Dr. Michael Shea - Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation - Native Yoga Toddcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Todd McLaughlin (00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy
you are here. My goal with thischannel is to bring
inspirational speakers to themic in the field of yoga,
massage bodywork and beyond.
Follow us @nativeyoga, and checkus out at nativeyogacenter.com.
All right, let's beginWow, I'm really excited to have

(01:05):
Dr. Michael Shea again here inperson at Native Yoga Center for
today's episode of Native YogaToddcast, which is titled
Embodiment of the Senses ThroughYoga and Meditation. Michael,
how are you doing today?

Michael Shea (01:25):
Well, it's been a busy day because I spent the
morning at the car dealershipand looking at their giant
aquarium waiting for the tiresto be rotated and for an oil
change to happen. So an entiremorning at a car dealership gave
me a really good opportunity tomeditate on an aquarium.

Nice. Do you have any profound realizations
in the process of staring at thefish?

Unknown (01:49):
Always the profound realization is how wonderful
space is, you know, when I getcaught up and you know, not
wanting to be where I'm at, at acar dealership, because I got
better things to do, of justreleasing my attention out into
space. But in this case, it wasthe biggest aquarium I've ever
seen. Wow. And just releasing myattention to the aquarium and

(02:10):
then looking out into space aswell. That's

cool. You know, we have two really big
announcements to share today.
Number one, I'm so excited tohave your a copy of your brand
new book called the bio dynamicsof the immune system balancing
the energies of the body withthe cosmos. Whoa,

Unknown (02:37):
it's that's a lot.
Yeah, he's a big, thick steak ifyou're a meat eater, but it's
also a big soy burger if you'rea vegetarian.

And so I'm really excited to have the
chance to ask you some questionsabout your most recent
publication. Also, you and Ihave created, and today on the
launch of this podcast arelaunching our course together
called all levels yoga andmeditation course. And so you

(03:07):
know, I had a lot of fun filmingthis with you. And I'm excited
to release it today. And it'savailable on our platform native
yoga online.com. So the link forthat is in the description below
for anyone listening would liketo check it out. Michael from
from us filming that course. Anytakeaways from the experience?

(03:29):
And or what are you excited toshare with people that are
interested in taking thatcourse.

Unknown (03:35):
I think, you know, meditation in general, and yoga
is constantly evolving in ourculture. And when you study yoga
and meditation, because I'vebeen studying it now for 45
years, something like that, isjust realizing like it's so
highly nuanced. And the nextteacher says, Well, have you
tried this? And the next teacherwill? Why don't you try this to

(03:58):
refine your practice? So there'snever really an end game. That's
the one thing I learned. Butthere's a continual opening, you
know, as long as you have thatwillingness to be open to a
teacher to a new class. And as Isaid, you know, earlier when we
were just talking, before westarted, I just like to stay
with what I you know, istrending, what's current, what's

(04:22):
what's really informative, andI, I have to tell you, just a
short story, and that is I'vebeen studying all year with with
a llama from Tibetan medicalbackground. But he was in
Sikkim, and then in Bhutan inthe summer, and he was
broadcasting from there. And hewas at a very high level. It's

(04:44):
called advisory on a tantricBuddhist conference in the
capital city of Bhutan, in whichall the heavy hitter Lamas from
Tibet and that area of the worldyou know, we're coming together
for this conference, and the onething he said is that because it
was going on on our planet thesedays, the veil of secrecy of all

(05:06):
of these different meditationpractices need to be lifted, and
the secrecy needs to be takenaway because we are such in such
an important time on this planetright now with the intensity of
the polarization and duality.
So, you know, one of the thingsin my book shares is, you know,
not necessarily sharing secrets,I think it's crazy to say I'm

(05:27):
sharing secrets. But Iunderstand why some of that
knowledge, some of the mysticalknowledge, or the meditation
knowledge, or yogic knowledge,in general, is secret. It's just
because teachers want to haveyou go through a progression.
Because of your aptitude. Somestudents can't go to the end
game, they can't, you know, goright out into space, you know,

(05:49):
and stay grounded at the sametime. So, at any rate, it's
it's, it's exciting because Ifeel liberated in wanting to
share more and more in that bookis one vehicle of sharing more,
in terms of what was formerlyconsidered to be secret
knowledge. And again, that veilhas been lifted. I've never been

(06:13):
good at holding secrets anyway,even my mother knew that. So

Kyna is, is there a term in a book that you
had given me a while back ago isthat the phenomenon of basic
space is, am I getting thatletter the the, the basic space,

Unknown (06:32):
the basic space of phenomenon, a phenomenon?

Can you explain that?

Unknown (06:37):
Well, I think I had to do Buddhists had to my teacher
who was originally the DalaiLama wanted all of his students
to do Buddha scholarships. So Ispent 10 years doing very
intense Buddhist scholarship.
And now I've even lost track ofthe question,

explaining basic space and phenomenon.

Unknown (07:01):
Yeah, see, I went into basic space just now.

I'll pull you back in if you drift too far
over there. I'll thank you. I'llreally I'll reel you in.

Unknown (07:11):
Right, right. So it was because I want my answer to link
to, you know, this discussionof, of yoga and meditation. And
so as a scholar of TibetanBuddhist literature, there's
really the two highest levelpeople that you know, those are
the writers you go for, in longChampa, in the Nigma, tradition,

(07:37):
or sometimes it's known as theXhosa tradition. It's also
called it Yoga. But he'sconsidered to be like the most
incredible Lama that could givewords to the ineffability of the
infinite nature of our mind, andso forth, and all those things
that we hear about and thatwe're trying to achieve. And

(07:59):
that's one of his books. So thatwas recommended to me and I gave
you a copy. And it basicallyexplains the view of Tibetan
Buddhism, before you get tomeditation, it's helpful to
understand the view. And I thinkthat's also an important thing
to understand about Buddhistmeditation, you don't just jump
on a cushion and sit in crosslegged position, and so forth.

