Curious about what really happens behind the scenes of fitness competitions?
Join us as we chat with Melissa Bakhurst, who bravely shares her journey through the world of bodybuilding and bikini contests. Initially hitting the gym for mental health, Melissa got caught up in competition pressures, facing extreme weight shifts and food struggles.
Discover the hidden challenges of maintaining a toned body and the mental toll it takes. Melissa shares the unhealthy norms in the competition world, from craving a simple slice of bread after strict diets to the struggles that follow events. She highlights the risks of extreme dieting and emphasises the importance of balance for true health.
We also explore breaking free from the diet mindset, with Melissa discussing her journey with intuitive eating and overcoming food guilt.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone working on their relationship with food and body image, offering valuable insights and a reminder to prioritise well-being over appearance.
Want to feel more in control around food? Check out my Stop Struggling With Food Guide, currently on sale for 40% off.
You’ll also find 50 of my favourite recipes to get you inspired!
Get my Free 5 Day Course to help you stop binge and emotional eating.
Looking for more support to feel in control around food? I'd love to support you in my Binge Free Academy.
Come follow me on the gram at @nude_nutritionist (no nude pics, sorry).
Want to share some feedback or have an idea for an episode, I'd LOVE to hear from you - hit me up at hello@lyndicohen.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And this is my hot take on the whole fitness
competition industry it is aculture that allows eating
disorders to go wild.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Any goal that is based on aesthetics.
It's also objective.
You get up on a stage andyou're being rated by people who
have opinions and preferences.
It doesn't matter how hardyou've worked.
After doing a show, we'll sortof have what I guess they'd call
a blowout and they've gainedall the weight back plus some.
And those people talking openlyabout it made me realise that
(00:34):
everyone ends up in the samespot and it's a really bad place
mentally.
They're not my goals anymoreand aesthetics are not important
to me.
Health is important to me andaesthetics are not important to
me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Health is important to me.
Hello everyone and welcome tothis week's episode of no
Wellness Wankery.
I'm Lindy Cowan, a dietician,and you can think of me a bit
like your non-diet best friend,helping you get rid of diet
culture and ask the questionwhat the heck is health anyway?
We're looking into the researchand the science behind what
(01:06):
gives you a healthy life, freefrom the sacrifice and the
restriction that diet cultureplaces on you, and I interviewed
some fantastic guests,including the one today is
Melissa Backhurst.
She's actually a real person,just like you, who emailed me
and said hey, I'd love to comeon your podcast to share my
story.
And the story goes like thisMelissa started competing in
bodybuilding and bikini comps in, I guess, her mid-twenties and
(01:29):
her weight was constantly goingup, it was going down, she was
swinging from dangerously thinto feeling slightly above her
comfort zone and then, even whenshe stopped counting macros and
trying to just eat intuitively,still that guilt and shame that
was still hanging around herand she's still finding it hard
to get rid of it today.
During her comp days, melissa'sdiet went incredibly low in
(01:51):
terms of calories and this iswhere she began binge eating.
After she quit bodybuilding,she's been trying to maintain a
healthy weight but to be honest,it's been a bit of a relentless
cycle of trying to be good andnot eating enough, and she's
just trying to work it all out.
But it sounds to me like she'slearned a whole bunch and she's
intuitive eating so well thesedays.
So in today's episode, melissais going to be sharing her
(02:14):
journey with us.
She's talking about hersetbacks, her realizations and
also how she is now movingfurther towards balance with
healthy eating and not justchasing a number on the scales.
So, melissa, let's talk.
Melissa, welcome to today'sepisode.
Thanks for being on here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You emailed me and you wrote me.
You told me your story, youtold me where you're at and you
suggested maybe I'd like to letother people know about what
you've been through so that theydon't have to go through what
you've been through, so thatthey don't have to go through
what you've been through.
So can you start me from thebeginning?
Tell me about your relationshipwith food growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So as a kid.
I grew up in a family thatthere was certainly diet culture
present.
My mum was constantly countingcalories.
She had the calorie king bookback in those days where it was
all manual and you know she'd becounting all her meals.
She always ate separate mealsto the rest of the family.
It was always about losing fivekilos and then she'd gain it
and then she'd lose it again.
(03:12):
So that was very much in mychildhood.
My mum never put anyrestrictions on me personally.
I was sort of naturally afairly you know, a fairly skinny
kid.
But my sister, who was a littlebigger than me, would sometimes
get comments from mom about youknow, do you need to be eating
that or haven't you had enough?
So I think, yeah, it wasn't mepersonally, but it was certainly
(03:32):
something that I grew up around.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, and then you mentioned that you got into
bodybuilding, which sounds likeit wasn't.
It wasn't your mom whoinfluenced you to do this,
although there certainly was adiet culture growing up.
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So my mom was always into the gym.
She would always go off to thegym in the morning and, and you
know, it was very much a part ofher life, but for her it was
more maintenance, sort of youknow so, so, so she could eat
more, and that was what she'dsay.
I got into the gym when I firstmoved out of home, around 20,
more, just as a hobby and tomanage my mental health.
Actually, I had some anxietyissues and I found that going to
(04:06):
the gym helped me to sort ofget out of that headspace and
just to focus on something else.
And so really it was aboutmental health.
I found I really enjoyed weighttraining.
I enjoyed the weights, I didbody pump classes and then I
went into the gym and startedlearning to do it myself and I
think it was just that, as Isaid, I was fairly lean back
then.
I think it was just that, as Isaid, I was fairly lean back
(04:27):
then.
I think it was not so muchnaturally, but it was probably
just that I was a bit of ananxious person and I guess I had
a somewhat troubledrelationship with food in that
sense as I got older, in thatwhen I was very anxious I had
trouble eating, so I was fairlyskinny.
When I went into the gym Igained muscle quickly and you
could see that muscle.
