August 6, 2025 • 51 mins
Callie Claire Boswell, a distinguished author and World War II historian, joins us to illuminate the profound impact of legacy and resilience in our lives and communities. Throughout our discourse, we explore how she guides creators, caregivers, and change-makers to transform their narratives into lasting legacies. Boswell's multifaceted approach, encompassing her artistic endeavors and historical insights, underscores the necessity of cherishing and honoring our shared histories. We delve into the complexities of grief, the bittersweet nature of loss, and the importance of nurturing connections that transcend generations. Join us as we engage in a thought-provoking dialogue that invites reflection on the enduring power of storytelling and the human spirit in the face of adversity.
The dialogue unfolds in a profound exploration of historical narratives and personal legacies, featuring the esteemed author and historian Callie Claire Boswell. Throughout our conversation, we delve into the intricate tapestry of World War II history, not merely as a series of events but as a rich narrative that intertwines the lives of those who lived through it. Callie illuminates her journey as a historian, emphasizing her commitment to uncovering the lesser-known stories of individuals who contributed to the war effort, particularly women and marginalized communities. This emphasis on inclusivity and representation is crucial, as it allows us to understand the multifaceted nature of history and the importance of preserving these narratives for future generations.
As we traverse various themes, the conversation takes a poignant turn towards the concepts of death, loss, and resilience. Callie shares her personal experiences with grief, illustrating the bittersweet nature of life where joy and sorrow coexist. She eloquently articulates the struggle of navigating loss while honoring the memories of loved ones, particularly in the context of her recent experiences with the passing of a family friend. In this context, we explore the significance of storytelling as a means of processing grief and its role in creating a lasting legacy. Callie's insights encourage us to reflect on our own lives and the stories we wish to tell, emphasizing the importance of legacy in shaping our identities and the world around us.
Takeaways:
- Callie Claire Boswell, a prominent World War II historian, emphasizes the importance of legacy and resilience in her work.
- Through her artistic endeavors and writing, Callie seeks to inspire creators and caregivers to preserve meaningful narratives.
- The conversation touches on the emotional complexities of loss and the interplay between joy and sorrow in navigating grief.
- Callie discusses her diverse heritage and the significance of recognizing and honoring various cultural backgrounds in family traditions.
Links referenced in this episode:
- callieclaire.com
- homefrontdiary.com
- nativeamericanspiritwheel.com
- unlockyourinnermagic.com
- worldwar2coloringbook.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:50):
My guest today, Kylie ClaireBoswell, is a best selling author,
World War II historian andartist who helps creators, caregivers
and change makers turn thisstory into something that lasts.
Whether she's painting,writing, or leading powerful conversations
about legacy and resilience,Callie brings heart, humor, and a
(01:11):
deep love of beauty toeverything she does.
We welcome her to the podcast.
Well, Callie, welcome to the podcast.
How you doing today?
Hi, Keith, how are you?
I am fabulous.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
I love history, so it shouldbe a fun conversation.
You know what, I don't know,it was like meant to be that you
(01:34):
and I were speaking thismorning because I had done the World
War II documentary and I metthis gentleman at the nursing home
at the, at the assisted livingwhere my, my mother in law had been.
Oh, okay.
And that had been such a tough road.
Oh my goodness.
(01:56):
And so meeting him sort ofchanged everything for our family.
Girl Scouts.
It brought everybody joy.
And so all I was going to sayabout that is that he passed away
on Sunday.
Oh, wow.
It's hard.
It's really hard on my littleguy who's just seven.
(02:17):
But you know what I love?
I want to talk about yourreligion, I want to talk about your
spiritual self, and I want totalk about, you know, how we all
have to sort of keep puttingone foot in front of the other each
day.
And the bitter, you know, thebittersweet summertime days for me
(02:38):
are like I just put a WorldWar II coloring book up online.
And then the same day, youknow, Frank dies.
Yeah.
And it's hard.
It is hard.
Death and loss is so difficultto navigate.
And it's hard because we,while we, especially if you're a
(03:01):
Christian, if you've rejoicedin the fact that, you know, they're
in a better place.
But there's still that tension of.
Yeah, but you're going to miss them.
You're going to miss theopportunity to spend time with them.
So there is this, this joymixed with sorrow that kind of melds
together and you're.
As you try to move forward inthat existence.
So.
Yeah, it's a tough road tohold sometimes.
(03:21):
I think so too.
You know, I'm, my grandparentswere Church of the Brethren and the
Friends, Quaker Friends.
And some of the, one of thegentlemen at the assisted living,
Herbert said, you're a friend.
It's written all over you.
And yet I, I don't really havea formal religion and yet I seem
(03:45):
to be involved in so manythings because, you know, the masters
in World War II history wasreally about the hidden stories.
So my grandfather was coast guard.
He was trained by the prizefighter Jack Dempsey.
Oh, wow.
Yes, I do.
(04:06):
So Keith, his picture sat onmy grandparents dresser until the
day that, that he died.
And then the day that she died.
And so the training was inRome, New York.
By complete coincidence,that's where Frank Wall Jr.
Lived.
(04:27):
So I have this image of mymind that perhaps they passed on
the street.
And then my grandparents camefrom a very, what we would consider
today a cold patch town.
Okay.
So all the cultures, all themelting pots.
I know that I greeted you andI told you my joke was about the
Mrs. Haney cake.
(04:48):
And that's how we connected.
And she was part of that.
And so today my own nuclearfamily is mixed heritage, but my
extended family is.
Is that cultural melting pot.
And it's so beautiful.
And I think that if youweren't raised with that, it's hard
(05:10):
to understand how special, youknow, how special that is.
I'm.
I'm reading Dr. ClarissaPinkola Estes, who is.
She does a beautiful piece onthe Mother Mary.
I haven't, I haven't read that yet.
But what I have read is theWomen who Run with Wolves.
And now I'm reading theCreative Fire.
(05:32):
And she just was saying abouthow she was also raised in a beautiful
melting pot.
I think that I feel moresecure in the world than I fear that
my children are living in.
How do you feel about that?
That's hard.
My kid.
My family is also very blended.
(05:54):
We are a very diverse familyof very diverse backgrounds.
And so my wife and I areinterracially married and our kids
kind of sometimes strugglewith the identity issue.
And I was trying to figure outa way when they were early on, how
to describe what they were.
And I said, you're kind oflike chocolate swirl ice cream.
You're the best of both.
Yeah, I love it.
(06:16):
Yeah, but you're right.
But what makes our familyunique is that we try to approach
every new person coming to the family.
Kind of like you would likewhen we do Thanksgiving dinner.
Here's a good example.
I will do the meat for thatdinner, and then I let everybody
bring their own favorite dishto the meal.
So it's never the traditionalThanksgiving dinner.
(06:37):
It is Thanksgiving dinner,maybe with a little bit of Asian,
a little bit of Mexican.
It's whatever dish you grew upwith that you love.
So it's kind of thissmorgasbord meal of all of our cultures
coming together and we puttogether and have A family meal together.
So it's kind of a neat way ofdoing something.
Honoring all the differentcultures and honoring our past as
(07:00):
well as our traditions.
That's how we do it too.
I mean, food is such a part ofmy growing up.
You know, I can remembersaying to my grandmother, this, this
is the same grandmother.
Her name was Pleasant, but soshe was a really good cook.
And oh my gosh, Keith, whenshe passed away, they had the, you
(07:23):
know, the funeral.
And then in the hall, all ofher girlfriends that she had grown
up with.
And one of those girlfriendswas her sister in law.
Okay.
They'd been together theirwhole lives through.
And that particular lady, thisis my aunt Genevieve, my great aunt.
But she had a Native Americanfather who was mixed race, you know,
(07:47):
white, African American, allof it.
And the stories that she toldme about how he decided to choose
a wife today would be sopolitically incorrect.
But, but they were so like,how can I deny her story of that?
You know what I mean?
(08:08):
Yeah.
And then doing all the historyin the World War II, that's really
fascinating as well, becauseyou, you know, people try to separate
the Holocaust from the battle,from the battlefield, and you can't
do that.
Right.
(08:29):
And we're being pushed to thatagain 80 years later.
And you know what's sointeresting is I've had the privilege
of meeting some of the mostinteresting people.
One of the ladies I think youwould have really loved to meet,
her name was Ruth Gruber andshe was a journalist.
And she came to this women'sluncheon that I did in Washington
(08:50):
D.C. which was so fun.
They knew I liked World War II.
We had these great people, butlike Keith, like Jackie Kennedy's
secretary sat next to me,Letitia Baldrige.
I mean, like, she, you know,like the wheelchair.
And I would, you know, do gether situated.
And all the things that I'mnot, I'm not confident.
(09:11):
I know my kids are learningit, my Girl Scouts are learning it,
the Rangers, the brothers that come.
But I'm not confident thatpeople understand that we're always
in service.
Sure.
And like, that was like thebiggest honor for me to wheel her
in, sit beside her, make sureshe had what she needed.
(09:31):
And then if I got a littlestory or some little beautiful nugget,
how great was that?
And then, you know, this ladywith Gruber, she was famous because,
well, she was very humble, butshe was the one that got the only
ship of refugees out of Europe.
(09:51):
And so what had happened wasshe had interviewed Gertrude Stein,
she had written a Book on Russia.
And it was the women.
And so it was Mrs. Rooseveltand it was Secretary.
The Secretary of State Hall'swife, I think her name is Cordelia.
And they had said, listen,this is really bad optics.