(08:21):
But it's an understanding thatthere's a view here, and the
view is basically that allphenomena is infinitely equal.
And we hear that as no self, youknow, that we don't have a solid
self, and so forth, and thatwe're all interconnected. And
it's described as being emptyand other better other
metaphors, you know, that areused, but he explains it the

(08:43):
best. He explains it the best ofhow you rest into the element of
space. And I'm talking about theelement of space from indo
Tibetan point of view, you know,space, wind, fire, water, earth,
and so forth. So how you restyour mind, that's the sea, this
is yoga and meditation, how doyou rest your mind and body into

(09:07):
the element of space where itall began?

So when you were talking about being at the
Toyota dealership today, andstaring at the fish tank, and
being able to let your mind gointo space, is there a way to
explain a technique that allowsone to achieve that release into

(09:34):
space?

Unknown (09:35):
Yeah, the basic technique is, well, again, you
know, it's relatively simple.
And it's one of these thingsit's been secret for a while.
It's called looking into thewisdom of the universe, or
looking into the center of theuniverse or looking into the
center of space. All these aremetaphors for the same thing,
the infinite nature of thetotality of of life, and the

(09:57):
universe. In general, so, butthe technique is actually quite
simple. And you know, you're ayogi. And as a practicing yogi,
I'm kind of a want to be yogi. Icall myself a bogey, you know,
kind of indulgent yogi. But theposture is always the first

(10:17):
thing, you know, you said,You've got to embody your
senses. And that means notlabeling what you're seeing, not
labeling what you're hearing,not labeling what you're
feeling, feeling, you come intoa posture that allows you to sit
still, and just be with yoursenses. Because you have to
notice if you're labeling a lot,oh, this is that that's that

(10:38):
this is, you know, and thatlabeling takes us into the head
and out of our body and out ofthe experience of meditation and
yoga. So then the second thingis to really just allow your
breath to be non dual. So Idon't like teaching breathwork
anymore. I've taught it formany, many years. And once you
get into inhale, and exhale,you're into duality. And in in

(11:00):
Buddhist meditation, you'retrying to undo duality you're
trying to get rid of it isn'tthe right word, but you're
trying to relax into a non dualstate that duality will always
be there, samsara and nirvanaare inseparable, let's face it.
So, but breathing, like a riveris flowing through you,

(11:22):
alleviates that. So I just usethe metaphor of just the, the
metaphor of just being aware ofsimply aware of my breath. But
I've been doing it so long thatthat kind of is automatic. And
then the the so called techniqueof looking into space, is when
you take your eye gaze, and youraise it about 10 to 15 degrees

(11:43):
above the horizon. And so rightnow, you and I were making eye
contact that horizontally, butnow I've raised my gaze as I'm
looking at the top of the doorthat's in back of you. And so
you sit in meditation, and youimmediately fix your eye gaze
there and you don't let youreyes move. That's a big, that's
a big key. And so by not lettingyour eyes move you, you have to

(12:08):
really then begin to stabilizeyour mind. But then you have to
work with your vision, the leftside of your vision, the right
side, and looking at a point inthe center of space that's in
between your actual eyeball, andthe object that's furthest away
from your vision. And you justallow that to begin shaping. And

(12:30):
you get to see how the otherelements and you get to have
these visual distortions, somepeople would call them
hallucinations, but it is atremendously stabilizing
technique. So at the cardealership, this morning, I was
looking at the top of theaquarium, and I noticed all
sorts of interesting things.

(12:51):
Because when you embody yoursenses, visually, what you get
to embody are colors withoutlabeling them, and they had a
light shining through thisaquarium. And it was very
psychedelic. All these differentcolors, rainbow colors were
being projected on the wall, andI went, Wow, I'm kind of in a
meditation chamber right here.
Yeah, in spite of the areacameras going off, removing

(13:13):
tires, and so forth. So it wasit was good that way, because
it's all about stabilizing ourmind, reducing thoughts and
reducing cognitions in the waywe solidify reality with our
thoughts and, and cognitions.

That sounds like it was really smart on
their behalf to put a beautifulfish tank like that in a setting
where you could just kick backand write like now I want to go
and check my car and over thereand Right, right. That's cool,
Michael, I'm really curiousabout Well, when I first heard
about you is about 20 years ago,and I was curious about cranial

(13:53):
sacral therapy. And I startedbecause we live here in Palm
Beach Gardens, Florida. And thecredit in the Upledger Institute
is right around the corner. AndI thought wow, what an amazing
opportunity. This you know,Institute is a few miles away.
So maybe I'll go study and thenI remember seeing your bio, and
that you are teaching cranialsacral therapy somewhere here in
the area, I guess 20 years ago,and I thought oh, that's cool.

(14:16):
He looks like a reallyinteresting guy. And then you
know, then I've had the pleasureof getting a chance to meet you
to take some trainings with youand courses and and then you and
I got introduced his wordbiodynamic, and I feel like
you've had this little evolutionfrom say, air quote, cranial

(14:37):
sacral therapy, according toUpledger to this evolution
toward biodynamic cranial sacraltherapy. Can you help me
understand your evolution fromsay 20 years ago to now where
you are today with yourperspective on the art of this

(14:58):
manual therapy?

Unknown (15:00):
Well, I think all it's the same with yoga and
meditation manual therapy as Iconsider to be a contemplative
art as well. So, you know, incontemplative arts, we want to
be able to evolve and continueto grow and evolve. And it's the
same with manual therapy. So Ithink the the evolution just
within to answer your questionspecifically within the field,

(15:26):
first of all, we have torecognize that it was the
osteopathic osteopathicpractitioners and doctors in the
United States that startedcranial work. And so cranial
sacral therapy, John, Dr. JohnUpledger, mazing human being
amazing mentor of being in hisfirst teacher training, and
getting to know him, like, Iknow I knew him. And because I

(15:49):
think he died like eight or nineyears ago. But at any rate, it's
it's a continual evolution,because he was an osteopath. And
so he was teaching what helearned within the osteopathic
community. And it turns out thatthere was actually two streams.
In the original Dr. Sutherland,the founder of the method, who

(16:09):
developed it from like, 1901,till the time he died in 1954.
It was a continual, ongoingdevelopment of getting to deeper
and deeper layers, and you're amassage therapist in and you
have quite a good practice andyou've got great hands. And I'm

(16:29):
sure you notice as well, thatthere's a, there's an evolution
in perception, you know, themore we do this work, the deeper
we can perceive it, it's thatsimple. And then what happens is
we try to seek out the palpationskills that somebody might know
that would match the perceptionI'm having, because my teachers

(16:50):
never told me about thisperception. So at any rate, the
biodynamic work is just whatSutherland discovered at the end
of his life is that there weresomething much slower moving in
the body that had a selfcorrecting potency or power to
it. And so it's been given a lotof names in my book. I'm calling
it primary respiration becausethe Osteopath I studied with Dr.

