April 3, 2025 • 22 mins
Regenerative tourism focuses on leaving places better than you found them, supporting local economies, preserving culture, and protecting the environment. How does that translate to street-level tourism? Does the term "regenerative" suffer from the same thing that plagues "sustainability"—where rhetoric is strong and the action remains weak? Travelers regularly rate sustainability as a top five criteria in making travel decisions, but their buying behavior tells a very different story.
Then again, there are huge upsides in rethinking everything about the way we travel, especially now. We look at what's working, what's not, and what's ahead.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Matt, what I really want in this episode.
I want the quality of intro yougive our guests.
That's just one time, it's allI want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's a huge amount of pressure and I am not
prepared for it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I think honesty is important and I am not prepared
to give you that kind of intro.
You could not possibly do thatkind of thing of intro.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No, but I will At some point.
Jeff, I will give you that kindof intro and I'm going to make
it very special.
Hi everybody, welcome to noShow.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm joined as always by JeffBorman.
In recent conversation wediscussed the term.
It's not even a term, it's apractice of overtourism.
But today we're not going totalk about overtourism, we're
(00:46):
going to pivot a little bit andtalk about something called
regenerative tourism and thatterm has also been around over
the last four or five years.
The pandemic.
It kind of kind of theawareness of it really shot
through the roof.
Nobody can really come to aconsensus on what it is exactly,
but the general contours ofregenerative tourism seem to be.
It focuses on giving back,supporting local economies,
(01:09):
preserving culture, protectingthe environment.
It can include activities likereforestation or volunteering on
community projects.
It might have a component ofengaging with local cultures
through workshops and festivalsand farm-to-table dining and
artisan experiences and all ofthese things are great and they
(01:30):
mediate, but they don't totallyget rid of the idea of kind of
all-out extractive tourism, andthat model has been around for a
long time.
With regenerative tourismyou're basically saying you want
to have a mindset to leave adestination better than it was
before you arrived, and you wantto have experiences that go
beyond a traditional vacation.
(01:53):
Jeff, is that?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
right.
I don't think there's a wronganswer to that.
I think it's.
Regenerative travel is not verywell defined.
It's being defined.
Amanda Ho, who is theco-founder of the travel
platform aptly namedRegenerative Travel, says it's a
type of travel that is an actof replenishing and renewing the
environment and community.
Others that I've heard travelit gives back.
(02:15):
You said that travel invests inthe environment and local
communities.
Travel it makes a difference.
My first take on this and, matt, I think I'm more the cynic of
our duo you are we're doing sowell as a society solving
sustainability.
Let's just add a few more majorobstacles and challenges, right
(02:37):
, like cultural preservation andother lofty ideas under
do-gooder-y.
Sustainability is, in many ways, about preventing harm, so
let's just add on to that alsodoing positive, like world
hunger, peace in the Middle East.
Let's just go ahead, matt, andcreate Project Utopia.
Is that what we're doing here?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Now's the time to do it.
Now's the time, now's exactlythe time to do it.
Everything's on fire, literally.
We don't have any choice.
I think we have to, I think wehave to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Everything's on fire.
Yeah, literally, we don't haveany choice.
I think we have to do it.
People only have time for somany isms, though.
Perhaps regenerative isimportant and maybe even timely,
just because we can get apositive spin for people who are
over the negativeness and thefailures of greenwashing slogans
and empty pledges.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Here's my beef and you hit upon it with sustainable
.
I don't like the wordsustainable because, like green,
it gets slapped on everything,everything as a marketing tool,
and even with good intentions,the word just starts to lose
meaning, and that's the casewith all descriptive words in
commerce.
What I like about regenerative,at least for now, is this
(03:47):
practical intent behind actions.
There's this statement ofintent that can inform your
planning and thinking of trips.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
You recently formalized the word
sustainability, defining it sothat it can enforce a mandate
that it created on companies toperform due diligence throughout
their supply chain.
So you use the wordsustainability in Europe.
Now it has a definition, Matt.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And a lot of the examples that I see for
regenerative travel are what Ithink of as kind of like bougie
safaris.
It's like high-end travelexcursions to luxury lodges,
climate-friendly boutique hotels, a photo safari with a farm
tree planting All those thingsare great.
(04:33):
Booking trips with globaltravel operators that are B
Corporation certified is great.
Carbon neutral is great, but alot of these are just kind of
lifestyle brands going for richtravelers.
It feels like a marketing pitchfor guilting rich people, which
is okay too.
I have no problem with that.
Rich people need more guilt,and there are certainly best
(04:55):
intentions behind a lot of it.
But, man, it just feels likekind of more the same.
You know, like we're putting ona shiny new paint to a very old
model, which is the Grand Tour.
We're going to take rich peopleout to see the world, and the
vast majority of Americantourists are not going to go on
these luxury safaris.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Doesn't the end justify the means enough?
