December 23, 2025 • 22 mins
When you walk into the Mayflower Hotel, it feels like a film set, the ideal visual representation of what a hotel should be. It is one of the most important venues in the shaping of America, hotel or otherwise. The conversations, the deals, the A-list encounters, the scandals that shook politics. It was a place that knew how to keep a secret. Until it didn't.
It survived depressions, wars, setbacks, inaugurations, ownership changes, and J. Edgar Hoover. This year marks its centennial, and we talk with one of its former employees to see inside "Washington's Second Best Address."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Brown (00:08):
Hi everybody, it's no Show, with me, matt Brown,
and that guy, jeff Borman.
I remember big experiences inmy life through place, through
buildings, through architecture,through parks.
I remember my experiences withpeople through place.
That's my prime.
I mean, everybody does thatright, but that is the prime way
(00:30):
that I cement memories.
And God, almost three decadesago I was living in DC, I had
just gotten a job at a tradeassociation in DuPont Circle and
the woman who was in the officeright next to me was Jeff's
wife, heather.
And Heather, for those very fewof those who don't know her
(00:53):
because she knows, likeeverybody in the world, heather
is one of those gregariouspeople, hail, fellow, well-met
people in the world.
Everyone is a friend and shewas immediately welcoming and
friendly and in fact eveninvited me to Thanksgiving at
your house.
She'd only known me for acouple of days and, like,
(01:14):
invited me to Thanksgiving atyour house.
So right, and so I quickly gotto know Heather and and had met
Jeff and found out oh yeah, jeffworks in the hotel business.
Oh, wow, what do you do?
Well, he actually works reallyclose to us.
So a couple of weeks after thatholiday season we were all
(01:36):
leaving work and I think she hadto drop something off for you.
I just need to drop this toJeff.
And it's just a couple ofblocks away because we were
going, if memory serves, to theLucky Bar.
That is a hazy memory, as mostmemories are, with the Lucky Bar
in DC.
And we walk three blocks downand we walk into this lobby of a
(01:57):
hotel.
That is something out of amovie.
It was a film set for what ahotel should be.
And there, standing by the deskin dress blues with a
Renaissance badge, shiny andfirmly affixed, was Jeff Borman
waiting to greet yet anotherguest into this grand
(02:21):
institution called theMayflower.
Jeff Borman (02:25):
Jeff, what is the Mayflower.
The Mayflower is one of themost important venues in the
shaping of America, hotel orotherwise.
The venue altered the globe.
I mean the conversations, thedeals, the A-list encounters,
the scandals that shookpolitics.
It was a place that knew how tokeep a secret.
(02:46):
Before we get into your personalhistory with the Mayflower,
give us a little bit of thebackstory of this landmark
building Ground broke in 1922 at1127 Connecticut Avenue, an odd
trapezoid-shaped lot squeezedin by DeSalle Street and 17th
Street, four blocks from theWhite House, between Farragut
(03:08):
Park and DuPont Circle.
The same architecture firm thatbuilt the Mayflower did the
Plaza in New York, the Biltmorein New York, the Broadmoor in
Colorado, One of my favoritehotels, the Condado Vanderbilt
in San Juan, several classicRitz-Carlton hotels and maybe
the most experienced building ofall of them, Grand Central
(03:28):
Station Terminal.
Matt Brown (03:29):
It does share.
Now, you know, I don't think Iknew that until we were
researching this episode it doesshare DNA.
When you look at it, like Ialways kind of took its look for
granted.
But then when you start lookingat the plaza particularly, it's
like, oh yeah, that shape, it'sthat kind of weird, that huge
shape of it.
That's really distinctive.
Jeff Borman (03:49):
When it opened in 1925, it was Washington's
largest hotel, with over athousand rooms.
Massive, I mean, that's largeby today's standard.
It was massive by the standardof the era.
Shortly after opening, thehotel added a presidential and
vice presidential suite.
Each was a 13-room unit, fivebeds each, dedicated bathroom in
(04:13):
each one.
Very big deal in 1925 to have adedicated bathroom, a foyer, a
drawing room, a library, asecretary's room, a dining room,
a kitchen, a maid's room.
This is unparalleled luxury.
Uh, brought to washington dcand long gone are the amenities
of a luxury hotel in the roaring20s, with a florist and a
notary.
They had an apothecary, abarber shop, a hair salon,
(04:35):
theater ticketing agency.
It was service on anunparalleled level it.
Matt Brown (04:41):
Also it was commensurate with the times
because it was the roaring 20s,so everything went big,
everything went Gatsby.
It's also, I think,commensurate with America's
rising place in the world.
Right, it was a flex.