(10:14):
Like you're turning theseships away back to whatever hell
instead of like finaglingsomething to be able to keep them,
you know, the Kwanzaa, etc.
And so they said, listen, thisyoung girl, she had graduated, I
think with her PhD.
(10:35):
She graduated college at like 17.
And so her joke to theaudience was that Lindbergh was on
the top of the fold and shewas on the bottom of the fold as
the youngest PhD.
But anyways, her story was sofascinating because she had gone
to Russia when no one was there.
She had written like a kind oflike a more tactical sort of a book.
(10:58):
And what had happened was theysent her to Alaska.
They said, this girl would be great.
You guys are thinking aboutannexing Alaska.
Let her meet people, do the statistics.
She did that.
And so I'm sitting like reallyface to face with her.
She's right in my line ofvision, you know, and she tells this
(11:18):
story about being in Alaska.
And the Secretary of Statecalls her, the trunk is on the airplane.
She's been there for monthsand months and months and months.
And she says, listen, you guysall go ahead, I've got to take this
call.
Which Even like in 1939, 1940,there were 50,000 employees at the
State Department.
So it was not a small thingthat she was getting this one to
(11:41):
one call right through, right.
And so she talks to him andmakes a plan to go see him and literally
hangs up the phone and hearsthe news that the plane that she
was supposed to be on thatliterally just took off has crashed
and killed everyone aboard.
Wow.
And so she said, this is inher book Haven.
(12:05):
And so she said, anything thatthis man asked of me, I was going
to do.
So fast forward, she's back inWashington and they say, you are
going to go to Europe and youare going to get these political
and religious refugees.
However, they cannot just beJews, they must be all Christians,
(12:28):
they must be Roma, them, andyou must interview them in person.
And then they meet you at theship, at the port.
And anyone that did not wasnot able to make it, whether they
had died or whatever.
Those seats were not filled, Keith.
So I think the final numberwas around 900 of the thousand that
(12:49):
she had met in person.
And she had an oss, her motherhad come down on the train and to
say, what are you going to doto protect my Jewish daughter.
And so all of these feelingsof how we employed the four freedoms,
you know, FDR's four freedoms,and how we employed our ability to
(13:13):
allow people to worship freelywere so of the moment then, and they're
so of the moment now.
And for me, I. I will not saythat I've waffled.
Rather, I have chosen to walkthe path before me, but actually,
(13:35):
what it's changed for me nowis the book, and that's the Native
American Spirit Wheel Dream Journal.
And that's more about, Ithink, the practicality of the physical
life that we're leading onearth, led by the formality of nature
(13:56):
and that expression of weplant our seeds, are we even planting
what we want to do?
I feel like so much has beenpassionless lately.
Right, of course, that's likeour creator part, you know, that's.
That's our God part.
That's saying, what are you.
What are you going to create?
Because if we don't processthose things through, they become
(14:19):
poisonous, they become toxicif we're not pursuing what it is
that we really wish to bedoing, and then watering that and
then harvesting it andapplying that to what happens in
life, our projects in life.
So I think, in a way, I've gota lot of the Joseph Campbell in me
(14:40):
where I like to see theparallels of all of these wonderful
religions and how we can takethem and honor them.
And I would say that for mepersonally, and this is something
I spoke with your fellowpodcaster Kim Sorrell about, is just
the fact that my baseline forreligion is about the beneficence,
(15:08):
the.
The beneficial humanitarian goodwill.
And if a religion crossesthat, then we've got a problem.
Right.
So let's.
I'm going to dig into yourwork a little bit more because I'm
fascinated as to how you goton this pathway that you are.
(15:31):
That you.
That you're doing historicalresearch, kind of.
How did you get on thehistorical research path?
You know what?
My parents always joked thatthey were.
That they fell in love witheach other because they both loved
history.
And we went all over thecountry, like all the Native American.
My mother's a part of the archaeology.
My dad is an environmentalist.
(15:53):
They love this.
Well, they left usRevolutionary War, Civil War.
We went to all the president's homes.
So that was part of me.
And I read the great writers.
I think that that more thananything, is something that's able
to spark imagination.
You know, I think some of thethings that we read, Keith, that
(16:17):
are a reason that we have acommon denominator in our ability
to be friends, even thoughwe've never met, like, we know each
other.
And I think that's missing in today.
I don't think that peoplerealize what's been subtracted.
The kids are not learningabout Native American education.
They don't know.
It doesn't really matter howyou say the words.
(16:38):
They have no knowledge, like,indigenous person, you know, Native
American Indian.
They don't.
They don't.
Like, it's like you'respeaking another language.
And so the things that we wereraised with, the cornucopia, the,
you know, you draw your handand you make the feather, and all
the traditional stuff we didat Thanksgiving now has been erased
(17:02):
through sort of like thepolitical correctness.
And so there's.
There's so much there that I see.
Regardless, story, narrativecomes from your parents, your grandparents.
You want to know them better.
And I had a pappy who wasspecial, Keith.
He.
They.
Every day, somebody differentwas knocking on the door.
(17:24):
He copied, signed all theloans for anyone that wanted to go
to college.
Any picture, he's on his kneefixing a toy.
You know, he had boats, and,gosh darn it, there was no way in
the world that you were goingto run or not be safe.
Like, he had rules, but hemade it fun.
Like the log.
There was the crocodile.
(17:46):
Watch out.
You must walk very slowly andvery quietly or you will get bitten
and you will never get to theriver to have whatever adventure
you're about to have.
And so he made it fun and interesting.
And so he was really badlyinjured when he was 59.
And I think that part of myjourney has been wanting to know
(18:09):
him better because the parentshad separated.
He was hitchhiking fromSouthwestern PA the whole way to
the Finger Lakes of New Yorkby himself.
And he was loving, and hedidn't have any bad habits.
They didn't have caffeine.
There was, you know what I mean?
Like, other when.
(18:29):
Other than when he was like 6or 7 years old and the stepdad had
come home every day and said,making my home brew.
Making my home brew.
And the boys broke in anddrank it all and got so horribly
sick that.
And that was it for him.
You know what I mean?
(18:50):
Right.
And so I think that because hewas sort of robbed of retirement
because of the injuries on thejob site, he was an electrician that
I. I did it just to, like, becloser to him in my.
In my heart.
You know what I mean?
Right.
So for me, I think the visualability came from, you know, I started
(19:14):
as a painter, but the visualability started with reading.
You know, like, if you're notreading like the Hound of the Baskervilles
when you're like 9 and 10years old and envisioning those dogs
and the mystery and likehiding your head into the covers
and you know, all of that stuff.
But so anyways, that's how itstarted and I think that's how it
(19:37):
should start.
And then I went to CarnegieMellon and I on the weekends and
my dad drove me and he workedin the library to finish his work
for the week.
And I had my painting and sculpture.
In fact, I just had the visionof what my senior project was.
(19:58):
And that was a slave.
It was a, it was a full figurethat I had done.
Um, and then I went to scad.
Savannah College of Art and Design.
And my mother had said, youknow, Cal, we don't think that being
a painter is all that there isfor you.
You should have like a realskill set.
(20:18):
And so then that was historicpreservation and interior design.
And when I came to WashingtonD.C. i don't think any of the people
knew what to do with me.
I was really bright, superconfident, sold big multi million
dollar jobs to very, veryfamous people.
(20:38):
And 30 years later, you know,I joke about it, but it's not really
a joke.
My claim to fame is that I'venever been sued.
And that is because inlitigious Washington, because I learned,
I knew how to talk to peopleand I met them at their own level
and they knew that I was wellmeaning and they wanted the best
thing for their family andtheir life.
(20:59):
And I was gonna use theirbudget and whatever we could get
for it.
Whether that budget was 80,000or a million, you know.
So then when I had kids latein life, I was bored.
So you can't really paint whenyou've got babies because they'll
put things in their mouth andyou know what I mean?
(21:19):
And so the dining room tablejust filled up with all this stuff
and I started writing,writing, writing and, and my husband
was like, what the heck areyou doing?
And I'm like writing and researching.
And so I realized prettyquickly I didn't know how to do the
citations and I wanted to makesure I was doing it right.
(21:41):
So I went to American Military University.
And Keith, when I tell youthat I went there, it's a remote
online school.
They have I think 80,000students a year.
It's gigantic.
When I tell you that I wentthere, I physically went there, I
took the baby in the carriage,and I went over to Charleston, West
(22:02):
Virginia, and I'm like, hi,I'm Callie.
I'm thinking about going here.
I'd like to see the library.
And they're like, this is aremote school.
Yes, I know.
Yes, I understand that.
It's Internet.
Gotcha.
But still.
And so they took me to lunch.
They let me go through the library.
This is just before COVID Hit.
(22:24):
And, you know, so I loved that school.
It was so fascinating, becauseI honestly can't think of a better
way to get your Master's.
I'm not.
I don't think that yourbachelor's should be that way.
That should be all of the experiences.
Making new friends, showing upon time, taking care of hygiene,
(22:45):
your appointments, your calendar.
But your master's is adifferent thing.
And for that, I would highlyrecommend amu, because I had the
best professors in the world,and they.
They could have been anywhere.
They could have been livinganywhere, studying themselves anywhere.
(23:06):
And all the West Pointers, youknow, it was fascinating.
So they were so loving, like,I was really doing.
I didn't.
Nobody told me untilafterwards, but I was actually studying
public history.
But still, my.