So I looked, you know, I hadthat natural sort of muscle
definition and and I enjoyedgetting strong.
(04:48):
But it was more comments comingfrom other people who would say
, oh, like, do you compete?
And, to be honest, the firstfew times I had that question, I
just compete in what?
What are you talking about?
And then say, you know, do youdo fitness competitions?
And I said, no, I don't knowwhat that's about.
And I think maybe, as peopletalk to me about that, I
probably went onto Instagram orsocial media and felt, started
(05:09):
to follow people that were inthat world, um, and then thought
I'd thought I'd compete as as abit of a challenge, cause, you
know, like I said, I enjoyedweight training, um, what I was
not aware of at that time was,uh, the huge role that diet
played, um and played, and howdamaging I suppose that that
would end up being for my mentalhealth but also my relationship
(05:31):
with food.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
At this point you're still quite young, right?
How old are you?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So early 20s, early to mid-20s, and what surprised
me actually getting into thatworld was that there were a lot
of much younger women.
So I sort of felt in my midtwenties that maybe I was a
little, I had a little bit morelife experience and was able to
separate myself a little fromall the pressure that pressure
to be incredibly lean andwhatever it was that we were
(05:57):
trying to achieve.
But there were women in their,you know, late teens, early
twenties and that was whatshocked me.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And this is my hot take on the whole fitness
competition industry it is aculture that allows eating
disorders to go wild, thatencourages eating disorders,
that teaches girls how to haveeating disorders, that gives
them eating disorders if theydidn't have eating disorders and
then will applaud you forhaving the most severe out of
control eating disorder and itfeels so toxic to me.
(06:27):
I can fully understand why.
It's a really enjoyable thingto do.
It feels like there's a reallygood community around it.
It's a really nicecompanionship.
Everyone's really supportive ofeach other.
Of course, it's the competitionaspect.
That's certainly there, but Icould fully see all the pros.
But there's this huge thingthat people aren't talking about
(06:47):
is the fact that this is kindof just a glorified eating
disorder realm.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, look, absolutely.
I think that, particularlycoming into it for the first
time and and you know, as I said, following a lot of people on
social media, social media is areally big part of it, I think
as well I noticed that therewere a lot of women who would
talk about how they had eatingdisorders growing up and that
now they'd recovered and nowthey'd learned so much and were
(07:15):
eating so much more and wereworking out and had gained, I
guess, muscle and trying to makethat distinction between the
two, whereas to me, even withoutsort of really understanding
what was going on there, itstruck me as they'd sort of
swapped one addiction for theother, like it was, you know,
restricting food, and thenthey'd kind of come and, yes,
they were probably eating more,or differently, I would say, but
(07:37):
you know whether that was thesort of you know, the obsession
with clean eating or thecounting of macros and calories
to try and achieve a goal.
Ultimately, what they were doingwas quite similar, just with
some muscle.
And it really worried me, as Isaid, even being in my
mid-twenties, looking at themuch younger girls who were
doing it and restricting wholefood groups, and I just thought,
(07:59):
my goodness, that is dangerous,and I think I was too far in it
before I realized just howdangerous it was.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So can you talk to me about the moment where you
realized what is this, what am Idoing?
This has actually done a wholelot more harm than good.
Was there a moment?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Look, there are a couple of moments, I think, that
really stand out to me.
I think the biggest thing forme was that you get to the last
few weeks before a competition.
You're in prep mode andeveryone's incredibly lean and
gaunt faced.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Can you spell out for anyone who doesn't know what is
prep mode?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh well, just so, you're going to prep for a
competition and that can sort ofbe up to 20 weeks prior, and
that's when you're reallydialing everything in your diet
becomes quite strict.
You're really dialing,everything in your diet becomes
quite strict.
You are working out way toomuch.
Usually You've got a mix ofyour weight training but then
also and in my case especially,a lot of intense cardio and it's
(08:55):
all really about reducing thecalories, right, trying to have
more calories going out than aregoing in, which now I think of
it and I go.
That is just insane.
But that real sort of period ofintense preparation where
everything becomes about thiscompetition.
It is so all-consuming that allyou think about and all you
talk about are macros andtraining and that sort of thing.
(09:17):
And I think you get to the endof it and it's almost glorified
and sort of applauded that youare incredibly lean, tired, no
energy, looking almost unwell,and that is expected, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
And so you were doing prep and you were having a
realization.
You got to the end of this veryintense period and you go.
What was going through yourbrain?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think the fact that you're never quite satisfied
with where you're at and thatyou know I've listened to many
of your episodes before aboutpeople who, in a weight loss
sense, have gotten to a pointwhere they're at their goal
weight but they're still notsatisfied.
And then you look back and youthink, oh my goodness, look how
you know how lean I was.
Why, why, what was wrong withme?
Um, it was sort of a little bitlike that.
(10:07):
You get right to the end of itand you've either lost muscle
because you've been eating sofew calories, and then you're
sort of looking a bit flat andyou think, well, this isn't what
I was going for.
Um, you're not lean enough incertain areas because, of course
, we can't pick and choose wherewe lose fat, and so it's just
getting to the end and still notbeing satisfied, maybe realize
(10:27):
that this is just fruitless.
Like, I suppose, any goal thatis based on aesthetics, it's
also objective.
You get up on a stage andyou're being rated by people who
have opinions and preferences.
It doesn't matter how hardyou've worked.
It's not like doing somethinglike powerlifting, where you
have a weight goal, you reach acertain point and someone's then
deciding who they think looksbest.
(10:48):
And one thing that stands out tome is I remember being
backstage at a show and hearingquite a young girl say something
along the lines of I just can'twait to have a slice of bread.
And I remember thinking tomyself my goodness, I didn't
actually class myself as beingin that category because I was
counting macros.
I had continued to eat bread.
I was obviously restricting ina very different way.
