October 17, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast, Trevan Strean, co-founder and creative director at Share, unpacks why branding and design are critical for nonprofits.
Trevan explains how outdated visuals, inconsistent messaging, and neglected storytelling can erode trust before a donor even considers giving. He shares practical steps to keep your brand fresh without losing its identity, create a simple style guide, and communicate consistently across every channel—from your website to volunteer t-shirts.
If your nonprofit is struggling to stand out in a crowded cause space, this conversation will equip you with the tools to build a brand that inspires confidence, trust, and long-term support.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
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SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Speer.
Joined today by my friend TrevinStreen, who's the co-founder and
creative director at Share, todig into what honestly, what is
one of my favorite topics aroundnonprofits, which is branding
and kind of positioning yourselfin the market.
So I am excited for thisconversation.
(00:39):
Trevin, welcome in.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Thanks, Megan.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
So tell the audience a little bit about yourself and
your background in design thatled us to this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Yeah, sure.
I am a jack of all trades,master of non-designer.
I've worked in video production,brand strategy, industrial
design across a variety ofindustries with software and
robotics and consumer goods, andnow nonprofits.
I'm focused on helping thembecome the best that they can be
(01:15):
with the resources that theyhave.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Very good.
I love that.
So to that end, as we kick thisoff, we I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna call out names.
I'm not gonna like not gonnawebsite shame anyone from the
podcast.
But here at Nonprofit Hub, wegot an email the other day from
an organization that was lookingfor a suggestion on a on a
(01:39):
vendor, and I was like, oh, Ihaven't heard of this
organization before.
So I went online just to likecheck them out and see what they
were about.
The nicest way that I can saythis is it looked like someone
made a like I'm gonna I'm gonnaguess early 2000s flyer in
(02:02):
Microsoft Publisher, and theythen thumbtacked that to the
internet as if it was some sortof telephone, right?
It had that kind of vibe to it.
And my initial thought, knowingnothing about this organization,
was I don't see why anyone islike, I don't see how anyone's
(02:23):
giving you money.
I don't know how in today'smarketplace, with all of the
forward progress we have made indesign and in user experience
and in storytelling, I don'tknow how anyone can like kind of
compete with a publisher filethumbtacked to the internet.
So I'd love to use that as ajumping off point here for this
(02:45):
conversation and kind of getyour thoughts on why branding
matters.
Because I can see from anonprofit's perspective, we're
so focused on the mission, we'reso focused on the what we do and
how we provide for our communitythat sometimes that can feel
like it's taking a backseat.
My guess is that you would agreewith me it should not.
(03:09):
But but let me go ahead and giveyou a platform for the reasons
why.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Yeah.
I so first of all, I think wewould both be in agreement that
we want all nonprofits tosucceed.
Correct.
It is both of our goals, yes,and the reasons we are doing
what we are doing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
I was at the bridge conference a little while ago,
and I was explaining to someonelike I want good to keep going.
Whatever we have to do to keepgood going, I'm here for it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Yes.
Agreed.
That said, there are somethinglike two million nonprofits in
the US.
And you are effectivelycompeting against each other for
fundraising dollars and donorattention.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Two million?
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
Two million.
I can provide a source on thatif we need to in the show notes.
And I think the other side ofthis with your website comment
is generally speaking, peopledon't compare your experience to
their other worst experience.
(04:17):
They compare it to their bestexperience.
I like to use the analogy thatNetflix is everyone's best, most
consistent software experience,web experience, and that
translates your website as anonprofit.
So design has sort of becometable stakes, I would say.
(04:40):
It's like a consumerexpectation.
And if you have bad design, orif you don't have thoughtful,
complete, consistent design,then you're losing trust out of
the gate.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
I would agree, right?
If I see something that looksdramatically behind or outdated,
or is not easy to use, uh Idon't even know that it's a
conscious choice that I wouldsay, oh, I don't trust them.
But there's something about itthat makes me like, I don't
know.
And I pretty quickly move on tothe next.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Yeah.
Yep.
We all do that.
We make the snap judgment.
And everyone is striving to notbe judgy, but it is inherent to
how we navigate the world,especially from a visual
communication standpoint.
I would plug that good design isgood communication, and
(05:41):
nonprofits' job in a largeextent, is to communicate well
to their donors and the peoplethat they serve.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
So one of the things that I noticed on this very poor
website, and I feel badly, ifyou're listening and you know
this is you, I am sorry.
One of the things that I noticedis that even down to like the
fonts that they chose, thecolors that they chose, the logo
image, everything felt dated.
Obviously, there's a there is aa point to be made for
(06:17):
consistency, right?
For brand awareness and brandfeel.
