many of those
same employees are subject to3, 4, 5, $6,000 deductibles on their
health plan.
Right.
And that doesn't work. I mean,it just doesn't work. It's not fair
(25:43):
to them and it's actually notfair to the employer either because,
you know, many of those lowerpaid employees who don't have those
savings also have chronicdiseases. And so if you, you know,
if you actually improve theaccess to care, you know, think about
people that are diabetics. Itcosts about $8,000 to manage diabetes.
(26:05):
Whereas if you don't manage itbecause the employees can't afford
to get, you know, the suppliesthat they need because of these outrageous
deductibles, they're going toend up in the hospital, and that's
that $8,000 quickly escalatesto $50,000 or $75,000 and costs to
the employer. Now that's justa hard financial cost. Think about
(26:26):
this. You know, now theemployee's out of work for a week,
their family is, Their homelife isn't. Is disrupted, the employer's
customers are probablyaffected. There's all kinds of downstream,
you know, software costsassociated with not managing these
chronic diseases. And so it'sjust about, you know, simply managing,
(26:48):
getting unbiased advice sothat you can start managing your
supply chain for value.
That makes sense. I know thatevery time we talk about change,
people get a little anxious.So I'm curious, what are, what are
some of the most commonobjections that executives face or
fear when you talk aboutconsidering major shifts in their
(27:09):
health care strategy? And howdo you address that?
Yes. Oh, absolutely. So one ofthe first, you know, being that we're
a consult, you know, my firm,Health Compass Consulting, is a management
consulting firm. We have aformal process for first assessing
who you are, who are, youknow, at the, at the, at the executive
level, you know, theexecutives that are making these
(27:29):
decisions. We have a formalprocess for understanding who they
are at a very deep level.What's their perceptions of risk,
what are their goals? What.What is their. Their tolerance to
change management. Right. Andthat's exactly what you're, what
you're poking at. And I thinka lot of people get, they get nervous
when they can't see thefuture. Right. I know. I feel this
(27:53):
way too, like as anentrepreneur, right. When we can't
see the future, things get alittle squirrely. You might lose
a little sleep, and we don'tlike that. And that's okay. So the
first thing that we do isreally customize a blueprint for
the employer to say, okay,this is what, you know, here's where
(28:14):
you are. We take them throughour assessment process, score them
in the seven categories ofbenefits value, and from there, that
helps us identifyopportunities, set goals, and then
develop roadmaps to achievethose goals. So it's really about
developing a blueprint forwhat the future actually looks like,
what's the step by stepprocess? And when it comes to the
(28:35):
health plan specifically, welike to look at it as a maturity
model. Okay. Just like if youlook at your company's tech stack,
you know, as your companybecomes more mature, you're going
to be more sophisticated inhow you use technology. Well, the
same thing is true with yourcompany's health plan. It should
be anyway, over time, youshould be becoming more sophisticated
(29:00):
on how you finance and procurehealth care for your organization.
And so as you move throughthese different stages that we've
built out as part of a multiyear roadmap, you increase the value
of your program, you'redriving more value to stakeholders,
meaning that you're reducingcosts and improving care and coverage
(29:21):
for your employees.
I'm curious, as you're doingthis, what's the ripple effect you're
seeing not only in companies,but also in the healthcare industry?
Yeah, I mean, we're seeingthat legacy stakeholders are starting
to adapt a little bit andit's, you know, they kind of move
at a glacial pace. But we areseeing some movement. We're seeing,
(29:45):
you know, big, big, you know,insurers start to mimic and concede
in certain areas. Part of thatis being driven by demands from employers.
But a lot, unfortunately, alot of that has, is being driven
by regulatory pressure andrisks right now as well. From the,
(30:06):
you know, we've got, the DOJis investigating a number of legacy
players on the, on the supplyside. And so given all of those factors,
we're seeing some concessionsbeing made. So that, that's positive.
And you know, and then also atthe local level, you know, we've
(30:27):
seen clusters of certain,certain areas of the country where
health plan innovation isbecoming kind of a hip thing. Right.
And that's great. Like we allwant, who doesn't want to be hip?
That's right.
And so, you know, when, when,you know, a couple organizations
start seeing success bymaking, by going through this transformation,
(30:48):
it's inspiring others in thelocal community and hopefully creating
a little bit of fomo. Sothat's great to see.
That's great. So I'd love toask my guests this question. What
do you want your legacy to be?