(11:08):
So I remember thinking, oh, mygoodness, this girl hasn't eaten
bread in 20 weeks and thinkingthat that was just absurd and
realizing how damaging that thatwould be for her.
But I don't think I countedmyself as one of them.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, Did you have to have left the community and
have had some hindsight beforeyou started to go?
Oh wait, that was pretty.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
that wasn't right, I think that a lot of people,
after doing a show, will sort ofhave what I guess they'd call a
blowout and they've gained allthe weight back plus some.
And those people talking openlyabout it made me realize that
everyone ends up in the samespot and it's a really bad place
mentally and people willacknowledge that.
But I think you're discouragedfrom talking about that because
(11:53):
it is seen as, I guess, your ownpersonal failing Like I didn't
have willpower to do a properreverse diet where you've gone
back up slowly in terms of yourintake and I think that it's
seen as you're failing andyou're criticized for doing that
, and so people don't talk aboutthe struggle afterwards.
I think it's only when you go,when you do remove yourself from
(12:14):
that community to an extent andyou go looking for other people
in a similar situation, thatyou find there's a lot of people
out there and even just intalking to you now you know
there's that kind of oh andcriticizing this big, massive
industry that has these reallystrong names, and then it's
almost a little bit taboo.
You don't.
You don't criticize it becauseit's it's me that failed, as
opposed to this industry failingus, because ultimately it's you
(12:37):
know, it's the health andwellness industry, but it's not
nobody in that I mean very fewpeople in that industry and
doing those competitions arewhat I would class healthy, at
least in that you know, in thatprep phase and around a
competition.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, because what is true health, I think so
often in the health andwellness space we are taught to
sacrifice wellbeing in pursuitof looking a certain way and in
the fitness comps, that's thedefinition of how I see it.
I think it's you're giving upall your head space, you're
giving up all your free will,all that attention.
As you said, you have to beobsessive in order to be able to
(13:15):
be that controlled around food.
There is no room for living abalanced life.
By definition of it.
It is, as you said, setting youup quite physically and
chemically for this blowout.
That it is, I think, quite tobe honest, protective, that you
are going through a blowoutperiod, because if you weren't
(13:35):
and you're going, I actually cankind of keep going on this that
would be incredibly dangerousand in fact, as a sport, I do
think it can be a very dangeroussport and I don't think that's
spoken about enough.
But fundamentally, post prepphase, your whole body.
There's so much interestingresearch behind like
semi-starvation diets, which Ithink this is, and how obsessive
you become, how you startdreaming about food, how you
(13:57):
start like daydreaming aboutfood, how every thought comes
back to food, every conversationcomes back to food, and that's
just that part.
Beyond that, there's also thatvery intense craving for the
foods, like the young girl whowanted to have bread.
Your metabolism must slow inorder to protect you because it
thinks you're trying to starveitself.
And then you've got thesecravings and it is just an
(14:19):
inevitable tidal wave of eating.
That has to happen and it's notlike you know.
This is just one person whoit's happening to.
This is the norm and, as I said, it's thank goodness it
happened to you and that you areone of the people who
experienced this blowout, whichI guess is like a really nice
reframe.
When we go through periods wherewe binge and overeat, we often
think that it is a sign oflacking, of not being enough.
(14:42):
I see the exact opposite, Ithink.
Can you learn to be gratefulfor each binge in the way that
it's kind of giving you a signto say something was not up and
I've got your back because I'mnot going to let you
self-sabotage and implode on us?
Can you tell me about yourbinge eating?
So, after you went through aphase of blowout eating as you
talk about, you were trying toget on top of going.
(15:03):
I don't want to keep feeling soout of control with food.
Can you talk to me about that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, look, I think binge eating has always been a
bit of an issue for me.
In fact, even during prep, whenI was on very low intake of
food, I think that I probablywas also binging.
If I'm honest with you, I wasbinging throughout, but I was
still losing weight because ofthe intense sort of exercise and
how low my diet that I wassupposed to be following was.
(15:30):
So I think that I justcontinued that after my
competitions.
Um, cause, you know, you don'thave the goal anymore.
So you think, oh, I shouldn'tbe eating so much, but I, you
know, it's not going to make adifference.
It's one thing.
I think it was very much thefoods that I'd restricted, you
know that I deemed were too highin calories or macros to fit
into my diet before.
(15:50):
So Tim Tams, chocolate, donuts,those sorts of things, but even
just everyday foods like pastaand bread and the things that
didn't fit in because I was onsuch a low intake of carbs.
It would just be, yeah, I'dallow myself to buy the packet
of Tim Tams and then I'd eat it,and if there were two, I'd
probably eat two.
It was just that feeling of, oh,I can finally eat again and
(16:12):
that's something that I'vestruggled.
My last competition was in 2021.
Three years later, I stillstruggle a little bit with that.
I'm much better than I was, butyeah, when it's in front of me
it's so many years ofrestriction All I want to do is
just eat the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Where are you now?
Because it sounds like you'vebeen diving into intuitive
eating, learning to have ahealthier relationship with food
, but it's still tricky becauseyou still have that internal
brain going.
No, but this is the way weshould be doing it.
So where are you at at themoment?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I've definitely come a very long way, certainly, with
my eating.
I do not count or there's nosort of thought throughout my
day about trying to reach anumber or stay under a number by
any means.
I think where I still strugglethe most is maybe just in the
still feeling those, that senseof guilt.
(17:03):
So I suppose if I do have ameal that and you know, I know
you talk about it all the timethat you can't forget how many
macros or how many calories arein something when you've done it
for such a long time, sosometimes in my brain I will
have that sense that okay, thisis, you know, a very calorie
dense meal.
I will still eat the meal, Iwill be fine while eating the
meal, but then afterwards thereis still that feeling of maybe I
(17:26):
should skip breakfast tomorrowor maybe I should not.
