July 15, 2025 • 47 mins
Why are people “suddenly” talking about transgender people? And books? And bathrooms? What does this have to do with New Hampshire?
In this episode, Liz and Heidi Carrington Heath (Executive Director of New Hampshire Outright) cover some of the frequently asked questions they've gotten about LGBTQ+ folks, especially transgender individuals and young people.
Liz asks Heidi her favorite coming out story. Heidi, in turn, gives a big shout out to her mom (hi, mom!).
New episodes every Tuesday.
Become a supporter of the show.
Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email Liz: newhampshirehasissues@gmail.com
Links:
- New Hampshire Outright
- Heidi's three actions:
- Call Gov. Ayotte at 603-271-2121 and/or use ACLU-NH's tool to contact her
- Donate to New Hampshire Outright's mutual aid fund
- Read Abi Maxwell's book One Day I'll Grow Up and Be a Beautiful Woman: A Mother's Story
- NH lawmakers give final OK to bills banning transgender health care for minors (NHPR)
- N.H. Senate passes bathroom bill, sending it to Ayotte’s desk (Concord Monitor)
- After Supreme Court ruling on trans healthcare, some in NH prepare for more restrictions (NHPR)
- New Hampshire teenagers challenge Trump’s ban on transgender girls in girls’ sports (NH Bulletin)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I want to hear the best coming out story.
Okay, listener, we're both queerfolks.
So let's start.
Spoiler alert, gay things ahead.
Surprise! This is a coming outepisode as well.
If you don't know that I'm gay,even though I talk about my wife
Molly all the time.
This is Breaking News.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
Where's our banner?
Breaking News.
Liz Canada and HeidiCarrington-Heath.
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Queer.
UNKNOWN (00:27):
Queer.
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the
podcast that dares to ask, whyis anyone thinking about
bathrooms this much?
All right, Heidi, how aboutyours?
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the
podcast that dares to ask, whoreally gets to live free in the
live free or die state?
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
So perfect.
Well, I am your host, LizCanada.
And joining me today is theexecutive director of New
Hampshire Outright, HeidiCarrington-Heath.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
glad to be here.
Tell me about your organization,New Hampshire Outright.
What do you all do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Yes, so New Hampshire Outright is New
Hampshire's oldest LGBTQ plusorganization, and we serve,
support, and advocate for LGBTQplus youth and their families
across the state of NewHampshire.
32 years ago, a group of parentsand caregivers gathered at the
University of New Hampshire andsaid, there's all these
(01:36):
resources for parents andcaregivers, but we're really
lacking in resources for kidsonline.
What can we do about that?
And out of that initialconversation, then Seacoast
Outright, now New HampshireOutright was born.
And I like to think we've heldon to a little bit of that
scrappy organizing spirit, evenas we've grown over the years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Let's give a little permission to a listener,
because what I have learned inmy time working in
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
New
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Hampshire or working in advocacy spaces or just
existing in this world is isthat sometimes folks just don't
understand because they have noexperience, no firsthand
experience.
And so, listener, this is yourpermission and invitation that
if this is the first time youhave heard folks talk about
(02:24):
transgender people, transgendergirls, transgender boys, LGBTQ
issues, great.
I'm so glad you're here.
That's incredible.
So take it all in.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yes, I will second that.
Hi, listener.
I'm Heidi.
I use she, her pronouns.
Welcome to this conversation.
And totally agreed, Liz.
In my experience working in NewHampshire and elsewhere across
the country, I've been in LGBTQplus movement work now for over
20 years.
And when When folks don'tunderstand something or
(02:56):
something feels new or scary,they might have questions and
feel like they can't ask them.
Or they might feel, have areally hard time parsing out
what's real, right?
What is true versus what is athing I've been told, or just
not understand.
And all of those things areokay.
And we want to invite you toengage with us and listen and be
(03:17):
part of this conversation fromwhere you are.
So welcome.
We're glad you're here.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
We are so glad you're here.
We have a lot to cover.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
We have a lot to cover.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
We have a lot to cover, tragically.
Let's start with a simplequestion.
What is your favorite coming outstory of your own self?
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
So I think I'll start at least with sort of my
initial coming out story, bothbecause I feel like it so deeply
exemplifies who my mom is in theworld and also a real trait of
one young Heidi CarringtonHeath.
So my mother would tell you thatI saved up all of my best and
hardest conversations to have inthe car.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
That is such a kid thing to do for a parent.
I'm going to wait and you'regoing to be trapped in this
vehicle and I'm going to ask youquestions.
questions and there's nowhereyou can run because you are
driving it's so true oh my god
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
hi mom if you're listening
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
mom please listen we'll send it to her we'll make
sure she gets the episode
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
So I came out initially my first year of
college.
You know, I had had moved out ofhome, gone away to school, sort
of started to get a little bitof independence under my wing.
And like a good late 90s orearly 2000s after school
special, I fell in love with mybest friend at college.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
Tale as old as time.
Truly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
You know, at the end of this turned out to be
straight, which so oftenhappens.
Tell us all this time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Times two.
Yes.
Yes.
UNKNOWN (04:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
But she was also sort of my launch, as it were,
into the world as a queer woman.
And having that experience offalling in love for the first
time and really coming tounderstand these feelings that I
had had and not been able to putany language around.
Because when we were younger, wehad much less representation in
(05:14):
books and media and classrooms.
It was like, oh, that's why whenall of my friends Yeah.
Yeah.
(05:42):
She'll
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
never crack the code.
She'll never figure this oneout.
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
And so we were driving to the mall.
One of my first weekends homefrom college, my first year of
school, she was driving.
She said to me, so...
I have a question.
And instantly, everything in mybody knew what was coming.
(06:08):
I was like, oh
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
boy.
She wasn't like, where do youwant to go in the food court?
That was not the question shewas going to ask.
Should we define a mall for thelistener?
We'll let them look it up.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
And she said, so...
You've brought Susie, I'll callher Susie, you've brought Susie
home with you a couple of timesnow.
And I sort of sighed and said,yes, mom.
And she said, and you'recertainly, long pause,
physically closer with her thanyou are with your other friends.
Long pause.
Yes, mom.
(06:39):
Long pause.
So I'm just wondering, are youmore than friends?
And I was like, yes, mom.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
So she trapped you in the car for this one.
Yeah.
This is good.
I
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
was like, I see you using my own tools here, Mama.
And then she said the thing thatI hope for every kid to hear
when this conversation happens,however it happens, which is I
just wanted to make sure youweren't not telling me because
you worried that I wouldn't loveyou.
Or you worried that I would beupset.
Good job, Mama.
Because I am not upset.
UNKNOWN (07:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
And I do love you and I'll always be here for you.
And like this, this is what Iwant for every kid when they
come out as a parent or acaregiver on the other side of
the conversation, ready to meetthem there.
I was, as 18 year olds reallytend to be, I was very moody and
a little annoyed about thisconversation, but also felt very
loved and very supported.
(07:34):
So thanks, mom.
I love you a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Good job, mom.
What a great model to put outthere.
My favorite coming out story.
story of my own was with my bestfriend, not the best friend I
was in love with from highschool.
I had been away at college.
You know, when I would come backhome, my friends and I would go
to the diner that we always usedto go to in high school, and we
(08:00):
were drinking a Coffee at 10.30p.m.
I literally can't drink coffeenow after 12 p.m.
It's a danger zone.
I will be up for three days if Ido that.
But we were drinking coffee andhaving fries with gravy.
Welcome to New Jersey, everyone.
We were sitting in the smokingsection of the diner because she
(08:27):
was a smoker and I...
couldn't really even say thewords out loud and i was like i
am and i like just started likewhispering it i'm like a lesbian
and i wouldn't even use thatword for myself now but like
then in like 2001 whatever itwas yeah same and her reaction
(08:48):
was oh my god I've always wanteda lesbian friend.
And I was like, you've had one.
That's been me this whole time.
Yay.
So it was just extremely sweet.
I was so nervous about saying itout loud.
And I really hadn't ever said itout loud.
And saying it to her was great.
(09:10):
You and I grew up in an erawhere even coming out as queer
folks, maybe I'll just speak formyself, was extremely nerve
wracking and scary.
And I was closeted for a longtime.
And coming out happens manytimes for people.
Like when I got my firstteaching job, I pretended to be
straight for a while, like justflat out pretended to be a
(09:33):
straight person because I wasworried about folks finding out.
And It kind of feels like in2025, we're living in an era
like that again.
It feels quite a bit nervewracking.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
I would agree with you.
I think, you know, when I thinkabout the pieces of my own
coming out that didn't go well,I really hoped that By now, we
would be in a place where otheryoung people wouldn't have to
have the same kinds ofconversations that you and I had
to have then.
You know, you and I both have alittle bit of a religious
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
thread.
A little?
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Okay, I have a thread.
Perhaps you have maybe more of atapestry, shall we say?
