July 9, 2025 • 32 mins
Community development in America is at a pivotal moment. Long-standing federal programs that fuel homeownership, support small businesses, and promote neighborhood revitalization—especially in communities of color—are now under threat.
But on today's sponsored episode, we’ll hear how the people working on the front lines of equitable development are adapting, organizing, and doubling down on their missions.
Guests on this episode include Nikitra Bailey, Executive Vice President at the National Fair Housing Alliance, which supports more than 170 member organizations nationwide; Dafina Williams, Executive Vice President and Chief Public Policy Officer at Opportunity Finance Network, representing over 470 CDFIs across the country; and Selina Pagán, Executive Director of the Young Latino Network, a grassroots group that has grown into a regional force for civic engagement in Northern Ohio.
This sponsored episode was produced in partnership with Third Space Action Lab. Its Anti-Racist Community Development research project was developed with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the views of the Foundation. To learn more about strategies for advancing practical, concrete change in the sector, visit The People's Practice.
But on today's sponsored episode, we’ll hear how the people working on the front lines of equitable development are adapting, organizing, and doubling down on their missions.
Guests on this episode include Nikitra Bailey, Executive Vice President at the National Fair Housing Alliance, which supports more than 170 member organizations nationwide; Dafina Williams, Executive Vice President and Chief Public Policy Officer at Opportunity Finance Network, representing over 470 CDFIs across the country; and Selina Pagán, Executive Director of the Young Latino Network, a grassroots group that has grown into a regional force for civic engagement in Northern Ohio.
This sponsored episode was produced in partnership with Third Space Action Lab. Its Anti-Racist Community Development research project was developed with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the views of the Foundation. To learn more about strategies for advancing practical, concrete change in the sector, visit The People's Practice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawt Media.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We have seen tremendous chaos, dysfunction, and fear injected into communities,
and yet we remain hopeful because we're standing on the constitution.
The Constitution of the United States says justice and fairness
for all. So whenever we're having a conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion,
(00:32):
and accessibility, we're talking about our fundamental rights as American citizens.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This is Lucas Grinley from Next City show about change
makers and their stories. Truth is, there are solutions to
the problems of pressing people in cities. If you're listening,
I hope it's because you want to spread good ideas
from one city to the next city. Today we're partnering
with Third Space Action Lab on this sponsored episode related
to the Anti Racist Community Development Research Project, which has
(00:58):
documented the range of ways that's actual racism still shows
up in community development in the many ways that people
are trying to make community development anti racist. We're in
a moment of uncertainty for community development. Longstanding federal programs
that have funded housing, improved access to home ownership, or
supported small businesses are under threat. On today's episode, we'll
(01:18):
hear from people who aren't backing down, though, instead they're
organizing and adapting. The three leaders we'll hear from are
taking this moment head on, and each comes from a
different kind of intermediary organization that connects national systems with
on the ground impact. We'll hear from Nikitra Bailey. She's
the executive vice president at the National Fair Housing Alliance,
where she leads public policy and communications for a network
(01:41):
of more than one hundred and seventy member organizations. She's
been at the forefront of the national Fair Housing movement,
and when thirty million dollars in grants were suddenly canceled,
NAFHA led the legal fight to restore them. We'll hear
from Sleina Pagan. She's the executive director of the Young
Latino Network, where she's transformed a grassroots volunteer group into
a major force for civic engagement across Northern Ohio. Under
(02:03):
her leadership, the organization emphasizes a bottom up approach to
democracy and community building. And we'll start with Deefena Williams.
She's the executive vice president, chief Public Policy Officer, and
head of Government Affairs at Opportunity Finance Network. She represents
more than four hundred and seventy community development financial institutions
across the country. And when an executive order in March
(02:24):
seem to order the elimination of the CDFI fund or
at least any parts deemed non statutory, it was ofn
leading the swift and strategic effort that successfully defended it.
So how did that happen? Here's Defina. So I'm wondering, Defina,
what's resonating in the messaging that you're bringing to the
capital during meetings on the hill, and of that, what
(02:48):
should people who are listening be able to take back
and say would resonate with their own communities or their
own lawmakers or leaders.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
From the early days of the administration, there have actually
been continued efforts to kind of come after the CDFI
fund in the CDFI industry, some of them more public
than others. And there's been a little bit of an
ethos that, you know, is this the right thing for
the federal government to be stepping in and spending their
money on.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
So that's kind of one piece of it, which is.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And I think we saw that in that executive order
language in March, which was are these you know, things
that are unnecessary and unstatutory. Do we really need to
be doing them? Why are we paying for this? The
other side is this attempt to sort of malign the
industry as some sort of like democratic you know, slush fund.
(03:34):
You know, all these organizations are just out here doing
DEI and climate lending. And I think there were a
couple of things that were demonstrated through our response to
the executive order that I don't think the administration necessarily
knew or was counting on. One is that this is
not a red state or a blue state thing at all. Actually,
the majority of physical locations of CDFIs are actually in
(03:56):
Republican held congressional districts and states.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
So there is a lot of bipartisan support for this
work that is kind.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Of built into what we do because we're simply on
the ground in these communities, actually moving money, making investments
and showing up and a lot of places that might
be more rural have wider populations. There simply just aren't
banks that are making these types of loans, right, and
so cdiffies have been stepping up and actually making those investments.
And there are a lot of folks on Capitol Hill
(04:23):
who know that very acutely and who are deep supporters
of that work. There's a whole caucus in the Senate,
the Community Development Finance Caucus, that brings together some of
the most liberal and some of the most conservative policy
makers for their joint kind of understanding and awareness and
support of the work of cdiffies. And so we turned
to our champions on the Hill. We activated Senators Mortar
(04:43):
and Crapo, who are the co leads of the caucus,
but we also spread well beyond that to really any champion,
particularly Republicans, just given the environment that we're in, that
have been sort of outspoken and vocal supporters of the
work of cdiffi's and we said, hey, we need you
because these are great organsations that are doing really important work.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And we were wildly successful in that.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
We saw, you know, not just sort of broad pushback
from Capitol Hill, but we actually culminated in getting the
Treasury Secretary himself to put a statement of support for
CDFIs out. That's just a strong testament to the years
and years of relationship building and hard work and telling
the stories and bringing the impact data and bringing in
members right and bringing in the actual CDFIs to say,
(05:27):
here's what we're doing in your community on the ground
to help the people that vote for you, and they
were able to exert that influence, they were able to
make those calls over to Treasury, and ultimately, you know,
we got the result we wanted with the executive order.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
This the fight continues.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
This was sort of like one in a series of
things that kind of continue to bubble up time after time,
and so there's some conversations scrolling around will this administration
actually deploy a funding that's already been appropriated by Congress?