Wow, that's a big one. I thinkmy legacy, I don't really think about
(31:08):
my legacy much, but hopefullythat it was a purpose driven life
that's really, you know, tryto, to solve meaningful problems
for people that care. And, andI think, you know, if I can achieve
that, then it's it's, youknow, and take care of my kids and
my family. Then it's a. That'sa good life. Right. There you go.
(31:31):
So this year on the season, wehave a surprise question. Pick a
number between. Pick one ortwo is your number for your surprise
question.
Okay, let's go with two.
All right, two. And yoursurprise question is, if you get
stuck in an elevator whereyou're forced to listen to one song,
what song would that be?
(31:54):
Wow, that's a big one. I. Wedidn't. We didn't talk about the
fact I've been playing musicprofessionally since 1995. Oh, cool.
I'm. I'm addicted. Guilty ascharged. But one song. Wow, that
is so tough. I'm gonna pickkind of an obscure one.
(32:16):
Okay.
But it's. It's from. It's frommy childhood, and it's. It's. It's
such a gorgeous song. It mightactually drive me nuts if I actually
listen to it over and overagain. But it's such a beautiful
recording. It's actually byHeart, and it's called Dog and Butterfly.
Huh. Never heard that one.
It's. It's. I think it cameout in 83, something like that. But
(32:37):
just. Just. It's such a greatmoment in time. It's a time capsule,
and it's just a beautifulmelody and recording.
Huh. I gotta check that oneout now. That's cool.
Yeah. I actually had thepleasure of opening for heart in
2010 at Pine Knob outside of Detroit.
Wow.
(32:57):
Amazing experience.
Yeah. One of my favoritefemale rock and roll bands, so.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And they'restill incredible.
I know they are. So as we wrapthis up, Donovan, what do you want
to leave with the audience asa key takeaway from our conversation
today?
Yeah, so, you know, for. For.For a couple things For. For the
(33:18):
executives who are listening,I. I would say, you know, the first
step in. In yourtransformation is getting unbiased
advice. So I would encourageyou to get. Get a copy of my book,
which is coming out thisNovember 4th. It's called Fixing
Healthcare How Executives CanSave Their People, Their Business,
and the Economy. And you canalso go to fixinghealthcare.com to
(33:41):
get a free executive summaryof that book. And from there, we
also offer a free version ofour total benefits assessment, where
you can quickly get scored inthe seven key categories of value,
see how you're doing comparedto your peers, and again, identify
opportunities, set goals androadmaps to improve your programs.
(34:04):
And then for employees thatare listening, I would say go ahead
and sign up for a freeexecutive summary of the book and
read it and if you like it,plop it on your CFO's desk. I mean,
really, you're doing them afavor because frankly, so many of
them are frustrated with thisbecause they don't get clarity on
(34:26):
how things work, how thisindustry works. And so you'd be doing
them a huge favor by givingthe gift of clarity.
So where can people connectwith you and where can they get.
I know this is kind of. Youcan join the waiting list for your
book. So where can they do all that?
Sure, you can go to fixinghealthcare.com which, as of the date
(34:47):
of this recording is beingbuilt right now, but will be out
and completed in earlySeptember. Yeah. So fixinghealthcare.com
is probably the easiest one.Of course, you can reach out to me
on LinkedIn and X and allthose things as well.
Well, thank you, Davin, somuch for doing this and diving into
this really important topic.It is going to be the future of companies
(35:10):
and our country. So thank youfor taking the time to write this
and research it and make itavailable to the public.
You're quite welcome. Well,thanks for having me on the show.
It.
So today on Narrative Voices,we are joined by a trailblazer who
is challenging the status quoin American healthcare. Donovan Pyatt
is the CEO of Health CompassConsulting, a senior advisor at the
Validation Institute, and isthe author of an eye opening book,
Fixing Health Care HowExecutives Can Save Their People,
Their Businesses and theEconomy. With insider knowledge and
(01:12):
a bold voice, Donovan exposesthe hidden conflicts and misalignment
incentives that drain billionsfrom our healthcare systems while
offering employers a smarterdata driven pathway. His work has
been featured in EmployeeBenefit News, Yahoo. Finance and
beyond, making him one of themost compelling thought leaders in
the benefit benefits phase.Today, get ready for a conversation
(01:36):
that could change the way youthink about health care business
and the power of informedleadership. We welcome him to the
podcast.
Great to be here. Thanks forhaving me.
