October 7, 2025 • 45 mins
What if the fastest way to strength is letting go of what’s living rent-free in your head? We sit down with best-selling author and forgiveness mentor Katharine Giovanni to unpack a clear path to release anger, dissolve triggers, and reclaim energy without giving anyone a pass. No platitudes, no pressure to reconcile — just a step-by-step method that works in real life, backed by neuroscience and grounded in compassion. You'll find the complete process in this episode.
Giovanni shares the “anger cup” visual that explains how resentment quietly steals focus, opportunities, and joy. Then we get practical with her Two Lists Method: one for people you need to forgive, and another for people who need to forgive you. The twist is powerful — don’t just forgive people, forgive the energy around people, places, dates, and objects tied to painful memories. That’s how you cut the cord to triggers, sleep better, and think clearly. We also demystify the toughest part: self-forgiveness. For veterans, medics, law enforcement, and first responders carrying “what ifs,” Giovanni offers a strategic route that starts by forgiving everything but yourself, then slowly moves toward forgiving the energy around you.
Along the way, we explore why forgiveness improves mental health, heart health, and sleep; how to pace the work to avoid emotional overload; and why boundaries get stronger — not weaker — when you release old hurts. Giovanni’s
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
New normal big life.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
They're absolutely wrong.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I have boundaries in place.
Well, Catherine, they don'tdeserve my forgiveness.
No, they don't.
Absolutely, they don't fordeserve your forgiveness.
You're not doing it for them.
They're gonna continue doingwhatever it is they're going to
do.
And if they have amends to make,they're gonna still have to make
(00:27):
those amends.
You're doing it for you.
You're not doing it for them.
You're doing it because they'reinside your head.
Okay, well, here's the big one.
Just because I forgive you, Idon't want to admit that I'm now
giving you a pass.
Now I'm if I if I forgive you,it means that I'm admitting you
were right and I was wrong.
(00:49):
Wrong.
They're still wrong.
They're still a dumpster fire.
You're not doing it for them.
It doesn't mean you're givingin.
It means you're showing yourstrength.
You're doing it for you.
Here is the big, huge definitionfrom my perspective.
Forgiveness means I want you outof my head.
I want you gone.
(01:09):
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop the triggers.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
I want you out of my head.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Imagine carrying a backpack stuffed with bricks
from every betrayal, everyslight, until one day you drop
it all and sprint towardfreedom.
That's the raw power offorgiveness.
Not as a soft-hearted gesture,but as a strategic unlock for
your deepest potential, drawingfrom neuroscience backed
(01:36):
breakthroughs and real lifetriumphs.
This episode reveals how lettinggo isn't weakness.
It's your edge in leadership,relationships, and self-mastery.
Best-selling author, forgivenesscoach, and transformation mentor
Catherine Giovanni shares herproven path to forgiveness,
proven that forgiving theunforgivable catapults you from
(01:59):
surviving to thriving.
Ready to shed the weight of thepain you're holding on to?
Your breakthrough starts herewith action steps you can take
today.
Let's dive in.
Hi friends, welcome to the NewNormal Big Life Podcast.
We bring you natural news andstories about nature that we
hope will inspire you to getoutside in adventure, along with
(02:20):
a step-by-step plan to help youpractice what you've learned and
create your own new normal andlive the biggest life you can
dream.
I'm your host, Antoinette Lee,the Wellness Warrior.
Before we get started, I wannagive a shout out to Sun, a new
listener.
Son, it makes me so happy toknow that you, a 53-year-old
(02:40):
woman, learned how importantgrip strength is as an indicator
of your overall health.
Thank you for the kind words andthe five-star review on Apple
Podcasts.
I appreciate you, my new friend.
Today, we're talking about thehealing power of forgiveness and
how letting go can restore yourspirit and health.
In the high-stakes arena ofmodern leadership and in always
(03:04):
on life, where burnout lurkslike a shadow and grudges fester
into career and relationshipkillers.
One overlooked tool stands readyto redefine your trajectory,
forgiveness.
Not the Hallmark card version,but a deliberate science forge
practice that dismantlesemotional barriers and unleashes
(03:28):
unbridled momentum.
Picture this (03:30):
a C-suite executive chained to a
decade-old betrayal by a formermentor, watching opportunities
slip away while resent meslippers beneath boardroom
poise, or an adult holding ontoa painful childhood memory from
an unforgivable act that seepinto their presence.
(03:51):
Veterans, law enforcement, andfirst responders living with the
trauma of those they can'tforgive or actions they wish
they could do over for a betteror different outcome can find
relief.
You'll learn how, startingtoday, in a guided release, the
chains can shatter, paving theway for a promotion that once
(04:12):
seemed impossible, betterrelationships with those you
love, and greater love foryourself.
This isn't fiction, it's thealchemy of forgiveness at work.
At its core, forgiveness rewiresthe brain's threat response,
trading chronic stress forclarity and resilience.
Harwood Health reports thatembracing forgiveness correlates
(04:34):
with measurably lower levels ofdepression, anxiety, and
hostility alongside reducedsubstance abuse, elevated
self-esteem, and amplified lifesatisfaction.
It's no mirrored platitude.
John Hopkins Medicineunderscores how this act slashes
heart, heart attack risk,optimizes cholesterol, and
(04:57):
enhances sleep quality, vital toyour overall good health.
Let's meet our guest, CatherineGiovanni.
Catherine Giovanni is athree-time award-winning
best-selling author,international speaker, and
transformation mentor with morethan two decades of experience.
She helps people find peace,healing, and hope.
(05:17):
The author of 16 books,including The Ultimate Path to
Forgiveness, Unlocking YourPower.
Catherine is best known forguiding people through her
simple step-by-step forgivenessprocess because everyone tells
us to forgive, but no oneteaches us how.
A breast cancer survivor andsomeone who has overcome
(05:39):
significant personal challenges,she brings warmth, compassion,
and practical wisdom to helpothers release guilt and shame,
reconnect with their faith andinner strength, and step into a
lighter, freer way of living.
When she isn't writing orspeaking, Catherine enjoys time
with her family, caring for herplants, including grandpa, her
(06:01):
beloved 32-year-old houseplant.
Wow, that's a green thumb.
And adding to her ever-growingstack of books.
Hi, Catherine.
Welcome to New Normal Big Life.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
So, what I find is that most people who are
intentional about what they dofor a career, they are looking
to solve a problem or be theperson they needed most in their
life when they had some kind ofchallenge.
How did you come into becoming atransformation mentor?
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Well, the fact that I call myself a transformation
and forgiveness mentor impliesthat the universe, which has an
incredibly bad sense of humor,has gifted me with more than my
fair share of things to forgive.
Let's just say that.
So that's how I kind of came.
I come from, I could just say itfast, I come from a
(06:53):
dysfunctional family.
Both parents were alcoholics.
I was terribly bullied inschool, tried to commit suicide
in the eighth grade, turned intoone of those teenagers, you
know, had one friend draped inblack, that kind of thing.
But I lived in New York City andeverybody was draped in black.
So I'm not sure I should keepsaying that, right?
And then I, you know, I kind ofdrifted through life until my
(07:16):
mother fell down a flight ofstairs, broke her hip, and ended
up in the hospital.
And even my mother couldn't geta gin and tonic in the hospital.
So she dried out, went to rehab,and we spent the next three
years tighter than tight, closerthan sisters, practically
finished each other's sentences.
We forgave each other.
We we did everything that wesqueezed as much life into those
(07:38):
three years as we could, andthen she died of breast cancer,
which I eventually got in 2012.
And I don't carry the gene, sofigure that one out.
But I knew without a shadow of adoubt that if I didn't change my
life, I was gonna die too.
So I quit drinking.
I've been sober now for 35years, maybe it was the it was
(08:01):
the only New Year's resolution Iever kept.
And that's kind of howeverything started.
I tell people all the time,everybody, 10 out of 10 people,
have what I call a flash pointin their life.
And it's the one moment when youlook back at it, hindsight is
2020, you could identify thatmoment that your life completely
(08:22):
changed.
Didn't know it at the time, butwhen you look back, it's like,
you know, if that hadn'thappened, this hadn't happened.
My mother's death, as horribleas it was, was my flashpoint.
And everything kind of stemsfrom there.
SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
Wow, that's an incredible journey.
If we have time, I'd like to askyou some questions about breast
cancer uh survival.
And if not, then I'd love tobring you back on another time
to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Happy to.
So when I think of atransformation mentor, I get
several images.
What exactly does atransformation mentor do?
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
In my world, it's transforming you from the person
you think you are today to yourauthentic self, the person you
came to the planet to be.
The only reason you are not thatperson, some people are that
person, but many people are not,is because of anger and lack of
(09:23):
forgiveness, unforgiveness.