Even if there was a veneer ofhypocrisy in the middle.
Instead of rich tourists onsafari in Africa shooting rhinos
, they're shooting photos ofrhinos.
And instead of decimating thepopulation, they are, through
their tourist dollars, providingthe local economy with an
(05:37):
alternative means to killingthose animals, instead
protecting and elevating themwithin our society.
Maybe there's a littlehypocrisy somewhere in the
middle, but doesn't the endjustify the means there?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Let's talk about some examples here of how this is
playing out.
You know I came across a studyas we were kind of researching a
little bit for this theUniversity of Hawaii at Manoa.
They did this big survey withinthe last couple of years.
They surveyed residents on oneof the islands and the residents
responded favorably towardsregenerative travel.
Hawaii has struggled mightilywith its relationship to travel
(06:12):
from the world, travel frommainland US.
That is a complicatedrelationship, to say the least.
But examples of regenerativetourism in Hawaii have included
replanting native tree speciesto offset the carbon footprint
that is often produced by well,not often it is produced by
flying to Hawaii, People goingout there, staying in a cool
(06:33):
place, enjoying some beach time,but then also taking part of
their time to help removeinvasive plant species off
hiking trails, to remove plasticand abandoned fishing nets off
beaches.
The general vibe amongst theHawaiians, at least in this
survey, was that that's better,that that's at least more
connected to the place, versusyou're going to come, stay in a
(06:55):
hotel, go to the restaurant,litter and then take off.
You've got another companycalled Byway.
It's a UK company.
Their whole deal is to makeflight-free holidays a
mainstream holiday choice, whichmight be a little bit easier in
Europe than it is here, Maybenot, though they're prioritizing
overland travel across theBritish Isles and Europe.
More stops, more communities,more passengers per trip, less
(07:17):
jet fuel.
I don't know how the carbonfootprint balances out with that
, but the idea is that you areconnecting more to yourself, to
the scenery, to the community,when you are embracing slow
travel.
I saw another study that says73% of millennials are willing
to pay more for sustainablegoods, including eco-friendly
travel, so there's definitelynon-bougie stuff out there that
(07:42):
I think works in the context ofwhat regenerative travel is.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
First, I have a concern about regenerative, as
we've already put it next tosustainability, where
sustainability the rhetoric'svery strong and the actions
remain very weak.
And we're talking about exampleshere of positive, real-world
examples of regenerative travel.
And the last thing youmentioned, or one of the last,
was that around millennials,engaging a 75% say they would
(08:09):
pay more to have carbon neutraltravel.
You said something to thateffect, but the difference here
is in surveys you hear that, butwhat travelers regularly rate
sustainability as a top fivecriteria in making travel
decisions?
Their buying behavior tells avery different story, and so, as
we're giving these examplesregularly rate sustainability as
a top five criteria in makingtravel decisions.
Their buying behavior tells avery different story.
And so, as we're giving theseexamples, it kind of takes me
(08:31):
back to the top where I'm sayinghow do you build on top of
sustainability and even moreambitious idea, when the reality
is people aren't fully engaged,don't fully accept that
sustainable travel, regenerativetravel, it's going to cost them
more.
It's going to cost them more inthe real currency, no matter
where they're from, and it'sgoing to cost them more in time
(08:52):
and comfort, most likely.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Human instinct is to go for the lowest price.
It's just, it just is, and itdoes not matter if something has
a ton of fees on it.
It's like, hey, we've been sotransparent about what our
airfare and our hotel price isgoing to be.
If you see something onlinethat's $100 less, less cannot
(09:15):
not go towards it.
Travel experts have linked someof their studies to how people
view traffic.
Like how people view all travel, I guess, but like I will be
the one who figures out mycommute.
No, the traffic this Friday.
If we're getting out of thecity, it won't affect us.
I think if we leave at 205versus 215, it'll save us and it
(09:38):
never ever saves you.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Two things that have been in the news recently.
Along those lines, though, mattright, american Express, amex
GBT.
They just recently unveiled anew emissions-based pricing tool
that lets their clients apply acarbon fee to the travel based
on their own selected carbonmethodology, rather than just a
flat fee that Amex itself woulddetermine.
(10:03):
I think this is an example ofwhere you describe the consumer
is just.
There is a disposition from thevery beginning that says I'm
going to buy the lowest price.
If the tool that presents youroptions is pre-filtered to only
give you certain selections,then I think that's going to
make a meaningful step forward.
Like this, amex enhancement hasthe opportunity to really truly
(10:27):
make the choice for thecustomer by not showing them
choices that their company saysare not options for them.
That doesn't help yourindividual trail, I think, most
when it comes to sustainable.
You can talk a lot aboutcorporate input, right, our
travelers will only X Y, z.
