Tears, Tantrums, and Tom Sandoval: The Traitors Reunion Special That Had Us Howling

The grand finale of The Traitors Season 3 delivered a stunning conclusion as four faithfuls—Gabby, Dylan, Ivar, and Dolores—outlasted the traitors and split the prize money. What makes this outcome so fascinating is that none of these winners were particularly strategic standouts or even fan favorites, raising questions about how they managed to succeed where more dynamic players failed.

At the heart of this season's drama was Danielle, whose performance as a traitor created one of the show's most interesting contradictions. While her fellow contestants praised her longevity and effectiveness, viewers at home cringed at her over-the-top emotional displays—literally crying and shaking on the castle floor. This disconnect highlights the strange reality of the game, where what works inside the pressure cooker environment often doesn't translate to compelling television.

The reunion special revealed surprising connections and lingering tensions. Dylan's puppy-dog admiration for Boston Rob (meeting him at the airport with an almost father-son embrace), Brittany's casual dismissal of her three-hour pre-show acquaintance with Danielle, and Tom Sandoval's unshakeable self-confidence despite being the butt of everyone's jokes all added layers to the personalities we'd been watching all season. Even host Alan Cumming couldn't maintain his composure during some of the more ridiculous moments, with producers reportedly having to tell him through his earpiece to "fix your face."

Looking ahead, the show faces a crucial decision point. With three seasons completed, The Traitors needs to evolve to maintain its momentum. Whether that means casting more strategic players, reformatting the missions, or perhaps creating a "villains" season with notoriously untrustworthy reality stars, something needs to change to recapture the magic of that first, Emmy-winning season of casting. The distinctly Scottish setting with its atmospheric castle and moody weather remains essential to the show's DNA, but within that framework, fresh approaches to gameplay could reignite the strategic fireworks that made earlier seasons so compelling.

Contact Niq & Jess

Episode Transcript

Niq (00:00):
Hi guys, welcome back to next episode with Nick and Jess,
and today we're going to talkabout the ending of Traitors.
Yes, I'm so excited, I'm veryexcited, to talk about Traitors.
I did not think that we wouldbe able to discuss it and so I
am caught up.

(00:21):
I finished the season andwatched the reunion and I can
say I think I'm slightly pleasedwith the ending.
None of the people who made itto the end I was rooting for,
but I don't have like a hardlike dislike or hatred.
I thought they played a goodgame.
You know they weren't likestandout.

(00:44):
Oh my God.

Jess (00:45):
Some of the oh my god, some of the coasted Ivar and
Dolores coasted to me.

Niq (00:52):
I I do definitely think that Ivar coasted.
I will agree with you, dolores.
I felt like she was underscrutiny a lot, and so I I think
that she had to have beenplaying some sort of game for
her name to come up, because Ifeel like her name kept coming
up the entire game.
I think she was intimidatingpeople, though.

Jess (01:16):
Okay, maybe coasted is the wrong word for her, but I don't
know that.
She's playing a good game.
She just kind of never got out.
You know what I mean?
Because she never was rightabout.
She wasn't getting traitors out.
Her name would come up but itwould be like one person stuck
on her and everybody else wouldbe focused on somebody else.

(01:37):
She was just always wrong aboutwhoever the traitor was.
She trusted the wrong people,but she still made it to the end
.
Gabby and Dylan were engaged inthe game.

Niq (01:49):
They were very much so.
They actually like hadpersonalities, they actually did
strategize.
I feel like Ivar was leaningback on the I'm an aristocrat,
so I couldn't be a faithful.
And Dolores was likethreatening people with violence
if they were traitors, and so Ithink that that honestly made
her like seem like a faithful,because why would you like?

(02:13):
She was like looking people inthe eye, like she walked up on
Dylan and was like are youfaithful?
Because if you vote me out atthe end, I'm going to kill you.
And I couldn't understand, likeI'm like, do you need this
money?
I couldn't understand.
Like I'm like do you need thismoney or are you just like?
That's just your personality?

Jess (02:29):
I think that's just her personality.
I don't even feel like sheneeded the money At the end.
She's like well, what's mostimportant more than important
than the money is that we're allleft with friends.
Chick, that was not theassignment.
No that you know.
Hey, I'm glad that you gotfriends.
This is a weird way to go aboutit.

Niq (02:46):
I'm telling you the thing about traitors and I think it's
that, being cooped up together,they form these unnatural
attachments to each other andthey are pledging, like this
loyalty and this fidelity andthis lifelong intensity.
And I'm like, guys, guys, it'sa, it's a game.

(03:08):
It's a game, it's a, it's a,it's a game.

Jess (03:12):
It does get intense.
It does.
I don't know if you can avoidthe intensity though.
Yeah, Like with being cooped uptogether.
We're trying to figure all thisstuff out with all the pressure
on there, but yeah, they bondtogether like war veterans.

Niq (03:25):
They did this stuff out with all the pressure on there.
But yeah, they bond togetherlike war veterans they did.
And so one of the things likewe've been talking about how we
have not enjoyed danielle as atraitor, and you know it, it's
it hurts because I love to rootfor the black person, me too,
and so like, and I like to rootfor the traitors in general.
I like to root for the traitorsin general.
I like to root for the traitors, and so it's like you are like

(03:46):
the Black traitor, but you aregetting on my nerves.
Yes, and I thought it wasinteresting in the reunion when
they were talking about thepublic's perception of Danielle
as a traitor versus how theyfelt as players in the game and
how they felt like Danielle dida great job as a traitor because
she lasted so long any othertraitor and viewers at home were

(04:09):
like she was awful, it wasawful to watch.
Do you think she got a bad edit?

Jess (04:16):
no, I don't think.
I don't think she got a badedit.
The reason why I said that Idon't think she got a bad edit
is because all those dramaticsshe was doing, the crying and
shaking on the floor.
They said that she was cryingand shaking on the floor but
then when they replayed it I waslike no, she was literally
crying and shaking on the floor.
She was.
It was over the top, it was toomuch.
You had to do that for them toput it in there.

(04:41):
I don't know if this is theright difference.

Niq (04:44):
When Carolyn got voted out the way she was on that floor, I
was assuming if you don't- getoff that floor.

Jess (04:51):
I was full Black Mama control.
I'm supposed to vote this floor.
What is wrong?

Niq (04:55):
with you and she this is also something that I find
hilarious.
Her and something that TomSandoval had in common were like
she would get in confessional.
She's like I'm such a greatstrategist, I'm like such a
great actress, I'm like the bestever.
And Tom was also like.
He was like yeah, I knew I wasgoing to get killed because I

(05:17):
was like a leader and I was likethe best in this game.
And I'm like you guys are bothdelusional.
Like Danielle is a horribleRight.
Like Danielle is a horribleactress.
She's over the top.

Jess (05:33):
Yeah, Maybe 80 Soaps.
That would have been her niche.

Niq (05:40):
It's not Like I feel like people believed her because
they're like literally nobodycan be this pathetic and act
this pathetic, and it's like nosomebody can, and it's so
different than how Sheree no,siri, siri, siri played the game
.

Jess (05:57):
Siri is still the best traitor of all times.
She is still the GOAT.
She played it so subtly.
She steered without being heavyhanded, which you know is my
pet peeve in this particulargame is that you don't have to
be so obvious to shape andmanipulate.
Sari is still the best.

Niq (06:15):
She's the GOAT but also when they were saying that
Danielle made it longer than anyother traitor, were they just
speaking of just this season?
Because I'm like Sari made itall the way to the end, so they
must have just been talkingabout this particular season?

Jess (06:29):
Yeah, maybe this particular season.
Well, no, because technicallyBrittany outlasted her, but she
had just become a traitor.

Niq (06:35):
Right, but she only survived one banishment.
They were looking atbanishments, mm-hmm.
Okay.
So I want to talk about, like,caroline getting voted off.
So during that game, the chessgame, which I was so happy to
see, kate, even though, likethey bought Kate and they bought

(06:56):
Parvati back and they reallydidn't do much.

Jess (06:59):
No, they didn't.
They just said but give me thatall day, you know especially
Kate, love, kate, Love, kate.

