June 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Deon Patrick's story takes a harrowing turn as he recounts the events leading to his arrest, characterized by a shocking encounter with law enforcement that he initially perceived as a misunderstanding. The interrogation process emerges as a focal point of the discussion, illustrating the psychological tactics employed by police that ultimately coerced him into a false confession. Deon’s firsthand account of being subjected to mental duress, isolation, and manipulation underscores the vulnerabilities faced by individuals, particularly young men with limited support systems. The narrative offers a critical examination of how systemic biases and procedural injustices can lead to wrongful convictions, as Deon discusses the trial that followed, which was marred by a lack of credible evidence and a jury influenced by societal fears rather than facts. This segment of the podcast serves as a poignant reminder of the urgent need for reform within the justice system, advocating for a more equitable approach that considers the humanity of those involved and the consequences of their legal decisions.
Takeaways
- The profound influence of a strong maternal figure is essential in shaping one's resilience and determination to achieve personal goals.
- Experiencing loss at a young age can lead to misguided choices and a descent into negative influences, highlighting the importance of guidance and support.
- The interrogation process often employs psychological manipulation and deprivation tactics, which can lead to false confessions even from innocent individuals.
- Systemic flaws within the justice system can lead to wrongful convictions, underscoring the need for reform and accountability in law enforcement practices.
- The stigma of having a criminal record persists even after exoneration, creating significant barriers to reintegration into society, such as securing housing and employment.
- A legacy of positive influence and mentorship is vital for those who have experienced incarceration, aiming to prevent others from enduring similar hardships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:51):
Well, Dion, welcome to thepodcast, my friend.
How you doing?
I'm fine.
To yourself.
Thanks for having me.
I can't complain one littlebit, except for the fact you're a
Beers fan.
Other than that, we're good.
We are we on the rise now.
Here we come.
All right, here we go.
So I'd love to ask my gueststhis question.
Dion, what's the best piece ofadvice you ever received?
(01:16):
I think coming from a strong,single black mother, like she always
instilled in me and mybrother, like, to never give up and
go after our goals andwhatever it was we wanted to.
Achieve in life, I love that.
That's good because you know, those.
Those mothers are backbone forso many, so many families, especially
in our community.
Definitely, definitely.
(01:38):
I'm curious, as you think,about people who have been in important
in your life.
Who are some people thatserved as a mentor or maybe inspiration
for you in your journey?
Well, as I just said, my mom,definitely, whom I lost at the age
of 16, but she impacted mylife so much that I still found myself
doing some of the things thatshe talked to me about.
(02:00):
And I found myself sayingthings to my kids that she once said
to me and my brother.
And then when I came home, Imet a lot of impactful people, like
some guys that I grew up withthat had already changed their lives
and got on the right path.
As a brother named ChristopherPatterson, that really steered me
(02:20):
in the right direction andwhat my goal and what I should have
been doing when I came homeand trying to better our communities.
And I've also trained under abrother named Benny Lee before who
instilled a lot of things in me.
I used to find myself in those trainings.
Some days while he's talkingto the audience, I would feel like
he's talking to me and I wouldbe getting everything that he was
(02:40):
saying out of it.
That's so.
It's so cool.
So tell us a little bit about.
Let's get into your story.
Tell us a bit about your lifebefore you were arrested.
What were your dreams and yourhopes for the future?
As I said a little bitearlier, like, I was raised by a
single mother.
Me and my brother, we're theonly siblings.
(03:05):
We had a pretty.
Compared to others lives, wehad a good life.
Like, my mother worked hard.
She made sure me and mybrother had all the things we needed
to be successful and to do thethings that we needed to do.
She moved us away from acommunity that was somewhat impoverished
and crime ridden because shewanted to show us something Different.
(03:26):
So she moved us from thenorth, from the west side of Chicago
to the north side of Chicagoto just get us to experience different
cultures and different peoples.
Right, people.
Right.
And I think my dreams were wereally didn't have many options in
our household.
We were either going tocollege, we was going to the military.
(03:48):
We was doing something.
But at 18, we had to make a choice.
Right.
So I think at that time in mylife, I was prepared to go away to
college.
My brother was already incollege when my mom passed, and I
was a sophomore in high schoolgoing into my junior year.
And I think that was our goalsand aspirations, just to be successful
young men and do the rightthings in life.
(04:11):
So tell us how you got intothe situation you were in.
Because I looked, I read yourstory, saw the video, but just kind
of give us the backdrop as tohow you ended up in the situation
you ended up in.
I think some things transpiredin my life.
Like I said a minute ago.
I lost my mom at 16, became anangry, misguided kid, became a very
(04:35):
poor manager of my time in mylife, started hanging out more in
the streets, ended up in thestreet gang culture and around those
who I perceived to be myfriends at the time.
And I think now I understandwhat the word friend means.
So I just started making poor decisions.
(04:55):
Like, I became angry.
I started fighting a lot.
Started getting in trouble inschool, which I never had issues
at school until after that.
Started out in all honorsclasses, perfect attendance in school
every day, very attentive.
And I think the thing for mewas, like, losing her, like, it took
(05:16):
that guidance away from methat I had, and I really didn't know
how to guide myself, but Ididn't want to listen to anybody
else.
So I started to rebel againstpeople that were actually trying
to help me.
And that's where I kind offound myself going down the wrong
path.
So tell me your initialreaction to getting arrested and
being accused of this crimeyou were accused of.
(05:38):
Initially, like, they came tomy grandmother's house because I
had moved back into a buildingthat she owned.
I thought they were kidding.
Like, I just couldn't believe it.
Because I knew for a fact thatme and nobody that I hung with or
ran around, we had anything todo with it.
So I think I was in shock inthe beginning, but I kept, like,
(06:01):
trying to get them tounderstand, like, you got the wrong
guy.
Like, I don't really know whatyou're going with or what you're
thinking, but I'm not the manyou're looking for.
Wow.
So we, we've all heard,especially being in Chicago myself,
I heard about some of theprocesses they use for interrogation
in Chicago and other, otherbig cities too.
(06:21):
I know Los Angeles had a bigproblem with interrogation too.
So kind of describe thatprocess to us that you went through
and what tactics did they useto get you cooked on this, on this
crime?
I think like at that time Iwas 20, I had a co defendant who
was 15, I had two that was 17and two was 19.
(06:43):
So we were all like very youngmen or kids.
And so when they first got me,the first thing I said was, I want
to speak to my attorney.
Because I had just come homefrom some cases where I had a paid
attorney who I had a greatrelationship with.
Still knew her number by heart.
They never allowed me to.
(07:04):
So they took me in a room andthey handcuffed me to this ring on
the wall.
And it's a chair that sits bythe ring, but they immediately took
the chair away from me.
So now I'm standing handcuffedto this ring and they left me there
for hours.
So they came back in.
By this time I'm sitting onthe floor and my arm is hanging from
the ring.
(07:25):
And they're telling me that wegot some people down here that say
you, you actually murderedthese people.
And I'm like, that's impossible.
Like you can't have nobodydown here saying I did it.
And so now they telling methat it's my so called friends at
the time, which were guys thatI hung with in the neighborhood that
were part of the streetculture and stuff like that.
And I'm like, nah, because Ireally knew these guys, but I didn't
(07:49):
hang with them like that.
So I think the interrogationprocess was just constant badgering
because I don't have a claimof being physically beaten.
Because when I asked myattorney, I think they kind of pulled
back off of me, like, well, wecan't beat him because he's gonna
see an attorney soon as heleave this room and he's gonna tell
him what happened.
(08:10):
So I think more of my stuffwas mental where they kept me in
a room for like almost two anda half days.
They didn't feed me.
They did take me to thebathroom once or twice, but they
didn't feed me, they didn'tlet me get anything to drink.
I never knew what time it was.
