May 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Glenn Haussman's podcast No Vacancy is essential listening for anyone in the business, featuring notable names in the industry, coverage of major events, and reportage on ideas and economics. He joins us to talk luxury, labor costs, practicing the art of optimism in 2025, sustainability, and, of course, Phish.
https://www.instagram.com/travelingglenn/
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Episode Transcript
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Matt Brown (00:08):
Hi everybody, welcome to no Show.
I'm Matt Brown, joined asalways by Jeff Borman.
Oh, what to say about our guesttoday?
His interviews with hotelluminaries are a legend.
His understanding of how andwhy the hotel strategy and
branding in this world works isunparalleled.
His humor and approachabilitymake him one of the most
(00:29):
well-known, most sought-afterfigures in the business, and I
am of course, talking aboutadvocate, commentator, educator
and strategic advisor, glennHausman.
His podcast no Vacancy isessential listening for anyone
in the business and it featuresnotable names in the business,
and it features notable names inthe industry, coverage of major
events and reportage on ideasand economics.
(00:50):
He is a go-to expert onhospitality, featured in USA
Today, the New York Times, theWashington Post and numerous
other publications, and he isrecognized as one of the top 100
most inspirational people inglobal hospitality.
But here's what we find reallyspecial about Glenn.
All those other things areincredibly special, but here's
(01:10):
what we find so special aboutthis person is his absolute joy
of discovering the tactilepleasures of a hotel.
He's been in this business fora long time but he can still
marvel and revel in the textures, the design, the nooks and
crannies that make all thesespaces distinctive.
(01:30):
That comes through every show,every presentation and every
interaction with this man, glennHausman.
Welcome to no Show.
Glenn Haussmann (01:40):
Thank you so much, and let me say now I
better freaking deliver afterthat.
Matt Brown (01:46):
You better.
It's in the contract.
Glenn Haussmann (01:48):
Yeah, what we were discussing this.
I'm like you got to keepexpectations low.
Jeff Borman (01:52):
You know sucky parts you know, matt wrote the
first intro about Glenn Hausman,the Australian Olympic swimmer,
which was better in a lot ofways, which was better in a lot
of ways.
Matt Brown (02:03):
In a lot of ways.
Yeah.
Glenn Haussmann (02:10):
So my childhood friend's parents were in
Australia and he won some bigthing and they came home with
Glenn Hausman wins Olympics orgold medal or something like
that on a newspaper, which wasreally pretty awesome.
Jeff Borman (02:21):
You should have him on your show.
Matt Brown (02:24):
Hausman on houseman.
Jeff Borman (02:29):
The way I've been looking forward to this
interview is it's like I get tointerview the person who
interviews all the CEOs, so youessentially you saved me a lot
of time.
I just ask you the question andpretend it's like an
amalgamation of all the CEOsaround the business.
Are you cool with that?
I love it.
I think that's a great idea.
Becauseamation of all the CEOsaround the business.
Are you cool with that?
Glenn Haussmann (02:46):
I love it.
I think that's a great ideabecause, honestly, I'm doing the
same thing.
I go to talk to everybody atall these cocktail parties and
stuff like that, get all theintel and then pretend I know
what I'm talking about.
So it's a virtuous circle ofstealing from each other.
Jeff Borman (03:01):
I love it.
I'd like to start a little biton the current.
Chris Nassetta was veryoptimistic and we just went
through a round of earningscalls and he seems to stand
alone, at least in howpronounced he is about hey, this
is temporary and everybody takea pill.
Let's get through a quarter andthen we'll really worry if we
(03:22):
have to.
Right, when you talk toindustry leaders, what's the
sentiment really out there soundlike to you?
Glenn Haussmann (03:28):
All right.
So they are saying behindclosed doors, they are all
working to convince each otherit's a blip, blip, blip.
That's going on and it's anendless feedback loop on that.
My concern is that it's not ablip right now If you look at
what was going on in the market.
I don't want to be a pessimistover here, people, I want to be
(03:49):
a realist and that's why whenI'm out on the road, I'm
preaching got to get back tohardcore tactics, basics, all
that kind of stuff, because themarket was getting weak, the
numbers were all going down.
The consumers are feeling morepressed, I think, now than ever
before, and I think that startsto add up to problems.
(04:12):
I'll break it down a couple ofdifferent silos.
One me personally, myexperiences my travel expenses
have got to be up 75%, maybe100%, from two years ago, for
sure, that's one thing.
From two years ago, for surethat's one thing.
I paid $7 for a cup of coffee,plain black coffee at a major
casino resort.
(04:32):
I think that's really symbolicof how pricing is going.
I'm seeing more and morereports that people are looking
at fast food favorites as moreluxury items now and as treats,
as opposed to an inexpensive wayto eat.
So when you start to add all ofthis up, sit against the
backdrop of, tip everyone allthe time for no matter what they
do, I feel like everybody'sfeeling nickel and dimed, and
(04:55):
one of the ways that we can cutback on that is to cut back on
some trips or down trade andtype of hotels that we have, and
I'm really concerned.
We're at that point right now.
How much more can we get out ofthe consumer?
I'm going to say not much more.
So we've got to get a littlebit more clever.
We've got to get a little bitmore smart in order to be able
(05:16):
to make sure that this is a blipand not something much worse.
But, guys, it's a cyclicalbusiness.
I think things have beenartificially good for a long
time and we've got thisincredible resilience, so that's
good, but I do think we'regoing to have to take a deep
breath there.
Matt Brown (05:35):
No one here blinked an eye when you said $7 for a
cup of coffee in Vegas.
That feels like the mean.
That feels like oh wow, where'dyou get?
Where'd you get a $ coffee?
Glenn Haussmann (05:43):
Just plain black coffee, not a coffee drink
Not with five pounds of creamand caramel and stuff on it.
Jeff Borman (05:55):
I mean drip, drip period, the end On a recent
episode of no Vacancy, andactually we talked about this a
bit.
On something recently too, weshared similar sentiment about
the commoditization of luxury.
You mentioned $7 coffee.
It makes my head go right to aburning question that I think we
all have talking about whereluxury fits in the current
environment.
The $5,000 a night hotel isreally luxury and the $1,000 a
(06:20):
night hotel no longer is, orit's something along that scale.
What do you think this movementdoes to the biggest brands and
luxury?
Glenn Haussmann (06:27):
ritz-carlton four seasons huge opportunity
for them, and I think that'sexactly what jan said.
We've all observed everybody'sgoing hardcore into ultra luxury
because that group is immunefrom everything.
And we've all been watching andagain I don't want to be Mr
Sadsack over here, but if we'veall been watching, the United
(06:49):
States has basically beencoasting for the last 50, 60
years, not reinvesting ininfrastructure, not doing this,
not doing that, while at thesame time devaluing the working
class and creating a schismbetween the top 1% and the 1% of
the 1% and all of us normiesdown below.
(07:09):
So I think there's a lot ofreal situations in the general
structure of our society thatmay be a problem coming to roost
that we're not reallyaddressing, but when it comes to
the ultra luxury segment, baby,they got it all and no matter
what.
If we go into a depression now,they're going to scoop up more
(07:30):
and have more.
So the only way to really makeany real money, I think, in the
long term, is to find ways toget those people to empty out
their pockets, because moneydoesn't mean anything to them,
like it means to most people.
Jeff Borman (07:42):
Common folk can stay at a Ritz-Carlton now, and
25 years ago that wasn't intheir realm, that wasn't in the
thinking.
Glenn Haussmann (07:50):
And I think that says a lot for how a big
chunk of society has been liftedup for sure.
But man, if they're chargingand I'm not Ritz-Carlton in
particular but if you startcharging $500, $750 a night
unless you have a certain ilkbeyond a special occasion or a
splurge, I mean really, howrealistic can that be for most
(08:13):
people when you think about howmuch it really costs after
drinks and dinner and this andthat?