But talk to us about how we cando that and not like there has
to be a way to keep the brandfresh and relevant without
losing it, right?
Because I do think sometimes wesay, Yep, this is my logo, and
(06:38):
this will be my logo for thenext 50 years.
But it does become dated after awhile.
And so what's that balance?
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Yeah, we actually have not to name names, and I'm
not going to.
We have a handful of clientsthat have been resistant to
updating their logo, fresheningup things, improving,
modernizing the visual identityin the way that people receive
communication in today's world,right on the same page with you.
(07:11):
Like I'm not a big proponent ofdoing a full rebrand necessarily
for most nonprofits, if theyhave that dated logo, like
you're saying.
Yeah.
But at a bare minimum,freshening it up to be a little
bit more polished, retain thebrand equity that you've built
(07:34):
around your nonprofit and thereputation you've built.
Too often I've seen people saywe want to do a rebrand and
build a new logo, and then noone recognizes who you are.
SPEAKER_02 (07:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
So I understand the hesitation and the pitfalls
around that process.
I would say every nonprofit'sbest investment would most
likely, if they're in thatposition, be to hire a
freelancer to just give themsome baseline visual guidelines.
(08:10):
I know that that doesn't feellike it's a good use of money
sometimes in service of themission, but it will pay
dividends in the long run.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Because to your point, right,you are not competing.
And I know in the nonprofitsector, we don't like to use
terms like competing.
We don't want to think of it aslike the corporate y business
style competition.
But especially in this economy,we are all fighting for the same
dollars.
Right.
And so to your point, I thinkit's critical to make sure that
(08:44):
you're putting your best footforward.
Right.
Yeah.
In the same way that youwouldn't go to a major donor
meeting in the same clothes thatyou wore to the gym that
morning.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
There is a way that we present ourselves to the
world, and those things matterin a first impression.
And especially in a in asomeone's just checking you out
online, where that is the onlyimpression.
unknown (09:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
And I think the other aspect of this that so
many nonprofits take forgranted, maybe, or take or think
that they have it dialed, ismailing their story and getting
their mission articulated.
Like what is unique about theway that you are serving the
(09:32):
mission and audience that you'reserving?
I think we just sort of lump alot of things into let's just
say like I serve homelessness.
That's not specific or unique oridentifiable from a brand
perspective.
And you just get lumped into allof the other causes or
(09:54):
nonprofits serving that cause.
So how do you carve out yourspace within a greater cause
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
That's an interesting point, right?
Because especially so I live inthe Pittsburgh area.
There are three that I can thinkof off the top of my head
organizations who serve homelesspopulation here.
If you were to just hand me aflyer or brochure or even show
me a social media post withoutthe name on it, and just ask me,
(10:26):
like, which one is this?
I would not have a way to tellyou, oh, this is organization A
versus organization B.
Because we're telling verysimilar stories.
Unfortunately, it's such aproblem that we need three
organizations that are dealingwith it.
So, what does that look like ifsomebody's listening going, oh
yeah, that's where we are?
What's maybe the first step ofevaluating how to change that or
(10:50):
what needs to be done?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I think asking yourself, could I define my
organization with a one-sentencemission statement that
identifies who I serve and how Iserve them uniquely?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
That's a good starting point.
It's free.
You can do it yourself.
And then kind of the extensionof that is what is the
personality of my organizationand brand that I want to present
to the world, and pick threewords.
And if you can do those twothings, you have like a very
(11:30):
light beginnings of a brandstrategy because you have a
clearly articulated mission andthe way you want to present
yourself to the world.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
So good.
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
And then you start with what you were saying about
not being able to identify thoseflyers.
You have a jumping off point tostart saying, okay, how do I
communicate my mission in thispersonality visually?
And visuals would be the nextstep of that.
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SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
Let's talk about that visual part.
Because I think that especiallyin the current culture of fast
scrolling Instagram, how do wewhat does it look like to make
sure that somebody without evenhaving just a logo in the corner
that somebody knows, oh hey, Ibet that's from this nonprofit?
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
It's tricky.
Yes.
As you say, in this newfast-paced environment.
I think it's less about thevisual itself and more about
like let's set aside having thegreatest design ever, having
branded photography and likeanimations and motion, and
(13:38):
something that only alarge-scale nonprofit with an
in-house team could do.
The most important thing is whatcan you do consistently.
So if what you can doconsistently is one post a week,
(13:59):
that's a Canva template, butit's thoughtful and gets your
message across, that's what youshould do.
Because your audience will adaptto the consistency of
communication that you put out.
(14:22):
Do you have the resources andvisual chaps to produce that
much variety?
Are you that confident in yourvisual design system to execute
that?
It sounds easy in your head.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Until you start to do it.