Good to have you on. So let'sdive right in here with my favorite
question. What's the bestpiece of advice you've ever received?
The best piece of advice I'veever received is probably from someone
(01:59):
who is very active in my BoyScout troop as a young man. And he
said Dennis Klamowski was hisname and I haven't thought of his
name in a long time, but greatguy. And you know, before I was heading
off to college, he said,listen, you know, if plan A doesn't
(02:22):
work, just go with plan B andif plan B doesn't work, go with plan
C and on and on and on, justkeep going. And I think, you know,
that's just really sage advicefor anyone at any stage of life because,
you know, you just got to stayin the game and things are never
going to go exactly how youwant them to or how you planned for
(02:45):
them to go. But you just gotto be, you know, adaptable and just,
just go with the flow to somedegree because there's so many things
that are out of our control.We control, you know, we can do quite
a few things, but there's somuch that is just completely out
of our control. So you justgotta roll with it. And that's, that's.
That served me well.
I love that. And that's sotrue because, you know, I think I
(03:06):
grew up, I was told that, youknow, you know, life will give you
lemons. You can make lemonadeout of it or just be sour.
Absolutely, absolutely, 100%.
So I'm curious, Donovan, canyou think about, in your life, in
your journey, who are somepeople who came alongside you and
served as a mentor or aninspiration for you in your journey?
(03:28):
Well, I, I've been I've beenblessed. I mean, I've had so many
just wonderful people in mylife, friends, family, etc. Colleagues.
So I, you know, that's,there's, there's a number of ways
I could go. But I would say,you know, I think the people that
really affect you the most arethe ones that believe in you, that
(03:49):
really say, listen, you know,get that, give you confidence. So
my uncle, my Uncle Vince beingone of them, he was a serial entrepreneur
and you know, he was justincredibly confident, not only in
himself and, but and othersand of the American people. And so
I think that's, you know,confidence is such a valuable thing
(04:12):
because it serves you so well,especially when you're going through
difficult times. So, yeah, myUncle Vince was certainly one of
them. I had a number ofprofessors in college that were also
very, very influential andencouraging and of course, you know,
lucky to have great parents.That's, you know, instilled a similar
(04:33):
ethos and confidence. So, yes,blessed in more ways than I can count.
That's awesome. I love that. Ilove to give people opportunity.
Just kind of think about thepeople that have impacted their lives
and we don't always get achance to say thank you or even recognize
them. So here was your chancejust to kind of, you know, lift up
those people who have been soimportant to you. So I'm glad you
were able to share that.
(04:53):
Yeah, thank you for that.
So let's talk about yourjourney into healthcare. I mean,
we don't all. We may run intohealthcare at some point, whether
we want to or not. But tell usabout your journey into healthcare
consulting. What inspired youto write Fixing Healthcare?
Sure. So just to level set foryour audience, about half of the
(05:13):
citizens of the United States,about 164 million Americans, receive
their healthcare benefitsthrough, through their employer.
So their employer is veryinfluential in how they purchase
healthcare, how much they payfor it, the access that they have,
et cetera. And this all cameout of World War II when the government
(05:37):
froze wages, but the unionsnegotiated that employers could provide
benefits on a tax advantagebasis during that time. And that's
how this whole employeebenefits industry started, kind of
by accident. But, yeah, so,but the shocking thing is, is that
(05:57):
in the current state of thesystem and the architecture of it,
employers spend $1.3 trilliona year on healthcare. But 25% of
that, roughly $300 billion ayear is being wasted. And so there's,
there's. And it's being wastedprimarily for something that we call
the brokerage blind spot. Inthe book. And that's really, you
(06:20):
know, what the challenge andopportunity that the book was intended
to highlight so thatexecutives can really reclaim that
money.
So I love this health caretalk because I have a lot of people,
I hear a lot of things abouthealth care and there's all kind
of debates. Is, is theemployee, you know, the employee
based better or is we, shouldwe go to a system where everybody's
(06:44):
on Medicare, Medicaid? As youlook at this, the healthcare system,
if you were trying to find away, you talk about, you know, fixing
it. What, what's the, youwould say like the magic bullet to
really fix the broken system?
Yeah. So I mean, you know, thescope of the book isn't all encompassing.
This isn't to say there's a,and frankly, I don't think there
(07:05):
should be a one size fitsolution for a country of 330 million
people.
Right.