Jeff Borman (08:20):
Does it need to be realistic, though, or does
luxury I mean?
Until 25 years ago, all ofhuman history, that level of
luxury was only affordable tothe 1% of 1%.
All of a sudden especially inAmerica, but a bit globally now,
all of a sudden, 10% of thepopulation was able to get to
the luxury level.
Maybe it just needs to get backto luxuries defined as that
(08:41):
tiniest part at the very, verytop.
Glenn Haussmann (08:43):
Maybe, maybe it does.
And one comment that Jan saidis they're not really breaking
anything out to an ultra luxurysegment because it really starts
to kind of become amorphous.
What does that even really meanat some sort of level?
(09:03):
But Jeff will continue to begreat and aspirational is
fantastic.
I love, let's just say, one ofmy favorite places, the Fairmont
in Banff.
Right, no matter what theycharge, if I want to stay there,
I'm going to want to stay there.
So you know it is what it is.
Matt Brown (09:24):
I wonder what the next word will be Like, just
from the consumer side.
Everyone's telling me they'reluxury.
I get hit with luxury all thetime even though they're not
luxury.
Luxury apartments are opening upabsolutely everywhere
apartments, you know, went up inthree months and they're you
know, they're 700 square feetand they, you know.
So I'm wondering what that,what it's essentially become,
(09:47):
green it's.
It's become the catch-all thata lot of people in the industry
are using to define theexperience that they are
purporting to provide but don'tactually provide.
So I wonder what that nextlinguistic change will be when
we start moving away from having18 different scales of luxury
and then there's a new word thatdefines the rich, rich, rich.
Glenn Haussmann (10:08):
There's got to be, because we need to continue
to segment these things in orderto have a better understanding
of it.
There's a reason why what is it?
Eskimos have 32 different wordsfor snow?
Right, because there's so manydifferent types and variations
that you got to have a name forit all so we could all have a
common understanding of it.
So there's a lot of work to bedone.
I think in our English language, let's coin.
(10:29):
Maybe we should coin somephrases and then we can take
credit for it.
Sure.
Matt Brown (10:34):
Sure, speaking of green, jeff and I have been
talking a lot aboutsustainability, as has the whole
industry last couple of years,and in various studies it is
always in the top most importantsubjects in travel.
You may get a little researchbias there, because when people
are filling these things out,they want one of the top three
(10:56):
things that's important to themto be sustainability, but
nothing ever tangible reallyhappens.
Is that true?
I mean the shipping industry,you are correct.
Cruises, you know, just becamethe first to adopt a global
system that charges companiesfor emissions, and this is a
landmark moment for climateaccountability.
And if cruise ships can pay fortheir pollution, you know we
(11:18):
were wondering kind of whichindustry is next?
Can hotels ever?
Glenn Haussmann (11:22):
do this.
I mean, you know what aboutwind credits and stuff like that
?
It's just a three-card moneyshuffle, all of that kind of
stuff, in my opinion, right.
But when it comes tosustainability, in general,
people's hearts are definitelyin the right places and group
business has become somethingthat's essential, but I don't
think the everyday consumer isreally thinking about it in a
(11:44):
conscious level when they'resaying, click, I'm going to make
that reservation, as they dowhen they're in social circles
talking about it or askquestions about it, because
fundamentally, the hotel that Ithink people are going to stay
at every time is the one that'sin the right place with the
right amenities.
That's the right vibe.
(12:04):
And then the last thing ontheir list is going to be
sustainability.
I can't imagine somebody sayingthis hotel is perfect, but I'm
afraid their water use is just alittle too much.
I'm going to stay five milesaway and burn gas instead.
Matt Brown (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, there's a yeah, and I think business
travel would suffer from that.
You know especially.
It's like okay, seattleConvention Center, I'm ready,
let's go to the conference, butI'm staying at a sustainable
hotel in Olympia.
Right, so I'll be driving aboutan hour in to get to that Right
.
Glenn Haussmann (12:38):
I appreciate it .
But a lot of what we do in thehospitality industry and in the
world in general is a lot of funsemantics and playing games
with language and the way we dothings in order to think we're
doing something when we're notactually doing something, and I
enjoy pointing those things out.
Jeff Borman (12:56):
I kind of agree with both of you, except Matt.
You just gave the example ofbusiness travel.
I think that's the oneexception where there is a real
chance that behavior will beshaped, because it's determined
by somebody else.
Right?
If Deloitte decides that onlylead hotels are going to be in
their corporate program, theycan control that and they can
(13:17):
force that action.
And Glenn, to your point, assoon as there's a consumer who's
saying I'm going to stay acrossthe street or five miles away,
thank you very much.
Across the street, give me an$8 coffee instead of a $7 one
Right.
Glenn Haussmann (13:26):
Again, it's another situation that both
things can be right at the sametime.
There is a big segment ofhotels that must do everything
to be sustainable or elsethey're going to lose millions
of dollars in business.
But one of the things that wedo in the hospitality industry
is we tend to think that everyhotel is the same, but they're
not.
It's really fun as a sport totalk about this or that, but it
(13:51):
really comes down to thefundamental dynamics of every
single property, what theirpositioning is, what they're
trying to do, because a Super 8off I-95 is not going to be as
focused on sustainability forthe good of the universe as,
let's say, the Omni next to theconvention center.
Right, ED HARRISON.
Jeff Borman (14:10):
In summary, would I be accurately describing your
take on this, as it's ultimatelyup to the consumer and that
stands little chance?
Glenn Haussmann (14:19):
It is ultimately up to the consumer,
and currently it stands littlechance, and only because I've
seen this for 20 plus years nowand it seems we're always on the
precipice of this bigbreakthrough.
Maybe Generation Z, generationAlpha, will actually get us over
the hump.
But convenience trumps all andprice trumps all over everything
(14:46):
else.
I love sustainability.
I would like to take a momentto brag that we just adopted an
all-electric vehicle.
Right now, we've got a specialplug and everything here in the
house.
But when it comes to business,we have to be realistic as well,
and you have to understandwho's going to be paying to stay
in your hotel or eat in yourrestaurant and then put your
(15:09):
sustainability practice behindthat, or use sustainability as a
way to save money through taxcredits or just because it's a
cheaper way to do business inthe long run.
Jeff Borman (15:17):
There's a big Europe parallel where I think
those things.
There's proof to what you said,where there is more
accountability in Europe aroundthe subject.
Now, whether the measuresactually support what they think
they're doing is totallydifferent, debatable, but
they've got metrics, they've gotgoals and generally seem to
have a more conscious consumermaking those choices.
Glenn Haussmann (15:40):
Totally.
I'm a big believer in themarket drives everything and
sustainability will eventuallytake off when it is cheaper to
do the right thing than to cutcorners, and it will happen.
It just takes time and I'venoticed with everything in life.
It takes a lot longer than weall just imagined it would
emergently.
Jeff Borman (16:00):
Sticking with follow the dollar here.
Labor costs dangerously higherthan five years ago.
Do you think that today's wagegrowth and I'm talking about
more like the hourly, the lowermanagement level do you think
today's wage growth and theaggressiveness of the current
labor market is a result ofexcessive executive earnings?
And I'll give you a second hereHilton, hyatt, marriott, execs
(16:23):
pulled around 50 million bucks ayear.
Last year, glenn Fogle atBooking different Glenn, $100
million.
You were probably $250.
Glenn Fogle $125.
Glenn Haussmann (16:33):
Yeah, I made $75 last year, but Dad Lehi blew
it all in a casino.
So there's that.
Jeff Borman (16:42):
I'm a hardcore free marketer, but I also see the
rub here.