When it comes to leisure traveland you make that decision for
yourself, regenerative isprobably more in the leisure
(10:47):
than the business space, becauseyou're choosing to go do
something for a purpose thatsuits your own, the things you
care about individually, andyou're probably not going to be
filtered, like Amex would, whena company says only show my
business travelers these options.
So I think that's going to be achallenge.
New Zealand the country'sofficial tourism body, has what
(11:11):
they call the Taiki promise.
I don't know if I'm pronouncingthat properly, but it's a
promise to care for New Zealand,and when people arrive, they
take a pledge that reads whiletraveling in New Zealand, I will
care for the land, sea andnature, treading lightly and
leaving no trace, travel safely,showing care and consideration
for all, respect, culture,traveling with an open heart and
(11:35):
mind.
That makes me want to go to NewZealand even more.
At the same time, though, matt,does a pledge have any real
world impact, and I think that'sthe rub here.
Just again, like these reallylofty ideas that we want to care
and do good, does taking apledge upon entry before you hit
my passport stamp my passportgot to take the pledge.
(11:58):
Will I really do anything inNew Zealand that is different?
I don't think the pledge isgoing to get you there.
Boracay in the Philippines doessomething similar.
It's difficult.
I mean, let's just put it easy.
I don't have the solutions andI'm not trying to throw barbs at
those who've tried.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, I hear what you're saying and pledges are
high-minded ways to makeeverybody feel good.
Here's what I'd like to see, Ithink, bringing it down to
things that are super granular,super tactical.
I think that's a way to focuspeople on the idea of
regenerative travel.
You know, environmentalrestoration is a big part of
(12:34):
regenerative tourism, but I kindof like a broader definition of
environment, and that broaderdefinition would actually
include some of these tacticalthings, and I'm not sure what
I'm thinking about here isclassified as regenerative as
such.
But I'd like to include some ofthis stuff that's closer to
home.
For instance, as you'replanning a trip, are you staying
in a locally owned lodgingoption versus a chain Ditto for
(12:57):
restaurants?
Are you packing intentionally?
Are you packing a reusablewater bottle and cutlery?
Are you buying responsiblysourced clothing?
Are you buying used gear?
Are you buying local souvenirs?
Are you using interesting tourguides who aren't part of some
kind of national company?
Are they kind of locals who aredoing this?
(13:17):
Are you going to off tracklocations?
You know, and culturalfestivals oftentimes come up as
an option for tourists who wantto kind of go down the
regenerative arc.
And one of the things that Iwould always tell people.
You know I grew up in Louisiana.
One of the things I always tellpeople is, if you want to go to
Mardi Gras, don't go to NewOrleans.
Do not go to New Orleans.
(13:40):
It'll be crowded, you'll pay abillion dollars to stay there,
everybody will be drunk by eighto'clock and if you really want
a Mardi Gras experience, youshould go out.
You should go two hours outinto Cajun country.
It doesn't even have to be somesmall town, but it could be
like a little city and thatMardi Gras parade and festival
is exactly maximum Louisiana andyou will get a tourist
(14:01):
experience you will never forget, and I think that applies to so
many many places.
I like those things as underthe regenerative umbrella and I
think of them as environmentalas any of these other exercises.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
What do you think?
First of all, I love theBourdain episode on Cajun Mardi
Gras.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh, it's a classic and it's raw.
Man it is, it is raw.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It is him at his best going and saying you know, this
is a part of America none ofyou have seen and you really
should.
You think you know.
If you think you know what'sreally going on, you have no
idea, and it's kind of classicBourdain.
But the other thing that youkind of reminded me of is that,
thankfully, probably nobodytakes my advice on where to go.
Foreigners coming to the USEuropeans, asians they all want
(14:56):
to go to New York, la, sanFrancisco and Miami and I
encourage every one of them.
If you want to see the UnitedStates, go to Cincinnati, go to
Detroit, go to Des Moines.
These are the places that thisis real America.
It's not going to be the photoop, it's not going to be the
selfie you're looking for.
It's not going to be the photoop.
It's not going to be the selfieyou're looking for, but you're
(15:16):
going to get a flavor of theculture in a way that is far
more genuine than Times Square,south Beach and Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yes, and I think you know what's the?
What's the word that comes upthe most in this local, local,
local.
At the very least, keepinglocality on the brain feels like
a great first step to get tothis, versus being forced to eat
your broccoli.
You're right.
Nobody's going to want to take,especially if convenience and
(15:44):
cost are part of it, becausethis is your vacation.
I deal with matters ofconvenience and cost in every
other part of my life.
The very idea of going onvacation is that I don't want to
deal with that.
