March 27, 2025 • 44 mins
In this month's episode of the Next Level Running Podcast Coach Sean Henning and I continue our conversation about getting started with running! This time we dive into how to start training if you are a beginner, or if you've had a long hiatus from running! We talk about minutes versus miles, effort versus pace, listening to your body versus pushing through! It's a great conversation for those just starting to train and wanting to know how to do so safely and effectively!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:03):
This is the Next Level Running Podcast, brought
to you by the expert coaches atRundoyan, helping runners of all
(00:25):
levels crush their goals on raceday by matching you with the
perfect coach or training plan.
Hello, and welcome back to theNext Level Running Podcast.
This month, Coach Sean Henningand myself, Coach Jacob
Phillips, we carry on theconversation from last month
where we're talking aboutrunning 101, getting started
with running.
Last month, we kind of dove intoshoes, gear, things, tips to get
(00:49):
you started.
This month, we dive into thetraining.
We talk about how do you getstarted?
What's too much?
What's not enough?
How many days should you berunning?
Should you listen to your body?
Should you go based on effort?
Should you run minutes versusmiles?
We dive into it all.
Look, if you're coming back froma long break from the last time
you ran or if you're juststarting to run, this is a great
conversation to help you getstarted.
(01:11):
But before I jump into theconversation with Coach Sean and
I, I want to point you to theshow notes below.
As always, I'll have my contactinfo as well as Coach Sean's.
Look, if you want to reach outabout training, if you want to
reach out about the podcast,there's a topic you want us to
dive into, feel free to reachout to us.
I also have the link torundoian.com.
Look, if you want to find acoach that is going to work
(01:34):
alongside you and help you crushyour running goals, look no
further than rundoian.com.
Look, we have a roster full ofexpert run coaches and a unique
matching feature to help get youmatch with the perfect coach for
what you're looking for.
If you're not quite ready for afull-time coach, check out the
Doyen Dashers program.
For$39 a month, you're able toget a a program written, a
(01:58):
training program written foryour goals by one of these
world-class expert run coacheshere at Rundoya.
Look, I did it a year ago.
It was about a year ago when Istarted the program, and it
kick-started me into a greatsummer of running.
It was awesome.
I was able to move thingsaround, make adjustments on the
fly.
I didn't feel married to theschedule, but I could do and
(02:20):
follow the schedule.
And so it was a great start forme, almost like a soft launch
into running.
A really good summer of runningfor me.
So I'd really encourage that ifyou're not quite ready for a
running coach just yet.
But also I want to point you notonly to that, but if you have
not clicked that follow buttonon Instagram at Rundoyan, you
(02:41):
should do that.
Every month, Coach Wilbenitescomes to you live with one of
our expert run coaches atRundoyan.
They discuss everything fromnutrition to marathon training
to recovery, any and everything.
They discuss it.
It's a great conversation.
And if you want to be part ofthat as it's going on, click
that follow button.
You'll be notified when they golive.
But that's enough about the shownotes.
(03:02):
We're going to jump into thisconversation with Coach Sean
Henning and myself as we talkabout getting into the training
if you're either a new runner oryou're coming back from kind of
a long hiatus from running.
Hey, man, how are you?
Hey, good.
How are you doing, Jacob?
I'm tired, man.
It's, yeah, I'm tired.
(03:23):
It's been a long day.
You know, we, we practicedpretty early and yeah, I'm
tired, but I'm good.
I'm good.
It's been, it's been busy.
You know, we're just like youguys were in the track season.
It's been crazy busy with familyand such, but
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
yeah.
How
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
are you
SPEAKER_00 (03:37):
doing?
Yeah.
I was going to say you should,you should, you should add that
into it too.
You've got, you've got anewborn.
I'm sure that that plays a rolein it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
It keeps it, uh, it keeps us moving.
I think like, you know, um,yeah, a lot more chores, you
know, that I, I probably wasn'tdoing, you know, a month ago,
but, uh, yeah, yeah, it's been,it's been busy.
And, you know, we had duringspring break, it was NCAA
indoors.
And so it wasn't really a springbreak.
And then, you know, right intooutdoor track this past weekend.
(04:07):
And I got the, you know, the,the sunburn tan lines, you know,
and, and, uh, and we're, youknow, we're traveling, I think,
you know, every week to nextseven weeks and so it's staying
all day at a track meet onSaturday mow the yard on Sunday
on top of everything else yougot going on you know but uh you
guys man you guys get to staypretty local right
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
yeah we for the most part we are yeah we uh you know
we don't do indoor track likeyou so that's uh I guess a um a
blessing and a curse I thinkit's more of a blessing because
it means we don't have to wedon't have to do a lot of big
trips that you know, pull usaway, pull me away from the
family and also, uh, pull, pullsus away from, you know, training
blocks, right?
You've got this race and thatrace, and you're constantly
(04:49):
thinking about the next thingyou've got on the, on the
calendar.
So it's nice.
Uh, but yeah, most of our meetsare fairly local.
We'll go, uh, this weekend, wegot about a, we got a big 40
minute drive, 40 minute drive.
It's brutal, brutal.
Um, but then, yeah, we'll go.
The next week we'll go up toStanford, San Francisco State.
We've got a couple meets upthere.
(05:11):
So I'll see you up there.
Yeah, we'll be there.
Hopefully.
Yeah, we'll both be there.
Yeah, so it's good.
Wait, give us the recap onindoors, man.
Tell us.
I know you didn't get to...
You weren't there for every partof it, but loved to hear how the
team did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Yeah, it was good.
I think it was the most we'dever qualified for.
We got a distance medley relayteam in there, which was fun.
Had a lady in the 800, and sheran really well.
I think we were texting duringher race.
She ran really well, but...
I think she was the seventhfastest time on the, on the day
(05:51):
or the weekend, but you know,she didn't make the, she didn't
make the final because of theway that you qualify or
whatever.
Um, so that was unfortunate.
It'd be nice if they just takethe eighth fastest or the eight
fastest time she should havebeen in there.
But, um, five kid girls, thatwas their first time competing
indoor nationals and they, theydidn't, they didn't, they didn't
run great, but it wasinteresting because, uh, one of
those ladies that qualified, shewas a fifth year senior indoors
(06:14):
was her last, uh, her lastseason of eligibility and then
you know she doesn't have anoutdoor season she's exhausted
that eligibility and a year agoyou know she's a she's a a
pretty, not mediocre is thewrong word, but a pretty average
college runner.
And she was running about 1730for the 5K a year ago.
And man, just decided to take itreally serious this summer and
(06:34):
this fall.
And she was our lead off leg onthe DMR and ran really fast
split there and ended up runninga 1635 5K this year, ran a 936
3K, a 456 mile.
So just had a tremendousbreakthrough.
And so when you see stuff likethat, it's really satisfying as
a coach, right?
It's not like Obviously, there'ssome talent there, but it took
(06:56):
her five years to get there.
A year ago, she wasn't close.
That was a cool celebration.
We had a little bit of a familyemergency, medical emergency.
My little girl got sick, so Ihad to fly home early.
We were in the NICU and the ERlast week.
It was a mess.
It was not fun, but everybody'shealthy.
We're good.
(07:16):
We're back.
Back rocking and rolling withthis busy season.
Great to
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
hear.
yeah no it's yeah it's good tohear man yeah that's uh glad
everything's okay with thefamily and uh yeah i think
that's a cool story about youruh your girl that that made it i
uh i think that's a great that'sa great thing for our listeners
here too you know that um itdoesn't always click right away
sometimes it takes a little bitof a grind and yeah um my guess
is i don't know this young ladyyou obviously know her very well
(07:41):
is my guess she um is that sheprobably believed in herself a
lot and she kept uh putting onefoot in front of the other and
uh you know she probably wasvery consistent and uh, didn't
miss a lot, I'm sure over thepast, you know, six months or
whatever.
And, uh, what do you know?
She ran really fast.
So,
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
you know, it's a, it's a patient person sport,
right.
And if you, uh, a lot of times,if you just, if you just outlast
people, you'll, you'll, you'llget pretty good, you know?
And, um, yeah, so that was, thatwas really cool, but, uh, to
see, and, you know, now she's inthat stage of life where she's
like, oh, you think I could runan attached this week?
And I said, man, take two, threeweeks off, just relax, you know,
like, you know, get, uh, youknow, you're going to be, you
(08:19):
know, I think she's doing it.
internship and she's married,she's, she's married to a guy on
our team.
And so, um, it was like, man,just, just kind of relax for a
little bit and, and let yourbody, you know, rest up from
five years of hard running and,and then figure that out later,
you know, but, uh, yeah, it's,it's weird.
Some people, when they finishedare really ready to be done.
Some people like they get thatitch and they just want to kind
(08:40):
of keep going.
And, and, uh, and I love it whenthey want to keep going, but
sometimes a little bit of amental reset is, is, is not a
bad idea, you know, for a coupleof weeks, but, um, But yeah, I
was going to ask, what's thefarthest you guys or the
furthest you guys will travelfor outdoors?
What's your biggest trip thisyear?
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
San Francisco.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
it.
Nice.
Where's conference?
Fresno.
So we'll go about four hours.
We'll go about a four-hourdrive.
Fresno in the end of April isprobably similar to Texas over
the summer, except dry.
Okay.
Yeah, you guys get it humid, Ithink, right?
Yeah, very
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
humid.
Yeah, the summer is prettymiserable, but right now it's
not bad.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah.
We'll be okay for most.
Yeah.
We don't have a lot of bigtrips, but, uh, San Francisco,
San Diego, a couple hours, youknow, nothing, nothing too big.
So, um, but, uh, but yeah, sothat's, uh, what's going on over
here.
We had, uh, you know, realquick.
I know, uh, uh, we got stuff totalk about, but we, we had world
indoors too.
Oh
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
That happened.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
You know, it's just, it's, it's crazy how, um, I
mean, I love running.
I'm on social media and like,yeah, it's just crazy.
It's just not as big aseverything else, you know.
And part of that, I think maybewe're in March Madness right
now, you know, so like that'skind of taken, you know, the
brunt of the American sportsviewer, I guess.
But yeah, anything that stoodout to you, anything that you
(10:08):
were fired up about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Yeah, well, you know, it's fun to see some U.S.
guys doing some stuff in the 3K.
We had a couple guys that didwell, and...
They finished fourth and fifth,which is great.
And they didn't get on thepodium, so to speak.