When the average worker has awage capped at 3% a year, not
keeping up with inflationrecently, and then astronomic
figures like these are madepublic, my question is do you
see a correlation?
Glenn Haussmann (17:03):
And then astronomic figures like these
are made public.
My question is do you see acorrelation between the
conversation driving wage growthat the bottom and the kind of
astronomical rise that'shappened in the last five years
at the top, typically um, inthat level of employment through
all strata of society?
I think that they're not reallypaying attention to what's
going on with the ceos like uhhey, that specific dude is
making a lot of money, so Ishould be making more money.
(17:25):
But to go back to what I wassaying about this schism in
society, I think that that isdefinitely permeating through
with the way people feel andthat there's like these people
at the top are making so muchmoney, I should be getting my, I
should be getting my fair sharetoo, and they're not.
So this starts to worry me on amore macro issue than a few
(17:49):
dollars more per hour.
Jeff Borman (17:51):
You know, we kind of saw this a little bit in the
08 to 10 recession in banking.
There was a lot of public angerabout bailing out banks, as
bankers were collecting massivepayouts, yeah, but they always
won.
I wonder if that's nothappening in our world.
If you're the union rep and yourepresent 100,000 employees
across New York City and youstart quoting numbers like this,
(18:14):
no, we really do deserve ourseven, and I'm not your union
advocate.
I'm not the right one.
It's not my fight, by the way,either direction.
Ok, but I would think there hasto be some pent up angst when
the people who were furloughedduring covid also saw that the
LTI gained at the top of thefood chain was their best years
(18:36):
ever.
Glenn Haussmann (18:37):
Right, exactly, exactly.
And this is the one thing thatreally frustrates me is that
people say inflation, inflation,inflation and then corporate
profits are at record highs.
So what's the truth, right?
So what's the truth right?
And again I just go back to I'mvery concerned that this split
(18:59):
in society is becoming morepronounced and more dangerous to
our economy, and maybe beyondthat, as we continue to move
forward into summer and fall, aswe continue to move forward
into summer and fall.
So I don't mean to be again aDebbie Downer, but there could
(19:19):
be some rough times ahead, but Ithink that the people at the
top are going to be just finespending money in luxury hotels.
Jeff Borman (19:24):
They'll still say it the Amman.
Glenn Haussmann (19:26):
Totally yeah.
I'm not even allowed to say it.
I don't make enough money.
Matt Brown (19:31):
Glenn, you mentioned on no Vacancy recently that you
lament being traveled out atthe moment.
I do.
Are there market trends orsentiment that makes you fret
that?
Maybe you're not alone in that?
Do you sense a kind of fatigueout there?
Glenn Haussmann (19:47):
I think number one.
It has to do with the fact thatI'm getting older and I've been
doing it for 30 years.
So I feel that my statement isvery much of me as a human being
, and maybe people who have beenat it for 30 years as well, and
me and these others that I feelkind of similar.
We love being places and beingwith people, just don't like
(20:10):
driving to the airport andparking and waiting online for
the TSA and waiting for yourzone to be called and all of
that stuff, you know, and thelounge is too crowded because
you thought you know and youthought it was going to be a
respite.
That's the thing that's reallybecoming more of an issue, I
think, for myself and people ofmy you know ilk, not the travel
(20:30):
itself.
Jeff Borman (20:32):
What concerned me about it a couple of years back,
whenever well, really, wheneveryone was recovering from the
pause in travel 21, 22,whatever speaking with a friend
of mine well up in a majorconsultancy and she was saying
that the people of ourgeneration loved being on the
road and the people of theyoungest generation coming into
(20:55):
their workforce as youngconsultants, the road warriors,
the Sunday through Thursdaytypes.
That generation doesn't want tobe on the road in the way that
those prior did.
That's a concern for me as Ilook at the whole way our
business has been built.
Glenn Haussmann (21:10):
Something doesn't make sense to me there,
jeff, because every piece ofevidence that I've seen is
younger generations are more theexperienced generation, they're
moving more away from things.
Sure, there's the tiktokculture of, uh hey, look at how
I'm living, I'm so rich, andstuff like that.
But I think fundamentallypeople would rather go to a
(21:31):
music festival than buy a Birkinbag or whatever the famous bag
is of the day, right.
So I don't get why peoplewouldn't want to travel as
consultants to me and maybe just, oh man, get off my long glen
over here.
But traveling at someone else'sdime to cool different places
(21:53):
and eating in great restaurantsand meeting new people in your
20s and 30s freaking, come on.
Jeff Borman (21:59):
What could be better Come?
Glenn Haussmann (22:01):
on.
Yeah, you want to be stuckbehind a desk every single day.
You complain about that too,because you want to be remote
and doing things and mix yourlifestyle.
So that's why I don't get that.
I think that a great salvationfor the hospitality industry are
going to be great companiesthat understand that digital
nomad and really kind of puttingthe pieces together.
(22:22):
And it's probably one of thereasons why Marriott bought
Simpson M, for example, overthere.
Jeff Borman (22:28):
I just think they were bored and sitting on a
mountain of cash.
Glenn Haussmann (22:33):
You got to deliver to those shareholders.
Continue to expand.
Jeff Borman (22:37):
Well, yeah, you got to make sure it doesn't come
out in dividends.
Better spend it faster.
Matt Brown (22:40):
Do you think any of it is related to, okay,
millennials.
They now have 10 year olds,they now have kids who are
growing out of high school,practically True Gen Z, gen
Alpha, and it's like the demandsit's.
It's sort of like a friend ofmine told me this about golf a
while ago, even though golf kindof waxes and wanes depending on
a lot of factors.
But it's like gone are the daysfrom like the 70s where it's
(23:07):
like dad leaves at 8 am andcomes back a little tipsy at 6
pm.
It's like, no, that our familyschedules are just not that way
and that the old time.
Ok, honey, I'm off to theairport to go on my consulting
visit to Dallas for four days.
Good luck with the kids andI'll see you on Saturday morning
.
That dynamic has just changed,both family-wise and personally,
for people and that has led tomaybe not for exotic conferences
(23:30):
like oh great, this will be agreat vacation, let's go, and
then they bring the family outafter.
But that kind of that weeklygrind of travel that used to
dominate, I feel, is looked ataskew by younger generations.
Glenn Haussmann (23:42):
It may very well be true, but again, I think
we're just making broad basedstatements and all of these
things can be true amongstdifferent subsets of the
population at the same time,which will still keep you right
and hotels satisfied right.
One of the things that I'veseen over the last 30 years is
as the hospitality industry hasgrown.
(24:04):
It's grown because our numberone, our society, has grown in
size and also in desire totravel more.
Plus, we've had a great shift.
So as long as population keepsexpanding and all of that, I
think there will still be a lotof travel and those that could
connect work to play, I think,are going to be in a great shape
(24:27):
as this travel thing starts tocontinue to cost more money.
So I feel like I've said awhole lot of declarations and
then walk them back all in thesame conversation, but I do
think it's all true, dependingon the angle you're looking at
it.
Jeff Borman (24:42):
That's right.
If you predict a marketcontraction every single day,
you will eventually be correct.
Glenn Haussmann (24:47):
That's right, and one of the things I love
about making predictions is Ican make a thousand of them and
no one's going to call me on it,but if I get one right, I can
pull a clip and go see.
I told you, yeah, that was verypresidential of you.
Thank you very much.
Sadly, I'm not smart enough toactually record any of my
proclamations, so if I was right, no one will know.
Jeff Borman (25:07):
Yeah, Shep Gordon, the guy who launched Emeril
Lagasse, essentially created theceleb chef putting cooking on
TV.
Yeah, bam, bam yeah.
In a certain way, every cheftoday is afforded more creative
license and a little morerespect.
Because of what Shep did.
