Hillary Kallenberger ~ Embracing Authenticity and Wholeness in Yoga Practice

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Hillary Kallenberger, a movement specialist and yoga teacher in Sarasota, Florida, began her journey with a passion for dance that led her from ballet to contemporary styles and eventually to New York City. Chronic pain from dancing drew her to yoga, where she now integrates her expertise in movement with a graduate degree in human relations and experience as a licensed counselor. Hillary runs a private practice combining yoga, Thai bodywork, and therapeutic counseling.

Visit Hillary here: https://www.currentmanifestationssrq.com/
On IG Here: https://www.instagram.com/hotyogamama75/

Key Takeaways:

• Transition from Dance to Yoga: Hillary's initial journey started with ballet, leading her into yoga as a means to manage and alleviate chronic body pain.
• Holistic Approach to Healing: Combining years of experience in movement and counseling, Hillary offers a unique blend of yoga, Thai bodywork, and therapeutic practices.
• Empowerment through Vulnerability: The episode underscores the power in acknowledging personal challenges and being open about healing journeys, fostering a relatable and inspiring dialogue on self-compassion and authenticity.

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Episode Transcript

(00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast,so happy you are here. My goal
with this channel is to bringinspirational speakers to the
mic in the field of yoga,massage, body work and beyond.
Follow us at @nativeyoga andcheck us out at
nativeyogacenter.com. All right,let's begin.

(01:04):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast.
My name is Todd McLaughlin, andtoday my very special guest is
Hillary Kallenberger. Follow andgo see Hillary on our website
www.currentmanifestationssrq.comand she has a cool Instagram
handle. Go follow her and checkher out at @hot yogamama75 and
thank you so much, Hillary,because I really needed to hear

(01:25):
everything you had to say today.
I appreciate your honesty. Iappreciate you sharing what's
going on for you right now inlife, I really feel like this is
important conversation to have,and I hope you, listener, are
really enjoying the show. Ifit's your first time listening,

(01:46):
welcome if you're a returnlistener, thank you so much for
supporting me. I'd love doingthis, and it really is a passion
project, and I hope you'reenjoying it too. Remember to
send us a message. Let us knowwhat you think we appreciate
feedback, and let's go ahead andstart. I'm very happy to have

(02:07):
this chance to interview andmeet and speak with Hillary
Kallenberger, actually, Hillary,I have already had the pleasure
of meeting you. You werevisiting here in Juno Beach, and
you came in for Thai massage. SoI'm and you're so fascinating
and interesting. I'm just reallyhonored that you are open to

(02:28):
joining me here on the podcasttoday. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I'm excited to behere. It was such a blessing to
meet you the way we did.
I know thank you. And you know,can you tell me where you're
located.
So I'm in Sarasota, Florida.
Nice.
And I know we just were talkinga little bit before, and we were

(02:48):
both, I don't want to saycomplaining, but it's a little
it's January, and it's cooler byFlorida standards. It's like,
what? Like, it was like 45degrees this morning, it was
like 40 something. I told mydaughter I was cold. She's back
in Oklahoma. She's like, it's 11degrees here. I was like, okay,
sorry, yeah, I don'twant to hear about it, mom. And
with that being said, are youoriginally from Oklahoma? Yes,

(03:10):
Oklahoma City is my place oforigin, so that's where my
family is nice.
And can you tell me a little bitabout your background? I know
you're a movement specialist.
What was your first love and orpassion for, either movement and
or sport?
So I was a dancer from the daythat I could probably be a

(03:31):
dancer. So from a very youngage, started out in the ballet
world and kind of transitionedas I got older and had some
changes in my body into morecontemporary dance. And then I
did that all through college,moved to New York City dance
there until, until I didn't. Sothat was kind of always I was

(03:54):
involved in some track and, youknow, some, some minor sports,
but, but dance was definitely mypassion 100%
so it wasn't, yeah, I hear you.
Well, Edgar, you are a yogateacher as well. Correct? Yes,
yeah.
So I immediately, kind of madethe transition from dancing. I
had maybe like a little year inthere where I wasn't really sure

(04:16):
what to do with my body. Andthen that's when I found my yoga
practice and became a teacheralmost as quickly as I became a
student. So nice.
What? What is your earliestmemory of hearing about yoga?
Um, you know, I had been to kindof a yoga class here and there,
but I wasn't really thatinterested at that age, and I
was suffering with some lowerback pain. My body was pretty

(04:40):
damaged. After lots of dancing,I had a lot of pain in my back
and my joints and and a goodfriend of mine said, hey, you
need to come to my friend's yogaclass with me. I think you'll
really love it. I think it'llhelp your back. And so I was
like, All right, I'll try it.
And it was like an immediately,an immediate love affair. And it
was just such a one of those.
Moments where you just know thatyou are exactly where you're

(05:03):
supposed to be in that moment,and there's just really, you
know nothing to think about. Youjust sort of keep moving forward
and following those nudges. Soyeah, that's cool. Was that in
New York City, where you tookyour first class, or I was
actually in Oklahoma, inOklahoma, gotcha, what type of
class, if you had to pinpoint itinto the realm of, like it was a
hatha yoga or Vinyasa orKundalini. Was there a specific

(05:23):
style thatyou land? I'm pretty sure it was
in a stronger class, all right,if I remember correctly, like an
official my initial, yeah, myinitial intro to yoga was, was
pretty traditional, Ashtanga,very cool. And that, that was in
Oklahoma City. It was inOklahoma City, not, not a very
like a, not a very popular stylethere at the time. I mean,

(05:46):
there's a small focus groupthat's really dedicated and
loyal, but, but, yeah, I justhappened to fall into that. So
that was a really niceintroduction, because I like the
structure and I like thealignment, and it was just a
really nice, solid foundation. Ifeel like,
did you go back to that sameperson or practice, or was that
a one time class? And then youhad to look elsewhere?

