August 19, 2025 • 26 mins
How has Tiffany Cooper been so successful for so long? By bringing mind, soul, and spirit to the hotel industry. She's Head of Development, Americas for Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, which for 5 decades has been owner and operator of some of the world's most luxurious hotels, resorts and residences.
We talk about MO's ambitious global expansion plans, how the brand sets itself apart in the ultra-luxury category, the increasing importance of branded residences, wellness and spas as amenities and revenue drivers, and the iconic "I'm a Fan" campaign.
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Episode Transcript
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Matt Brown (00:07):
Hi everybody.
It's no Show with Matt Brownand Jeff Gorman.
How has Tiffany Cooper been sosuccessful for so long?
By bringing mind, soul andspirit to the hotel industry,
and a little bit of tenacity too.
She's the head of developmentAmericas for Mandarin Oriental
Hotel Group, which for fivedecades has been owner and
(00:28):
operator of some of the world'smost luxurious hotels, resorts
and residences.
Before that she had tours ofduty at Ambridge, kempton,
starwood and MarriottInternational.
She's a yoga nista, a meditationguru, a Long Island transplant
to the American West I shouldsay Strong Island speaker and
mentor, mba graduate, whileworking full-time and raising
(00:49):
kids.
Working moms can have it all.
But those are mere facts, andTiffany's life has been about
more than that.
It's been about the beauty andstrength inside all of us.
She understands that luxury asa concept, as a goal, as a treat
, is at once constant, butalways in a state of evolution,
as are we.
We're humans, we want anexperience with a capital E, and
(01:10):
we can't think of anybodybetter to bring that experience
today than Tiffany Cooper.
Welcome to no Show.
Tiffany Cooper (01:17):
Wow, I mean, what an introduction I may have
to bring you with me to all mypitches, if you can.
If you could do that when Ibring you, to bring you with me
to all my pitches, if you can.
If you could do that when Ibring you to a client meetings.
That was incredible.
It almost feels like an episodeof this is your life.
Matt Brown (01:29):
We charge very reasonable rates for for that
service, so so please, we'llexchange information after the
show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Tiffany Cooper (01:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, honored to be here,excited.
Jeff Borman (01:45):
The most pressing thing I must know, having spent
much of my life working for theRitz-Carlton Hotel Company.
It is never to be referred toas Ritz or the Ritz and nothing
about it.
Ritzy.
Are we allowed to say M-O ormust?
Tiffany Cooper (01:57):
it be.
Jeff Borman (01:57):
Mandarin Oriental.
Tiffany Cooper (01:59):
No, look, mandarin Oriental, m-o Mandarin.
We are not a stuffy brand, soMO is perfectly fine.
In fact, that's how we refer toourselves internally.
So MO is perfect.
Jeff Borman (02:13):
Well, in that case, over the last few years, mo has
outlined a very ambitious setof goals for North American
expansion.
What's fueling the appetite?
After so many years beingAsia-centric, what makes you
think that now is the rightmoment to make a big splash in
the Americas?
Tiffany Cooper (02:31):
Well, there's a few things, so I guess we'll
start at the very top with ourCEO.
His name is Laurent Kleiman andhe's been with us now for about
two years.
He comes to us from LVMH,worked at Dior, so he's a luxury
goods brand executive and hehas really laid out a very
(02:51):
ambitious but super achievableplan to double our portfolio
within the next decade, andwe're already well on our way.
So, globally, we're on thistransformative era of growth.
Today we have 44 hotels,because we've just added three
this year we added the Laetitiain Paris, the Conservatorium in
(03:12):
Amsterdam and we just added oneabout two weeks ago in Venice,
and then we're going to beadding another four by the end
of the year and already have 27in our pipeline.
So we're already well on ourway.
But at the end of the day,we're focused on very smart,
strategic growth.
We want it to be in the rightlocations, right sponsorship,
(03:35):
absolutely the right products.
Jeff Borman (03:37):
It's funny.
You said that your CEO camefrom LVMH.
I think it was.
The LVMH CEO just came fromRitz-Carlton and Marriott Luxury
Brands, so I wonder if there'ssomething to that.
Tiffany Cooper (03:49):
I think that's just the evolution of how the
hotel industry is viewing brandsand how brands are viewing
hospitality, because all of thisis lifestyle.
When I was with Starwood, Iremember early on Weston and
aligning with Nordstrom andselling the Heavenly Bed.
So you know, there's just thisinterconnectivity that I think
(04:12):
happens and it's happening moreand more and there's really no
you know no line of demarcation.
Matt Brown (04:19):
I blame Apple I say blame, that's not the right word
.
I think Apple had a lot to dowith this of like, oh, are you a
technology company?
Well, we're a design company,and I think there's been an
expansion, a flattening, anembrace of different ways that
brands look at themselves overthe last 20 years, hotel brand
(04:45):
first.
But I wonder, do you haveconversations within your kind
of peer group there?
Of like, oh well, we're alsothe one B to.
One A to that is that we're aluxury brand and we need to be
approaching this with that kindof dual pronged approach.
Tiffany Cooper (04:56):
Yeah, I mean we always look at everything
through the lens of luxury, forcertain.
But also you know what I loveabout the hotel industry and
this sector, this real estatesector in particular.
When you're looking at all ofthe various sectors, whether
it's multifamily or industrialor retail, the hospitality
(05:18):
sector is the most dynamic.
It touches everything, it'slive work, you know, and you
kind of pull that through andyou identify, not only like a
demographic but a psychographic,the best brands, luxury or
non-luxury, really look at thatand examine that and identify
that and then speak to that.
Jeff Borman (05:40):
Matt, when you were talking about Apple, I was
thinking more about just thedigitization of our entire world
over the last couple of decades.