Yeah, the entire elevation ofculinary standards in America
(25:31):
has a lot to do with him makingcooking as entertainment.
Why the long soliloquy aboutChef Gordon?
Because the hospitality needsthis, glenn, and as our leading
voice in the business, I'masking you will you be our Chef
Gordon?
Glenn Haussmann (25:48):
I totally accept the challenge and I will
do the old improv.
Yes, and in fact tomorrow, aswe're recording this, I'm off to
the Memphis in May competitionwhere I'm joining a barbecue pit
team to uh, to, to help them doa cook.
So, yes, I am in man and I willtell you.
(26:08):
Speaking of Emeril, you alsogot to give credit to a Wolfgang
Puck for opening Spago in LasVegas, which I think between
those two events and all of ourfood TV stuff, really changed
the way all of society interactswith with food and it's made
everyone really in a betterplace.
Jeff Borman (26:27):
Do you think there's a place in that travel
channel environment, foodnetwork environment for more
hospitality, meaning hotelcentric style entertainment?
Your former partner didsomething.
Glenn Haussmann (26:39):
No, yeah, anthony and I have trouble
getting our schedules together,but we're going to be moving to
more instead of a live orrecorded schedule, so we could
try to align our schedulesbetter in order to have him do
more shows.
So look out for that.
Yeah, I think we're seeing abig seismic shift in the
marketplace and, while one of mydreams may have been at one
(27:01):
point to get a show on TravelChannel or one of those other
things, I don't think they'rereally relevant to the
conversation right now.
We've really moved into a worldwhere you can be your own
creator and have incrediblesuccess both notoriety and
financial with tools likeYouTube.
I'm more of a LinkedIn guy, but,man, if I was coming up today,
(27:23):
I would find a fun, interestingangle and do it through YouTube.
There are so many greattravel-related shows out there.
I'd love to get involved insomething that's a little bit
more wonky, like you know mywalk and talk videos with casino
executives and stuff like that.
I'd like to see those take off,but there's so many great
(27:44):
people out there doing amazingcontent.
That's right for the world thatwe live in today.
Matt Brown (27:49):
Speaking of casino executives, time for the
lightning round.
First up, when you corral manyCEOs and C-level guests, how do
you get good answers from themversus ads?
Dude, these very, very nicepeople, very smart, and you know
(28:12):
what.
Things are great, the quarterlyis great, occupancy is great,
the brand is great, everythingis just so, so great.
And how do you get them to kindof come back down to earth and
give you the real nitty gritty?
Sometimes?
Glenn Haussmann (28:25):
Oh, blackmail.
I got files on these people,you know.
Know, uh, I I'll the.
The real answer is I'm not ahundred percent sure.
There's something about mypersonality that, I'm told,
makes people feel reallycomfortable and people have a
(28:45):
way of sharing things with me,either on air or randomly on a
subway.
Uh, that you wouldn't expect.
So I don't know, I just sendoff.
I guess I just send good onpositive energy that you
wouldn't expect.
So I don't know, I just sendoff.
I guess I just send good,positive energy that you're in a
safe space and I'm on your side, kind of vibes and people are
willing to share more than theyotherwise would have.
When their defenses are up andthey're worried that they're
(29:06):
gonna be caught in a gotcha sortof game, I'm not here.
My mantra is educate, empower,entertain.
I want people to kick ass.
I don't want to challengesomebody.
I don't care about politics andgetting involved in any of that
kind of mess or hospitalitypolitics.
I just want people to learn andbe more successful in their
(29:28):
business and be able to providefor their families and stay at
the Ritz-Carlton whenever theheck they feel like it.
Jeff Borman (29:33):
Provide for their families and stay at the
Ritz-Carlton whenever the heckthey feel like it.
Is there anything particularlyunique about being a media voice
in hospitality versus otherindustries?
Glenn Haussmann (29:41):
Yeah, we got the coolest freaking business
there is.
Man, I think about this.
How freaking lucky I am to bein this.
I can't imagine you would havethe story possibilities and the
visual possibilities in so manyother industries.
Chemical engineering todaymight be like a cool publication
to work for, but that's not myvibe, right.
(30:05):
Other than maybe some industrymusic magazines.
I can't really think ofanything that's more exciting
and interesting.
That's so layered.
You know that you could tellgreat stories, so I got to
figure that they're happy inwhatever industries they are,
because they don't know abouthow amazing our industry is.
Right, because our industry isevery industry there is you
(30:27):
mentioned design, technology,real estate, customer behavior
right, so many different areas.
It's just insane.
No matter what you want to talkabout, we can talk about it in
a hospitality context, so thecontent is endless.
But how much can you reallytalk about new pest control,
chemicals or something?
Jeff Borman (30:47):
like that, not for very long, no, but you mentioned
the music industry beinganother one Personal question.
Are you a Phish fan?
But you mentioned the musicindustry being another one
Personal question.
Glenn Haussmann (30:54):
Are you a Phish fan?
Worst fan ever, and I know thatbecause I've seen more than 200
shows, so I'm going to keepgoing back until they can prove
themselves.
30-something years trying tofigure this out, yeah, no,
that's my jam, so to speak.
Jeff Borman (31:09):
Yeah, Pun intended, your signature, sign, sign off
as a direct fish, yes, fish line.
I had no idea and listen, it'skind of like this can't be a
mistake.
Matt Brown (31:23):
That was not a mistake you two are birds of a
feather yeah, man, I will tellyou uh, I had.
Glenn Haussmann (31:35):
Uh, I don't need to ask the question, but
one of the best moments thatI've ever had in my entire
career was uniting three of themost important things to me.
That makes me of my essenceFish, my love of how awesome Las
Vegas is.
My love of how awesome LasVegas is and how happy I am with
(31:58):
how much work I put into mycareer every single day.
And I'm sitting there, theguest of a Venetian, at the
luxury box at sphere, on thefirst night of the first four
shows of all, and I had all fourthere.
So I was there that first nightand I'm like I can't believe
that I'm getting to see myfavorite band and my favorite
city in this most incrediblevenue as a thank you from a
(32:21):
resort because I helped them outin a in a non-expecting way.
I was just during COVID.
I was just sending out apositive vibe to everybody and
they wanted to say thank you tome.
So it was like so incrediblethat that all came together and
did you get to go to all four?
Jeff Borman (32:38):
I did not go to all four, but I was there in the
beginning run and I had asimilar but totally opposite
experience about a month ago.
The band was on a brief breakand, you may remember, trey was
doing some acoustic shows.
Uh-huh, I got a notice from afriend that one of the hotels
that I work very closely withtraded a private show for 200
(33:00):
out on a beach and somehow thesefools didn't remember to invite
me or even inform me that itwas a Water Rail Foundation
production Could have been thereBeach in Puerto Rico, just Trey
and 199 other people.
Glenn Haussmann (33:15):
Wow, that is crazy.
I would have loved that.
I actually have on my wallright there a little Trey thing.
He drew a little picture for meand wished my wife and I we
were engaged at the timecongratulations on getting
married and stuff like that.
We saw him at Radio City MusicHall when he was doing a run
(33:36):
there in 2001.
I think it was.
Yeah, I made the smart movehorrible move of getting my
family all involved in it.
My wife's liked it, but I gotboth my 21-year-old boys
involved in it now and I wasgoing to take all four of us to
Forest Hills but they're lookingfor $500 a seat, right, and
this gets back to our wholeconversation.
(33:58):
I would love to take my familyto go see a fish show which I
love for 30 years, the four ofus all together, but it's $2,000
just for the tickets, plus fees, plus everything else.
Come on, Come on.
I can't rationalize that andI'm your biggest player here.
(34:20):
So between that and the $7 cupof coffee, ethos, it's like.
This is why I'm worried.
I just feel like I'm out.