A
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
head covering, if you will, of history.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Brilliant.
But, you know, thinking about,for example, some of those
conversations that at least onmy end did Not go well.
And I really, you know, I hopedfor a world by now in which
young people were able tonavigate those conversations
differently or be supported moreeffectively.
(10:39):
And unfortunately, you know,we're just in a place where the
pendulum has kind of swung backa little bit in ways that are
hard and challenging.
UNKNOWN (10:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
we should probably define the word transgender.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
What does it mean to be transgender?
So you might hear people use theword cisgender, and there's been
some yelling about what thatword means, but cisgender
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
really edits court.
It's always a great place tostart.
How much are we yelling about aword?
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
So cisgender just means that you're assigned sex
at birth.
When you were born into theworld and the doctor said it's a
girl, that matches how you feeland how you navigate the world.
folks who are transgender in anynumber of ways often their
gender identity or genderexpression don't always match
(11:28):
their assigned sex at birth andthat looks like a broad spectrum
of things that can mean you aretransgender there are folks who
identify as non-binary someaning they don't really
identify as male or femalethere's a lot of ground there
and I will just say it is aunique uniquely Western approach
(11:50):
to gender that is as binary asthe one many of us here in the
United States are used tonavigating.
Many cultures the world over fora very long time have held a
much more expansive view ofgender and an understanding that
gender is a spectrum rather thana binary.
(12:10):
And we are still on our journeyhere in the Western world.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
So that's Probably a good place to start is, what
does the word transgender mean?
The next place to go is, whatdoes it mean to transition?
Like, do you fill out a form?
What form do you fill out tosay, I have transitioned?
How official is it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Yeah.
So typically, when someone...
begins to explore thepossibility of a transition,
that first begins socially.
So they might experiment withwhat I would use the phrase
gender expression.
So when we talk about genderidentity and gender expression
at Outright, identity is yourarrow that points inward.
(12:54):
Expression is your arrow thatpoints outward.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
Ooh, I love that.
Good way to describe it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Outward arrow.
And so they may begin toexperiment with their outward
arrow, their gender expression,how they dress, what they do
their hair, makeup, jewelry.
While I have not transitioned,as I came more fully into my own
identity as an adult, one of thethings I really grew into was a
(13:20):
gender expression that feelslike it fits who I am.
So I wear my hair long.
I love big jewelry.
I wear a lot of pink.
I am known to wear a boldlipstick on any given day.
And all of those things for meare a piece of how I present
myself to the world that feelslike who I am and the story that
I want to tell.
And so similarly, that's oftenhow folks start that process.
(13:42):
They might experiment withclothes, hair, makeup, jewelry,
etc.
It's a social piece they mightalso invite folks they know and
love to try on a new pronoun sothey might say this is a thing
I'm experimenting with pleaseuse they them pronouns for
example just one example sothose pieces are some of the
ways that that journey begins Iwant to pause here to say this
(14:06):
kind of exploration particularlyamong adolescents and teenagers
very developmentally appropriatevery normal and for some kids
may mean a transition.
For other kids, may not.
And both of those things arewonderful and okay.
And so as much space as we canmake for kids to pick things up,
try them on, set them down, picksomething else up, try it on,
(14:29):
set it down, all of thosethings, really important to
helping create healthycontainers for our kiddos to
grow and develop and becomewhole people, not just LGBTQ
plus kids.
So the social piece is is thefirst piece.
For kids who grow into someclarity with their parents,
(14:50):
usually with a mental healthprovider, that they might like
to engage in a conversationabout medical transition, the
next step would be to meet witha gender-affirming care
specialist, typically apediatric endocrinologist who is
trained in gender-affirmingcare, who is we'll open up a
(15:14):
conversation about what we mightcall HRT or hormone replacement
therapy options, and thatincludes puberty blockers.
So again, there's been a lot ofyelling about puberty
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
blockers.
So much yelling.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
So much yelling.
And what a puberty blocker is atits core, I am not a doctor, I
only play one on TV, so this isas much as I'm going to say
about this, is it is amedication prescribed by a
trained physician that delaysAnd you can imagine if you were
an adolescent or an earlyteenager who is struggling with
(15:50):
questions around your genderidentity, that inward facing
arrow, and you want some timeand space to continue to go to
therapy, to explore thosethings, to pursue appropriate
medical care with your provider,your parent, your caregiver, and
your support system, that's agreat tool to be able to say, we
(16:11):
will hit pause so you can youhave the time and the space you
need to pursue appropriatemedical care and appropriate
supports.
So that's how that journeybegins, is it begins socially.
It begins with the people aroundyou, pronoun use, gender
expression.
Name, sometimes a name.
Name, sometimes.
Again, I can't tell you thenumber of adolescents and
(16:33):
teenagers I know who've pickedup and tried on a name two or
three times before they find theright one or go back to–
Whatever their birth name was,or in some cases, try one on and
say, oh, there it is.
Like, that's my name.
That's the name that fits me.
And for some kids, they thenpursue medical care, which is
(16:54):
age appropriate, rigorouslyvetted gold standard care, or
They may not.
And both of those things areokay and good and healthy.
But we want every kiddo to haveaccess to the care that they
need to be whole and fullythere.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
There are folks who are transgender who have not had
surgery and will never havesurgery.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
There are individuals who are transgender
who have not been on hormonetherapy and will never be on
hormone therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
And there are people who are transgender who have not
changed their name and willnever change their name.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
So what I'm saying is the paperwork would be too
complicated to be able to say, Iam officially.
Too many checkboxes.
It would be too challenging tomark it all off.
So what is the deal with...
with people and how they viewtransgender folks.
What is happening out there,Heidi?
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
I really believe a piece of what is happening right
now is the moral panic of ourmoment.
We've seen this happen over andover again through the years.
We've seen this targeted at gayand lesbian folks.
We've seen this targeted.
We're seeing this in a deep,profoundly harmful way with
immigrant and refugeecommunities and folks who are
(18:14):
not white right now.
And this particular group,Transgender kids in particular
certainly impacts on transadults I want to be really clear
I know this is this impactstrans folk of all ages but my
heartbeat in this work is kiddosand so I will you know we'll say
for young people in particular Ialso really think there's a
(18:35):
piece here about these folks area little bit powerless you know
in the sense that they can'tvote they can't impact decision
making they are under the careof an adult essentially here and
so So it is very easy in someways for folks in power to say,
well, we don't want this tohappen.
(18:55):
We're afraid of it.
So we're going to target you andmake these decisions because
there isn't anything you can doto fight back to us.
I think there is also a piecehere that trans folk, especially
transgender young people, reallyscare some adults because there
are folks who are significantlymore comfortable with there is
(19:18):
pink and there is blue and thereis nothing in between there is A
and there is B there is no grayspace in the middle and trans
folk especially trans youngpeople are showing us that
another world is possible theyare showing us that in fact
gender is a spectrum thatidentity is a beautiful collage
(19:39):
of possibility and it isexploding the binaries that many
of us as adults learn to liveour lives by and if you're not
prepared for that It'sterrifying.
I want to be really clear thatis not a justification.
That does not mean what ishappening is okay.
But I do think that's a factorhere.
I think there's a real group ofadults looking at these kids who
(20:02):
are like, oh boy, suddenlyeverything I thought I knew
feels very shaky and totallyundone.
And I don't know how to copewith it.
So let's put it back in the box.
These are children.
We have really reduced thisgroup as a whole to a political
casualty or a set of politicaltalking points.
And I never want that for anygroup of people, but especially
(20:25):
so for a group of kids.
And so there's a lot of belief,right, that transgender girls
are infiltrating sports teams orposing a risk to other kids'
safety as one example.
And And those things just aren'ttrue in the way that they're
being talked about.
(20:45):
They want the same things thatkids you listener might know and
love also want.
And they're actually not scaryat all.
They're incredible, funny,thoughtful, vibrant, sometimes
awkward teenagers like all of usare or were.
Every teenager.
I
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
want to talk about some of the questions people
have asked you and me.
Okay.
Before we get into the weeds ofwhat is happening in New
Hampshire specifically, maybe weneed to answer some of these
questions that folks have asked.
We've done presentationstogether and we've set up the
presentation as like, we knowyou are going to have questions
and you can ask us and we're notgoing to yell at you.
(21:25):
Bonus.
Not only can you ask us thequestion, but we're not even
going to yell at you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah.
Because people genuinely...
Right.
And a lot of folks have goodintentions and just maybe don't
have the language yet or, again,don't have the experience or the
firsthand knowledge.
And so we're on a podcast and wewouldn't yell at you in person
anyway.
Not every queer person feelsthis way, folks.
(21:52):
Not everyone is going to takethe questions.
But Heidi and I do.
UNKNOWN (21:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
And we will.
And so I think maybe we cananswer some of these questions
here on the pod.
What do you think?
I
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
love it.
Let's
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
do it.