And so we're going to have to keep the pressure
on to make sure that we're continuing to see those
resources that are lawfully appropriated by Congress, that the Treasury
(06:05):
Department needs to be spending these funds that that work
actually happens. And I think we're going to need to
continue to work in partnership with these other trade associations,
but also with some of these kind of outside organizations
that also are influential in this administration. So we get
more than half of our borrowed capital that we lend
from cra motivated banks. They are a very important ally
(06:27):
and voice in these discussions because we know that that's
a constituency that is going to get listened to at
the Treasury Department, so we're working with their government affairs people.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
We're thinking a lot.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
About also, like how do we talk about our work
in a way that allows us to stay true to
who we are, but that captures the totality of what
cdifies do. Yes, we make loans that are about resilience
and around energy. Yes, we are doing things that are
advancing racial justice. We're also doing a lot of other
things too, And so whatever sort of your flavor is
(06:58):
of community economic development, there's probably something that you can
find in there that CDFIs are doing that you like.
And we don't want to just be pigeonholed into a
certain type of thing because we know that that's not
going to be helpful as we're navigating this administration. We
are heavily reliant on public sector dollars. We just have
to be real about that. The Chargery Department grants are
critical for the cdfight industry, and also the certification process
(07:22):
that CDFIs have to go through from Treasury is sort
of a good healthkeeping sale of approval that allows other
investors to feel secure in investing in and partnering in
CDFIs and so anything that kind of messes with that
balance of those resources. But also that certification is a
big threat to the industry, and so we're spending a
lot of time thinking about how we can again think
(07:43):
about how we show up, how we message, who we
engage with, and pull all those levers, while also making
sure that we're continuing to stay to stay true to
the mission and the core of the work, because that's
the goal here is to be able to keep on
doing the work on the ground.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One reason that I think the conversation around the CD
of iFund is important is because of a narrative that
you touched on which doesn't only base the CD of iFund.
It's the bond guarantee program, it's light Tech, it's all
the program programs we're going to talk about, and that
is that these programs are some form of subsidy versus
some form of investment. And then what gets called subsidy
(08:22):
serves low income communities home to people of color, and
what gets called investment is serving predominantly white communities.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So, when you come across this narrative and you're talking
with these very powerful players, are you able to have
a conversation about deservedness at its root and what advice
would you have to people out in the community about
how to have these same conversations.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, we have had to change how we talk about
our work. So we are framing it in terms of market,
market gaps, market failures, and how essentially we are the
only sort of lender in town for a lot of.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
These communities that we serve.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So we don't necessarily get a lot of traction with
any of the discussion of conversations around demographics or deservedness
or you know that, like that narrative is just does
not resonate in this current political environment, and so we're
looking at how do they talk about our work. So
we've taken the statements that the Treasury Secretary put out,
(09:27):
We take the statements that Tim Scott, who chairs Senate
Banking and French Hill, who chares House Financial Services. They
talk about main Street, they talk about growth, they talk
about prosperity, they talk about investments, and so we're echoing
back that language and that framing so that they are
able to see themselves in the work that we're doing.
It's just and I know that you know, we've had
a lot of conversations as a CDIFI industry about how
(09:50):
painful that is to really have to kind of back
away from some of the things that are kind of
core to who we are and what we've been doing
over these years. But you know, we've been saying, listen,
this is a moment where our survival is not guaranteed
and we're having to pivot to be able to navigate
this moment. And the work is the work. The words
are the words. You know, Let's make sure that we
(10:12):
can keep on doing the work on the ground. And
if that means that we have to find some different
words to describe it, then we should probably consider doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
After the break, we'll hear how Nikita Bailey and her
team at the National Fair Housing Alliance responded when thirty
million dollars in funding was revoked overnight, and why they
turned to the courts. Welcome back. We're talking about ways
(10:42):
intermediary organizations are organizing to preserve funding for community development.
Before the break, we heard how ofn successfully lobbied to
preserve the CDFI Fund from an executive order. Next, we're
talking about programs that defend Americans from housing discrimination. Back
in February, HUD canceled seventy eight existing grants worth about
thirty million dollars in contracts through the Fair Housing Initiatives Program.
(11:05):
These grant support organizations that do the work of rooting
out housing discrimination, especially against people with disabilities and communities
of color. It's another example of a program with bipartisan roots,
having been originally signed into law by President Ronald Reagan,
but that did not stop the cancelation, and for those
served by the National Fair Housing Alliance, the impact was immediate.
(11:26):
NFAHA took its fight to court. Nikitra Bailey as executive
vice president for NFHA.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Here she is now, I'm sitting here as we're speaking,
and I'm thinking about a quote from Maya Angelo, and
I'm drawn to it in this moment, and she stated
that courage is the most important virtue because without it,
other virtues cannot be consistently practiced. And that is the
work of the fair Housing movement. All of housing and
(11:56):
community development work has always been by part right. I
want us to ground ourselves in that reality, and we
should not allow anyone to get ahead of us and
to define the work that we're doing in communities. When
I think about Charles and Shii Sharad, When I think
about the work of Fannie Lou Hamer, all of the
(12:17):
civil rights infrastructure, birth the community development movement. It is
birth out of core constitutional principles for fairness and justice
and liberty for all. And I think in moments like this,
we can become afraid of those things. But instead of
the National Fair Housing Alliance, what we decided to do
(12:37):
was to make sure we have the foresight and the
ability to sue, to push back, to use our country's
laws and the way that they are intended to be used,
and to rely on our federal courts to do their
jobs and to make sure our laws are being properly enforced.
So we have seen tremendous devastation the fair housing community,
(13:01):
on local fair housing organizations that are serving disabled veterans, seniors,
people with disabilities, families with children, and these kind of
haphazardly thrown together, cancelation of fear, housing initiatives, program grants.
We have seen tremendous chaos, dysfunction, and fear injected into communities.
(13:25):
And yet we remain hopeful because we're standing on the constitution,
the constitution of the United States, says justice and fairness
for all. So whenever we're having a conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion,
and accessibility, we're talking about our fundamental rights as American citizens.
And we are recognizing that this is a conversation that
(13:48):
has long had bipartisan support, and we're requiring the members
of Congress to do what it is that they are
responsible for doing, which is to provide oversight over these
federal funds because Congress appropriates these resources and it is
Congress's responsibility to make sure they are properly spent and
allocated and awarded in the manner in which the Congress
(14:11):
has appropriated them. So, yes, we have seen tremendous harm
to our communities in the fear housing space, but we
have also been very strategic and pursuing litigation to protect
our members and the important people that they serve, because
at the end of the day, this is about people,
everyday people who have been intentionally left behind by our
(14:33):
nation's policies, and at a time where we are in
the throws of affair and affordable housing crisis, policies that
are making housing more expensive, not less. Voters said that
they wanted to see more resources in federal intervention into
housing to make sure we could drive down skyrocket and
housing costs. So we are not retreating from our work.