Matt Brown (34:27):
Or, as I call them, ultra luxury prices.
Really Legend in the making.
Glenn Hausman, thank you somuch for being part of no show,
appreciate you.
Hi everybody, welcome to no Show.
I'm Matt Brown, joined asalways by Jeff Borman.
Oh, what to say about our guesttoday?
His interviews with hotelluminaries are a legend.
His understanding of how andwhy the hotel strategy and
branding in this world works isunparalleled.
His humor and approachabilitymake him one of the most
(00:29):
well-known, most sought-afterfigures in the business, and I
am of course, talking aboutadvocate, commentator, educator
and strategic advisor, glennHausman.
His podcast no Vacancy isessential listening for anyone
in the business and it featuresnotable names in the business,
and it features notable names inthe industry, coverage of major
events and reportage on ideasand economics.
(00:50):
He is a go-to expert onhospitality, featured in USA
Today, the New York Times, theWashington Post and numerous
other publications, and he isrecognized as one of the top 100
most inspirational people inglobal hospitality.
But here's what we find reallyspecial about Glenn.
All those other things areincredibly special, but here's
(01:10):
what we find so special aboutthis person is his absolute joy
of discovering the tactilepleasures of a hotel.
He's been in this business fora long time but he can still
marvel and revel in the textures, the design, the nooks and
crannies that make all thesespaces distinctive.
(01:30):
That comes through every show,every presentation and every
interaction with this man, glennHausman.
Welcome to no Show.
Glenn Haussmann (01:40):
Thank you so much, and let me say now I
better freaking deliver afterthat.
Matt Brown (01:46):
You better.
It's in the contract.
Glenn Haussmann (01:48):
Yeah, what we were discussing this.
I'm like you got to keepexpectations low.
Jeff Borman (01:52):
You know sucky parts you know, matt wrote the
first intro about Glenn Hausman,the Australian Olympic swimmer,
which was better in a lot ofways, which was better in a lot
of ways.
Matt Brown (02:03):
In a lot of ways.
Yeah.
Glenn Haussmann (02:10):
So my childhood friend's parents were in
Australia and he won some bigthing and they came home with
Glenn Hausman wins Olympics orgold medal or something like
that on a newspaper, which wasreally pretty awesome.
Jeff Borman (02:21):
You should have him on your show.
Matt Brown (02:24):
Hausman on houseman.
Jeff Borman (02:29):
The way I've been looking forward to this
interview is it's like I get tointerview the person who
interviews all the CEOs, so youessentially you saved me a lot
of time.
I just ask you the question andpretend it's like an
amalgamation of all the CEOsaround the business.
Are you cool with that?
I love it.
I think that's a great idea.
Becauseamation of all the CEOsaround the business.
Are you cool with that?
Glenn Haussmann (02:46):
I love it.
I think that's a great ideabecause, honestly, I'm doing the
same thing.
I go to talk to everybody atall these cocktail parties and
stuff like that, get all theintel and then pretend I know
what I'm talking about.
So it's a virtuous circle ofstealing from each other.
Jeff Borman (03:01):
I love it.
I'd like to start a little biton the current.
Chris Nassetta was veryoptimistic and we just went
through a round of earningscalls and he seems to stand
alone, at least in howpronounced he is about hey, this
is temporary and everybody takea pill.
Let's get through a quarter andthen we'll really worry if we
(03:22):
have to.
Right, when you talk toindustry leaders, what's the
sentiment really out there soundlike to you?
Glenn Haussmann (03:28):
All right.
So they are saying behindclosed doors, they are all
working to convince each otherit's a blip, blip, blip.
That's going on and it's anendless feedback loop on that.
My concern is that it's not ablip right now If you look at
what was going on in the market.
I don't want to be a pessimistover here, people, I want to be
(03:49):
a realist and that's why whenI'm out on the road, I'm
preaching got to get back tohardcore tactics, basics, all
that kind of stuff, because themarket was getting weak, the
numbers were all going down.
The consumers are feeling morepressed, I think, now than ever
before, and I think that startsto add up to problems.
(04:12):
I'll break it down a couple ofdifferent silos.
One me personally, myexperiences my travel expenses
have got to be up 75%, maybe100%, from two years ago, for
sure, that's one thing.
From two years ago, for surethat's one thing.
I paid $7 for a cup of coffee,plain black coffee at a major
casino resort.
(04:32):
I think that's really symbolicof how pricing is going.
I'm seeing more and morereports that people are looking
at fast food favorites as moreluxury items now and as treats,
as opposed to an inexpensive wayto eat.
So when you start to add all ofthis up, sit against the
backdrop of, tip everyone allthe time for no matter what they
do, I feel like everybody'sfeeling nickel and dimed, and
(04:55):
one of the ways that we can cutback on that is to cut back on
some trips or down trade andtype of hotels that we have, and
I'm really concerned.
We're at that point right now.
How much more can we get out ofthe consumer?
I'm going to say not much more.
So we've got to get a littlebit more clever.
We've got to get a little bitmore smart in order to be able
(05:16):
to make sure that this is a blipand not something much worse.
But, guys, it's a cyclicalbusiness.
I think things have beenartificially good for a long
time and we've got thisincredible resilience, so that's
good, but I do think we'regoing to have to take a deep
breath there.
Matt Brown (05:35):
No one here blinked an eye when you said $7 for a
cup of coffee in Vegas.
That feels like the mean.
That feels like oh wow, where'dyou get?
Where'd you get a $ coffee?
Glenn Haussmann (05:43):
Just plain black coffee, not a coffee drink
Not with five pounds of creamand caramel and stuff on it.
Jeff Borman (05:55):
I mean drip, drip period, the end On a recent
episode of no Vacancy, andactually we talked about this a
bit.
On something recently too, weshared similar sentiment about
the commoditization of luxury.
You mentioned $7 coffee.
It makes my head go right to aburning question that I think we
all have talking about whereluxury fits in the current
environment.
The $5,000 a night hotel isreally luxury and the $1,000 a
(06:20):
night hotel no longer is, orit's something along that scale.
What do you think this movementdoes to the biggest brands and
luxury?
Glenn Haussmann (06:27):
ritz-carlton four seasons huge opportunity
for them, and I think that'sexactly what jan said.
We've all observed everybody'sgoing hardcore into ultra luxury
because that group is immunefrom everything.
And we've all been watching andagain I don't want to be Mr
Sadsack over here, but if we'veall been watching, the United
(06:49):
States has basically beencoasting for the last 50, 60
years, not reinvesting ininfrastructure, not doing this,
not doing that, while at thesame time devaluing the working
class and creating a schismbetween the top 1% and the 1% of
the 1% and all of us normiesdown below.
(07:09):
So I think there's a lot ofreal situations in the general
structure of our society thatmay be a problem coming to roost
that we're not reallyaddressing, but when it comes to
the ultra luxury segment, baby,they got it all and no matter
what.
If we go into a depression now,they're going to scoop up more
(07:30):
and have more.
So the only way to really makeany real money, I think, in the
long term, is to find ways toget those people to empty out
their pockets, because moneydoesn't mean anything to them,
like it means to most people.
Jeff Borman (07:42):
Common folk can stay at a Ritz-Carlton now, and
25 years ago that wasn't intheir realm, that wasn't in the
thinking.
Glenn Haussmann (07:50):
And I think that says a lot for how a big
chunk of society has been liftedup for sure.
But man, if they're chargingand I'm not Ritz-Carlton in
particular but if you startcharging $500, $750 a night
unless you have a certain ilkbeyond a special occasion or a
splurge, I mean really, howrealistic can that be for most
(08:13):
people when you think about howmuch it really costs after
drinks and dinner and this andthat?
Jeff Borman (08:20):
Does it need to be realistic, though, or does
luxury I mean?