I think that's just on itsface, just not, not a practical notion.
But, you know, so given thestate of how, you know, half the
country gets their health carebenefits through their employer,
(07:26):
that's really the focus of mybook. And so, you know, the first
step in a company's healthcaretransformation is getting unbiased
advice. Okay. So you thinkabout it, you know, if you're a mid
sized business and you know,I'm a business owner, you're probably
a business owner. There'sprobably a number of them on the
(07:48):
call listening. You know, ifyou don't understand US Tax policy
and you don't want to keep upwith the annual changes of U.S. tax
policy, you hire an outsideexpert who is keeping up with all
of those things. You hire acpa, right, so that they cover your
(08:08):
blind spots and they protectyou. They tell you the things that
you don't know so that youdon't end up paying more than you
should. But, and so that makesperfect sense. And businesses outsource
functions all the time wherethey don't have in house expertise
and you know, in legalservices and accounting, etc. So
they outsource these thingsand that makes perfect sense. The
(08:31):
difference though inhealthcare is that 81% of businesses
rely on benefits brokers andthey expect benefits brokers to help
them maximize the return ontheir benefits investment. And that
all makes perfect sense. Butthey do this without realizing in
most cases that the brokerageindustry doesn't work for them. The
(08:54):
brokerage industry wasdeveloped by insurance companies
back in, back in the 1940s toserve as distribution, to simply
sell products. Right. Move asmuch product as possible and we will
reward you accordingly. And sothat's a very different value proposition
from helping employers get themost value for their money. Right.
(09:18):
So brokers sell products butthey're not incentivized to actually
help employers get the mostvalue for their money. That's not
what they do. And so, youknow, one of the things that we highlight
in the book is, is the historyof how, how this whole system came
to be. You know, how didinsurance companies come to be? They're
(09:39):
really, I mean they're only 90years old. It's really a modern construct.
And the same thing with thebrokerage industry. It never used
to be this way and it doesn'thave to continue being this way.
So we show, you know, webasically highlight the problem and
show some different waysaround it.
So let's dig in that a littlebit more because I'm curious, first
(09:59):
of all, who's the primaryaudience for your book?
Yeah, so the book is intendedfor executives at mid sized businesses
and we define that ascompanies that have 200 to 10,000
employees because those arethe ones that are very, you know,
they're really, they're notbig enough to have a lot of in house
benefits expertise and sothey're heavily relying on outside
(10:23):
people, mostly benefitsbrokers to help them get the most
value for their money. Sothat's really the audience that we're
striving to attract. And youknow, the reality is that because
the benefits industry has beenmasterful in lowering expectations
(10:44):
amongst employers, you know, alot of executives have just checked
out of these conversations.You know, think about it. If you
were told over for decadesthat hey, health care costs just
go up and there's not a wholelot we can do about it eventually,
you know, if I'm the CFO of acompany, I'm just going to say, you
know what if I, if there'snothing I can do about this, then
(11:06):
I don't need to be in thismeeting anymore. H R, you go deal
with it. Right? I mean there'snothing I can do. I don't need to
engage in this very often. SoI think that's really the state and
attitude that a lot ofexecutives have right now. And so
the first step is to reallyinspire hope amongst that audience.
Love that. So you mentionedbenefit brokers Digestive sell products.
(11:30):
So as you're working withmedium to small size businesses,
what are the other optionsthat they have to get the kind of
healthcare they would lovefor, for their employees to have
at a good cost? That's goodfor their employees as well.
Sure, sure. So like I said,the first step is getting unbiased
advice. Now if you're acompany that has less than a thousand
(11:52):
employees, it's probably notgoing to make a whole lot of sense
for you to try to hire highquality benefits expertise in house.
You're probably not going tobe able, you might not be able to
afford it. It's going to bedifficult for you to find it and
bring that in house. Frankly,there's just not a lot in the marketplace.
(12:15):
So the recommendation forcompanies that have under a thousand
employees is that they reallyneed to replace their benefits broker
with a growing number ofmanagement consulting firms who specialize
in healthcare financing andprocurement and represent their core
business is representing andprotecting the demand side of the
(12:39):
equation. Employers andemployees and patients.
I love that. So if you'relooking at this and you're going,
you know, this sounds like agreat idea, where do I start? What
would you recommend as a firststep to, first of all, assessing
if you have the best servicesfor your, for your employees or,
and if you're saving enoughsaving the kind of dollars you're
(13:00):
talking about me, part of thisthing is how do you make sure that
companies are not wastingtheir, you know, very precious bottom
lines on things that are not beneficial.