Let's do it.
Let's maybe start with an easyone.
Why are we suddenly hearingabout transgender people so
much?
Where do they come from?
I never heard about it before.
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Listen, we have great data.
If you look over, particularlyif you break down
generationally, how many folksidentify as lesbian, gay,
bisexual, transgender, queer, wehave some increasingly good data
that generationally thosenumbers have increased, right?
As you look at youngergenerations, particularly I
would say millennials, Gen Z,the generation behind Gen Z, I
(22:38):
never get their marker right.
So young people, I love you somuch.
Don't ask me what yourgeneration is.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
You'll tell us, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
It is because we have created a culture in which
folks feel safe and able to beseen and have access to the
supports that they need.
And when you do that, numbersnaturally increase because folks
feel safer to live fully as whothey are and to be out in the
world.
So it isn't actually that thereare more people.
(23:23):
It is that there are more peoplewho feel safe, seen, heard, and
able to be themselves.
There was a similar–
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
feeling when folks started coming out as gay
lesbian queer of like suddenlywhere did all these gay people
come from it's like they werealways here but we're you know
as we have evolved as a societythere have been more That's
right.
(23:54):
Amen.
(24:14):
All right.
That was the first question.
That was an easy one.
I'm going to start throwing youcurveballs, Heidi.
Get ready.
Okay.
All right.
Here's another one we've heard alot.
When I was young, I was confusedabout a lot of things.
Aren't you afraid that pushingkids to do things like take
hormones would be too soonbefore they really know who they
are?
Shouldn't we be worried thatkids are going to make decisions
(24:36):
before they really even know whothey are yet?
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
That's a great question.
And I think folks sometimesbristle when they hear people
ask a question like this, but Ithink it comes from, most of the
time anyway, it comes from awell-intended place.
So I want to say a few things.
The first of which is I justwant to be really clear.
No one is pushing children intomedical care that they don't
(24:59):
need or that is not appropriatefor them.
I'll invite you to talk to anynumber of trans young people and
they will tell you about themany, many appointments that
they have and the many, manytimes they go through what it
would mean, for example, tostart a puberty blocker and all
of the conversations andquestions that have to happen
there.
(25:19):
So I just want to say thatfirst.
Second, listener, I want toinvite you to just go inward for
a minute and to think about yourown growing up experience.
How old were you the first timeyou felt like someone really
didn't understand you?
How old were you the first timean adult in your life you felt
(25:39):
like really didn't get you orreally didn't know who you were?
Just sit with that question fora minute.
Because I suspect for a lot ofus, we really, really reflect
there.
We were pretty young, probably,the first time that that was
true.
And so we, if we are given thesupports and given the room to
(26:02):
know ourselves as even veryyoung people...
we often have a lot of clarityabout who we are or what we hope
for or what we want in life.
And so I am a firm believer thatgiving kids great scaffolding,
great supports, and great carehelps them to grow up to be
(26:24):
whole and healthy young adultsand adults.
And that may or may not looklike it did when they were six.
That's true for all of us.
But I think this question,right, is really rooted when
people ask me this question,what I hear them saying to me
is, I really care about kids.
And I'm really worried aboutwhat's happening here, again,
(26:46):
because there's a lot ofrhetoric and things flying
around out here.
And in my best moments, one ofthe things I might say back is
like, hey, I hear you reallycare about kids.
I really care about kids, too.
Can we start there?
Like, can we start from a placeof I see you're careful?
If we let
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
people use bathrooms based on their gender identity,
won't men pretend to be women togo into women's bathrooms?
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
That's a very casual, easy question, Liz.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Classic, simple question.
No
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
layers there at all.
Okay.
So the first thing I'm going tosay, and I'm going to preface
this by saying how I respondhere may sound pretty direct and
or a little bit flip almost, andI don't intend for it to sound
like I'm blowing off thequestion.
But if an adult man is in anyway using an identity to get
(27:53):
into a women's room to causeharm, what What folks are
actually worried about there, orwhat folks are actually afraid
of there, is the behavior ofcisgender men.
That actually doesn't haveanything to do with trans folk,
and in particular, trans women.
That is about someone behavingin a predatory way.
And what you are worried aboutthere is the behavior of a man.
(28:16):
That is not about someone tryingto use the bathroom that most
appropriately aligns with theirgender identity.
It's about causing harm, period.
Every single transgender personthat I know wants to go to the
bathroom, use the restroom inpeace, wash their hands, and be
on their way without beingharassed.
Harassed or often withouttalking to other people.
(28:36):
I don't know about you.
I don't like to chat with peoplewhen I'm
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
in the bathroom.
I do not want to go into abathroom with someone I know in
general.
Correct.
There's no need to do any chitchat.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
That's right.
And so the same is true for ourtrans kin.
And I would say acutely so inthis era when safety may feel
really more challenging or theymay feel like it is unsafe.
Right.
to use a restroom in public.
But yet what you are worriedabout in that example, folks, is
the behavior, the predatorybehavior of, in this case, men
(29:10):
who are looking to cause harmthat doesn't actually have
anything to do with transgenderwomen.
And to my knowledge, at least inthe state of New Hampshire, I am
not familiar with any examplesof folks feigning identity to
get into a bathroom or a lockerroom, etc.
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
When you are talking about passing laws that ban
transgender individuals fromusing the bathroom that
corresponds with their gender,you're setting them up to be in
an unsafe situation.
And it does not actually solvethe problem that you think might
exist.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
That's right.
It solves actually no problems
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
at all.
No problems solved.
And
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
creates more problems.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
Yes.
Creates problems, solves zeroproblems is what's happening
with those types of laws.
All right.
Let's go back to kids.
With all this transgender talk,Are we confusing kids in
schools?
Like if we talk abouttransgender people and families
that have two moms or two dads,if we're doing those things in
schools, aren't we confusingkids?
If we're talking about this inschools, are we making kids
(30:12):
transgender?
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
We sure
SPEAKER_00 (30:14):
are
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
not, is the answer to your question.
All the data tells us that kidshave better outcomes in the
classroom when they seethemselves represented in the
content that's being taught.
Whether that is about racialidentity, sexual orientation,
gender identity, familycomposition.
(30:35):
I say that as a kid who camefrom a single parent household.
And at the time I was in school,very little actually
representation in books, movies,et cetera, of households that
looked like mine.
Thankfully, that's much moretrue now.
We have good data now that tellsus kids do better in school when
they see themselves representedin what's happening in the
(30:57):
classroom.
Nothing that's happening in aclassroom is making a kid a
particular identity.
And I, again, I'm going toassume a best intention here,
right, that somebody might askthat question and genuinely
wonder.
Yeah.
reading this book or seeing thismovie or experiencing this
content in the classroom and Ijust wonder about this and just
(31:21):
know that People who are muchsmarter than me have researched
this and looked into it, and weknow really clearly the only
thing it does is create a senseof safety and well-being, which
helps kids learn better andhelps them be more fully who
they are.
I'll also just say that the flipside of that question is if
there are not books in aclassroom that represent
(31:43):
someone's identity, family,etc., it will also not make a
kiddo not those things.
It will not make a kiddo notqueer or not trans.
it will just cause furtherfeelings of isolation or a worry
that something is wrong withthem.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
The other thing I will say is,as a former teacher, getting my
students to do their homeworkwas a large task.
Having them submit their essayson time was a task.
That's right.
Asking them to take notes fromthe board, if it's on the board,
I want you to write it down in anotebook, was a task.
(32:18):
So I am in complete agreementthat just having a book or
reading a story or talking aboutqueer folks is not going to then
make the students happy.
queer that is not how that worksall right well we get into the
sports question it is a big bigquestion that comes up a lot
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
ready
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
why should transgender girls play sports on
girls teams are girls going tobe unsafe if transgender girls
are on their teams or competingagainst them
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
So firstly, transgender girls should
participate on girls' sportsteams because transgender girls
are girls, period.
Now, what often underlies thatquestion, in my experience, are
two things.
Concerns about safety andconcerns about fairness.
I'm going to start there becauseyou and I both know and love...
(33:17):
A couple of very tall boys.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Very tall.
SPEAKER_01 (33:19):
One of whom in the sixth grade was nearly six feet
tall and would step onto asports field and be a literal
head and shoulders.
SPEAKER_00 (33:30):
Minimum.
Above every
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
other kid.
Like could pick him out fromacross a ball field.
Yes.
UNKNOWN (33:36):
And that's in some ways, someone might say that's
not fair.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
There might be a kid on the team who has had access
to paid sports.
Private coaching or lessonsbecause they have more financial
resources.
(34:16):
They will never be fullybalanced.
They will always be unfair.
And so there's that piece, andthat often goes in conversation
with this safety piece, right?
Like, well, this girl who playson this team, because, for
example, someone might worry shedid not go through this same
puberty process as someone whowas assigned female at birth.
(34:40):
So there's a safety concernthere, right?