Yes.
And I say that as someone whoruns an organization that posts
content 20 365 days a year.
Nonprofit Hubbies consistentlyputting out new stuff and our
social is out every day.
And it is a beast thatconsistently needs to be fed if
that's what you're doing.
And it is a huge undertaking.
(15:02):
So to say, I'm gonna get on mysoapbox for a minute.
You have unleashed my opinion.
Something that irks my soul tono end is when we say to
somebody who already has afull-time workload, can you just
add social media on top of it?
Right?
Social media itself, right now,right?
(15:24):
If you want to do it well, andif you want to do that
consistently, even if you'redoing five days a week, right?
You're just doing it on theweekdays.
That in and of itself is a fullworkload to do it well.
And man, I wish we could stopunderestimating that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Totally.
In today's world, it really ismultiple jobs.
You should have someone focusedon social media, engaging with
your audience, and you shouldhave someone designing and
producing the content.
So at a minimum, you're lookingat two people, not the hey, can
you do this extra?
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Yeah, K just had that on how hard can it be?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
So I mean, a lot of the times we consult clients to
just say, either do it or don'tdo it at all.
Don't be in the middle.
Commit or don't commit.
One of the ways that most peoplecould probably do themselves or
with the help of a part-timeperson just pretty quickly would
(16:31):
be take your existing brand andcreate a one to two page style
sheet that has here's your logoor all the logos that are
approved.
Here's your primary color, yoursecondary color.
If you want to get crazy andhave three, go for it.
And then have that like missionstatement and brand personality
(16:54):
words on the sheet as well.
So you can you have this onesheet that you can hand out to
people and you're like, this isour brand.
It's not where you should endup, but it's a really good
starting point that is veryresource-like.
And most people can access thatlevel of documentation.
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
So I want to maybe give people a framework for
this, right?
Oh, as like should I is it timefor me to do this?
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:29):
If the answer to So, for example, um if the answer to
somebody asking for your logo,if you're working with a
designer or an ad agency orwhatever, if your answer is to
send them a Word document thatjust has a JPEG pasted into it
and that's the logo that you'vebeen using for the last decade
(17:50):
and a half, it is time.
unknown (17:53):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
I as a dis as a someone with a design
background, this is one of mybiggest pet peeves, is when I
see, like, oh, I printed my logoon this postcard or I did an ad
in a program and it is superpixelated.
So when we say logos that areapproved, those logos should be
high quality files, highresolution, in an actual photo
(18:19):
format.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:22):
So if the answer is no right now, it is time for the
refresh.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Specifically for logos, if we wanted to get real
in the weeds on file formats,you want an SVG because it
doesn't have a resolution andscales infinitely.
So it will be high quality nomatter what format you put it
in.
Yeah.
Like that should be your go-to.
(18:49):
Not a JPEG.
If you have a JPEG logo, even ifit's not in a Word document,
just by itself.
If you have a JPEG logo that yougive to everyone, you should
probably do this.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Yes, it is time for a refresh.
So I want to let's go back tosomething else that you said for
the style guide, though, andthat is your primary color, your
secondary, and if you're gettingcrazy, a third one.
I worked for an organization onetime pretty early on in my
career who had a very like apretty well-drawn out style
(19:23):
guide that had been very welldone, and they had 13 colors.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
Right?
Is so what are we shooting for?
Because 13 was like anybodycould decide I like these four,
and the next guy could say Ilike these two, and now our
brand does not look similar fromone design to the next, right?
So what what's the sweet spotfor brand colors?
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
I think it depends.
My recommendation always in thisframing of conversation that
we're having is keep it simple.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
Three max.
Yeah.
You don't need more.
I mean, think of uh this isgonna be a Pittsburgh analogy.
Think of the Steelers.
Like their colors are yellow andblack and white, and that's it.
And you recognize them by thatplus their logo.
You don't need so many colors tobe recognized.
(20:26):
It's actually probably moreeffective if you have less,
because you're starting to carveout a niche in someone's mind
around specific colors.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
I actually was just having this conversation with
somebody not that long ago.
I understand I'm biased.
I'm from Pittsburgh, super proudof it.
I do think that Pittsburgh isthe only city from a strictly
from a branding perspective thatdid it right.
Because all three of our majorsports teams are black and gold.
And that's it.
So like right, Pirates PenguinSteelers.
(20:58):
Now, I I don't know that thePirates at this point qualified
to actually be called a majorleague team anymore, but we're
like that's a whole separatepodcast.
When someone thinks Pittsburgh,they think black and gold,
regardless, right?
It's become the identity of thewhole city.
And I don't see that in a lot ofother major markets.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Yeah, this is a perfect billboard advertisement
for consistency in brandcommunication.