And you have so many things inyour past, anger is acting like
a shield, and it's preventingyou from being your authentic
self.
Now I can I have a visual.
If you're listening to thisbroadcast, I'm gonna talk you
through it, so it's okay.
I'm holding a purple coffee cupoff to the side of my body.
(09:46):
This coffee cup represents angerand resentment and all the bad
things.
But look at my body language.
You and I can have, I can managemy anger, I can hold it off to
the side.
It's easy, it's not heavy.
I got this.
And you can say, you know,Catherine, you we got to talk
about your anger.
And I was like, nah, I got this.
But here's the thing abouthumans: if we don't take any
(10:09):
anger out of this little cup,we're gonna keep adding anger
into it because humans irritateother humans and family really
messes you up.
So eventually it's gonna startto get heavy.
So now look at my body language.
I can still conduct my life, butI'm I'm taking two hands to hold
up this cup.
It's starting to get into mybrain.
(10:30):
It's starting to come into mylanguage.
It's I'm starting to tellstories about my past and my
story.
Look what I went through.
If I continue to hold on to thecup and I still don't forgive
and I still don't release any ofthat anger, now I'm holding the
cup in front of my face.
My life has stopped pretty much.
It's all I can talk about, it'sall I can think about.
(10:51):
I'm losing friends because it'sall I'm just talking about my
story.
My dream relationship justwalked into the room and I
missed it because I was sofocused on my anger.
I didn't see it.
A huge money-making opportunityjust walked in and I missed it.
So my forgiveness system, whichis a very easy step-by-step
(11:12):
system, is going to allow youto, if at the first part you use
it, now the cup is back off tothe side.
My life has started to open upagain.
I could see things.
And eventually, if you keep atit, eventually you could put
your cup down.
Now I can see the opportunities.
Now I can be my authentic self.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Catherine, that was very powerful.
And you actually have a 10-dayforgiveness program coming up
soon on October 20th.
Can you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
It's a 10-day program.
Now you can get the forgivenesssystem in my book, and you can
go to and you can listen tothis, to this uh podcast because
I'm going to go through thisstep by step.
But it's a 10-day class that'sgoing to arrive in your email
box and it's going to take youthrough my forgiveness system
step by step, as this as if I'mkind of sitting there right with
(12:03):
you.
And it's a 10-day class becauseI don't think I think maybe 10
days is probably enough.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
I love that because some people spend years and
years in therapy, talk therapy,and still are not able to move
forward in their lives and getpast the unforgivable.
Can you tell us a little bitabout why we need to forgive, in
addition to what you alreadysaid?
(12:32):
Do you have any thoughts aboutwhat it does to your body from a
chemical basis and the kind ofinflammation that it creates and
the health challenges that itcreates when you don't forgive?
One of the reasons I'm askingthis question is because I know
that a lot of our listeners areformer military and law
(12:53):
enforcement.
So we have veterans, we haveLeos, we have first responders.
And sometimes when you have atrauma from losing someone
significant to you or not beingable to help someone enough or
save someone, that can create alot of guilt.
Can you speak to the importanceof forgiveness as it relates to
(13:17):
your overall health?
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Sure.
I have science to back myselfup.
When we talk about forgivenesson a 10 scale, with 10 being an
unforgivable dumpster fire andone being the easiest person in
the world to forgive, 10 out of10 of the people watching and
listening to this podcast,everybody, including yourself,
(13:39):
is thinking of their number 10unforgivable person.
Everybody across the board.
That's why you don't want toforgive, because they don't
deserve it and you don't wantto.
So I'm the only one in the worldthat's going to look at you dead
in the eye and say, you don'thave to forgive the
unforgivable.
Stay with me.
Don't click off.
The reason you don't have toforgive the unforgivable is
(14:00):
because there's a lot of people,places, and things.
I did say places and things.
Again, just hang with me, thatyou can forgive before you even
get to that dumpster fire.
My system's going to start youwith the easy ones.
There's also a few principlesthat people bandy around that
are absolutely wrong.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
(14:20):
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I have boundaries in place.
Well, Catherine, they don'tdeserve my forgiveness.
No, they don't.
Absolutely, they don't fordeserve your forgiveness.
You're not doing it for them.
They're going to continue doingwhatever it is they're going to
do.
And if they have amends to make,they're going to still have to
make those amends.
You're doing it for you.
You're not doing it for them.
(14:41):
You're doing it because they'reinside your head.
Okay, well, here's the big one.
Just because I forgive you, Idon't want to admit that I'm now
giving you a pass.
Now I'm if I if I forgive you,it means that I'm admitting you
were right and I was wrong.
Wrong.
They're still wrong.
(15:02):
They're still a dumpster fire.
You're not doing it for them.
It doesn't mean you're givingin.
It means you're showing yourstrength.
You're doing it for you.
Here is the big, huge definitionfrom my perspective.
Forgiveness means I want you outof my head.
I want you gone.
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop the triggers.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
(15:24):
I want you out of my head.
So holding on to the anger, whatdoes that do to your body?
There was a study done by, and Inever can get this gentleman's
name.
I have a block against it.
I think it's Hasumoto, somethinglike that.
But it's called the JapaneseWater Study.
It's right in the front firstpage of Google Search.
You'll get it right away.
It's called the Japanese WaterStudy.
I think he even wrote a bookabout it.
(15:45):
In the interest of time, I'llsay it quickly.
He took two containers of water.
One container of water, all hedid was talk to it.
He said these beautiful, I loveyou.
You're beautiful.
He said the most beautiful wordsto it.
The other container of water,all he spoke was hate.
The most hateful things you cansay out loud, he said to this
water.
(16:06):
He then froze the water and heput it under a microscope and
took a look.
The water that he froze that hespoke love to had these gorgeous
snowflake transformations.
The pictures are right onGoogle.
They're fascinating.
The water he spoke hate to hadthese black, sick kind of
malformations that looked likeit was eating itself.
(16:26):
Why am I telling you this?
The human body is over 95%water.
So when you're filled withself-doubt and your self-talk is
horrible and you're filled withhate and anger and resentment,
what do you think you're doingto the water cells within your
old body?
You're literally making yourselfsick from the inside out.
(16:47):
So by using my system, andthere's a secret sauce to it
that nobody's figured out thatwe've embedded into it, which
I'll tell you about, is going toallow you to start changing
those water cells in your bodyso you can breathe again and you
can be free and experience joy.
Joy.
Remember joy?
Yeah, joy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
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That's the real thing that somany people don't realize that
they're robbing themselves ofthe joy they could be
experiencing.
Yeah.
Especially people who worked incareers where you are around a
lot of traumatic experiences andmay even have physical trauma
(18:56):
from the work that you've done.
It seems like it's a little biteasier for me in my own mind to
forgive someone that has wrongedme to be able to let go of that
experience.
So it's not keeping holdingrent-free real estate in my
head.
(19:16):
However, it's a little bitharder in my mind to forgive
someone that I feel like maybe Ilet them down because, for
example, as a medic, there aretimes where no matter what I
could have done or what anyonecould have done for that person,
there just wasn't enough time tosave their life under those
(19:38):
conditions.
And so it's difficult to forgiveyourself for not being, I don't
know, more capable, moresomething in that moment.
How do you forgive yourself whenthe loss is so profound and you
feel like you're the person whodid something in air quotes
(19:59):
wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Well, I'm gonna go through the forgiveness system
and that's gonna answer yourquestion.
We're gonna do two lists.
We're gonna do one list ofpeople that you need to forgive,
right?
Your, you know, whatever yourunforgivable people and the easy
people.
The second list is gonna be alist of people that need to
(20:20):
forgive you.
Okay.
So what I want everybody to do,the special sauce to the whole
thing is the read I have peoplecoming up to me all the time
that say, you know, Catherine, Idid do the work, I did forgive
them, but they didn't stayforgiven.
I can, you know, I'll go intothe bakery and I'll smell the
(20:40):
apple pie and I'll immediatelythink of my mother, and
everything comes right back.
I keep getting triggered.
I walk by a building and I gotfired in that building, and I
spend the next day reallyirritated, that kind of thing.
Well, that's because you didn'tforgive the energy.
Science is proving thateverything on our planet has
energy around it, including thislittle silver microphone.
(21:01):
Everything has an energy fieldaround it, absolutely
everything.
And everybody thinks that whenyou get angry, actually, nobody
thinks this, but if you did,this is what you would assume.
You when you get angry, thewords leave your mouth and
dissipate into the universe.
They do not, they hang aroundyour energy field until you
can't carry.
(21:21):
Remember the cup?
It hangs around your energyfield.
And it's gonna stay there untilyou clear it.
So you're literally walkingaround in a little black cloud
and you don't even know it.
So by forgiving the energy whichis tying you to the last person
on earth that you want to betied to, that's gonna cut the
cord.