Niq (07:06):
Poverty can take her, leave her.
She's not that interesting tome.
I don't really get her headbandobsession.
I don't get any of that.
But Kate, I love it and I'mlike I can't wait till next
season to see how they make itan excuse for Kate just to come
to Scotland.
And she's like you know what.
I'm going to do it every time.
But during the game is the onlytime I ever felt Danielle was

(07:31):
actually did well, was smart,was strategic, because when they
chose the answers for the gameshe did do a lot to set Carolyn
up and Carolyn did not see that.

Jess (07:44):
No, she didn't, Not that she did do a good job.
I up and Carolyn did not seethat.
No, she didn't, she did do agood job.
I agree with you, in that gameshe did a great job.

Niq (07:48):
And then, when it came to executing the game, she really
stood back and was like at thispoint I'm not going to worry
about money, I'm going to worryabout preservation.
And Carolyn was so obviousduring the game.
She's like hold on now, hold on, let's talk about Tom again.

(08:08):
I think we should talk aboutTom.
And then she kept staring themand I'm like girl, read the room
.
If the consensus does not agree, why do you keep going up
against the consensus?
And then, when she picked herown self, why would you put a
spotlight on yourself, girl,ever, ever.

Jess (08:31):
Because that's something she got to work through, because
she keeps bringing up how shefeels like nobody listens to her
.

Niq (08:36):
Okay.
So did you notice, though inthe reunion her talking was a
lot different.
It wasn't Like when she was onthe show it was like, but then,
like on the reunion, it was likeit wasn't so, like it wasn't as
over the top so my question iscan you control that?

(08:58):
Because if you can, why do youtalk like that all the time?

Jess (09:04):
I don't know.
It just seems like it wouldtake a lot of energy it's not.

Niq (09:08):
She speaks like she's in the middle of a bad acid trip
and then she's like I don't knowwhy people won't listen to me
because you sound like you'reseeing stuff as you're talking.
But the way she was in thereunion I feel like had she like
been like that on the show, shewould have won she admits that,

(09:31):
like that quirkiness or, if youwant to, you know, whatever
that is helps her because peopleunderestimate her yes, but it's
a lot too.
She's just a little bit too,it's a lot.
That's what I'm saying.
You can be quirky so thatpeople don't take you seriously,
but if you're too quirky whenyou have important things to say

(09:55):
, you're immediately dismissed.
It's just like the Bob the DragQueen thing.
Bob the Drag Queen, he was agreat leader, but he was just
too much.
If he had pulled back a little,he would have been so much more
successful on the show Danielle, yes, she was like pretty

(10:16):
successful, but she probablycould have went to the end if
she would have just calmed downsome.

Jess (10:23):
It's calm down and if she had gotten, she was loyal to the
wrong people.
That's the thing thatfrustrates me even more than her
over.
I could deal with theoveracting, because they really
weren't.
I guess they really weren'tseeing how bad it was.
But if I can deal with theoveracting, what bothered me is
her loyalty to Dylan andBrittany was her downfall.
If she had gotten rid of themtwo earlier, she would have made

(10:45):
it to the end of the game.

Niq (10:46):
But then, who should have she been loyal to in place of
Dylan and Brittany?

Jess (10:53):
I mean, she just needs to be like she was still friends
with everyone else.

Niq (10:59):
I think in her mind she was going to take them to the end
with her because they were goingto trust her no matter what.
So who would have been thosetwo people?

Jess (11:09):
Dolores.
Dolores trusted her to the end.
Dolores trusted her to the end.
I don't know.
Ivar definitely did not.
Ivar did not.
Ivar didn't, gabby didn't.
I also would have got rid ofGabby earlier if it was me, if I
had my drivers in this season.
Dolores and Tom Sandoval wouldhave went with me to the end,

(11:30):
because they're never going tofigure it out.

Niq (11:33):
But they also did not trust each other.

Jess (11:35):
That's true.
I just need you both to trustme.

Niq (11:41):
Here's the thing Everybody knew that she was going to pick
Brittany to be her traitor,which I even Brittany was like.
That's so obvious, which, ofcourse, I think is a mistake If
she wanted to pick another womanbecause because she felt like
you know, they, they, they feltlike it was a woman traitor.

(12:03):
So, just in case, let's givethem somebody.
She should have picked Gabby,she should have picked Gabby,
and then she should have killedDylan.

Jess (12:12):
She definitely should have killed Dylan.
She would have never killedDylan, and I think that's the
biggest part of her downfallBecause I don't know, I just saw
from the beginning I'm likeDylan is not going to be as
loyal to you as you are to him.
I think, Danielle, to me, herbiggest downfall is she's loyal
to people that are not loyal toher and she can't see it that
they're not going to be loyal toher, but it's obvious to me.

Niq (12:32):
Now, do you feel like Brittany was this loyal to her?
Because, if we're honest, whenBrittany got pulled in, danielle
had already she was in aterrible spot.
I feel like it.
I honestly feel like she wasgonna go home, regardless of who
she picked.
Picking Brittany did not helpher, but Brittany was trying.

(12:55):
If you think about it likeBrittany was, she was PR-ing for
her.

Jess (13:00):
Brittany didn't have to vote for her, like she still
would've went home.
You didn't have to vote for her.
She still would have went home.
You didn't have to vote for her.
I would have sat there at thatround table for as long as we
got to go.
I'm not going to flip on you,but one I feel like Dylan and
Brittany should have gotten ridof much earlier in the season.
If Danielle was thinkingstrategically, I agree, she for

(13:23):
some reason decided she wasgoing to be loyal to these two
people and was determined to beloyal to them, but I'm like it's
just not going to bereciprocated.
I know it's not going to bereciprocated.
Dolores would have went withher to the end.
I feel like there's otherpeople I'm trying to think of
that would have, but those twowere not the two and she just
got so fixated on them.

Niq (13:39):
But I want to talk about the roundtable once more, where
Brittany voted for Danielle.
Ok, so at this point Danielleis in pretty hot water and I, if
you look at it from Brittany'sperspective, she knows that
Danielle is a traitor and Ireally think if she would not

(14:05):
have voted for her, it wouldhave put even more suspicion on
her.
I just think I, I I reallythink so, because everybody, I
think I mean at that pointpeople knew danielle was a
traitor and britney had alreadyspent the day walking and doing
heavy PR for Danielle.

(14:25):
She was putting in the work andI honestly, for a second,
thought they were going to pullit off.
I really thought they weregoing to put it off.
For a second.
I thought they were going topull a switcheroo and get Ivar
out, because I'm like, oh, Ithought they were going to pull
it out in the fourth hour.
And so I can understandDanielle being upset that

(14:46):
Brittany voted for her becauseshe's like dang.
But I think at that, in thatmoment, that was what was best
for Brittany's game.
Now, did Brittany get voted outimmediately?
She did, but even if Brittanywas not a traitor, she was going
to get voted out because theywere.
I feel like they were trying toget rid of gamers because they
really didn't trust them.
Towards the end, I don't thinkI, honestly, it would be really

(15:12):
hard for a gamer to get all theway down to the end because they
they feel like the, the regularreality stars don't fully,
fully, fully trust the gamers.
Okay, I want to talk aboutBoston Rob.
He's somebody I do not enjoy.

Jess (15:31):
I did enjoy him slightly more in the reunion, well, I
enjoyed him slightly more inTraitors and the reunion than I
did in Survivor.
I could not stand him inSurvivor and I still will never
in life ever trust him Like.
I definitely agree with the.
If you see Boston Rob walkthrough the door, you vote him

(15:52):
out immediately.
I don't care what that man.
That man would sell his mamafor a two piece and a biscuit,
like why?
Why are we even playing withthis?
Yeah, I saw.
I didn't.
I never understood what otherpeople saw in Boston Rob as to
keep him around because it is soobvious he has no loyalties to
anyone but himself.
But what I did see from him inthe reunion, oh, he can be

(16:15):
charming when he wants to be.