But still, that's really good.
That's really good for the U.S.
(10:31):
And, you know, a lot of the guysthat are competing at the indoor
level, they're not our top dogs,so to speak.
I mean, they're really good.
Obviously, they're professionalrunners.
They're elite.
But not all of them are the top.
And so it was good to see that.
Jaka, Ingebrigtsen doubled.
Obviously, he just killed itwith the– the three K and the
(10:52):
15.
And yeah, so that was, that waspretty cool.
And we also had a guy win that800
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
guy.
Yeah.
He's crushing it, man.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
He is.
Yeah.
He did a great job and he'sreally had, I had an amazing
last year.
I think he was the first guy offthe Olympic team last summer in
the 800.
I think he was fourth, Ibelieve.
But yeah, he was a favoritegoing in and he, he, yeah, he,
definitely took care ofbusiness.
So that was cool that we could,you know, come back with a
medal.
And, um, I think we had at leastone girl in the, uh, I'm not
(11:24):
sure, but we might've had atleast one girl in the, uh, the
women's 800.
And we had a couple, I think wehad a couple of girls do really
well in the three K as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Yeah.
I think Shelby, Shelby got, gota medal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
So, yeah, it's so weird, man,because, uh, you know, with
Shelby, you know, obviously it'sa interesting, you know, with
the, with the, however long ofthe band that she's, she's four
years off served.
And, and I followed her onStrava that whole time.
And she was training like amaniac, you know, which is
really hard to do when you can'trace.
(11:53):
And you, you know, there's, youknow but it was weird.
Cause I coached Kelsey Bruce into the 2019 world championships.
And Shelby was her roommate whenwe were in Qatar.
And, and so like, you know, youknow, like you're, Yeah, it's so
hard, man.
Like it's, it's so hard, but sheserved her time and she's
running great.
And I'm very interested to seewhere that goes, you know, cause
(12:13):
it's, you, you know, you losefour years.
It's a, that's a lot of, it's alot of time in running,
especially as you get older.
And, um, and so, but, uh, yeah,sure.
I guess her patience and herperseverance paid off cause she
got a medal and, and, uh, itseems like she seems like she's
rolling and enjoying herself andall that kind of good stuff.
But, um,
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
But yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Yep.
Now, now on to outdoors and, uh,for you and me and all the
professionals will probably takea break and then they'll
probably get rolling, uh, inApril slash May.
And,
SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
uh,
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
um, Yeah.
So, but it's, it's, you know,indoors is fun.
Indoors is always fun to watchthough, because it's just, it's
such a different event thanoutdoors.
Uh, outdoor track, 400 meters,no bank.
You got the inclement weather.
Sometimes indoors, perfectweather, 200 meters banked.
Um, it's harder to pass.
It's just, uh, it makes for a,just a totally different
(13:03):
experience.
And so, um,
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
yeah, completely different, man.
I, we, we, uh, we got spoiledindoors.
We you know, you're indoors,climate controlled, no sun.
And I am, I'm sitting out thereon Saturday and it's 85 degrees.
It's 30 mile per hour winds.
And I'm just getting burnt to acrisp and I'm thinking, wow, I,
uh, I need to figure out thisoutdoor thing because, uh, I
forgot, you know, so, um, that'sa lot different, man.
(13:28):
It's a, it's
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
a better wear your hat and put some SPF on or
something, man.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Yeah.
Well go, go to California asmany times as you can.
Right.
So like I said, we'll be outthere with you next, uh, I guess
that's next week.
And, uh, and then we'll be backin a couple of weeks later,
closer to your turf, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
I promise we'll bring you good weather when you
come out here, okay?
You have my word.
San Francisco will take care of
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
you.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to itbecause we have another meet
with major winds and stormspredicted.
And so, yeah, we'll see whathappens this weekend.
But last time we chatted, wewere talking about kind of like,
you know, running 101, likegetting started and, you know,
kind of the foundation of it,right?
Right.
Like the shoes, the mentaltricks and tips and that sort of
(14:18):
stuff.
And kind of run out a little bitof time there at the end and
really wanted to kind of carryon that conversation where we
talk about, you know, like,well, how do you how do you get
started as a runner?
Right.
Like if you're, you know, somesome people that are listening
or sitting there.
I mean, you and I both haveclients that that employ the run
walk method.
Right.
As they're trying to build fortheir first ever 5K all the way
(14:39):
up to.
to a marathon, right?
And, and so just kind of talkingthrough that idea of how do you
start, right?
Like, I mean, like it's, it'sfor us, we've been running, I
don't know when you startedrunning, but probably middle
school age for us, right?
Like we've been running a longtime.
If we take a year off or a monthoff, we kind of know how to get
back and get started.
It's like riding a bike, right?
(14:59):
What if you've never started?
And so, you know, just kind oftalking about that and, and just
kind of jumping into, hey, howdo you get started with
training?
How do you ease into that?
You know, what, what's kind ofsome good rules of thumb, all
that kind of good stuff.
And so what were your thoughtsthere?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so one of the questions Ilike to ask a new client or
honestly, even a new studentathlete, you know, is how long
have you been running for?
Right.
So for someone that's a firsttime runner, it might be zero
years, right?
Okay.
Well, at least we know, right.
But, but how long have you beenrunning for?
Tell us a little bit, tell me alittle bit about your, your
(15:37):
mileage history, right?
Are you running, have you beenrunning a lot?
Have you been, you know, puttingtogether 30 or 40 miles a week?
Are you a three miles a weektype of a person?
What is your history like?
And what is your injury historyas well in the sport?
And that usually kind of helpsus figure out a basic level of
where to start, right?
(15:59):
So for me, if someone's beenrunning for the past 20 years,
you know, I'm like, okay, you'rebasically a 20-year-old in the
sport, right?
You've been in it for a bit.
You understand, you know, theins and outs of it.
You've done a few races.
You know, that's great.
UNKNOWN (16:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
But, but yeah, I've had, I have a couple, I don't
have a lot, but I have a coupleof clients that are, that are
fairly new to running.
And so, or, or maybe they, theydid it and they took massive
amounts of time off.
Yeah.
I do have some of those.
Yeah.
When I say massive, I mean likeeight to 10 years.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Chunks of time.
And so, so they're almost,they're almost like an infant
sport.
Right.
And so, and learning about whatthey've done over the past, you
know, month to the, to the pastyear, what have you done?
Um, so that we know where wecan, where we can start from.
Right.
Yep.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
That's the value of having acoach, right.
(16:49):
Is they can really help, helpyou figure this out.
Um, yeah.
And so that's usually the firstquestion I ask.
And then, of course, if it'ssomebody that has not been
running at all or or it's beenseveral years and they're
basically at a walk level, theydon't feel comfortable jumping
into a straight run.
We kind of establish what arewhat are you comfortable doing
to start?
And I always go off a time whenit comes to bringing someone
(17:12):
into the fold with running.
Yeah.
If it's been someone that'sbeen.
just walking.
I don't, I don't have themrunning a mile straight.
We go off of time, right?
That's, that's how I do it.
And, but yeah, what about you?
Some of those clients, you know,has that been your strategy as
well?
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I remember, I think a yearago I was working with someone
writing an article for Runner'sWorld and it was that question.
It was like time versus mileage.
And I said, you know, if you'repretty seasoned and obviously
there's probably a kind ofdepends on how you're wired, but
pretty seasoned runners, uh,mileage is kind of my go-to new
(17:49):
runners.
It's, it's about time, right?
It's it's, and that could besegmented in one minute running
one minute walking or whatever,all the way up to five minutes
or a continuous run.
Right.
But, but I try to do, uh, I tryto do minutes.
I think for me, like when I havea client that's like starting,
Hey, I haven't done this or Ihaven't done this for a while.
It's been a long time, but treatme like I'm a beginner.
Uh, we try to be really, youknow, um, honest and realistic
(18:13):
with where we're at.
Right.
And I, I try to preach like thisidea of it's going to be a very
patient buildup, right?
Because what we don't want to dois get hurt.
A lot of times the clients thatI'll have reach out, say, you
know, I tried running, but ithurt my knees or hurt my shins
or my feet hurt.
And so a lot of times that'sprobably because we did too much
too soon.
And so we want to be, we justwant to be really patient with
(18:35):
that buildup and think in weeksor months, not days, right?
Like, you know, I've got oneclient I work with that I said,
hey, look, I'll be honest, likethis, this probably first couple
months you might just bebuilding up to like a 20 or 25
minute run.
And that might not sound verysexy, but you went from running
zero and we're trying to runthree or four times a week on
(18:56):
top of some cross training andsome other stuff.
But I think you hit it with,having a coach is very
important.
I think, I think the easiestthing, if you're trying to get
started with running is, is finda coach, whether that's, uh, uh,
you know, run Doyan with theworld-class expert run coaches
that are there, or, you know,finding a plan online or
something.
But I do think having a coachhelp with that is, is important
because we've dealt with it.
(19:17):
We we've dealt with beginners.
We've dealt with kids comingback or, you know, clients
coming back from injuries andhow to build back from that, you
know, like, and so I think, um,I think you nailed it there, but
I think really just talkingabout this idea of patience and
consistency over really bigefforts, you know, and for
(19:38):
beginners, a lot of times I'lltalk about this idea of, you
know, easy, relaxed,conversational.
You know, like if you were, ifyou, if you can't run with a
buddy or a friend and hold aconversation, then slow down.
Like you will eventually getfaster, but let's, let's relax.
Let's slow it down.
Let's, let's be, let's be.
(19:59):
And a lot of people sit thereand say like, easy, relax,
running.
That doesn't exist.
It does if you do it right.
And it might just involveslowing down.
But, but yeah, just trying to beeasy and conversational and
being relaxed with it versusVersus this is supposed to hurt.
This is supposed to be painful.
Um, I think running is supposedto be really enjoyable.
(20:20):
You know, there's some, there'ssome, obviously some hard days,
but I'd say like the majority ofyour running hopefully is
enjoyable.
Right.
And so we're trying to reallyteach what that feels like and
what that, what that means, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (20:32):
Yeah, no, I agree.
And, um, I think there's, uh,there's obviously with some
clients that have a little bitmore knowledge of the sport, we
can talk about percentage of VO2max effort, right?
Which I do with some of myclients.
I'll say, okay, we're lookingfor like a 60 to 70% of your VO2
max, you know, whatever you cando for about a two mile, 10
(20:53):
minute hard effort.