How are you consistentlydeploying this across multiple
channels?
Like, yeah, okay, on socialmedia, yes, but what about out
of home and sending mail anddonor asks?
And what happens when yourvolunteers hit the ground?
(21:41):
Like, are there t-shirts thatcolor?
So, like, how are you activatingyour brand across all these
different touch points withinyour organization as you execute
your mission?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
I think that's a good call out though, because I
think unfortunately a nonprofit,we tend to live pretty siloed.
Across the board, right?
So somebody who is maybe incharge of fundraising or in
charge of social media orwhatever may not be the same
(22:14):
person who's getting thevolunteer t-shirts.
So this really has to, I thinkthis is a great call out that
the brand is not just for themarketing department, right?
It really has to be a bought-inby the whole organization piece.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Yes.
Uh, I think this is something Iwas having a conversation with
someone else about the otherday.
Too often people get hung up onthe idea that your brand is your
logo.
That is not what a brand is.
Your brand is effectively whatother people say about you when
(22:53):
you're not in the room.
It's like the perception andyour reputation.
And the logo is just the markthat they identify you by.
It's important.
I'm not gonna say that it thatit doesn't matter, but it's more
important that you'recultivating a good perception
and a consistent reputation thatpeople can attach to that logo.
(23:17):
And I think that comes to whatyou're saying about branding
living in marketing only, orliving in silos.
It's like, no, that's we need tohave a zoomed out perspective on
what brand is, and that this isintegral to how we conduct
ourselves as an organization.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Okay, so to that end, I know we have a lot of
executive directors who listento the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
So let's talk to them specifically.
If they're listening, going,ooh, you know, I'm not sure that
we have that big picture view ofthe brand, right?
It is maybe something that livedin the marketing department or
it has just been about ourwebsite or our logo.
What's the what's the firstplace to start to get people
(24:08):
thinking that way?
How do we help drive that changeas leaders?
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
I am a big advocate of brand strategy, uh, which is
basically what is your processof how you're going to cultivate
that brand.
And I think that is a good wayto get high level because the
core elements of that are likewhat is your mission and
(24:35):
articulating that.
Like if you achieve yourmission, what is your vision of
that outcome?
So that would be mission,mission and vision.
And then I think values are asuper important part of brand
strategy that end up tricklingdown in organizations where you
(24:56):
could think of those as how arewe going to conduct ourselves
internally and externally, andwhat are the standards that
we're going to hold ourselves toas we do business and serve the
communities that we're serving.
I think that's the best way tostart, in my opinion, to connect
it to the rest of theorganization, because you're
(25:18):
effectively creating a frameworkof expectations for that should
permeate across everything thatyou do.
Where you go from there kind ofstarts coming to what we were
talking about before with howare you presenting yourself?
How are you activating yourbrand across channels?
How are you speaking to youraudience?
(25:39):
Who are you speaking to?
So it can get to be a lot and itcan get to be overwhelming.
For the top-level thing,clarifying mission, vision,
values is a great place tostart.
That is also something that youcan do yourself.
Um could bring in an expert, butthis is something that you could
(26:04):
do by yourself because no oneknows your organization or
mission as well as you do.
unknown (26:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
So speaking of the experts, tell us a little bit
about the work that you guys doat Share.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, uh at Share, we help small to medium-sized
nonprofits do digital marketingand fundraising and branding.
So we, you know, we are strivingto equip these people with the
tools and processes that theyneed for that next leg of
(26:40):
growth.
We help you grow yourfundraising so that you can grow
your impact.
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
That's great.
I love it.
Trevin, there is a question thatI've been asking everybody as we
close out this episode, but I'vebeen asking it as a closer off
season, understanding that thishas been kind of a crazy year
for a lot of nonprofits and justkind of in the world in general.
What's your one piece of adviceor wisdom or encouragement to
nonprofit leaders in thisseason?
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
You can do it.
Um, I think we all so often arein a series of like self-doubt
moments where you're like, oh,am I cooked for this?
Oh, am I can I do this?
Is this my skill set?
Am I good at this?
Uh the answer is yes.
(27:28):
You can.
You are.
And don't pay so much attentionto the way that other people are
doing things.
Figure out what works for youand what you can execute on and
do that because that's going tobe the thing that you can do
most confidently and mostconsistently.
And at the end of the day,that's what's going to last over
(27:51):
the long term and let you stickaround continuing to execute
your mission.
SPEAKER_02 (27:58):
That's so good.
Trevin, thank you.
This has been fantastic, and Ithink giving people some really
practical things to think about,but also steps to take to have a
better brand so that they arenot a flyer thumbtack to the
internet.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, my guest today has beenTrevin Streen, who is the
co-founder and creative directorat Share.