Like if I start to fall asleep.
Like they were using thesesleep deprivation tactics too, where
(08:31):
they'll kick the door in andbe like, oh, this is what's happening.
They're saying that you did.
And they.
It will wake me up and put meback in shock.
And I think just eventually Icome to the conclusion, oh, and then
it got to the point where theystarted showing me court reported
statements from other guys.
So in my mind I'm saying,okay, somebody else is in this room
(08:53):
with them other than these detectives.
So I'm like, okay, I want to confess.
I want to tell y' all whathappened, but I wanted them to bring
other people in the room.
So when they brought thestate's attorney and the court reporter
in the room, I think I kind ofjumped the gun and I said that.
So y' all about to make meconfess to something I didn't do.
(09:16):
The state's attorney tappedthe court reporter and left back
out the room and left me withthe detectives to continue to badger
me.
And so at that point I knewlike, I wasn't leaving that room
without being charged withthis case.
And I just decided like, I'mready to go and let somebody else
(09:36):
listen to the truth as opposedto the people that we had been talking
to.
Wow.
That.
So you're stuck in a room andthey're, they're doing everything
to break you down.
So you confess.
What's your emotional,psychological feelings as you're
going through this process?
And I think the weird partabout it for me is did I have a confession?
(09:58):
Yes.
I never confessed, though.
They had a, they gave me ahandwritten confession that the state's
attorney went out of the roomand wrote based on the court reported
statements that he had.
And they told me that we don'tneed you to tell us anything.
We already have enough for.
From the other guys.
(10:18):
Right.
So they, they pushed it as ahandwritten statement of mine, but
it wasn't in my handwriting.
It was in his handwriting.
And when he was posed thequestion of how long did he talk
to me?
This man said he talked to mefor 30 minutes and went out and wrote
a five page statement, a fourand a half page statement.
(10:40):
So my lawyer was like, sowhere are your notes from that conversation?
I didn't take one.
So you didn't take not one note.
You had a 30 minuteconversation with this man and you
made a four and a half pagestatement that you said is verbatim
what he said to you.
So it's like for me it wasjust different.
(11:06):
And I think the question was,how did I cope with the.
What was your first question?
Which is how you.
With all this going on,they're trying to mentally break
you down.
How do you.
In the middle of all of that,deal with that pressure of this interrogation?
Terribly, because.
Because I left with a statement.
(11:26):
Right.
So it's like, as much as Itried to deal with it, like, eventually
it kind of broke me.
And it was so weird becausethey were badgering me so much that
at times I was in that roomquestioning myself, like, but I don't
get high.
I don't drink still to this day.
(11:47):
So it's like, no, you couldn'thave been there.
No.
But they saying you was there.
And now I'm questioning whereI was that day.
And that's.
Right.
That mentally confused me and.
And baffled me to the pointof, why are they saying this if you
weren't there?
So I was just trying to figurethat stuff out in my head.
(12:09):
But I.
I feel like I failed at it,and I feel like I should have continued
to stick to.
I just want to talk to mylawyer and move forward from there.
But if they weren't.
So you had.
You asked for your lawyer.
So tell me how they deniedyour lawyer being there during this
whole process.
Seems like that's.
That right there shouldn'thave happened, but.
(12:29):
Exactly.
But at that time, there wereno safeguards in place, so it's why
we're.
Yes.
They're gonna always say, Inever asked for an attorney.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Really?
Go back through my record andsee that I had an attorney of record
that I actually paid on myprevious cases.
So they know that I knew the process.
But they still.
(12:50):
When they went to court, theirargument was that I never asked for
an attorney.
And why wouldn't I when I'vehad an attorney before?
Right.
So tell me how the trial went,because apparently, you know, from
what I read, you did go toprison for a while.
You.
Even though evidence was notthere to support them putting you
in prison, how'd that trial go?
(13:11):
I think the biggest factor tome is the term that they use that
you're gonna be tried by ajury or your peers.
Those were not my peers.
Like, you had old retiredschool teachers from affluent areas
in Illinois, where rich areasthat were really terrified of what
was going on in the inner cityat the time.
(13:33):
And they just kept talkingabout the gang culture.
Like, my trial, to me, wasn'teven really about me.
It was about what gangs do.
They're bad people.
They hurt people, and this iswhat they do.
And so I just think theyscared the jury into believing that
(13:54):
you're doing society a favorby taking these young Men off the
streets.
And so I, like, when I look atmy whole trial, like, they rarely
talk directly about me.
They were talking about codefendants who weren't there testifying.
They were talking about thegang culture and the lifestyle and
(14:15):
the things that they perceiveall gang members to do.
So from listening to yourstory, they also withheld evidence
that would have proven your innocence.
How did you get.
Finally get the evidence infront of a jury or a judge to prove
that you were innocent about it?
I just.
(14:36):
I could only give it to.
To a higher power.
Like, somebody was lookingover us, and somebody had a plan
for our lives, and they weregoing to see us through it, right?
So I believe it was God,because, like, we had.
I have a co defendant, DanielTaylor, right?
He was actually incarceratedthe day this murder happened.
(14:57):
They went and got him and beathim into confessing that he was holding
somebody while I murdered him.
Daniel didn't realize or couldremember that he was in jail until
they took him out of theinterrogation room, put him in lockup.
So he asked for thedetectives, like, man, I got to talk
(15:17):
to them.
So when they came down, he waslike, I couldn't have been there.
I was in jail the day thatmurder happened.
They went and looked him up inthe system.
He wasn't there yet because hehadn't been to court yet, because
it was like a city disorderlyor something, right?
And so they didn't believehim, so they sent us to the county
jail.
So about three days later, wehave a police report in our possession.
(15:41):
Now, because I have all of myemotional discovery where they found
his bond slip.
And they went to theirsupervisor and said, we found her
arrest report for DanielTaylor that shows that he was in
jail at the time of this murder.
What should we do?
Their supervisor told them,you can't do nothing because his
(16:01):
statement intertwines with theother six people that y' all arrested.
So if you take his statementback, you got to take all theirs
back, because his name is inthe same place and theirs that is
in everybody in his.
So they let it go through thesystem, through the process, right?
And so we're in jail like Iended up doing me.
(16:24):
And Daniel was sentenced tonatural life.
Daniel ended up doing 20 yearsin, like, the 19th year, because
we were constantly writingpeople for help to try to get us
back in court to prove our innocence.
And we, by the grace of God,again met a lady named Karen Daniel,
who unfortunately isn't here anymore.
And she was at the center forwrongful conviction at Northwestern
(16:48):
she met us one time and waslike, I'm not leaving you guys until
I get you guys out of here.
Because I truly believe in youguys innocence and I'm gonna see
this through.
So over the course of themfiling stuff and still getting denied
with this man showing that hewas in jail.
Let me go back a little bit.
We in, we in the county likethree months and Daniel's coming
(17:11):
to court every month saying,man, I was in jail.
So we sitting there like, howcould you have been in jail but you
sitting here with us like, youcouldn't have been in jail, right?
So I'm like, where's your bond slip?
He like, it's in my wallet.
Like, where's your wallet?
In my property in Cook county jail.
(17:31):
I'm like, send your lawyerover there to get your wallet.
His lawyer go get his wallet.
Lo and behold, the bond slipis there.
So the next court date, hepresents this to the judge.
The judge sent Daniel homethat day, gave him an I bond, say,
hey, you're going home today.
Something went terribly wrongat that police station.
I don't know what, but we'regoing to figure it out.
(17:52):
The rest of you guys just bepatient and let us sort through this
stuff.
Being a 17 year old kid who'sawarded the state, who, like myself,
had no guidance, Daniel wentright back to the neighborhood, ended
up getting caught with a drugcase, trying to sell some drugs.
So he comes back to the countywith us, which put everything back
(18:14):
on slow motion.