(06:07):
The studio had kind of a varietyof options. There was a stronger
there was some heated vinyasastyle, there was some more
restorative. So I kind of playedaround with a few different I
definitely liked the vinyasa. Iliked the Ashtanga. I liked the
I think having the dancebackground, I liked the the

(06:28):
sequencing was alwaysfascinating to me. It felt very
comfortable in my body to youknow, have kind of a sequence
that you followed, so to speak.
Yeah,good point. And you also have a
background as a therapist inrelation to psychology therapy,
correct?
Yeah. So when I left, I was atNYU to School of the Arts for

(06:51):
dance, and when I left there, Imoved back to Oklahoma City to
kind of sort things out, and,you know, just kind of enrolled
in some classes. And what'sfunny is I actually got sort of
an accidental French degreealong the way. So my Bachelor's
is actually in modern languages,with an emphasis in French. And
during that time, I had acalling that I knew I wanted to

(07:12):
be in a helping profession, andI wanted to help others based on
some of the personal things thatI had been through. And so
that's when I went on to pursuemy graduate degree in human
relations on a licensedcounselor track. And so that was
my first, you know, kind offormal occupation was as a
licensed professional counselorthere in the area. And I worked
in areas from drug and alcoholabuse to eating disorders to

(07:36):
guidance counseling, and movedthrough three different states
working in that field before Ikind of transitioned into, you
know, teaching yoga more fulltime, and then kind of what I'm
doing now,wonderful. How many years would
you guess at that you've beenworking as a counselor?
Let's see 92,000 I think it was,think it was 2000 when I got my

(08:02):
initial graduate degree. I thinkthat's right. And then I think I
became licensed about two yearsafter that, because there's a
lot of post graduate work theyhave to do, and supervision and
things like that. So I probablyworked in the traditional field
of counseling or mental healthfor about five years, three to
five years. But I, you know, Ireally enjoyed what I was doing,

(08:27):
but I also became somewhatfrustrated with the system. I
felt like I was doing a lot morepaperwork than I was actually
working one on one in the waythat I wanted to work with
clients, which is a lot of why Ikind of moved away from that
field in addition to the birthof my daughter, which was
initially why I left, because Iwanted to stay home with her

(08:48):
somewhat have a career that wasa little more flexible and not
understood what part isfrustrating, just the amount of
actual paperwork that you haveto fill out per client. So if
you know it's similar to some ofthe the struggles that we come
into when we look at, you know,traditional Western medicine
sometimes, and that a lot oftimes, instead of putting the

(09:09):
need of the patient or theclient first, it's, you know,
what kind of insurance do theyhave? How are you going to pay
for it? You know, you have tofill out so many treatment plans
to get approved to get theinsurance. And, you know, I
would spend two hours with aclient and spend six hours doing
the paperwork so that I couldhave more sessions with the
client. So some of that felt alittle frustrating. And then

(09:33):
over the years, with my yogapractice and my own personal
growth and transformation, I'vealso kind of just learned how,
you know, we can having aknowledge of what's going on and
having an understanding on athinking level, is really great
to be able to, you know, look atour past and understand our
patterns and see what we'redoing, but until we truly embody

(09:55):
it from a body perspective, Ifeel like we tend to get stuck.
Mm. And that's, that was mypersonal experience, and I
started to see that with othersas well, like we know what to
do, and we know what happened.
So to speak, let's say we'reprocessing a traumatic event,
and we've gone through it, we'vetalked about it, we've but have
we really moved that energythrough us so that we can

(10:17):
release it and really, you know,move on to find the joy of life
that we're here to have, youknow, so that was part of it
too, is I felt like it wasrestrictive in that way. Yeah,
interesting. I hear you. I canonly I can imagine. I that makes
me also think of when I talk tofolks I know that are
chiropractors, and they tell meabout how much time it takes to

(10:39):
build insurance that they haveto hire a full time person just
to navigate that challengeoutside of even just thinking
about treating people. So I canimagine that's really
challenging. Are you workingoutside of the realm, currently,
of insurance and all that, andable to work professionally just
through, I guess, what's theright term for saying cash,

(11:03):
cash, self pay, yeah, practiceor
whatever. Yeah, yeah. So I, youknow, when I kind of moved away
from the traditional counseling,I kind of jumped right into,
like I said, I found yoga, andthen it was like, Oh my gosh,
this is what I want to do. And Ihad some other work along the
way, but, I really knew that wasmy passion, because it was such

(11:23):
an interesting transition as adancer to move into a space that
felt so familiar, but also sonew and refreshing. It felt so
familiar to walk into a studioand to find my spot in the room
and to move my body and tofollow instructions and all of
these things, but it was such adifferent experience, from a

(11:45):
place of performance and movingmy body for external approval,
validation and critique, versusmoving in a way where I had to
really learn to do it formyself, and that was just such a
new and intriguing for meexperience, to have to be able

(12:07):
to kind of take that externalpart off and really go inside.
And that's when I kind ofstarted my my path to personal
growth and healing some of my,my things that I had going on in
my life. That'sso cool to hear. Do you feel
like when you got initial whenyou became interested in dance,
that initially it had thisexpression of freedom and joy

(12:27):
that slowly morphed intoperformance competitiveness and,
you know, striving to reach thetop sort of thing. Or was yoga a
complete fresh way ofapproaching movement practice
for you.
No, I mean, and I still havesuch a passion for the for my
dance life, or that part of mylife, and I'm actually just now

(12:51):
kind of starting to dabble myfeet back into it, because I
feel like I've sort of healedthat relationship to where I can
come back to it with new eyes.
But yeah, I mean, starting out,it was, it was fun, it was
joyous. It was, it was great toperform. We were just having a
great time. What happened iswhen I started to transition
into those more challengingyears of, you know, pre
adolescence and puberty, and youstart dealing with a changing

(13:13):
body that doesn't match what themold for originally a
traditional ballerina would be,I didn't, I didn't have that
body, and so it became, for me adaily struggle, and this
internal programming andmessaging that I was creating
that I wasn't good enough, andthis extreme pressure to try to
be something or to fit into amold that really For me to fit

(13:37):
into required a lot of toxicbehavior and disordered habits
and and things that took a tollon my my well being and my
mental health and and that kindof, and it kind of spirals, you
know, because you startprogramming yourself with those
messages, and then they getstronger and and stronger. Yeah,

(14:00):
well said, Have you struggledwith maintaining that in your
yoga practice? In relation toYoga also can become very
competitive. It can become veryperformant, performative,
performative and or performancebased if, if we have that as our

(14:20):
root, and we come into yoga allof a sudden we're like, Yeah,
well, I can show this person up.
I can go deeper than they can.
And have you struggled with thatand or what has been your
journey in relation to thatbalance? It's
interesting because I do thinkthat when I was first
practicing, it was such anatural thing that I had that
right. And the more I learnedand understood what the practice

(14:43):
was really about, I started tohave that understanding of like,
well, that's really not why I'mhere. And so it's been a
process. And I won't say thatthere are times when, you know,
the not good enough voice willpop in. I'm like, Oh, I can't do
this. Or, oh, you know this isgoing on. And I. Um, but it's
also I've become so passionateas a teacher to kind of

(15:05):
dismantle that idea. And reallymy goal as a teacher, for for my
is for my students to experiencetheir bodies just as they are,
and to find the beauty andperfection of whatever's going
on, regardless of you know ofwhat that feels like. So part of
it, the teaching of students,has felt me also teach myself

(15:29):
those same lessons. But yeah, Imean, there's definitely times
when those old voices pop up andyeah, and I have to kind of self
check,yeah, good point. Well, Said, do
you where do you teach now?
Um, so I teach at two mainStudios here in Sarasota. Get
bent yoga studio is kind of mymy main home. I actually office
out of the back of the studio,so my private practice is there,

(15:51):
and I teach the majority of theclasses there, and then I teach
and fill in a little bit atanother studio, not not too far,
called body heat yoga. Sosimilar, but different. And both
really great communities ofstudents and teachers and lots
of diversity, which is reallygreat
nice. If you had to summarizeand or pinpoint what style of

(16:13):
yoga you gravitate toward inrelation to teaching, do you
have a 410, and a specificmethod?
I would say that I teach analignment based and functional,
heart centered practice. It kindof changes from day to day. I

(16:33):
try to teach to who shows up. Ikind of like to teach to the
energy of the room. I don'treally plan much anymore. I try
to teach very intuitively, but Ido like for people to understand
their bodies, because that isone of my strengths, is having
so much body knowledge about thekinesthetics and what's

(16:53):
happening and what's going onthat. I love to talk about that
and teach that, but I also wantpeople just to experience their
bodies as well, to learn how tomove so that they can continue
to do the things they love aslong as possible. Because I
think that's really, you know,in the physical practice, kind
of why we're showing up. Verycool. And I know that you
practice Thai bodywork as well.

(17:16):
What was your entry into gettinginterested in doing hands on,
body work with people.
So when I was a little earlierin my yoga teaching career, you
know, when I would doadjustments? I really like doing
adjustments because I have thisvisual. I can see, you know,
where, where someone might notbe hearing my cue, and if I can

(17:37):
just give them a little tap or anudge, how they can create that
adjustment and have that ahamoment. And I love being there
with them when they have that weused to call my yo Mo, but when
they'd be like, Oh, Iunderstand, like, what we're
doing here.
A yo Mo, a yo Mo, like a FOMO orlike a yo Mo, like a yoga
moment, a yoga moment, there'slike, yoga FOMO out there too.

(18:01):
Like, like, Dude, you should,you should have been at the
studio at six o'clock. Youmissed it. It's over. Yeah.
Sorry,yeah. And so, and I got so much
feedback that people are like, Ilove your adjustments. Or, you
know, just a lot, like, peoplewanted more, and people come in
for privates, and can you workwith me? And can you show me?
And it just kind of naturallyled to, I have a teacher and a

(18:23):
mentor back in Oklahoma Citywho's a dear friend of mine. And
she, she's a Thai teacherpractitioner for years and
years, she's studied in Thailandand one of the best and she, she
said, Why don't you, why don'tyou think about getting trained
in Thai? And I was like, Okay,that sounds like a logical
progression. So, so I did, and Iloved it. And it just became

(18:46):
like, really, like, when I'mwhen I'm practicing Thai, I feel
like sometimes it's more for methan the client. I mean, it's,
it feels like such a symbioticrelationship, like I get so much
out of it. It's just the the theflow of it and the just, I
don't, I can't even pinpoint theword, but it to me, it's a

(19:08):
calming, very peacefulexperience that I feel like I
could do it all day. It's justlike working with my hands. And
I love that, yeah, nice. I'msure you relate to that. On on
some level Ican that's making it's reminding
me of when I had the light bulbmoment of just these different
connection pieces between justdoing a yoga practice, having

(19:29):
massage therapy, having someoneassist me in a yoga pose, and
then finding Thai massage andgoing, Wow. This just blends all
of that together. And so it'scool hearing your trajectory of
one step leading to the next.

(19:50):
You're able to you have your ownbusiness doing what you love.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow important that is for you?
And also. So I for me when Iheard somebody tell me how much
they love their job, that reallygave me the inspiration to also
seek doing something that Ireally loved. And so I just

(20:13):
would like to from aninspirational perspective for
those listening, hear yourthoughts on a Do you love your
job and, and can you just tell alittle bit about what it's like
to be self employed? Yeah,absolutely. Like, I feel so
blessed to have the job that Ihave. And I mean, every day I'm

(20:35):
so thankful. I mean, I'm justlike, What a gift to be able to,
like, wake up and look at theday and go, oh, like, what do we
get to do today? Do I get towork with and I never dread
going into work. I mean, ofcourse, there's days that we're
a little tired, or maybe itwould be nice to rest, but, but
overall, I mean, I feel like theluckiest human alive sometimes.
And I, you know, I'm a very Icall my life sort of organized

(20:59):
chaos. Like, I have a systemthat works for me in my head,
that looking from the outside,people will be like, I mean,
people tell me all the time,there you are, all over the
place, and I am, but it makessense to me, like, right? Like I
and I have this organizationalpattern where, like, well, on
this day, this is kind of likemy teaching day, and then on

(21:20):
this day, I take Thai clients,and then on this day a little,
do a little bit of both. Andthen I might take a day where
it's kind of an up in the airday, and I decide, and I like
that freedom. I don't think I'veworked a few jobs in my life
where it was set hours, and itjust doesn't, it just doesn't
vibe with me. It's I feel verystifled and stuck so having the

(21:41):
ability to create my ownschedule to work as much as I
want to work, knowing that if Ichoose to work more, there's
reward for that in a lot ofdifferent ways, and just having
a little bit of that, I guess,control over the way it looks. I
love that I have diversity in myjob, and that every client I see
I have a different relationshipwith. It's not a textbook. Come

(22:04):
in. This is what we do. Youknow, everyone has their own
experience and their own storyand and what they're dealing
with. And I have this kind oftoolbox of all these different
things that I can bring into themix. And so every client
relationship is a little bitdifferent, and we connect
differently, and the energy isdifferent. And I kind of get, I

(22:29):
choose. I'm like, Well, based onwhat's going on, these are the
ways that I feel that we couldwork best together. So it's not
just a one size fits all. And Ilike that diversity too, because
I like being able to say, youknow, I think Thai would be
great for you, or maybe weshould get into a private yoga
practice, or maybe we should sitdown and talk about nervous

(22:51):
system regulation and what'sreally going on with you, and is
there any anything that we needto work on releasing on an
emotional level? And sometimesthat incorporates movement, and
sometimes it incorporatesphysical touch, and sometimes
it's more, you know, cognitivebehavioral talk therapy, because
that's what the person needs themost. And then we kind of
integrate that all together, andit's really beautiful. That's

(23:14):
incredible. Yeah, you're beingable to pull from all these
different therapeutic models tosuit what the client needs in
the moment. That's prettyamazing. That's cool. That's
cool. I mean, if you try tothink back to I know you had,

(23:35):
like, a professional dancecareer, and then you had to make
a shift. Have you ever had amoment in your in the times that
you've made shifts where youdoubted yourself in your ability
to pull off what you're doing?
Um, I mean, yeah, being selfemployed is not for the faint of

(23:55):
heart, you know? I mean,there's, there's moments where
it's kind of like, oh my god,like nobody's calling right now,
and so like the old voices comeback, like, are you not doing
enough? Are you not good enough?
Are you? Do you need somethingthat gives you validation? And
it's funny, because there havebeen a few times in my life
where I've kind of been like,well, maybe I need to do

(24:16):
something different, or havethis person on board with me to
kind of validate that I'm good,because I always say the very
the hardest part of my job isexplaining to people what my job
is, because it is somultifaceted. I mean, I can't
just say, Oh, I'm a yogainstructor. I mean, I can
because I am. And I can't justsay I'm a Thai practitioner, or

(24:36):
I work with the nervous system.
Or, you know, I, because Ireally blend it all together.
So, like, one of the hardestthings in the job that I do now
is being able to explain it topeople in a concise way. That's
not a two hour spiel about mywhole history and how I got the
way I am. It's reallychallenging. Sometimes that's

(24:57):
funny, becausethat makes me think about, like,
you get the. Business card, andyou're just trying to condense
it down to like, a few words,like, what, what do I title
myself as? And it's a greatquestion, you know, often to try
to get really clear about whatis my title. What do I actually
do? Have you found a creativeterm that's two or three words
long that actually sums it allup. Or is that almost

(25:21):
impossible? At this point,it feels almost impossible. I
mean, sometimes I'll throwaround things like, you know,
like on my Instagram, it'smaster of movement, yeah,
because I, I feel like thatintegrates some of the more
movement specialists. Because Ireally do work with movement as
a foundation. But, you know,when I'm working with the

(25:43):
nervous system and stuff, I'malso dealing with a lot of, you
know, healing modalities indifferent ways. I mean, I have a
history of working with traumaand addiction, and so that is
what naturally, a lot of times,I attract clients that that have
that going on because, you know,we often attract things that
mirror our experience, or thingsthat we know about, or I'll

(26:06):
attract women about my agesuffering from autoimmune stuff
and and that's a whole differentkind of mix that's not really
necessary. We might integratemovement and touch, but that's a
whole kind of different,different way to approach. So,
no, I've never been able to comeup. My business card is
ridiculous, like, the frontsimple, and then the back is,

(26:28):
like, there's so many things,listen, that you can barely read
it. Sothat's so funny. I hear ya, can
you? I'm curious. Do you have myfirst thought is, I'm not a
licensed counselor, and I'm ayoga practitioner, teacher and
body worker, massage therapist,and what is some what kind of

(26:51):
guidance would you give meregarding my scope of practice,
and I refer people, if someonecomes in and they're needing
counseling, I refer them tosomebody who is a pro in that
department. For those of us thatare listening, that are yoga

(27:11):
teachers and or practitioners,but and are encountering either
clients or maybe even just ourfriends or family. What sort of
advice can you give in relationto helping pave the way for
someone to getting professionalhelp?
Well, I think you nailed it in,you know, referring out, having

(27:34):
a handful of people that youtrust, that maybe different
people would be a different fitfor and just and being able to
refer. I think the sticky placethat we get into is giving
advice because we want to help.
We're helping professionals ingeneral, right? We're helping
people heal in so many differentways and so many different
levels. As a yoga instructor,and I think it can be

(27:55):
challenging to not want to stepin and go, Okay, you need to do
this or acting in thatcounseling role. But I also
think that there's a hugeopportunity as a yoga
instructor, based on, you know,the way most of us work, to hold
space for people, and to be ableto be that open space, whether
you're, you know, working withthem in a private or in a tie

(28:18):
session, or just a student afterclass, and just be able to sit
with them and maybe share yourexperience. A lot of times, I'll
say, Well, you know, I don'tknow, but this is, this was my
experience with that, andsometimes that's enough glimmer
for someone to seek somethingelse or or to be able to just
say, you know, I hear thatyou're struggling with this, and

(28:41):
I think it's valid andimportant, and I want to hold
space for you, but I think thisis a person that you would
really work well with, you know,that could help you further. And
I think just kind of not sayingthis is out of my scope, but
just finding a creative, safespace to hold for others, where
you can give them what theyneed, but also refer out when

(29:02):
it's you know, something thatneeds to be maybe more clinical
in nature. Goodanswer. Do do you experience
either pain or discomfort inyour body?
Yeah, well, that's a funquestion that you're asking me
today. So actually, I saw youbecause I came in with a lot of

(29:25):
hip pain, and I've been havingthis, I've been dealing with
this sort of, I'll call it, hipissue, for probably 25 years.
And about 25 years ago, Iremember an orthopedic said, you
know, you you're probablylooking at some new knees and
new hips by the time you're 30.
Just kind of be aware of that,because of what you've done to

(29:47):
your body as a dancer and allthis damage. I was like, well,
that's not going to happen tome. So I became a yoga
instructor, and I got super fit,and I did all the right things
and built all the right muscles,and up until this point, you
know. Them. I have all I haveall my original parts. But I've
been having an issue with my hipfor the last probably four
years, on and off, and then thelast six to 12 months, pretty

(30:11):
consistently, to where I'mhaving to tend to it on a very
regular basis, once, twice aweek, getting body work, which
is how I sought you out in thefirst place, because I was over
in West Palm Beach, and I waslike, nobody's touched me in
like two weeks, and I'm dying inmy hip, and that's how I found
you. But anyway, so that beingsaid, I started to experience

(30:33):
it's been progressively worse,even since we originally met,
and I found out last Friday thatI'm actually going to be having
a hip replacement.
I hear you, Wow, big news,right? And
so I'm actually waiting todayfor them to call and schedule me
for surgery. So there's a lotthat comes up with that, yeah,

(30:54):
for me as a teacher, as awellness practitioner, and as
someone who I consider part ofmy job to help people avoid
having surgery? Yes, if theycan.
Oh, this is such a good, goodtopic. I know. I know you know.
Well, first of all the fact thatyou had a consultation and so

(31:18):
quickly have decided yes, I'mgoing to have hip replacement
after, like, you said, hey,look, I heard this one that I
was in my 20s. I said, by thetime you're 30, you're getting
new parts. You said, no wayyou've been able to extend that
for I'm just, I don't, you don'thave to tell me how old you are.
But like, until now and thenhowever many years, like, you've

(31:38):
held off with this intention of,like, no, not me. Nope, not me.
So now for you to all of asudden go, Okay, I am getting a
hip replacement. Obviously,whatever they found, it is so
obvious that that's what youwant to do. Can you talk a
little bit more about that andhow that transpired in your in
your like, sort of like momentof going, Yeah, I'm doing this.

(31:59):
Yeah.
So, you know, to us a balletdancer, we tend to be
hypermobile. We tend to have alot of external rotation. And
back in those days, I think it'sbetter now, but in those times,
we weren't really taught abouthow to strengthen our joints or
protect ourselves. So So I didit. So there's all that wear and
tear, and then I became amarathon runner, so there was a
lot of that wear and tear. Andthen in yoga, there can be a lot

(32:19):
of hypermobility too, if we'renot understanding how to engage
and strengthen, which is why I'mso passionate about alignment
and strength based yoga and andwhy we're doing what we're
doing. So that's helped me skirtthe issue. And then I think over
time, you know, having adaughter who I held on one hip

(32:41):
standing a certain way, whichnow I can look back and go,
okay, it just started to slowlydeteriorate the joint, and I
knew that it was clicky andpinching and some things like
that. But basically what happensis the progression has gotten so
much and I had that mindset of,no, not me. No, not me, up until
probably about a month ago, whenI started to just have an
intuitive nudge that like I'mlosing my range of motion. I'm

(33:05):
unable to practice in the waythat I like to practice. I'm
unable to move in the way that Ienjoy moving. And it's starting
to affect my quality of life.
When I finally went in and kindof self surrender to having an
MRI, because I wanted to seewhat was going on in there. And
this is also a testament to justsort of my healing. This is also
a big message for me as well,because I've always kind of been

(33:28):
in this sort of toxic masculinelike, I can do it. I don't need
help. I'll power through it,push through pain, because
that's what I was taught to do.
And that's something that I'vebeen really working with over
the past, you know, 10 years,especially so when I went in for
the MRI, it turns out that notonly is the joint completely
deteriorated, with a completeloss of cartilage, a ripped up

(33:51):
labrum, I have a fractured femurhead and bone spurs filling the
joint so and I've been like,trying to jog. Oh,
man, I know you were telling methat you were still running when
I saw you, and I thought, oh,that's gotta be so painful.
So now, like, so it's kind ofthis like moment where I was

(34:13):
like, holy,no wonder I know. Isn't that
such an enlightening moment whenyou see the MRI, because I have
a similar, different, butsimilar situation where back
pain, back pain, MRI, and, youknow, going Well, no wonder. And
looking back on the past andrealizing, well, yeah, of course

(34:38):
it's gonna look like this if Ilook back and take account of
all the things I've done to mybody ever since I was a
teenager, or even be beforethat. So I think, yeah, you
know, well, congratulations,because I can hear in your voice
that you feel good about it. Itseems to me like you know what

(34:58):
you need to do. And there's justno question. There's just really
no question. Interestingmoment and such an emotional
kind of few days, you know, ofgetting this information and
making this decision and justhaving this knowing, and part of
it was this relief of, I have anexplanation for the pain now,
yeah, and I have a solutionthat's very clear, to get me out

(35:21):
of the pain. And that felt likea weight off my shoulders,
because I've tried everything,and it felt like a battle, you
know? And it's like I could justsurrender to the battle, yeah.
And then on top of it, it wasthis deep awareness, like you
said about coming to terms withwhat I've done to my body and
that I haven't created a safespace always, house to live in,

(35:47):
so to speak, and this awarenessof just the brutality that I
treated myself with for so manyyears of do Better push through
pain, and that's really not,that's not what I teach, that's
not what I believe, but it'swhat I've I've done, and it was
just this stark, like, in yourface, like, here we are, like,

(36:10):
here's the here's theconsequence. So, you know, a lot
of mixed emotions, and then theunderstand that I don't want to
do that anymore. I don't have tocarry around chronic pain. I
don't have to push throughanything. I'm allowed to honor
my limitations. I'm allowed, asa yoga teacher, to say I'm human
too. As someone who teachespeople or helps people avoid

(36:32):
surgery, to be able to say,well, sometimes it's necessary.
Here we go like, you know, andjust kind of demystify that kind
of stigma that goes with beingin our profession, that our body
should be perfect and pliableand movable for the rest of our
lives just because we're a yogateacher.
Oh, thank you, Hillary. Thankyou so much for just being

(36:54):
honest and just talking about itjust so easily. I really
appreciate it. It's so it's Iremember, this is like, maybe 10
year how, however, many yearsago, somebody said to me, wait,
but you have pain, but you're ayoga teacher. And it almost like
it hurt, because it was like,Oh, wow, I I must. There must be

(37:15):
something wrong with me that Ihaven't been able to figure out
how to be a yoga teacher and nothave pain. And so there's like
that. And then the other day,someone came out and they said,
oh my. They were talking about apain sensation in their body.
And they said, Oh yeah, well,my, I know this one yoga teacher
that they went and became a yogateacher so that they that they

(37:35):
wouldn't have pain anymore. AndI kind of thought they were
joking when they said it,because I was kind of like, it
just doesn't work that way. It'sjust not that simple. But they
were serious, and I went, Wow,look at how this myth kind of
holds in our culture abouteither fear of acknowledgement
that we can feel pain and thatand that it's not I feel like

(38:00):
there's like a myth and oraround not acknowledging hurt
and pain, yeah, likewe need to power through it, or
there's another way. Or we'renot, we're not doing enough.
That's for me. It's a message oflike, well, you're just not
doing enough, you're not workinghard enough, you're not you're
not doing the right things,you're not smart enough, you
don't know enough, like, youknow, all those kind of tapes

(38:21):
replay, and then I had to juststop and go, Well, I've done
everything that I've doneeverything with the knowledge I
have that I can possibly do, andnow is the time to receive help
and relief. And you know, I havea dear friend of mine back in
Oklahoma City, who went throughsomething similar, I think, last

(38:42):
year, had a hip replacement. Andwe've talked about this kind of
this kind of inherent shame thatcomes with being a yoga
instructor or fitnessprofessional, even, of not being
super strong, super perfect, andnever experiencing injury or
pain, and it just isn't thatsimple. And, you know, because
we're all human, and we all haveour stuff, and we have a whole

(39:06):
life of history of what ourbodies have done, sometimes
we're born in ways that createpain, you know? I mean, there's
just a lot, a lot going on withthat. So it's important to me,
I'm glad that we actually hadthis conversation, because this
is something that also I feelvery inspired to talk about,
yeah, because I do think it'simportant to put that out there
and to kind of take that stigmaoff of, off of what you know,

(39:31):
we've obviously bothexperienced, what I've heard
from everyone over the past weekthat I've told Aside from like
my family, when I say, Well,yeah, I'm waiting to get
scheduled for a hip replacement.
It's seriously not you, youwhat? No way. Like, it's just

(39:53):
this whole thing, which, likeyou said, it almost feels like,
Well, why not me?
Like I. Yeah, I know. Oh my god,it's so amazing. I hear you. I'm
not happy to hear I mean, I amhappy to hear everything you're
saying. I'm actually happy tohear all this. Thank you so
much. I think about itconstantly. This is on my mind

(40:15):
all the time, and then I'mreally curious. Hillary, have
you? Have you been able to piecetogether any insight into why
have you been feeling that youhave to just push through all

(40:38):
your life? Has that come as theoutcome of a traumatic event as
a child, because the more Iinvestigate my childhood, the
more I have memory of of my owntraumatic past. I can really
piece together why I've treatedmyself the way I have for so

(41:00):
long. And I'm just curious ifany of that has come up for you
yet, or at all. Yeah, yeah,definitely. I mean, you know, I
had, I mean, I I've beenprogrammed from so many
directions to, I guess, not, notbe good enough, and this
perfectionistic part of me,because I like people to be

(41:22):
happy and I like to pleasepeople that I developed that,
you know, co dependent peoplepleasing attitude from the time
I was a child from, from, youknow, some of my upbringing, not
all of it. I had a, I had alovely childhood in many
respects. But, um, you know, Ihad a very challenging
relationship with my mother. Um,that kind of subtly always made

(41:45):
me feel anyway, that that Iwasn't enough with a lack of
kind of emotional attachment andthings that I needed, I didn't
have comfort, I didn't have andI had a lot of that, like, you
know, suck it up. Move on, pullyour bootstraps off and get
going. And then in, in theballet and dance world, I mean,
it's just mimicked. It's like,do it again. No, that wasn't do

(42:08):
it do it again. Get back outhere and do it again. I remember
one time I was bleeding throughmy point shoes and I was in, I
went into the bathroom. It waslike crying because it was
hurting so bad. And I rememberthe teacher came in, and she
kind of just smirked at me, andshe was like, you might not be
cut out for this. And so therewas this message of, like, it

(42:29):
doesn't matter how bad it hurts,you better get out there and
look pretty and put on a niceshow for everyone. So this is,
like the messaging that Iinternalized very young, that I
carried into my life. And then,when I was in my early teens, I
had three very traumaticexperiences, kind of all at

(42:51):
once, and a lot of it was justremoving a sense, the sense of
safety I had in my life, andanything that felt safe. And one
was that I lost my grandmother,who was like my person. I was
sexually assaulted and and thenI because I was in the dance
world and my body wasn't enough,I had a massive breast reduction

(43:13):
so that I could continue todance and be approved of. So
yeah, that's kind of my trilogyof trauma, and I've just kind of
carried that with me through mylife.
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear you wentthrough all that, and I
appreciate you being honestabout it. Oh my gosh, yeah,
whoa.