(17:14):
Jim jealous. who's the founderof biodynamic osteopathy. That's
what he called it. He called itprimary respiration, which is a
slow movement in the body. Andit's balanced with what he
called the dynamic stillness,which is slowness, and and, and
basically slowness andstillness. So you have the

(17:34):
slowness of the tide of primaryrespiration. And then you have
the stillness. And that's whereyou orient your perception
constantly. Because all otherrates and movements within the
cranial model, they're allhappening simultaneously. So any
any type of manual therapy is atraining in perception. And so

(17:54):
my training is how do you getpeople to slow down? And boy,
wouldn't yoga and meditation bea great way to slow down and of
course so so that has to be apart of what I do when I'm
training. You know, the cranialpeople that I work with is
slowing down your state of mindin working with your perception.
It at a deeper level.

What is the alternative to primary
respiration? Is there a termthat's that's like secondary
respiration? Is there analternate to primary
respiration?

Unknown (18:23):
Well, Premier respiration, the metaphors and
synonyms for it are the tide, soyou hear that from the earlier
osteopath, or the long tide. Andthere's the that's based in in
this teaching within the fielditself of the rates, there are

(18:44):
different rates that youperceive. So it originally in
the Upledger work I learnedabout the cranial rhythmic
impulse, it's a very fast rateeight to 10 cycles per minute,
very fast. And so trying to totrain your perception to that
because that takes you into acertain part of the autonomic
nervous system for healing inthe body. Franklin sills then

(19:07):
discovered a slower rate that hecalled mid tide. And then the
biodynamic osteopath as theyfound an even slower rate. They
call it primary respiration,which is six cycles per 10
minutes. And that's about a 52ndcycle, or 52nd phase is usually
a biphasic.

Interesting, thank you. Input part one of
your book, it you wrote,describe current state of ill
health and natural healingantidotes. Can you explain that
to me?

Unknown (19:46):
Wow. Be great to read parts of the book to you. But
you know, I'm prior to the COVIDthing in the last three years of
the hell realm that many peopleI've been involved in for many
different reasons. But prior tothat the volcano of ill health

(20:09):
had already erupted. It hadalready erupted 10 years ago, 15
years ago. And the volcano ofill health as a term that a
medical a cardiologist that Ilike a lot mentioned at a speech
that he gave, again, pre COVID.
But the volcano of ill health,and I mentioned that at the
beginning, and it's because thephysiology of our body has

(20:29):
become very unstable, becausethe metabolism of our body has
become very, very compromisedand unstable. So it's called
metabolic syndrome. And so thatvolcano of ill health, in my
book, in the first partdescribes the metabolism of the
human body. And it has to doprimarily with food, because

(20:54):
that's the primary instinct thatdrives human behavior is the
instinct of self preservation,you've got to get food in to
feed the mitochondria of everysingle cell in your body. That
is the prime directive, if youhave a living body, that is your
prime directive no matter whatspecies you are. And that
involves feeling when you'rehungry feeling when you need to

(21:17):
eliminate all the things thatmetabolism does, and multiply
that times, maybe 100,000,because of all the ways in which
food has to break down into tinymolecules, and all these
different processes. So the booktries to describe that in a very
simple way. Because as you and Iare manual therapists, and
that's part of what we need toknow, now we need to know that

(21:40):
it's cut Todd, it's it's painfulto even say this. But as of a
year ago, 93% of Americans havean unhealthy metabolic heart
93%. In 2018, research at theUniversity of North Carolina
said that 88% of Americans intotal were metabolically

(22:04):
unhealthy. This unbelievablethat we are that unhealthy. So
this book is trying to explainwhat does that mean, but what's
the fix? You and I are manualtherapists, so we better know
some of what it means, you know,how does the body function,
anatomically, physiologically,and now metabolically? But

(22:25):
what's the fix? You know, how dowe fix that? And in my
particular case, it's becausewhen I got out of the military
service, I was morbidly obese, Iwas metabolic. I didn't know it
at the time, I just knew that Iwas 100 pounds overweight, and I
was eating way too much sugar.
And so consequently, I've hadthis lifetime adventure with

(22:48):
metabolic syndrome. And it'sonly in the last 10 or 15 years
that it's now an identifiablesyndrome. But it's a cluster of
well over 100 differentproblems. Cancer, type two
diabetes, obesity, which is thescourge of our country and the
world right now, thatunbelievable number of people

(23:09):
that are obese, dementia is nowcalled type three diabetes.
Because the type of food thatpeople are eating, that's
creating, co creating theseproblems with dementia and so
forth. So many, many bigproblems that people are having
are, they're all metabolicproblems.

The other day, when I saw you, you would
recognize that there was somesugar and a beverage and you
just poured it out and I wasimpressed because are you at
this point now where if you knowthere's some sugar in something
that you just make an alternatechoice for something else, you
don't even waste the time justconsuming it anyway.

Unknown (23:52):
Go I don't I don't waste my time. And and the main
issue if you look at theliterature, and it's discussed
in my book, and I'm gonna weighover simplified because there's
obviously other factors but themain issues are ultra processed
food. America 70 to 80% of whatAmericans eat or ultra

(24:13):
processed, and it's, it'scardboard, it's it's it's
corporate food, it's it's madeup in a laboratory. It has
nothing to do with real food andthe other the other big one
though, is added sugar. So I'malways careful. I don't mind
sugar that's naturallyoccurring. You know me I love my
mangoes and everybody's watersugar in that. Yeah, but there's

(24:35):
sugar in that and it'scalculated with minerals and
vitamins. And it's it goes inthe way it's naturally supposed
to go in. It's like, Give me abreak. I don't. We had a house
guest yesterday just to make apoint. A lovely 92 year old
woman and we just love beingwith her. And she asked for a

(24:57):
cup of coffee and have a littlemiss Presto machine for people
that want a cup of coffee, likemyself periodically and I gave
her a cup of coffee, and wehappen to have some cream. And
then I just left it there likeshe didn't touch it. And then
five minutes later, she said, Doyou have any sugar? And my wife
and I looked at her and said,No, we don't have sugar in the
house. And she was aghast thatwe don't have sugar in the

(25:20):
house. Yeah, sugar is the bigproblem added sugar. It's a
chemical. It's a dose dependentchemical toxin, and it creates
addiction. It goes right to thesame addiction centers that
cocaine and heroin go to in thebrain. It's unbelievable. So
big, big problem. So I wouldn'teat any food with added sugar.