Niq (16:17):
Yes, but he was also just being very genuine in the sense
that he was.
You said what, how he gets you?
In the sense that he was beingvery genuine.
He sense that he was.
You said what, how he gets you?
Well, in the sense that he waslike being very genuine.
He was like, well, yes, I wasgoing to murder everybody.
Yes, I was going to selleverybody out.
Yes, I always like find arookie and make and put them by

(16:38):
my side and take them to the end.
And Dylan was like.
I just was watching Dylan nodeal Island on the plane and I
saw him do that and I still cameand fell for it and I'm like
man, is he like the Pied Piperor something?
Because, yes, dylan was sodeeply in love with Austin Robb.
It was weird, did you see thathe picked him up from the

(17:02):
airport, yes, yes, yes, and thenhugged him like he was his long
lost daddy.

Jess (17:09):
Daddy, that was a very dad .
I miss you.

Niq (17:13):
It was like dad returning home from the military,
Surprising me Cool type hug.
It was Like I was just like I.

Jess (17:24):
Even though I appreciated his candidness and I agree he
was more charming on the reunion, I still it don't matter if I
see Boston Rob, if I see Wes, ifI see Tony, yes, that's it,

(17:45):
y'all going in that order.

Niq (17:47):
I agree, like I think it's to the advantage of the reality
TV stars to get rid of thegamers, like to band together to
get rid of the gamers becausethey do have a different mindset
, they do have a different codeof ethics and they are good at
that.
But they're good at see,they're good at the challenges
and stuff.
So they help to run up the potand so that's one of the

(18:11):
advantages of keeping them.
But they are literally buildingthat money for them.

Jess (18:16):
But I'm like Dylan.
Look like he's strong.
You know what I mean.
Like most of these people arein good shape.
You can do the challenges.

Niq (18:25):
When I tell you that Tom Sandoval takes himself so
seriously and no one else does.

Jess (18:30):
But I love it and people not taking him seriously does
not stop him from taking himselfso seriously and it makes me
love him even more.
I don't know what the heck hedid to all these girls in
previous things because I didn'twatch him in other shows, but
I'm like this is the TomSandoval.
I know I enjoy him.

Niq (18:50):
I didn't watch Vanderpump Rules but I'm assuming he
cheated on his girlfriend and itmust have been really
devastating His girlfriend andeverybody's girlfriend.

Jess (18:58):
That's what it sounded like.

Niq (19:00):
I'm like I don't.
I'm so, so close, so close togoing to finding out what
happened, because they, the waythat they have a, they have like
a deep vendetta against youknow, any of y'all one out one,
and I do want to admit somethingthat I did not realize until

(19:21):
watching it again that Chrishelland Gabby were two different
people.

Jess (19:25):
Chrishell is theby were two different people.
Chrishell is the one who gotthe blood vended against him and
she couldn't even play.
She could not even play becauseshe's just like okay, this
happened, this happened, thishappened.
Tom Sandoval, I'm like girl.
Did you want this money or not?

Niq (19:47):
so, while we're admitting to things, I would like to admit
that, uh, tom Sandoval and Samwere the same person who I
forgot, sam.
Sam was the one who was marriedto Britney Spears and I
remembered in the beginning ofthe show that he, he, was
married to Britney Spears.
And I remembered in thebeginning of the show that he
was married to Britney Spearsbut then I literally, somehow,

(20:07):
watching the show, forgot heexisted.
And then at the reunion he wassitting there and then I was
like, oh wait a minute, there'stwo guys there's two Tom
Sandoval's.

Jess (20:20):
I still don't remember him .
I do not remember him at all.
Did he go first?

Niq (20:26):
No, he actually lasted pretty good and was starting to
figure things out.
I think when I was like, oh man, Tom is having some good days,
that was Sam.

Jess (20:39):
No, I wasn't, Because on the reunion show I was like
Harpo.
Who this man?
Where are you on here?
I don't even remember you.

Niq (20:50):
Right and I was like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I was like I think Tom isfiguring some stuff out.
Yeah, that was Sam actuallymaking good guesses, like some
of those people.

Jess (21:06):
So we must have both been doing that.
We have blended Sam and TomSandoval into one person and we
like that person yes, we do, Ienjoy him.

Niq (21:16):
He has never cheated on me or any of my friends, so I feel
free to enjoy him me too.

Jess (21:25):
he was so funny Without trying to be funny, it was just
so much entertainment.
And then watching Alan Cumminglaugh at Tom Sandoval is a whole
nother thing.

Niq (21:36):
Here's the doll episode Once again, when they showed the
clip at the reunion and the waythat you can see Alan laughing
for real laughing for reallaughing Like that is the funny.
And I wonder when Tom watchedthat episode, what did he see?

Jess (21:57):
and hear Nothing shakes his confidence.
Nothing, Absolutely nothing.
What is his name?
Alan Cumming did an interview.
I haven't seen the wholeinterview, but the little clip
that I saw was him saying thatthere would be times where he
would just hear in his earpiecefix your face.

Niq (22:18):
I saw that too.
The funny thing is he wastalking about the choices that
people were making as he'swalking around and I knew that
they were like revealing in aparticular way, like they knew
what the votes were and wererevealing them in a particular
way.
But I just think that it'shilarious that Alan Cummings is
like these people are idiots,like come on now, like you don't

(22:41):
see what's going on.
I think that that is hilarious.
So the show has had threeseasons.
The first season was a mixbetween reality and regulars,
and then two and three were alllike reality TV people.
If there is a season four, doyou think they should go back to

(23:02):
all regular people?

Jess (23:06):
I don't know.
I actually want what yousuggested last time.
I want two separate shows.
I want celebrity traders andregular people traders.
I want two separate showsBecause I'm really enjoying the
UK version of Traders with allregular people.
It is good for differentreasons.

(23:29):
Yeah, they come about theirguesses in different ways and
even their strategic moves theymake in different ways, but it's
really interesting and so I dowant to see regular people do
this.
But the mix they cannot handlethe cutthroatness that reality
stars are capable of.
But I need that because all thepomp and circumstance, the

(23:51):
drama, the outfits adds to theUS and I still I need all of
that to exist.

Niq (23:59):
I, yes, but I think that season four they need to do
something to revamp thingsthough.
Ok, so I don't, I'm trying to.
That's why I said, well, maybethey need to do a season of
regular folks.
You know also like, did youfeel like this?
Like this season, the finalmission was too easy them

(24:23):
dropping the thing in the ringof fire.
Yes, it seemed relatively easy.
If you think about the last,the final missions are usually
overly convoluted.
This one was like they werejogging through the woods and
then they hopped in some carsand then they had to swing from
a helicopter.
I'm like it feels a little easy.

(24:46):
You know, like it to me Itrader has always had like their
missions have always been likementally and physically, like on
the tougher end.
I feel like, compared to a lotof like shows like that I've
seen currently yeah, I haven'tbeen watching like survivor and

(25:07):
big brother and stuff like thatfor years, but I, when I watched
like the first season oftraders and then I was watching
like the UK versions and stufflike that, I'm like, oh, these,
these missions are serious.
Like you got to carry.
They're like, oh, you want tocarry a stone statue up a hill
through a river, like you knowwhat I'm saying.
Like it's really like tough.
But I'm like this, that lastmission, I'm like I just didn't

(25:30):
feel like they put their heartin it.
You let it get tight.
I think that they are like I'mlike y'all, nothing blew up,
like I'm just like they can,they can do a little, they can
do a little better.
I.
I did enjoy the backwards dollmission.
You know I enjoyed most of themissions, like that bug wedding

(25:56):
mission.
It was great TV to watch, greatTV.
Thank you, thankful that I wasnot there.

Jess (26:03):
And the outfits.
That's what the reality TVstars you're going to get the
outfits too, and I love them, Ilove them.
I'm still not over MJ's wholewardrobe from last season, but
yeah, I enjoyed the outfits forpeople too.
The bug wedding, I think.
Sierra thinks she married toBoston Rob for real, I'm not
sure.

Niq (26:24):
I feel like Ellen put that in her head, though, although
she was like she's like Boston,rob being daddy, she's like,
that's crazy.

Jess (26:33):
You know.

Niq (26:34):
But also it seems like all of them really keep up together.
Maybe they really are bondedfor life, because everyone's
like, yeah, I was just with them, I was just talking to them on
the phone.
I'm like really.