Like let's take a percentage ofthat.
Right.
But then I have some clientsthat that means nothing to them.
And I said, okay, here's whatwe're looking for.
Exactly what you said.
Comfortable, conversational,relaxed.
You, you, can carry on aconversation, but it's not,
maybe you're not able to givethis monologue for three minutes
(21:14):
and not have to, you know, skipa beat.
Like you're breathing a littlebit, but you're able to, you
know, have sentences come out ofyour mouth while you're running.
And so I think the effort isreally important.
Heart rate's tricky, I'd say,because Again, the only way
heart rate really works is ifeither you do a VO2 max test or
(21:37):
you somehow know your maximumheart rate and your resting
heart rate, which a lot ofpeople don't know their max.
They might know the resting, butthey don't know the max, right?
And so we're kind of guessing onthat.
And so sometimes I use that withclients, you know, that maybe we
have a rough idea and it givesthem another data point to work
with.
But oftentimes I have someclients that we just don't
really know.
We're not sure what their maxis.
(21:58):
And so it's a complete guess.
The 220...
minus your age thing is a is anice basic number but it can
definitely be off by 20 or even30 beats per minute so um so
yeah i don't typically focus onthat a lot um i think another
thing that uh is kind of aninteresting uh concept is you're
(22:18):
talking about building abuilding an athlete up from from
scratch right okay we'restarting up what do we do um
there's this This idea of nomore than five miles a week and
you got to do it for at leastthree weeks before you can
possibly move up.
Right.
And somewhere, you know, in thehistory of running, somebody
(22:41):
stated this and it has becomelaw.
You know, like this must be whatwe follow.
Period.
End of story.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
And I think it's a nice rule of thumb, but I don't
think it has to be that way.
Right.
I think.
Yeah.
Some people can jump up morethan others.
Some people, maybe they need togo slower, right?
But I don't think there's one...
way that you necessarily need todo it.
Um, so I think it's just goodfor our listeners to know it
does not have to be this fivemiles a week, do it for three
(23:10):
weeks, then you can go up andyou and I would have college
athletes.
It would take half a year to getanywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
And like the, you know, you, youhear the 10% rule, right.
Or whatever.
And sometimes that's probably avery good thing to follow.
Um, but not all the time.
I think that, uh, you would betaking forever building it and
You know, you and I will haveclients that say, hey, like I'm
signing on.
I've got a marathon in 12 weeks.
(23:36):
Well, the truth is, is like ifyou're going to complete that
marathon from scratch in 12weeks, we have to move you up
pretty quickly, at least for thelong run.
Exactly.
Like we have to do this if we'regoing to get you prepared to
finish 26.2 miles.
And so like you can't jump up.
the 10% or the five milesbecause your long run is
probably jumping up a mile totwo miles every week, right?
(23:57):
As we kind of get you to acertain marker to know that,
hey, look, you've gotten to, forme, it's usually 20 miles,
right?
Like that's kind of my marker.
If you can run 20 miles, we canget to 26.2, right?
Like we can build to 20 miles,but that's kind of my marker.
And some people do 16, somepeople do 18, some people do
more than that, right?
But I think there's got to, eachcoach probably has this marker
(24:18):
of knowing you've done this.
I think you can complete thisrace Thanks.
We can't get there if we'retaking it, you know, 10%, right?
You're going to take forever toget there.
And again, sometimes that'sneeded.
I've got a couple of clientswho've signed up recently and
it's like, hey, I have a year.
I want to do a hundred milerace.
First of all, that's a hundredmile race is not really running.
(24:39):
It's enduring.
There's a long time to get to ahundred miles, right?
Obviously we're not going tobuild to a hundred miles in
training, but like you got ayear to kind of get there.
But a lot of times we'll get,this past year I had two clients
that said i've got eight weeksto new york city marathon i've
got 12 weeks one had 12 weeksone had eight weeks and they had
the longest run that they haddone at the time was three to
(25:00):
four miles their goal was theirgoal was to complete the
marathon and so you knowobviously i couldn't get the one
to 20 miles but i kind of gotthem to but and they both
completed it and it was all goodand such but i think like it
kind of depends on what you'retraining for um but i i think
like When we're starting with aclient, again, not a veteran,
(25:21):
not somebody who's run 10marathons, it's been great, but
we're looking for, man, how fastcan I go next year?
When we're talking beginners,talking people who aren't coming
from that background of trainingat a high level, there's a lot
that I think they don't reallyquite realize.
I think one is like, and it'stough when you sign up for a
(25:43):
coach, when you're paying for acoach, you want the hard, you
want, this is what I signed upfor.
Right.
And the truth is, it's going totake a long time to get there.
If you're starting from scratch,a lot of it's going to be very
basic, very simple, but it's,it's, it's, it's, it's those
incremental steps that get youthere.
But I think like, there's thingsthat like, you know, you might
not think about like making sureyou're stretching, you know,
(26:04):
making sure you're incorporatingsome sort of strength work.
And obviously coaches can helpwith this, but like, you're
going to start feeling thingsyou haven't felt before if
you're not running, right?
And so, you know, we can't justtake days off.
You and I talked about thistoday, about this idea of
consistency and like not missingworkouts.
Well, how do we keep it going?
By stretching, by strengtheningthings that are starting to get
(26:24):
sore or to get fatigued orwhatever.
You know, like making sure we'rein good shoes.
You know, I think we're going totalk maybe a little bit about
shoes and some technology andstuff, but making sure you're in
good shoes, right?
Making sure you're in a pair ofshoes that is good for your foot
and your foot strike and yourmechanics.
And then really, as important asa good training program is and
(26:47):
all these other things, youcannot outrun good sleep, good
hydration, good nutrition,right?
And I think sometimes we think,okay, hey, I want to run a
marathon.
How many miles do I need to run?
Can you get me in shape?
And it's like, yeah, that's veryimportant.
You cannot replace the running,but there's a lot of things that
you can do to make the running alot easier on you and to to make
(27:10):
your build a lot smoother.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, totally.
Well, let me ask you this.
What are your thoughts on effortover pace in time?
What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Yeah, good question.
So I think if you're lookingjust to complete a distance, I
think you're running effort.
I think if you tell me, hey,look, I want to run a 5K under
25 minutes, or I want to run amarathon under three hours, at
that point we're training for apace.
Right.
And so I think it kind ofdepends on your goals.
Um, like if, even if you're abeginner and you say, like a lot
(27:48):
of times they'll say, Hey, Iwant to complete 26.2 miles.
I'd like to do it under fourhours.
There's a pace that you have torun to break four hours.
Right.
And so, um, so you definitelyhave to do some work at that
pace.
Um, you know, if we're talkingabout, uh, a hot, humid race or
a hilly race, and you don't havereally hills to train for
something, maybe we're talkingmore effort there.
Um, but typically, uh, I try tobreak it into...
(28:13):
they're trying to complete thedistance or they have a, they
have a time goal in mind.
And if they've got a time goalin mind, we're going to really
dive into some pace, some veryspecific things.
If they're just trying tocomplete it, I really try to
dive into effort, you know,whether that's because I don't
want to just give them easyrunning every day, right?
Even if they're a run walkmethod, I want some faster
(28:35):
running.
I want some harder running.
I don't want it to just be easyjogging all day.
Right.
And so that might, focus oneffort more than a pace.
But if you tell me, hey, look, Iwant to break 90 minutes for the
half marathon, we better berunning what that pace feels
like.
Otherwise, you're not going tobe prepared to break 90 minutes,
right?
(28:55):
You've got to have some specificpace work there, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Well, and I would say, so I agree with that.
You do have to be able to runcertain paces if you're going to
even fathom running it in arace, right?
Totally agree with that.
Yep.
I do think one important thingto factor into all of this is
just life's rhythms, thestressors that are in life.
And I think a lot of the peoplethat we work with and that are
(29:25):
listening to this podcast,they're not professional
runners, right?
They've got stuff going on.
They've got full-time job maybethey have a wife and children
and other stressors and maybethey have two jobs maybe they
have a commute maybe they livein a an area that is you know
ridiculously hot or ridiculouslycold and so there's all these
factors that come into playright and so i think it's
(29:47):
important to remember the effortat times because there just
might be a day where let's sayyou and i um you know, we, we
have a, I'm trying to think ofa, let's just, I'll come up with
a basic number.
They're trying to run 1845 for a5k.
Okay.
Well you and I know that sixminute mile pace.
(30:08):
Okay.
So we want them to do some, someintervals and we want them to
run them at 5k pace.
Okay.
So we're wanting them to dowhatever 800 meter intervals at
around, around a six minute milepace, whatever.
So maybe they, had a long day atwork.
Maybe they had to go take theirson or daughter somewhere.
(30:30):
And maybe they're finallygetting around to the workout at
five or six o'clock in theevening and it's cold.
And I don't know, whereverthey're running is not ideal.
And so in those instances, Iwould encourage clients to not
stress about the pace becausethe pace just may not be there
on the day.
right?
(30:50):
The ideal pace might be, Hey,let's run three flat for these
eight hundreds, but it just maynot be there because of the
fatigue that you've alreadyaccumulated throughout the day.
Right.
And we would say the same thingwith our collegiate athletes,
right?
Like there are days where, youknow, it's just not going to
happen because you can tell thatthey are feeling it.
So, so it's important while,while the pace, the pace is
(31:11):
important, right?
It's important for them to know,look, if the, if we're doing a
We're doing a VO2max workout andwe're trying to run 95% of your
VO2max effort I don't want youto run a hundred percent of
your, I don't want you tobasically race to accomplish
this time because now we've useda completely different energy
(31:33):
system.
We put ourself in debt.
We probably affected the rest ofthe week,
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
et
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
cetera.
So, so making sure like, again,this is the art of coaching,
right?
This is, this is where you and Ihave to use our best judgment.
And yes, a hundred percent.
There are times where we have topush our athletes to say, Hey,
you really need to learn thispace.
You need to understand it.
You need to feel it.
But also we have times where wehave to say, look, We're not
hitting the space today.
That's fine.
The effort is still important.
(31:58):
The benefit is still there if weachieve the effort on the day.
Focus on the effort.
The benefit will be there evenif the time– we don't get to
spend time at this pace.
That's unfortunate, right?
We want to do that.
But you're still gettingsomething out of the day.