More in that way, I think, haveluxury hospitality companies
become entwined with luxurypackaged goods, because we're
all trying to sell things, be itexperiences or product, through
(06:02):
a digital marketplace.
That is actually.
That's now quite similar forall of us, right?
You used to have to go stay ina hotel, which was wildly
different than walking into aluxury retail shop, regardless
of what you're actually tryingto sell, what your business is.
You're trying to do it througha flat screen, and there's a lot
of similarity may not haveexisted 20 years ago.
We talk often on this show aboutthe saturation of the luxury
(06:27):
tier, specifically overuse ofthe word luxury.
How does Mandarin Orientalseparate itself, then, from Four
Seasons, ritz-carlton, waldorf,astoria and not to mention your
regional champion brands likeShangri-La and Taj and Oberoi?
How do you distance yourself?
What is the difference?
And we have a mostly Americanaudience here, a little bit of
(06:48):
global audience, but mostlyAmerican.
What do they need to know about?
Why Mandarin Oriental issomething different than the
brands that would roll off thetongue, naturally, to them?
Tiffany Cooper (06:57):
Look, it's a great question.
Calling upon my previousexperience at some of the larger
hotel companies, I do thinkthat there is a distinction to
be made between the luxurybrands that fall under the
master brands and then the ultraluxury brands that are truly
independent in nature and whospecialize only within that
(07:19):
ultra luxury space.
As hoteliers, they have onebrand that they're focused on,
such as Mandarin Oriental, youknow, Rosewood, Amman.
They're all very hyper-focusedon operating at that highest
luxury level and they're, youknow, not as spread out.
I think that really is a superimportant distinction.
(07:41):
I never really understood, Iguess before I got to MO, the
real differentiation betweenthat ultra luxury and luxury
category, but I do think it'skind of you could kind of tie it
to specialization.
Jeff Borman (07:56):
The reason I mentioned those brands and I may
be way off here, correct me ifI am that the Mandarin Oriental
Hotel is more like the size andI was just thinking capacity,
you know room count, functionspace, more like the brands that
I mentioned than the ultraluxury space that you mentioned.
(08:17):
You know, amman, it's hard,rosewood, right, it's hard to be
better than those brands inquality.
Mandarin Oriental tends to bemore in the larger building
experience and maybe a morediverse kind of segmentation of
customers than the very narrowultra lux that you were bringing
(08:37):
up.
Tiffany Cooper (08:38):
I think it's reverse and as I'm, you know,
working the America's market,you know the way I identify
opportunities and the way I'm,the lens that I'm looking at us
through is really boutiqueluxury.
So so we actually don't want tobe those massive resorts.
We don't want to be aconvention or conference or
(08:59):
meeting space.
You know meetings driven miceproperty space.
You know meetings driven miceproperty.
We, you know if we're going tocompress.
You know rates well over.
You know $1,500 a night.
It's hard to do that when youhave, you know, so many rooms
and you're catering to a grouptraveler.
So you know where we findourselves is actually right
(09:21):
alongside, I'd say, you know, aRosewood, a Peninsula, kind of
again that kind of boutiqueluxury as opposed to kind of the
big giant conference luxuryhotels.
Matt Brown (09:33):
But one of the things that has been making a
little bit of press recently isthe ambitions of the brand to
get further into the brandedresidence space.
Branded residences are hot.
Get further into the brandedresidence space.
Branded residences are hot, youknow.
They're offering pretty highmargins and brand stickiness for
a lot of hotel companies.
I think the big story that'skind of come out of the last
year is that Men in Oriental issort of reshaping a property in
(09:58):
Miami that will open in 2030, Ithink, and it will be a mix of
hotel rooms and privateresidences.
When you came on board, whatwere your discussions like
around the future of residential?
Was that part of the interviewprocess?
Like, hey, this is, this isvery much what we see the plan
of the brand being over the nextdecade?
Tiffany Cooper (10:17):
Yeah, I mean there's absolutely a strategic
focus.
I mean the luxury segment inparticular.
I think there's two sectorsright now that can thrive amid
high interest rates.
It's either the economy space,where you can build them less
expensive, or the luxury space,where you have a branded
(10:38):
residential product that you canhelp the capital stack and
subsidize the project with,based upon your sales.
I have some good stats fromSeville's that I think it's
really interesting which thebranded residential segment has
grown 180% over the last decadeand the sector is expected to
(11:02):
increase on average about 12%each year, with North America
accounting for 40% of all thepipeline projects.
I also oversee the Americas,and so the three hottest branded
residential markets are NewYork, Miami and Sao Paulo and
Brazil.
We've proven that we can gointo a market and we can win the
(11:27):
top of the market, which isessentially what's happening in
Miami and Brickell.
We've sold a billion in realestate, which we have another
billion to go, but our velocityis there and it's going to be an
incredible project when itopens in 2030.
Jeff Borman (11:42):
It's a long way from the Mandarin in Hong Kong
and the Oriental Hotel Bangkok.
Tiffany Cooper (11:47):
Yeah, still great hotels, still great
properties.
Jeff Borman (11:50):
Yeah, both are gorgeous hotels.
Actually, have you recentlychanged from the original
Mandarin Hong Kong?
Is that a new building now?
Tiffany Cooper (12:00):
No, I was actually in it a month ago.
It's still the same tower andthey're going to be undergoing a
big renovation.
And then there's an additionalnew tower that was built and
that one has been closed and isunder a property improvement
plan currently and they're goingto be opening again shortly.
But it's you know.
I walk into a room.
(12:21):
I can't tell you how manypeople talk about the original
Hong Kong hotel, just as beloved.