(14:58):
We are pressing forward because we know that we have
a winning story to tell, and this is something that
we are so grateful for the work that we've been
able to do over these last years. When we think
about the impact of our fair housing organizations that are
supported by the Federal Fair Housing Initiatives Program, they've helped
to build over two hundred, I'm sorry, over two thousand
(15:19):
affordable housing units. They've helped to restore more than one
million vacant blighted homes. They've provided down payment assistance to
over one point four million new homeowners and helped over
four point three million families avoid displacement through emergency replayer
repairs and foreclosure prevention. They've also fostered over two hundred
(15:40):
billion dollars in investments in cities throughout the nation. We've
also been able to use inclusive policies to grow home ownership.
We all remembered the Great Procession where Black and Latino
communities were devastated by the lack of regulation from our
federal government, and it allowed for these very dangerous and
(16:01):
risky practices to permeate our communities without any intervention, and
it ultimately calls the black and Latino consumers a trillion
dollars in lost wealth. But it didn't stay isolated in
our neighborhoods. It ended up reverberating throughout the entire economy.
Because you cannot hurt one part of our country and
(16:21):
not have a negative impact on the broader society. So
what we've done is we've used intentional policies and since
twenty nineteen through twenty twenty four, and it's important here
to note that these policies were put in place under
Trump one. Right like, we didn't come up with new language,
we didn't lose our way. We've been singing the same
song since even before then, because we understand that when
(16:45):
you have equitable opportunities, everybody benefits. So since twenty nineteen
through twenty twenty four, we've seen an increase in Black
home ownership by fourteen percent. We've seen the Asian home
ownership increase by eight percent, we've seen Latino homeownership grow
by four point seven percent, and more importantly, we've seen
(17:06):
white home ownership grow as well by one point eight percent,
and I share that because inclusive policies don't just help
our communities, and inclusive practices don't just serve underserved Black, Latino, Asian,
American and Native communities, they actually help lift the floor
for everyone to have a chance to thrive. And if
we keep forward with the good work that we're doing,
(17:28):
and we continue to utilize programs like special purpose credit
programs that give lenders an opportunity to target solutions to
communities with the history of underservice or first generation home
buyer programs, and inclusive mortgage underwriting practices that are based
on simple ideas around allowing positive rental payment data to
(17:49):
be a factor, we can continue this growth. We've actually
grown so much because we have been focused on the
work of serving our communities, and we can continue to
grow our economy buy five trillion dollars over the next
five years if we address discrimination targeted at Black communities alone.
(18:10):
Discrimination distorts the marketplace, and that's why we have been
working very hard to utilize our systems, including our courts
and our advocacy in Congress, to create the accountability to
make sure the work that's helping people who need the
most support in this moment, seniors, disable veterans, people with disabilities,
(18:32):
survivors of domestic violence, that they are not thrown out
of their homes and then pushed into homelessness. And we're
being courageous at a time where solidarity is really important,
and we are making an intentional choice in this moment
not to leave any community behind. And we would encourage
some of our larger scale community development financial institution partners
(18:55):
to do a better job of well serving underserved Black
communities because part of why we're in the situation that
we're in is because we have not used the effective
tools that we have to be these kind of experimental
places where we can advance progress. We've started to rely
on traditional things that make it easier to exclude, as
(19:17):
opposed to demonstrated how we better include so that we
can pull all communities forward. So in this moment, we've
been meeting it with determination and with faith and with
our eyes focused on the very people we've served for
all of our existence.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Thank you for all those points, especially this one about
how we've already been through when Trump administration and from
twenty nineteen through now, the rate of home ownership amongst
Black Latino families has increased so that the progress was made.
I mean that's a reason to I guess be hopeful
about what could still happen. Now then you're making the case,
it sounds like to me for inclusion, as you know,
(19:59):
beneficial on its own. You feel like that is still
a case that you can make, even in Washington amongst
powerful players. Do you think it can be made at
the community level that inclusion can You can make an
affirmative case for inclusion because.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
It's good for people, and as the Theena said, it's
good for the marketplace, right like the work that we
are all doing is transforming the marketplace. Seven out of
ten future home buyers are going to be people of color.
Housing accounts for nearly twenty percent of our nation's gross
domestic product. If the people for whom the system depends
(20:33):
on for its health cannot have their access, the system
itself will not well function. And that's what we've been
saying well before now we've been seeing in the same zone,
you know, starting way after the Great Recession to now,
because the reality is we've got to lift up the
floor so that we can all together reach the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
After the break, we'll hear from Selina Pagan, who's working
at the community level to make these same policies real,
knocking on doors, building trust, and helping people see where
their power lies welcome back. While national leaders fight to
preserve funding and legal productions, organizers like Selena Pegan are
(21:20):
meeting people where they are, at their doors, on their phones,
and in their neighborhoods. Selena leads the Young Latino Network
in Cleveland, where the team runs a democracy program focused
on real engagement and accessible information. Last year alone, they
knocked on more than eleven thousand doors and made over
fifteen thousand calls.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You know, I think it's the foundation is that we
understand that civic engagement isn't just about election dates. It's
about building a culture of informed participation year round. And
when we're knocking on doors or holding civic dinners, we're
not just asking people to go. We're asking We're having
the conversations about housing, wages, immigrant rights, safety. These are
(22:05):
the policies and issues that people feel like right at
their doors right and we connect them with the ballot.
I'm really grateful that as the Latino Network evolves, we
are in that phase where we can experiment to see
what sticks, like what does resonate with our community and
the type of programming and the type of events that
(22:27):
we host to get folks like just intrigued and interested
in why we need to be involved in this democracy
Because most of the health disparities that we're impacted by
are usually a byproduct of policies. And so when we
talk about redlining to lead poisoning pipeline, like, we need
to talk about that, and our communities are directly impacted
(22:48):
by these pieces, And so how can we have those
conversations at the doors at a community festival, at an
event to get folks more involved? And you know what's
resonated has been the plain language and like value based
conversations now policy jargon, and we have to acknowledge like
these systems they're not broken. These systems are working exactly
(23:10):
how these systems were designed, Like they were designed to
keep a lot of folks out and a lot of
folks under. And so as practitioners, we have to be
mindful of how we're navigating our experiences within those systems
and shifting the way we do it so that we
can meet the people's needs and meet the people where
they're at. And like if we're not talking about democracy,
(23:32):
and we're not talking about civic engagement and like civic
participation in our communities, equitable civic engagement practices, and the
impact of our built environment and the way that community
development has shaped our neighborhoods and have broken a lot
of our neighborhoods apart. Because when I was growing up,
(23:53):
I lived on the near east side of Cleveland, on
a east side block in Slavic Village, full of a
bunch of Puerto Rican that came here from the same town.