There's no hurry, there's nourgency now because he's back in
jail with us so we can movehow we move.
And I think we ended upgetting a new judge who hadn't heard
any of the facts about our case.
And he started hearing thecase, he started sending people to
trials and hearing motions.
Within the first week, usgetting in his courtroom, who knew
(18:35):
absolutely nothing about thecase, right?
So now me and Daniel, we're convicted.
We found people to help.
We.
We got the, the first personwe met as a reporter named Steve
Mills from the ChicagoTribune, who started writing articles
about police corruption, falseconfessions, and how they interrogate
young men of color, right?
(18:58):
And his stories brought somelight to us, which brought the center
for Wrongful Conviction to us.
So in the course of Karen,Daniel now filing stuff for Daniel
to try to get him home, theywere getting denied in the circuit
court level.
So she had filed a writ ofhape's corpus in the Illinois supreme
court level, which goes to theattorney general's office.
(19:20):
So when it came to theattorney general's office.
She requested an assistantattorney general, requested every
piece of paper that thestate's attorney or Chicago police
department had pertain inside case.
They do this thing in Chicagocalled the official file.
And then they have a street file.
(19:42):
The street file is every pieceof evidence that they occur, that
they obtain during their investigation.
The official file is what theychoose to put in there.
So they must have sent both.
And in that street file wassome documents from December of 1992.
(20:03):
Now, mind you, this is 2013.
In this street file, there'ssome stuff from December 1992 where
they sent the state's attorneyto the police station.
We got arrested December 2nd.
Throughout the 2nd and the 3rdof 92, around December 20th, something.
They sent the state's attorneyto the police station to check on
(20:23):
Daniel's story because by thistime, they know he was in jail.
The lockup officer, thecivilians that worked in the lockup,
they found all his cell mates.
He had like three cell matesfrom that night.
They all said, yes, this isthe man that was here that night.
They made that disappear.
(20:44):
We didn't see that for 19 years.
So that's the evidence thatwhen she got it, she wrote Karen
Daniel a letter and said, I'mforwarding you some documents and
I'm not responding to thispetition until you take these documents
back to the circuit court andlet them deal with this.
This issue.
(21:04):
Because no lawyer in his rightmind had these papers in their possession
and didn't use them.
Because that was the key thatwould have freed all of us back in
92.
And when Cameron found that, Iwant to say within three to four
months, Daniel was at home.
And then he.
Six months after he went home,I made it home.
(21:26):
So I did end up doing 21 years.
And he did a total of, Ithink, little over 20.
That's an amazing story.
How, how so?
As you think about our justicesystem, what are some of the flaws
that you see?
I'm sure you've been thinkingabout this for a long time now.
What are some flaws that yousee need to be corrected so this
(21:47):
doesn't happen again?
I think for me, like, theflaws are human error.
And the people that they putin charge of putting these cases
together, right, because thelaw is the law.
But when you can skirt the lawand do what you want to do and there's
no repercussions behind youractions, then people are going to
(22:07):
continue to do what they do.
Because I don't think any ofthe things that happened to us Were
by chance.
I think they were direct acts.
I think these were intentionalacts that people did because they
didn't care and there was noaccountability for them on their
end.
So like, and then I also payattention to, I'm a size and symbol
(22:29):
type guy.
Like, I noticed that the, thestatue of justice holds scales and
it has a blindfold on, right?
Justice is blind.
I think justice eyes is wideopen and it plays out based on the
color of your skin and who you are.
And I think like a lot ofpeople just don't get a fair shot
(22:51):
at justice.
Because if you, if you'regoing strictly by the book, a lot
of people wouldn't be in that situation.
I'm kind of curious.
Your situation seems so random.
How did they pick you fourpeople out of, I guess a list of,
you know, millions of peoplein Chicago.
How did you four get caught upin this?
It was actually eight of ustotal that got charged.
(23:12):
Okay.
They, they had a homicide thathappened in the neighborhood that
we grew up in.
They deemed it a drug related homicide.
At the time, this was a verydrug infested neighborhood.
We hung out there and I'm notgonna sit here and be like, I was
(23:33):
an angel and I wasn't doing, Iwas doing everything the right way
because I wasn't right.
So I think they targeted thepeople that hung on that block.
And they had one with, theyhad a witness who saw some people
come out.
She didn't hear shots, butshe's living her window and she noticed
people hovering around thatentrance of the courtyard at that
(23:55):
time.
And then like 10, 15 minuteslater, that was hundreds of police
there.
So she get up like, what'sgoing on?
And they tell her whathappened and she tell them what she
saw.
Like 30 minutes earlier she idone of my co defendants.
Okay, I saw him come out of there.
But at this time, this is a 32year old man that at 20, I wasn't
(24:17):
hanging with 32 year olds.
At 5th, at 15, he wasn'thanging with 32 year Olds.
Right.
And so the police, she hadidentified him by name because he
had been in and out of thatentrance and she had bumped into
him a couple times.
But she described three otherpeople that was with him.
So they say four people wentinside the apartment.
(24:37):
So when they started doing theroundup, they started with the 15
year old who had an IQ of 66or 67.
So they deemed him likeborderline handicapped.
And they put pictures in frontof him and asked him, who do you
hang with?
And he picked out us.
Like, I'll be with him.
I'll be with him.
(24:58):
I'll be with him.
I'll be with him.
And they picked roles for usat that time and was like, okay,
we're gonna put these fourhere outside as lookouts.
So they tried, they put themlike they were standing on different
corners while we went in.
And then they picked four ofus and said we actually went inside
the apartment.
And that's how they ended upwith, with eight.
(25:19):
And then when I go back to thepictures, right.
In 1992, technology wasn'twhat it is today.
So in order to get pictures ofguys, you had to order them.
And then it takes 40, 48 hoursfor them to process your order as
a police.
You got to get in your car, goto 11th Estate to pick up the pictures
(25:42):
and bring them back to thepolice station.
Remember the day, December2nd, November 29th, they wrote a
police report saying, closethis case after our days off.
So they had already made uptheir mind because they ordered those
pictures November 29th.
But when they got on the standduring the course of our trials,
(26:04):
one of the key questions tothem would always be, when you wrote
this police report and signedit, did you have any suspects?
And he would adamantly say, no.
So how did you end up withtheir pictures then if you didn't
have any suspects?
Right.
And it went a step further.
My lawyer asked him, when'sthe first time you heard Deon Patrick's
(26:25):
name?
The man said, when LewisGardner, which was the 15 year old,
picked him out of a picture, Ishowed him.
Where did you get a picture ofhim from if you had never heard his
name before?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
I didn't have a picture.
I went in there and Lewis toldme his name and then I went and got
the pictures.
You still wouldn't have hadthem pictures for 48 hours.
(26:45):
So it just didn't make sense.
Like, so they really hadalready devised a plan.
Like, these guys hang right here.
This happened right here.
It's a drug related murder.
We think that they're the drugsellers right here.
So we're going to give themthis case.
And they had made up theirmind November 29, that that was what's
(27:07):
going to happen when they cameback to work.
And it didn't matter then thatyou were innocent of this particular
crime, you were innocent of.
You were guilty of some crimein their mind?
Probably.
Definitely.
Wow.
So what's life been like foryou after getting out of prison?
I mean, you went to prison at,you know, Your whole life ahead of
you.
You spent 21 years there.
What.
(27:28):
What's.
What was life like?
Trying to get back intosociety and adjust to life after
that was all over.
I think, for me, like, I camehome to.
I could actually say a greatsupport system.
Like, I had some familymembers who genuinely cared and were
happy to see that I was home.
(27:50):
Kept me out the way a littlebit, but was pointing me in the right
direction as far as reobtaining, like, my driver's license
and ID and stuff like that.
So for me, I think it's great.