Jess (26:44):
Yeah.

Niq (26:47):
I'm like, really, yeah, I'm like I've been.
I just want them to.
First season got that, gethousewives that I know Because,
like I said, I want them tobring housewives on the show
that I actually know, like thislast season I didn't know any of
those women.
I didn't know any of thosehousewives either.
Ion I didn't know Ion and notbecause I watched her show, but

(27:10):
she has a lot of like.
I feel like they have a lot ofclips on TikTok because she has
like a lot of one liners whichshe said that she is really
funny, and I'm like, oh yeah, Ican see that because I've seen
your clips on TikTok and I don'tknow anybody else that's on
your show yeah, no, she seemslike she's really funny.

Jess (27:25):
so, yeah, I have seen her before.
Else, that's on your show.
Yeah, no, she seems like she'sreally funny.
Yeah, I have seen her before.
But that's not their fault,that's our fault.
We stopped watching Housewivesyears ago.
We were like they would have toget Nene and I don't think Nene
coming out of retirement fornobody.

Niq (27:40):
Well, but they were like Dorinda's.
Like Bob said, he doesn't knowwho I am and I'm like ma'am for
a million dollars.
I could not tell you whichHousewife franchise you were
even on.
No, I also don't know you Like.
I don't you know.
She didn't say that personally,she did.

Jess (28:00):
He also did not have to say it, but like he didn't, but
I don't know who you are either,but I don't know who you are
either.
I don't know who you arebecause I stopped watching
Housewives like 10 years ago, solike I'm not going to, you know
what I mean.
I'm like hey, likerealistically for them to get
Housewives, we know.
Do you know how far back theygot to go?

Niq (28:17):
You know what the funny thing is Like, tangentially, I
still know who's on Housewivesof Atlanta.
I know, because it's Nene andPortia, right, yeah, but I think
they're bringing a lot ofpeople back because you remember
they had Kim Fields on there,they had Eva the Diva on there,

(28:38):
I know.

Jess (28:39):
I love Kim Fields.
I didn't know she was on there.

Niq (28:42):
Yeah, but I think she only lasted one season because she
really wasn't trying to interactthey.
They were like she would comeand shoot like 15 minutes and be
like, okay, I'm going home.
So, yes, no, I don't keep up.

Jess (28:58):
So like that's not really their fault.
They like.
I feel like we lost touch withthat franchise we did.

Niq (29:04):
Maybe the people that they're bringing on.
It's not that I don't know them, that they're not interesting,
because I had never heard ofKate before she was on.
Like, yeah, I didn't know Kateeither, but I love Kate.
She was on a show called BelowDeck.
I don't even know what that is,girl.
I don't know, is that a spinoffof Vanderpump?
I have no idea.
But but guess what?
At the end of that season, Ididn't even like Kate.

Jess (29:28):
I didn't like her either at the beginning, but by the end
of the season I really enjoyedKate.
It's more so than we actuallyknow them, because I just feel
like that's an unrealistic askfor people, but just ones with
personalities that areinteresting.

Niq (29:41):
I think that's true Because , honestly, dorinda Robin, I
Dorinda Robin, I liked Doris.
I didn't like Robin.
I didn't feel like she had apersonality, like I don't, did
Robin go early?
See, you don't even remember,and I don't either.

Jess (30:00):
No, because I like okay.
So, robin, that's not true.
I am familiar with her too.
What show is she on, ma'am?
You know?
I don't know, but I've seen herin the guys of the world, I
don't know.
So I feel like she didn't gether.
I feel like they got rid of herearly for some reason, because
I feel like she does have apersonality and she doesn't play

(30:21):
.
But it's almost like one ofthose things.
She just said something verymatter of fact and they tried to
make.
I don't even know if Aravena'sBlack, I think she's Black but
they tried to angry Black womanher, and she literally just said
something, just straight, andhe was like well, why are you
getting so defensive?
And they went along that linewith her.

(30:42):
So I really feel like they kindof pushed her out before she
got a chance to really getwarmed up.

Niq (30:47):
If she's a housewife, she's got to be on Potomac, because
Potomac is they all kind ofbeige, you know.
So I'm thinking maybe sheshould be on Potomac I don't,
because I can't remember who didit.

Jess (31:02):
It was a white man and I just remember the way he was
talking to her did not fit theway that she was actually
talking.
She has a commanding voice, butshe was not angry, she was not
upset, she was just like no, Idisagree with you.
Why are you getting sodefensive?

Niq (31:15):
And I'm just like sir, I literally don't remember that,
because I don't remember her.
I don't remember her havingcontributing to the
entertainment of the season.
Honestly, none of thehousewives this season did.
Yeah, dolores made it to theend, but I don't feel like she
was particularly likeentertaining.

Jess (31:35):
No, but my point like she was, robin was very like into
the investigating, trying tofigure out who the traitors were
, so like the wheels wereturning with her and they to me.
Like I said, angry black womento her and use that as an excuse
to get her out.
But she does.
I think she does have thepotential to go there and be
entertaining and she'll gotoe-to-toe with anyone.

(31:56):
I just don't feel like she gother the chance.

Niq (31:59):
That's my point.
What I found was interestingwas, at the reunion, how many
people I forgot were ever on theshow.

Jess (32:06):
Girl.

Niq (32:07):
Like there was.

Jess (32:08):
Was that second season?
Which season, robin?
She wasn't on this season, shewas on second season.

Niq (32:16):
No, she was.
She was on this season, she wasSecond season was Phaedra and
Sheree.
Okay, there might have beenanother housewife.
Oh yeah, and the one that usedto date Michael Jordan's son,
scottie Pippen's ex-wife, larsa.
There it is, I got thereeventually.

Jess (32:33):
She could have gone as soon as possible.
I would have been fine withthat.

Niq (32:36):
But at least I knew who she was and knew stuff about her.
I don't know her by face.

Jess (32:47):
I know her because people were referencing her to Scottie
Pippen and Michael Jordan, whichI also don't recognize, but I
wasn't sad when either of themleft.

Niq (32:54):
I wasn't sad, but at least I knew who she was and I had
seen her.
I think when she was on, maybe,real Housewives of Miami maybe
has there been a Real Housewivesof Chicago.
I think it was Real Housewives.
I don't think so.
I think she was on RealHousewives of Miami when she was
still married to Scottie Pippen.

Jess (33:12):
I don't know.
Now I think we're making upReal Housewives.

Niq (33:16):
No, there was a Miami one.
I think she was on the Miamione.
I knew who Larsa was.
These women.
When Dorinda said that shecalled Andy and cried because
she got voted out, I'm like,well, how well do you know him?
I really don't know who she isit does seem like.

Jess (33:38):
Andy, knowing the housewives really well, I think
they have real relationshipsgenuine friendships.

Niq (33:47):
I think that he may be the number one Housewives fan.
Right, right, I think Andy isthe homie for them.
I really think so.
I was like that's really cute.
You got Andy's phone number.
Oh, so you really are like aHousewife.
I don't know who she is, I justdon't.
I don't.
But okay's, let's figure outwhat they can do to make next

(34:13):
season like interesting anddifferent.
What did you think about theseer power?
I didn't like it.
I didn't either.

Jess (34:23):
I did not like it.
It felt unnecessary.
Yeah, it didn't either, I didnot like it.

Niq (34:27):
It felt unnecessary.
Yeah, it didn't help anything.
It really didn't bring anydrama.
It was so it was bought out sofar At the end.
I think if they wanted to dothat, it should have been at the
midway point, when there weremore people, and I also, I don't

(34:49):
know, I don't know the seniorthing did not hit and I
understand, like I think thesenior is a werewolf.
I think it's an actual part ofwerewolf.
I think this show, I mean thegame Werewolf, but I just don't
think that it was executed well.
I don't think it was needed inthe season.

(35:12):
I don't think it changedanything.

Jess (35:14):
No, I also feel like and I don't know if this is part of
making the show better, but Idon't like to keep adding
traitors.
You know what I mean, eventhough I always go for the
traders and I want the tradersto win.
But at some point I'm like,well, if they didn't get out
three traders and you stilladded people, you know.