And again, I would suggest toyou that the girls on that team
will face any number ofcompetitors who may be taller
than them, bigger than them,etc.
But also, there's also oftenthere a lack of understanding
about actually what the medicalprocess is for a transgender
girl who is still in her pubertyand teenage years.
(35:02):
Typically, most trans girls arestarting a puberty blocker
before they enter into whatsociety might talk about as a
male puberty process.
And so there isn't, for example,a skewed or disproportionately
large amount of testosterone orthings that people may be
(35:23):
concerned about there.
Listen, listener, we might begiving you more information than
you want to know here, but I amapproaching perimenopause.
And I am just here to tell youthat estrogen is not a
performance enhancing drug,folks.
I say that to
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
say...
We can do an ad forperimenopause.
I love talking aboutperimenopause.
There are signals that you mightstart needing to think about
perimenopause.
One of them being, if you wentto the mall in the 90s.
SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
If you went to the mall.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
It might be time to start thinking about
perimenopause.
SPEAKER_01 (35:55):
I say all of that to say...
There's both a lack ofunderstanding, I think, truly
sometimes around the scientificpieces and the medical pieces,
but also if it were really aboutsafety, if it were really about
fairness, we would be talkingabout all of these other pieces.
And interestingly, we never do.
This
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
used to be.
That the school districts or thesports association for the state
or for the league, they havepolicies and rules because they
know the kids who are playing.
They know these individuals andthe transgender girls who are
playing sports.
The very few number oftransgender girls who are
(36:36):
playing sports, very few, alltheir friends know that they are
girls.
Their teachers know they'regirls.
Their coaches know they'regirls.
Their parents know that they aregirls.
And to say that they can't playon the girls' team is, in some
cases, effectively outing themas transgender because some
transgender girls do not need tocome out as transgender because
(36:59):
they're only known as girls andforcing them to play on a team
that has nothing to do with whothey are if they were forced to
play on boys' teams.
That's right.
So there were...
Policies set at the local levelin a state where we care so much
about local control.
There used to be policies likethat.
And there has since been a stateban on transgender girls being
(37:23):
able to play on girls' teams inmiddle school and high school.
So, Heidi, I invited you herebecause the podcast is called
New Hampshire Has Issues.
What's the issue?
What are we facing in NewHampshire when it comes to the
LGBTQ plus community?
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Very calm legislative season, nothing
going on.
Just kidding.
That was a joke.
So we're in a really hardchapter in New Hampshire.
I won't lie to folks here.
The last couple of legislativesessions in particular have been
really difficult.
Last legislative season, we sawthe first anti-trans bill in New
Hampshire history.
(37:59):
Two of them signed into law.
And going into this session, weknew it would be tough, and it
was.
It's been very, very difficultand painful.
We have bills right now.
that are headed to the desk ofGovernor Kelly Ayotte.
As of today, Friday, July 4th at1.07 p.m., she has not yet acted
(38:20):
on those bills, HB 377 and HB712, both of which seek to
restrict age-appropriate,well-vetted medical care for
minors in conjunction with theirparents and caregivers.
It's really painful anddifficult, and we're seeing a
number of bills targeting thingslike classroom curriculums
(38:41):
books, HB 324, also on the wayto the governor's desk is
functionally a book ban.
It would allow anybody for anyreason, including folks who
don't live in your schooldistrict to challenge a book
within that district.
There are real risks to oureducators.
And so right, all of thesethings go hand in hand, because
(39:02):
they are all a coordinatedattack on multiple marginalized
identities on folks, on blackfolks, brown folks, immigrants,
Mm-hmm.
(39:36):
Like we are the live free or diestate.
We are a state who has pridedourselves for many, many years
on live and let live andprotecting individual liberties.
And this is not that.
Like we can, you know, wecertainly can no longer say we
are the state that values localcontrol and individual freedoms
(39:57):
while passing this kind oflegislation that is frankly not
from New Hampshire.
It's all part of a national
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
playbook.
You mentioned the bans on healthcare for patients under 18 who
have parental consent.
All of this health care requiresparental consent.
That's right.
The book ban that is on its wayto the governor's desk as of
when we're recording this onJuly 4th.
(40:24):
And there's also a bill thatwould allow businesses to
discriminate against transgenderpeople, adults, from using the
bathroom that they wouldtypically use based on their
gender.
Why is this happening in thelive free or die state?
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
So there's a few factors at play here.
You know, the first of which iswhat I mentioned before.
This is a national playbook.
This is legislation we areseeing trotted out in state
houses around the country,bankrolled and funded by
national organizations who seekto legislate trans people out of
public life.
We did not originate this movehere in New Hampshire.
(41:00):
This is coming from well-fundednational movements.
In New Hampshire, we have aparticularly tricky calculus
here with Great.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
Subscribe
SPEAKER_01 (41:20):
to New Hampshire's Got Issues and make that a
priority listen, because it's ahuge piece of the political
landscape in the last fiveyears, especially in New
Hampshire.
And then the third thing I willname here is this national
movement around white Christiannationalism that we have
certainly seen at play here.
here in New Hampshire,particularly over the last
(41:42):
number of years, as well, whichis really rooted in the belief
that America was founded as awhite Christian nation.
Spoiler alert, that is not thecase.
And so anybody who falls outsideof a narrowly defined set of
ideals and beliefs, etc, isdeemed out of order.
(42:05):
And so these are folks whoreally seek to try to to build
the country in their own image,so to speak, rather than honor
the values of our founders whocame here seeking freedom from
tyranny and freedom to worship,etc.
But the white Christiannationalism piece has had a
profound impact on NewHampshire.
And I'll just give a shout outto our colleagues at the New
(42:26):
Hampshire Council of Churchesand others who are really doing
some work in this arena toeducate and combat what's been
happening here.
SPEAKER_00 (42:33):
What are people supposed to do, Heidi?
It's July 4th, 2025.
We've got theseanti-transgender, anti-LGBTQ
bills heading to GovernorAyotte's desk.
We don't know when they're goingto arrive at her desk, to be
clear.
A listener has just heard thesequestions and answers, and the
(42:53):
wheels are turning.
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
Now
SPEAKER_00 (42:56):
what?
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
So I'm going to give you three action
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
steps here.
One.
SPEAKER_01 (43:03):
You may call or email Governor Ayotte if you are
able to call.
I will encourage you to do that.
603-271-2121.
The ACLU of New Hampshire alsohas some tools around these
bills that will help prompt youthrough how to send an email.
So shout out ACLU.
We'll link those in the shownotes.
But please contact GovernorAyotte assuming these bills have
(43:27):
not already been signed at thetime this goes to air.
Number two, if you are lookingto tangibly support LGBTQ plus
youth and their families in NewHampshire.
I will invite you to donate toNew Hampshire Outright,
particularly to our mutual aidfund.
This is new work that we aredoing this year that meets
(43:48):
tangible needs for LGBTQ plusyoung people and their families
in New Hampshire.
These are small gifts given tomeet a direct need, whether
around healthcare, clothing,summer camp, the list is long.
So You can find that informationon our website, nhoutright.org.
Those are your first two.
(44:09):
Your third action step isactually read Abby Maxwell's
book.
If you are looking for areal-life story of a parent and
a kiddo based here in NewHampshire that cuts through the
noise and that tells a realstory in a way that is
accessible, please pick upAbby's book, One Day I'll Grow
(44:29):
Up and Be a Beautiful Woman.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Three actions.
One of them will take you aboutfive minutes.
The second one will take youabout two minutes.
And the third one depends on howfast you read, but it will be
worth it for sure.
It's an excellent, excellentbook.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
You know, the thing I'll close with, we've sort of
touched on this a little bit.
And I just want to say assomebody on the ground who sees
and knows and loves and workswith trans kids.
They are awesome, exceptional,beautiful, funny, smart kids.
And they are kids that you knowand kids that you love, that you
(45:05):
see in the local grocery store,that go to school with your
kids, that work the counter atyour ice cream shop, that hand
you your book at the publiclibrary, and on and on.
And so if you find yourselfgetting caught in these talking
points, these are real kids.
And the kids in your communityneed to see You.
Yeah.
(45:54):
And that for me is the shiftfrom acceptance to belonging,
right?
When you anticipate before thereis ever someone right in front
of you, how can I care for thisperson?
How can I make them safe?
How can I communicate that I'man ally and I want to be on your
team?
SPEAKER_00 (46:13):
Heidi, we debunked a lot of myths.
And I will invite the listener.
If you have a question that wehaven't covered, send it in.
I'm happy to answer questions tothe best of my ability.
Actually, that's why I have thiswhole podcast, right?
Like it's kind of my thing.
If you have a question andyou're like, oh man, I wish they
had covered this.
Like just send me an email.
New Hampshire has issues atgmail.com.
(46:33):
It is okay.
I answer every email that I get.
I'll tell you that.