You know, maybe I should not.
You know, maybe I should beeating better for the next week
to make up for it.
And that is, it takes a realeffort for me to go.
No, that is not necessary.
I just need to continue goingforward and eating good food and
I'm very I'm on a bit of a sortof you know journey at the
moment to make sure that I'mcrowding in good foods, because
(17:46):
I think for so many years it wasabout the amount and not the
nutrients.
And now I think you know Idon't care if it means me adding
a heap of you know so-calledbad foods to something to get my
vegetables in.
I'm going to do it because it'sabout getting good things in.
So it constantly requires me toreframe that in my mind.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, and during those early stages of recovery
from an eating disorder,disordered eating, certainly
that script that you need tohave.
You got to have it on the andyou do, it sounds like it.
You've got to have it thereready to go, because your brain
does flip back into old patternsand then you get to counteract
it and that process in itselfcan feel quite exhausting.
I really know that does geteasier At some point you do kind
(18:31):
of forget the macros and thecalories, but that takes way too
long, an awfully large amountof time, sadly.
But I think what you are doingright now it sounds like so key.
Can we talk about this inrelation to fear of weight gain,
in the fact that duringrecovery weight gain can happen,
and how that plays intotriggering you to go?
(18:52):
Oh, maybe I should just kind ofbe extra good this week or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, that urge to diet is still very much there.
It's going away.
It's sort of it's a very slowprocess.
I think I still very much lookat myself in the mirror
occasionally and think, oh,that's, this is not the me that
I, you know, that I identifiedwith for all of those years.
It's very different and thereis that sense of, oh, it's
gotten a bit out of control.
Now I'll just lose you know Xamount just to get back to sort
(19:18):
of a happy medium.
But I know that for thelong-term, ultimately for me to
do that is going to be damagingbecause I'm going to get back
into that restrictive mindset.
So I keep sort of thinking ofthe long-term goal, but it is
hard.
And long-term goal, but it ishard.
And I also have a partner who isinto bodybuilding himself and
so he is still a little bit inthat sort of macros and have I
had enough protein and don'twant to gain too much fat.
(19:39):
And that's difficult because Isort of have to say to him I
don't, I don't want to hear this.
If you're going to, you know,count or do these things when
you're preparing dinner for us,for instance, you can do that,
but I don't want to hear aboutit.
So that's hard because there isthat sense of you know, I want
to be supportive of him and hisgoals, but I also have to keep
reminding him they're not mygoals anymore and aesthetics are
(20:00):
not important to me.
Health is important to me.
So that's probably the biggestongoing challenge, that feeling
of you know.
Oh, maybe I could just lose alittle bit and get back down a
little bit.
But thinking of the long-termand going no, my body will end
up where it's meant to be in thelong-term.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I think for me, when I think about you you
talked about before you got intoall of this.
You sounded like you were goingto the gym in a way that was
just really enjoyable, and yourweight was never something that
you had to think about.
And I think, if I think aboutfor you, that is the point I'd
like you to get back to.
So if you can start to try andthink back like who was that
girl and she was young and howdid she think about food and how
(20:40):
did she maybe eat, I think it'squite an interesting thing and
I think what is a challenge whenyou come through from a world
of where you've done a lot ofrestriction and then you try and
practice intuitive eating, Ithink one of the big challenges
is learning to be okay withhunger, and hunger can feel very
threatening, it can feel veryscary.
We talked about this idea ofyour body trying to protect you
(21:00):
right, of being like, okay, no,I'm going to eat because I don't
trust you, and so you've gonethrough this period where you've
kind of eaten more so that yourbody can learn okay, no, food's
always available and you'recurrently in that phase and as
you practice it, I think you canstart to kind of go.
No, I can learn to have acomfortable sense of hunger that
isn't scary, that isn'tthreatening, because just like
(21:22):
we want to have the urge to weebefore we wee or we want to feel
tired before we go to sleep,hunger is that we should have
that sensation a few times a day.
And I think when you come out ofthat restrictive phase, it's
one of those things where youkind of learn to have that
healthy relationship with hunger.
And that takes a really longtime before you can start to go.
I can kind of play with that alittle bit more.
In addition, every time you'rehaving the thoughts of, oh, I
(21:45):
should just go on a quick fix,it can kind of tighten up your
body's distrust of hunger.
It makes you kind of go oh,I've got to hold on to that
tighter.
It sets you back a little bit.
It's just a thought I haveabout our relationship with
hunger and how trying not tofear it yeah, yeah, and I
suppose that's exactly rightthat I'm learning to go.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Oh, like before I left work yesterday I thought,
oh, I've got a banana here, am Ihungry?
Oh, I'm a little bit hungry.
I'll have that so that I cancomfortably get to dinner.
And that's a big thing for me,because in the past it was not
about hunger, it was about whatcan I eat, what can I fit in
today, and so that's a reallybig mindset shift for me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
I love that you're doing thatYou're thinking about, you're
asking yourself the questions.
If you are getting hungry, youare actually eating something.
You're doing the practice.
Before we wrap up, is thereanything you want to say to
younger you or someone else whois contemplating doing a fitness
comp that you want the world toknow?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, look, I was thinking about this.
While I would never say tosomeone not to do something, I
think just really consideringthe different risks involved and
the impact that can have onyour mental health and your
metabolism and your relationshipwith food in the long term,
before going into something likethat.
And I guess I would just sayyou know, I think that there's
so much more to life thanaesthetics and it's taken me a
(23:04):
while to get to this, but, youknow, being able to go to the
gym just to have some me time or, you know, to clear your head,
or even having performance-basedgoals, which are fun.
You know, I'm trying to bench acertain amount of weight right
now and it's just it's fun.
You can still go ahead and havethat experience and be fit
without it being about the wayyou look, and I think it's just
(23:26):
gaining that perspective whichtakes time.