That's gonna cut the energy.
(21:42):
So when you forgive this person,it's it's permanent.
So you can go on social mediaand you can see the person's
name, or you can see the eventthat happened, and it won't
trigger you.
You're not gonna get upset,you're not gonna care good,
you're not gonna care bad,you're not gonna care.
Happen.
I'm a serial entrepreneurbecause of course I am.
(22:03):
And I've written a lot of booksand I had a lot of business
partners because I'm just thatold.
And one in particular did realdamage at one point.
She did.
And I was that mad at her foryears, and she was one of my
number tens.
And using my system, which I'mgonna talk about, I got her down
to a forgivable letter and Itossed it.
It was her birthday, couldn'tremember.
(22:23):
I was on Facebook and I saw hername.
Usually seeing her name wouldsend me to the ceiling, and
you'd have to peel me back, andI'd have to call my bestie and
say, You're gonna have to peelme off the ceiling.
Here's why.
This day, I didn't care.
And I caught myself and Ithought, wait a minute, I don't
care.
I don't care.
(22:44):
That's freedom, that's joy.
That means they're out of yourhead.
So, what I want everybody to dois I want you to here's the
hardest part of the wholesystem.
I kind of want you to turn yourcell phone off.
This is the hardest part.
And if you can't turn your cellphone off, just turn the volume
off or leave it in another roomor something.
What I really want is I want youalone for a few minutes.
(23:04):
No dogs, no cats, no, I want nohumans.
I want you alone.
Get a pad of paper and a pen oryour laptop.
It doesn't bother me.
And the pad of paper and pen isactually better.
It's not because I'm old school.
There was a study done atHarvard University that followed
some kids through the years.
One group of kids was told, justsay your goals out loud to the
(23:26):
room.
The other group of kids wastold, write your goals down on a
piece of paper with a pen.
The kids that wrote their goalsdown in the paper twice as
successful later in life thanthe kids who didn't.
So some kind of magic happenswhen it goes from your head down
your arm onto a piece of paper.
So what I want you to do is Iwant you to write a list of all
the people you think you need toforgive.
(23:48):
The first five people are goingto be unforgivable people.
I get that.
I did it too.
I've done this exercise.
I on my own guinea pig.
That's fine.
But I want you to keep going.
I want you to remember theperson who cut you off yesterday
on I-95 South.
Forgive that person.
I want you to write down theperson who stained your sweater
in high school.
Forgive that person.
(24:08):
Write that person's name down.
Don't judge the list.
Just write random names.
The people you used to workwith, you know, all of these
names.
Write a list.
The person who cut you off inaisle five of the grocery store
yesterday.
Come on now.
You can forgive that person.
The lunchroom sandwich thief.
Write that down.
You can forgive that person whosteals your sandwich every day.
(24:29):
Don't put hot sauce in it andjust sit gleefully in the corner
and watch them die.
Just forgive them.
Put them on the list.
Then I want you to take the listand I want you to rate these
people between one and ten.
One being super easy, ten beinghorrible, unforgivable.
You could have seven numbereights.
(24:51):
I don't care.
You could skip a number.
I also really don't care.
It's your list.
However, what I really careabout is that you start with the
easy ones and you work your wayup to the number tens.
Number tens are a bear.
And we're going to talk abouthow to forgive the unforgivable
because there's a little trickto it.
(25:11):
And they're they're hard.
So I want you to start with thenumber ones because it's going
to start to anybody labeledbetween one and seven is going
to open up your life.
It's going to make you feelbetter.
This is a marathon, it's not asprint.
You're not going to be able todo this overnight, right?
So I want you to look at thefirst name on the list.
Let's assume that their name isMartha, because I don't really
(25:33):
know any Martha's.
And none of my family is namedMartha.
It's a pretty safe name.
And maybe you went to highschool with Martha and you don't
remember.
So, you know, easy person toforgive, right?
So I want you to put your handin your heart.
It's merely for you to remindyourself to say the words from
your heart.
The magic is in the energy, notthe words.
(25:57):
And I want you to say, Icompletely forgive Martha.
I forgive the energy aroundMartha.
I completely forgive myself foranything I may or may not have
done.
I forgive the energy aroundmyself.
I forgive the energy around theentire relationship.
And so it is.
And it any way you like.
And so it is.
Man, whatever you want, right?
(26:18):
Now check in with your body.
Are you still mad?
No?
Cross the one off?
Cross them off.
Was it a level three and you'rekind of still angry?
Replace it with a two.
Was it a level five person andnow you're really angry?
(26:38):
And it shut up to a 10?
Okay, what happened?
Okay.
The person who you're mad atdoesn't have to be alive.
You can forgive dead people, andyou can get closure with these
people because where they are ornot doesn't matter a lick.
Because you're forgiving for youin the privacy of your own home,
all by yourself.
You don't have to call them, youdon't have to reach out to them.
(27:00):
You don't have to tell anybodyyou're doing this.
You do it all alone in yourhouse by yourself with nobody
but you, you and you.
So right before you see themantra, if you feel guided to
say something, imagine theperson in front of you.
Let's say Martha was horrible toyou in high school, right?
And really did some damage.
And maybe she was a level sixperson and you got stuff you
(27:23):
want to say.
You don't have anything to saywith a level one, but with a
five, six, or seven, you mighthave some anger issues there.
You're alone in the room.
Say anything you like.
Let her have it.
And if you can't imagine thatshe's standing in front of her,
in front of you, put a chair infront of you, talk to the chair.
And if Martha was a kid fromschool, I don't want you to
(27:46):
imagine the adult is in front ofyou.
I want you to talk to the kid.
Say anything you want, laugh,scream, cry, dance, burn sage.
I don't care what you do, get itall out.
This is your time to getclosure.
If they're already passed away,doesn't matter.
Let them have it.
Then say my mantra and thencheck in with your body.
(28:07):
I did this with a friend ofmine.
She was right in front of me atthe time.
And she it really was a levelfive person, and she did let the
person have it as best as shecould, and she checked in with
her body.
Both of us expected it to godown to a four.
It went up to a 10.
What happened?
Did she do it wrong?
(28:28):
No, she didn't.
The brain is a wonderful,beautiful tool, and it protects
you.
And there's a closet in the backof your brain that's padlocked
with a big, huge chain.
And there's a movie playing inthe closet that you don't even
know exists.
You turn it off if you knew itwas there, but it's just playing
in silently in the background.
(28:48):
And what the forgiveness does,it's like an onion, and you
forgave that first layer of theonion.
And your brain said, Ooh,Antoinette just is she's ready
now.
I'm gonna open up this closetand flutter with memories
because she's ready for themnow.
And my friend just you could seeit on her face.
The memories were just pouringthrough.
So we crossed the name off.
(29:11):
We put it in the number 10column.
She waited 24 hours, and thenshe began the long slog to
forgiving the new number 10person.
This is a really clean way toget closure and forgive people
once and for all because you'regetting the closure and you're
forgiving the energy.
But remember, it's not like AA.
(29:32):
Remember, I went through allthose things.
You don't have to reach out tothem, you don't have to make
amends.
Now, what if it's you who's thenumber 10?
And you have, I was a concierge,I'm a concierge trainer by
trade.
I retired in 2020.
And I had to come up with amethod to get people to forgive
(29:53):
when they couldn't leave theirstation with a customer that
would come over that just yellsat you in your face or something
like that.
How do You release your anger onthe spot when you can't take a
break.
This is one of those ways.
You use my system quietly inyour head.
Or what I've been known to do,really, I did I've done this.
I went into my car, somebodyreally pissed me off.
(30:16):
And excuse my language, but I'moriginally from New York.
And they really pissed me off.
And I went into my car and Iwent, I forgive them, I forgive
them, I forgive them.
Didn't mean one of them.
I forgive them.
I forgive them.
But it reminded me about my mymantra, and it reminded me.
And that person got popped on.
I do this every night before Igo to bed.
I popped on my list and I did itbefore bed and began the long
(30:38):
slog.
But if it's something that youneed to be forgiven for, I want
you to write a second list.
And these aren't the people youwant to want to forgive, these
are the people that you want toforgive you.
And you put down all the thingsthat you can think of, and then
you rate them from one to ten.
(31:00):
And you start with the ones andyou work your way up to the
number 10.
The exact same way.
And you flip the language.
Instead of I completely forgiveMartha and the energy around
Martha, you flip the language tosay, Martha completely forgives
me and the energy around me andthe energy around Martha.
Don't let your brain thinkabout, well, does Martha really
(31:23):
forgive me?
We're not doing it for Martha.
We're doing it for you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I
want to introduce you to theAdventure Sports Lifestyle with
what I call a micro story aboutan adventure that I've had.
The Adventure Sports Lifestyleand my deep connection to nature
is essential to my good health.