My name is Megan Speer, and thisis the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast, and we'll see you nexttime.
Marketing Support Network is proud to serve the
nonprofit community by offeringfull service contact center,
fulfillment, digital marketing,and fundraising services.
Your vision is our mission, andwe can't wait to partner with
you.
Visit MarketingSupportNetwork.com for more
information.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Speer.
Joined today by my friend TrevinStreen, who's the co-founder and
creative director at Share, todig into what honestly, what is
one of my favorite topics aroundnonprofits, which is branding
and kind of positioning yourselfin the market.
So I am excited for thisconversation.
(00:39):
Trevin, welcome in.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Thanks, Megan.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
So tell the audience a little bit about yourself and
your background in design thatled us to this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Yeah, sure.
I am a jack of all trades,master of non-designer.
I've worked in video production,brand strategy, industrial
design across a variety ofindustries with software and
robotics and consumer goods, andnow nonprofits.
I'm focused on helping thembecome the best that they can be
(01:15):
with the resources that theyhave.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Very good.
I love that.
So to that end, as we kick thisoff, we I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna call out names.
I'm not gonna like not gonnawebsite shame anyone from the
podcast.
But here at Nonprofit Hub, wegot an email the other day from
an organization that was lookingfor a suggestion on a on a
(01:39):
vendor, and I was like, oh, Ihaven't heard of this
organization before.
So I went online just to likecheck them out and see what they
were about.
The nicest way that I can saythis is it looked like someone
made a like I'm gonna I'm gonnaguess early 2000s flyer in
(02:02):
Microsoft Publisher, and theythen thumbtacked that to the
internet as if it was some sortof telephone, right?
It had that kind of vibe to it.
And my initial thought, knowingnothing about this organization,
was I don't see why anyone islike, I don't see how anyone's
(02:23):
giving you money.
I don't know how in today'smarketplace, with all of the
forward progress we have made indesign and in user experience
and in storytelling, I don'tknow how anyone can like kind of
compete with a publisher filethumbtacked to the internet.
So I'd love to use that as ajumping off point here for this
(02:45):
conversation and kind of getyour thoughts on why branding
matters.
Because I can see from anonprofit's perspective, we're
so focused on the mission, we'reso focused on the what we do and
how we provide for our communitythat sometimes that can feel
like it's taking a backseat.
My guess is that you would agreewith me it should not.
(03:09):
But but let me go ahead and giveyou a platform for the reasons
why.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Yeah.
I so first of all, I think wewould both be in agreement that
we want all nonprofits tosucceed.
Correct.
It is both of our goals, yes,and the reasons we are doing
what we are doing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
I was at the bridge conference a little while ago,
and I was explaining to someonelike I want good to keep going.
Whatever we have to do to keepgood going, I'm here for it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Yes.
Agreed.
That said, there are somethinglike two million nonprofits in
the US.
And you are effectivelycompeting against each other for
fundraising dollars and donorattention.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Two million?
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
Two million.
I can provide a source on thatif we need to in the show notes.
And I think the other side ofthis with your website comment
is generally speaking, peopledon't compare your experience to
their other worst experience.
(04:17):
They compare it to their bestexperience.
I like to use the analogy thatNetflix is everyone's best, most
consistent software experience,web experience, and that
translates your website as anonprofit.
So design has sort of becometable stakes, I would say.
(04:40):
It's like a consumerexpectation.
And if you have bad design, orif you don't have thoughtful,
complete, consistent design,then you're losing trust out of
the gate.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
I would agree, right?
If I see something that looksdramatically behind or outdated,
or is not easy to use, uh Idon't even know that it's a
conscious choice that I wouldsay, oh, I don't trust them.
But there's something about itthat makes me like, I don't
know.
And I pretty quickly move on tothe next.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Yeah.
Yep.
We all do that.
We make the snap judgment.
And everyone is striving to notbe judgy, but it is inherent to
how we navigate the world,especially from a visual
communication standpoint.
I would plug that good design isgood communication, and
(05:41):
nonprofits' job in a largeextent, is to communicate well
to their donors and the peoplethat they serve.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
So one of the things that I noticed on this very poor
website, and I feel badly, ifyou're listening and you know
this is you, I am sorry.
One of the things that I noticedis that even down to like the
fonts that they chose, thecolors that they chose, the logo
image, everything felt dated.
Obviously, there's a there is aa point to be made for
(06:17):
consistency, right?
For brand awareness and brandfeel.
But talk to us about how we cando that and not like there has
to be a way to keep the brandfresh and relevant without
losing it, right?
Because I do think sometimes wesay, Yep, this is my logo, and
(06:38):
this will be my logo for thenext 50 years.