Like, I just have learned howto weather a lot of things because
lately I've been getting aquestion about happiness.
And I don't really know when'sthe last time I've truly been happy.
(28:14):
Right.
And, like.
And I think it started when Iwas 16 years old.
But I'm still here, and I'mstill making a difference in other
people's lives.
So I'm content.
But I really don't know whathappiness looked like because so
much.
So many things have transpiredin my life that I'm just here in
the.
In the flesh and I'm goingthrough the motions right now.
(28:36):
Right.
And I'm okay with that.
Like, I'm not.
I'm not depressed, nor am I sad.
Right.
But I just don't know whattrue happiness looks like.
So you.
You.
The video I saw of this wholestory was called the Hazel Boys.
You guys have a book out thatyou're telling a story to let people
know what you went through?
Yes.
The Hazel Boys was titled thatbecause the area we come from is
(29:00):
Agatitan Hazel.
Those are the cross streets.
So we called ourselves theHazel Boys because we feel like at
that time, that area was beingtargeted heavy.
And I can't say that it wasbeing targeted for the wrong reasons,
because, like I said, a lot ofus were young, misguided men, and
we were doing things that wedidn't have any business doing.
(29:22):
Right.
And I think just paying homageto where we come from and to show
people that there was a lot ofgood people that did come out of
that neighborhood that gotwrapped up in some of that stuff
back then who had reallychanged their lives.
And I'm doing somethingdifferent now.
So do you think about what youwent through?
And if you.
(29:43):
If you were speaking to ayoung Deion today, what would you
tell him?
I'll tell him I'm sorry.
Like, I would apologize forall the things.
And it's.
It's funny you asked thatbecause that's One of the things
that Benny Lee did that mademe feel like he was talking to me
and he was asking the room ofyoung men, if you could talk to your
(30:04):
10 year old self, what wouldyou tell them?
Because these guys wereincarcerated at the time, right.
And at 10, like, we're soinnocent, we're so full of hope and
joy and we just want to playand have fun.
And so right now I woulddefinitely apologize to him and I
would tell them like, I'msorry that I took them through some
of the things that I've takenthem through.
(30:25):
But I'm so focused on beingthe best version of myself now that
we're okay.
Now we all know how difficultprison life can be.
How did you navigate orimprove yourself in prison when it's
really not?
We always think that prison isabout rehabilitation when it's really
not.
It's really about punitive,punishing people for decisions they've
(30:47):
made.
How did you keep your witsabout you in that system and come
out on the other side and notgo back into a life of crime like
one of your, one of your coworkers, one of your fellow prisoners
did?
Yeah, I think that was theperfect way to say that, like, because
(31:08):
I think we learned a long timeago that the punishment is supposed
to be your sentence.
Right.
And then go to jail, you'resupposed to be rehabilitated so you
could be re acclimated into society.
There's no sense of realrehabilitation in there.
And I think they're gettingback to that.
But I think with us, we gotlucky and there were some staff members
(31:28):
around that believed in change.
And so we had a sister inthere named Ms.
Miles who started thislifestyle redirection class in there.
But she was hand picking whoshe wanted in this class because
she saw certain things incertain guys, right.
And it took off and it reallylike opened our eyes up to who we
(31:49):
are because it allowed us totell our story, be ourselves.
It taught us about me androles in the community and within
your family and what youreally supposed to be doing with
your lives.
Right.
And.
And she wasn't the only one.
Like there was a few of themthat saw us as human beings and was
like, this guy has thepotential to be something different
(32:11):
than what he, what they say he is.
And so I think those thingshelped us a lot because I have a
lot of guys that are reallydoing well out here that have done
25, 30 years, but they left at16 and 17 years old.
And so now that we're back,it's like, now we are the man that
(32:32):
we should have always been,and we're going to continue on that
course.
I have a friend who's theexecutive director now of Illinois
Restored justice, and he did26 years and went to.
Caught his case when he was16, went to jail when he was 17.
So it's like, just the thingsthat we're doing now.
Like, we're showing societythat we do have the capacity to change
(32:52):
and that we can be a different individual.
What are some of the hurdlessomeone coming out of prison has
to overcome when they get backinto society?
Because it's like, you don'tget the best jobs coming out of prison,
so how do you find your waywhen you get back into society?
I think one of the biggesthurdles is dealing with the stigma
of you're a criminal.
(33:15):
And I think, like, we alsoused to doing our trainings, like,
when is our debt paid?
Because you got guys who'vebeen out 30 years and they go get
a job and that stuff still popup on their background.
And then they had a job andthey get fired as soon as they do
a background check.
Right.
But I think for me, like, oneof the biggest hurdles was getting
housing.
(33:39):
Got lucky again, because Icame home and I got into the violence
prevention field, where yourbackground doesn't really matter.
They just want you to be acredible messenger in the neighborhoods
that they want you to work in.
Right.
So I think even, like, withhousing, like, the first apartment
I applied, applied for theirlease, said that you couldn't have
(34:04):
been convicted of a crime inover a hundred years.
So I'm like, so that means yougot to be like 120something in order
to get this apartment.
So I was like, whoa.
So it took me to the pointwhere I had to get articles and send
property owners articles frommy case saying that I was wrongfully
(34:27):
convicted.
I had to send them newsclippings and stuff just to show
them that I'm not who they sayI was and give me the opportunity,
and I'm going to show you.
And then I also found myselfhaving to pay my rent for a whole
year up front just to prove topeople that I could sustain this
lifestyle and not be a problemto my neighbors as well.
(34:49):
So they didn't expunge yourrecord when you realized you were
innocent?
No, what they do is it willstay there, but they will.
You would have to go throughthe process of getting it expunged.
Like, I got pulled over for atraffic stop one day, and the first
question they asked me Was,when did I get off parole?
(35:09):
I had never been on parole, soI'm like, I ain't never been on parole.
And after I said that, theyasked more questions, but I didn't
feel compelled to answer.
Like, you go figure it out,because now I'm not that young kid
that's doing everything thewrong way.
Like, I have my driver's license.
I have my insurance.
So what are we talking about?
(35:30):
Right?
And we search your car.
Absolutely not.
Can I search your car?
Why would you ask that?
I'm like, why would you askthe search bucket.
So it's like, just understanding.
Like, I am a grown man now,and I do things the right way.
There's nothing illegal in mycar, and I have everything that I
need for you to write me aticket and let me go or just let
(35:53):
me go, because I wasn't doing anything.
They pulled me over justbecause they looked in my car, and
I guess they didn't like whatthey saw, and they.
They stopped me.
But those be the biggestobstacles, like, just getting over
that hurdle.
But I went through theexpungement process now.
So my stuff is.
My previous cases are sealed,and that case is expunged, so it
(36:16):
shouldn't be on my background now.
Wow.
So, Dion, I love to ask myguest this other question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
I feel like I'm still writing it.
Like, I want to be known as a.
A great father, a great dad, agreat human being.
I go see my mom a lot when Igo back because I moved from Chicago
(36:38):
now, and one of the questionsI asked her is like, are you proud
of me now?
Because.
And I think every day, I'mconstantly trying to do things to
make her proud.
And so I think, like, for me,my legacy, I want to be someone who
impacted the lives of theyouth and try to steer some of them
from not having to go down thepath that I went down or even have
(37:00):
to experience some of thethings that I experienced.
Right.
And so I'm just trying to.
I talk about writing myobituary all the time.
Right.
And I think that's what I'mdoing right now with the things that
I'm doing.
Because I've been to funeralswhere the obituary is like, well,
he got baptized at 5.
And then they start namingtheir siblings.
(37:20):
Right, Right.
Well, mine have more substanceto it.
And to be able to tell who'sthe man that my mother truly raised
for 16 years and to showsociety that this man came out and
did everything the right way,that's awesome.