Jeff Borman (12:28):
It is rightly so, and I don't remember the name of
the restaurant, but when I wasliving in Hong Kong, the Chinese
restaurant I'm not sure ifthere's an Italian also, but the
Chinese restaurant there is oneof the best restaurants, one of
the best dining experiencesperiod in Hong Kong, which is
not lacking in great diningexperiences.
Tiffany Cooper (12:46):
That's true.
Jeff Borman (12:47):
So you talked a little bit about the pipeline,
but are you looking at newhotels or conversions as a real
driver?
The marketplace today is moreabout conversions than new
builds.
Price of construction, interestrates you mentioned a few of
those things.
It just limits the appetite togo build something.
Mandarin's had kind of a toughtime with conversions.
(13:09):
There used to be a MandarinOriental in Atlanta, there was
one in Las Vegas, and those areboth Waldorf Astorias now.
So are there conversions inyour future?
Is that a major part of theplan?
Tiffany Cooper (13:20):
Yeah, I mean, I guess, look, brands evolve at
the end of the day and so youknow a project maybe you know
that we had or placement we hadin the market previously may not
be a fit for us today.
We're trying to take a realholistic approach in terms of
(13:40):
how we look at markets where wereally feel like we flex.
We do have a pipeline in the US.
We've recently announced ourproject in Grand Cayman.
We have something that's goingto be opening or under
construction in Puerto Rico,riviera Maya, in Mexico.
So, really leaning into ourresort portfolio, which is
(14:04):
really new for us because Ithink everyone associates
Mandarin as an urban brand forthe longest time, but we're
having a lot of success with ourresort portfolio.
We're going to be opening inMallorca and we have Bali and
the Maldives and also emergingmarkets.
I mean, you know, part of thestrategy sometimes is to take a
(14:25):
contrarian approach and maybenot go where everyone else goes.
So I've been having a lot offun pushing the boundaries of
you know if everyone else isthere.
You know how are we going todifferentiate ourselves?
What could we do todifferentiate ourselves?
But then also, yeah, this is anemerging market.
No one's there.
That's the opportunity toreally kind of create something
(14:47):
really interesting and be first.
So it's, you know, I think it'sa combination of the two.
Jeff Borman (14:55):
So this is an AI set of facts, because I looked
this up.
I had the question, but I'mlooking to you to fact check AI.
I was curious about what theownership structure is, and so
I'm told by my co-pilot that theMandarin Oriental Hotel Group
is the parent company ofMandarin Oriental, the brand,
(15:18):
which is a subsidiary of JardineMatheson out of Bermuda, and of
the 43 properties globally, 20are partially owned by the
company.
First, is that true?
Tiffany Cooper (15:29):
That is true, those are all true things, good
job co-pilot.
Jeff Borman (15:34):
I assume, then, that that's going to change with
the great work that you'reabout to unleash, meaning that
you're going to be looking for alot of ownership dollars in
these buildings rather thanstraight cash to develop by
Mandarin Oriental itself.
Tiffany Cooper (15:50):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, similar to all
the other brands, you know wewant to be asset light.
We do have ownership stakes inmany of our properties Going
forward.
I don't know that you knowwe're going to do that and well,
I know that we're not going todo that in every market.
But there are some marketswhere if we need to use our
(16:12):
balance sheet, we can that ifthere it's a critical market.
But ideally we would.
We have enough of a strongnetwork with our owners and we
have enough performance, dataand interest in the brand where
we can come in as the brand andthe operator without investment.
(16:32):
It's just striking a balancebetween all of that.
But I think, as we continue togrow, it's going to be less our
ownership and more an assetlight model.
Jeff Borman (16:44):
Mandarin is a leader in the spa field,
particularly with the signaturetime ritual which, very
interestingly, encourages gueststo book time rather than a
specific treatment so that theservice can be tailor-made,
which I find fascinating andsomehow not copied, at least not
that I've ever heard.
Your brands have won five-starspa awards to 16 hotels last
(17:09):
year, more than any other groupin the world.
As the developer, are youfinding that lenders are turned
on or off by the massive expenseof building spas?
Tiffany Cooper (17:19):
It's a great question and when I got to
Mandarin I actually looked atthat pretty closely Because you
know you don't make money onspas it's an amenity, right.
But you know I should say we'resuper proud that we are the
most beloved hotel spa andwellness brand and if you look
at the trends in terms of what'sthe most important to guests in
(17:41):
general not just our guests,but all guests Wellness is more
important than ever and you knowit's not about going and
getting a steam and a facialmassage.
You know we have the ability tonot only let our guests
experience something, but alsolearn something in their visit
(18:01):
and kind of return home withperhaps even a new lifestyle to
try on, which is revolutionary,because there's so much new
methodology and technologyaround longevity and wellness
that we are embracing and we'rerolling out to our guests.
So it's just changed so much,which is why we really aren't
calling it spa as much aswellness.
(18:22):
But then, from a profitabilityperspective putting my
development hat back on we dohave strong data points that
support our spa business, evenin urban locations, because we
found that our guests spend fourtimes as much than a non-spa
guests.
It's an important revenuestream for our hotels, in
(18:43):
addition to it being an amenity.
So, whether the gas is seekingit out because we have a spa in
an urban location, or when theyget there, they decide hey, I
have some time.
I don't feel great, I'm jetlagged, which is kind of how I
feel when I travel.
I need to go down and makemyself feel better so I can
(19:05):
handle the week ahead.
Jeff Borman (19:07):
Did you think that maybe the reason the spa guest
folio is four times higher isbecause your spa is so high
priced?
Tiffany Cooper (19:18):
Well, I mean, I think there I would say, there's
value.
Matt Brown (19:22):
Jeff, how can you put a price on happiness,
exactly?
Tiffany Cooper (19:27):
It's the price-value conversation, right?
Can you put a price on feelinggood for a week when you feel
terrible and jet-lagged?
Matt Brown (19:34):
I don't know you can .