Until 25 years ago, all ofhuman history, that level of
luxury was only affordable tothe 1% of 1%.
All of a sudden especially inAmerica, but a bit globally now,
all of a sudden, 10% of thepopulation was able to get to
the luxury level.
Maybe it just needs to get backto luxuries defined as that
(08:41):
tiniest part at the very, verytop.
Glenn Haussmann (08:43):
Maybe, maybe it does.
And one comment that Jan saidis they're not really breaking
anything out to an ultra luxurysegment because it really starts
to kind of become amorphous.
What does that even really meanat some sort of level?
(09:03):
But Jeff will continue to begreat and aspirational is
fantastic.
I love, let's just say, one ofmy favorite places, the Fairmont
in Banff.
Right, no matter what theycharge, if I want to stay there,
I'm going to want to stay there.
So you know it is what it is.
Matt Brown (09:24):
I wonder what the next word will be Like, just
from the consumer side.
Everyone's telling me they'reluxury.
I get hit with luxury all thetime even though they're not
luxury.
Luxury apartments are opening upabsolutely everywhere
apartments, you know, went up inthree months and they're you
know, they're 700 square feetand they, you know.
So I'm wondering what that,what it's essentially become,
(09:47):
green it's.
It's become the catch-all thata lot of people in the industry
are using to define theexperience that they are
purporting to provide but don'tactually provide.
So I wonder what that nextlinguistic change will be when
we start moving away from having18 different scales of luxury
and then there's a new word thatdefines the rich, rich, rich.
Glenn Haussmann (10:08):
There's got to be, because we need to continue
to segment these things in orderto have a better understanding
of it.
There's a reason why what is it?
Eskimos have 32 different wordsfor snow?
Right, because there's so manydifferent types and variations
that you got to have a name forit all so we could all have a
common understanding of it.
So there's a lot of work to bedone.
I think in our English language, let's coin.
(10:29):
Maybe we should coin somephrases and then we can take
credit for it.
Sure.
Matt Brown (10:34):
Sure, speaking of green, jeff and I have been
talking a lot aboutsustainability, as has the whole
industry last couple of years,and in various studies it is
always in the top most importantsubjects in travel.
You may get a little researchbias there, because when people
are filling these things out,they want one of the top three
(10:56):
things that's important to themto be sustainability, but
nothing ever tangible reallyhappens.
Is that true?
I mean the shipping industry,you are correct.
Cruises, you know, just becamethe first to adopt a global
system that charges companiesfor emissions, and this is a
landmark moment for climateaccountability.
And if cruise ships can pay fortheir pollution, you know we
(11:18):
were wondering kind of whichindustry is next?
Can hotels ever?
Glenn Haussmann (11:22):
do this.
I mean, you know what aboutwind credits and stuff like that
?
It's just a three-card moneyshuffle, all of that kind of
stuff, in my opinion, right.
But when it comes tosustainability, in general,
people's hearts are definitelyin the right places and group
business has become somethingthat's essential, but I don't
think the everyday consumer isreally thinking about it in a
(11:44):
conscious level when they'resaying, click, I'm going to make
that reservation, as they dowhen they're in social circles
talking about it or askquestions about it, because
fundamentally, the hotel that Ithink people are going to stay
at every time is the one that'sin the right place with the
right amenities.
That's the right vibe.
(12:04):
And then the last thing ontheir list is going to be
sustainability.
I can't imagine somebody sayingthis hotel is perfect, but I'm
afraid their water use is just alittle too much.
I'm going to stay five milesaway and burn gas instead.
Matt Brown (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, there's a yeah, and I think business
travel would suffer from that.
You know especially.
It's like okay, seattleConvention Center, I'm ready,
let's go to the conference, butI'm staying at a sustainable
hotel in Olympia.
Right, so I'll be driving aboutan hour in to get to that Right
.
Glenn Haussmann (12:38):
I appreciate it .
But a lot of what we do in thehospitality industry and in the
world in general is a lot of funsemantics and playing games
with language and the way we dothings in order to think we're
doing something when we're notactually doing something, and I
enjoy pointing those things out.
Jeff Borman (12:56):
I kind of agree with both of you, except Matt.
You just gave the example ofbusiness travel.
I think that's the oneexception where there is a real
chance that behavior will beshaped, because it's determined
by somebody else.
Right?
If Deloitte decides that onlylead hotels are going to be in
their corporate program, theycan control that and they can
(13:17):
force that action.
And Glenn, to your point, assoon as there's a consumer who's
saying I'm going to stay acrossthe street or five miles away,
thank you very much.
Across the street, give me an$8 coffee instead of a $7 one
Right.
Glenn Haussmann (13:26):
Again, it's another situation that both
things can be right at the sametime.
There is a big segment ofhotels that must do everything
to be sustainable or elsethey're going to lose millions
of dollars in business.
But one of the things that wedo in the hospitality industry
is we tend to think that everyhotel is the same, but they're
not.
It's really fun as a sport totalk about this or that, but it
(13:51):
really comes down to thefundamental dynamics of every
single property, what theirpositioning is, what they're
trying to do, because a Super 8off I-95 is not going to be as
focused on sustainability forthe good of the universe as,
let's say, the Omni next to theconvention center.
Right, ED HARRISON.
Jeff Borman (14:10):
In summary, would I be accurately describing your
take on this, as it's ultimatelyup to the consumer and that
stands little chance?
Glenn Haussmann (14:19):
It is ultimately up to the consumer,
and currently it stands littlechance, and only because I've
seen this for 20 plus years nowand it seems we're always on the
precipice of this bigbreakthrough.
Maybe Generation Z, generationAlpha, will actually get us over
the hump.
But convenience trumps all andprice trumps all over everything
(14:46):
else.
I love sustainability.
I would like to take a momentto brag that we just adopted an
all-electric vehicle.
Right now, we've got a specialplug and everything here in the
house.
But when it comes to business,we have to be realistic as well,
and you have to understandwho's going to be paying to stay
in your hotel or eat in yourrestaurant and then put your
(15:09):
sustainability practice behindthat, or use sustainability as a
way to save money through taxcredits or just because it's a
cheaper way to do business inthe long run.
Jeff Borman (15:17):
There's a big Europe parallel where I think
those things.
There's proof to what you said,where there is more
accountability in Europe aroundthe subject.
Now, whether the measuresactually support what they think
they're doing is totallydifferent, debatable, but
they've got metrics, they've gotgoals and generally seem to
have a more conscious consumermaking those choices.
Glenn Haussmann (15:40):
Totally.
I'm a big believer in themarket drives everything and
sustainability will eventuallytake off when it is cheaper to
do the right thing than to cutcorners, and it will happen.
It just takes time and I'venoticed with everything in life.
It takes a lot longer than weall just imagined it would
emergently.
Jeff Borman (16:00):
Sticking with follow the dollar here.
Labor costs dangerously higherthan five years ago.
Do you think that today's wagegrowth and I'm talking about
more like the hourly, the lowermanagement level do you think
today's wage growth and theaggressiveness of the current
labor market is a result ofexcessive executive earnings?
And I'll give you a second hereHilton, hyatt, marriott, execs
(16:23):
pulled around 50 million bucks ayear.
Last year, glenn Fogle atBooking different Glenn, $100
million.
You were probably $250.
Glenn Fogle $125.
Glenn Haussmann (16:33):
Yeah, I made $75 last year, but Dad Lehi blew
it all in a casino.
So there's that.
Jeff Borman (16:42):
I'm a hardcore free marketer, but I also see the
rub here.
When the average worker has awage capped at 3% a year, not
keeping up with inflationrecently, and then astronomic
figures like these are madepublic, my question is do you
see a correlation?
Glenn Haussmann (17:03):
And then astronomic figures like these
are made public.
