November 6, 2025 • 37 mins
What if the life you’re building is draining the person you need to be to live it? We sit down with occupational therapist and coach Heidi Blackie to explore how relentless doing, perfectionism, and inherited “shoulds” quietly feed burnout, illness, and despair — and how belief, boundaries, and acceptance can reset the nervous system and restore joy.
Heidi shares the pivotal moment she chose to believe in her ability to heal despite no diagnosis, no roadmap, and mounting losses. From there, she built a practical, research-informed toolkit: journaling to turn inward, mindfulness to quiet catastrophic futures, and gentle movement to reintroduce safety to the body. We unpack why most of us run on autopilot, how to audit hidden rules like “I must do everything,” and why modeling self-care for our kids sometimes means putting ourselves first. Along the way, we highlight a surprising winter ally — skijoring and outdoor time as a mood-boosting antidote to seasonal blues, blending nature, movement, and mindset.
Heidi’s UnshakableMe framework distills core pillars that anyone can apply: examine your stories and beliefs, practice acceptance to reduce resistance, craft a vision that excites you, claim daily choices, direct your attention deliberately, and live with intention. The goal isn’t a busier schedule; it’s a nourished self that shows up with clarity, courage, and compassion. Expect candid insights, real tools, and an
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Hi friends, welcome to the new normal, Big Life Podcast! We bring you natural news and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside and adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you’ve learned and create your own new normal and live the biggest life you can dream. I’m your host, Antoinette Lee, the Wellness Warrior.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
People are exhausted, they're depleted, but
they keep going because theythink this is life, this is what
life is.
That's what I thought.
I thought doing was what life,living a full life was about.
But living a full life is notfilling your schedule.
It's filling yourself.
(00:20):
And it's very hard for people tobreak the habits.
But I think one clue is numberone, if you're feeling really
depleted.
Number two, checking in withwhat are the choices that I
have.
You know, we have we need tomake money and have a job.
We have kids, we haveresponsibility.
(00:40):
But around those, you havechoice.
And I think putting yourselffirst and giving yourself
permission to put yourself firstabove your kids, if you can.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Hi friends, welcome to the New Normal Big Life
Podcast.
We bring you natural news andstories about nature that we
hope will inspire you to getoutside in adventure, along with
a step-by-step plan to help youpractice what you've learned and
create your own normal and livethe biggest life you can dream.
I'm your host, Antonate Lee, theWellness Warrior.
After chronic illness upendedher life, Heidi Blackie rebuilt
(01:15):
with resilience and power.
Her Unshakable Me programempowers women to heal past
wounds, shift limiting mindsets,and reclaim control.
But her insights resonate withmen too, offering universal
tools for growth.
Healing begins by confrontingemotional pain through practices
like journaling or therapy.
(01:36):
A growth-oriented mindset buildsoptimism and discipline, while
taking back power means settingboundaries and living
authentically.
With 25 years as an occupationaltherapist, Heidi guides
individuals to rediscoverstrength, providing hope and
practical strategies to facelife challenges with clarity and
joy.
(01:56):
Her journey reminds everyonewe're more capable than we
realize.
Let's dive into the healingmindset with Heidi Blackie.
Heidi, welcome to New Normal BigLife.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Thank you so much for having me, Antoinette.
I'm really excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
So you wrote about being caught in this relentless
cycle of doing and pushingthrough pain, leading to burnout
and despair, and I candefinitely relate to that.
Tell us what was your pivotalmoment.
Well, tell us the journey andinclude your pivotal moment when
you decided I've got to makesome changes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yeah, I I kind of grew up with a kind of doing
mindset.
You know, I'm I'm in my mid-50sand it's kind of the whole like
idle hands or the devil's workkind of a thing.
And so it was just, I was, thatwas what I was raised with.
(02:55):
That's kind of what I hadingrained in me.
And then when my mom went in2000, my mom was diagnosed with
cancer and she had a bone marrowtransplant.
And I took that to mean I gottasqueeze the marrow out of every
single day because I don't knowwhen it's my last.
(03:16):
So I started working severaljobs.
I was a competitive athlete.
I was very much a high achiever,part of my perfectionist
upbringing.
And I just felt this like lifeliving me from the moment I got
out of bed in the morning, myfeet hit the floor, I'd feel a
(03:36):
scarcity of time.
How am I gonna pack it all in?
And I just would go and go andgo.
And I had, I'm an occupationaltherapist.
I I treated thousands ofpatients, and I would always
ask, what do you do forrelaxation?
And they'd say, I don't havetime for relaxation.
And I said, I know, I lovemovement.
That's my relaxation.
(03:57):
And I kept going and going.
And I started to, my bodystarted to fall apart first with
injuries that wouldn't heal, andI'd patch myself up and keep on
going.
And then I started gettingillnesses, chronic illnesses
that would level me for weeks,then I would kind of patch
(04:17):
myself back up, and then I wouldget leveled again.
And those began increasing infrequency.
So I started to pare down mylife.
I stopped racing my bike and Istopped riding my bike because I
just didn't have the energy.
And I worked two jobs instead ofthree plus.
(04:38):
And it was enough for a coupleyears.
I was kind of living thissmaller life.
And then in 2016, I got hit withmassive stressors.
I lost my dog to cancer.
Two months later, I lost mysister to suicide.
And six weeks after that wasactually my wedding, which was a
(05:01):
whole survival, actually,because I was so, so, so, so
sick.
And then I lost my mom a yearlater to cancer, and I had lived
with my parents for her lastthree months, which was very
traumatic to see someone goingthrough such anguish.
And then several beyond that.
And so all these things thatwere going on in my body that
(05:24):
was tamping it down and justtrying to make it through were
just set on fire by all of thestress and it this inflammation
that was in every system of mybody.
I had brain fog, I had terriblefatigue, I had massive gut
issues.
I think I talked to you a littlebit about that.
(05:45):
And in 2021, I actually losteverything.
I lost my career.
I couldn't work at all.
I couldn't drive, I could barelyfind words.
I the words I found didn't makesense.
And I had no doctor, I had nodiagnosis, I had no path
forward.
And I was really scared andanxious.
(06:10):
And I was, I was the most aloneand the most full of despair
I've ever been in my life.
And I had, I remember sitting atmy kitchen table, and it was a
cold, dark, rainy Januarymorning, very gloomy here in
Seattle.
And I just thought, okay, you'reit.
What are you believing aboutyour ability to heal?
(06:32):
And in all these years, I hadnever turned the lens inward.
I knew there was a missingpiece, and I knew it was me, but
I had no idea how to turn thatlens.
And this absence of answersoutside of me really forced me
(06:54):
to look inward.
And the answer actually was thatI'm not gonna heal and I'm gonna
get sicker and I'm gonna getcancer and I'm gonna probably
not make it to 60.
And and I'd never been that rawwith myself before.
And that was a bitter pill.
That was really hard to swallow.
(07:16):
And I thought, if I don'tbelieve I can heal, I could find
the best doctor in the world,but I'm not gonna heal.
And I didn't believe in myself,and that was also kind of a
theme throughout my life.
And I committed to right here,right now, I'm gonna choose to
believe in myself and my botbody's ability to heal.
(07:38):
And I have no idea what thatlooks like, but I have this is I
have to, or I'm not gonna makeit.
So I started journaling.
I dove into the research on thebiology of belief, which there
is a ton of evidence.
I started meditating and doingmindfulness and movement.
(07:58):
I mean, I'm a big movementperson, but I was in bed most of
the time.
So it was just trying tointegrate small bits of movement
and just creating stories thatwere healing stories and and
eventually kind of going backthrough all the stories around
my illness as well as my life,and just kind of working on
(08:23):
rewriting those.
And it's been an incrediblejourney and and unexpected gems
along the way, but not easy.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
I promise you, you could have been telling my
story.
There are millions of listenersout there who are right now
going through what you aretalking about and what I have
experienced.
I remember before I began fixingmy biggest health challenges, I
was absolutely stuck on Go as acorporate CEO and an athlete.
(08:55):
I wasn't a competitive athleteby then, but still just go, go,
go, go, go.
And that was also around thestart of your tech company
expecting you to be always on24-7, 365.
Can you talk to us about how welive out patterns and stories on
(09:20):
autopilot?
Like just go, go, go, go, go,not really thinking about it
until we wake up and realizethat it's not serving us or the
deeper purpose of our lives.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout that?
How we fall into it and what wedo to wake up?
What steps do we use to create abetter life?
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
I think that it's it's everywhere.
It's in our upbringing, it's inour genetics.
You know, I think it's passeddown from generations, this
expectation that you have to doto be anybody.
And it's these patterns that weadopt as kids.
(09:58):
And most of us operate 95% ofour time out of these automatic
patterns.
Unless we realize it and realizethat we have choice, we aren't
going to change it.
And I think that, I mean, I seeit all around.
And I actually was talking to aneighbor about it last week with
(10:19):
her kids, and just how the kids,everybody orbits the kids.
They're the center, they theparents are driving them around
every weekend to games and andactivities, and there's no
downtime.
There's no downtime for thekids, and there's no downtime
for the adults.
And it's this pressure that wehave that is from other people.
(10:44):
This is how you live, this iswhat success is.
Being enough is not enough.
You have to earn it.
You have to earn this approval,you have to earn acceptance.
And it's a trap.
People are exhausted, they'redepleted, but they keep going
because they think this is life,this is what life is.
That's what I thought.
(11:04):
I thought doing was what life,living a full life was about.
But living a full life is notfilling your schedule, it's
filling yourself.
And it's very hard for people tobreak the habits.
But I think one clue is numberone, if you're feeling really
(11:26):
depleted.
Number two, checking in withwhat are the choices that I
have.
You know, we have we need tomake money and have a job.
We have kids, we have response.
But around those, you havechoice.
And I think putting yourselffirst and giving yourself
permission to put yourself firstabove your kids, if you can,
(11:50):
because that models taking careof yourself for your kids, which
is critical.
It also models to them that, youknow, they aren't the center of
life throughout their life.
There's there are things they'regonna hear no.
I mean, it's such a differenttime for raising kids than it
was when I was growing up, whenyou were growing up.
(12:12):
I mean, I heard no a lot, andthat's okay.
That's there's a lot of no outthere.
But I think it's what is thecost?
What is it costing you to livethis crazy lifestyle?
And what can you do within theconstraints of the things that
you have to do to take bettercare of yourself and to give
(12:34):
yourself permission toprioritize yourself?
And that's something thatculturally we just especially as
women, we aren't given thatpermission.
We have these expectations, likerelax, take it easy.
Oh, but I want dinner to be madeand the house to be cleaned, you
know, and it's like, well, ifI'm exhausted, but if I don't do
(12:56):
it, it's not gonna do it itself,you know.
So I think waking up is is justthat awareness of what's going
on right now.
How do I feel?
What does how fulfilling is mylife?
What things bring me joy.
And for me, when I woke up, Iwas I thought I was kind of
(13:23):
aware in my life.
And then when I started to lookat and unpack the stories around
my illnesses, I was shocked.
I thought, you know, stayingsmall, staying in my house, not
doing things was reallybenefiting me.
And to an extent it was, but italso kept my world really small.
(13:45):
And I there was no challenging,well, maybe I could go for a
walk for a couple blocks.
Maybe it won't level me.
Why don't I try that?
You know, I had kind of createdthis prison and in my mind, in
addition to the prison in mybody.
And it was through that that Istarted to see, oh my gosh, all
(14:07):
these things that I thought wereserving me really were not
serving me.
And it made me feel like I'vebeen sleepwalking through life
because I've been living anarrative that's everybody
else's but my own.
So awareness is the first step,and doing something every day to
feed you, nourish you withcompassion and kindness and
(14:31):
acceptance because that willgive you the courage to say no,
to set boundaries, to prioritizeyourself.
But you have to give it toyourself rather than all the
effort to try and seek itexternally.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I
want to introduce you to theadventure sports lifestyle with
what I call a micro story aboutan adventure that I've had.
The adventure sports lifestyleand my deep connection to nature
is essential to my good health.
So here's the story (15:02):
Ski drawing.
Cross-country skiing with yourdog is a shared adventure that
brings health and socialbenefits to you both.
Many people dislike winter.
Nearly 19% of the globalpopulation say they experience
SAD or seasonal affectivedisorder.
Or winter sad, WSAD.
(15:24):
Ski drawing can effectivelyprevent and treat SAD.
Researchers agreed on twoconcepts.
First, get outside to enjoywinter activities.
Second, have a positive mindsettowards winter season.
These are two keys to escapingdepression in winter.
One of the lifestyle measuresrecommended by the National
(15:45):
Health Service suggests thatoutdoor recreation is one of the
most effective ways to preventand treat bad.
Learning a winter sport that youcan enjoy alone with your dog,
with family, or as a club like Ido, allows you to enjoy winter
as much as the warmer months.
I know my dog Phoebe loves toget out and ski jur with me.
(16:07):
And sometimes I cross-countryski alone.
In addition, according to thecompendium of physical
activities, a 150-pound or68-kilo cross-country skier will
burn about a thousand caloriesan hour by moving at about eight
miles an hour or 13 kilometersan hour or faster.
My advice is to get out thereand embrace winter for your
(16:30):
mental and physical health.
I hope this inspires you to getoutside adventure alone with
your pet or the people you lovemost.
Now, back to the show wherewe're talking with Heidi
Blackie.
You are preaching to the choirhere because I have seen it in
myself.
I saw it in my parents who hadfive children.
(16:51):
Three of them, the three in themiddle.
I'm the youngest and my olderbrother.
We didn't have any challenges.
We were like super easy to raiseand you know, self-starters.
And no one ever took me to atrack meet because, you know,
even though my parents had twocars, they were too busy with my
(17:12):
three siblings who were on thespectrum in the middle.
And so I saw the burnout in myparents.
I saw that they didn't take goodcare of themselves.
My dad worked a full-time joband owned a business.
And my mom had five children,three with special needs at
home.
(17:32):
And they were so exhausted bytheir 50s.
No one ever told them, you know,you could take some time for
yourself and just go compress orget a hobby or any of those
things, go to the spa or amassage or any of those things.
So just hearing you say thatparents need to take care of
(17:56):
themselves in addition to theirchildren, one, it lets parents
know that you can get off thattreadmill sometimes.
And that you also might want topull your children off the
treadmill because when they'rego, go, go, they don't have time
for self-reflection, just to geta little extra sleep, take a nap
(18:18):
if they need to, spend time justplaying with friends instead of
playing sports because sportsare competitive, which they
should be.
They teach us some veryimportant lessons by competing
and winning and losingsometimes.
But children are so busy, and weas adults are reinforcing this
pattern of not taking care ofourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
Yeah, and passing on the automatic patterns of
busyness is the goal.
That's achievement that's gonnaearn you success and happiness
and joy and satisfaction inlife.
And I think too, creativity, ifyou don't have space, creativity
(19:03):
is is so critical in our lives,and we we need the space for it
versus you know packing everymoment.
And even it's great going to thespa and great to get a massage,
but for a lot of people, theydon't have the time or the
resources, but it can be 10minutes in the backyard with I'm
(19:28):
off duty, I want to read my bookor relax or whatever, and just
be and not have to be doingsomething.
And I think it is such a greatmodel.
And you show up better foryourself and you show up better
for others, and there isn't thatresentment.
(19:49):
I think that's another piecethat is so prominent, and it's
it just builds and it takes aphysical toll, an emotional toll
as well.
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What are some of the ways thatand hit and hidden beliefs,
(21:04):
things that we're not evenconscious of, that keep us sick,
tired, stuck?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
I think it's that I have to do this.
This is what I have to do.
I have to work, I have to clean,I have to do this for the kids,
I have to cook every meal.
And it's this obligation, theseshoulds, and just going through
without stopping and thinkingabout okay, what do I need to
(21:35):
take care of myself?
And one of the critical thingsthat I did was I looked at my
stories and I looked at thebeliefs that were underlying
them, and I really scrutinizedthose beliefs.
Are they true?
Is that true?
I have to clean or I have tomake dinner.
(21:58):
No, I can order something out,or I can my house can be a
little dirtier, or you know, Ithink it's it's again, it's
really looking at do you ahundred is that a hundred
percent true?
And if there's a one percentthat isn't true, then then that
(22:20):
belief is not true.
So I think it's it's reallylooking at the places where we
are that keep the things thatkeep resurfacing for us, the
triggers, the things where wefeel like the the huge
obligation to do.
And I think those are the placesto kind of start and look at
(22:40):
what am I believing about myselfand my capacity?
Most of the beliefs about myillness were actually
future-based.
They weren't in the moment.
It was, oh my God, this symptommeans that I'm gonna have GI
symptoms for the next week and Ican't travel, and oh my gosh,
I'm I'm traveling somewhere andit's gonna be awful.
(23:03):
And it, you know, every symptomhad its own kind of meaning and
and forecast.
And if I want something to bedifferent, I have to change that
template from the past that I'vebeen operating on.
That hasn't happened yet.
(23:24):
But thinking about it happeningas the worst scenario is
actually going to make ithappen.
So it it's noticing, oh, that isin the future, it hasn't
happened.
That means that I have somecontrol over what I want to
believe about it and the meaningthat I assign this symptom.
And maybe there isn't meaning atall, and maybe it's just right
(23:46):
here, right now, and it may begone tomorrow, and it's gonna be
different.
So it was it was theseintentional interruptions in the
the previous patterns of beliefand thoughts and stories that
were, you know, okay, I need tochange that and and assign a
(24:08):
different belief to that becauseso much anxiety is about the
future.
That catastrophizing Yeah, andit hasn't happened.
So why not have an amazingoutcome?
Why not rehearse an amazingoutcome or an amazing process or
whatever, and have that be inyour mind versus the worst case
(24:33):
scenario?
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
So, Heidi, how do we find our hidden power in life's
darkest moments?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
It can be really hard, and I think it there's a
lot out there that creates thisidea that you know, do these
five things next time and it'llbe gone in five minutes, you
know, the the darkness.
But I think the things that havehelped me the most are
(25:04):
acceptance.
So accepting everything that'shere in this moment.
And acceptance doesn't mean thisis how it is, this is who you
are, this is your identity.
It's just it's the absence ofresistance, and resistance
creates that elevated nervoussystem, you know, sympathetic
(25:26):
nervous system.
And so acceptance of, okay, wow,this is really hard.
And not trying to have like thetoxic positivity of all right,
I'm fine, it's great, butacknowledging the darkness that
you are in, acknowledging theimpermanence, things, my world
felt so small.
(25:48):
I had no thoughts of being partof a larger world and a larger
world that really does careabout us.
And I and if you can remindyourself that you are part of a
larger world, this is animpermanent moment.
There will be another moment andanother moment and another
moment, and it can be different.
(26:08):
And you get to choose yourperspective, you get to choose
your response to this moment.
And I think that's a piece thatagain we've been taught to try
to distract, to control, to getaway from the uncomfortable
(26:30):
moments in life and theuncomfortable situations in life
and deny them.
And resistance actually helpsyou move through it much easier,
and creating that safety in yournervous system with the
acceptance and accepting you,you know, it a lot of times it's
the things that are inside of usthat we don't want to accept.
(26:54):
And that was my big thingbecause I don't, I'm a healthy,
robust athlete and an achiever.
I I'm not a sick person, and Iresisted for so long, even
though the evidence was allaround me that my life was
shrinking because of myillnesses.
And when I accepted all theparts of me, knowing that I'm so
(27:20):
big, I'm so much bigger thanthis little piece that's
anxious, or this little piecethat's sick, or this little
piece, and and giving love andcompassion to myself and
kindness allows me to see thosevulnerabilities and and to
really be okay with them becausewe're all human and you know
(27:44):
this is this is messy, it'slife.
And as crazy as it sounds, Ithink being vulnerable with
yourself is probably one of themost important things that you
can do for yourself, the mostimportant gifts, and accepting
and and being giving kindness towhat you find.
(28:04):
And I think if we could do thatin the world, everybody we'd be
in a better place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
You talk about humans being more capable than
they think.
And I have a similar philosophythat everything inside you
already exists that you need tocreate your new normal and live
the biggest life you can dream.
You've made that easier forwomen through the unshakable me
program.
Can you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what we've been talking
about in terms of the automaticpatterning and the conditioned
thinking and narratives that weface in our lives, in that you
have to work hard in order toachieve success.
You have to work your way up.
And certain people can docertain things.
(28:51):
I think there's a lot of, Imean, I would I when I was
racing my bike, I'd see a personthat I'm racing against.
Oh my gosh, she's so much betterthan me.
And it's like, that's nothelping you.
I'm actually really capable.
If I believe in myself and Ibelieve in my ability, my head
was the worst thing in racing mybike.
(29:13):
It wasn't so much even thephysical, but it was the
limitations I set in my mind ofI'm not as good as that person,
I'm not as strong or as fast.
But when you let go and you say,you know what, I'm feeling good
today, and I can beat thatperson, I can do this.
It just opens up so much morepossibility when you think that
(29:36):
way.
And we, and again, we have beentaught that, you know, what what
we can certain people can do.
And I'm not saying like I couldgo climb Mount Ephraist tomorrow
because you know, I'm believingI can.
I think you got to be a littlebit realistic, but I also think
pushing the boundaries to seewhat you're capable of is the
(29:59):
way.
To growth, and it'suncomfortable.
But it's amazing what you cando.
And I've I've been blown away bythe things that I'm doing.
I mean, old me would never be ona podcast right now.
I didn't want a wedding becauseI didn't want to be the center
of attention.
And I I'm just I this message isso important to me to can
(30:25):
connect with yourself and giveyourself compassion because it
just it yields so much for yourlife.
And that includes the rippleeffect to other people.
So so I'm stepping out of mycomfort zone all the time.
And and it builds self-trust andconfidence and joy and the
(30:47):
belief that I can do whatever Iset my mind to doing.
And setting the intention forthat.
It changes everything.
And then creating a vision.
So I never set out to create aprogram, but this is what I was
looking for back when I was inmy worst days.
(31:09):
And I was doing all these otherprograms, but they felt really
prescriptive because they were,you know, do this for a half
hour a day, do this, do that.
It wasn't, it didn't include meand my beliefs and my acceptance
and and just kind of uncoveringwho I am, you know, when when
(31:32):
all the layers are gone, what'sthere.
And through this process, I havekind of found this ally inside
of me.
And that's what I call myunshakable me.
And it's this force, it's a lifeforce, it's my spirit, and it's
(31:52):
the source of so much joy andcourage and encouragement and
love.
And I want this for everyonebecause when we're more
connected to ourselves, it's somuch easier to connect with
other people and feel connectedwith nature and this universe,
(32:15):
this beautiful world that welive in.
And I think I think that's thekey.
So this program is it's based onresearch as well as my
experience, and it's all thesteps that were the most pivotal
for me in my transformation.
It's looking at your stories andyour beliefs, acceptance, a
(32:40):
vision, a vision for your lifethat excites you, and choice,
attention, which is a big one.
What we pay attention to is somuch more important than we can
ever imagine.
And then intention, which isliving awake, living
consciously, making choices thatalign with who we want to be and
(33:00):
how we want to show up and whowe want to become.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
That's so inspiring, and I believe it's going to help
both men and women.
Is there anything else you'dlike to leave the listeners
with?
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
I think doing something kind for yourself
every day is a huge gift toyourself and to all the people
around you.
And knowing that you have thepermission to do that.
And you are enough.
And enoughness is if you've beenliving a long time thinking
(33:37):
you're not enough like I was,it's something that is like a
living being that you have tonourish every day with acts of
kindness and compassion andbelief in yourself and
acceptance.
And that can change your life.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Oh, I love that so much.
Men, please listen to what Heidisaid about rechange reframing
your life and women.
I hope you will get and join upwith the Unshakable Me program
and get started on your newjourney.
Thank you so much, Heidi, forjoining us today.
SPEAKER_01 (34:13):
Thank you so much for having me, Antoinette.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Until next time, friends, I'm Antoinette Lee,
your wellness warrior here atthe New Normal Big Life Podcast.
I hope one day to see you on theriver, in the backcountry, or in
the horse barn, living your bestlife.
Struggling with health problemsor seeking natural health
solutions?
Don't miss our latest podcastepisodes, exclusive blog posts,
and free ebooks packed withlife-changing wellness tips.
(34:38):
Join our newsletter at nnbl.blogto unpack this bonus content and
start living your biggest lifetoday.
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People are exhausted, they're depleted, but
they keep going because theythink this is life, this is what
life is.
That's what I thought.
I thought doing was what life,living a full life was about.
But living a full life is notfilling your schedule.
It's filling yourself.
(00:20):
And it's very hard for people tobreak the habits.
But I think one clue is numberone, if you're feeling really
depleted.
Number two, checking in withwhat are the choices that I
have.
You know, we have we need tomake money and have a job.
We have kids, we haveresponsibility.
(00:40):
But around those, you havechoice.
And I think putting yourselffirst and giving yourself
permission to put yourself firstabove your kids, if you can.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Hi friends, welcome to the New Normal Big Life
Podcast.
We bring you natural news andstories about nature that we
hope will inspire you to getoutside in adventure, along with
a step-by-step plan to help youpractice what you've learned and
create your own normal and livethe biggest life you can dream.
I'm your host, Antonate Lee, theWellness Warrior.
After chronic illness upendedher life, Heidi Blackie rebuilt
(01:15):
with resilience and power.
Her Unshakable Me programempowers women to heal past
wounds, shift limiting mindsets,and reclaim control.
But her insights resonate withmen too, offering universal
tools for growth.
Healing begins by confrontingemotional pain through practices
like journaling or therapy.
(01:36):
A growth-oriented mindset buildsoptimism and discipline, while
taking back power means settingboundaries and living
authentically.
With 25 years as an occupationaltherapist, Heidi guides
individuals to rediscoverstrength, providing hope and
practical strategies to facelife challenges with clarity and
joy.
(01:56):
Her journey reminds everyonewe're more capable than we
realize.
Let's dive into the healingmindset with Heidi Blackie.
Heidi, welcome to New Normal BigLife.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Thank you so much for having me, Antoinette.
I'm really excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
So you wrote about being caught in this relentless
cycle of doing and pushingthrough pain, leading to burnout
and despair, and I candefinitely relate to that.
Tell us what was your pivotalmoment.
Well, tell us the journey andinclude your pivotal moment when
you decided I've got to makesome changes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yeah, I I kind of grew up with a kind of doing
mindset.
You know, I'm I'm in my mid-50sand it's kind of the whole like
idle hands or the devil's workkind of a thing.
And so it was just, I was, thatwas what I was raised with.
(02:55):
That's kind of what I hadingrained in me.
And then when my mom went in2000, my mom was diagnosed with
cancer and she had a bone marrowtransplant.
And I took that to mean I gottasqueeze the marrow out of every
single day because I don't knowwhen it's my last.
(03:16):
So I started working severaljobs.
I was a competitive athlete.
I was very much a high achiever,part of my perfectionist
upbringing.
And I just felt this like lifeliving me from the moment I got
out of bed in the morning, myfeet hit the floor, I'd feel a
(03:36):
scarcity of time.
How am I gonna pack it all in?
And I just would go and go andgo.
And I had, I'm an occupationaltherapist.
I I treated thousands ofpatients, and I would always
ask, what do you do forrelaxation?
And they'd say, I don't havetime for relaxation.
And I said, I know, I lovemovement.
That's my relaxation.
(03:57):
And I kept going and going.
And I started to, my bodystarted to fall apart first with
injuries that wouldn't heal, andI'd patch myself up and keep on
going.
And then I started gettingillnesses, chronic illnesses
that would level me for weeks,then I would kind of patch
(04:17):
myself back up, and then I wouldget leveled again.
And those began increasing infrequency.
So I started to pare down mylife.
I stopped racing my bike and Istopped riding my bike because I
just didn't have the energy.
And I worked two jobs instead ofthree plus.
(04:38):
And it was enough for a coupleyears.
I was kind of living thissmaller life.
And then in 2016, I got hit withmassive stressors.
I lost my dog to cancer.
Two months later, I lost mysister to suicide.
And six weeks after that wasactually my wedding, which was a
(05:01):
whole survival, actually,because I was so, so, so, so
sick.
And then I lost my mom a yearlater to cancer, and I had lived
with my parents for her lastthree months, which was very
traumatic to see someone goingthrough such anguish.
And then several beyond that.
And so all these things thatwere going on in my body that
(05:24):
was tamping it down and justtrying to make it through were
just set on fire by all of thestress and it this inflammation
that was in every system of mybody.
I had brain fog, I had terriblefatigue, I had massive gut
issues.
I think I talked to you a littlebit about that.
(05:45):
And in 2021, I actually losteverything.
I lost my career.
I couldn't work at all.
I couldn't drive, I could barelyfind words.
I the words I found didn't makesense.
And I had no doctor, I had nodiagnosis, I had no path
forward.
And I was really scared andanxious.
(06:10):
And I was, I was the most aloneand the most full of despair
I've ever been in my life.
And I had, I remember sitting atmy kitchen table, and it was a
cold, dark, rainy Januarymorning, very gloomy here in
Seattle.
And I just thought, okay, you'reit.
What are you believing aboutyour ability to heal?
(06:32):
And in all these years, I hadnever turned the lens inward.
I knew there was a missingpiece, and I knew it was me, but
I had no idea how to turn thatlens.
And this absence of answersoutside of me really forced me
(06:54):
to look inward.
And the answer actually was thatI'm not gonna heal and I'm gonna
get sicker and I'm gonna getcancer and I'm gonna probably
not make it to 60.
And and I'd never been that rawwith myself before.
And that was a bitter pill.
That was really hard to swallow.
(07:16):
And I thought, if I don'tbelieve I can heal, I could find
the best doctor in the world,but I'm not gonna heal.
And I didn't believe in myself,and that was also kind of a
theme throughout my life.
And I committed to right here,right now, I'm gonna choose to
believe in myself and my botbody's ability to heal.
(07:38):
And I have no idea what thatlooks like, but I have this is I
have to, or I'm not gonna makeit.
So I started journaling.
I dove into the research on thebiology of belief, which there
is a ton of evidence.
I started meditating and doingmindfulness and movement.
(07:58):
I mean, I'm a big movementperson, but I was in bed most of
the time.
So it was just trying tointegrate small bits of movement
and just creating stories thatwere healing stories and and
eventually kind of going backthrough all the stories around
my illness as well as my life,and just kind of working on
(08:23):
rewriting those.
And it's been an incrediblejourney and and unexpected gems
along the way, but not easy.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
I promise you, you could have been telling my
story.
There are millions of listenersout there who are right now
going through what you aretalking about and what I have
experienced.
I remember before I began fixingmy biggest health challenges, I
was absolutely stuck on Go as acorporate CEO and an athlete.
(08:55):
I wasn't a competitive athleteby then, but still just go, go,
go, go, go.
And that was also around thestart of your tech company
expecting you to be always on24-7, 365.
Can you talk to us about how welive out patterns and stories on
(09:20):
autopilot?
Like just go, go, go, go, go,not really thinking about it
until we wake up and realizethat it's not serving us or the
deeper purpose of our lives.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout that?
How we fall into it and what wedo to wake up?
What steps do we use to create abetter life?
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
I think that it's it's everywhere.
It's in our upbringing, it's inour genetics.
You know, I think it's passeddown from generations, this
expectation that you have to doto be anybody.
And it's these patterns that weadopt as kids.
(09:58):
And most of us operate 95% ofour time out of these automatic
patterns.
Unless we realize it and realizethat we have choice, we aren't
going to change it.
And I think that, I mean, I seeit all around.
And I actually was talking to aneighbor about it last week with
(10:19):
her kids, and just how the kids,everybody orbits the kids.
They're the center, they theparents are driving them around
every weekend to games and andactivities, and there's no
downtime.
There's no downtime for thekids, and there's no downtime
for the adults.
And it's this pressure that wehave that is from other people.
(10:44):
This is how you live, this iswhat success is.
Being enough is not enough.
You have to earn it.
You have to earn this approval,you have to earn acceptance.
And it's a trap.
People are exhausted, they'redepleted, but they keep going
because they think this is life,this is what life is.
That's what I thought.
(11:04):
I thought doing was what life,living a full life was about.
But living a full life is notfilling your schedule, it's
filling yourself.
And it's very hard for people tobreak the habits.
But I think one clue is numberone, if you're feeling really
(11:26):
depleted.
Number two, checking in withwhat are the choices that I
have.
You know, we have we need tomake money and have a job.
We have kids, we have response.
But around those, you havechoice.
And I think putting yourselffirst and giving yourself
permission to put yourself firstabove your kids, if you can,
(11:50):
because that models taking careof yourself for your kids, which
is critical.
It also models to them that, youknow, they aren't the center of
life throughout their life.
There's there are things they'regonna hear no.
I mean, it's such a differenttime for raising kids than it
was when I was growing up, whenyou were growing up.
(12:12):
I mean, I heard no a lot, andthat's okay.
That's there's a lot of no outthere.
But I think it's what is thecost?
What is it costing you to livethis crazy lifestyle?
And what can you do within theconstraints of the things that
you have to do to take bettercare of yourself and to give
(12:34):
yourself permission toprioritize yourself?
And that's something thatculturally we just especially as
women, we aren't given thatpermission.
We have these expectations, likerelax, take it easy.
Oh, but I want dinner to be madeand the house to be cleaned, you
know, and it's like, well, ifI'm exhausted, but if I don't do
(12:56):
it, it's not gonna do it itself,you know.
So I think waking up is is justthat awareness of what's going
on right now.
How do I feel?
What does how fulfilling is mylife?
What things bring me joy.
And for me, when I woke up, Iwas I thought I was kind of
(13:23):
aware in my life.
And then when I started to lookat and unpack the stories around
my illnesses, I was shocked.
I thought, you know, stayingsmall, staying in my house, not
doing things was reallybenefiting me.
And to an extent it was, but italso kept my world really small.
(13:45):
And I there was no challenging,well, maybe I could go for a
walk for a couple blocks.
Maybe it won't level me.
Why don't I try that?
You know, I had kind of createdthis prison and in my mind, in
addition to the prison in mybody.
And it was through that that Istarted to see, oh my gosh, all
(14:07):
these things that I thought wereserving me really were not
serving me.
And it made me feel like I'vebeen sleepwalking through life
because I've been living anarrative that's everybody
else's but my own.
So awareness is the first step,and doing something every day to
feed you, nourish you withcompassion and kindness and
(14:31):
acceptance because that willgive you the courage to say no,
to set boundaries, to prioritizeyourself.
But you have to give it toyourself rather than all the
effort to try and seek itexternally.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I
want to introduce you to theadventure sports lifestyle with
what I call a micro story aboutan adventure that I've had.
The adventure sports lifestyleand my deep connection to nature
is essential to my good health.
So here's the story (15:02):
Ski drawing.
Cross-country skiing with yourdog is a shared adventure that
brings health and socialbenefits to you both.
Many people dislike winter.
Nearly 19% of the globalpopulation say they experience
SAD or seasonal affectivedisorder.
Or winter sad, WSAD.
(15:24):
Ski drawing can effectivelyprevent and treat SAD.
Researchers agreed on twoconcepts.
First, get outside to enjoywinter activities.
Second, have a positive mindsettowards winter season.
These are two keys to escapingdepression in winter.
One of the lifestyle measuresrecommended by the National
(15:45):
Health Service suggests thatoutdoor recreation is one of the
most effective ways to preventand treat bad.
Learning a winter sport that youcan enjoy alone with your dog,
with family, or as a club like Ido, allows you to enjoy winter
as much as the warmer months.
I know my dog Phoebe loves toget out and ski jur with me.
(16:07):
And sometimes I cross-countryski alone.
In addition, according to thecompendium of physical
activities, a 150-pound or68-kilo cross-country skier will
burn about a thousand caloriesan hour by moving at about eight
miles an hour or 13 kilometersan hour or faster.
My advice is to get out thereand embrace winter for your
(16:30):
mental and physical health.
I hope this inspires you to getoutside adventure alone with
your pet or the people you lovemost.
Now, back to the show wherewe're talking with Heidi
Blackie.
You are preaching to the choirhere because I have seen it in
myself.
I saw it in my parents who hadfive children.
(16:51):
Three of them, the three in themiddle.
I'm the youngest and my olderbrother.
We didn't have any challenges.
We were like super easy to raiseand you know, self-starters.
And no one ever took me to atrack meet because, you know,
even though my parents had twocars, they were too busy with my
(17:12):
three siblings who were on thespectrum in the middle.
And so I saw the burnout in myparents.
I saw that they didn't take goodcare of themselves.
My dad worked a full-time joband owned a business.
And my mom had five children,three with special needs at
home.
(17:32):
And they were so exhausted bytheir 50s.
No one ever told them, you know,you could take some time for
yourself and just go compress orget a hobby or any of those
things, go to the spa or amassage or any of those things.
So just hearing you say thatparents need to take care of
(17:56):
themselves in addition to theirchildren, one, it lets parents
know that you can get off thattreadmill sometimes.
And that you also might want topull your children off the
treadmill because when they'rego, go, go, they don't have time
for self-reflection, just to geta little extra sleep, take a nap
(18:18):
if they need to, spend time justplaying with friends instead of
playing sports because sportsare competitive, which they
should be.
They teach us some veryimportant lessons by competing
and winning and losingsometimes.
But children are so busy, and weas adults are reinforcing this
pattern of not taking care ofourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
Yeah, and passing on the automatic patterns of
busyness is the goal.
That's achievement that's gonnaearn you success and happiness
and joy and satisfaction inlife.
And I think too, creativity, ifyou don't have space, creativity
(19:03):
is is so critical in our lives,and we we need the space for it
versus you know packing everymoment.
And even it's great going to thespa and great to get a massage,
but for a lot of people, theydon't have the time or the
resources, but it can be 10minutes in the backyard with I'm
(19:28):
off duty, I want to read my bookor relax or whatever, and just
be and not have to be doingsomething.
And I think it is such a greatmodel.
And you show up better foryourself and you show up better
for others, and there isn't thatresentment.
(19:49):
I think that's another piecethat is so prominent, and it's
it just builds and it takes aphysical toll, an emotional toll
as well.
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
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What are some of the ways thatand hit and hidden beliefs,
(21:04):
things that we're not evenconscious of, that keep us sick,
tired, stuck?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
I think it's that I have to do this.
This is what I have to do.
I have to work, I have to clean,I have to do this for the kids,
I have to cook every meal.
And it's this obligation, theseshoulds, and just going through
without stopping and thinkingabout okay, what do I need to
(21:35):
take care of myself?
And one of the critical thingsthat I did was I looked at my
stories and I looked at thebeliefs that were underlying
them, and I really scrutinizedthose beliefs.
Are they true?
Is that true?
I have to clean or I have tomake dinner.
(21:58):
No, I can order something out,or I can my house can be a
little dirtier, or you know, Ithink it's it's again, it's
really looking at do you ahundred is that a hundred
percent true?
And if there's a one percentthat isn't true, then then that
(22:20):
belief is not true.
So I think it's it's reallylooking at the places where we
are that keep the things thatkeep resurfacing for us, the
triggers, the things where wefeel like the the huge
obligation to do.
And I think those are the placesto kind of start and look at
(22:40):
what am I believing about myselfand my capacity?
Most of the beliefs about myillness were actually
future-based.
They weren't in the moment.
It was, oh my God, this symptommeans that I'm gonna have GI
symptoms for the next week and Ican't travel, and oh my gosh,
I'm I'm traveling somewhere andit's gonna be awful.
(23:03):
And it, you know, every symptomhad its own kind of meaning and
and forecast.
And if I want something to bedifferent, I have to change that
template from the past that I'vebeen operating on.
That hasn't happened yet.
(23:24):
But thinking about it happeningas the worst scenario is
actually going to make ithappen.
So it it's noticing, oh, that isin the future, it hasn't
happened.
That means that I have somecontrol over what I want to
believe about it and the meaningthat I assign this symptom.
And maybe there isn't meaning atall, and maybe it's just right
(23:46):
here, right now, and it may begone tomorrow, and it's gonna be
different.
So it was it was theseintentional interruptions in the
the previous patterns of beliefand thoughts and stories that
were, you know, okay, I need tochange that and and assign a
(24:08):
different belief to that becauseso much anxiety is about the
future.
That catastrophizing Yeah, andit hasn't happened.
So why not have an amazingoutcome?
Why not rehearse an amazingoutcome or an amazing process or
whatever, and have that be inyour mind versus the worst case
(24:33):
scenario?
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
So, Heidi, how do we find our hidden power in life's
darkest moments?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
It can be really hard, and I think it there's a
lot out there that creates thisidea that you know, do these
five things next time and it'llbe gone in five minutes, you
know, the the darkness.
But I think the things that havehelped me the most are
(25:04):
acceptance.
So accepting everything that'shere in this moment.
And acceptance doesn't mean thisis how it is, this is who you
are, this is your identity.
It's just it's the absence ofresistance, and resistance
creates that elevated nervoussystem, you know, sympathetic
(25:26):
nervous system.
And so acceptance of, okay, wow,this is really hard.
And not trying to have like thetoxic positivity of all right,
I'm fine, it's great, butacknowledging the darkness that
you are in, acknowledging theimpermanence, things, my world
felt so small.
(25:48):
I had no thoughts of being partof a larger world and a larger
world that really does careabout us.
And I and if you can remindyourself that you are part of a
larger world, this is animpermanent moment.
There will be another moment andanother moment and another
moment, and it can be different.
(26:08):
And you get to choose yourperspective, you get to choose
your response to this moment.
And I think that's a piece thatagain we've been taught to try
to distract, to control, to getaway from the uncomfortable
(26:30):
moments in life and theuncomfortable situations in life
and deny them.
And resistance actually helpsyou move through it much easier,
and creating that safety in yournervous system with the
acceptance and accepting you,you know, it a lot of times it's
the things that are inside of usthat we don't want to accept.
(26:54):
And that was my big thingbecause I don't, I'm a healthy,
robust athlete and an achiever.
I I'm not a sick person, and Iresisted for so long, even
though the evidence was allaround me that my life was
shrinking because of myillnesses.
And when I accepted all theparts of me, knowing that I'm so
(27:20):
big, I'm so much bigger thanthis little piece that's
anxious, or this little piecethat's sick, or this little
piece, and and giving love andcompassion to myself and
kindness allows me to see thosevulnerabilities and and to
really be okay with them becausewe're all human and you know
(27:44):
this is this is messy, it'slife.
And as crazy as it sounds, Ithink being vulnerable with
yourself is probably one of themost important things that you
can do for yourself, the mostimportant gifts, and accepting
and and being giving kindness towhat you find.
(28:04):
And I think if we could do thatin the world, everybody we'd be
in a better place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
You talk about humans being more capable than
they think.
And I have a similar philosophythat everything inside you
already exists that you need tocreate your new normal and live
the biggest life you can dream.
You've made that easier forwomen through the unshakable me
program.
Can you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what we've been talking
about in terms of the automaticpatterning and the conditioned
thinking and narratives that weface in our lives, in that you
have to work hard in order toachieve success.
You have to work your way up.
And certain people can docertain things.
(28:51):
I think there's a lot of, Imean, I would I when I was
racing my bike, I'd see a personthat I'm racing against.
Oh my gosh, she's so much betterthan me.
And it's like, that's nothelping you.
I'm actually really capable.
If I believe in myself and Ibelieve in my ability, my head
was the worst thing in racing mybike.
(29:13):
It wasn't so much even thephysical, but it was the
limitations I set in my mind ofI'm not as good as that person,
I'm not as strong or as fast.
But when you let go and you say,you know what, I'm feeling good
today, and I can beat thatperson, I can do this.
It just opens up so much morepossibility when you think that
(29:36):
way.
And we, and again, we have beentaught that, you know, what what
we can certain people can do.
And I'm not saying like I couldgo climb Mount Ephraist tomorrow
because you know, I'm believingI can.
I think you got to be a littlebit realistic, but I also think
pushing the boundaries to seewhat you're capable of is the
(29:59):
way.
To growth, and it'suncomfortable.
But it's amazing what you cando.
And I've I've been blown away bythe things that I'm doing.
I mean, old me would never be ona podcast right now.
I didn't want a wedding becauseI didn't want to be the center
of attention.
And I I'm just I this message isso important to me to can
(30:25):
connect with yourself and giveyourself compassion because it
just it yields so much for yourlife.
And that includes the rippleeffect to other people.
So so I'm stepping out of mycomfort zone all the time.
And and it builds self-trust andconfidence and joy and the
(30:47):
belief that I can do whatever Iset my mind to doing.
And setting the intention forthat.
It changes everything.
And then creating a vision.
So I never set out to create aprogram, but this is what I was
looking for back when I was inmy worst days.
(31:09):
And I was doing all these otherprograms, but they felt really
prescriptive because they were,you know, do this for a half
hour a day, do this, do that.
It wasn't, it didn't include meand my beliefs and my acceptance
and and just kind of uncoveringwho I am, you know, when when
(31:32):
all the layers are gone, what'sthere.
And through this process, I havekind of found this ally inside
of me.
And that's what I call myunshakable me.
And it's this force, it's a lifeforce, it's my spirit, and it's
(31:52):
the source of so much joy andcourage and encouragement and
love.
And I want this for everyonebecause when we're more
connected to ourselves, it's somuch easier to connect with
other people and feel connectedwith nature and this universe,
(32:15):
this beautiful world that welive in.
And I think I think that's thekey.
So this program is it's based onresearch as well as my
experience, and it's all thesteps that were the most pivotal
for me in my transformation.
It's looking at your stories andyour beliefs, acceptance, a
(32:40):
vision, a vision for your lifethat excites you, and choice,
attention, which is a big one.
What we pay attention to is somuch more important than we can
ever imagine.
And then intention, which isliving awake, living
consciously, making choices thatalign with who we want to be and
(33:00):
how we want to show up and whowe want to become.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
That's so inspiring, and I believe it's going to help
both men and women.
Is there anything else you'dlike to leave the listeners
with?
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
I think doing something kind for yourself
every day is a huge gift toyourself and to all the people
around you.
And knowing that you have thepermission to do that.
And you are enough.
And enoughness is if you've beenliving a long time thinking
(33:37):
you're not enough like I was,it's something that is like a
living being that you have tonourish every day with acts of
kindness and compassion andbelief in yourself and
acceptance.
And that can change your life.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Oh, I love that so much.
Men, please listen to what Heidisaid about rechange reframing
your life and women.
I hope you will get and join upwith the Unshakable Me program
and get started on your newjourney.
Thank you so much, Heidi, forjoining us today.
SPEAKER_01 (34:13):
Thank you so much for having me, Antoinette.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Until next time, friends, I'm Antoinette Lee,
your wellness warrior here atthe New Normal Big Life Podcast.
I hope one day to see you on theriver, in the backcountry, or in
the horse barn, living your bestlife.
Struggling with health problemsor seeking natural health
solutions?
Don't miss our latest podcastepisodes, exclusive blog posts,
and free ebooks packed withlife-changing wellness tips.
(34:38):
Join our newsletter at nnbl.blogto unpack this bonus content and
start living your biggest lifetoday.
Magnesium, an unsung hero, fuelsover 300 bodily reactions from
heart health to stress relief.
Magnesium expert Natalie Girado,founder of Rooted In, found
freedom from anxiety, insomnia,and pain through topical
(35:01):
magnesium.
It transformed my life, shesays, inspiring her mission to
share this mineral's power.
Cardiologist Dr.
Jack Wolfson calls magnesiumessential for heart health,
helping regulate rhythms, bloodsugar, and reduce inflammation.
Up to 80% of people may bedeficient facing issues like
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After interviewing magnesiumexpert Natalie Girado, I became
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Natalie explains it best in theMagnesium the Mineral
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in Alternative Health on ApplePodcasts.
Listen wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Fast forward after theinterview, I bought the Rooted
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As a spine injury survivor withseveral other health challenges,
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You can find magnesium innatural bodies of water like
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That's why today, Rooted Innsrest, relief, and tranquility
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My guy who did two tours kickingindoors in a rock with the
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