So here's the story.
(31:50):
And harvest cinnamon grillpumpkins to make my friend
Lisa's another NorthwoodsWoman's pumpkin bread recipe.
I hope this inspires you to getoutside an adventure along with
friends or the people you lovemost.
Now back to the show where we'retalking with Catherine Giovanni.
Catherine, tell us about how wemight feel after we're capable
(32:14):
of forgiving the unforgivableperson.
SPEAKER_00 (32:17):
You need to feel free.
Right now, you're unforgivableas a one person or people or
events on the planet you don'twant to forgive.
Let's take one, I'll walk youthrough it because it's it's a
little it's a little bit of adance.
And this is where the places andthings come in.
We'll use, I'm trying to thinkof one of my number 10s.
(32:38):
We'll use my father as anexample because he was one of my
number 10s.
And he passed away maybe 30years ago.
So this is me forgiving deadpeople, right?
He was an alcoholic, horribleman, blah, blah, blah, that kind
of thing.
And it took me a long time toget that number 10 down to a
one, right?
So when I first came up withthis method, I thought, I don't
(33:00):
want to forgive him.
Doesn't deserve it.
I don't want to.
In fact, I didn't even want toforgive the energy around the
man.
That's how angry I was.
So I pulled apart some of mymemories.
I took a Thanksgiving memory,and I forgave everything but my
(33:22):
father.
I forgave, and I'm actually deadserious.
I forgave the table we sat atand the energy around the table.
I forgave the food of the table,the energy around the food.
I forgave the chair that I satin, the energy around the chair.
I forgave the house we were in,the energy around the house.
I forgave the city we were in atthe time, the energy around the
(33:44):
city.
I forgave the date.
That's how I forgave my bully inschool.
I forgave everything.
I forgave my childhood school.
I forgave the classroom, thetable, the teacher, the floor,
the playground, the kids whostood around and didn't help me.
I forgave New York City, theenergy around New York City.
I forgave 1974 because that'sthe year I tried to commit
(34:08):
suicide.
So and the energy around 1974.
But let me be clear, I stillhaven't forgiven the bully, and
I still haven't forgiven myfather.
So what have I done?
I've started to pull apart theenergy.
So now that number 10 might be a9.5.
I'm starting to chip away at it.
Am I I check in with my body?
(34:28):
It's a 9.5.
Okay, making progress.
Am I still furious?
Of course I am.
Am I ready to forgive him?
No.
Am I ready to forgive the energyaround him?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
If I'm not, I pick anothermemory and I pull it apart.
I forgive the table, the bed,the chair, the car that took you
(34:49):
there.
There's a lot of unforgivablethings.
I was attacked in college.
So you, you know, you don't wantto forgive the attacker, right?
So you forgive the table, thebed, the chair, the fact that I
got into the car or you went onthat date.
You forgive the telephone thatyou used or the Zoom call or
whatever it is.
You forgive the restaurant, youforgive the sidewalk, you
forgive the everything but theattacker.
(35:12):
And that's gonna take the energyoff.
Now, and I'm not bashingspeakers, I promise I'm not, but
a lot of us will talk about thatwall that people hit.
Been talking about it for 50plus years.
Okay, pull a few bricks out ofthat wall.
Forgive what you can, walkaround the wall and keep going.
If you can circle back later andforgive the actual attacker or
(35:37):
the number 10 person, great.
If you can't, that's fine.
And forgive yourself.
Forgive yourself for gettinginto the car or having the
relationship or sit, you know,whatever it is.
So by doing this, I actually gotmy father down from a 10 to a
one and a podcaster, and Iforgave him.
And believe it or not, we stillhave a good relationship to this
(36:00):
day.
Yes, I know he's dead, but youknow, I'm not spitting anymore.
I actually think good things andI actually remember the love
that was back there.
You know, forgive and forget isalso something that people say
that's absolutely wrong.
I'm from New York City, honey,and I can promise you, with
every fiber of my being,forgetting is not in our DNA.
(36:20):
We never forget.
But I can look in my past, I canlook at all that dysfunction, I
can look at my dad back there.
And now I remember the love.
I remember the people that weretrying to help that kid.
I remember the actual nicethings, as few as they were.
I remember a few of the nicethings.
So I haven't forgotten, but it'sbeen replaced by love and it's
(36:43):
been replaced by a differentmemory now.
That's what this system offersyou.
It's offering you peace, it'soffering you joy.
And if it's yourself you have toforgive, well, a podcaster asked
me on camera, actually, it's outthere somewhere.
If you had to do one thing overin your life and you had one
(37:03):
regret, what is it?
The one I've been married over33 years, and the one regret I
have is I didn't allow my fatherto walk me down the aisle
because I was mad, rightfullyso.
I was mad, and everybody agreedI should be mad because what he
did was horrible.
But I've had 33 years to thinkabout it, and it was mean.
(37:24):
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Just because he behaved badlydoesn't mean I should behave
badly.
I'm, you know, better than that,right?
So it's the old adage when theygo low, you go high.
I didn't go high, I went low.
And I regretted it.
And so I realized that in theheat of the moment, being angry
(37:44):
at my father, I must have donethings to him that hurt him.
So once I got dad down to a one,I realized I had to go the other
way.
And I had to create another listof things that I had done that I
needed him and other people toforgive me for.
And getting to that number 10,pull apart the memory.
(38:06):
If you're a paramedic orsomething, think of the memory.
Don't forgive yourself, pullapart the memory, forgive the
gurney, forgive the ambulance,forgive the fire, forgive the
firehouse, forgive the city,forgive the wheels of the car,
forgive the the road that youdrove down, forgive every part
of that memory except yourself.
(38:26):
And when you're ready to forgiveyourself, then start with just
forgiving the energy aroundyourself.
And then you'll be able to chipaway at it, and eventually
that's not going to haunt yourdreams anymore.
But this is a marathon.
You're not gonna, you're notgonna do this on Friday and be
free on Monday.
I promise you, you won't.
And I don't want you to do morethan if it's a person you
labeled between a one and aseven, I think you could do five
(38:49):
a night.
Do as I say, not as I did.
If it's eight, nine, or ten, onea night every 24 hours.
Why?
Remember that water study wetalked about?
Okay, I'm an overachiever.
And I did this exercise, and Ihad a list of, I swear to you,
it must have been 50 or 60people on the list.
And I thought, this is gonna begreat.
(39:10):
I'm gonna be like a phoenixrising from the ashes, I'm gonna
be like a butterfly coming outof a cocoon.
I'm gonna go to, I'm gonnaforgive all these people.
I'm gonna wake up tomorrowmorning and everything's gonna
be gone.
Okay.
No, it didn't work out the way Iplanned it because the universe
was laughing at me when I saidthat.
I did forgive many people on thelist.
(39:32):
I did.
However, I spent the next threedays in bed with what everybody
thought was a stomach flu.
It was not the stomach flu.
It was energy, it was energysickness, which is what I call
it.
I'd made, I literally mademyself sick because my body was
trying to process the energy andget rid of all that bad energy
(39:54):
and all the energy stored inthose whole and those little
cells, and it it couldn't do it.
It couldn't do it.
So I literally stayed in bed forthree days.
Now, most people, when they dothis, nine out of ten people are
really tired after they do thisprocess.
So try and do it after dinnerwithin within eye shot of bed.
(40:15):
I do it right before I go tosleep.
Some people, like your, likeyours truly, are in the bathroom
for a little bit.
That's just my body's way ofprocessing.
It doesn't mean you ate badfish.
It merely means your body isjust trying to process that dark
energy.
And if you feel that, oh, itdidn't work, I didn't feel
anything.
(40:35):
It oh, it worked.
You just forgave the first layerof the onion.
Keep going and check in withyour body.
Are you still angry?
Then put another number on itand wait 24 hours and do it
again.
SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
Catherine, I sincerely feel that the ultimate
path to forgiveness needs to betaught in every college, every
elementary school, high school,junior high school, all law
enforcement, all firstresponders and military need to
receive your plan and yourprogram because it's going to be
(41:08):
life-changing.
I feel like I have had the mostentertaining and informative and
realistic transformational talkof my life right now.
And I thank you for it.
SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
Oh, my pleasure.
This is this is a life-changingmethod.
You know, the problem withforgiveness is everybody tells
us to forgive.
Nobody teaches you how.
What if I don't want to?
Then what do I do?
What if it's me and I don't wantto?
I don't feel I deserve it.
I'm not worthy.
You know, it's this is a this isa system that people can use
(41:42):
that's very clear.
And it's, I mean, it's a literalstep-by-step system.
Do this, do this, do this, thatkind of thing.
So it's it's it's gonna help alot of people.