Looking at that same neighborhood today where my dad still lives,
our community has been disproportionately impacted by a lot of
these pieces.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I want to ask about one thing Nikk Trilso rased,
which was the importance of solidarity. And I know that
the Young Latino Network is part of something called the
Freedom Dreams Coalition in Cleveland, and that's an example of
solidarity and actions cross sector. It's pipop lad, So how
does it work and what do we have to learn
from what you're doing?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
So you know, the Cleveland Freedom Dreams Coalition is what
happens when we stop competing for the crones and we
start building shared infrastructure rooted in trust, equity, and love
for our people. It's made up of quite a few
different organizations, from the NACP to the United Black Fund,
to Third Space Action Lab, to the George Gun Foundation,
(24:56):
to Cleveland Votes, the Young Latino Network, and we have
quite a few others that are part of this cross
sector coalition of black and brown folks who are taking
our time to build our relationships and trust with one another,
not just as institutions, but as individuals because without that trust,
and I think what we fail to do when we
(25:17):
try to build multi racial, multi generational coalitions is we
don't take the time to really be upfront and build
trust with people. And folks who are practitioners and all
of these different sectors have gone through their own stuff.
People are hurt, right, People are traumatized in so many
different sectors and the way they come up in their careers,
(25:40):
and I feel like the work often leaves that part behind.
And so we're expected, especially when philanthropy comes knocking, like hey,
we got some dollars for you all to build a coalition. Well,
hold on, let's talk about how we build a coalition
that is genuinely grounded in solidarity. And trust and community,
(26:00):
not just for the dollars right, and not just for
the sake of an external power player telling us how
we should move. And I'm so grateful for the Freedom
Dreams Coalition in that sacred space that we've created to
talk about housing, to talk about economic development, equitable civic engagement,
and civic infrastructure through a broader coalition that uses a
(26:26):
lot of different frameworks and is grounded in this philosophy
that we want a city, a dignified city for our people,
and that we are dignified people and deserve better. The
City of Cleveland's also at the table. So we have philanthropy,
we have local government, we have smaller organizations, historically black
led institutions, and so all of us coming together one
(26:50):
with our resources, our time, talents and treasures to figure
out how we can shift the dynamics and do really
powerful work within these specific sects that we've identified. The
Cleveland Freedom Dreams Coalition is part of the Partnership for
Equitable Resilient Communities, which is in Selma and a couple
other different cities, and so our coalition table was founded
(27:11):
a few years ago through that opportunity, but at the
same time we have created something that can outlive whatever
comes our way. And so part of it has been
building trust and having the space to work through conflict
because we also often don't talk about conflict and coalition
and like we don't always have to agree on how
we do things, but what do we agree on the
(27:33):
end goal for our communities? And so that has been
a really cool opportunity as a younger person at the
table to have some of these ogs in the space
talk to us and build with us, not over us.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, thanks for that. It's a great example of solidarity.
I want to see if there's some examples of solidarity
and action from Defina and Nikititra, if there's one that
you'd want to highlight. I feel like we need more
examples that we could replicate, copy, inspire us. Defina, what
are you saying At the.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
End of the day, this is about people.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
It's not about a program or about an executive order,
but it's about like how do we keep these communities
being able to thrive and survive. And you know, we're
also trying to make sure that whatever sort of bully
pulpit we have as ofn AS Intermedia as a capital
aggregator for people that are interested in staying aligned with
(28:23):
this work, that they are able to continue coming to
the table, continuing to make those those investments, continue to
provide that capital, but also that messaging, that public support
to make sure that we're just not out here on
an island by ourselves trying to do everything we need.
We need to be in coalition and in partnership with
others in order to push back on all this. Because
(28:44):
I agree with the teacher, like what happens to the
least of us impacts everyone, and so we can't have
this mindset that like, oh, we'll just you know, we'll
just come back to this in four years and we'll
try to figure out, you know, how we rebuild it.
Like no, that we have to hold our policy makers
accountable for investing in our our communities. So we have
to keep the pressure on them to let them know
that we're watching, that we're paying attention to how they
(29:06):
show up in this moment and how they're you know,
continuing to sew up for our communities, and that these
decisions and these that we're making right now are going
to be the ones that we're all going to remember
going forward. So we're just trying to make sure that
we're lining up as many partners as we can and
that we're continuing to try to keep those investments in
that capital flowing, because that's where we sit in this
part of the equation, right, it is just how do
(29:27):
we keep the dollars flowing into the communities.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, if there was a reaction at the start of
everything where people felt like they had to retrench and
sort of protect themselves, there's a growing realization that we
can't be an island and that we have to be
in coalition with each other. I think you're right about that. Yeah,
it keeps sure. What are you seeing as an example
of solidarity and action that you think would be worth highlighting.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I maybe been two examples that have just been shared
or excellent. We've been working as a broad coalition. Not
only are we in coalition with other advocates, we're in
coalition with industry. Right, Like, industry can get into places
that we might not be able to get into. So
we are making sure we're educating our industry partners. We're
asking them to stand up. People might recall that under
(30:12):
trunk one, this idea of disparate impact and affirmatively further
on sair housing came under attack. It was industry partners
that stood in coalition with us that said no, these policies,
these fair housing and linded practices are critical for our economy.
We don't want to see them dismantle because industry understands
that the law is the law. Our fair housing and
(30:32):
London laws are statutory. You cannot change them by executive order,
and they know that with the change of an administration
we could go right back in a different direction. They
want to see consistency, They don't want to go back
and forth with the when. So I think, in addition
to the great suggestions that Dethina and Selena just share,
I just want to lift up how we are mobilized
(30:53):
with our industry partners so that we can effectively advocate
on behalf of the communities that we serve. And we're
having those hard conversations with everyone right reminding everyone that
we all have a stake and fair opportunity, and that
we need to make sure we're building ladders to opportunity,
not dismantling fair access in this moment.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Next City show
about change makers and their stories. Together, we can spread
good ideas from one city to the next city. Thank
you for listening this week. The best way to keep
up with all the research by Thirdspace Action Lab is
by subscribing to their newsletter at the Peoplespractice dot org.
The Anti Racist Community Development Research Project was developed with
support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The views expressed
(31:50):
here do not necessarily reflect the views of the Foundation.