Unless you're hostile.
I'm not going to answer that.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Once a teacher, always a teacher.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Truly.
I've told my students that backwhen I was a teacher.
I was like, once you're Englishteacher, I am always your
English teacher.
It's just the reality.
The other great story, ofcourse, is telling my cousin
(47:02):
that I was gay and her immediatereaction was, I should have
known because when we were inmiddle school, you said you had
a crush on Jim Carrey and nobodyhas a crush on Jim Carrey.
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
I had forgotten about that one.
Having listeners, I have metLiz's cousin who is incredible
and I can hear that in hervoice.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
She still brings it up.
No one has a crush on JimCarrey.
I should have known.
I want to hear the best coming out story.
Okay, listener, we're both queerfolks.
So let's start.
Spoiler alert, gay things ahead.
Surprise! This is a coming outepisode as well.
If you don't know that I'm gay,even though I talk about my wife
Molly all the time.
This is Breaking News.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
Where's our banner?
Breaking News.
Liz Canada and HeidiCarrington-Heath.
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Queer.
UNKNOWN (00:27):
Queer.
SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the
podcast that dares to ask, whyis anyone thinking about
bathrooms this much?
All right, Heidi, how aboutyours?
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the
podcast that dares to ask, whoreally gets to live free in the
live free or die state?
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
So perfect.
Well, I am your host, LizCanada.
And joining me today is theexecutive director of New
Hampshire Outright, HeidiCarrington-Heath.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
glad to be here.
Tell me about your organization,New Hampshire Outright.
What do you all do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Yes, so New Hampshire Outright is New
Hampshire's oldest LGBTQ plusorganization, and we serve,
support, and advocate for LGBTQplus youth and their families
across the state of NewHampshire.
32 years ago, a group of parentsand caregivers gathered at the
University of New Hampshire andsaid, there's all these
(01:36):
resources for parents andcaregivers, but we're really
lacking in resources for kidsonline.
What can we do about that?
And out of that initialconversation, then Seacoast
Outright, now New HampshireOutright was born.
And I like to think we've heldon to a little bit of that
scrappy organizing spirit, evenas we've grown over the years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Let's give a little permission to a listener,
because what I have learned inmy time working in
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
New
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Hampshire or working in advocacy spaces or just
existing in this world is isthat sometimes folks just don't
understand because they have noexperience, no firsthand
experience.
And so, listener, this is yourpermission and invitation that
if this is the first time youhave heard folks talk about
(02:24):
transgender people, transgendergirls, transgender boys, LGBTQ
issues, great.
I'm so glad you're here.
That's incredible.
So take it all in.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yes, I will second that.
Hi, listener.
I'm Heidi.
I use she, her pronouns.
Welcome to this conversation.
And totally agreed, Liz.
In my experience working in NewHampshire and elsewhere across
the country, I've been in LGBTQplus movement work now for over
20 years.
And when When folks don'tunderstand something or
(02:56):
something feels new or scary,they might have questions and
feel like they can't ask them.
Or they might feel, have areally hard time parsing out
what's real, right?
What is true versus what is athing I've been told, or just
not understand.
And all of those things areokay.
And we want to invite you toengage with us and listen and be
(03:17):
part of this conversation fromwhere you are.
So welcome.
We're glad you're here.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
We are so glad you're here.
We have a lot to cover.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
We have a lot to cover.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
We have a lot to cover, tragically.
Let's start with a simplequestion.
What is your favorite coming outstory of your own self?
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
So I think I'll start at least with sort of my
initial coming out story, bothbecause I feel like it so deeply
exemplifies who my mom is in theworld and also a real trait of
one young Heidi CarringtonHeath.
So my mother would tell you thatI saved up all of my best and
hardest conversations to have inthe car.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
That is such a kid thing to do for a parent.
I'm going to wait and you'regoing to be trapped in this
vehicle and I'm going to ask youquestions.
questions and there's nowhereyou can run because you are
driving it's so true oh my god
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
hi mom if you're listening
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
mom please listen we'll send it to her we'll make
sure she gets the episode
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
So I came out initially my first year of
college.
You know, I had had moved out ofhome, gone away to school, sort
of started to get a little bitof independence under my wing.
And like a good late 90s orearly 2000s after school
special, I fell in love with mybest friend at college.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
Tale as old as time.
Truly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
You know, at the end of this turned out to be
straight, which so oftenhappens.
Tell us all this time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Times two.
Yes.
Yes.
UNKNOWN (04:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
But she was also sort of my launch, as it were,
into the world as a queer woman.
And having that experience offalling in love for the first
time and really coming tounderstand these feelings that I
had had and not been able to putany language around.
Because when we were younger, wehad much less representation in
(05:14):
books and media and classrooms.
It was like, oh, that's why whenall of my friends Yeah.
Yeah.
(05:42):
She'll
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
never crack the code.
She'll never figure this oneout.
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
And so we were driving to the mall.
One of my first weekends homefrom college, my first year of
school, she was driving.
She said to me, so...
I have a question.
And instantly, everything in mybody knew what was coming.
(06:08):
I was like, oh
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
boy.
She wasn't like, where do youwant to go in the food court?
That was not the question shewas going to ask.
Should we define a mall for thelistener?
We'll let them look it up.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
And she said, so...
You've brought Susie, I'll callher Susie, you've brought Susie
home with you a couple of timesnow.
And I sort of sighed and said,yes, mom.
And she said, and you'recertainly, long pause,
physically closer with her thanyou are with your other friends.
Long pause.
Yes, mom.
(06:39):
Long pause.
So I'm just wondering, are youmore than friends?
And I was like, yes, mom.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
So she trapped you in the car for this one.
Yeah.
This is good.
I
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
was like, I see you using my own tools here, Mama.
And then she said the thing thatI hope for every kid to hear
when this conversation happens,however it happens, which is I
just wanted to make sure youweren't not telling me because
you worried that I wouldn't loveyou.
Or you worried that I would beupset.
Good job, Mama.
Because I am not upset.
UNKNOWN (07:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
And I do love you and I'll always be here for you.
And like this, this is what Iwant for every kid when they
come out as a parent or acaregiver on the other side of
the conversation, ready to meetthem there.
I was, as 18 year olds reallytend to be, I was very moody and
a little annoyed about thisconversation, but also felt very
loved and very supported.
(07:34):
So thanks, mom.
I love you a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Good job, mom.
What a great model to put outthere.
My favorite coming out story.
story of my own was with my bestfriend, not the best friend I
was in love with from highschool.
I had been away at college.
You know, when I would come backhome, my friends and I would go
to the diner that we always usedto go to in high school, and we
(08:00):
were drinking a Coffee at 10.30p.m.
I literally can't drink coffeenow after 12 p.m.
It's a danger zone.
I will be up for three days if Ido that.
But we were drinking coffee andhaving fries with gravy.
Welcome to New Jersey, everyone.
We were sitting in the smokingsection of the diner because she
(08:27):
was a smoker and I...
couldn't really even say thewords out loud and i was like i
am and i like just started likewhispering it i'm like a lesbian
and i wouldn't even use thatword for myself now but like
then in like 2001 whatever itwas yeah same and her reaction
(08:48):
was oh my god I've always wanteda lesbian friend.
And I was like, you've had one.
That's been me this whole time.
Yay.
So it was just extremely sweet.
I was so nervous about saying itout loud.
And I really hadn't ever said itout loud.
And saying it to her was great.
(09:10):
You and I grew up in an erawhere even coming out as queer
folks, maybe I'll just speak formyself, was extremely nerve
wracking and scary.
And I was closeted for a longtime.
And coming out happens manytimes for people.
Like when I got my firstteaching job, I pretended to be
straight for a while, like justflat out pretended to be a
(09:33):
straight person because I wasworried about folks finding out.
And It kind of feels like in2025, we're living in an era
like that again.
It feels quite a bit nervewracking.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
I would agree with you.
I think, you know, when I thinkabout the pieces of my own
coming out that didn't go well,I really hoped that By now, we
would be in a place where otheryoung people wouldn't have to
have the same kinds ofconversations that you and I had
to have then.
You know, you and I both have alittle bit of a religious
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
thread.
A little?
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Okay, I have a thread.
Perhaps you have maybe more of atapestry, shall we say?
A
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
head covering, if you will, of history.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Brilliant.
But, you know, thinking about,for example, some of those
conversations that at least onmy end did Not go well.
And I really, you know, I hopedfor a world by now in which
young people were able tonavigate those conversations
differently or be supported moreeffectively.
(10:39):
And unfortunately, you know,we're just in a place where the
pendulum has kind of swung backa little bit in ways that are
hard and challenging.
UNKNOWN (10:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
we should probably define the word transgender.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
What does it mean to be transgender?
So you might hear people use theword cisgender, and there's been
some yelling about what thatword means, but cisgender
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
really edits court.
It's always a great place tostart.
How much are we yelling about aword?