This is where people will comefor defense contracts, this is
where people will come to stay,to get access to the White
(05:02):
House, to be dignitaries.
I think there was kind of acoming out a little bit for DC
and I think in a larger sense,kind of for American government
to be able to host the world inthis town, which I think had
been largely a backwater in DCEven when we were living there
(05:23):
DC.
Sometimes people kind of lookas backwater in DC, even when we
were living there DC.
Sometimes people kind of lookaskew at DC they still do,
actually, in the current day.
But this felt like one of thegreat hotel flexes of all time.
Jeff Borman (05:37):
Washington was not a top 25 city in the US, it was
a federal backwater,intentionally kept so.
They didn't want it to be astate because they didn't want
to be in state politics anddividing the house.
But here was the Mayflower, notjust along for the ride, they
were the captain of the ship.
(05:57):
Right after opening, presidentCoolidge began a long tradition
of hosting political events when6,000 people attended his
inaugural ball in the GrandBallroom and President Hoover
continued that tradition in1929.
Every president after that,until the mid-'80s, when they
started having inaugural ballsall over town, held the ball at
(06:19):
the Mayflower Matt.
Only because I was prepping forthis show and this conversation
a bit did I learn thatCoolidge's inaugural ball was
actually a charitablefundraiser.
Now think about how things havechanged on that side of the
coin in 100 years, where,instead of millions being spent
to celebrate their success, tensof thousands were raised for
(06:42):
the causes that they wished toprioritize with that
administration.
Great idea.
Matt Brown (06:50):
I think when you go through the greatest hits of
this hotel, it's kind ofstaggering right.
Jeff Borman (06:56):
Oh, let's just run the list.
So President Hoover has hisinauguration, but his vice
president checked in for allfour years right.
By 1932, 23 members of Congresswere living there full-time.
Fdr and his family lived thereas he was president-elect until
the White House was vacant.
Truman followed with adedicated suite of his own.
(07:17):
It's not just a who's who, itwas almost an annex of the White
House in many ways.
During World War II, mayflowerwas center stage for war
planning and fundraising.
The era's guest list reads likethe generation's A-list guest
list right.
Marlena Dietrich, charles deGaulle, winston Churchill, frank
Sinatra, bing Crosby, judyGarland, glenn Miller where do
(07:41):
we stop?
Bob Hope, lucille Ball All thiswas played out to the sounds of
the Mayflower Orchestrabecause, yes, the hotel had an
orchestra.
Matt Brown (07:49):
I cannot remember the name of it.
It was a bar, restaurant and itwas a town and country, the
town and country I described thehotels like from a film set
earlier.
This is the bar that you wouldhave a scene between Washington
(08:10):
power brokers set.
It was wood, oak, leather.
The bartenders were dressed tothe nines.
It was expensive, expensive,for a person in their 20s.
For sure I love that place andit kind of bums me out because
it's not there anymore, right?
Jeff Borman (08:26):
No, it's so sad.
The hotel has celebrated itsheritage in so many ways and yet
it's conformed to the modernyou know asset managers demands.
No, matt, it's a retail giftshop now.
Oh, one of Washington's bestbars.
Nikita Khrushchev passed noteswith a spy.
It's a retail gift shop now,oh, ah, one of Washington's best
bars.
Nikita Khrushchev passed noteswith a spy in that bar.
(08:50):
Queen Elizabeth II ordered Idon't know her favorite drink,
but there's a photo of herholding it there.
I saw on Y2K the day that alltechnology was going to break.
I saw Jack Nicholson Down abottle of Louis 13 in that bar
before going upstairs aroundthree o'clock to sleep it off
for midnight celebration.
Matt Brown (09:13):
That sounds exactly like the way Jack would prepare
for a new century.
That's great.
Was that the bar?
Wasn't there a thing with JEdgar Hoover?
There are a lot of things withJ Edgar Hoover, but didn't he
have a relationship with the baror the hotel?
Jeff Borman (09:30):
He dined there every day for at least 20 years,
did he really?
Every working day, and he wasthere either in the coffee shop
in the morning, the rib room forlunch or dinner, and of course
that turned into the Carvery andLa Chateauneuf.
I mean it changed names amillion times.
Regardless, hoover was thereevery single day for at least 20
years.
Imagine who else met him thereand the conversations there
(09:53):
were.
Matt Brown (09:54):
Yeah, sometimes I don't want to imagine what those
conversations were.
Jeff Borman (10:02):
In fact, the lobby, bar and restaurant at the hotel
is now named Edgar's.
Matt Brown (10:05):
Yeah, Edgar's still with us after all these years.
Jeff Borman (10:09):
It's no town and country and you know.