Thank you to our guests Dafina Williams, Executive vice president,
chief public Policy Officer and Head of Government Affairs at
Opportunity Finance Network, Niki Tribailey, executive vice president at the
National Fairhousing Alliance, and Selina Pagan, executive director at the
Young Latino Network. This episode was adapted from a sponsored
webinar with Third Space Action Lab. To watch the whole conversation,
(32:12):
visit nextcity dot org slash webinars. Our audio producer is
Slavana Alcala, Our show producer is Maggie Bowles, Our executive
producer is Ryan Tillotson, and I'm Lucas Grimley, executive director
for Next City. We'd love to hear any feedback from
our listeners. Please feel free to email us at info
at nexcity dot org and if you haven't already, subscribed
to the show on Apple, Spotify, good Pods, or anywhere
(32:33):
you listen to your podcasts.
Strawt Media.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We have seen tremendous chaos, dysfunction, and fear injected into communities,
and yet we remain hopeful because we're standing on the constitution.
The Constitution of the United States says justice and fairness
for all. So whenever we're having a conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion,
(00:32):
and accessibility, we're talking about our fundamental rights as American citizens.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This is Lucas Grinley from Next City show about change
makers and their stories. Truth is, there are solutions to
the problems of pressing people in cities. If you're listening,
I hope it's because you want to spread good ideas
from one city to the next city. Today we're partnering
with Third Space Action Lab on this sponsored episode related
to the Anti Racist Community Development Research Project, which has
(00:58):
documented the range of ways that's actual racism still shows
up in community development in the many ways that people
are trying to make community development anti racist. We're in
a moment of uncertainty for community development. Longstanding federal programs
that have funded housing, improved access to home ownership, or
supported small businesses are under threat. On today's episode, we'll
(01:18):
hear from people who aren't backing down, though, instead they're
organizing and adapting. The three leaders we'll hear from are
taking this moment head on, and each comes from a
different kind of intermediary organization that connects national systems with
on the ground impact. We'll hear from Nikitra Bailey. She's
the executive vice president at the National Fair Housing Alliance,
where she leads public policy and communications for a network
(01:41):
of more than one hundred and seventy member organizations. She's
been at the forefront of the national Fair Housing movement,
and when thirty million dollars in grants were suddenly canceled,
NAFHA led the legal fight to restore them. We'll hear
from Sleina Pagan. She's the executive director of the Young
Latino Network, where she's transformed a grassroots volunteer group into
a major force for civic engagement across Northern Ohio. Under
(02:03):
her leadership, the organization emphasizes a bottom up approach to
democracy and community building. And we'll start with Deefena Williams.
She's the executive vice president, chief Public Policy Officer, and
head of Government Affairs at Opportunity Finance Network. She represents
more than four hundred and seventy community development financial institutions
across the country. And when an executive order in March
(02:24):
seem to order the elimination of the CDFI fund or
at least any parts deemed non statutory, it was ofn
leading the swift and strategic effort that successfully defended it.
So how did that happen? Here's Defina. So I'm wondering, Defina,
what's resonating in the messaging that you're bringing to the
capital during meetings on the hill, and of that, what
(02:48):
should people who are listening be able to take back
and say would resonate with their own communities or their
own lawmakers or leaders.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
From the early days of the administration, there have actually
been continued efforts to kind of come after the CDFI
fund in the CDFI industry, some of them more public
than others. And there's been a little bit of an
ethos that, you know, is this the right thing for
the federal government to be stepping in and spending their
money on.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
So that's kind of one piece of it, which is.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And I think we saw that in that executive order
language in March, which was are these you know, things
that are unnecessary and unstatutory. Do we really need to
be doing them? Why are we paying for this? The
other side is this attempt to sort of malign the
industry as some sort of like democratic you know, slush fund.
(03:34):
You know, all these organizations are just out here doing
DEI and climate lending. And I think there were a
couple of things that were demonstrated through our response to
the executive order that I don't think the administration necessarily
knew or was counting on. One is that this is
not a red state or a blue state thing at all. Actually,
the majority of physical locations of CDFIs are actually in
(03:56):
Republican held congressional districts and states.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
So there is a lot of bipartisan support for this
work that is kind.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Of built into what we do because we're simply on
the ground in these communities, actually moving money, making investments
and showing up and a lot of places that might
be more rural have wider populations. There simply just aren't
banks that are making these types of loans, right, and
so cdiffies have been stepping up and actually making those investments.
And there are a lot of folks on Capitol Hill
(04:23):
who know that very acutely and who are deep supporters
of that work. There's a whole caucus in the Senate,
the Community Development Finance Caucus, that brings together some of
the most liberal and some of the most conservative policy
makers for their joint kind of understanding and awareness and
support of the work of cdiffies. And so we turned
to our champions on the Hill. We activated Senators Mortar
(04:43):
and Crapo, who are the co leads of the caucus,
but we also spread well beyond that to really any champion,
particularly Republicans, just given the environment that we're in, that
have been sort of outspoken and vocal supporters of the
work of cdiffi's and we said, hey, we need you
because these are great organsations that are doing really important work.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And we were wildly successful in that.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
We saw, you know, not just sort of broad pushback
from Capitol Hill, but we actually culminated in getting the
Treasury Secretary himself to put a statement of support for
CDFIs out. That's just a strong testament to the years
and years of relationship building and hard work and telling
the stories and bringing the impact data and bringing in
members right and bringing in the actual CDFIs to say,
(05:27):
here's what we're doing in your community on the ground
to help the people that vote for you, and they
were able to exert that influence, they were able to
make those calls over to Treasury, and ultimately, you know,
we got the result we wanted with the executive order.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
This the fight continues.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
This was sort of like one in a series of
things that kind of continue to bubble up time after time,
and so there's some conversations scrolling around will this administration
actually deploy a funding that's already been appropriated by Congress?
And so we're going to have to keep the pressure
on to make sure that we're continuing to see those
resources that are lawfully appropriated by Congress, that the Treasury
(06:05):
Department needs to be spending these funds that that work
actually happens. And I think we're going to need to
continue to work in partnership with these other trade associations,
but also with some of these kind of outside organizations
that also are influential in this administration. So we get
more than half of our borrowed capital that we lend
from cra motivated banks. They are a very important ally
(06:27):
and voice in these discussions because we know that that's
a constituency that is going to get listened to at
the Treasury Department, so we're working with their government affairs people.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
We're thinking a lot.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
About also, like how do we talk about our work
in a way that allows us to stay true to
who we are, but that captures the totality of what
cdifies do. Yes, we make loans that are about resilience
and around energy. Yes, we are doing things that are
advancing racial justice. We're also doing a lot of other
things too, And so whatever sort of your flavor is
(06:58):
of community economic development, there's probably something that you can
find in there that CDFIs are doing that you like.