And now you're making me work,and I can imagine, even for a
lot of people who have greatintention, that for this week
out of the year, I just want togo stay in a luxury hotel and I
(16:06):
don't want to think aboutproblems and people, and I get
that, and that is also a veryluxurious way to think of the
world, and one that I think weneed to reframe and reframe soon
.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
There's nothing inherently negative about
regenerative, you know, otherthan maybe there's buzzword
fatigue out there, but the ideaof leaving a place better than
you arrived, I think it'ssomething that most people could
get on board with.
Leveraging tourism to be aforce for good is something you
and I talk about all the time.
Skift research analyst RobertGilbert Jones said on a podcast
(16:43):
that I listened to that hardcoregreenwashers have not yet
caught on to the use ofregenerative as a term.
It still doesn't have acommercial label that resonates
with people, so it's not reallybeing abused yet, and I think
there's reason for optimism justin that, as the entire travel
industry moves to a more centralfocus on experiences and their
(17:05):
reason for travel, the purposeregenerative, socially minded,
could really become trendy.
Instead of sending a selfie ona beach in Panama with a
cocktail, what if the trend onsocial media becomes photos of
helping turtles or clean uptrash?
To me, that's whereregenerative has an opportunity
(17:25):
to be meaningful.
I genuinely, desperately hopeI'm right In closing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Ladies and gentlemen, here's an optimistic take to
echo Jeff's optimism.
Now is the time when somethingas pie-in-the-sky, crazy, a big
good-for-all idea in anAmerica-first world, is
absolutely what we need to bedoing.
If you're voting with yourdollar, your dollar, where your
(17:55):
dollar goes and how that dollarspent is maybe the biggest
single thing you can do.
As a committed Americantraveler, I think of it often
like buying groceries.
You know, everybody shops atTrader Joe's these days to kind
of keep costs down.
Or Aldi, and you know big partof our grocery shop is that.
(18:16):
The other big part of it is,you know we do our staples there
.
But then the other big part ofit is community market, and so
I'm going to allow in my lifefor us to go.
We'll spend money on thecheaper option, and it's this
big company with brancheseverywhere, and then we're also
going to be committed tospending a chunk of that expense
(18:37):
towards the local farmer thatwe know and want to support.
I think that's how Americansdeal with a lot of their lives,
especially since everything is achain these days.
But I think looking for ways tostay connected to community and
stay connected to localcommerce is really what the ask
(18:58):
is from Regenerative and it'sone that I think, when you frame
it like that, it can kind ofget people motivated in ways
that doing something that'smaybe a little more of a
high-minded statement isn't.
I'm hoping that we keep it real, keep it local.
I have a mystery question foryou.
You want it, bring it.
(19:19):
So we discussed Mardi Gras.
Have you ever attended anoffbeat weirdo festival
somewhere?
It cannot be.
Bonnaroo Can't be like I'mthinking like all the music
festivals.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's exactly where I was going.
I gotta get all the musicfestivals out of my mind there.
Usually those memories purgethemselves Sure.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Quickly after, I might add.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
During Were they ever really created Matt Festival?
Wow, Literally nothing iscoming to mind for an offbeat
festival of that kind.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You can't say state fairs.
I used to say Iowa State Fair,but I can't say that anymore.
That's mainstream.
That shows up on the front pageof National Geographic,
traveler or whatever.
Maybe this is an implorationfor us to go out and look for
some of these.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I'd say I was in Cambodia and we stumbled across
and I don't know what the intentof the festival or the theme of
the festival was.
We stumbled into what becamejust a fantastic night.
There was music playing, allkinds of games, noises we've
never heard, flavors we've nevertasted.
(20:28):
I have no idea what thefestival actually was.
It was a phenomenal night.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I'm going to take this as a.
This should be a challenge forus.
This will be our first steptowards a regenerative lifestyle
.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Are you with me?
We need to do our version ofHunter Thompson's essay on the
Kentucky Derby.
That's really what I'm learninghere, Matt.
I will look into tickets todayAll right, I'll tell you what I
want to do.
I don't think this falls at allunder regenerative.
Have you ever heard of theCalcio Storico in Florence?
No, look this up, it is on myshort end of the bucket list is
(21:07):
to attend this.
It's every June in Florence,where the four quadrants of the
city.
This event goes back 500 yearsand it's a full combat version
of rugby, american football andMMA.
In this old town piazza theyput up stands and the four
(21:29):
quadrants of the town they faceoff against one another for
bragging rights for the nextyear.
And as the game begins, oneteam has possession of the ball
what you would think of in likerugby or American football, as
kind of an offensive line, orthe guys who are going to kind
of protect and block for the guywho's trying to advance the
(21:51):
ball, except that protection andblocking is straight up street
fighting.
Like no rules, I think.
Like you know, no groin punches, but headbutting is still
allowed, like it is an absolutebloodbath.
The fighters don't even telltheir families they're involved.
It's such a dangerous sport,but they represent their part of
(22:12):
town and it's like pure gangwarfare with a football in the
middle.