Yeah. So just to break it downto the employee level. And so, so,
so executives understand theopportunity. Right now the average
company is wasting about$4,000 per employee per year on their
(13:25):
health plan. $4,000. You know,you think about the average American
makes about $60,000 a year. Soyou know, 8 to 10% of that of their
salary could be wasted, isbeing wasted. And sure, some of that
could be saved for, for, atthe corporate level to go to profitability,
et cetera, et cetera and beingreinvested in the company. But some
(13:47):
of that could go to salaries.I mean there's, you know, unlocking
the reclaiming that wastecreates so many opportunities. So
that's, you know, that'sreally the focus and the opportunity.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, okay, so how do you identify
these management consultingfirms that are practicing in, specializing
(14:10):
in this area? And so, youknow, I serve as a senior advisor
at the Validation Instituteand we thought about that question
very deeply and the answerthat we came up with was that, you
know, we need to vet theseorganizations and we need to validate
and certify the ones that areactually practicing in this way that
(14:33):
are actually serving asfiduciaries, having a fiduciary relationship.
With plan sponsors, theemployer. And so that's what we started
doing about eight months ago.And so if you go to the Validation
Institute's website, you'llsee a list, albeit it's a small list,
of management consulting firmsthat have, you know, have been certified
(14:56):
by the, by the institute. Butit's a growing list. And so we hope,
you know, we invite more firmswho are practicing in this way to
solve these kinds of problemsto apply to be certified.
What does that process looklike for certification? I'm always
curious, you know, we all haveour kind of standards, but what are
(15:16):
the things you're looking forto certify a company in that area?
Yeah, that's a great question.So, you know, amazingly most, because
benefits brokers don'tactually work for employers, an amazing
amount of companies don't evenhave a contract with the broker who,
who is they've tasked with,you know, helping to invest their
(15:39):
second largest, you know,their biggest expense. Their second
largest expense. Right. And sothey don't even have a contract with
them. So what we do at the VIis we take the management consulting
firm's contract that they usewith employers because again, they
sell services. They have, theyhave to, you know, their revenue
(16:01):
model has to align with thegoals of the employer, et cetera.
They can't accept anycompensation from outside vendors.
That would be a conflict ofinterest. So we scrub their contracts
for those indicators that,yes, they actually do embrace fiduciary
responsibilities and serve asa fiduciary to the plan sponsor in
(16:25):
their contract. So those arethe. Just a small set of the criteria
that we're looking for. But,you know, we don't see anyone else
in the marketplace doing thaton behalf of employers. And it's
a great question because, youknow, we've been telling employers
to do this thing for severalyears, right? It's like, all right,
(16:47):
well, how do we help themactually identify these people in
the wild, right? I mean, it'snot easy, right? So that's why the
Validation Institute corporatecreated that certification.
So how do you help executivesshift their mindset from healthcare
just being a cost to being astrategic asset for their workers?
It's all about, for. Well, Imean, you know, from a financial
(17:10):
perspective, it's all aboutfirst mover advantage, right? I mean,
honestly, I would say 96% ofthe marketplace is wasting a ton
of money. We see it every day.And so if you're an organization
who, you know, can take thebull by the horns and start acting
on your healthcaretransformation, you're going to gain
(17:33):
first mover advantage. You'regoing to significantly increase the
profitability of yourorganization. Not only that, you
know, the great thing aboutthis whole initiative is that the
best way to improve, you know,in cost, the cost of your program,
is actually to improvebenefits for your population. And
actually, we're not talkingabout just raising deductibles like,
(17:54):
you know, brokers have beendoing for decades. We're talking
about actually improvingaccess and reducing costs for your.
For your employees. So youactually, you know, your employees
get a better experience, andthat's going to help you attract
and retain talent as well. Andhonestly, you asked earlier about
how did I get in, whatinspired me to get into this part
(18:15):
of the business? Well, when Iwas on the carrier side working for
a large insurer, benefitsbrokers were my customers. And I'm
located in downtown Orlando,where we've got a fantastic entrepreneur
by the name of Harris Rosen,who unfortunately passed last year.