But I just recommend thatanybody really think carefully
about the impact that it canhave.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I will come in here and add to this that I would
never recommend a fitnesscompetition.
I would strongly discourageanyone from doing it and I
certainly would never let mykids do it, because I rarely see
anyone who ends up unscathed byeating disorders.
And you think about how longrecovery takes and the impact on
(23:57):
bone density, your period, allthe kinds of things that are
quite long lasting effects.
I think it is one of thosethings.
I think we need to talk aboutit a lot more.
Melissa, thank you for havingthis conversation with me.
I'm so grateful for you sharingyour story.
Thank you so much.
And this is my hot take on the whole fitness
competition industry it is aculture that allows eating
disorders to go wild.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Any goal that is based on aesthetics.
It's also objective.
You get up on a stage andyou're being rated by people who
have opinions and preferences.
It doesn't matter how hardyou've worked.
After doing a show, we'll sortof have what I guess they'd call
a blowout and they've gainedall the weight back plus some.
And those people talking openlyabout it made me realise that
(00:34):
everyone ends up in the samespot and it's a really bad place
mentally.
They're not my goals anymoreand aesthetics are not important
to me.
Health is important to me andaesthetics are not important to
me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Health is important to me.
Hello everyone and welcome tothis week's episode of no
Wellness Wankery.
I'm Lindy Cowan, a dietician,and you can think of me a bit
like your non-diet best friend,helping you get rid of diet
culture and ask the questionwhat the heck is health anyway?
We're looking into the researchand the science behind what
(01:06):
gives you a healthy life, freefrom the sacrifice and the
restriction that diet cultureplaces on you, and I interviewed
some fantastic guests,including the one today is
Melissa Backhurst.
She's actually a real person,just like you, who emailed me
and said hey, I'd love to comeon your podcast to share my
story.
And the story goes like thisMelissa started competing in
bodybuilding and bikini comps in, I guess, her mid-twenties and
(01:29):
her weight was constantly goingup, it was going down, she was
swinging from dangerously thinto feeling slightly above her
comfort zone and then, even whenshe stopped counting macros and
trying to just eat intuitively,still that guilt and shame that
was still hanging around herand she's still finding it hard
to get rid of it today.
During her comp days, melissa'sdiet went incredibly low in
(01:51):
terms of calories and this iswhere she began binge eating.
After she quit bodybuilding,she's been trying to maintain a
healthy weight but to be honest,it's been a bit of a relentless
cycle of trying to be good andnot eating enough, and she's
just trying to work it all out.
But it sounds to me like she'slearned a whole bunch and she's
intuitive eating so well thesedays.
So in today's episode, melissais going to be sharing her
(02:14):
journey with us.
She's talking about hersetbacks, her realizations and
also how she is now movingfurther towards balance with
healthy eating and not justchasing a number on the scales.
So, melissa, let's talk.
Melissa, welcome to today'sepisode.
Thanks for being on here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You emailed me and you wrote me.
You told me your story, youtold me where you're at and you
suggested maybe I'd like to letother people know about what
you've been through so that theydon't have to go through what
you've been through, so thatthey don't have to go through
what you've been through.
So can you start me from thebeginning?
Tell me about your relationshipwith food growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So as a kid.
I grew up in a family thatthere was certainly diet culture
present.
My mum was constantly countingcalories.
She had the calorie king bookback in those days where it was
all manual and you know she'd becounting all her meals.
She always ate separate mealsto the rest of the family.
It was always about losing fivekilos and then she'd gain it
and then she'd lose it again.
(03:12):
So that was very much in mychildhood.
My mum never put anyrestrictions on me personally.
I was sort of naturally afairly you know, a fairly skinny
kid.
But my sister, who was a littlebigger than me, would sometimes
get comments from mom about youknow, do you need to be eating
that or haven't you had enough?
So I think, yeah, it wasn't mepersonally, but it was certainly
(03:32):
something that I grew up around.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, and then you mentioned that you got into
bodybuilding, which sounds likeit wasn't.
It wasn't your mom whoinfluenced you to do this,
although there certainly was adiet culture growing up.
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So my mom was always into the gym.
She would always go off to thegym in the morning and, and you
know, it was very much a part ofher life, but for her it was
more maintenance, sort of youknow so, so, so she could eat
more, and that was what she'dsay.
I got into the gym when I firstmoved out of home, around 20,
more, just as a hobby and tomanage my mental health.
Actually, I had some anxietyissues and I found that going to
(04:06):
the gym helped me to sort ofget out of that headspace and
just to focus on something else.
And so really it was aboutmental health.
I found I really enjoyed weighttraining.
I enjoyed the weights, I didbody pump classes and then I
went into the gym and startedlearning to do it myself and I
think it was just that, as Isaid, I was fairly lean back
then.
I think it was just that, as Isaid, I was fairly lean back
(04:27):
then.
I think it was not so muchnaturally, but it was probably
just that I was a bit of ananxious person and I guess I had
a somewhat troubledrelationship with food in that
sense as I got older, in thatwhen I was very anxious I had
trouble eating, so I was fairlyskinny.
When I went into the gym Igained muscle quickly and you
could see that muscle.
So I looked, you know, I hadthat natural sort of muscle
definition and and I enjoyedgetting strong.
(04:48):
But it was more comments comingfrom other people who would say
, oh, like, do you compete?
And, to be honest, the firstfew times I had that question, I
just compete in what?
What are you talking about?
And then say, you know, do youdo fitness competitions?
And I said, no, I don't knowwhat that's about.
And I think maybe, as peopletalk to me about that, I
probably went onto Instagram orsocial media and felt, started
(05:09):
to follow people that were inthat world, um, and then thought
I'd thought I'd compete as as abit of a challenge, cause, you
know, like I said, I enjoyedweight training, um, what I was
not aware of at that time was,uh, the huge role that diet
played, um and played, and howdamaging I suppose that that
would end up being for my mentalhealth but also my relationship
(05:31):
with food.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
At this point you're still quite young, right?