That's one I can't wait to goto.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's the most Jeff answer ever.
There you have it.
Folks, bring the whole familydown, really Just enjoy it.
It's just about life.
Just I'll get tickets right now.
Matt, what I really want in this episode.
I want the quality of intro yougive our guests.
That's just one time, it's allI want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's a huge amount of pressure and I am not
prepared for it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I think honesty is important and I am not prepared
to give you that kind of intro.
You could not possibly do thatkind of thing of intro.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No, but I will At some point.
Jeff, I will give you that kindof intro and I'm going to make
it very special.
Hi everybody, welcome to noShow.
My name is Matt Brown.
I'm joined as always by JeffBorman.
In recent conversation wediscussed the term.
It's not even a term, it's apractice of overtourism.
But today we're not going totalk about overtourism, we're
(00:46):
going to pivot a little bit andtalk about something called
regenerative tourism and thatterm has also been around over
the last four or five years.
The pandemic.
It kind of kind of theawareness of it really shot
through the roof.
Nobody can really come to aconsensus on what it is exactly,
but the general contours ofregenerative tourism seem to be.
It focuses on giving back,supporting local economies,
(01:09):
preserving culture, protectingthe environment.
It can include activities likereforestation or volunteering on
community projects.
It might have a component ofengaging with local cultures
through workshops and festivalsand farm-to-table dining and
artisan experiences and all ofthese things are great and they
(01:30):
mediate, but they don't totallyget rid of the idea of kind of
all-out extractive tourism, andthat model has been around for a
long time.
With regenerative tourismyou're basically saying you want
to have a mindset to leave adestination better than it was
before you arrived, and you wantto have experiences that go
beyond a traditional vacation.
(01:53):
Jeff, is that?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
right.
I don't think there's a wronganswer to that.
I think it's.
Regenerative travel is not verywell defined.
It's being defined.
Amanda Ho, who is theco-founder of the travel
platform aptly namedRegenerative Travel, says it's a
type of travel that is an actof replenishing and renewing the
environment and community.
Others that I've heard travelit gives back.
(02:15):
You said that travel invests inthe environment and local
communities.
Travel it makes a difference.
My first take on this and, matt, I think I'm more the cynic of
our duo you are we're doing sowell as a society solving
sustainability.
Let's just add a few more majorobstacles and challenges, right
(02:37):
, like cultural preservation andother lofty ideas under
do-gooder-y.
Sustainability is, in many ways, about preventing harm, so
let's just add on to that alsodoing positive, like world
hunger, peace in the Middle East.
Let's just go ahead, matt, andcreate Project Utopia.
Is that what we're doing here?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Now's the time to do it.
Now's the time, now's exactlythe time to do it.
Everything's on fire, literally.
We don't have any choice.
I think we have to, I think wehave to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Everything's on fire.
Yeah, literally, we don't haveany choice.
I think we have to do it.
People only have time for somany isms, though.
Perhaps regenerative isimportant and maybe even timely,
just because we can get apositive spin for people who are
over the negativeness and thefailures of greenwashing slogans
and empty pledges.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Here's my beef and you hit upon it with sustainable
.
I don't like the wordsustainable because, like green,
it gets slapped on everything,everything as a marketing tool,
and even with good intentions,the word just starts to lose
meaning, and that's the casewith all descriptive words in
commerce.
What I like about regenerative,at least for now, is this
(03:47):
practical intent behind actions.
There's this statement ofintent that can inform your
planning and thinking of trips.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
You recently formalized the word
sustainability, defining it sothat it can enforce a mandate
that it created on companies toperform due diligence throughout
their supply chain.
So you use the wordsustainability in Europe.
Now it has a definition, Matt.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And a lot of the examples that I see for
regenerative travel are what Ithink of as kind of like bougie
safaris.
It's like high-end travelexcursions to luxury lodges,
climate-friendly boutique hotels, a photo safari with a farm
tree planting All those thingsare great.
(04:33):
Booking trips with globaltravel operators that are B
Corporation certified is great.
Carbon neutral is great, but alot of these are just kind of
lifestyle brands going for richtravelers.
It feels like a marketing pitchfor guilting rich people, which
is okay too.
I have no problem with that.
Rich people need more guilt,and there are certainly best
(04:55):
intentions behind a lot of it.
But, man, it just feels likekind of more the same.
You know, like we're putting ona shiny new paint to a very old
model, which is the Grand Tour.
We're going to take rich peopleout to see the world, and the
vast majority of Americantourists are not going to go on
these luxury safaris.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Doesn't the end justify the means enough?
Even if there was a veneer ofhypocrisy in the middle.
Instead of rich tourists onsafari in Africa shooting rhinos
, they're shooting photos ofrhinos.
And instead of decimating thepopulation, they are, through
their tourist dollars, providingthe local economy with an
(05:37):
alternative means to killingthose animals, instead
protecting and elevating themwithin our society.
Maybe there's a littlehypocrisy somewhere in the
middle, but doesn't the endjustify the means there?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Let's talk about some examples here of how this is
playing out.
You know I came across a studyas we were kind of researching a
little bit for this theUniversity of Hawaii at Manoa.
They did this big survey withinthe last couple of years.
They surveyed residents on oneof the islands and the residents
responded favorably towardsregenerative travel.
Hawaii has struggled mightilywith its relationship to travel
(06:12):
from the world, travel frommainland US.
That is a complicatedrelationship, to say the least.
But examples of regenerativetourism in Hawaii have included
replanting native tree speciesto offset the carbon footprint
that is often produced by well,not often it is produced by
flying to Hawaii, People goingout there, staying in a cool
(06:33):
place, enjoying some beach time,but then also taking part of
their time to help removeinvasive plant species off
hiking trails, to remove plasticand abandoned fishing nets off
beaches.
The general vibe amongst theHawaiians, at least in this
survey, was that that's better,that that's at least more
connected to the place, versusyou're going to come, stay in a
(06:55):
hotel, go to the restaurant,litter and then take off.
You've got another companycalled Byway.
It's a UK company.
Their whole deal is to makeflight-free holidays a
mainstream holiday choice, whichmight be a little bit easier in
Europe than it is here, Maybenot, though they're prioritizing
overland travel across theBritish Isles and Europe.
More stops, more communities,more passengers per trip, less
(07:17):
jet fuel.
I don't know how the carbonfootprint balances out with that
, but the idea is that you areconnecting more to yourself, to
the scenery, to the community,when you are embracing slow
travel.
I saw another study that says73% of millennials are willing
to pay more for sustainablegoods, including eco-friendly
travel, so there's definitelynon-bougie stuff out there that
(07:42):
I think works in the context ofwhat regenerative travel is.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
First, I have a concern about regenerative, as
we've already put it next tosustainability, where
sustainability the rhetoric'svery strong and the actions
remain very weak.
And we're talking about exampleshere of positive, real-world
examples of regenerative travel.
And the last thing youmentioned, or one of the last,
was that around millennials,engaging a 75% say they would
(08:09):
pay more to have carbon neutraltravel.
You said something to thateffect, but the difference here
is in surveys you hear that, butwhat travelers regularly rate
sustainability as a top fivecriteria in making travel
decisions?
Their buying behavior tells avery different story, and so, as
we're giving these examplesregularly rate sustainability as
a top five criteria in makingtravel decisions.
Their buying behavior tells avery different story.
And so, as we're giving theseexamples, it kind of takes me
(08:31):
back to the top where I'm sayinghow do you build on top of
sustainability and even moreambitious idea, when the reality
is people aren't fully engaged,don't fully accept that
sustainable travel, regenerativetravel, it's going to cost them
more.
It's going to cost them more inthe real currency, no matter
where they're from, and it'sgoing to cost them more in time
(08:52):
and comfort, most likely.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Human instinct is to go for the lowest price.
It's just, it just is, and itdoes not matter if something has
a ton of fees on it.
It's like, hey, we've been sotransparent about what our
airfare and our hotel price isgoing to be.
If you see something onlinethat's $100 less, less cannot
(09:15):
not go towards it.
Travel experts have linked someof their studies to how people
view traffic.
Like how people view all travel, I guess, but like I will be
the one who figures out mycommute.
No, the traffic this Friday.
If we're getting out of thecity, it won't affect us.
I think if we leave at 205versus 215, it'll save us and it
(09:38):
never ever saves you.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Two things that have been in the news recently.
Along those lines, though, mattright, american Express, amex
GBT.
They just recently unveiled anew emissions-based pricing tool
that lets their clients apply acarbon fee to the travel based
on their own selected carbonmethodology, rather than just a
flat fee that Amex itself woulddetermine.
(10:03):
I think this is an example ofwhere you describe the consumer
is just.
There is a disposition from thevery beginning that says I'm
going to buy the lowest price.
If the tool that presents youroptions is pre-filtered to only
give you certain selections,then I think that's going to
make a meaningful step forward.
Like this, amex enhancement hasthe opportunity to really truly
(10:27):
make the choice for thecustomer by not showing them
choices that their company saysare not options for them.
That doesn't help yourindividual trail, I think, most
when it comes to sustainable.
You can talk a lot aboutcorporate input, right, our
travelers will only X Y, z.
When it comes to leisure traveland you make that decision for
yourself, regenerative isprobably more in the leisure
(10:47):
than the business space, becauseyou're choosing to go do
something for a purpose thatsuits your own, the things you
care about individually, andyou're probably not going to be
filtered, like Amex would, whena company says only show my
business travelers these options.