That's why I to give the systemout in every podcast I do,
because I really want people touh hear it and teach it and talk
about it and get this out.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
Well, people, you can access all of this
information and sign up forCatherine's 10-day program and
buy her book from the links inthe show description.
Catherine, what more do you wantto leave listeners with?
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
I really want people to know with every fiber of my
being that you're worthy to leada life of love and joy.
It's your birthright.
We're not meant to live in arefrigerator box on the street.
We're meant to be happy.
We're meant to live in joy,we're meant to learn new things.
This is your birthright.
(42:38):
So if you don't feel worthy, letme be the first to tell you you
are worthy and you do deservethis.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Thank you so much for joining us today, and I'd
love to have you back again.
SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
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SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
They're absolutely wrong.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I have boundaries in place.
Well, Catherine, they don'tdeserve my forgiveness.
No, they don't.
Absolutely, they don't fordeserve your forgiveness.
You're not doing it for them.
They're gonna continue doingwhatever it is they're going to
do.
And if they have amends to make,they're gonna still have to make
(00:27):
those amends.
You're doing it for you.
You're not doing it for them.
You're doing it because they'reinside your head.
Okay, well, here's the big one.
Just because I forgive you, Idon't want to admit that I'm now
giving you a pass.
Now I'm if I if I forgive you,it means that I'm admitting you
were right and I was wrong.
(00:49):
Wrong.
They're still wrong.
They're still a dumpster fire.
You're not doing it for them.
It doesn't mean you're givingin.
It means you're showing yourstrength.
You're doing it for you.
Here is the big, huge definitionfrom my perspective.
Forgiveness means I want you outof my head.
I want you gone.
(01:09):
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop the triggers.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
I want you out of my head.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Imagine carrying a backpack stuffed with bricks
from every betrayal, everyslight, until one day you drop
it all and sprint towardfreedom.
That's the raw power offorgiveness.
Not as a soft-hearted gesture,but as a strategic unlock for
your deepest potential, drawingfrom neuroscience backed
(01:36):
breakthroughs and real lifetriumphs.
This episode reveals how lettinggo isn't weakness.
It's your edge in leadership,relationships, and self-mastery.
Best-selling author, forgivenesscoach, and transformation mentor
Catherine Giovanni shares herproven path to forgiveness,
proven that forgiving theunforgivable catapults you from
(01:59):
surviving to thriving.
Ready to shed the weight of thepain you're holding on to?
Your breakthrough starts herewith action steps you can take
today.
Let's dive in.
Hi friends, welcome to the NewNormal Big Life Podcast.
We bring you natural news andstories about nature that we
hope will inspire you to getoutside in adventure, along with
(02:20):
a step-by-step plan to help youpractice what you've learned and
create your own new normal andlive the biggest life you can
dream.
I'm your host, Antoinette Lee,the Wellness Warrior.
Before we get started, I wannagive a shout out to Sun, a new
listener.
Son, it makes me so happy toknow that you, a 53-year-old
(02:40):
woman, learned how importantgrip strength is as an indicator
of your overall health.
Thank you for the kind words andthe five-star review on Apple
Podcasts.
I appreciate you, my new friend.
Today, we're talking about thehealing power of forgiveness and
how letting go can restore yourspirit and health.
In the high-stakes arena ofmodern leadership and in always
(03:04):
on life, where burnout lurkslike a shadow and grudges fester
into career and relationshipkillers.
One overlooked tool stands readyto redefine your trajectory,
forgiveness.
Not the Hallmark card version,but a deliberate science forge
practice that dismantlesemotional barriers and unleashes
(03:28):
unbridled momentum.
Picture this (03:30):
a C-suite executive chained to a
decade-old betrayal by a formermentor, watching opportunities
slip away while resent meslippers beneath boardroom
poise, or an adult holding ontoa painful childhood memory from
an unforgivable act that seepinto their presence.
(03:51):
Veterans, law enforcement, andfirst responders living with the
trauma of those they can'tforgive or actions they wish
they could do over for a betteror different outcome can find
relief.
You'll learn how, startingtoday, in a guided release, the
chains can shatter, paving theway for a promotion that once
(04:12):
seemed impossible, betterrelationships with those you
love, and greater love foryourself.
This isn't fiction, it's thealchemy of forgiveness at work.
At its core, forgiveness rewiresthe brain's threat response,
trading chronic stress forclarity and resilience.
Harwood Health reports thatembracing forgiveness correlates
(04:34):
with measurably lower levels ofdepression, anxiety, and
hostility alongside reducedsubstance abuse, elevated
self-esteem, and amplified lifesatisfaction.
It's no mirrored platitude.
John Hopkins Medicineunderscores how this act slashes
heart, heart attack risk,optimizes cholesterol, and
(04:57):
enhances sleep quality, vital toyour overall good health.
Let's meet our guest, CatherineGiovanni.
Catherine Giovanni is athree-time award-winning
best-selling author,international speaker, and
transformation mentor with morethan two decades of experience.
She helps people find peace,healing, and hope.
(05:17):
The author of 16 books,including The Ultimate Path to
Forgiveness, Unlocking YourPower.
Catherine is best known forguiding people through her
simple step-by-step forgivenessprocess because everyone tells
us to forgive, but no oneteaches us how.
A breast cancer survivor andsomeone who has overcome
(05:39):
significant personal challenges,she brings warmth, compassion,
and practical wisdom to helpothers release guilt and shame,
reconnect with their faith andinner strength, and step into a
lighter, freer way of living.
When she isn't writing orspeaking, Catherine enjoys time
with her family, caring for herplants, including grandpa, her
(06:01):
beloved 32-year-old houseplant.
Wow, that's a green thumb.
And adding to her ever-growingstack of books.
Hi, Catherine.
Welcome to New Normal Big Life.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
So, what I find is that most people who are
intentional about what they dofor a career, they are looking
to solve a problem or be theperson they needed most in their
life when they had some kind ofchallenge.
How did you come into becoming atransformation mentor?
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Well, the fact that I call myself a transformation
and forgiveness mentor impliesthat the universe, which has an
incredibly bad sense of humor,has gifted me with more than my
fair share of things to forgive.
Let's just say that.
So that's how I kind of came.
I come from, I could just say itfast, I come from a
(06:53):
dysfunctional family.
Both parents were alcoholics.
I was terribly bullied inschool, tried to commit suicide
in the eighth grade, turned intoone of those teenagers, you
know, had one friend draped inblack, that kind of thing.
But I lived in New York City andeverybody was draped in black.
So I'm not sure I should keepsaying that, right?
And then I, you know, I kind ofdrifted through life until my
(07:16):
mother fell down a flight ofstairs, broke her hip, and ended
up in the hospital.
And even my mother couldn't geta gin and tonic in the hospital.
So she dried out, went to rehab,and we spent the next three
years tighter than tight, closerthan sisters, practically
finished each other's sentences.
We forgave each other.
We we did everything that wesqueezed as much life into those
(07:38):
three years as we could, andthen she died of breast cancer,
which I eventually got in 2012.
And I don't carry the gene, sofigure that one out.
But I knew without a shadow of adoubt that if I didn't change my
life, I was gonna die too.
So I quit drinking.
I've been sober now for 35years, maybe it was the it was
(08:01):
the only New Year's resolution Iever kept.
And that's kind of howeverything started.
I tell people all the time,everybody, 10 out of 10 people,
have what I call a flash pointin their life.
And it's the one moment when youlook back at it, hindsight is
2020, you could identify thatmoment that your life completely
(08:22):
changed.
Didn't know it at the time, butwhen you look back, it's like,
you know, if that hadn'thappened, this hadn't happened.
My mother's death, as horribleas it was, was my flashpoint.
And everything kind of stemsfrom there.
SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
Wow, that's an incredible journey.
If we have time, I'd like to askyou some questions about breast
cancer uh survival.
And if not, then I'd love tobring you back on another time
to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Happy to.
So when I think of atransformation mentor, I get
several images.
What exactly does atransformation mentor do?
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
In my world, it's transforming you from the person
you think you are today to yourauthentic self, the person you
came to the planet to be.
The only reason you are not thatperson, some people are that
person, but many people are not,is because of anger and lack of
(09:23):
forgiveness, unforgiveness.
And you have so many things inyour past, anger is acting like
a shield, and it's preventingyou from being your authentic
self.
Now I can I have a visual.
If you're listening to thisbroadcast, I'm gonna talk you
through it, so it's okay.
I'm holding a purple coffee cupoff to the side of my body.
(09:46):
This coffee cup represents angerand resentment and all the bad
things.
But look at my body language.
You and I can have, I can managemy anger, I can hold it off to
the side.
It's easy, it's not heavy.
I got this.
And you can say, you know,Catherine, you we got to talk
about your anger.
And I was like, nah, I got this.