And I think that's reallyimportant for listeners to
understand is you're going tohave those days.
(32:19):
It's okay.
There's that old 80-20 rule,right?
If 80% of the stuff you do isreally good, if 20% is average
at best or maybe bad, you'restill moving the needle.
You're still doing okay.
And just not being so slave tothe pace that I must hit it or
else, you know, it can be adangerous game to play.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
I've got a client, Santiago.
He was a guest on the podcast.
He has run a PR, I think, inevery marathon that we've worked
together with.
And it's been a good streak.
And I mean, he's in Ecuador.
It's sometimes very hot, veryhumid.
His locations are very hilly.
And there's a lot of times wherehe says, coach, I couldn't hit
(33:01):
the pace, but the effort wasthere, you know, and like.
And he knows– and again, he's aveteran runner.
He's been running a lot ofmarathons for a lot of years and
such.
But I say, hey, man, you knowwhat to do.
I'm not stressed about it.
I'm not stressed about it beinga couple seconds per kilometer
off or whatever.
Yeah, I agree with you.
All those days count, right?
(33:22):
Even those days where it feelslike we're just trudging through
the mud, it counts.
But I think as we're talkingabout this– You know, one of the
things I was going to ask you islike, and let's, you know, I
think the majority of ourlisteners either plan to run
marathons or run marathons, etcetera, right?
(33:43):
What do you think is the, and Iknow this is probably
circumstantial, but what do youthink is the minimum frequency?
So the amount of days that youcan run per week in order to run
a marathon?
good marathon again i don't knowwhat good means but but run it
strong run run the whole thingmaybe no walk breaks uh to
complete 26.2 miles i meanwhat's the what's the minimum
(34:05):
frequency what's the minimumlong run in in your mind because
if we're talking about beginnersthey're probably sitting here
saying like i don't have sevendays a week to run like right
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
yeah totally yeah no that's uh i think that's a great
question and yeah what what isconsidered a good marathon right
that's uh i i would say i wouldsay this if you if you can if
you're looking to complete amarathon and and primarily be
running the entire time
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
and
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
uh not be at the caboose of the race where you're
you're the you're the last guyor gal that's almost getting
picked up by the uh the trailthe trail car you know and
you're wanting to you know putin a good effort you're not
winning the race but you'recompleting it you feel good
about it it's a decent time umand uh you've you've for the
most part ran the whole thingobviously we you know you and i
(34:50):
both been been there where we'vehad that had our fair share of
walk breaks past mile 20 atleast i have
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
my first marathon i walked in so yeah it's brutal um
You should have ran, man.
You should have.
I walked the last 10K in of myfirst ever marathon.
So
SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
the
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
wheels came off quick.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
They sure did.
Geez.
Yeah.
I would say, I would say fourdays a week.
That's a, to me, that's a safenumber where you're wanting,
you're putting out this goal ofcompleting a solid marathon.
I think four days is important.
The long run, that's a trickything.
I would agree with you.
I think 20 miles, it soundsgood.
I think the other thing with 20miles is really when you think
(35:31):
about the goal of the long run.
We're trying to spend time onour feet.
We're trying to get time on ourfeet.
We're trying to get our body tolearn how to deal with the
energy needs deep into a racefor long periods of time when
your glycogen stores aredepleted.
How do we deal with that?
(35:52):
We need to feel that.
We need to learn how to refueland work through that period.
If you can get to 20 miles, formost people, That's going to be–
again, it depends on how fastyou're running.
But let's say you're just–you're trying to run just a
solid day.
That's going to be over twohours and 20 minutes.
It's going to be probably overtwo hours and 30 minutes for
(36:15):
just almost everybody listening.
Yeah.
That's a long amount of time,right?
So I think if you can get tothat, and the hope is obviously
you run the marathon and you canrun a little bit quicker than
you do on that long run,hopefully, then I think that
would prepare you well.
Yeah, I mean, I've definitelytrained for marathons and gotten
(36:36):
up to 22 or 23, but I thinkgetting up to 20 is good.
I do think you have to becareful, though, If you have
someone that's trying to do thisshort build, like you had
mentioned, a client, 12 weeks,they're starting from three
miles, the 20-mile is just notgoing to happen.
No, it's not.
Or if you get a client– and I'vehad this happen where– there was
(36:59):
a minor injury that occurred andwe were already kind of on a
tight schedule.
And then we lost two long runs.
What do we do?
Right.
Do we, do we just jump, jump thelong run up five miles so we can
kind of get caught up again?
Or, or do we just, uh, do wejust kind of accept that that's
the case and all right, we'regoing to get a quality 18 miler
and we're going to get two ofthose and we're going to feel
(37:20):
really good about it.
Um, so sometimes you have topivot like that, but I do think
getting up to 20 and ideally ifyou can get in a couple of
those, I think that's really,really beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so too.
I think, uh, you know, I, I hada guy, uh, one of my first
clients ever with Rundoy andgetting ready for New York city,
we get to 18 miles and then hepulls his calf and he, he
cross-trained cross-trainedcross-trained.
He comes back.
We're 10 days out from the race.
We had done the bulk of thetraining and he was like, I was
like, look, we're not trying togo more.
(37:51):
We're actually going to taperdown to health, you know, and
just going to, and he crushedit.
He did exactly what he wanted todo, ran his time.
And so sometimes, you know, lessis more kind of depending on the
situation and such, but I thinkless is more.
Yeah.
A lot of times.
Yeah.
A lot of times.
I mean, we, I think we probablyhold our athletes back a lot
more than, you know, they'reprobably wanting us to go harder
(38:12):
on them and stuff.
But with that, and I think thismay be the last, last thing that
we, we, we hit on just quickly,but like, you know, this idea of
less is more sometimes.
And this maybe can be a topic wedo later about, you know,
something completely different,but when to push yourself, when
to listen to your body, when torest, I think that's, I think
(38:32):
that's complicated.
So maybe we can't do it veryquickly, but like, Yeah.
I mean, someone new, it's hardto know when to listen to your
body because you're new.
It's going to hurt.
It's going to be painful.
You're going to be fatigued.
Like, so yeah.
Thoughts on that.
When is it okay to push?
When, when should you belistening to your body?
When should you choose rest overfighting to the fatigue?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Yeah.
If you're, if you're a newrunner, right.
Or you're starting a build, Ithink listening to your body
right off the bat is important,right?
Once you get more comfortable inyour own skin and you learn, you
know, what feels good, then Ithink you can learn where to
push.
I do not think the goal shouldbe, I'm going to push myself
right off the bat.
I think that will...
Number one, you might getinjured.
(39:11):
Number two, you might haterunning after that.
And number three, I think itcould just...
while it could be wildlyinaccurate as to what you're
capable of.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
It's better to start.
It's better to start cautiouslyand listen to your body, take
your time.
And once you establish a goodbase, then I think it's okay to
start pushing yourself a littlebit more and challenging
yourself.
But I, but I would not suggest aclient push right off the bat.
I think laying a basicfoundation, kind of feeling
(39:42):
what, what is a comfortableeffort.
And that way we, When you get tothe point where you're ready to
do workouts, you at least knowwhere your baseline is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Yeah, I love that you said that because you will
learn what you can push through,right?
Like you will learn what isfatigue and what's soreness and
what's injury, right?
You'll learn that.
And it's better to be cautiousearly.
And so, yeah, great answerthere.
Great answer there.
Well, hey, this is fun.
Shout outs.
Any clients or anybody you wantto shout out?
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to one of my clients,Beck.
I've been working with Beck for,gosh, I think a few months now,
and...
Lives out on the East Coast.
He's actually getting ready forBoston.
He had a great marathon at CIM,Cal International.
Did a fantastic job.
(40:31):
The shout out is that he's justdone a great job of family,
full-time job, getting up at 0dark 30 to get his runs in and
Actually had a setback, had aninjury that just came out of
nowhere.
And so we had about a week ortwo where it was just like, all
right, what's our next stephere?
And he did a great job.
(40:51):
He kind of stayed the course,took his time.
He relinquished control over themileage and didn't stress about
that.
And now we're back on a goodpath.
So I'm very proud of him forkind of staying the course and I
think we'll be okay.
So yeah, how about you?
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
Yeah, Garrett, a client I've been working with
for, I mean, I don't know, ayear or two.
I can't remember.
It's been a long time.
He just ran a 50 miler this pastweekend, a race, and that's the
longest I've ever trainedsomeone for.
So he was my Guinea pig and hecrushed it.
I mean, to, I, to be so smoothfor 50 miles on sand, it was
(41:28):
like a beach run or something.
And so, um, but he's so good atmaking sure he has a plan like
nutrition and he just stuck toit.
And, and it just like when aclient is just so responsive and
lets you know how they'refeeling and how the workouts are
going.
And yeah, it just was, it was anAwesome build up.
We've had a, every race thathe's run, he's run a PR over the
(41:50):
last year.
And then he said, Hey, look,I've done this marathon thing.
I've gotten faster every time.
I want to do something thatreally challenges me.
And so he picked this 50 mile.
And I said, you sure you don'twant to do the 50 K, you know,
and no, I want to do a 50 miler.
And, and, uh, and he crushedthat this weekend.
And so we're going to, we'regoing to link up at some point
this week and figure out what'snext.
Cause he's got that, he's gotthat, that itch, you know, he
wants to, he wants to keep afterit.
(42:11):
And so, yeah, he crushed it, hada great, uh, 50 miler and, uh,
uh, out there, I think, uh, inSouth Carolina on the beaches
out there.
Good job, Garrett.
Nicely done.
Yeah, yeah, you crushed it.
Make your coach look good.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
I've never done it before, but Iwill see you next week in
(42:31):
California, man.
I'll be out there, and yeah,we'll be back next month with
another episode.
SPEAKER_00 (42:37):
That's right, my friend.
All right, well, take care.
Safe travels out here, and we'llsee you soon.
See you.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (42:42):
And that does it for this month's episode of the Next
Level Running Podcast.
I want to thank Coach SeanHenning as my co-host.
It's been fun getting a chanceto dive into this topic, running
101 over the last few months.
We're going to change gears alittle bit next month.
We're going to come back.
We're going to be diving intocommon running injuries and
(43:04):
maybe how to prevent and rehabthose, right?
So we don't want you gettinghurt.
So what can we do to maybe helpyou prevent that?
But if you're dealing with somethings, maybe there's some
things that we can do to helpyou rehab that.