So I think that's going to be achallenge.
New Zealand the country'sofficial tourism body, has what
(11:11):
they call the Taiki promise.
I don't know if I'm pronouncingthat properly, but it's a
promise to care for New Zealand,and when people arrive, they
take a pledge that reads whiletraveling in New Zealand, I will
care for the land, sea andnature, treading lightly and
leaving no trace, travel safely,showing care and consideration
for all, respect, culture,traveling with an open heart and
(11:35):
mind.
That makes me want to go to NewZealand even more.
At the same time, though, matt,does a pledge have any real
world impact, and I think that'sthe rub here.
Just again, like these reallylofty ideas that we want to care
and do good, does taking apledge upon entry before you hit
my passport stamp my passportgot to take the pledge.
(11:58):
Will I really do anything inNew Zealand that is different?
I don't think the pledge isgoing to get you there.
Boracay in the Philippines doessomething similar.
It's difficult.
I mean, let's just put it easy.
I don't have the solutions andI'm not trying to throw barbs at
those who've tried.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, I hear what you're saying and pledges are
high-minded ways to makeeverybody feel good.
Here's what I'd like to see, Ithink, bringing it down to
things that are super granular,super tactical.
I think that's a way to focuspeople on the idea of
regenerative travel.
You know, environmentalrestoration is a big part of
(12:34):
regenerative tourism, but I kindof like a broader definition of
environment, and that broaderdefinition would actually
include some of these tacticalthings, and I'm not sure what
I'm thinking about here isclassified as regenerative as
such.
But I'd like to include some ofthis stuff that's closer to
home.
For instance, as you'replanning a trip, are you staying
in a locally owned lodgingoption versus a chain Ditto for
(12:57):
restaurants?
Are you packing intentionally?
Are you packing a reusablewater bottle and cutlery?
Are you buying responsiblysourced clothing?
Are you buying used gear?
Are you buying local souvenirs?
Are you using interesting tourguides who aren't part of some
kind of national company?
Are they kind of locals who aredoing this?
(13:17):
Are you going to off tracklocations?
You know, and culturalfestivals oftentimes come up as
an option for tourists who wantto kind of go down the
regenerative arc.
And one of the things that Iwould always tell people.
You know I grew up in Louisiana.
One of the things I always tellpeople is, if you want to go to
Mardi Gras, don't go to NewOrleans.
Do not go to New Orleans.
(13:40):
It'll be crowded, you'll pay abillion dollars to stay there,
everybody will be drunk by eighto'clock and if you really want
a Mardi Gras experience, youshould go out.
You should go two hours outinto Cajun country.
It doesn't even have to be somesmall town, but it could be
like a little city and thatMardi Gras parade and festival
is exactly maximum Louisiana andyou will get a tourist
(14:01):
experience you will never forget, and I think that applies to so
many many places.
I like those things as underthe regenerative umbrella and I
think of them as environmentalas any of these other exercises.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
What do you think?
First of all, I love theBourdain episode on Cajun Mardi
Gras.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh, it's a classic and it's raw.
Man it is, it is raw.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It is him at his best going and saying you know, this
is a part of America none ofyou have seen and you really
should.
You think you know.
If you think you know what'sreally going on, you have no
idea, and it's kind of classicBourdain.
But the other thing that youkind of reminded me of is that,
thankfully, probably nobodytakes my advice on where to go.
Foreigners coming to the USEuropeans, asians they all want
(14:56):
to go to New York, la, sanFrancisco and Miami and I
encourage every one of them.
If you want to see the UnitedStates, go to Cincinnati, go to
Detroit, go to Des Moines.
These are the places that thisis real America.
It's not going to be the photoop, it's not going to be the
selfie you're looking for.
It's not going to be the photoop.
It's not going to be the selfieyou're looking for, but you're
(15:16):
going to get a flavor of theculture in a way that is far
more genuine than Times Square,south Beach and Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yes, and I think you know what's the?
What's the word that comes upthe most in this local, local,
local.
At the very least, keepinglocality on the brain feels like
a great first step to get tothis, versus being forced to eat
your broccoli.
You're right.
Nobody's going to want to take,especially if convenience and
(15:44):
cost are part of it, becausethis is your vacation.
I deal with matters ofconvenience and cost in every
other part of my life.
The very idea of going onvacation is that I don't want to
deal with that.
And now you're making me work,and I can imagine, even for a
lot of people who have greatintention, that for this week
out of the year, I just want togo stay in a luxury hotel and I
(16:06):
don't want to think aboutproblems and people, and I get
that, and that is also a veryluxurious way to think of the
world, and one that I think weneed to reframe and reframe soon
.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
There's nothing inherently negative about
regenerative, you know, otherthan maybe there's buzzword
fatigue out there, but the ideaof leaving a place better than
you arrived, I think it'ssomething that most people could
get on board with.