My War in Europe paper isbeing used as an example to this
(23:27):
day.
My military paper, becausethey had.
You have this, like, wonkygame that only, like, true warriors
are playing.
And what was crazy about itwas it was, like, with a keyboard,
and, like, if you hit thewrong button, you're, like, looking
at the sky or you're, like, athousand feet up, you know?
(23:48):
And so what I did with thispaper and what the professor really
liked about it, he eventuallydid my thesis.
But what he liked about itwas, like.
I was like, okay, well, arethose my.
My bombs hitting, like, in the training?
Like, which one were mine?
How can you tell?
Like, there's a guy next to me firing.
There's a guy over here firing.
(24:09):
Am I hitting a target?
I have no idea.
Right.
And so.
Right.
And so then.
And then I have vertigo.
And I also do not have a senseof direction.
And sense of direction, by theway, for everybody out there, is
genetic.
Oh, good.
So when I get lost, it's notmy fault.
I can.
I can tell it's not your fault.
That's right.
No.
And so what happened was Idecided to just pretend that this
(24:34):
was actually the training inWorld War II.
And if I ran into the forestand I was totally lost and I had
no idea what direction I was.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
You know, and you could pickYour battle, I think I was Normandy,
but, you know, like, so you'recoming out of a house.
And the.
And the teacher just loved it.
He said, cali.
He said, we think that that'swhat happened to the original band
(24:58):
of brothers, the one that DickWinters, the redheaded guy, if you
saw it, the one that hereplaced, because every time he was
so highly trained, he was soexcellent at everything.
He had the game mind of like,you know, like football coach.
Like, this is how we're goingto gather.
This is we're going to do.
This is how we're going to get him.
But the problem was he ran inthe wrong direction every single
(25:20):
time.
That would have been Keith.
I would have lasted 30seconds, right?
I would not have.
It would not have been good.
And so hopefully that's aquestion on the questionnaire these
days.
I don't know, but if you'regoing to be a soldier or a Marine,
do you have a sense of direction?
I hope my son is an army, sothat would be good to know.
(25:41):
It is good to know.
And just don't worry becausemy dad does have a sense of direction.
And it wasn't until we, like,met my mom's cousins that we realized
it.
And then later on I studiedabout it.
But still, regardless what,what, what it was that story of Pappy
and Jack Dempsey, who was areally loving guy now he had gotten
(26:06):
himself in trouble and likethe 30s where he had kind of like
bumped out of the draft orsomething like that, and he was wearing
like polished shoes in a photoand everybody said, ah.
But the.
The reality was that he waslike this really awesome guy and
he would sit for hours andtalk to people.
(26:29):
He had his restaurant in NewYork City, he would give away money,
he would sign autographs.
And so I learned that wasactually my first paper was a dual
paper on Jack Dempsey and my Pappy.
And what was so funny about itwas just because I wondered with
my grandfather coming from abroken home, how did.
(26:49):
How is he so kind?
How is he so just like a sweetheart?
And so I think that I see, Iunderstand that friendship in a different
way.
I don't even know that theykept in touch, but I know that Jack
Dempsey would have recognizedmy pap on a street and said, hey,
you know, hey, Harvey, how areyou doing?
(27:11):
So the other thing was that the.
The head General GeneralGeorge C. Marshall, George Katelyn
Marshall, was from my parentshometown, my dad's hometown, teeny
little nothing town,Uniontown, Pennsylvania.
And so for me, I wasfascinated by that.
(27:32):
And that was the second set of papers.
And I've been to his library,which happens to be on the campus
of vmi.
And so what my stories alltalk about are like, they're like
spy stories, but they're real.
So what I do is I say, okay,this is what's happened.
(27:52):
And we're going to drop ourhistorical actors into the play and
we're going to say, well, thenwhat did they do?
And so that's how I came upwith the, the concepts.
So I just found out thisweekend that the thesis the Cabinet
War Wives and is going toUniversity Press of Kansas.
So I'm really excited aboutthat at first.
(28:16):
Thank you, sweetie.
You know, like, oh, academia,I don't know how's this going to
be?
Are people going to read it?
Are they going to find it?
But you know what?
Everything changes.
And with the Cabinet WarWives, there's really important things
that people need to know.
As somebody who is in media,you will appreciate the fact that
(28:40):
Eleanor Roosevelt was thefirst person to speak to the country
after the Pearl harbor bombing.
The day before, she wassmiling, she was laughing, her picture
was on the, in the paper.
She had been at the Army Navygame, I think it was.
The woman wrote an article in265 papers across the United States,
(29:05):
five, six, seven days a week.
Then she was one of the mosthighly paid radio personalities earning
$50,000 in $1940 a week.
When you talk about all ofHollywood coming to the White House
and visiting and knowing themand all of that, well, heck, it wasn't
(29:29):
just him, it was her, too.
So she was a medium even.
And the relationships were sopivotal for having that homesy, folksy,
I'm in your living room, I'min your kitchen with you feeling.
(29:49):
And that is, I think, so muchof why America was so bound together.
That's, I think that was whythey were able to succeed and why,
you know, George C. Marshall,who really was the prototype of the
citizen soldier.
You know, if you, if you seeColin Powell or, you know, Jack Keane,
(30:12):
who's on the news a lot now,they, they, they are, they are really
saying, like it or not, we arethe purveyors of democracy, we are
the purveyors of freedom.
No one else is ever going topick up this stick and run with it
the way that we have.
So when everyone else hasabandoned it, when everyone else
(30:34):
has failed, we will still be here.
And there's, as your son willtell you, they have a dual role that
is one of the craziest Moststrange roles, and that is that they
are the humanitarians.
They are going in, they areholding the babies.
(30:56):
They are.
Their.
Their job is to be so acutelyaccurate with their killing that
they avoid any kind ofancillary injury or death.
I don't think people realizethat, that because war is a last
resort.
(31:17):
So for the most part, they arethe front facing the citizen soldier.
And that is a direct result ofWorld War II, which was such a.
A modern war with thephotography and the newspapers and,
you know, we don't think aboutit, but everybody was going to the
movies for relaxation.
And in the middle of the moviein those days, you just walked in.
(31:40):
Was movie tone news.
And so Eisenhower, again, youknow, here's this guy that was born
in a cornfield right now.
His granddaughter.
I adore her.
She.
She's.
She's so complimentary aboutmy knowledge about her family.
(32:01):
And.
But how did he get there, Keith?
Like, how did that happen thathe's able to stand on the world stage?
Okay.
How it happened was thateveryone in America at that time
had a classical education.
They read Greeks.
My parents, who were in their70s, okay, they had Latin first grade
(32:29):
through 12th grade.
Yep.
50% of our language is Latin American.
If you do that and you teachkids the root words, in that way,
they can go to 20 differentcountries and understand what they're
ordering on the menu, how toget around what the gist of anything
(32:49):
means.
But when we subtracted that.
That common language, I thinkwe did ourselves a real disservice
because at that time, everyonewas speaking a similar language and
the cultural and the art andthe food, and we were all travelers
(33:12):
of the world.
And I don't.
You know, you never hear aboutall of these World War II people
who then, in their 70s and80s, were traveling the world and
like, wrote their names on aShinto temple, you know, or damaged,
you know, some kind of, like,cultural site.
(33:32):
Because they had such respectfor life and they had such respect
for other cultures becausethey were being taught geography
and they were being taughtworld history and they were being
taught religious history andall of it just in public schools.
And I think that's what we'vereally subtracted.
So part of me is just sort oflike, I think like the.
(33:56):
The.
The bringer of the people'sheart, you know, that if the.
The humanitarian and these stories.
Stories do the same thing.
You know, in the Cabinet, Warwives, Eleanor Roosevelt, by the
end, had been the first ladyfor 12 years.
(34:18):
Wow.
While simultaneously havingthis huge media presence.
So when we dip into theserelationships, and that's what this
book does, and no one else hasdone it before, I'm proud to say.
One of the major relationshipsis Eleanor Morgenthau.
She was married by the mostfamous rabbi in the country at that
(34:38):
time, but she was not apracticing Jew.
She was not.
She had no interest in her religion.
But then world events forced everyone.
And this is something I'd likeyou to talk about, forced everyone
to pay attention because shewas labeled a Jew, whether she was
(35:00):
a practicing Jew or not, andshe was treated like a Jew.
Right.
And so when we talk about allof that, you know, our.
We.
We understand now that ourbrain stereotypes, that's part of
how we learn.
But when we go beyond that andwe apply that basis of what our spirituality
(35:26):
is, that commonality, thenwhat happens?
Right.
Exactly.
Well, in my tradition, familyspiritual tradition, that caretaker
part was given to Adam andEve, of course, by God.
It's like you are the stewardsof this.
And I think we have somehowlost that sacred responsibility to
(35:47):
be stewards.
Yes, it is.
It is inbred in us to do that.
You know, you name.
Adam named all the animals.
Adam named all the plants and the.
And the thing.
So he took the care to say,this is what this is.
And somehow we just have notremembered to honor that.
And we don't honor life oneither end, which is also tragic
(36:10):
in my.
In my world that we.
We stop looking at.
Like, you talk about thehonoring the babies that.
That next generation.
We are just here to steward that.
The resources that we havebecause we're leaving it for somebody
else.
Yeah, you wouldn't dare gointo your house that you own now
and just trash it going, well,I only have to live here, but I don't
(36:32):
have to.
I don't have to keep it upbecause at some point you'd like
to pass it down to your kidsand say, look, we took care of this.