So super excited for nextmonth's conversation.
Again, don't forget get to checkout the show notes.
There's good information there.
And thanks so much for joiningus again this month.
(43:25):
Thanks to Coach Sean for histime.
Hey, and until next time, have agreat run.
We'll see you then.
This is the Next Level Running Podcast, brought
to you by the expert coaches atRundoyan, helping runners of all
(00:25):
levels crush their goals on raceday by matching you with the
perfect coach or training plan.
Hello, and welcome back to theNext Level Running Podcast.
This month, Coach Sean Henningand myself, Coach Jacob
Phillips, we carry on theconversation from last month
where we're talking aboutrunning 101, getting started
with running.
Last month, we kind of dove intoshoes, gear, things, tips to get
(00:49):
you started.
This month, we dive into thetraining.
We talk about how do you getstarted?
What's too much?
What's not enough?
How many days should you berunning?
Should you listen to your body?
Should you go based on effort?
Should you run minutes versusmiles?
We dive into it all.
Look, if you're coming back froma long break from the last time
you ran or if you're juststarting to run, this is a great
conversation to help you getstarted.
(01:11):
But before I jump into theconversation with Coach Sean and
I, I want to point you to theshow notes below.
As always, I'll have my contactinfo as well as Coach Sean's.
Look, if you want to reach outabout training, if you want to
reach out about the podcast,there's a topic you want us to
dive into, feel free to reachout to us.
I also have the link torundoian.com.
Look, if you want to find acoach that is going to work
(01:34):
alongside you and help you crushyour running goals, look no
further than rundoian.com.
Look, we have a roster full ofexpert run coaches and a unique
matching feature to help get youmatch with the perfect coach for
what you're looking for.
If you're not quite ready for afull-time coach, check out the
Doyen Dashers program.
For$39 a month, you're able toget a a program written, a
(01:58):
training program written foryour goals by one of these
world-class expert run coacheshere at Rundoya.
Look, I did it a year ago.
It was about a year ago when Istarted the program, and it
kick-started me into a greatsummer of running.
It was awesome.
I was able to move thingsaround, make adjustments on the
fly.
I didn't feel married to theschedule, but I could do and
(02:20):
follow the schedule.
And so it was a great start forme, almost like a soft launch
into running.
A really good summer of runningfor me.
So I'd really encourage that ifyou're not quite ready for a
running coach just yet.
But also I want to point you notonly to that, but if you have
not clicked that follow buttonon Instagram at Rundoyan, you
(02:41):
should do that.
Every month, Coach Wilbenitescomes to you live with one of
our expert run coaches atRundoyan.
They discuss everything fromnutrition to marathon training
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But that's enough about the shownotes.
(03:02):
We're going to jump into thisconversation with Coach Sean
Henning and myself as we talkabout getting into the training
if you're either a new runner oryou're coming back from kind of
a long hiatus from running.
Hey, man, how are you?
Hey, good.
How are you doing, Jacob?
I'm tired, man.
It's, yeah, I'm tired.
(03:23):
It's been a long day.
You know, we, we practicedpretty early and yeah, I'm
tired, but I'm good.
I'm good.
It's been, it's been busy.
You know, we're just like youguys were in the track season.
It's been crazy busy with familyand such, but
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
yeah.
How
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
are you
SPEAKER_00 (03:37):
doing?
Yeah.
I was going to say you should,you should, you should add that
into it too.
You've got, you've got anewborn.
I'm sure that that plays a rolein it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
It keeps it, uh, it keeps us moving.
I think like, you know, um,yeah, a lot more chores, you
know, that I, I probably wasn'tdoing, you know, a month ago,
but, uh, yeah, yeah, it's been,it's been busy.
And, you know, we had duringspring break, it was NCAA
indoors.
And so it wasn't really a springbreak.
And then, you know, right intooutdoor track this past weekend.
(04:07):
And I got the, you know, the,the sunburn tan lines, you know,
and, and, uh, and we're, youknow, we're traveling, I think,
you know, every week to nextseven weeks and so it's staying
all day at a track meet onSaturday mow the yard on Sunday
on top of everything else yougot going on you know but uh you
guys man you guys get to staypretty local right
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
yeah we for the most part we are yeah we uh you know
we don't do indoor track likeyou so that's uh I guess a um a
blessing and a curse I thinkit's more of a blessing because
it means we don't have to wedon't have to do a lot of big
trips that you know, pull usaway, pull me away from the
family and also, uh, pull, pullsus away from, you know, training
blocks, right?
You've got this race and thatrace, and you're constantly
(04:49):
thinking about the next thingyou've got on the, on the
calendar.
So it's nice.
Uh, but yeah, most of our meetsare fairly local.
We'll go, uh, this weekend, wegot about a, we got a big 40
minute drive, 40 minute drive.
It's brutal, brutal.
Um, but then, yeah, we'll go.
The next week we'll go up toStanford, San Francisco State.
We've got a couple meets upthere.
(05:11):
So I'll see you up there.
Yeah, we'll be there.
Hopefully.
Yeah, we'll both be there.
Yeah, so it's good.
Wait, give us the recap onindoors, man.
Tell us.
I know you didn't get to...
You weren't there for every partof it, but loved to hear how the
team did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Yeah, it was good.
I think it was the most we'dever qualified for.
We got a distance medley relayteam in there, which was fun.
Had a lady in the 800, and sheran really well.
I think we were texting duringher race.
She ran really well, but...
I think she was the seventhfastest time on the, on the day
(05:51):
or the weekend, but you know,she didn't make the, she didn't
make the final because of theway that you qualify or
whatever.
Um, so that was unfortunate.
It'd be nice if they just takethe eighth fastest or the eight
fastest time she should havebeen in there.
But, um, five kid girls, thatwas their first time competing
indoor nationals and they, theydidn't, they didn't, they didn't
run great, but it wasinteresting because, uh, one of
those ladies that qualified, shewas a fifth year senior indoors
(06:14):
was her last, uh, her lastseason of eligibility and then
you know she doesn't have anoutdoor season she's exhausted
that eligibility and a year agoyou know she's a she's a a
pretty, not mediocre is thewrong word, but a pretty average
college runner.
And she was running about 1730for the 5K a year ago.
And man, just decided to take itreally serious this summer and
(06:34):
this fall.
And she was our lead off leg onthe DMR and ran really fast
split there and ended up runninga 1635 5K this year, ran a 936
3K, a 456 mile.
So just had a tremendousbreakthrough.
And so when you see stuff likethat, it's really satisfying as
a coach, right?
It's not like Obviously, there'ssome talent there, but it took
(06:56):
her five years to get there.
A year ago, she wasn't close.
That was a cool celebration.
We had a little bit of a familyemergency, medical emergency.
My little girl got sick, so Ihad to fly home early.
We were in the NICU and the ERlast week.
It was a mess.
It was not fun, but everybody'shealthy.
We're good.
(07:16):
We're back.
Back rocking and rolling withthis busy season.
Great to
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
hear.
yeah no it's yeah it's good tohear man yeah that's uh glad
everything's okay with thefamily and uh yeah i think
that's a cool story about youruh your girl that that made it i
uh i think that's a great that'sa great thing for our listeners
here too you know that um itdoesn't always click right away
sometimes it takes a little bitof a grind and yeah um my guess
is i don't know this young ladyyou obviously know her very well
(07:41):
is my guess she um is that sheprobably believed in herself a
lot and she kept uh putting onefoot in front of the other and
uh you know she probably wasvery consistent and uh, didn't
miss a lot, I'm sure over thepast, you know, six months or
whatever.
And, uh, what do you know?
She ran really fast.
So,
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
you know, it's a, it's a patient person sport,
right.
And if you, uh, a lot of times,if you just, if you just outlast
people, you'll, you'll, you'llget pretty good, you know?
And, um, yeah, so that was, thatwas really cool, but, uh, to
see, and, you know, now she's inthat stage of life where she's
like, oh, you think I could runan attached this week?
And I said, man, take two, threeweeks off, just relax, you know,
like, you know, get, uh, youknow, you're going to be, you
(08:19):
know, I think she's doing it.
internship and she's married,she's, she's married to a guy on
our team.
And so, um, it was like, man,just, just kind of relax for a
little bit and, and let yourbody, you know, rest up from
five years of hard running and,and then figure that out later,
you know, but, uh, yeah, it's,it's weird.
Some people, when they finishedare really ready to be done.
Some people like they get thatitch and they just want to kind
(08:40):
of keep going.
And, and, uh, and I love it whenthey want to keep going, but
sometimes a little bit of amental reset is, is, is not a
bad idea, you know, for a coupleof weeks, but, um, But yeah, I
was going to ask, what's thefarthest you guys or the
furthest you guys will travelfor outdoors?
What's your biggest trip thisyear?
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
San Francisco.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
it.
Nice.
Where's conference?
Fresno.
So we'll go about four hours.
We'll go about a four-hourdrive.
Fresno in the end of April isprobably similar to Texas over
the summer, except dry.
Okay.
Yeah, you guys get it humid, Ithink, right?
Yeah, very
SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
humid.
Yeah, the summer is prettymiserable, but right now it's
not bad.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah.
We'll be okay for most.
Yeah.
We don't have a lot of bigtrips, but, uh, San Francisco,
San Diego, a couple hours, youknow, nothing, nothing too big.
So, um, but, uh, but yeah, sothat's, uh, what's going on over
here.
We had, uh, you know, realquick.
I know, uh, uh, we got stuff totalk about, but we, we had world
indoors too.
Oh
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
That happened.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
You know, it's just, it's, it's crazy how, um, I
mean, I love running.
I'm on social media and like,yeah, it's just crazy.
It's just not as big aseverything else, you know.
And part of that, I think maybewe're in March Madness right
now, you know, so like that'skind of taken, you know, the
brunt of the American sportsviewer, I guess.
But yeah, anything that stoodout to you, anything that you
(10:08):
were fired up about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Yeah, well, you know, it's fun to see some U.S.
guys doing some stuff in the 3K.
We had a couple guys that didwell, and...
They finished fourth and fifth,which is great.
And they didn't get on thepodium, so to speak.
But still, that's really good.
That's really good for the U.S.
(10:31):
And, you know, a lot of the guysthat are competing at the indoor
level, they're not our top dogs,so to speak.
I mean, they're really good.
Obviously, they're professionalrunners.
They're elite.