(25:40):
And but I also believe inmeasured indulgence. I'm not
going to deny myself a reallyfabulous piece of tiramisu
because I love tiramisu becauseI go to Italy every now and then
yes, but I'm not going to haveit every day. I'd have it once a
week. And then I let my bodytake care of the sugar and not

(26:00):
put more sugar on top of it foranother couple of days or so.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah. In part two,
the intention is describe thefluid body. What is the
importance or Okay, I'm going inas a manual therapist, or say
maybe you can think of a waythat this could even correlate
to, I'm going to go on my yogamat. What is identifying the

(26:27):
fluid body? Mean? How do I comeinto contact with that?

Unknown (26:34):
Depending on the research, you look at the Max
Planck Institute in in Germany,and they said this 10 years ago,
they actually said that 92% ofthe human body is fluid is
water, as opposed to what we seein the textbook 60 70% 92% 92%
I've recently heard estimates upto 98% water. As an

(26:57):
embryologist, I know that it'sin the study of embryology that
the embryo is about 99% water.
So human beings come in and weare a water being we're a water
creature. That's so the fluidbody is just a metaphor. For
number one, an entrance pointinto body metabolism, we've got
to have another way in otherthan the muscles. Other than the

(27:19):
bones, those are perfectly validentry points for affecting
physiology, and for bridging tometabolism. But there are direct
entry points. So if I put myhands on the body, and I
visualize the body as being afluid aquarium, or that I
visualize is the color blue,like the ocean that you and I

(27:40):
have right across the streetfrom us your data, it's that
blue, dark blue, so you canvisualize it as dark blue. And
then you also come into thatrelationship with your own body
and feel the fluid nature ofyour body. And in the way in
which sensation comes into thebody. And your fluid body
dissipates it, you can feelwaves, you can feel streaming.

(28:03):
So it's a different experienceof the body that's already
there. In we just have trainedourselves away from it way away
from this fluid nature of ourbody.

Interesting, we feel like we've been we've
geared ourselves more towardjust the skeletal element, the
dense the earth element, andwe've we've stopped observing
the water element. Can you givean example of how that might
change either level of depth oftouch and or your intended

(28:44):
technique to utilize with atreatment? If you are observing
water, with more more aroundwater than say, muscle bone?

Unknown (28:56):
Well, well, we're kind of into a teaching seminar now.
Okay. Which is fine. It's fine,because I'm not sure the
audience everybody in theaudience, you know, is a
therapist. But it doesn't makeany difference. You can meditate
on your body, you as manualtherapists, we have to be able

(29:18):
to feel our own body for See,that's the biggest mistake, I
think, you know, all of us weretrained on just what are we
perceiving with our hands that'scoming from the client's body.
That's only half the equationbecause it starts with our own
body, because of the way inwhich our nervous systems
synchronize and ourcardiovascular system
synchronize. So that's part ofthe equation biodynamically is

(29:39):
we got to feel our own body, andwe got to feel our own fluid
body. How do I sit still, buthow do I then begin noticing if
my heart is beating? That iscreating a ripple or a wave in
my body? If I'm breathing, howdo I feel the wave like motions
of breath coming in and out?
Yeah, so it's feeling wave likemotion flow. Motion a sense of
buoyancy, what feels like it'sfloating or lifting what part of

(30:03):
your body feels like it's beinglifted in floating, that's
natural buoyancy. Gravity takesthe earth element down, okay?
The fluid now we're going toswitch metaphors the, the
element of water, the waterelement from the sea, no Tibetan
tradition, it now we canassociate that with the fluid

(30:24):
body. But what that does is itlifts it creates buoyancy. So
within a yoga and meditationpractice, you want to come into
a balance of the Earth, what'staking you down, because we need
that you got to be grounded, butalso what's lifting us up to
heaven? And it turns out, thatis the fluid body that's lifting

(30:44):
us towards heaven, or whatevermetaphor you want to use for
that.

Cool. Yeah, that's cool. Great answer. Thank
you, I think a good good way toturn it from a teaching seminar
to a down to earth

Unknown (31:00):
embodied sensory experience and getting into a
sense of our body that isgrounded, you know, in a deeper
in a deeper way, a deeperreality that's pre existing,
it's already there.

Yes. You're you wrote, The third intention is
describe biodynamic, spiritualhealing.

Unknown (31:26):
Well, that came out of the last three years. As I said,
a couple of minutes ago, youknow, I do a lot of
consultations, I never stoppedworking from the beginning of
COVID. In the lockdown, itstarted with phone calls. And
then and then zooming in and allof that. And it became obvious

(31:49):
that what was happening is anintensification of duality and
intensification to polaritybecause of the, the excessive
states of rage and anger, Iexperienced multiple states of
rage in that first year, I wasso freakin mad at the government
and this and that. And but Ijust kept, you know, working my

(32:13):
meditation process and workingmy spiritual process going, Wow,
that's a lot of rage. What's allthat about? And staying with my
practice, and also staying withthe teachers that I fall, I
began to realize is like, wait aminute, I've got a choice here.
And the choice is a spiritualchoice. I can buy into the

(32:35):
intensity of the anger and ragethat's being promoted in the
media, and instill is, if any,anytime you follow any social
media, it's always there, thatthe intensity of the
polarization, and the wholebinary thing that's being
constructed in that hole, we seeduality and the whole samsaric

(32:55):
domain just being manifested allthe time. It's a great gift that
social media has given us. Buton the other hand, there's the
gift of the preciousness ofhuman life, and that we have a
spiritual practice. And so forme, it was doubling down on my
spiritual practice. And I said,Wait a minute, I'm tired of the
rage. And I got into afib. Soand so my heart didn't like the