And we don't want to just be pigeonholed into a
certain type of thing because we know that that's not
going to be helpful as we're navigating this administration. We
are heavily reliant on public sector dollars. We just have
to be real about that. The Chargery Department grants are
critical for the cdfight industry, and also the certification process
(07:22):
that CDFIs have to go through from Treasury is sort
of a good healthkeeping sale of approval that allows other
investors to feel secure in investing in and partnering in
CDFIs and so anything that kind of messes with that
balance of those resources. But also that certification is a
big threat to the industry, and so we're spending a
lot of time thinking about how we can again think
(07:43):
about how we show up, how we message, who we
engage with, and pull all those levers, while also making
sure that we're continuing to stay to stay true to
the mission and the core of the work, because that's
the goal here is to be able to keep on
doing the work on the ground.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One reason that I think the conversation around the CD
of iFund is important is because of a narrative that
you touched on which doesn't only base the CD of iFund.
It's the bond guarantee program, it's light Tech, it's all
the program programs we're going to talk about, and that
is that these programs are some form of subsidy versus
some form of investment. And then what gets called subsidy
(08:22):
serves low income communities home to people of color, and
what gets called investment is serving predominantly white communities.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So, when you come across this narrative and you're talking
with these very powerful players, are you able to have
a conversation about deservedness at its root and what advice
would you have to people out in the community about
how to have these same conversations.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, we have had to change how we talk about
our work. So we are framing it in terms of market,
market gaps, market failures, and how essentially we are the
only sort of lender in town for a lot of.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
These communities that we serve.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
So we don't necessarily get a lot of traction with
any of the discussion of conversations around demographics or deservedness
or you know that, like that narrative is just does
not resonate in this current political environment, and so we're
looking at how do they talk about our work. So
we've taken the statements that the Treasury Secretary put out,
(09:27):
We take the statements that Tim Scott, who chairs Senate
Banking and French Hill, who chares House Financial Services. They
talk about main Street, they talk about growth, they talk
about prosperity, they talk about investments, and so we're echoing
back that language and that framing so that they are
able to see themselves in the work that we're doing.
It's just and I know that you know, we've had
a lot of conversations as a CDIFI industry about how
(09:50):
painful that is to really have to kind of back
away from some of the things that are kind of
core to who we are and what we've been doing
over these years. But you know, we've been saying, listen,
this is a moment where our survival is not guaranteed
and we're having to pivot to be able to navigate
this moment. And the work is the work. The words
are the words. You know, Let's make sure that we
(10:12):
can keep on doing the work on the ground. And
if that means that we have to find some different
words to describe it, then we should probably consider doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
After the break, we'll hear how Nikita Bailey and her
team at the National Fair Housing Alliance responded when thirty
million dollars in funding was revoked overnight, and why they
turned to the courts. Welcome back. We're talking about ways
(10:42):
intermediary organizations are organizing to preserve funding for community development.
Before the break, we heard how ofn successfully lobbied to
preserve the CDFI Fund from an executive order. Next, we're
talking about programs that defend Americans from housing discrimination. Back
in February, HUD canceled seventy eight existing grants worth about
thirty million dollars in contracts through the Fair Housing Initiatives Program.
(11:05):
These grant support organizations that do the work of rooting
out housing discrimination, especially against people with disabilities and communities
of color. It's another example of a program with bipartisan roots,
having been originally signed into law by President Ronald Reagan,
but that did not stop the cancelation, and for those
served by the National Fair Housing Alliance, the impact was immediate.
(11:26):
NFAHA took its fight to court. Nikitra Bailey as executive
vice president for NFHA.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Here she is now, I'm sitting here as we're speaking,
and I'm thinking about a quote from Maya Angelo, and
I'm drawn to it in this moment, and she stated
that courage is the most important virtue because without it,
other virtues cannot be consistently practiced. And that is the
work of the fair Housing movement. All of housing and
(11:56):
community development work has always been by part right. I
want us to ground ourselves in that reality, and we
should not allow anyone to get ahead of us and
to define the work that we're doing in communities. When
I think about Charles and Shii Sharad, When I think
about the work of Fannie Lou Hamer, all of the
(12:17):
civil rights infrastructure, birth the community development movement. It is
birth out of core constitutional principles for fairness and justice
and liberty for all. And I think in moments like this,
we can become afraid of those things. But instead of
the National Fair Housing Alliance, what we decided to do
(12:37):
was to make sure we have the foresight and the
ability to sue, to push back, to use our country's
laws and the way that they are intended to be used,
and to rely on our federal courts to do their
jobs and to make sure our laws are being properly enforced.
So we have seen tremendous devastation the fair housing community,
(13:01):
on local fair housing organizations that are serving disabled veterans, seniors,
people with disabilities, families with children, and these kind of
haphazardly thrown together, cancelation of fear, housing initiatives, program grants.
We have seen tremendous chaos, dysfunction, and fear injected into communities.
(13:25):
And yet we remain hopeful because we're standing on the constitution,
the constitution of the United States, says justice and fairness
for all. So whenever we're having a conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion,
and accessibility, we're talking about our fundamental rights as American citizens.
And we are recognizing that this is a conversation that
(13:48):
has long had bipartisan support, and we're requiring the members
of Congress to do what it is that they are
responsible for doing, which is to provide oversight over these
federal funds because Congress appropriates these resources and it is
Congress's responsibility to make sure they are properly spent and
allocated and awarded in the manner in which the Congress
(14:11):
has appropriated them. So, yes, we have seen tremendous harm
to our communities in the fear housing space, but we
have also been very strategic and pursuing litigation to protect
our members and the important people that they serve, because
at the end of the day, this is about people,
everyday people who have been intentionally left behind by our
(14:33):
nation's policies, and at a time where we are in
the throws of affair and affordable housing crisis, policies that
are making housing more expensive, not less. Voters said that
they wanted to see more resources in federal intervention into
housing to make sure we could drive down skyrocket and
housing costs. So we are not retreating from our work.
(14:58):
We are pressing forward because we know that we have
a winning story to tell, and this is something that
we are so grateful for the work that we've been
able to do over these last years. When we think
about the impact of our fair housing organizations that are
supported by the Federal Fair Housing Initiatives Program, they've helped
to build over two hundred, I'm sorry, over two thousand
(15:19):
affordable housing units. They've helped to restore more than one
million vacant blighted homes. They've provided down payment assistance to
over one point four million new homeowners and helped over
four point three million families avoid displacement through emergency replayer
repairs and foreclosure prevention. They've also fostered over two hundred
(15:40):
billion dollars in investments in cities throughout the nation. We've
also been able to use inclusive policies to grow home ownership.