But not all of them are the top.
And so it was good to see that.
Jaka, Ingebrigtsen doubled.
Obviously, he just killed itwith the– the three K and the
(10:52):
15.
And yeah, so that was, that waspretty cool.
And we also had a guy win that800
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
guy.
Yeah.
He's crushing it, man.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
He is.
Yeah.
He did a great job and he'sreally had, I had an amazing
last year.
I think he was the first guy offthe Olympic team last summer in
the 800.
I think he was fourth, Ibelieve.
But yeah, he was a favoritegoing in and he, he, yeah, he,
definitely took care ofbusiness.
So that was cool that we could,you know, come back with a
medal.
And, um, I think we had at leastone girl in the, uh, I'm not
(11:24):
sure, but we might've had atleast one girl in the, uh, the
women's 800.
And we had a couple, I think wehad a couple of girls do really
well in the three K as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Yeah.
I think Shelby, Shelby got, gota medal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
So, yeah, it's so weird, man,because, uh, you know, with
Shelby, you know, obviously it'sa interesting, you know, with
the, with the, however long ofthe band that she's, she's four
years off served.
And, and I followed her onStrava that whole time.
And she was training like amaniac, you know, which is
really hard to do when you can'trace.
(11:53):
And you, you know, there's, youknow but it was weird.
Cause I coached Kelsey Bruce into the 2019 world championships.
And Shelby was her roommate whenwe were in Qatar.
And, and so like, you know, youknow, like you're, Yeah, it's so
hard, man.
Like it's, it's so hard, but sheserved her time and she's
running great.
And I'm very interested to seewhere that goes, you know, cause
(12:13):
it's, you, you know, you losefour years.
It's a, that's a lot of, it's alot of time in running,
especially as you get older.
And, um, and so, but, uh, yeah,sure.
I guess her patience and herperseverance paid off cause she
got a medal and, and, uh, itseems like she seems like she's
rolling and enjoying herself andall that kind of good stuff.
But, um,
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
But yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Yep.
Now, now on to outdoors and, uh,for you and me and all the
professionals will probably takea break and then they'll
probably get rolling, uh, inApril slash May.
And,
SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
uh,
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
um, Yeah.
So, but it's, it's, you know,indoors is fun.
Indoors is always fun to watchthough, because it's just, it's
such a different event thanoutdoors.
Uh, outdoor track, 400 meters,no bank.
You got the inclement weather.
Sometimes indoors, perfectweather, 200 meters banked.
Um, it's harder to pass.
It's just, uh, it makes for a,just a totally different
(13:03):
experience.
And so, um,
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
yeah, completely different, man.
I, we, we, uh, we got spoiledindoors.
We you know, you're indoors,climate controlled, no sun.
And I am, I'm sitting out thereon Saturday and it's 85 degrees.
It's 30 mile per hour winds.
And I'm just getting burnt to acrisp and I'm thinking, wow, I,
uh, I need to figure out thisoutdoor thing because, uh, I
forgot, you know, so, um, that'sa lot different, man.
(13:28):
It's a, it's
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
a better wear your hat and put some SPF on or
something, man.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Yeah.
Well go, go to California asmany times as you can.
Right.
So like I said, we'll be outthere with you next, uh, I guess
that's next week.
And, uh, and then we'll be backin a couple of weeks later,
closer to your turf, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
I promise we'll bring you good weather when you
come out here, okay?
You have my word.
San Francisco will take care of
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
you.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to itbecause we have another meet
with major winds and stormspredicted.
And so, yeah, we'll see whathappens this weekend.
But last time we chatted, wewere talking about kind of like,
you know, running 101, likegetting started and, you know,
kind of the foundation of it,right?
Right.
Like the shoes, the mentaltricks and tips and that sort of
(14:18):
stuff.
And kind of run out a little bitof time there at the end and
really wanted to kind of carryon that conversation where we
talk about, you know, like,well, how do you how do you get
started as a runner?
Right.
Like if you're, you know, somesome people that are listening
or sitting there.
I mean, you and I both haveclients that that employ the run
walk method.
Right.
As they're trying to build fortheir first ever 5K all the way
(14:39):
up to.
to a marathon, right?
And, and so just kind of talkingthrough that idea of how do you
start, right?
Like, I mean, like it's, it'sfor us, we've been running, I
don't know when you startedrunning, but probably middle
school age for us, right?
Like we've been running a longtime.
If we take a year off or a monthoff, we kind of know how to get
back and get started.
It's like riding a bike, right?
(14:59):
What if you've never started?
And so, you know, just kind oftalking about that and, and just
kind of jumping into, hey, howdo you get started with
training?
How do you ease into that?
You know, what, what's kind ofsome good rules of thumb, all
that kind of good stuff.
And so what were your thoughtsthere?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so one of the questions Ilike to ask a new client or
honestly, even a new studentathlete, you know, is how long
have you been running for?
Right.
So for someone that's a firsttime runner, it might be zero
years, right?
Okay.
Well, at least we know, right.
But, but how long have you beenrunning for?
Tell us a little bit, tell me alittle bit about your, your
(15:37):
mileage history, right?
Are you running, have you beenrunning a lot?
Have you been, you know, puttingtogether 30 or 40 miles a week?
Are you a three miles a weektype of a person?
What is your history like?
And what is your injury historyas well in the sport?
And that usually kind of helpsus figure out a basic level of
where to start, right?
(15:59):
So for me, if someone's beenrunning for the past 20 years,
you know, I'm like, okay, you'rebasically a 20-year-old in the
sport, right?
You've been in it for a bit.
You understand, you know, theins and outs of it.
You've done a few races.
You know, that's great.
UNKNOWN (16:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
But, but yeah, I've had, I have a couple, I don't
have a lot, but I have a coupleof clients that are, that are
fairly new to running.
And so, or, or maybe they, theydid it and they took massive
amounts of time off.
Yeah.
I do have some of those.
Yeah.
When I say massive, I mean likeeight to 10 years.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Chunks of time.
And so, so they're almost,they're almost like an infant
sport.
Right.
And so, and learning about whatthey've done over the past, you
know, month to the, to the pastyear, what have you done?
Um, so that we know where wecan, where we can start from.
Right.
Yep.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
That's the value of having acoach, right.
(16:49):
Is they can really help, helpyou figure this out.
Um, yeah.
And so that's usually the firstquestion I ask.
And then, of course, if it'ssomebody that has not been
running at all or or it's beenseveral years and they're
basically at a walk level, theydon't feel comfortable jumping
into a straight run.
We kind of establish what arewhat are you comfortable doing
to start?
And I always go off a time whenit comes to bringing someone
(17:12):
into the fold with running.
Yeah.
If it's been someone that'sbeen.
just walking.
I don't, I don't have themrunning a mile straight.
We go off of time, right?
That's, that's how I do it.
And, but yeah, what about you?
Some of those clients, you know,has that been your strategy as
well?
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I remember, I think a yearago I was working with someone
writing an article for Runner'sWorld and it was that question.
It was like time versus mileage.
And I said, you know, if you'repretty seasoned and obviously
there's probably a kind ofdepends on how you're wired, but
pretty seasoned runners, uh,mileage is kind of my go-to new
(17:49):
runners.
It's, it's about time, right?
It's it's, and that could besegmented in one minute running
one minute walking or whatever,all the way up to five minutes
or a continuous run.
Right.
But, but I try to do, uh, I tryto do minutes.
I think for me, like when I havea client that's like starting,
Hey, I haven't done this or Ihaven't done this for a while.
It's been a long time, but treatme like I'm a beginner.
Uh, we try to be really, youknow, um, honest and realistic
(18:13):
with where we're at.
Right.
And I, I try to preach like thisidea of it's going to be a very
patient buildup, right?
Because what we don't want to dois get hurt.
A lot of times the clients thatI'll have reach out, say, you
know, I tried running, but ithurt my knees or hurt my shins
or my feet hurt.
And so a lot of times that'sprobably because we did too much
too soon.
And so we want to be, we justwant to be really patient with
(18:35):
that buildup and think in weeksor months, not days, right?
Like, you know, I've got oneclient I work with that I said,
hey, look, I'll be honest, likethis, this probably first couple
months you might just bebuilding up to like a 20 or 25
minute run.
And that might not sound verysexy, but you went from running
zero and we're trying to runthree or four times a week on
(18:56):
top of some cross training andsome other stuff.
But I think you hit it with,having a coach is very
important.
I think, I think the easiestthing, if you're trying to get
started with running is, is finda coach, whether that's, uh, uh,
you know, run Doyan with theworld-class expert run coaches
that are there, or, you know,finding a plan online or
something.
But I do think having a coachhelp with that is, is important
because we've dealt with it.
(19:17):
We we've dealt with beginners.
We've dealt with kids comingback or, you know, clients
coming back from injuries andhow to build back from that, you
know, like, and so I think, um,I think you nailed it there, but
I think really just talkingabout this idea of patience and
consistency over really bigefforts, you know, and for
(19:38):
beginners, a lot of times I'lltalk about this idea of, you
know, easy, relaxed,conversational.
You know, like if you were, ifyou, if you can't run with a
buddy or a friend and hold aconversation, then slow down.
Like you will eventually getfaster, but let's, let's relax.
Let's slow it down.
Let's, let's be, let's be.
(19:59):
And a lot of people sit thereand say like, easy, relax,
running.
That doesn't exist.
It does if you do it right.
And it might just involveslowing down.
But, but yeah, just trying to beeasy and conversational and
being relaxed with it versusVersus this is supposed to hurt.
This is supposed to be painful.
Um, I think running is supposedto be really enjoyable.
(20:20):
You know, there's some, there'ssome, obviously some hard days,
but I'd say like the majority ofyour running hopefully is
enjoyable.
Right.
And so we're trying to reallyteach what that feels like and
what that, what that means, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (20:32):
Yeah, no, I agree.
And, um, I think there's, uh,there's obviously with some
clients that have a little bitmore knowledge of the sport, we
can talk about percentage of VO2max effort, right?
Which I do with some of myclients.
I'll say, okay, we're lookingfor like a 60 to 70% of your VO2
max, you know, whatever you cando for about a two mile, 10
(20:53):
minute hard effort.
Like let's take a percentage ofthat.
Right.
But then I have some clientsthat that means nothing to them.
And I said, okay, here's whatwe're looking for.
Exactly what you said.
Comfortable, conversational,relaxed.
