August 5, 2025 • 36 mins
We can all agree: New Hampshire has issues, but...do Maine and Vermont also have issues? What is it like to be the CEO of a Planned Parenthood affiliate across three (somewhat) different states?
Liz talks to Nicole Clegg, CEO of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England, about the "defunding" of Planned Parenthood, what the words "budget reconciliation" mean, and some signs it might be time to start thinking about perimenopause. They also welcome men in to the conversation - hello, men!
New episodes every Tuesday.
Become a supporter of the show.
Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email Liz: newhampshirehasissues@gmail.com
Links:
- Donate directly to Planned Parenthood of Northern New England
- Menopause and Perimenopause Services Available at Planned Parenthood of Northern New England (The Montpelier Bridge)
- Head of Planned Parenthood Northern New England testifies against Medicaid cuts (WGME)
- Vermont Conversation: Planned Parenthood’s Nicole Clegg on reproductive rights without clinics (Vermont Digger)
- Planned Parenthood in Maine seeking more state funding to offset budget cuts (Portland Press Herald)
- Planned Parenthood wins partial victory in legal fight with Trump administration over funding cuts (AP)
- Most Americans support legal access to abortions in most cases: Survey (The Hill)
- The new strategy to restrict abortion nationwide — without saying ‘ban’ (The 19th)
- Advocates Decry Senate Confirmation of 'Anti-Abortion Extremist' to Lifetime Federal Court Seat (Common Dreams)
- America’s Healthcare Crisis Is Coming for All Women (Ms.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicole Clegg (00:00):
Reality is that Trump in his first term was
incredibly successful in puttinga lot of extremists on the
courts to the point where one infive federal judges is a Trump
appointee.
Liz Canada (00:13):
Woof.
Yeah.
That percentage is too high.
That is way too
Very.
And, you know, I mean,especially because you have
people who have been put on forlifetime appointments that are
not in any way competent orskilled as judges.
You want to name some names, Nicole?
Let's hear them.
Let's hear those judge names.
Nicole Clegg (00:31):
Amarillo, Texas seems to have one.
Liz Canada (00:45):
You are listening to New Hampshire Has Issues, and I
am your host from the future,Liz Canada.
I recorded this episode withNicole back in June, because
when the CEO of PlannedParenthood of Northern New
England comes to your office,you definitely try to record
with her right away.
We talk about things from theJune context, and that means
that a lot has changed sincethen.
The one that I really want toflag for you right now is that
(01:06):
the federal budgetreconciliation, boring words,
but we'll talk about it in theepisode.
We talked about that in a waythat was like, it could happen.
Well, it has happened.
And so when you hear her talkabout what the impact of that
would be, we are in that now,friends.
So thank you for listening.
I am going to put in the shownotes a link that if you live in
(01:29):
Northern New England, Maine,New Hampshire, or Vermont, you
can donate directly to PlannedParenthood of Northern New
England towards the health carethat the health centers deliver
day to day.
High quality, excellent healthcare that we'll talk about as
well.
If you would like to supportthe show, that link is there as
well.
Thank you for those who alreadydo.
And new episodes every Tuesday.
(01:50):
We've got some great episodescoming up.
So like, subscribe, share theseepisodes with your friends,
leave a rating would be great.
And again, thank you forlistening.
I will pass it back over to theJune version of me.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues, the podcast that dares
to ask, does New Hampshire havemore issues than Maine and
(02:11):
Vermont?
What do you think, Nicole?
Nicole Clegg (02:13):
Yeah, I'm going to do a Star Wars reference.
Liz Canada (02:15):
Oh, go for it.
Let's hear it.
Yes.
Nicole Clegg (02:16):
And say, can New Hampshire stay on target?
Liz Canada (02:20):
I remember what happened to that guy that says
stay on target.
Nicole Clegg (02:22):
He lives.
He does.
Liz Canada (02:24):
Stay on target guy?
Nicole Clegg (02:25):
Yeah, yeah, he does.
Liz Canada (02:27):
Oh, he does.
Nicole Clegg (02:29):
Yeah.
Stay on target.
Liz Canada (02:30):
Yes.
Right.
So are you the stay on targetguy?
And I'm the one who gets howdoes this?
Nicole Clegg (02:36):
Well, no, I think that no, because they don't all
die.
But stay on target is aboutlike it's the long view.
You can't get distracted.
You got to stay on target.
Liz Canada (02:46):
Yeah.
It's so hard, though, Nicole.
It's so hard.
Nicole Clegg (02:50):
I know, but you can do it.
Liz Canada (02:51):
We have had some wins in New Hampshire this year.
It's been...
Nicole Clegg (02:54):
I mean, like, I keep joking because I wish I had
recorded both of you the dayafter the election so I could
play it back to you today.
Liz Canada (03:01):
Footage not found, thankfully.
So I am your host, Liz Canada,and joining me today to talk
about...
abortion rights, reproductiverights, and the landscape across
Maine, New Hampshire, andVermont is the CEO of Planned
Parenthood of Northern NewEngland.
And in other words, my biggestof big bosses, Nicole Clegg.
(03:26):
So big.
So big.
So big.
You're the ultimate, you're thebig boss.
Nicole, thank you for beinghere.
Nicole Clegg (03:33):
Thank you for having me.
Liz Canada (03:33):
Thanks for chatting with me.
I had heard you were coming toConcord, New Hampshire.
I was like, can I...
grab her for a few minutes totalk about all the things in our
state.
So thank you for taking thetime.
I know you are so busy.
Nicole Clegg (03:48):
I love making time for you.
Anytime.
Liz Canada (03:51):
CEO.
I get to talk to the CEO today.
It is incredible.
I don't know how familiar youare with the podcast that is new
to the scene.
New Hampshire has issues that Ihave created, but every episode
I bring on a guest to talkabout an issue in New Hampshire.
But you are a celebrity.
Nicole Clegg (04:09):
Oh.
Liz Canada (04:10):
Yes.
Because you are a CEO ofPlanned Parenthood of Northern
New England, three states, whichI think also have issues
overall.
Nicole Clegg (04:20):
Yeah.
Liz Canada (04:20):
So I'm hoping we can just talk today about...
I don't know, the disaster thatis our federal government and
what might be happening in ourthree states.
Are you okay with that?
Nicole Clegg (04:30):
I'm happy to.
Liz Canada (04:31):
Would you classify it as a disaster or are there
other words you might use?
As a CEO, are there otherthings you might say?
I say disaster because...
Nicole Clegg (04:42):
Yeah, okay.
I mean, like, I think that wediffer a little bit because some
of us might be half emptypeople and some of us are half
full.
You know, so I think it's amixed bag.
I mean, like, I would saydespite all of the hard things
that are coming to us, wecontinue to provide exceptional
care to people who walk throughour doors every day.
And that's the win.
Liz Canada (05:04):
So...
There are health centers inMaine, New Hampshire, Vermont.
I know this because I workhere.
So I do know some things.
Thank you.
Spoiler alert, listeners.
But our three states are verydifferent in our laws.
And, you know, this wholepodcast is about New Hampshire.
But Maine and Vermont aredifferent from one another as
(05:25):
well.
I think people assume about NewEngland in general that
everything is super duper great.
What are some of the...
I guess, issues, butdifferences across the three
states when you think of yourrole as the CEO of this
organization.
How do you deal with thedifferences?
What are the differences thatare out there?
Talk to me about those things.
Nicole Clegg (05:48):
Happily.
Well, first, I like to describethe northern New England as we
have...
Maine and Vermont are the twosides of the toothpaste tube and
New Hampshire is the middle.
And we're just going to squeezeall that toothpaste out of it.
Liz Canada (06:02):
I definitely feel squeezed.
So that's very accurate.
Great.
Yes.
Yes, definitely.
Nicole Clegg (06:09):
I mean, it's interesting, right, like that we
have sort of very homogenousstates, you know, and in some
ways the issues that we arefacing in all three are really
similar.
You know, how do you deliverhealth care in a really rural
part of the country?
How do you deal with an aginghousing stock?
You know, how do we make surethat there is employment
(06:30):
opportunity for young people andattract them to our states?
Like, it is interesting that,like, the three states are
grappling with kind of the sameproblems.
And, you know, I would sayMaine is a bit of a mix.
(06:53):
And then New Hampshire'schallenged in that space where
the views are more complicatedwhen it comes to what can
government do and how cangovernment answer in this
moment.