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
So cisgender just means that you're assigned sex
at birth.
When you were born into theworld and the doctor said it's a
girl, that matches how you feeland how you navigate the world.
folks who are transgender in anynumber of ways often their
gender identity or genderexpression don't always match
(11:28):
their assigned sex at birth andthat looks like a broad spectrum
of things that can mean you aretransgender there are folks who
identify as non-binary someaning they don't really
identify as male or femalethere's a lot of ground there
and I will just say it is aunique uniquely Western approach
(11:50):
to gender that is as binary asthe one many of us here in the
United States are used tonavigating.
Many cultures the world over fora very long time have held a
much more expansive view ofgender and an understanding that
gender is a spectrum rather thana binary.
(12:10):
And we are still on our journeyhere in the Western world.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
So that's Probably a good place to start is, what
does the word transgender mean?
The next place to go is, whatdoes it mean to transition?
Like, do you fill out a form?
What form do you fill out tosay, I have transitioned?
How official is it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Yeah.
So typically, when someone...
begins to explore thepossibility of a transition,
that first begins socially.
So they might experiment withwhat I would use the phrase
gender expression.
So when we talk about genderidentity and gender expression
at Outright, identity is yourarrow that points inward.
(12:54):
Expression is your arrow thatpoints outward.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
Ooh, I love that.
Good way to describe it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Outward arrow.
And so they may begin toexperiment with their outward
arrow, their gender expression,how they dress, what they do
their hair, makeup, jewelry.
While I have not transitioned,as I came more fully into my own
identity as an adult, one of thethings I really grew into was a
(13:20):
gender expression that feelslike it fits who I am.
So I wear my hair long.
I love big jewelry.
I wear a lot of pink.
I am known to wear a boldlipstick on any given day.
And all of those things for meare a piece of how I present
myself to the world that feelslike who I am and the story that
I want to tell.
And so similarly, that's oftenhow folks start that process.
(13:42):
They might experiment withclothes, hair, makeup, jewelry,
etc.
It's a social piece they mightalso invite folks they know and
love to try on a new pronoun sothey might say this is a thing
I'm experimenting with pleaseuse they them pronouns for
example just one example sothose pieces are some of the
ways that that journey begins Iwant to pause here to say this
(14:06):
kind of exploration particularlyamong adolescents and teenagers
very developmentally appropriatevery normal and for some kids
may mean a transition.
For other kids, may not.
And both of those things arewonderful and okay.
And so as much space as we canmake for kids to pick things up,
try them on, set them down, picksomething else up, try it on,
(14:29):
set it down, all of thosethings, really important to
helping create healthycontainers for our kiddos to
grow and develop and becomewhole people, not just LGBTQ
plus kids.
So the social piece is is thefirst piece.
For kids who grow into someclarity with their parents,
(14:50):
usually with a mental healthprovider, that they might like
to engage in a conversationabout medical transition, the
next step would be to meet witha gender-affirming care
specialist, typically apediatric endocrinologist who is
trained in gender-affirmingcare, who is we'll open up a
(15:14):
conversation about what we mightcall HRT or hormone replacement
therapy options, and thatincludes puberty blockers.
So again, there's been a lot ofyelling about puberty
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
blockers.
So much yelling.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
So much yelling.
And what a puberty blocker is atits core, I am not a doctor, I
only play one on TV, so this isas much as I'm going to say
about this, is it is amedication prescribed by a
trained physician that delaysAnd you can imagine if you were
an adolescent or an earlyteenager who is struggling with
(15:50):
questions around your genderidentity, that inward facing
arrow, and you want some timeand space to continue to go to
therapy, to explore thosethings, to pursue appropriate
medical care with your provider,your parent, your caregiver, and
your support system, that's agreat tool to be able to say, we
(16:11):
will hit pause so you can youhave the time and the space you
need to pursue appropriatemedical care and appropriate
supports.
So that's how that journeybegins, is it begins socially.
It begins with the people aroundyou, pronoun use, gender
expression.
Name, sometimes a name.
Name, sometimes.
Again, I can't tell you thenumber of adolescents and
(16:33):
teenagers I know who've pickedup and tried on a name two or
three times before they find theright one or go back to–
Whatever their birth name was,or in some cases, try one on and
say, oh, there it is.
Like, that's my name.
That's the name that fits me.
And for some kids, they thenpursue medical care, which is
(16:54):
age appropriate, rigorouslyvetted gold standard care, or
They may not.
And both of those things areokay and good and healthy.
But we want every kiddo to haveaccess to the care that they
need to be whole and fullythere.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
There are folks who are transgender who have not had
surgery and will never havesurgery.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
There are individuals who are transgender
who have not been on hormonetherapy and will never be on
hormone therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
And there are people who are transgender who have not
changed their name and willnever change their name.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
So what I'm saying is the paperwork would be too
complicated to be able to say, Iam officially.
Too many checkboxes.
It would be too challenging tomark it all off.
So what is the deal with...
with people and how they viewtransgender folks.
What is happening out there,Heidi?
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
I really believe a piece of what is happening right
now is the moral panic of ourmoment.
We've seen this happen over andover again through the years.
We've seen this targeted at gayand lesbian folks.
We've seen this targeted.
We're seeing this in a deep,profoundly harmful way with
immigrant and refugeecommunities and folks who are
(18:14):
not white right now.
And this particular group,Transgender kids in particular
certainly impacts on transadults I want to be really clear
I know this is this impactstrans folk of all ages but my
heartbeat in this work is kiddosand so I will you know we'll say
for young people in particular Ialso really think there's a
(18:35):
piece here about these folks area little bit powerless you know
in the sense that they can'tvote they can't impact decision
making they are under the careof an adult essentially here and
so So it is very easy in someways for folks in power to say,
well, we don't want this tohappen.
(18:55):
We're afraid of it.
So we're going to target you andmake these decisions because
there isn't anything you can doto fight back to us.
I think there is also a piecehere that trans folk, especially
transgender young people, reallyscare some adults because there
are folks who are significantlymore comfortable with there is
(19:18):
pink and there is blue and thereis nothing in between there is A
and there is B there is no grayspace in the middle and trans
folk especially trans youngpeople are showing us that
another world is possible theyare showing us that in fact
gender is a spectrum thatidentity is a beautiful collage
(19:39):
of possibility and it isexploding the binaries that many
of us as adults learn to liveour lives by and if you're not
prepared for that It'sterrifying.
I want to be really clear thatis not a justification.
That does not mean what ishappening is okay.
But I do think that's a factorhere.
I think there's a real group ofadults looking at these kids who
(20:02):
are like, oh boy, suddenlyeverything I thought I knew
feels very shaky and totallyundone.
And I don't know how to copewith it.
So let's put it back in the box.
These are children.
We have really reduced thisgroup as a whole to a political
casualty or a set of politicaltalking points.
And I never want that for anygroup of people, but especially
(20:25):
so for a group of kids.
And so there's a lot of belief,right, that transgender girls
are infiltrating sports teams orposing a risk to other kids'
safety as one example.
And And those things just aren'ttrue in the way that they're
being talked about.
(20:45):
They want the same things thatkids you listener might know and
love also want.
And they're actually not scaryat all.
They're incredible, funny,thoughtful, vibrant, sometimes
awkward teenagers like all of usare or were.
Every teenager.
I
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
want to talk about some of the questions people
have asked you and me.
Okay.
Before we get into the weeds ofwhat is happening in New
Hampshire specifically, maybe weneed to answer some of these
questions that folks have asked.
We've done presentationstogether and we've set up the
presentation as like, we knowyou are going to have questions
and you can ask us and we're notgoing to yell at you.
(21:25):
Bonus.
Not only can you ask us thequestion, but we're not even
going to yell at you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah.
Because people genuinely...
Right.
And a lot of folks have goodintentions and just maybe don't
have the language yet or, again,don't have the experience or the
firsthand knowledge.
And so we're on a podcast and wewouldn't yell at you in person
anyway.
Not every queer person feelsthis way, folks.
(21:52):
Not everyone is going to takethe questions.
But Heidi and I do.
UNKNOWN (21:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
And we will.
And so I think maybe we cananswer some of these questions
here on the pod.
What do you think?
I
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
love it.
Let's
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
do it.
Let's do it.
Let's maybe start with an easyone.
Why are we suddenly hearingabout transgender people so
much?
Where do they come from?
I never heard about it before.
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Listen, we have great data.
If you look over, particularlyif you break down
generationally, how many folksidentify as lesbian, gay,
bisexual, transgender, queer, wehave some increasingly good data
that generationally thosenumbers have increased, right?
As you look at youngergenerations, particularly I
would say millennials, Gen Z,the generation behind Gen Z, I
(22:38):
never get their marker right.
So young people, I love you somuch.
Don't ask me what yourgeneration is.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
You'll tell us, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
It is because we have created a culture in which
folks feel safe and able to beseen and have access to the
supports that they need.