Now you can take care of itand you can sell it.
You can live here.
But we want to pass downsomething that's valuable to you.
I think we lost that abilityto pass down.
Well, I. I wholly agree with you.
And it.
And it was lost.
I think on a lot of levels, itwas lost because we've made things
(36:55):
too easy for people.
It was lost because you can goto the grocery store and get any
kind of vegetable or fruit atany time of the year, Right?
So, like, people don'tunderstand how to grow things.
It's the seasonal.
And so we're starting to bringthat Back with, like, environmental
charter schools or, you know,where people are turning to homeschooling,
et cetera.
But I do, I do think thatthere's a lot to be hopeful of.
(37:19):
I do also think that there's alot to be leery of.
Right.
And I, you know, I went in andI taught Latin all of fourth grade
and fifth grade from my, my daughter.
And I hope I get invited backto do it for my son.
But you know what?
Like, soul.
Okay.
Solar panels.
(37:42):
Solarium.
Soul is actually where we getthe word soil, because they would
put their hand on the soil,and it would be warm, Warmth from
the sun.
So the word soil is soul.
Right.
Helios Helicopter.
Right in the, in the sky, inthe air.
(38:03):
So there's all sorts of waysand things that happen that I, I,
it frustrates me that we'renot making it easier on children,
Right.
Because they would naturallybe bilingual and then they would
roll in through their languages.
I mean, because I'm 52, andwhen I was, I was, I had a natural
(38:24):
knack for languages, so I hadgotten into GW for Romance languages.
I passed it up, but flew it inSpanish, and I taught myself French.
And so it had always beeninteresting to me thinking about
my parents who knew German andFrench in Podunk coal country, Pennsylvania.
(38:45):
Right.
And I was like, how the heck.
But they both areextraordinarily successful.
They both have that sense ofduty and the volunteerism.
And so I think that's also alot of what you see in what I'm offering.
You know, the Native Americanbook is about, like, value your time.
(39:05):
Right.
And it, it's a reminder, youknow, the next page of the one that
I was, I had showed you wasjust about, like, okay, every month
is a new moon, and then we getto the, you know, so the new moon
is where we're planting ourseeds, right.
And then it grows full moon,and then they're dying back, and
then we plant a new seed,which is talking about projects.
(39:29):
Right, Right.
It's talking about, you know,our stages of life and how to honor
that gracefully and, and toget a real understanding of what
can I bite off that I canactually chew?
Like, what, what can I do thatI'm actually going to be effectual
at?
(39:49):
And, you know, and, and havesomething that's really valid to
pass on now.
The World War II book, theWorld War II Coloring Book, and that's
under Callie Boswell.
It's an epic adventure foryoung historians.
That's.
That just went up thisweekend, too.
And again, it's not just theJeep and the Battle of Britain and
(40:13):
the ships at Pearl harbor, right?
It's this, it's this, theseimages of the bread lines, it's these
images of the dust bowl, it'sthese images of FDR in his wheelchair.
It is these images of thesekids who are getting tested to see
if they're going to be an A1.
(40:35):
And you know, they're all soscrawny because they were malnourished
through the entire Great Depression.
They weren't, there was notenough food and we didn't understand
our agricultural practices,which you and I are talking about
now, and how to shift outdifferent crops rotations to avoid
the dust bowl.
And so they weren't able to participate.
(40:59):
And the guilt and the angerthat came with that and then the
ones that do go to war, youknow, and the refugees getting on
the, on the trains.
So it really is a very wellrounded book and it, and it is bringing
to young readers likeHolocaust, what the heck is that?
You know, So I think that fortoo long we've watered it down and
(41:22):
made it more about the battlesversus the causes, right.
And human factor, which thathas to be everything.
And so for me, bringing inwomen, women on the home front, you
know, I love to read books andI'll just very quickly say one of
the ladies in the book is RuthGruber that I started this with.
(41:45):
But another is a woman namedHelena hall.
And Helena hall was fascinating.
She was in her 60s and shebecame an ARP warden.
She was not married, she hadno kids.
She was the town librarian.
She wrote, hand drew herChristmas cards.
She was tough.
And in her observations formass observation, she wrote that
(42:08):
the WI, the Women's Institute,got all of its seeds from Mrs. Roosevelt.
Now I'm going to estimate thatI've probably read over a million
pages.
I don't think that that's likea, I don't really think that's like
a far fetched thing.
When you think about the tensof thousands of papers I have, plus
the books, I have never seenthat anywhere.
Wow, I've never seen that anywhere.
(42:30):
So reading does enlighten you.
And you, you do think, howsmart is that?
Like they weren't just sendingfood, they were sending seeds.
Compact, tiny, could fit in awaxed bag in case the weather got
to it.
And then everyone in Englandcould then plant their onions, plant
their victory garden.
(42:51):
So, and super practical.
So I think that that's the magic.
The other book just to finishup, I'm sure We're running out of
time.
Is unlock your inner magic apractical guide.
And you know, our intuitiondoes, it does guide us all the time.
(43:15):
You know, don't leave yourhouse now, or don't, don't go down
the highway today or whatever.
We've all had those moments ofdeja vu.
And I really do believe that,that, that is just our inner, our
inner knowledge and we'retuned in and we're listening.
And so this is an importantbook because it's, it's validating
the ways that we get thosemessages which to me are messages
(43:37):
that, you know, perhaps as itwould be like a godwink.
Right?
Yes, Kathy would say, right,like a godwink.
So they are.
God winks when we hear thatvoice of God and we, or we see something
and we must honor it.
Right.
I think just as much as thecardinal coming to the window that
signifies to someone's heartthat the loved one is there.
(44:00):
All of these other things thatperhaps people had, have in the past
considered a cult orparanormal or woohoo in reality are
simply our, our other senses.
And those were senses thatjust have gotten lost in the noise.
And if we can go back and yetremember that we must be grounded.
(44:22):
We are human beings livingthat spiritual life, then this becomes
a really valuable tool.
But so often I think thatpeople are just.
I see it, I see it.
I don't know how it is in yourworld right now, but my, my people
are either totally doing greatand they're hanging in there or they're
not doing well at all.
(44:43):
There doesn't seem to be a lotin the middle right now.
Yeah, I agree.
People are struggling orthey're doing well.
Exactly.
They're either like puttingone foot in front of the other and
dealing with what's life'srolling at them, or they're really
not doing well and all themedications and all that stuff in
the water supply.
(45:03):
And so I think that evenpolitically we're seeing the pendulum
just sort of go all over the place.
And so really in the middle isright where we need to be.
Like EQ plus IQ plus Creativeplus spiritual.
You know, it all is.
That's, that's the moderationand the balance that we're all needing
and looking for.
And you know, my perfectclient is the high achiever.
(45:27):
Somebody who has.
Is confused, is perhaps fallenoff their path.
And you know, because my firstbusiness was the Inc 5000 business,
so I do have that beautifulway of seeing what the future holds
and understanding wherethey're being Held back.
(45:47):
And, you know, I have thehypnosis and all the rest of it,
but the dream analogy, butjust all the ways that we can walk
more purposefully each day andin the noticing in a gentle way to
sort of refocus that energyback onto our paths.
(46:07):
And it's an honor to do that.
That's awesome.
So I love to ask my guest this question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
It's been a struggle when Ianswer that, because I'm.
I'm very productive.
But I think that it's reallyall about love and humanitarian and
(46:34):
stewarding the earth andintuition for me.
We didn't speak about this,but I have lovely parents.
It's a non sequitur for me now.
It was not earlier in my life,but it was held hostage.
My father was a government official.
Our story ended well.
(46:56):
So many do not.
So for me, when I say that Isort of live with death, I think
perhaps that was the roots and.
And then just being me, themysteries and great grandmothers
who were midwives and, youknow, kind of like all of that.
So I am an intuitive.
(47:18):
I do have the gift.
I would say I'm probably oneof the best in the world.
But I don't necessarilybelieve, Keith, that we always need
to know what's coming down thepike for us.
Perhaps we need the healing ofthe trauma of the past and to learn
(47:39):
how to facilitate our owncommunication with those that we've
lost and.
And that we had unfinishedbusiness with the future.
I think we really just need tounderstand that we're.
We're ready, we're prepared,and that whether that day comes tomorrow
or in, you know, 50 years,we've got the wherewithal to deal
(48:01):
with that.
But there are peaks andvalleys to the gift.
Some of the peaks have beenthat I've predicted cancer accurately
many times or where an illnessis at in the body.
And so despite the fact thatI'm an academic about to have an
(48:24):
academic book, I have toincorporate that emotional intelligence
and intuitive being.
And that's a challenge becausespirit, right, has a bad rap, like
we say, when somebody's adrunk, that they're, you know, delving
(48:45):
into spirits or schizophrenia.
So there is always aresponsibility element with me that
any client of mine understandsand does not escape.
So for me, the way that I havefollowed those rules was to work
out of psychologists officesor psychiatrists offices or have
(49:07):
my ob gyn, you know, whomever,be the referral system so that I
knew that whoever I wasworking with was at a.
A moment of understanding.
Right.
So that challenge of legacy, Ithink is probably the biggest thing
is bringing home all of theintuitive, the emotional intelligence,
(49:33):
the humanitarian, thecompassion, the heart, and then funneling
that into practical means.
That's good.
You like that?
I do like that.
Where can people find yourbooks and connect with you on social
media?
Thank you so much.