But here's the thing abouthumans: if we don't take any
(10:09):
anger out of this little cup,we're gonna keep adding anger
into it because humans irritateother humans and family really
messes you up.
So eventually it's gonna startto get heavy.
So now look at my body language.
I can still conduct my life, butI'm I'm taking two hands to hold
up this cup.
It's starting to get into mybrain.
(10:30):
It's starting to come into mylanguage.
It's I'm starting to tellstories about my past and my
story.
Look what I went through.
If I continue to hold on to thecup and I still don't forgive
and I still don't release any ofthat anger, now I'm holding the
cup in front of my face.
My life has stopped pretty much.
It's all I can talk about, it'sall I can think about.
(10:51):
I'm losing friends because it'sall I'm just talking about my
story.
My dream relationship justwalked into the room and I
missed it because I was sofocused on my anger.
I didn't see it.
A huge money-making opportunityjust walked in and I missed it.
So my forgiveness system, whichis a very easy step-by-step
(11:12):
system, is going to allow youto, if at the first part you use
it, now the cup is back off tothe side.
My life has started to open upagain.
I could see things.
And eventually, if you keep atit, eventually you could put
your cup down.
Now I can see the opportunities.
Now I can be my authentic self.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Catherine, that was very powerful.
And you actually have a 10-dayforgiveness program coming up
soon on October 20th.
Can you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
It's a 10-day program.
Now you can get the forgivenesssystem in my book, and you can
go to and you can listen tothis, to this uh podcast because
I'm going to go through thisstep by step.
But it's a 10-day class that'sgoing to arrive in your email
box and it's going to take youthrough my forgiveness system
step by step, as this as if I'mkind of sitting there right with
(12:03):
you.
And it's a 10-day class becauseI don't think I think maybe 10
days is probably enough.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
I love that because some people spend years and
years in therapy, talk therapy,and still are not able to move
forward in their lives and getpast the unforgivable.
Can you tell us a little bitabout why we need to forgive, in
addition to what you alreadysaid?
(12:32):
Do you have any thoughts aboutwhat it does to your body from a
chemical basis and the kind ofinflammation that it creates and
the health challenges that itcreates when you don't forgive?
One of the reasons I'm askingthis question is because I know
that a lot of our listeners areformer military and law
(12:53):
enforcement.
So we have veterans, we haveLeos, we have first responders.
And sometimes when you have atrauma from losing someone
significant to you or not beingable to help someone enough or
save someone, that can create alot of guilt.
Can you speak to the importanceof forgiveness as it relates to
(13:17):
your overall health?
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Sure.
I have science to back myselfup.
When we talk about forgivenesson a 10 scale, with 10 being an
unforgivable dumpster fire andone being the easiest person in
the world to forgive, 10 out of10 of the people watching and
listening to this podcast,everybody, including yourself,
(13:39):
is thinking of their number 10unforgivable person.
Everybody across the board.
That's why you don't want toforgive, because they don't
deserve it and you don't wantto.
So I'm the only one in the worldthat's going to look at you dead
in the eye and say, you don'thave to forgive the
unforgivable.
Stay with me.
Don't click off.
The reason you don't have toforgive the unforgivable is
(14:00):
because there's a lot of people,places, and things.
I did say places and things.
Again, just hang with me, thatyou can forgive before you even
get to that dumpster fire.
My system's going to start youwith the easy ones.
There's also a few principlesthat people bandy around that
are absolutely wrong.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
(14:20):
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I have boundaries in place.
Well, Catherine, they don'tdeserve my forgiveness.
No, they don't.
Absolutely, they don't fordeserve your forgiveness.
You're not doing it for them.
They're going to continue doingwhatever it is they're going to
do.
And if they have amends to make,they're going to still have to
make those amends.
You're doing it for you.
You're not doing it for them.
(14:41):
You're doing it because they'reinside your head.
Okay, well, here's the big one.
Just because I forgive you, Idon't want to admit that I'm now
giving you a pass.
Now I'm if I if I forgive you,it means that I'm admitting you
were right and I was wrong.
Wrong.
They're still wrong.
(15:02):
They're still a dumpster fire.
You're not doing it for them.
It doesn't mean you're givingin.
It means you're showing yourstrength.
You're doing it for you.
Here is the big, huge definitionfrom my perspective.
Forgiveness means I want you outof my head.
I want you gone.
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop the triggers.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
(15:24):
I want you out of my head.
So holding on to the anger, whatdoes that do to your body?
There was a study done by, and Inever can get this gentleman's
name.
I have a block against it.
I think it's Hasumoto, somethinglike that.
But it's called the JapaneseWater Study.
It's right in the front firstpage of Google Search.
You'll get it right away.
It's called the Japanese WaterStudy.
I think he even wrote a bookabout it.
(15:45):
In the interest of time, I'llsay it quickly.
He took two containers of water.
One container of water, all hedid was talk to it.
He said these beautiful, I loveyou.
You're beautiful.
He said the most beautiful wordsto it.
The other container of water,all he spoke was hate.
The most hateful things you cansay out loud, he said to this
water.
(16:06):
He then froze the water and heput it under a microscope and
took a look.
The water that he froze that hespoke love to had these gorgeous
snowflake transformations.
The pictures are right onGoogle.
They're fascinating.
The water he spoke hate to hadthese black, sick kind of
malformations that looked likeit was eating itself.
(16:26):
Why am I telling you this?
The human body is over 95%water.
So when you're filled withself-doubt and your self-talk is
horrible and you're filled withhate and anger and resentment,
what do you think you're doingto the water cells within your
old body?
You're literally making yourselfsick from the inside out.
(16:47):
So by using my system, andthere's a secret sauce to it
that nobody's figured out thatwe've embedded into it, which
I'll tell you about, is going toallow you to start changing
those water cells in your bodyso you can breathe again and you
can be free and experience joy.
Joy.
Remember joy?
Yeah, joy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
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That's the real thing that somany people don't realize that
they're robbing themselves ofthe joy they could be
experiencing.
Yeah.
Especially people who worked incareers where you are around a
lot of traumatic experiences andmay even have physical trauma
(18:56):
from the work that you've done.
It seems like it's a little biteasier for me in my own mind to
forgive someone that has wrongedme to be able to let go of that
experience.
So it's not keeping holdingrent-free real estate in my
head.
(19:16):
However, it's a little bitharder in my mind to forgive
someone that I feel like maybe Ilet them down because, for
example, as a medic, there aretimes where no matter what I
could have done or what anyonecould have done for that person,
there just wasn't enough time tosave their life under those
(19:38):
conditions.
And so it's difficult to forgiveyourself for not being, I don't
know, more capable, moresomething in that moment.
How do you forgive yourself whenthe loss is so profound and you
feel like you're the person whodid something in air quotes
(19:59):
wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Well, I'm gonna go through the forgiveness system
and that's gonna answer yourquestion.
We're gonna do two lists.
We're gonna do one list ofpeople that you need to forgive,
right?
Your, you know, whatever yourunforgivable people and the easy
people.
The second list is gonna be alist of people that need to
(20:20):
forgive you.
Okay.
So what I want everybody to do,the special sauce to the whole
thing is the read I have peoplecoming up to me all the time
that say, you know, Catherine, Idid do the work, I did forgive
them, but they didn't stayforgiven.
I can, you know, I'll go intothe bakery and I'll smell the
(20:40):
apple pie and I'll immediatelythink of my mother, and
everything comes right back.
I keep getting triggered.
I walk by a building and I gotfired in that building, and I
spend the next day reallyirritated, that kind of thing.
Well, that's because you didn'tforgive the energy.
Science is proving thateverything on our planet has
energy around it, including thislittle silver microphone.
(21:01):
Everything has an energy fieldaround it, absolutely
everything.
And everybody thinks that whenyou get angry, actually, nobody
thinks this, but if you did,this is what you would assume.
You when you get angry, thewords leave your mouth and
dissipate into the universe.
They do not, they hang aroundyour energy field until you
can't carry.
(21:21):
Remember the cup?
It hangs around your energyfield.
And it's gonna stay there untilyou clear it.
So you're literally walkingaround in a little black cloud
and you don't even know it.
So by forgiving the energy whichis tying you to the last person
on earth that you want to betied to, that's gonna cut the
cord.
That's gonna cut the energy.
(21:42):
So when you forgive this person,it's it's permanent.
So you can go on social mediaand you can see the person's
name, or you can see the eventthat happened, and it won't
trigger you.
You're not gonna get upset,you're not gonna care good,
you're not gonna care bad,you're not gonna care.
Happen.
I'm a serial entrepreneurbecause of course I am.
(22:03):
And I've written a lot of booksand I had a lot of business
partners because I'm just thatold.
And one in particular did realdamage at one point.
She did.
And I was that mad at her foryears, and she was one of my
number tens.