(33:18):
rage, your heart doesn't likeanger is like, Well, wait a
minute, this is not hard,healthy, I was one of those
metabolically unhealthy hurts.
So it's like, let's just doubledown on my spiritual practice,
I'm done, turn off the TV,reduce all of it to a minimum,
stay in touch with what isnecessary for my family, and my
community. And my students andme personally, where my own

(33:39):
growth and development wasgoing. So COVID, to me has given
us the gift of spiritual, aspiritual opening, to really
double down on our spiritualpractice, whatever that is. Yoga
and meditation is the metaphoryou and I are using right now.
But, you know, for me early inmy career, underlining textbooks
was a spiritual practice. Iloved it. It was my spiritual

(34:03):
practice. So whatever yourspiritual practices,

yes, yes. Great answer. Are you is, if I have to
have a if I could have a prompt,so if I'm not, if I'm struggling
with defining my spiritualhealing, because I feel like

(34:28):
you're mentioning describebiodynamic, spiritual healing.
What what is that? Is there aprompt you could give me to help
me to be able to conceptualizemy spiritual healing is that is
that what you're encouragingpeople to do here is to do what

(34:52):
you've done to double down onfocusing on contemplative
practices and I mean, it soundsto me like you're saying that
that is a critical piece for ourhealing. I guess when when I see
the word like describebiodynamic, spiritual healing, I
guess where I'm not sure I'mclear on is what biodynamic

(35:17):
spiritual healing is there's theword biodynamic in front of it
imply, what we've already spokenof, in relation to the fluid
body and, and, and awareness ofthe water body.

Unknown (35:29):
Well, embodiment of the senses, embodiment of the
elements, you know, so whenspace fire earth water,
embodiment of the colors,without elaboration without
cognition, and without labeling,so biodynamic, you know, in this
context is referring to thatlevel of embodiment. Got it?

(35:53):
The, let me explain it this way.
So what I just described interms of my first year, you
know, yeah, 1019 or 20, wheneverthat was like the first year of
anger and rage, well, that was aprocess of what's called
spiritual formation. So there'snothing wrong with anger, we're
humans, I'm a human, you know,I'm not, yes, I had rage. And I

(36:15):
worked through it, I didn't harmother people. But I started to
harm myself because I got a fib.
So we're humans, anger isnatural, you know, but we have
to be resilient. And we have to,you know, get back to as quickly
as possible that the calm state,what would happen was, from
there from the spiritualformation, I went into a level

(36:38):
of spiritual maturity, where Iactually saw it would be more
wise, I had the insight, youknow, it would be smarter, if
you didn't even allow your mindto get into a rage state, if you
just did more of your spiritualpractice, which for me, is
Buddhist meditation, and soforth. It's, it could be

(36:59):
something different for otherpeople. So the spiritual
maturation is is a reallyimportant point. That's your
discipline that your effortyou're putting into your
practice. And, and it grows,because from there, you get
insight into Oh, this isvaluable, not just because I
took a webinar or zoom in andlearn how to meditate, but oh, I

(37:23):
can actually feel moreembodiment, I can feel a calmer
state of mind, or I didn't reactwhen my wife just did, the usual
thing that really sets me off islike, when you're spiritually
mature, you can, you're moreempathetic, you're more
empathetic to what's happeningin the world. And you see the
level of suffering, that'sgenerating the anger of rage.

(37:46):
But the third stage is calledspiritual authority. Now, a lot
of my friends don't like theword spiritual authority,
because it has a masculine edgeto it, but it means that you and
I, and everyone listening tothis has the capacity to have a

(38:07):
direct experience of the sacred,whatever that means, for you a
direct experience of the sacred,the Transubstantiation of bread
and wine into the body and bloodof Jesus Christ, the the, the
ability to have communicationfrom the Holy Spirit, the
ability to enter into nonreferential awareness and

(38:32):
communicate, as a Buddha, and soforth. So these are direct
experiences. And guess what Ibegan having that I was just
like, well, this is kind ofordinary, as long as I reduce
emotions, reduce the cognitionsand really stabilize, I can have
a more direct experience withthe sacred, you know, in that

(38:55):
level of contact, when I hadbegan having that experience
taught, it's just like, I'mdone. I don't need any of this
other stuff. I don't need to getinto the center of culture and
in buy into any of all that,yes, I understand it. Yes, it's
suffering. And also that'speople's spiritual maturation. I

(39:15):
don't see it as impure anymore.
I see it as people's, the way inwhich they're going through
their spiritual formation andinto their spiritual maturity.

Thank you. I appreciate you elaborating a
little further on that. I feellike I have that a little
clearer now. Yeah,

Unknown (39:33):
that's that's and that's pretty well elaborated in
that section of the book becauseI have a number of voices that I
wanted in the book. I wanted toChristian voice I wanted a
Buddhist voice. I wanted othervoices. Yeah,

that's smart.
I'm part four. Describe thestillness is describing the
stillness and to thesis to thestillness.

Unknown (40:02):
Of course, because it created it makes it dualistic.
But you got to have a startingpoint, you know, and this was
actually, one of the more funparts of the book, you know, it
was the first part, I had toread all this science on
metabolism and in the words are10 and 12 and 15 syllables, and
they throw other care. So here'sthe, here's the situation back

(40:25):
to the fluid body. In the book,there's a discussion of the
embryo and how you access theembryo because that's just an
another metaphor, how you accessyour originality. Because in
healing work, what we do in inmanual therapy, at least wise
from the osteopathic tradition,and the shamanic traditions that
I've been exposed to, you reallywant to have a sense that you're

(40:48):
creating a space for people toaccess were the way they were
you at the origin of their body,and that's the embryo read
conception, and that's calledoriginal wholeness. So that's
why embryology is so importantis because we were originally
whole we were a single celledhuman being in in in incredibly

(41:10):
pristine wholeness, and then,man, trillions of cells later,
and we're into a verydifferentiated wholeness, and a
very complicated homelessbecause of genetics and so
forth. And it's difficult toknit the body together when that
wholeness is fracturedmetabolically or
physiologically. However, theanthropological literature