How old are you?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So early 20s, early to mid-20s, and what surprised
me actually getting into thatworld was that there were a lot
of much younger women.
So I sort of felt in my midtwenties that maybe I was a
little, I had a little bit morelife experience and was able to
separate myself a little fromall the pressure that pressure
to be incredibly lean andwhatever it was that we were
(05:57):
trying to achieve.
But there were women in their,you know, late teens, early
twenties and that was whatshocked me.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And this is my hot take on the whole fitness
competition industry it is aculture that allows eating
disorders to go wild, thatencourages eating disorders,
that teaches girls how to haveeating disorders, that gives
them eating disorders if theydidn't have eating disorders and
then will applaud you forhaving the most severe out of
control eating disorder and itfeels so toxic to me.
(06:27):
I can fully understand why.
It's a really enjoyable thingto do.
It feels like there's a reallygood community around it.
It's a really nicecompanionship.
Everyone's really supportive ofeach other.
Of course, it's the competitionaspect.
That's certainly there, but Icould fully see all the pros.
But there's this huge thingthat people aren't talking about
(06:47):
is the fact that this is kindof just a glorified eating
disorder realm.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, look, absolutely.
I think that, particularlycoming into it for the first
time and and you know, as I said, following a lot of people on
social media, social media is areally big part of it, I think
as well I noticed that therewere a lot of women who would
talk about how they had eatingdisorders growing up and that
now they'd recovered and nowthey'd learned so much and were
(07:15):
eating so much more and wereworking out and had gained, I
guess, muscle and trying to makethat distinction between the
two, whereas to me, even withoutsort of really understanding
what was going on there, itstruck me as they'd sort of
swapped one addiction for theother, like it was, you know,
restricting food, and thenthey'd kind of come and, yes,
they were probably eating more,or differently, I would say, but
(07:37):
you know whether that was thesort of you know, the obsession
with clean eating or thecounting of macros and calories
to try and achieve a goal.
Ultimately, what they were doingwas quite similar, just with
some muscle.
And it really worried me, as Isaid, even being in my
mid-twenties, looking at themuch younger girls who were
doing it and restricting wholefood groups, and I just thought,
(07:59):
my goodness, that is dangerous,and I think I was too far in it
before I realized just howdangerous it was.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So can you talk to me about the moment where you
realized what is this, what am Idoing?
This has actually done a wholelot more harm than good.
Was there a moment?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Look, there are a couple of moments, I think, that
really stand out to me.
I think the biggest thing forme was that you get to the last
few weeks before a competition.
You're in prep mode andeveryone's incredibly lean and
gaunt faced.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Can you spell out for anyone who doesn't know what is
prep mode?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh well, just so, you're going to prep for a
competition and that can sort ofbe up to 20 weeks prior, and
that's when you're reallydialing everything in your diet
becomes quite strict.
You're really dialing,everything in your diet becomes
quite strict.
You are working out way toomuch.
Usually You've got a mix ofyour weight training but then
also and in my case especially,a lot of intense cardio and it's
(08:55):
all really about reducing thecalories, right, trying to have
more calories going out than aregoing in, which now I think of
it and I go.
That is just insane.
But that real sort of period ofintense preparation where
everything becomes about thiscompetition.
It is so all-consuming that allyou think about and all you
talk about are macros andtraining and that sort of thing.
(09:17):
And I think you get to the endof it and it's almost glorified
and sort of applauded that youare incredibly lean, tired, no
energy, looking almost unwell,and that is expected, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
And so you were doing prep and you were having a
realization.
You got to the end of this veryintense period and you go.
What was going through yourbrain?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think the fact that you're never quite satisfied
with where you're at and thatyou know I've listened to many
of your episodes before aboutpeople who, in a weight loss
sense, have gotten to a pointwhere they're at their goal
weight but they're still notsatisfied.
And then you look back and youthink, oh my goodness, look how
you know how lean I was.
Why, why, what was wrong withme?
Um, it was sort of a little bitlike that.
(10:07):
You get right to the end of itand you've either lost muscle
because you've been eating sofew calories, and then you're
sort of looking a bit flat andyou think, well, this isn't what
I was going for.
Um, you're not lean enough incertain areas because, of course
, we can't pick and choose wherewe lose fat, and so it's just
getting to the end and still notbeing satisfied, maybe realize
(10:27):
that this is just fruitless.
Like, I suppose, any goal thatis based on aesthetics, it's
also objective.
You get up on a stage andyou're being rated by people who
have opinions and preferences.
It doesn't matter how hardyou've worked.
It's not like doing somethinglike powerlifting, where you
have a weight goal, you reach acertain point and someone's then
deciding who they think looksbest.
(10:48):
And one thing that stands out tome is I remember being
backstage at a show and hearingquite a young girl say something
along the lines of I just can'twait to have a slice of bread.
And I remember thinking tomyself my goodness, I didn't
actually class myself as beingin that category because I was
counting macros.
I had continued to eat bread.
I was obviously restricting ina very different way.
(11:08):
So I remember thinking, oh, mygoodness, this girl hasn't eaten
bread in 20 weeks and thinkingthat that was just absurd and
realizing how damaging that thatwould be for her.
But I don't think I countedmyself as one of them.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, Did you have to have left the community and
have had some hindsight beforeyou started to go?
Oh wait, that was pretty.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
that wasn't right, I think that a lot of people,
after doing a show, will sort ofhave what I guess they'd call a
blowout and they've gained allthe weight back plus some.
And those people talking openlyabout it made me realize that
everyone ends up in the samespot and it's a really bad place
mentally and people willacknowledge that.