But it does become dated after awhile.
And so what's that balance?
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Yeah, we actually have not to name names, and I'm
not going to.
We have a handful of clientsthat have been resistant to
updating their logo, fresheningup things, improving,
modernizing the visual identityin the way that people receive
communication in today's world,right on the same page with you.
(07:11):
Like I'm not a big proponent ofdoing a full rebrand necessarily
for most nonprofits, if theyhave that dated logo, like
you're saying.
Yeah.
But at a bare minimum,freshening it up to be a little
bit more polished, retain thebrand equity that you've built
(07:34):
around your nonprofit and thereputation you've built.
Too often I've seen people saywe want to do a rebrand and
build a new logo, and then noone recognizes who you are.
SPEAKER_02 (07:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
So I understand the hesitation and the pitfalls
around that process.
I would say every nonprofit'sbest investment would most
likely, if they're in thatposition, be to hire a
freelancer to just give themsome baseline visual guidelines.
(08:10):
I know that that doesn't feellike it's a good use of money
sometimes in service of themission, but it will pay
dividends in the long run.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Because to your point, right,you are not competing.
And I know in the nonprofitsector, we don't like to use
terms like competing.
We don't want to think of it aslike the corporate y business
style competition.
But especially in this economy,we are all fighting for the same
dollars.
Right.
And so to your point, I thinkit's critical to make sure that
(08:44):
you're putting your best footforward.
Right.
Yeah.
In the same way that youwouldn't go to a major donor
meeting in the same clothes thatyou wore to the gym that
morning.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
There is a way that we present ourselves to the
world, and those things matterin a first impression.
And especially in a in asomeone's just checking you out
online, where that is the onlyimpression.
unknown (09:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
And I think the other aspect of this that so
many nonprofits take forgranted, maybe, or take or think
that they have it dialed, ismailing their story and getting
their mission articulated.
Like what is unique about theway that you are serving the
(09:32):
mission and audience that you'reserving?
I think we just sort of lump alot of things into let's just
say like I serve homelessness.
That's not specific or unique oridentifiable from a brand
perspective.
And you just get lumped into allof the other causes or
(09:54):
nonprofits serving that cause.
So how do you carve out yourspace within a greater cause
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
That's an interesting point, right?
Because especially so I live inthe Pittsburgh area.
There are three that I can thinkof off the top of my head
organizations who serve homelesspopulation here.
If you were to just hand me aflyer or brochure or even show
me a social media post withoutthe name on it, and just ask me,
(10:26):
like, which one is this?
I would not have a way to tellyou, oh, this is organization A
versus organization B.
Because we're telling verysimilar stories.
Unfortunately, it's such aproblem that we need three
organizations that are dealingwith it.
So, what does that look like ifsomebody's listening going, oh
yeah, that's where we are?
What's maybe the first step ofevaluating how to change that or
(10:50):
what needs to be done?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I think asking yourself, could I define my
organization with a one-sentencemission statement that
identifies who I serve and how Iserve them uniquely?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
That's a good starting point.
It's free.
You can do it yourself.
And then kind of the extensionof that is what is the
personality of my organizationand brand that I want to present
to the world, and pick threewords.
And if you can do those twothings, you have like a very
(11:30):
light beginnings of a brandstrategy because you have a
clearly articulated mission andthe way you want to present
yourself to the world.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
So good.
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
And then you start with what you were saying about
not being able to identify thoseflyers.
You have a jumping off point tostart saying, okay, how do I
communicate my mission in thispersonality visually?
And visuals would be the nextstep of that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
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SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
Let's talk about that visual part.
Because I think that especiallyin the current culture of fast
scrolling Instagram, how do wewhat does it look like to make
sure that somebody without evenhaving just a logo in the corner
that somebody knows, oh hey, Ibet that's from this nonprofit?
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
It's tricky.
Yes.
As you say, in this newfast-paced environment.
I think it's less about thevisual itself and more about
like let's set aside having thegreatest design ever, having
branded photography and likeanimations and motion, and
(13:38):
something that only alarge-scale nonprofit with an
in-house team could do.
The most important thing is whatcan you do consistently.
So if what you can doconsistently is one post a week,
(13:59):
that's a Canva template, butit's thoughtful and gets your
message across, that's what youshould do.
Because your audience will adaptto the consistency of
communication that you put out.
(14:22):
Do you have the resources andvisual chaps to produce that
much variety?
Are you that confident in yourvisual design system to execute
that?
It sounds easy in your head.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Until you start to do it.
Yes.
And I say that as someone whoruns an organization that posts
content 20 365 days a year.
Nonprofit Hubbies consistentlyputting out new stuff and our
social is out every day.