(41:33):
because I was I had to studymedical anthropology in my
doctoral work, especially aroundshamanism, like the early
medical systems, what were theoriginal medical systems in
those original medical systemsand there's they're still out
there today, because even in inTibetan Medicine, and classical
Chinese medicine in our, yourVedic, you'll still encounter

(41:53):
it. And that is if regressingback to your embryo regressing
in the present moment, not goingback to that moment, but, but
accessing the origin forces asthey were at that moment that
are present. Now, if thatdoesn't work, what do you do?
Plan B is actually then you haveto go back to the origin of the

(42:14):
cosmos. So in this section ofthe book, I've spent the last
seven or eight years researchingthat one section, how does
healing happen? How do youcreate a healing ritual and even
with your hands, based oncosmology. So I want to
reference the meditation we didat the very beginning, when you

(42:35):
look your eyes up, and you'relooking at the center of the
universe, in terms of workingwith your vision that way,
that's what I mean, thatgenerates an orientation to
cosmology to the, to theuniverse, as it is now, and
potentially, as it was at thebeginning. And then when you get
to the beginning, then there's,you know, there's different

(42:57):
competing theories, even withinthe Tibetan Buddhist approach,
there's two or threecosmological stories of origin,
because you try to get away fromthe non dualistic, you know, the
big bang, and you try to getinto what are called spontaneous
origin. And so a spontaneousoriginality where it just boom,

(43:18):
the universe boom popped intoexistence, that has to be a
possibility within anycosmology. Wow. I could go on,
please do

do well, what what's another, the third word
is one of the other cosmology?

Unknown (43:35):
Well, I, what I do now is, and in the book, I speak to
it in especially in SectionFive. So I really try to
integrate three cosmology, sothe cosmology, the Tibetan
Buddhist cosmology, and it'sreally getting down to the five
elements in the five colors asthey were at the beginning of

(43:56):
the universe. So that's why youwant to get into wind, water,
space, fire, and so forth, isthat's the way they were at the
beginning. So if we could orientour perceptual processes, the
five elements in Oregon orperceptual process to the five
colors, as it said, in TibetanBuddhism, those five colors were

(44:16):
the very first appearance ofenlightened mind from the five
colors, then you have the fiveelements. All right. So there,
there is a staging. That way,it's all very clever, and it's
all very dualistic. Butnonetheless, it gives you
something to hang on to becauseit takes you into a non
dualistic space. In the Taoistcosmology Tao is cosmology is a

(44:42):
little bit different. And but Ilove it. It's more of a sense of
embodiment around the umbilicus.
Because in Dallas cosmology,it's the origin of the universe
happens as a result of what'scoming in through your umbilicus
and so acupuncture point It'sall around the umbilicus are
named after stars in theuniverse. Because endow is

(45:03):
cosmology, you try to create aharmony between the universe,
your body and the earth. Okay,so heaven Earth and man it's
called. So the hands ontechniques that I'm promoting,
because I always will add in aTaoist hand position in order to
create harmony. And it meansthat the fulcrum of our work

(45:27):
needs to be around the abdomenand the umbilicus. At that, at
that level of understanding,wow. So that's the second. And
I'm really oversimplifying allthis because I know some of you
listening to this are reallyknow much more about acupuncture
than I do, and Taoism ingeneral, but there is a third
cosmology. And the thirdcosmology is our cosmology, the

(45:48):
book of Genesis, and what I'vestudied, and I've been mentored,
and she, she actually died ayear ago on Christmas Eve. But
I've been mentored since the mid70s, by a capitalist, a woman
who is an expert in theKabbalah, and that's the
mystical part of the Jewishtradition, having to do with the

(46:10):
Tree of Life in the book ofGenesis, in Sutherlands
cosmology, because that's theway the cranial model started,
he talked about the breadth oflife, that's Genesis. So the
model of cranial work is alreadyimbued with a cosmology, a
Christian cosmology. And Iwanted to know that, so the

(46:31):
breath of life is associatedwith light, not the breath. And
the second thing is, if there'stwo trees, remember the tree of
good and evil, but we have thetree of life. And when you study
the tree of life, that takes youinto Jewish mysticism. And what
I wanted to share, you know,quickly, and not get to

(46:53):
elaborated on is the tree oflife as your vascular tree. So
the hands on healing that I do,is to see that the whole
vascular tree, including theheart, is the tree of life, and
that it's one hole that'sconnected to the universe. And
so the orientation in the book,then in the fifth chapter, or

(47:14):
the fifth section, is to thencreate a perceptual process in a
hands on process, that you canactually touch the universe and
the fluid body. Yeah, but boy,you can feel a pulse. And you
can feel the vascular tree,

yes. Great way of explaining or bringing more
meaning to either our yoga, ourhands on modalities, or our
meditation practice to think ofthe vascular system, as you
know, the beat of the universalvascular system. Nice,

Unknown (47:57):
amazing, it fits very well, because the research on
empathy is very clear. And Imean, the gateway that I offered
to myself first and then to mystudents, is you got to feel
your heartbeat. Because when youfeel your heartbeat without
having to take a pulse, itactually generates empathy. It

(48:18):
generates emotional empathy,research is really clear on
this. So I spend a lot of mywaking day and when I wake up in
the middle of the night, youknow, and feeling my heartbeat,
then I continue to really listento my heartbeat, feel my
heartbeat. And then what I dois, is I tell my students, I
like to recite a poem or aprayer that I've memorized. And

(48:40):
I do that non verbally in thecadence of my heartbeat, to
increase emotional empathy. Andit's really helped with with a
lot of clients, I can reallyfeel emotionally, much more
deeply what's going on.

Do you recommend just stilling the body
and trying to feel the heartbeatthrough bringing your attention
to the heart? Are yourecommending people to place
like light touch at the arterysomewhere where they can feel
the pulse through through theirown touch of their own artery?

Unknown (49:11):
Generally, in meditation practice, you'll feel
your heartbeat sooner or later.
Of course, when I'm in aclassroom, I'm teaching manual
therapy, about 25% of thestudents cannot sit there and
feel their heartbeat. And so youfeel your carotid artery or take
your pulse at your radialartery. And then I tell those
folks, look, you get up in themiddle of night, you go pee, you

(49:32):
come back, you lay down in bed,notice your heartbeat because
everything else is quiet andhopefully your mind is quiet.
And you can feel your heartbeatthen let that be the place that
the fulcrum for you build anawareness during your waking day
for your heartbeat.