Where can people find the bookthe Hazel Boys that connect with
you on social media?
(37:41):
You can find a book on Amazonas well as Barnes and Noble and then
social media right now is thehazelboys book.com and we can be
reached through that andsocial media.
That's the page that we'reusing now because it's open to all
of us.
So if you want to reach out toeither one of us who are the co authors,
(38:02):
we're there.
Well Dion, thanks so much forsharing your story and I just pray
that it inspires people butalso makes us aware of the system
that we are dealing with andhow sometimes it's just not like
you said sometimes justicedoesn't blind sometimes very much
justice can see exactly whatjustice is doing.
So we just pray that werealize that there are deeper stories.
(38:27):
There are more stories outthere than we're sometimes aware
of.
So thank you for sharing yourstory with us.
Definitely.
Well, Dion, welcome to thepodcast, my friend.
How you doing?
I'm fine.
To yourself.
Thanks for having me.
I can't complain one littlebit, except for the fact you're a
Beers fan.
Other than that, we're good.
We are we on the rise now.
Here we come.
All right, here we go.
So I'd love to ask my gueststhis question.
Dion, what's the best piece ofadvice you ever received?
(01:16):
I think coming from a strong,single black mother, like she always
instilled in me and mybrother, like, to never give up and
go after our goals andwhatever it was we wanted to.
Achieve in life, I love that.
That's good because you know, those.
Those mothers are backbone forso many, so many families, especially
in our community.
Definitely, definitely.
(01:38):
I'm curious, as you think,about people who have been in important
in your life.
Who are some people thatserved as a mentor or maybe inspiration
for you in your journey?
Well, as I just said, my mom,definitely, whom I lost at the age
of 16, but she impacted mylife so much that I still found myself
doing some of the things thatshe talked to me about.
(02:00):
And I found myself sayingthings to my kids that she once said
to me and my brother.
And then when I came home, Imet a lot of impactful people, like
some guys that I grew up withthat had already changed their lives
and got on the right path.
As a brother named ChristopherPatterson, that really steered me
(02:20):
in the right direction andwhat my goal and what I should have
been doing when I came homeand trying to better our communities.
And I've also trained under abrother named Benny Lee before who
instilled a lot of things in me.
I used to find myself in those trainings.
Some days while he's talkingto the audience, I would feel like
he's talking to me and I wouldbe getting everything that he was
(02:40):
saying out of it.
That's so.
It's so cool.
So tell us a little bit about.
Let's get into your story.
Tell us a bit about your lifebefore you were arrested.
What were your dreams and yourhopes for the future?
As I said a little bitearlier, like, I was raised by a
single mother.
Me and my brother, we're theonly siblings.
(03:05):
We had a pretty.
Compared to others lives, wehad a good life.
Like, my mother worked hard.
She made sure me and mybrother had all the things we needed
to be successful and to do thethings that we needed to do.
She moved us away from acommunity that was somewhat impoverished
and crime ridden because shewanted to show us something Different.
(03:26):
So she moved us from thenorth, from the west side of Chicago
to the north side of Chicagoto just get us to experience different
cultures and different peoples.
Right, people.
Right.
And I think my dreams were wereally didn't have many options in
our household.
We were either going tocollege, we was going to the military.
(03:48):
We was doing something.
But at 18, we had to make a choice.
Right.
So I think at that time in mylife, I was prepared to go away to
college.
My brother was already incollege when my mom passed, and I
was a sophomore in high schoolgoing into my junior year.
And I think that was our goalsand aspirations, just to be successful
young men and do the rightthings in life.
(04:11):
So tell us how you got intothe situation you were in.
Because I looked, I read yourstory, saw the video, but just kind
of give us the backdrop as tohow you ended up in the situation
you ended up in.
I think some things transpiredin my life.
Like I said a minute ago.
I lost my mom at 16, became anangry, misguided kid, became a very
(04:35):
poor manager of my time in mylife, started hanging out more in
the streets, ended up in thestreet gang culture and around those
who I perceived to be myfriends at the time.
And I think now I understandwhat the word friend means.
So I just started making poor decisions.
(04:55):
Like, I became angry.
I started fighting a lot.
Started getting in trouble inschool, which I never had issues
at school until after that.
Started out in all honorsclasses, perfect attendance in school
every day, very attentive.
And I think the thing for mewas, like, losing her, like, it took
(05:16):
that guidance away from methat I had, and I really didn't know
how to guide myself, but Ididn't want to listen to anybody
else.
So I started to rebel againstpeople that were actually trying
to help me.
And that's where I kind offound myself going down the wrong
path.
So tell me your initialreaction to getting arrested and
being accused of this crimeyou were accused of.
(05:38):
Initially, like, they came tomy grandmother's house because I
had moved back into a buildingthat she owned.
I thought they were kidding.
Like, I just couldn't believe it.
Because I knew for a fact thatme and nobody that I hung with or
ran around, we had anything todo with it.
So I think I was in shock inthe beginning, but I kept, like,
(06:01):
trying to get them tounderstand, like, you got the wrong
guy.
Like, I don't really know whatyou're going with or what you're
thinking, but I'm not the manyou're looking for.
Wow.
So we, we've all heard,especially being in Chicago myself,
I heard about some of theprocesses they use for interrogation
in Chicago and other, otherbig cities too.
(06:21):
I know Los Angeles had a bigproblem with interrogation too.
So kind of describe thatprocess to us that you went through
and what tactics did they useto get you cooked on this, on this
crime?
I think like at that time Iwas 20, I had a co defendant who
was 15, I had two that was 17and two was 19.
(06:43):
So we were all like very youngmen or kids.
And so when they first got me,the first thing I said was, I want
to speak to my attorney.
Because I had just come homefrom some cases where I had a paid
attorney who I had a greatrelationship with.
Still knew her number by heart.
They never allowed me to.
(07:04):
So they took me in a room andthey handcuffed me to this ring on
the wall.
And it's a chair that sits bythe ring, but they immediately took
the chair away from me.
So now I'm standing handcuffedto this ring and they left me there
for hours.
So they came back in.
By this time I'm sitting onthe floor and my arm is hanging from
the ring.
(07:25):
And they're telling me that wegot some people down here that say
you, you actually murderedthese people.
And I'm like, that's impossible.
Like you can't have nobodydown here saying I did it.
And so now they telling methat it's my so called friends at
the time, which were guys thatI hung with in the neighborhood that
were part of the streetculture and stuff like that.
And I'm like, nah, because Ireally knew these guys, but I didn't
(07:49):
hang with them like that.
So I think the interrogationprocess was just constant badgering
because I don't have a claimof being physically beaten.
Because when I asked myattorney, I think they kind of pulled
back off of me, like, well, wecan't beat him because he's gonna
see an attorney soon as heleave this room and he's gonna tell
him what happened.
(08:10):
So I think more of my stuffwas mental where they kept me in
a room for like almost two anda half days.
They didn't feed me.
They did take me to thebathroom once or twice, but they
didn't feed me, they didn'tlet me get anything to drink.
I never knew what time it was.
Like if I start to fall asleep.
Like they were using thesesleep deprivation tactics too, where
(08:31):
they'll kick the door in andbe like, oh, this is what's happening.
They're saying that you did.
And they.
It will wake me up and put meback in shock.
And I think just eventually Icome to the conclusion, oh, and then
it got to the point where theystarted showing me court reported
statements from other guys.
So in my mind I'm saying,okay, somebody else is in this room
(08:53):
with them other than these detectives.
So I'm like, okay, I want to confess.
I want to tell y' all whathappened, but I wanted them to bring
other people in the room.
So when they brought thestate's attorney and the court reporter
in the room, I think I kind ofjumped the gun and I said that.
So y' all about to make meconfess to something I didn't do.