You can put a price on boththose things.
It turns out it's time for thelightning round.
It's time for the lightninground what's been?
I know you haven't visited allof them, and all Mandarin
Oriental properties are, ofcourse, your children now, so
they're all beautiful in theirown ways.
Tiffany Cooper (19:52):
Sure.
Matt Brown (19:54):
What's been your favorite property to visit, or
most interesting, or mostunexpected?
And I'm going to let you offthe hook it can't be one of the
Americas.
Tiffany Cooper (20:03):
When I started part of my homework, my
onboarding was I had to go, hadto.
I had the opportunity to go toHong Kong and visit the
corporate office and visit thatproperty, but as part of it I
also got to fly to Bangkok andvisit the Bangkok property,
which is, I think it's, one ofthe top hotels in the world.
(20:26):
Year after year and I don't knowwhat I was expecting, but I
will say that it was, you know,exceeded expectations, not as
much from just a productperspective, because I've seen
some beautiful hotels, like Ifeel very blessed that I've been
able to really see someincredible properties.
But I think what Bangkok doesand many of our properties, most
(20:49):
of our properties do, is thatthere's just such like an
emphasis on service and it'snext level and it's that Asian
hospitality, of course, thatThai hospitality.
But just from the moment that Istepped foot on that property,
it just everything just workedreally well and everyone is just
(21:10):
so sincere in their wanting tobe hospitable.
And you know, I'm not sure ifyou've ever been to that
property in Bangkok, but there'sthis lovely boat that can take
you across the way and the spasacross the river and little
markets and you can have dinnerover there and it's just a very
(21:31):
kind of magical place.
I just feel like the wholeplace in general smells like
incense, but it just is a veryit was a very lovely experience.
Matt Brown (21:44):
Give us a hot take on where the luxury market is
going over the next five to 10years, either existentially or
physically.
Give us like, maybe even sortof an under-the-radar trend that
luxury brands of any stripeshould be paying attention to.
Tiffany Cooper (22:03):
So I mean, we've heard for so long it's you know
, it's about the experience, butyou know, I think, also
generationally, I think there'ssome you know, key trends that
are happening.
You know less about opulence,you know more about, you know,
immersive experiences where youcan feel like you're actually in
(22:24):
the location, everything beingpersonalized and this, you know,
conscious connection with thelocation, even from a
philanthropic perspective.
So if you're staying, you know,in a resort location, do you,
can you plant trees in themangroves?
I mean, people want to feellike they are connected and
(22:45):
they're contributing something.
And you know we all of are tiedto kind of, I guess, emotional
(23:09):
intelligence, being able to readwhat the guest needs and wants
in that moment.
It's not prescribed, it's notscripted, and that's tricky, but
that's really what has madethese experiences more
meaningful.
I also think you know I'm a GenXer.
You know the way we used to goon vacation is we'd go and get a
(23:30):
cabana and have cocktails andsit on the beach and listen to
music, and I think that'schanged.
And also, you know even theolder generation.
You know the men would go playgolf and the women would go to
the spa.
Right, I think the youngergenerations have a very
different view of how theyvacation.
Like there's not that kind ofseparation.
You know it's not as much aboutdrinking.
(23:51):
There's, like these, you know,this whole sober social trend
where maybe it's not as muchabout the bar A lot of good data
points aroundmulti-generational trips.
A lot of good data points aroundmulti-generational trips.
So you know, you have, you know, three generations traveling
together and I think that'sreally important to pay
(24:11):
attention to, because how youdesign the hotels having
communal spaces, having, youknow, villas that can have three
, four, five bedrooms soeveryone can stay together is
really important.
So you know, those are someinteresting trends.
And then I will also saysustainability.
I mean it's something that it'snot a nice to have anymore.
(24:35):
You know this youngergeneration, it's really
important.
And Mandarin it's one of our,you know, besides wellness and
food and beverage, it's probablyour third most important pillar
for our company just makingsure we're good stewards of the
land.
Jeff Borman (24:51):
One of the all-time best marketing campaigns in all
of travel, in my opinion, isMandarin's.
I'm a fan.
My question to you, lastquestion Of the 28 fans since
the campaign launched in 1999,who is your favorite fan?
Tiffany Cooper (25:08):
Well, look, I just mentioned I'm a Gen Xer, so
I'm a child of the 70s and Igrew up with the Electric
Company.
Do you remember the ElectricCompany?
The Electric Company was thebest Came on after Sesame Street
, and so Morgan Freeman is myfavorite.
I mean that voice, the wholething, like he is.
(25:28):
I would love to have the chanceto meet him, but we also are
going to be announcing a new oneby the end of the year, so I'm
not allowed to tell you who itis, but it's great.
Matt Brown (25:42):
And you can't give us a clue.
Tiffany Cooper (25:44):
I'm a good Italian girl.
I know how to keep my secrets.
Matt Brown (25:46):
Sure sure.
Jeff Borman (25:48):
What are her initials?
I thought I could get you to atleast nod that it was her.
Fun fact for you.
Matt Mary McCartney, sir Paul'sdaughter, taking after her
mother, Linda, is the officialphotographer of the I'm a Fan
campaign.
Matt Brown (26:07):
Oh, I didn't know that Really, wow.
Tiffany Cooper (26:10):
Fun.
Matt Brown (26:10):
Huh.
Tiffany Cooper (26:11):
So you're saying it could be Paul McCartney.
Matt Brown (26:14):
It could be Paul McCartney.
Tiffany Cooper (26:16):
I'm not saying a word.
Matt Brown (26:20):
Oh man, Tiffany, this has been wonderful.
Thank you so much for takingtime to be with us.
Tiffany Cooper (26:24):
This was so fun.