But he founded Rosen hotels in1974. And in 1991, he got fed up
(18:38):
with the traditionalhealthcare models. He fired his broker,
he fired his health insurer,and he said, I'm going to figure
this out on my own, and I'mgoing to deliver a much better product
for my employees. He startedhiring doctors in house for his hotel
staff. And over the next 30years, he continually optimized his
(19:00):
program and actually ended upsaving his company over a half a
billion dollars over the next30 years.
Wow.
And he did that by improvingaccess and, and quality of care for
his now 6,000 employees. Andso much so that he's been able to
do a tremendous amount ofphilanthropic work in our community
(19:20):
here, sending disadvantagedpeople to college. I mean, it's just
incredible, the story and thelife that he lived. And when I was
on the carrier side of theindustry, brokers were my customers.
And I routinely saw that theywere kind of apathetic. And I was
like, what's going on here?Like, we've got this guy, like, paved
(19:42):
the way for everybody, showedeveryone how to do this. Why aren't
they recommending some of thestrategies and solutions that he
pioneered? Why aren't theydoing that? And so I very naively
at the time thought, geez, ifI just move to the brokerage side
of the industry, I can scalethose kinds of innovative solutions.
I can probably help a lot ofpeople, and I can probably make some
(20:03):
money doing that. I turned outto be completely wrong. That's just
not what they do.
Yeah, so that's reallyinteresting. So I'm thinking About
this from the employee side ofthis. Can you kind of, I'm curious,
when you think about, you talkabout health care costs and better
health care, the first thingthe employee, employee is thinking
is, is it diminished care? Sohow do you make sure that you don't
(20:27):
diminish care? Because righthere, cost, I'm thinking, oh, if
we're just going to get some,you know, not the doctors you want,
not the care you want. So howdo you, how do you, how do employees
feel like, okay, this is agood thing because this is also good
for us as those who arereceiving this care?
Yeah, it's a fantasticquestion. And you know, in a market
economy, there's, there'susually a correlation between price
(20:52):
and quality.
Right?
Right. So when you pay for,you pay BMW prices, you get a high
quality vehicle that shouldlast a long time, high performing
vehicle in health care. Youknow, because we haven't had a true
market economy in decades. Andthis is largely because the actual
unit cost of, ofhospitalizations, surgeries, labs,
(21:16):
imaging and drugs have beenobfuscated from purchasers. We've
actually ended up in aninverse economy. And what I mean
by that is when you pay BMWprices in healthcare, you actually
get a, you go in most cases.And I think we're both old enough
to remember what a Yugo is.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:36):
So that's a huge problem thathas existed for decades and it's
actually a huge opportunity.And so what we recommend as far as
plan designs go at theemployee level is that you don't
want to limit choices, but youabsolutely want to reward employees
(21:57):
for making smarter purchasingdecisions. So, you know, just, you
think about it. So much ofwhat we consume in health care, these
are commodities, you know, forthe most part, getting labs and imaging
done, those are commodityservices. And there's no reason why,
you know, employees should begoing to a local hospital to get
(22:20):
an MRI done that costs $6,000when you can literally pro and go
down the street in many, manyareas and get one done for $600.
Right.
I mean, it's, it's just likethere's no, there's no, there's no
logical argument for doingthat. And yet we see people doing
it all the time. Because theplans, the plan sponsors don't know
(22:44):
this. They don't havevisibility to that. And so they're
not able to manage theirhealthcare supply chain just like
they manage every other supplychain in their business.
I'm curious, as you've gotinto this work and you saw all the
excesses, the Bad practices.How do you stay encouraged as you
(23:05):
try to work and navigatecompanies through this system?
You know, it's a hugechallenge, but there are several
things. I mean, there is agrowing number of people and organizations
in our corner of the business,of the industry who are really striving
to protect employers andpatients. And you know, if you meet
(23:28):
anyone in our corner of theindustry, they're super passionate.
You've probably met some ofthese people. There's, you know,
and this movement is growingand it's really been fantastic to
see over the, over the pastten years or so. So that's truly
inspiring. And then the otherthing that's inspiring is that, you
know, just the successes thatwe've seen with our clients, you
(23:51):
know, we worked, we helped alocal teachers union reduce their
drug spend by $3.6 million acouple of years ago. And it was the
same. They're getting the samedrugs, they're just paying less for
them. And it's like it wasjust simple things that are just
overlooked because ofmisaligned incentives.
(24:11):
I love that. So as you thinkabout the approach that you're taking
and how it's so counter to thetraditional processes, how do you
see the future of this movingforward? I'm just curious.