And it is a beast thatconsistently needs to be fed if
that's what you're doing.
And it is a huge undertaking.
(15:02):
So to say, I'm gonna get on mysoapbox for a minute.
You have unleashed my opinion.
Something that irks my soul tono end is when we say to
somebody who already has afull-time workload, can you just
add social media on top of it?
Right?
Social media itself, right now,right?
(15:24):
If you want to do it well, andif you want to do that
consistently, even if you'redoing five days a week, right?
You're just doing it on theweekdays.
That in and of itself is a fullworkload to do it well.
And man, I wish we could stopunderestimating that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Totally.
In today's world, it really ismultiple jobs.
You should have someone focusedon social media, engaging with
your audience, and you shouldhave someone designing and
producing the content.
So at a minimum, you're lookingat two people, not the hey, can
you do this extra?
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Yeah, K just had that on how hard can it be?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
So I mean, a lot of the times we consult clients to
just say, either do it or don'tdo it at all.
Don't be in the middle.
Commit or don't commit.
One of the ways that most peoplecould probably do themselves or
with the help of a part-timeperson just pretty quickly would
(16:31):
be take your existing brand andcreate a one to two page style
sheet that has here's your logoor all the logos that are
approved.
Here's your primary color, yoursecondary color.
If you want to get crazy andhave three, go for it.
And then have that like missionstatement and brand personality
(16:54):
words on the sheet as well.
So you can you have this onesheet that you can hand out to
people and you're like, this isour brand.
It's not where you should endup, but it's a really good
starting point that is veryresource-like.
And most people can access thatlevel of documentation.
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
So I want to maybe give people a framework for
this, right?
Oh, as like should I is it timefor me to do this?
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:29):
If the answer to So, for example, um if the answer to
somebody asking for your logo,if you're working with a
designer or an ad agency orwhatever, if your answer is to
send them a Word document thatjust has a JPEG pasted into it
and that's the logo that you'vebeen using for the last decade
(17:50):
and a half, it is time.
unknown (17:53):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
I as a dis as a someone with a design
background, this is one of mybiggest pet peeves, is when I
see, like, oh, I printed my logoon this postcard or I did an ad
in a program and it is superpixelated.
So when we say logos that areapproved, those logos should be
high quality files, highresolution, in an actual photo
(18:19):
format.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:22):
So if the answer is no right now, it is time for the
refresh.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Specifically for logos, if we wanted to get real
in the weeds on file formats,you want an SVG because it
doesn't have a resolution andscales infinitely.
So it will be high quality nomatter what format you put it
in.
Yeah.
Like that should be your go-to.
(18:49):
Not a JPEG.
If you have a JPEG logo, even ifit's not in a Word document,
just by itself.
If you have a JPEG logo that yougive to everyone, you should
probably do this.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Yes, it is time for a refresh.
So I want to let's go back tosomething else that you said for
the style guide, though, andthat is your primary color, your
secondary, and if you're gettingcrazy, a third one.
I worked for an organization onetime pretty early on in my
career who had a very like apretty well-drawn out style
(19:23):
guide that had been very welldone, and they had 13 colors.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
Right?
Is so what are we shooting for?
Because 13 was like anybodycould decide I like these four,
and the next guy could say Ilike these two, and now our
brand does not look similar fromone design to the next, right?
So what what's the sweet spotfor brand colors?
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
I think it depends.
My recommendation always in thisframing of conversation that
we're having is keep it simple.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
Three max.
Yeah.
You don't need more.
I mean, think of uh this isgonna be a Pittsburgh analogy.
Think of the Steelers.
Like their colors are yellow andblack and white, and that's it.
And you recognize them by thatplus their logo.
You don't need so many colors tobe recognized.
(20:26):
It's actually probably moreeffective if you have less,
because you're starting to carveout a niche in someone's mind
around specific colors.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
I actually was just having this conversation with
somebody not that long ago.
I understand I'm biased.
I'm from Pittsburgh, super proudof it.
I do think that Pittsburgh isthe only city from a strictly
from a branding perspective thatdid it right.
Because all three of our majorsports teams are black and gold.
And that's it.
So like right, Pirates PenguinSteelers.
(20:58):
Now, I I don't know that thePirates at this point qualified
to actually be called a majorleague team anymore, but we're
like that's a whole separatepodcast.
When someone thinks Pittsburgh,they think black and gold,
regardless, right?
It's become the identity of thewhole city.
And I don't see that in a lot ofother major markets.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Yeah, this is a perfect billboard advertisement
for consistency in brandcommunication.
How are you consistentlydeploying this across multiple
channels?
Like, yeah, okay, on socialmedia, yes, but what about out
of home and sending mail anddonor asks?