(09:16):
The state's attorney tappedthe court reporter and left back
out the room and left me withthe detectives to continue to badger
me.
And so at that point I knewlike, I wasn't leaving that room
without being charged withthis case.
And I just decided like, I'mready to go and let somebody else
(09:36):
listen to the truth as opposedto the people that we had been talking
to.
Wow.
That.
So you're stuck in a room andthey're, they're doing everything
to break you down.
So you confess.
What's your emotional,psychological feelings as you're
going through this process?
And I think the weird partabout it for me is did I have a confession?
(09:58):
Yes.
I never confessed, though.
They had a, they gave me ahandwritten confession that the state's
attorney went out of the roomand wrote based on the court reported
statements that he had.
And they told me that we don'tneed you to tell us anything.
We already have enough for.
From the other guys.
(10:18):
Right.
So they, they pushed it as ahandwritten statement of mine, but
it wasn't in my handwriting.
It was in his handwriting.
And when he was posed thequestion of how long did he talk
to me?
This man said he talked to mefor 30 minutes and went out and wrote
a five page statement, a fourand a half page statement.
(10:40):
So my lawyer was like, sowhere are your notes from that conversation?
I didn't take one.
So you didn't take not one note.
You had a 30 minuteconversation with this man and you
made a four and a half pagestatement that you said is verbatim
what he said to you.
So it's like for me it wasjust different.
(11:06):
And I think the question was,how did I cope with the.
What was your first question?
Which is how you.
With all this going on,they're trying to mentally break
you down.
How do you.
In the middle of all of that,deal with that pressure of this interrogation?
Terribly, because.
Because I left with a statement.
(11:26):
Right.
So it's like, as much as Itried to deal with it, like, eventually
it kind of broke me.
And it was so weird becausethey were badgering me so much that
at times I was in that roomquestioning myself, like, but I don't
get high.
I don't drink still to this day.
(11:47):
So it's like, no, you couldn'thave been there.
No.
But they saying you was there.
And now I'm questioning whereI was that day.
And that's.
Right.
That mentally confused me and.
And baffled me to the pointof, why are they saying this if you
weren't there?
So I was just trying to figurethat stuff out in my head.
(12:09):
But I.
I feel like I failed at it,and I feel like I should have continued
to stick to.
I just want to talk to mylawyer and move forward from there.
But if they weren't.
So you had.
You asked for your lawyer.
So tell me how they deniedyour lawyer being there during this
whole process.
Seems like that's.
That right there shouldn'thave happened, but.
(12:29):
Exactly.
But at that time, there wereno safeguards in place, so it's why
we're.
Yes.
They're gonna always say, Inever asked for an attorney.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Really?
Go back through my record andsee that I had an attorney of record
that I actually paid on myprevious cases.
So they know that I knew the process.
But they still.
(12:50):
When they went to court, theirargument was that I never asked for
an attorney.
And why wouldn't I when I'vehad an attorney before?
Right.
So tell me how the trial went,because apparently, you know, from
what I read, you did go toprison for a while.
You.
Even though evidence was notthere to support them putting you
in prison, how'd that trial go?
(13:11):
I think the biggest factor tome is the term that they use that
you're gonna be tried by ajury or your peers.
Those were not my peers.
Like, you had old retiredschool teachers from affluent areas
in Illinois, where rich areasthat were really terrified of what
was going on in the inner cityat the time.
(13:33):
And they just kept talkingabout the gang culture.
Like, my trial, to me, wasn'teven really about me.
It was about what gangs do.
They're bad people.
They hurt people, and this iswhat they do.
And so I just think theyscared the jury into believing that
(13:54):
you're doing society a favorby taking these young Men off the
streets.
And so I, like, when I look atmy whole trial, like, they rarely
talk directly about me.
They were talking about codefendants who weren't there testifying.
They were talking about thegang culture and the lifestyle and
(14:15):
the things that they perceiveall gang members to do.
So from listening to yourstory, they also withheld evidence
that would have proven your innocence.
How did you get.
Finally get the evidence infront of a jury or a judge to prove
that you were innocent about it?
I just.
(14:36):
I could only give it to.
To a higher power.
Like, somebody was lookingover us, and somebody had a plan
for our lives, and they weregoing to see us through it, right?
So I believe it was God,because, like, we had.
I have a co defendant, DanielTaylor, right?
He was actually incarceratedthe day this murder happened.
(14:57):
They went and got him and beathim into confessing that he was holding
somebody while I murdered him.
Daniel didn't realize or couldremember that he was in jail until
they took him out of theinterrogation room, put him in lockup.
So he asked for thedetectives, like, man, I got to talk
(15:17):
to them.
So when they came down, he waslike, I couldn't have been there.
I was in jail the day thatmurder happened.
They went and looked him up inthe system.
He wasn't there yet because hehadn't been to court yet, because
it was like a city disorderlyor something, right?
And so they didn't believehim, so they sent us to the county
jail.
So about three days later, wehave a police report in our possession.
(15:41):
Now, because I have all of myemotional discovery where they found
his bond slip.
And they went to theirsupervisor and said, we found her
arrest report for DanielTaylor that shows that he was in
jail at the time of this murder.
What should we do?
Their supervisor told them,you can't do nothing because his
(16:01):
statement intertwines with theother six people that y' all arrested.
So if you take his statementback, you got to take all theirs
back, because his name is inthe same place and theirs that is
in everybody in his.
So they let it go through thesystem, through the process, right?
And so we're in jail like Iended up doing me.
(16:24):
And Daniel was sentenced tonatural life.
Daniel ended up doing 20 yearsin, like, the 19th year, because
we were constantly writingpeople for help to try to get us
back in court to prove our innocence.
And we, by the grace of God,again met a lady named Karen Daniel,
who unfortunately isn't here anymore.
And she was at the center forwrongful conviction at Northwestern
(16:48):
she met us one time and waslike, I'm not leaving you guys until
I get you guys out of here.
Because I truly believe in youguys innocence and I'm gonna see
this through.
So over the course of themfiling stuff and still getting denied
with this man showing that hewas in jail.
Let me go back a little bit.
We in, we in the county likethree months and Daniel's coming
(17:11):
to court every month saying,man, I was in jail.
So we sitting there like, howcould you have been in jail but you
sitting here with us like, youcouldn't have been in jail, right?
So I'm like, where's your bond slip?
He like, it's in my wallet.
Like, where's your wallet?
In my property in Cook county jail.
(17:31):
I'm like, send your lawyerover there to get your wallet.
His lawyer go get his wallet.
Lo and behold, the bond slipis there.
So the next court date, hepresents this to the judge.
The judge sent Daniel homethat day, gave him an I bond, say,
hey, you're going home today.
Something went terribly wrongat that police station.
I don't know what, but we'regoing to figure it out.
(17:52):
The rest of you guys just bepatient and let us sort through this
stuff.
Being a 17 year old kid who'sawarded the state, who, like myself,
had no guidance, Daniel wentright back to the neighborhood, ended
up getting caught with a drugcase, trying to sell some drugs.
So he comes back to the countywith us, which put everything back
(18:14):
on slow motion.
There's no hurry, there's nourgency now because he's back in
jail with us so we can movehow we move.
And I think we ended upgetting a new judge who hadn't heard
any of the facts about our case.
And he started hearing thecase, he started sending people to
trials and hearing motions.
Within the first week, usgetting in his courtroom, who knew
(18:35):
absolutely nothing about thecase, right?
So now me and Daniel, we're convicted.
We found people to help.
We.
We got the, the first personwe met as a reporter named Steve
Mills from the ChicagoTribune, who started writing articles
about police corruption, falseconfessions, and how they interrogate
young men of color, right?
(18:58):
And his stories brought somelight to us, which brought the center
for Wrongful Conviction to us.
So in the course of Karen,Daniel now filing stuff for Daniel
to try to get him home, theywere getting denied in the circuit
court level.