So I'm at Caliclaire C A L L IE C L A I R E or Homefront Diary,
(49:57):
which is the World War II.
The speaking, the lectures andthen the books are all online.
And it's the Native Americanspirit wheel dream journal and it's
unlock your inner magic.
And The World War II ColoringBook, an epic adventure for young
historians is under Kaliboswell and caregivers.
(50:22):
911 will be out in the nexttwo weeks.
Wow.
Yeah.
Thank you, sweetie.
That will.
That's talking about whathappened when I was the medical power
of attorney for my mother in law.
So it is part memoir and partwhat to look out for and what you
must know and to preserve yoursanity and your life and your livelihood
(50:47):
because it can really rip afamily apart.
So that's what that one's about.
But they, they should all beunder the same author central there.
And then hopefully they'll becoming to Barnes and Noble soon because
I am on IngramSpark.
So I appreciate you.
Well, thanks so much forcoming on.
Blessings on the work you do.
And we'll be looking for thatnew book that's coming up because
(51:07):
I'm sure there'll be a lot ofhelp for people who are dealing with
that stage and that phase oftheir life or going to be dealing
with that stage and phase of life.
Yes.
Sandwich Caregiving.
Yes.
Thank you so much, Galley.
Thank you.
My guest today, Kylie ClaireBoswell, is a best selling author,
World War II historian andartist who helps creators, caregivers
and change makers turn thisstory into something that lasts.
Whether she's painting,writing, or leading powerful conversations
about legacy and resilience,Callie brings heart, humor, and a
(01:11):
deep love of beauty toeverything she does.
We welcome her to the podcast.
Well, Callie, welcome to the podcast.
How you doing today?
Hi, Keith, how are you?
I am fabulous.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
I love history, so it shouldbe a fun conversation.
You know what, I don't know,it was like meant to be that you
(01:34):
and I were speaking thismorning because I had done the World
War II documentary and I metthis gentleman at the nursing home
at the, at the assisted livingwhere my, my mother in law had been.
Oh, okay.
And that had been such a tough road.
Oh my goodness.
(01:56):
And so meeting him sort ofchanged everything for our family.
Girl Scouts.
It brought everybody joy.
And so all I was going to sayabout that is that he passed away
on Sunday.
Oh, wow.
It's hard.
It's really hard on my littleguy who's just seven.
(02:17):
But you know what I love?
I want to talk about yourreligion, I want to talk about your
spiritual self, and I want totalk about, you know, how we all
have to sort of keep puttingone foot in front of the other each
day.
And the bitter, you know, thebittersweet summertime days for me
(02:38):
are like I just put a WorldWar II coloring book up online.
And then the same day, youknow, Frank dies.
Yeah.
And it's hard.
It is hard.
Death and loss is so difficultto navigate.
And it's hard because we,while we, especially if you're a
(03:01):
Christian, if you've rejoicedin the fact that, you know, they're
in a better place.
But there's still that tension of.
Yeah, but you're going to miss them.
You're going to miss theopportunity to spend time with them.
So there is this, this joymixed with sorrow that kind of melds
together and you're.
As you try to move forward inthat existence.
So.
Yeah, it's a tough road tohold sometimes.
(03:21):
I think so too.
You know, I'm, my grandparentswere Church of the Brethren and the
Friends, Quaker Friends.
And some of the, one of thegentlemen at the assisted living,
Herbert said, you're a friend.
It's written all over you.
And yet I, I don't really havea formal religion and yet I seem
(03:45):
to be involved in so manythings because, you know, the masters
in World War II history wasreally about the hidden stories.
So my grandfather was coast guard.
He was trained by the prizefighter Jack Dempsey.
Oh, wow.
Yes, I do.
(04:06):
So Keith, his picture sat onmy grandparents dresser until the
day that, that he died.
And then the day that she died.
And so the training was inRome, New York.
By complete coincidence,that's where Frank Wall Jr.
Lived.
(04:27):
So I have this image of mymind that perhaps they passed on
the street.
And then my grandparents camefrom a very, what we would consider
today a cold patch town.
Okay.
So all the cultures, all themelting pots.
I know that I greeted you andI told you my joke was about the
Mrs. Haney cake.
(04:48):
And that's how we connected.
And she was part of that.
And so today my own nuclearfamily is mixed heritage, but my
extended family is.
Is that cultural melting pot.
And it's so beautiful.
And I think that if youweren't raised with that, it's hard
(05:10):
to understand how special, youknow, how special that is.
I'm.
I'm reading Dr. ClarissaPinkola Estes, who is.
She does a beautiful piece onthe Mother Mary.
I haven't, I haven't read that yet.
But what I have read is theWomen who Run with Wolves.
And now I'm reading theCreative Fire.
(05:32):
And she just was saying abouthow she was also raised in a beautiful
melting pot.
I think that I feel moresecure in the world than I fear that
my children are living in.
How do you feel about that?
That's hard.
My kid.
My family is also very blended.
(05:54):
We are a very diverse familyof very diverse backgrounds.
And so my wife and I areinterracially married and our kids
kind of sometimes strugglewith the identity issue.
And I was trying to figure outa way when they were early on, how
to describe what they were.
And I said, you're kind oflike chocolate swirl ice cream.
You're the best of both.
Yeah, I love it.
(06:16):
Yeah, but you're right.
But what makes our familyunique is that we try to approach
every new person coming to the family.
Kind of like you would likewhen we do Thanksgiving dinner.
Here's a good example.
I will do the meat for thatdinner, and then I let everybody
bring their own favorite dishto the meal.
So it's never the traditionalThanksgiving dinner.
(06:37):
It is Thanksgiving dinner,maybe with a little bit of Asian,
a little bit of Mexican.
It's whatever dish you grew upwith that you love.
So it's kind of thissmorgasbord meal of all of our cultures
coming together and we puttogether and have A family meal together.
So it's kind of a neat way ofdoing something.
Honoring all the differentcultures and honoring our past as
(07:00):
well as our traditions.
That's how we do it too.
I mean, food is such a part ofmy growing up.
You know, I can remembersaying to my grandmother, this, this
is the same grandmother.
Her name was Pleasant, but soshe was a really good cook.
And oh my gosh, Keith, whenshe passed away, they had the, you
(07:23):
know, the funeral.
And then in the hall, all ofher girlfriends that she had grown
up with.
And one of those girlfriendswas her sister in law.
Okay.
They'd been together theirwhole lives through.
And that particular lady, thisis my aunt Genevieve, my great aunt.
But she had a Native Americanfather who was mixed race, you know,
(07:47):
white, African American, allof it.
And the stories that she toldme about how he decided to choose
a wife today would be sopolitically incorrect.
But, but they were so like,how can I deny her story of that?
You know what I mean?
(08:08):
Yeah.
And then doing all the historyin the World War II, that's really
fascinating as well, becauseyou, you know, people try to separate
the Holocaust from the battle,from the battlefield, and you can't
do that.
Right.
(08:29):
And we're being pushed to thatagain 80 years later.
And you know what's sointeresting is I've had the privilege
of meeting some of the mostinteresting people.
One of the ladies I think youwould have really loved to meet,
her name was Ruth Gruber andshe was a journalist.
And she came to this women'sluncheon that I did in Washington
(08:50):
D.C. which was so fun.
They knew I liked World War II.
We had these great people, butlike Keith, like Jackie Kennedy's
secretary sat next to me,Letitia Baldrige.
I mean, like, she, you know,like the wheelchair.
And I would, you know, do gether situated.
And all the things that I'mnot, I'm not confident.
(09:11):
I know my kids are learningit, my Girl Scouts are learning it,
the Rangers, the brothers that come.
But I'm not confident thatpeople understand that we're always
in service.
Sure.
And like, that was like thebiggest honor for me to wheel her
in, sit beside her, make sureshe had what she needed.
(09:31):
And then if I got a littlestory or some little beautiful nugget,
how great was that?
And then, you know, this ladywith Gruber, she was famous because,
well, she was very humble, butshe was the one that got the only
ship of refugees out of Europe.
(09:51):
And so what had happened wasshe had interviewed Gertrude Stein,
she had written a Book on Russia.
And it was the women.
And so it was Mrs. Rooseveltand it was Secretary.
The Secretary of State Hall'swife, I think her name is Cordelia.
And they had said, listen,this is really bad optics.
(10:14):
Like you're turning theseships away back to whatever hell
instead of like finaglingsomething to be able to keep them,
you know, the Kwanzaa, etc.
And so they said, listen, thisyoung girl, she had graduated, I
think with her PhD.
(10:35):
She graduated college at like 17.
And so her joke to theaudience was that Lindbergh was on
the top of the fold and shewas on the bottom of the fold as
the youngest PhD.
But anyways, her story was sofascinating because she had gone
to Russia when no one was there.
She had written like a kind oflike a more tactical sort of a book.
(10:58):
And what had happened was theysent her to Alaska.
They said, this girl would be great.
You guys are thinking aboutannexing Alaska.
Let her meet people, do the statistics.
She did that.
And so I'm sitting like reallyface to face with her.
She's right in my line ofvision, you know, and she tells this
(11:18):
story about being in Alaska.
And the Secretary of Statecalls her, the trunk is on the airplane.
She's been there for monthsand months and months and months.
And she says, listen, you guysall go ahead, I've got to take this
call.
Which Even like in 1939, 1940,there were 50,000 employees at the
State Department.
So it was not a small thingthat she was getting this one to
(11:41):
one call right through, right.