So there's that.
And then on top of that, youhave like across the board, a
deep commitment to individualrights and decision making.
(07:15):
Like, I don't think that youwould hear kind of a different
perspective from a Mainer orGranite Stater or a Vermonter.
Like they all care a lot aboutlike, hey, I don't need you in
my business.
I don't want you makingdecisions about like when I'm
going to start a family or whoI'm going to, you know, be in
love with.
Like that's my place.
That's in my home.
(07:36):
I mean, so like those are thegreat things.
And those are the things thatmake it easy to, you know, I
don't have to change how I talkabout the issues depending on
the state that I'm in because weall sort of hold these values
in the same way.
Liz Canada (07:49):
Privacy.
I love my house.
I love my community.
I love my state.
There's a lot of state pride inall three of those states.
What about around abortionlaws?
The first episode of thispodcast, I had Kayla on and we
talked about abortion rights.
Nicole Clegg (08:05):
And I listened to it.
Liz Canada (08:05):
Oh, thank you.
Love a listener.
But we talked about how we-
Nicole Clegg (08:08):
Is it like long-time caller first, or
long-time listener, first-timecaller?
Liz Canada (08:12):
Yes.
Long-time CEO, first-timeguest, medium listener.
We'll workshop that.
But Kayla was on and we talkedabout how folks might be
surprised to find out we don'thave the right to abortion in
New Hampshire and that that'ssomething that we are, of
course, advocating for and soforth.
But what is it like in Maineand Vermont comparatively?
Nicole Clegg (08:32):
Well, let's start with Vermont, which, you know,
yeah, passed a constitutionalamendment and codified
reproductive liberty in theirstate constitution.
Yeah.
So, you know, they really havedone some amazing work.
I mean, had to pass by twothirds of the voters.
And it did.
Liz Canada (08:47):
And it did.
Nicole Clegg (08:48):
And it passed in every single precinct.
Every single one.
Yeah.
And that's incredible andremarkable.
Liz Canada (08:55):
And that was after Roe v.
Wade was overturned or before?
Nicole Clegg (08:58):
Well, so the process for the constitutional
amendment in Vermont takes aboutfour years.
Liz Canada (09:06):
Oh, my God.
Y eah.
Nicole Clegg (09:06):
So the process had actually started, you know,
when Brett Kavanaugh was likenot on the scene and there
wasn't this sort of likeimmediate threat or worry about
losing protections of Roe.
It was sort of like, we'reVermont.
We want to take, you know, likewe're going to keep And lo and
(09:26):
behold, it was incrediblynecessary.
Liz Canada (09:35):
There's something about the language had to be the
same throughout the entireprocess.
That's a lot of work to getover the finish line.
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean, it's really incredible.
Nicole Clegg (09:45):
This speaks to we always have to have the long
view.
Like, I know that there's adesire to kind of like look at
this election by election.
But when you're talking about afight for autonomy or basic
human rights, you don't get tothink about it in those short
terms.
You really do have to kind oflike have a long vision.
And so I credit the folks inVermont for doing that.
(10:07):
And I mean, it proved reallyvaluable.
In Maine, we have somethingcalled the Reproductive Privacy
Act, which was codified into lawin the 90s.
And so that essentially putinto law the tenets of the Roe
versus Wade decision, which isthat everybody has the right to
end a pregnancy.
At the time, it had sort of acaveat around viability.
(10:30):
That has since been addressedin the law to allow for, you
know, abortions later inpregnancy, which are necessary.
And certainly, I think sincewe've lost Roe, people are
understanding more and more whythose are so necessary.
Liz Canada (10:43):
Absolutely.
Nicole Clegg (10:44):
I mean, what's interesting, too, the driver in
the 90s for the statelegislature in Maine to pass it
was there was the same concernthat the Supreme Court was going
to overturn Roe, that theydidn't know kind of how Sandra
Day O'Connor and, you know, likehow these people were going to
land.
And they felt like they neededto have these protections in
place.
(11:04):
Lo and behold, It didn't happenthen.
But, you know, several decadeslater, here we are in a
situation where it's reallyvaluable to have that codified
into state law.
So those are important pieces.
There's another, you know,distinction.
I mean, like there's a bunch ofother distinctions in the laws,
especially when you comparethem to New Hampshire.
You know, I think that thething that I sort of always lean
(11:25):
into and want people tounderstand is that people who
are covered by Medicaid inVermont and Maine have abortion
coverage, but they don't havethat in New Hampshire.
Liz Canada (11:35):
Right.
Nicole Clegg (11:56):
In addition to having the law in New Hampshire
so that you could point to someprotections, that doesn't get us
fully there, right?
We still need to be taking careof everybody to make sure that
the right isn't just a right onthe law books, but it's actually
like people can access it.
Liz Canada (12:11):
Right.
It's more than just saying wesort of give you permission,
you're allowed to do this, butactually making it accessible
for everybody.
Nicole Clegg (12:19):
Right.
Liz Canada (12:19):
Maine and Vermont, they're doing pretty well
overall.
But there's also differences.
When my friends from Colorado,I lived in Colorado for 10
years, they know of NewHampshire as being like in New
England, totally fine,everything must be going well.
And even people in state seemaybe our federal delegation,
which is extremely supportive ofabortion rights.
Nicole Clegg (12:41):
Better than Maine.
Liz Canada (12:42):
Better than Maine.
Right.
So like, how is it to workacross these states where you
have, you know, in NewHampshire, our state lawmakers
are, I will let you just fill inthe blank however you would
like in terms of where we are.
But our federal delegation isreally supportive and actively
supportive, proactively gettingout there and sponsoring
(13:03):
positive legislation forreproductive rights.
What is it like to work acrossstates where that's not
necessarily the case, especiallyin this Trump administration?
What should we be lookingtoward in our federal
delegations in all three states?
Nicole Clegg (13:15):
Well, I mean, this is where the battle line has
been drawn, right?
I don't want to diminish thefights that you have in Concord,
the statehouse, are plenty andthey're I mean, they're
already...
taking action.
(13:44):
We saw this through a federalfamily planning program called
Title X, which we had our fundswithheld for New Hampshire.
And those are dollars that helpcover the cost of free care,
because a lot of people don'tknow that we provide care to
anybody who walks through thedoor, regardless of their
ability to pay.
Liz Canada (14:02):
No matter what.
Nicole Clegg (14:04):
Correct.
Liz Canada (14:04):
Somebody shows up at Planned Parenthood, they're
going to get the health carethat they need, even if they
cannot pay.
Nicole Clegg (14:09):
Exactly.
And we rely on these funds tohelp us do that.
They don't cover the entirecost, let's be clear, but it's
an important contributor.
So we've had those fundswithheld under really bogus
claims.
We have lived up to everyexpectation of our grants.
We actually got inspected rightbefore the election and had
(14:30):
glowing reviews.
The department was like, thisis incredible what you're doing.
So they've done that.
We now have a budgetreconciliation bill, which is
this sort of special vehiclethat Congress
has where they can pass something just with a simple majority. In the Senate, this is really the only time that you can pass something with a simple majority. Every other thing requires 60 votes.
Liz Canada (14:43):
I think this is, I'm going to say this as
respectfully as possible.
For regular people who don'tthink about this all the time,
which is almost everyone.
Nicole Clegg (15:03):
Yep.
Liz Canada (15:04):
Folks might assume that the Senate is like whoever
has more senators getseverything they want.
That's not the case for themost part.
It's usually, as you just said,60 votes are necessary out of
100.
So this, and the words are sowonky, but budget
reconciliation, that's differentwhere it is a simple majority.
(15:25):
And so what is...
Tell me more about that,because I think that's helpful
for folks to maybe understand.
Yeah.
Nicole Clegg (15:43):
This one exception is budget reconciliation.
And because we know there arenot 60 votes in the Senate to
pass a restriction onreproductive rights and freedoms
or to target PlannedParenthood.
They couldn't ever pass that inthe Senate.
So the only option they have isbudget reconciliation.
And so the bill that has passedthe House and is now being
(16:06):
worked on in the Senate includeslanguage that targets Planned
Parenthood and says we can nolonger participate in the
Medicaid program, which isoutrageous.
Who bothers to target aparticular health care provider
and say that you can't
Liz Canada (16:24):
Right.