Matt Brown (10:11):
Rest in peace, sam lack, one of washington's finest
bartenders so it goes throughthe war, through world war ii,
it's still the hotel of choice.
Post-war dc's becoming apowerhouse and you start seeing
more properties, more hotels popup and those hotels are going
for the same kind of market.
So in 1966, the hotel was soldfor something along 14 million
(10:36):
bucks.
Jeff Borman (10:37):
Think of how different real estate valuations
moved in the first half to thesecond half of the Mayflower's
century.
It could be built for 11million in 1925, sell for $14
million in 1966, only increasing$30 million in the first 41
years of its existence and thenrising by $186 million over the
(11:01):
next 29 years.
I know, I know.
The power of DC is really whatwe're talking about.
Matt Brown (11:06):
The Mayflower also shows how hotel branding has
evolved over the last hundredyears.
By the way, everybody, it's the100th anniversary of the
Mayflower.
That's why we're actually doingthis episode.
It started as an indie, asthere were really no big brands
back in 1925.
Not like that.
It lived a short period of timeas a Hilton and then it was
(11:28):
independent again, and then in1981, it became a Stouffer brand
hotel, which later merged withRenaissance, and then in 97, it
joined Marriott Internationalwhen Marriott purchased the
Renaissance brand.
Jeff Borman (11:43):
So the Renaissance brand took a more modern design
from there and hotels in thecollection like the Stanford
Court in in san francisco andthe venoy in saint petersburg,
like those the mayflower peeledoff into the autograph
collection, more fitting for theunique historic hotel than the
more modern branded style thatrenaissance was evolving into.
(12:05):
In fact, autograph has one ofmy favorite taglines in all the
business, exactly like nothingelse, and that fits the
Mayflower perfectly.
I love it.
Matt Brown (12:15):
I love it and at the time that you were working
there during all thistransition, how big was
Marriott?
This is when you start to comeinto the story, which is the
most important part for me.
Jeff Borman (12:28):
Fair enough.
It's the least important partto me.
Glad we're working well though.
Marriott was about the fifthlargest hotel company in the
late 90s when I started there.
Really, marriott at that timewas starting to figure out a
little bit ahead of its peersthe power of franchising in
terms of development and growth.
But when I started in thesummer of 97 with Renaissance
(12:49):
between the time I was hired andstarted is when Marriott took
control of the brand, so myfirst paycheck was the very
first one that Renaissanceemployees had with a red M on
it.
If I may ask, how did you getthat job?
One of the more influentialconversations of my life my
(13:09):
mother's uncle, george CookWashington legend, power broker
K Street and one of the mostgenerous, benevolent people you
ever meet he took the time tohave lunch with me as I was a
senior in college and not surewhat I was going to do.
All I had done was work inrestaurants.
He was asking the toughquestions what are you going to
(13:32):
do?
When you got to get a job?
I was telling him about howmuch I enjoyed my time in
restaurants and the serviceculture and hospitality, but I
didn't want a business career.
I didn't want to spend my lifein a, and he suggested hotels,
and it was on his suggestion.
And then an introduction to JimBigger, who was the general
(13:55):
manager of the Mayflower.
In fact, matt, there's a funnyself-deprecating story when I
interviewed with the generalmanager and I was telling him
how passionate I was abouthospitality, and he said well,
jeff, if you're so passionate,why didn't you study hospitality
in school?
And I literally said you can.
I had no idea it wasn't aschool, it was not a program
that I'd ever heard of.
(14:16):
We didn't have it at MiamiUniversity.
I was very fortunate that, notonly that, my uncle had the
foresight to give me the adviceor suggestion to choose
hospitality as a career path, asa blend of the business career
I wanted and the travelenvironment that I'm passionate
about, but also then to make anintroduction for a job where I
(14:40):
began as a management trainee.
And those are jobs that don'texist today uh, it's junior most
managers where somebody out ofschool without any experience
would come into the hotel as amanagement trainee or id and be
assigned to various departmentsover the course of a year.
So you know, my first month wasin housekeeping and my second
(15:03):
month was in banquets, rollingrounds and then you're in
laundry for a while.
Uh, you do some time inculinary, which is very short
because I kind of had thatbackground a bit uh, and a lot
of time at the front deskbecause they're kind of
short-staffed in a manager andneeded somebody to do that work,
and did graveyard shifts inaccounting for a month and you
(15:23):
learn the business that way.
So the idea being, after a yearof learning the entire business
of the hotel, you're aqualified manager to be assigned
to some department.
Why did they get rid of it?
Cost containment.
You're basically not a veryproductive person for that year
or at least that's theperception of today's management
companies and probably morethan that ownership.