And so she talks to him andmakes a plan to go see him and literally
hangs up the phone and hearsthe news that the plane that she
was supposed to be on thatliterally just took off has crashed
and killed everyone aboard.
Wow.
And so she said, this is inher book Haven.
(12:05):
And so she said, anything thatthis man asked of me, I was going
to do.
So fast forward, she's back inWashington and they say, you are
going to go to Europe and youare going to get these political
and religious refugees.
However, they cannot just beJews, they must be all Christians,
(12:28):
they must be Roma, them, andyou must interview them in person.
And then they meet you at theship, at the port.
And anyone that did not wasnot able to make it, whether they
had died or whatever.
Those seats were not filled, Keith.
So I think the final numberwas around 900 of the thousand that
(12:49):
she had met in person.
And she had an oss, her motherhad come down on the train and to
say, what are you going to doto protect my Jewish daughter.
And so all of these feelingsof how we employed the four freedoms,
you know, FDR's four freedoms,and how we employed our ability to
(13:13):
allow people to worship freelywere so of the moment then, and they're
so of the moment now.
And for me, I. I will not saythat I've waffled.
Rather, I have chosen to walkthe path before me, but actually,
(13:35):
what it's changed for me nowis the book, and that's the Native
American Spirit Wheel Dream Journal.
And that's more about, Ithink, the practicality of the physical
life that we're leading onearth, led by the formality of nature
(13:56):
and that expression of weplant our seeds, are we even planting
what we want to do?
I feel like so much has beenpassionless lately.
Right, of course, that's likeour creator part, you know, that's.
That's our God part.
That's saying, what are you.
What are you going to create?
Because if we don't processthose things through, they become
(14:19):
poisonous, they become toxicif we're not pursuing what it is
that we really wish to bedoing, and then watering that and
then harvesting it andapplying that to what happens in
life, our projects in life.
So I think, in a way, I've gota lot of the Joseph Campbell in me
(14:40):
where I like to see theparallels of all of these wonderful
religions and how we can takethem and honor them.
And I would say that for mepersonally, and this is something
I spoke with your fellowpodcaster Kim Sorrell about, is just
the fact that my baseline forreligion is about the beneficence,
(15:08):
the.
The beneficial humanitarian goodwill.
And if a religion crossesthat, then we've got a problem.
Right.
So let's.
I'm going to dig into yourwork a little bit more because I'm
fascinated as to how you goton this pathway that you are.
(15:31):
That you.
That you're doing historicalresearch, kind of.
How did you get on thehistorical research path?
You know what?
My parents always joked thatthey were.
That they fell in love witheach other because they both loved
history.
And we went all over thecountry, like all the Native American.
My mother's a part of the archaeology.
My dad is an environmentalist.
(15:53):
They love this.
Well, they left usRevolutionary War, Civil War.
We went to all the president's homes.
So that was part of me.
And I read the great writers.
I think that that more thananything, is something that's able
to spark imagination.
You know, I think some of thethings that we read, Keith, that
(16:17):
are a reason that we have acommon denominator in our ability
to be friends, even thoughwe've never met, like, we know each
other.
And I think that's missing in today.
I don't think that peoplerealize what's been subtracted.
The kids are not learningabout Native American education.
They don't know.
It doesn't really matter howyou say the words.
(16:38):
They have no knowledge, like,indigenous person, you know, Native
American Indian.
They don't.
They don't.
Like, it's like you'respeaking another language.
And so the things that we wereraised with, the cornucopia, the,
you know, you draw your handand you make the feather, and all
the traditional stuff we didat Thanksgiving now has been erased
(17:02):
through sort of like thepolitical correctness.
And so there's.
There's so much there that I see.
Regardless, story, narrativecomes from your parents, your grandparents.
You want to know them better.
And I had a pappy who wasspecial, Keith.
He.
They.
Every day, somebody differentwas knocking on the door.
(17:24):
He copied, signed all theloans for anyone that wanted to go
to college.
Any picture, he's on his kneefixing a toy.
You know, he had boats, and,gosh darn it, there was no way in
the world that you were goingto run or not be safe.
Like, he had rules, but hemade it fun.
Like the log.
There was the crocodile.
(17:46):
Watch out.
You must walk very slowly andvery quietly or you will get bitten
and you will never get to theriver to have whatever adventure
you're about to have.
And so he made it fun and interesting.
And so he was really badlyinjured when he was 59.
And I think that part of myjourney has been wanting to know
(18:09):
him better because the parentshad separated.
He was hitchhiking fromSouthwestern PA the whole way to
the Finger Lakes of New Yorkby himself.
And he was loving, and hedidn't have any bad habits.
They didn't have caffeine.
There was, you know what I mean?
Like, other when.
(18:29):
Other than when he was like 6or 7 years old and the stepdad had
come home every day and said,making my home brew.
Making my home brew.
And the boys broke in anddrank it all and got so horribly
sick that.
And that was it for him.
You know what I mean?
(18:50):
Right.
And so I think that because hewas sort of robbed of retirement
because of the injuries on thejob site, he was an electrician that
I. I did it just to, like, becloser to him in my.
In my heart.
You know what I mean?
Right.
So for me, I think the visualability came from, you know, I started
(19:14):
as a painter, but the visualability started with reading.
You know, like, if you're notreading like the Hound of the Baskervilles
when you're like 9 and 10years old and envisioning those dogs
and the mystery and likehiding your head into the covers
and you know, all of that stuff.
But so anyways, that's how itstarted and I think that's how it
(19:37):
should start.
And then I went to CarnegieMellon and I on the weekends and
my dad drove me and he workedin the library to finish his work
for the week.
And I had my painting and sculpture.
In fact, I just had the visionof what my senior project was.
(19:58):
And that was a slave.
It was a, it was a full figurethat I had done.
Um, and then I went to scad.
Savannah College of Art and Design.
And my mother had said, youknow, Cal, we don't think that being
a painter is all that there isfor you.
You should have like a realskill set.
(20:18):
And so then that was historicpreservation and interior design.
And when I came to WashingtonD.C. i don't think any of the people
knew what to do with me.
I was really bright, superconfident, sold big multi million
dollar jobs to very, veryfamous people.
(20:38):
And 30 years later, you know,I joke about it, but it's not really
a joke.
My claim to fame is that I'venever been sued.
And that is because inlitigious Washington, because I learned,
I knew how to talk to peopleand I met them at their own level
and they knew that I was wellmeaning and they wanted the best
thing for their family andtheir life.
(20:59):
And I was gonna use theirbudget and whatever we could get
for it.
Whether that budget was 80,000or a million, you know.
So then when I had kids latein life, I was bored.
So you can't really paint whenyou've got babies because they'll
put things in their mouth andyou know what I mean?
(21:19):
And so the dining room tablejust filled up with all this stuff
and I started writing,writing, writing and, and my husband
was like, what the heck areyou doing?
And I'm like writing and researching.
And so I realized prettyquickly I didn't know how to do the
citations and I wanted to makesure I was doing it right.
(21:41):
So I went to American Military University.
And Keith, when I tell youthat I went there, it's a remote
online school.
They have I think 80,000students a year.
It's gigantic.
When I tell you that I wentthere, I physically went there, I
took the baby in the carriage,and I went over to Charleston, West
(22:02):
Virginia, and I'm like, hi,I'm Callie.
I'm thinking about going here.
I'd like to see the library.
And they're like, this is aremote school.
Yes, I know.
Yes, I understand that.
It's Internet.
Gotcha.
But still.
And so they took me to lunch.
They let me go through the library.
This is just before COVID Hit.
(22:24):
And, you know, so I loved that school.
It was so fascinating, becauseI honestly can't think of a better
way to get your Master's.
I'm not.
I don't think that yourbachelor's should be that way.
That should be all of the experiences.
Making new friends, showing upon time, taking care of hygiene,
(22:45):
your appointments, your calendar.
But your master's is adifferent thing.
And for that, I would highlyrecommend amu, because I had the
best professors in the world,and they.
They could have been anywhere.
They could have been livinganywhere, studying themselves anywhere.
(23:06):
And all the West Pointers, youknow, it was fascinating.
So they were so loving, like,I was really doing.
I didn't.
Nobody told me untilafterwards, but I was actually studying
public history.
But still, my.
My War in Europe paper isbeing used as an example to this
(23:27):
day.
My military paper, becausethey had.
You have this, like, wonkygame that only, like, true warriors
are playing.
And what was crazy about itwas it was, like, with a keyboard,
and, like, if you hit thewrong button, you're, like, looking
at the sky or you're, like, athousand feet up, you know?
(23:48):
And so what I did with thispaper and what the professor really
liked about it, he eventuallydid my thesis.
But what he liked about itwas, like.
I was like, okay, well, arethose my.
My bombs hitting, like, in the training?
Like, which one were mine?
How can you tell?
Like, there's a guy next to me firing.
There's a guy over here firing.
(24:09):
Am I hitting a target?
I have no idea.
Right.
And so.
Right.
And so then.
And then I have vertigo.
And I also do not have a senseof direction.
And sense of direction, by theway, for everybody out there, is
genetic.
Oh, good.
So when I get lost, it's notmy fault.
I can.
I can tell it's not your fault.
That's right.
No.
And so what happened was Idecided to just pretend that this
(24:34):
was actually the training inWorld War II.
And if I ran into the forestand I was totally lost and I had
no idea what direction I was.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
You know, and you could pickYour battle, I think I was Normandy,
but, you know, like, so you'recoming out of a house.