And you use the personal mantra that you have
and or prayer and or affirmationat the rhythm of your pulse.
That's a great idea. So that'syour drum beat. That's the
drumbeat. And you're just gonnanow get your get some sort of
like internal mantra chant, gointo that drum beat of your
heart, right? That's great. Ihaven't heard that one yet.

Unknown (50:15):
Which is great, because I learned a really cool mantra
for Tibetan Medicine this year.
And so that's the one I've beenusing lately is that particular
mantra, and it fits, you know,all of us listening have either
memorized a poem or a prayer ora phrase or something that we
say to ourselves, but, and youcan do that. And whether it's a

(50:37):
mantra or whatever, it's perfect

right now. And I just thought I'd try to do it.
While you're explaining that. Itfelt like my heart rate slowed
down immediately. Maybe I wasjust,

Unknown (50:52):
your heart rate will automatically self adjust when
you're doing this when you havea tension on it. And the
challenge is that you we have93% of Americans that have an
unhealthy heart. And so this isactually safe, you can do it
this way. And I've had manyheart patients. And you also

(51:12):
have to be cautious. So what Iwill say to people is you
listening to your heartbeat, butif you go into tech, a cardio,
if your heartbeat increases,you've got to stop it and do
something else. Because thisisn't the right time or the
place to be putting consciousattention on your heartbeat.
Even though you're not doinganything, you're not
manipulating it with yourbreath. Just placing simple

(51:35):
attention on your heart.

Do you mean for some people that will actually
elevate the heart rate and justspeed it up because the
awareness had been brought to analmost creates this sort of
nervousness, because there's a,there's

Unknown (51:48):
a, it's because we're metabolically unhealthy and
physiologically andmetabolically that comes
together in the heart with acombination of nerves that are
very susceptible to thoughtprocesses. And those thought
processes can be verytriggering. So that's why I

(52:09):
don't do I don't teachbreathwork anymore, because too
many people were gettingtriggered in the class. And all
I was teaching was coherentbreathing, six seconds, inhale,
six seconds, exhale, and I'mlooking at 20, or 25% of people
are raising their hands saying,because that's what I say, raise
your hand. And then with yourhand raised, get up and walk out
and get out of the room andstart walking around in order to

(52:31):
lower your heart rate.

Yeah. It's powerful,

Unknown (52:36):
it is very, very powerful. And these are skills
and techniques that we can use,and we need to use. But let's
say for instance, going back tothe beginning, the okay the
heart rate meditation, that'sone meditation, but I can tell
you now the eye gaze, I haven'theard anybody complain about
that, that lifting the eyes andlooking at the center of the
universe, as long as you don'tdissociate. So that's why I said

(53:01):
at the beginning, you've got toget grounded in the gravity and
the earth element of your body.
If you just kind of sit down andwilly nilly dissociate, then
that can be really triggering aswell, you've got to stay
grounded in the earth element ofyour body, in order to see the
wisdom of the universe, which isinside of you. And it's actually
inside your heart.

Sometimes it seems like Michael, like I know
how amazing pranayama practicesbreathing practice, I really
appreciate what you justmentioned, as I pay attention to
my heartbeat and and use amantra. And, and then so I had
someone today asked me, like,you know, how come I read one

(53:46):
place that you know, someonedied from practicing pranayama?
And, you know, you get maybe youget a few situations where
people, you know, have some sortof negative reaction to these
practices, which then for mebegs the question, for too
careful about embarking onutilizing these practices, then

(54:09):
maybe we will might not even usethem at all. So is the outcome
of using the practices, even ifthere are a few situations where
it's people aren't able tohandle it, that the overall
outcome could be more positivethan if we did it? Does that
make sense?

Unknown (54:28):
Well, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Because that
that's been, you know, looked ata lot, you know, so how do we
mitigate you know, these thesereactions and the side effects
from yogic practices? What

actually feels really good and works?

Unknown (54:43):
Oh, my god, yeah. It's like, how did that happen? Well,
we know how it happened now, butBut it means that it's it's kind
of solidified in the body andthen how do you undo that? And
that gets into the field ofwhat's called trauma informed
care. Yep. And We're assumingthat in some way, you know,
there's been a trauma, we don'thave to know what it what it is.

(55:05):
But what we have to do is wehave to let people know. And I
mean, that's called a triggeralert. And if we're going to
teach an esoteric practice, youhave to say, and this is what I
do with my students. And that'swhy I always start with
heartbeat, the moment you feelyour heartbeat get up, you have
to get up and leave the room andstart walking, and just walk it

(55:30):
off until you're calm again. Soyou have to give people the okay
in the green light to take careof themselves. Yeah, and you and
I both know that a lot of peopleare going to gut it out, and
they're going to try to pushthrough it. And we've all done
that. And we've all snapped aligament or two. And so and I

(55:52):
know from you know, taking thethe yoga training hear you and
Tamra and the other teachers areconstantly saying back off back
off, don't you know, don't go tobarrier all the time, don't and
don't go beyond the barrier.
Easier said than done. Butmetabolically you have to
recognize when your heart rateis up, when you start you know
getting nauseated or you get aheadache that's, that's a

(56:14):
metabolic reaction. Or when youfeel lightheaded, those type of
thing, and you've got to get upand leave the practice and be
willing to take care ofyourself.

I think that's a really great point, Michael
building into our communitiesthat it's okay to express that,
hey, I'm having a hard time andbuilding the space for making it
easy for people to actually takecare of themselves. Because I
sometimes you almost feel like,if I get up, it's gonna distract
everybody. I'm nervous, what ifI caused a stink? What if I, you

(56:46):
know, and all that even createsmore trauma. So making it worse,
very clear, like if this isn'tworking for you, but I like that
you said actually get up andconsciously walk out, it seems
like that's a really good thing,because he'd be just sitting in
a group of our peers mightactually stimulate more anxiety
just from that we're knowingthat they might judge us or you

(57:08):
know, that type of thing. So toget up, get out walk, right,
that's a really good suggestion.