And using my system, which I'mgonna talk about, I got her down
to a forgivable letter and Itossed it.
It was her birthday, couldn'tremember.
(22:23):
I was on Facebook and I saw hername.
Usually seeing her name wouldsend me to the ceiling, and
you'd have to peel me back, andI'd have to call my bestie and
say, You're gonna have to peelme off the ceiling.
Here's why.
This day, I didn't care.
And I caught myself and Ithought, wait a minute, I don't
care.
I don't care.
(22:44):
That's freedom, that's joy.
That means they're out of yourhead.
So, what I want everybody to dois I want you to here's the
hardest part of the wholesystem.
I kind of want you to turn yourcell phone off.
This is the hardest part.
And if you can't turn your cellphone off, just turn the volume
off or leave it in another roomor something.
What I really want is I want youalone for a few minutes.
(23:04):
No dogs, no cats, no, I want nohumans.
I want you alone.
Get a pad of paper and a pen oryour laptop.
It doesn't bother me.
And the pad of paper and pen isactually better.
It's not because I'm old school.
There was a study done atHarvard University that followed
some kids through the years.
One group of kids was told, justsay your goals out loud to the
(23:26):
room.
The other group of kids wastold, write your goals down on a
piece of paper with a pen.
The kids that wrote their goalsdown in the paper twice as
successful later in life thanthe kids who didn't.
So some kind of magic happenswhen it goes from your head down
your arm onto a piece of paper.
So what I want you to do is Iwant you to write a list of all
the people you think you need toforgive.
(23:48):
The first five people are goingto be unforgivable people.
I get that.
I did it too.
I've done this exercise.
I on my own guinea pig.
That's fine.
But I want you to keep going.
I want you to remember theperson who cut you off yesterday
on I-95 South.
Forgive that person.
I want you to write down theperson who stained your sweater
in high school.
Forgive that person.
(24:08):
Write that person's name down.
Don't judge the list.
Just write random names.
The people you used to workwith, you know, all of these
names.
Write a list.
The person who cut you off inaisle five of the grocery store
yesterday.
Come on now.
You can forgive that person.
The lunchroom sandwich thief.
Write that down.
You can forgive that person whosteals your sandwich every day.
(24:29):
Don't put hot sauce in it andjust sit gleefully in the corner
and watch them die.
Just forgive them.
Put them on the list.
Then I want you to take the listand I want you to rate these
people between one and ten.
One being super easy, ten beinghorrible, unforgivable.
You could have seven numbereights.
(24:51):
I don't care.
You could skip a number.
I also really don't care.
It's your list.
However, what I really careabout is that you start with the
easy ones and you work your wayup to the number tens.
Number tens are a bear.
And we're going to talk abouthow to forgive the unforgivable
because there's a little trickto it.
(25:11):
And they're they're hard.
So I want you to start with thenumber ones because it's going
to start to anybody labeledbetween one and seven is going
to open up your life.
It's going to make you feelbetter.
This is a marathon, it's not asprint.
You're not going to be able todo this overnight, right?
So I want you to look at thefirst name on the list.
Let's assume that their name isMartha, because I don't really
(25:33):
know any Martha's.
And none of my family is namedMartha.
It's a pretty safe name.
And maybe you went to highschool with Martha and you don't
remember.
So, you know, easy person toforgive, right?
So I want you to put your handin your heart.
It's merely for you to remindyourself to say the words from
your heart.
The magic is in the energy, notthe words.
(25:57):
And I want you to say, Icompletely forgive Martha.
I forgive the energy aroundMartha.
I completely forgive myself foranything I may or may not have
done.
I forgive the energy aroundmyself.
I forgive the energy around theentire relationship.
And so it is.
And it any way you like.
And so it is.
Man, whatever you want, right?
(26:18):
Now check in with your body.
Are you still mad?
No?
Cross the one off?
Cross them off.
Was it a level three and you'rekind of still angry?
Replace it with a two.
Was it a level five person andnow you're really angry?
(26:38):
And it shut up to a 10?
Okay, what happened?
Okay.
The person who you're mad atdoesn't have to be alive.
You can forgive dead people, andyou can get closure with these
people because where they are ornot doesn't matter a lick.
Because you're forgiving for youin the privacy of your own home,
all by yourself.
You don't have to call them, youdon't have to reach out to them.
(27:00):
You don't have to tell anybodyyou're doing this.
You do it all alone in yourhouse by yourself with nobody
but you, you and you.
So right before you see themantra, if you feel guided to
say something, imagine theperson in front of you.
Let's say Martha was horrible toyou in high school, right?
And really did some damage.
And maybe she was a level sixperson and you got stuff you
(27:23):
want to say.
You don't have anything to saywith a level one, but with a
five, six, or seven, you mighthave some anger issues there.
You're alone in the room.
Say anything you like.
Let her have it.
And if you can't imagine thatshe's standing in front of her,
in front of you, put a chair infront of you, talk to the chair.
And if Martha was a kid fromschool, I don't want you to
(27:46):
imagine the adult is in front ofyou.
I want you to talk to the kid.
Say anything you want, laugh,scream, cry, dance, burn sage.
I don't care what you do, get itall out.
This is your time to getclosure.
If they're already passed away,doesn't matter.
Let them have it.
Then say my mantra and thencheck in with your body.
(28:07):
I did this with a friend ofmine.
She was right in front of me atthe time.
And she it really was a levelfive person, and she did let the
person have it as best as shecould, and she checked in with
her body.
Both of us expected it to godown to a four.
It went up to a 10.
What happened?
Did she do it wrong?
(28:28):
No, she didn't.
The brain is a wonderful,beautiful tool, and it protects
you.
And there's a closet in the backof your brain that's padlocked
with a big, huge chain.
And there's a movie playing inthe closet that you don't even
know exists.
You turn it off if you knew itwas there, but it's just playing
in silently in the background.
(28:48):
And what the forgiveness does,it's like an onion, and you
forgave that first layer of theonion.
And your brain said, Ooh,Antoinette just is she's ready
now.
I'm gonna open up this closetand flutter with memories
because she's ready for themnow.
And my friend just you could seeit on her face.
The memories were just pouringthrough.
So we crossed the name off.
(29:11):
We put it in the number 10column.
She waited 24 hours, and thenshe began the long slog to
forgiving the new number 10person.
This is a really clean way toget closure and forgive people
once and for all because you'regetting the closure and you're
forgiving the energy.
But remember, it's not like AA.
(29:32):
Remember, I went through allthose things.
You don't have to reach out tothem, you don't have to make
amends.
Now, what if it's you who's thenumber 10?
And you have, I was a concierge,I'm a concierge trainer by
trade.
I retired in 2020.
And I had to come up with amethod to get people to forgive
(29:53):
when they couldn't leave theirstation with a customer that
would come over that just yellsat you in your face or something
like that.
How do You release your anger onthe spot when you can't take a
break.
This is one of those ways.
You use my system quietly inyour head.
Or what I've been known to do,really, I did I've done this.
I went into my car, somebodyreally pissed me off.
(30:16):
And excuse my language, but I'moriginally from New York.
And they really pissed me off.
And I went into my car and Iwent, I forgive them, I forgive
them, I forgive them.
Didn't mean one of them.
I forgive them.
I forgive them.
But it reminded me about my mymantra, and it reminded me.
And that person got popped on.
I do this every night before Igo to bed.
I popped on my list and I did itbefore bed and began the long
(30:38):
slog.
But if it's something that youneed to be forgiven for, I want
you to write a second list.
And these aren't the people youwant to want to forgive, these
are the people that you want toforgive you.
And you put down all the thingsthat you can think of, and then
you rate them from one to ten.
(31:00):
And you start with the ones andyou work your way up to the
number 10.
The exact same way.
And you flip the language.
Instead of I completely forgiveMartha and the energy around
Martha, you flip the language tosay, Martha completely forgives
me and the energy around me andthe energy around Martha.
Don't let your brain thinkabout, well, does Martha really
(31:23):
forgive me?
We're not doing it for Martha.
We're doing it for you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I
want to introduce you to theAdventure Sports Lifestyle with
what I call a micro story aboutan adventure that I've had.
The Adventure Sports Lifestyleand my deep connection to nature
is essential to my good health.
So here's the story.
(31:50):
And harvest cinnamon grillpumpkins to make my friend
Lisa's another NorthwoodsWoman's pumpkin bread recipe.
I hope this inspires you to getoutside an adventure along with
friends or the people you lovemost.
Now back to the show where we'retalking with Catherine Giovanni.
Catherine, tell us about how wemight feel after we're capable
(32:14):
of forgiving the unforgivableperson.
SPEAKER_00 (32:17):
You need to feel free.
Right now, you're unforgivableas a one person or people or
events on the planet you don'twant to forgive.