Well, you know, reality is, isgoing to set in and it is setting
in. I mean, you look at theeconomics of our, from a macro perspective.
(24:38):
You know, healthcare continuesto be the fastest growing financial
risk on most corporate P&L's.And you know, it's at an inflation
rate that's, you know, double,triple or quadruple what core inflation
is and has been for a longtime. So it's been kind of in a way
refreshing that people areactually talking about inflation
these days because, you know,people in the healthcare industry
(24:58):
have been talking about it fordecades. Um, so, so, you know, I
think we're, we're approachinga breaking point where more employers
are going to, are looking, arereally actively looking for solutions.
And you think it. Right. Youknow, at the, think about it at the
employee level, I think theFederal Reserve, you know, latest
(25:20):
studies show that the averageemployee, average American, doesn't
have $1,000 tucked away for anemergency. And yet many of those
same employees are subject to3, 4, 5, $6,000 deductibles on their
health plan.
Right.
And that doesn't work. I mean,it just doesn't work. It's not fair
(25:43):
to them and it's actually notfair to the employer either because,
you know, many of those lowerpaid employees who don't have those
savings also have chronicdiseases. And so if you, you know,
if you actually improve theaccess to care, you know, think about
people that are diabetics. Itcosts about $8,000 to manage diabetes.
(26:05):
Whereas if you don't manage itbecause the employees can't afford
to get, you know, the suppliesthat they need because of these outrageous
deductibles, they're going toend up in the hospital, and that's
that $8,000 quickly escalatesto $50,000 or $75,000 and costs to
the employer. Now that's justa hard financial cost. Think about
(26:26):
this. You know, now theemployee's out of work for a week,
their family is, Their homelife isn't. Is disrupted, the employer's
customers are probablyaffected. There's all kinds of downstream,
you know, software costsassociated with not managing these
chronic diseases. And so it'sjust about, you know, simply managing,
(26:48):
getting unbiased advice sothat you can start managing your
supply chain for value.
That makes sense. I know thatevery time we talk about change,
people get a little anxious.So I'm curious, what are, what are
some of the most commonobjections that executives face or
fear when you talk aboutconsidering major shifts in their
(27:09):
health care strategy? And howdo you address that?
Yes. Oh, absolutely. So one ofthe first, you know, being that we're
a consult, you know, my firm,Health Compass Consulting, is a management
consulting firm. We have aformal process for first assessing
who you are, who are, youknow, at the, at the, at the executive
level, you know, theexecutives that are making these
(27:29):
decisions. We have a formalprocess for understanding who they
are at a very deep level.What's their perceptions of risk,
what are their goals? What.What is their. Their tolerance to
change management. Right. Andthat's exactly what you're, what
you're poking at. And I thinka lot of people get, they get nervous
when they can't see thefuture. Right. I know. I feel this
(27:53):
way too, like as anentrepreneur, right. When we can't
see the future, things get alittle squirrely. You might lose
a little sleep, and we don'tlike that. And that's okay. So the
first thing that we do isreally customize a blueprint for
the employer to say, okay,this is what, you know, here's where
(28:14):
you are. We take them throughour assessment process, score them
in the seven categories ofbenefits value, and from there, that
helps us identifyopportunities, set goals, and then
develop roadmaps to achievethose goals. So it's really about
developing a blueprint forwhat the future actually looks like,
what's the step by stepprocess? And when it comes to the
(28:35):
health plan specifically, welike to look at it as a maturity
model. Okay. Just like if youlook at your company's tech stack,
you know, as your companybecomes more mature, you're going
to be more sophisticated inhow you use technology. Well, the
same thing is true with yourcompany's health plan. It should
be anyway, over time, youshould be becoming more sophisticated
(29:00):
on how you finance and procurehealth care for your organization.
And so as you move throughthese different stages that we've
built out as part of a multiyear roadmap, you increase the value
of your program, you'redriving more value to stakeholders,
meaning that you're reducingcosts and improving care and coverage
(29:21):
for your employees.
I'm curious, as you're doingthis, what's the ripple effect you're
seeing not only in companies,but also in the healthcare industry?
Yeah, I mean, we're seeingthat legacy stakeholders are starting
to adapt a little bit andit's, you know, they kind of move
at a glacial pace. But we areseeing some movement. We're seeing,
(29:45):
you know, big, big, you know,insurers start to mimic and concede
in certain areas. Part of thatis being driven by demands from employers.