So she had filed a writ ofhape's corpus in the Illinois supreme
court level, which goes to theattorney general's office.
(19:20):
So when it came to theattorney general's office.
She requested an assistantattorney general, requested every
piece of paper that thestate's attorney or Chicago police
department had pertain inside case.
They do this thing in Chicagocalled the official file.
And then they have a street file.
(19:42):
The street file is every pieceof evidence that they occur, that
they obtain during their investigation.
The official file is what theychoose to put in there.
So they must have sent both.
And in that street file wassome documents from December of 1992.
(20:03):
Now, mind you, this is 2013.
In this street file, there'ssome stuff from December 1992 where
they sent the state's attorneyto the police station.
We got arrested December 2nd.
Throughout the 2nd and the 3rdof 92, around December 20th, something.
They sent the state's attorneyto the police station to check on
(20:23):
Daniel's story because by thistime, they know he was in jail.
The lockup officer, thecivilians that worked in the lockup,
they found all his cell mates.
He had like three cell matesfrom that night.
They all said, yes, this isthe man that was here that night.
They made that disappear.
(20:44):
We didn't see that for 19 years.
So that's the evidence thatwhen she got it, she wrote Karen
Daniel a letter and said, I'mforwarding you some documents and
I'm not responding to thispetition until you take these documents
back to the circuit court andlet them deal with this.
This issue.
(21:04):
Because no lawyer in his rightmind had these papers in their possession
and didn't use them.
Because that was the key thatwould have freed all of us back in
92.
And when Cameron found that, Iwant to say within three to four
months, Daniel was at home.
And then he.
Six months after he went home,I made it home.
(21:26):
So I did end up doing 21 years.
And he did a total of, Ithink, little over 20.
That's an amazing story.
How, how so?
As you think about our justicesystem, what are some of the flaws
that you see?
I'm sure you've been thinkingabout this for a long time now.
What are some flaws that yousee need to be corrected so this
(21:47):
doesn't happen again?
I think for me, like, theflaws are human error.
And the people that they putin charge of putting these cases
together, right, because thelaw is the law.
But when you can skirt the lawand do what you want to do and there's
no repercussions behind youractions, then people are going to
(22:07):
continue to do what they do.
Because I don't think any ofthe things that happened to us Were
by chance.
I think they were direct acts.
I think these were intentionalacts that people did because they
didn't care and there was noaccountability for them on their
end.
So like, and then I also payattention to, I'm a size and symbol
(22:29):
type guy.
Like, I noticed that the, thestatue of justice holds scales and
it has a blindfold on, right?
Justice is blind.
I think justice eyes is wideopen and it plays out based on the
color of your skin and who you are.
And I think like a lot ofpeople just don't get a fair shot
(22:51):
at justice.
Because if you, if you'regoing strictly by the book, a lot
of people wouldn't be in that situation.
I'm kind of curious.
Your situation seems so random.
How did they pick you fourpeople out of, I guess a list of,
you know, millions of peoplein Chicago.
How did you four get caught upin this?
It was actually eight of ustotal that got charged.
(23:12):
Okay.
They, they had a homicide thathappened in the neighborhood that
we grew up in.
They deemed it a drug related homicide.
At the time, this was a verydrug infested neighborhood.
We hung out there and I'm notgonna sit here and be like, I was
(23:33):
an angel and I wasn't doing, Iwas doing everything the right way
because I wasn't right.
So I think they targeted thepeople that hung on that block.
And they had one with, theyhad a witness who saw some people
come out.
She didn't hear shots, butshe's living her window and she noticed
people hovering around thatentrance of the courtyard at that
(23:55):
time.
And then like 10, 15 minuteslater, that was hundreds of police
there.
So she get up like, what'sgoing on?
And they tell her whathappened and she tell them what she
saw.
Like 30 minutes earlier she idone of my co defendants.
Okay, I saw him come out of there.
But at this time, this is a 32year old man that at 20, I wasn't
(24:17):
hanging with 32 year olds.
At 5th, at 15, he wasn'thanging with 32 year Olds.
Right.
And so the police, she hadidentified him by name because he
had been in and out of thatentrance and she had bumped into
him a couple times.
But she described three otherpeople that was with him.
So they say four people wentinside the apartment.
(24:37):
So when they started doing theroundup, they started with the 15
year old who had an IQ of 66or 67.
So they deemed him likeborderline handicapped.
And they put pictures in frontof him and asked him, who do you
hang with?
And he picked out us.
Like, I'll be with him.
I'll be with him.
(24:58):
I'll be with him.
I'll be with him.
And they picked roles for usat that time and was like, okay,
we're gonna put these fourhere outside as lookouts.
So they tried, they put themlike they were standing on different
corners while we went in.
And then they picked four ofus and said we actually went inside
the apartment.
And that's how they ended upwith, with eight.
(25:19):
And then when I go back to thepictures, right.
In 1992, technology wasn'twhat it is today.
So in order to get pictures ofguys, you had to order them.
And then it takes 40, 48 hoursfor them to process your order as
a police.
You got to get in your car, goto 11th Estate to pick up the pictures
(25:42):
and bring them back to thepolice station.
Remember the day, December2nd, November 29th, they wrote a
police report saying, closethis case after our days off.
So they had already made uptheir mind because they ordered those
pictures November 29th.
But when they got on the standduring the course of our trials,
(26:04):
one of the key questions tothem would always be, when you wrote
this police report and signedit, did you have any suspects?
And he would adamantly say, no.
So how did you end up withtheir pictures then if you didn't
have any suspects?
Right.
And it went a step further.
My lawyer asked him, when'sthe first time you heard Deon Patrick's
(26:25):
name?
The man said, when LewisGardner, which was the 15 year old,
picked him out of a picture, Ishowed him.
Where did you get a picture ofhim from if you had never heard his
name before?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
I didn't have a picture.
I went in there and Lewis toldme his name and then I went and got
the pictures.
You still wouldn't have hadthem pictures for 48 hours.
(26:45):
So it just didn't make sense.
Like, so they really hadalready devised a plan.
Like, these guys hang right here.
This happened right here.
It's a drug related murder.
We think that they're the drugsellers right here.
So we're going to give themthis case.
And they had made up theirmind November 29, that that was what's
(27:07):
going to happen when they cameback to work.
And it didn't matter then thatyou were innocent of this particular
crime, you were innocent of.
You were guilty of some crimein their mind?
Probably.
Definitely.
Wow.
So what's life been like foryou after getting out of prison?
I mean, you went to prison at,you know, Your whole life ahead of
you.
You spent 21 years there.
What.
(27:28):
What's.
What was life like?
Trying to get back intosociety and adjust to life after
that was all over.
I think, for me, like, I camehome to.
I could actually say a greatsupport system.
Like, I had some familymembers who genuinely cared and were
happy to see that I was home.
(27:50):
Kept me out the way a littlebit, but was pointing me in the right
direction as far as reobtaining, like, my driver's license
and ID and stuff like that.
So for me, I think it's great.
Like, I just have learned howto weather a lot of things because
lately I've been getting aquestion about happiness.
And I don't really know when'sthe last time I've truly been happy.
(28:14):
Right.
And, like.
And I think it started when Iwas 16 years old.
But I'm still here, and I'mstill making a difference in other
people's lives.
So I'm content.
But I really don't know whathappiness looked like because so
much.
So many things have transpiredin my life that I'm just here in
the.
In the flesh and I'm goingthrough the motions right now.
(28:36):
Right.
And I'm okay with that.
Like, I'm not.
I'm not depressed, nor am I sad.
Right.
But I just don't know whattrue happiness looks like.
So you.
You.
The video I saw of this wholestory was called the Hazel Boys.
You guys have a book out thatyou're telling a story to let people
know what you went through?