We all remembered the Great Procession where Black and Latino
communities were devastated by the lack of regulation from our
federal government, and it allowed for these very dangerous and
(16:01):
risky practices to permeate our communities without any intervention, and
it ultimately calls the black and Latino consumers a trillion
dollars in lost wealth. But it didn't stay isolated in
our neighborhoods. It ended up reverberating throughout the entire economy.
Because you cannot hurt one part of our country and
(16:21):
not have a negative impact on the broader society. So
what we've done is we've used intentional policies and since
twenty nineteen through twenty twenty four, and it's important here
to note that these policies were put in place under
Trump one. Right like, we didn't come up with new language,
we didn't lose our way. We've been singing the same
song since even before then, because we understand that when
(16:45):
you have equitable opportunities, everybody benefits. So since twenty nineteen
through twenty twenty four, we've seen an increase in Black
home ownership by fourteen percent. We've seen the Asian home
ownership increase by eight percent, we've seen Latino homeownership grow
by four point seven percent, and more importantly, we've seen
(17:06):
white home ownership grow as well by one point eight percent,
and I share that because inclusive policies don't just help
our communities, and inclusive practices don't just serve underserved Black, Latino, Asian,
American and Native communities, they actually help lift the floor
for everyone to have a chance to thrive. And if
we keep forward with the good work that we're doing,
(17:28):
and we continue to utilize programs like special purpose credit
programs that give lenders an opportunity to target solutions to
communities with the history of underservice or first generation home
buyer programs, and inclusive mortgage underwriting practices that are based
on simple ideas around allowing positive rental payment data to
(17:49):
be a factor, we can continue this growth. We've actually
grown so much because we have been focused on the
work of serving our communities, and we can continue to
grow our economy buy five trillion dollars over the next
five years if we address discrimination targeted at Black communities alone.
(18:10):
Discrimination distorts the marketplace, and that's why we have been
working very hard to utilize our systems, including our courts
and our advocacy in Congress, to create the accountability to
make sure the work that's helping people who need the
most support in this moment, seniors, disable veterans, people with disabilities,
(18:32):
survivors of domestic violence, that they are not thrown out
of their homes and then pushed into homelessness. And we're
being courageous at a time where solidarity is really important,
and we are making an intentional choice in this moment
not to leave any community behind. And we would encourage
some of our larger scale community development financial institution partners
(18:55):
to do a better job of well serving underserved Black
communities because part of why we're in the situation that
we're in is because we have not used the effective
tools that we have to be these kind of experimental
places where we can advance progress. We've started to rely
on traditional things that make it easier to exclude, as
(19:17):
opposed to demonstrated how we better include so that we
can pull all communities forward. So in this moment, we've
been meeting it with determination and with faith and with
our eyes focused on the very people we've served for
all of our existence.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Thank you for all those points, especially this one about
how we've already been through when Trump administration and from
twenty nineteen through now, the rate of home ownership amongst
Black Latino families has increased so that the progress was made.
I mean that's a reason to I guess be hopeful
about what could still happen. Now then you're making the case,
it sounds like to me for inclusion, as you know,
(19:59):
beneficial on its own. You feel like that is still
a case that you can make, even in Washington amongst
powerful players. Do you think it can be made at
the community level that inclusion can You can make an
affirmative case for inclusion because.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
It's good for people, and as the Theena said, it's
good for the marketplace, right like the work that we
are all doing is transforming the marketplace. Seven out of
ten future home buyers are going to be people of color.
Housing accounts for nearly twenty percent of our nation's gross
domestic product. If the people for whom the system depends
(20:33):
on for its health cannot have their access, the system
itself will not well function. And that's what we've been
saying well before now we've been seeing in the same zone,
you know, starting way after the Great Recession to now,
because the reality is we've got to lift up the
floor so that we can all together reach the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
After the break, we'll hear from Selina Pagan, who's working
at the community level to make these same policies real,
knocking on doors, building trust, and helping people see where
their power lies welcome back. While national leaders fight to
preserve funding and legal productions, organizers like Selena Pegan are
(21:20):
meeting people where they are, at their doors, on their phones,
and in their neighborhoods. Selena leads the Young Latino Network
in Cleveland, where the team runs a democracy program focused
on real engagement and accessible information. Last year alone, they
knocked on more than eleven thousand doors and made over
fifteen thousand calls.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You know, I think it's the foundation is that we
understand that civic engagement isn't just about election dates. It's
about building a culture of informed participation year round. And
when we're knocking on doors or holding civic dinners, we're
not just asking people to go. We're asking We're having
the conversations about housing, wages, immigrant rights, safety. These are
(22:05):
the policies and issues that people feel like right at
their doors right and we connect them with the ballot.
I'm really grateful that as the Latino Network evolves, we
are in that phase where we can experiment to see
what sticks, like what does resonate with our community and
the type of programming and the type of events that
(22:27):
we host to get folks like just intrigued and interested
in why we need to be involved in this democracy
Because most of the health disparities that we're impacted by
are usually a byproduct of policies. And so when we
talk about redlining to lead poisoning pipeline, like, we need
to talk about that, and our communities are directly impacted
(22:48):
by these pieces, And so how can we have those
conversations at the doors at a community festival, at an
event to get folks more involved? And you know what's
resonated has been the plain language and like value based
conversations now policy jargon, and we have to acknowledge like
these systems they're not broken. These systems are working exactly
(23:10):
how these systems were designed, Like they were designed to
keep a lot of folks out and a lot of
folks under. And so as practitioners, we have to be
mindful of how we're navigating our experiences within those systems
and shifting the way we do it so that we
can meet the people's needs and meet the people where
they're at. And like if we're not talking about democracy,
(23:32):
and we're not talking about civic engagement and like civic
participation in our communities, equitable civic engagement practices, and the
impact of our built environment and the way that community
development has shaped our neighborhoods and have broken a lot
of our neighborhoods apart. Because when I was growing up,
(23:53):
I lived on the near east side of Cleveland, on
a east side block in Slavic Village, full of a
bunch of Puerto Rican that came here from the same town.