Matt Brown (15:45):
Why can't we have nice things?
We mentioned for a very shortperiod the Mayflower was a
Hilton Connie, quite thecharacter.
He bought controlling interestin the hotel in 1947 for about
2.6 million bucks and it wasonly the 14th hotel in his
chain.
But he set to work immediatelyand his rehabilitation of the
(16:06):
property was an unmitigatedaesthetic and financial
disaster, and those thingsaren't often associated with
Conrad Hilton and that era ofHilton.
But this was something else.
He covered the gorgeousmezzanine in wood paneling and
he turned the color scheme tothis kind of black and gray
(16:29):
palette and he added this dropceiling that covered up the
skylights in the lobby.
Don't know why he did that, andthen you know you cut several
of these later.
And then another renovationbegan to undo the mess and
restore the building to itsoriginal feel.
But they did keep the airconditioning part of Connie's
modernization, which was, Ithink, a good move.
Jeff Borman (16:52):
Yeah, he got that part right.
I've also heard that the dropceiling was blacked out during
World War II, which would havepredated Conrad Hilton's arrival
as an investor owner, butbecause they were trying to keep
DC dark at night to preventaerial attack, and the Mayflower
being a 24-hour business andalso four blocks from the White
(17:13):
House, would have made a reallygood reference point for attack
from the air.
So I don't know that we couldblame Conrad for screwing up the
beautiful skylights in thelobby, but we do know that in
the mid-50s Mr Hilton was forcedto sell Mayflower to settle an
antitrust lawsuit and instead hechose to keep the newly
(17:34):
constructed Statler Hotel, whichwas soon to be known as the
Capitol Hotel.
Matt Brown (17:38):
Doesn't that sound like he pissed off a senator or
got into someone?
I need to go research that partof it, but this feels like
something out of the Aviator.
He was ornery and got onsomebody's bad side and they
decided to take this up incommittee.
From your time working thereand then from your time after,
(18:13):
as you've been in a, but alsomaybe some of the challenges
that come when you're workingwith an older building.
Jeff Borman (18:19):
Yeah, there are many historic hotels.
In a lot of cases that justmeans they're old.
The Mayflower is on theregister of historic places not
for just lasting long enough toget a plaque.
It's for what occurred there,and there's a sense of pride.
Working in a historic hotel.
That's different.
(18:40):
You're part of a narrative thatextends back generations.
I think there's an awarenessthat that's what you're doing,
that you are the present chapterof a very proud book.
There's an emotional connectionto characters that came before
you.
I'll give you an example.
When I would hear stories aboutBob Hope or Frank Sinatra at
(19:01):
the hotel, those icons from mygrandparents' era began to take
on a personal meaning for meinstead of just something of
theirs.
Historic hotels can do that tothe employees.
It's different to work there,and so when I was lucky enough
to experience Wynton Marcellusas a guest coming back from an
event at the Kennedy Center, itwas around midnight, my shift at
(19:25):
the front desk was nearlyfinished and he pulled out the
trumpet and just spontaneouslybegan playing because he had run
into a friend in the lobby.
That can only happen in a placeas special as the mayflower,
and it's not because it's old,it's not because it's historic.
It's because of what hashappened there before it and
it's just.
There is just something uniqueabout that lobby.
(19:48):
That and people sense it.
Matt Brown (19:50):
It's different is it also true that you met Kurt
Russell?
Jeff Borman (19:57):
I did.
Yeah, goldie Hawn was filmingsomething in DC and Kurt Russell
was in town with her, justbeing with her, and when she was
out to work for the day, hecame to the front desk where I
was working a little before noonor something and asked for just
some ideas, things to do,places to walk around town, and
I mean just like a bar inTombstone.
He leaned against the frontdesk and we shot the shit for
(20:19):
about an hour.
I mean the dude was super.
He could not have been morecool.
Matt Brown (20:24):
Does there come a point when buildings that size
and age, it just no longer makessense to renovate them as
hotels, versus either tearingthem down or turning them into
condos or turning them intosomething else?
I wonder when that point comesfor properties like this.
Jeff Borman (20:45):
The Waldorf Astoria in New York City is the easiest
example, because both thestaggering $2 billion price tag
that was paid just to tear itdown and also because it meant
erasing the most iconic hotel inthe Western Hemisphere.
It went from a 100-year-old2,000-room luxury hotel into a
300-suite hotel.
(21:06):
The rest of the building is nowprivate residences.
Matt Brown (21:09):
when it opened earlier this year, you went back
to the Mayflower recently andyou stayed there.
You were telling me that someof the staff is still there,
right?
Jeff Borman (21:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Walking through the lobby andseeing familiar faces 25, 27
years later is reallyincredible.