You, you, can carry on aconversation, but it's not,
maybe you're not able to givethis monologue for three minutes
(21:14):
and not have to, you know, skipa beat.
Like you're breathing a littlebit, but you're able to, you
know, have sentences come out ofyour mouth while you're running.
And so I think the effort isreally important.
Heart rate's tricky, I'd say,because Again, the only way
heart rate really works is ifeither you do a VO2 max test or
(21:37):
you somehow know your maximumheart rate and your resting
heart rate, which a lot ofpeople don't know their max.
They might know the resting, butthey don't know the max, right?
And so we're kind of guessing onthat.
And so sometimes I use that withclients, you know, that maybe we
have a rough idea and it givesthem another data point to work
with.
But oftentimes I have someclients that we just don't
really know.
We're not sure what their maxis.
(21:58):
And so it's a complete guess.
The 220...
minus your age thing is a is anice basic number but it can
definitely be off by 20 or even30 beats per minute so um so
yeah i don't typically focus onthat a lot um i think another
thing that uh is kind of aninteresting uh concept is you're
(22:18):
talking about building abuilding an athlete up from from
scratch right okay we'restarting up what do we do um
there's this This idea of nomore than five miles a week and
you got to do it for at leastthree weeks before you can
possibly move up.
Right.
And somewhere, you know, in thehistory of running, somebody
(22:41):
stated this and it has becomelaw.
You know, like this must be whatwe follow.
Period.
End of story.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
And I think it's a nice rule of thumb, but I don't
think it has to be that way.
Right.
I think.
Yeah.
Some people can jump up morethan others.
Some people, maybe they need togo slower, right?
But I don't think there's one...
way that you necessarily need todo it.
Um, so I think it's just goodfor our listeners to know it
does not have to be this fivemiles a week, do it for three
(23:10):
weeks, then you can go up andyou and I would have college
athletes.
It would take half a year to getanywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
And like the, you know, you, youhear the 10% rule, right.
Or whatever.
And sometimes that's probably avery good thing to follow.
Um, but not all the time.
I think that, uh, you would betaking forever building it and
You know, you and I will haveclients that say, hey, like I'm
signing on.
I've got a marathon in 12 weeks.
(23:36):
Well, the truth is, is like ifyou're going to complete that
marathon from scratch in 12weeks, we have to move you up
pretty quickly, at least for thelong run.
Exactly.
Like we have to do this if we'regoing to get you prepared to
finish 26.2 miles.
And so like you can't jump up.
the 10% or the five milesbecause your long run is
probably jumping up a mile totwo miles every week, right?
(23:57):
As we kind of get you to acertain marker to know that,
hey, look, you've gotten to, forme, it's usually 20 miles,
right?
Like that's kind of my marker.
If you can run 20 miles, we canget to 26.2, right?
Like we can build to 20 miles,but that's kind of my marker.
And some people do 16, somepeople do 18, some people do
more than that, right?
But I think there's got to, eachcoach probably has this marker
(24:18):
of knowing you've done this.
I think you can complete thisrace Thanks.
We can't get there if we'retaking it, you know, 10%, right?
You're going to take forever toget there.
And again, sometimes that'sneeded.
I've got a couple of clientswho've signed up recently and
it's like, hey, I have a year.
I want to do a hundred milerace.
First of all, that's a hundredmile race is not really running.
(24:39):
It's enduring.
There's a long time to get to ahundred miles, right?
Obviously we're not going tobuild to a hundred miles in
training, but like you got ayear to kind of get there.
But a lot of times we'll get,this past year I had two clients
that said i've got eight weeksto new york city marathon i've
got 12 weeks one had 12 weeksone had eight weeks and they had
the longest run that they haddone at the time was three to
(25:00):
four miles their goal was theirgoal was to complete the
marathon and so you knowobviously i couldn't get the one
to 20 miles but i kind of gotthem to but and they both
completed it and it was all goodand such but i think like it
kind of depends on what you'retraining for um but i i think
like When we're starting with aclient, again, not a veteran,
(25:21):
not somebody who's run 10marathons, it's been great, but
we're looking for, man, how fastcan I go next year?
When we're talking beginners,talking people who aren't coming
from that background of trainingat a high level, there's a lot
that I think they don't reallyquite realize.
I think one is like, and it'stough when you sign up for a
(25:43):
coach, when you're paying for acoach, you want the hard, you
want, this is what I signed upfor.
Right.
And the truth is, it's going totake a long time to get there.
If you're starting from scratch,a lot of it's going to be very
basic, very simple, but it's,it's, it's, it's, it's those
incremental steps that get youthere.
But I think like, there's thingsthat like, you know, you might
not think about like making sureyou're stretching, you know,
(26:04):
making sure you're incorporatingsome sort of strength work.
And obviously coaches can helpwith this, but like, you're
going to start feeling thingsyou haven't felt before if
you're not running, right?
And so, you know, we can't justtake days off.
You and I talked about thistoday, about this idea of
consistency and like not missingworkouts.
Well, how do we keep it going?
By stretching, by strengtheningthings that are starting to get
(26:24):
sore or to get fatigued orwhatever.
You know, like making sure we'rein good shoes.
You know, I think we're going totalk maybe a little bit about
shoes and some technology andstuff, but making sure you're in
good shoes, right?
Making sure you're in a pair ofshoes that is good for your foot
and your foot strike and yourmechanics.
And then really, as important asa good training program is and
(26:47):
all these other things, youcannot outrun good sleep, good
hydration, good nutrition,right?
And I think sometimes we think,okay, hey, I want to run a
marathon.
How many miles do I need to run?
Can you get me in shape?
And it's like, yeah, that's veryimportant.
You cannot replace the running,but there's a lot of things that
you can do to make the running alot easier on you and to to make
(27:10):
your build a lot smoother.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, totally.
Well, let me ask you this.
What are your thoughts on effortover pace in time?
What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Yeah, good question.
So I think if you're lookingjust to complete a distance, I
think you're running effort.
I think if you tell me, hey,look, I want to run a 5K under
25 minutes, or I want to run amarathon under three hours, at
that point we're training for apace.
Right.
And so I think it kind ofdepends on your goals.
Um, like if, even if you're abeginner and you say, like a lot
(27:48):
of times they'll say, Hey, Iwant to complete 26.2 miles.
I'd like to do it under fourhours.
There's a pace that you have torun to break four hours.
Right.
And so, um, so you definitelyhave to do some work at that
pace.
Um, you know, if we're talkingabout, uh, a hot, humid race or
a hilly race, and you don't havereally hills to train for
something, maybe we're talkingmore effort there.
Um, but typically, uh, I try tobreak it into...
(28:13):
they're trying to complete thedistance or they have a, they
have a time goal in mind.
And if they've got a time goalin mind, we're going to really
dive into some pace, some veryspecific things.
If they're just trying tocomplete it, I really try to
dive into effort, you know,whether that's because I don't
want to just give them easyrunning every day, right?
Even if they're a run walkmethod, I want some faster
(28:35):
running.
I want some harder running.
I don't want it to just be easyjogging all day.
Right.
And so that might, focus oneffort more than a pace.
But if you tell me, hey, look, Iwant to break 90 minutes for the
half marathon, we better berunning what that pace feels
like.
Otherwise, you're not going tobe prepared to break 90 minutes,
right?
(28:55):
You've got to have some specificpace work there, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Well, and I would say, so I agree with that.
You do have to be able to runcertain paces if you're going to
even fathom running it in arace, right?
Totally agree with that.
Yep.
I do think one important thingto factor into all of this is
just life's rhythms, thestressors that are in life.
And I think a lot of the peoplethat we work with and that are
(29:25):
listening to this podcast,they're not professional
runners, right?
They've got stuff going on.
They've got full-time job maybethey have a wife and children
and other stressors and maybethey have two jobs maybe they
have a commute maybe they livein a an area that is you know
ridiculously hot or ridiculouslycold and so there's all these
factors that come into playright and so i think it's
(29:47):
important to remember the effortat times because there just
might be a day where let's sayyou and i um you know, we, we
have a, I'm trying to think ofa, let's just, I'll come up with
a basic number.
They're trying to run 1845 for a5k.
Okay.
Well you and I know that sixminute mile pace.
(30:08):
Okay.
So we want them to do some, someintervals and we want them to
run them at 5k pace.
Okay.
So we're wanting them to dowhatever 800 meter intervals at
around, around a six minute milepace, whatever.
So maybe they, had a long day atwork.
Maybe they had to go take theirson or daughter somewhere.
(30:30):
And maybe they're finallygetting around to the workout at
five or six o'clock in theevening and it's cold.
And I don't know, whereverthey're running is not ideal.
And so in those instances, Iwould encourage clients to not
stress about the pace becausethe pace just may not be there
on the day.
right?
(30:50):
The ideal pace might be, Hey,let's run three flat for these
eight hundreds, but it just maynot be there because of the
fatigue that you've alreadyaccumulated throughout the day.
Right.
And we would say the same thingwith our collegiate athletes,
right?
Like there are days where, youknow, it's just not going to
happen because you can tell thatthey are feeling it.
So, so it's important while,while the pace, the pace is
(31:11):
important, right?
It's important for them to know,look, if the, if we're doing a
We're doing a VO2max workout andwe're trying to run 95% of your
VO2max effort I don't want youto run a hundred percent of
your, I don't want you tobasically race to accomplish
this time because now we've useda completely different energy
(31:33):
system.
We put ourself in debt.
We probably affected the rest ofthe week,
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
et
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
cetera.
So, so making sure like, again,this is the art of coaching,
right?
This is, this is where you and Ihave to use our best judgment.
And yes, a hundred percent.
There are times where we have topush our athletes to say, Hey,
you really need to learn thispace.
You need to understand it.
You need to feel it.
But also we have times where wehave to say, look, We're not
hitting the space today.
That's fine.
The effort is still important.
(31:58):
The benefit is still there if weachieve the effort on the day.
Focus on the effort.
The benefit will be there evenif the time– we don't get to
spend time at this pace.
That's unfortunate, right?
We want to do that.
But you're still gettingsomething out of the day.
And I think that's reallyimportant for listeners to
understand is you're going tohave those days.
(32:19):
It's okay.
There's that old 80-20 rule,right?
If 80% of the stuff you do isreally good, if 20% is average
at best or maybe bad, you'restill moving the needle.
You're still doing okay.