And the.
And the teacher just loved it.
He said, cali.
He said, we think that that'swhat happened to the original band
(24:58):
of brothers, the one that DickWinters, the redheaded guy, if you
saw it, the one that hereplaced, because every time he was
so highly trained, he was soexcellent at everything.
He had the game mind of like,you know, like football coach.
Like, this is how we're goingto gather.
This is we're going to do.
This is how we're going to get him.
But the problem was he ran inthe wrong direction every single
(25:20):
time.
That would have been Keith.
I would have lasted 30seconds, right?
I would not have.
It would not have been good.
And so hopefully that's aquestion on the questionnaire these
days.
I don't know, but if you'regoing to be a soldier or a Marine,
do you have a sense of direction?
I hope my son is an army, sothat would be good to know.
(25:41):
It is good to know.
And just don't worry becausemy dad does have a sense of direction.
And it wasn't until we, like,met my mom's cousins that we realized
it.
And then later on I studiedabout it.
But still, regardless what,what, what it was that story of Pappy
and Jack Dempsey, who was areally loving guy now he had gotten
(26:06):
himself in trouble and likethe 30s where he had kind of like
bumped out of the draft orsomething like that, and he was wearing
like polished shoes in a photoand everybody said, ah.
But the.
The reality was that he waslike this really awesome guy and
he would sit for hours andtalk to people.
(26:29):
He had his restaurant in NewYork City, he would give away money,
he would sign autographs.
And so I learned that wasactually my first paper was a dual
paper on Jack Dempsey and my Pappy.
And what was so funny about itwas just because I wondered with
my grandfather coming from abroken home, how did.
(26:49):
How is he so kind?
How is he so just like a sweetheart?
And so I think that I see, Iunderstand that friendship in a different
way.
I don't even know that theykept in touch, but I know that Jack
Dempsey would have recognizedmy pap on a street and said, hey,
you know, hey, Harvey, how areyou doing?
(27:11):
So the other thing was that the.
The head General GeneralGeorge C. Marshall, George Katelyn
Marshall, was from my parentshometown, my dad's hometown, teeny
little nothing town,Uniontown, Pennsylvania.
And so for me, I wasfascinated by that.
(27:32):
And that was the second set of papers.
And I've been to his library,which happens to be on the campus
of vmi.
And so what my stories alltalk about are like, they're like
spy stories, but they're real.
So what I do is I say, okay,this is what's happened.
(27:52):
And we're going to drop ourhistorical actors into the play and
we're going to say, well, thenwhat did they do?
And so that's how I came upwith the, the concepts.
So I just found out thisweekend that the thesis the Cabinet
War Wives and is going toUniversity Press of Kansas.
So I'm really excited aboutthat at first.
(28:16):
Thank you, sweetie.
You know, like, oh, academia,I don't know how's this going to
be?
Are people going to read it?
Are they going to find it?
But you know what?
Everything changes.
And with the Cabinet WarWives, there's really important things
that people need to know.
As somebody who is in media,you will appreciate the fact that
(28:40):
Eleanor Roosevelt was thefirst person to speak to the country
after the Pearl harbor bombing.
The day before, she wassmiling, she was laughing, her picture
was on the, in the paper.
She had been at the Army Navygame, I think it was.
The woman wrote an article in265 papers across the United States,
(29:05):
five, six, seven days a week.
Then she was one of the mosthighly paid radio personalities earning
$50,000 in $1940 a week.
When you talk about all ofHollywood coming to the White House
and visiting and knowing themand all of that, well, heck, it wasn't
(29:29):
just him, it was her, too.
So she was a medium even.
And the relationships were sopivotal for having that homesy, folksy,
I'm in your living room, I'min your kitchen with you feeling.
(29:49):
And that is, I think, so muchof why America was so bound together.
That's, I think that was whythey were able to succeed and why,
you know, George C. Marshall,who really was the prototype of the
citizen soldier.
You know, if you, if you seeColin Powell or, you know, Jack Keane,
(30:12):
who's on the news a lot now,they, they, they are, they are really
saying, like it or not, we arethe purveyors of democracy, we are
the purveyors of freedom.
No one else is ever going topick up this stick and run with it
the way that we have.
So when everyone else hasabandoned it, when everyone else
(30:34):
has failed, we will still be here.
And there's, as your son willtell you, they have a dual role that
is one of the craziest Moststrange roles, and that is that they
are the humanitarians.
They are going in, they areholding the babies.
(30:56):
They are.
Their.
Their job is to be so acutelyaccurate with their killing that
they avoid any kind ofancillary injury or death.
I don't think people realizethat, that because war is a last
resort.
(31:17):
So for the most part, they arethe front facing the citizen soldier.
And that is a direct result ofWorld War II, which was such a.
A modern war with thephotography and the newspapers and,
you know, we don't think aboutit, but everybody was going to the
movies for relaxation.
And in the middle of the moviein those days, you just walked in.
(31:40):
Was movie tone news.
And so Eisenhower, again, youknow, here's this guy that was born
in a cornfield right now.
His granddaughter.
I adore her.
She.
She's.
She's so complimentary aboutmy knowledge about her family.
(32:01):
And.
But how did he get there, Keith?
Like, how did that happen thathe's able to stand on the world stage?
Okay.
How it happened was thateveryone in America at that time
had a classical education.
They read Greeks.
My parents, who were in their70s, okay, they had Latin first grade
(32:29):
through 12th grade.
Yep.
50% of our language is Latin American.
If you do that and you teachkids the root words, in that way,
they can go to 20 differentcountries and understand what they're
ordering on the menu, how toget around what the gist of anything
(32:49):
means.
But when we subtracted that.
That common language, I thinkwe did ourselves a real disservice
because at that time, everyonewas speaking a similar language and
the cultural and the art andthe food, and we were all travelers
(33:12):
of the world.
And I don't.
You know, you never hear aboutall of these World War II people
who then, in their 70s and80s, were traveling the world and
like, wrote their names on aShinto temple, you know, or damaged,
you know, some kind of, like,cultural site.
(33:32):
Because they had such respectfor life and they had such respect
for other cultures becausethey were being taught geography
and they were being taughtworld history and they were being
taught religious history andall of it just in public schools.
And I think that's what we'vereally subtracted.
So part of me is just sort oflike, I think like the.
(33:56):
The.
The bringer of the people'sheart, you know, that if the.
The humanitarian and these stories.
Stories do the same thing.
You know, in the Cabinet, Warwives, Eleanor Roosevelt, by the
end, had been the first ladyfor 12 years.
(34:18):
Wow.
While simultaneously havingthis huge media presence.
So when we dip into theserelationships, and that's what this
book does, and no one else hasdone it before, I'm proud to say.
One of the major relationshipsis Eleanor Morgenthau.
She was married by the mostfamous rabbi in the country at that
(34:38):
time, but she was not apracticing Jew.
She was not.
She had no interest in her religion.
But then world events forced everyone.
And this is something I'd likeyou to talk about, forced everyone
to pay attention because shewas labeled a Jew, whether she was
(35:00):
a practicing Jew or not, andshe was treated like a Jew.
Right.
And so when we talk about allof that, you know, our.
We.
We understand now that ourbrain stereotypes, that's part of
how we learn.
But when we go beyond that andwe apply that basis of what our spirituality
(35:26):
is, that commonality, thenwhat happens?
Right.
Exactly.
Well, in my tradition, familyspiritual tradition, that caretaker
part was given to Adam andEve, of course, by God.
It's like you are the stewardsof this.
And I think we have somehowlost that sacred responsibility to
(35:47):
be stewards.
Yes, it is.
It is inbred in us to do that.
You know, you name.
Adam named all the animals.
Adam named all the plants and the.
And the thing.
So he took the care to say,this is what this is.
And somehow we just have notremembered to honor that.
And we don't honor life oneither end, which is also tragic
(36:10):
in my.
In my world that we.
We stop looking at.
Like, you talk about thehonoring the babies that.
That next generation.
We are just here to steward that.
The resources that we havebecause we're leaving it for somebody
else.
Yeah, you wouldn't dare gointo your house that you own now
and just trash it going, well,I only have to live here, but I don't
(36:32):
have to.
I don't have to keep it upbecause at some point you'd like
to pass it down to your kidsand say, look, we took care of this.
Now you can take care of itand you can sell it.
You can live here.
But we want to pass downsomething that's valuable to you.
I think we lost that abilityto pass down.
Well, I. I wholly agree with you.
And it.
And it was lost.
I think on a lot of levels, itwas lost because we've made things
(36:55):
too easy for people.
It was lost because you can goto the grocery store and get any
kind of vegetable or fruit atany time of the year, Right?
So, like, people don'tunderstand how to grow things.
It's the seasonal.
And so we're starting to bringthat Back with, like, environmental
charter schools or, you know,where people are turning to homeschooling,
et cetera.
But I do, I do think thatthere's a lot to be hopeful of.
(37:19):
I do also think that there's alot to be leery of.
Right.
And I, you know, I went in andI taught Latin all of fourth grade
and fifth grade from my, my daughter.
And I hope I get invited backto do it for my son.
But you know what?
Like, soul.
Okay.
Solar panels.
(37:42):
Solarium.
Soul is actually where we getthe word soil, because they would
put their hand on the soil,and it would be warm, Warmth from
the sun.
So the word soil is soul.
Right.
Helios Helicopter.
Right in the, in the sky, inthe air.