Niq (35:32):
Well, I mean, I think that's just part of the game,
Like there has to be a certainamount of traders up until a
certain point.

Jess (35:39):
But I feel like that's not fair to the faithfuls, because
if their goal is to get thetraitors out and then, when you
get a significant amount of themout, you add somebody back in,
then I don't feel like that'sfair to them.

Niq (35:51):
Who said the game was fair for the faithful.

Jess (35:54):
I mean, it's already set up against the faithful, so do
you need to make it even moreset up against you know what I
mean.

Niq (35:59):
Yes, because let's say they vote like we start the game
with three traitors.
Let's say, by some miraculoussituation they vote out three
traitors at the beginning.
What are we going to do for therest of the season?
The game's over.

Jess (36:14):
They won.
That's supposed to be the goal.

Niq (36:18):
This is still a TV show.
They got episodes that have tohappen.

Jess (36:23):
When they added Brittany in that was what the name had
gone through so many rounds likeshe could have finished that
out but like okay, so thinkabout this like there were times
when they could have added atraitor, and I think they didn't
.

Niq (36:36):
But you have to have so, and that's why, when he I think
that's why at that point he waslike no, you have to add a
traitor because you have to havea certain amount in order for
the show to continue.
I don't know, I just feel likethat's unfair, like I feel like
if they would have added atraitor earlier, they wouldn't

(36:56):
have had to do the ultimatum atthe end with Brittany.
Or even if Carolyn had notgotten voted out, they wouldn't
have had to bring Brittany in.
But you have to have a certainamount of traitors, or there,
literally, is not a show.

Jess (37:13):
But if they're going to get out traitors and they've
gotten them all out, but you'rejust going to add more, there's
no way for them to win.
Almost Literally four fs wonthis season.
How many times are you going toadd more traders in?

Niq (37:31):
but they are aware that traders can be recruited.
So then you have like the nameof the game is figure it out, so
them being able to recruittraders, like it adds to the
game.

Jess (37:44):
I feel like at a certain point that needs to stop,
because remember Alan- told herhey, at this point, traitors, it
adds to the game, I feel likeat a certain point that needs to
stop At a certain point in thegame.

Niq (37:49):
It does because, remember, alan told her hey, at this point
this is the last time thatsomeone can be added.
But yeah, I think it adds moredrama to the end because
typically four faithfuls winningdoesn't typically roll like
that.
And I was very surprisedbecause I definitely thought
that ivar and dolores were goingto get banished in the circle

(38:13):
of truth or ring of fire,whatever it's called, like I.
I really thought that they weregoing to bounce ivar and
dolores because they both hadquestions about all of them, and
then Danielle or Brittany no,Brittany at the end really like
had Dylan looking bad, you know.

Jess (38:30):
So I was very surprised that all four of them I don't
understand what magic or powerDylan has over them people,
because, while I know he was afaithful the whole time, still
she made a good case she did.
I know he was a faithful thewhole time.

Niq (38:48):
Still, she made a good case she did.
There was a certain amount ofinfantilizing going on.
Yes, do you remember when MarkZuckerberg spoke in front of
Congress and they were like, oh,talking about him, he was just
this young man and he was like35 and a father like you know

(39:11):
what I mean?
And they were talking about himas if he was 16, 17, 18 years
old.
So like he was beinginfantilized and that's why like
people were like, oh no, itcan't be him, which is why
danielle should have, danielleshould have gotten him, or Gabby
, and then, whichever one shedid not choose as a traitor, she

(39:31):
should have killed the otherone, because they were both like
sweet American pie.

Jess (39:37):
yeah, well, dylan had already turned down being a
traitor earlier, so I feel likeDylan needed to die.

Niq (39:43):
I mean I wouldn't I sure, but in that ultimatum do you
think he would have chosen todie?
I mean I wouldn't Sure, but inthat ultimatum do you think he
would have chosen to die?
If she would have did theultimatum, I don't care, I just
he need to go.
I would have.
Also, I would have chosen Gabbyover Dylan, but you know it

(40:04):
should have never been Brittany.
No, it should never have beenBrittany like you didn't have a
lick back with Brittany.
I feel like she was trying tobe a producer and she was trying
to create, like the storylineof them getting back together
and being friends again, andlike she lost sight of the game

(40:26):
she was actually playing.
I'm like you're not theproducer, sweetie.
They don't need you to helpcreate storylines.
You are supposed to be tryingto win this game and you're
doing everything else everythingelse okay.

Jess (40:39):
So then going to the reunion.
Brittany clearly which, againbefore she even said this, this
is obvious to me Brittany doesnot feel as close to you as you
feel to her.

Niq (40:48):
Brittany said in the game.

Jess (40:49):
she was like we spent three hours together before
Reindeer Games and I'm like, andyou acting like this is your
best friend.

Niq (40:57):
You know, it's something like I said, like something
about being like on TV together,Like these people bond, have
like these deep bonds that Ijust don't feel like are based
In reality and I just don'tunderstand.

Jess (41:10):
But it's like some of them understand that and some of
them don't.
And Danielle's a gamer.

Niq (41:14):
She is, she is, but she's not the gamer that she thinks
that she is.
Once again, she's sitting inConfessionals, I think, 20 steps
ahead, and I'm a strategist and, oh my god, I'm an award
winning actress.
The way I'm playing thesepeople.
She's not, though she's, she'snot.
They are like they.

(41:35):
They are not voting for her andthey can't see her because they
just think so little of herbecause she's around their
castle, acting dumb and actingcrazy, like rolling around on
the floor screaming and crying,and they're like this woman is a
mental patient, she can'tpossibly be a traitor.
The same way, they're likecarol carolyn acts like she's on

(41:56):
shrooms.
She could never be a traitor.
You know what I'm saying, andso in yes, did it work for
danielle and it didn work forCarolyn?
To a certain point it did.
But acting like that is nevergoing to get you the win, which
is what you want.
You want the win, and actinglike a nut is not going to get

(42:17):
you the win.
Yeah.

Jess (42:19):
I mean it worked for Gabby as a faithful, but it's not
going to work for you as atraitor but Gabby doesn't act a
nut.

Niq (42:25):
She's airheaded, she's legally blonde, she's smart, but
she has that airheaded affect,but she does never come across
as crazy.

Jess (42:40):
No, she didn't.

Niq (42:41):
Carolyn and Danielle both came across as having mental
health issues and that's thedifference.
Like when I saw I'm still mad.
Every time I think aboutDanielle laying on like on that
floor.

Jess (42:56):
I think she's like I'm not sticking on that floor, she
can't even watch it At thereunion, whenever we played it
she was like I'm like.
Yes, it was hard for us too.

Niq (43:04):
Oh, I get so angry Like, come on, man, Like you're doing
too much, entirely too much.
I'm also laughing at the factthat Brittany was like, yeah,
dolores looked at me and thenlooked at Danielle and Dolores
was like you definitely madethat up and then like it was on

(43:25):
the camera.
And Bob is like you saw herlooking somewhere.
You don't know where she waslooking.
She could have been lookinganywhere, because Dolores did
not even vote for Danielle.
She sure didn't when Brittany.
I think Brittany just wanted tovote for Danielle.
She sure didn't when Brittany.

Jess (43:43):
I think Brittany just wanted to vote for Danielle.
She didn't, and that's one ofthe excuses that she be making.
I'm like nobody believes it,like I don't believe any of that
, that it was hard for you, thatit was any of that stuff.
I'm like you can keep that.
You can keep that for me.
I knew from day one if you hadthe opportunity, you were going
to betray Danielle again.
I don't know how Danielledidn't know that.

Niq (44:05):
Because Danielle was too busy trying to be a producer and
trying to produce a storylineand instead of playing the game,
she was trying to be an actress.

Jess (44:14):
Give her her soap opera.
That's what she wanted to do.

Niq (44:22):
So Give her her soap opera.
That's what she wanted to do.
So I I've watched the, I'vewatched the whole season and
although there were somebreakout moments, yeah, this
season was not as good.

Jess (44:32):
No, it's hard to top the first season of any show Like
this, but like that, firstseason is still the best.