Carlton and Frank are stillworking the door as they were in
the nineties.
It's an amazing place.
There aren't many hotels reallyanywhere in the world that are
so special that for 25 yearsconsecutively you've got Bell
(21:42):
Staff who knows every guest'sname.
Hi everybody, it's no Show, with me, matt Brown,
and that guy, jeff Borman.
I remember big experiences inmy life through place, through
buildings, through architecture,through parks.
I remember my experiences withpeople through place.
That's my prime.
I mean, everybody does thatright, but that is the prime way
(00:30):
that I cement memories.
And God, almost three decadesago I was living in DC, I had
just gotten a job at a tradeassociation in DuPont Circle and
the woman who was in the officeright next to me was Jeff's
wife, heather.
And Heather, for those very fewof those who don't know her
(00:53):
because she knows, likeeverybody in the world, heather
is one of those gregariouspeople, hail, fellow, well-met
people in the world.
Everyone is a friend and shewas immediately welcoming and
friendly and in fact eveninvited me to Thanksgiving at
your house.
She'd only known me for acouple of days and, like,
(01:14):
invited me to Thanksgiving atyour house.
So right, and so I quickly gotto know Heather and and had met
Jeff and found out oh yeah, jeffworks in the hotel business.
Oh, wow, what do you do?
Well, he actually works reallyclose to us.
So a couple of weeks after thatholiday season we were all
(01:36):
leaving work and I think she hadto drop something off for you.
I just need to drop this toJeff.
And it's just a couple ofblocks away because we were
going, if memory serves, to theLucky Bar.
That is a hazy memory, as mostmemories are, with the Lucky Bar
in DC.
And we walk three blocks downand we walk into this lobby of a
(01:57):
hotel.
That is something out of amovie.
It was a film set for what ahotel should be.
And there, standing by the deskin dress blues with a
Renaissance badge, shiny andfirmly affixed, was Jeff Borman
waiting to greet yet anotherguest into this grand
(02:21):
institution called theMayflower.
Jeff Borman (02:25):
Jeff, what is the Mayflower.
The Mayflower is one of themost important venues in the
shaping of America, hotel orotherwise.
The venue altered the globe.
I mean the conversations, thedeals, the A-list encounters,
the scandals that shookpolitics.
It was a place that knew how tokeep a secret.
(02:46):
Before we get into your personalhistory with the Mayflower,
give us a little bit of thebackstory of this landmark
building Ground broke in 1922 at1127 Connecticut Avenue, an odd
trapezoid-shaped lot squeezedin by DeSalle Street and 17th
Street, four blocks from theWhite House, between Farragut
(03:08):
Park and DuPont Circle.
The same architecture firm thatbuilt the Mayflower did the
Plaza in New York, the Biltmorein New York, the Broadmoor in
Colorado, One of my favoritehotels, the Condado Vanderbilt
in San Juan, several classicRitz-Carlton hotels and maybe
the most experienced building ofall of them, Grand Central
(03:28):
Station Terminal.
Matt Brown (03:29):
It does share.
Now, you know, I don't think Iknew that until we were
researching this episode it doesshare DNA.
When you look at it, like Ialways kind of took its look for
granted.
But then when you start lookingat the plaza particularly, it's
like, oh yeah, that shape, it'sthat kind of weird, that huge
shape of it.
That's really distinctive.
Jeff Borman (03:49):
When it opened in 1925, it was Washington's
largest hotel, with over athousand rooms.
Massive, I mean, that's largeby today's standard.
It was massive by the standardof the era.
Shortly after opening, thehotel added a presidential and
vice presidential suite.
Each was a 13-room unit, fivebeds each, dedicated bathroom in
(04:13):
each one.
Very big deal in 1925 to have adedicated bathroom, a foyer, a
drawing room, a library, asecretary's room, a dining room,
a kitchen, a maid's room.
This is unparalleled luxury.
Uh, brought to washington dcand long gone are the amenities
of a luxury hotel in the roaring20s, with a florist and a
notary.
They had an apothecary, abarber shop, a hair salon,
(04:35):
theater ticketing agency.
It was service on anunparalleled level it.
Matt Brown (04:41):
Also it was commensurate with the times
because it was the roaring 20s,so everything went big,
everything went Gatsby.
It's also, I think,commensurate with America's
rising place in the world.
Right, it was a flex.
This is where people will comefor defense contracts, this is
where people will come to stay,to get access to the White
(05:02):
House, to be dignitaries.
I think there was kind of acoming out a little bit for DC
and I think in a larger sense,kind of for American government
to be able to host the world inthis town, which I think had
been largely a backwater in DCEven when we were living there
(05:23):
DC.