My question is do you see acorrelation between the
conversation driving wage growthat the bottom and the kind of
astronomical rise that'shappened in the last five years
at the top, typically um, inthat level of employment through
all strata of society?
I think that they're not reallypaying attention to what's
going on with the ceos like uhhey, that specific dude is
making a lot of money, so Ishould be making more money.
(17:25):
But to go back to what I wassaying about this schism in
society, I think that that isdefinitely permeating through
with the way people feel andthat there's like these people
at the top are making so muchmoney, I should be getting my, I
should be getting my fair sharetoo, and they're not.
So this starts to worry me on amore macro issue than a few
(17:49):
dollars more per hour.
Jeff Borman (17:51):
You know, we kind of saw this a little bit in the
08 to 10 recession in banking.
There was a lot of public angerabout bailing out banks, as
bankers were collecting massivepayouts, yeah, but they always
won.
I wonder if that's nothappening in our world.
If you're the union rep and yourepresent 100,000 employees
across New York City and youstart quoting numbers like this,
(18:14):
no, we really do deserve ourseven, and I'm not your union
advocate.
I'm not the right one.
It's not my fight, by the way,either direction.
Ok, but I would think there hasto be some pent up angst when
the people who were furloughedduring covid also saw that the
LTI gained at the top of thefood chain was their best years
(18:36):
ever.
Glenn Haussmann (18:37):
Right, exactly, exactly.
And this is the one thing thatreally frustrates me is that
people say inflation, inflation,inflation and then corporate
profits are at record highs.
So what's the truth, right?
So what's the truth right?
And again I just go back to I'mvery concerned that this split
(18:59):
in society is becoming morepronounced and more dangerous to
our economy, and maybe beyondthat, as we continue to move
forward into summer and fall, aswe continue to move forward
into summer and fall.
So I don't mean to be again aDebbie Downer, but there could
(19:19):
be some rough times ahead, but Ithink that the people at the
top are going to be just finespending money in luxury hotels.
Jeff Borman (19:24):
They'll still say it the Amman.
Glenn Haussmann (19:26):
Totally yeah.
I'm not even allowed to say it.
I don't make enough money.
Matt Brown (19:31):
Glenn, you mentioned on no Vacancy recently that you
lament being traveled out atthe moment.
I do.
Are there market trends orsentiment that makes you fret
that?
Maybe you're not alone in that?
Do you sense a kind of fatigueout there?
Glenn Haussmann (19:47):
I think number one.
It has to do with the fact thatI'm getting older and I've been
doing it for 30 years.
So I feel that my statement isvery much of me as a human being
, and maybe people who have beenat it for 30 years as well, and
me and these others that I feelkind of similar.
We love being places and beingwith people, just don't like
(20:10):
driving to the airport andparking and waiting online for
the TSA and waiting for yourzone to be called and all of
that stuff, you know, and thelounge is too crowded because
you thought you know and youthought it was going to be a
respite.
That's the thing that's reallybecoming more of an issue, I
think, for myself and people ofmy you know ilk, not the travel
(20:30):
itself.
Jeff Borman (20:32):
What concerned me about it a couple of years back,
whenever well, really, wheneveryone was recovering from the
pause in travel 21, 22,whatever speaking with a friend
of mine well up in a majorconsultancy and she was saying
that the people of ourgeneration loved being on the
road and the people of theyoungest generation coming into
(20:55):
their workforce as youngconsultants, the road warriors,
the Sunday through Thursdaytypes.
That generation doesn't want tobe on the road in the way that
those prior did.
That's a concern for me as Ilook at the whole way our
business has been built.
Glenn Haussmann (21:10):
Something doesn't make sense to me there,
jeff, because every piece ofevidence that I've seen is
younger generations are more theexperienced generation, they're
moving more away from things.
Sure, there's the tiktokculture of, uh hey, look at how
I'm living, I'm so rich, andstuff like that.
But I think fundamentallypeople would rather go to a
(21:31):
music festival than buy a Birkinbag or whatever the famous bag
is of the day, right.
So I don't get why peoplewouldn't want to travel as
consultants to me and maybe just, oh man, get off my long glen
over here.
But traveling at someone else'sdime to cool different places
(21:53):
and eating in great restaurantsand meeting new people in your
20s and 30s freaking, come on.
Jeff Borman (21:59):
What could be better Come?
Glenn Haussmann (22:01):
on.
Yeah, you want to be stuckbehind a desk every single day.
You complain about that too,because you want to be remote
and doing things and mix yourlifestyle.
So that's why I don't get that.
I think that a great salvationfor the hospitality industry are
going to be great companiesthat understand that digital
nomad and really kind of puttingthe pieces together.
(22:22):
And it's probably one of thereasons why Marriott bought
Simpson M, for example, overthere.
Jeff Borman (22:28):
I just think they were bored and sitting on a
mountain of cash.
Glenn Haussmann (22:33):
You got to deliver to those shareholders.
Continue to expand.
Jeff Borman (22:37):
Well, yeah, you got to make sure it doesn't come
out in dividends.
Better spend it faster.
Matt Brown (22:40):
Do you think any of it is related to, okay,
millennials.
They now have 10 year olds,they now have kids who are
growing out of high school,practically True Gen Z, gen
Alpha, and it's like the demandsit's.
It's sort of like a friend ofmine told me this about golf a
while ago, even though golf kindof waxes and wanes depending on
a lot of factors.
But it's like gone are the daysfrom like the 70s where it's
(23:07):
like dad leaves at 8 am andcomes back a little tipsy at 6
pm.
It's like, no, that our familyschedules are just not that way
and that the old time.
Ok, honey, I'm off to theairport to go on my consulting
visit to Dallas for four days.
Good luck with the kids andI'll see you on Saturday morning
.
That dynamic has just changed,both family-wise and personally,
for people and that has led tomaybe not for exotic conferences
(23:30):
like oh great, this will be agreat vacation, let's go, and
then they bring the family outafter.
But that kind of that weeklygrind of travel that used to
dominate, I feel, is looked ataskew by younger generations.
Glenn Haussmann (23:42):
It may very well be true, but again, I think
we're just making broad basedstatements and all of these
things can be true amongstdifferent subsets of the
population at the same time,which will still keep you right
and hotels satisfied right.
One of the things that I'veseen over the last 30 years is
as the hospitality industry hasgrown.
(24:04):
It's grown because our numberone, our society, has grown in
size and also in desire totravel more.
Plus, we've had a great shift.
So as long as population keepsexpanding and all of that, I
think there will still be a lotof travel and those that could
connect work to play, I think,are going to be in a great shape
(24:27):
as this travel thing starts tocontinue to cost more money.
So I feel like I've said awhole lot of declarations and
then walk them back all in thesame conversation, but I do
think it's all true, dependingon the angle you're looking at
it.
Jeff Borman (24:42):
That's right.
If you predict a marketcontraction every single day,
you will eventually be correct.
Glenn Haussmann (24:47):
That's right, and one of the things I love
about making predictions is Ican make a thousand of them and
no one's going to call me on it,but if I get one right, I can
pull a clip and go see.
I told you, yeah, that was verypresidential of you.
Thank you very much.
Sadly, I'm not smart enough toactually record any of my
proclamations, so if I was right, no one will know.
Jeff Borman (25:07):
Yeah, Shep Gordon, the guy who launched Emeril
Lagasse, essentially created theceleb chef putting cooking on
TV.
Yeah, bam, bam yeah.
In a certain way, every cheftoday is afforded more creative
license and a little morerespect.
Because of what Shep did.
Yeah, the entire elevation ofculinary standards in America
(25:31):
has a lot to do with him makingcooking as entertainment.
Why the long soliloquy aboutChef Gordon?