Niq (44:40):
Absolutely, but second season was still very good.

Jess (44:44):
It was good.
You know I don't care for thewinners of the second season,
but the show was good.

Niq (44:50):
It was good.
I like it.
I had clear villains and I hadclear like people that I could
root for and this season it wasvery, was it?
I don't know if it was acasting thing.

Jess (45:11):
Was it just not well casted, I guess?
I guess I think I just wasn't.
I was expecting more fromcertain people, Like I was
expecting Bob the Drag Queen tolast longer than they did.
I was expecting more fromDanielle, but I didn't really
see her in her shows that shewas on.

Niq (45:28):
I didn't see her either, but she came in talking about
how she was one of the best toever do it, and I feel like
Derek said the same thing abouther.
She has this reputation.
That's very good.
Maybe she just didn't like thegame.
Same thing about her, like shehas this reputation, that's very
good.
Maybe she just didn't like thegame.

Jess (45:43):
This was not her game.
Maybe she did better in BigBrother.
See, I think, like the peoplethat I wanted to root for, I
expected more and I did not getthat.
Yeah, and then the other people.
There was so few people to rootfor.

Niq (45:57):
You know what?
I think that they should do avillains season.
I think that they should fillthe house with some of the worst
reality TV people they can findLike the least trustful, the
slimiest.
Like literally, if we're goingto get in the muck in the, if

(46:19):
we're gonna get in the muck inthe mud, let's get in the muck
in the mud.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I, I think we, they haveto do something.
Yeah, because the show isstarting to get stale and the
other countries are not gettingstale as fast.
No, they're not.
No, they're not.
So I think that they reallyneed who do I want to see?

(46:42):
I want to see Tiffany PollardOmarosa.
Yes, I do.
I'm trying to think who else islike the worst, but it makes
good TV.

(47:06):
Housewives you know Kim Zolzie.
She's a terrible person and sheis in desperate need of money.
She is in desperate need ofmoney.
She is in desperate need ofmoney.

Jess (47:22):
So yeah, put Kim on there.
I'm joking, we'll throw it outthere.

Niq (47:28):
Kim Solzhenitsyn, though.

Jess (47:29):
That would make for good TV though I just don't feel like
Nene would do it.

Niq (47:35):
I want to see.
Oh, what's the one of theJersey house?
Is her name Teresa, or whichone is?
Like she either went to prisonor her and her husband went to
prison.
Like I want to see one of them.
Like I want to.
Yeah, I want to see.
I want to see one of them likeI want to.
I want to see the worst of theworst, because I want.

(47:58):
What do you do in the house?
How do you form alliances whenyou know you can't trust anyone?
Is he still alive?
That was like the firstSurvivor winner, I think.
I don't know if he's stillalive.
That's what I'm saying Gothrough, go through Survivor

(48:19):
Like.
Go and find, like the peoplewho have broken people's hearts
and backstabbed people.

Jess (48:27):
You know.

Niq (48:27):
That's like like put someone in the house where
everybody knows that like youcan't trust anybody, you can't
trust anybody, and then let'ssee how that goes.

Jess (48:37):
That would be interesting.
Mm-hmm, let's see how that goes.
That would be interesting.
So just you know, a house fullof Boston.

Niq (48:41):
Rob's right and that seer thing.
Let's never see that again,unless they're going to do it
differently.
I don't know.
I just don't think it wasneeded.
I don't think it added anythingtwist at all.
I want to see the missions goup a notch, not down.
That last mission was reallybland compared to the past.

(49:08):
I want to see them do somestuff, because you know who has
good missions.
I don't know if you've everwatched this show, the Mole.
The Mole has some good missions.
I don't know if you've everwatched this show like the Mole.
The Mole has some good missions, but I will check it out.
It's good.
It's good.
I've watched a few seasons ofthat.
So they need to look at theMole and get some mission ideas.

(49:30):
I want to see them doing somestuff, because the fact that the
missions have always been waytougher than you would expect I
really really like that.
And they got to bring Kate likethe missions have always been
like way tougher than you wouldexpect I really really like that
.
Oh, and they gotta bring kateback kate is your favorite
person, yes, and even though sheI don't consider her a villain,
I feel like she could hold herown in a house full of villains

(49:53):
she can hold her own anywhere.

Jess (49:54):
She just she has a big.
It's enjoyable.
I want more people like that.

Niq (50:00):
Yes, yes, I want to see tougher missions.
I want to see a house full ofvillains.
I don't know.
I think House of Villains is adifferent show.
I've never seen it, but I'mpretty sure House of Villains is
another show.
But I don pretty sure House ofVillains is another show, but I
don't really know what thepremise is.

(50:21):
I also think that they need tofind a way to penalize people
for voting out people who theyknow are faithful but they just
don't like.
Why?
Because I just think that itchanges the nature of the game
and it's like you're not reallylooking for faithfuls.
You're trying to find a groupthat you can make it to the end

(50:43):
with you know, I don't knowabout that.

Jess (50:46):
I don't agree with that, because there's a few people who
I'm like it does not matter,and I feel like there are times
in the game where it doesn'tmatter whether you are a traitor
or faith or not.
You just need to.
I feel like that with Wes.
I feel like Wes is makingpeople uncomfortable While we're
talking about a house full ofvillains.
I don't want to feel unsafe.
Go, you need to go.

(51:06):
You know what I mean.
And then there was, oh goodness, I don't even mind, I've been a
US season, but I feel like theyhad another situation like that
where this person is just whatwere they saying?
They were like they're badfaithful, so like, yes, I've
heard the bad faithful.
Because I'm like it does get toa point where it's like I don't
care if you're a villain or not.
You're either messing up themissions or you're not helping.

(51:29):
You know what I meanSignificantly Like it's like,
even though, as much as we loveKate, kate stopped playing for
like three games, three missions.
She did.
If you vote that person outbecause they're bad faithful,
I'm fine with that too.

Niq (51:43):
I wish that there was some kind of way I feel like the
clickiness.

Jess (51:49):
But I think that's the interesting thing.
I was talking about thisearlier today.
You get to see, in all thesegames, really, people's biases
come out so strong.
Oh, it does, they come out sostrong.
That's Like you get to see, inall these games, really,
people's biases come out sostrong.
Oh, it does they come out sostrong.
That's how, like you know, youget to where it's like okay, all
the Black women are not angry.
You know they're not giving youattitude, they're talking to
you normal and you're stillputting all this other stuff on

(52:11):
them.
People form their groups.
They vote people out based onwhether or not they like them.
Okay, so I'm watching seasontwo Traders in the UK and
there's the redheaded lady whocannot stand.
Anthony.
Anthony is faithful.
He's so faithful.
I'm like you, just don't likehim.

(52:32):
All the evidence that you'regiving is you don't like his
personality.
It has nothing to do with himbeing a traitor.

Niq (52:39):
I feel like that's how it was with Tom Sandoval Chrishell
and a lot of the Bambis.
They didn't really think thathe was a traitor, but they just
did not like him.

Jess (52:50):
So much so it messed up their own game.
That's still interesting,though.

Niq (52:54):
Okay, maybe not a penalty, but I do feel they we need to do
some revamping.
We need to, we need to do somesomething to raise the stakes.
I don't know if we need tomaybe offer more money I would
love more money um, or if welike, maybe limit the number of
people who can get to the end,and maybe it could be no more

(53:16):
than three people.
I feel like it was too manypeople at the end, so maybe, I
don't know, it didn't bother me.

Jess (53:24):
The four people at the end didn't bother me because it and
that's maybe just a littleleftover from last season I was
so pissed off at Trishel and Idon't know the guy that she was
with who kicked off MJ for noreason.

Niq (53:37):
I'm going to say Craig, but I don't think his name is Craig
.

Jess (53:41):
We'll call him Craig now Trishel and Craig got on my
nerves and I'm like that messwas just trifling.

Niq (53:48):
The reason why it got on your nerves and the reason why
MJ is so mad, because they, 100%without a shadow of a doubt,
knew that MJ was a faithful andthey voted her out just to have
the money to split between thetwo of them.