Sometimes people kind of lookas backwater in DC, even when we
were living there DC.
Sometimes people kind of lookaskew at DC they still do,
actually, in the current day.
But this felt like one of thegreat hotel flexes of all time.
Jeff Borman (05:37):
Washington was not a top 25 city in the US, it was
a federal backwater,intentionally kept so.
They didn't want it to be astate because they didn't want
to be in state politics anddividing the house.
But here was the Mayflower, notjust along for the ride, they
were the captain of the ship.
(05:57):
Right after opening, presidentCoolidge began a long tradition
of hosting political events when6,000 people attended his
inaugural ball in the GrandBallroom and President Hoover
continued that tradition in1929.
Every president after that,until the mid-'80s, when they
started having inaugural ballsall over town, held the ball at
(06:19):
the Mayflower Matt.
Only because I was prepping forthis show and this conversation
a bit did I learn thatCoolidge's inaugural ball was
actually a charitablefundraiser.
Now think about how things havechanged on that side of the
coin in 100 years, where,instead of millions being spent
to celebrate their success, tensof thousands were raised for
(06:42):
the causes that they wished toprioritize with that
administration.
Great idea.
Matt Brown (06:50):
I think when you go through the greatest hits of
this hotel, it's kind ofstaggering right.
Jeff Borman (06:56):
Oh, let's just run the list.
So President Hoover has hisinauguration, but his vice
president checked in for allfour years right.
By 1932, 23 members of Congresswere living there full-time.
Fdr and his family lived thereas he was president-elect until
the White House was vacant.
Truman followed with adedicated suite of his own.
(07:17):
It's not just a who's who, itwas almost an annex of the White
House in many ways.
During World War II, mayflowerwas center stage for war
planning and fundraising.
The era's guest list reads likethe generation's A-list guest
list right.
Marlena Dietrich, charles deGaulle, winston Churchill, frank
Sinatra, bing Crosby, judyGarland, glenn Miller where do
(07:41):
we stop?
Bob Hope, lucille Ball All thiswas played out to the sounds of
the Mayflower Orchestrabecause, yes, the hotel had an
orchestra.
Matt Brown (07:49):
I cannot remember the name of it.
It was a bar, restaurant and itwas a town and country, the
town and country I described thehotels like from a film set
earlier.
This is the bar that you wouldhave a scene between Washington
(08:10):
power brokers set.
It was wood, oak, leather.
The bartenders were dressed tothe nines.
It was expensive, expensive,for a person in their 20s.
For sure I love that place andit kind of bums me out because
it's not there anymore, right?
Jeff Borman (08:26):
No, it's so sad.
The hotel has celebrated itsheritage in so many ways and yet
it's conformed to the modernyou know asset managers demands.
No, matt, it's a retail giftshop now.
Oh, one of Washington's bestbars.
Nikita Khrushchev passed noteswith a spy.
It's a retail gift shop now,oh, ah, one of Washington's best
bars.
Nikita Khrushchev passed noteswith a spy in that bar.
(08:50):
Queen Elizabeth II ordered Idon't know her favorite drink,
but there's a photo of herholding it there.
I saw on Y2K the day that alltechnology was going to break.
I saw Jack Nicholson Down abottle of Louis 13 in that bar
before going upstairs aroundthree o'clock to sleep it off
for midnight celebration.
Matt Brown (09:13):
That sounds exactly like the way Jack would prepare
for a new century.
That's great.
Was that the bar?
Wasn't there a thing with JEdgar Hoover?
There are a lot of things withJ Edgar Hoover, but didn't he
have a relationship with the baror the hotel?
Jeff Borman (09:30):
He dined there every day for at least 20 years,
did he really?
Every working day, and he wasthere either in the coffee shop
in the morning, the rib room forlunch or dinner, and of course
that turned into the Carvery andLa Chateauneuf.
I mean it changed names amillion times.
Regardless, hoover was thereevery single day for at least 20
years.
Imagine who else met him thereand the conversations there
(09:53):
were.
Matt Brown (09:54):
Yeah, sometimes I don't want to imagine what those
conversations were.
Jeff Borman (10:02):
In fact, the lobby, bar and restaurant at the hotel
is now named Edgar's.
Matt Brown (10:05):
Yeah, Edgar's still with us after all these years.
Jeff Borman (10:09):
It's no town and country and you know.
Matt Brown (10:11):
Rest in peace, sam lack, one of washington's finest
bartenders so it goes throughthe war, through world war ii,
it's still the hotel of choice.
Post-war dc's becoming apowerhouse and you start seeing
more properties, more hotels popup and those hotels are going
for the same kind of market.