Leveraging tourism to be aforce for good is something you
and I talk about all the time.
Skift research analyst RobertGilbert Jones said on a podcast
(16:43):
that I listened to that hardcoregreenwashers have not yet
caught on to the use ofregenerative as a term.
It still doesn't have acommercial label that resonates
with people, so it's not reallybeing abused yet, and I think
there's reason for optimism justin that, as the entire travel
industry moves to a more centralfocus on experiences and their
(17:05):
reason for travel, the purposeregenerative, socially minded,
could really become trendy.
Instead of sending a selfie ona beach in Panama with a
cocktail, what if the trend onsocial media becomes photos of
helping turtles or clean uptrash?
To me, that's whereregenerative has an opportunity
(17:25):
to be meaningful.
I genuinely, desperately hopeI'm right In closing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Ladies and gentlemen, here's an optimistic take to
echo Jeff's optimism.
Now is the time when somethingas pie-in-the-sky, crazy, a big
good-for-all idea in anAmerica-first world, is
absolutely what we need to bedoing.
If you're voting with yourdollar, your dollar, where your
(17:55):
dollar goes and how that dollarspent is maybe the biggest
single thing you can do.
As a committed Americantraveler, I think of it often
like buying groceries.
You know, everybody shops atTrader Joe's these days to kind
of keep costs down.
Or Aldi, and you know big partof our grocery shop is that.
(18:16):
The other big part of it is,you know we do our staples there
.
But then the other big part ofit is community market, and so
I'm going to allow in my lifefor us to go.
We'll spend money on thecheaper option, and it's this
big company with brancheseverywhere, and then we're also
going to be committed tospending a chunk of that expense
(18:37):
towards the local farmer thatwe know and want to support.
I think that's how Americansdeal with a lot of their lives,
especially since everything is achain these days.
But I think looking for ways tostay connected to community and
stay connected to localcommerce is really what the ask
(18:58):
is from Regenerative and it'sone that I think, when you frame
it like that, it can kind ofget people motivated in ways
that doing something that'smaybe a little more of a
high-minded statement isn't.
I'm hoping that we keep it real, keep it local.
I have a mystery question foryou.
You want it, bring it.
(19:19):
So we discussed Mardi Gras.
Have you ever attended anoffbeat weirdo festival
somewhere?
It cannot be.
Bonnaroo Can't be like I'mthinking like all the music
festivals.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's exactly where I was going.
I gotta get all the musicfestivals out of my mind there.
Usually those memories purgethemselves Sure.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Quickly after, I might add.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
During Were they ever really created Matt Festival?
Wow, Literally nothing iscoming to mind for an offbeat
festival of that kind.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You can't say state fairs.
I used to say Iowa State Fair,but I can't say that anymore.
That's mainstream.
That shows up on the front pageof National Geographic,
traveler or whatever.
Maybe this is an implorationfor us to go out and look for
some of these.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I'd say I was in Cambodia and we stumbled across
and I don't know what the intentof the festival or the theme of
the festival was.
We stumbled into what becamejust a fantastic night.
There was music playing, allkinds of games, noises we've
never heard, flavors we've nevertasted.
(20:28):
I have no idea what thefestival actually was.
It was a phenomenal night.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I'm going to take this as a.
This should be a challenge forus.
This will be our first steptowards a regenerative lifestyle
.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Are you with me?
We need to do our version ofHunter Thompson's essay on the
Kentucky Derby.
That's really what I'm learninghere, Matt.
I will look into tickets todayAll right, I'll tell you what I
want to do.
I don't think this falls at allunder regenerative.
Have you ever heard of theCalcio Storico in Florence?
No, look this up, it is on myshort end of the bucket list is
(21:07):
to attend this.
It's every June in Florence,where the four quadrants of the
city.
This event goes back 500 yearsand it's a full combat version
of rugby, american football andMMA.
In this old town piazza theyput up stands and the four
(21:29):
quadrants of the town they faceoff against one another for
bragging rights for the nextyear.
And as the game begins, oneteam has possession of the ball
what you would think of in likerugby or American football, as
kind of an offensive line, orthe guys who are going to kind
of protect and block for the guywho's trying to advance the
(21:51):
ball, except that protection andblocking is straight up street
fighting.
Like no rules, I think.
Like you know, no groin punches, but headbutting is still
allowed, like it is an absolutebloodbath.
The fighters don't even telltheir families they're involved.
It's such a dangerous sport,but they represent their part of
(22:12):
town and it's like pure gangwarfare with a football in the
middle.
That's one I can't wait to goto.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's the most Jeff answer ever.
There you have it.
Folks, bring the whole familydown, really Just enjoy it.
It's just about life.
Just I'll get tickets right now.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.