Jess (54:04):
And she's brown, and that felt very targeted well, and it
always does with Trishel and italways will.
You know, I was mad.
I already didn't care for her,like I think I did see whatever
show Trishel was on, but it'sbeen so many years she was in
the real world back in the daywhen we used to watch the real

(54:27):
world so I'm like I'm vaguelyfamiliar with her.
I'm sure I watched whatever shewas on in detail, but it's just
been a long time and I'm like Igot that feeling from her the
first time I saw this chick onTV.
And so then I don't like theway she got Peppermint out,
because I feel like she does.
What a lot of us deal with atwork is that she sets up a

(54:47):
situation with a black woman andthen plays the victim, and
that's what she did withPeppermint and that pissed me
off so much.
And so then to see you do thisagain at the end with MJ right.

Niq (54:58):
I 100% felt like Peppermint I'm saying, but still a
personal comment I really feelhonestly, like I really feel
like Peppermint being voted offwas people's biases showing.
Like I really 100% felt likeshe.
They voted for her because shewas more different than them
actually thinking that she was atraitor.

(55:19):
Now did she come out and sayI'm a traitor?
She did, and I'm sorry.

Jess (55:27):
I feel like a lot of this was she was a Black woman,
confident, and that's whatpissed off Trishel because she
was just talking about oh, ifI'm going to kill you, anything
is going to be with looks.
And then Trishel, because shewas just talking about oh, if
I'm going to kill you, anythingis going to be with looks.
And then Trishel immediatelygot triggered and then
immediately set up a situationto get her out, intentionally,
and everybody else went alongwith it, because you know that's

(55:48):
what they do.

Niq (55:50):
Right, they jump on that, but it's so easy because I feel
like other people get thebenefit of the doubt.
You know what I mean.

Jess (56:00):
But she was never going to be given the benefit of the
doubt yeah, so yeah, and thenshe slipped up, but I'm like I
can still see she was flusteredbut that's what I'm saying.

Niq (56:07):
If somebody else would have said that and they would have
been like, oh my god, I'mflustered like they would have
been given the benefit of thedoubt, because do you remember,
like I think it was season onewhen Kate and somebody were
writing down who they thoughtwere traitors, and then they
dropped the list you know whatI'm saying and like she was able

(56:28):
to explain herself, like shewas given the benefit of the
doubt.
You know, like, and so I reallylike Peppermint was never gonna
, she was never gonna get thebenefit of the doubt.
So, like I'm like, at theendint was never going to, she
was never going to get thebenefit of the doubt.
Yeah, so, yeah, I can't.

Jess (56:40):
So, like I'm like at the end with the season was
enjoyable to watch, but Watchingum to show when Was never going
to be fun, and why.
You know how many times you go.
Send one person Sensitivitytraining, you know like they not
gonna get more Sensitive, so um, okay, so what do you Think
they could do next season?

Niq (56:59):
What would you like to see?

Jess (57:02):
I would like to see yeah, a lot of the same things Bigger,
more interested personalities.
I would like to see toughermissions as well.
Yeah, the seer thing needs todie.
I'm not, I don't know that thisis something that they can rule
, but I would like to see thetraitors stick together longer.

Niq (57:28):
This season I honestly blame.
I would like to blame BostonRob.
I've never seen traitors fallapart so fast, but I feel like
Boston Rob bought that culturein and they did not know how to
recover from it.

Jess (57:42):
I don't even know, and this pains me to say, I don't
know if I even blame Boss andRob, and that's hard for me to
say out my mouth.
But like one, like I don't, Iwould have responded to what Bob
the Drag Queen said the sameway, because there was no need
for him to say that.

Niq (57:57):
But Bob the Drag Queen, said the same way because there
was no need for him to say that.
Everybody was saying how at thereunion, how it wasn't as
impactful.

Jess (58:04):
And I don't think that he meant it the way it came across.
I don't think that he meant it,but I still I'm not going to
play with you in that situation.
I'm not going to play with you.
They were a mess, I think,before Bostorov came in.

Niq (58:17):
Yes, they were, they were not getting along.
But I don't even think like thebackstabbing each other, they
had not gotten it Like.
They were like keep the turretproblems in the turret at that
point.
But once Boston Rob fired onBob the Drag Queen, then it
became less.
We can solve turret problemsoutside of the tour, and so

(58:39):
that's why I said that BostonRob like, bought in the the
culture of like.
If you got a problem with me asa trader, instead of us figuring
it out and hashing it out inthe turret, then I'm going to
take shots with you out on yououtside of the turret, which
it's not that it had never like,it had never.
They, the relationships betweentraders, had never broken down
that fast, that fast.

(59:01):
You know what I'm saying and Idon't know.
I like it when the traitorsstick together for the beginning
of the game.
Yes, at some point in the gameyou have to play an individual
game, but what makes the showfun is in the beginning, is them
working together, plottingtogether and picking people off

(59:21):
like.
That's interesting and it's fun.
And so, yeah, I hate that theylost that this season.
Right, I would have loved tohave seen the season play out
differently, because there wereplenty of people who, who could
have been murdered and we would,like I.
There are so many people like I.
I said when I watched thereunion I was like I don't

(59:42):
remember you.
I definitely don't remember you.
You probably had one line thatwas semi-interesting, and so I
think it would have been so muchmore fun to see the traders get
along and plot and plan,because I'm enjoying the other
seasons like the other countries.

Jess (01:00:00):
Now season two, right of the UK traders.
I'm enjoying more than seasonone, I think.
So far, really yeah, so far, Ithink I am.

Niq (01:00:11):
The traders are very deliberate.

Jess (01:00:12):
I like their decision-making process, with
the exception of getting rid ofKira.
I didn't like that.
I did not like that.
But outside of that, I do likehow they're thinking through the
game.

Niq (01:00:28):
Well, but see, they have the benefit of being the second
season.
The first season was the firstseason of all the traitor shows,
you know, and so I think that'swhat.
So the US version wasn't thefirst, no, the UK version was
the first traitor.

Jess (01:00:44):
Okay, Because I'm like Serene just came in and
dominated.
She did.
She still is the best of thebest of all of them.

Niq (01:00:53):
She did, she did and that season was so good, it was so
engaging.
Okay, I wanted to ask, as faras things that they should
change next season, how do youfeel about a location change?
What if they don't do it inScotland in the castle?

Jess (01:01:12):
I don't know, I don't know if I can handle that.

Niq (01:01:15):
Is it traders?
If it's not at the castle inScotland, I don't know they don
not at the castle in Scotland.
I mean, they don't use thecastle in Scotland in any other
one but the US and UK.

Jess (01:01:25):
I haven't watched any.
I've only watched the US and UK.

Niq (01:01:30):
I'm pretty sure in Canada they're not using the castle and
in Australia they're definitelynot using the castle.

Jess (01:01:35):
Right now I'm probably not gonna watch camp, but I will
watch so, yeah, like it.

Niq (01:01:47):
How do you?
I don't.
I'm like and I thought I waslike, I'm like, why isn't they
like the castle?
Like they use the castle forthe us version because I have to
fly all of these people over toscotland, but also I I think
the weather is a paid actor inthe show, most definitely.

Jess (01:02:03):
And you get overtime.

Niq (01:02:06):
It does, it does, and I'm like you know.
The funny thing is you can findanything in the US.
You can find the same landscapeas Scotland, and you can find
the same weather.
I don't know if you can findthem together, though.
Yeah, the crazy rain, they canfind that in Seattle and then
the rolling hills and mountainsand stuff.

(01:02:27):
There's so many places inAmerica where you can find that.
I don't know if you can find itall together, though.

Jess (01:02:32):
We don't need to be in America.

Niq (01:02:36):
But I mean, they keep flying Kate over for one day and
I think that's so funny and aslong as Kate willing to go, I'm
willing to watch her.
I am too.
I'm praying that she's on nextseason because they're doing
like villains and even though Idon't think she's a villain, I
think she would fit in with thevillain cast are they doing?
villains or is that just a no?
I made that up.
I'm manifesting now you'retalking about, like it's already

(01:02:57):
happened.
I'm manifesting Now you'retalking about it like it's
already happened.
I'm manifesting, yeah,traitor's Worst of.
I don't think they can call itVillains because of that other
villain show, but I think theyshould call it Traitor's Worst
of the Worst.
Okay, we'll send that idea upthe flagpole and see if they.
I'm going to blue sky, alan.