And just not being so slave tothe pace that I must hit it or
else, you know, it can be adangerous game to play.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
I've got a client, Santiago.
He was a guest on the podcast.
He has run a PR, I think, inevery marathon that we've worked
together with.
And it's been a good streak.
And I mean, he's in Ecuador.
It's sometimes very hot, veryhumid.
His locations are very hilly.
And there's a lot of times wherehe says, coach, I couldn't hit
(33:01):
the pace, but the effort wasthere, you know, and like.
And he knows– and again, he's aveteran runner.
He's been running a lot ofmarathons for a lot of years and
such.
But I say, hey, man, you knowwhat to do.
I'm not stressed about it.
I'm not stressed about it beinga couple seconds per kilometer
off or whatever.
Yeah, I agree with you.
All those days count, right?
(33:22):
Even those days where it feelslike we're just trudging through
the mud, it counts.
But I think as we're talkingabout this– You know, one of the
things I was going to ask you islike, and let's, you know, I
think the majority of ourlisteners either plan to run
marathons or run marathons, etcetera, right?
(33:43):
What do you think is the, and Iknow this is probably
circumstantial, but what do youthink is the minimum frequency?
So the amount of days that youcan run per week in order to run
a marathon?
good marathon again i don't knowwhat good means but but run it
strong run run the whole thingmaybe no walk breaks uh to
complete 26.2 miles i meanwhat's the what's the minimum
(34:05):
frequency what's the minimumlong run in in your mind because
if we're talking about beginnersthey're probably sitting here
saying like i don't have sevendays a week to run like right
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
yeah totally yeah no that's uh i think that's a great
question and yeah what what isconsidered a good marathon right
that's uh i i would say i wouldsay this if you if you can if
you're looking to complete amarathon and and primarily be
running the entire time
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
and
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
uh not be at the caboose of the race where you're
you're the you're the last guyor gal that's almost getting
picked up by the uh the trailthe trail car you know and
you're wanting to you know putin a good effort you're not
winning the race but you'recompleting it you feel good
about it it's a decent time umand uh you've you've for the
most part ran the whole thingobviously we you know you and i
(34:50):
both been been there where we'vehad that had our fair share of
walk breaks past mile 20 atleast i have
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
my first marathon i walked in so yeah it's brutal um
You should have ran, man.
You should have.
I walked the last 10K in of myfirst ever marathon.
So
SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
the
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
wheels came off quick.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
They sure did.
Geez.
Yeah.
I would say, I would say fourdays a week.
That's a, to me, that's a safenumber where you're wanting,
you're putting out this goal ofcompleting a solid marathon.
I think four days is important.
The long run, that's a trickything.
I would agree with you.
I think 20 miles, it soundsgood.
I think the other thing with 20miles is really when you think
(35:31):
about the goal of the long run.
We're trying to spend time onour feet.
We're trying to get time on ourfeet.
We're trying to get our body tolearn how to deal with the
energy needs deep into a racefor long periods of time when
your glycogen stores aredepleted.
How do we deal with that?
(35:52):
We need to feel that.
We need to learn how to refueland work through that period.
If you can get to 20 miles, formost people, That's going to be–
again, it depends on how fastyou're running.
But let's say you're just–you're trying to run just a
solid day.
That's going to be over twohours and 20 minutes.
It's going to be probably overtwo hours and 30 minutes for
(36:15):
just almost everybody listening.
Yeah.
That's a long amount of time,right?
So I think if you can get tothat, and the hope is obviously
you run the marathon and you canrun a little bit quicker than
you do on that long run,hopefully, then I think that
would prepare you well.
Yeah, I mean, I've definitelytrained for marathons and gotten
(36:36):
up to 22 or 23, but I thinkgetting up to 20 is good.
I do think you have to becareful, though, If you have
someone that's trying to do thisshort build, like you had
mentioned, a client, 12 weeks,they're starting from three
miles, the 20-mile is just notgoing to happen.
No, it's not.
Or if you get a client– and I'vehad this happen where– there was
(36:59):
a minor injury that occurred andwe were already kind of on a
tight schedule.
And then we lost two long runs.
What do we do?
Right.
Do we, do we just jump, jump thelong run up five miles so we can
kind of get caught up again?
Or, or do we just, uh, do wejust kind of accept that that's
the case and all right, we'regoing to get a quality 18 miler
and we're going to get two ofthose and we're going to feel
(37:20):
really good about it.
Um, so sometimes you have topivot like that, but I do think
getting up to 20 and ideally ifyou can get in a couple of
those, I think that's really,really beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so too.
I think, uh, you know, I, I hada guy, uh, one of my first
clients ever with Rundoy andgetting ready for New York city,
we get to 18 miles and then hepulls his calf and he, he
cross-trained cross-trainedcross-trained.
He comes back.
We're 10 days out from the race.
We had done the bulk of thetraining and he was like, I was
like, look, we're not trying togo more.
(37:51):
We're actually going to taperdown to health, you know, and
just going to, and he crushedit.
He did exactly what he wanted todo, ran his time.
And so sometimes, you know, lessis more kind of depending on the
situation and such, but I thinkless is more.
Yeah.
A lot of times.
Yeah.
A lot of times.
I mean, we, I think we probablyhold our athletes back a lot
more than, you know, they'reprobably wanting us to go harder
(38:12):
on them and stuff.
But with that, and I think thismay be the last, last thing that
we, we, we hit on just quickly,but like, you know, this idea of
less is more sometimes.
And this maybe can be a topic wedo later about, you know,
something completely different,but when to push yourself, when
to listen to your body, when torest, I think that's, I think
(38:32):
that's complicated.
So maybe we can't do it veryquickly, but like, Yeah.
I mean, someone new, it's hardto know when to listen to your
body because you're new.
It's going to hurt.
It's going to be painful.
You're going to be fatigued.
Like, so yeah.
Thoughts on that.
When is it okay to push?
When, when should you belistening to your body?
When should you choose rest overfighting to the fatigue?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Yeah.
If you're, if you're a newrunner, right.
Or you're starting a build, Ithink listening to your body
right off the bat is important,right?
Once you get more comfortable inyour own skin and you learn, you
know, what feels good, then Ithink you can learn where to
push.
I do not think the goal shouldbe, I'm going to push myself
right off the bat.
I think that will...
Number one, you might getinjured.
(39:11):
Number two, you might haterunning after that.
And number three, I think itcould just...
while it could be wildlyinaccurate as to what you're
capable of.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
It's better to start.
It's better to start cautiouslyand listen to your body, take
your time.
And once you establish a goodbase, then I think it's okay to
start pushing yourself a littlebit more and challenging
yourself.
But I, but I would not suggest aclient push right off the bat.
I think laying a basicfoundation, kind of feeling
(39:42):
what, what is a comfortableeffort.
And that way we, When you get tothe point where you're ready to
do workouts, you at least knowwhere your baseline is.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Yeah, I love that you said that because you will
learn what you can push through,right?
Like you will learn what isfatigue and what's soreness and
what's injury, right?
You'll learn that.
And it's better to be cautiousearly.
And so, yeah, great answerthere.
Great answer there.
Well, hey, this is fun.
Shout outs.
Any clients or anybody you wantto shout out?
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to one of my clients,Beck.
I've been working with Beck for,gosh, I think a few months now,
and...
Lives out on the East Coast.
He's actually getting ready forBoston.
He had a great marathon at CIM,Cal International.
Did a fantastic job.
(40:31):
The shout out is that he's justdone a great job of family,
full-time job, getting up at 0dark 30 to get his runs in and
Actually had a setback, had aninjury that just came out of
nowhere.
And so we had about a week ortwo where it was just like, all
right, what's our next stephere?
And he did a great job.
(40:51):
He kind of stayed the course,took his time.
He relinquished control over themileage and didn't stress about
that.
And now we're back on a goodpath.
So I'm very proud of him forkind of staying the course and I
think we'll be okay.
So yeah, how about you?
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
Yeah, Garrett, a client I've been working with
for, I mean, I don't know, ayear or two.
I can't remember.
It's been a long time.
He just ran a 50 miler this pastweekend, a race, and that's the
longest I've ever trainedsomeone for.
So he was my Guinea pig and hecrushed it.
I mean, to, I, to be so smoothfor 50 miles on sand, it was
(41:28):
like a beach run or something.
And so, um, but he's so good atmaking sure he has a plan like
nutrition and he just stuck toit.
And, and it just like when aclient is just so responsive and
lets you know how they'refeeling and how the workouts are
going.
And yeah, it just was, it was anAwesome build up.
We've had a, every race thathe's run, he's run a PR over the
(41:50):
last year.
And then he said, Hey, look,I've done this marathon thing.
I've gotten faster every time.
I want to do something thatreally challenges me.
And so he picked this 50 mile.
And I said, you sure you don'twant to do the 50 K, you know,
and no, I want to do a 50 miler.
And, and, uh, and he crushedthat this weekend.
And so we're going to, we'regoing to link up at some point
this week and figure out what'snext.
Cause he's got that, he's gotthat, that itch, you know, he
wants to, he wants to keep afterit.
(42:11):
And so, yeah, he crushed it, hada great, uh, 50 miler and, uh,
uh, out there, I think, uh, inSouth Carolina on the beaches
out there.
Good job, Garrett.
Nicely done.
Yeah, yeah, you crushed it.
Make your coach look good.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
I've never done it before, but Iwill see you next week in
(42:31):
California, man.
I'll be out there, and yeah,we'll be back next month with
another episode.
SPEAKER_00 (42:37):
That's right, my friend.
All right, well, take care.
Safe travels out here, and we'llsee you soon.
See you.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (42:42):
And that does it for this month's episode of the Next
Level Running Podcast.
I want to thank Coach SeanHenning as my co-host.
It's been fun getting a chanceto dive into this topic, running
101 over the last few months.
We're going to change gears alittle bit next month.
We're going to come back.
We're going to be diving intocommon running injuries and
(43:04):
maybe how to prevent and rehabthose, right?
So we don't want you gettinghurt.
So what can we do to maybe helpyou prevent that?
But if you're dealing with somethings, maybe there's some
things that we can do to helpyou rehab that.
So super excited for nextmonth's conversation.
Again, don't forget get to checkout the show notes.
There's good information there.
And thanks so much for joiningus again this month.
(43:25):
Thanks to Coach Sean for histime.
Hey, and until next time, have agreat run.
We'll see you then.
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