And what happens when yourvolunteers hit the ground?
(21:41):
Like, are there t-shirts thatcolor?
So, like, how are you activatingyour brand across all these
different touch points withinyour organization as you execute
your mission?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
I think that's a good call out though, because I
think unfortunately a nonprofit,we tend to live pretty siloed.
Across the board, right?
So somebody who is maybe incharge of fundraising or in
charge of social media orwhatever may not be the same
(22:14):
person who's getting thevolunteer t-shirts.
So this really has to, I thinkthis is a great call out that
the brand is not just for themarketing department, right?
It really has to be a bought-inby the whole organization piece.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Yes.
Uh, I think this is something Iwas having a conversation with
someone else about the otherday.
Too often people get hung up onthe idea that your brand is your
logo.
That is not what a brand is.
Your brand is effectively whatother people say about you when
(22:53):
you're not in the room.
It's like the perception andyour reputation.
And the logo is just the markthat they identify you by.
It's important.
I'm not gonna say that it thatit doesn't matter, but it's more
important that you'recultivating a good perception
and a consistent reputation thatpeople can attach to that logo.
(23:17):
And I think that comes to whatyou're saying about branding
living in marketing only, orliving in silos.
It's like, no, that's we need tohave a zoomed out perspective on
what brand is, and that this isintegral to how we conduct
ourselves as an organization.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Okay, so to that end, I know we have a lot of
executive directors who listento the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
So let's talk to them specifically.
If they're listening, going,ooh, you know, I'm not sure that
we have that big picture view ofthe brand, right?
It is maybe something that livedin the marketing department or
it has just been about ourwebsite or our logo.
What's the what's the firstplace to start to get people
(24:08):
thinking that way?
How do we help drive that changeas leaders?
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
I am a big advocate of brand strategy, uh, which is
basically what is your processof how you're going to cultivate
that brand.
And I think that is a good wayto get high level because the
core elements of that are likewhat is your mission and
(24:35):
articulating that.
Like if you achieve yourmission, what is your vision of
that outcome?
So that would be mission,mission and vision.
And then I think values are asuper important part of brand
strategy that end up tricklingdown in organizations where you
(24:56):
could think of those as how arewe going to conduct ourselves
internally and externally, andwhat are the standards that
we're going to hold ourselves toas we do business and serve the
communities that we're serving.
I think that's the best way tostart, in my opinion, to connect
it to the rest of theorganization, because you're
(25:18):
effectively creating a frameworkof expectations for that should
permeate across everything thatyou do.
Where you go from there kind ofstarts coming to what we were
talking about before with howare you presenting yourself?
How are you activating yourbrand across channels?
How are you speaking to youraudience?
(25:39):
Who are you speaking to?
So it can get to be a lot and itcan get to be overwhelming.
For the top-level thing,clarifying mission, vision,
values is a great place tostart.
That is also something that youcan do yourself.
Um could bring in an expert, butthis is something that you could
(26:04):
do by yourself because no oneknows your organization or
mission as well as you do.
unknown (26:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
So speaking of the experts, tell us a little bit
about the work that you guys doat Share.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, uh at Share, we help small to medium-sized
nonprofits do digital marketingand fundraising and branding.
So we, you know, we are strivingto equip these people with the
tools and processes that theyneed for that next leg of
(26:40):
growth.
We help you grow yourfundraising so that you can grow
your impact.
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
That's great.
I love it.
Trevin, there is a question thatI've been asking everybody as we
close out this episode, but I'vebeen asking it as a closer off
season, understanding that thishas been kind of a crazy year
for a lot of nonprofits and justkind of in the world in general.
What's your one piece of adviceor wisdom or encouragement to
nonprofit leaders in thisseason?
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
You can do it.
Um, I think we all so often arein a series of like self-doubt
moments where you're like, oh,am I cooked for this?
Oh, am I can I do this?
Is this my skill set?
Am I good at this?
Uh the answer is yes.
(27:28):
You can.
You are.
And don't pay so much attentionto the way that other people are
doing things.
Figure out what works for youand what you can execute on and
do that because that's going tobe the thing that you can do
most confidently and mostconsistently.
And at the end of the day,that's what's going to last over
(27:51):
the long term and let you stickaround continuing to execute
your mission.
SPEAKER_02 (27:58):
That's so good.
Trevin, thank you.
This has been fantastic, and Ithink giving people some really
practical things to think about,but also steps to take to have a
better brand so that they arenot a flyer thumbtack to the
internet.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, my guest today has beenTrevin Streen, who is the
co-founder and creative directorat Share.
My name is Megan Speer, and thisis the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast, and we'll see you nexttime.
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