You both are great, and I feelgenuinely so honored and
grateful to be at Mandarin,because I feel like it's just.
We have so much.
We keep saying the future isunfolding.
Like the fan right, the futureis unfolding, we're unfolding
possibilities, and so I'm soexcited to talk to everyone
(26:45):
about it and to be here with youguys talking today.
Hi everybody.
It's no Show with Matt Brownand Jeff Gorman.
How has Tiffany Cooper been sosuccessful for so long?
By bringing mind, soul andspirit to the hotel industry,
and a little bit of tenacity too.
She's the head of developmentAmericas for Mandarin Oriental
Hotel Group, which for fivedecades has been owner and
(00:28):
operator of some of the world'smost luxurious hotels, resorts
and residences.
Before that she had tours ofduty at Ambridge, kempton,
starwood and MarriottInternational.
She's a yoga nista, a meditationguru, a Long Island transplant
to the American West I shouldsay Strong Island speaker and
mentor, mba graduate, whileworking full-time and raising
(00:49):
kids.
Working moms can have it all.
But those are mere facts, andTiffany's life has been about
more than that.
It's been about the beauty andstrength inside all of us.
She understands that luxury asa concept, as a goal, as a treat
, is at once constant, butalways in a state of evolution,
as are we.
We're humans, we want anexperience with a capital E, and
(01:10):
we can't think of anybodybetter to bring that experience
today than Tiffany Cooper.
Welcome to no Show.
Tiffany Cooper (01:17):
Wow, I mean, what an introduction I may have
to bring you with me to all mypitches, if you can.
If you could do that when Ibring you, to bring you with me
to all my pitches, if you can.
If you could do that when Ibring you to a client meetings.
That was incredible.
It almost feels like an episodeof this is your life.
Matt Brown (01:29):
We charge very reasonable rates for for that
service, so so please, we'llexchange information after the
show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Tiffany Cooper (01:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, honored to be here,excited.
Jeff Borman (01:45):
The most pressing thing I must know, having spent
much of my life working for theRitz-Carlton Hotel Company.
It is never to be referred toas Ritz or the Ritz and nothing
about it.
Ritzy.
Are we allowed to say M-O ormust?
Tiffany Cooper (01:57):
it be.
Jeff Borman (01:57):
Mandarin Oriental.
Tiffany Cooper (01:59):
No, look, mandarin Oriental, m-o Mandarin.
We are not a stuffy brand, soMO is perfectly fine.
In fact, that's how we refer toourselves internally.
So MO is perfect.
Jeff Borman (02:13):
Well, in that case, over the last few years, mo has
outlined a very ambitious setof goals for North American
expansion.
What's fueling the appetite?
After so many years beingAsia-centric, what makes you
think that now is the rightmoment to make a big splash in
the Americas?
Tiffany Cooper (02:31):
Well, there's a few things, so I guess we'll
start at the very top with ourCEO.
His name is Laurent Kleiman andhe's been with us now for about
two years.
He comes to us from LVMH,worked at Dior, so he's a luxury
goods brand executive and hehas really laid out a very
(02:51):
ambitious but super achievableplan to double our portfolio
within the next decade, andwe're already well on our way.
So, globally, we're on thistransformative era of growth.
Today we have 44 hotels,because we've just added three
this year we added the Laetitiain Paris, the Conservatorium in
(03:12):
Amsterdam and we just added oneabout two weeks ago in Venice,
and then we're going to beadding another four by the end
of the year and already have 27in our pipeline.
So we're already well on ourway.
But at the end of the day,we're focused on very smart,
strategic growth.
We want it to be in the rightlocations, right sponsorship,
(03:35):
absolutely the right products.
Jeff Borman (03:37):
It's funny.
You said that your CEO camefrom LVMH.
I think it was.
The LVMH CEO just came fromRitz-Carlton and Marriott Luxury
Brands, so I wonder if there'ssomething to that.
Tiffany Cooper (03:49):
I think that's just the evolution of how the
hotel industry is viewing brandsand how brands are viewing
hospitality, because all of thisis lifestyle.
When I was with Starwood, Iremember early on Weston and
aligning with Nordstrom andselling the Heavenly Bed.
So you know, there's just thisinterconnectivity that I think
(04:12):
happens and it's happening moreand more and there's really no
you know no line of demarcation.
Matt Brown (04:19):
I blame Apple I say blame, that's not the right word
.
I think Apple had a lot to dowith this of like, oh, are you a
technology company?
Well, we're a design company,and I think there's been an
expansion, a flattening, anembrace of different ways that
brands look at themselves overthe last 20 years, hotel brand
(04:45):
first.
But I wonder, do you haveconversations within your kind
of peer group there?
Of like, oh well, we're alsothe one B to.
One A to that is that we're aluxury brand and we need to be
approaching this with that kindof dual pronged approach.
Tiffany Cooper (04:56):
Yeah, I mean we always look at everything
through the lens of luxury, forcertain.
But also you know what I loveabout the hotel industry and
this sector, this real estatesector in particular.
When you're looking at all ofthe various sectors, whether
it's multifamily or industrialor retail, the hospitality
(05:18):
sector is the most dynamic.
It touches everything, it'slive work, you know, and you
kind of pull that through andyou identify, not only like a
demographic but a psychographic,the best brands, luxury or
non-luxury, really look at thatand examine that and identify
that and then speak to that.
Jeff Borman (05:40):
Matt, when you were talking about Apple, I was
thinking more about just thedigitization of our entire world
over the last couple of decades.
More in that way, I think, haveluxury hospitality companies
become entwined with luxurypackaged goods, because we're
all trying to sell things, be itexperiences or product, through
(06:02):
a digital marketplace.
That is actually.
That's now quite similar forall of us, right?