But I think you're discouragedfrom talking about that because
(11:53):
it is seen as, I guess, your ownpersonal failing Like I didn't
have willpower to do a properreverse diet where you've gone
back up slowly in terms of yourintake and I think that it's
seen as you're failing andyou're criticized for doing that
, and so people don't talk aboutthe struggle afterwards.
I think it's only when you go,when you do remove yourself from
(12:14):
that community to an extent andyou go looking for other people
in a similar situation, thatyou find there's a lot of people
out there and even just intalking to you now you know
there's that kind of oh andcriticizing this big, massive
industry that has these reallystrong names, and then it's
almost a little bit taboo.
You don't.
You don't criticize it becauseit's it's me that failed, as
opposed to this industry failingus, because ultimately it's you
(12:37):
know, it's the health andwellness industry, but it's not
nobody in that I mean very fewpeople in that industry and
doing those competitions arewhat I would class healthy, at
least in that you know, in thatprep phase and around a
competition.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, because what is true health, I think so
often in the health andwellness space we are taught to
sacrifice wellbeing in pursuitof looking a certain way and in
the fitness comps, that's thedefinition of how I see it.
I think it's you're giving upall your head space, you're
giving up all your free will,all that attention.
As you said, you have to beobsessive in order to be able to
(13:15):
be that controlled around food.
There is no room for living abalanced life.
By definition of it.
It is, as you said, setting youup quite physically and
chemically for this blowout.
That it is, I think, quite tobe honest, protective, that you
are going through a blowoutperiod, because if you weren't
(13:35):
and you're going, I actually cankind of keep going on this that
would be incredibly dangerousand in fact, as a sport, I do
think it can be a very dangeroussport and I don't think that's
spoken about enough.
But fundamentally, post prepphase, your whole body.
There's so much interestingresearch behind like
semi-starvation diets, which Ithink this is, and how obsessive
you become, how you startdreaming about food, how you
(13:57):
start like daydreaming aboutfood, how every thought comes
back to food, every conversationcomes back to food, and that's
just that part.
Beyond that, there's also thatvery intense craving for the
foods, like the young girl whowanted to have bread.
Your metabolism must slow inorder to protect you because it
thinks you're trying to starveitself.
And then you've got thesecravings and it is just an
(14:19):
inevitable tidal wave of eating.
That has to happen and it's notlike you know.
This is just one person whoit's happening to.
This is the norm and, as I said, it's thank goodness it
happened to you and that you areone of the people who
experienced this blowout, whichI guess is like a really nice
reframe.
When we go through periods wherewe binge and overeat, we often
think that it is a sign oflacking, of not being enough.
(14:42):
I see the exact opposite, Ithink.
Can you learn to be gratefulfor each binge in the way that
it's kind of giving you a signto say something was not up and
I've got your back because I'mnot going to let you
self-sabotage and implode on us?
Can you tell me about yourbinge eating?
So, after you went through aphase of blowout eating as you
talk about, you were trying toget on top of going.
(15:03):
I don't want to keep feeling soout of control with food.
Can you talk to me about that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, look, I think binge eating has always been a
bit of an issue for me.
In fact, even during prep, whenI was on very low intake of
food, I think that I probablywas also binging.
If I'm honest with you, I wasbinging throughout, but I was
still losing weight because ofthe intense sort of exercise and
how low my diet that I wassupposed to be following was.
(15:30):
So I think that I justcontinued that after my
competitions.
Um, cause, you know, you don'thave the goal anymore.
So you think, oh, I shouldn'tbe eating so much, but I, you
know, it's not going to make adifference.
It's one thing.
I think it was very much thefoods that I'd restricted, you
know that I deemed were too highin calories or macros to fit
into my diet before.
(15:50):
So Tim Tams, chocolate, donuts,those sorts of things, but even
just everyday foods like pastaand bread and the things that
didn't fit in because I was onsuch a low intake of carbs.
It would just be, yeah, I'dallow myself to buy the packet
of Tim Tams and then I'd eat it,and if there were two, I'd
probably eat two.
It was just that feeling of, oh,I can finally eat again and
(16:12):
that's something that I'vestruggled.
My last competition was in 2021.
Three years later, I stillstruggle a little bit with that.
I'm much better than I was, butyeah, when it's in front of me
it's so many years ofrestriction All I want to do is
just eat the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Where are you now?
Because it sounds like you'vebeen diving into intuitive
eating, learning to have ahealthier relationship with food
, but it's still tricky becauseyou still have that internal
brain going.
No, but this is the way weshould be doing it.
So where are you at at themoment?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I've definitely come a very long way, certainly, with
my eating.
I do not count or there's nosort of thought throughout my
day about trying to reach anumber or stay under a number by
any means.
I think where I still strugglethe most is maybe just in the
still feeling those, that senseof guilt.
(17:03):
So I suppose if I do have ameal that and you know, I know
you talk about it all the timethat you can't forget how many
macros or how many calories arein something when you've done it
for such a long time, sosometimes in my brain I will
have that sense that okay, thisis, you know, a very calorie
dense meal.
I will still eat the meal, Iwill be fine while eating the
meal, but then afterwards thereis still that feeling of maybe I
(17:26):
should skip breakfast tomorrowor maybe I should not.
You know, maybe I should not.
You know, maybe I should beeating better for the next week
to make up for it.
And that is, it takes a realeffort for me to go.
No, that is not necessary.
I just need to continue goingforward and eating good food and
I'm very I'm on a bit of a sortof you know journey at the
moment to make sure that I'mcrowding in good foods, because
(17:46):
I think for so many years it wasabout the amount and not the
nutrients.
And now I think you know Idon't care if it means me adding
a heap of you know so-calledbad foods to something to get my
vegetables in.
I'm going to do it because it'sabout getting good things in.