But a lot, unfortunately, alot of that has, is being driven
by regulatory pressure andrisks right now as well. From the,
(30:06):
you know, we've got, the DOJis investigating a number of legacy
players on the, on the supplyside. And so given all of those factors,
we're seeing some concessionsbeing made. So that, that's positive.
And you know, and then also atthe local level, you know, we've
(30:27):
seen clusters of certain,certain areas of the country where
health plan innovation isbecoming kind of a hip thing. Right.
And that's great. Like we allwant, who doesn't want to be hip?
That's right.
And so, you know, when, when,you know, a couple organizations
start seeing success bymaking, by going through this transformation,
(30:48):
it's inspiring others in thelocal community and hopefully creating
a little bit of fomo. Sothat's great to see.
That's great. So I'd love toask my guests this question. What
do you want your legacy to be?
Wow, that's a big one. I thinkmy legacy, I don't really think about
(31:08):
my legacy much, but hopefullythat it was a purpose driven life
that's really, you know, tryto, to solve meaningful problems
for people that care. And, andI think, you know, if I can achieve
that, then it's it's, youknow, and take care of my kids and
my family. Then it's a. That'sa good life. Right. There you go.
(31:31):
So this year on the season, wehave a surprise question. Pick a
number between. Pick one ortwo is your number for your surprise
question.
Okay, let's go with two.
All right, two. And yoursurprise question is, if you get
stuck in an elevator whereyou're forced to listen to one song,
what song would that be?
(31:54):
Wow, that's a big one. I. Wedidn't. We didn't talk about the
fact I've been playing musicprofessionally since 1995. Oh, cool.
I'm. I'm addicted. Guilty ascharged. But one song. Wow, that
is so tough. I'm gonna pickkind of an obscure one.
(32:16):
Okay.
But it's. It's from. It's frommy childhood, and it's. It's. It's
such a gorgeous song. It mightactually drive me nuts if I actually
listen to it over and overagain. But it's such a beautiful
recording. It's actually byHeart, and it's called Dog and Butterfly.
Huh. Never heard that one.
It's. It's. I think it cameout in 83, something like that. But
(32:37):
just. Just. It's such a greatmoment in time. It's a time capsule,
and it's just a beautifulmelody and recording.
Huh. I gotta check that oneout now. That's cool.
Yeah. I actually had thepleasure of opening for heart in
2010 at Pine Knob outside of Detroit.
Wow.
(32:57):
Amazing experience.
Yeah. One of my favoritefemale rock and roll bands, so.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And they'restill incredible.
I know they are. So as we wrapthis up, Donovan, what do you want
to leave with the audience asa key takeaway from our conversation
today?
Yeah, so, you know, for. For.For a couple things For. For the
(33:18):
executives who are listening,I. I would say, you know, the first
step in. In yourtransformation is getting unbiased
advice. So I would encourageyou to get. Get a copy of my book,
which is coming out thisNovember 4th. It's called Fixing
Healthcare How Executives CanSave Their People, Their Business,
and the Economy. And you canalso go to fixinghealthcare.com to
(33:41):
get a free executive summaryof that book. And from there, we
also offer a free version ofour total benefits assessment, where
you can quickly get scored inthe seven key categories of value,
see how you're doing comparedto your peers, and again, identify
opportunities, set goals androadmaps to improve your programs.
(34:04):
And then for employees thatare listening, I would say go ahead
and sign up for a freeexecutive summary of the book and
read it and if you like it,plop it on your CFO's desk. I mean,
really, you're doing them afavor because frankly, so many of
them are frustrated with thisbecause they don't get clarity on
(34:26):
how things work, how thisindustry works. And so you'd be doing
them a huge favor by givingthe gift of clarity.
So where can people connectwith you and where can they get.
I know this is kind of. Youcan join the waiting list for your
book. So where can they do all that?
Sure, you can go to fixinghealthcare.com which, as of the date
(34:47):
of this recording is beingbuilt right now, but will be out
and completed in earlySeptember. Yeah. So fixinghealthcare.com
is probably the easiest one.Of course, you can reach out to me
on LinkedIn and X and allthose things as well.
Well, thank you, Davin, somuch for doing this and diving into
this really important topic.It is going to be the future of companies
(35:10):
and our country. So thank youfor taking the time to write this
and research it and make itavailable to the public.
You're quite welcome. Well,thanks for having me on the show.
It.
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