(01:03:17):
If he's on blue sky, I'm goingto blue sky, alan.
If he's on blue sky, I'm goingto blue sky, alan.
It's going to happen.
This is the thing.
The first season, the castingwon an Emmy.
I'm like did y'all fire thosepeople?
Where are those people at?
They honestly casted so well.

(01:03:38):
It created emotional damage.
Emotional damage, like maybethey were like, hey, good job on
the Emmy, but we're stillpaying therapy bills from season
one.
So let's calm it down.
Let's calm it down.

Jess (01:03:59):
I don't think I'm fully opposed to the mix either,
though, because one thing thatthey did get is they got people.
Some of the regular people werepeople with social media
presence.
You got some kind of you know,because I knew him before the
show.

Niq (01:04:15):
I knew him before I watched the show, but I did not watch
the show when it first came out.
Oh, that's true.
So I don't know what came first, but yeah, I was seeing Quentin
on my FYP and then when I sawhim on Traders I was like that's
Quentin I know On TV, my cousinin my mind, right, you know.

(01:04:37):
So I don't know, but I don'tthink that he, like he was fine
after the show.

Jess (01:04:44):
I do too Like I'm like, but you need.
You can't come off the streetas like a you know working at
CVS, and then go to Traders.
No, you got to have something.

Niq (01:04:54):
The funny thing is the one I'm watching in Australia like
of the traders is a woman who isa cashier at a supermarket and
she's okay, but the otherversions it's all regular people
it is, so they're okay.

Jess (01:05:08):
If we're doing all regular things, yes, absolutely Like a
CVS, most definitely, but it'sthe mix of the gamers and the
regular people that can't handleit.
So maybe you've been somebodywho may be not as famous but has
a strong social media presence,something where you've been on
the camera in front of peoplebefore you know you've had to
deal with some ups and downs.

Niq (01:05:28):
Well, I think so.
For example, when I waswatching the Mole on Netflix,
the person who they actuallychose to be the Mole, he was
like an undercover cop in reallife.
And so I think it's more like,if you have like, they need to
find people who have strategicminds because, like the reality

(01:05:49):
TV people, because they're usedto like being on TV, they
understand that like TV is notreal, and then the gamers have,
like all of this strategy.
The regular people have to havesomething extra.
Maybe you got a.

Jess (01:06:07):
Military background.

Niq (01:06:09):
Right, you're a therapist.
They have to have some kind ofadvantage in order to compete.

Jess (01:06:18):
Yeah, I still seeing Andy'm like I still seeing Andy
break down a bit like I canstill see it in my head.
I feel for that girl I wantsomebody to give that baby a hug
.

Niq (01:06:26):
I think she's a they.
I'm sorry, I think they are athey.
They are a they.

Jess (01:06:30):
But yeah, somebody give them a hug.

Niq (01:06:34):
Right, yeah, I'm like you were not built for this, you
know, because, honestly, I'm oneof the things that there was
very little hard feelings at thereunion.
Like Dorinda was like still madat Bob, but I really honestly
think it's because no one knowswho she is and even though, like

(01:06:56):
Danielle was like oh oh, wecan't ever play a game together
where I trust you, she's like ona personal level though, we're
cool, you know, like, and Iappreciate like that, like okay,
there's real life and thenthere's gameplay.
You know, I like that and I'mlike that's hard for regular
people, that is right.

(01:07:17):
We only know about real lifeand so like, oh, I feel betrayed
, although I think I would beokay.
It depends.

Jess (01:07:27):
I mean, I can handle it, I could go on, I could be.
I could definitely be a traitor, I could do the show.
There is a lot to where I wouldbe pissed off with you in real
life, but it's still just gonnamake it for a good reunion show.
So either way, I don't knowbecause.

Niq (01:07:39):
I'm going to be pissed off with you in real life, but it's
still just going to make for agood reunion show.
So either way, I don't know,because I also imagine I would
be a traitor.
And if I'm a traitor I would dowhat I would need to do to win.
So how can I begrudge somebodyelse doing the same?

Jess (01:07:50):
thing Because I'm telling you what the line is for me.
I can deal with most of thebackstabbing and all that kind
of stuff.
You Trishel me.
I'm going to be pissed at youfor real life because I'm going
to hate you as a person.

Niq (01:08:02):
Well that, because then that person will be worthy of
hate.

Jess (01:08:04):
Yeah but I'm saying there's a line because I'm like,
oh, that's that stuff that theyalways do and I wouldn't be
done with her as a person andI'm really the street I mean.

Niq (01:08:11):
But like is to me what Trishel was doing was not
gameplay, no, it wasmicroaggressions.

Jess (01:08:25):
Right, that was racism, and so that that's different,
yeah, so but I'm saying like sono, there is a scenario in which
I will really be angry with you, but I still can handle the.
You know what I mean.
Right, the Boston, Rob Bob, theDrag thing, queen thing, you
know.

Niq (01:08:44):
Can we just for a second talk about Bob's outfit?
Yes, yes, it was so good and Ithought it was hilarious when he
was like oh, belong to mygrandma, that was hilarious.
He was like oh, belong to mygrandma, that was hilarious.
Yes, he had the red gloves thatlooked like nails, but then

(01:09:07):
they had something hanging fromthem and his hair like the
basket weave Creativity.
Most people were dressed reallynice.
No one looked really bad,although Boston Rob stood up and
he was like I think I lookpretty good today.
Those pants fit terribly.

Jess (01:09:24):
You still refuse to go to a tailor.

Niq (01:09:27):
I'm like are you wearing baggy?
Are you wearing sweatpants?
But they're formal or something.

Jess (01:09:34):
I have never seen a baggy tuxedo.
I've never seen somebody tryingto slouch a tuxedo before.

Niq (01:09:43):
But you know, hey go off sis, but Bob, like Bob, it was
so good.
But what was also funny waslike how like cut out, the dress
is around like the breast areawith no breast in it, whatsoever
.
Area with no breasts in it,what's I'm like.
But he's sitting like soconvincing that I kept looking

(01:10:05):
for breasts.

Jess (01:10:10):
I love Bob's outfit and I think that's the thing like,
yeah, I wasn't.
I understood when um, what'shis name?
Rob got him off and why he gothim off, but I'm like I just
missed his presence in the show.
I wanted to see more and Ithought I was going to have a
lot more about the drag queen inthe show.

Niq (01:10:30):
Yes, I think he definitely would have been a delight, he
definitely would have been likea joy and I would have traded
him for Dolores in a minute, orIvar, they were both nothing.
You know a lot of people likeeven her mushroomy antics like
they were entertaining she couldbe on the show, but like there

(01:10:55):
was a lot of like dead weight,the guy that we apparently have
blended into the identity of TomSandoval.
Yeah, yeah, Sam Tom Jr.
Yes, apparently he didn't haveto be on the show.
Yeah could have had just more.

Jess (01:11:12):
Bob the Drag Queen.

Niq (01:11:14):
I'm very happy.
I really enjoyed ourconversation.
I hope somebody can clip atleast our suggestions in the
most I'm like.
Do I need to send it to Andy?
Is Andy involved?
I know he always does thereunion but I don't know he gets

(01:11:35):
his ladies on the show byagreeing to host the reunion.
Love it, I don't know.
Somebody, let me know who Ineed to contact.
I have notes, yes, and I'mtrying to help.
You can have all my notes forfree, no charge, because I just
want a good season next season.
Okay, I'm generous, I'mgenerous, but, guys, I hope you

(01:11:58):
enjoyed our Traders finale andlook forward to our next episode
, when we'll be back.
What are we going to bediscussing?
What's coming up?

Jess (01:12:09):
next is the resort.

Niq (01:12:12):
Oh, we have the resort.
We've got some reallyinteresting, lighthearted and
fun shows coming down thepipeline before we get back to
some more serious shows, so lookout for our future episodes,
guys.

Jess (01:12:29):
Thank you Bye.