So it constantly requires me toreframe that in my mind.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, and during those early stages of recovery
from an eating disorder,disordered eating, certainly
that script that you need tohave.
You got to have it on the andyou do, it sounds like it.
You've got to have it thereready to go, because your brain
does flip back into old patternsand then you get to counteract
it and that process in itselfcan feel quite exhausting.
I really know that does geteasier At some point you do kind
(18:31):
of forget the macros and thecalories, but that takes way too
long, an awfully large amountof time, sadly.
But I think what you are doingright now it sounds like so key.
Can we talk about this inrelation to fear of weight gain,
in the fact that duringrecovery weight gain can happen,
and how that plays intotriggering you to go?
(18:52):
Oh, maybe I should just kind ofbe extra good this week or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, that urge to diet is still very much there.
It's going away.
It's sort of it's a very slowprocess.
I think I still very much lookat myself in the mirror
occasionally and think, oh,that's, this is not the me that
I, you know, that I identifiedwith for all of those years.
It's very different and thereis that sense of, oh, it's
gotten a bit out of control.
Now I'll just lose you know Xamount just to get back to sort
(19:18):
of a happy medium.
But I know that for thelong-term, ultimately for me to
do that is going to be damagingbecause I'm going to get back
into that restrictive mindset.
So I keep sort of thinking ofthe long-term goal, but it is
hard.
And long-term goal, but it ishard.
And I also have a partner who isinto bodybuilding himself and
so he is still a little bit inthat sort of macros and have I
had enough protein and don'twant to gain too much fat.
(19:39):
And that's difficult because Isort of have to say to him I
don't, I don't want to hear this.
If you're going to, you know,count or do these things when
you're preparing dinner for us,for instance, you can do that,
but I don't want to hear aboutit.
So that's hard because there isthat sense of you know, I want
to be supportive of him and hisgoals, but I also have to keep
reminding him they're not mygoals anymore and aesthetics are
(20:00):
not important to me.
Health is important to me.
So that's probably the biggestongoing challenge, that feeling
of you know.
Oh, maybe I could just lose alittle bit and get back down a
little bit.
But thinking of the long-termand going no, my body will end
up where it's meant to be in thelong-term.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I think for me, when I think about you you
talked about before you got intoall of this.
You sounded like you were goingto the gym in a way that was
just really enjoyable, and yourweight was never something that
you had to think about.
And I think, if I think aboutfor you, that is the point I'd
like you to get back to.
So if you can start to try andthink back like who was that
girl and she was young and howdid she think about food and how
(20:40):
did she maybe eat, I think it'squite an interesting thing and
I think what is a challenge whenyou come through from a world
of where you've done a lot ofrestriction and then you try and
practice intuitive eating, Ithink one of the big challenges
is learning to be okay withhunger, and hunger can feel very
threatening, it can feel veryscary.
We talked about this idea ofyour body trying to protect you
(21:00):
right, of being like, okay, no,I'm going to eat because I don't
trust you, and so you've gonethrough this period where you've
kind of eaten more so that yourbody can learn okay, no, food's
always available and you'recurrently in that phase and as
you practice it, I think you canstart to kind of go.
No, I can learn to have acomfortable sense of hunger that
isn't scary, that isn'tthreatening, because just like
(21:22):
we want to have the urge to weebefore we wee or we want to feel
tired before we go to sleep,hunger is that we should have
that sensation a few times a day.
And I think when you come out ofthat restrictive phase, it's
one of those things where youkind of learn to have that
healthy relationship with hunger.
And that takes a really longtime before you can start to go.
I can kind of play with that alittle bit more.
In addition, every time you'rehaving the thoughts of, oh, I
(21:45):
should just go on a quick fix,it can kind of tighten up your
body's distrust of hunger.
It makes you kind of go oh,I've got to hold on to that
tighter.
It sets you back a little bit.
It's just a thought I haveabout our relationship with
hunger and how trying not tofear it yeah, yeah, and I
suppose that's exactly rightthat I'm learning to go.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Oh, like before I left work yesterday I thought,
oh, I've got a banana here, am Ihungry?
Oh, I'm a little bit hungry.
I'll have that so that I cancomfortably get to dinner.
And that's a big thing for me,because in the past it was not
about hunger, it was about whatcan I eat, what can I fit in
today, and so that's a reallybig mindset shift for me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
I love that you're doing thatYou're thinking about, you're
asking yourself the questions.
If you are getting hungry, youare actually eating something.
You're doing the practice.
Before we wrap up, is thereanything you want to say to
younger you or someone else whois contemplating doing a fitness
comp that you want the world toknow?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, look, I was thinking about this.
While I would never say tosomeone not to do something, I
think just really consideringthe different risks involved and
the impact that can have onyour mental health and your
metabolism and your relationshipwith food in the long term,
before going into something likethat.
And I guess I would just sayyou know, I think that there's
so much more to life thanaesthetics and it's taken me a
(23:04):
while to get to this, but, youknow, being able to go to the
gym just to have some me time or, you know, to clear your head,
or even having performance-basedgoals, which are fun.
You know, I'm trying to bench acertain amount of weight right
now and it's just it's fun.
You can still go ahead and havethat experience and be fit
without it being about the wayyou look, and I think it's just
(23:26):
gaining that perspective whichtakes time.
But I just recommend thatanybody really think carefully
about the impact that it canhave.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I will come in here and add to this that I would
never recommend a fitnesscompetition.
I would strongly discourageanyone from doing it and I
certainly would never let mykids do it, because I rarely see
anyone who ends up unscathed byeating disorders.
And you think about how longrecovery takes and the impact on
(23:57):
bone density, your period, allthe kinds of things that are
quite long lasting effects.
I think it is one of thosethings.
I think we need to talk aboutit a lot more.
Melissa, thank you for havingthis conversation with me.
I'm so grateful for you sharingyour story.
Thank you so much.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.