Because the hospitality needsthis, glenn, and as our leading
voice in the business, I'masking you will you be our Chef
Gordon?
Glenn Haussmann (25:48):
I totally accept the challenge and I will
do the old improv.
Yes, and in fact tomorrow, aswe're recording this, I'm off to
the Memphis in May competitionwhere I'm joining a barbecue pit
team to uh, to, to help them doa cook.
So, yes, I am in man and I willtell you.
(26:08):
Speaking of Emeril, you alsogot to give credit to a Wolfgang
Puck for opening Spago in LasVegas, which I think between
those two events and all of ourfood TV stuff, really changed
the way all of society interactswith with food and it's made
everyone really in a betterplace.
Jeff Borman (26:27):
Do you think there's a place in that travel
channel environment, foodnetwork environment for more
hospitality, meaning hotelcentric style entertainment?
Your former partner didsomething.
Glenn Haussmann (26:39):
No, yeah, anthony and I have trouble
getting our schedules together,but we're going to be moving to
more instead of a live orrecorded schedule, so we could
try to align our schedulesbetter in order to have him do
more shows.
So look out for that.
Yeah, I think we're seeing abig seismic shift in the
marketplace and, while one of mydreams may have been at one
(27:01):
point to get a show on TravelChannel or one of those other
things, I don't think they'rereally relevant to the
conversation right now.
We've really moved into a worldwhere you can be your own
creator and have incrediblesuccess both notoriety and
financial with tools likeYouTube.
I'm more of a LinkedIn guy, but,man, if I was coming up today,
(27:23):
I would find a fun, interestingangle and do it through YouTube.
There are so many greattravel-related shows out there.
I'd love to get involved insomething that's a little bit
more wonky, like you know mywalk and talk videos with casino
executives and stuff like that.
I'd like to see those take off,but there's so many great
(27:44):
people out there doing amazingcontent.
That's right for the world thatwe live in today.
Matt Brown (27:49):
Speaking of casino executives, time for the
lightning round.
First up, when you corral manyCEOs and C-level guests, how do
you get good answers from themversus ads?
Dude, these very, very nicepeople, very smart, and you know
(28:12):
what.
Things are great, the quarterlyis great, occupancy is great,
the brand is great, everythingis just so, so great.
And how do you get them to kindof come back down to earth and
give you the real nitty gritty?
Sometimes?
Glenn Haussmann (28:25):
Oh, blackmail.
I got files on these people,you know.
Know, uh, I I'll the.
The real answer is I'm not ahundred percent sure.
There's something about mypersonality that, I'm told,
makes people feel reallycomfortable and people have a
(28:45):
way of sharing things with me,either on air or randomly on a
subway.
Uh, that you wouldn't expect.
So I don't know, I just sendoff.
I guess I just send good onpositive energy that you
wouldn't expect.
So I don't know, I just sendoff.
I guess I just send good,positive energy that you're in a
safe space and I'm on your side, kind of vibes and people are
willing to share more than theyotherwise would have.
When their defenses are up andthey're worried that they're
(29:06):
gonna be caught in a gotcha sortof game, I'm not here.
My mantra is educate, empower,entertain.
I want people to kick ass.
I don't want to challengesomebody.
I don't care about politics andgetting involved in any of that
kind of mess or hospitalitypolitics.
I just want people to learn andbe more successful in their
(29:28):
business and be able to providefor their families and stay at
the Ritz-Carlton whenever theheck they feel like it.
Jeff Borman (29:33):
Provide for their families and stay at the
Ritz-Carlton whenever the heckthey feel like it.
Is there anything particularlyunique about being a media voice
in hospitality versus otherindustries?
Glenn Haussmann (29:41):
Yeah, we got the coolest freaking business
there is.
Man, I think about this.
How freaking lucky I am to bein this.
I can't imagine you would havethe story possibilities and the
visual possibilities in so manyother industries.
Chemical engineering todaymight be like a cool publication
to work for, but that's not myvibe, right.
(30:05):
Other than maybe some industrymusic magazines.
I can't really think ofanything that's more exciting
and interesting.
That's so layered.
You know that you could tellgreat stories, so I got to
figure that they're happy inwhatever industries they are,
because they don't know abouthow amazing our industry is.
Right, because our industry isevery industry there is you
(30:27):
mentioned design, technology,real estate, customer behavior
right, so many different areas.
It's just insane.
No matter what you want to talkabout, we can talk about it in
a hospitality context, so thecontent is endless.
But how much can you reallytalk about new pest control,
chemicals or something?
Jeff Borman (30:47):
like that, not for very long, no, but you mentioned
the music industry beinganother one Personal question.
Are you a Phish fan?
But you mentioned the musicindustry being another one
Personal question.
Glenn Haussmann (30:54):
Are you a Phish fan?
Worst fan ever, and I know thatbecause I've seen more than 200
shows, so I'm going to keepgoing back until they can prove
themselves.
30-something years trying tofigure this out, yeah, no,
that's my jam, so to speak.
Jeff Borman (31:09):
Yeah, Pun intended, your signature, sign, sign off
as a direct fish, yes, fish line.
I had no idea and listen, it'skind of like this can't be a
mistake.
Matt Brown (31:23):
That was not a mistake you two are birds of a
feather yeah, man, I will tellyou uh, I had.
Glenn Haussmann (31:35):
Uh, I don't need to ask the question, but
one of the best moments thatI've ever had in my entire
career was uniting three of themost important things to me.
That makes me of my essenceFish, my love of how awesome Las
Vegas is.
My love of how awesome LasVegas is and how happy I am with
(31:58):
how much work I put into mycareer every single day.
And I'm sitting there, theguest of a Venetian, at the
luxury box at sphere, on thefirst night of the first four
shows of all, and I had all fourthere.
So I was there that first nightand I'm like I can't believe
that I'm getting to see myfavorite band and my favorite
city in this most incrediblevenue as a thank you from a
(32:21):
resort because I helped them outin a in a non-expecting way.
I was just during COVID.
I was just sending out apositive vibe to everybody and
they wanted to say thank you tome.
So it was like so incrediblethat that all came together and
did you get to go to all four?
Jeff Borman (32:38):
I did not go to all four, but I was there in the
beginning run and I had asimilar but totally opposite
experience about a month ago.
The band was on a brief breakand, you may remember, trey was
doing some acoustic shows.
Uh-huh, I got a notice from afriend that one of the hotels
that I work very closely withtraded a private show for 200
(33:00):
out on a beach and somehow thesefools didn't remember to invite
me or even inform me that itwas a Water Rail Foundation
production Could have been thereBeach in Puerto Rico, just Trey
and 199 other people.
Glenn Haussmann (33:15):
Wow, that is crazy.
I would have loved that.
I actually have on my wallright there a little Trey thing.
He drew a little picture for meand wished my wife and I we
were engaged at the timecongratulations on getting
married and stuff like that.
We saw him at Radio City MusicHall when he was doing a run
(33:36):
there in 2001.
I think it was.
Yeah, I made the smart movehorrible move of getting my
family all involved in it.
My wife's liked it, but I gotboth my 21-year-old boys
involved in it now and I wasgoing to take all four of us to
Forest Hills but they're lookingfor $500 a seat, right, and
this gets back to our wholeconversation.
(33:58):
I would love to take my familyto go see a fish show which I
love for 30 years, the four ofus all together, but it's $2,000
just for the tickets, plus fees, plus everything else.
Come on, Come on.
I can't rationalize that andI'm your biggest player here.
(34:20):
So between that and the $7 cupof coffee, ethos, it's like.
This is why I'm worried.
I just feel like I'm out.
Matt Brown (34:27):
Or, as I call them, ultra luxury prices.
Really Legend in the making.
Glenn Hausman, thank you somuch for being part of no show,
appreciate you.
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