Let's take one, I'll walk youthrough it because it's it's a
little it's a little bit of adance.
And this is where the places andthings come in.
We'll use, I'm trying to thinkof one of my number 10s.
(32:38):
We'll use my father as anexample because he was one of my
number 10s.
And he passed away maybe 30years ago.
So this is me forgiving deadpeople, right?
He was an alcoholic, horribleman, blah, blah, blah, that kind
of thing.
And it took me a long time toget that number 10 down to a
one, right?
So when I first came up withthis method, I thought, I don't
(33:00):
want to forgive him.
Doesn't deserve it.
I don't want to.
In fact, I didn't even want toforgive the energy around the
man.
That's how angry I was.
So I pulled apart some of mymemories.
I took a Thanksgiving memory,and I forgave everything but my
(33:22):
father.
I forgave, and I'm actually deadserious.
I forgave the table we sat atand the energy around the table.
I forgave the food of the table,the energy around the food.
I forgave the chair that I satin, the energy around the chair.
I forgave the house we were in,the energy around the house.
I forgave the city we were in atthe time, the energy around the
(33:44):
city.
I forgave the date.
That's how I forgave my bully inschool.
I forgave everything.
I forgave my childhood school.
I forgave the classroom, thetable, the teacher, the floor,
the playground, the kids whostood around and didn't help me.
I forgave New York City, theenergy around New York City.
I forgave 1974 because that'sthe year I tried to commit
(34:08):
suicide.
So and the energy around 1974.
But let me be clear, I stillhaven't forgiven the bully, and
I still haven't forgiven myfather.
So what have I done?
I've started to pull apart theenergy.
So now that number 10 might be a9.5.
I'm starting to chip away at it.
Am I I check in with my body?
(34:28):
It's a 9.5.
Okay, making progress.
Am I still furious?
Of course I am.
Am I ready to forgive him?
No.
Am I ready to forgive the energyaround him?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
If I'm not, I pick anothermemory and I pull it apart.
I forgive the table, the bed,the chair, the car that took you
(34:49):
there.
There's a lot of unforgivablethings.
I was attacked in college.
So you, you know, you don't wantto forgive the attacker, right?
So you forgive the table, thebed, the chair, the fact that I
got into the car or you went onthat date.
You forgive the telephone thatyou used or the Zoom call or
whatever it is.
You forgive the restaurant, youforgive the sidewalk, you
forgive the everything but theattacker.
(35:12):
And that's gonna take the energyoff.
Now, and I'm not bashingspeakers, I promise I'm not, but
a lot of us will talk about thatwall that people hit.
Been talking about it for 50plus years.
Okay, pull a few bricks out ofthat wall.
Forgive what you can, walkaround the wall and keep going.
If you can circle back later andforgive the actual attacker or
(35:37):
the number 10 person, great.
If you can't, that's fine.
And forgive yourself.
Forgive yourself for gettinginto the car or having the
relationship or sit, you know,whatever it is.
So by doing this, I actually gotmy father down from a 10 to a
one and a podcaster, and Iforgave him.
And believe it or not, we stillhave a good relationship to this
(36:00):
day.
Yes, I know he's dead, but youknow, I'm not spitting anymore.
I actually think good things andI actually remember the love
that was back there.
You know, forgive and forget isalso something that people say
that's absolutely wrong.
I'm from New York City, honey,and I can promise you, with
every fiber of my being,forgetting is not in our DNA.
(36:20):
We never forget.
But I can look in my past, I canlook at all that dysfunction, I
can look at my dad back there.
And now I remember the love.
I remember the people that weretrying to help that kid.
I remember the actual nicethings, as few as they were.
I remember a few of the nicethings.
So I haven't forgotten, but it'sbeen replaced by love and it's
(36:43):
been replaced by a differentmemory now.
That's what this system offersyou.
It's offering you peace, it'soffering you joy.
And if it's yourself you have toforgive, well, a podcaster asked
me on camera, actually, it's outthere somewhere.
If you had to do one thing overin your life and you had one
(37:03):
regret, what is it?
The one I've been married over33 years, and the one regret I
have is I didn't allow my fatherto walk me down the aisle
because I was mad, rightfullyso.
I was mad, and everybody agreedI should be mad because what he
did was horrible.
But I've had 33 years to thinkabout it, and it was mean.
(37:24):
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Just because he behaved badlydoesn't mean I should behave
badly.
I'm, you know, better than that,right?
So it's the old adage when theygo low, you go high.
I didn't go high, I went low.
And I regretted it.
And so I realized that in theheat of the moment, being angry
(37:44):
at my father, I must have donethings to him that hurt him.
So once I got dad down to a one,I realized I had to go the other
way.
And I had to create another listof things that I had done that I
needed him and other people toforgive me for.
And getting to that number 10,pull apart the memory.
(38:06):
If you're a paramedic orsomething, think of the memory.
Don't forgive yourself, pullapart the memory, forgive the
gurney, forgive the ambulance,forgive the fire, forgive the
firehouse, forgive the city,forgive the wheels of the car,
forgive the the road that youdrove down, forgive every part
of that memory except yourself.
(38:26):
And when you're ready to forgiveyourself, then start with just
forgiving the energy aroundyourself.
And then you'll be able to chipaway at it, and eventually
that's not going to haunt yourdreams anymore.
But this is a marathon.
You're not gonna, you're notgonna do this on Friday and be
free on Monday.
I promise you, you won't.
And I don't want you to do morethan if it's a person you
labeled between a one and aseven, I think you could do five
(38:49):
a night.
Do as I say, not as I did.
If it's eight, nine, or ten, onea night every 24 hours.
Why?
Remember that water study wetalked about?
Okay, I'm an overachiever.
And I did this exercise, and Ihad a list of, I swear to you,
it must have been 50 or 60people on the list.
And I thought, this is gonna begreat.
(39:10):
I'm gonna be like a phoenixrising from the ashes, I'm gonna
be like a butterfly coming outof a cocoon.
I'm gonna go to, I'm gonnaforgive all these people.
I'm gonna wake up tomorrowmorning and everything's gonna
be gone.
Okay.
No, it didn't work out the way Iplanned it because the universe
was laughing at me when I saidthat.
I did forgive many people on thelist.
(39:32):
I did.
However, I spent the next threedays in bed with what everybody
thought was a stomach flu.
It was not the stomach flu.
It was energy, it was energysickness, which is what I call
it.
I'd made, I literally mademyself sick because my body was
trying to process the energy andget rid of all that bad energy
(39:54):
and all the energy stored inthose whole and those little
cells, and it it couldn't do it.
It couldn't do it.
So I literally stayed in bed forthree days.
Now, most people, when they dothis, nine out of ten people are
really tired after they do thisprocess.
So try and do it after dinnerwithin within eye shot of bed.
(40:15):
I do it right before I go tosleep.
Some people, like your, likeyours truly, are in the bathroom
for a little bit.
That's just my body's way ofprocessing.
It doesn't mean you ate badfish.
It merely means your body isjust trying to process that dark
energy.
And if you feel that, oh, itdidn't work, I didn't feel
anything.
(40:35):
It oh, it worked.
You just forgave the first layerof the onion.
Keep going and check in withyour body.
Are you still angry?
Then put another number on itand wait 24 hours and do it
again.
SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
Catherine, I sincerely feel that the ultimate
path to forgiveness needs to betaught in every college, every
elementary school, high school,junior high school, all law
enforcement, all firstresponders and military need to
receive your plan and yourprogram because it's going to be
(41:08):
life-changing.
I feel like I have had the mostentertaining and informative and
realistic transformational talkof my life right now.
And I thank you for it.
SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
Oh, my pleasure.
This is this is a life-changingmethod.
You know, the problem withforgiveness is everybody tells
us to forgive.
Nobody teaches you how.
What if I don't want to?
Then what do I do?
What if it's me and I don't wantto?
I don't feel I deserve it.
I'm not worthy.
You know, it's this is a this isa system that people can use
(41:42):
that's very clear.
And it's, I mean, it's a literalstep-by-step system.
Do this, do this, do this, thatkind of thing.
So it's it's it's gonna help alot of people.
That's why I to give the systemout in every podcast I do,
because I really want people touh hear it and teach it and talk
about it and get this out.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
Well, people, you can access all of this
information and sign up forCatherine's 10-day program and
buy her book from the links inthe show description.
Catherine, what more do you wantto leave listeners with?
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
I really want people to know with every fiber of my
being that you're worthy to leada life of love and joy.
It's your birthright.
We're not meant to live in arefrigerator box on the street.
We're meant to be happy.
We're meant to live in joy,we're meant to learn new things.
This is your birthright.
(42:38):
So if you don't feel worthy, letme be the first to tell you you
are worthy and you do deservethis.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Thank you so much for joining us today, and I'd
love to have you back again.
SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
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