So in 1966, the hotel was soldfor something along 14 million
(10:36):
bucks.
Jeff Borman (10:37):
Think of how different real estate valuations
moved in the first half to thesecond half of the Mayflower's
century.
It could be built for 11million in 1925, sell for $14
million in 1966, only increasing$30 million in the first 41
years of its existence and thenrising by $186 million over the
(11:01):
next 29 years.
I know, I know.
The power of DC is really whatwe're talking about.
Matt Brown (11:06):
The Mayflower also shows how hotel branding has
evolved over the last hundredyears.
By the way, everybody, it's the100th anniversary of the
Mayflower.
That's why we're actually doingthis episode.
It started as an indie, asthere were really no big brands
back in 1925.
Not like that.
It lived a short period of timeas a Hilton and then it was
(11:28):
independent again, and then in1981, it became a Stouffer brand
hotel, which later merged withRenaissance, and then in 97, it
joined Marriott Internationalwhen Marriott purchased the
Renaissance brand.
Jeff Borman (11:43):
So the Renaissance brand took a more modern design
from there and hotels in thecollection like the Stanford
Court in in san francisco andthe venoy in saint petersburg,
like those the mayflower peeledoff into the autograph
collection, more fitting for theunique historic hotel than the
more modern branded style thatrenaissance was evolving into.
(12:05):
In fact, autograph has one ofmy favorite taglines in all the
business, exactly like nothingelse, and that fits the
Mayflower perfectly.
I love it.
Matt Brown (12:15):
I love it and at the time that you were working
there during all thistransition, how big was
Marriott?
This is when you start to comeinto the story, which is the
most important part for me.
Jeff Borman (12:28):
Fair enough.
It's the least important partto me.
Glad we're working well though.
Marriott was about the fifthlargest hotel company in the
late 90s when I started there.
Really, marriott at that timewas starting to figure out a
little bit ahead of its peersthe power of franchising in
terms of development and growth.
But when I started in thesummer of 97 with Renaissance
(12:49):
between the time I was hired andstarted is when Marriott took
control of the brand, so myfirst paycheck was the very
first one that Renaissanceemployees had with a red M on
it.
If I may ask, how did you getthat job?
One of the more influentialconversations of my life my
(13:09):
mother's uncle, george CookWashington legend, power broker
K Street and one of the mostgenerous, benevolent people you
ever meet he took the time tohave lunch with me as I was a
senior in college and not surewhat I was going to do.
All I had done was work inrestaurants.
He was asking the toughquestions what are you going to
(13:32):
do?
When you got to get a job?
I was telling him about howmuch I enjoyed my time in
restaurants and the serviceculture and hospitality, but I
didn't want a business career.
I didn't want to spend my lifein a, and he suggested hotels,
and it was on his suggestion.
And then an introduction to JimBigger, who was the general
(13:55):
manager of the Mayflower.
In fact, matt, there's a funnyself-deprecating story when I
interviewed with the generalmanager and I was telling him
how passionate I was abouthospitality, and he said well,
jeff, if you're so passionate,why didn't you study hospitality
in school?
And I literally said you can.
I had no idea it wasn't aschool, it was not a program
that I'd ever heard of.
(14:16):
We didn't have it at MiamiUniversity.
I was very fortunate that, notonly that, my uncle had the
foresight to give me the adviceor suggestion to choose
hospitality as a career path, asa blend of the business career
I wanted and the travelenvironment that I'm passionate
about, but also then to make anintroduction for a job where I
(14:40):
began as a management trainee.
And those are jobs that don'texist today uh, it's junior most
managers where somebody out ofschool without any experience
would come into the hotel as amanagement trainee or id and be
assigned to various departmentsover the course of a year.
So you know, my first month wasin housekeeping and my second
(15:03):
month was in banquets, rollingrounds and then you're in
laundry for a while.
Uh, you do some time inculinary, which is very short
because I kind of had thatbackground a bit uh, and a lot
of time at the front deskbecause they're kind of
short-staffed in a manager andneeded somebody to do that work,
and did graveyard shifts inaccounting for a month and you
(15:23):
learn the business that way.
So the idea being, after a yearof learning the entire business
of the hotel, you're aqualified manager to be assigned
to some department.
Why did they get rid of it?
Cost containment.
You're basically not a veryproductive person for that year
or at least that's theperception of today's management
companies and probably morethan that ownership.
Matt Brown (15:45):
Why can't we have nice things?
We mentioned for a very shortperiod the Mayflower was a
Hilton Connie, quite thecharacter.
He bought controlling interestin the hotel in 1947 for about
2.6 million bucks and it wasonly the 14th hotel in his
chain.
But he set to work immediatelyand his rehabilitation of the
(16:06):
property was an unmitigatedaesthetic and financial
disaster, and those thingsaren't often associated with
Conrad Hilton and that era ofHilton.
But this was something else.
He covered the gorgeousmezzanine in wood paneling and
he turned the color scheme tothis kind of black and gray
(16:29):
palette and he added this dropceiling that covered up the
skylights in the lobby.
Don't know why he did that, andthen you know you cut several
of these later.
And then another renovationbegan to undo the mess and
restore the building to itsoriginal feel.
But they did keep the airconditioning part of Connie's
modernization, which was, Ithink, a good move.
Jeff Borman (16:52):
Yeah, he got that part right.
I've also heard that the dropceiling was blacked out during
World War II, which would havepredated Conrad Hilton's arrival
as an investor owner, butbecause they were trying to keep
DC dark at night to preventaerial attack, and the Mayflower
being a 24-hour business andalso four blocks from the White
(17:13):
House, would have made a reallygood reference point for attack
from the air.
So I don't know that we couldblame Conrad for screwing up the
beautiful skylights in thelobby, but we do know that in
the mid-50s Mr Hilton was forcedto sell Mayflower to settle an
antitrust lawsuit and instead hechose to keep the newly
(17:34):
constructed Statler Hotel, whichwas soon to be known as the
Capitol Hotel.
Matt Brown (17:38):
Doesn't that sound like he pissed off a senator or
got into someone?
I need to go research that partof it, but this feels like
something out of the Aviator.
He was ornery and got onsomebody's bad side and they
decided to take this up incommittee.
From your time working thereand then from your time after,
(18:13):
as you've been in a, but alsomaybe some of the challenges
that come when you're workingwith an older building.
Jeff Borman (18:19):
Yeah, there are many historic hotels.
In a lot of cases that justmeans they're old.
The Mayflower is on theregister of historic places not
for just lasting long enough toget a plaque.
It's for what occurred there,and there's a sense of pride.
Working in a historic hotel.
That's different.
(18:40):
You're part of a narrative thatextends back generations.
I think there's an awarenessthat that's what you're doing,
that you are the present chapterof a very proud book.
There's an emotional connectionto characters that came before
you.
I'll give you an example.
When I would hear stories aboutBob Hope or Frank Sinatra at
(19:01):
the hotel, those icons from mygrandparents' era began to take
on a personal meaning for meinstead of just something of
theirs.
Historic hotels can do that tothe employees.
It's different to work there,and so when I was lucky enough
to experience Wynton Marcellusas a guest coming back from an
event at the Kennedy Center, itwas around midnight, my shift at
(19:25):
the front desk was nearlyfinished and he pulled out the
trumpet and just spontaneouslybegan playing because he had run
into a friend in the lobby.
That can only happen in a placeas special as the mayflower,
and it's not because it's old,it's not because it's historic.
It's because of what hashappened there before it and
it's just.
There is just something uniqueabout that lobby.
(19:48):
That and people sense it.
Matt Brown (19:50):
It's different is it also true that you met Kurt
Russell?
Jeff Borman (19:57):
I did.
Yeah, goldie Hawn was filmingsomething in DC and Kurt Russell
was in town with her, justbeing with her, and when she was
out to work for the day, hecame to the front desk where I
was working a little before noonor something and asked for just
some ideas, things to do,places to walk around town, and
I mean just like a bar inTombstone.
He leaned against the frontdesk and we shot the shit for
(20:19):
about an hour.
I mean the dude was super.
He could not have been morecool.
Matt Brown (20:24):
Does there come a point when buildings that size
and age, it just no longer makessense to renovate them as
hotels, versus either tearingthem down or turning them into
condos or turning them intosomething else?
I wonder when that point comesfor properties like this.
Jeff Borman (20:45):
The Waldorf Astoria in New York City is the easiest
example, because both thestaggering $2 billion price tag
that was paid just to tear itdown and also because it meant
erasing the most iconic hotel inthe Western Hemisphere.
It went from a 100-year-old2,000-room luxury hotel into a
300-suite hotel.
(21:06):
The rest of the building is nowprivate residences.
Matt Brown (21:09):
when it opened earlier this year, you went back
to the Mayflower recently andyou stayed there.
You were telling me that someof the staff is still there,
right?
Jeff Borman (21:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Walking through the lobby andseeing familiar faces 25, 27
years later is reallyincredible.
Carlton and Frank are stillworking the door as they were in
the nineties.
It's an amazing place.
There aren't many hotels reallyanywhere in the world that are
so special that for 25 yearsconsecutively you've got Bell
(21:42):
Staff who knows every guest'sname.
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