Yes.
The Hazel Boys was titled thatbecause the area we come from is
(29:00):
Agatitan Hazel.
Those are the cross streets.
So we called ourselves theHazel Boys because we feel like at
that time, that area was beingtargeted heavy.
And I can't say that it wasbeing targeted for the wrong reasons,
because, like I said, a lot ofus were young, misguided men, and
we were doing things that wedidn't have any business doing.
(29:22):
Right.
And I think just paying homageto where we come from and to show
people that there was a lot ofgood people that did come out of
that neighborhood that gotwrapped up in some of that stuff
back then who had reallychanged their lives.
And I'm doing somethingdifferent now.
So do you think about what youwent through?
And if you.
(29:43):
If you were speaking to ayoung Deion today, what would you
tell him?
I'll tell him I'm sorry.
Like, I would apologize forall the things.
And it's.
It's funny you asked thatbecause that's One of the things
that Benny Lee did that mademe feel like he was talking to me
and he was asking the room ofyoung men, if you could talk to your
(30:04):
10 year old self, what wouldyou tell them?
Because these guys wereincarcerated at the time, right.
And at 10, like, we're soinnocent, we're so full of hope and
joy and we just want to playand have fun.
And so right now I woulddefinitely apologize to him and I
would tell them like, I'msorry that I took them through some
of the things that I've takenthem through.
(30:25):
But I'm so focused on beingthe best version of myself now that
we're okay.
Now we all know how difficultprison life can be.
How did you navigate orimprove yourself in prison when it's
really not?
We always think that prison isabout rehabilitation when it's really
not.
It's really about punitive,punishing people for decisions they've
(30:47):
made.
How did you keep your witsabout you in that system and come
out on the other side and notgo back into a life of crime like
one of your, one of your coworkers, one of your fellow prisoners
did?
Yeah, I think that was theperfect way to say that, like, because
(31:08):
I think we learned a long timeago that the punishment is supposed
to be your sentence.
Right.
And then go to jail, you'resupposed to be rehabilitated so you
could be re acclimated into society.
There's no sense of realrehabilitation in there.
And I think they're gettingback to that.
But I think with us, we gotlucky and there were some staff members
(31:28):
around that believed in change.
And so we had a sister inthere named Ms.
Miles who started thislifestyle redirection class in there.
But she was hand picking whoshe wanted in this class because
she saw certain things incertain guys, right.
And it took off and it reallylike opened our eyes up to who we
(31:49):
are because it allowed us totell our story, be ourselves.
It taught us about me androles in the community and within
your family and what youreally supposed to be doing with
your lives.
Right.
And.
And she wasn't the only one.
Like there was a few of themthat saw us as human beings and was
like, this guy has thepotential to be something different
(32:11):
than what he, what they say he is.
And so I think those thingshelped us a lot because I have a
lot of guys that are reallydoing well out here that have done
25, 30 years, but they left at16 and 17 years old.
And so now that we're back,it's like, now we are the man that
(32:32):
we should have always been,and we're going to continue on that
course.
I have a friend who's theexecutive director now of Illinois
Restored justice, and he did26 years and went to.
Caught his case when he was16, went to jail when he was 17.
So it's like, just the thingsthat we're doing now.
Like, we're showing societythat we do have the capacity to change
(32:52):
and that we can be a different individual.
What are some of the hurdlessomeone coming out of prison has
to overcome when they get backinto society?
Because it's like, you don'tget the best jobs coming out of prison,
so how do you find your waywhen you get back into society?
I think one of the biggesthurdles is dealing with the stigma
of you're a criminal.
(33:15):
And I think, like, we alsoused to doing our trainings, like,
when is our debt paid?
Because you got guys who'vebeen out 30 years and they go get
a job and that stuff still popup on their background.
And then they had a job andthey get fired as soon as they do
a background check.
Right.
But I think for me, like, oneof the biggest hurdles was getting
housing.
(33:39):
Got lucky again, because Icame home and I got into the violence
prevention field, where yourbackground doesn't really matter.
They just want you to be acredible messenger in the neighborhoods
that they want you to work in.
Right.
So I think even, like, withhousing, like, the first apartment
I applied, applied for theirlease, said that you couldn't have
(34:04):
been convicted of a crime inover a hundred years.
So I'm like, so that means yougot to be like 120something in order
to get this apartment.
So I was like, whoa.
So it took me to the pointwhere I had to get articles and send
property owners articles frommy case saying that I was wrongfully
(34:27):
convicted.
I had to send them newsclippings and stuff just to show
them that I'm not who they sayI was and give me the opportunity,
and I'm going to show you.
And then I also found myselfhaving to pay my rent for a whole
year up front just to prove topeople that I could sustain this
lifestyle and not be a problemto my neighbors as well.
(34:49):
So they didn't expunge yourrecord when you realized you were
innocent?
No, what they do is it willstay there, but they will.
You would have to go throughthe process of getting it expunged.
Like, I got pulled over for atraffic stop one day, and the first
question they asked me Was,when did I get off parole?
(35:09):
I had never been on parole, soI'm like, I ain't never been on parole.
And after I said that, theyasked more questions, but I didn't
feel compelled to answer.
Like, you go figure it out,because now I'm not that young kid
that's doing everything thewrong way.
Like, I have my driver's license.
I have my insurance.
So what are we talking about?
(35:30):
Right?
And we search your car.
Absolutely not.
Can I search your car?
Why would you ask that?
I'm like, why would you askthe search bucket.
So it's like, just understanding.
Like, I am a grown man now,and I do things the right way.
There's nothing illegal in mycar, and I have everything that I
need for you to write me aticket and let me go or just let
(35:53):
me go, because I wasn't doing anything.
They pulled me over justbecause they looked in my car, and
I guess they didn't like whatthey saw, and they.
They stopped me.
But those be the biggestobstacles, like, just getting over
that hurdle.
But I went through theexpungement process now.
So my stuff is.
My previous cases are sealed,and that case is expunged, so it
(36:16):
shouldn't be on my background now.
Wow.
So, Dion, I love to ask myguest this other question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
I feel like I'm still writing it.
Like, I want to be known as a.
A great father, a great dad, agreat human being.
I go see my mom a lot when Igo back because I moved from Chicago
(36:38):
now, and one of the questionsI asked her is like, are you proud
of me now?
Because.
And I think every day, I'mconstantly trying to do things to
make her proud.
And so I think, like, for me,my legacy, I want to be someone who
impacted the lives of theyouth and try to steer some of them
from not having to go down thepath that I went down or even have
(37:00):
to experience some of thethings that I experienced.
Right.
And so I'm just trying to.
I talk about writing myobituary all the time.
Right.
And I think that's what I'mdoing right now with the things that
I'm doing.
Because I've been to funeralswhere the obituary is like, well,
he got baptized at 5.
And then they start namingtheir siblings.
(37:20):
Right, Right.
Well, mine have more substanceto it.
And to be able to tell who'sthe man that my mother truly raised
for 16 years and to showsociety that this man came out and
did everything the right way,that's awesome.
Where can people find the bookthe Hazel Boys that connect with
you on social media?
(37:41):
You can find a book on Amazonas well as Barnes and Noble and then
social media right now is thehazelboys book.com and we can be
reached through that andsocial media.
That's the page that we'reusing now because it's open to all
of us.
So if you want to reach out toeither one of us who are the co authors,
(38:02):
we're there.
Well Dion, thanks so much forsharing your story and I just pray
that it inspires people butalso makes us aware of the system
that we are dealing with andhow sometimes it's just not like
you said sometimes justicedoesn't blind sometimes very much
justice can see exactly whatjustice is doing.
So we just pray that werealize that there are deeper stories.
(38:27):
There are more stories outthere than we're sometimes aware
of.
So thank you for sharing yourstory with us.
Definitely.
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