(16:54):
do this. This is a priority of Congress right now. And they aretargeting Planned Parenthood
and kicking us out of theMedicaid program is going to
cost the government $300million.
Yeah.
Just a deep sigh about that impact.
And all of it comes down to afew lawmakers, enough lawmakers
who hate abortion.
(17:14):
Like, is that what it really isat the end of the day?
Is that they're trying to...
Nicole Clegg (17:17):
Yes.
Liz Canada (17:18):
It feels like they're just trying to ban
abortion knowing they can't passa bill that would ban abortion.
(17:53):
We are, across the country, Planned Parenthood affiliates provide abortion care. And we are a critical part of that health care network. If we all stopped providing abortion care, this defund wouldn't impact us. It is specific to the fact that we provide abortion. So in case there is any question about the motives and what they might be claiming, it's all about, let's go after the largest nationalhealth care provider and try
and shut them down becausethat'll be our best way of
removing access to abortion in astate like New Hampshire.
And potentially in a state like Vermont.
We talked about this in thatepisode with Kayla, where you
have these constitutionalamendments and protections, but
the federal lawmakers who areanti-abortion are trying other
(18:16):
strategies to affect thosestates regardless.
Nicole Clegg (18:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're not done.
I mean, this whole line about,we're just giving it back to the
states is just a complete liebecause they've taken care of
that.
They have restricted abortionacross half of the country.
That is not what this is about.
This is about going into stateswhere it's legal and making it
impossible to access there.
(18:39):
And that should make peoplereally mad.
Liz Canada (18:41):
It makes me pretty mad.
Yes, I think it makes a lot ofpeople mad because abortion is
health care.
It is not actuallycontroversial.
Every time I hear someone saythat abortion is controversial,
I'm like, call a timeout.
I'm like, actually, it's not.
Planned Parenthood is wildlypopular.
Folks want health care and theydon't want the government to
take it away.
And this is a strategy thatthese folks are using in D.C.
(19:06):
to impact states where folksprobably assume they're safe and
won't be impacted by theirstate lawmakers.
Nicole Clegg (19:12):
Yeah.
Liz Canada (19:13):
Boy, oh boy.
Roe v.
Wade was overturned by the U.S.
Supreme Court, but the courtdecisions and fights in the
courts aren't done. Like, whydoes this keep happening,
Nicole?
Like, why are there...
Aren't they done?
Shouldn't they be over nowbecause they accomplished what
they wanted to?
What are we seeing happening inthe courts across the country,
(19:33):
you know, generally speaking?
And...
Are our Junes ever going to notinvolve worrying about the
Supreme Court?
Nicole Clegg (20:06):
Right.
(20:36):
So what's the Hamilton song? You'll never be satisfied?
First of all, I love a musical theater reference. It's my favorite thing in the world.
But did you want to associate it with anti-abortion extremists?
Liz Canada (20:36):
No, I did not.
They'll never be satisfied until abortion is 100% illegal and unavailable in our country. They are going to pursue every pathway, that includes the courts. The reality is they can't pass an abortion ban in Congress, they're going to do it through the Court. And it doesn't necessarily look head on, it's going to be some sneaky way, like let's call into question the medications that are involved in the medication abortion, even though they're incredibly safe and have been used for decades around the world. They are now going to use junk science and make up things to try and claim that people shouldn't have access. That's an active court case right now, where there's a direct threat on medication abortion, which is the majority choice for people. They won't stop. And so we won't stop.
Right? We're going to see it in Congress, we're going to see it at the legislature, we're going to see it at the courts.
I mean, part of it is a deathby a thousand paper cuts, right?
(21:07):
It's to just exhaust us,deplete us in, you know, any way
possible.
But, you know, we are aresilient group.
Like, you know, they, you know,come at us one way, we move to
the other.
And I mean, they certainly havehad some wins, but we're still
here.
We're still providing care.
Yeah, the Supreme Court isn't changing anytime
(21:30):
soon.
And so the battles willcontinue.
There have been folks who'veasked, like, do we have do we
have wins?
Where are our wins at thefederal level or in the courts?
Like, does that does thathappen?
Or are our wins different thanthat?
Nicole Clegg (21:50):
Well, I mean, you know, certainly.
You've had wins in NewHampshire.
Liz Canada (21:53):
We've had some wins.
Nicole Clegg (21:54):
And we have wins in the courts.
I mean, sometimes it'ssurprising when it's like a
Trump-appointed justice that islike, this is so outside of the
realm of normal law.
We're not going to accept this.
We'll see the challenges tomifepristone, which is one of
the pills that's a part of amedication abortion.
(22:15):
We can win there in the courts. Now the challenge is, we win in the courts, but we have RFK who wants to sort of dismantle the FDA and put on people who aren't scientists who might be willing to rewrite the FDA drug rules for mifepristone. So you know it's a bit of a whack a mole, like we might knock it down here and then we're gonna have to go fight it over there. I mean, we'll see what the Supreme Court does this session. There are some cases before them thathave to do with access to
(22:47):
reproductive rights and PlannedParenthood in particular.
You know, so we'll I mean,we'll see where they land.
I mean, we do have wins andlike, you know, we we're winning
in popular opinion, likeoverwhelmingly.
And, you know, I think thatwe've had wins during different
elections.
But, you know, people the waypeople vote is complicated.
(23:08):
And, you know, if we have astraight up question about
abortion, it's going to win.
But when it's about acandidate, it's not as simple as
like, well, they're pro-choiceor they're anti-choice. I mean the thing we do know is that when Trump was running this time, his staff sat down with a memo in October and said, if we don't modify your position on abortion, you're going to lose.
And that's when all of a suddenhe started to, you know, tweet
(23:37):
or truth social or whatever itis about how he would veto an
abortion ban.
And, you know, Elon Musk all ofa sudden started spending
millions of dollars online inads targeted at young people to
confuse them about his positionon abortion.
So they know it's a losingissue.
I mean, do I wish that likethey knew it enough?
(23:59):
So we'll have to probably teachhim this lesson again, you
know, next November.
But there are wins.
And, you know, and I say this alot to staff, especially the
staff in the health centers who,you know, they're like so
frustrated.
They're like, what do we do?
What do we do?
And like, how do we show ourdefiance?
And and, you know, I'm likeyour acts every day of providing
the high quality, nonjudgmentalcare that you do is an act of
(24:23):
defiance.
Liz Canada (24:23):
That's absolutely right.
They are providing life savingcare, excellent health care,
reliable care where a patientcan go in and know I am getting
the best health care I possiblycan.
And that matters more than meshowing up at the state house in
my little suit and tie.
Nicole Clegg (24:38):
Well, don't undersell yourself.
Liz Canada (24:40):
Yes, but it's also like that is why we do the work
that we do is because we have...
Nicole Clegg (24:45):
Yeah,
Liz Canada (24:46):
we're fighting for the health centers and for the
providers at the health centersand the patients.
Nicole, you always do a reallygreat job for the staff to offer
us glimmers of hope andoptimism and sort of forward
looking direction.
If I'm listening to thispodcast and I'm feeling really
(25:06):
bummed out because like theTrump administration and this
budget, all these things arehappening.
What is the hope you see outthere for our three states, or
dare I say, the country, ifpossible.
Nicole Clegg (25:18):
This will pass.
It will pass.
It's going to require us all tostand up.
And take action and, you know,speak out for what we care
about.
But, you know, actually justcommunicated this to staff
because, you know, next week isthe federal holiday of
Juneteenth, right?
And you think about the, youknow, this incredible journey
(25:41):
for one, eliminating slavery,but then also civil rights.
You have to take the long view.
You cannot just think aboutlike this moment in time.
You have to sort of look atlike, how am I going to get to,
you know, the that arc ofjustice.
And, you know, we like goodstories, right?
You're a storyteller.
Liz Canada (25:59):
I love a story.
Nicole Clegg (26:01):
We want a narrative.
And so we always try to put thenarrative together.
So it's like this one big thinghappened, like Luke destroyed
the Death Star.
And that's what got us through,you know.
Liz Canada (26:11):
I love a Star Wars reference.
This is very exciting.
Okay.
Nicole Clegg (26:15):
But that's not what the real story is, right?
It's thousands of littleactions.
It's the protests that we allparticipate in.
It's the calls that we make.
It's the conversations that we're having.
That's what really tips thescales.