You used to have to go stay ina hotel, which was wildly
different than walking into aluxury retail shop, regardless
of what you're actually tryingto sell, what your business is.
You're trying to do it througha flat screen, and there's a lot
of similarity may not haveexisted 20 years ago.
We talk often on this show aboutthe saturation of the luxury
(06:27):
tier, specifically overuse ofthe word luxury.
How does Mandarin Orientalseparate itself, then, from Four
Seasons, ritz-carlton, waldorf,astoria and not to mention your
regional champion brands likeShangri-La and Taj and Oberoi?
How do you distance yourself?
What is the difference?
And we have a mostly Americanaudience here, a little bit of
(06:48):
global audience, but mostlyAmerican.
What do they need to know about?
Why Mandarin Oriental issomething different than the
brands that would roll off thetongue, naturally, to them?
Tiffany Cooper (06:57):
Look, it's a great question.
Calling upon my previousexperience at some of the larger
hotel companies, I do thinkthat there is a distinction to
be made between the luxurybrands that fall under the
master brands and then the ultraluxury brands that are truly
independent in nature and whospecialize only within that
(07:19):
ultra luxury space.
As hoteliers, they have onebrand that they're focused on,
such as Mandarin Oriental, youknow, Rosewood, Amman.
They're all very hyper-focusedon operating at that highest
luxury level and they're, youknow, not as spread out.
I think that really is a superimportant distinction.
(07:41):
I never really understood, Iguess before I got to MO, the
real differentiation betweenthat ultra luxury and luxury
category, but I do think it'skind of you could kind of tie it
to specialization.
Jeff Borman (07:56):
The reason I mentioned those brands and I may
be way off here, correct me ifI am that the Mandarin Oriental
Hotel is more like the size andI was just thinking capacity,
you know room count, functionspace, more like the brands that
I mentioned than the ultraluxury space that you mentioned.
(08:17):
You know, amman, it's hard,rosewood, right, it's hard to be
better than those brands inquality.
Mandarin Oriental tends to bemore in the larger building
experience and maybe a morediverse kind of segmentation of
customers than the very narrowultra lux that you were bringing
(08:37):
up.
Tiffany Cooper (08:38):
I think it's reverse and as I'm, you know,
working the America's market,you know the way I identify
opportunities and the way I'm,the lens that I'm looking at us
through is really boutiqueluxury.
So so we actually don't want tobe those massive resorts.
We don't want to be aconvention or conference or
(08:59):
meeting space.
You know meetings driven miceproperty space.
You know meetings driven miceproperty.
We, you know if we're going tocompress.
You know rates well over.
You know $1,500 a night.
It's hard to do that when youhave, you know, so many rooms
and you're catering to a grouptraveler.
So you know where we findourselves is actually right
(09:21):
alongside, I'd say, you know, aRosewood, a Peninsula, kind of
again that kind of boutiqueluxury as opposed to kind of the
big giant conference luxuryhotels.
Matt Brown (09:33):
But one of the things that has been making a
little bit of press recently isthe ambitions of the brand to
get further into the brandedresidence space.
Branded residences are hot.
Get further into the brandedresidence space.
Branded residences are hot, youknow.
They're offering pretty highmargins and brand stickiness for
a lot of hotel companies.
I think the big story that'skind of come out of the last
year is that Men in Oriental issort of reshaping a property in
(09:58):
Miami that will open in 2030, Ithink, and it will be a mix of
hotel rooms and privateresidences.
When you came on board, whatwere your discussions like
around the future of residential?
Was that part of the interviewprocess?
Like, hey, this is, this isvery much what we see the plan
of the brand being over the nextdecade?
Tiffany Cooper (10:17):
Yeah, I mean there's absolutely a strategic
focus.
I mean the luxury segment inparticular.
I think there's two sectorsright now that can thrive amid
high interest rates.
It's either the economy space,where you can build them less
expensive, or the luxury space,where you have a branded
(10:38):
residential product that you canhelp the capital stack and
subsidize the project with,based upon your sales.
I have some good stats fromSeville's that I think it's
really interesting which thebranded residential segment has
grown 180% over the last decadeand the sector is expected to
(11:02):
increase on average about 12%each year, with North America
accounting for 40% of all thepipeline projects.
I also oversee the Americas,and so the three hottest branded
residential markets are NewYork, Miami and Sao Paulo and
Brazil.
We've proven that we can gointo a market and we can win the
(11:27):
top of the market, which isessentially what's happening in
Miami and Brickell.
We've sold a billion in realestate, which we have another
billion to go, but our velocityis there and it's going to be an
incredible project when itopens in 2030.
Jeff Borman (11:42):
It's a long way from the Mandarin in Hong Kong
and the Oriental Hotel Bangkok.
Tiffany Cooper (11:47):
Yeah, still great hotels, still great
properties.
Jeff Borman (11:50):
Yeah, both are gorgeous hotels.
Actually, have you recentlychanged from the original
Mandarin Hong Kong?
Is that a new building now?
Tiffany Cooper (12:00):
No, I was actually in it a month ago.
It's still the same tower andthey're going to be undergoing a
big renovation.
And then there's an additionalnew tower that was built and
that one has been closed and isunder a property improvement
plan currently and they're goingto be opening again shortly.
But it's you know.
I walk into a room.
(12:21):
I can't tell you how manypeople talk about the original
Hong Kong hotel, just as beloved.
Jeff Borman (12:28):
It is rightly so, and I don't remember the name of
the restaurant, but when I wasliving in Hong Kong, the Chinese
restaurant I'm not sure ifthere's an Italian also, but the
Chinese restaurant there is oneof the best restaurants, one of
the best dining experiencesperiod in Hong Kong, which is
not lacking in great diningexperiences.
Tiffany Cooper (12:46):
That's true.