Unknown (57:12):
People don't trust their body, you know, and we're,
you know, we're trying to teachyoga and meditation. And that
implies that we're trying toteach people to trust their
body, and, and to embody theirsenses. And if your senses are
saying, Wow, my heart iselevated, that's not healthy.
And let me explore that, let meget out of here. And the way you

(57:34):
explore is you go back to theelement of space, you have to
make space, you have to get upand get out of the environment
you're in. Or if you want tostay in that environment, you
have to have the skill of makingspace and decompressing and
getting into a resilient state.
But it's all about the elementof space. And that that sense of
originality.

One thing I really appreciate about this
opportunity, Michael to sit herewith you is when when I started
this podcast, you were kindenough to come on really early
on when I was just starting andthat gave me an incredible
amount of feeling like I coulddo it, you know, I was nervous
about asking people to come onand and I really respect what

(58:18):
you do. And I so it really helpsme to feel like okay, maybe I
could do this, and you've comeback, this is your fourth time.
And but it's been a it is such apleasure to watch your
maturation process. And, and I'mjust so thankful for this
opportunity. And I feel likeyou've become you know,

(58:39):
sometimes when you have ateacher and then you you know,
you want to bow down to them,put them on a pedestal. And over
the years, you've been sogracious and keeping our
friendship, a friendship and notsomething that is elevated and
odd like that. And so I'm justreally thankful for this and
just want to express mygratitude to for everything that

(59:02):
you've shared with me over theyears. And with us listening and
your willingness to do that.
This book is amazing. I have toadmit, I just, I just wonder how
you do it. I really like I justwonder how you do it. Honestly,
I've always had the dream ofproducing some sort of written
material. And I would probablybe really happy with like a 10
page book. But this one is likethis check in like 421 It's a

(59:26):
tome. It's a big, thick book,and it just amazes me like how
do you do that? How do you doit? How do you get focused
enough to sit down and researchfor so many years? And
obviously, you're veryinterested in the subject. If
you weren't interested in thissubject you would have given up
35 years ago. But is there anyadvice you can offer any of us

(59:51):
fledgling creators who are likewanting to speak our voice
wanting to share our story? Andto be able to get to this point
where I can hold this book in myhands. I'm just curious, can you
give me any advice?

Unknown (01:00:06):
Well, a lot of it is locked in.

Todd McLaughlin (01:00:10):
So it's just luck. I just can't keep rolling
the dice every day. Just wake upand roll. And it's

Unknown (01:00:16):
at a very practical level, because, you know, this
is my seventh book that Ipublished in a very practical
level. My first two or threebooks were all written longhand,
I mean, written longhand. Andthen, like, the first one was
typed up on my wife. But nowthere's dictation software. And
what I do is, you know, if I'mlecturing, and I go, Oh, and I

(01:00:36):
write something on the board, Iuse the flip charts. When I
teach, I take photographs ofthem, I get home, and I use my
smartphone. And I either useSiri or Gmail, and I dictate an
essay. Because they end itusually picks up the dictation
software, and I was really good.
Yes. And I just send myself anemail with a new essay I in

(01:00:57):
these goofy Apple watches. Now,I can sit at the beach. And you
know, because I love meditatingdown there. And I'll have an
idea. And I can send myself anemail. And I have dictated in at
least two chapters in that bookinto my watch at the beach ice,
and then it's an email, I cutand paste it into a Word doc,

(01:01:17):
and I edit from there. But it'sthe editing process. I don't
every chapter in that book hasbeen probably 15 to 20 Go
throughs

go over and over and over, are you doing
that or someone else doing itfor you, I'm

Unknown (01:01:35):
doing it. And then I was assigned three different
editors. This is a big timepublisher and I had three
editors go through it. So

this publisher is well the

Unknown (01:01:46):
the publishers inner traditions, but the imprint is
called sacred planet books. Andit's an imprint within that
publisher from my formerpublisher.

Man, I just gotta give you some kudos
because it's just what a it'skind of feel good to follow
through and finish a projectlike this.

Unknown (01:02:10):
Yeah, there's a tedious part two gave me a Like there
was, you know, just like, youknow, because then my wife will
start complaining, okay, wedon't have time together, which
is valid and inaccurate, becauseall of a sudden, I'll say, Look,
I need three hours because thepublisher just said this
chapter. And it was like, Oh, myGod, three hours and that was

(01:02:31):
date night. So you know, sothere's, you know,

when when she's going off to the restroom, you
got your you're out to watchout. Get another sentence or two
in their exams back, you likepull the watch under the table.
Right, exactly,

Unknown (01:02:47):
exactly. I do that. I mean, if I have an idea, I'll
just put it onto the wall andsend myself a note.

All right.
Well, that's a good tidbit ofadvice. I appreciate that. Well,
what a joy, Michael, thank youso much. Great. Pleasure. Always
a great pleasure. Well, thankyou. This has really just been a
treat. So I can't wait till nexttime.

Unknown (01:03:07):
Yeah. And and we've got our meditation course coming
out. So tation

course is out.
Yeah, it's out now. Right? Yeah.
So all of these links. Rememberto check out Michael. Your
website is Michael cheteaching.com che Hart che Hart?
Sorry, that was a heart dot cheheart.com. There's going to be a
link to find the book. Would youlike them if anyone wants to
purchase it to go to where's thebest way for them to go about

Unknown (01:03:33):
what they can get it directly from inner traditions
or they can which is there sitthere sending it out? Now? It's
not going to be released throughAmazon until late January. You
can preorder on Amazon and getit in the mail. If you like Jeff
Bezos is, you know, businessmodel. All

right, fair enough. And our course is
available native yoga.
online.com. That link is here tobreak. Awesome, Michael. Well,
let's do it again.

Unknown (01:03:56):
Let's do it again. Ty.

Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself.
The theme music is dreamed up byBryce Allen. If you liked this
show, let me know if there'sroom for improvement. I want to
hear that too. We are curious toknow what you think and what you
want more of what I can improve.
And if you have ideas for futureguests or topics, please send us

(01:04:20):
your thoughts to info at Nativeyoga center. You can find us at
Native yoga center.com. And hey,if you did like this episode,
share it with your friends, rateit and review and join us next
time

All Episodes

Dr. Michael Shea - Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dr. Michael Shea - Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation