October 28, 2025 • 39 mins
What the heck is a "warrant article" and what does it have to do with property taxes? Should you go to a deliberative session? (yes!) Okay, fine, but what is it?
Liz talks with Niko Papakonstantis, the Chair of the Exeter Select Board, about what issues towns face when New Hampshire and the federal government cut services and funding.
Niko asks Liz what folks have against street sweepers. Liz asks Niko what "work-life balance" means.
New episodes on Tuesdays.
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Links:
- Exeter to use $560K grant for new public safety complex amid rising costs (Portsmouth Herald)
- Londonderry billed $2 million to cover SchoolCare deficit (Union Leader)
- Concord school board approves budget and tax increase to cover portion of $5m shortfall (Concord Monitor)
- Risk pool seeks $30M from school districts to erase budget deficit (Union Leader)
- Lawmakers mull letting Claremont access state aid early to solve $5 million budget crisis (Concord Monitor)
- School districts look at savings and hiring freezes to cover a $30 million health care bill (NHPR)
- ‘A huge shock’: Concord among hardest hit by surprise health insurance assessment for school districts, other public entities (Concord Monitor)
- Scanlan says 2 municipal risk pools in danger of 'insolvency' (Union Leader)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz Canada (00:00):
You got a big job being the chair of a select
board.
It's you know, we all five ofus.
It's it's a very important job.
It's a volunteer job.
I mean, we're volunteers.
We are paid a a small stipend.
Uh that's not why we do itthough.
Um how much is the stipend, Niko?
The stipend for the selectboard is $3,000 a year, and the
(00:21):
chair gets $4,000 a year.
Okay.
Rolling in the big bucks as thechair of the select board, I
see.
You are listening to NewHampshire Has Issues, and I am
(00:42):
your host, Liz Canada.
We're gonna talk about examplesthat are from Exeter.
And I know that a lot of youare not from Exeter.
Some of you are from the bigcity of Manchester or Concord,
and some of you are from townsthat are way up in the north
country.
And all sorts of other places.
You know, I'm not good atgeography, so I don't even want
(01:03):
to pretend to know wheredifferent places are.
But the examples we use fromExeter are not really Exeter
specific.
They're just examples to talkabout what's happening as a
whole in our state.
Costs are going up, localbudgets are going up.
There are issues with keepingmunicipal employees, there are
emergencies that come up, andlike what happens if your
(01:26):
community gets a $1 million billthat you have to pay right
away?
How easy is it for yourcommunity to pay it?
And truly, I think the bigquestion is: how do local
communities pay for things thatthe state has stopped paying
for, or that the federalgovernment has cut?
How do we keep moving forward?
Is it sustainable?
If you would like to supportthe show, you can visit
(01:49):
patreon.com slash nh has issues.
If you have an idea for anepisode, send me an email.
Newhampshire has issues atgmail.com.
Bonus points, if you have afavorite episode that you can
point to and say, you know, Ireally like that conversation
you had with fill in the blankand tell me why.
Ooh, that sounds like such anEnglish teacher thing to say.
Be specific.
(02:09):
And in this episode, that'swhat we're trying to be.
We're trying to be specific togive you an idea of what's
happening at the local levelbecause of what's happened here
in the state and across thecountry.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues, the podcast that dares
to ask, will my property taxesever go down?
(02:33):
Are you going to answer thatquestion for me, Niko?
Niko Papakonstantis (02:37):
I hope so.
I wish I could.
If I if I could, then I'd Iwould truly be an expert, but I
I don't think I can touch thatone.
I don't think anybody can rightnow, sadly.
Liz Canada (02:46):
It's a dangerous game talking about property
taxes.
But also that's kind of what'son everyone's mind right now.
You want to hit me with yourtagline?
Niko Papakonstantis (02:53):
New Hampshire has issues.
Liz Canada (02:55):
Um and what's the rest of the The Podcast That
Dares to Ask.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:00):
The podcast that dares to ask.
Can our town continue to affordfederal and state cuts?
Liz Canada (03:08):
Ooh, very good one.
Very, very good one.
I am your host, Liz Canada, andjoining me today is the chair
of the Exeter Select Board, NikoPapakonstantis.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:20):
Niko, thank you.
Liz Canada (03:21):
Welcome to the show.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to spend some timewith you.
Liz Canada (03:26):
I'm so glad that you're here.
I like to start every episodewith a simple question.
You're the chair of the ExeterSelect Board.
What does it mean to be a chairof a select board?
And follow up, what is a selectboard?
Because I don't think I hadever heard of one before I moved
to the state.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:42):
Okay.
Well, let's let's start fromthe second question and then
move into the first question.
So what is a select board?
A select board is the governingbody that governs the town.
Um some towns have three-memberselect boards.
Exeter has a five-member selectboard.
Uh the select board are electedofficials.
They are elected uh by theregistered voters in Exeter.
(04:03):
This is the first year of mythird term.
And um, I do, actually.
It has its reward, um, servingthe community, obviously.
Yeah.
But I look at serving on theselect board as, you know,
obviously you have the authoritygiven to you by the RSAs in New
(04:24):
Hampshire.
You're the governing body, butI don't look at it more as a I
don't look at it as an authoritything.
I look at it as the voters inthe town have put faith and
confidence in the board andgiven us the awesome
responsibility of making surethat the town has clean water,
the core essential functions,clean water, safe streets,
(04:45):
public safety to name three ofthe biggest core essential
functions.
We're also the stewards of thetaxpayer dollars, town land, and
um hopefully, um, and with withthe board that I've had the
pleasure to serve on, uh, we weI think we do make progress in
town and make the quality oflife better for our citizens.
I mean, that's truly what theselect board should do.
(05:06):
So again, I've been on theboard.
This is my seventh year, thisis the sixth year that I've
chaired.
Um, and to say that I'mincredibly humbled that um my
colleagues on the board um havehad the confidence in me to
continue to lead.
You know, the chair of theselect board's like the chair of
any other board.
They, you know, put togetherthe agenda along with the town
manager.
(05:27):
Uh they lead the meeting, uh,moderate the meeting, entertain
motions.
But again, I'm blessed and andhumbled to work with four other
individuals that um, you know,we don't always we're pretty
much aligned.
I mean, we don't always agreeon everything, which is healthy,
but we're aligned in the waythat we're here, the five of us
are here for the same reason,and that's to serve the
(05:47):
community and to improve thequality of life.
Um, there's no hidden agendas,and you'll you'll see that in
other towns.
Um, you know, you'll have canyou'll have contentious boards.
But we're fortunate this board,it's a very easy board to be
the chair because I'm workingwith four quality people.
And so the town of Exeter isvery lucky, I think.
And full transparency to thelistener.
(06:08):
I'm married to one of thoseselect board members.
I will let the listener figureout which one.
We won't give it away, nospoilers.
Okay.
It's not Niko, but it'ssomebody else.
Exeter is part of uh what's called an SP2
form of government in NewHampshire.
There's two parts.
There's a deliberative sessionwhere all of the warrant
articles on the ballot arepresented by the town moderator.
(06:30):
And anybody that's a votingresident in Exeter can get up
and speak to that warrantarticle, or they can move to
amend the warrant article.
Can we talk about what awarrant article is?
Because that term is like, whatthe heck is a warrant article?
A warrant?
That sounds scary to me,though.
(06:51):
That might be around warrants.
What does that mean?
The warrant uh um the ballot is you know is
usually typically three to fourpages.
Uh it's very long.
Um and the warrant article, uhthe you know, there's usually
anywhere between 25 to 40warrant articles, depending upon
(07:13):
what uh we're asking folks for.
Liz Canada (07:15):
So what are some examples of warrant articles in
like regular person language?
What would be some examples ofthose?
Sure.
Niko Papakonstantis (07:23):
It could be a capital improvement project
that requires a bond.
There are several warrantarticles that will deal with the
general budget, the waterbudget, the sewer budget.
You know, there's some uhregular warrant articles that
appear every year for capitalimprovement uh uh funds,
revolving funds.
Liz Canada (07:39):
What's a capital improvement project?
What does that mean?
Niko Papakonstantis (07:43):
So capital improvement project is any
project that requires asignificant amount of money,
usually over $25,000, that'sgoing towards making
improvements in town.
For instance, you know, anywork on redesigning streets, any
project involving water sewer,uh it could be uh building
(08:04):
something.
A new police and fire, yeah.
Substation, correct.
Liz Canada (08:08):
Yeah, right.
We just recently had that onours.
Yep.
Niko Papakonstantis (08:11):
So those are some examples of capital.
Anything to make you know a bigimprovement on either an
existing structure or one you'regonna build, but it requires
the vote for a significantamount of money.
There's also vehicles, like ifyour town needs a new firetruck,
that is one of the capitalimprovement projects.
Plows.
Plows.
Oh my God.
(08:32):
We live in New England, NewHampshire.
We might need plows, streetcleaners, the sweepers.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Shout out, Exeter.
It was um no, it it's but thishere's an example um really you
know, on on the town to umcommunicate better.
Last year's election, thestreet sweeper was the only
(08:53):
warrant article that did notpass.
The only warrant article thatdidn't pass.
So unbelievable.
What did a street sweeper everdo to you?
Well exactly.
But we're putting it back onbecause it's not really just to
clean the streets.
I don't think it's not just forthat.
Liz Canada (09:12):
So I've said this on the show before.
I serve on our town's budgetrecommendations committee, and I
learned in the meeting in thesummer, you know, the street
sweeper had been voted down, weknew that.
But then learned about howimportant it is for what goes
through the stormwater and wwater treatment plant, right?
Like it it affects the nitrogenlevels.
(09:33):
And I was like, how do we evenbegin to explain this to the
voters?
Of like, it's not just, well, II don't really care that our
streets are not clean.
It's like it actually, thereare all of these long-term
impacts on all of our otherfacilities.
Right.
Niko Papakonstantis (09:48):
I'm glad we could put in a quick plug.
Liz Canada (09:49):
Thank you for that.
Quick plug for the streetsweeper.
But those are capitalimprovement projects.
Right.
Uh big park changes, like thatkind of stuff is capital
improvement projects.
So warrant articles are thesespecific sort of items that
people in the community can voteon, which is essentially their
ballot, the different questionson the ballot.
(10:12):
You mentioned the deliberativesession.
I think it's good to talk aboutbecause what a mysterious
process that really is, and thatwe are an SB2 town.
Niko Papakonstantis (10:23):
It's like the old-fashioned town meetings.
Liz Canada (10:25):
Old-fashioned.
Niko Papakonstant (10:26):
Old-fashioned town meetings.
Liz Canada (10:27):
Old-fashioned town meetings, yeah.
I mean, this is as local as itgets, is the deliberative
session in a town like ours.
Every warrant article, everyitem is talked about.
A select board member oftenlike can speak to it because you
all have been in your meetingsall year long talking about it.
And then members of the publiccan get up to the microphone and
(10:50):
ask questions about what it isand what it means.
And debate.
Yes, there have been some hotlycontested debates out there of
what's going on.
Usually about big projects.
That's often the case, is thatbig projects like, you know, you
want to renovate the library oryou want to get a street
sweeper, you get folks at themicrophone to debate it of
(11:12):
whether or not that should besomething that folks vote on
later on.
How many people show up to thisdeliberative session every
year?
Who goes to the deliberativesession?
Niko Papakonstantis (11:24):
It's it's real, it's it's it's sad.
Um I the first year Well toI'll step back.
When I first started going todeliberative sessions, there'd
be several hundred, uh, whichdoesn't seem like a lot, but you
know, I'm going back probably10, 11, 12 years ago.
You'd have several hundredpeople.
You know, we hold ours andExeter in the auditorium of the
high school, uh, because it'sprobably the largest venue and
(11:47):
ADA accessible and all of that.
Because we have a, you know, wehave uh we have a very you know
diverse group of folks thatlive in Exeter, uh, but we have
a a lot of older folks.
So uh it's important to have afacility where anybody with
mobility issues, you know, canhave that access because you're
essentially voting atdeliberative session.
Um it's part of the democraticprocess in SP2 form of
(12:09):
government.
So it's crucial.
And sadly, sadly, Liz, youknow, now if we get a hundred to
a hundred and twenty-fivepeople deliberative session, um,
and many will come for whateverwarrant articles they're
interested in, and then by theend they leave.
It's sad.
All elections, whether it'sfederal or state, whatnot, all
elections are important.
(12:29):
But but really, this is theelection when when you live in
town, you mean you're makingyour vote is going towards your
quality of life and your way ofliving and your tax dollars.
Like you have so much controlover a local election.
And uh at the second part ofit, you know, in March where you
actually have the physicalelection, you might get anywhere
between 13 to 20 percent of thevoters turn out.
(12:52):
And on the higher end, it'susually when there's a
controversial article.
But but that's sad, you know,um, that that only 13 to 15
percent will come and vote onthe budget, you know, or vote on
uh capital improvementprojects.
So you've been on the selectboard for a few years now, that
is, you were there before COVIDas well as through COVID.
What trends have you seen interms of costs affecting the
(13:16):
town or trends from the statelevel or the federal level and
the impacts on the town?
Great question.
Um I'll say that you know,before I was elected to the
select board in 2019, I servedon the budget recommendations
committee for three years.
I chaired it for two.
And you know, I'll tell anybodythat is any that has any
(13:38):
interest in running for a selectboard, um, serve on the budget
recommendations committee for acouple of years.
Liz Canada (13:44):
Join us.
Niko Papakonstantis (13:45):
At least it's a party.
It's a great group of people,it's a party.
You really learn how the townoperates.
I mean you serve where your taxdollars are being spent, but
yeah.
And even if you have noaspirations to run for elected
office, if you're interested inserving on a committee, it's
great work.
Um and it's it's notyear-round.
(14:06):
You know, there's a couple ofmonths where it's very, as you
very well know, it's it's a lotof heavy lifting.
Liz Canada (14:11):
We're in October and we are in the heart of it right
now.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:13):
You are in the heart of it now.
So back to your question, Ijust wanted to preface with you
know, I I've seen enough of howthe town operated pre-COVID
between the three years ofbudget recommendations committee
and the first year on theselect board.
In 2020, which was my secondyear, the board nominated me to
be chair.
Liz Canada (14:33):
Oh my god, you became the chair in 2020.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:37):
Less than a week of the year.
Trial by fire.
I'm in the town manager'soffice putting together the
agenda, and the emergency ordercame shutting the state down.
Liz Canada (14:46):
Yeah.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:48):
Holy smokes.
Things have changed as I mean,ch things have changed in so
many ways.
But when when you're looking atthe trends, um it's difficult
in New Hampshire anyway, becausethe your your your property
taxes are essentially the mainsource of revenue um that pays
for everything.
And when I say everything, youknow, when you look at your tax
(15:09):
bill, only 23 or 24 percent ofthat tax bill is going for your
town services.
The rest are going to theschool and to the county.
So that's that's a smallpercentage of your tax bill
that's actually going to thetown.
And um, we've seen anincredible labor shortage during
COVID and certainly post-COVID.
And that's that's just trendingthe wrong way.
(15:31):
Um we're seeing it in in coredepartments.
You know, I look at publicsafety as kind of like a
three-legged stool.
We all think of police andfire, but public works is really
that third piece of publicsafety.
Liz Canada (15:42):
When public works isn't working, we all feel it.
Everyone can feel it.
Niko Papakonstantis (15:46):
Everybody.
And and police and fire can'tdo their jobs without public.
So it's that it's the thosethree really important
departments.
And those are the threedepartments that we're seeing
that trend uh going the wrongway with a labor shortage.
For for public safety, it'sother communities poaching, and
it and it just becomes a bit ofmoney.
(16:07):
Can you believe poaching?
Liz Canada (16:09):
They're stealing our people?
Niko Papakonstantis (16:10):
They're stealing our police officers,
our firefighters.
Oh my God.
Liz Canada (16:16):
Why?
Niko Papakonstantis (16:16):
How?
What?
We are fortunate in this townthat we have a really great
police chief, same with ourdeputy police chief and fire
chief.
It's a great place to work, butsome of these other towns are
offering bonuses, they'reoffering signing bonuses,
they're offering wages that Ifrankly don't know where they're
getting that money, um whichmeans that they're they're kind
(16:39):
of diluting the rest of theirgeneral budget.
So you have that.
And with public works, one ofthe great things post-COVID was
all of the private uhinfrastructure projects that
came about uh from PresidentBiden's bill that he passed, um,
which was a great bill.
However, because there were somany private infrastructure
projects available, not just inExeter, but many public works
(17:02):
people went and to the privatesector, particularly the younger
ones, they were making three orfour times more money.
Liz Canada (17:09):
Yeah, right.
Right.
Yeah.
Government jobs are not knownfor making big bucks.
That's not typically what folksthink of when they think about
getting a role like that.
So it's hard to compete.
You know, you look at a youngergeneration that they don't look
at the local government job asa career.
They don't think about healthinsurance, they don't think
about pensions, they don't thinkabout, you know, any of the
(17:31):
things they're just looking atum they're looking at salary and
also I think they think aboutwork-life balance more than
maybe other generations do.
What's a work-life balance?
Niko Papakonstantis (17:46):
Um that's real.
I mean, it's you know, if ifyou're if you're not living in
Exeter and you're working forthe public works department and
you can get a job um making thesame money five or ten minutes
away, um you're gonna leave.
That's hard.
Yeah.
Even if it's a dollar, youknow, a couple dollars less than
what you're making.
I mean, it's you're gonnaleave.
And so that's post-COVID.
I mean, I I've seen an increasein that.
(18:07):
The big thing though, Liz, isthe health insurance.
Liz Canada (18:12):
Niko, the health insurance.
Okay.
There's like a lot ofcommunities that are being
impacted by the increased costof health insurance.
And we're talking like 20 to 30percent increases in health
insurance costs alone.
Why is this happening, Niko?
How how did it get to thispoint?
(18:33):
What does it mean?
I have so many questions aboutthis.
What is going on with thehealth insurance costs?
Niko Papakonstantis (18:38):
We could talk about this for hours and
you know the I've got the hours,Niko.
Liz Canada (18:42):
I'm not going anywhere.
Niko Papakonstantis (18:45):
I just wish I had some answers.
Right.
Right.
That's the problem's notexclusive to Exeter.
It's not exclusive to NewHampshire, New England.
For the last 25 years, I'veworked with the insurance arm of
the Mass Municipal Association,which is essentially an
organization much like the NewHampshire Municipal Association.
(19:05):
All towns and municipalitiesbelong to it.
And they're essentially thelobbying voice for the
municipalities.
Um, so I've been working withthem.
Um, they're my only client for25 years, again, on the
insurance arm of things.
And this is something thatwe've been watching for years.
And the health, I mean, as weknow, I mean, the health system
(19:26):
in this country is completelyfractured.
The cost of health care isincreasing, the cost of claims,
the claims experience has goneup, medicine is more expensive.
It's you know, and it starts atthe federal level, right?
I mean, it's broken.
The system is broken, and inthe last nine or ten months, are
moving towards, I'll becareful, are moving towards
(19:49):
cutting things even more.
And when you start making thosecuts, particularly to, you
know, Medicare and Medicaid, youknow, folks don't understand
how that trickles down, whichwhich goes back to my tagline um
earlier.
You know, we feel theconsequences in in a couple of
different ways.
I mean, you know, you justbrought it up for our employees.
(20:10):
I mean, we're looking at, we'rebudgeting a 20% increase in the
town's health insurance, whichis an additional 20% after like
it was 17 or 18 last year.
Right.
It's not sustainable.
Liz Canada (20:24):
What a listener needs to understand, and I think
a lot of people do, but noteveryone, is that when those
costs go up, that's your localproperty taxes.
Like that is your own cost thatyou need to be able to raise in
your own community when thosethings go up.
Like that affects you verydirectly.
That's where the money comesfrom to pay for those things.
Niko Papakonstantis (20:47):
And you know, some of your smaller
towns, you're looking at a 20%increase.
That's a couple of jobs.
Liz Canada (20:53):
Niko, you haven't made this decision as the chair
of the select board to increasecosts for healthcare.
You have not said we've decidedwe're going to increase the
cost of health care benefits inExeter by 20%.
That was not a choice that youall made.
No, we were told.
Right.
It happened to us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who decides that?
(21:15):
Where does it come from?
Niko Papakonstantis (21:19):
So the town of Exeter is part of the New
Hampshire Health Trust pool.
Um most uh states um havenonprofit health trusts that
work with municipalities.
So for example, my day job,that's the nonprofit that that
uh it's actually one of thelargest in the country.
Um so you know, people thefirst thing people say is, well,
(21:43):
why can't we put this out tobid?
And why can't we try to findsomebody that's cheaper?
And what makes it complicatedis that the the health trust um
of which we're a member worksexclusively with municipalities,
number one.
Number two, they're nonprofits.
So this is not, you know, a uhyou know, insurance company
(22:05):
going out and reaping profits.
You know, all of the money thatwe pay in the in the in the
premium, you know, goes to payfor the claims, um, but then it
also goes back to the municipal.
There have been years, I don'tremember, Liz, but it was maybe
three or four, it was duringCOVID.
We actually had a decrease inour health insurance because we,
you know, we had a good year.
(22:26):
Their uh reserve allowed forthem to give back to
municipalities, but just in thelast couple of years, the the
expense has gone up so much.
So it affects folks in townbecause that's their taxpayer
dollars, right?
But it also affects folks incommunities in the state that
are a lot more rural.
Their facilities are going tostart to close because they're
not gonna be able to afford tokeep open.
(22:47):
Um and knock on wood,hopefully, you know, we we keep
our hospital.
But you know, we we've had wehave issues right here with our
hospital.
And it all comes down to costand it comes down to money.
So as these facilities start toclose up and then providers
start to retire or close uptheir shops because they they
can't afford to stay inbusiness.
So it all has this trickleeffect.
Yeah, the health insurance forour employees affects your tax
(23:09):
dollars, but all of these othercuts that are being made are
affecting, you know, where welive and affecting our quality
of life and the ability for usto get, you know, adequate
health care.
And though I have no controlover that on the select board,
it affects me because you'relooking out for your community.
Liz Canada (23:25):
I had Christine Stoddard on who talked about
Medicaid and the changes toMedicaid, the higher costs for
lower income folks that they'regonna have to pay for themselves
monthly, and that a lot ofpeople could potentially get
kicked off of their healthinsurance over the next few
months.
And she talked about how thatimpact will be felt at the local
(23:48):
level, because you know, thebudget includes the welfare
office, which is a required partof the budget, and that folks,
if they don't have healthinsurance, they're going to need
support from emergency rooms.
Uh, they might lose their homesif they get behind on their
payments, and then that getsabsorbed here at the local
level.
So when the state cuts Medicaidcosts or the federal level, we
(24:11):
feel that at the local levelbecause we have to take care of
people.
At the end of the day, theystill need to be taken care of.
That's right.
Niko Papakonstantis (24:18):
You know, many of the decisions we make
are how are the taxpayer dollarsspent, what projects are we
gonna do, we put out uh, youknow, fires when situations come
up.
But the other reason that Iwanted to serve and feel so
fortunate that I'm able to is,you know, you want to help
people.
And when folks' benefits arecut and they have to make a
decision on where they're gonnalive and we're coming and
(24:42):
sending them a property tax billthat they probably can't afford
anymore because they had tomake a dis you know choice.
I've got to get medication, Ineed to see the doctor, we need
to eat.
I mean, there's you know,dollars get stretched.
And when we're faced with no,your health insurance is going
up 20 percent, or you negotiatecollective bargaining agreements
for you know, police, fire, andpublic works, and they're
(25:02):
they're paid what they should bepaid.
They're paid a fair wage.
Liz Canada (25:05):
As they should be.
As they should, exactly.
Yeah.
Niko Papakonstantis (25:09):
The collective bargaining agreements
we have with with uh thoserespective departments are
they're very fair.
They're fair to the employees,first and foremost, and they're
fair to the taxpayers.
Um and so we brought up thepolice and fire substation, and
and there are two other bigticketed, not as big as that.
But those three things, thehealth insurance, the collective
(25:31):
bargaining agreements, and twoor three big projects at debt
service on those, is making up89% of the budget increase we're
gonna be asking the voters toabsorb.
These are not glamorous wants.
You know, it's not a new recfacility, it's not a new senior
center, it's not all of thesethings that we'd love to have.
(25:52):
These are things that we just,you know, they're out of our
control.
So how do you go to, you know,somebody who's who's looking at
their tax bill and looking atthe fact that their their health
insurance has been canceled orcut and they have to buy food?
It's challenging.
And at the end of the days, youknow, sometimes you you do come
home from a select boardmeeting going, I I just wish I
could do more.
(26:12):
Right.
But at the local level, we canonly do so much.
It's funny, Liz, that the statewill say, let the local
officials figure it out.
Yeah.
But then when we can't figureit out, they don't want to help
out.
Liz Canada (26:23):
Um Yeah, what is the how does the state help in
these moments, right?
Like these 50 communities, I'msaying 50, and I might be wrong.
It's quite a few communitiesaround the state who are finding
themselves with a big bill.
Londonderry is like $2 million,right?
One to two million dollarsdeficit in uh for their invoice.
(26:44):
How does the state get involvedin this?
How do they help?
Do you have like a bat phone toget to the state to be like,
help?
We need some support here.
Niko Papakonstantis (26:54):
Not that I know of.
It hasn't in seven years Ihaven't found it.
If it is, you know, again, itit goes back to um in New
Hampshire.
Um, the towns are reliant onthe property taxes.
And again, only a little lessthan a quarter of the property
taxes.
There's some meals and hoteltax um that that the state uh uh
(27:17):
provides back tomunicipalities.
There used to be um revenuesharing to some degree in New
Hampshire.
Th those two words don't reallysync up with my past episodes.
Revenue and sharing?
What does that mean?
So that that um that was suspended, I
believe, back in 2010 or 2011during the Great Recession.
What was it?
(27:38):
Past tense.
Yeah.
Big past I mean, I moved herein I think oh six.
And um about a couple yearsago, I was doing some research,
like how can we get additionalrevenue?
Well, what can we get from thestate?
And so I started reading aboutthis revenue sharing, and I'm
like, where's this spent?
I haven't heard anything aboutthis.
It's been about 15 years, sothat's probably not coming back.
(28:01):
The state used the GreatRecession as the opportunity to
suspend it.
And as we all know, we we getout of that okay.
And you know, it it's been awhile.
And they've made no effort to,you know, lift the suspension of
that.
But really, the for as amunicipality, the only
(28:21):
additional revenue that isavailable is through grants.
But those are drying up.
Um I think it just poses a uhyou know a bigger question, Liz,
is that, you know, and and Iknow it's a I won't use the
dirty word here in NewHampshire.
Um, so I'll use an alternativeword.
But we need we municipalitiesneed a way to get additional
(28:42):
revenue from the state.
And um I know that nobody likesthat word tax.
I'll say it.
I'll say it.
Nobody likes that word tax.
Liz Canada (28:51):
Controversial take, Niko, that you think people in
New Hampshire don't like theword tax.
I don't know what you'resaying.
Niko Papakonstantis (28:58):
I didn't grow up in New Hampshire.
Uh I grew up in Maine.
And um you know, you paid yourtaxes, you paid your fair share.
I mean, my my parents werepublic educators, they were
public servants.
And you know, as a little kid,maybe you don't hear these
conversations that we now haveas adults, but I just remember
living in a community.
And the town I was in was alittle bit bigger than Exeter,
but you lived in a community,and as you got older, you
(29:21):
continued paying your taxes foras long as you stayed in the
community because you weretaking care of that younger
generation.
Older generations had takencare of, you know, the their
kids.
And that's how I look atcommunity.
And so, you know, when you getyour tax bill, um and you're
hoping that your localrepresentatives are stewarding
(29:44):
the taxpayer dollars uhresponsibly, and and I think
that that is the case here inExeter, um but your tax dollars
are going for your community.
And, you know, um I've heardfolks complain about having to
pay school taxes.
Because their kids have eithergrown up or they don't have
kids.
Well, these kids in school, Imean, they're going to be our
(30:06):
future doctors, they're going tobe our future attorneys, our
future police officers,firefighters, public works,
engineers.
We're losing that sense ofcommunity.
And if having to not utter theword tax is going to stall any
way to get additional revenue,um, I'm not sure that's
responsible.
I'm not saying that we need togo tax everything or impose a
(30:28):
state tax.
I don't know what the answeris.
But I do know thatmunicipalities are not going to
be able to sustain themselveswithout anything, any further
help from the state.
Liz Canada (30:39):
And we're seeing that in Claremont to an extent,
and there was mismanagement.
There were other elements that,you know, I talked about with
Representative Damon and withMatt Mushin.
The story that just came out ofall of these communities that
are getting a really big invoiceof hundreds of thousands,
million dollars, multimilliondollars that they have to pay,
(31:00):
there's not just a magical moneytree in communities to just get
and be like, well, we gotta paymore money.
Easy peasy, no problem.
Like that is gonna fall on thelocal officials who the
community members are gonna goand probably get mad at.
How did this happen?
Why is this happening?
And what I'm hearing you say,and what I think is being said
(31:21):
around the state, is like, whatis the state gonna do about
this?
How is the state gonna step inand be leaders to help solve
this issue?
Because this is more than justan Exeter thing or Londonderry
or Claremont.
Like all of these communitiesare going to be feeling this in
their property tax bills in thenext year.
And you can only ask for somuch.
(31:42):
You know, um here in Exeter acouple of years ago, we had um
we had a uh a siphon project gosouth, I'm sure.
Anyone that lives in theSeacoast region over the last
two.
You know, we're not talking about any of the fun
projects like pickleball.
We also have pickleball now.
That's but that's the wholepoint.
You know, you have a you have asiphon issue that affected
(32:04):
forty percent of the sewer inExeter, which is significant.
Significant.
Niko Papakonstantis (32:10):
And it wasn't that anybody did anything
wrong.
These things happen,particularly when you live in an
in an you know an old town withold infrastructure.
Yep.
So with the siphon project, wehad our first special town
meeting.
I'll explain what that is.
And I think that been 15 yearsor so a special town meeting is
when you need to raise anappropriate funds.
(32:31):
It gets back to that SB2 formof government because you can
only go to the voters you knowduring deliberative session in
the in the election.
Liz Canada (32:37):
Yep.
Niko Papakonstantis (32:38):
So if you need to raise an appropriate any
money, you have to have what'scalled a special town meeting.
You have to petition a judgeand the court to allow that.
And you have to hold a publichearing, you have to have a
deliberative session, and thenyou have to have a special
election.
I won't get into a long story,but we needed several million
dollars to ensure 40 percent ofthe sewer operation in town.
Liz Canada (33:02):
Folks, you want the sewer to work in your town.
I guarantee 40 percent.
You may be like, that's justforty percent.
You don't want you don't want40 percent of your sewer not
working in your community.
You just don't.
Niko Papakonstantis (33:14):
You don't.
And and we had a full, youknow, we had a full town hall,
and folks were not happy.
Um, understandably.
I mean, that's this is inaddition to what they had
already passed for that year.
But what's great about Exeteris the community comes together,
particularly on these projectsthat aren't, you know, they're
(33:34):
not attractive.
Like, you know, you you wantyou're just gonna spend a couple
million dollars, you want apickleball court, or you you
want to improve your seniorcenter, or something.
Liz Canada (33:43):
Something you can point at and say, look at our
cool new thing.
Not well, guess what?
The butt sewers needed to befixed 40 percent.
Niko Papakonstantis (33:51):
We we could we could uh point at them for
several years because um it ittook a while.
Everything was out in the open.
And particularly one communityum you know really had to watch
this every day for severalyears.
But uh and your heart goes outto them.
But but anyway, the point isthat to to what you were saying,
you know, you have your budgetincrease, you have all of these
(34:13):
you know increases, then youhave these other special
requests that you have to make.
There has to come to a pointwhere the community is gonna
say, you know, we're sosupportive of you, but we can't
do it anymore.
We can't do that anymore.
And then what do you do?
So what you know, what what'sthe state gonna do when we s
when we say we can't, you know,we can't assure 40 percent of
our sewer operation?
I mean it's scary.
(34:34):
And and fortunately, thiscommunity stands behind the
warrant article.
Go back to those warrantarticles.
You know, um, they stand behinduh the majority of folks here
stand behind their publicsafety, they stand behind their
public works, but we can't keepsaying the same story.
You know, we're gonna this isgonna be the third year in a row
we're gonna talk about healthinsurance.
(34:55):
This is the third year in a rowwe're gonna talk about job
shortage, labor shortage rather.
Um third year in a row we'regonna talk about competitive
wages.
Not everybody in town wants ourpeople to be paid a competitive
fair wage.
And as a select board, we donot, we're aligned.
We do not want to lay anybodyoff, we do not want to cut any
essential services.
And so you're you know, youlook at some of the other
(35:18):
communities in New Hampshirethat aren't as fortunate as we
are.
But there's gonna come a timewhere we're just it's not
sustainable.
Liz Canada (35:25):
And all of these costs that are being put onto
that are being put onto ourcommunity are coming from
somewhere else.
They're coming from outside ofour community where then we are
told you have to figure it out.
Like it is the downshifting ofcosts is shifting it down on us.
(35:47):
It's being pushed down onto ourlocal level, our local leaders
who have to make then toughdecisions because you're left
kind of all alone in doing this.
I don't see a lot of statelevel leaders stepping up and
saying we're gonna solve thisproblem across the state, even
though it all of these thingsthat you're talking about are
happening across the state.
Yes, we might have had thesewer thing happen, but I'm sure
(36:11):
we're not the only ones whohave to repair our sewers every
once in a while.
That's gonna happen toeverybody.
And with all these costs goingup, it's just gonna make it more
difficult to be able to fixthat.
So you know, what can folks incommunities do?
Start at the local let's workin reverse.
You know, we talked about howyou know the feds make their
cuts, it trickles down to thestate.
(36:31):
The state says let the locallet the locals figure it out,
the locals do their best tofigure it out and um until they
can't, right?
So what can folks do?
Show up at deliberativesession.
If you're in SB2 town, if youhang out with SB2 people, go to
your deliberative session, andeven if you don't live in an
SB2, go and vote at your localelection.
(36:52):
You know, vote responsibly forthe folks that are going to
govern your town.
Start there.
Get involved in knowing whereyour tax dollars at the local
level are being spent.
Go to select board meetings, goto city council meetings, go to
town council meetings, be avoice.
From there, then you go to thestate.
Folks need to stand up, theyneed to start using their voices
(37:12):
because it matters.
There have been controversialissues that have come before the
select board in Exeter, andwe've had a packed room.
Yep.
Oftentimes that have spilledout into the hallway.
You know, we haven't had toomany controversial matters.
That's good.
But even when we had it's so isas an elected official to have
a room full of people who maynot agree with you, who may yell
(37:34):
and shout at you, it allows usto do our jobs better because
we're hearing what you want.
We're hearing what yourconcerns are.
I call it leading with empathy.
And that's where I start withis I want to hear.
You know, you you may not haveto call me names or yell so
loud, but I'm getting yourpoint.
Yes.
But but hearing from you allowsus to lead with empathy.
(37:58):
And that's at the local level.
Um, obviously showing up tovote at state elections, federal
elections, but you know, to toleaders in the in in the state
and leaders, you know,nationally, you know, listen to
your constituents and lead withempathy.
And lead with empathy.
Just try empathy, just give ita little try.
(38:19):
Dip your toe in the street.
It's so rewarding.
Niko Papakonstantis (38:21):
It's so rewarding.
Liz Canada (38:23):
Niko, we've covered a lot of ground here.
This is a lot of local levelstuff, and I love it.
Well, I've had fun.
Niko, thank you so much.
Thank you for for having me.
Thank you for being on thepodcast that asks people who is
Liz Canada's spouse on theExeter Select Board right into
the show and see if you cannarrow it down from the other
(38:44):
four members who are on there.
Niko Papakonstantis (38:45):
I'm gonna be interested to hear how that
goes.
Liz Canada (38:48):
I can't wait to see the answers.
Can't wait to see what peoplesay.
Just go back to previousepisodes, you'll hear her name.
Spoiler alert, her.
Because we have talked abouthow the state says, go figure it
(39:14):
out.
You have to do it on your own.
Why can't we have remotemeetings?
Isn't that our choice?
Are meetings our choice?
What's going on?
Niko Papakonstantis (39:20):
No.
Liz Canada (39:21):
Why?
Niko Papakonstantis (39:21):
New Hampshire is not a home rule
state.
Liz Canada (39:23):
Because New Hampshire has
issues, name of the podcast...
Yikes.
You got a big job being the chair of a select
board.
It's you know, we all five ofus.
It's it's a very important job.
It's a volunteer job.
I mean, we're volunteers.
We are paid a a small stipend.
Uh that's not why we do itthough.
Um how much is the stipend, Niko?
The stipend for the selectboard is $3,000 a year, and the
(00:21):
chair gets $4,000 a year.
Okay.
Rolling in the big bucks as thechair of the select board, I
see.
You are listening to NewHampshire Has Issues, and I am
(00:42):
your host, Liz Canada.
We're gonna talk about examplesthat are from Exeter.
And I know that a lot of youare not from Exeter.
Some of you are from the bigcity of Manchester or Concord,
and some of you are from townsthat are way up in the north
country.
And all sorts of other places.
You know, I'm not good atgeography, so I don't even want
(01:03):
to pretend to know wheredifferent places are.
But the examples we use fromExeter are not really Exeter
specific.
They're just examples to talkabout what's happening as a
whole in our state.
Costs are going up, localbudgets are going up.
There are issues with keepingmunicipal employees, there are
emergencies that come up, andlike what happens if your
(01:26):
community gets a $1 million billthat you have to pay right
away?
How easy is it for yourcommunity to pay it?
And truly, I think the bigquestion is: how do local
communities pay for things thatthe state has stopped paying
for, or that the federalgovernment has cut?
How do we keep moving forward?
Is it sustainable?
If you would like to supportthe show, you can visit
(01:49):
patreon.com slash nh has issues.
If you have an idea for anepisode, send me an email.
Newhampshire has issues atgmail.com.
Bonus points, if you have afavorite episode that you can
point to and say, you know, Ireally like that conversation
you had with fill in the blankand tell me why.
Ooh, that sounds like such anEnglish teacher thing to say.
Be specific.
(02:09):
And in this episode, that'swhat we're trying to be.
We're trying to be specific togive you an idea of what's
happening at the local levelbecause of what's happened here
in the state and across thecountry.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues, the podcast that dares
to ask, will my property taxesever go down?
(02:33):
Are you going to answer thatquestion for me, Niko?
Niko Papakonstantis (02:37):
I hope so.
I wish I could.
If I if I could, then I'd Iwould truly be an expert, but I
I don't think I can touch thatone.
I don't think anybody can rightnow, sadly.
Liz Canada (02:46):
It's a dangerous game talking about property
taxes.
But also that's kind of what'son everyone's mind right now.
You want to hit me with yourtagline?
Niko Papakonstantis (02:53):
New Hampshire has issues.
Liz Canada (02:55):
Um and what's the rest of the The Podcast That
Dares to Ask.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:00):
The podcast that dares to ask.
Can our town continue to affordfederal and state cuts?
Liz Canada (03:08):
Ooh, very good one.
Very, very good one.
I am your host, Liz Canada, andjoining me today is the chair
of the Exeter Select Board, NikoPapakonstantis.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:20):
Niko, thank you.
Liz Canada (03:21):
Welcome to the show.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to spend some timewith you.
Liz Canada (03:26):
I'm so glad that you're here.
I like to start every episodewith a simple question.
You're the chair of the ExeterSelect Board.
What does it mean to be a chairof a select board?
And follow up, what is a selectboard?
Because I don't think I hadever heard of one before I moved
to the state.
Niko Papakonstantis (03:42):
Okay.
Well, let's let's start fromthe second question and then
move into the first question.
So what is a select board?
A select board is the governingbody that governs the town.
Um some towns have three-memberselect boards.
Exeter has a five-member selectboard.
Uh the select board are electedofficials.
They are elected uh by theregistered voters in Exeter.
(04:03):
This is the first year of mythird term.
And um, I do, actually.
It has its reward, um, servingthe community, obviously.
Yeah.
But I look at serving on theselect board as, you know,
obviously you have the authoritygiven to you by the RSAs in New
(04:24):
Hampshire.
You're the governing body, butI don't look at it more as a I
don't look at it as an authoritything.
I look at it as the voters inthe town have put faith and
confidence in the board andgiven us the awesome
responsibility of making surethat the town has clean water,
the core essential functions,clean water, safe streets,
(04:45):
public safety to name three ofthe biggest core essential
functions.
We're also the stewards of thetaxpayer dollars, town land, and
um hopefully, um, and with withthe board that I've had the
pleasure to serve on, uh, we weI think we do make progress in
town and make the quality oflife better for our citizens.
I mean, that's truly what theselect board should do.
(05:06):
So again, I've been on theboard.
This is my seventh year, thisis the sixth year that I've
chaired.
Um, and to say that I'mincredibly humbled that um my
colleagues on the board um havehad the confidence in me to
continue to lead.
You know, the chair of theselect board's like the chair of
any other board.
They, you know, put togetherthe agenda along with the town
manager.
(05:27):
Uh they lead the meeting, uh,moderate the meeting, entertain
motions.
But again, I'm blessed and andhumbled to work with four other
individuals that um, you know,we don't always we're pretty
much aligned.
I mean, we don't always agreeon everything, which is healthy,
but we're aligned in the waythat we're here, the five of us
are here for the same reason,and that's to serve the
(05:47):
community and to improve thequality of life.
Um, there's no hidden agendas,and you'll you'll see that in
other towns.
Um, you know, you'll have canyou'll have contentious boards.
But we're fortunate this board,it's a very easy board to be
the chair because I'm workingwith four quality people.
And so the town of Exeter isvery lucky, I think.
And full transparency to thelistener.
(06:08):
I'm married to one of thoseselect board members.
I will let the listener figureout which one.
We won't give it away, nospoilers.
Okay.
It's not Niko, but it'ssomebody else.
Exeter is part of uh what's called an SP2
form of government in NewHampshire.
There's two parts.
There's a deliberative sessionwhere all of the warrant
articles on the ballot arepresented by the town moderator.
(06:30):
And anybody that's a votingresident in Exeter can get up
and speak to that warrantarticle, or they can move to
amend the warrant article.
Can we talk about what awarrant article is?
Because that term is like, whatthe heck is a warrant article?
A warrant?
That sounds scary to me,though.
(06:51):
That might be around warrants.
What does that mean?
The warrant uh um the ballot is you know is
usually typically three to fourpages.
Uh it's very long.
Um and the warrant article, uhthe you know, there's usually
anywhere between 25 to 40warrant articles, depending upon
(07:13):
what uh we're asking folks for.
Liz Canada (07:15):
So what are some examples of warrant articles in
like regular person language?
What would be some examples ofthose?
Sure.
Niko Papakonstantis (07:23):
It could be a capital improvement project
that requires a bond.
There are several warrantarticles that will deal with the
general budget, the waterbudget, the sewer budget.
You know, there's some uhregular warrant articles that
appear every year for capitalimprovement uh uh funds,
revolving funds.
Liz Canada (07:39):
What's a capital improvement project?
What does that mean?
Niko Papakonstantis (07:43):
So capital improvement project is any
project that requires asignificant amount of money,
usually over $25,000, that'sgoing towards making
improvements in town.
For instance, you know, anywork on redesigning streets, any
project involving water sewer,uh it could be uh building
(08:04):
something.
A new police and fire, yeah.
Substation, correct.
Liz Canada (08:08):
Yeah, right.
We just recently had that onours.
Yep.
Niko Papakonstantis (08:11):
So those are some examples of capital.
Anything to make you know a bigimprovement on either an
existing structure or one you'regonna build, but it requires
the vote for a significantamount of money.
There's also vehicles, like ifyour town needs a new firetruck,
that is one of the capitalimprovement projects.
Plows.
Plows.
Oh my God.
(08:32):
We live in New England, NewHampshire.
We might need plows, streetcleaners, the sweepers.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Shout out, Exeter.
It was um no, it it's but thishere's an example um really you
know, on on the town to umcommunicate better.
Last year's election, thestreet sweeper was the only
(08:53):
warrant article that did notpass.
The only warrant article thatdidn't pass.
So unbelievable.
What did a street sweeper everdo to you?
Well exactly.
But we're putting it back onbecause it's not really just to
clean the streets.
I don't think it's not just forthat.
Liz Canada (09:12):
So I've said this on the show before.
I serve on our town's budgetrecommendations committee, and I
learned in the meeting in thesummer, you know, the street
sweeper had been voted down, weknew that.
But then learned about howimportant it is for what goes
through the stormwater and wwater treatment plant, right?
Like it it affects the nitrogenlevels.
(09:33):
And I was like, how do we evenbegin to explain this to the
voters?
Of like, it's not just, well, II don't really care that our
streets are not clean.
It's like it actually, thereare all of these long-term
impacts on all of our otherfacilities.
Right.
Niko Papakonstantis (09:48):
I'm glad we could put in a quick plug.
Liz Canada (09:49):
Thank you for that.
Quick plug for the streetsweeper.
But those are capitalimprovement projects.
Right.
Uh big park changes, like thatkind of stuff is capital
improvement projects.
So warrant articles are thesespecific sort of items that
people in the community can voteon, which is essentially their
ballot, the different questionson the ballot.
(10:12):
You mentioned the deliberativesession.
I think it's good to talk aboutbecause what a mysterious
process that really is, and thatwe are an SB2 town.
Niko Papakonstantis (10:23):
It's like the old-fashioned town meetings.
Liz Canada (10:25):
Old-fashioned.
Niko Papakonstant (10:26):
Old-fashioned town meetings.
Liz Canada (10:27):
Old-fashioned town meetings, yeah.
I mean, this is as local as itgets, is the deliberative
session in a town like ours.
Every warrant article, everyitem is talked about.
A select board member oftenlike can speak to it because you
all have been in your meetingsall year long talking about it.
And then members of the publiccan get up to the microphone and
(10:50):
ask questions about what it isand what it means.
And debate.
Yes, there have been some hotlycontested debates out there of
what's going on.
Usually about big projects.
That's often the case, is thatbig projects like, you know, you
want to renovate the library oryou want to get a street
sweeper, you get folks at themicrophone to debate it of
(11:12):
whether or not that should besomething that folks vote on
later on.
How many people show up to thisdeliberative session every
year?
Who goes to the deliberativesession?
Niko Papakonstantis (11:24):
It's it's real, it's it's it's sad.
Um I the first year Well toI'll step back.
When I first started going todeliberative sessions, there'd
be several hundred, uh, whichdoesn't seem like a lot, but you
know, I'm going back probably10, 11, 12 years ago.
You'd have several hundredpeople.
You know, we hold ours andExeter in the auditorium of the
high school, uh, because it'sprobably the largest venue and
(11:47):
ADA accessible and all of that.
Because we have a, you know, wehave uh we have a very you know
diverse group of folks thatlive in Exeter, uh, but we have
a a lot of older folks.
So uh it's important to have afacility where anybody with
mobility issues, you know, canhave that access because you're
essentially voting atdeliberative session.
Um it's part of the democraticprocess in SP2 form of
(12:09):
government.
So it's crucial.
And sadly, sadly, Liz, youknow, now if we get a hundred to
a hundred and twenty-fivepeople deliberative session, um,
and many will come for whateverwarrant articles they're
interested in, and then by theend they leave.
It's sad.
All elections, whether it'sfederal or state, whatnot, all
elections are important.
(12:29):
But but really, this is theelection when when you live in
town, you mean you're makingyour vote is going towards your
quality of life and your way ofliving and your tax dollars.
Like you have so much controlover a local election.
And uh at the second part ofit, you know, in March where you
actually have the physicalelection, you might get anywhere
between 13 to 20 percent of thevoters turn out.
(12:52):
And on the higher end, it'susually when there's a
controversial article.
But but that's sad, you know,um, that that only 13 to 15
percent will come and vote onthe budget, you know, or vote on
uh capital improvementprojects.
So you've been on the selectboard for a few years now, that
is, you were there before COVIDas well as through COVID.
What trends have you seen interms of costs affecting the
(13:16):
town or trends from the statelevel or the federal level and
the impacts on the town?
Great question.
Um I'll say that you know,before I was elected to the
select board in 2019, I servedon the budget recommendations
committee for three years.
I chaired it for two.
And you know, I'll tell anybodythat is any that has any
(13:38):
interest in running for a selectboard, um, serve on the budget
recommendations committee for acouple of years.
Liz Canada (13:44):
Join us.
Niko Papakonstantis (13:45):
At least it's a party.
It's a great group of people,it's a party.
You really learn how the townoperates.
I mean you serve where your taxdollars are being spent, but
yeah.
And even if you have noaspirations to run for elected
office, if you're interested inserving on a committee, it's
great work.
Um and it's it's notyear-round.
(14:06):
You know, there's a couple ofmonths where it's very, as you
very well know, it's it's a lotof heavy lifting.
Liz Canada (14:11):
We're in October and we are in the heart of it right
now.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:13):
You are in the heart of it now.
So back to your question, Ijust wanted to preface with you
know, I I've seen enough of howthe town operated pre-COVID
between the three years ofbudget recommendations committee
and the first year on theselect board.
In 2020, which was my secondyear, the board nominated me to
be chair.
Liz Canada (14:33):
Oh my god, you became the chair in 2020.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:37):
Less than a week of the year.
Trial by fire.
I'm in the town manager'soffice putting together the
agenda, and the emergency ordercame shutting the state down.
Liz Canada (14:46):
Yeah.
Niko Papakonstantis (14:48):
Holy smokes.
Things have changed as I mean,ch things have changed in so
many ways.
But when when you're looking atthe trends, um it's difficult
in New Hampshire anyway, becausethe your your your property
taxes are essentially the mainsource of revenue um that pays
for everything.
And when I say everything, youknow, when you look at your tax
(15:09):
bill, only 23 or 24 percent ofthat tax bill is going for your
town services.
The rest are going to theschool and to the county.
So that's that's a smallpercentage of your tax bill
that's actually going to thetown.
And um, we've seen anincredible labor shortage during
COVID and certainly post-COVID.
And that's that's just trendingthe wrong way.
(15:31):
Um we're seeing it in in coredepartments.
You know, I look at publicsafety as kind of like a
three-legged stool.
We all think of police andfire, but public works is really
that third piece of publicsafety.
Liz Canada (15:42):
When public works isn't working, we all feel it.
Everyone can feel it.
Niko Papakonstantis (15:46):
Everybody.
And and police and fire can'tdo their jobs without public.
So it's that it's the thosethree really important
departments.
And those are the threedepartments that we're seeing
that trend uh going the wrongway with a labor shortage.
For for public safety, it'sother communities poaching, and
it and it just becomes a bit ofmoney.
(16:07):
Can you believe poaching?
Liz Canada (16:09):
They're stealing our people?
Niko Papakonstantis (16:10):
They're stealing our police officers,
our firefighters.
Oh my God.
Liz Canada (16:16):
Why?
Niko Papakonstantis (16:16):
How?
What?
We are fortunate in this townthat we have a really great
police chief, same with ourdeputy police chief and fire
chief.
It's a great place to work, butsome of these other towns are
offering bonuses, they'reoffering signing bonuses,
they're offering wages that Ifrankly don't know where they're
getting that money, um whichmeans that they're they're kind
(16:39):
of diluting the rest of theirgeneral budget.
So you have that.
And with public works, one ofthe great things post-COVID was
all of the private uhinfrastructure projects that
came about uh from PresidentBiden's bill that he passed, um,
which was a great bill.
However, because there were somany private infrastructure
projects available, not just inExeter, but many public works
(17:02):
people went and to the privatesector, particularly the younger
ones, they were making three orfour times more money.
Liz Canada (17:09):
Yeah, right.
Right.
Yeah.
Government jobs are not knownfor making big bucks.
That's not typically what folksthink of when they think about
getting a role like that.
So it's hard to compete.
You know, you look at a youngergeneration that they don't look
at the local government job asa career.
They don't think about healthinsurance, they don't think
about pensions, they don't thinkabout, you know, any of the
(17:31):
things they're just looking atum they're looking at salary and
also I think they think aboutwork-life balance more than
maybe other generations do.
What's a work-life balance?
Niko Papakonstantis (17:46):
Um that's real.
I mean, it's you know, if ifyou're if you're not living in
Exeter and you're working forthe public works department and
you can get a job um making thesame money five or ten minutes
away, um you're gonna leave.
That's hard.
Yeah.
Even if it's a dollar, youknow, a couple dollars less than
what you're making.
I mean, it's you're gonnaleave.
And so that's post-COVID.
I mean, I I've seen an increasein that.
(18:07):
The big thing though, Liz, isthe health insurance.
Liz Canada (18:12):
Niko, the health insurance.
Okay.
There's like a lot ofcommunities that are being
impacted by the increased costof health insurance.
And we're talking like 20 to 30percent increases in health
insurance costs alone.
Why is this happening, Niko?
How how did it get to thispoint?
(18:33):
What does it mean?
I have so many questions aboutthis.
What is going on with thehealth insurance costs?
Niko Papakonstantis (18:38):
We could talk about this for hours and
you know the I've got the hours,Niko.
Liz Canada (18:42):
I'm not going anywhere.
Niko Papakonstantis (18:45):
I just wish I had some answers.
Right.
Right.
That's the problem's notexclusive to Exeter.
It's not exclusive to NewHampshire, New England.
For the last 25 years, I'veworked with the insurance arm of
the Mass Municipal Association,which is essentially an
organization much like the NewHampshire Municipal Association.
(19:05):
All towns and municipalitiesbelong to it.
And they're essentially thelobbying voice for the
municipalities.
Um, so I've been working withthem.
Um, they're my only client for25 years, again, on the
insurance arm of things.
And this is something thatwe've been watching for years.
And the health, I mean, as weknow, I mean, the health system
(19:26):
in this country is completelyfractured.
The cost of health care isincreasing, the cost of claims,
the claims experience has goneup, medicine is more expensive.
It's you know, and it starts atthe federal level, right?
I mean, it's broken.
The system is broken, and inthe last nine or ten months, are
moving towards, I'll becareful, are moving towards
(19:49):
cutting things even more.
And when you start making thosecuts, particularly to, you
know, Medicare and Medicaid, youknow, folks don't understand
how that trickles down, whichwhich goes back to my tagline um
earlier.
You know, we feel theconsequences in in a couple of
different ways.
I mean, you know, you justbrought it up for our employees.
(20:10):
I mean, we're looking at, we'rebudgeting a 20% increase in the
town's health insurance, whichis an additional 20% after like
it was 17 or 18 last year.
Right.
It's not sustainable.
Liz Canada (20:24):
What a listener needs to understand, and I think
a lot of people do, but noteveryone, is that when those
costs go up, that's your localproperty taxes.
Like that is your own cost thatyou need to be able to raise in
your own community when thosethings go up.
Like that affects you verydirectly.
That's where the money comesfrom to pay for those things.
Niko Papakonstantis (20:47):
And you know, some of your smaller
towns, you're looking at a 20%increase.
That's a couple of jobs.
Liz Canada (20:53):
Niko, you haven't made this decision as the chair
of the select board to increasecosts for healthcare.
You have not said we've decidedwe're going to increase the
cost of health care benefits inExeter by 20%.
That was not a choice that youall made.
No, we were told.
Right.
It happened to us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who decides that?
(21:15):
Where does it come from?
Niko Papakonstantis (21:19):
So the town of Exeter is part of the New
Hampshire Health Trust pool.
Um most uh states um havenonprofit health trusts that
work with municipalities.
So for example, my day job,that's the nonprofit that that
uh it's actually one of thelargest in the country.
Um so you know, people thefirst thing people say is, well,
(21:43):
why can't we put this out tobid?
And why can't we try to findsomebody that's cheaper?
And what makes it complicatedis that the the health trust um
of which we're a member worksexclusively with municipalities,
number one.
Number two, they're nonprofits.
So this is not, you know, a uhyou know, insurance company
(22:05):
going out and reaping profits.
You know, all of the money thatwe pay in the in the in the
premium, you know, goes to payfor the claims, um, but then it
also goes back to the municipal.
There have been years, I don'tremember, Liz, but it was maybe
three or four, it was duringCOVID.
We actually had a decrease inour health insurance because we,
you know, we had a good year.
(22:26):
Their uh reserve allowed forthem to give back to
municipalities, but just in thelast couple of years, the the
expense has gone up so much.
So it affects folks in townbecause that's their taxpayer
dollars, right?
But it also affects folks incommunities in the state that
are a lot more rural.
Their facilities are going tostart to close because they're
not gonna be able to afford tokeep open.
(22:47):
Um and knock on wood,hopefully, you know, we we keep
our hospital.
But you know, we we've had wehave issues right here with our
hospital.
And it all comes down to costand it comes down to money.
So as these facilities start toclose up and then providers
start to retire or close uptheir shops because they they
can't afford to stay inbusiness.
So it all has this trickleeffect.
Yeah, the health insurance forour employees affects your tax
(23:09):
dollars, but all of these othercuts that are being made are
affecting, you know, where welive and affecting our quality
of life and the ability for usto get, you know, adequate
health care.
And though I have no controlover that on the select board,
it affects me because you'relooking out for your community.
Liz Canada (23:25):
I had Christine Stoddard on who talked about
Medicaid and the changes toMedicaid, the higher costs for
lower income folks that they'regonna have to pay for themselves
monthly, and that a lot ofpeople could potentially get
kicked off of their healthinsurance over the next few
months.
And she talked about how thatimpact will be felt at the local
(23:48):
level, because you know, thebudget includes the welfare
office, which is a required partof the budget, and that folks,
if they don't have healthinsurance, they're going to need
support from emergency rooms.
Uh, they might lose their homesif they get behind on their
payments, and then that getsabsorbed here at the local
level.
So when the state cuts Medicaidcosts or the federal level, we
(24:11):
feel that at the local levelbecause we have to take care of
people.
At the end of the day, theystill need to be taken care of.
That's right.
Niko Papakonstantis (24:18):
You know, many of the decisions we make
are how are the taxpayer dollarsspent, what projects are we
gonna do, we put out uh, youknow, fires when situations come
up.
But the other reason that Iwanted to serve and feel so
fortunate that I'm able to is,you know, you want to help
people.
And when folks' benefits arecut and they have to make a
decision on where they're gonnalive and we're coming and
(24:42):
sending them a property tax billthat they probably can't afford
anymore because they had tomake a dis you know choice.
I've got to get medication, Ineed to see the doctor, we need
to eat.
I mean, there's you know,dollars get stretched.
And when we're faced with no,your health insurance is going
up 20 percent, or you negotiatecollective bargaining agreements
for you know, police, fire, andpublic works, and they're
(25:02):
they're paid what they should bepaid.
They're paid a fair wage.
Liz Canada (25:05):
As they should be.
As they should, exactly.
Yeah.
Niko Papakonstantis (25:09):
The collective bargaining agreements
we have with with uh thoserespective departments are
they're very fair.
They're fair to the employees,first and foremost, and they're
fair to the taxpayers.
Um and so we brought up thepolice and fire substation, and
and there are two other bigticketed, not as big as that.
But those three things, thehealth insurance, the collective
(25:31):
bargaining agreements, and twoor three big projects at debt
service on those, is making up89% of the budget increase we're
gonna be asking the voters toabsorb.
These are not glamorous wants.
You know, it's not a new recfacility, it's not a new senior
center, it's not all of thesethings that we'd love to have.
(25:52):
These are things that we just,you know, they're out of our
control.
So how do you go to, you know,somebody who's who's looking at
their tax bill and looking atthe fact that their their health
insurance has been canceled orcut and they have to buy food?
It's challenging.
And at the end of the days, youknow, sometimes you you do come
home from a select boardmeeting going, I I just wish I
could do more.
(26:12):
Right.
But at the local level, we canonly do so much.
It's funny, Liz, that the statewill say, let the local
officials figure it out.
Yeah.
But then when we can't figureit out, they don't want to help
out.
Liz Canada (26:23):
Um Yeah, what is the how does the state help in
these moments, right?
Like these 50 communities, I'msaying 50, and I might be wrong.
It's quite a few communitiesaround the state who are finding
themselves with a big bill.
Londonderry is like $2 million,right?
One to two million dollarsdeficit in uh for their invoice.
(26:44):
How does the state get involvedin this?
How do they help?
Do you have like a bat phone toget to the state to be like,
help?
We need some support here.
Niko Papakonstantis (26:54):
Not that I know of.
It hasn't in seven years Ihaven't found it.
If it is, you know, again, itit goes back to um in New
Hampshire.
Um, the towns are reliant onthe property taxes.
And again, only a little lessthan a quarter of the property
taxes.
There's some meals and hoteltax um that that the state uh uh
(27:17):
provides back tomunicipalities.
There used to be um revenuesharing to some degree in New
Hampshire.
Th those two words don't reallysync up with my past episodes.
Revenue and sharing?
What does that mean?
So that that um that was suspended, I
believe, back in 2010 or 2011during the Great Recession.
What was it?
(27:38):
Past tense.
Yeah.
Big past I mean, I moved herein I think oh six.
And um about a couple yearsago, I was doing some research,
like how can we get additionalrevenue?
Well, what can we get from thestate?
And so I started reading aboutthis revenue sharing, and I'm
like, where's this spent?
I haven't heard anything aboutthis.
It's been about 15 years, sothat's probably not coming back.
(28:01):
The state used the GreatRecession as the opportunity to
suspend it.
And as we all know, we we getout of that okay.
And you know, it it's been awhile.
And they've made no effort to,you know, lift the suspension of
that.
But really, the for as amunicipality, the only
(28:21):
additional revenue that isavailable is through grants.
But those are drying up.
Um I think it just poses a uhyou know a bigger question, Liz,
is that, you know, and and Iknow it's a I won't use the
dirty word here in NewHampshire.
Um, so I'll use an alternativeword.
But we need we municipalitiesneed a way to get additional
(28:42):
revenue from the state.
And um I know that nobody likesthat word tax.
I'll say it.
I'll say it.
Nobody likes that word tax.
Liz Canada (28:51):
Controversial take, Niko, that you think people in
New Hampshire don't like theword tax.
I don't know what you'resaying.
Niko Papakonstantis (28:58):
I didn't grow up in New Hampshire.
Uh I grew up in Maine.
And um you know, you paid yourtaxes, you paid your fair share.
I mean, my my parents werepublic educators, they were
public servants.
And you know, as a little kid,maybe you don't hear these
conversations that we now haveas adults, but I just remember
living in a community.
And the town I was in was alittle bit bigger than Exeter,
but you lived in a community,and as you got older, you
(29:21):
continued paying your taxes foras long as you stayed in the
community because you weretaking care of that younger
generation.
Older generations had takencare of, you know, the their
kids.
And that's how I look atcommunity.
And so, you know, when you getyour tax bill, um and you're
hoping that your localrepresentatives are stewarding
(29:44):
the taxpayer dollars uhresponsibly, and and I think
that that is the case here inExeter, um but your tax dollars
are going for your community.
And, you know, um I've heardfolks complain about having to
pay school taxes.
Because their kids have eithergrown up or they don't have
kids.
Well, these kids in school, Imean, they're going to be our
(30:06):
future doctors, they're going tobe our future attorneys, our
future police officers,firefighters, public works,
engineers.
We're losing that sense ofcommunity.
And if having to not utter theword tax is going to stall any
way to get additional revenue,um, I'm not sure that's
responsible.
I'm not saying that we need togo tax everything or impose a
(30:28):
state tax.
I don't know what the answeris.
But I do know thatmunicipalities are not going to
be able to sustain themselveswithout anything, any further
help from the state.
Liz Canada (30:39):
And we're seeing that in Claremont to an extent,
and there was mismanagement.
There were other elements that,you know, I talked about with
Representative Damon and withMatt Mushin.
The story that just came out ofall of these communities that
are getting a really big invoiceof hundreds of thousands,
million dollars, multimilliondollars that they have to pay,
(31:00):
there's not just a magical moneytree in communities to just get
and be like, well, we gotta paymore money.
Easy peasy, no problem.
Like that is gonna fall on thelocal officials who the
community members are gonna goand probably get mad at.
How did this happen?
Why is this happening?
And what I'm hearing you say,and what I think is being said
(31:21):
around the state, is like, whatis the state gonna do about
this?
How is the state gonna step inand be leaders to help solve
this issue?
Because this is more than justan Exeter thing or Londonderry
or Claremont.
Like all of these communitiesare going to be feeling this in
their property tax bills in thenext year.
And you can only ask for somuch.
(31:42):
You know, um here in Exeter acouple of years ago, we had um
we had a uh a siphon project gosouth, I'm sure.
Anyone that lives in theSeacoast region over the last
two.
You know, we're not talking about any of the fun
projects like pickleball.
We also have pickleball now.
That's but that's the wholepoint.
You know, you have a you have asiphon issue that affected
(32:04):
forty percent of the sewer inExeter, which is significant.
Significant.
Niko Papakonstantis (32:10):
And it wasn't that anybody did anything
wrong.
These things happen,particularly when you live in an
in an you know an old town withold infrastructure.
Yep.
So with the siphon project, wehad our first special town
meeting.
I'll explain what that is.
And I think that been 15 yearsor so a special town meeting is
when you need to raise anappropriate funds.
(32:31):
It gets back to that SB2 formof government because you can
only go to the voters you knowduring deliberative session in
the in the election.
Liz Canada (32:37):
Yep.
Niko Papakonstantis (32:38):
So if you need to raise an appropriate any
money, you have to have what'scalled a special town meeting.
You have to petition a judgeand the court to allow that.
And you have to hold a publichearing, you have to have a
deliberative session, and thenyou have to have a special
election.
I won't get into a long story,but we needed several million
dollars to ensure 40 percent ofthe sewer operation in town.
Liz Canada (33:02):
Folks, you want the sewer to work in your town.
I guarantee 40 percent.
You may be like, that's justforty percent.
You don't want you don't want40 percent of your sewer not
working in your community.
You just don't.
Niko Papakonstantis (33:14):
You don't.
And and we had a full, youknow, we had a full town hall,
and folks were not happy.
Um, understandably.
I mean, that's this is inaddition to what they had
already passed for that year.
But what's great about Exeteris the community comes together,
particularly on these projectsthat aren't, you know, they're
(33:34):
not attractive.
Like, you know, you you wantyou're just gonna spend a couple
million dollars, you want apickleball court, or you you
want to improve your seniorcenter, or something.
Liz Canada (33:43):
Something you can point at and say, look at our
cool new thing.
Not well, guess what?
The butt sewers needed to befixed 40 percent.
Niko Papakonstantis (33:51):
We we could we could uh point at them for
several years because um it ittook a while.
Everything was out in the open.
And particularly one communityum you know really had to watch
this every day for severalyears.
But uh and your heart goes outto them.
But but anyway, the point isthat to to what you were saying,
you know, you have your budgetincrease, you have all of these
(34:13):
you know increases, then youhave these other special
requests that you have to make.
There has to come to a pointwhere the community is gonna
say, you know, we're sosupportive of you, but we can't
do it anymore.
We can't do that anymore.
And then what do you do?
So what you know, what what'sthe state gonna do when we s
when we say we can't, you know,we can't assure 40 percent of
our sewer operation?
I mean it's scary.
(34:34):
And and fortunately, thiscommunity stands behind the
warrant article.
Go back to those warrantarticles.
You know, um, they stand behinduh the majority of folks here
stand behind their publicsafety, they stand behind their
public works, but we can't keepsaying the same story.
You know, we're gonna this isgonna be the third year in a row
we're gonna talk about healthinsurance.
(34:55):
This is the third year in a rowwe're gonna talk about job
shortage, labor shortage rather.
Um third year in a row we'regonna talk about competitive
wages.
Not everybody in town wants ourpeople to be paid a competitive
fair wage.
And as a select board, we donot, we're aligned.
We do not want to lay anybodyoff, we do not want to cut any
essential services.
And so you're you know, youlook at some of the other
(35:18):
communities in New Hampshirethat aren't as fortunate as we
are.
But there's gonna come a timewhere we're just it's not
sustainable.
Liz Canada (35:25):
And all of these costs that are being put onto
that are being put onto ourcommunity are coming from
somewhere else.
They're coming from outside ofour community where then we are
told you have to figure it out.
Like it is the downshifting ofcosts is shifting it down on us.
(35:47):
It's being pushed down onto ourlocal level, our local leaders
who have to make then toughdecisions because you're left
kind of all alone in doing this.
I don't see a lot of statelevel leaders stepping up and
saying we're gonna solve thisproblem across the state, even
though it all of these thingsthat you're talking about are
happening across the state.
Yes, we might have had thesewer thing happen, but I'm sure
(36:11):
we're not the only ones whohave to repair our sewers every
once in a while.
That's gonna happen toeverybody.
And with all these costs goingup, it's just gonna make it more
difficult to be able to fixthat.
So you know, what can folks incommunities do?
Start at the local let's workin reverse.
You know, we talked about howyou know the feds make their
cuts, it trickles down to thestate.
(36:31):
The state says let the locallet the locals figure it out,
the locals do their best tofigure it out and um until they
can't, right?
So what can folks do?
Show up at deliberativesession.
If you're in SB2 town, if youhang out with SB2 people, go to
your deliberative session, andeven if you don't live in an
SB2, go and vote at your localelection.
(36:52):
You know, vote responsibly forthe folks that are going to
govern your town.
Start there.
Get involved in knowing whereyour tax dollars at the local
level are being spent.
Go to select board meetings, goto city council meetings, go to
town council meetings, be avoice.
From there, then you go to thestate.
Folks need to stand up, theyneed to start using their voices
(37:12):
because it matters.
There have been controversialissues that have come before the
select board in Exeter, andwe've had a packed room.
Yep.
Oftentimes that have spilledout into the hallway.
You know, we haven't had toomany controversial matters.
That's good.
But even when we had it's so isas an elected official to have
a room full of people who maynot agree with you, who may yell
(37:34):
and shout at you, it allows usto do our jobs better because
we're hearing what you want.
We're hearing what yourconcerns are.
I call it leading with empathy.
And that's where I start withis I want to hear.
You know, you you may not haveto call me names or yell so
loud, but I'm getting yourpoint.
Yes.
But but hearing from you allowsus to lead with empathy.
(37:58):
And that's at the local level.
Um, obviously showing up tovote at state elections, federal
elections, but you know, to toleaders in the in in the state
and leaders, you know,nationally, you know, listen to
your constituents and lead withempathy.
And lead with empathy.
Just try empathy, just give ita little try.
(38:19):
Dip your toe in the street.
It's so rewarding.
Niko Papakonstantis (38:21):
It's so rewarding.
Liz Canada (38:23):
Niko, we've covered a lot of ground here.
This is a lot of local levelstuff, and I love it.
Well, I've had fun.
Niko, thank you so much.
Thank you for for having me.
Thank you for being on thepodcast that asks people who is
Liz Canada's spouse on theExeter Select Board right into
the show and see if you cannarrow it down from the other
(38:44):
four members who are on there.
Niko Papakonstantis (38:45):
I'm gonna be interested to hear how that
goes.
Liz Canada (38:48):
I can't wait to see the answers.
Can't wait to see what peoplesay.
Just go back to previousepisodes, you'll hear her name.
Spoiler alert, her.
Because we have talked abouthow the state says, go figure it
(39:14):
out.
You have to do it on your own.
Why can't we have remotemeetings?
Isn't that our choice?
Are meetings our choice?
What's going on?
Niko Papakonstantis (39:20):
No.
Liz Canada (39:21):
Why?
Niko Papakonstantis (39:21):
New Hampshire is not a home rule
state.
Liz Canada (39:23):
Because New Hampshire has
issues, name of the podcast...
Yikes.
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