(38:03):
So there's all sorts of waysand things that happen that I, I,
it frustrates me that we'renot making it easier on children,
Right.
Because they would naturallybe bilingual and then they would
roll in through their languages.
I mean, because I'm 52, andwhen I was, I was, I had a natural
(38:24):
knack for languages, so I hadgotten into GW for Romance languages.
I passed it up, but flew it inSpanish, and I taught myself French.
And so it had always beeninteresting to me thinking about
my parents who knew German andFrench in Podunk coal country, Pennsylvania.
(38:45):
Right.
And I was like, how the heck.
But they both areextraordinarily successful.
They both have that sense ofduty and the volunteerism.
And so I think that's also alot of what you see in what I'm offering.
You know, the Native Americanbook is about, like, value your time.
(39:05):
Right.
And it, it's a reminder, youknow, the next page of the one that
I was, I had showed you wasjust about, like, okay, every month
is a new moon, and then we getto the, you know, so the new moon
is where we're planting ourseeds, right.
And then it grows full moon,and then they're dying back, and
then we plant a new seed,which is talking about projects.
(39:29):
Right, Right.
It's talking about, you know,our stages of life and how to honor
that gracefully and, and toget a real understanding of what
can I bite off that I canactually chew?
Like, what, what can I do thatI'm actually going to be effectual
at?
(39:49):
And, you know, and, and havesomething that's really valid to
pass on now.
The World War II book, theWorld War II Coloring Book, and that's
under Callie Boswell.
It's an epic adventure foryoung historians.
That's.
That just went up thisweekend, too.
And again, it's not just theJeep and the Battle of Britain and
(40:13):
the ships at Pearl harbor, right?
It's this, it's this, theseimages of the bread lines, it's these
images of the dust bowl, it'sthese images of FDR in his wheelchair.
It is these images of thesekids who are getting tested to see
if they're going to be an A1.
(40:35):
And you know, they're all soscrawny because they were malnourished
through the entire Great Depression.
They weren't, there was notenough food and we didn't understand
our agricultural practices,which you and I are talking about
now, and how to shift outdifferent crops rotations to avoid
the dust bowl.
And so they weren't able to participate.
(40:59):
And the guilt and the angerthat came with that and then the
ones that do go to war, youknow, and the refugees getting on
the, on the trains.
So it really is a very wellrounded book and it, and it is bringing
to young readers likeHolocaust, what the heck is that?
You know, So I think that fortoo long we've watered it down and
(41:22):
made it more about the battlesversus the causes, right.
And human factor, which thathas to be everything.
And so for me, bringing inwomen, women on the home front, you
know, I love to read books andI'll just very quickly say one of
the ladies in the book is RuthGruber that I started this with.
(41:45):
But another is a woman namedHelena hall.
And Helena hall was fascinating.
She was in her 60s and shebecame an ARP warden.
She was not married, she hadno kids.
She was the town librarian.
She wrote, hand drew herChristmas cards.
She was tough.
And in her observations formass observation, she wrote that
(42:08):
the WI, the Women's Institute,got all of its seeds from Mrs. Roosevelt.
Now I'm going to estimate thatI've probably read over a million
pages.
I don't think that that's likea, I don't really think that's like
a far fetched thing.
When you think about the tensof thousands of papers I have, plus
the books, I have never seenthat anywhere.
Wow, I've never seen that anywhere.
(42:30):
So reading does enlighten you.
And you, you do think, howsmart is that?
Like they weren't just sendingfood, they were sending seeds.
Compact, tiny, could fit in awaxed bag in case the weather got
to it.
And then everyone in Englandcould then plant their onions, plant
their victory garden.
(42:51):
So, and super practical.
So I think that that's the magic.
The other book just to finishup, I'm sure We're running out of
time.
Is unlock your inner magic apractical guide.
And you know, our intuitiondoes, it does guide us all the time.
(43:15):
You know, don't leave yourhouse now, or don't, don't go down
the highway today or whatever.
We've all had those moments ofdeja vu.
And I really do believe that,that, that is just our inner, our
inner knowledge and we'retuned in and we're listening.
And so this is an importantbook because it's, it's validating
the ways that we get thosemessages which to me are messages
(43:37):
that, you know, perhaps as itwould be like a godwink.
Right?
Yes, Kathy would say, right,like a godwink.
So they are.
God winks when we hear thatvoice of God and we, or we see something
and we must honor it.
Right.
I think just as much as thecardinal coming to the window that
signifies to someone's heartthat the loved one is there.
(44:00):
All of these other things thatperhaps people had, have in the past
considered a cult orparanormal or woohoo in reality are
simply our, our other senses.
And those were senses thatjust have gotten lost in the noise.
And if we can go back and yetremember that we must be grounded.
(44:22):
We are human beings livingthat spiritual life, then this becomes
a really valuable tool.
But so often I think thatpeople are just.
I see it, I see it.
I don't know how it is in yourworld right now, but my, my people
are either totally doing greatand they're hanging in there or they're
not doing well at all.
(44:43):
There doesn't seem to be a lotin the middle right now.
Yeah, I agree.
People are struggling orthey're doing well.
Exactly.
They're either like puttingone foot in front of the other and
dealing with what's life'srolling at them, or they're really
not doing well and all themedications and all that stuff in
the water supply.
(45:03):
And so I think that evenpolitically we're seeing the pendulum
just sort of go all over the place.
And so really in the middle isright where we need to be.
Like EQ plus IQ plus Creativeplus spiritual.
You know, it all is.
That's, that's the moderationand the balance that we're all needing
and looking for.
And you know, my perfectclient is the high achiever.
(45:27):
Somebody who has.
Is confused, is perhaps fallenoff their path.
And you know, because my firstbusiness was the Inc 5000 business,
so I do have that beautifulway of seeing what the future holds
and understanding wherethey're being Held back.
(45:47):
And, you know, I have thehypnosis and all the rest of it,
but the dream analogy, butjust all the ways that we can walk
more purposefully each day andin the noticing in a gentle way to
sort of refocus that energyback onto our paths.
(46:07):
And it's an honor to do that.
That's awesome.
So I love to ask my guest this question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
It's been a struggle when Ianswer that, because I'm.
I'm very productive.
But I think that it's reallyall about love and humanitarian and
(46:34):
stewarding the earth andintuition for me.
We didn't speak about this,but I have lovely parents.
It's a non sequitur for me now.
It was not earlier in my life,but it was held hostage.
My father was a government official.
Our story ended well.
(46:56):
So many do not.
So for me, when I say that Isort of live with death, I think
perhaps that was the roots and.
And then just being me, themysteries and great grandmothers
who were midwives and, youknow, kind of like all of that.
So I am an intuitive.
(47:18):
I do have the gift.
I would say I'm probably oneof the best in the world.
But I don't necessarilybelieve, Keith, that we always need
to know what's coming down thepike for us.
Perhaps we need the healing ofthe trauma of the past and to learn
(47:39):
how to facilitate our owncommunication with those that we've
lost and.
And that we had unfinishedbusiness with the future.
I think we really just need tounderstand that we're.
We're ready, we're prepared,and that whether that day comes tomorrow
or in, you know, 50 years,we've got the wherewithal to deal
(48:01):
with that.
But there are peaks andvalleys to the gift.
Some of the peaks have beenthat I've predicted cancer accurately
many times or where an illnessis at in the body.
And so despite the fact thatI'm an academic about to have an
(48:24):
academic book, I have toincorporate that emotional intelligence
and intuitive being.
And that's a challenge becausespirit, right, has a bad rap, like
we say, when somebody's adrunk, that they're, you know, delving
(48:45):
into spirits or schizophrenia.
So there is always aresponsibility element with me that
any client of mine understandsand does not escape.
So for me, the way that I havefollowed those rules was to work
out of psychologists officesor psychiatrists offices or have
(49:07):
my ob gyn, you know, whomever,be the referral system so that I
knew that whoever I wasworking with was at a.
A moment of understanding.
Right.
So that challenge of legacy, Ithink is probably the biggest thing
is bringing home all of theintuitive, the emotional intelligence,
(49:33):
the humanitarian, thecompassion, the heart, and then funneling
that into practical means.
That's good.
You like that?
I do like that.
Where can people find yourbooks and connect with you on social
media?
Thank you so much.
So I'm at Caliclaire C A L L IE C L A I R E or Homefront Diary,
(49:57):
which is the World War II.
The speaking, the lectures andthen the books are all online.
And it's the Native Americanspirit wheel dream journal and it's
unlock your inner magic.
And The World War II ColoringBook, an epic adventure for young
historians is under Kaliboswell and caregivers.
(50:22):
911 will be out in the nexttwo weeks.
Wow.
Yeah.
Thank you, sweetie.
That will.
That's talking about whathappened when I was the medical power
of attorney for my mother in law.
So it is part memoir and partwhat to look out for and what you
must know and to preserve yoursanity and your life and your livelihood
(50:47):
because it can really rip afamily apart.
So that's what that one's about.
But they, they should all beunder the same author central there.
And then hopefully they'll becoming to Barnes and Noble soon because
I am on IngramSpark.
So I appreciate you.
Well, thanks so much forcoming on.
Blessings on the work you do.
And we'll be looking for thatnew book that's coming up because
(51:07):
I'm sure there'll be a lot ofhelp for people who are dealing with
that stage and that phase oftheir life or going to be dealing
with that stage and phase of life.
Yes.
Sandwich Caregiving.
Yes.
Thank you so much, Galley.
Thank you.
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