And when you do that, numbersnaturally increase because folks
feel safer to live fully as whothey are and to be out in the
world.
So it isn't actually that thereare more people.
(23:23):
It is that there are more peoplewho feel safe, seen, heard, and
able to be themselves.
There was a similar–
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
feeling when folks started coming out as gay
lesbian queer of like suddenlywhere did all these gay people
come from it's like they werealways here but we're you know
as we have evolved as a societythere have been more That's
right.
(23:54):
Amen.
(24:14):
All right.
That was the first question.
That was an easy one.
I'm going to start throwing youcurveballs, Heidi.
Get ready.
Okay.
All right.
Here's another one we've heard alot.
When I was young, I was confusedabout a lot of things.
Aren't you afraid that pushingkids to do things like take
hormones would be too soonbefore they really know who they
are?
Shouldn't we be worried thatkids are going to make decisions
(24:36):
before they really even know whothey are yet?
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
That's a great question.
And I think folks sometimesbristle when they hear people
ask a question like this, but Ithink it comes from, most of the
time anyway, it comes from awell-intended place.
So I want to say a few things.
The first of which is I justwant to be really clear.
No one is pushing children intomedical care that they don't
(24:59):
need or that is not appropriatefor them.
I'll invite you to talk to anynumber of trans young people and
they will tell you about themany, many appointments that
they have and the many, manytimes they go through what it
would mean, for example, tostart a puberty blocker and all
of the conversations andquestions that have to happen
there.
(25:19):
So I just want to say thatfirst.
Second, listener, I want toinvite you to just go inward for
a minute and to think about yourown growing up experience.
How old were you the first timeyou felt like someone really
didn't understand you?
How old were you the first timean adult in your life you felt
(25:39):
like really didn't get you orreally didn't know who you were?
Just sit with that question fora minute.
Because I suspect for a lot ofus, we really, really reflect
there.
We were pretty young, probably,the first time that that was
true.
And so we, if we are given thesupports and given the room to
(26:02):
know ourselves as even veryyoung people...
we often have a lot of clarityabout who we are or what we hope
for or what we want in life.
And so I am a firm believer thatgiving kids great scaffolding,
great supports, and great carehelps them to grow up to be
(26:24):
whole and healthy young adultsand adults.
And that may or may not looklike it did when they were six.
That's true for all of us.
But I think this question,right, is really rooted when
people ask me this question,what I hear them saying to me
is, I really care about kids.
And I'm really worried aboutwhat's happening here, again,
(26:46):
because there's a lot ofrhetoric and things flying
around out here.
And in my best moments, one ofthe things I might say back is
like, hey, I hear you reallycare about kids.
I really care about kids, too.
Can we start there?
Like, can we start from a placeof I see you're careful?
If we let
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
people use bathrooms based on their gender identity,
won't men pretend to be women togo into women's bathrooms?
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
That's a very casual, easy question, Liz.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Classic, simple question.
No
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
layers there at all.
Okay.
So the first thing I'm going tosay, and I'm going to preface
this by saying how I respondhere may sound pretty direct and
or a little bit flip almost, andI don't intend for it to sound
like I'm blowing off thequestion.
But if an adult man is in anyway using an identity to get
(27:53):
into a women's room to causeharm, what What folks are
actually worried about there, orwhat folks are actually afraid
of there, is the behavior ofcisgender men.
That actually doesn't haveanything to do with trans folk,
and in particular, trans women.
That is about someone behavingin a predatory way.
And what you are worried aboutthere is the behavior of a man.
(28:16):
That is not about someone tryingto use the bathroom that most
appropriately aligns with theirgender identity.
It's about causing harm, period.
Every single transgender personthat I know wants to go to the
bathroom, use the restroom inpeace, wash their hands, and be
on their way without beingharassed.
Harassed or often withouttalking to other people.
(28:36):
I don't know about you.
I don't like to chat with peoplewhen I'm
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
in the bathroom.
I do not want to go into abathroom with someone I know in
general.
Correct.
There's no need to do any chitchat.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
That's right.
And so the same is true for ourtrans kin.
And I would say acutely so inthis era when safety may feel
really more challenging or theymay feel like it is unsafe.
Right.
to use a restroom in public.
But yet what you are worriedabout in that example, folks, is
the behavior, the predatorybehavior of, in this case, men
(29:10):
who are looking to cause harmthat doesn't actually have
anything to do with transgenderwomen.
And to my knowledge, at least inthe state of New Hampshire, I am
not familiar with any examplesof folks feigning identity to
get into a bathroom or a lockerroom, etc.
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
When you are talking about passing laws that ban
transgender individuals fromusing the bathroom that
corresponds with their gender,you're setting them up to be in
an unsafe situation.
And it does not actually solvethe problem that you think might
exist.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
That's right.
It solves actually no problems
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
at all.
No problems solved.
And
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
creates more problems.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
Yes.
Creates problems, solves zeroproblems is what's happening
with those types of laws.
All right.
Let's go back to kids.
With all this transgender talk,Are we confusing kids in
schools?
Like if we talk abouttransgender people and families
that have two moms or two dads,if we're doing those things in
schools, aren't we confusingkids?
If we're talking about this inschools, are we making kids
(30:12):
transgender?
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
We sure
SPEAKER_00 (30:14):
are
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
not, is the answer to your question.
All the data tells us that kidshave better outcomes in the
classroom when they seethemselves represented in the
content that's being taught.
Whether that is about racialidentity, sexual orientation,
gender identity, familycomposition.
(30:35):
I say that as a kid who camefrom a single parent household.
And at the time I was in school,very little actually
representation in books, movies,et cetera, of households that
looked like mine.
Thankfully, that's much moretrue now.
We have good data now that tellsus kids do better in school when
they see themselves representedin what's happening in the
(30:57):
classroom.
Nothing that's happening in aclassroom is making a kid a
particular identity.
And I, again, I'm going toassume a best intention here,
right, that somebody might askthat question and genuinely
wonder.
Yeah.
reading this book or seeing thismovie or experiencing this
content in the classroom and Ijust wonder about this and just
(31:21):
know that People who are muchsmarter than me have researched
this and looked into it, and weknow really clearly the only
thing it does is create a senseof safety and well-being, which
helps kids learn better andhelps them be more fully who
they are.
I'll also just say that the flipside of that question is if
there are not books in aclassroom that represent
(31:43):
someone's identity, family,etc., it will also not make a
kiddo not those things.
It will not make a kiddo notqueer or not trans.
it will just cause furtherfeelings of isolation or a worry
that something is wrong withthem.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
The other thing I will say is,as a former teacher, getting my
students to do their homeworkwas a large task.
Having them submit their essayson time was a task.
That's right.
Asking them to take notes fromthe board, if it's on the board,
I want you to write it down in anotebook, was a task.
(32:18):
So I am in complete agreementthat just having a book or
reading a story or talking aboutqueer folks is not going to then
make the students happy.
queer that is not how that worksall right well we get into the
sports question it is a big bigquestion that comes up a lot
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
ready
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
why should transgender girls play sports on
girls teams are girls going tobe unsafe if transgender girls
are on their teams or competingagainst them
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
So firstly, transgender girls should
participate on girls' sportsteams because transgender girls
are girls, period.
Now, what often underlies thatquestion, in my experience, are
two things.
Concerns about safety andconcerns about fairness.
I'm going to start there becauseyou and I both know and love...
(33:17):
A couple of very tall boys.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Very tall.
SPEAKER_01 (33:19):
One of whom in the sixth grade was nearly six feet
tall and would step onto asports field and be a literal
head and shoulders.
SPEAKER_00 (33:30):
Minimum.
Above every
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
other kid.
Like could pick him out fromacross a ball field.
Yes.
UNKNOWN (33:36):
And that's in some ways, someone might say that's
not fair.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
There might be a kid on the team who has had access
to paid sports.
Private coaching or lessonsbecause they have more financial
resources.
(34:16):
They will never be fullybalanced.
They will always be unfair.
And so there's that piece, andthat often goes in conversation
with this safety piece, right?
Like, well, this girl who playson this team, because, for
example, someone might worry shedid not go through this same
puberty process as someone whowas assigned female at birth.
(34:40):
So there's a safety concernthere, right?
And again, I would suggest toyou that the girls on that team
will face any number ofcompetitors who may be taller
than them, bigger than them,etc.
But also, there's also oftenthere a lack of understanding
about actually what the medicalprocess is for a transgender
girl who is still in her pubertyand teenage years.
(35:02):
Typically, most trans girls arestarting a puberty blocker
before they enter into whatsociety might talk about as a
male puberty process.
And so there isn't, for example,a skewed or disproportionately
large amount of testosterone orthings that people may be
(35:23):
concerned about there.
Listen, listener, we might begiving you more information than
you want to know here, but I amapproaching perimenopause.