(26:54):
And so I understand, it's easy, if you just want to scroll, to get lost. Weknow that this is what happens.
Crazy thing is there were a lotof people who voted for Trump
who love Planned Parenthood.
Liz Canada (27:02):
That's so mind boggling.
For me, someone who works atPlanned Parenthood, like it is
really mind boggling because itseems so like a disconnect.
It feels like a disconnect.
Nicole Clegg (27:13):
And so it's our job to connect the dots.
You know, it's helped them tosee that your vote here, you
know, and maybe you were mad.
Maybe you wanted change.
Maybe, you know, it's a symptomof distrust.
That wasn't the path.
If you love what we do and youwant to protect what we do, it's
a different path to get there.
And I do fundamentally believethat that's what's going to get
(27:35):
us through, I mean, four years.
Four years is a blip in ourhistory.
And I know I don't want to saythat in a way that's cavalier to
the people who are reallygetting hurt right now because
there are lots of people livingin fear and like afraid to leave
their homes.
And that is a travesty.
But I do think we will organizeourselves, and you're seeing
(27:56):
that, right?
Like you're seeing moreprotests and more action.
That's what it's going to take.
And it's going to take a lot ofit for us to get to the other
side.
But we will get there.
Liz Canada (28:06):
I'm going to believe you, Nicole, because I am, you
said earlier, half empty, halffull.
Nicole Clegg (28:16):
You don't have a choice.
I have to believe you on this one. What is the one thing you would have someone do right now, because there are rallies and protests, ifthey care about abortion
rights?
Talk about it and talk about it online.
Talk about it with theirfriends.
Make this a normal part of theconversation.
I mean, you know, even thoughlike we are talking so much more
(28:38):
about abortion than we everhave in history, it's still
shrouded in a lot of like shameand stigma.
And, you know, people can beafraid to like, do I bring this
up?
Liz Canada (28:46):
Right.
Nicole Clegg (28:46):
Am I allowed to talk about this?
Liz Canada (28:48):
Say the word abortion.
It is OK.
Nicole (28:50):
The more you talk about it and treat it as health care
and talk about like these arenormal human decisions that
people make in theirlives, the better off we are.
And I'm going to put anasterisk next to it, though, and
just say that men have beenleft out of this conversation.
And rightly or wrongly, like, Ithink that, you know, in some
ways, you know, the movement forabortion rights came out of the
women's movement came out, youknow, like it brought women
(29:12):
together and sort of made themactivists and feminists.
It did, you know, and there waspower and like incredible
progress as a result of that.
It didn't create I mean, likewe haven't successfully created
space for men to come into thisconversation with us.
And we do need to do that.
They need to see how thisconnects to their lives in the
(29:32):
same way.
And so I would say, talk aboutit and then talk about it with
your brother.
Talk about it with yourcolleague or neighbor.
Let's not be afraid of bringingup this conversation and
saying, hey, this really mattersto me.
And I don't know if you'vethought about it, but can we
have a conversation?
Liz Canada (29:48):
Welcome, men.
We are here.
Come on over.
We're delighted to have youhere.
I know we talk about andabortion with our two sons our
two kiddos and I think they theyhave actually started talking
to me about they don't say theword stigma but they they say
like well Liz you work atPlanned Parenthood I can't tell
people where you work and I'mlike oh you already see that in
(30:11):
middle school like they'realready sort of feeling that
sort of you know abortion issomething we don't we can't
really talk about and we have todismantle that perspective.
We have to address that headon.
We can't we can't shy away fromit or else it just the cycle
continues.
So welcome to the show, men.
We're here to invite you in tothe conversation.
Nicole Clegg (30:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, well, as I'm also aparent of a son and I mean, one,
I think most of the time herolls his eyes because he's
like, Mom, do I have to hearabout this again?
But, you know, like that islike my responsible parenting.
Liz Canada (30:44):
Exactly.
Nicole Clegg (30:44):
It's like you you have to understand and see what
this means for your mom and forthe other people in your lives
who depend on this care.
Liz Canada (30:53):
Absolutely.
That's our jobs as the parentsof the boys to help them grow up
to be the best men they can be.
Okay, you do get to go to allthe health centers, Nicole.
Nicole Clegg (31:02):
I do.
Liz Canada (31:03):
Can you give me just like a little flavor of what
you've seen out in the healthcenters and what they're doing
out there in their healthcenters?
Nicole Clegg (31:10):
I mean, well, first of all, they're lovely.
You know, we are intentionalabout the space that we create.
And, you know, part of that iswe want to communicate to
everyone who walks through ourdoors their value, and they are
important to us.
And so if you walk into any ofour health centers, they're like
bright and cheery and colorful,and there's fun music on.
I mean, although like itdepends on the health center,
(31:32):
what the definition of fun musicis.
But there's a lot of yacht rockout there, I'll be honest.
Liz Canada (31:36):
So not the same as like show tunes.
Okay.
Well, we all have our differentopinions and what excitement
is.
Okay.
Yeah.
Nicole Clegg (31:43):
You know, so you walk in and you're immediately
welcomed into a space.
And our patients say this allthe time.
I've never been listened to theway I've been listened to here.
You know, I've never beentreated with respect.
Like that breaks my heart,really, when you think about
somebody who might be in theirearly 30s who has had, you know,
three decades of experience inthe health care system and no
(32:05):
one ever really asked importantquestions for them.
We provide all kinds of care,and I think that that surprises
people.
We recently did a very funcampaign around menopause care.
Liz Canada (32:17):
I love this campaign.
We can come up with some jokesright now about it because it's
my favorite thing.
If you ever returned a video to blockbuster video, it might be
time to start thinking aboutperimenopause.
Nicole Clegg (32:29):
Or what about the mixtapes?
Liz Canada (32:31):
Yep.
If you made a mixtape forsomeone you liked, yeah, there's
that one.
If you had the slap bracelets.
Nicole Clegg (32:37):
Yes, yep.
Or jellies.
Did you ever wear jellies?
(33:08):
I personally did not, but I had a lot of friends that did.
That was a really fun campaign. It was again about destigmatizing something that has been ignored, like this is an experience that you just have to live with. We often see people with really challenging periods or you might have some other condition underlying condition that's causing that, and they will just say, every doctor I went to just told me to just deal with it. That's just a part of it.
Liz Canada (33:08):
Oh my god.
That's just what you have to accept and you know so like the menopause campaign. That kind of care that we provide where folks are listened to and given an opportunity to like talk about their options and how they can alleviate some of the symptoms is really great. It's really fun. And you know our clinicians and the health center teams are amazing. We provide award-winning care. There's a survey that's called Pres Ganey that evaluates health care providers across the country.
You want to guess what our scoreis?
(33:41):
An A.
Wait, how are we doing scores?
Nicole Clegg (33:43):
Well, I mean, it's a number, but it's definitely
an A.
Liz Canada (33:45):
So I'll say like 94%.
Is that what we did?
Nicole Clegg (33:51):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:52):
Higher.
95.
Nicole Clegg (33:53):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:54):
96.
Nicole Clegg (33:54):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:54):
Oh my God, 97.
Nicole Clegg (33:55):
That is it!
Liz Canada (33:57):
A plus plus.
I mean, that's an A plus plus.
Yes.
Really?
Yes.
Incredible.
Nicole Clegg (34:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my life and some of theprivilege that I've had in my
life, like, you know, I've notbeen in a time when I didn't
have health insurance or Ididn't have options to get care.
There are lots of people thatdon't have health insurance and
don't have the ability to enterinto the health care system.
And to walk into a warm,welcoming space, be treated with
(34:22):
respect and get some of thebest care in the country, it
says something about your valueas a person.
And that, I mean, like, Icouldn't be more proud to be a
part ofan organization that does that.
Liz Canada (34:31):
That's the hope we need to end on right there.
Nicole, thank you so much for taking the time and chatting with me about this and for doing this work and leading the organization in maybe the hardest time possible, like given the landscape nationally and what we are facing,you know, not just after Roe
(34:57):
fell, but now, like in thiscurrent administration, it's
like all the odds are against usand you keep...
Steering the ship and goingforward.
Nicole Clegg (35:06):
Do I stay on target?
Liz Canada (35:07):
You do.
You do.
And you are going to blow upthe Death Star.
I'm pretty sure.
Nicole Clegg (35:12):
I mean, well, I don't have to be the one to blow
up the Death Star.