Looking at that same neighborhood today where my dad still lives,
our community has been disproportionately impacted by a lot of
these pieces.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I want to ask about one thing Nikk Trilso rased,
which was the importance of solidarity. And I know that
the Young Latino Network is part of something called the
Freedom Dreams Coalition in Cleveland, and that's an example of
solidarity and actions cross sector. It's pipop lad, So how
does it work and what do we have to learn
from what you're doing?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
So you know, the Cleveland Freedom Dreams Coalition is what
happens when we stop competing for the crones and we
start building shared infrastructure rooted in trust, equity, and love
for our people. It's made up of quite a few
different organizations, from the NACP to the United Black Fund,
to Third Space Action Lab, to the George Gun Foundation,
(24:56):
to Cleveland Votes, the Young Latino Network, and we have
quite a few others that are part of this cross
sector coalition of black and brown folks who are taking
our time to build our relationships and trust with one another,
not just as institutions, but as individuals because without that trust,
and I think what we fail to do when we
(25:17):
try to build multi racial, multi generational coalitions is we
don't take the time to really be upfront and build
trust with people. And folks who are practitioners and all
of these different sectors have gone through their own stuff.
People are hurt, right, People are traumatized in so many
different sectors and the way they come up in their careers,
(25:40):
and I feel like the work often leaves that part behind.
And so we're expected, especially when philanthropy comes knocking, like hey,
we got some dollars for you all to build a coalition. Well,
hold on, let's talk about how we build a coalition
that is genuinely grounded in solidarity. And trust and community,
(26:00):
not just for the dollars right, and not just for
the sake of an external power player telling us how
we should move. And I'm so grateful for the Freedom
Dreams Coalition in that sacred space that we've created to
talk about housing, to talk about economic development, equitable civic engagement,
and civic infrastructure through a broader coalition that uses a
(26:26):
lot of different frameworks and is grounded in this philosophy
that we want a city, a dignified city for our people,
and that we are dignified people and deserve better. The
City of Cleveland's also at the table. So we have philanthropy,
we have local government, we have smaller organizations, historically black
led institutions, and so all of us coming together one
(26:50):
with our resources, our time, talents and treasures to figure
out how we can shift the dynamics and do really
powerful work within these specific sects that we've identified. The
Cleveland Freedom Dreams Coalition is part of the Partnership for
Equitable Resilient Communities, which is in Selma and a couple
other different cities, and so our coalition table was founded
(27:11):
a few years ago through that opportunity, but at the
same time we have created something that can outlive whatever
comes our way. And so part of it has been
building trust and having the space to work through conflict
because we also often don't talk about conflict and coalition
and like we don't always have to agree on how
we do things, but what do we agree on the
(27:33):
end goal for our communities? And so that has been
a really cool opportunity as a younger person at the
table to have some of these ogs in the space
talk to us and build with us, not over us.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, thanks for that. It's a great example of solidarity.
I want to see if there's some examples of solidarity
and action from Defina and Nikititra, if there's one that
you'd want to highlight. I feel like we need more
examples that we could replicate, copy, inspire us. Defina, what
are you saying At the.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
End of the day, this is about people.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
It's not about a program or about an executive order,
but it's about like how do we keep these communities
being able to thrive and survive. And you know, we're
also trying to make sure that whatever sort of bully
pulpit we have as ofn AS Intermedia as a capital
aggregator for people that are interested in staying aligned with
(28:23):
this work, that they are able to continue coming to
the table, continuing to make those those investments, continue to
provide that capital, but also that messaging, that public support
to make sure that we're just not out here on
an island by ourselves trying to do everything we need.
We need to be in coalition and in partnership with
others in order to push back on all this. Because
(28:44):
I agree with the teacher, like what happens to the
least of us impacts everyone, and so we can't have
this mindset that like, oh, we'll just you know, we'll
just come back to this in four years and we'll
try to figure out, you know, how we rebuild it.
Like no, that we have to hold our policy makers
accountable for investing in our our communities. So we have
to keep the pressure on them to let them know
that we're watching, that we're paying attention to how they
(29:06):
show up in this moment and how they're you know,
continuing to sew up for our communities, and that these
decisions and these that we're making right now are going
to be the ones that we're all going to remember
going forward. So we're just trying to make sure that
we're lining up as many partners as we can and
that we're continuing to try to keep those investments in
that capital flowing, because that's where we sit in this
part of the equation, right, it is just how do
(29:27):
we keep the dollars flowing into the communities.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, if there was a reaction at the start of
everything where people felt like they had to retrench and
sort of protect themselves, there's a growing realization that we
can't be an island and that we have to be
in coalition with each other. I think you're right about that. Yeah,
it keeps sure. What are you seeing as an example
of solidarity and action that you think would be worth highlighting.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I maybe been two examples that have just been shared
or excellent. We've been working as a broad coalition. Not
only are we in coalition with other advocates, we're in
coalition with industry. Right, Like, industry can get into places
that we might not be able to get into. So
we are making sure we're educating our industry partners. We're
asking them to stand up. People might recall that under
(30:12):
trunk one, this idea of disparate impact and affirmatively further
on sair housing came under attack. It was industry partners
that stood in coalition with us that said no, these policies,
these fair housing and linded practices are critical for our economy.
We don't want to see them dismantle because industry understands
that the law is the law. Our fair housing and
(30:32):
London laws are statutory. You cannot change them by executive order,
and they know that with the change of an administration
we could go right back in a different direction. They
want to see consistency, They don't want to go back
and forth with the when. So I think, in addition
to the great suggestions that Dethina and Selena just share,
I just want to lift up how we are mobilized
(30:53):
with our industry partners so that we can effectively advocate
on behalf of the communities that we serve. And we're
having those hard conversations with everyone right reminding everyone that
we all have a stake and fair opportunity, and that
we need to make sure we're building ladders to opportunity,
not dismantling fair access in this moment.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Next City show
about change makers and their stories. Together, we can spread
good ideas from one city to the next city. Thank
you for listening this week. The best way to keep
up with all the research by Thirdspace Action Lab is
by subscribing to their newsletter at the Peoplespractice dot org.
The Anti Racist Community Development Research Project was developed with
support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The views expressed
(31:50):
here do not necessarily reflect the views of the Foundation.
Thank you to our guests Dafina Williams, Executive vice president,
chief public Policy Officer and Head of Government Affairs at
Opportunity Finance Network, Niki Tribailey, executive vice president at the
National Fairhousing Alliance, and Selina Pagan, executive director at the
Young Latino Network. This episode was adapted from a sponsored
webinar with Third Space Action Lab. To watch the whole conversation,
(32:12):
visit nextcity dot org slash webinars. Our audio producer is
Slavana Alcala, Our show producer is Maggie Bowles, Our executive
producer is Ryan Tillotson, and I'm Lucas Grimley, executive director
for Next City. We'd love to hear any feedback from
our listeners. Please feel free to email us at info
at nexcity dot org and if you haven't already, subscribed
to the show on Apple, Spotify, good Pods, or anywhere
(32:33):
you listen to your podcasts.
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