And I am just here to tell youthat estrogen is not a
performance enhancing drug,folks.
I say that to
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
say...
We can do an ad forperimenopause.
I love talking aboutperimenopause.
There are signals that you mightstart needing to think about
perimenopause.
One of them being, if you wentto the mall in the 90s.
SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
If you went to the mall.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
It might be time to start thinking about
perimenopause.
SPEAKER_01 (35:55):
I say all of that to say...
There's both a lack ofunderstanding, I think, truly
sometimes around the scientificpieces and the medical pieces,
but also if it were really aboutsafety, if it were really about
fairness, we would be talkingabout all of these other pieces.
And interestingly, we never do.
This
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
used to be.
That the school districts or thesports association for the state
or for the league, they havepolicies and rules because they
know the kids who are playing.
They know these individuals andthe transgender girls who are
playing sports.
The very few number oftransgender girls who are
(36:36):
playing sports, very few, alltheir friends know that they are
girls.
Their teachers know they'regirls.
Their coaches know they'regirls.
Their parents know that they aregirls.
And to say that they can't playon the girls' team is, in some
cases, effectively outing themas transgender because some
transgender girls do not need tocome out as transgender because
(36:59):
they're only known as girls andforcing them to play on a team
that has nothing to do with whothey are if they were forced to
play on boys' teams.
That's right.
So there were...
Policies set at the local levelin a state where we care so much
about local control.
There used to be policies likethat.
And there has since been a stateban on transgender girls being
(37:23):
able to play on girls' teams inmiddle school and high school.
So, Heidi, I invited you herebecause the podcast is called
New Hampshire Has Issues.
What's the issue?
What are we facing in NewHampshire when it comes to the
LGBTQ plus community?
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Very calm legislative season, nothing
going on.
Just kidding.
That was a joke.
So we're in a really hardchapter in New Hampshire.
I won't lie to folks here.
The last couple of legislativesessions in particular have been
really difficult.
Last legislative season, we sawthe first anti-trans bill in New
Hampshire history.
(37:59):
Two of them signed into law.
And going into this session, weknew it would be tough, and it
was.
It's been very, very difficultand painful.
We have bills right now.
that are headed to the desk ofGovernor Kelly Ayotte.
As of today, Friday, July 4th at1.07 p.m., she has not yet acted
(38:20):
on those bills, HB 377 and HB712, both of which seek to
restrict age-appropriate,well-vetted medical care for
minors in conjunction with theirparents and caregivers.
It's really painful anddifficult, and we're seeing a
number of bills targeting thingslike classroom curriculums
(38:41):
books, HB 324, also on the wayto the governor's desk is
functionally a book ban.
It would allow anybody for anyreason, including folks who
don't live in your schooldistrict to challenge a book
within that district.
There are real risks to oureducators.
And so right, all of thesethings go hand in hand, because
(39:02):
they are all a coordinatedattack on multiple marginalized
identities on folks, on blackfolks, brown folks, immigrants,
Mm-hmm.
(39:36):
Like we are the live free or diestate.
We are a state who has pridedourselves for many, many years
on live and let live andprotecting individual liberties.
And this is not that.
Like we can, you know, wecertainly can no longer say we
are the state that values localcontrol and individual freedoms
(39:57):
while passing this kind oflegislation that is frankly not
from New Hampshire.
It's all part of a national
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
playbook.
You mentioned the bans on healthcare for patients under 18 who
have parental consent.
All of this health care requiresparental consent.
That's right.
The book ban that is on its wayto the governor's desk as of
when we're recording this onJuly 4th.
(40:24):
And there's also a bill thatwould allow businesses to
discriminate against transgenderpeople, adults, from using the
bathroom that they wouldtypically use based on their
gender.
Why is this happening in thelive free or die state?
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
So there's a few factors at play here.
You know, the first of which iswhat I mentioned before.
This is a national playbook.
This is legislation we areseeing trotted out in state
houses around the country,bankrolled and funded by
national organizations who seekto legislate trans people out of
public life.
We did not originate this movehere in New Hampshire.
(41:00):
This is coming from well-fundednational movements.
In New Hampshire, we have aparticularly tricky calculus
here with Great.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
Subscribe
SPEAKER_01 (41:20):
to New Hampshire's Got Issues and make that a
priority listen, because it's ahuge piece of the political
landscape in the last fiveyears, especially in New
Hampshire.
And then the third thing I willname here is this national
movement around white Christiannationalism that we have
certainly seen at play here.
here in New Hampshire,particularly over the last
(41:42):
number of years, as well, whichis really rooted in the belief
that America was founded as awhite Christian nation.
Spoiler alert, that is not thecase.
And so anybody who falls outsideof a narrowly defined set of
ideals and beliefs, etc, isdeemed out of order.
(42:05):
And so these are folks whoreally seek to try to to build
the country in their own image,so to speak, rather than honor
the values of our founders whocame here seeking freedom from
tyranny and freedom to worship,etc.
But the white Christiannationalism piece has had a
profound impact on NewHampshire.
And I'll just give a shout outto our colleagues at the New
(42:26):
Hampshire Council of Churchesand others who are really doing
some work in this arena toeducate and combat what's been
happening here.
SPEAKER_00 (42:33):
What are people supposed to do, Heidi?
It's July 4th, 2025.
We've got theseanti-transgender, anti-LGBTQ
bills heading to GovernorAyotte's desk.
We don't know when they're goingto arrive at her desk, to be
clear.
A listener has just heard thesequestions and answers, and the
(42:53):
wheels are turning.
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
Now
SPEAKER_00 (42:56):
what?
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
So I'm going to give you three action
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
steps here.
One.
SPEAKER_01 (43:03):
You may call or email Governor Ayotte if you are
able to call.
I will encourage you to do that.
603-271-2121.
The ACLU of New Hampshire alsohas some tools around these
bills that will help prompt youthrough how to send an email.
So shout out ACLU.
We'll link those in the shownotes.
But please contact GovernorAyotte assuming these bills have
(43:27):
not already been signed at thetime this goes to air.
Number two, if you are lookingto tangibly support LGBTQ plus
youth and their families in NewHampshire.
I will invite you to donate toNew Hampshire Outright,
particularly to our mutual aidfund.
This is new work that we aredoing this year that meets
(43:48):
tangible needs for LGBTQ plusyoung people and their families
in New Hampshire.
These are small gifts given tomeet a direct need, whether
around healthcare, clothing,summer camp, the list is long.
So You can find that informationon our website, nhoutright.org.
Those are your first two.
(44:09):
Your third action step isactually read Abby Maxwell's
book.
If you are looking for areal-life story of a parent and
a kiddo based here in NewHampshire that cuts through the
noise and that tells a realstory in a way that is
accessible, please pick upAbby's book, One Day I'll Grow
(44:29):
Up and Be a Beautiful Woman.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Three actions.
One of them will take you aboutfive minutes.
The second one will take youabout two minutes.
And the third one depends on howfast you read, but it will be
worth it for sure.
It's an excellent, excellentbook.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
You know, the thing I'll close with, we've sort of
touched on this a little bit.
And I just want to say assomebody on the ground who sees
and knows and loves and workswith trans kids.
They are awesome, exceptional,beautiful, funny, smart kids.
And they are kids that you knowand kids that you love, that you
(45:05):
see in the local grocery store,that go to school with your
kids, that work the counter atyour ice cream shop, that hand
you your book at the publiclibrary, and on and on.
And so if you find yourselfgetting caught in these talking
points, these are real kids.
And the kids in your communityneed to see You.
Yeah.
(45:54):
And that for me is the shiftfrom acceptance to belonging,
right?
When you anticipate before thereis ever someone right in front
of you, how can I care for thisperson?
How can I make them safe?
How can I communicate that I'man ally and I want to be on your
team?
SPEAKER_00 (46:13):
Heidi, we debunked a lot of myths.
And I will invite the listener.
If you have a question that wehaven't covered, send it in.
I'm happy to answer questions tothe best of my ability.
Actually, that's why I have thiswhole podcast, right?
Like it's kind of my thing.
If you have a question andyou're like, oh man, I wish they
had covered this.
Like just send me an email.
New Hampshire has issues atgmail.com.
(46:33):
It is okay.
I answer every email that I get.
I'll tell you that.
Unless you're hostile.
I'm not going to answer that.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Once a teacher, always a teacher.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Truly.
I've told my students that backwhen I was a teacher.
I was like, once you're Englishteacher, I am always your
English teacher.
It's just the reality.
The other great story, ofcourse, is telling my cousin
(47:02):
that I was gay and her immediatereaction was, I should have
known because when we were inmiddle school, you said you had
a crush on Jim Carrey and nobodyhas a crush on Jim Carrey.
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
I had forgotten about that one.
Having listeners, I have metLiz's cousin who is incredible
and I can hear that in hervoice.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
She still brings it up.
No one has a crush on JimCarrey.
I should have known.
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