I just want to help Luke getthere.
Liz Canada (35:17):
Do you want to be Han Solo who flies in and helps?
Nicole Clegg (35:20):
Let's go, kid.
Liz Canada (35:21):
Yes.
You know what?
You could be Han Solo.
Halloween costume idea.
Nicole Clegg (35:26):
Well, Princess Leia has always been my jam.
Liz Canada (35:28):
Oh, okay.
Nicole Clegg (35:29):
Yeah.
I mean, well, when I was young,she was the first badass like
female lead that like just ownedher space.
I mean, like she's this tinylittle woman and she like owned
her space and likewas fearless. I've been in love with her forever.
She is such a great character overall. Powerful, sassy, snarky. Unafraid.
Liz Canada (35:59):
Yeah.
Reality is that Trump in his first term was
incredibly successful in puttinga lot of extremists on the
courts to the point where one infive federal judges is a Trump
appointee.
Liz Canada (00:13):
Woof.
Yeah.
That percentage is too high.
That is way too
Very.
And, you know, I mean,especially because you have
people who have been put on forlifetime appointments that are
not in any way competent orskilled as judges.
You want to name some names, Nicole?
Let's hear them.
Let's hear those judge names.
Nicole Clegg (00:31):
Amarillo, Texas seems to have one.
Liz Canada (00:45):
You are listening to New Hampshire Has Issues, and I
am your host from the future,Liz Canada.
I recorded this episode withNicole back in June, because
when the CEO of PlannedParenthood of Northern New
England comes to your office,you definitely try to record
with her right away.
We talk about things from theJune context, and that means
that a lot has changed sincethen.
The one that I really want toflag for you right now is that
(01:06):
the federal budgetreconciliation, boring words,
but we'll talk about it in theepisode.
We talked about that in a waythat was like, it could happen.
Well, it has happened.
And so when you hear her talkabout what the impact of that
would be, we are in that now,friends.
So thank you for listening.
I am going to put in the shownotes a link that if you live in
(01:29):
Northern New England, Maine,New Hampshire, or Vermont, you
can donate directly to PlannedParenthood of Northern New
England towards the health carethat the health centers deliver
day to day.
High quality, excellent healthcare that we'll talk about as
well.
If you would like to supportthe show, that link is there as
well.
Thank you for those who alreadydo.
And new episodes every Tuesday.
(01:50):
We've got some great episodescoming up.
So like, subscribe, share theseepisodes with your friends,
leave a rating would be great.
And again, thank you forlistening.
I will pass it back over to theJune version of me.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues, the podcast that dares
to ask, does New Hampshire havemore issues than Maine and
(02:11):
Vermont?
What do you think, Nicole?
Nicole Clegg (02:13):
Yeah, I'm going to do a Star Wars reference.
Liz Canada (02:15):
Oh, go for it.
Let's hear it.
Yes.
Nicole Clegg (02:16):
And say, can New Hampshire stay on target?
Liz Canada (02:20):
I remember what happened to that guy that says
stay on target.
Nicole Clegg (02:22):
He lives.
He does.
Liz Canada (02:24):
Stay on target guy?
Nicole Clegg (02:25):
Yeah, yeah, he does.
Liz Canada (02:27):
Oh, he does.
Nicole Clegg (02:29):
Yeah.
Stay on target.
Liz Canada (02:30):
Yes.
Right.
So are you the stay on targetguy?
And I'm the one who gets howdoes this?
Nicole Clegg (02:36):
Well, no, I think that no, because they don't all
die.
But stay on target is aboutlike it's the long view.
You can't get distracted.
You got to stay on target.
Liz Canada (02:46):
Yeah.
It's so hard, though, Nicole.
It's so hard.
Nicole Clegg (02:50):
I know, but you can do it.
Liz Canada (02:51):
We have had some wins in New Hampshire this year.
It's been...
Nicole Clegg (02:54):
I mean, like, I keep joking because I wish I had
recorded both of you the dayafter the election so I could
play it back to you today.
Liz Canada (03:01):
Footage not found, thankfully.
So I am your host, Liz Canada,and joining me today to talk
about...
abortion rights, reproductiverights, and the landscape across
Maine, New Hampshire, andVermont is the CEO of Planned
Parenthood of Northern NewEngland.
And in other words, my biggestof big bosses, Nicole Clegg.
(03:26):
So big.
So big.
So big.
You're the ultimate, you're thebig boss.
Nicole, thank you for beinghere.
Nicole Clegg (03:33):
Thank you for having me.
Liz Canada (03:33):
Thanks for chatting with me.
I had heard you were coming toConcord, New Hampshire.
I was like, can I...
grab her for a few minutes totalk about all the things in our
state.
So thank you for taking thetime.
I know you are so busy.
Nicole Clegg (03:48):
I love making time for you.
Anytime.
Liz Canada (03:51):
CEO.
I get to talk to the CEO today.
It is incredible.
I don't know how familiar youare with the podcast that is new
to the scene.
New Hampshire has issues that Ihave created, but every episode
I bring on a guest to talkabout an issue in New Hampshire.
But you are a celebrity.
Nicole Clegg (04:09):
Oh.
Liz Canada (04:10):
Yes.
Because you are a CEO ofPlanned Parenthood of Northern
New England, three states, whichI think also have issues
overall.
Nicole Clegg (04:20):
Yeah.
Liz Canada (04:20):
So I'm hoping we can just talk today about...
I don't know, the disaster thatis our federal government and
what might be happening in ourthree states.
Are you okay with that?
Nicole Clegg (04:30):
I'm happy to.
Liz Canada (04:31):
Would you classify it as a disaster or are there
other words you might use?
As a CEO, are there otherthings you might say?
I say disaster because...
Nicole Clegg (04:42):
Yeah, okay.
I mean, like, I think that wediffer a little bit because some
of us might be half emptypeople and some of us are half
full.
You know, so I think it's amixed bag.
I mean, like, I would saydespite all of the hard things
that are coming to us, wecontinue to provide exceptional
care to people who walk throughour doors every day.
And that's the win.
Liz Canada (05:04):
So...
There are health centers inMaine, New Hampshire, Vermont.
I know this because I workhere.
So I do know some things.
Thank you.
Spoiler alert, listeners.
But our three states are verydifferent in our laws.
And, you know, this wholepodcast is about New Hampshire.
But Maine and Vermont aredifferent from one another as
(05:25):
well.
I think people assume about NewEngland in general that
everything is super duper great.
What are some of the...
I guess, issues, butdifferences across the three
states when you think of yourrole as the CEO of this
organization.
How do you deal with thedifferences?
What are the differences thatare out there?
Talk to me about those things.
Nicole Clegg (05:48):
Happily.
Well, first, I like to describethe northern New England as we
have...
Maine and Vermont are the twosides of the toothpaste tube and
New Hampshire is the middle.
And we're just going to squeezeall that toothpaste out of it.
Liz Canada (06:02):
I definitely feel squeezed.
So that's very accurate.
Great.
Yes.
Yes, definitely.
Nicole Clegg (06:09):
I mean, it's interesting, right, like that we
have sort of very homogenousstates, you know, and in some
ways the issues that we arefacing in all three are really
similar.
You know, how do you deliverhealth care in a really rural
part of the country?
How do you deal with an aginghousing stock?
You know, how do we make surethat there is employment
(06:30):
opportunity for young people andattract them to our states?
Like, it is interesting that,like, the three states are
grappling with kind of the sameproblems.
And, you know, I would sayMaine is a bit of a mix.
(06:53):
And then New Hampshire'schallenged in that space where
the views are more complicatedwhen it comes to what can
government do and how cangovernment answer in this
moment.
So there's that.
And then on top of that, youhave like across the board, a
deep commitment to individualrights and decision making.
(07:15):
Like, I don't think that youwould hear kind of a different
perspective from a Mainer orGranite Stater or a Vermonter.
Like they all care a lot aboutlike, hey, I don't need you in
my business.
I don't want you makingdecisions about like when I'm
going to start a family or whoI'm going to, you know, be in
love with.
Like that's my place.
That's in my home.
(07:36):
I mean, so like those are thegreat things.
And those are the things thatmake it easy to, you know, I
don't have to change how I talkabout the issues depending on
the state that I'm in because weall sort of hold these values
in the same way.
Liz Canada (07:49):
Privacy.
I love my house.
I love my community.
I love my state.
There's a lot of state pride inall three of those states.
What about around abortionlaws?
The first episode of thispodcast, I had Kayla on and we
talked about abortion rights.
Nicole Clegg (08:05):
And I listened to it.
Liz Canada (08:05):
Oh, thank you.
Love a listener.
But we talked about how we-
Nicole Clegg (08:08):
Is it like long-time caller first, or
long-time listener, first-timecaller?
Liz Canada (08:12):
Yes.
Long-time CEO, first-timeguest, medium listener.
We'll workshop that.
But Kayla was on and we talkedabout how folks might be
surprised to find out we don'thave the right to abortion in
New Hampshire and that that'ssomething that we are, of
course, advocating for and soforth.
But what is it like in Maineand Vermont comparatively?
Nicole Clegg (08:32):
Well, let's start with Vermont, which, you know,
yeah, passed a constitutionalamendment and codified
reproductive liberty in theirstate constitution.
Yeah.
So, you know, they really havedone some amazing work.
I mean, had to pass by twothirds of the voters.
And it did.
Liz Canada (08:47):
And it did.
Nicole Clegg (08:48):
And it passed in every single precinct.
Every single one.
Yeah.
And that's incredible andremarkable.
Liz Canada (08:55):
And that was after Roe v.
Wade was overturned or before?
Nicole Clegg (08:58):
Well, so the process for the constitutional
amendment in Vermont takes aboutfour years.
Liz Canada (09:06):
Oh, my God.
Y eah.
Nicole Clegg (09:06):
So the process had actually started, you know,
when Brett Kavanaugh was likenot on the scene and there
wasn't this sort of likeimmediate threat or worry about
losing protections of Roe.
It was sort of like, we'reVermont.
We want to take, you know, likewe're going to keep And lo and
(09:26):
behold, it was incrediblynecessary.
Liz Canada (09:35):
There's something about the language had to be the
same throughout the entireprocess.
That's a lot of work to getover the finish line.
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean, it's really incredible.
Nicole Clegg (09:45):
This speaks to we always have to have the long
view.
Like, I know that there's adesire to kind of like look at
this election by election.
But when you're talking about afight for autonomy or basic
human rights, you don't get tothink about it in those short
terms.
You really do have to kind oflike have a long vision.
And so I credit the folks inVermont for doing that.
(10:07):
And I mean, it proved reallyvaluable.
In Maine, we have somethingcalled the Reproductive Privacy
Act, which was codified into lawin the 90s.
And so that essentially putinto law the tenets of the Roe
versus Wade decision, which isthat everybody has the right to
end a pregnancy.
At the time, it had sort of acaveat around viability.
(10:30):
That has since been addressedin the law to allow for, you
know, abortions later inpregnancy, which are necessary.
And certainly, I think sincewe've lost Roe, people are
understanding more and more whythose are so necessary.
Liz Canada (10:43):
Absolutely.
Nicole Clegg (10:44):
I mean, what's interesting, too, the driver in
the 90s for the statelegislature in Maine to pass it
was there was the same concernthat the Supreme Court was going
to overturn Roe, that theydidn't know kind of how Sandra
Day O'Connor and, you know, likehow these people were going to
land.
And they felt like they neededto have these protections in
place.
(11:04):
Lo and behold, It didn't happenthen.
But, you know, several decadeslater, here we are in a
situation where it's reallyvaluable to have that codified
into state law.
So those are important pieces.
There's another, you know,distinction.
I mean, like there's a bunch ofother distinctions in the laws,
especially when you comparethem to New Hampshire.
You know, I think that thething that I sort of always lean
(11:25):
into and want people tounderstand is that people who
are covered by Medicaid inVermont and Maine have abortion
coverage, but they don't havethat in New Hampshire.
Liz Canada (11:35):
Right.
Nicole Clegg (11:56):
In addition to having the law in New Hampshire
so that you could point to someprotections, that doesn't get us
fully there, right?
We still need to be taking careof everybody to make sure that
the right isn't just a right onthe law books, but it's actually
like people can access it.
Liz Canada (12:11):
Right.
It's more than just saying wesort of give you permission,
you're allowed to do this, butactually making it accessible
for everybody.
Nicole Clegg (12:19):
Right.
Liz Canada (12:19):
Maine and Vermont, they're doing pretty well
overall.
But there's also differences.
When my friends from Colorado,I lived in Colorado for 10
years, they know of NewHampshire as being like in New
England, totally fine,everything must be going well.
And even people in state seemaybe our federal delegation,
which is extremely supportive ofabortion rights.
Nicole Clegg (12:41):
Better than Maine.
Liz Canada (12:42):
Better than Maine.
Right.
So like, how is it to workacross these states where you
have, you know, in NewHampshire, our state lawmakers
are, I will let you just fill inthe blank however you would
like in terms of where we are.
But our federal delegation isreally supportive and actively
supportive, proactively gettingout there and sponsoring
(13:03):
positive legislation forreproductive rights.
What is it like to work acrossstates where that's not
necessarily the case, especiallyin this Trump administration?
What should we be lookingtoward in our federal
delegations in all three states?
Nicole Clegg (13:15):
Well, I mean, this is where the battle line has
been drawn, right?
I don't want to diminish thefights that you have in Concord,
the statehouse, are plenty andthey're I mean, they're
already...
taking action.
(13:44):
We saw this through a federalfamily planning program called
Title X, which we had our fundswithheld for New Hampshire.
And those are dollars that helpcover the cost of free care,
because a lot of people don'tknow that we provide care to
anybody who walks through thedoor, regardless of their
ability to pay.
Liz Canada (14:02):
No matter what.
Nicole Clegg (14:04):
Correct.
Liz Canada (14:04):
Somebody shows up at Planned Parenthood, they're
going to get the health carethat they need, even if they
cannot pay.
Nicole Clegg (14:09):
Exactly.
And we rely on these funds tohelp us do that.
They don't cover the entirecost, let's be clear, but it's
an important contributor.
So we've had those fundswithheld under really bogus
claims.
We have lived up to everyexpectation of our grants.
We actually got inspected rightbefore the election and had
(14:30):
glowing reviews.
The department was like, thisis incredible what you're doing.
So they've done that.
We now have a budgetreconciliation bill, which is
this sort of special vehiclethat Congress
has where they can pass something just with a simple majority. In the Senate, this is really the only time that you can pass something with a simple majority. Every other thing requires 60 votes.
Liz Canada (14:43):
I think this is, I'm going to say this as
respectfully as possible.
For regular people who don'tthink about this all the time,
which is almost everyone.
Nicole Clegg (15:03):
Yep.
Liz Canada (15:04):
Folks might assume that the Senate is like whoever
has more senators getseverything they want.
That's not the case for themost part.
It's usually, as you just said,60 votes are necessary out of
100.
So this, and the words are sowonky, but budget
reconciliation, that's differentwhere it is a simple majority.
(15:25):
And so what is...
Tell me more about that,because I think that's helpful
for folks to maybe understand.
Yeah.
Nicole Clegg (15:43):
This one exception is budget reconciliation.
And because we know there arenot 60 votes in the Senate to
pass a restriction onreproductive rights and freedoms
or to target PlannedParenthood.
They couldn't ever pass that inthe Senate.
So the only option they have isbudget reconciliation.
And so the bill that has passedthe House and is now being
(16:06):
worked on in the Senate includeslanguage that targets Planned
Parenthood and says we can nolonger participate in the
Medicaid program, which isoutrageous.
Who bothers to target aparticular health care provider
and say that you can't
Liz Canada (16:24):
Right.
(16:54):
do this. This is a priority of Congress right now. And they aretargeting Planned Parenthood
and kicking us out of theMedicaid program is going to
cost the government $300million.
Yeah.
Just a deep sigh about that impact.
And all of it comes down to afew lawmakers, enough lawmakers
who hate abortion.
(17:14):
Like, is that what it really isat the end of the day?
Is that they're trying to...
Nicole Clegg (17:17):
Yes.
Liz Canada (17:18):
It feels like they're just trying to ban
abortion knowing they can't passa bill that would ban abortion.
(17:53):
We are, across the country, Planned Parenthood affiliates provide abortion care. And we are a critical part of that health care network. If we all stopped providing abortion care, this defund wouldn't impact us. It is specific to the fact that we provide abortion. So in case there is any question about the motives and what they might be claiming, it's all about, let's go after the largest nationalhealth care provider and try
and shut them down becausethat'll be our best way of
removing access to abortion in astate like New Hampshire.
And potentially in a state like Vermont.
We talked about this in thatepisode with Kayla, where you
have these constitutionalamendments and protections, but
the federal lawmakers who areanti-abortion are trying other
(18:16):
strategies to affect thosestates regardless.
Nicole Clegg (18:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're not done.
I mean, this whole line about,we're just giving it back to the
states is just a complete liebecause they've taken care of
that.
They have restricted abortionacross half of the country.
That is not what this is about.
This is about going into stateswhere it's legal and making it
impossible to access there.
(18:39):
And that should make peoplereally mad.
Liz Canada (18:41):
It makes me pretty mad.
Yes, I think it makes a lot ofpeople mad because abortion is
health care.
It is not actuallycontroversial.
Every time I hear someone saythat abortion is controversial,
I'm like, call a timeout.
I'm like, actually, it's not.
Planned Parenthood is wildlypopular.
Folks want health care and theydon't want the government to
take it away.
And this is a strategy thatthese folks are using in D.C.
(19:06):
to impact states where folksprobably assume they're safe and
won't be impacted by theirstate lawmakers.
Nicole Clegg (19:12):
Yeah.
Liz Canada (19:13):
Boy, oh boy.
Roe v.
Wade was overturned by the U.S.
Supreme Court, but the courtdecisions and fights in the
courts aren't done. Like, whydoes this keep happening,
Nicole?
Like, why are there...
Aren't they done?
Shouldn't they be over nowbecause they accomplished what
they wanted to?
What are we seeing happening inthe courts across the country,
(19:33):
you know, generally speaking?
And...
Are our Junes ever going to notinvolve worrying about the
Supreme Court?
Nicole Clegg (20:06):
Right.
(20:36):
So what's the Hamilton song? You'll never be satisfied?
First of all, I love a musical theater reference. It's my favorite thing in the world.
But did you want to associate it with anti-abortion extremists?
Liz Canada (20:36):
No, I did not.
They'll never be satisfied until abortion is 100% illegal and unavailable in our country. They are going to pursue every pathway, that includes the courts. The reality is they can't pass an abortion ban in Congress, they're going to do it through the Court. And it doesn't necessarily look head on, it's going to be some sneaky way, like let's call into question the medications that are involved in the medication abortion, even though they're incredibly safe and have been used for decades around the world. They are now going to use junk science and make up things to try and claim that people shouldn't have access. That's an active court case right now, where there's a direct threat on medication abortion, which is the majority choice for people. They won't stop. And so we won't stop.
Right? We're going to see it in Congress, we're going to see it at the legislature, we're going to see it at the courts.
I mean, part of it is a deathby a thousand paper cuts, right?
(21:07):
It's to just exhaust us,deplete us in, you know, any way
possible.
But, you know, we are aresilient group.
Like, you know, they, you know,come at us one way, we move to
the other.
And I mean, they certainly havehad some wins, but we're still
here.
We're still providing care.
Yeah, the Supreme Court isn't changing anytime
(21:30):
soon.
And so the battles willcontinue.
There have been folks who'veasked, like, do we have do we
have wins?
Where are our wins at thefederal level or in the courts?
Like, does that does thathappen?
Or are our wins different thanthat?
Nicole Clegg (21:50):
Well, I mean, you know, certainly.
You've had wins in NewHampshire.
Liz Canada (21:53):
We've had some wins.
Nicole Clegg (21:54):
And we have wins in the courts.
I mean, sometimes it'ssurprising when it's like a
Trump-appointed justice that islike, this is so outside of the
realm of normal law.
We're not going to accept this.
We'll see the challenges tomifepristone, which is one of
the pills that's a part of amedication abortion.
(22:15):
We can win there in the courts. Now the challenge is, we win in the courts, but we have RFK who wants to sort of dismantle the FDA and put on people who aren't scientists who might be willing to rewrite the FDA drug rules for mifepristone. So you know it's a bit of a whack a mole, like we might knock it down here and then we're gonna have to go fight it over there. I mean, we'll see what the Supreme Court does this session. There are some cases before them thathave to do with access to
(22:47):
reproductive rights and PlannedParenthood in particular.
You know, so we'll I mean,we'll see where they land.
I mean, we do have wins andlike, you know, we we're winning
in popular opinion, likeoverwhelmingly.
And, you know, I think thatwe've had wins during different
elections.
But, you know, people the waypeople vote is complicated.
(23:08):
And, you know, if we have astraight up question about
abortion, it's going to win.
But when it's about acandidate, it's not as simple as
like, well, they're pro-choiceor they're anti-choice. I mean the thing we do know is that when Trump was running this time, his staff sat down with a memo in October and said, if we don't modify your position on abortion, you're going to lose.
And that's when all of a suddenhe started to, you know, tweet
(23:37):
or truth social or whatever itis about how he would veto an
abortion ban.
And, you know, Elon Musk all ofa sudden started spending
millions of dollars online inads targeted at young people to
confuse them about his positionon abortion.
So they know it's a losingissue.
I mean, do I wish that likethey knew it enough?
(23:59):
So we'll have to probably teachhim this lesson again, you
know, next November.
But there are wins.
And, you know, and I say this alot to staff, especially the
staff in the health centers who,you know, they're like so
frustrated.
They're like, what do we do?
What do we do?
And like, how do we show ourdefiance?
And and, you know, I'm likeyour acts every day of providing
the high quality, nonjudgmentalcare that you do is an act of
(24:23):
defiance.
Liz Canada (24:23):
That's absolutely right.
They are providing life savingcare, excellent health care,
reliable care where a patientcan go in and know I am getting
the best health care I possiblycan.
And that matters more than meshowing up at the state house in
my little suit and tie.
Nicole Clegg (24:38):
Well, don't undersell yourself.
Liz Canada (24:40):
Yes, but it's also like that is why we do the work
that we do is because we have...
Nicole Clegg (24:45):
Yeah,
Liz Canada (24:46):
we're fighting for the health centers and for the
providers at the health centersand the patients.
Nicole, you always do a reallygreat job for the staff to offer
us glimmers of hope andoptimism and sort of forward
looking direction.
If I'm listening to thispodcast and I'm feeling really
(25:06):
bummed out because like theTrump administration and this
budget, all these things arehappening.
What is the hope you see outthere for our three states, or
dare I say, the country, ifpossible.
Nicole Clegg (25:18):
This will pass.
It will pass.
It's going to require us all tostand up.
And take action and, you know,speak out for what we care
about.
But, you know, actually justcommunicated this to staff
because, you know, next week isthe federal holiday of
Juneteenth, right?
And you think about the, youknow, this incredible journey
(25:41):
for one, eliminating slavery,but then also civil rights.
You have to take the long view.
You cannot just think aboutlike this moment in time.
You have to sort of look atlike, how am I going to get to,
you know, the that arc ofjustice.
And, you know, we like goodstories, right?
You're a storyteller.
Liz Canada (25:59):
I love a story.
Nicole Clegg (26:01):
We want a narrative.
And so we always try to put thenarrative together.
So it's like this one big thinghappened, like Luke destroyed
the Death Star.
And that's what got us through,you know.
Liz Canada (26:11):
I love a Star Wars reference.
This is very exciting.
Okay.
Nicole Clegg (26:15):
But that's not what the real story is, right?
It's thousands of littleactions.
It's the protests that we allparticipate in.
It's the calls that we make.
It's the conversations that we're having.
That's what really tips thescales.
(26:54):
And so I understand, it's easy, if you just want to scroll, to get lost. Weknow that this is what happens.
Crazy thing is there were a lotof people who voted for Trump
who love Planned Parenthood.
Liz Canada (27:02):
That's so mind boggling.
For me, someone who works atPlanned Parenthood, like it is
really mind boggling because itseems so like a disconnect.
It feels like a disconnect.
Nicole Clegg (27:13):
And so it's our job to connect the dots.
You know, it's helped them tosee that your vote here, you
know, and maybe you were mad.
Maybe you wanted change.
Maybe, you know, it's a symptomof distrust.
That wasn't the path.
If you love what we do and youwant to protect what we do, it's
a different path to get there.
And I do fundamentally believethat that's what's going to get
(27:35):
us through, I mean, four years.
Four years is a blip in ourhistory.
And I know I don't want to saythat in a way that's cavalier to
the people who are reallygetting hurt right now because
there are lots of people livingin fear and like afraid to leave
their homes.
And that is a travesty.
But I do think we will organizeourselves, and you're seeing
(27:56):
that, right?
Like you're seeing moreprotests and more action.
That's what it's going to take.
And it's going to take a lot ofit for us to get to the other
side.
But we will get there.
Liz Canada (28:06):
I'm going to believe you, Nicole, because I am, you
said earlier, half empty, halffull.
Nicole Clegg (28:16):
You don't have a choice.
I have to believe you on this one. What is the one thing you would have someone do right now, because there are rallies and protests, ifthey care about abortion
rights?
Talk about it and talk about it online.
Talk about it with theirfriends.
Make this a normal part of theconversation.
I mean, you know, even thoughlike we are talking so much more
(28:38):
about abortion than we everhave in history, it's still
shrouded in a lot of like shameand stigma.
And, you know, people can beafraid to like, do I bring this
up?
Liz Canada (28:46):
Right.
Nicole Clegg (28:46):
Am I allowed to talk about this?
Liz Canada (28:48):
Say the word abortion.
It is OK.
Nicole (28:50):
The more you talk about it and treat it as health care
and talk about like these arenormal human decisions that
people make in theirlives, the better off we are.
And I'm going to put anasterisk next to it, though, and
just say that men have beenleft out of this conversation.
And rightly or wrongly, like, Ithink that, you know, in some
ways, you know, the movement forabortion rights came out of the
women's movement came out, youknow, like it brought women
(29:12):
together and sort of made themactivists and feminists.
It did, you know, and there waspower and like incredible
progress as a result of that.
It didn't create I mean, likewe haven't successfully created
space for men to come into thisconversation with us.
And we do need to do that.
They need to see how thisconnects to their lives in the
(29:32):
same way.
And so I would say, talk aboutit and then talk about it with
your brother.
Talk about it with yourcolleague or neighbor.
Let's not be afraid of bringingup this conversation and
saying, hey, this really mattersto me.
And I don't know if you'vethought about it, but can we
have a conversation?
Liz Canada (29:48):
Welcome, men.
We are here.
Come on over.
We're delighted to have youhere.
I know we talk about andabortion with our two sons our
two kiddos and I think they theyhave actually started talking
to me about they don't say theword stigma but they they say
like well Liz you work atPlanned Parenthood I can't tell
people where you work and I'mlike oh you already see that in
(30:11):
middle school like they'realready sort of feeling that
sort of you know abortion issomething we don't we can't
really talk about and we have todismantle that perspective.
We have to address that headon.
We can't we can't shy away fromit or else it just the cycle
continues.
So welcome to the show, men.
We're here to invite you in tothe conversation.
Nicole Clegg (30:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, well, as I'm also aparent of a son and I mean, one,
I think most of the time herolls his eyes because he's
like, Mom, do I have to hearabout this again?
But, you know, like that islike my responsible parenting.
Liz Canada (30:44):
Exactly.
Nicole Clegg (30:44):
It's like you you have to understand and see what
this means for your mom and forthe other people in your lives
who depend on this care.
Liz Canada (30:53):
Absolutely.
That's our jobs as the parentsof the boys to help them grow up
to be the best men they can be.
Okay, you do get to go to allthe health centers, Nicole.
Nicole Clegg (31:02):
I do.
Liz Canada (31:03):
Can you give me just like a little flavor of what
you've seen out in the healthcenters and what they're doing
out there in their healthcenters?
Nicole Clegg (31:10):
I mean, well, first of all, they're lovely.
You know, we are intentionalabout the space that we create.
And, you know, part of that iswe want to communicate to
everyone who walks through ourdoors their value, and they are
important to us.
And so if you walk into any ofour health centers, they're like
bright and cheery and colorful,and there's fun music on.
I mean, although like itdepends on the health center,
(31:32):
what the definition of fun musicis.
But there's a lot of yacht rockout there, I'll be honest.
Liz Canada (31:36):
So not the same as like show tunes.
Okay.
Well, we all have our differentopinions and what excitement
is.
Okay.
Yeah.
Nicole Clegg (31:43):
You know, so you walk in and you're immediately
welcomed into a space.
And our patients say this allthe time.
I've never been listened to theway I've been listened to here.
You know, I've never beentreated with respect.
Like that breaks my heart,really, when you think about
somebody who might be in theirearly 30s who has had, you know,
three decades of experience inthe health care system and no
(32:05):
one ever really asked importantquestions for them.
We provide all kinds of care,and I think that that surprises
people.
We recently did a very funcampaign around menopause care.
Liz Canada (32:17):
I love this campaign.
We can come up with some jokesright now about it because it's
my favorite thing.
If you ever returned a video to blockbuster video, it might be
time to start thinking aboutperimenopause.
Nicole Clegg (32:29):
Or what about the mixtapes?
Liz Canada (32:31):
Yep.
If you made a mixtape forsomeone you liked, yeah, there's
that one.
If you had the slap bracelets.
Nicole Clegg (32:37):
Yes, yep.
Or jellies.
Did you ever wear jellies?
(33:08):
I personally did not, but I had a lot of friends that did.
That was a really fun campaign. It was again about destigmatizing something that has been ignored, like this is an experience that you just have to live with. We often see people with really challenging periods or you might have some other condition underlying condition that's causing that, and they will just say, every doctor I went to just told me to just deal with it. That's just a part of it.
Liz Canada (33:08):
Oh my god.
That's just what you have to accept and you know so like the menopause campaign. That kind of care that we provide where folks are listened to and given an opportunity to like talk about their options and how they can alleviate some of the symptoms is really great. It's really fun. And you know our clinicians and the health center teams are amazing. We provide award-winning care. There's a survey that's called Pres Ganey that evaluates health care providers across the country.
You want to guess what our scoreis?
(33:41):
An A.
Wait, how are we doing scores?
Nicole Clegg (33:43):
Well, I mean, it's a number, but it's definitely
an A.
Liz Canada (33:45):
So I'll say like 94%.
Is that what we did?
Nicole Clegg (33:51):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:52):
Higher.
95.
Nicole Clegg (33:53):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:54):
96.
Nicole Clegg (33:54):
Higher.
Liz Canada (33:54):
Oh my God, 97.
Nicole Clegg (33:55):
That is it!
Liz Canada (33:57):
A plus plus.
I mean, that's an A plus plus.
Yes.
Really?
Yes.
Incredible.
Nicole Clegg (34:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my life and some of theprivilege that I've had in my
life, like, you know, I've notbeen in a time when I didn't
have health insurance or Ididn't have options to get care.
There are lots of people thatdon't have health insurance and
don't have the ability to enterinto the health care system.
And to walk into a warm,welcoming space, be treated with
(34:22):
respect and get some of thebest care in the country, it
says something about your valueas a person.
And that, I mean, like, Icouldn't be more proud to be a
part ofan organization that does that.
Liz Canada (34:31):
That's the hope we need to end on right there.
Nicole, thank you so much for taking the time and chatting with me about this and for doing this work and leading the organization in maybe the hardest time possible, like given the landscape nationally and what we are facing,you know, not just after Roe
(34:57):
fell, but now, like in thiscurrent administration, it's
like all the odds are against usand you keep...
Steering the ship and goingforward.
Nicole Clegg (35:06):
Do I stay on target?
Liz Canada (35:07):
You do.
You do.
And you are going to blow upthe Death Star.
I'm pretty sure.
Nicole Clegg (35:12):
I mean, well, I don't have to be the one to blow
up the Death Star.
I just want to help Luke getthere.
Liz Canada (35:17):
Do you want to be Han Solo who flies in and helps?
Nicole Clegg (35:20):
Let's go, kid.
Liz Canada (35:21):
Yes.
You know what?
You could be Han Solo.
Halloween costume idea.
Nicole Clegg (35:26):
Well, Princess Leia has always been my jam.
Liz Canada (35:28):
Oh, okay.
Nicole Clegg (35:29):
Yeah.
I mean, well, when I was young,she was the first badass like
female lead that like just ownedher space.
I mean, like she's this tinylittle woman and she like owned
her space and likewas fearless. I've been in love with her forever.
She is such a great character overall. Powerful, sassy, snarky. Unafraid.
Liz Canada (35:59):
Yeah.
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