Jeff Borman (12:47):
So you talked a little bit about the pipeline,
but are you looking at newhotels or conversions as a real
driver?
The marketplace today is moreabout conversions than new
builds.
Price of construction, interestrates you mentioned a few of
those things.
It just limits the appetite togo build something.
Mandarin's had kind of a toughtime with conversions.
(13:09):
There used to be a MandarinOriental in Atlanta, there was
one in Las Vegas, and those areboth Waldorf Astorias now.
So are there conversions inyour future?
Is that a major part of theplan?
Tiffany Cooper (13:20):
Yeah, I mean, I guess, look, brands evolve at
the end of the day and so youknow a project maybe you know
that we had or placement we hadin the market previously may not
be a fit for us today.
We're trying to take a realholistic approach in terms of
(13:40):
how we look at markets where wereally feel like we flex.
We do have a pipeline in the US.
We've recently announced ourproject in Grand Cayman.
We have something that's goingto be opening or under
construction in Puerto Rico,riviera Maya, in Mexico.
So, really leaning into ourresort portfolio, which is
(14:04):
really new for us because Ithink everyone associates
Mandarin as an urban brand forthe longest time, but we're
having a lot of success with ourresort portfolio.
We're going to be opening inMallorca and we have Bali and
the Maldives and also emergingmarkets.
I mean, you know, part of thestrategy sometimes is to take a
(14:25):
contrarian approach and maybenot go where everyone else goes.
So I've been having a lot offun pushing the boundaries of
you know if everyone else isthere.
You know how are we going todifferentiate ourselves?
What could we do todifferentiate ourselves?
But then also, yeah, this is anemerging market.
No one's there.
That's the opportunity toreally kind of create something
(14:47):
really interesting and be first.
So it's, you know, I think it'sa combination of the two.
Jeff Borman (14:55):
So this is an AI set of facts, because I looked
this up.
I had the question, but I'mlooking to you to fact check AI.
I was curious about what theownership structure is, and so
I'm told by my co-pilot that theMandarin Oriental Hotel Group
is the parent company ofMandarin Oriental, the brand,
(15:18):
which is a subsidiary of JardineMatheson out of Bermuda, and of
the 43 properties globally, 20are partially owned by the
company.
First, is that true?
Tiffany Cooper (15:29):
That is true, those are all true things, good
job co-pilot.
Jeff Borman (15:34):
I assume, then, that that's going to change with
the great work that you'reabout to unleash, meaning that
you're going to be looking for alot of ownership dollars in
these buildings rather thanstraight cash to develop by
Mandarin Oriental itself.
Tiffany Cooper (15:50):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, similar to all
the other brands, you know wewant to be asset light.
We do have ownership stakes inmany of our properties Going
forward.
I don't know that you knowwe're going to do that and well,
I know that we're not going todo that in every market.
But there are some marketswhere if we need to use our
(16:12):
balance sheet, we can that ifthere it's a critical market.
But ideally we would.
We have enough of a strongnetwork with our owners and we
have enough performance, dataand interest in the brand where
we can come in as the brand andthe operator without investment.
(16:32):
It's just striking a balancebetween all of that.
But I think, as we continue togrow, it's going to be less our
ownership and more an assetlight model.
Jeff Borman (16:44):
Mandarin is a leader in the spa field,
particularly with the signaturetime ritual which, very
interestingly, encourages gueststo book time rather than a
specific treatment so that theservice can be tailor-made,
which I find fascinating andsomehow not copied, at least not
that I've ever heard.
Your brands have won five-starspa awards to 16 hotels last
(17:09):
year, more than any other groupin the world.
As the developer, are youfinding that lenders are turned
on or off by the massive expenseof building spas?
Tiffany Cooper (17:19):
It's a great question and when I got to
Mandarin I actually looked atthat pretty closely Because you
know you don't make money onspas it's an amenity, right.
But you know I should say we'resuper proud that we are the
most beloved hotel spa andwellness brand and if you look
at the trends in terms of what'sthe most important to guests in
(17:41):
general not just our guests,but all guests Wellness is more
important than ever and you knowit's not about going and
getting a steam and a facialmassage.
You know we have the ability tonot only let our guests
experience something, but alsolearn something in their visit
(18:01):
and kind of return home withperhaps even a new lifestyle to
try on, which is revolutionary,because there's so much new
methodology and technologyaround longevity and wellness
that we are embracing and we'rerolling out to our guests.
So it's just changed so much,which is why we really aren't
calling it spa as much aswellness.
(18:22):
But then, from a profitabilityperspective putting my
development hat back on we dohave strong data points that
support our spa business, evenin urban locations, because we
found that our guests spend fourtimes as much than a non-spa
guests.
It's an important revenuestream for our hotels, in
(18:43):
addition to it being an amenity.
So, whether the gas is seekingit out because we have a spa in
an urban location, or when theyget there, they decide hey, I
have some time.
I don't feel great, I'm jetlagged, which is kind of how I
feel when I travel.
I need to go down and makemyself feel better so I can
(19:05):
handle the week ahead.
Jeff Borman (19:07):
Did you think that maybe the reason the spa guest
folio is four times higher isbecause your spa is so high
priced?
Tiffany Cooper (19:18):
Well, I mean, I think there I would say, there's
value.
Matt Brown (19:22):
Jeff, how can you put a price on happiness,
exactly?
Tiffany Cooper (19:27):
It's the price-value conversation, right?
Can you put a price on feelinggood for a week when you feel
terrible and jet-lagged?
Matt Brown (19:34):
I don't know you can .
You can put a price on boththose things.
It turns out it's time for thelightning round.
It's time for the lightninground what's been?
I know you haven't visited allof them, and all Mandarin
Oriental properties are, ofcourse, your children now, so
they're all beautiful in theirown ways.