(43:35):
Unprogrammed, you know, with asingle mom for a long time, and
so it was kind of like I justjumped into that toxic masculine
of like, I can do it. I don'tneed anyone's help. Yeah, I
don't want to be vulnerable. Iwant to be strong. I don't want
to be hurt again, so I'm justgoing to do it myself. And I
became very hyper, independentand perfectionistic, and at some
point, you know, it's got to getand my my pain became, became

(43:59):
more prominent than my sense ofsafety that I was trying to
create, right? So I had to say,enough is enough. I need help.
How are you answering the peoplethat are shocked and surprised
that yes, you Hillary needs toget some assistance. What is

(44:23):
your Have youhaven't really had, like, most
of those people have been, youknow, like, via, like, a quick
email or text or something. So Ihaven't really had a lot of
dialog. Honestly, most of thepeople that I've had dialog with
in person are people that I havea lot of support and love from,
who still might be shocked andsurprised. But then once we kind
of, you know, I mean, all I haveto do is go, Well, you know, I

(44:44):
mean, I've been kind of puttingthis off for about 2025, years,
and then they go, oh. And then Ihad someone the other day who
said, So, wait a minute, you'vebeen running. You've just. Been
powering through that with yourruns. And I was like, Yep, and
I'm acknowledging that, youknow, I was clearly not

(45:05):
connected to my own body. Sothis is also a beautiful lesson
for just how, even when we knowhow to teach people to connect
to their bodies, that we wesometimes just go into old
programming and just connect andjust like sometimes we need help
with the hip. Sometimes we needhelp with reconnecting to
ourselves. It's a never endingjourney. That's yoga, right?

(45:26):
Oh my gosh, yes, correct. It's anevermind.
We never, we never just get goodat yoga like, never, like I have
conquered myDo you think? Do you find a
little humorous that, like ifyou and I were to now bring in,
say, a 90 year old into theconversation, and they'd
probably be listening to usgoing, well, aren't you guys

(45:46):
funny? Because I've had threehip replacements, two back
fusions, four shoulder surgeriesand a and CAD rack surgery, you
know? And here you guys aremaking a big deal about needing
to have a hip replacement? Yeah,you're gonna need a hair. I
mean, just about everybody who'sbeen active is gonna have some
type of wear and tear, don't doyou think there's a little bit

(46:10):
of that too, that we're, yeah,for sure? I mean, I think you
know, we only know what we knowwhere we're at.
I will say that I'm definitelythis has helped me just the lack
of movement and mobility, notthe surgery itself, but has
really helped me also develop anappreciation, um, for some of my
students whose bodies don't moveas fluidly, yeah, and you know,

(46:34):
because there's this part ofwhen you're when you're
comfortable in your yogapractice and you're around
others who are Then everyone cankind of do all the shapes, so to
speak. And then you get someone,you're like, Well, I don't
understand why you can't bendforward and touch your toes. I
know exactly why someone can'tbend forward and touch my toes,
because I cannot bend forwardand touch my toes right now,
yeah. Like, I literally amstuck. And I'm like, oh, and

(46:57):
what an appreciation for mystudents who are dealing with
mobility constraints, and what agift to enhance my teaching, to
be able to teach in a morecompassionate way when I see
that, and maybe offer somemodifications that I wouldn't
have thought of had I notexperienced it myself. Oh

(47:17):
yeah, amen to all that. I agree.
Yeah, yeah. I feel because, Imean,
there's just some stuff like, Imean, you can't do it. So I've
been, I've been practicing everyday, um, still, and I've gone in
with a very modified practiceand a lot of humility and just
kind of having fun, creating myown sequence that is different,

(47:41):
usually, from what's beingtaught, but it's it's modified.
It's sort of getting to the sameend result, but in a way that I
can do it and not create painwhen I do so. So I feel like, in
so many ways, this is enhancingmy life and my work and just my
humanness, you know, to reallybe in this space and deal with

(48:01):
it.
I agree Hillary, and I can'thelp and you know, if this makes
I don't think this will make youangry, but you know you can, if
you think I'm crazy saying this,tell me how exciting to know
that you know what you know inrelation to all of your years of

(48:22):
of physical ability, therapy andtraining, to now have the
opportunity to have this surgeryand then rehab. You know what I
mean? Like, how cool is thatyou're gonna get to use all the
stuff that you know and havelearned and just like, really
watch the rehab process and seehow good you can be at it, or

(48:46):
how I think that could be reallyfascinating and interesting.
Like I saw someone did a, oh, Iwas talking to somebody who
needs to have a, potentiallyhave a spinal fusion surgery. So
there's somebody on YouTube whosaid, Look, this is me before
the spinal fusion surgery. Theydocumented what it was like.
Then they documented the wholeprocess of them having the

(49:08):
surgery, what it was like,recovering, what kind of stuff
they could do, and did it overlike, a year, or however, long
span. And I just thought that'sso cool to just like, be honest
and open and just show people,and then someone else can
actually look and go, Wow, thisis what I might have ahead of
me, and what a great teachingand learning opportunity. I
think that everything that youhave in your toolbox is going to

(49:30):
just be so fascinating to watch,how how you navigate everything.
Yeah, and you know that's reallybeen part of my personal healing
journey, is the commitment tobeing open and vulnerable about
my experience and my story andspeaking to people about what
what has happened, because thatkeeps me honest, and this just

(49:55):
feels like a deeper layer ofthat. First of all, how blessed
Am I to know what i. And havethese tools available to me
where I or I know how to healmyself, and I can call in a
practitioner and say, I know I'mgoing to need this, and I want
to line you up for this. Andthese are the things that I want
support with, and have this,like, kind of, you know, plan
loosely going into it, of youknow, of what that experience is

(50:17):
going to be like, but todocument it along the way and to
show people and to talk aboutit, and to make it just seem
more like, not a big deal, like,sometimes we gotta do stuff that
isn't what we picked, but lookhow we can grow and look, I
mean, I'm excited to be able tohave my range of motion back.