Tiffany Cooper (19:52):
Sure.
Matt Brown (19:54):
What's been your favorite property to visit, or
most interesting, or mostunexpected?
And I'm going to let you offthe hook it can't be one of the
Americas.
Tiffany Cooper (20:03):
When I started part of my homework, my
onboarding was I had to go, hadto.
I had the opportunity to go toHong Kong and visit the
corporate office and visit thatproperty, but as part of it I
also got to fly to Bangkok andvisit the Bangkok property,
which is, I think it's, one ofthe top hotels in the world.
(20:26):
Year after year and I don't knowwhat I was expecting, but I
will say that it was, you know,exceeded expectations, not as
much from just a productperspective, because I've seen
some beautiful hotels, like Ifeel very blessed that I've been
able to really see someincredible properties.
But I think what Bangkok doesand many of our properties, most
(20:49):
of our properties do, is thatthere's just such like an
emphasis on service and it'snext level and it's that Asian
hospitality, of course, thatThai hospitality.
But just from the moment that Istepped foot on that property,
it just everything just workedreally well and everyone is just
(21:10):
so sincere in their wanting tobe hospitable.
And you know, I'm not sure ifyou've ever been to that
property in Bangkok, but there'sthis lovely boat that can take
you across the way and the spasacross the river and little
markets and you can have dinnerover there and it's just a very
(21:31):
kind of magical place.
I just feel like the wholeplace in general smells like
incense, but it just is a veryit was a very lovely experience.
Matt Brown (21:44):
Give us a hot take on where the luxury market is
going over the next five to 10years, either existentially or
physically.
Give us like, maybe even sortof an under-the-radar trend that
luxury brands of any stripeshould be paying attention to.
Tiffany Cooper (22:03):
So I mean, we've heard for so long it's you know
, it's about the experience, butyou know, I think, also
generationally, I think there'ssome you know, key trends that
are happening.
You know less about opulence,you know more about, you know,
immersive experiences where youcan feel like you're actually in
(22:24):
the location, everything beingpersonalized and this, you know,
conscious connection with thelocation, even from a
philanthropic perspective.
So if you're staying, you know,in a resort location, do you,
can you plant trees in themangroves?
I mean, people want to feellike they are connected and
(22:45):
they're contributing something.
And you know we all of are tiedto kind of, I guess, emotional
(23:09):
intelligence, being able to readwhat the guest needs and wants
in that moment.
It's not prescribed, it's notscripted, and that's tricky, but
that's really what has madethese experiences more
meaningful.
I also think you know I'm a GenXer.
You know the way we used to goon vacation is we'd go and get a
(23:30):
cabana and have cocktails andsit on the beach and listen to
music, and I think that'schanged.
And also, you know even theolder generation.
You know the men would go playgolf and the women would go to
the spa.
Right, I think the youngergenerations have a very
different view of how theyvacation.
Like there's not that kind ofseparation.
You know it's not as much aboutdrinking.
(23:51):
There's, like these, you know,this whole sober social trend
where maybe it's not as muchabout the bar A lot of good data
points aroundmulti-generational trips.
A lot of good data points aroundmulti-generational trips.
So you know, you have, you know, three generations traveling
together and I think that'sreally important to pay
(24:11):
attention to, because how youdesign the hotels having
communal spaces, having, youknow, villas that can have three
, four, five bedrooms soeveryone can stay together is
really important.
So you know, those are someinteresting trends.
And then I will also saysustainability.
I mean it's something that it'snot a nice to have anymore.
(24:35):
You know this youngergeneration, it's really
important.
And Mandarin it's one of our,you know, besides wellness and
food and beverage, it's probablyour third most important pillar
for our company just makingsure we're good stewards of the
land.
Jeff Borman (24:51):
One of the all-time best marketing campaigns in all
of travel, in my opinion, isMandarin's.
I'm a fan.
My question to you, lastquestion Of the 28 fans since
the campaign launched in 1999,who is your favorite fan?
Tiffany Cooper (25:08):
Well, look, I just mentioned I'm a Gen Xer, so
I'm a child of the 70s and Igrew up with the Electric
Company.
Do you remember the ElectricCompany?
The Electric Company was thebest Came on after Sesame Street
, and so Morgan Freeman is myfavorite.
I mean that voice, the wholething, like he is.
(25:28):
I would love to have the chanceto meet him, but we also are
going to be announcing a new oneby the end of the year, so I'm
not allowed to tell you who itis, but it's great.
Matt Brown (25:42):
And you can't give us a clue.
Tiffany Cooper (25:44):
I'm a good Italian girl.
I know how to keep my secrets.
Matt Brown (25:46):
Sure sure.
Jeff Borman (25:48):
What are her initials?
I thought I could get you to atleast nod that it was her.
Fun fact for you.
Matt Mary McCartney, sir Paul'sdaughter, taking after her
mother, Linda, is the officialphotographer of the I'm a Fan
campaign.
Matt Brown (26:07):
Oh, I didn't know that Really, wow.
Tiffany Cooper (26:10):
Fun.
Matt Brown (26:10):
Huh.
Tiffany Cooper (26:11):
So you're saying it could be Paul McCartney.
Matt Brown (26:14):
It could be Paul McCartney.
Tiffany Cooper (26:16):
I'm not saying a word.
Matt Brown (26:20):
Oh man, Tiffany, this has been wonderful.
Thank you so much for takingtime to be with us.
Tiffany Cooper (26:24):
This was so fun.
You both are great, and I feelgenuinely so honored and
grateful to be at Mandarin,because I feel like it's just.
We have so much.
We keep saying the future isunfolding.
Like the fan right, the futureis unfolding, we're unfolding
possibilities, and so I'm soexcited to talk to everyone
(26:45):
about it and to be here with youguys talking today.
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