(50:38):
Like, there's a part of methat's like, oh my gosh, this is
going to be amazing. I'll beable to do this again, you know,
beout of pain, potential, have way
more range of motion, becausethey do such a good job these
days with hip replacements.
Yeah, yeah, that's so exciting.
I hear you. I'm so happy foryou. That's really cool. Yeah,
yeah, amazing. Do do you feellike you're Oh, sorry. I lost my

(51:00):
train of thought. Let me comeback to Oh, boy. I don't know
where I was gonna go, rightthere,
but yeah, but I am, I mean, I amexcited in the sense, like, do I
want someone to, like, you know,cut my leg open and,

(51:23):
well, yeah, that's great. Imean, you know, there's, and I
also have to acknowledge there'sa trauma in this that involves
energetic clearing, you know,all kinds of different things
that that is not going to beeasy. There's going to be
challenges. There's going to bedays that are probably hard. A
lot of old stuff is probablygoing to come up for me, yeah.
But what a gift to be presentedwith, the opportunity to heal at

(51:46):
a deeper level. And I feel, insome ways, this physical thing
is is taking me to, you know, Itold someone yesterday, I said,
you know, like, when you sweepthe floor and you think it's
clean, but then you look downand there's, like, some stuff
stuck in the corner, I feel likethis is maybe the stuff in the
corner that I'm like, Oh, what agift to see it so that I can
pull it out and even live lifemore fully and have more wisdom

(52:10):
and and more peace. And, youknow, there's just so much, so
many gifts that come with ourchallenges.
You know, I regained what Iwanted to say Hillary. Great,
great point. And I remember Ihad I suffered an accident where
I took a handlebar to theeyeball and it cracked my
orbital bone, and my eyeballsunk back. And so I just turned

(52:33):
40. I was thinking I wasSuperman, and I went from
feeling 40 to 80. I couldn'tdrive at night. I looked weird.
I had one of those baby dolleyes, like, not, I couldn't I
saw two faces in the mirror whenI was shaving. And I finally got
the courage up to, like, I'mgoing in for this eye surgery
where they had to, like, do anorbital repair. And I after,

(52:57):
afterward, when I healed, whichwas a crazy, hard process, and
it worked, and I and I had my Ididn't, I don't have double
vision anymore. I wanted to. Itraveled to India before, and
there's this, you know, you youget down and touch your
teacher's feet as a sign ofrespect. I wanted to touch my
doctor's feet. I was so thankfulfor how he had put all of his

(53:21):
life study into learning how tohelp and was able to help me.
And I just had such anincredible, profound
appreciation for the medicalcommunity. Whereas I know it's
hard right now because we'rereally, like divisive on a lot
of things, and there's a lot ofdivision between, should I go
natural, or should I go Should Itake a holistic approach, or

(53:44):
should I go to the medicalroute? And personally, I'm so
grateful for both, and I thinkboth weave together so
wonderfully. So I guess what Iwanted to say is that we're
lucky that we have access tothis like there's a there's a
chance we could be somewherewhere we don't even have the
opportunity to have somebodyhelp us like this. So I mean, I

(54:07):
guess I just feel like, I know,in our field, it's almost like
people are wanting to be able towalk away from all of the
science and technology andmedical knowledge that we've
gained of however many hundredsor 1000s of years and just say,
like, I don't need that anymore.
I'm so sick of all that I got towalk away from and I just don't
think it's healthy to think likethat, personally for me anymore.

(54:30):
What do you think? I thinkthere's a place for everything.
And like, he's, like, you saidit very beautifully, like, it
weaves together nicely when,when you're making the right
choices, right? I mean, there'sa place for everything. I mean,
it doesn't matter if you'relooking at holistic or
traditional medicine, there'sgoing to be holes on both sides
of that, right? And then there'salso going to be strength and

(54:50):
and there are times when, no, wedon't need to rush in and take
pharmaceuticals and have asurgery just because. But then
there are also times. So that'sextremely important for, you
know, structural issues andthings. And these are people who
have trained, and they are alsoin the helping profession. And I
will say this, my father's aphysician, so I know this

(55:10):
firsthand. Being in the medicalprofession right now is not an
easy place to be. I mean, it'schallenging for physicians right
now. It's gotten, it's gotten,it's gotten hard. So, you know,
I think we have to respect allof the tools available to us and
and I have to say that I'm oneof those that I would like. No,
no, no, I don't. I don't wantthat. Yeah. And so this has also

(55:31):
been an opportunity for me tokind of welcome that in and go,
You know what this is? This isactually a blessing that I have
this option.
Amazing Hillary. That's so cool.
Oh my gosh. Time went by sofast. I love it when that
happens. Where I look at theclock, an hour went by, which is
a good sign. Is there we touchedupon, kind of where we aimed to

(55:55):
go. What did I miss out on?
What? What more, where, whatelse would you like to add to
help us kind of put the finalicing on the cake here,
um, I would say just kind ofsumming up some of some of the
things, all of the things, maybethat we talked about. Just, um,

(56:16):
how important I think it is toembrace our authentic experience
and in our humanness, right? Imean, we all have different
things. We all have. We havestuff that we're carrying from
the past. We all have challengesin the present. We have all
these tools available to us. AndI think coming back to this idea
that we are, we are really allexactly where we need to be, in

(56:40):
a sense, and that we are alreadyfull. There's nothing missing,
there's nothing broken. I mean,maybe a femur bone, but there's
nothing inherently like flawedin us. And I think that it's so
easy as humans to drop into thatI'm not good enough, because

(57:01):
there's so much pressure,especially with social media and
all these things, to be acertain way, to look, a certain
way, to practice yoga, a certainway, to heal, a certain way, you
know, all these different thingsand and really, I think if we
can all come back to like ourenoughness and find, you know,
confidence in that, andcompassion for ourselves. I

(57:21):
think that's really such a hugekey to, you know, really
collective healing. It's like itstarts with us doing it for
ourselves.
Excellent. Well said Hillary,I'm so grateful that I got to
meet you in person first. I'mvery grateful for your honesty,
and I feel like this is theperfect for me, personally,

(57:43):
perfect conversation for meright now, just to have another
person to communicate with thatI feel like I can relate to, and
I just really am grateful forthis. So I thank you so much.
Thank you. Thisis a great conversation. Have
fun. Thankyou, Hillary, well, I can't wait
for all the listeners to get achance to hear you and meet you,

(58:03):
and I hope that we'll have achance to see each other again
in person. And I also would loveto invite you back after your
opera, your procedure, and justhear how you're doing. And I
think this can inspire us tokind of go down the route that
we're talking about here, oflike, let's be real and just do
this, and they'd love to havethat conversation. All right,

(58:27):
awesome. Hillary, well, thankyou so much, and I wish you the
best. You too. Thank you.
Thanks.
Native yoga. Todd cast isproduced by myself. The theme
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(58:49):
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(59:12):
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